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	<title>Comments on: Kiwis should be free-riders &#8211; NZIER</title>
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	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Burning the Mona Lisa to cook dinner &#171; Recycling Locations</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168919</link>
		<dc:creator>Burning the Mona Lisa to cook dinner &#171; Recycling Locations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168919</guid>
		<description>[...] criticised the failure to connect the dots (as does The Standard): first, between climate change obligations and actually reducing emissions: It is nonsense to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] criticised the failure to connect the dots (as does The Standard): first, between climate change obligations and actually reducing emissions: It is nonsense to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quentin</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168869</link>
		<dc:creator>Quentin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168869</guid>
		<description>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/11/03/burning-the-mona-lisa-to-cook-dinner/
Well known conservative commentator Thomas Friedman contends that destroying our biodiversity to fuel unregulated economic growth is like burning the Mona Lisa to cook dinner.... The NZIER report and more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/11/03/burning-the-mona-lisa-to-cook-dinner/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/11/03/burning-the-mona-lisa-to-cook-dinner/</a><br />
Well known conservative commentator Thomas Friedman contends that destroying our biodiversity to fuel unregulated economic growth is like burning the Mona Lisa to cook dinner&#8230;. The NZIER report and more.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Beeblebrox</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168817</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Beeblebrox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168817</guid>
		<description>I think what they are saying is that because lazy investors can&#039;t make easy profits from property or share speculation anymore they need to find other ways of maintaining their wealth and influence.

Free pillage to our above and below ground resources is whats left.

Of course they could work hard, encourage scientific endeavour and education and new technology produce value added products in a way that doesn&#039;t denigrate our natural capital, but that would be too hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what they are saying is that because lazy investors can&#8217;t make easy profits from property or share speculation anymore they need to find other ways of maintaining their wealth and influence.</p>
<p>Free pillage to our above and below ground resources is whats left.</p>
<p>Of course they could work hard, encourage scientific endeavour and education and new technology produce value added products in a way that doesn&#8217;t denigrate our natural capital, but that would be too hard.</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168808</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168808</guid>
		<description>Well spotted, I cant quite get my head around the NZIER language, the concepts are very contradictory. basically it says the current economic crisis requires that they can lay their hands on any resources as fast as possible to rip shit and bust because todays crisis is the most important.....f***wits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spotted, I cant quite get my head around the NZIER language, the concepts are very contradictory. basically it says the current economic crisis requires that they can lay their hands on any resources as fast as possible to rip shit and bust because todays crisis is the most important&#8230;..f***wits.</p>
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		<title>By: Eoipso</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168796</link>
		<dc:creator>Eoipso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168796</guid>
		<description>On page 6 of the NZIER Report, a definition of &quot;Sustainable Development&quot; is referenced to a UN Report &quot;World Commission on Environment and Development in 1987&quot;.
I can&#039;t believe they are talking about the same thing when you look at both reports conclusions.

Conclusion of UN Report &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.un-documents.net/ocf-02.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A/42/427. Our Common Future: Report of the World Commission on Environment and Development&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;In its broadest sense, the strategy for sustainable development aims to promote harmony among human brings and between humanity and nature. In the specific context of the development and environment crises of the 1980s, which current national and international political and economic institutions have not and perhaps cannot overcome, the pursuit of sustainable development requires:
a political system that secures effective citizen participation in decision making.
an economic system that is able to generate surpluses and technical knowledge on a self-reliant and sustained basis
a social system that provides for solutions for the tensions arising from disharmonious development.
a production system that respects the obligation to preserve the ecological base for development,
a technological system that can search continuously for new solutions,
an international system that fosters sustainable patterns of trade and finance, and
an administrative system that is flexible and has the capacity for self-correction.

These requirements are more in the nature of goals that should underlie national and international action on development. What matters is the sincerity with which these goals are pursued and the effectiveness with which departures from them are corrected.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Summary of &lt;a href=&quot;http://nzier.org.nz/includes/download.aspx?ID=105519&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NZIER viewpoint: Working paper 2009/7: Sustainable development: Have we got our priorities right?&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;The current global economic turmoil provides a reason to stop and take stock of the direction of sustainable development, but not for abandoning the idea. To ride out the turmoil, New Zealand needs to be able to make the most of all its resources, including those obtained from the natural environment. This means freeing up the use of resources from delays and inconsistencies that apply to current allocation mechanisms, but also giving due weight to the protection of environmental attributes against irreversible changes that impose costs on the future which, stripped back to basics, is what sustainable development is all about.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On page 6 of the NZIER Report, a definition of &#8220;Sustainable Development&#8221; is referenced to a UN Report &#8220;World Commission on Environment and Development in 1987&#8243;.<br />
I can&#8217;t believe they are talking about the same thing when you look at both reports conclusions.</p>
<p>Conclusion of UN Report <a href="http://www.un-documents.net/ocf-02.htm" rel="nofollow">A/42/427. Our Common Future: Report of the World Commission on Environment and Development</a></p>
<blockquote><p>In its broadest sense, the strategy for sustainable development aims to promote harmony among human brings and between humanity and nature. In the specific context of the development and environment crises of the 1980s, which current national and international political and economic institutions have not and perhaps cannot overcome, the pursuit of sustainable development requires:<br />
a political system that secures effective citizen participation in decision making.<br />
an economic system that is able to generate surpluses and technical knowledge on a self-reliant and sustained basis<br />
a social system that provides for solutions for the tensions arising from disharmonious development.<br />
a production system that respects the obligation to preserve the ecological base for development,<br />
a technological system that can search continuously for new solutions,<br />
an international system that fosters sustainable patterns of trade and finance, and<br />
an administrative system that is flexible and has the capacity for self-correction.</p>
<p>These requirements are more in the nature of goals that should underlie national and international action on development. What matters is the sincerity with which these goals are pursued and the effectiveness with which departures from them are corrected.</p></blockquote>
<p>Summary of <a href="http://nzier.org.nz/includes/download.aspx?ID=105519" rel="nofollow">NZIER viewpoint: Working paper 2009/7: Sustainable development: Have we got our priorities right?</a></p>
<blockquote><p>The current global economic turmoil provides a reason to stop and take stock of the direction of sustainable development, but not for abandoning the idea. To ride out the turmoil, New Zealand needs to be able to make the most of all its resources, including those obtained from the natural environment. This means freeing up the use of resources from delays and inconsistencies that apply to current allocation mechanisms, but also giving due weight to the protection of environmental attributes against irreversible changes that impose costs on the future which, stripped back to basics, is what sustainable development is all about.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: BLiP</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168794</link>
		<dc:creator>BLiP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168794</guid>
		<description>Given his allergy to bad news and associating his brand with the slightest aspect of fail, its not wonder then that John Key is too &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0911/S00018.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ashamed &lt;/a&gt;to show his face at Copenhagen. So much for his 100% Pure New Zealand master brand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given his allergy to bad news and associating his brand with the slightest aspect of fail, its not wonder then that John Key is too <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0911/S00018.htm" rel="nofollow">ashamed </a>to show his face at Copenhagen. So much for his 100% Pure New Zealand master brand.</p>
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		<title>By: So Bored</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168790</link>
		<dc:creator>So Bored</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168790</guid>
		<description>Pleased to see the comments above, our collective distrust of the establishment on issues of environment and economy. The track record indicates very strongly that groups who have material interests are incapable of changing behavoir except under coercion, changing their thinking is in my judgement not even worth attempting. 

Fortunately there is a possible alternative action, we do have examples of people acting against the flow, actually going and doing things to save species and environment. My local heros grow plants for riparian zones and clean up streams. If everybody who is concerned changes just a few materialist habits towards sustainability and spreads the word we can reach a critical mass and bring down the materialist system from within. Think global, act local.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pleased to see the comments above, our collective distrust of the establishment on issues of environment and economy. The track record indicates very strongly that groups who have material interests are incapable of changing behavoir except under coercion, changing their thinking is in my judgement not even worth attempting. </p>
<p>Fortunately there is a possible alternative action, we do have examples of people acting against the flow, actually going and doing things to save species and environment. My local heros grow plants for riparian zones and clean up streams. If everybody who is concerned changes just a few materialist habits towards sustainability and spreads the word we can reach a critical mass and bring down the materialist system from within. Think global, act local.</p>
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		<title>By: the sprout</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168787</link>
		<dc:creator>the sprout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168787</guid>
		<description>&#039;Fast Follower&#039; is just a term that&#039;s been trotted out out before on this topic to say, let&#039;s not take the lead on anything, let&#039;s see what others do first then do what they do. and let&#039;s only do anything when it follows big business interests.

i think the &#039;fast&#039; part is there to reduce the lameness factor of what it actually is, which is really just &#039;follower&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Fast Follower&#8217; is just a term that&#8217;s been trotted out out before on this topic to say, let&#8217;s not take the lead on anything, let&#8217;s see what others do first then do what they do. and let&#8217;s only do anything when it follows big business interests.</p>
<p>i think the &#8216;fast&#8217; part is there to reduce the lameness factor of what it actually is, which is really just &#8216;follower&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal's bookie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168785</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal's bookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168785</guid>
		<description>Yep. 

Might start calling them &#039;Overheads&#039;, on account of how they project so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. </p>
<p>Might start calling them &#8216;Overheads&#8217;, on account of how they project so well.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Beeblebrox</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168783</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Beeblebrox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168783</guid>
		<description>No environment, no economy. There&#039;s good reasons why Easter Island or haiti are not economic powerhouses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No environment, no economy. There&#8217;s good reasons why Easter Island or haiti are not economic powerhouses.</p>
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		<title>By: snoozer</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168779</link>
		<dc:creator>snoozer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168779</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sick of the right saying Kiwis shouldn&#039;t do our part. What do they think we are, a nation of freeloaders?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sick of the right saying Kiwis shouldn&#8217;t do our part. What do they think we are, a nation of freeloaders?</p>
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		<title>By: randal</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168774</link>
		<dc:creator>randal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168774</guid>
		<description>Who is the nzier and why does anybody listen to them?
We have entered an age where nobody is allowed to question the credentials of anybody else and only the message when the crux of the matter is who are these people who want to deny the truth.
It seems to me they are the same people who denied the emperor was nude and the same people who beleived that knut could turn the tide
In the event they are just another interest group stringing the rest of us along so they can gather a client list from the &quot;other side&quot;  and accumulate enough money to buy a hardly davidson or a pied a terre in the south of france.
i.e. just another pack of venal monkeys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is the nzier and why does anybody listen to them?<br />
We have entered an age where nobody is allowed to question the credentials of anybody else and only the message when the crux of the matter is who are these people who want to deny the truth.<br />
It seems to me they are the same people who denied the emperor was nude and the same people who beleived that knut could turn the tide<br />
In the event they are just another interest group stringing the rest of us along so they can gather a client list from the &#8220;other side&#8221;  and accumulate enough money to buy a hardly davidson or a pied a terre in the south of france.<br />
i.e. just another pack of venal monkeys.</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168773</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168773</guid>
		<description>sprout - What do you mean by Fast Follower?   Are you concerned we have a tendency to move fast to initiate new policies before others to prove how good we are so we get patted on the head and allowed to play with the big boys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sprout &#8211; What do you mean by Fast Follower?   Are you concerned we have a tendency to move fast to initiate new policies before others to prove how good we are so we get patted on the head and allowed to play with the big boys?</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168770</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168770</guid>
		<description>The NZ Institute of Economic Research has a big business bias doesn&#039;t it?  I heard Guy Salmond of Ecologic make comment and this guy&#039;s comments and that organisation are worth monitoring.  I have the impression that he fits the description of idealistic pragmatist which guides the thinker to the best practical action. 
http://www.ecologic.org.nz/
For those who want environmental information but consider the Greens a bit dubiously try Ecologic amongst your background info group.  Has anyone else been following this org?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NZ Institute of Economic Research has a big business bias doesn&#8217;t it?  I heard Guy Salmond of Ecologic make comment and this guy&#8217;s comments and that organisation are worth monitoring.  I have the impression that he fits the description of idealistic pragmatist which guides the thinker to the best practical action.<br />
<a href="http://www.ecologic.org.nz/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecologic.org.nz/</a><br />
For those who want environmental information but consider the Greens a bit dubiously try Ecologic amongst your background info group.  Has anyone else been following this org?</p>
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		<title>By: the sprout</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/kiwis-should-be-free-riders-nzier/comment-page-1/#comment-168767</link>
		<dc:creator>the sprout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=24090#comment-168767</guid>
		<description>more of that &quot;Fast Follower&quot; lameness.
Wow! what a grand thing to aspire to, being a Fast Follower. makes me feel all proud inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>more of that &#8220;Fast Follower&#8221; lameness.<br />
Wow! what a grand thing to aspire to, being a Fast Follower. makes me feel all proud inside.</p>
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