Written By: - Date published: 12:10 pm, May 6th, 2008 - 75 comments
Categories: crime -
Tags: crime, national, sensible sentencing
No doubt, there will be hollow cries of outrage from Simon Power and Sensible Sentencing over Bailey Kurariki being transferred from jail to home detention for the last months of his sentence.
Kurariki has been in jail for five years, since he was 12. His sentence expires in six months. By moving Kurariki to a community-based sentence, the authorities are allowing a period of reintegration to get underway while still having the legal power to place limits on Kurariki’s behaviour and freedom.
Some seem to think it’s sensible to keep a young man who has been in jail during his formative years locked up as long as possible, then chuck him out on the street with no period of controlled reintegration. That might satisfy some primal urge for revenge over what Kurariki did but it is stupid and short-sighted. Kurariki is going to be out in the community either way, the important things are that he does not re-offend and can start to make a positive contribution to society. If Kurariki is locked up until the end and then released without any controlled reintegration he will find himself in a situation where re-offending is very likely, controlled reintegration will lessen the risk of that.
The likes of National and Sensible Sentencing appeal to our urge for revenge but they do us a great disservice and increase the likelihood of future offending when they oppose community sentences and advocate releasing prisoners straight from jail back into the community.
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killinginthenameof:
Since I have actually lived in Tempe and not just read something in a book, I think I have the right to comment.
The area I was in was safe, there was no trouble makers, thanks to the tough approach, it had nothing to do with the media.
Wouldn’t it be great in a NewZealand city to go out at night to a nice restaurant/bar and not have the scum walking about disturbing the peace.
Killing
And of course you have indisputable proof that Joe’s policies are not working?
They could start by arresting and imprisoning each and every rugby league fan, that would bring the crime rate right down.
Matthew,
Do you think that incarceration is ineffective in reducing crime? I agree that funding of early childhood services are particularly important. I also think there needs to be more awareness of the risks of drinking alcohol during pregnancy & during breast feeding. But in terms of dealing with adult offenders, incarceration does have a significant impact on crime rates:
“Crime fell sharply and unexpectedly in the 1990s. Four factors appear to explain the drop in crime: increased incarceration, more police, the decline of crack and legalized abortion. Other factors often cited as important factors driving the decline do not appear to have played an important role: the strong economy, changing demographics, innovative policing strategies, gun laws and increased use of capital punishment.” http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf
It easy to cut the cost of prisons, take away the little extras, like televisions/dvds/playstations/tennis courts/coke machines, and have a REAL prison.
Just a cell, a bed, a toliet and three meals a day.
You can stick more than one prisoner to a cell.
But Im guessing Labour thinks child rapists and murderers deserve more?
BB
Can we leave the Mad Butcher out on home detention ?
big bruv:
hahaha always with the league jokes, huh!
Go the Warriors!
Ben R
Don’t confuse Matthew with facts, he has already made up his mind.
higher
ONLY HIM!
Brett Dale,
Because Kurariki has served his sentence, hasn’t committed any offences worthy of further prosecution while in prison, and since he is going to be released, I support doing it in an appropriate and supportive fashion.
As you probably know, repentance isn’t a condition of release – perhaps you’d wish it to be so but it’s something impossible to gauge accurately – so I don’t see how it is relevant, apart from when judging parole releases. Given this is taken into account, I don’t see the problem – and I’m doubtful you have a better idea of his state of mind and activities than the parole board.
You also seem to have very little knowledge of the actual incident, which compounds my doubts as to your ability to fairly judge the current situation, and his behaviour during the intervening five years.
It’s a backward lynch mob mentality that I find abhorrent, as you asked.
I also ask what your ‘no help or sympathy’ attitude would achieve. Do you think all rehabilitation is futile? because it follows that we should execute all violent criminals, or incarcerate them permanently – is that what you’re advocating here (along with bruv, I’m sorry to say)?
Matthew Pilott:
This is a person who couldn’t care less about his crime, judging by his behavior over the past five years there is no remorse.
As for parole boards, well look over the years all the mistakes they have made.
When Bailey commits his next crime, those on the left will scream “Prison doesn’t work” has it ever occurred to you, that Bailey is a bad person, and its not society’s fault.
But then again, that would take away, personal responsibility.
By the way, I give sympathy and support to the victims of crime, not the other way around.
Ben R – we do incarcerate criminals; I am not against incarceration. I am against knee-jerk lynch mob idiots (not you…) demanding longer sentences without a thought as to the remifications, or whether they would be an effective deterrent. I’ve read freakonomics – go abortions huh?
bruv, I think it was fair enough for me to assume the majority of new Zealanders would not want to pour billions (got the spelling right this time) into prisons. Do you disagree with that point, whether that was what you were actually saying or not? This would clearly be the end result of your idiotic idea of cutting welfare to fund prisons – what you want to do is fund prisons by doing something that will increase the crime rate.
This would be a vicious circle until something breaks – we would run out of welfare to cut. You also advocated locking up people charged with manslaughter for life. Presumably other equivalent crimes, and those more serious, would have the same sentence. This would further compound the problem of trying to fund prisons.
I’m happy to change my mind if something is presented to me that shows what I believe is wrong. A monkey with a typewriter might have a better chance than you though bruv, but try and prove me wrong there too!
Brett Dale
May 6, 2008 at 2:34 pm
killinginthenameof:
Since I have actually lived in Tempe and not just read something in a book, I think I have the right to comment.
The area I was in was safe, there was no trouble makers, thanks to the tough approach, it had nothing to do with the media.
Wouldn’t it be great in a NewZealand city to go out at night to a nice restaurant/bar and not have the scum walking about disturbing the peace.
I have no problems going out at night in wellington (sadly not the same in chch though)
Yes the eveidence out there shows that his policys dont work, ill try find something later on when i have some spare time.
Go watch his documentry when asked about the statistics ‘I dont really believe in statistics’ or something along those lines, surely if his policies worked he woudl be shouting from the roof tops?
‘fear of crime down, but actual level of crime up’ doesnt have quite the same ring to it i guess, kinda like yelling ‘im a liar and a con artist’ from the roof…
Matthew:
You know my stance on violent crime, what is yours?
What sort of sentence would you think is right, for child rapists/murderers/rapists, you know the violent of the most violent.
What do you think should also be avaiable in prison for these guys?
So I ask again Brett – what would you do? Execute him or lock him up for life? Would that be a mandatory minimum sentence for all those convicted of manslaughter or worse?
The parole board deals with thousands of cases every year – while I sympathise with those affected when they get it wrong, the reoffending rates of parolees are far lower then those who aren’t paroled, so I support parole.
“So I ask again Brett – what would you do? Execute him or lock him up for life?” you asked.
I say, execute the bastard.
Matthew
When ever I am abused by a pinko I know I am on the right track.
Your mindset (and that of all pinko’s) just cannot concede that there might be another way and another way is desperately needed, the left wing way of doing things sure as hell is not working.
Sooner or later you will have to agree that paying people to do nothing just ensures that we produce generation after generation of criminals (I know that deep down you do not give a toss as these fools vote Labour to a man and that is why you defend them) but the cost to society cannot be allowed to continue.
You and Labour have had your time and you have failed miserably,get out of the way and let somebody else fix the problem that you created.
Considering for the last five years he has joked and showed off about his crime, and has also committed violent acts, I wouldnt have paroled him.
The prison Pastor said he has found God, so I would say, okay if he is really a changed man, give him another couples of years in prison and see what his behavior is like, not just six months.
Then release him to home detention for one year, then let him out with very strict parole conditions, which if he breaks even once hes back in prison.
Send him to work, in which a percentage of money will go to his victims family and this will happen for the rest of his life.
What would you do?
Brett, I’m all for nice long sentences, but he already got his (and served most of it). You can’t increase it now.
Five years is long to you?
Off topic
I see dear leader has been caught telling lies again
http://nominister.blogspot.com/2008/05/has-helen-been-lying-again.html
[the stories going around Wellington tend to back Clark's comments. SP]
It wasn’t the present government that caused the problem (which problem?) but previous RWNJ (such as Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Ruth Richardson etc) in positions of power that they really couldn’t handle. The present government is slowly fixing the problems that these idiots created.
Let National in and the problems will come back and get worse.
Brett – I’m not an expert, just have fairly strong views. There are aspects to our prision system I don’t like. I understand that fewer than 20% of prisoners are working in prison – I’d have thought that being in gainful employment would be a start.
A prison shouldn’t be a holiday camp, but then as it is for rehabilitation, not retribution, it should not be a gulag either. To ask ‘what should be available in prison’ – are you asking ‘how bad should we make prisons to encourage criminals to avoid them?’ Short answer – I doubt it makes a difference when we’re talking of how ‘comfortable’ people should be in prisons.
If you’re referring to non-material things in prison – there should be a lot – classes, opportunities for employment and so on.
I am against mandatory minimum sentences, or the arbitrary pegging of a sentence for X crime at Y years imprisonment – leave it to the judiciary. In saying that, I conceed crimes often seem to receive short sentences, but this is an objective assessment on my behalf, and not one I’d inflict upon others without some serious research into the case.
bruv – when someone fails to respond to a single point I make, I know they’re beat, no matter what bluster they come up with in the meantime. I didn’t abuse you y’know, I claimed that your idea was idiotic – you’re free to have another shot at explaining it as you were previously, and chose not to.
Prove to me that abolition of the welfare state will solve our crime problem, and I’ll be happy to listen.
As for the monkey comment – it’s the honest truth. Your arguing style consists of vauge, inflamatory statements, an abject lack of evidence or supporting facts (referenced or no) and then bluster when called up on it, with a fair bit of diversion and topic-changing to boot. Given this approach would have a zero chance of making me change my mind, a monkey with a typewriter would have a better chance, as what said monkey writes is (as the theory goes) random, and the chance would be greater than zero.
I imagine the same applies to your good self and my comments. Please forgive my honesty in making it so blunt though, if you’re less than impressed by the analogy.
Brett, my point is you can’t increase the sentence after sentencing. If there was a problem with the sentence (and I do not have enough information to assess whether there was) you can’t fix it at the end. You have to appeal the sentence.
zANavAShi – thanks for the supporting info a couple of hours ago. I’ve recently heard the spokeman for the Prison Fellowship say similar things.
Brett seems to want spartan prison conditions and longer sentences. What sort of released prisoners will that produce? I can’t imagine them being better than what we get now.
By “support”, I mean lets support the organisations that are working with soon-to-be-released and recently-released prisoners to help them help the guys that genuinely want to do better next time round. It’s hard work, but will produce some better people than we would get by locking a 12 yr old up for 20 years.
Matthew
So when abuse does not work you move on to attacking the messenger?
Shame.
BB, Your childish habit of calling Helen Clark “dear leader” is an example of attacking the messenger.
Shame.
rob
“Cancerous” “Corrosive” “Loathsome people”
Are these all examples of childish habits?, dear leader started the personal attacks yet she is the first to bleat when the guns are turned on her, have you forgotten the statement (and another of her lies) “I don’t muck rake”
Billy
The clear and obvious point you make is totally lost on the likes of Brett, who would like to have judicial decisions revoked by a Herald Digipoll (but only for the really exciting, high profile cases).
Bruv, as just mentioned, it wasn’t abuse; I see you’ve given up even reading what I write.
It also wasn’t ‘attacking the messenger’ in my subsequent post – it was an honest appraisal of the effectiveness of your arguments, not an attack in the slightest. To prove this, you promplty changed teh topic with your very next post – I couldn’t have scripted that better! Cheers *ironic salute*
The best way to refute these claims would be to make an intelligent and well thought-through argument to counter the claims I have made regarding prisons, welfare, the uselessness of knee-jerk demands for ‘tougher sentencing’, rehabilitation prospects and the viability of the parole system. You have chosen to do none of the above, thus validating my description of your modus operandi. Ranting about Pinko’s (sic) does not constitute a well thought-out argument, for the record.
the politicisation of the justice department shows how inadequate the whole system has become. Geoffrey Palmer made a freudian slip recently when he referred to it as the ‘justice industry’ and until there is a proper understanding of the psychological determinants of crime and the delvierance of the system to aparatchicks then it will continue to be the playground of uneducated wannabees and leeches dependent on the system for their remuneration and their jollies
“Corrections researchers at the Arizona State University: Arpaio spent over
$10,000 to have Arizona State University study recidivism in his jail
system. The 1998 ASU study tracked 4,800 released Maricopa County inmates
and showed no evidence that harsh treatment reduced recidivism. Arpaio
discounted this study as false and continues to claim that his jail program
has reduced crime in the valley.
The Editor of the Phoenix New Times, a newspaper which has been maintaining
a close surveillance over Joe Arpaio since he came to office, and has
documented his excesses, and abuse of authority.
Has the crime rate reduced as a result of all this activity? Not at all. As
of December 2006, Phoenix is strapped with a crime rate that, according to
FBI statistics, now tops that of New York, Los Angeles or Baltimore.
”
I’ll try track down the study, unless of course your just going to call it ivory tower pinko communist propaganda then i might as well not bother, what say you?
So, if working towards rehabilitation is the goal and pre- and post-release support is necessary (neither of which I would argue with, by the way), why are organisations like PARS finding it so hard to get funding from the government?
Lyndon said: “Odd, then, that the SST wants parole abolished.”
Not odd. I was referring to their response to this particular case, not their overall manifesto. At present, there is a parole system, so their submissions would have proceeded on that basis even if they don’t agree with the system itself (or, for that matter, the original sentence imposed).
Rob:
“BB, Your childish habit of calling Helen Clark “dear leader’ is an example of attacking the messenger.”
Sorry, but if she’s going to dish it out then she and you (as a supporter) had better be prepared to take it.
“Shame.”
On you. For being hypocritical.