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	<title>Comments on: Levin Arrest and Police Escort</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-179043</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-179043</guid>
		<description>Offhand I don&#039;t know. rocky will (she needs to know, and she is studying law).

However I&#039;d suspect the current version of the Crimes Act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Offhand I don&#8217;t know. rocky will (she needs to know, and she is studying law).</p>
<p>However I&#8217;d suspect the current version of the Crimes Act.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Dale</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178943</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178943</guid>
		<description>Felix:

No, go right ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix:</p>
<p>No, go right ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178903</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178903</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not as interested in the specifics of this particular case as I am in people&#039;s views on the principles surrounding it.

That&#039;s why I keep asking you (and others) to take a position on:

a. what you think are appropriate circumstances for the police to be allowed to search a car, and

b. whether you&#039;re calling for the law to be changed to allow this or for the police to simply carry on ignoring the law.

So far you, gitmo and a few others have stated that you approve of the police searching a car in a (hypothetical) case such as the one discussed in the post.

No-one though has made a clear statement of whether they support the law being changed to allow the police to do so, 

AND (perhaps more importantly)

no-one has made any effort to outline the parameters of such a law change.

I suspect that none of you want to put your hands up and call for an expansion of police powers but you&#039;ve all expressed that expanded police powers are acceptable to you &lt;i&gt;in this specific (hypothetical) case&lt;/i&gt;.

As you&#039;ve taken that position the onus is on you to define what sort of law change you&#039;re calling for - for example:

searching the house or car of anyone arrested for anything? searching the house or car of anyone suspected of anything?
searching the house and car of anyone questioned?

It&#039;s not enough to say you want the law changed so Rocky&#039;s car can be searched, but this is as far as any of you have been prepared to go so far.

(Unless of course you don&#039;t want the law changed at all but would like the police to ignore it at will).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not as interested in the specifics of this particular case as I am in people&#8217;s views on the principles surrounding it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I keep asking you (and others) to take a position on:</p>
<p>a. what you think are appropriate circumstances for the police to be allowed to search a car, and</p>
<p>b. whether you&#8217;re calling for the law to be changed to allow this or for the police to simply carry on ignoring the law.</p>
<p>So far you, gitmo and a few others have stated that you approve of the police searching a car in a (hypothetical) case such as the one discussed in the post.</p>
<p>No-one though has made a clear statement of whether they support the law being changed to allow the police to do so, </p>
<p>AND (perhaps more importantly)</p>
<p>no-one has made any effort to outline the parameters of such a law change.</p>
<p>I suspect that none of you want to put your hands up and call for an expansion of police powers but you&#8217;ve all expressed that expanded police powers are acceptable to you <i>in this specific (hypothetical) case</i>.</p>
<p>As you&#8217;ve taken that position the onus is on you to define what sort of law change you&#8217;re calling for &#8211; for example:</p>
<p>searching the house or car of anyone arrested for anything? searching the house or car of anyone suspected of anything?<br />
searching the house and car of anyone questioned?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not enough to say you want the law changed so Rocky&#8217;s car can be searched, but this is as far as any of you have been prepared to go so far.</p>
<p>(Unless of course you don&#8217;t want the law changed at all but would like the police to ignore it at will).</p>
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		<title>By: lukas</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178886</link>
		<dc:creator>lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178886</guid>
		<description>sorry, you are right, like I said, quick read through.

What Act prohibits police search for sentences under six months?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, you are right, like I said, quick read through.</p>
<p>What Act prohibits police search for sentences under six months?</p>
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		<title>By: rocky</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178876</link>
		<dc:creator>rocky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178876</guid>
		<description>lukas it&#039;s not the trespass law Jasmine was charged with, it&#039;s the Summary Offences Act 1981.

As for the Search and Surviellance Bill, there&#039;s a reason it&#039;s called a bill, not an act. It&#039;s not law yet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lukas it&#8217;s not the trespass law Jasmine was charged with, it&#8217;s the Summary Offences Act 1981.</p>
<p>As for the Search and Surviellance Bill, there&#8217;s a reason it&#8217;s called a bill, not an act. It&#8217;s not law yet!</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178874</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178874</guid>
		<description>The Search and Surveillance Bill is a Bill ... That means it isn&#039;t law yet. I think that will qualify you as the dufus of the day for lack of attention to the political and legislative processes

Rocky can point you to the relevant legislation,  but it is probably in the current Crimes act.

Incidentally rocky has been making a study of the SS bill. If you want to know more, ask her. She will give you chapter and verse on the bits she thinks are good or bad in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Search and Surveillance Bill is a Bill &#8230; That means it isn&#8217;t law yet. I think that will qualify you as the dufus of the day for lack of attention to the political and legislative processes</p>
<p>Rocky can point you to the relevant legislation,  but it is probably in the current Crimes act.</p>
<p>Incidentally rocky has been making a study of the SS bill. If you want to know more, ask her. She will give you chapter and verse on the bits she thinks are good or bad in it.</p>
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		<title>By: lukas</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178869</link>
		<dc:creator>lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178869</guid>
		<description>actually Felix, I just did a quick read of the Search and Surveillance Bill, there is no mention of the six month minimum sentence, seems that the Police may have acted lawfully, happy to be corrected on that though.

You can have a quick look at the Act here- http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2009/0045/latest/viewpdf.aspx?search=qs_all%40act%40bill%40regulation_search_resel&amp;p=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually Felix, I just did a quick read of the Search and Surveillance Bill, there is no mention of the six month minimum sentence, seems that the Police may have acted lawfully, happy to be corrected on that though.</p>
<p>You can have a quick look at the Act here- <a href="http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2009/0045/latest/viewpdf.aspx?search=qs_all%40act%40bill%40regulation_search_resel&#038;p=1" rel="nofollow">http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2009/0045/latest/viewpdf.aspx?search=qs_all%40act%40bill%40regulation_search_resel&#038;p=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178861</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178861</guid>
		<description>So the question is do you want the law changed or just ignored?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the question is do you want the law changed or just ignored?</p>
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		<title>By: lukas</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178845</link>
		<dc:creator>lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178845</guid>
		<description>Sorry felix, forgot about this

The fact that the trespass law carries a maximum sentence of 3 months is pretty stupid, if I found someone unlawfully on my property I would want their car searched, how do the police know that Rocky and her friends (who obviously can not be trusted) did not take anything from the farm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry felix, forgot about this</p>
<p>The fact that the trespass law carries a maximum sentence of 3 months is pretty stupid, if I found someone unlawfully on my property I would want their car searched, how do the police know that Rocky and her friends (who obviously can not be trusted) did not take anything from the farm?</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178840</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178840</guid>
		<description>Those organizations already have the rights to enter properties doing anything with animals and inspect them.

MAF doesn&#039;t have enough inspectors.
SPCA is a charity and doesn&#039;t have the resources.
The NZ Police choose not to exercise their powers.

It is left up to the animal rights activists to go in, document, and kick some activity into action where they find abuses. 

Why don&#039;t you push to get a better animal handling regime in place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those organizations already have the rights to enter properties doing anything with animals and inspect them.</p>
<p>MAF doesn&#8217;t have enough inspectors.<br />
SPCA is a charity and doesn&#8217;t have the resources.<br />
The NZ Police choose not to exercise their powers.</p>
<p>It is left up to the animal rights activists to go in, document, and kick some activity into action where they find abuses. </p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you push to get a better animal handling regime in place?</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178813</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178813</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t there think non point then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t there think non point then.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Dale</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178809</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178809</guid>
		<description>Im sure you will explained it to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im sure you will explained it to me.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178808</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178808</guid>
		<description>Come on gitmo, you&#039;re so close - do you want the law changed or do you want it ignored?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on gitmo, you&#8217;re so close &#8211; do you want the law changed or do you want it ignored?</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178806</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178806</guid>
		<description>lukas I also notice you still haven&#039;t responded to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/#comment-178593&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;other discussion&lt;/a&gt; we were having above.

Are you going to take a position? So far no one has articulated a coherent one but with your communications background you should have no trouble doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lukas I also notice you still haven&#8217;t responded to the <a href="http://www.thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/#comment-178593" rel="nofollow">other discussion</a> we were having above.</p>
<p>Are you going to take a position? So far no one has articulated a coherent one but with your communications background you should have no trouble doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/levin-arrest-and-police-escort/comment-page-1/#comment-178805</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=27204#comment-178805</guid>
		<description>Oh lukas if you doubt the whole story that&#039;s fine but you should say that&#039;s what you&#039;re doing, otherwise we&#039;re talking across one another.

If it makes it easier for you we could talk about a hypothetical scenario exactly like the one in the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh lukas if you doubt the whole story that&#8217;s fine but you should say that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re doing, otherwise we&#8217;re talking across one another.</p>
<p>If it makes it easier for you we could talk about a hypothetical scenario exactly like the one in the post.</p>
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