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Labour and the Greens

Written By: - Date published: 1:42 pm, April 11th, 2014 - 162 comments
Categories: greens, labour, MMP - Tags:

So the Greens want a pre-election coalition deal and a formal working together for election.

And Labour don’t.

That doesn’t mean that there’s a big split between the 2 parties, any more than different policies on Deep Sea Drilling do – if they agreed on everything, they’s be the same party.

It’s simple – there’s advantages for the Greens, so they want the pre-election deal.  There’s not for Labour, so they don’t. It needs them both to agree, so it won’t happen, and the Greens will live with it – it was just a proposal.

They and the public all know that after the election Labour and the Greens will have to come to an agreement to govern. If there are Labour ministers, there will be Green ministers. Nothing promised from either side beforehand, as that weakens the negotiating hand – but it will happen. What gets negotiated will depend on what numbers each side gets.

Advantage for Greens: First in, best dressed; guaranteed alliance, ministries, equal partnership.

Disadvantage for Labour: Added complexity in coalition negotiations (trying to fit others into a pre-ordained agreement); lose ‘big party’ status (the 2 are seen as equal if it’s described as “Labour-Greens” instead of “Labour-led”); some loss of interest from centrist voters.

So Guyon on Morning Report this morning, desperately trying to get Cunliffe to say something to put the Greens nose out of joint – let it rest. Everybody knows the position, let’s move on.

And to all those who think coalition agreements should be done beforehand so voters know what they’re getting? It’s just not practical.

You say who you’re likely to work with, who you can work with, and who you can’t.  But until you know the hand voters give you, there’s no way you can say what the agreement will be. You don’t know what other sides will insist on, how much of your manifesto you can negotiate in.  Even a percentage point or 2 can change your hand drastically if it tips the balance. And how many ministries you need to trade for how many policies…

Labour and the Greens have said they’re likely to work together – they’ll need to, and their policies are very similar.  Labour’s said they can work with NZ First, Mana and even the Maori Party; they can’t work with National or Act if it still exists.  That’s all they can give you pre-election, and we shouldn’t expect any more.

162 comments on “Labour and the Greens”

  1. Chooky 1

    thanks …very succinct…and it needs to be broadcast repeatedly to the public by both Labour and the Greens

  2. Wyndham, George 2

    Two totally different Parties, Bunji. Their projectories are entirely different. Perhaps pointing in the same direction but at very different angles and speeds.

    Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.
    The Greens are a group of comfortable middle class pakeha who would rather love everything to change a little bit in a somewhat better direction.

    Cunliffe job and the job of every Labour member is to maximise the vote for Labour. He made the right call. Keep it up David.

    • weka 2.1

      Meteria Turei… “comfortable middle class pakeha” :roll:

      “Cunliffe job and the job of every Labour member is to maximise the vote for Labour”

      I agree. So why isn’t he doing that?

      • Ant 2.1.1

        Cunliffe is probably busy having to respond to the politicking around the Green’s bad faith proposal and consequent fallout from them leaking the response.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1

          I doubt it would have been the Greens that leaked it. Plenty of precedents of leaks in the Labour caucus though.

          • Ant 2.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, it just happens that everything from the form of the proposal (that Labour obviously wouldn’t buy in a million years) to the leaking of the rejection completely benefits the Greens to the detriment of Labour.

            But of course, nothing to do with the Green Party.

            • felix 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Plenty of precedent of stupid short-sighted own-goal leaks in the Labour caucus too.

          • Stephen J 2.1.1.1.2

            At least one Green MP I know was happily talking about it at a party I attended recently. They’re humans not saints.

        • weka 2.1.1.2

          “Cunliffe is probably busy having to respond to the politicking around the Green’s bad faith proposal and consequent fallout from them leaking the response.”

          Doesn’t explain his behaviour for the previous 6 months though. Why is he still not making the move that established Labour as a left wing party again, and bring back the lost non-votes?

          • Clemgeopin 2.1.1.2.1

            It is clear that Labour is not a right wing party based on the debates in parliament, the statements from its leader and MPs, and looking at the POLICIES announced so far.

            In reality Labour policies encompass a broad spectrum from the so called
            Far Left ( e.g, buy back assets) to Left (e.g, control power prices) to Centre (e.g, tax regime)

            By the time of the next election in Sept, after all the policies are announced and discussed in the election campaign proper, I think lots of the non voters from both left and right will drift in back towards Labour.

            • The Al1en 2.1.1.2.1.1

              “By the time of the next election in Sept, after all the policies are announced and discussed in the election campaign proper, I think lots of the non voters from both left and right will drift in back towards Labour”

              That’s just not going to happen. Labour led by Cunliffe is a magnitude better than that ‘led’ by Shearer, yet here we are months out from an election and no traction, no momentum and clearly no headway being made to catch up and overtake the national party and it’s crony coalition partners.
              Only way Labour could ever win back another 10% of the party vote is to get rid of the old guard that have failed since 08, grow a pair and commit to policy that’s radical, equitable and sustainable. This sadly, they are unable or unwilling to do.

              I don’t really blame DC, he’s hamstrung by the failed and doesn’t own the parliamentary caucus, and it shows. I think what he needs to remember is that he won’t get another chance post election defeat, so if he’s got the gonads, now is the time to give them an airing. Again, I don’t think this will happen.

              Me, I was a life long Labour voter (here and GB), yet now I have no qualms in voting Green.
              I don’t think of it as deserting or abandoning my past or letting go of tradition, more like deciding to party vote to get the best left government available, and the more than do likewise, the louder the left voice being heard.
              The dinosaurs can’t be trusted, and to borrow a tory slogan – Labour isn’t working.

              • anker

                I think from the moment he took the reigns DC has been under attack by the msm. Some on the DB have talk about the smear campaign against Dot Com, but I think it has been just as bad for DC, (remember that crazy story about him helping his friend buy a house as if it was all very suss).

                I don’t know what’s going on in the Labour Caucus, but if anyone doubts DC wants to take Labour to the left, I have two things to say, policies to date (excepting super) and Matt McCarten. My impression is that the Labour Caucus appear to be firing. Jones, Robertson against Collins, even Trevor Mallard over the PGA contract being terminated. Hipkins too.

                My hunch and my hope is that National are starting to unravel and it will continue and get worse and Labour/Cunliffe, like the horse a little behind in the race is going to gain that momentum and cross the finish line.

                • Clemgeopin

                  I agree!

                  DC has not got enough media coverage and exposure yet. Often it has been for negative reasons, some legitimate, but many for unfair reasons. The so called political commentators or journalists have been quite often unkind unnecessarily without merit.

                  The treatment they mete out to Key is different and favourable.

                  The media makes or breaks politicians. But in the end, I think people will slowly see through the media tricks and bias.

                  So, even if Cunliffe’s personal rating goes even lower, one must not worry too much at this stage. It will go up by Sept by when he and the policies would have got more exposure

            • Jim Nald 2.1.1.2.1.2

              What about pushing the pension age further away? Is that Far Left, Left or Centre? Or ACT?

              • The Al1en

                Far left, centre or act, I couldn’t say, but with an ageing population it’s a common sense policy, just like means testing eligibility is.

                • Ergo Robertina

                  It’s Act policy. It is common sense to neoliberals to create a pool of older desperate workers to keep wages down, and increase inequality.

                  • anker

                    I think we have to remember who will be footing the bill for the people who retire and get a pension at 65……………..yes the younger people. The people who got student loans and were in the past charged interest when many of us got free tertiary education, the people for whom buying a house is almost an impossibility, unless they have very rich parents. The people now who have a deregulated employment market.

                    • The Al1en

                      Indeed, don’t want to create a pool of younger desperate workers overly burdened by taxes, ensuring lower take home pay, and increasing inequality.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      OK, lets fix the deregulated employment market, the education loan system, and the overpriced housing market, instead of attacking older people and forcing them into an overcrowded labour market or making them go cap in hand to seek early pensions.
                      Oh, and most of the baby boomers who got the free education and low cost first homes will not be affected by the change under the proposed timeframe anyway.
                      And you aren’t helping the young by increasing the labour pool.

                    • The Al1en

                      “attacking older people and forcing them into an overcrowded labour market or making them go cap in hand to seek early pensions”

                      25 years in the future :lol:

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      ‘Indeed, don’t want to create a pool of younger desperate workers overly burdened by taxes, ensuring lower take home pay, and increasing inequality.’

                      Wrong. There will be more jobs if the pension age stays at 65, which increases wage rates.
                      Plus, most elderly people spend all their money on goods and services helping the money go round. You assume the young stand to benefit from lower taxes because of a higher retirement age, but it is the rich who will reap any benefits through NZ’s regressive tax regime.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      ’25 years in the future….’

                      Raising the pension age is ‘common sense’ to you, but it’s not necessary to consider possible consequences and outcomes?
                      Even though you raised the spectre of a bleak future for young people in the counterfactual scenario. Odd.

                    • The Al1en

                      “Wrong. There will be more jobs if the pension age stays at 65, which increases wage rates.”

                      Surely the number of jobs is finite, the variable, using your argument, is whether they are done by the ‘young’ or 65 and 66 year olds.

                      “You assume the young stand to benefit from lower taxes because of a higher retirement age”

                      I assume that the tax burden on all workers will be greater if they have to pay for an ageing population, who live longer, who retire at 65. Not paying those increased taxes will of course be a benefit.

                      “Odd”
                      “it’s not necessary to consider possible consequences and outcomes?”

                      I don’t think raising the pension age to 67 in 25 years is as much of a drama as you are believing it to be.
                      But it doesn’t bother me, I’m a worn out manual worker with f all savings, so I’m getting my bus pass early any way by all accounts. ;)

                      Nothing wrong with looking at different outcomes, but the consequence, if left the same, will prove a costly burden on the workers of the future. It might not be a vote winner, but many here will see the need for it.

                      Ideally Id like a few green Labour governments to sort the economy out and we’ll all retire at 50 on 2/3 the average wage, so let’s cross our fingers and hope for the best.

              • Clemgeopin

                That I think is centre and being pragmatic for today’s world in terms of longevity, health conditions, better medical facilities, work necessities, aging population etc provided the option is left for people to retire at 65 if they choose it for defined legitimate reasons.

                Do remember that if there is a pension age change it will come into play many years from now, 20 or 30 years later, but will be signaled now so that people may make suitable adjustments to their future planning.

                Labour has also signaled that they would bring in compulsory Kiwi Saver which should complement the pension age change from 65 to 68 which will be introduced slowly, a few months extra each year, over time. It won;t all happen suddenly.

                What is your opinion?

      • yabby 2.1.2

        Like it or not George is right that the “comfortable, middle class voter” is the Greens voter. There is many a working class, plain living Labour voter who would rather not vote than vote Green and they’ll hoping that Labour picks up momentum on their own I am sure.
        It would have been political suicide for Labour to be on a joint ticket with the Greens

    • fambo 2.2

      “Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.”

      Labour might (and hopefully) will become that – the Greens already are that

      • Clemgeopin 2.2.1

        The Green party works with their hearts and sentiments.
        Labour party works with their head, heart and practicalities.

        • greywarbler 2.2.1.1

          Clem.
          FGS what piffle.

        • Tracey 2.2.1.2

          rubbish

          • weka 2.2.1.2.1

            kind of interesting seeing Labour supporters coming out with slurs against the GP though.

            • Tracey 2.2.1.2.1.1

              yes. they sound like national.

              what has gone on this week wont deter me from viting green. I gave them my party vote in 2011 and will do so this year.

              • srylands

                Thats OK. Lots of Green voters at 21 will be ACT voters at 41. You will probably follow suit.

                • felix

                  From my observations it usually works the other way around. Randian nonsense appeals quite strongly to the selfish teenage mentality.

                  • srylands

                    The Greens have four groups of constituents:

                    Communists, generally older

                    Environmentalist extremists (Greenpeace et al), generally older

                    The Young and Confused

                    Urban middle class prosperous people who are apolitical but think the Greens make the flowers grow.

                    • McFlock

                      Some of the old, some of the young, and some of the urban middle class? Pretty broad church.

                      ACT have two groups of constituents:
                      Three unclecousins who think they’re the future leaders of the nation, and epsom national party members who blindly follow dunnokeyo.

                    • DS

                      I think Greens come in two flavours: Old Greens (aka the Hippies), and the New Greens (aka the Liberals). The latter, which have become the dominant force over the last decade, are urban, well-educated, and comfortably off (poor people don’t vote Green – they either vote Labour or don’t vote). This New Green base is socially liberal and empathetic, but in terms of demographics, is not dissimilar to a sort of “ACT with a conscience”.

                      This isn’t to say that the Greens aren’t the good guys (Labour and Greens are both fighting the same enemy), just that the two parties don’t represent the same sort of people.

                    • felix

                      For all the stereotyping that goes on to explain the Green demographic, it just doesn’t match with what I see on the ground.

                      I guess it depends where you look, but this “middle-class urban liberal” thing is only part of the picture. It probably seems true if you’re in central Wellington.

                    • DS

                      It matches the voting patterns. Greens do well in the likes of Wellington Central, and Dunedin North: well-educated voters. They do terribly in South Auckland.

                    • felix

                      Yeah but it’s a massive leap from that to “Greens come in two flavours” et al. I know plenty of Green voters who aren’t old hippies or middle-class urban liberals.

                      Anecdata of course, but so is yours.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Yeah the pattern is pretty clear – you’ve got that 15% of Greens – double that in the youth demographic, and as they age the shift starts to show up as that surge in ACT’s 0%. Oh, wait…

                • Martin

                  speak for yourself. I’m well past 40 and still vote Green.
                  I remember one of my conservative friends tell me at 18 that I would turn by 40.
                  No chance mate.

            • felix 2.2.1.2.1.2

              Labour supporters or NZFirst supporters, weka?

          • Clemgeopin 2.2.1.2.2

            Why rubbish?

            The Green leadership did not use their HEAD properly in their IMPRACTICAL and politically damaging Labour-Green pre-election SENTIMENTAL alliance idea AND damaged Labour (and the Greens too, a little) by making it known to the media too!

            So what I sated IS not rubbish at all. Quite accurate, actually:
            The Green party works with their hearts and sentiments.
            Labour party works with their head, heart and practicalities.

            • weka 2.2.1.2.2.1

              Or maybe the GP just gave a very clear signal to voters. Here is where we all stand.

            • Tracey 2.2.1.2.2.2

              repeating your opinion doesnt make it anymore factual.

              • Clemgeopin

                Well, I have defined Greens and Labour as I see them.
                How would YOU define the two parties from your point of view?

            • Martin 2.2.1.2.2.3

              I still find this stereotypical. I have worked within the Peace Movement and encountered a diverse, effective and democratic community. It was an honour to work with them.

    • Colonial Viper 2.3

      Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.

      So…we’re back to selling the “growth” snakeoil panacea?

      Look around you. The only economic “growth” happening anywhere in the world is happening courtesy of environmental destruction, fossil fuel depletion, greenhouse gas emissions, and money printing to QE-infinity.

      Unless we find politicians who are willing to talk about achieving a steady state economy or achieving humane, civilised ‘de-growth’ we’re going to keep inviting our “leaders” to lie to us with fairytales of the happy ever after kind.

      • Chooky 2.3.1

        +100…you are sounding like a Greenie…it also means keeping our population down or at least steady in order to protect the environment and std of living

        • Mike S 2.3.1.1

          “keeping our population down”

          By “our” do you mean the west? I ask because it is the rich developed nations which have the population growth problem, the worst being the United States.

          • Populuxe1 2.3.1.1.1

            The west is actually at zero or negative population growth. One reason immigration is an issue

            • Mike S 2.3.1.1.1.1

              The US would have to be at negative population growth for a long time to curb their consumption of resources. For example the average American uses 30 times more resources than someone from India over a lifetime. So India would need a population of somewhere near 15 Billion people just to be on a par with the USA in terms of resource consumption.

              • Populuxe1

                The problem being that what CV is suggesting (but, one suspects, not following himself) is democratically unpalatible and contrary to all humanist principle.

      • Mike S 2.3.2

        “The only economic “growth” happening anywhere in the world is happening courtesy of environmental destruction, fossil fuel depletion, greenhouse gas emissions, and money printing to QE-infinity.”

        Plus natural disasters….(without which GDP growth under National at the moment would be SFA)

  3. captain hook 3

    It will all come out in the wash.
    Labour and the Greens will form the next government and in the meantime the National party who are totally bereft of any meaningful policies are spitting venom.
    Suck it up you losers.

  4. Tamati 4

    The Greens need to have sort of formal arrangement otherwise they’ll been seen as sellouts following any coalition talks. If they continue with “No bottom lines” policy up to the election, what is the point in them releasing any policies or a manifesto?

    They have effectively said they are willing to compromise anything, and are promising nothing!

    On the other hand, I can see entirely why Labour has rejected this idea. They Greens have already pledged to support a Labour government, so why do they need concede anything? The Greens are stuck in a corner, with nowhere to go. They’ll soon come to relize that MMP is great for taking principled stances, but near on impossible for them to achieve anything.

    They’ll be fucked over more than Nick Clegg was.

    • Tamati, Russel has been right when he has been interviews on this issue, bottoms lines are hollow statements unless there is the strength of votes to support them. We Greens will announce our policies (as we have been doing) and the voting public will respond in the numbers related to the support that exists for them. The more support we get, the more likely our policies will be acted on.

      Bottom lines only practically happen during negotiations when the two parties must prioritize their policies to see what is possible and what they may have to give up. Negotiating strength is dependent on the % of the vote. If the Greens got 8% then we would have to seriously think if a coalition is worthwhile because we would end up supporting a raft of policies that we just couldn’t be associated with. If we got 20% and labour got 35% then negations would be far more balanced and there is no way that Labour could completely dictate terms, it would have to be a fully function coalition. Your Nick Clegg analogy would only really apply if the Greens went into coalition with National and that is highly unlikely

      • mickysavage 4.1.1

        Agreed Dave and your comments reinforce why it is important for both parties to campaign hard, increase turnout and then negotiate after the results are known.

      • Tamati 4.1.2

        But Russel is clearly uneasy about having no bottom lines. Why would he go out of his way to propose a pre-election coalition?

        As I’ve said before, what value are policies if you are unwilling to stand up for them? If everything is negotiable, what are the Greens principles?

        I also reject the notion that negotiating strength in dependent on number of seats. Labour will be able to dictate terms unless they actually surpass Labours vote, or consider working with National. What threats can the Greens make to David Cunliffe? They’ve promised to support him regardless. If its 33% to 14% or 38% to 10% or 16% to 31% will make no difference.

        There are countless other analogies where the minor party has been fucked over by the electorate, Nick Clegg is just one example. Ask Nick McKim of the Tasmanian Greens, or Bob Brown and the Australian Federal Greens, the Free Democrats of Germany, United Future in 2005, NZ 1st in 1999 or 2008, the Alliance in 2002, …I could go on.

        • Clemgeopin 4.1.2.1

          I think what ‘negotiating’ means is that some policies will not be able to be pursued during that particular term of office.

          For example, say if the two parties, Labour and Greens are able to form a government on their own with Labour at say, 40% and Greens at 12%, obviously, more of the policies of Labour will get implemented and fewer of the Greens policies as that is the verdict from the voters. The parties could negotiate to see which are the prime policies that they would prefer to be implemented and both parties are in agreement with that.

          There can not be bottom lines especially with parties which have similar policies. Otherwise no government can function.

          Bottom lines make sense if a left party is in coalition with a right wing party.
          For example, for the Maori party it was the repeal of the foreshore and sea bed legislation. But to achieve that, the Maori party swallowed many other ratbag right wing policies of National and ACT

        • fisiani 4.1.2.2

          Correct. Labour if ever in government will give the Greens the bare minimum. The only way for the Greens to get their fair share is to get more votes than Labour. The only way to do that is to get Labour voters to change to Green.

      • Clemgeopin 4.1.3

        Yes, that is the correct situation.

        A formal alliance before the election, if at all desirable, can only be considered if the current polls suggest the two parties have pretty close proximity in party vote figures such as 20 to 30 (or 25 to 35). At the moment that is not indicated as it is around 33 Lab to 11 Greens.

        It is also possible that NZF may win around 7 to 10% and Mana.Dom around 5% This complicates pre election alliances between Labour and Greens as the alliance will favour the Greens far in excess to Labour.

        Since there is very little chance of the Greens winning an electoral seat, it would make more sense if the Green voters who constitute about 11% of voters, vote for the Labour candidates and give their party vote to the greens Greens. Greens voting for their own candidates will be a wasted vote from practical purposes.

        In the case of the Labour voters, it will be sensible for them to give both votes to Labour : Candidate and party, in order to ensure Labour has sufficient MPs in case there are some (or many) candidate electorate defeats by stronger National candidates.

        I think that if the strategy I have suggested above is not followed, it will be harder to form a Labour led left government that many of us want and we may actually end up with a National lead coalition government.

    • Tracey 4.2

      sorry, but i am struggling to follow your agument?

      what was uf, nz1, act, national and the maori party’s bottom line prior to the election in 2011?

      • Tamati 4.2.1

        It’s simple.

        -The Greens have already ruled out supporting a National government. Thus by default they have promised to support a Labour government. (Those on the crossbencher still need to pick a side for confidence in supply.)
        -They’ve also said they won’t make any pre-election commitments.
        -My question, is what the point in voting Greens if they have already committed to supporting Labour and won’t commit to any policies?
        -People voting Greens will essentially be voting on personality and ideology. They don’t really have policies, just aspirations and ideas.

        In terms of 2011 and minor parties on the right. UF and ACT had already committed to support a National government so supported Key with virtually no policy concessions. Key only engaged with Maori party to improve his own image. And NZ 1st promised to go into opposition and did!

        • Tracey 4.2.1.1

          they have committed policies they just wont be the tail that wags the dog that so many in this thread seem to be supporting.

          • Tamati 4.2.1.1.1

            No they don’t Russel Norman has said he is willing to compromise on anything. And if he is willing to compromise on anything, how can he have any principles?

            • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Because “compromise” does not mean “surrender”.

              I think the Greens have learned how to work in an MMP environment. If they compromise on mining, they won’t have to compromise on fishing. Alternatively, if they compromise on fishing, they won’t have to compromise on mining. And compromising on mining doesn’t mean opening up all national parks to strip mining, and compromising on fishing doesn’t mean removing all quotas and marine reserves.

              And declaring bottom lines simply allows the nats to use those declarations to try to drive a wedge into negotiations.

              • Tamati

                Because it’s a pretty arrogant attitude to hold against your own voters. It’s basically saying we’ll make all these promises before the election, but only stand up for some of them afterwards.

                What makes you think Labour will concede anything to the Greens anyway?

                • McFlock

                  No, it’s saying “this is what we want to do, but in the real world we’ll have to see because this is a democracy, not a dictatorship”. Non-national voters are grown up enough for that.

                  If labour don’t want to make concessions to other parties, why should those other parties give labour confidence votes – or even merely abstain? That’s why labour or the nats will need to compromise with other parties after the election.

                  • Tamati

                    The Greens have already given Labour their confidence vote. There’s no other option, they’ve painted themselves into a corner by ruling out working with National. The options for the Greens are either the scraps off David Cunliffe’s table or siting down for a glass of milk with Judith Collins.

                    Norman knows he has nothing to offer in the negotiations, hence why he was so keen on a pre-election deal.

                    • McFlock

                      Not supporting national does not equal supporting labour.

                      Like everyone else, I expect they will. But if labour go all neolib and refuse to compromise a little bit on that, then the greens should bring down the government and force either labour to go with national or a snap election.

                    • Tamati

                      Yes, unfortunately it does. The Greens effectively have choice between Labour, Labour and Labour. If they played anarchist and forced another election they would be out of Parliament for good.

                      I really don’t see a Labour/National coalition as viable. But we should really be open to it. It happens all the time in Germany. (Who we copied our electoral system off)

                    • McFlock

                      If they played anarchist and forced another election they would be out of Parliament for good.

                      Or they’d get more support from people who think that the two main parties are too similar for comfort.

                      Maybe even hit 25%.

                      The only question is whether Labour refuses to compromise and thereby forces the Greens’ bluff. Is it a bluff? Who knows…

                  • srylands

                    The problem comes when the compromises are simply not in New Zealand’s interests. For example Green agricultural policies are not capable of compromise. Rather than compromise with minor parties, New Zealand would be better served by another election, and even a third of a fourth until the voters elect a workable government.

                    This will eventually happen if we keep MMP. If we are stuck with it the best outcome would be the re-emergence of a prominent neoliberal faction in Labour so we could have a Labour-National coalition. This is my pick for 2020 if Labour loses the next 2 elections.

                    Remember both National and Labour are left parties. This is the best solution,

                    • Clemgeopin

                      Only a complete idiot, a half wit or a right wing crooked propagandist will say that National is a ‘left’ party!

                    • McFlock

                      Yes, Clemgeopin, sspylands is the voice of the <1% idiot-fuckwit vote.

                    • Martin

                      National? Leftwing?

                      next to Who?

                      Hitler? Pinochet? ACT?

                    • Martin

                      “re-emergence of a prominent neoliberal faction in Labour so we could have a Labour-National coalition.”

                      that would be the death of Labour after the last one.

  5. Puckish Rogue 5

    Labour don’t need to go with the Greens because the Greens have nowhere else to go which is why HC treated them like dirt (good on her for that) and instead courted P Dunne and W Peters

    The Greens have no one else to blame but themselves (though no doubt they’ll try)

    • Tamati 5.1

      Their problem is they have no fall back on their negotiating position. Their option is to be DC’s lap dog, or have another three years in opposition.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        Exactly, does anyone think they’d go with National? So Labour can keep them in the cold while negotiating with WinstonFirst knowing that the Greens have no choice but to take whatever Labour give them

        • Tamati 5.1.1.1

          They could offer them associate minister of dog catching and they’d probably take it.

      • Clemgeopin 5.1.2

        Do not underestimate or demean Labour or Mt Cunliffe. They have enough sense and values to support Greens with some or many of their policies, not as their ‘lap dog’ but as good left wing friends and partners.

  6. Lanthanide 6

    “Everybody knows the position, let’s move on.”

    I don’t think that’s fair.

    YOU might know the position, but it doesn’t mean the average punter in the street, who Guyon is supposed to represent and be doing his job for, does.

    • Bunji 6.1

      Except Guyon wasn’t trying to establish the position (which was well-established yesterday, and indeed prior to the Greens’ proposal), he was trying to get DC to diss the Greens: “so you’re going to sacrifice the Greens…”

      • blue leopard 6.1.1

        It sounded to me that he was trying to make it clear that Labour would be working with the Greens and make sense of Cunliffe’s/ Labour’s prevarication on the matter.

      • Lanthanide 6.1.2

        I simply don’t agree with that portrayal at all.

        Guyon was trying to get DC to give his position on it. Because this was actually his first media interview since the story had broken.

  7. Tracey 7

    so winston, who rules out saying who he will wotk with post election, is chastising and ridiculing labour for not working with the greens before the election.

    if reported in a particular way, winston has just indicated he will go with national post election. if i heard correctly winston he couldnt work with labour greens in a govt if they cant work together now.

    i understand people find it hard to fathom how the greens stick to their principles rather than sell their soul for power, funnily enough, some of the very same people who have a go at the maori party for doing just that with national.

    • Tamati 7.1

      If the Greens had principles, wouldn’t they have bottom lines?

      • Tracey 7.1.1

        you mean like fixed and unmoved… makes for very workable negotiations.

        • Tamati 7.1.1.1

          Yes, that’s entirely what principles are. Fixed and unmovable beliefs.

          • Tracey 7.1.1.1.1

            right. so if labour has some fixed and unmoveable beliefs that oppose greens fixed and immoveable beliefs you dont have a coalition you have N impasse.

            I think you misunderstand the difference between prinicples and beliefs.

            you might believe in god but that is not a principle.

            • Tamati 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Because if the Greens have no principles or bottom lines, they’ll end up with nothing. Can you imagine the hypocrisy of Green government allowing more offshore oil drilling!

              As I said before, the Greens have nothing to negotiate. They’ve already pledged to support a Labour government, so why would Labour concede anything to them?

              • Clemgeopin

                Because Labour is an honourable party with values of head and heart with principled leaders and is not a double crossing ungrateful crooked untrustworthy rat bag of a right wing party?

                • Tamati

                  Lol, you keep telling yourself that.

                  Tell me which one of the Labour front bench would be happy to forgo a cabinet seat and a $100,000 pay rise to make way for one of the Greens?

    • Mike S 7.2

      “so winston, who rules out saying who he will wotk with post election, is chastising and ridiculing labour for not working with the greens before the election.”

      Say what? That’s not what I garnered from Winston’s comments here:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11236078

      He seems to be quite supportive of Labour’s position and very critical of the Greens..

      Also, I think he said that NZFirst won’t work with the Maori party so I guess they possibly can with all other parties?

    • Lanthanide 7.3

      The problem with Winston is that he never gives a straight answer to anything, it’s very easy for different people to come to exact opposite conclusions from anything he’s said.

      Also when confronted later, he’ll just deny whatever interpretation is being presented to him that he finds inconvenient at the time.

  8. Pete 8

    If the Greens really wanted to demonstrate good faith, they would have first floated their proposal with Labour behind closed doors. If successful, a joint announcement could have been made.

    Doing it the way Norman did was always either going to force Labour’s hand or embarass Cunliffe in having to shoot the proposal down. It wasn’t a friendly gesture.

  9. Tracey 9

    The New Zealand First leader, Winston Peters, has questioned why his party would want to be part of any post election deal with Labour and the Green Party, if the two cannot co-operate in the run up to polling day. winston april 2014

    “In the ensuing months you’re going to hear all kinds of commentators tediously making all kinds of predictions about the formation of the next government.

    Where New Zealand First is concerned, the smartest thing you can do is to treat those comments with total ignore.

    We are not going to be pre-programmed or pressurised into any coalition arrangements before the people of this country have voted. What we are preparing for is to do whatever it takes to hold the other parties to account on the issues, some of which have just been mentioned. If that means that we may have to do that from the cross benches, then that is exactly what we will do.” peters dec 2013

    this means winston has just called himself tedious

    ” “

  10. Jimmie 10

    Up until now the hopes of the left have been on an Election result of roughly the following outcome:
    Nats 45-46%
    Lab= 34%
    Green= 12%
    NZF= 6%
    Mana + 1 seat

    The achilles heel in this scenario is Winne ‘I love my baubles’ Peters.

    He has historic ties with National and has never been in a government where the greens were involved. He has also indicated that he doesn’t want to be in a government with the greens and probably less with Mana.

    So what is Labour’s plan B if Winnie and John Key seem likely to hold hands on Sept 21 which could be enough to hit the magic 50% mark? (Not including I’m Dunne for, and ACTivate)

    Two scenarios that I can see:

    1 Tell the Greens to stay out in the cold but still provide confidence and supply to a Labour NZ First Government (A bit of a cheek if NZ First only have half the MP’s of the Green party)

    2 To entice Winnie to Labour’s camp promise him the earth – several cabinet posts and Himself back to Foreign Affairs?

    In either case the Greens get shafted badly, no policy gains and no cabinet seats but are still expected to cough up their support for confidence and supply.

    Or is David Cunliffe going to try and get Winnie and Russell Norman to hold hands together? Will Winnie be allowed to veto which green policies can be implemented?

    Gona be very interesting to see the outcome……and also if JK forms another government will Labour give Cunliffe another 3 years to have a crack in 2017?
    What happens to the ABC club – surely they have to be dealt to at some stage – a cancer left grows.

    • Pete 10.1

      What’s very interesting is last week’s Horizon Poll showing that while 66.5% of those polled think National will lead the government after the next election, 51.5% would prefer to see a Labour led government. Turnout is going to be so important.

      • BM 10.1.1

        51.5% would prefer to see a Labour led government.

        Just not this one and especially this one with Cunliffe in charge.

        I haven’t heard any one, apart from his idolaters say anything remotely positive about the man.
        Everyone seems to hate him.

        • Hanswurst 10.1.1.1

          Everybody I’ve met thinks John Key’s a complete dick. One of the reasons why we have opinion polls is so that people can be provided with information that doesn’t reflect the biases that they surround themselves with in everyday life in the form of friends, publications and personal interpretations. Of course, that doesn’t stop fools like you reading information into such polls when it isn’t there.

          • Mike S 10.1.1.1.1

            I agree. Everyone I know hates John Key with a passion. In fact I haven’t met anyone who likes him at all, which leaves me bewildered when I see poll figures.which always show him as being so popular.

            • Hanswurst 10.1.1.1.1.1

              It doesn’t bewilder me at all. Most people I talk about politics with are a bit like me in some ways. However, the evidence of my own eyes tells me that most people in general aren’t much like me at all. Therefore polls that do not reflect my opinion are to be expected.

      • srylands 10.1.2

        So why doesn’t Labour attract 51.5% of the vote?

        • Ant 10.1.2.1

          Because of reading comprehension.

          A Labour led government and a Labour majority are two different things. :D

        • miravox 10.1.2.2

          Because Labour is not National-no-mates (credible mates, that is).

    • Clemgeopin 10.2

      As regards the possibility of NZF going with National which is a real possibility, it is relevant to recall what Key said of Winston’s supporters in his secret tape during the Banks-Key cup of tea shenanigan that the NZF voters are a dying lot. Not sure these supporters will be thrilled with such a coalition deal.

  11. Pascal's bookie 11

    From what I understand, and please give me a link that shows I’m wrong, the only ‘coalition deal’ being talked about was that ‘the executive would reflect the votes of the coalition’.

    This means that if it was more than just Lab+Greens, then that’s already accounted for. NZF, for eg, would be entitled to their share. I’ve seen a lot of talk from Labour people saying this was about locking NZF out or locking down ministries, or whatever. I’ve seen no evidence of this though.

    • Jimmie 11.1

      Sounds good and fair PB however Winnie’s view of what ‘entitled to his share’ means may be entirely different to yours – think Helen Clark in 1996. Peters has stated he doesn’t want to be part of any government where the Greens are involved and will likely have a veto over what Green policy is implemented.

      If Labour and the Greens don’t like this he will quite easily say I’m with the blue camp.

      So would Labour prefer to be in Government by snubbing their green mates and letting Peters have free reign or tell Winnie First to piss off and staying in opposition for another 3 years?

      Rock and Hard place scenario

      • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1

        Right, so contra what Labour peeps have been saying, this isn’t about ‘arrogant greens’, but about Winston wagging the dog.

        Few points:

        That C&S isn’t the end game. Governments have to pass legislation. (This factors in when we start talking about parties, (NZF or The Greens), sitting on the cross benches. They don’t have to vote for legislation, which is all that matters.)

        That Labour should be doing all it can to emphasise that a vote for Winston isn’t a vote to change the government (this means never, ever, describing him as an ‘option Labour has’. He isn’t, Labour is an option Winston has).

        That increasing the Greens vote, (by suggesting to Labour friendly voters that Labour might sideline the Greens), makes the LP more beholden to the Greens, not less. It reduces options, rather than increases them.

        • Tracey 11.1.1.1

          plus lots

          I suspect some of the comments are from the right just stirring it up

        • Bunji 11.1.1.2

          “the proposal had largely been about the language they used to describe their relationship.”

          Greens wanting to define it as a “Labour-Green” or “Green-Labour” government, Labour wanting it to be a “Labour-led” government. One putting them on equal footing, one making clear that one party would be the predominant force in the coalition.

          On top of that, yes, ideally NZ First isn’t needed – but if it is, does NZ First want to be the bridesmaid at a pre-arranged Labour-Greens wedding, or does it want to participate in a “Labour-led” government. One of these will be much more palatable to Winston…

          Labour can campaign against Winston, but when he still turns out to be the kingmaker – what then?

          Nailing things down in a formal arrangement reduces options, not waiting to see the cards voters deal and negotiating things then.

          • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1.2.1

            “Labour can campaign against Winston, but when he still turns out to be the kingmaker – what then?”

            Winston will do what Winston will do. It’s a crap shoot. If it comes down to it, he will probably go with National instead of being a third fiddle. Or maybe not.

            But saying Labour led, instead of Labour/Green will have so little bearing on it that I don’t even know what the hell y’all are talking about.

            Personally, I’d advise Cunliffe to wait for Winston’s next racist outburst, or Grosser, or whoever, and use it to announce that NZF may be necessary to get rid of National, but they are the last cab off the rank, because they are inherently unstable (Horan!) and are just as likely to go with National anyway.

            The point being to signal loud and clear to everyone who wants to get rid of National, that they should not vote for Winston. Voting for Winston is not voting to change the government. It is voting to have Winston in government.

            Winston would huff and puff and say Labour will come crawling when Labour wants to escape the Greens. Let him. Every vote Winston gets from National helps. Every vote he gets from Labour, hurts.

            And none of it change the fact that if Winston holds the ballance of power, he will decide what to do based on what he wants to do then, not on what happened during the campaign.

    • Ant 11.2

      The One News story from last night had the proposed deal, 3 main points; campaigning as a Labour/Green government, posts dictated by percentages, and one other thing I can’t recall.

  12. greywarbler 12

    Not much enlightenment from the commenters here. Still at chewing gum stage. Baby steps yet to come.

  13. outofbed 13

    Labour and National are more suited
    centre and centre right
    if you want a centre party vote Labour
    If you want left ,Vote Green or Mana

    • Clemgeopin 13.1

      Read the policies of all parties on their party websites and vote for the party that suits you and the country best overall.

      However, it is a little premature to read all the policies yet because the all the policies will only be revealed a few weeks before the election and not before due to busy people’s short memory span as well as to ensure maximum exposure in the media just before the elections.

  14. Sabine 14

    actually, i would not mind to know more on the things that Labour and the Green Party can or can not work on.

    What are the differences and why? Who can not work with whom and why?

    I, the Voter would very much like to know just how far centrist right Labour is going to move to appease the National voter who does not want to vote National, but might vote labour just to get rid of Key.

    I, the Citizen, would very much like to know what Labour believes it can achieve, and no, I am not really interested in Education and housing only. I would like to know what Labour is going to do to revive rural NZ, what Labour is going to do to reduce Unemployment, what Labour is going to do about the consequences of the Beneficiary Bashing, and how they are going to re-educate Winz staff so that their Clients may be treated with respect.

    I, the women would like to know if Labour is going to address Pay Equality – this one i really would like a Party to finally stand up and explain to the men of NZ how much money they don’t get because their Wifes are not paid full fare. and while Labour is at it, announce that you will just raise the friggen minimum wage to something like 16$, and don’t back down.

    and so on and so on.

    I really don’t care anymore of the Antics of Mrs. Bennett, Mrs. Collins, Mr. Bridge and the likes. I want to know what Labour is going to do, and I want them to be loud, proud and brash about it, and I want them to speak to all their potential Coalition Partners, discuss their agreements beforehand and make these discussions and their content known.
    We the Citizens, the Voters and their dependent should know just what we are voting for. You think not?

    • Stuart Munro 14.1

      Yes.

      And if Labour is busy trying to be the mirror to Winston’s chameleon no-one is going to have any idea what Labour stands for beyond ‘trust us’ – a very big ask from the party of Douglas & Prebble.

      There is much work to be done and no excuse for dissembling.

    • Clemgeopin 14.2

      It makes absolutely no sense to negotiate and discus AGREEMENTS for a coalition deal before an election, unless the polls show close proximity in support. Labour at 33% and the Greens at 11% is not close enough.

      The ONLY way for you is to not worry about coalition policies but to concentrate on the policies of each party and see which overall you like better.

      Simply go to their party websites and study the policies and vote for the party that suits YOU best without second guessing what the other voters are thinking..

      After the votes are in, we will all know what the voters have dealt. It is then that common or suitable policies that they can live with could be negotiated between parties.

      We have no idea if Greens get 4% in which case they are gone or 11% as the polls now suggest. There are still 5 months to go and all policies are yet to be announced.

      If we go into an election on common platform, we might as well make it a single party!

      The same applies to other possible coalition partners such as NZA( possibly 7 to 10%), and Mana.Com ( Possibly 5%)

      Why should the Greens get an advantage over the others before the voters have shown their preferences?

  15. gnomic 15

    The last time I saw Winston preaching to the oldies, he gave the triumvirate (Key, English, Joyce) both barrels in terms that a lawyer might have found interesting. Certainly didn’t seem like a friend of the National Party. As per usual he utterly rubbished the Greens. Fundamentally I don’t think Winnie cares about birds and snails, or indeed anything much but a handsome salary with expenses, baubles and foreign travel with photo opps. And oddly enough the Labour party didn’t rate a mention whatsoever. There was no mention of his successor as leader of the Winnie First League.

    • Ad 15.1

      Winston cares about stuff that at least 8% of voters care about, and no other party does this policy combination:
      - people over 65
      - people worried about immigration
      - an export-led economy
      - too much land owned by foreigners
      - horse racing and gambling
      - smoking and drinking

      I think he’s going to do 8% this time.
      Watch him work the magic.

  16. dave 16

    even greens and NZ policy isn’t that different lets take kiwi saver ,labours work with private providers the current system .NZ first and the greens nationalise kiwi saver funds same general idea.
    there is a lot more in common than you think ,some NZ firsts policy and greens and labour ideas are very very good affordable housing ,stop corporate rorting of ordinary citizens and best of all three parties is to turn there backs on neoliberalism.

  17. Bill 17

    Don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this in the comments. I agree, it’s not that complicated. But it’s also not about the Green Party or the Labour Party. It is, or should be, about us. That’s how simple it is.

    • Each party simply present it’s leaders, candidates and policies to ‘us the people’ as well as they can and let us judge them via the ballot box? That would be a bit too radical.

      Wheeling and dealing and squealing rules.

  18. vto 18

    The Greens made a mistake in not going into government in the past as now they are unable to point to any experience or ability at being in government, right when they need it the most. And conversely, this lack of experience and proven ability makes it very easy for the right to paint them in the light they do.

    Best acknowledge the mistake and remedy at next available opportunity.

    • BM 18.1

      Yep if they worked with national they’d have some political track record by now.

      Also they would get more concessions from labour when the red team gets a shot.

      This is basic stuff but some how overlooked by all the big brains in the green camp.

      • felix 18.1.1

        They have worked with National you idiot. They still are working with National wherever possible.

        They work with National on any policy goal that’s common to both parties, which is exactly what any party should do. It’s a pity most of National’s policy goals are inhuman and stupid, but that’s not the Greens’ fault.

  19. MrSmith 19

    Another good week, if nothing else Labour/Greens have had plenty of air time, the more the public hear Cunliffe and Norman speck before the election the better, yes it wasn’t the greatest of issues but that’s not the point, the point is to get people interested, talking and familiar with them so they feel they know and trust them before the election.

  20. Clemgeopin 20

    Good point.

  21. fisiani 21

    Found this list on DPF’s blog
    If you want to know why The Cunliffe does not want to be joined at the hip with The Greens. The Greens are fanatics. They are not normal people. They are zealots who want to impose their beliefs on us all. They truly want to
    1.Ban fizzy drinks from schools
    2.Ban fuel inefficient vehicles
    3.Ban all gaming machines in pubs
    4.Ban the GCSB
    5.Ban violent TV programmes until after 10 pm
    6.Ban feeding of antibiotics to animals that are not sick
    7.Ban companies that do not comply with a Code of Corporate Responsibility
    8.Ban ACC from investing in enterprises that provide products or services that significantly increase rates of injury or illness or otherwise have significant adverse social or environmental effects
    9.Ban commercial Genetic Engineering trials
    10.Ban field testing on production of GE food
    11.Ban import of GE food
    12.Ban Urban Sprawl
    13.Ban non citizens/residents from owning land
    14.Ban further corporate farming
    15.Ban sale of high country farms to NZers who do not live in NZ at least 185 days a year
    16.Ban the transport by sea of farm animals, for more than 24 hours
    17.Ban crates for sows
    18.Ban battery cages for hens
    19.Ban factory farming of animals
    20.Ban the use of mechanically recovered meat in the food chain
    21.Ban the use of the ground-up remains of sheep and cows as stock feed
    22.Ban animal testing where animals suffer, even if of benefit to humans
    23.Ban cloning of animals
    24.Ban use of animals in GE
    25.Ban GE animal food
    26.Ban docking of dogs tails
    27.Ban intrusive animal experimentation as a teaching method in all educational institutions
    28.Ban smacking
    29.Ban advertising during children’s programmes
    30.Ban alcohol advertising on TV and radio
    31.Ban coal mining
    32.Ban the export of indigenous logs and chips
    33.Ban the use of bio-accumulative and persistent poisons
    34.Ban the establishment of mustelid farms
    35.Ban new exploration, prospecting and mining on conservation land and reserves
    36.Ban mining activities when rare and endemic species are found to present on the mining site
    37.Ban the trading conservation land for other land to facilitate extractive activities on.
    38.Ban the further holding of marine mammals in captivity except as part of an approved threatened species recovery strategy
    39.Ban the direct to consumer advertising of pharmaceuticals
    40.Ban sale of chips and lollies on school property
    41.Ban any additional use of coal for energy
    42.Ban fixed electricity charges
    43.Ban further large hydro plants
    44.Ban nuclear power
    45.Ban further thermal generation
    46.Ban private water management
    47.Ban imported vehicles over seven years old
    48.Ban the disposal of recyclable materials at landfills
    49.Ban the export of hazardous waste to non OECD countries
    50.Ban funding of health services by companies that sell unhealthy food (so McDonalds could not fund services for young cancer sufferers)
    51.Ban healthcare organizations from selling unhealthy food or drink
    52.Ban advertising of unhealthy food until after 8.30 pm
    53.Ban all food and drink advertisements on TV if they do not meet criteria for nutritious food
    54.Ban the use of antibiotics as sprays on crops
    55.Ban food irradiation within NZ
    56.Ban irradiated food imports
    57.Ban growth hormones for animals
    58.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that denies climate change!!
    59.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that is involved in tobacco
    60.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that is involved in environmentally damaging oil extraction or gold mining
    61.Ban non UN sanctioned military involvement (so China and Russia gets to veto all NZ engagements)
    62.Ban NZ from military treaties which are based on the right to self defence
    63.Ban NZers from serving as mercenaries
    64.Ban new casinos
    65.Allow existing casinos to be banned
    66.Ban promotion of Internet gambling
    67.Ban advertising of unhealthy food to children
    68.Ban cellphone towers within 300 metres of homes
    69.Ban new buildings that do not confirm to sustainable building principles
    70.Ban migrants who do not undertake Treaty of Waitangi education programmes
    71.Ban new prisons
    72.Ban semi-automatic weapons
    73.Ban genetic mixing between specieis
    74.Ban ocean mineral extractions within the EEZ
    75.Ban limited liability companies by making owners responsible for liability of products
    76.Ban funding of PTEs that compete with public tertiary institutes
    77.Ban the importation of goods and services that do not meet quality and environmental certification standards in production, lifecycle analysis, and eco-labelling
    78.Ban goods that do not meet quality and sustainability standards for goods which are produced and/or sold in Aotearoa/New Zealand
    79.Ban new urban highways or motorways
    80.Ban private toll roads
    81.Ban import of vehicles more than seven years old unless they meet emission standards
    82.Ban imported goods that do not meet standards for durability and ease of recycling
    83.Ban landfills
    84.Ban new houses without water saving measures
    85.Ban programmes on TVNZ with gratuitous violence

    The problem here is that several posters will hail this list as wonderful news. It actually explains why the Greens have and never will be in government.

    • Clemgeopin 21.1

      Thanks for that exhaustive list!
      I am not a Green voter and I did not know all their policies you have publicised. I actually like many of those policies. Sure, a few are debatable, but most are very very good! You have perhaps inadvertently put in a valuable plug for the Greens even though you seem to be a hardened extreme right wing nutter going by some of your posts!

      It DOES NOT explain why Greens don’t get elected. It actually does explain why at least 11% of the population SUPPORT them!

      Labour gets more support because Labour has policies that are doable without extremism.

      • fisiani 21.1.1

        It explains why 8 out of 9 people realize they are nutters

      • srylands 21.1.2

        “sure, a few are debatable, but most are very very good! ”

        All of them are very very bad.

        This is my problem with you. You are looking at policy making through an irrational lens.

        “Ban new urban highways’? We need hundreds of kms of new motorways. We are the way behind other OECD countries on motorways.

        Ban cellphone towers near homes – not based on science.

        Ban private toll roads – hurts the poor – greens forcing poor to subsidise people who drive a long way.

        Ban new casinos – not a role for government.

        Ban private water management – irrational.

        Ban imported goods that don’t meat recycling standards – breaches WTO rules.

        They are nearly all nutty. But they are also damaging , and would especially hurt those on lower incomes. That is the perversity. The Greens purport to have the interests of the poor in mind, when their policies will be most damaging to those on lower incomes.

    • felix 21.2

      So tell me fisiani, which policy on that made-up list do you object to and why?

      Be specific please, pick any one and give the reason you think it’s a bad idea.

    • Lanthanide 21.3

      I’m actually surprised by the number of those I agree with.

      There are a few I’m on the fence on, and a bit more that I’m against. But overall it’s good policy.

      • felix 21.3.1

        Yeah me too, a lot of it just seems like sensible and pretty moderate mainstream stuff for a modern progressive society.

        And that’s supposed to be the right’s “shock horror” list, which really says more about how radical and extremist Farrar and his drones are.

        • McFlock 21.3.1.1

          Yep.
          I had to look up “mustelid” though. We have ferret farms in NZ?

        • Populuxe1 21.3.1.2

          4.Ban the GCSB seems a bit silly – put controls on it by all means, especially in terms of domestic spying, but let’s not pretend the world is all unicorns and rainbows.
          5.Ban violent TV programmes until after 10 pm – don’t see the point of this at all.
          8.Ban ACC from investing in enterprises that provide products or services that significantly increase rates of injury or illness or otherwise have significant adverse social or environmental effects – in principle I agree, practically I would like to see a structured plan.
          9.Ban commercial Genetic Engineering trials – yet to see comprehensive scientific evidence that all GE is bad, and why rule out possible medical applications.
          14.Ban further corporate farming – ban affordable food while you’re at it.
          22.Ban animal testing where animals suffer, even if of benefit to humans – nope, if it benefits humans it trumps animal rights.
          23.Ban cloning of animals – what, even if it can be done without harming animals? What’s the point in that?
          24.Ban use of animals in GE – depends if it can be shown to benefit humans or not.
          27.Ban intrusive animal experimentation as a teaching method in all educational institutions – Not sure I agree, especially in medical and vet schools.
          28.Ban smacking – somewhat redundant as it is already dealt with in legislation.
          30.Ban alcohol advertising on TV and radio
          31.Ban coal mining
          40.Ban sale of chips and lollies on school property
          41.Ban any additional use of coal for energy – I would support in principle
          43.Ban further large hydro plants – no.
          44.Ban nuclear power – It’s already banned.
          45.Ban further thermal generation – I can’t even think why.
          50.Ban funding of health services by companies that sell unhealthy food (so McDonalds could not fund services for young cancer sufferers) – well that’s just stupid.
          53.Ban all food and drink advertisements on TV if they do not meet criteria for nutritious food – fuck off. By all means keep it out of children’s TV hours, but otherwise that’s just fascist.
          55.Ban food irradiation within NZ – no science to back this
          56.Ban irradiated food imports – no science to back this
          61.Ban non UN sanctioned military involvement – no, we are a sovereign nation and no other UN member would agree to this.
          62.Ban NZ from military treaties which are based on the right to self defence – WTF?!?!
          65.Allow existing casinos to be banned – excessive wowserism
          71.Ban new prisons – not sure this is practical as our existing prisons age.
          72.Ban semi-automatic weapons – I was under the impression they were effectively controlled anyway
          79.Ban new urban highways or motorways – really not sensible, especially if there is an earthquake or something
          82.Ban imported goods that do not meet standards for durability and ease of recycling – that will be a rather expensive stance
          83.Ban landfills – not practical at all
          85.Ban programmes on TVNZ with gratuitous violence – paging Mary Whitehouse. So no Sopranos, no Game of Thrones, no Walking Dead, no anything really.

          • felix 21.3.1.2.1

            You do realise this is just David Farrar’s list, don’t you?

            • McFlock 21.3.1.2.1.1

              even so, it’s funny to see some of the things that farrar thinks would be nightmarish policies :)

  22. fisiani 22

    It explains why 8 out of 9 people will never vote for them. It explains why The Cunliffe does not want to be linked with them. It is an exhaustive list of why they will lose. Let me patiently explain. 8 out of 9 voters do not want these extremist nutbars. Get Labour get The Greens thus less votes for Labour/Green axis of fanaticism.

    • blue leopard 22.1

      So what is your explanation of the results of this poll saying 52% (approx. 5 out of 9) of eligible voters would prefer a Green/Labour government over a NZFirst/Labour government – and only 6% (half a person out of 9) said they wouldn’t want either choice?

      http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/images/ONE_News_Colmar_Brunton_Poll_report_19-23_Oct_2013.pdf

      (pg 17)

      Also, just because someone votes for one party, doesn’t mean they are not o.k about another getting in. I realise this will be a difficult concept for you to grasp but on the left we have lots of good parties to choose from.

  23. Craig Y 23

    Here’s an overview of how social democratic/green/anti-market populist party coalitions have worked out from an international perspective (an excerpt from a forthcoming Gaynz.Com article on the issue):

    I must also admit that frankly, I find remarks from some political commentators that a Labour/Green coalition would be unstable or unworkable either woefully ignorant or highly selective in terms of their awareness of overseas centre-left social democratic/green coalitions that have worked well. In Germany, Social Democrat Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder led a successful and effective Social Democrat/Green coalition (1998-2005) for two Bundestag terms. In Finland, Social Democrat Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen’s government included Cabinet minister representation from both the Green League and Finnish People’s Party (akin to New Zealand First), so it might be interesting to focus on how that worked (1995-2002). Iceland saw (out lesbian) Prime Minister Johanna Sigurdasdottir lead a ‘red/green’ coalition in power for four years (2009-2013). There are therefore ample examples of functional and stable social democratic/green coalitions in place within Western Europe should anyone wish to consult them for precedents. In Canada, the centrist Liberal Party and Green Party of Canada also have an informal ‘red/green’ relationship in the House of Commons. I would suggest that instead of unsubstantiated and subjective opinion, television news and current affairs programmes research these prior instances, as indeed should Labour and the Greens themselves. Germany, Finland and Iceland suggest that a red/green coalition is stable and workable.

    What about ‘traffic light coalitions’ that might conceivably include Labour, the Greens and New Zealand First? These have existed overseas. In particularly, the Czech Republic may offer some interesting insights into how this might unfold. Rather like New Zealand First, the Czech Peoples Party is predominantly targeted at elderly voters and its political existence is marginal, depending on whether or not it is acting as a protest vote or taking advantage of the cyclical weakness of one of the major Czech political parties. However, in Denmark, the Danish Peoples Party has aligned itself with the centre-right Conservatives and Liberals in government over the last decade, which might hearten New Zealand First (and National?), or not. Similarly, in 2007, the Polish Peoples Party formed a coalition with the centre-right Civic Platform, the major winner in that year’s national election. However, again, in Slovakia, its Peoples Party formed a coalition with the centre-left Social Democrats (2006-2010). Thus, if Winston Peters chose to play a more constructive role in current New Zealand electoral politics, he would have precedents on both sides of his prospective balancing act. The Czech Republic and Slovakia offer one set of examples, while Denmark and Poland offer the other option. However, the Czech Republic seems to be the only example of a ‘traffic light’ coalition arrangement. Winston could go either way, judging from the behaviour of his counterparts and closest political equivalents elsewhere.

    Recommended Further Reading:

    Charles Lees: The Red/Green Coalition in Germany: Politics, Personalities and Power: Manchester: Palgrave: 2000.

    Werner Reutter: Germany on the Road to Normalcy: Politics and Policies of the Red/Green Federal Government: 1998-2002 Manchester: Palgrave: 2004

    Franko Zelko and Caroline Brinkman: Green Parties: Reflections on the First Three Decades: Washington DC: Heinrich Boll Foundation: 2006.

    Elizabeth Bomberg: Green Parties and Politics in the European Community: London: Routledge: 1998.

    Tad Shull: Redefining Red and Green: Ideology and Strategy in European Politics: Albany: State University of New York Press: 1999

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    Labour | 22-07
  • National out of touch with the regions
    John Key is out of touch with regional New Zealand if he believes tinkering with council regulations will restore opportunities to small towns, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “While the regions are crying out for sustainable growth and job opportunities,...
    Labour | 22-07
  • Flyover rejection a victory for sustainable transport
    The rejection of the proposed Basin Reserve flyover by a Board of Inquiry is a victory for sustainable transport in Wellington and paves the way for other alternatives to be given a fair hearing, Wellington Labour MPs Grant Robertson and...
    Labour | 22-07
  • Reo Māori Policy Launch
    MANA will be launching its Reo Māori policy at 10am Thursday 24 July, at Matangireia (the old Māori Affairs Select Committee room at Parliament). We will also be addressing our concerns regarding the Minister of Māori Affairs Māori Language Strategy...
    Mana | 22-07
  • Basin Flyover decision victory for common sense
    The Green Party welcomed the Environmental Protection Authority's draft decision announced today not to allow the $90 million Basin Reserve flyover in Wellington to proceed."Both popular and expert opinion opposed the flyover. The proposal was expensive, unnecessary and would have...
    Greens | 22-07
  • Loss Leading could destroy Kiwi lamb’s reputation
    Meat companies that supply supermarkets and sell New Zealand lamb as a loss leader in the United Kingdom should lose their access to this valuable quota market, said Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor. “Our reputation as a Lamb producer...
    Labour | 22-07
  • Ae Marika! 22 July 2014
    The big storm has gone, but the damage that it did and the saturation levels that it reached meant that smaller storms quickly overwhelmed roading, and water-flow systems again in the north. And although certain individuals are talking up the...
    Mana | 21-07
  • 2014 Roger Award nominations now open
    The Roger Award is for The Worst Transnational Corporation Operating in Aotearoa/New Zealand in 2014 Nominations are now open please visit the website to nominate the worst TNC in Aotearoa. You will need to include reasons why you think your...
    Mana | 21-07
  • Labour will revive the regions with new fund
    The next Labour Government will co-develop Regional Growth Plans for every region of New Zealand and will invest at least $200 million in a fund to create breakthrough opportunities for jobs and sustainable growth, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says....
    Labour | 21-07
  • Something Fishy About Nick Smith’s Game.
    NICK SMITH’S crude intimidation of the Fish and Game Council points to the bleakest of environmental futures should National be re-elected on 20 September. It is now considerably clearer than 60 percent of New Zealand’s lakes, rivers and streams that...
    The Daily Blog | 28-07
  • Key’s odd personal hypocrisy in Epsom, his kiss of death to the Maori Par...
    Aside from tricking Colin Craig into running in an electorate National can crush him in, John Key has announced three things in his election deals that are ill thought out. The first is his deal with the Maori Party. At a time...
    The Daily Blog | 28-07
  • Why it’s all over for the Conservative Party
    Whatever flirtations were made months ago to Colin Craig by National strategists, the polling must have come back showing them too much of their soft urban vote would walk if Key was in Government with Colin Craig.  The necessary inside muscle to...
    The Daily Blog | 28-07
  • Balance in the NZ Herald and has something gone terribly wrong at the Heral...
    So the ‘balance’ in the NZ Herald this year for the election will be… Guest columnists will include the acerbic Cactus Kate from the radical right, former Labour candidate Josie Pagani and broadcaster Mark Sainsbury. Right, so that would be...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • Phew – National Party hubris seals strategy
    The National Party are bot listening to Matthew Hooton. Phew. Hooton has crunched the numbers and based on past polling National always drops 6 points come election day. National aren’t listening. Barging through the need to cut deals with all...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • Noam Chomsky on the TPPA
    Noam Chomsky on the TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • Unacceptable secrecy around labelling people terrorists
    It’s good to see the Sunday Star-Times attempting to get more information from government agencies about Daryl Jones, the Kiwi killed in a US drone strike in Yemen.  The paper is right to complain about the government’s refusal to provide...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • A critical deconstruction of John Key – what’s behind the facade?
    Aspiring national leaders need a popular narrative of their rise to power.  Once in office, the narrative can be refined to fit the requirements of leadership and re-election.  Such is the purpose of John Roughan’s John Key: Portrait of  a...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • Radio Live – off Mark
    The Top Marks lasted five weeks on Mediaworks radio station The Sound. This may have something to do with last being relevant in the mid-1980s when there were only two commercial FM licences in Auckland and they were on one...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • Wellingtonians say ‘No!’ to Israeli aggression
    .   . Wellington, NZ, 26 July – About 600 Wellingtonians, and from further afield, met at the Cuba Mall Bucket fountain under a wintery sunny sky, to protest Israel’s continuing aggression in the Gaza strip, which – at the...
    The Daily Blog | 27-07
  • GUEST BLOG: Shasha Ali – I am an indigenous person but I will never call ...
    Yesterday was indeed a politically hectic day in Aoteaora New Zealand, especially if you are an activist that cares about both human and non-human animal rights. Protest actions were organised to demand an end to factory farming from about noon, and...
    The Daily Blog | 26-07
  • Pro-Israel, Pro-Palestine or ‘Pro-Peace’?
    Latest protest for people of Gaza in Auckland In the past couple of weeks I have heard a lot of people say that they are neither Pro-Israel nor Pro-Palestine; they are pro-peace. This is a stand that I respect. Everyone...
    The Daily Blog | 26-07
  • So we can’t feed the kids, the poor OR the sick now?
    Let me get this straight. We can borrow $10 billion in tax cuts over the last 6 years for the richest NZers, but we can not feed the kids, the poor or even the sick now? Revealed: Warning over hospital food...
    The Daily Blog | 26-07
  • Kim Dotcom has said it, Laila Harre has said it and now David fisher says i...
    Fascinating piece by David Fisher in the NZ Herald breaking down how many opportunities the Government had to listen to officials and stop KDC entering the country and concludes KDC should never have been allowed in… It prepared papers for the...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • You, Me and the GCSB Public Meetings
      The GCSB and TICS legislation rushed through Parliament by John Key represent the largest erosion of civil liberties this country has seen since the 1951 Waterfront Lockout. In the post Snowden world we now know a mass surveillance state operating...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • A feminist takedown of Whale Oil
    Whale Oil does it again. How many more times is he going to attack and discredit Tania Billingsley publicly? In a short blog published on Wednesday ‘Nothing to be sorry for‘ Whale Oil also known as Cameron Slater, is defending John Key...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Ares Rolinson – New Zealand First – We’ll Be Back
    Earlier this week, Bomber penned a missive which set out in some detail why he thought my people, New Zealand First, wouldn’t be making it back into Parliament later this year. Being a pugnacious, vindictive sort who’d never let such an...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • The changes teachers DO want
    “Oh you teachers, you just want everything to stay the same – what’s wrong with choice?  Bloody teachers.  Typical that you don’t want testing – trying to hide that you’re all useless. What about our poor kids?  Gnash gnash rant rant...” That’s...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • A feminist take down of Whale Oil
    Whale Oil does it again. How many more times is he going to attack and discredit Tania Billingsley publicly? In a short blog published on Wednesday Nothing to be sorry for Whale Oil also known as Cameron Slater, is defending John Key...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • On so called Labour Party ‘distractions’
    The right wing of the Labour Party are constructing a narrative that Labour need to stop chasing distractions and focus on the real issues that matter and not these silly GCSB, inequality, domestic violence, media bias, TPPA issues. It is...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • Selfies: Labour’s Electorate MPs are at it again
    IT’S A LITTLE TRIANGLE of grass at the corner of Rewa Street and Mt Eden Road, ideal for election hoardings. Wandering along Mt Eden Road last Saturday morning to our weekly appointment with the brunch menu at Orvieto, my family and...
    The Daily Blog | 25-07
  • Well, well, well – Jonathan Coleman did know about FBI interest into Kim ...
    Last years GCSB Town Hall meeting in Auckland Oh dear, the cover up and lies are starting to fall over now aren’t they… Coleman knew of FBI interest in Dotcom pre-residency decisionGovernment minister Jonathan Coleman knew the FBI was interested...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Why You Must March Against Factory Farming This Saturday, 12pm
    The rally this Saturday is critical because this is the FIRST TIME IN NEW ZEALAND HISTORY that a major party has agreed to ban all intensive factory farming practices. The Labour party, the Greens, Internet-Mana, the SPCA, SAFE and other...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Astronaut tweets photo of explosions over Israel and Gaza from space
      This is what a war zone looks like from space: From aboard the International Space Station, German astronaut Alexander Gerst tweeted this image as the station passed over Israel and Gaza in what he called ‘his saddest photo yet’....
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • When Firstline are focusing on flag burning rather than dead Palestinian ch...
    The IDF are butchering children in UN schools this morning and what’s the big issue on TV3s Firstline? Flag burning. How pathetic, and what a slap in the face to Mike McRoberts who is currently risking his life in Gaza...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • ‘Victim’ vs ‘Terrorist’
    ‘Victim’ vs ‘Terrorist’...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Petition asking TVNZ to stand Hosking down as election moderator jumps to o...
    In just a day the petition calling on TVNZ to replace Hosking as the election moderator has jumped to over 2500, you can sign it here. The defence that the Right are trying to run here is that John Campbell...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • When the mainstream media go feral: the descent into sheer farce, according...
    . . It had to happen, I guess… The media pack-campaign against Labour Leader David Cunliffe has managed to  plumb new depths of absurdity. On TV3, on 24 July,  TV3/Tova O’Brien ran this report on their 6PM News bulletin, about...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting: MIKE HOSKING FOR PM?
    Yes indeed. Mike Hosking is for the PM. And now he’s able to do even more as moderator (or should that be immoderator) of TVNZ’s election debates. Here at the Coalition for Better Broadcasting we feel it’s pretty safe to say that...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • The lie that “There is no alternative” to neo-liberal economic policies
    Supporters of President Maduro in Venezuela rally   Since the 1980s we have had drubbed into our heads that there was no alternative to the economic and social policies unleashed at that time. It even had it’s own acronym – TINA. The...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • A Kanaky tale of mining skulduggery and environmental courage
    Florent Eurisouké … still campaigning against mining. Photo: Del Abcede/PMC David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific AN EXTRAORDINARY story of mining skulduggery and a courageous struggle by indigenous Kanak environmental campaigners has been captured in a poignant new documentary,...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • UNBREAKING: The list of questions Mike Hosking will use in first TVNZ leade...
    “Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the first TVNZ leaders debate being held live in the gloriously beautiful Sky City ball room. It’s such a beautiful building boys and girls, we are so blessed to have Sky City...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Internet Party Party review
      I have been to A LOT of political party functions in my time, and they tend to be dull affairs at the best of times but what is happening with Internet MANA is something quite exciting. I went to...
    The Daily Blog | 24-07
  • Dear Seven Sharp – after learning Hosking will be the leaders debate ...
    I have to be honest, I had made the decision last night  to accept Seven Sharp’s hastily offered opportunity to appear on their show after I savagely criticised the bullshit whitewash story they did on John Key’s favourite far right hate speech...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • National refuses meeting with Maui’s advocates
    MIL OSI – Source: Green Party – Headline: National refuses meeting with Maui’s advocates Wednesday, 23 Jul 2014 | Press Release This is another reminder that the National Government does not care about the survival of the Maui’s dolphin National...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Message from CTU President Helen Kelly
    MIL OSI – Source: Unite Union – Headline: Message from CTU President Helen Kelly Dear MikeThere’s only 43 days until September 3, when voting in the General Election starts. The last day to vote is September 20.Thanks heaps for signing...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • MANA Tamaki send a challenge to Labour
    MIL OSI – Source: Mana Movement – Headline: MANA Tamaki send a challenge to Labour Posted on July 23, 2014 by admin in Joe Carolan, Press Releases“Labour should set the agenda and purposely do something positively controversial once a week”,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • We must act to save our dolphins
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: We must act to save our dolphins A new report makes it clear for the urgent need to protect Maui’s and Hector’s dolphins while arguing  it is clear that there is no...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • School told to manipulate national standards data
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: School told to manipulate national standards data Parents can have little confidence in the Government’s National Standards after an Auckland school was told to manipulate its data so it added up, Labour’s...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Regional economies must have tailored plans
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: Regional economies must have tailored plans News that up to 114 jobs could be lost from Fonterra’s Canpac plant in Hamilton reinforces the need for a government plan to build resilient regional...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Auditor General slams Shared Services project
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: Auditor General slams Shared Services project The Auditor-General’s Office could not have been more damning about the 18 months spent on the Central Agency Shared Services (CASS) project at the Finance and...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Fonterra job losses a massive blow to Waikato
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: Fonterra job losses a massive blow to Waikato The potential loss of up to 114 jobs from Fonterra’s Canpac plant in Hamilton is a massive blow to the Waikato region which has...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Basin flyover decision an opportunity for capital
    MIL OSI – Source: Labour Party – Headline: Basin flyover decision an opportunity for capital The decision to reject the proposed flyover at the Basin Reserve must be taken as an opportunity to properly fund Wellington’s transport future and must...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Indonesia: New President Widodo must make good on human rights pledges
    MIL OSI – Source: Amnesty International NZ – Headline: Indonesia: New President Widodo must make good on human rights pledges Indonesia’s new President Joko Widodo must deliver on campaign promises to improve Indonesia’s dire human rights situation, Amnesty International said....
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Communities in Sierra Leone turn their backs on female genital mutilation
    MIL OSI – Source: Amnesty International NZ – Headline: Communities in Sierra Leone turn their backs on female genital mutilation While activists gather in London to discuss strategies to tackle female genital mutilation, communities across Sierra Leone have been taking...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • The Gambia: Activists mark 20 years of iron-fisted repression
    MIL OSI – Source: Amnesty International NZ – Headline: The Gambia: Activists mark 20 years of iron-fisted repression The Gambian government must abolish the laws and iron fisted practices that have resulted in two decades of widespread human rights violations,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • A blog from the front lines of Palestine: It’s time for a new narrative
    I don’t know if I follow trouble or if trouble follows me, but somehow I seem to have found myself near one of the world’s hotspots again. The difference this time is that instead of sitting in some obscure location,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • GUEST BLOG: Michael Wood – The Path Ahead
    It’s well established that Labour has had a difficult couple of weeks. Getting back on to a successful path requires our focus to shift from looking inwards to outwards, heightened discipline, and inner conviction. While my assessment of New Zealand...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Employers liquidating companies to avoid paying minimum entitlements
    Across the union movement we have seen a number of documented cases now where companies are liquidating their business in order to avoid their legal obligations, in terms of paying the minimum entitlements to their workers. The most recent example...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Carolan : Positively Controversial
    The protest in Auckland last weekend that the NZ Herald claimed was attend by only a hundred people. Labour should set the agenda and purposely do something positively controversial once a week. A good start would be for all their...
    The Daily Blog | 23-07
  • Forest & Bird supports Fish and Game’s freshwater advocacy
    The independent conservation organisation Forest & Bird is concerned over allegations the Fish & Game Council has been threatened over its advocacy for freshwater quality....
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Time for Epsom to say “no deal”
    “Epsom voters will be disgusted by the deal announced today to try and once again gift their electorate to the ACT Party”, says Labour candidate for Epsom Michael Wood....
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Petition for release the of seven Bah
    At the invitation of the Honourable Annette King the New Zealand Bahá'í community is presenting a petition to the House of Representatives asking the NZ government to demand the release of the seven former leaders of the Baha’i community in...
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Capital gains in the capital city
    Victoria University will today be hosting a public debate on the merits of more comprehensive capital gains tax—a step which taxation expert Associate Professor Dr David White considers would be beneficial for New Zealand. Organised by student group Beta Alpha...
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Te Kupenga supports efforts of anti-violence campaigner
    Te Kupenga Whakaoti Mahi Patunga – National Network of Stopping Violence Services (Te Kupenga) wholeheartedly endorses statements made by DJ, Kickboxer and Anti-Violence Campaigner Richie Hardcore this morning on TV3’s Firstline about the role of men...
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • iPredict Ltd2014 Election Update #28
    The chances of a fiscal surplus in 2014/15 continue to plunge and are down to 50%, according to the combined wisdom of the 7000 registered traders on New Zealand’s online predictions market, iPredict. The forecast surplus is now just 0.22%...
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • TPPA is a bad idea
    “Currently New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Brunei, Vietnam, the USA, Japan, Malaysia, Canada, and Mexico are still negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement. Officially talks finished last August, but the reality is that they keep...
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Getting privacy right in our data future
    Privacy Commissioner John Edwards welcomes the release of the New Zealand Data Futures Forum’s report....
    Scoop politics | 28-07
  • Conference on Democracy, Ethics and the Public Good
    Conference on Democracy, Ethics and the Public Good A conference is to be held in Wellington on 1 and 2 August with the aim of starting a NZ-wide discussion about the quality of our democracy. The conference is hosted jointly...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Paddock to plate, and smart roads possible
    New Zealand’s international brand and exports could grow significantly with the creation of a data sharing ‘eco-system’ according to a paper released by the NZ Data Futures Forum today....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Ngapuhi wants to overthrow Maori King
    Ngapuhi is planning a hui for the end of the year – organised by iwi leader David Rankin – in which the future of the King Movement will be discussed....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Housing warrant of fitness little help for sick children
    A housing warrant of fitness has been promoted as a way of preventing sickness among children in poverty. The attached report shows that such a regime would have little impact on health outcomes but would come at a considerable cost,...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Upcoming Fabian Events in Auckland
    Sue Bradford ’s PhD thesis, 'A major left wing think tank in Aotearoa—an impossible dream or a call to action?' looked at why no major left wing think tank has developed in Aotearoa and whether the left in 2010-2013 was...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Senior Citizens, Not Senile Citizens
    The Taxpayers’ Union is questioning the merits and costs of the “ No car? No problem! Getting around your community without a car” brochure, released by the Office for Senior Citizens. The brochure’s purpose is to explain to senior citizens...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • NZ Troops Hone Their Skills in Queensland
    Around 260 New Zealand troops are on a 25-day Australian-led warfighting exercise in Townsville, Northern Queensland....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Maritime Union backs Green Party call for shipping lanes
    The Maritime Union is backing the Green Party’s policy to implement compulsory shipping lanes for coastal shipping, announced today....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Auckland Council Bypasses Public, Ditches Rodeo Ban
    Auckland Council Bypasses Public, Ditches Rodeo Ban The Auckland Council has announced that they are abandoning the rodeo ban on council land, put into place in 2008. This was done with virtually no consultation, says SAFE, the animal advocacy organisation....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Tolley and Coleman urged to meet West Papuan visitor
    Ministers Tolley and Coleman urged to meet West Papuan visitor Police Minister Anne Tolley and Defence Minister Dr Jonathan Coleman have a rare opportunity this week to gain first-hand knowledge about Indonesian police and military activities in West...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Minister Right to Give Fish & Game a Serve
    Reacting to Radio New Zealand’s report concerning allegations that Conservation Minister Nick Smith warned the Fish and Game Council that it acts like a 'rabid NGO', Jordan Williams, Executive Director of the Taxpayers’ Union says:...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Government needs to get Fishing reform bill passed now
    The Maritime Union is urging the Government to push through a Bill reforming the fishing industry....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Ivory trade laws look set to tighten following petition
    A petition mounted by an Auckland schoolteacher has won the support of a powerful Select Committee and has moved the New Zealand closer towards a fully enforceable ivory trading ban....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Bilingual guide a demonstration of leadership
    “Waikato River Restoration: A Bilingual Guide” to the Waikato River that saw Tainui Waikato, Landcare Trust and the Waikato River Authority working together is a demonstration of rangatiratanga or leadership says Race Relations Commissioner...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Georgina Beyer to stand for MANA in Te Tai Tonga
    "It's great to have Georgie on board" said Hone Harawira, MANA Leader and Te Tai Tokerau MP. "She's strong-minded, stands up to be counted, and has fought for the rights of those who haven't had any - and won. That...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Q + A: Sir Bob Harvey
    SUSAN Sir Bob Harvey was behind the transformation of Norm Kirk, and one of New Zealand's most popular Prime Ministers. He also advised Bill Rowling, David Lange and Helen Clark, the latter as Labour Party President. Wild Westie a new...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Q + A: Rod Drury
    Xero boss Rod Drury told TVNZ’s Q+A programme what the political parties are offering at this election is ‘all too small.’ “There's no policy, all it is a bunch of incremental stuff. “All too small. What we want to do...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Q + A: Gerry Brownlee
    Transport Minister Gerry Brownlee Rules Out Fastracking Auckland’s City Rail Loop Transport Minister Gerry Brownlee told TV1’s Q+A programme this morning that he won’t be bringing forward an Auckland City Rail loop based on new figures showing...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Owen interviews Australian Treasurer Joe Hockey
    Lisa Owen interviews Australian Treasurer Joe Hockey Headlines: Australian Treasurer Joe Hockey suggests “we can move on some” changes to welfare for New Zealanders in Australia New Zealanders “brothers and sisters” who make “a massive contribution”,...
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • Flavell and Harawira on The Nation
    Lisa Owen interviews Maori Party leader Te Ururoa Flavell and Mana leader Hone Harawira Headlines: Hone Harawira says realistically his Mana Party can take three Maori seats, Te Ururoa Flavell sticks to prediction that Maori Party will win all seven....
    Scoop politics | 27-07
  • The Nation 26,27 July: Flavell & Harawira, Joe Hockey
    On The Nation this weekend…. With the Maori seats primed to play a pivotal role this election, Torben Akel reports from the key battlegrounds and meets the top contenders. Then the Maori Party co-leader Te Ururoa Flavell and Mana Party...
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Announcement of New Zealand First Candidate for Rangitīkei
    New Zealand First has endorsed Dr Romuald (‘Rom’) Rudzki as the candidate for the Rangitīkei Electorate in the 2014 General Election....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Labour Offer Len Brown a Hotel Tax
    The Taxpayers’ Union is slamming the Labour Party's plan to allow councils to levy new 'pillow taxes' and regional petrol taxes. Reacting to this afternoon’s NZ Herald report Jordan Williams, Executive Director of the Taxpayers’ Union ,...
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Cell phone evidence a first
    Cell phone evidence a first Evidence gathered solely from a cell phone has been used for the first time to convict a Hastings man for possessing child sexual abuse pictures. Michael Lawrence Worsnop, a 29-year-old orchard worker pleaded guilty to...
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • New Zealand Aid Worker Helping in Gaza
    A New Zealand Red Cross nurse working in Gaza says she has never experienced anything like the current conflict in her long aid work career....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Parking officers deserve safety at work
    The union representing the Auckland Transport parking officer severely beaten on July 17 says everyone has a right to go about their job without fear for their safety....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Caritas Aotearoa NZ to provide Gaza humanitarian aid
    Caritas Jerusalem is providing medical assistance, food and other necessities to the thousands of vulnerable people affected by the escalating conflict in Gaza, and Caritas Aotearoa New Zealand is contributing an initial $20,000 to support the humanitarian...
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • ALCP challenges parties to support Charlotte’s Web
    The leader of the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party Julian Crawford is calling on all other political parties to state their position on using cannabis oil to treat pediatric epilepsy....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Oxfam accepts cheque from Pacific Corporation Foundation
    Oxfam New Zealand has accepted a cheque for almost $1000 today from the Pacific Corporation Foundation toward recovery efforts in the Solomon Islands, following April’s flash flooding that left thousands homeless....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Draft report and decision – Pūhoi to Warkworth proposal
    The Ara Tūhono – Pūhoi to Wellsford Road of National Significance: Pūhoi to Warkworth section Board of Inquiry has released its draft report and decision....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • New Zealanders willing to pay tax to protect dolphins
    A report released this week shows a large majority of New Zealanders want Maui’s and Hector’s dolphins protected and they are prepared to pay for it....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Stop Smart Meters
    “The Democrats for Social Credit Party (DSC) wholeheartedly endorses the Stop Smart Meters campaign for a moratorium on installations of smart meters until the technology is proven not be a risk to health, and until home owners are given a...
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Maori Roll Electors Urged to Vote Strategically
    Voters enrolled in the seven Maori electorates must learn to maximize their influence by voting strategically, according to the Maori Party candidate for Te Tai Tokerau, Rev Te Hira Paenga....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Politicians Ignore Families’ Concerns on Street Prostitution
    Family First NZ says that politicians are ignoring the concerns of families, lack the will to take appropriate action, and are happy to drag the ongoing problem of street prostitution into the next parliamentary term....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Plunket celebrates Te Wiki o te Reo Māori
    Plunket is proud to celebrate Te Wiki o te Reo Māori (21-27 July), with Plunket people across the country among several thousand New Zealanders taking part and increasing their kete of knowledge in te reo....
    Scoop politics | 25-07
  • Coleman must quit or be sacked over Dotcom case
    Immigration New Zealand has done the right thing in distancing itself from Jonathan Coleman’s claims that ministers were not aware of FBI involvement in Kim Dotcom’s residency application, says the Internet Party. Internet Party leader Laila Harré...
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • Auckland Councillors, Not Emperors
    25 JULY 2014 Responding to the NZ Herald report that Auckland Councillors have voted to keep their ratepayer-funded business class travel perks, and considered new rules that would have exempted councillors from Auckland City's parking charges, Taxpayers’...
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • Cunliffe Looks Dodgy Lunching with Sex Offender
    Conservative Party Leader Colin Craig says that David Cunliffe's social meeting with a known sex offender while on holiday "looks pretty dodgy."...
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • Taxpayers’ Union Back LGNZ Calls For Greater Transparency
    The Taxpayers’ Union is backing Local Government New Zealand’s calls for the Official Information Act to be extended to cover the Local Government Commission. Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says:...
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • Lecture series to provide insight into 2014 election
    Could National’s refusal to reform MMP lead to the defeat of the government? Is the media providing voters with the information they require to make an informed electoral decision? What directions might John Key’s leadership take if he secures...
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • National Rally Against Factory Farming
    Animal advocates and members of the public all over New Zealand will unite for a ‘National Day of Action Against Factory Farming’ Saturday, tomorrow 26 July in response to two recent exposés that showed horrific conditions on pig factory farms....
    Scoop politics | 24-07
  • Women in Politics Finds Support at Conference
    Women in Politics, a brand-new organisation for New Zealand women in political office, was met with overwhelming support at the 2014 Local Government New Zealand Conference held this weekend in Nelson....
    Scoop politics | 24-07
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