Anyone saying there are plenty of jobs, people are just to snobby (ie lazy) to take them, has to explain why 90,000 people suddenly got lazy between 2008 and 2009 as 80,000 jobs disappeared.
I think we have previously established that unemployment was rising sharply in the declining period of the Clark led Labour Government so it is a bit disingenuous to claim that it happened as soon as John Key took office.
However even that doesn’t detract from the fact that I haven’t seen any person on the right actually argue that the reason people are unemployed is purely down to them ALL being lazy bludgers. Perhaps someone could link to someone making this claim?
If people can’t find someone making this claim then the central idea behind this article is a straw man argument. Congratulations on creating one of those and effectively countering it. For your next trick I expect you to state that Right wingers believe up is actually down and how this too is just crazy talk.
Wrong again. I’m intrigued that a spin-tool like yourself isn’t familiar with the old tory technique of “targetting” a few “lifestyle” beneficiaries, while restricting the entitlements of a whole bunch of “worthy poor” as collateral damage. E.g. Pete George the other day.
The fact is that there aren’t enough jobs, therefore unemployment protection is necessary and not an option. And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
That post by Pete George is more supportive of my point than yours. He just stated that he knew of SOME beneficiaries who choose to be beneficiaries not that ALL beneficiaries choose to be beneficiaries. You may disagree with his position on this but it doesn’t provide evidence that right leaning people are trying to argue that the increase in unemployment is due to more people becoming lazy bludgers.
But it does support the argument that if there are no jobs out there, and that all the unemployed-centred “encourage them back into work” bullshit is just bullshit. If the government wants to cut the number of beneficiaries, bullying the unemployed will have less of a result than, oh, investing in education and infrastructure, buying locally, and not laying off public service staff.
Ensuring a viable productive economy and a flexible labour market is probably the best for reducing unemployment on a long term sustainable basis. You may disagree, which is your right, but other people do think this. They are the ones in power at the moment. Next time the left is in power they might attempt something along the lines you are suggesting. I choose to ignore the rest of your emotive laden post.
We can’t get emotive about under-producing economic units.
What possible basis can you have for believing that the government is really trying to solve unemployment? Just how much are you going to blame on the GFC, when we’ve started (since, oh, 2008/9) sliding down the performance charts of the OECD?
Meanwhile, unmatured potential economic units cease to function.
Overall productivity has been consistently rising for decades not just here but world-wide, and New Zealand is still a very flexible place to be an exployer compared to the rest of the OECD. If productivity and flexibility were all it took to increase available employment opportunities, we’d be having a jobs boom already, and it would be completely unrelated to changes in governments or other economic factors. I think we can both accept that the economy is more complicated than that, and at the very least we can agree to concede that it has natural cycles, (booms and busts) and is composed of several tugs of war between employers and labour in general, and more complicated relations between consumers and retailers and industries, and the impact of available information to each party.
The fact is, average productivity (in contrast with overall productivity, which is steadily rising) is actually inversely correlated with high demand for labour, simply because as the demand for workers increases, employers have to settle for less productive employees, who they fire when demand for labour decreases. Low productivity is ironically a sign of a healthy labour market, not because productivity is bad, but because universal employment drags down productivity figures.
To reduce unemployment, circulation needs to increase. Policies that create extra employment, or otherwise equalize the distribution of wealth to some degree, increase circulation and generate demand, which in turn prompts businesses to increase supply, which in turn prompts them to hire additional employees, which prompts them to demand more services and products from other businesses, and so on. You know what doesn’t help that process at all? Employer fleibility and productivity. In fact, productivity generally decreases the need to employ additional people because all of the available work is done.
Talking about viable economics, low the high income inequality would boost both the economy and lower unemployment. Given both Labour and National inability to discuss the effects of increasing oil prices on the economy, business is left in limbo and risk adverse. National would like its voters to believe selling assets won’t harm the deficit but anyone with a clue knows that’s not true. NZ exports its skilled, its profits, and raw resources, when we should be keeping our skilled, our profits and adding value (introducing a CGT). But National are biblically sret against any tax increases unless its on the poorest, unbalanced and unfair GST rises.
National have no idea how to run an economy, one National voter on TV actually thought that pushing single mums into fruit picking and replacing desperate pacific islanders was a real reality. WTF. Just as passing economic analysis shows that is wrong, its always going to be cheaper to hire desperate foriegners froma pacific Island chain (like Australia does to NZ citizens). And more so with some pacific islanders who have no work, no other opportunities and no baby (or home to heat).
National voters know little about economics if they repeat anything a politician says without thought.
And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
Do you think no pressure at all should be put on beneficiaries to improve their edication or get work? (Labour tried to ‘encourage’ people off benefits before National started trying).
Option 3: actually give them educational and employment opportunities that will allow them to participate in society, not bully them into becoming grist for the mill.
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there. Some could be done better, but anyone can get education if they want it.
Creating ’employment opportunities’ is election talk. No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Do you think doubling public service employment would solve it?
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there.
Should be but aren’t.
I was watching telly the other day and they had an engineering course targeted at disadvantaged youths – applicants outnumbered places by something like four or five to one.
Universities and polytechs are not exactly running out of students.
No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
Some do better than others. Seems to be those ones that actually foster industry, health and education, rather than speculators.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Nope, not ones that dovetail ludditism and good old fashioned sexism, anyway. Why the apostrophes around women becoming equal (more precisely, women becoming recognised as equal)?
Doubling the public service wouldn’t solve it, but culling the public sector doesn’t help.
Oh now I get it, you’re in politics because you have no understanding of other people’s lives and the real interaction between classes. Makes it pretty easy to say things like “anyone can get education”. Oh sure Pete, the world is so rational and caring and giving. Then you go on to spell out a possible solution, but can’t see it, because you’re holding so tightly to a model that strokes your control dysfunction, but doesn’t work in reality.
When’s you next banning due. I can’t believe you’re so old and so dumb, clearly you are a remorseless troll. Then again, those emails yesterday of rural types imploring Key to let them remain ignorant were quite instructive that a person can be eagerly ignorant for over 50 years. Who’s paying the bill for your eager ignorance, Pete? Unlike those collecting social security, the welfare you are taking has the opposite effect of being either social or secure. Get an education- anyone can – or hurry up and “retire”.
[lprent: Banning is something that the moderators decide. I have banned people for insistently calling for a ban. It falls under the “boring the moderators” or “wasting moderation time” categories. ]
Nobody’s asking for zero unemployment right now. I think we’d settle for policies that lowered the figures by a few percentage points this year, in addition to any natural upturn that might happen.
Doubling public service employment would certainly solve the problem, but we’d need to actually have some sort of productive program for that, because the whole point of stimulating the economy with government employment is that you still have people doing productive work for the government on top of the economic gain in general. Doubling the public service would probably be too much stimulus, I would imagine, and there’d be no way to find enough productive work for that many people. Even a twenty percent expansion would be bold start.
But in more staff-neutral terms, we could make significant headway by simply cutting out third-parties from government employment and having the government run its own temping agency, for instance, and stop engaging in this “contracting out” nonsense to get around its own employment laws. We ship an extraordinary amount of money out from the government by contracting out in areas like HR where it just doesn’t make any sense to do so, and the government could provide the services itself with better efficiency, as it wouldn’t need to make a profit.
When there was plenty of work and benefits were relatively a lot higher than they are now, very few people chose benefits.
The Prime Minister reckoned he knew all the unemployed by name.
The big number of people on benefits are there simply because the RWNJ neo-liberals stuffed our economy. They wanted a pool of unemployed to help drive wages down.
The current meanness towards beneficiaries is simple to scare all of us into accepting starvation wages and dog whistle to the unintelligent to cover NACT’s economic ineptitude. The same tactics used by another lot of Fascists in the past.
And then you quote lazy ‘myths’. I’ve had a bit of a look before, some of the detail is interesting but the questions are little more than exaggerated loaded nonsense.
1. Anyone who wants to get off welfare can get a job.
Many can and do. Obviously some can’t, for various reasons eg not enough jobs available, unemployable.
2. People on welfare commit a lot of benefit fraud, at the expense of hard-working people
Yes, some people (a small minority) do that.
3. Putting a time limit on how long people can receive welfare is a good idea
How many think that? About three?
4. People who go off on the dole go onto sickness and invalids benefits. We have to crack down on them, too.
A few do that. ‘People’ sort of implies all which is nonsense.
5. Most of the people on welfare are unmarried mothers – many of them teenagers – who have extra children so that they can get more money.
Obvious dramatic exaggeration.
6. Lots of people are on welfare for years and years, and then their children and grandchildren become welfare dependent.
Depends on what you mean by ‘lots’. Too many – yes. But a small minority.
7. Making unemployment insurance compulsory would be a good idea.
How many people think that? I don’t recall seeing it discussed.
8. People on welfare are bludging on the rest of us.
In effect a minority are, but ‘people’ is meant to sort of imply all which is nonsense.
9. Young people need welfare reform in order to teach them the value of work.
Nonsense – who thinks that? The best teachers of the value of work are parents and wider family, by example. Welfare reform may encourage or nudge some young people to find out the value of work for themselves.
10. Thank goodness the Maori Party is at the Cabinet table, to ensure the genuine needs of Maori are being met.
A political dig at the end. That’s been called a ‘myth’?
1. “Some people get off the unemployment benefit” is not the same as “anybody can get off the unemployment benefit if they try”. Some people are legitimately unemployable, some people need additional resources to become employed that they don’t have enough social resources to acquire, and some people are simply unemployed because the economy is too depressed for them to be a worthwhile bet for an employer right now. The vast majority of those people couldn’t get off the unemployment without spending more money on helping them.
And you know what? You shouldn’t have to be exceptional to get out of unemployment, you should need to be exceptional to require it, if we had a healthy society. Anything above 3% is not even arguably an exception, and ideally we should have less than 1% of the workforce drawing the benefit for more than a month at a time.
2. The minority of people who abuse benefits is so small that measures that are already in place can deal with them. We should be more concerned with the fact that it’s not possible to eat healthily on the benefit and afford accommodation at the same time.
3. Time-limiting benefits is just a more extreme version of the other sticks that the Right wants to offer beneficiaries. Sometimes it’s not a matter of sticks or carrots, sometimes you just need support to get into employment. People want to be productive, they want to feel involved, they want the things that meaningful employment (ie. not McJobs) offer, so the carrot is there intrinsically. We just need to stop dangling it from the stick over their heads and actually put it in reach.
4. So you agree we don’t need to crack down on people who go onto sickness or invalids benefits from the dole? Because as I see it they’re pretty hard to qualify for as-is and unlikely to be a point of abuse.
5. Sure, but it’s a significant portion of the complaining about benefits, too. I’m not sure you get to complain about people quoting back to you what people are actually saying- and as far as single mothers on benefits are concerned, that’s a pretty mild paraphrasing. And yes, I understand that this is getting into the foggy areas of personal experience rather than factual debate.
6. Sure, too many. But actual dependency on welfare is a symptom of a great many social problems, and it makes sense to deal with the causative factors before we actually think about increasing pressure on beneficiaries, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t think anyone would claim that long-term beneficiaries don’t need policy to address them- the debate is about how legally mandating people to get jobs possibly helps them when we’ve already established they either can’t or won’t in their current situation, and I would argue the answer is “overall it does more harm than good.”
8. Undeniably there are a few people who do this, but the question is whether they’re worth any additional energy to deal with. I don’t think so- it’s an incredibly low return on investment to follow them up directly when you could actually look at the root causes of the need for welfare.
9. I’ve met people who think that. They’re fortunately a significant minority, but they do exist, and I get very embarassing praise from them for having found my way into being a “young professional”, (by which they mean I get paid more than minimum wage and need to wear business clothes to work, despite needing to work six days a week to save anything significant) even though they don’t know I spent multiple years dealing with a severe anxiety disorder in which I couldn’t work.
(I was supported by my parents, so I didn’t actually claim the benefit at the time- which is yet more proof that being stuck on a benefit is a symptom of lacking other resources to fall back on more than some sort of intrinsic failing)
The RWNJ’s are right. Bob Jones, for example, is on record as saying that when National forms a government, he changes his strategy to a low growth model.
There is a direct correlation between the National Party and a slower work rate in the economy. The RWNJ’s are still missing the point though – they think laziness causes the problem, but the problem is their understanding of economics is a little bit shit.
I’m not so sure you can say there is a change to the entire system just because of one example. In my opinion, what Bob Jones says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Your point is well made though Kotahi Tane Huna, people simply don’t work as hard when they’re earning less. You really do get what you pay for and if you’re a smart investor, you take your money out of the NZ economy when the Natz get into power. They’re not to be trusted.
The irony though Kotahi Tane Huna is that the likes of Bob Jones expect to make more income under a Labour led govt. Exactly the opposite of how Labour sells itself to it’s supporters…..
But sure…. lets vote in a govt that’s better for the wealthy … just pretend it’s best for the little guy and lets make the wealthy …. well wealthier….
BS Burt labour is better for everybody god with your dumb logic no wonder your a National supporter so what you’ve been saying up till now that labour is bad for wealth creatos is just a figment of your imagination.
Like gooseman you have been caught out!
Superannuation was paid to 535 300 people in the 2011 year. This is 12.75% of the population and really not very high by any stretch of the imagination.
NZ should be investing in manufacturing of products derived from its prime products, i.e. wood, wool. It is tragic that whole logs are being shipped offshore and all we need to do is get diesel for the chainsaw. Plastics and Textile imports are the largest growth items between 2005 and 2010 mostly from China. Milk powder, butter and cheese export has increased by around 80% and logs by around 33%.Except for crude oil no other area is significant in exports.
The biggest problem hidden in the figures are the number of under 25s out of work (or in “tronning”), I would hazard that over half of the under 25s have no “real” prospect of a “good” job. This is a form of inter generational theft. There is a call for the age of superannuation to rise, so the older workers have to stay longer…..which means the younger ones will have to wait longer. The thinking behind this is either warped or very self serving.
Where is the evidence that a lower retirement age has a big impact on youth unemployment? Certainly if we look at the countries in Europe with a lower age of retirement I would suggest we would tend to find that Youth unemployment rates are the same, or even higher, than those countries with a higher average age of retirement. Your argument smacks of the same logical fallacy that some conservatives use for discouraging women in the workforce.
Gos, I need very little evidence that if I add work to one age cohort (like an extra year) that work is not going to be available to another age cohort. Nothing is more obvious. And to make matters worse I have little faith that an extra years work will be available to that age cohort either.
Whether that work is “available” or able to be undertaken by another age cohort is entirely another issue. What it screams to me is that whilst there is a youth employment crisis the politicians and Treasury are focused firmly on the wrong age cohort.
Especially this sentence “Governments had tried in the past to reduce youth unemployment by enticing older workers to retire, but had failed, partly because they had to raise labor taxes to pay for the extended pensions. Employers were not amused.”
Merely pointing out that you are habitually arrogance rich, but evidence light. Although this bit made me laugh.
“I won’t deny that there would probably be some increase in unemployment as a result of extended working lives, but that would just be a temporary factor as the labor market adjusts,” Kirby said.
When
is an increase not an increase? When an economist says it’s a “temporary factor”.
When I am asked to provide evidence for anything I have made a claim for I tend to provide it or at least provide a source for it. A good example of that is that list of links to various papers on the benefits of economic freedom for economic growth. You might disagree with the links but then again I tend to disagree with your sources as well. You also missed my linking to an IMF paper on Belgium which refers to the same fallacy that is mentioned briefly in the editorial you are commenting on.
Meh – saw it. My point was that on the one hand you were criticising someone for not providing evidence when they made a claim at the same time as doing the same thing.
But then of course you missed the wee comment in your own source that essentially contradicts it and your position (albeit a “temporary” contradiction). Of course, you have a history of failing to read your own sources.
Your temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion. The IMF paper goes into greater detail about the fallacy that Bored is promoting. If you care to discuss this then go ahead. If you want to try and score petty debating points go ahead and waste your time once again.
temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion.
Gos, it was your source that brought it up.
As for the IMF report:
We subdivide the population into three subgroups: the older workers (50–65 years of age), the prime-aged workers (30–49) and the young (20–29). The precise cutoff points between these different groups are clearly of a key importance and mostly dictated by the institutional setting. Since in Belgium education is compulsory until the age of 18 and data is generally available in 5-year age brackets, we do not consider any 5-year age bracket including people subject to compulsory schooling. Therefore, the lowest age considered is the age of 20
Not entirely sure 28 counts as particularly “young” in the employment market. Especially when they skipped the firest two years of post-school employment history (for reasons that are basically odd), even though they identified school-industry mismatch as a cause of youth unemployment.
You asked for evidence supporting my claim that Bored’s comments were a fallacy. I provided that evidence. Whether you agree with the evidence or not is irrelevant to me. Bored hasn’t even bothered to counter this, just restate his position as if it is commonly accepted as a fact. It obviously isn’t as there wouldn’t be a fallacy named for it.
So now you’ll only accept criticism of sources (that you link to only upon request, and that you frequently fail to read yourself) from those people who aren’t particularly interested in getting into a semantic debate with a slippery propogandist?
slick.
Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot you’d be all to eager to crow objectionably, not to mention subsequently insisting that no evidence had been provided…
If someone posted a link to something that I disagreed with I don’t think I would state they haven’t provided any evidence. I might state something like, (if it is an opinion piece), that the evidence is not very persuassive or is flawed or that it isn’t hard evidence
Pity that reality contradicts your claims that economic freedom benefits economic growth.
The fastest growing economies have always had Government intervention, assistance and regulation. And the highest taxes!
“The idea that forcing elderly workers out of the labor market before the statutory age of
retirement would provide jobs for the unemployed young has been for a long time widely
accepted in several European countries, particularly in Belgium where indeed youth
unemployment is particularly high both in absolute and in relative terms. For most
economists and fortunately an increasing number of Belgian this view is based on the
erroneous belief in a fixed amount of work. Economists call this allegedly widespread view
the “lump of labor fallacy”.”
For once Gossy is correct
More people working grows consumption, the economy and allows more jobs. More State employment grows, not shrinks, the private sector.
Gossy has just contradicted his own previous positions, generally supporting those who think that austerity and small government are economically beneficial. The Laffer curve is also a result of the “lump of Labour, lump of capital fallacy.
State spending needs to be underpinned by the productive sector and constatly increasing it is not self sustaining over the long term. Eventually you just end up borrowing more and more to fund unproductive expenditure. You just need to look at the problems in Greece to see the outcome of this. The only solutions in this case are either debt default, inflating your way out of trouble (including devaluation of currency), or severe Governement cut backs (i.e. austerity).
By the way it is interesting to see a sort of bastardised version of Keynesian being promoted here.
Bored, having so many people under 25 out of work – these are University degree holders and NZ has only a small pool of jobs suited to that skill level. Many jobs are customer service, help desk and manual, part time and seasonal work. The pay is not going to cover living costs and paying back the student loan. Besides, one does not study for years to pick apples (not that there is something wrong with that). Many will go overseas looking for greener pastures and NZ is the poorer for it. As for the retirement age – there maybe people who want to work longer (never met any) but there are many who have to work longer as they still pay mortgage, help with grand kids or are on single income. So, all in all it looks like we are slowly becoming a very poor country.
Right on there Foreign Waka. But NACTs are unlikely to think about the country and economy in any useful, meaningful way that would bring such practical considerations to the fore for implementation.
I recently spent time with some RW. Not a book about the place, no newspapers which might spread round untidily. Lots of interest in Breakfast TV and the bright coloured mannikins that appear there giving the junk news. No RadioNZ reporting and analysis, only Coast with endlessly pleasant music and limited advertisements to provide ‘wallpaper for the ears’ as Peter Ustinov remarked about elevator music.
It’s frightening to know that so much power is held in the hands of these smug people in their cloistered ivory towers, looking with disdain on the unsatisfactory plebs below. The strugglers and the non-achievers are the labels applied to those not regarded as worthwhile human beings at all.
Why? Disappointed you didn’t find the complete works of Ayn Rand on the bedside table? I really don’t like this kind of attack because ultimately you can say exactly the same things of a lot of poor working people, the “strugglers and the non-achievers” – not always groanoing bookshelves in their homes either. Attack a person’s views, philosophy and politics if you must, but it seems a bit mean spirited to attack their taste in home entertainment.
I remember going to work in the Uni holidays of 1975 and walking down a street in Sydenham calling into every factory en route asking for work. I worked 2 days for one place before deciding that the boss was an out of control maniac, so I went next door and asked for a job cutting up meat. We worked to a Union award and there was a group bonus, the Union man and the foreman drove this mercilessly so there was no slacking. Good money was paid, but you had to earn it, and I don’t recall any slackers or absentees.
The point of the above is that when we had full employment we also had good wages, and we had very little need of welfare. And compulsory unionism meant there was some balance between employers and employees. Most importantly people were demonstrably NOT lazy. Any form of perceived bludging was frowned upon from all quarters.
Funny thing, back in the 70s the National Party maintained a narrative that described workers as lazy. They also vilified the unemployed (all 20 of them) as the cause of all of societies woes. What we have from Nact today is the same old crew with the same old line…”kill the poor”.
Certainly do…there is a lot of bullshit talked about the role of unions that does not match the reality.
A little background: organised labour (unions) originally had to accept a compromise: compulsory unionism in NZ was conditional upon acceptance of the Arbitration System. Unions referred to it as “labours leg iron”.What that meant was that unions were bound by a system that mitigated against the worst excesses of the unions (and the employers).
I don’t regard Unions as socialist bodies: they are in reality a way of grouping together to get a better deal in the way that is regularly applied by other buyers and sellers in the “market”. As a buyer of their services (I employ people) I can see the downside of not being able to screw individuals down as easily. Conversely I don’t have the cost of dealing with multiple individuals, or multiple negotiations, which as an employer save me heaps of time.
Other than your views on compulsory unionism I actually agree with your position on Trade Union’s in regard to bargaining. They can be very beneficial to employee and employer alike.
You only have to look at how shop assistants are treated daily to see why Unions are needed.
Compulsory unionism means that employers cannot single out and fire union members, for one.
As an employer I prefer my employees and myself not to pay taxes to subsidise employers who cannot pay their full costs.
AND I do not see why other employers should not have to compete on efficiency and usefulness rather than on how much they can undercut my employees wages.
Unions are as much a necessary part of capitalism as employer associations. They provide a necessary balance.
I remember reading James McNeishs book Fire Under the Ashes about Danilo Dolci and the
poor in Sicily, which was under the thrall of the Mafia which strangled business and initiatives unless it suited them and bled operating businesses dry. Conditions were not good or improvable. Danilo Dolci did a consciousness raising project with the unemployed men which gained a lot of publicity and anger.
The idea was to have an unemployment strike. The men for the time of the strike stopped being unemployed and went out to work on the roads at their own cost and time.
We don’t want to sink to those levels of desperation, and if we had politicians with real commitment to all the people, to having a vital economy and a successful, buzzing little country, we would be managing our way out of recession not creating this fly-blown mess that everyone walks around at a great distance avoiding the smells and ordure.
I remember reading a book by Danilo Dolci. I recall his manner of speaking was very matter of fact: We wanted a well. I met with this person and they agreed to supply this, then I asked these people for that, then we put it all together and it worked… and so on. Perhaps it was a translation issue, but it was like he was deconstructing and sanitising the art of politics to cut a long, dirty, story short. I came away with the impression of a man who could do the impossible, but also with strong connections to the mafia. You just couldn’t walk round Sicily at that time and do stuff and annoy people and not end up at the wrong end of someone’s Lupara. He had big friends, no doubt about it.
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I think NZ has reached the point where people have to simply take back what has been taken away or given up by stepping in and doing the things they need without any permission or recourse to authorities. The principled, charismatic, Lone Ranger has turned out to be a whore on a mule, so we’ll have to save ourselves.
To be fair to National, the global economy crashed not long after they took office and unemployment spiralled not because of their policies but as a result of the global meltdown. Thankfully New Zealand is not as heavily indebted as the European Union, strong export returns of primary products, fishing, farming and forestry have staved off the more serious implications of a fiscal meltdown as in Greece’s case.
The figures portrayed in the graph don’t reflect the true number of jobs lost in a contracted economy. Upwards of 100,000 Kiwi’s have left for Australia in the last 5 years and if that hadn’t happened the unemployment statistics would be worse and the situation grave for the economy.
I think this discussion keeps getting sidetracked.
There is an assumption in the “reforms” and a lot of this discussion that there are a large numkber of unemployed/solo parents unwilling to look for and take work. This is simply not the case.
While there is a small number of long term unemployed and a small number of long term dpb recipients who have children while on the dpb, their impact on welfare expenditure is very small.
Meanwhile it is very hard to be on an unemployment benefit and not be actively seraching for work – the system already regularly reviews beneficiaries’ status.
So – my question is why do we focus of the very few that are in position?
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
The answer is, of course, that the whole thing is a diversionary tactic. Key/Bennett know that by pretending that there is a problem with malingerers they will build support from the mostly uninformed electorate and divert attention from the real issue – that they have no answers to the lack of employment opportunities.
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
IMO it’s because the NACTs don’t want more people employed, they just don’t want to be blamed for it, the more people unemployed, the more likely a reduction in wages.
And after a couple of years on reducing employment they can force these people back to work at a lower cost to employers – in terms of money for wages and money for worker protection. It’s that simple – while we’re all outraged about blaming/or blaming the unemployed for their plight, they’re getting on with the real business of lowering employer costs.
Zetetic I can’t parse this post because
a) spelling error: should be “people are just TOO snobby“)
b) grammatically weak run-on sentence: please use punctuation when paraphrasing someone’s argument.
Your argument is undermined by lazy misuse of English.
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TL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above that was recorded yesterday afternoon above between and The Kākā’s climate correspondent : An independent review panel into the emergency response to Cyclone Gabrielle in Hawkes Bayconcluded “that ...
There are now only a few days left to give feedback on the Draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport 2024-34 (see our earlier post this week on GPS submission guides). As we’ve reported, the GPS is a disaster for Local Government, so we were particularly interested to hear ...
Willis has pledged to go ahead with the debt-funded tax cuts, despite growing opposition from her own supporters worried about appearing fiscally irresponsible. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for ...
Open access notables A survey of interventions to actively conserve the frozen North, van Wijngaarden et al., Climatic Change:The frozen elements of the high North are thawing as the region warms much faster than the global mean. The dangers of sea level rise due to melting glacier ice, increased ...
Bryce Edwards writes – New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure. The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On ...
In 2015, then-Prime Minister John Key announced plans for a huge ocean sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands, banning fishing and mining from 15% of Aotearoa's EEZ. It was bold, it was ambitious, and it suggested that National might actually care about the environment. Except they fucked it up: Key failed ...
1. Who has just been given the accolade New Zealander of the Year?a. The Kokakob. The Cook Strait Ferryc. Fair God. Dr Jim Salinger 2. Which of these is an affront to decent society?a. Dame Edna Everageb. Mrs Doubtfire c. Dr. Frank-N-Furterd. Brian 3. Who is Penny Simmonds?a. The aspiring actress in Big ...
New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure.The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On the face of it, the court found ...
Buzz from the Beehive Waves of rain are set to lash much of the North Island during Easter Weekend as a low-pressure system forms east of New Zealand, according to a weather forecast published in the past day or so. Niwa was warning of a “moisture-laden” long weekend, with rain expected ...
Look around us…Nicola Willis’ promises of balancing the books, of cutting spending without reducing services, and of delivering game changing tax cuts are disappearing before her eyes.Everyday we see stories of violent crime ending in horrific injuries, or worse. The cost of living worsens, whereas the PM claimed renters would ...
TL;DR: My top six news of note on the morning of Thursday, March 28 include:The Government will have to borrow between $10 billion to $15 billion more than previously expected in order to make up for a slowing economy and to pay for $14.9 billion of tax cuts, according to ...
This story by Naveena Sadasivam and Kate Yoder was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The long-awaited jobs board for the American Climate Corps, promised early in the Biden administration, will open next month, according to details shared exclusively ...
Should landlords be able to deduct the interest on the loans they take out to bankroll their property speculation? The US Senate Budget Committee and Bloomberg News don’t think this is a good idea, for reasons set out below. Regardless, our coalition government has been burning through a ton of ...
Treasury’s first report on the economy since the change of government presents a damning indictment of Labour’s economic management. The problem for National is that it is so damning that logically, coupled with a rapidly slowing economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis should respond to it by postponing or even cancelling ...
Budget tensions are becoming evident within the Coalition Government. Winston Peters made numerous political points in his speech to the NZF annual conference. But the attack on his own government’s fiscal policies raised issues of substance. ‘Today in the Sunday Star Times, journalist and former advisor to the Labour ...
Buzz from the Beehive The media – sure enough – have been binging on Finance Minister Nicola Willis’ release of the Budget Policy Statement and a statement headed Government announces Budget priorities This assures us – or rather, this parrots the Luxon team mantra – that the Budget “will deliver ...
The Ides of March brought me COVID followed by a bereavement. No wonder they tell you to be careful of them.I’m home now and have resumed the interrupted recuperation. Very much looking forward to getting back to regular things. Meanwhile, some thoughts…OneThis new Prime Minister guy just keeps getting more dire. ...
News that the Chinese ATP 40 cyber-hacking unit penetrated parliamentary internet networks in 2021 has renewed concerns about the PRC’s malign intentions in Aotearoa. But is the hack that significant given the length of time that has passed since its … Continue reading → ...
When Parliament passed the Intelligence and security Act in 2017, they assured us all that it was full of safeguards. Any intrusive surveillance of New Zealanders would be subject to a "triple lock", requiring the approval of the Minister and (supposedly independent) Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, as well as post-facto ...
Eric Crampton writes – Richard Harman’s Politik newsletter provides a bit of the context that ought to have been showing up in other media reports on potential reductions in public service staffing. Media has been reporting on staffing cuts on the order of about 7%. Is that ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – It’s becoming increasingly apparent that many perceive free speech to have become the preserve of the politically right wing, the religiously conservative, the libertarian fringe, the anti-trans, the anti-Māori and…. well, just fill in with whatever groups or individuals you don’t like and don’t ...
Don Brash writes – As everybody who is not blind and deaf is aware, there is a huge political preoccupation with climate change at the moment, a widespread (though by no means unanimous) belief that global temperatures are rising mainly as a result of the greenhouse gases created ...
TL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy on Wednesday, March 27 include:Chris Bishop laid out his vision for filling Aotearoa-NZ’s $100 billion infrastructure deficit in a speech yesterday, emphasising user pays and private funding, but failed to say how to achieve bipartisanship on population, public borrowing and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson and former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins have been conveying how unhappy they are with the tax system. Last week in his valedictory speech, Robertson called for the introduction of a wealth or capital gains tax. And this week Hipkins ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Buzz from the Beehive China has loomed large in Beehive considerations over the past 24 hours, largely because of that country’s mischief-making in the cyber espionage department. Two media statements emerged on that subject hard on the heels of the PM baulking at questions put to him on RNZ’s Morning ...
Chris Trotter writes – WHY IS THE NATIONAL PARTY doing so much for landlords, property developers, trucking, and construction companies, and so little for everybody who isn’t already pretty well-off? It’s as if protecting landlords’ investments and building apartments and roads now constitute the whole of National’s ...
Bryce Edwards writes – When she was campaigning to be Minister of Finance last year, Nicola Willis pledged that she would resign from the job if she failed to deliver tax cuts in her first Budget. Now, it’s that pledge, along with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s ...
Robert MacCulloch writes – The Reserve Bank has doubled staff numbers in five years to 510, with personnel costs rising to $80 million in 2023 from $32 million in 2018 – up by a whopping 150%. I guess when you print $50 billion and flood markets with liquidity, ...
The furore. In case you didn’t notice there was a controversy in the weekend involving dolphins in a little town off the South Island. Don’t panic, they haven’t declared independence and resumed whaling, this was simply a sailing event.The problem began when racing was cancelled on the opening day of ...
For 20 years or more, the case for a meaningful capital tax gains has been mulled over and analysed to death, including by the tax working group chaired by Sir Michael Cullen. More than once, the International Monetary Fund has said a CGT would be a good idea for New ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: The Public Health Communications Centre (PHCC) call for urgent preventive action and a risk assessment survey of long covid in this briefing noteLocal scoop: NZ road deaths surpass OECD rates, so why is the govt reversing safety plans? ...
This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. This story is part of a collaboration with Grist and WABE to demystify the Georgia Public Service Commission, the small but powerful state-elected board that makes critical decisions about everything from raising ...
This is a guest post from Robert McLachlan Global warming is accelerating; 2023 was off the charts. We need to stop burning fossil fuels. In New Zealand, transport accounts for half of all fossil fuels burnt. In the Emissions Reduction Plan, transport emissions fall 41% by 2035. As the ...
Labour productivity has been receding rapidly over the past two years, reversing a post-lockdown rise. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy as at 6:26am on Tuesday, March 26 include:Workers have been treading water in output per hour worked for 12 years, ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 2 include:Today, Parliament resumes sitting at 2pm for the second week of a two-week session. Officials for SIS and GCSB report their annual reviews in public to the Intelligence and Security Select Committee from 5.10pm.Tomorrow, ...
Faced with a barrage of criticism over the promised tax cuts from usually supportive commentators, Finance Minister Nicola Willis yesterday reaffirmed her intention to include them in this year’s Budget. The Government is up against it over the cuts just about every way it turns. Commentators like Fran O’Sullivan, Matthew ...
Here’s my pick of today’s substack posts as of 6:26pm on Monday, March 25: writes via his substack that Market-rate housing will make your city cheaper writes via his substack about the problems talking to double-cab ute (truck) drivers about their vehicles. today about moments of radicalisation in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Just before Christmas, Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivered something that was pitched as a mini-budget and brayed about the decisive action being taken to repair the Government books and support income tax relief in Budget 2024. In a statement headed Fiscal repair job underway. she introduced ...
My sister Belinda asked Dad yesterday what one word would describe Mum best. He said: vivacious.If you only knew her from the photos on the slideshow we've made for today,you might wonder about that, because the camera tended to lie with Mum.If ever she saw a camera pointed at her, she ...
There are two major public consultations closing in the next week, Auckland Council’s Long Term Plan (LTP), and the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS). Closing dates and times: LTP closes Thursday 28 February, at 11.59pm – a minute to midnight! GPS closes Tuesday 2 April, at 12pm noon – note that’s ...
From Kiwiblog’s David Farrar – Bryce Wilkinson writes: Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson’s analysis reveals that since March 2009, New Zealand has spent $158 billion more overseas than it has earned, but its NIIP has only fallen by $32 billion.Statistics New Zealand shows that receipts from overseas reinsurers have ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
The Local Government, Transport and Auckland Minister hasthreatened councils with intervention if they don’t merge water assets to take them off balance sheet, just as the now-repealed Three Waters plan directed. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things of note this morning for Monday, March 25 include:Simeon ...
A listing of 36 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 17, 2024 thru Sat, March 23, 2024. Story of the week Thanks to John Mason having the stamina to sit down to watch "Climate - the Movie" ...
This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana – or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. It’s a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealand’s highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition?The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could deliver her promised income tax cuts. Appointed minister, she ...
Buzz from the Beehive Ministers of the Crown have drawn attention to one sector of the science sector which is unlikely to be subjected to heavy spending cuts, a state-funded broadcaster which is doing nicely, thank you, and a sporting event that had $5.4 million from the public purse puffed ...
Abbott’s Freestyle Libre sensors allow continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). The sensor is applied to the back of the patient’s arm, with a thin filament under the skin measuring glucose levels constantly. But it costs around $100 per sensor and must be replaced once every 14 days. Photo by BSIP/Universal Images ...
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “It is often said that behind every great man is a great woman”. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their “Ladies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxon”. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
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Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
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Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
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By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
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Yep the RWNJs seem to believe that a spontaneout outbreak of blugerism occurred when Key assumed power.
Of course it has nothing to do with the economy or the Government’s handling of the GFC.
The number of benefits includes those on superannuation and this particuar benefit will continue to increase in numbers.
Did you know that older people are ageing for a business?
[this graph is just working age benefits. but good point. zet]
Oops thanks zet
I think we have previously established that unemployment was rising sharply in the declining period of the Clark led Labour Government so it is a bit disingenuous to claim that it happened as soon as John Key took office.
However even that doesn’t detract from the fact that I haven’t seen any person on the right actually argue that the reason people are unemployed is purely down to them ALL being lazy bludgers. Perhaps someone could link to someone making this claim?
If people can’t find someone making this claim then the central idea behind this article is a straw man argument. Congratulations on creating one of those and effectively countering it. For your next trick I expect you to state that Right wingers believe up is actually down and how this too is just crazy talk.
Wrong again. I’m intrigued that a spin-tool like yourself isn’t familiar with the old tory technique of “targetting” a few “lifestyle” beneficiaries, while restricting the entitlements of a whole bunch of “worthy poor” as collateral damage. E.g. Pete George the other day.
The fact is that there aren’t enough jobs, therefore unemployment protection is necessary and not an option. And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
That post by Pete George is more supportive of my point than yours. He just stated that he knew of SOME beneficiaries who choose to be beneficiaries not that ALL beneficiaries choose to be beneficiaries. You may disagree with his position on this but it doesn’t provide evidence that right leaning people are trying to argue that the increase in unemployment is due to more people becoming lazy bludgers.
But it does support the argument that if there are no jobs out there, and that all the unemployed-centred “encourage them back into work” bullshit is just bullshit. If the government wants to cut the number of beneficiaries, bullying the unemployed will have less of a result than, oh, investing in education and infrastructure, buying locally, and not laying off public service staff.
Ensuring a viable productive economy and a flexible labour market is probably the best for reducing unemployment on a long term sustainable basis. You may disagree, which is your right, but other people do think this. They are the ones in power at the moment. Next time the left is in power they might attempt something along the lines you are suggesting. I choose to ignore the rest of your emotive laden post.
We can’t get emotive about under-producing economic units.
What possible basis can you have for believing that the government is really trying to solve unemployment? Just how much are you going to blame on the GFC, when we’ve started (since, oh, 2008/9) sliding down the performance charts of the OECD?
Meanwhile, unmatured potential economic units cease to function.
Overall productivity has been consistently rising for decades not just here but world-wide, and New Zealand is still a very flexible place to be an exployer compared to the rest of the OECD. If productivity and flexibility were all it took to increase available employment opportunities, we’d be having a jobs boom already, and it would be completely unrelated to changes in governments or other economic factors. I think we can both accept that the economy is more complicated than that, and at the very least we can agree to concede that it has natural cycles, (booms and busts) and is composed of several tugs of war between employers and labour in general, and more complicated relations between consumers and retailers and industries, and the impact of available information to each party.
The fact is, average productivity (in contrast with overall productivity, which is steadily rising) is actually inversely correlated with high demand for labour, simply because as the demand for workers increases, employers have to settle for less productive employees, who they fire when demand for labour decreases. Low productivity is ironically a sign of a healthy labour market, not because productivity is bad, but because universal employment drags down productivity figures.
To reduce unemployment, circulation needs to increase. Policies that create extra employment, or otherwise equalize the distribution of wealth to some degree, increase circulation and generate demand, which in turn prompts businesses to increase supply, which in turn prompts them to hire additional employees, which prompts them to demand more services and products from other businesses, and so on. You know what doesn’t help that process at all? Employer fleibility and productivity. In fact, productivity generally decreases the need to employ additional people because all of the available work is done.
Talking about viable economics, low the high income inequality would boost both the economy and lower unemployment. Given both Labour and National inability to discuss the effects of increasing oil prices on the economy, business is left in limbo and risk adverse. National would like its voters to believe selling assets won’t harm the deficit but anyone with a clue knows that’s not true. NZ exports its skilled, its profits, and raw resources, when we should be keeping our skilled, our profits and adding value (introducing a CGT). But National are biblically sret against any tax increases unless its on the poorest, unbalanced and unfair GST rises.
National have no idea how to run an economy, one National voter on TV actually thought that pushing single mums into fruit picking and replacing desperate pacific islanders was a real reality. WTF. Just as passing economic analysis shows that is wrong, its always going to be cheaper to hire desperate foriegners froma pacific Island chain (like Australia does to NZ citizens). And more so with some pacific islanders who have no work, no other opportunities and no baby (or home to heat).
National voters know little about economics if they repeat anything a politician says without thought.
And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
Do you think no pressure at all should be put on beneficiaries to improve their edication or get work? (Labour tried to ‘encourage’ people off benefits before National started trying).
Should remaining on a benefit be simply a choice?
Option 3: actually give them educational and employment opportunities that will allow them to participate in society, not bully them into becoming grist for the mill.
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there. Some could be done better, but anyone can get education if they want it.
Creating ’employment opportunities’ is election talk. No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Do you think doubling public service employment would solve it?
Should be but aren’t.
I was watching telly the other day and they had an engineering course targeted at disadvantaged youths – applicants outnumbered places by something like four or five to one.
Universities and polytechs are not exactly running out of students.
Some do better than others. Seems to be those ones that actually foster industry, health and education, rather than speculators.
Nope, not ones that dovetail ludditism and good old fashioned sexism, anyway. Why the apostrophes around women becoming equal (more precisely, women becoming recognised as equal)?
Doubling the public service wouldn’t solve it, but culling the public sector doesn’t help.
Oh now I get it, you’re in politics because you have no understanding of other people’s lives and the real interaction between classes. Makes it pretty easy to say things like “anyone can get education”. Oh sure Pete, the world is so rational and caring and giving. Then you go on to spell out a possible solution, but can’t see it, because you’re holding so tightly to a model that strokes your control dysfunction, but doesn’t work in reality.
When’s you next banning due. I can’t believe you’re so old and so dumb, clearly you are a remorseless troll. Then again, those emails yesterday of rural types imploring Key to let them remain ignorant were quite instructive that a person can be eagerly ignorant for over 50 years. Who’s paying the bill for your eager ignorance, Pete? Unlike those collecting social security, the welfare you are taking has the opposite effect of being either social or secure. Get an education- anyone can – or hurry up and “retire”.
[lprent: Banning is something that the moderators decide. I have banned people for insistently calling for a ban. It falls under the “boring the moderators” or “wasting moderation time” categories. ]
It didn’t take long for the petty personal attacks to return. I’d hoped to come back trying to add to debates, to address ideas and not attack people.
Some seem happy and willing to discuss differences. Will that be swamped by futile provoke-to-ban moronity? I guess if that’s whats wanted here.
Nobody’s asking for zero unemployment right now. I think we’d settle for policies that lowered the figures by a few percentage points this year, in addition to any natural upturn that might happen.
Doubling public service employment would certainly solve the problem, but we’d need to actually have some sort of productive program for that, because the whole point of stimulating the economy with government employment is that you still have people doing productive work for the government on top of the economic gain in general. Doubling the public service would probably be too much stimulus, I would imagine, and there’d be no way to find enough productive work for that many people. Even a twenty percent expansion would be bold start.
But in more staff-neutral terms, we could make significant headway by simply cutting out third-parties from government employment and having the government run its own temping agency, for instance, and stop engaging in this “contracting out” nonsense to get around its own employment laws. We ship an extraordinary amount of money out from the government by contracting out in areas like HR where it just doesn’t make any sense to do so, and the government could provide the services itself with better efficiency, as it wouldn’t need to make a profit.
+1
When it was a choice.
When there was plenty of work and benefits were relatively a lot higher than they are now, very few people chose benefits.
The Prime Minister reckoned he knew all the unemployed by name.
The big number of people on benefits are there simply because the RWNJ neo-liberals stuffed our economy. They wanted a pool of unemployed to help drive wages down.
The current meanness towards beneficiaries is simple to scare all of us into accepting starvation wages and dog whistle to the unintelligent to cover NACT’s economic ineptitude. The same tactics used by another lot of Fascists in the past.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/02/ten-myths-about-welfare/
Pete George is a prime example of “lazy thinking”.
And then you quote lazy ‘myths’. I’ve had a bit of a look before, some of the detail is interesting but the questions are little more than exaggerated loaded nonsense.
1. Anyone who wants to get off welfare can get a job.
Many can and do. Obviously some can’t, for various reasons eg not enough jobs available, unemployable.
2. People on welfare commit a lot of benefit fraud, at the expense of hard-working people
Yes, some people (a small minority) do that.
3. Putting a time limit on how long people can receive welfare is a good idea
How many think that? About three?
4. People who go off on the dole go onto sickness and invalids benefits. We have to crack down on them, too.
A few do that. ‘People’ sort of implies all which is nonsense.
5. Most of the people on welfare are unmarried mothers – many of them teenagers – who have extra children so that they can get more money.
Obvious dramatic exaggeration.
6. Lots of people are on welfare for years and years, and then their children and grandchildren become welfare dependent.
Depends on what you mean by ‘lots’. Too many – yes. But a small minority.
7. Making unemployment insurance compulsory would be a good idea.
How many people think that? I don’t recall seeing it discussed.
8. People on welfare are bludging on the rest of us.
In effect a minority are, but ‘people’ is meant to sort of imply all which is nonsense.
9. Young people need welfare reform in order to teach them the value of work.
Nonsense – who thinks that? The best teachers of the value of work are parents and wider family, by example. Welfare reform may encourage or nudge some young people to find out the value of work for themselves.
10. Thank goodness the Maori Party is at the Cabinet table, to ensure the genuine needs of Maori are being met.
A political dig at the end. That’s been called a ‘myth’?
PG. You know the article was debunking common RWNJ myths about welfare, don’t you?
Or did you even read it.
I take back what I said about how good our education system is. It has obviously failed some people.
1. “Some people get off the unemployment benefit” is not the same as “anybody can get off the unemployment benefit if they try”. Some people are legitimately unemployable, some people need additional resources to become employed that they don’t have enough social resources to acquire, and some people are simply unemployed because the economy is too depressed for them to be a worthwhile bet for an employer right now. The vast majority of those people couldn’t get off the unemployment without spending more money on helping them.
And you know what? You shouldn’t have to be exceptional to get out of unemployment, you should need to be exceptional to require it, if we had a healthy society. Anything above 3% is not even arguably an exception, and ideally we should have less than 1% of the workforce drawing the benefit for more than a month at a time.
2. The minority of people who abuse benefits is so small that measures that are already in place can deal with them. We should be more concerned with the fact that it’s not possible to eat healthily on the benefit and afford accommodation at the same time.
3. Time-limiting benefits is just a more extreme version of the other sticks that the Right wants to offer beneficiaries. Sometimes it’s not a matter of sticks or carrots, sometimes you just need support to get into employment. People want to be productive, they want to feel involved, they want the things that meaningful employment (ie. not McJobs) offer, so the carrot is there intrinsically. We just need to stop dangling it from the stick over their heads and actually put it in reach.
4. So you agree we don’t need to crack down on people who go onto sickness or invalids benefits from the dole? Because as I see it they’re pretty hard to qualify for as-is and unlikely to be a point of abuse.
5. Sure, but it’s a significant portion of the complaining about benefits, too. I’m not sure you get to complain about people quoting back to you what people are actually saying- and as far as single mothers on benefits are concerned, that’s a pretty mild paraphrasing. And yes, I understand that this is getting into the foggy areas of personal experience rather than factual debate.
6. Sure, too many. But actual dependency on welfare is a symptom of a great many social problems, and it makes sense to deal with the causative factors before we actually think about increasing pressure on beneficiaries, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t think anyone would claim that long-term beneficiaries don’t need policy to address them- the debate is about how legally mandating people to get jobs possibly helps them when we’ve already established they either can’t or won’t in their current situation, and I would argue the answer is “overall it does more harm than good.”
8. Undeniably there are a few people who do this, but the question is whether they’re worth any additional energy to deal with. I don’t think so- it’s an incredibly low return on investment to follow them up directly when you could actually look at the root causes of the need for welfare.
9. I’ve met people who think that. They’re fortunately a significant minority, but they do exist, and I get very embarassing praise from them for having found my way into being a “young professional”, (by which they mean I get paid more than minimum wage and need to wear business clothes to work, despite needing to work six days a week to save anything significant) even though they don’t know I spent multiple years dealing with a severe anxiety disorder in which I couldn’t work.
(I was supported by my parents, so I didn’t actually claim the benefit at the time- which is yet more proof that being stuck on a benefit is a symptom of lacking other resources to fall back on more than some sort of intrinsic failing)
more lies goose
The RWNJ’s are right. Bob Jones, for example, is on record as saying that when National forms a government, he changes his strategy to a low growth model.
There is a direct correlation between the National Party and a slower work rate in the economy. The RWNJ’s are still missing the point though – they think laziness causes the problem, but the problem is their understanding of economics is a little bit shit.
I’m not so sure you can say there is a change to the entire system just because of one example. In my opinion, what Bob Jones says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Your point is well made though Kotahi Tane Huna, people simply don’t work as hard when they’re earning less. You really do get what you pay for and if you’re a smart investor, you take your money out of the NZ economy when the Natz get into power. They’re not to be trusted.
The irony though Kotahi Tane Huna is that the likes of Bob Jones expect to make more income under a Labour led govt. Exactly the opposite of how Labour sells itself to it’s supporters…..
But sure…. lets vote in a govt that’s better for the wealthy … just pretend it’s best for the little guy and lets make the wealthy …. well wealthier….
I think this Global meltdown doesn’t mean a low growth environment is the same thing as a low profit environment.
BS Burt labour is better for everybody god with your dumb logic no wonder your a National supporter so what you’ve been saying up till now that labour is bad for wealth creatos is just a figment of your imagination.
Like gooseman you have been caught out!
Superannuation was paid to 535 300 people in the 2011 year. This is 12.75% of the population and really not very high by any stretch of the imagination.
NZ should be investing in manufacturing of products derived from its prime products, i.e. wood, wool. It is tragic that whole logs are being shipped offshore and all we need to do is get diesel for the chainsaw. Plastics and Textile imports are the largest growth items between 2005 and 2010 mostly from China. Milk powder, butter and cheese export has increased by around 80% and logs by around 33%.Except for crude oil no other area is significant in exports.
The biggest problem hidden in the figures are the number of under 25s out of work (or in “tronning”), I would hazard that over half of the under 25s have no “real” prospect of a “good” job. This is a form of inter generational theft. There is a call for the age of superannuation to rise, so the older workers have to stay longer…..which means the younger ones will have to wait longer. The thinking behind this is either warped or very self serving.
Where is the evidence that a lower retirement age has a big impact on youth unemployment? Certainly if we look at the countries in Europe with a lower age of retirement I would suggest we would tend to find that Youth unemployment rates are the same, or even higher, than those countries with a higher average age of retirement. Your argument smacks of the same logical fallacy that some conservatives use for discouraging women in the workforce.
Gos, I need very little evidence that if I add work to one age cohort (like an extra year) that work is not going to be available to another age cohort. Nothing is more obvious. And to make matters worse I have little faith that an extra years work will be available to that age cohort either.
Whether that work is “available” or able to be undertaken by another age cohort is entirely another issue. What it screams to me is that whilst there is a youth employment crisis the politicians and Treasury are focused firmly on the wrong age cohort.
I just love Goose giving yet another call for “evidence” followed by him suggesting an alternative theory but supplying no evidence for it.
This is a good discussion on it
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/12/12/2003520527
Especially this sentence “Governments had tried in the past to reduce youth unemployment by enticing older workers to retire, but had failed, partly because they had to raise labor taxes to pay for the extended pensions. Employers were not amused.”
LoL. 🙂
Merely pointing out that you are habitually arrogance rich, but evidence light. Although this bit made me laugh.
When
is an increase not an increase? When an economist says it’s a “temporary factor”.
When I am asked to provide evidence for anything I have made a claim for I tend to provide it or at least provide a source for it. A good example of that is that list of links to various papers on the benefits of economic freedom for economic growth. You might disagree with the links but then again I tend to disagree with your sources as well. You also missed my linking to an IMF paper on Belgium which refers to the same fallacy that is mentioned briefly in the editorial you are commenting on.
Meh – saw it. My point was that on the one hand you were criticising someone for not providing evidence when they made a claim at the same time as doing the same thing.
But then of course you missed the wee comment in your own source that essentially contradicts it and your position (albeit a “temporary” contradiction). Of course, you have a history of failing to read your own sources.
Your temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion. The IMF paper goes into greater detail about the fallacy that Bored is promoting. If you care to discuss this then go ahead. If you want to try and score petty debating points go ahead and waste your time once again.
Gos, it was your source that brought it up.
As for the IMF report:
Not entirely sure 28 counts as particularly “young” in the employment market. Especially when they skipped the firest two years of post-school employment history (for reasons that are basically odd), even though they identified school-industry mismatch as a cause of youth unemployment.
Sigh.
You asked for evidence supporting my claim that Bored’s comments were a fallacy. I provided that evidence. Whether you agree with the evidence or not is irrelevant to me. Bored hasn’t even bothered to counter this, just restate his position as if it is commonly accepted as a fact. It obviously isn’t as there wouldn’t be a fallacy named for it.
So now you’ll only accept criticism of sources (that you link to only upon request, and that you frequently fail to read yourself) from those people who aren’t particularly interested in getting into a semantic debate with a slippery propogandist?
slick.
Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot you’d be all to eager to crow objectionably, not to mention subsequently insisting that no evidence had been provided…
McCock,
If someone posted a link to something that I disagreed with I don’t think I would state they haven’t provided any evidence. I might state something like, (if it is an opinion piece), that the evidence is not very persuassive or is flawed or that it isn’t hard evidence
And then a day or so later it becomes no relevant evidence whatsoever…
Pity that reality contradicts your claims that economic freedom benefits economic growth.
The fastest growing economies have always had Government intervention, assistance and regulation. And the highest taxes!
Not according to the number of links I provided a few days ago.
Like the one that claims Freidmanite economics and Pinochet were good for Chile?
Here’s a paper that is discussing the link in Belgium (in which the participation rates for elderly people in the workforce has been declining).
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2008/wp0830.pdf
Please note the following passage
“The idea that forcing elderly workers out of the labor market before the statutory age of
retirement would provide jobs for the unemployed young has been for a long time widely
accepted in several European countries, particularly in Belgium where indeed youth
unemployment is particularly high both in absolute and in relative terms. For most
economists and fortunately an increasing number of Belgian this view is based on the
erroneous belief in a fixed amount of work. Economists call this allegedly widespread view
the “lump of labor fallacy”.”
Is that evidence enough for you McFlock?
For once Gossy is correct
More people working grows consumption, the economy and allows more jobs. More State employment grows, not shrinks, the private sector.
Gossy has just contradicted his own previous positions, generally supporting those who think that austerity and small government are economically beneficial. The Laffer curve is also a result of the “lump of Labour, lump of capital fallacy.
State spending needs to be underpinned by the productive sector and constatly increasing it is not self sustaining over the long term. Eventually you just end up borrowing more and more to fund unproductive expenditure. You just need to look at the problems in Greece to see the outcome of this. The only solutions in this case are either debt default, inflating your way out of trouble (including devaluation of currency), or severe Governement cut backs (i.e. austerity).
By the way it is interesting to see a sort of bastardised version of Keynesian being promoted here.
Are you still trying to pretend that the State sector is not productive Gossy.
I thought we already had this discussion.
Greece was a lot more complicated than you admit, and very little to do with Government deficits as RWNJ’s try to claim.
Being tied to the Euro and German currency had a lot to do with it. Greece’s currency should have devalued.
Keynes has been proved right, and Freidman wrong, many times now. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/voodoo-economics.html
This is a good article on the subject. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10789734
How is borrowing to give more money to bankers, and the wealthy to spend on Hawaii holidays, working, Gossy.
See my links. In short your thinking has a name. It is called the “lump of labour fallacy”.
It must be nice to know your line of thinking has it’s own particular fallacy.
Bored, having so many people under 25 out of work – these are University degree holders and NZ has only a small pool of jobs suited to that skill level. Many jobs are customer service, help desk and manual, part time and seasonal work. The pay is not going to cover living costs and paying back the student loan. Besides, one does not study for years to pick apples (not that there is something wrong with that). Many will go overseas looking for greener pastures and NZ is the poorer for it. As for the retirement age – there maybe people who want to work longer (never met any) but there are many who have to work longer as they still pay mortgage, help with grand kids or are on single income. So, all in all it looks like we are slowly becoming a very poor country.
Right on there Foreign Waka. But NACTs are unlikely to think about the country and economy in any useful, meaningful way that would bring such practical considerations to the fore for implementation.
I recently spent time with some RW. Not a book about the place, no newspapers which might spread round untidily. Lots of interest in Breakfast TV and the bright coloured mannikins that appear there giving the junk news. No RadioNZ reporting and analysis, only Coast with endlessly pleasant music and limited advertisements to provide ‘wallpaper for the ears’ as Peter Ustinov remarked about elevator music.
It’s frightening to know that so much power is held in the hands of these smug people in their cloistered ivory towers, looking with disdain on the unsatisfactory plebs below. The strugglers and the non-achievers are the labels applied to those not regarded as worthwhile human beings at all.
Why? Disappointed you didn’t find the complete works of Ayn Rand on the bedside table? I really don’t like this kind of attack because ultimately you can say exactly the same things of a lot of poor working people, the “strugglers and the non-achievers” – not always groanoing bookshelves in their homes either. Attack a person’s views, philosophy and politics if you must, but it seems a bit mean spirited to attack their taste in home entertainment.
I remember going to work in the Uni holidays of 1975 and walking down a street in Sydenham calling into every factory en route asking for work. I worked 2 days for one place before deciding that the boss was an out of control maniac, so I went next door and asked for a job cutting up meat. We worked to a Union award and there was a group bonus, the Union man and the foreman drove this mercilessly so there was no slacking. Good money was paid, but you had to earn it, and I don’t recall any slackers or absentees.
The point of the above is that when we had full employment we also had good wages, and we had very little need of welfare. And compulsory unionism meant there was some balance between employers and employees. Most importantly people were demonstrably NOT lazy. Any form of perceived bludging was frowned upon from all quarters.
Funny thing, back in the 70s the National Party maintained a narrative that described workers as lazy. They also vilified the unemployed (all 20 of them) as the cause of all of societies woes. What we have from Nact today is the same old crew with the same old line…”kill the poor”.
So do you support compulsory unionism on a similar level to what was in existence in your time in 1975?
Certainly do…there is a lot of bullshit talked about the role of unions that does not match the reality.
A little background: organised labour (unions) originally had to accept a compromise: compulsory unionism in NZ was conditional upon acceptance of the Arbitration System. Unions referred to it as “labours leg iron”.What that meant was that unions were bound by a system that mitigated against the worst excesses of the unions (and the employers).
I don’t regard Unions as socialist bodies: they are in reality a way of grouping together to get a better deal in the way that is regularly applied by other buyers and sellers in the “market”. As a buyer of their services (I employ people) I can see the downside of not being able to screw individuals down as easily. Conversely I don’t have the cost of dealing with multiple individuals, or multiple negotiations, which as an employer save me heaps of time.
Other than your views on compulsory unionism I actually agree with your position on Trade Union’s in regard to bargaining. They can be very beneficial to employee and employer alike.
I do.
And am writing an article soon as to why.
You only have to look at how shop assistants are treated daily to see why Unions are needed.
Compulsory unionism means that employers cannot single out and fire union members, for one.
As an employer I prefer my employees and myself not to pay taxes to subsidise employers who cannot pay their full costs.
AND I do not see why other employers should not have to compete on efficiency and usefulness rather than on how much they can undercut my employees wages.
Unions are as much a necessary part of capitalism as employer associations. They provide a necessary balance.
I remember reading James McNeishs book Fire Under the Ashes about Danilo Dolci and the
poor in Sicily, which was under the thrall of the Mafia which strangled business and initiatives unless it suited them and bled operating businesses dry. Conditions were not good or improvable. Danilo Dolci did a consciousness raising project with the unemployed men which gained a lot of publicity and anger.
The idea was to have an unemployment strike. The men for the time of the strike stopped being unemployed and went out to work on the roads at their own cost and time.
We don’t want to sink to those levels of desperation, and if we had politicians with real commitment to all the people, to having a vital economy and a successful, buzzing little country, we would be managing our way out of recession not creating this fly-blown mess that everyone walks around at a great distance avoiding the smells and ordure.
I remember reading a book by Danilo Dolci. I recall his manner of speaking was very matter of fact: We wanted a well. I met with this person and they agreed to supply this, then I asked these people for that, then we put it all together and it worked… and so on. Perhaps it was a translation issue, but it was like he was deconstructing and sanitising the art of politics to cut a long, dirty, story short. I came away with the impression of a man who could do the impossible, but also with strong connections to the mafia. You just couldn’t walk round Sicily at that time and do stuff and annoy people and not end up at the wrong end of someone’s Lupara. He had big friends, no doubt about it.
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I think NZ has reached the point where people have to simply take back what has been taken away or given up by stepping in and doing the things they need without any permission or recourse to authorities. The principled, charismatic, Lone Ranger has turned out to be a whore on a mule, so we’ll have to save ourselves.
What do the numbers on the left and right of the graph represent?
Is it working population and numbers on the benifit?
Dohl….lhs & rhs urgh
Zet looks to me like it should read “… lazy between 2008 and 2010Q4“
To be fair to National, the global economy crashed not long after they took office and unemployment spiralled not because of their policies but as a result of the global meltdown. Thankfully New Zealand is not as heavily indebted as the European Union, strong export returns of primary products, fishing, farming and forestry have staved off the more serious implications of a fiscal meltdown as in Greece’s case.
The figures portrayed in the graph don’t reflect the true number of jobs lost in a contracted economy. Upwards of 100,000 Kiwi’s have left for Australia in the last 5 years and if that hadn’t happened the unemployment statistics would be worse and the situation grave for the economy.
I think this discussion keeps getting sidetracked.
There is an assumption in the “reforms” and a lot of this discussion that there are a large numkber of unemployed/solo parents unwilling to look for and take work. This is simply not the case.
While there is a small number of long term unemployed and a small number of long term dpb recipients who have children while on the dpb, their impact on welfare expenditure is very small.
Meanwhile it is very hard to be on an unemployment benefit and not be actively seraching for work – the system already regularly reviews beneficiaries’ status.
So – my question is why do we focus of the very few that are in position?
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
The answer is, of course, that the whole thing is a diversionary tactic. Key/Bennett know that by pretending that there is a problem with malingerers they will build support from the mostly uninformed electorate and divert attention from the real issue – that they have no answers to the lack of employment opportunities.
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
IMO it’s because the NACTs don’t want more people employed, they just don’t want to be blamed for it, the more people unemployed, the more likely a reduction in wages.
And after a couple of years on reducing employment they can force these people back to work at a lower cost to employers – in terms of money for wages and money for worker protection. It’s that simple – while we’re all outraged about blaming/or blaming the unemployed for their plight, they’re getting on with the real business of lowering employer costs.
It is a diversionary tactic that has been used often, successfully.
Focus the hate of the ignorant on another group. So they do not see who are really causing the problems and taking the wealth.
Fraud cops call it the “bait and switch”.
The disgusting thing is that those who do the dog whistling, know better.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Zetetic I can’t parse this post because
a) spelling error: should be “people are just TOO snobby“)
b) grammatically weak run-on sentence: please use punctuation when paraphrasing someone’s argument.
Your argument is undermined by lazy misuse of English.
You’re not at Auckland Grammar now, Dr Ropata!