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	<title>Comments on: Wage for minimum wage workers set to drop</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Just a little respect at The Standard 2.02</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-116261</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a little respect at The Standard 2.02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-116261</guid>
		<description>[...] he breaks stories that are then picked up by the media. We have the same thing happen to us. We broke the story on the minimum wage - that National/ACT was planning a freeze, despite the Department of Labour [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] he breaks stories that are then picked up by the media. We have the same thing happen to us. We broke the story on the minimum wage &#8211; that National/ACT was planning a freeze, despite the Department of Labour [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Biz NZ opposes minimum wage increase at The Standard 2.02</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114667</link>
		<dc:creator>Biz NZ opposes minimum wage increase at The Standard 2.02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114667</guid>
		<description>[...] we reported on Monday, the Cabinet is set to review the minimum wage. The Labour Department recommended maintaining its [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we reported on Monday, the Cabinet is set to review the minimum wage. The Labour Department recommended maintaining its [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Mallard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114655</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Mallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114655</guid>
		<description>Not only is it fair to low income families to increase the minimum wage it makes good economic sense.  Quick flow to retail, improves incentive to work, minor tax revenue for government, small working for families savings but more importantly lifting real wages incentivises employers to upskill workers and make capital investments both of which are vital to the productivity lift NZ needs to compete internationally.  $13 would be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only is it fair to low income families to increase the minimum wage it makes good economic sense.  Quick flow to retail, improves incentive to work, minor tax revenue for government, small working for families savings but more importantly lifting real wages incentivises employers to upskill workers and make capital investments both of which are vital to the productivity lift NZ needs to compete internationally.  $13 would be good.</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114648</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114648</guid>
		<description>And right on cue, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2009/01/28/124598f25cd4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Business New Zealand chimes in&lt;/a&gt; this morning with a call for a freeze on the minimum wage.

Despite John Key&#039;s talk about reducing the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand, it seems the programme is emerging for yet another stumble towards a low wage economy.  I&#039;ve &lt;a href=&quot;http://greenvoices.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-agenda-for-lower-wages/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blogged about this here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And right on cue, <a href="http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2009/01/28/124598f25cd4" rel="nofollow">Business New Zealand chimes in</a> this morning with a call for a freeze on the minimum wage.</p>
<p>Despite John Key&#8217;s talk about reducing the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand, it seems the programme is emerging for yet another stumble towards a low wage economy.  I&#8217;ve <a href="http://greenvoices.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-agenda-for-lower-wages/" rel="nofollow">blogged about this here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114474</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114474</guid>
		<description>SPC said: &lt;i&gt;Its a good test of whether this government is centrist or anti-worker and anti-family.&lt;/i&gt;

I think the government has already had that test with the fire-at-will Bill, and it failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPC said: <i>Its a good test of whether this government is centrist or anti-worker and anti-family.</i></p>
<p>I think the government has already had that test with the fire-at-will Bill, and it failed.</p>
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		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114428</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114428</guid>
		<description>Can anyone name one business which would lay off workers, if the minimum wage was increased from $12 to $12.50 an hour?

These are not wages paid to those competing in the international market place but in the local economy. 

The workers perform necessary work as carers and cleaners or in basic retail/food outlets. The demand for the most of the workers labour is not going down - this is about a small decline in turnover (food outlets) or in clients (a few businesses might look for cheaper cleaning rates when there own revenues are under pressure) reducing bottom line profits and workers pay levels being the traditional Enzed way to constrain their own costs. 

But there are no jobs to be saved by holding down the minimum wage - but if National does this - while increasing benefits by the CPI they will be reducing the incentive to work (more so if they fail to increase WFF by the inflation adjustment as well) as unemployment rises - the de-motivation for those looking for work (when finding a job will be harder) is not a constructive move. 

Its ideological knee jerk - suppress wage levels and boost bottom line profits style of thinking that creates a low wage economy with low productivity despite long hours. And to consider such an approach during a major global recession after the lesson of the failed cost cutting policy of the Depression years - break a leg John.

PS One hopes this is just politics - National resisting a campaign to restore the minimum wage back to the real level it was in 1991 (it would need to be $15 now), relenting on freezing the minimum wage and increasing it along with benefits by the CPI (keep an eye on whether the WFF payments increase by the CPI and or the other child support payments) to appear generous (as compared to freezing the wage level).  

Its a good test of whether this government is centrist or anti-worker and anti-family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone name one business which would lay off workers, if the minimum wage was increased from $12 to $12.50 an hour?</p>
<p>These are not wages paid to those competing in the international market place but in the local economy. </p>
<p>The workers perform necessary work as carers and cleaners or in basic retail/food outlets. The demand for the most of the workers labour is not going down &#8211; this is about a small decline in turnover (food outlets) or in clients (a few businesses might look for cheaper cleaning rates when there own revenues are under pressure) reducing bottom line profits and workers pay levels being the traditional Enzed way to constrain their own costs. </p>
<p>But there are no jobs to be saved by holding down the minimum wage &#8211; but if National does this &#8211; while increasing benefits by the CPI they will be reducing the incentive to work (more so if they fail to increase WFF by the inflation adjustment as well) as unemployment rises &#8211; the de-motivation for those looking for work (when finding a job will be harder) is not a constructive move. </p>
<p>Its ideological knee jerk &#8211; suppress wage levels and boost bottom line profits style of thinking that creates a low wage economy with low productivity despite long hours. And to consider such an approach during a major global recession after the lesson of the failed cost cutting policy of the Depression years &#8211; break a leg John.</p>
<p>PS One hopes this is just politics &#8211; National resisting a campaign to restore the minimum wage back to the real level it was in 1991 (it would need to be $15 now), relenting on freezing the minimum wage and increasing it along with benefits by the CPI (keep an eye on whether the WFF payments increase by the CPI and or the other child support payments) to appear generous (as compared to freezing the wage level).  </p>
<p>Its a good test of whether this government is centrist or anti-worker and anti-family.</p>
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		<title>By: tsmithfield</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114401</link>
		<dc:creator>tsmithfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114401</guid>
		<description>: &quot;TS, In my long experience with New Zealand businesses I&#039;ve notice a strong inclination to sacrifice the medium to long term for short term gain.

You are wrong to think I am making the point about maintaining wages and workforce from a &quot;lofty&#039; moral position as I am merely advocating a business fundamental that is all too often ignored or simply not thought of by many NZ managers. Often to the detriment of their business.&quot;

I would agree with you with respect to large corporates who often have substantial resources that allow them to ride through financial downturns. However, I am coming from the perspective of small business where the existence tends to be a lot more hand-to-mouth. I often feel a lot of the comments about business on this site tend to assume large corporates when there are a lot of people employed in small business.

Irishbill: &quot;Your point about taking a lower salary than your staff is interesting. I assume you did so because you expected to make greater gains once your business grew? If so you might want to explain to vto the concept of assessing business viability over a period longer than a year and against more than the current bank interest rate.&quot;

Well, I guess that is the long-term goal. It is often the case, though, that the profit in a small business can&#039;t be realised back to the owner until it is sold. For instance, in our case, we have approx $500k in stock on the shelf that is paid for by a mortgages against the houses of co-owners. As the business grows, the need for base stock, and needs for other assets tends to grow with it, requiring further funding which is met by the owners. So, while we are building a substantial asset, I would scarcely call ourselves &quot;greedy&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>: &#8220;TS, In my long experience with New Zealand businesses I&#8217;ve notice a strong inclination to sacrifice the medium to long term for short term gain.</p>
<p>You are wrong to think I am making the point about maintaining wages and workforce from a &#8220;lofty&#8217; moral position as I am merely advocating a business fundamental that is all too often ignored or simply not thought of by many NZ managers. Often to the detriment of their business.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would agree with you with respect to large corporates who often have substantial resources that allow them to ride through financial downturns. However, I am coming from the perspective of small business where the existence tends to be a lot more hand-to-mouth. I often feel a lot of the comments about business on this site tend to assume large corporates when there are a lot of people employed in small business.</p>
<p>Irishbill: &#8220;Your point about taking a lower salary than your staff is interesting. I assume you did so because you expected to make greater gains once your business grew? If so you might want to explain to vto the concept of assessing business viability over a period longer than a year and against more than the current bank interest rate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I guess that is the long-term goal. It is often the case, though, that the profit in a small business can&#8217;t be realised back to the owner until it is sold. For instance, in our case, we have approx $500k in stock on the shelf that is paid for by a mortgages against the houses of co-owners. As the business grows, the need for base stock, and needs for other assets tends to grow with it, requiring further funding which is met by the owners. So, while we are building a substantial asset, I would scarcely call ourselves &#8220;greedy&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: George Darroch</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114400</link>
		<dc:creator>George Darroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114400</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Unfortunately, unlike employees, companies can&#039;t demand higher earnings simply because they need more. &lt;/i&gt;

I think that you will find companies DO, in fact, raise their prices to account for inflation - not necessarily every year, but consistently. They also raise their prices when their inputs increase in price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Unfortunately, unlike employees, companies can&#8217;t demand higher earnings simply because they need more. </i></p>
<p>I think that you will find companies DO, in fact, raise their prices to account for inflation &#8211; not necessarily every year, but consistently. They also raise their prices when their inputs increase in price.</p>
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		<title>By: George Darroch</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114398</link>
		<dc:creator>George Darroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114398</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So how much does John Key have to increase the minimum wage by, before it is NOT considered a &quot;wage cut&#039;&lt;/i&gt;

40c.

Or 50c, if we&#039;re going to make it a round figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So how much does John Key have to increase the minimum wage by, before it is NOT considered a &#8220;wage cut&#8217;</i></p>
<p>40c.</p>
<p>Or 50c, if we&#8217;re going to make it a round figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett  Dale</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114397</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett  Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114397</guid>
		<description>Roger:

Subnormals huh?????

Boy this site becomes more tabloid each day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger:</p>
<p>Subnormals huh?????</p>
<p>Boy this site becomes more tabloid each day.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-2/#comment-114392</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114392</guid>
		<description>Pat - greater than the CPI for last year would be a good starting point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat &#8211; greater than the CPI for last year would be a good starting point.</p>
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		<title>By: roger nome</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-1/#comment-114388</link>
		<dc:creator>roger nome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114388</guid>
		<description>&quot;He he that&#039;s a rather odd nickname for it&quot;

Don&#039;t get it twisted HS - far too much potency in its head for that nick name. (p.s - feel free to moderate that Steve, couldn&#039;t help myself - been reading Freud all day).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He he that&#8217;s a rather odd nickname for it&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get it twisted HS &#8211; far too much potency in its head for that nick name. (p.s &#8211; feel free to moderate that Steve, couldn&#8217;t help myself &#8211; been reading Freud all day).</p>
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		<title>By: higherstandard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-1/#comment-114387</link>
		<dc:creator>higherstandard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114387</guid>
		<description>He he that&#039;s a rather odd nickname for it. :-)

I agree that most people reading this headline and the explanatory article by SP would completely understand what he&#039;s getting at. If it was a headline and article in the daily rag I&#039;d have far less faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He he that&#8217;s a rather odd nickname for it. <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I agree that most people reading this headline and the explanatory article by SP would completely understand what he&#8217;s getting at. If it was a headline and article in the daily rag I&#8217;d have far less faith.</p>
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		<title>By: roger nome</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-1/#comment-114385</link>
		<dc:creator>roger nome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114385</guid>
		<description>HS - i don&#039;t believe that throttling retarded right wingers causes you to go blind. If that was the case I would have needed a guide dog a long time ago. Are you sure you&#039;re a medical doctor? You do seem to be rather ignorant in the area of health ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HS &#8211; i don&#8217;t believe that throttling retarded right wingers causes you to go blind. If that was the case I would have needed a guide dog a long time ago. Are you sure you&#8217;re a medical doctor? You do seem to be rather ignorant in the area of health <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: higherstandard</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/minimum-wage-workers-set-to-drop/comment-page-1/#comment-114383</link>
		<dc:creator>higherstandard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=7479#comment-114383</guid>
		<description>Best you get your hand off it Roger Nome lest you go blind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best you get your hand off it Roger Nome lest you go blind.</p>
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