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	<title>Comments on: McCully caught in mining conflict</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: A response to Lynn &#124; Kiwiblog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194661</link>
		<dc:creator>A response to Lynn &#124; Kiwiblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194661</guid>
		<description>[...] collectively, but I don&#8217;t think he has considered why people do, so often. First of all Eddie himself declared: The Standard can now reveal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] collectively, but I don&#8217;t think he has considered why people do, so often. First of all Eddie himself declared: The Standard can now reveal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Murray McCully. &#171; The Standard&#39;s Standards</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194374</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray McCully. &#171; The Standard&#39;s Standards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194374</guid>
		<description>[...] February 24, 2010 at 10:20 pm (Uncategorized)  Eddie does a post [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] February 24, 2010 at 10:20 pm (Uncategorized)  Eddie does a post [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194303</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194303</guid>
		<description>Except most Kiwis have access to what is it ... $38. So they have as big a chance as the MP that sparked this little hissy fit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except most Kiwis have access to what is it &#8230; $38. So they have as big a chance as the MP that sparked this little hissy fit.</p>
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		<title>By: On the news value of questioning Ministers&#8217; shares &#171; The Standard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194223</link>
		<dc:creator>On the news value of questioning Ministers&#8217; shares &#171; The Standard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194223</guid>
		<description>[...] on the same issue for which he is polling for National and its friends is having a cry over the story I ran yesterday on Murray McCully&#8217;s shares in Widespread Portfolios. The story got widespread [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the same issue for which he is polling for National and its friends is having a cry over the story I ran yesterday on Murray McCully&#8217;s shares in Widespread Portfolios. The story got widespread [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DavidW</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194200</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194200</guid>
		<description>Oh and the &quot;total war&quot; aspect, you don&#039;t have to be old like me to remember the peace (albeit strained) created by MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).  The war never got past chilled and the world is a better place for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and the &#8220;total war&#8221; aspect, you don&#8217;t have to be old like me to remember the peace (albeit strained) created by MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).  The war never got past chilled and the world is a better place for it.</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194197</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194197</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Fair enough. There is a &quot;total war&#039; aspect to modern politics which I don&#039;t think is entirely healthy, but it&#039;s much less healthy when only one side is doing it than when both sides are &lt;/i&gt;

Sad, but true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Fair enough. There is a &#8220;total war&#8217; aspect to modern politics which I don&#8217;t think is entirely healthy, but it&#8217;s much less healthy when only one side is doing it than when both sides are </i></p>
<p>Sad, but true.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194195</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194195</guid>
		<description>True. But like the cop from Rhythm &amp; Vines is currently finding out, in some circumstances even one drink is too many.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True. But like the cop from Rhythm &amp; Vines is currently finding out, in some circumstances even one drink is too many.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: DavidW</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194194</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194194</guid>
		<description>Fair &#039;nuff Lew, let the games continue,  (can&#039;t say &quot;commence&quot; for obvious reasons)

Oh and BTW I do believe in the concept of materiality.

And I know that one can&#039;t be a little bit pregnant, but you can get a little bit pissed without being fallen down drunk.

antyi-spam word = drink   WTF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair &#8217;nuff Lew, let the games continue,  (can&#8217;t say &#8220;commence&#8221; for obvious reasons)</p>
<p>Oh and BTW I do believe in the concept of materiality.</p>
<p>And I know that one can&#8217;t be a little bit pregnant, but you can get a little bit pissed without being fallen down drunk.</p>
<p>antyi-spam word = drink   WTF</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194191</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194191</guid>
		<description>The electorate will decide whether it translates into political win, though.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The electorate will decide whether it translates into political win, though.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194189</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194189</guid>
		<description>Fair enough. There is a &quot;total war&quot; aspect to modern politics which I don&#039;t think is entirely healthy, but it&#039;s much less healthy when only one side is doing it than when both sides are. The reason is as my colleague Pablo expressed last week: a government is only as good as its opposition forces it to be. Inasmuch as the opposition declines or fails to hold a government to account, that government has an incentive to be slack or ill-disciplined and enact shoddy policy, because they can get away with it. So I&#039;m all for arming both sides, having the most rigorous political debates possible, and may the best team win. 

While I do have a particular side which I generally tend to support, I don&#039;t want them to win just by turning up: I want them to have to work their guts out to win, and to be punished brutally for failing to do enough to win. That way I know that I&#039;m getting the best out of them. For this reason, my sharpest political criticism is directed at those who &lt;i&gt;just want their team to win&lt;/i&gt;, without them having to try. 

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough. There is a &#8220;total war&#8221; aspect to modern politics which I don&#8217;t think is entirely healthy, but it&#8217;s much less healthy when only one side is doing it than when both sides are. The reason is as my colleague Pablo expressed last week: a government is only as good as its opposition forces it to be. Inasmuch as the opposition declines or fails to hold a government to account, that government has an incentive to be slack or ill-disciplined and enact shoddy policy, because they can get away with it. So I&#8217;m all for arming both sides, having the most rigorous political debates possible, and may the best team win. </p>
<p>While I do have a particular side which I generally tend to support, I don&#8217;t want them to win just by turning up: I want them to have to work their guts out to win, and to be punished brutally for failing to do enough to win. That way I know that I&#8217;m getting the best out of them. For this reason, my sharpest political criticism is directed at those who <i>just want their team to win</i>, without them having to try. </p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: DavidW</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194182</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194182</guid>
		<description>Sorry about using long words Lew, sometimes they are necessary in the interest of brevity.

I don&#039;t think we are miles apart, but I think where we might differ is the in the intensity of the spotlight we shine on these &quot;servants of the public&quot;.  They are not rock stars and they are certainly not rewarded commensurate with the publicity and attention they garner.  Their private lives are scrutinised and it is as if we put them in charge of the country then don&#039;t trust them to get on with doing exactly that.  Their rubbish bins are inspected and every word they utter is recored and screened for inconsistency.  

At the end of it all I actually get heartily sick of the profile of politics in New Zealand - it is as if we have nothing else to take our interest.  I note that Australia did not used to have this level of commentary (or it didn&#039;t when I lived there about the turn of the century) but since Rudd came on the scene, it has become the dominant news  there as well.  

Perhaps it is a function of the times we live in or one of the technology available but oh, how I wish politics would take second place for a week (well for a reason other than a disaster obviously).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about using long words Lew, sometimes they are necessary in the interest of brevity.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we are miles apart, but I think where we might differ is the in the intensity of the spotlight we shine on these &#8220;servants of the public&#8221;.  They are not rock stars and they are certainly not rewarded commensurate with the publicity and attention they garner.  Their private lives are scrutinised and it is as if we put them in charge of the country then don&#8217;t trust them to get on with doing exactly that.  Their rubbish bins are inspected and every word they utter is recored and screened for inconsistency.  </p>
<p>At the end of it all I actually get heartily sick of the profile of politics in New Zealand &#8211; it is as if we have nothing else to take our interest.  I note that Australia did not used to have this level of commentary (or it didn&#8217;t when I lived there about the turn of the century) but since Rudd came on the scene, it has become the dominant news  there as well.  </p>
<p>Perhaps it is a function of the times we live in or one of the technology available but oh, how I wish politics would take second place for a week (well for a reason other than a disaster obviously).</p>
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		<title>By: J Mex</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194178</link>
		<dc:creator>J Mex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194178</guid>
		<description>$31.64.

Corruption fail.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&amp;objectid=10628128</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$31.64.</p>
<p>Corruption fail.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&#038;objectid=10628128" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&#038;objectid=10628128</a></p>
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		<title>By: J Mex</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194177</link>
		<dc:creator>J Mex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194177</guid>
		<description>$31.64. 

Corruption fail.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&amp;objectid=10628128</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$31.64. </p>
<p>Corruption fail.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&#038;objectid=10628128" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&#038;objectid=10628128</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194170</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194170</guid>
		<description>There are some words of more than one syllable in there DavidW. 

What I&#039;m trying to say, and I&#039;ll try to constrain myself to simple concepts, too, is that &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; appearance of misdeed is fair political game. Politicians who fail to be like Caesar&#039;s Wife deserve what they get. So it was with Paintergate, so it is now. No merit whatever to the allegations, but they took their political toll noetheless. So it also was with Taito Phillip Field case, which was a legitimate case of shady dealing, and was duly punished by the courts &lt;i&gt;in addition to&lt;/i&gt; the political fallout, which would have resulted even if Field was acquitted of every charge. 

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some words of more than one syllable in there DavidW. </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m trying to say, and I&#8217;ll try to constrain myself to simple concepts, too, is that <i>any</i> appearance of misdeed is fair political game. Politicians who fail to be like Caesar&#8217;s Wife deserve what they get. So it was with Paintergate, so it is now. No merit whatever to the allegations, but they took their political toll noetheless. So it also was with Taito Phillip Field case, which was a legitimate case of shady dealing, and was duly punished by the courts <i>in addition to</i> the political fallout, which would have resulted even if Field was acquitted of every charge. </p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: DavidW</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/mccully-caught-in-mining-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-194161</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestandard.org.nz/?p=31405#comment-194161</guid>
		<description>No Lew, you have got me wrong.  But if you need me to spell it out in words of one syllable for you I will. 

There was total clarity over McCully&#039;s investment.  These is no conflict of interest under any rational definition of the term.  

But if you want to see a real case of conflict that was vigourously defended on this blog at the time, have a review of the threads about Winston Peters.  One of the defences used was that the racing industry donations were legal and that the sums (hundreds of thousands of dollars) were insufficient for concern over conflicts.

Those who have posited that it is impossible to have a parliament where there is no conflict real or apparent have a fair point.  What you need though is a rational and educated public who can judge the relative forces at play and subsequently vote accordingly.  That Lew is where people will disagree and where entrenched positions are of little value to anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Lew, you have got me wrong.  But if you need me to spell it out in words of one syllable for you I will. </p>
<p>There was total clarity over McCully&#8217;s investment.  These is no conflict of interest under any rational definition of the term.  </p>
<p>But if you want to see a real case of conflict that was vigourously defended on this blog at the time, have a review of the threads about Winston Peters.  One of the defences used was that the racing industry donations were legal and that the sums (hundreds of thousands of dollars) were insufficient for concern over conflicts.</p>
<p>Those who have posited that it is impossible to have a parliament where there is no conflict real or apparent have a fair point.  What you need though is a rational and educated public who can judge the relative forces at play and subsequently vote accordingly.  That Lew is where people will disagree and where entrenched positions are of little value to anyone.</p>
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