Lying Key

126 comments on “Lying Key ”

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1. RedLogix 1

   6 March 2014 at 7:49 am

   I’ll quote verbatim a comment from ‘Tom’ in the comment thread below that Daily Blog post:

   Cunliffe is trapped. He’s a good guy and I like him, as do many other New Zealanders. However, the people who “matter” in New Zealand have decided that he won’t be allowed to win, and he won’t be, because they have the power to do that.

   I don’t think that there’s anything he or anyone else can do about it. What’s going to happen between now and the election is an endless stream of stories like this, with increasing calls for Cunliffe to resign or be toppled. I’d love to be wrong, but nobody here or anywhere else seems to have a realistic suggestion.

   As for those of us who tend to the left, we should remember that playing a rigged game legitimises it. If it gets worse, people should seriously think about boycotting the election.

   I’ll go one step further – it’s obvious that Labour has traitors in its ranks as well. Mc Cartens appointment has unleashed a deluge of panic attacks on Cunliffe from the people most anxious about it. We are neck deep in a vicious battle with greed, privilege and snobbery.

   There is only one possible realistic suggestion. The Left must start acting like a real political force, and take action in unity. Nothing else matters anymore.

   Trotter is right. Failure now is failure for another generation.
   • Tautoko Viper 1.1

     6 March 2014 at 8:56 am

     +1 RL It is no good us sitting on our hands and taking the falsehoods as inevitable.
     Time to commit to action. Every person who wants to get rid of this lying, cheating, out-for-the-rich-only government needs to look at how they can contribute. Collectively we can win. We need to put the lower priority issues to one side and concentrate on the big issue- getting National OUT of office. (Most of the side issues cannot be addressed with this Govt, so step 1 is to get them out.)
     Make a pledge with yourself to take some positive action to achieve this. Wishful thinking, or even worse, thinking that anything you do can’t make a difference- (which is the whole purpose of the current attacks on Labour/Cunliffe to ramp up the non-vote helplessness) is not good enough.
     Come on, all you decent minded people who care about others and the environment, we are going to rise up and climb over the M$M barricades and WIN!
   • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2

     6 March 2014 at 8:58 am

     +100

     There are some on the Left who seem to think all they had to do to win the war was change the NZLP leadership election rules.

     Now the enemy is firing back it’s time to give up, apparently.
     • geoff 1.2.1

       6 March 2014 at 7:46 pm

       Well Said, OAB.
       And what else needs to be said is this… Even if Labour loses the election I would not vote for a leadership change again.
       Right now we’ve got a properly leftwing leader, we’ve got a committed membership and affiliates. We only have to settle some internal MP problems and then convince the electorate that National doesn’t have any answers to the big problems facing most kiwis, that National will only care about those things to the extent that it will get them re-elected, and finally, that Labour/Greens/Mana actually do have some good answers to those problems.
       If it takes another 3 years then so be it.
       (Not that I’m giving up on winning this election yet.)
   • weka 1.3

     6 March 2014 at 9:53 am

     “There is only one possible realistic suggestion. The Left must start acting like a real political force, and take action in unity. Nothing else matters anymore.”

     Ae. So how we going to do that? Maybe it’s time to start taking the conversation on ts further.

     Tom:

     “As for those of us who tend to the left, we should remember that playing a rigged game legitimises it. If it gets worse, people should seriously think about boycotting the election.”

     Stupid beyond belief. Without any appreciable strategy from the left a boycott is pointless. It might satisfy personal ethics, but it will also just play into the hands of the people who want the left disinfranchised.

     It’s that small but large enough number of people that don’t vote that gift the government to NACT. Even if there were a substantial boycott, say 50%, who would give a shit? You think that NACT will? Or that the MSM will finally get a conscience? I would guess we would wring our hands for a term to two and by that time it will be too late.
   • xtasy 1.4

     6 March 2014 at 11:15 am

     RL –

     A pretty realistic assessment, coming close to how I see things!
   • Sosoo 1.5

     6 March 2014 at 1:19 pm

     Traitors in the ranks?

     If all this resulted in the tarring and feathering of Trevor Mallard, it would all be worth it. 😉
2. Jimbob 2

   6 March 2014 at 8:08 am

   You’ve missed the point. Key can say whatever he likes in the vacuum left by cunliffe’s issues with transparency and the truth. These are accusations he wants answered but I doubt there are many people left in NZ who believe anything cunliffe says anymore.
   • karol 2.1

     6 March 2014 at 8:20 am

     FFS, John Key is the one who is totally slippery with the truth. Yet the media have never put him under the scrutiny that they put Cunliffe under.

     The accusations against Cunliffe in contrast, are just a series of beat-ups.
     • framu 2.1.1

       6 March 2014 at 8:58 am

       “The accusations against Cunliffe in contrast, are just a series of beat-ups.”

       that happened looooooong after key starting making shit up
     • Anne 2.1.2

       6 March 2014 at 11:26 am

       The accusations against Cunliffe in contrast, are just a series of beat-ups.

       Someone will soon correct me if I’m wrong, but one of those beat-up stories is apparently about a bank investment Cunliffe is claimed to have not immediately declared. That is hitting the bottom of the barrel!

       A bank investment is no more than an extension of an ordinary daily working account. For example, someone may have $10,000 sitting in an account which they don’t intend to immediately
       use, so they extract $5,000 and place it in a short/medium term fixed deposit scheme which is attached to their everyday account. At the end of the fixed period it will go back into their current account unless otherwise specified by the account owner. To suggest deceitful behaviour on the part of Cunliffe for forgetting one existed, means EVERY MP should have their savings/cheque accounts thoroughly examined for similar loss of memory. I bet you would find the majority have at some point made exactly the same ‘error’.

       Stop apologising Cunliffe. You’ve done nothing wrong!
       • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 2.1.2.1

         6 March 2014 at 12:37 pm

         +1 Anne,

         I acknowledge that Mr Cunliffe is experiencing a ‘trial by fire’, (‘a fucked up media’ can replace ‘fire’ here) however I was deeply disappointed to hear it reported that Mr Cunliffe had apologised re the Labour Party Leadership trust.

         Of course, I don’t know whether Cunliffe actually did apologise because I gained this information off TV3 and they appear to simply ‘make shit up’ – however, if he did I don’t think he should have – if he gets advice and makes a decision based on the information he has to hand and it turns out to be incorrect – that is all he needs to say. Apologising in this instance merely feeds the line coming out of Key’s/Textors propaganda advice, which would be along the lines of:

         Call Labour/Greens/Mana ‘Tricky’ repetitively – at every opportunity you get – in this way people will be distracted from how really fucking tricky, incompetent and unreliable you lot (National government) are AND will discourage alot of people who would vote against you from voting altogether, out of disgust at how ‘untrustworthy’ politicians

         I therefore agree with you Anne, and plead with Mr Cunliffe to please think through the ramification of apologising before doing so.

         Don’t apologise, give a clear message as to why what you chose to do had reasonable intent. Don’t allow the ‘politicians are untrustworthy’ meme to continue unquestioned.
   • swordfish 2.2

     6 March 2014 at 11:03 pm

     Let’s take a bit of a stroll down memory-lane, shall we, Jimbob ?

     Let’s begin with……http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2097819/425825/article.html

     Now, let’s move on to……https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaEXa202Q6M

     Before finishing with……https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJSFVWKnsE

     (With the last of these, have a wee laugh at John’s body language 0.26 – 0.39 when he realises he’s been caught out).

     Goodnight, Mary-Ellen, goodnight John-Boy, goodnight Jim-Bob.
3. karol 3

   6 March 2014 at 8:17 am

   Add to Martyn’s list the fact that Kim Dotcom has tweeted today:

   I have never donated to the leadership race of @DavidCunliffeMP or to Labor, or the Greens, or NZ First. I support the #InternetParty!
   • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

     6 March 2014 at 8:46 am

     I note he doesn’t deny donating to National.
     • Lanthanide 3.1.1

       6 March 2014 at 9:26 am

       Or Labour.
       • Bastables 3.1.1.1

         6 March 2014 at 9:41 am

         Did they stop teaching comprehension when you were at school? Or did you just not pay attention then or now?

         “I have never donated to the leadership race of @DavidCunliffeMP or to Labor, or the Greens, or NZ First. I support the #InternetParty!”
         • felix 3.1.1.1.1

           6 March 2014 at 9:45 am

           I think Lanth is pointing out a typo, and wondering if it could have been deliberately deployed.
           • Zorr 3.1.1.1.1.1

             6 March 2014 at 11:05 am

             Or his autocucumber autocorrected to the American spelling
             • Lanthanide …

               6 March 2014 at 11:55 am

               Ah, that’s probably quite likely.
         • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.2

           6 March 2014 at 11:54 am

           Actually I have very good reading comprehension.

           I always wondered at school why we had “reading comprehension tests” because it seemed incredibly pointless to me to read a passage and then get asked jaw-droppingly obvious questions about what I’d just read.
           • burt 3.1.1.1.2.1

             11 March 2014 at 6:39 pm

             I was never sure which was more jaw-dropping … How obvious the questions were or that there was actually a percentage of the class that consistently got them wrong.
   • Disraeli Gladstone 3.2

     6 March 2014 at 9:37 am

     I make a point not to blindly trusted people convicted of fraud and inside trading.

     I doubt Dotcom did donate to Cunliffe. The problem with the trust, though, is that we can’t actually be sure unless all the donors came forward. Something Cunliffe should have thought of.

     Mostly, I’m just sick of people treating Dotcom like some political hero just because he might be able to bring down Key. Ignoring the whole legal issue he’s presently in, Dotcom has been convicted of fraud. He was later convicted for inside trading and embezzlement. Since then, he also decided that rape seems like a fine topic of comedy.

     This is not a good person. If John Key hadn’t ruined his life, Dotcom would probably be one of his biggest supporters this year.

     Sigh.

     (Disclaimer for people who jump on posts without fully reading them: I’m not saying Dotcom did donate. I’m saying he’s a dick, why do we all listen to him.)
     • Enough is Enough 3.2.1

       6 March 2014 at 10:57 am

       And he donated to Banks.

       What sort of dickhead would ever give him cash?
     • MaxFletcher 3.2.2

       6 March 2014 at 3:23 pm

       +1
     • felix 3.2.3

       6 March 2014 at 8:43 pm

       Hi Disraeli.

       I couldn’t agree more with what you say about Dotcom. He would probably be in National’s election ads wearing a hilarious XXXXXXXL “I’m a Key Person” t-shirt if only he could pull it over massive knife wound in his back.

       This confuses me though: “Mostly, I’m just sick of people treating Dotcom like some political hero just because he might be able to bring down Key.”

       Who is doing this, exactly? I haven’t seen much of it around the blogs, certainly not on this one.
4. marty mars 4

   6 March 2014 at 8:19 am

   The only defence is to stay on message and laugh it off – like water off a ducks back. It isn’t easy and a politician has to have conviction and tenacity to do it – think of Hone – does anything liarkey say affect who he is or what he believes in – NO it doesn’t. The worse thing cunliffe can do imo is engage – that is apologise, backtrack, try to spin and so on. Turn it all into a joke/attack against key – it can be done but maybe not if you are after the same people. Say, “Well he would say that wouldn’t he” (knowing smile or perhaps wink) and just keep saying it. Pick a whopper lie from key and there are plenty to choose from and keep asking about it, “Johnkey (say it really fast for the mics) said he voted to save the whales and yet has been seen eating whalemeat – that leaves a bad taste in all kiwi mouths, which is it johnkey, own up and tell us – are you a whale eater do you partake of the fatty flesh (sorry went abit philu there)…”.

   Anyway there are plenty of bigbrains that can work this out but are there plenty with conviction and tenacity? Not sure about that one.
   • RedLogix 4.1

     6 March 2014 at 8:46 am

     . The worse thing cunliffe can do imo is engage – that is apologise, backtrack, try to spin and so on.

     I think that’s much the same thing as I’m trying to say on the other thread marty. It’s fatal for Cunliffe to give his enemies (and I keep using that word pointedly) any credibility whatsoever.

     Leave the defense up to others.
     • marty mars 4.1.1

       6 March 2014 at 9:05 am

       Yep I agree red
     • Molly 4.1.2

       6 March 2014 at 10:22 am

       Responding simply but honestly would be a breath of fresh air to an election year that promises to go rancid quite rapidly:

       “That must be some more gossip (rumour) he is trying to spread, because he can’t have any evidence – it is not true”.
       or even better:
       “Really Gower? What kind of evidence did he give you to make you think that was true? I don’t know where this gossip comes from”

       And then getting on with the day job of creating policy and momentum to get the country back on track.
       • geoff 4.1.2.1

         6 March 2014 at 8:03 pm

         But does Gower and co. actually ever go back to Dave C for comment? I thought the point of this article was that emperor Key says something and then the journalists just repeat it verbatim. What would be a breath of fresh air is if Dave even had a chance to respond.
   • just saying 4.2

     6 March 2014 at 8:49 am

     I’m inclined to agree, to a point.

     Any kind of defensiveness is fatal to the left, but admitting wrong-doing and apologising isn’t defensive imo. The parliamentary left need to tighten-up so that it isn’t able to be presented apologising for cock-ups in 90 percent of its media coverage.

     And now is the time to ensure all practices and procedures are transparent, lawful, and demonstrably democratic The financial affairs of every represntative should be scrutinised and ready to be accounted-for. Nothing short of a blitzkrieg will do imo.

     And present the left-wing perspective with absolutely no evasiveness or apology. Ffs, let them say what they will and let’s have this damn conversation already.

     Also, you couldn’t go far wrong by imagining what the Paganiists would do in whatever situation, saying hell no, and doing the opposite.
     • RedLogix 4.2.1

       6 March 2014 at 8:57 am

       The financial affairs of every represntative should be scrutinised and ready to be accounted-for. Nothing short of a blitzkrieg will do imo.

       What you say makes sense from our left-wing perspective js – but you might want to anticipate how Paddy Gower would use the information falling out from such a process.

       No-one is Caesar’s wife.

       In the meantime do you anticipate National undertaking such an orgy of self-castigation?
       • just saying 4.2.1.1

         6 March 2014 at 9:05 am

         In the meantime do you anticipate National undertaking such an orgy of self-castigation?

         No, there are different standards, and there always have been in my lifetime. It’s just the stakes are higher than ever before, and neoliberalism has skewed our collective perceptions to allow the elites and their enforcers to be much more blatant.

         I don’t think there is anything we can do about the disparity of scrutiny and criticism in the msm
         • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.1

           6 March 2014 at 10:06 am

           Labour is already far too inwardly focussed. Trying to set it navel gazing objectives, tasks and standards which make it even more inwardly focussed buries the party even further into electoral and historical irrelevancy.
           • TightyRighty 4.2.1.1.1.1

             6 March 2014 at 12:27 pm

             electoral scrutiny hurts doesn’t it? your saviour DC has his own american bagman now. how does it feel to see your symbol of hope turn so quickly? national hasn’t even done anything, this is all internal.

             you’ll moan about the msm dont’ report things in a favorable light for you, but you’ll miss the point, whats being done can’t be seen favorably, given the history of whats been said by labour. this is a prime example of reaping what you sow.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.2

         6 March 2014 at 9:20 am

         Agreed. Let National go looking for H-fees. There’s policy to promote.
   • Ant 4.3

     6 March 2014 at 8:50 am

     Yep this is what I think, the back tracking is counter productive. Labour are essentially getting trolled and their response is to always react and feed the troll everytime. They’ve been doing it since HC left. Rolling over for the media, not even trying to contest it. Somehow their comms people have got so flustered that they get all conservative, reactive, and let National and the media dictate their actions.

     National use whataboutery to turn criticism all the time, Labour need to do the same and actually start fighting. That’s one thing National realise that Labour don’t seem to get, if a point is arguable they’ll go down fighting till the end on it.
     • marty mars 4.3.1

       6 March 2014 at 9:11 am

       Yep they have got it round the wrong way – instead of trying to be popular by not making waves and being compliant, they need to make waves, stick to the message and that will help them become popular. The trolling meme is very accurate and the comms people need to really think about that – stop worrying about fucking it up – guess what? You are already doing that! Get back on message and stick there ffs – into the hurricane and out the other side!!!
     • greywarbler 4.3.2

       6 March 2014 at 8:15 pm

       I was pleased to hear Shane Jones make some punchy comments in the House. He is talking about things important to all NZs but particularly those on low wages and I think they would appreciate more of this hard talking stuff. Go for the main object, don’t bother about anyone making snide comments about watching porno, whether sour socks don’t match, even if you swear a bit, get in the way. Just ensure it doesn’t get out of hand.

       Try to keep it clean, don’t be excessive, and leave the middle class sitting on the fence painting their toenails or riding their mountainbikes whichever activity best pleaes them. Let’s get some oomph into Labour, not much time on excuses, reasons, making things right, just constantly talking about vision and policy. Be like Winston, he keeps going to where he wants to be, irrepressible. At present Labour seems mealy-mouthed, half-hearted and middle class. Not yesterday’s cold potatoes, but last week’s.
   • BM 4.4

     6 March 2014 at 9:08 am

     That works for Hone because he’s a party of one which no one takes seriously.

     Everyone except a couple 100 or so Maori from up north thinks he’s a racist wanker and should be no where near parliament.
     Cunliffe unlike Hone is actually vying for the top job, it’s Cunliffe vs Key

     The plan you are describing is for Cunliffe to curl into a ball and hope Key doesn’t connect with any vital organs.
     Not a good strategy for a potential PM.

     Cunliffe has found himself in this position because of all the personal insults he threw at Key and the complete lack of respect Cunliffe has shown Key,

     Key can’t stand the man that’s fairly obvious.
     • marty mars 4.4.1

       6 March 2014 at 9:15 am

       No mate that is not the plan at all – try reading the comment – hint ‘water off a ducks back’ does not mean roll into a ball and take the hits.

       But I’m pleased a numbnut rightie like you doesn’t like it – that gives me hope.
     • framu 4.4.2

       6 March 2014 at 9:26 am

       “Everyone except a couple 100 or so Maori from up north thinks he’s a racist wanker”

       you really need to stop claiming that what you think is what all of NZ thinks
       • Populuxe1 4.4.2.1

         6 March 2014 at 3:08 pm

         How about the polls instead?
   • Blue 4.5

     6 March 2014 at 9:32 am

     Agreed. Whoever is doing David’s media training (and I really hope there is someone doing it) needs a kick up the arse.

     Never explain, never apologise. It’s the golden rule for a reason.

     Explaining is losing and apologising is suicide.

     David needs to learn these things, and if he doesn’t then he’s toast and Labour is toast.
     • Populuxe1 4.5.1

       6 March 2014 at 3:10 pm

       Never explain, but sometimes apologising can be quite effective if you cover yourself in remorse, ashes and sackcloth and dicover a convenient addiction, either sex, booze or prescription medications. I’m not sure Cunliffe has enough social credit to play the pity card though.
   • felix 4.6

     6 March 2014 at 9:49 am

     Yep, general debate was interesting yesterday. Nat after nat used their entire allotted time to speak with great passion about Cunliffe, his house, his trust, his spelling mistakes ffs, etc etc.

     When it was Cunliffe’s turn to respond, he got up and spoke about child poverty.

     The contrast was stunning.
5. travellerev 5

   6 March 2014 at 8:27 am

   Certain parts? How about the entire propaganda media will do it’s utmost to sell brand Key and lie if it has too. We have no more independent media!
6. risildowgtn 6

   6 March 2014 at 8:37 am

   Well there is a simple answer to this bias

   we take them on whenever and wherever we can

   Twitter is great for calling them out as nothing but Tory scum.

   They dont like it and its great for stress 🙂
7. Tom Gould 7

   6 March 2014 at 8:57 am

   You people really don’t get it, do you? The big chooks are either in the direct pay of tory cronies or their indirect pay. These people are bought and paid for. What do you expect from their reportage and commentary and blogging and tweeting? A simple look at the anatomy of any one of these ‘scandals’ will reveal the fairly simple way these things are put together. The only difference is the Tories and their cronies and lackeys have access big dough, and the left don’t.
   • RedLogix 7.1

     6 March 2014 at 9:02 am

     A simple look at the anatomy of any one of these ‘scandals’ will reveal the fairly simple way these things are put together.

     That intrigues me. Thought provoking.
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       6 March 2014 at 10:11 am

       Yep TG is quite correct, all these recent attacks against Labour and Cunliffe are cookbook and co-ordinated in nature. And instead of reflexively reacting all the time, the Left need to present NZers with a game changing vision of the next 10 years.

       It’s getting mighty late in the year, a “secret game changing vision that nobody knows about” is of no use whatsoever.
   • framu 7.2

     6 March 2014 at 9:11 am

     So the real question is – how do you deal with it?

     no single approach will deal to the whole problem – but a healthy dose of “so johns making stuff up again (glug glug hand motion)” followed by “arent you meant to be a journalist?” seems in order

     labour need to stop engaging these stories as if they have merit and firmly state that its a bullshit story based on unsubstantiated and obviously false claims from key that a three year old should be able to spot, and keep stating this.

     no beating around the bush – no explaining – no apologising – if the lie is spotted, stomp on it – i even think the odd bit of “average bloke vernacular” wouldnt go astray

     and on the internal side – stop making amateur mistakes – stop giving your enemies ammunition. Dont be as good as the nats – be better than them. Why? – because you have to
     • Sosoo 7.2.1

       6 March 2014 at 9:30 am

       You’re missing the point of how this works. What is being produced is bullshit in the Frankfurtian sense – the people who are putting it out there do not care whether it is true or not. Denying it or responding to it has zero effect, because they will just move on to the next “scandal”.

       What they want is for the media to always have a running story that associates Cunliffe with negative impressions. The Republicans did the same thing to Kerry in 2004. The stories don’t add up, but over time they engender a constant impression in less engaged voters that the candidate is weak.

       Tom Gould is right: the left don’t have the money or connections to do anything about it. It’s not fair, but then life isn’t fair and politics definitely isn’t. Sometimes there’s just nothing you can do but wait it out.
       • BM 7.2.1.1

         6 March 2014 at 9:40 am

         The key is to work within the current system not try and smash it down.

         Change has to be gradual, you don’t come out and pronounce that the financial system we’ve been using for the last 30 years and getting the flick.

         You’d have to be unbelievably naive if you think people aren’t going to come out fighting especially the top dogs.
         • Sosoo 7.2.1.1.1

           6 March 2014 at 10:11 am

           You mean like Labour did in 1984? That was change overnight.
           • BM 7.2.1.1.1.1

             6 March 2014 at 10:23 am

             Yep and there was a lot of suffering and anger that went on for quite a while afterwards.

             Change needed to be made, but what happened back then should have been done over a much longer period of time.

             They did say we were on the brink of financial collapse so maybe that was the only option we had, as brutal as it was.
             • Sosoo …

               6 March 2014 at 11:08 am

               I misunderstood you. I thought you were recommending gradualism as an electoral tactic, and my point was that 84 Labour managed to win without it.
               • BM …

                 6 March 2014 at 12:14 pm

                 I don’t think any one would have voted 84/87 Labour if they knew what was going to happen.
                 That was baby/bathwater stuff.
                 • Sosoo …

                   6 March 2014 at 1:18 pm

                   Muldoon had pissed so many off that Labour could have run as the Gay Liberation Front and still won at a canter.
       • shorts 7.2.1.2

         6 March 2014 at 9:51 am

         I agree with the wait it out scenario – Key and co are getting more and more confident in their fabrication of the truth, give em enough rope and they will publicly hang themselves, for good

         the telling and worrying thing is will it happen before NZ voters give them another three years – three years this country may never recover from
       • marty mars 7.2.1.3

         6 March 2014 at 10:12 am

         1 Sosoo. Although I differ on the waiting it out bit – that will just build too much momentum into the meme – the gradient will be too steep eventually to get over – better to dig away at it from the start – but not by responding to it rather using pithy one-liners barbed with humor that the public will recognise. I think he has them in him he just has to allow the lines to flow and stop trying to please everyone by being mr goodsort – fuck, practice them in the mirror until they are easy – as I say, they are in there imo. And this would not be a dirtywar but a counter to the dirt already being used, as you outlined.
   • amirite 7.3

     6 March 2014 at 9:48 am

     +1,000 Tom Gould
   • Populuxe1 7.4

     6 March 2014 at 3:21 pm

     Bombast Bradbury didn’t seem too worried about taking Mana and Dotcom money while supposedly giving “impartial” (snigger) political commentary… Though he’s not really media.
     • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 7.4.1

       6 March 2014 at 3:36 pm

       Populuxe1

       Can you not see the difference between a blogger who makes clear his political stance writing on a political blogsite and a News information source that is expected to be conveying balanced information on current affairs having a reporter taking a political stance while working for said information source and not declaring such?

       It is a pretty clear cut difference.

       What is so hard for you in understanding this difference?
       • Populuxe1 7.4.1.1

         6 March 2014 at 4:50 pm

         I said he’s “not really media” and so far today two Standard posts have cited him as though he is reliable. However, on the other had, I could suggest that assuming the MSM is or has ever been impartial is a bit like sticking your hand in the fire and then crying becuase it burns. Either way, you look foolish and hypocritical.
         • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 7.4.1.1.1

           6 March 2014 at 5:06 pm

           You don’t appear to be able to discriminate between two very different contexts, Populuxe1.

           Your inability to do so, neither makes me look foolish or hypocritical…I’m sorry to have to break the news to you, however it has to be said, that the only person such inability reflects badly on is yourself.
8. Richard Christie 8

   6 March 2014 at 9:34 am

   I think Cunliffe walked into the leadership election trust beat up.

   For the life of me I don’t know why he front-footed it and essentially broke the story unilaterally. maybe he was aware that moves where afoot elsewhere to use the issue.

   But Cunliffe broke no rules. None at all.

   Had it been Dishonest John do you think he would have raised the story?
   And if it was raised it would have been a shrug, – no rules broken, I work within the rules etc…certainly no mea culpa, that just empowers creeps like Gower and his masters.
9. shorts 9

   6 March 2014 at 10:07 am

   Can I ask where the Labour MPs go whenever their leaders are attacked – Goff, Shearer and now Cunliffe get to fight alone, meanwhile what do the bright young things (and old due for retirement mob) do?

   Count their pay and think of their personal future?

   Each and every time the party refuses to rally around its leader I lose faith in the party and those future stars whom seem more intent on job security than anything to do with our country

   Learn from national – across the party attack lines and defence lines repeated verbatim by all
   • karol 9.1

     6 March 2014 at 10:17 am

     Ummm… no Robertson and Hipkins were out on the attack against National in the General Debate yesterday, as I posted.
     • shorts 9.1.1

       6 March 2014 at 10:30 am

       good to see – though I believe my comment is generally accurate
   • Akldnut 9.2

     6 March 2014 at 11:13 am

     “Learn from national – across the party attack lines and defence lines repeated verbatim by all”

     +100

     Labour should have been able to see this attack manifesting, and repeated to a man “No rules were broken. None at all” and “This was an internal party election, we have no sway in how our opposition elect their candidates. They would do better by concentrating on how they have failed the people of NZ”.

     Then name some examples.
     GCSB, blah blah blah.

     Finish it with “When John Key and National are making up stories up we will call them on it”

     1: Key claimed on Firstline that David Cunliffe had been to TVNZ for a Labour Party meeting
     That never happened – David Cunliffe has never been to a Labour Party meeting at TVNZ..

     2: Key claims at his post cabinet press conference that Unite Union secretly donated to Cunliffe and that’s why Matt is Chief-of-Staff. That never happened.

     3: The claim in Parliament today that Kim Dotcom is one of the anonymous donors.
     That never happened

     “Front up with some proof or stop making up lies. Comon John Show me the money?”

     Keep repeating the line – make the media ask him, put him on the spot.
     Show him up for the liar he is.
     • TightyRighty 9.2.1

       6 March 2014 at 12:30 pm

       you think this about breaking the rules. the electorate is not perceiving it that way. they remember the EFA changes and the accusations thrown at national by labour at the time. then they see those same labour politicians acting as if it’s ok to have trusts when it suits them. then they go vote greens or national depending on how “left” they are.

       the media just runs with the electorates mood. they have no obligation to be nice to labour because labour and it’s supporters want them to.
     • BM 9.2.2

       6 March 2014 at 12:37 pm

       1: Key claimed on Firstline that David Cunliffe had been to TVNZ for a Labour Party meeting
       That never happened – David Cunliffe has never been to a Labour Party meeting at TVNZ..

       How do you know David Cunliffe has never been to a Labour Party meeting at TVNZ?

       2: Key claims at his post cabinet press conference that Unite Union secretly donated to Cunliffe and that’s why Matt is Chief-of-Staff. That never happened.

       How do you know that, certain donators didn’t want to be named, one of them could have been Unite?

       3: The claim in Parliament today that Kim Dotcom is one of the anonymous donors.
       That never happened

       How do you know that, certain donators didn’t want to be named, one of them could have been Dot com?
       • Hayden 9.2.2.1

         6 March 2014 at 3:50 pm

         Unite and Dotcom have both denied it, so unless you have some evidence to the contrary you should probably accept those denials at face value.
         • felix 9.2.2.1.1

           6 March 2014 at 8:59 pm

           but but but WHALEOIL SAID!

           Surely you’re not calling Cameron Slater a lying sack of shit (even though he freely admits that the truth is whatever he says it is and believes that it’s ok to make up facts to suit his purposes)?

           Say it isn’t so! That would make BM a complete fricking imbecile!
           • Murray Olsen 9.2.2.1.1.1

             7 March 2014 at 1:52 am

             Too late. The atheist god I don’t believe in made BM a complete fricking imbecile. The rest just followed naturally.

             The increased focus of the RWNJs spinning bullshit on this and TDB are making me think that NAct is quite worried about the elections. I hope they have good reason to be, and I hope enough left wingers get elected to keep Labour honest. 30 years of ACT regimes is more than enough.
10. John 10

    6 March 2014 at 10:16 am

    Unite Union could easily have donated to Cunliffe’s campaign. So could Kim Dotcom.

    With secret donations laundered through a trust, we’ll never know who Cunliffe owes favours to.
    • Ant 10.1

      6 March 2014 at 10:37 am

      Well we know that Key and Collins owe at least $55,000 in favours to Oravida. That’s how you get international endorsements from a minister.
      • John 10.1.1

        6 March 2014 at 10:42 am

        Which is the very reason it’s so dodgy setting up trusts so donations can be kept secret.
        • Ant 10.1.1.1

          6 March 2014 at 11:14 am

          Not really. Openness didn’t stop National giving $55,000 in favours to Oravida.
    • weka 10.2

      6 March 2014 at 10:38 am

      I could have donated too, but I didn’t. Do you have a reason to distrust me?
11. Tracey 11

    6 March 2014 at 10:37 am

    thats right john, everyone is a liar, except key. everyone gets secret money, except key.everyone hides stuff but only john key is transparent.

    my god he makesyou look like a fool because you post this stuff and presumably unquestionably.
    • TightyRighty 11.1

      6 March 2014 at 10:41 am

      this from the lady who blames all of labours woes on the msm.
    • John 11.2

      6 March 2014 at 10:56 am

      Key isn’t the one hiding secret donations, and forgetting to mention he had a trust that owned a house (or a large stash of cash in an offshore account like Shearer).

      The point is, with the secret donations being laundered through a trust, Cunliffe has opened himself up to all sorts of accusations of taking favours.

      And true or false, he’s put himself in a really stupid political position where he can’t defend it.

      Not today. Not at election time.
      • risildowgtn 11.2.1

        6 March 2014 at 11:13 am

        nah but hes the one with those tranzrail shares which mysteriously have been sold from within his so called blind trust.. wake up fool
      • shorts 11.2.2

        6 March 2014 at 11:14 am

        Key isn’t the one currently having to defend himself over trusts and donations…. that doesn’t mean he is blind (trust) as we’ve seen before
      • felix 11.2.3

        6 March 2014 at 9:15 pm

        “Key isn’t the one hiding secret donations, and forgetting to mention he had a trust that owned a house (or a large stash of cash in an offshore account like Shearer).”

        Bahahahaha! Of course he’s not, apart from the massive network of National party secret donation trusts and Key’s own personal network of “blind” trusts whereby he can see what’s in one by looking at the other.

        “And true or false, he’s put himself in a really stupid political position where he can’t defend it.”

        The very very worst picture you can possibly paint of Cunliffe, even with your very bent brush, is that he did something on a very small scale that Key does on a massive scale.

        That’s it.
      • Murray Olsen 11.2.4

        7 March 2014 at 1:58 am

        Key’s such an ordinary bloke he couldn’t remember whether he had 30,000 or 100,000 Tranzrail shares. In a reasonable world, he wouldn’t have been able to defend that. Why is such a large proportion of our population so bloody thick that they’re grateful he came back from Wall St to help us out? He’ll go down in history as one of the few politicians less honest than John Banks, but he’ll do a hell of a lot more damage first. If we let him.
12. Bill 12

    6 March 2014 at 10:45 am

    He’s a dead eye fish – starting to show signs of clouding. That could be a lie. It could also be the truth. Or it could just be wishful thinking.

    Incidentally, was watching a Chris Hedges interview the other day, where he pointed out that speculation used to be a capital offense. And in the present, NZ votes one in as a PM instead of stringing it up in the breeze. Go figure.
13. dave brown 13

    6 March 2014 at 11:05 am

    So if the problem is the ‘top dogs’ owning the media then Labour has a solution – ‘cull’.

    Swinging capital gains tax, Robin Hood Tax, close tax havens, close the casinos, remove private contractors from public services, and use the money to re-nationalise assets and fund PSB etc etc.

    That will send a clear message to the top 1% that its ‘game on’ and rally the 99% behind a vision for a new society. Of course there will be blood in the water – the parasites.
    • Akldnut 13.1

      6 March 2014 at 11:29 am

      Great call dave , especially blood in the water. The sooner we flick these leeches and take control of our system the better.
      • BM 13.1.1

        6 March 2014 at 11:45 am

        You do realize that the majority of the population have no problem with the current system?
        • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1.1

          6 March 2014 at 12:04 pm

          You do realise the majority actually do have a problem with the system, but they just don’t know that the system can be changed because the system tells them that no change to the system is possible?
          • BM 13.1.1.1.1

            6 March 2014 at 12:12 pm

            How can you say that?

            Where’s the rioting in the streets?, the poor poll results?, the clamor for change?.

            I see nothing but people getting on with life and trying to make the most of it

            This need for change is only being driven by a small group left extremists who hate capitalism and don’t give a toss about what anyone else thinks.
            • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1.1.1.1

              6 March 2014 at 12:28 pm

              How can I say it? Because it’s true. Capitalism relies on ignorance and cheap distractions. Bread and circuses have been keeping the majority from questioning their lot for millenia. If we’ve learnt nothing else from 30 years of neo-liberalism it’s that capitalism is the biggest lie mankind has ever known. The experiment has failed, time for us all to move on.
            • gnomic 13.1.1.1.1.2

              6 March 2014 at 10:03 pm

              Ninny. No guilt about wasting oxygen?
    • Sosoo 13.2

      6 March 2014 at 11:55 am

      They won’t even get that far. Helen Clark tried some mild electoral reforms and the pig media went nuts.
14. e-clectic 14

    6 March 2014 at 11:10 am

    One of the root problems for unity on the left is that the left starts from a base of principles and the right starts from a base of power. They know it’s all about winning while we wring our hands about “is it right?”.
    So we need to be clear on our objective and what we have in common.
    The right (+ media) will keep trying to drive wedges between left factions, Labour/Greens, Mana and anyone and so on.
    A key message could be “We are different and that’s healthy and a reflection of our MMP system – but what we are in complete agreement about is that the Key government is not good for New Zealand or for the bulk of New Zealanders”.
15. Tracey 15

    6 March 2014 at 11:19 am

    tightyrighty

    in your imagination maybe. i didnt vote labour at the last election and i wont in sept oct or nov this year.

    john, your selective memory where key is concerned is sad. you will find that i posted about cunliffes trust crap, and suggested that, with permission from the donors, he should reveal who they were.

    i dont blindly excuse labour or their mps at all. unlike you and tightyrighty who rationalise ans justify like spinning tops to avoid admitting mr key lies. where is your demand for proof from key that cunliffe attended a labour party meeting at tvnz, or got money from dotcom? there is none, cos you like him, you enable his crap, seemingly blind to the damage and how foolish it makes you look.

    i thought clark was stupid and dishonest to sign a painting she didnt paint, even for charity. i think len brown should resign. so take your allegations of labour blindness and shove them up your thinking orifices.
16. xtasy 16

    6 March 2014 at 11:48 am

    Remember Key’s earlier “career”:

    http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/close-up-big-dealers-john-key-1987

    “The intrepid reporter heads into “the pit” (trading room) and chronicles the working life of a senior ‘forex’ dealer, 25-year-old squash-playing accountancy graduate, John Key. The “smiling assassin” (and future Prime Minister) is a now-familiar calm and earnest presence amongst the young cowboys playing for fortunes and Porsches in the heady pre-sharemarket crash world: “they’re like addicts who eat, breathe and sleep foreign exchange dealing”.”

    “John Key and his vineyard investments”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Key-and-his-vineyard-investments/tabid/1382/articleID/157713/Default.aspx

    “Prime Minister John Key once said his blind trust was “so blind I haven’t got a clue what’s in it”.

    “Mr Key put his assets in a blind trust soon after taking power in late 2008. It basically means someone else takes control of his assets. He knows nothing about what’s going on, and therefore is protected against being accused of conflicts of interest over what he owns.”

    Read down the bottom of that article:
    “DISCLAIMER: Patrick Gower was given a bottle of the “PM’s Pinot”, which he was grateful for. He gave it to a relative soon afterwards and well before research on this story began. It had long been drunk when he checked back.”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/key-continues-deny-blind-trust-accusations-3570323

    “Labour claims Whitechapel was set up to mirror the actions of Aldgate in order for the Prime Minister to monitor his investments. However, Key denies any knowledge of Whitechapel or its operations. “I don’t know what’s in my blind trust,” says Key.

    But several links have been pointed out. Whitechapel has investments in wine, dairy and property companies that John Key previously had interests in also. Aldgate and Whitechapel are both names of tube stations in London where the Prime Minister used to live, and the director of Whitechapel works as a lawyer for John Key.”

    Also of interest:
    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/john-key-and-the-things-he-does-not-want-you-to-know-part-1-the-attack-on-the-nz-dollar-in-1987/

    http://pundit.co.nz/content/keys-uranium-shares-gone-by-lunchtime-but-what-about-the-rest

    http://www.thepaepae.com/blind-trust-hang-on-isnt-that-a-ruse/24115/

    And this one:
    http://www.converge.org.nz/watchdog/31/08.html

    “However when it was pointed out that our Inland Revenue Department Website says tax avoidance is wrong Dunne went silent and refused further interviews but was backed up by Prime Minister John Key who said Dunne was right. “He’ll be using the absolutely correct technical term. There are two things, going back to my days at university – tax evasion and tax avoidance. There is actually quite legitimate business in New Zealand for servicing foreign trusts”.”

    This is just half an hours brief internet searching on Key and “trust investments” and the likes, and it tells us, who is more “TRICKY” than anyone else sitting in the House of Parliament.
17. Penny Bright 17

    6 March 2014 at 11:58 am

    More John Key lies?

    We shall see………………….

    FYI

    6 March 2014

    NZ Prime Minister
    John Key

    OPEN LETTER / OIA request – re: the alleged ‘conflict of interest’ of Minister of Justice Judith Collin’s perceived endorsement of Oravida milk.

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please provide a copy of the advice purportedly provided by the Cabinet Office, upon which you are relying, which substantiates your following reported statement:

    Prime Minister John Key said the Cabinet Office “unequivocally .. said no there’s no breach.”

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    …………………..

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11214597

    Collins told Oravida its milk was ‘nice’
18. tsmithfield 18

    6 March 2014 at 12:03 pm

    Seems to me that there is too much focus on John Key playing politics. You should be focusing on the enemy within. It seems to me those clandestine forces are doing much more harm to Cunliffes prospects that John Key ever could.
    • felix 18.1

      6 March 2014 at 9:21 pm

      You mean “Please stop talking about Key and his dodgy dealings, and get back to attacking each other instead”?

      Um no, but thanks for the concern.
19. Adrian 19

    6 March 2014 at 12:31 pm

    Why these sudden coordinated attacks on DC ? They look like panic, and is it a coincidence that Keys only lifelines have recently turned out to be lunatic conspiracy theorists and incest approvers. Key also knows what Dotcom knows and that court case is going to be a cracker, if KDC gets to it. He should invest in an XXXXL bullet proof jacket and not fly in helicopters.
    The Nats have done the sums and the polling and are shitting themselves.
    If it wasn’t DC, like Goff and Shearer before him, it would be anybody else who got the job.
    These arseholes would do a hacket job on anyone who got the LP job from the Pope to Ed Hillary and as for that Mary Teresa, what was she doing with all those small children under one roof in Calcutta.
    • tsmithfield 19.1

      6 March 2014 at 12:34 pm

      See above. Why do you assume National is responsible?
      • Puckish Rouge 19.1.1

        6 March 2014 at 2:33 pm

        Because the implication, that this is coming from within, is too horrible to consider so any alternative is better
        • tsmithfield 19.1.1.1

          6 March 2014 at 3:17 pm

          My thoughts as well. The lack of reply from lefties to my question seems to confirm that.

          If this is coming from inside the LP, then obviously, someone has an agenda, and the leaks are likely to keep coming.
          • Hayden 19.1.1.1.1

            6 March 2014 at 3:58 pm

            *insert Winston Wolf quote here

            Your attempted “pwned” aside, most of these are hardly “leaks”; hell, half of it’s available through Parliament’s own web site, if you care to look and then blow it out of all proportion.
          • Puckish Rouge 19.1.1.1.2

            6 March 2014 at 4:00 pm

            Willing to sabotage the next election to ensure Cunliffe gets the flick perhaps?
            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 19.1.1.1.2.1

              6 March 2014 at 5:08 pm

              Snore
20. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 20

    6 March 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Good one for sharing this information Zetetic.

    Similar to a comment I posted on ‘The Daily Blog’ yet I think there is merit in repeating it here:

    I trust that had Labour been in power we would not have:

    had a dodgy GCSB bill passed
    had a democratically elected authority ‘sacked’ (Ecan)
    had official conservation reports meddled with for private interest and polluting irrigation schemes to be pushed as publically beneficial (and thus publically funded) throughout the country
    Novopay debacle
    Asset sales
    Privacy breaches (likely arising from cavalier culture toward the public coming from ‘on high’)
    retrospective legislation pushed through to protect errors made by the police
    Financial support for poor families needing legal help removed
    Schemes teaching adults, already failed by the system, to learn to read taken away
    Financial support for higher education for people over 40 taken away people to le learning to read
    Schools spending so much time on assessing students that their learning is compromised
    Contracts awarded to overseas companies when NZ companies were available to do the work
    Informative TV stations removed
    Tax cuts for people already wealthy in a recession
    Non response to severely degenerate work safety condition.
    Dodgy response to Pike River Mine disaster
    Minimum wage not going up enough for years
    As bad unemployment levels
    As high debt
    [add more here]

    National have proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy – so all they can do is try and paint Mr Cunliffe, as the leader of Labour, as untrustworthy – in order to distract voters from the real situation going on and the real choice that voters have at the end of this year.

    It is really distressing to see our major media sources joining in on National propaganda and wanting to fool people into voting against their own interests in this way
21. captain hook 21

    6 March 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Shifty Key is getting shiftier by the day.
22. karol 22

    6 March 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Imagine someone turned up at your house in a disaster, pretended to help clean up for a photo, then left again?

    Tweet from Jonathan King
    • Blue 22.1

      6 March 2014 at 7:16 pm

      Phil Goff – Rena oil spill. Spent well over 10 min shovelling for a photo op, then left. Guess that was different.
      • Murray Olsen 22.1.1

        7 March 2014 at 2:06 am

        Yes it was. The Labour Party replaced Goff as leader afterwards. When will we see Key replaced?
        • Blue 22.1.1.1

          7 March 2014 at 1:08 pm

          So, they replaced him for the photo op or losing the election? I’m pretty sure you’ve missed the point. I’m sure Key will be replaced if he loses the election too, but Karols comment was focused on getting mileage out of how politicans (only National ones of course) like to have photo ops in disaster zones.
          • Pascal's bookie 22.1.1.1.1

            7 March 2014 at 1:25 pm

            The really fucked thing tho is that Key’s Ph.Ops in ChCh aren’t even aimed at ChCh voters.
          • Murray Olsen 22.1.1.1.2

            7 March 2014 at 10:25 pm

            I’d like to think Goff was replaced for trying to use NAct policies to get Labour elected, but I’m not delusional.
23. captain hook 23

    6 March 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Key is shifty.
    There are no limits to his avarice and self aggrandisement.
24. Tracey 24

    6 March 2014 at 4:54 pm

    not all lies are created equal…

    remember keys denial about meeting with tv3s brent impey?

    then he chanfed it when caught.

    is tv3 doing payback?

    http://thestandard.org.nz/key-caught-in-mediaworks-lie/
25. newsense 25

    6 March 2014 at 7:12 pm

    Didn’t Gower run a clip from Key and then go at the end- that quote from Mr Key was incorrect (but we ran it anyway and it’s a bit late now huh?)
26. fight back 26

    6 March 2014 at 9:47 pm

    This rightwing govt is the problem and all Labours efforts should be directed in exposing and reiterating the undemocratic actions of this govt and its protectionism of the rich and privileged who are doing their up most to destroy a fair system of govt that should provide the basic human rights to a welfare state and that this focus of the National govt on punitive action on just about everything it does should be made priority no.1 in the attack zone
    This govt is fascist in its bullshit belief that socialism is the road to destruction of a society like NZds and the PM is the no.1 actor in this charade , he benefited greatly from a welfare state but his arrogance is so great he feels that this country cant do without him and his regime, get real boot these frauds to kingdom come Vote him out and take back our country from Wall St, Brussels and London. Iceland did it why not us
27. Blue 27

    7 March 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Thanks fb. Did you wipe the spittle off the screen after that one? It was 90% Incoherent gibberish and 10% psychotic.
    • greywarbler 27.1

      7 March 2014 at 2:09 pm

      With a review like that Blue I thought there must be some fire in fight back’s comment. Lovely rant and very good fight back for the stress levels. But you will do something else won’t you. otherwise it all ends up like an old balloon farting round the room before it collapses under the chair in a corner. We can have that after the Labour-winning election but it’s going to be tough work.

      Blue doesn’t have those concerns of course because he/she doesn’t really care – you know.
28. Blue 28

    7 March 2014 at 4:55 pm

    I don’t care? Certainly not about you or the deranged fb. You don’t matter at all.

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