Labour please take note.

71 comments on “Labour please take note. ”

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1. BM 1

   26 May 2014 at 10:57 am

   So, what do you recommend the left does.

   Throw more dirt?, more attacks on Judith Collins?, protests outside John Keys house?

   I know what they should have done but that horse has well and truly bolted.
   • wtl 1.1

     26 May 2014 at 11:00 am

     The recommendation is right there in the post. You are just too dim to understand it.
     • BM 1.1.1

       26 May 2014 at 11:02 am

       So, a continuation of the negative then, suppose that appeals to the labour faithful.
       • wtl 1.1.1.1

         26 May 2014 at 11:04 am

         No, not a continuation of the negative. That isn’t the point of the post. As I said, you are too dim to understand it.
   • KJT 1.2

     26 May 2014 at 11:03 am

     Actually have “left” policies. Like the Greens.

     Though at least Labour has figured out the incredibly destructive reserve bank ACT, is not working for the benefit of New Zealand.

     Crucifying export manufacturing and passing any wage rises along to the banking system, in a vain attempt to slow rising Auckland house prices.

     Though I do not think giving even more money to the financial system, so they can lose it in the next GFC is, the answer.
     • BM 1.2.1

       26 May 2014 at 11:08 am

       I think the real issue with the left is that they have no sales people amongst it’s ranks.

       John Key is a superb salesman, that guy could sell ice to eskimos, the left needs a guy/girl with the same sales skills.

       Labour is just not selling or convincing people that their way is better than Nationals.

       Number one rule in sales.

       Smile and be positive.
       • KJT 1.2.1.1

         26 May 2014 at 11:12 am

         Yeah, just what we need, a convincing con man, like Key????????????
         • BM 1.2.1.1.1

           26 May 2014 at 11:18 am

           Seriously?

           Fucking hell, you guys are beyond help.
           • wtl 1.2.1.1.1.1

             26 May 2014 at 11:23 am

             The other point of the post was that those on the left should ignore ‘help’ from from those on the right, such as yourself.
           • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1.2

             26 May 2014 at 11:23 am

             Yet you still turn up every day. So good of you.
             • greywarbler …

               26 May 2014 at 12:31 pm

               CV
               +1 Such diplomacy, Such irony.
               • Once was Tim …

                 26 May 2014 at 10:35 pm

                 Indeed! Even more ‘ironical’ is the way they appoint political hacks to diplomatic posts in London and NY and elsewhere as rewards, whilst the actual diplomats (versed in diplomacy) get backwaters (like Spain).
                 What’s that expression about somebody not being an [insert title] arsehole?
                 Very good @ CV. You have to wonder why the trollists turn up here day in, day out, (above and below) and why NZ is getting a reputation as a bit of a joke (the pimple on the arse end of the World’s bum)

                 ……..mPHAT lol ….. DiploCorp Ltd.

                 Now there’s something Labour could sink their teeth into for starters.
           • infused 1.2.1.1.1.3

             26 May 2014 at 12:51 pm

             Yes they are.
         • Polish Pride 1.2.1.1.2

           26 May 2014 at 12:58 pm

           Actually BM is right. If you can’t sell your message to voters in this so called system then you might as well pack up and go home.
           I have been watching the message from Labour and the thing that has become crystal clear is that no one with any influence in Labour or that has anything to do with strategy, seems to have the slightest understanding of how to structure a message to voters that would result in a change from the status quo.
           • Paul 1.2.1.1.2.1

             26 May 2014 at 6:59 pm

             Pretty hard to sell if you get no room to deliver the message ann the message is always put through the filter of the corporate media.
             Key would never cope if he had to deal with the obstacles the opposition leaders face.
             But then he’s the corporates am so his message gets delivered with rose tinted spectacles.
         • Tracey 1.2.1.1.3

           26 May 2014 at 3:06 pm

           Why do you want labour to win but wont vote for them?
       • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

         26 May 2014 at 11:28 am

         Bright-sided
         How Positive Thinking is Undermining America

         Being positive about being up shit creek doesn’t get us out of the shit.
         • Polish Pride 1.2.1.2.1

           26 May 2014 at 1:03 pm

           “Being positive about being up shit creek doesn’t get us out of the shit.”

           Correct but identifying ‘pain points’ for your target audience and structuring your message in a way that activates those pain points then providing a viable solution and a clear and comprehensive vision will be far more likely too.

           That said politicians don’t have the skills required to fix the problems we as a society face.
           • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2.1.1

             26 May 2014 at 4:36 pm

             What’s stopping the politicians fixing things is that they’re listening to a) the economists and b) the corporates. Listening to these two bodies ensures that what’s wrong cannot be fixed because both entities consider what’s wrong as being right.

             Basically, the politicians probably have the skills, they don’t have the correct information.
       • Paul 1.2.1.3

         26 May 2014 at 6:56 pm

         I think Key’s job is assisted by a media that acts as the Nats marketing department.
     • Colonial Viper 1.2.2

       26 May 2014 at 11:18 am

       Actually have “left” policies. Like the Greens.

       Well, the Greens are moderately ‘left of centre.’ True left wing policies like full employment, a 40 hour week, and actually free schooling is still beyond even them however.
     • Gosman 1.2.3

       26 May 2014 at 11:42 am

       So why hasn’t the Greens or even the Mana party hoovered up all this support just waiting to be harvested by offering more left wing policies?
       • felix 1.2.3.1

         26 May 2014 at 7:05 pm

         They are. The Green vote is growing with every election.
         • TheContrarian 1.2.3.1.1

           26 May 2014 at 7:44 pm

           That’s true – though it seems to be at a loss to Labour instead of any other party. It could be argued that those already on the left are switching their vote to greens as opposed to the left bloc gaining more members.
           • felix 1.2.3.1.1.1

             26 May 2014 at 8:38 pm

             That may well be true, but isn’t directly relevant to Gos’s question.
           • felix 1.2.3.1.1.2

             26 May 2014 at 8:38 pm

             That may well be true, but isn’t directly relevant to Gos’s question.
             • TheContrarian …

               26 May 2014 at 9:04 pm

               Perhaps so.
2. greywarbler 2

   26 May 2014 at 11:17 am

   KJT Good post. Interesting about NACTs rising with leftie policies. Malingerers those NACTs are. They can do welfare and considerate policy but they won’t unless people make them get off the couch and do some proper work for NZ’s good.

   Just this morning I painted a picture of us all along with Radionz being a hospice for the country, sitting by its bedside administering extreme unction, as it suffers a slow demise from being fed drops of poison continuously. Poor little NZ. Poor us.

   Poor for those who sacrificed themselves in WW1 and WW2, and other war-riors who thought they were working in their own ways to ensure an improving country stayed in the hands of good NZs. We haven’t lost it yet to the relentless neo lib hordes, but it’s a battle with numerous fronts, feints, and confusing propaganda. D-Day is looming, Dunkirk is on and our compatriots in Australia are trying to cross the Ditch and need our help, so there is a lot to think about and do.
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     26 May 2014 at 11:22 am

     Well, Dunkirk was a very capable, competent and lucky retreat with tail between the legs, but we wouldn’t necessarily want a repeat.

     KJT Good post. Interesting about NACTs rising with leftie policies. Malingerers those NACTs are. They can do welfare and considerate policy but they won’t unless people make them get off the couch

     Actually this is what a successful left wing peoples movement does. It forces BOTH National and Labour to swerve to the left.
   • KJT 2.2

     26 May 2014 at 1:06 pm

     The “troops’ made it clear what sort of world they were fighting for in the Desert Parliament in the second world war.
     http://www.alternet.org/media/propaganda-system-has-helped-create-permanent-overclass-over-century-making
     Removing despots and dictators and A better life for themselves and their children.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10879584
     The desert parliament was closed by the army superior officers when it started to come up with” radical notions” like taxing excessive wealth, equality and workers rights.
     • greywarbler 2.2.1

       26 May 2014 at 3:25 pm

       That’s very interesting KJT. About the parliament. I can imagine that that would have been as worrying as the game of soccer at Christmas in World War 1. The whole thing might have stopped then and everyone gone home before the gallant men could proceed the proper war and fight and die of gangrene in the trenches.

       But the Alternet starts on the suspect all social engineering stuff that I have come to connect to religious nuts and conspiracy theorists. So while I think it makes many good points it starts to take a reverse reds under the beds approach.
3. Will@Welly 3

   26 May 2014 at 11:59 am

   I do tend to agree with B. M. Labour is failing to get traction in getting it’s message across.
   It doesn’t need a shithouse like John Key, but it needs a more united front. David Cunliffe needs the support of all of his caucus.
   National is bereft of ideas so yes it will pinch everything the opposition puts up.
   Key & co have manipulated a shift in the ideological thinking of this country to the right in their time in office. Labour need to seriously strategize themselves to beat National.
   We cannot afford another 3 years of National. They have dug us into a hole, any deeper, and it will take more than a generation to get out of. That is not pain, that is misery, that leaves a lifetimes of unfilled promises – those who lived through the ‘Great Depression’ knew the misery that came with the poverty and wrecked lives – the same world John Key is leading us all too.
4. captain hook 4

   26 May 2014 at 12:10 pm

   Well one thing Labour never did was hand the education system over to a gang of loudmouthed infantilised bullies who wouldnt know a verb from a prepostion. These people only want to get salaries for themselves and National is doing their best to accomodate them at the expense of the whole system..
   • greywarbler 4.1

     26 May 2014 at 12:29 pm

     cp’n hook
     They might know a herb from a proposition though yet perhaps I wonder.
5. Tracey 5

   26 May 2014 at 12:24 pm

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/10084900/NZ-economy-facing-multi-billion-dollar-hit
   • Bearded Git 5.1

     26 May 2014 at 12:32 pm

     Yep Tracey as the article says a drop to $6.50 per kg milk solid looks likely. In NZ dollar terms the farm gate price of milk solids has actually dropped around 30% since the start of the year.

     The strong dollar is not helping at all. Time for Labour to make some noise about this.
     • Tracey 5.1.1

       26 May 2014 at 1:14 pm

       it will be labours fault
6. Brendon Harre 6

   26 May 2014 at 12:31 pm

   One aspect of the Budget that the left haven’t picked up on is that the election bribes were actually quite small. Over the next electoral term the government budget surplus is forecasted to rise significantly.

   Key has stated while discussing the budget that National would look at tax cuts of an unspecified amount. So while the media is claiming National is all centrist in actuality Key is setting himself up for a right wing move when elected!

   If Key wins the election he will say he has a mandate for tax cuts. Other than specific spending promises the surplus will be spent on tax cuts for the rich. This is what he did with Cullen’s surplus in 2008 and he will do it again….
   • KJT 6.1

     26 May 2014 at 1:10 pm

     Assuming that Treasury predictions are correct.??

     Which they have not been in living memory.

     The laugh is, if it wasn’t so serious, is that our economy now depends on printed US dollars, that have been paid to China for consumer goods, buying up our milk powder and land.
7. shorts 7

   26 May 2014 at 12:34 pm

   As we near the election I believe Labour and the other ‘left’ parties need to back away from acting like the opposition, trying to hold the govt to account,and move to a setting of acting like a govt in waiting – push policy in clear, short and simple phrases.

   Move away from trying to bring down collins et al down, unless it can be done in a way that is short, quick and understandable – the longer some stories play out the worse the opposition looks, the informed part of the population get it… move on or the nasty party bollocks stands to sound true to the dip and out news watchers (masses)

   Acknowledge Nat’s policy that is “left wing” et al and explain why or what they’d do to go further and why these policies are important – free whatever is great for nabbing votes, explaining why (and how that translate to the parties philosophy) is how you keep those votes over subsequent elections

   And most importantly – be confident, don’t be afraid to be left wing, be proud and focus on the parties strengths – give us reason to vote and be confident in that voting choice

   Lastly and most importantly – ignore those on the right… they are not friends, allies or GC’s…
8. Jim 8

   26 May 2014 at 12:56 pm

   The main stream polls have on average have in the past over estimated the National Party vote by about 3%, so even these latest polls show that things are neck and neck. It is still likely that NZ First will decide the balance of power.
   I note that Key stated in his speech at the Nact conference over the weekend that they will in the lead up to the election announce a significant amount of policy. Labour has significant gapes in its policy to date, particularly for beneficiaries.
   In my view as yet unannounced policy, the leaders debates, and labour mobilising its membership to optimise their vote, will decide this election.
9. McGrath 9

   26 May 2014 at 1:23 pm

   National wants Labour to keep talking about the GCSB, Collins, Dotcom, and other negative stuff. Negativity doesn’t win elections despite the headlines they generate.
   • Tracey 9.1

     26 May 2014 at 4:15 pm

     yea there was no negative rhetoric from nact in 2007 and 2008
     • DS 9.1.1

       26 May 2014 at 4:47 pm

       To be fair, NACT at that point had the media to attack Labour. They themselves could concentrate on formulating a cuddly “centrist” image.
   • fender 9.2

     26 May 2014 at 10:40 pm

     Key likes talking about the GCSB too. Strange really as he usually says he doesn’t comment on operational matters..
     • Stuart Munro 9.2.1

       27 May 2014 at 1:11 pm

       Yeah – Key thinks he’s Bond. Roger Moore maybe.
       • fender 9.2.1.1

         27 May 2014 at 1:22 pm

         That’s rather kind, he seems more like Johnny English to me… 😉
   • Colonial Viper 9.3

     26 May 2014 at 11:21 pm

     National wants Labour to keep talking about the GCSB, Collins, Dotcom, and other negative stuff

     What an odd perspective you have

     You’d probably consider child poverty, youth unemployment and Christchurch rebuild problems as “negative stuff” as well. Best to avoid all the difficult topics then eh?
10. Ant 10

    26 May 2014 at 2:42 pm

    It’s damn late but how about Labour actually release more good policies, ‘keeping the powder dry’ seems like a failed strategy that never really works, of course you just hold some good ones in backup for the campaign proper, but jesus give people some options here…

    It’s like they do a few good things in parts like with best start, monetary policy, but they aren’t being put in context with a larger package and then other fuck it up by scoring own goals. Labour then go back in their shells. They should be constantly showing new policy packages in full to the point where its not possible for National to copy them.

    They better get cracking quick.

    Families
    Housing
    Health
    Environment
    Transport
    Jobs

    Have a policy package with clear goals, how hard is it ffs. Instead they do it backward-ass releasing individual policies hodgepodge and you have to be a politics junkie following closely the whole time to piece it together and see the bigger picture.
    • Anne 10.1

      26 May 2014 at 2:53 pm

      Yep, they made such a good job of “keeping the powder dry” last time, nobody got to know what the policies were until after the election was over.
      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        26 May 2014 at 2:55 pm

        Keeping the powder dry and keeping Goff off all the signs around town were the strategies of the previous Labour campaign strategy team. Most of whom are still around.
        • Anne 10.1.1.1

          26 May 2014 at 6:43 pm

          They may be still around but I doubt they have much influence. Matt McCarten holds the levers of power now and if anyone can pull it off in such a short period of time he can.

          Why oh why wasn’t he appointed six months ago…
11. Tracey 11

    26 May 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Given the behaviour of stalin, including killing millions of people, why is it bad to call nact facistsbut calling the greens commies is passe?
    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      26 May 2014 at 3:35 pm

      Fascist is quite an over-used and broad term; in NZ I think we should save it for the occasions which really demand it.

      BTW in terms of social harm done, the 4th Labour Govt was far more damaging to the fabric of NZ communities than the English/Key government has been. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – we are way lucky to have this current Tory government instead of the ones headed by Abbott, Cameron, or Harper.

      Also of course (and as you know) the Greens aren’t commies. They are a mainstream pro-capitalist pro-business party. (just a slightly different form of capitalism, with slightly different types of business being favoured). Not communist or socialist at all. Just some flavour of moderate social democracy.
      • Tracey 11.1.1

        26 May 2014 at 4:14 pm

        I cant recall the last time facist came out of a politicians mouth… or those commenting on behalf of the left….

        commie on the other hand
        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1

          26 May 2014 at 4:58 pm

          Well its just silly name calling trying to hark back to the dancing cossacks. Put it this way… a lot of NZ socialists and communists considered the first Labour Government under Savage to be a capitalist sell out to big business.

          What is quite interesting is how people/politicians on the Left are so scared of being labelled “commie” or whatever. Firstly, it’s not true and just displays the ignorance of the person using the term. Secondly, what a great teaching moment for explaining what modern democratic socialism might look like.
          • Anne 11.1.1.1.1

            26 May 2014 at 6:48 pm

            What is quite interesting is how people/politicians on the Left are so scared of being labelled “commie” or whatever.

            And the reason why isn’t so much political as social . They want to be seen as socially acceptable by the so called high and mighty in this country. That’s why we have Labour caucus members who have moved to the right of where they used to be when they first entered parliament.
    • JAK 11.2

      26 May 2014 at 7:35 pm

      Many people died of starvation, wounds or disease while Stalin was dictator of the Soviet Union

      Stalin did not “kill millions of people” but is held accountable by some for millions of deaths

      It is bad to call Nacts fascists because it is misleading – fascist regimes have so far failed to create stable and enduring governments

      The Greens are commies, in the sense that their programme is perceived as subverting society (by exalting the non-human world)
      • karol 11.2.1

        26 May 2014 at 7:48 pm

        Interesting definition of “commies” there. Where’d you come by that?
        • KJT 11.2.1.1

          26 May 2014 at 8:16 pm

          Some peoples minds are fascinating. The lack of comprehension and cognitive dissonance.

          Russia was democratic and communist, for all of two weeks before the Dictators took over.
        • Anne 11.2.1.2

          26 May 2014 at 8:24 pm

          Interesting all round.

          Well, I guess a lot of people did die under Stalin. After all, he was in power for a hell of a long time. Even so, you’re right, Stalin didn’t kill millions of people. He just organised others to do it for him.

          The National Party got into power by spending millions of dollars and telling lies. They are still in power by spending millions of dollars and telling lies. I seem to remember that is what the fascists did in the 30s and lots of people fell for it. Not that I’m suggesting the Nats a fascists in the same sense as the 30s.

          As for the Greens… I didn’t know that humans are not part of the Earth’s natural environment. Do tell us where we came from because it sounds fascinating.

          I feel truly enlightened by JAK’s contribution.
12. Populuxe1 12

    26 May 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Basically it’s fairly obvious that the electoral rump are keen on social justice, but they’re not keen on being talked down to, told they can’t have nice things, mud slinging, or identity politics. Labour did get the memo, but seemed to think that a move to centre involved becoming ghastly neoliberal scum. Methinks it is indeed entirely about presentation, the substance was fine.
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      26 May 2014 at 3:38 pm

      I agree with your analysis of the electorate.
13. George 13

    26 May 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Agreed, entirely.

    Get together with the Greens, announce some good policy, and tell people that you are going to be the next left-wing government of New Zealand.
14. seeker 14

    26 May 2014 at 7:06 pm

    I thought at first that National had done something good by bringing in free medical care for under thirteen year olds. But of course it was too good to be true, their hard hearts hadn’t thawed – this admirable provision does not come in until July 2015!!!!! .

    How many children may become extremely ill or even die because it was not this July and their parents could not afford to take them to the doctor?.

    How cynical and twisted of National to use children for their salesmanship of themselves. If they had really been thinking of the children they would have planned ahead for this policy and had it up and running as a necessity immediately. Instead they just use it as a cynical marketing ploy.

    NOT admirable and certainly not honourable BM. Not a salesmanship I would want to have anything to do with. In my opinion you bring shame on yourself day in
    day out by backing this shifty group of so called humans.
    Neither Labour nor the Greens nor Mana nor even NZ First would use such a ploy by the way,
15. bad12 15

    26 May 2014 at 7:47 pm

    Consider this, the Best Start program from Labour was probably the most applauded so far of Labour’s policy releases, i will couple that with the proposed 24 weeks of paid parental leave when the babies arrive, am i wrong in suggesting the above,???,

    IF as i think i am, right in suggesting the above, then the ‘extent’ of the messaging is all wrong, for all i know David Cunliffe may well have been up and down the country attending meetings where He is discussing those particular programs every day of the week, BUT, what have we heard of them since their initial announcement, not a hell of a lot i would suggest,

    SO, by ‘extent’ of messaging we can see that after the initial weeks sugar rush of the initial announcement Labour have either gone lazy on promoting Best Start, or worse, let the ‘wing-nuts’ criticism of the program cower them into silence about it,

    There is a big question here, where it really matters did Everyone hear the message, in this little country with serious divisions of wealth/earnings those with the least are less likely to (a) buy and read a newspaper, (b), listen to serious news on a radio, and (c) switch channels when the mind numbing TV news hour is broadcast,

    SO, on a positive program like Best Start Labour i would suggest need not go into its shell as it seems to have over what seemed to be a lack of traction, Labour need to amp up the volume,

    Trumped by National over the budget announcement of Paid Parental Leave, so goes the broadcast narrative, again Labour need to crank up the volume, Trumped my arse, Labour’s Paid Parental Leave is far more generous than that proposed by National and although it seems slightly petty to express this that difference should be hammered by Labour pointing out how miserable Nationals proposal is,

    There’s lots i don’t like about Labour Policy and haven’t been shy previously about expressing this, there are tho two things glaringly obvious to me the first being to have any form of Government of the left Labour have to poll well in September so overt criticism of actual Labour policy at this point is counter productive, the second, Labour politicians have what seems like an innate inbuilt ability to ignore what to many of us seems to be the obvious, personally after banging on about such things like State Housing and the proposal to raise the retirement age until even i am thoroughly sick of writing and reading the shit i have all but given up pointing out what i see as that obvious as there’s plenty of other stuff to occupy my little mind with…
16. captain hook 16

    26 May 2014 at 8:22 pm

    the public are just about fed up with key.
    and his cronies.
    dont blink or you will miss it and poooof** he will be gone.
17. Skinny 17

    26 May 2014 at 8:57 pm

    In my opinion the single biggest issue Labour & Greens face is a dumbed down electorate.

    On this cold night I just reviewed my power bill via email. Yes and just like every other household, I’m getting bloody torched by my power supplier thanks to ‘Brighter Future’ for the wealthy few Key-National.

    Interestingly I caught a snippet on tv3 news, where Cunliffe was reported to be having a crack at Immigration. Yes that’s right one of the few popular Kiwi hits, one that Peters milks every election.

    Attack ‘them’ you know their not ‘us’ damn migrants who rob us of our Kiwiness. The Left might as well, afterall NACT trot out benefit, Maori, Criminal, Union bashing. We all know its good music to the ears of 30 odd percent of the voters.
    • Kiwiri 17.1

      26 May 2014 at 9:10 pm

      My workmate has signed up to Grey Power Electricity and I am considering switching:

      http://greypowerelectricity.co.nz/

      Generally, lower rates, guaranteed pricing for five years. They are with Pulse, majority NZ-owned. They send someone around to read the meters (keeps another job) and do not use the smart meter transmission device thingy.

      Signing up requires $20 (single) or $30 (couple) membership with Grey Power: no age restrictions – http://greypower.co.nz/.

      I don’t get a commission. For more info, use Google or see, for eg:
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11210020
18. Dale 18

    26 May 2014 at 9:52 pm

    KJT,exports are way since 2008. The balance of trade is well in your favour. As an expat living in Perth I look at NZ with envious eyes.
    • KJT 18.1

      27 May 2014 at 3:59 pm

      Billions in balance of payments deficit, despite the best commodity export returns ever.

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