Written By: - Date published: 8:24 am, September 17th, 2008 - 70 comments
Categories: election 2008, john key, national, slippery -
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Yesterday, John Key “attacked Labour’s economic record, which he said amounted to overtaxing voters so it could put money into its pet projects”
So, what are these ‘pet projects’ and which of them National would cancel?
Well, Labour’s major spending projects have been increasing the health budget, spending more on transport (including roads, unfortunately), more money for education, interest-free student loans, more State houses with lower rents, Working for Families, 20Free childcare, higher superannuation payments, Kiwibank, Kiwisaver, Kiwirail, and lower doctors’ fees.
And National would cut which of these? Well, they say they won’t cut any but Key’s words (plus the secret agenda tapes) show that National would get rid of them if they could find an excuse.
Oh and growth under Labour has been far better than it was under National – not only faster than National could manage but faster relative to our trading partners.
It’s the details that matter but Key hopes you don’t know them and that no-one will think to ask.
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Has anyone in the mainstream media reported/researched John Key’s links with Merrill Lynch in the light of the current ML disaster? I only heard a brief negative comment about Michael Cullen for daring to mention it. But this Merrill Lynch mentality really scares me. I certainly don’t want my country’s economy run like a boy boys’ financial plaything.
Janet – you obviously didn’t see the lead item on One News last night where Guyon Espiner almost laughed in Cullen’s face when Cullen said that we couldn’t trust Key because Merrill Lynch had fallen over.
Janet…don’t show your ignorance. John Key’s links are well documentented, most recently in the New Zealand Herald’s ‘unauthorised’ biorgraphy. His links have nothing at all to do with the current ML problems and to suggest so is scaremongering and a dirty Labour/Cullen tactic.
Yes kiwi rail. Only Labour would be stupid enough to buy it.
And fair on Guyon too. I can’t believe Cullen is so politically bonkers to say that shit. It might fly in NZ First, or the deepest darkest part of the CTU, but most kiwis of normal intelligence don’t see the link.
Furthermore it begs the question, why don’t we critically examine the private sector jobs previously held by Cullen and Clark? Oh wait…
I thought I’d wondered into an alternative universe and the post was entitled thus as a description of Cullen’s inane remarks in the House yesterday. I mean talk about clutching at straws.
What about the EFA screwing the CTU, Maori, Progressive Green and Labour Party then? That was in the Herald today.
Well, National certainly wouldn’t have spent hundreds of millions MORE than the market value of a rail network.
Cullen says don’t trust a currency trader with the economy. Should we trust a history teacher?
[should we trust a man who has been one of NZ's longest serving Finance Ministers, under we've seen a record period of growth, record low unemployment, decreasing income inequality, and the future of superannuation assured? SP]
guyon espinerer doesn’t know anything. if you prefer to take his word over a minister of the crown then you are as big a fool as he is. espinnerer was the one trying to hound cullen for a tax cut on TV so his own wages would go up. what a silly venal little twerp especailly employed by TV1 because he is ignorant.
Yes obviously Randal as the word of a Minister of the Crown is such a valuable commodity.
Words such as “no..no..no”
you in the same category hs…just another blog dribbler. why dont you say something tht has content and meaning instead of these vague vapid ripostes that say nothing and just waste ink?
Sometimes I despair.
Was M Cullen really saying that because JK has a history with Merrill Lynch that JK was responsible for its collapse and is therefor not to be trusted as a PM?
No.
What he was saying was that there exists a certain mentality or head set within the financial sector ( that JK possesses) and that that mind set would not be conducive to governing a country.
I wouldn’t have thought that would be considered controversial.
Yet again the media spins it and dumbs it down to get a bit of sensationalism.
Meanwhile, a topic close to the hearts of many NZ ers (nuclear proliferation)is completely missed by the media. Read my comment on “To ask the real questions you have to know the detail” at 9:07 to see what I mean.
Merril Lynch and Lehmann have been around longer than the NZ govt. How is that short term cullen?
‘waste ink’ Randal ?
The mindset of a currency trader is to make as much money for your firm as possible. I want someone like that fighting for New Zealand’s interests. If you think he is a gambling addict or something you’re nuts.
Newsflash: According to Labour, no one who has ever held down a job making money for their employer should be PM. Only academics and public servants are allowed.
I don’t even know why i’m commenting here. I guess it’s that your nonsensical babble enrages me so.
vto: Pardon? The Lehmann Bro’s were founded 2 years before NZ had parliament (1850 v. 1852), but Merril Lynch were only formed in the early 1900′s – we’d been governing ourselves for a good 60 years by then.
However, one could ask how such an ancient and powerful institution such as Lehmann Bro’s was run into the ground after managing to survive (and quite nicely) for almost 160 years. Could it possibly have anything to do with those managing the company?
perhaps the scale of the meltdown Mrs Vanilla. My point anyway was thet cullen’s comment was typical politician bullpoo.
Jeeves above says it well.
‘Could it possibly have anything to do with those managing the company?’
Or the deregulate, hands off and trust the market mantra…
vto: Well, it could be the scale of the meltdown. It could have something to do with what PB just said. It could be the fact that in a de-regulated environment the people managing the company took stupid risks with the money they were entrusted with and then lost. I could call that gambling.
Captcha: sacred putting (That would be on a Sunday, down at the club? I’m sure the respective managers won’t have to give up their memberships or tee-off times either.)
p.s: Mrs Vanilla? Thats the first time anyone has openly assumed I’m a woman on teh internets. Interesting.
hee hee. did i get it right?
I think it was Phil who told me that I was a nutty clairvoyant when I stated some time ago when I predicted the economic meltdown of the western financial world. I thought to leave it alone at the time because of course I don’t look in a crystal ball (Although I do have one. LOL)I just read about a 112 news sites each and everyday and people far more knowledgeable predicted the current events far earlier then I. but it seemed senseless to pursue a debate on international finance with someone who so obviously has no idea.
So now I have the doubtful pleasure of saying I told you so
And the terrible thing is that this is only the beginning.
Inventory2 you are a patronising asshole and Razorlight you really show you ignorance by quoting the propaganda and totally authorised puff piece about John Key in the NZ herald.
For starters John Key is lying blatantly about his relationship with Andrew Krieger the money trader who almost caused the collapse off the NZ economy in 1987. John Key states in the interview that he worked with Andrew Krieger after the attack but that is impossible because by the time the Bankers Trust started it’s operations in NZ (August 1988) Andrew Krieger had not only left Bankers Trust (February 1988) but had left the forex trade altogether (June 1988).
Funny how the internet never forgets(Thanks robinsod). the NY Times has it’s whole archive online and available for those who are interested and Andrew Krieger was a bit of a legend when he made US$ 300 million profit for the Bankers Trust.
So if it was impossible for John Key to have been working with him when he said he must have been working with him earlier. In the timeline I have been able to establish in different interviews etc. John Key must have been working with Andrew Krieger in 1987 while he was attacking the NZ$. So his links are not that well established in the NZH it seems.
So, if John Key in an earlier interview states that he sees nothing morally wrong with almost collapsing the economy of the country he grew up in and he is prepared to lie about his involvement 20 years later when he wants to become the prime minister what makes you think he’s got our best interests at hart.
And if he is prepared to lie about this early example of callous disregard of his countries welfare than what other lies is he prepared to tell?
Jeeves. A country isn’t a company, it’s objective is not to simply make as much money in the short-term as possible. Unlike owners of financial companies, we can’t just bail out when things go wrong.
vto : does it matter? (and I’m not married)
no of course not. I actually just thought the two words went well together – the ‘Mrs’ and the ‘Vanilla’. Has a nice ring to it.
scribe…michael cullen is more than just a history teacher. if yu want to demean him with an epithet then that is your loss. His specialty is economic history and he was a professor not a teacher. and since he has been in parliament and inpower he has had the ear of the best financail brains in the world. not just the conniving traders from some shonkey financial firm that has just gone bust.
Jeeves,
Electing a banker who worked as an upon invitation only advisor to Alan Greenspan and the privately owned Federal Reserve of New York when said Alan Greenspan was just about giving money away to create the housing bubble and the subsequent subprime crisis is like giving the fox the key to the hen house.
He worked for the FRNY from 1999 until March 2001 just after the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act which was the final destruction of the regulation of the banks that had been in place since the great depression.
For your information the other three advisors represented Lehman Citibank, UBSWarburg. Oh oops, together with John Key representing Merrill Lynch that would the four banks that are now mired most in the quagmire which is the subprime crisis and the collapse of the western finance system.
“‘waste ink’ Randal ?”
LOL
Yes you can usually tell when randal has been on the computer because the screen is covered in ‘tippex’.
If you’re printing teh internets it’s a bit of a waste of paper too.
1. I never said a company and a country were the same. You know that, you’re just constructing straw men to save your stupid point that currency traders can’t be PMs.
2. I’m no expert on US banking law, but I understand that the Regulations traveler refers to applied to stop trading banks offering investment products or advice. Nothing stopped Lehmans or Merril Lynch offering any sort of investment product, or repackaging debt (which most people credit with the causing the credit crunch).
3. You do realise that Merril Lynch is a big organisation and has a large number of divisions? John Key was a currency trader and would not have been involved in the sorts of investments (such as asset backed notes) which have contributed to the credit crisis. I could explain how it all works, but I don’t expect you really want to hear the truth.
3. By your logic, given that John Key was giving advice to Alan Greenspan when the economy was going well, we should hail him as responsible for that? Are you saying that he was responsible for the credit crunch? Or just the reapeal of that Regulation? Because either way you’re full of crap (and I don’t say such things lightly).
4. When you say things like ” is like giving the fox the key to the hen house” you’re really covering for the fact that your argument stinks and you have drawn no causative links. What is he going to do? Sell the Reserve bank? What?
5. Finally, I am going to stop replying now, because the mere fact that people are engaging in debate on this ludicrous point only gives it credence.
Trav,
I think it might have been me that called you something along those lines (but I suspect not a “nutty clairvoyant” exactly…). I’m not happy with how things are going right now in financial markets, but I’m not ready to eat humble pie just yet.
Look around, and even in this ‘crisis’ economic and financial life is still ticking along. We’re probably in a global recession, but for the most part life is not so bad. We’re certainly still a veeeeery long way off from total ‘economic meltdown of the western financial world’ like the great depression, or even the 87-crash.
Part of the reason for this is that we do have open markets – there are a lot more floating ‘shock absorbers’ in the form of exchange rates, interest rates, derivatives, so on and so forth to mitigate some of the damage.
Phil,
do those “floating shock absorbers” you refer to also include asset prices (such as share prices and house prices) and unemployment levels?
They certainly seem to be absorbing a fair bit of the initial shock in the US.
… and fed bail outs? Currently considering AIG…
Ah Jeeves,
Sticks and stones and such. I hope that you realise that calling me full of crap says more about your arguments than about mine.
1/ Did you read my link about John Key lying? I support this with links to the NYTimes archive and the federal reserve of NZ. The timeline John key gives for his relationship with Andrew Krieger is impossible. The fact that it is repeated twice in the NZH makes it a conscious effort to hide the truth and divert people away from the attack on the NZ dollar. Of course it would not do for the “future” prime minister to have aided such a callous attack which almost caused the collapse of the country he now wishes to govern.
So, John Key is a proven liar.
2/ Actually 1999 and 2001 were really bad years economically for the U.S. In fact the US have never come out of the 1987 depression and the dollar has been devaluing for a very long time. The only way the US economy could be propped up was by the creation of two bubbles. One the fake IT bubble and when that collapsed in 1998 the creation off the housing bubble. Not to mention the LTCM banking collapse in which the Merrill Lynch bank lost almost US$ 1.5 billion together with other big banks (also known as the Asian crisis).
3/ According to John Key’s own website he was at some stage the European head for bonds and derivatives (deuh, the selfsame new finance products which are now causing the financial meltdown)
In the NZ herald he was quoted: “I had a whole lot of people working for me who were at the cutting edge of delivering quite complex and new and innovative products. They tended to either be a new product or into a new market, usually the emerging markets, Russia , Brazil, Argentina. I wasn’t the guy sitting there dreaming it all up, but I was the guy who was responsible for those people.” Did he foresee the problems which resulted in the sub-prime crisis? “Was it hard to predict? Not really.”
And then: “The products which underpinned the sub-prime boom – then bust – were hatched in 2004-2005, long after Key had left Merrill.
This is a blatant lie.
According to this wiki article the prices of houses in the US rose between 1997 and 2001 a whopping 124% without economic factors to support the rise.
In other words the price rise could only have been because of more cheap money and the development of the products that allowed the bankers to get rid of the bad mortgages to unsuspecting suckers such as pension funds etc.
In fact in that same interview JK’s New York boss G. Kelly Martin is quoted as saying “He worked with the Government of Singapore, the Central Bank of China, some of the big Middle Eastern pension funds, Shell and US Fidelity and Capital. He had a very good handle on a variety of financial products: one of the most senior client people we had.” (Being one of the most senior people in a bank means you are in a very small select group of bankers and not just a Forex dealer)
Not exactly Forex clients and a good handle on a variety of of financial products? you tell me Jeeves.
In fact in as early as 2004 the FBI was alerted already about the pending crisis.
In other words at the time John Key says that the subprime products were still under development the first cracks were appearing in the trillions of dollars scam.
So if John Key tells us that those products were only developed when the crisis was about to happen after a long build up it means he is lying.
Why would John Key lie about while it is so easy to disprove? He is doing so because he’s an arrogant son of a bitch and counting on the NZ ignorant punters like you Jeeves. Sucker.
Oh, and just in case you think that Wall street was were these products were developed and so John Key could not have been involved in the development of these products think again. He lived and worked off and on for 6 years according to this speech.
Thank you Jeeves you just pushed me that little bit extra to finally have the skeleton for my part 3 answer to the NZH fully authorised propaganda piece.
Arggh purgatory again. Help Iprent, heeelp.
Phil,
I sure as shit hope I’m wrong and nothing would give me greater pleasure than having to eat humble pie on this one but it’s not looking good.
America’s infrastructure is crumbling, there are no more production jobs, consumerism is down and a thousand banks are expected to collapse. 10.000 houses a day are being foreclosed on every day.
I think that NZ is a good place to be for the foreseeable future but only if we become more self sustainable in our food supply again and if we can do without trade with the US. Because the US is looking more and more like a third world country everyday. The New York mayor expects 40.000 job losses in Wall street alone. In California the funds for unemployment are running out already and cities are organising parking lots and tent camps for the new homeless the former middle class Americans.
The US$ 86 billion currently on offer to save the system is a drop in the ocean. The total banking leverage is some 50 trillion dollars. It is an absolute bloodbath.
As for the government bailing out AIG. They just added 5 trillion debt on the already shattering debt of 9 trillion to be paid off by the bankrupt American tax payer for Fanny mae and Freddy mac. America is bankrupt I fear and if they go than so does the rest of us
Travellerev, please try to keep your comments to a reasonable length.