National day of action against rape culture: 16 Nov

96 comments on “National day of action against rape culture: 16 Nov ”

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1. Demi 1

   8 November 2013 at 2:23 pm

   There is also a protest being held in Palmerston North, I will find the FB event and post it here
   • karol 1.1

     8 November 2013 at 2:26 pm

     Demi, thanks. I’ll add info about demos in other places to my post, if people add them in the comments here.
     • stargazer 1.1.1

       8 November 2013 at 10:43 pm

       we’re having a meeting in hamilton tomorrow to sort out details of the protest here. will post them when finalised.
       • karol 1.1.1.1

         8 November 2013 at 10:49 pm

         Thanks, stargazer. I’ll keep adding to the post during the week as information becomes available.
         • stargazer 1.1.1.1.1

           9 November 2013 at 10:41 pm

           thanx karol. our event will be at 7.30pm, garden place. will have a facebook page & more details by tomorrow night.
           • stargazer 1.1.1.1.1.1

             10 November 2013 at 11:16 pm

             https://www.facebook.com/events/697785343578395/
2. Demi 2

   8 November 2013 at 2:28 pm

   https://www.facebook.com/events/541878162561417/
   • karol 2.1

     8 November 2013 at 2:37 pm

     Thanks. Does the Palmerston demo start at 2pm? (the UTC+ always confuses me)
3. marsman 3

   8 November 2013 at 3:20 pm

   And some corporates are demonstrating too. Telecom, Vodafone and a host of other companies have withdrawn their advertising from Radiolive in protest at Willy Jackson and John Tamihere’s disgusting treatment of a young woman they interviewed on air.
   • Bill 3.1

     8 November 2013 at 7:20 pm

     And some corporates are demonstrating too.

     Nah marsman, a pile of corporates have found an avenue for free ‘feel good’ advertising.
   • emergency mike 3.2

     8 November 2013 at 7:41 pm

     Demonstrating? That’s being kind, covering their own arses and getting a slice of PR pie is probably more like it. I’m glad they did it, but any positive effects for the cause are purely coincidental.

     I think demonstrating implies some kind of personal sacrifice – time, effort, risk to career, etc. I’m not sure shifting your “Look at me!” advertising $$$ to a less rapey provider really qualifies.
4. Rogue Trooper 4

   8 November 2013 at 3:29 pm

   here’tis. What ever it is that is motivational or attractive about going “sloppy seconds” or thirds, dominating your partner, taking sex by abusive force or bonding with other males in the solidarity which opposes equality and acceptance of women is beyond me. Yet it is right here in good ol’ God’s Own Country , as we lumber on into the 21st Century.

   New Zealand : 100% Fresh Meat.
5. Tracey 5

   8 November 2013 at 3:29 pm

   And the radio station should suspend them until satisfactorily completing a rape prevention programme
6. just saying 6

   8 November 2013 at 3:35 pm

   Dunedin protestors are meeting at the museum lawn at 11am.
   (The Hand Mirror says 11pm, but that seems unlikely)
   • karol 6.1

     8 November 2013 at 4:03 pm

     Thanks, js. Yes the link in THM post says 11am. Have updated the post above accordingly.
7. chrissy 7

   8 November 2013 at 3:53 pm

   I was just looking at an article on Stuff regarding the RoastBusters and up popped on the left hand side of the screen a whole lot of absolute porn with multiple people. How does it get on there, how do I stop it. I am getting so much crap popping up I am afraid to use the computer.
   • BLiP 7.1

     8 November 2013 at 10:50 pm

     ‘

     Here – https://adblockplus.org/en/firefox <— other browser options are available.

     Takes a bit of tweaking to set up and capture the New Zealand variations, but not much. There are a few sites – this one included – where I turn it off to support the site, others where I have to tune it down a bit to make sure I get all the content, but most of time, especially on the MSM sites, I leave it running and never see ads. I also use http://www.ghostery.com/ to cut down on the trackers and http://proxify.com/ when going into stealth mode. The free proxify version does slow things down heaps, though.

     Handy Hint: regularly clear the cache with a good cookie cruncher to get rid of those evil “persistent” cookies which can follow you around from session to session.
8. Demi 8

   8 November 2013 at 4:11 pm

   Palmerston North demo is at 2pm, it got coverage in Manawatu Standard today as well which is brilliant
9. Crunchtime 9

   8 November 2013 at 4:19 pm

   I’ll be there at the Wellington one. Need to think of a good statement to paint on a sign…

   Good on EVERYONE for getting this happening, getting mobilised, getting involved.

   Things need to change.

   The thumbnail pic on the front page for this article looks interesting, but the full-size pic isn’t in the article. Where can I find it?
   • karol 9.1

     8 November 2013 at 4:24 pm

     I’m not sure where the original image/slide is, but it’s on this website.
10. karol 10

    8 November 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Support Our Survivors: Open letter to Avondale College, includes this:

    Following the recent media reportings of “Roast Busters”, a group largely composed of current and former Avondale students, we can no longer remain silent. As members of the Avondale College community and former students of the school we feel deeply affected by these events, having experienced Avondale as a regressive environment that does not challenge rape culture and issues associated with sexual violence.

    […]
    Because there is a lack of understanding and action taken by the school concerning these basic issues there is a perpetuation of rape culture amongst both the administration and the student body. This includes rape humour, flippant discussions of sexual violence, and victim-blaming and shaming, providing an incredibly unsafe environment for those who are survivors of sexual violence. This culture amongst the student body is institutionalized by the school administration to the point where a group such as “Roast Busters” has been able to exist since 2011, and students who perpetuate rape culture are put in positions of leadership and responsibility.

    We understand that this isn’t an Avondale-specific problem, but rather is a systematic failure of New Zealand and wider modern society, however schools are the cornerstone for the social interactions of young people and we want to emphasize the culpability of the school administration who by their lack of action have allowed for such an appalling culture to exist.
    • Rogue Trooper 10.1

      8 November 2013 at 5:25 pm

      Good Lord!
    • Bill 10.2

      8 November 2013 at 7:27 pm

      So…current and former Avondale students put together something that is fcking streets ahead of the culture on display at NZ’s most prominent left leaning blog.

      Time some of the folk around here did some deep fucking reflecting.
      • ghostrider888 10.2.1

        8 November 2013 at 8:27 pm

        😎
      • Tat Loo (CV) 10.2.2

        8 November 2013 at 10:16 pm

        OK so you’re commending and using as role models these current and former Avondale students, ex Duxs, prefects, scholarship winners, etc. who have now decided that it is the right time to step up to the plate of moral leadership – just after SHTF? Good on ya. I personally would want to know a little bit more first before lauding anyone in this way.

        So…current and former Avondale students put together something that is fcking streets ahead of the culture on display at NZ’s most prominent left leaning blog.

        And the lefties here are going to be amongst the easiest ones to work with. I imagine it will get progressively more difficult further and further along the other 96.8% of the population.
        • McFlock 10.2.2.1

          8 November 2013 at 10:30 pm

          Nah.
          Even Hooten gets it.

          Regardless of the cause, the problem of rape culture transcends the political spectrum. Key and collins don’t get it, but neither do JT or WJ.

          But as long as great leaders like the Avondale students keep standing up to confront it, despite the personal costs, we can keep moving forwards as a society.
          • Tat Loo (CV) 10.2.2.1.1

            8 November 2013 at 10:33 pm

            Oh absolutely McFlock, it’s crucial that we have great leaders who transcend the political spectrum in order to keep moving forward as a society, and I am well pleased you have found some.

            but neither do JT or WJ.

            Why do you keep using right wing examples on the political spectrum?
            • McFlock 10.2.2.1.1.1

              8 November 2013 at 10:37 pm

              I’m not calling them MLK, but some of them still go to that school.

              You reckon they should have done something more, sooner? Great. Walk a mile in their shoes first though, yeah?

              Edit: as to your definition of right wing, whatever dude.
              • Tat Loo (CV) …

                8 November 2013 at 10:45 pm

                You reckon they should have done something more, sooner? Great. Walk a mile in their shoes first though, yeah?

                LOL mate, I’ve already done high school McFlock so I have. And yeah, as I have said previously, a lot of people would have known what was going on a long time ago.
                • McFlock …

                  8 November 2013 at 10:54 pm

                  Yes. “Done high school” fully describes the moral, social and possible career dilemma they’ve faced, maybe some of them for the full two years, maybe others for only the last couple of weeks. When they are the students who should be protected, not standing up against those whose job is to protect them. But “done high school” adequately sums up their problems. 🙄

                  Hey, do you count yourself as left wing? Because you obviously don’t get it, either.
                  • Tat Loo (CV) …

                    8 November 2013 at 11:16 pm

                    Hey McFlock. Just as well my self esteem is not predicated on your labels then.
                    • McFlock …

                      8 November 2013 at 11:32 pm

                      didn’t label you.

                      But can we at least agree to be there on Saturday 16th?
                    • Tat Loo (CV) …

                      8 November 2013 at 11:37 pm

                      Fuck off, McFlock. I don’t do blog dates.
                    • McFlock …

                      9 November 2013 at 4:05 am

                      Yes, it was to be about us /sarc
                  • Rogue Trooper …

                    8 November 2013 at 11:24 pm

                    “Comes a time when good man must wear mask…nature is indeed out of balance”. Retiring to the secure wing. Night Gentlemen. “Hi ho Silver…and away”
                    😀
            • felix 10.2.2.1.1.2

              8 November 2013 at 11:06 pm

              WJ and JT are definitely not liberals but they’re still pretty much left wing. JT a bit less so, but still.
              • Tat Loo (CV) …

                8 November 2013 at 11:21 pm

                Ahhh, OK. I don’t really listen to those guys on the radio, tbh. And I never understood why JT was thought by some to be the secret connector for Labour to the ‘working class man’ or ‘Waitakere Man’ or whatever. He clearly wasn’t then (despite all the praise in the world from Josie Pagani), and he still isn’t now.
              • greywarbler …

                9 November 2013 at 12:41 pm

                JT still what? Left wing. Ha ha. Sinister comes from Latin word which comes from bad attitudes to the left. He’s left, gone off the road.
                • greywarbler …

                  9 November 2013 at 1:49 pm

                  And just a thought about Willie Jackson. He can waver in his supposed beliefs when it comes to supporting a mate or supporting a principle. A bit spongey that WJ. (I got this feeling when listening to him some time ago. I know he comes from a good family of good works but….)
        • Bill 10.2.2.2

          8 November 2013 at 11:33 pm

          Hey Tat. How about you just read the letter and contrast and compare with the large number of victim blaming/ rape excusing responses below posts written here that raised the same issues?

          Also. Where is this idea of role models coming from? I’m referring to the sentiments expressed and the understanding on display.

          Lastly. I noted that McFlock has pointed out this shit transcends left and right. S/he is correct. But that so many people on this blog just don’t fucking get it and are content to spew trite misogynistic bullshit or incorporate blindingly obvious sexist b/s into their posts is utterly lamentable.
          • Tat Loo (CV) 10.2.2.2.1

            8 November 2013 at 11:49 pm

            I think I’m seeing a lot of the same things you are seeing Bill, although obviously not all, and not through exactly the same lens. Does this shit really transcend left and right? I’m not so sure. Which government dismantled the systems monitoring gender pay equity? Crippled organisations like Rape Crisis and Womens Refuge through funding cuts? Has a laughable number of female MPs in their caucus, and the ones they have fronting this shit as Ministers really really do not get it? Makes the lives of solo mums on the margins even poorer and more miserable?

            Hootens heartfelt push back on radio was really nice, but the smashing of communities and neoliberal destruction which allows this shit to fester to the extent it has…is what he gets paid to support, and what the team he backs as a paycheck player does as a job.

            Nah mate, I must conclude that this shit doesn’t transcend left and right at all.
            • karol 10.2.2.2.1.1

              9 November 2013 at 7:42 am

              I think there is more support on the left for women’s rights than on the right, but the left also includes some patriarchal practices and policies. And some on the right are positive in the way they treat women’s issues (see Marilyn Waring for instance).

              This current Key government certainly has been no friend to large numbers of women, making life far harder for them.

              It has been a long struggle to get women and policies that impact largely on women, included in Labour policy. And it still has the Damien O’Connor and Shane Jones BS.

              Also, there are various responses here to the rape culture issue that are not so much o outright hostility (as referred to by Bill) by that indicate a difficulty (for whatever reason) with examining the ways in which rape culture can be expressed, and ways to change it. e.g. attempts to shift the focus of discussion onto another (albeit worthy in it’s own right) topisc – such as the “broader context” and ways that can avoid discussing rape culture itself.

              One of the reasons I am more inclined to vote Green than Labour, is that I still sense a patriarchal element in some of the Labour Party discourse. It’s often seen in the confrontational style that is part of the patriarchal legacy of our political system – but also on the focus on the primacy given to instrumental aspects of the economy (money, finance etc) – a very narrow focus on the economy that puts financial arrangements over people and communities.

              I’m a little wary of elements of patriarchal style in Mana, even though I am all for it’s core platform of policies for those on low incomes. The Greens have a less confrontational style that is aiming to develop a different kind of political culture.

              However, it is heartening to see some old anti-feminists, like Trotter, shift to examining the implications of rape culture.

              Change has happened within the left. But more is needed.
            • QoT 10.2.2.2.1.2

              9 November 2013 at 2:58 pm

              Is John Minto left enough for you? You know, the guy who while at Unite covered up the sexual abusiveness of a union organiser and tried to silence the people who were doing something about him?
        • Key 10.2.2.3

          10 November 2013 at 5:43 pm

          Hi!

          I’m one of the Avondale students behind this letter. The great majority of us graduated last year or are about to graduate this year, and believe me, the culture of the school is such that starting a movement from within it is damn well near impossible.

          As for “why now and not a year ago” – well, uh, I don’t know about you, but the first year of university is kind of stressful, even without dealing with PTSD exacerbated or caused by, y’know, sexual violence and rape culture at Avondale. I’m still in the middle of exams right now, actually!

          The people from Avondale I’ve maintained contact with tend to be people who have had similar experiences. We’re all a lot too busy trying to juggle full-time university (many of us out of Auckland or New Zealand, hence the largely online nature of our presence), part-time work, and (in my case, anyway) mental illness. When SHTF, as you say, that gave us a push. That told us that okay, we needed to actually talk about what happened to us and what the school was lacking.

          I don’t think our timing or using a particular current case which NZ is highly aware of is disingenuous. People are most receptive to conversation about what needs to change now – hell, we’ve been thinking about what needs to change quite recently, because prior to that we were getting on with our lives.

          A lot of us have been victims who have been silenced. Is it really our fault for trying to recover as best we could instead of actively confronting an administration which has been hostile to us? Is it really logical, when you probably wouldn’t have heard of us otherwise, to criticize us for not acting sooner (and probably going completely unnoticed)? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but it’s not like the cops did much until it hit the news. Who exactly was supposed to aid us in preventing shit from hitting the fan?

          Were we supposed to not focus on keeping ourselves safe?
          • Crunchtime 10.2.2.3.1

            11 November 2013 at 11:50 am

            Hi Key,

            Thanks very much for your heartfelt message. I’m still in a state of disbelief and shock that this has been happening, and that this has been going on for so long.

            The accusations by the SOS group and others have been levelled at those who are _responsible_ for the culture at Avondale College. Ultimately, that’s not students at all. Students cannot be expected to be responsible for these things. They aren’t the ones with power at a school. Students shouldn’t be the ones who have to take a stand against repugnant, harmful behaviour. It’s teachers, administrative staff and the principal.

            The statement in response to these accusations – that they did nothing and let this rape culture continue to fester – that they are “shocked” and “reject” these accusations – do nothing to improve things for anyone, least of all themselves. Denial of a problem doesn’t make it go away.

            I hope the staff of Avondale are now taking firm and decisive steps to ensure that rape culture at the school is well and truly stamped out, and do everything in their power – which is a lot – to ensure this never happens again.

            I would love to hear this sort of feedback from a staff member of Avondale… Hopefully in a positive way.
          • karol 10.2.2.3.2

            11 November 2013 at 11:55 am

            Thanks for your comment, Key.

            I didn’t notice it last night, but appreciate you taking the time to explain here.

            Best wishes for your studies as well as with the support you are providing each other and others.
    • karol 10.3

      9 November 2013 at 8:28 am

      Some respond in support of Avondale college.
      • Crunchtime 10.3.1

        11 November 2013 at 12:10 pm

        Well technically, it isn’t “in support of”, it’s more of a spokesperson message for the college getting offended and hotly denying everything. Not a good look.
11. Treetop 11

    8 November 2013 at 5:53 pm

    It would be great were someone able to supply red ribbons. There has never been a red ribbon day held by Rape Prevention or Rape Crisis. The colour red signifies the wounded heart.

    I expect that the white ribbon will be used due to the connection with violence. Sexual violence needs to have its own ribbon with its own message.
12. karol 12

    8 November 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Two young women on Campbell Live tonight, doing something positive: Fighting back.
13. Ann 13

    8 November 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Sexual violence awareness does have its own ribbon – teal. Child abuse (including child sexual abuse) is light blue.
    • karol 13.1

      8 November 2013 at 8:27 pm

      Indeed.
      • miravox 13.1.1

        8 November 2013 at 11:29 pm

        I’d wear both if I was there. These girls were very young.
    • Treetop 13.2

      9 November 2013 at 11:52 am

      No not correct. Overseas uses the teal ribbon. NZ rape crisis uses the red ribbon. I have made enquires regarding the ribbon and what it stands for about 12 months ago.
14. vto 14

    8 November 2013 at 9:39 pm

    time for a lynching
    • karol 14.1

      8 November 2013 at 9:44 pm

      i’m not sure where your comment is coming from vto. But the demos are against “rape culture”, not any individual.

      I’d like to see perpetrators of sexual assault and rape be dealt with via a fair system of justice.

      “Lynching” seems to me to come from as bad a place as rape culture, and is a problem not a solution.
      • vto 14.1.1

        8 November 2013 at 9:56 pm

        I see’s the wild eyes of rage …..
        • karol 14.1.1.1

          8 November 2013 at 10:01 pm

          Maybe you could actually explain what you mean, vto. Are you saying opposition to rape culture is all about some nasty vindictive rage?

          If so, I think you have little understanding of what the desired alternative is. And also, about the way many victims actually feel very intimidated and often silenced by rape and the culture that acts as an enabler. Hence the need for trigger warnings before discussing such issues.
          • vto 14.1.1.1.1

            8 November 2013 at 10:06 pm

            I thought it was pretty clear what I said. …. which was certainly not this “Are you saying opposition to rape culture is all about some nasty vindictive rage?”

            the nation is tight like a bow on this and it wouldn’t surprise me if something nasty happened again… the wild eyes of rage. . .

            we aint all so clear-headed karol
            • karol 14.1.1.1.1.1

              8 November 2013 at 10:15 pm

              Thanks for the explanation, vto. No it was not clear what you said, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked.

              There have been some mentions of (planned?) vigilante responses. I think most (if not all) who are opposed to rape culture would not condone the vigilante option.
              • marty mars …

                8 November 2013 at 10:23 pm

                I was thinking vto meant something happening to those that oppose rape culture – I hope I just misinterpreted his initial comment.
              • Tat Loo (CV) …

                8 November 2013 at 10:26 pm

                Watch out for the energy of irrationality in these matters karol. That’s the reading I take from vto’s “tight as a bow” comment.

                All it takes is a pissed off brother, or father, or partner, of one of the victimised girls, who makes a bad decision one day or one night and then it really will be SHTF.
                • karol …

                  8 November 2013 at 10:46 pm

                  Well, certainly it is a very emotive issue. It makes me think some calmness of approach is needed.

                  And that sounds like you are talking about men really not knowing how to respond appropriately to the hurt being caused to a someone close to them – so they respond with physical aggression.

                  Rather than responding with sensitivity to the victim themselves and providing support.

                  To me such violence as you indicate, Tat, comes from people not in touch with their own emotions, and thus not very open to responding to the emotions of others – people who generally tend to keep their emotions locked down.
                  • Tat Loo (CV) …

                    8 November 2013 at 10:50 pm

                    To me such violence as you indicate, Tat, comes from people not in touch with their own emotions, and thus not very open to responding to the emotions of others – people who generally tend to keep their emotions locked down.

                    Perfectly expressed, karol.

                    Yes, the stereotypical NZ male who doesn’t do emotions or self expression all that well is an over-generalised stereotype, but it’s certainly not completely untrue either.
                    • karol …

                      8 November 2013 at 10:55 pm

                      Well, Tat, maybe not only Kiwi men.

                      Actually it’s what a female friend in England used to say about men generally – after she had had a few relationships with Brit men – that generally men tended to be emotionally inarticulate. The result being that often when their emotions did get expressed they came out in very distorted ways: e.g. feelings of hurt being expressed as violence.

                      But I think Kiwis generally are seen as more reserved than Brits, even though there are a lot of similarities.
                    • Tat Loo (CV) …

                      8 November 2013 at 11:28 pm

                      Yep. And I will take this moment to resort to highly superficial Oprah style pop psychology. Do guys care? Of course they do. Many, very deeply. Do they talk about how they feel, caring? No frickin way, you just gotta be kidding. Pass another beer please, get some more onions on the barbie. But they will express it in actions, in stuff big and small, that they can do for the people around them.
                    • vto …

                      9 November 2013 at 12:26 am

                      you two are talking about different styles of communication and elevating one as superior which is a quick route to failure
                    • Tat Loo (CV) …

                      9 November 2013 at 12:33 am

                      Not superior mate, simply understanding that asking an AM radio to pick up FM means you’ll be shit out of luck.
                    • RedLogix …

                      9 November 2013 at 12:56 am

                      Tat .. I believe men are far more instinctive than most women give us credit for… and we do care at a very deep level.

                      But collectively our ability to express this has been perverted and blighted by generations of abuse, violence, exploitation, war and patriarchy. We are ruled by shame, guilt and jealousy.

                      Rape culture is a subset of the death worshiping beast ….

                      There have been a precious few moments in my life when I’ve slipped it’s noose (it’s why I still find refuge alone in the wilderness) and I know that we are not meant to live like this.
                    • Tat Loo (CV) …

                      9 November 2013 at 1:25 am

                      RL.
                    • karol …

                      9 November 2013 at 7:52 am

                      Yes I agree Tat (@ 11.28pm

                      In fact, as a student of popular culture, O have read studies of how things like soap opera (similar to Oprah in a way), are watched by women to enable them to talk with each other about people’s behaviour, emotions, relationships etc.

                      In contrast, the friend in England I mentioned before, used to talk about the way young groups of males desensitise each other through a confrontational brutalising process. So it becomes more usual for men to swap verbal abuse and insults as a way of relating to each other – albeit often in a playful way.

                      RL @12.56am – thanks for that – very important statement, that also shows a lot of self awareness. Yes, I do think many men are very caring. That is the place where most vigilante responses come from – but not as helpful a response as they may think.
                    • Rogue Trooper …

                      9 November 2013 at 11:36 am

                      RedLogix is a noble student.
    • Martin 14.2

      10 November 2013 at 4:02 pm

      did I here a moral panic just then or maybe a crossburning?
15. xtasy 15

    8 November 2013 at 10:03 pm

    Personally I have detected some serious societal and systemic issues in NZ, and again I expect to be attacked for this, but never mind. I have over many years seen, and witnessed what goes on, and that covers relationships here. The old days of simplistic “must fit and match”, and “do as we all used to”, those are long gone. Of course most people moved on, also with sexual liberalisation, but I have found so many New Zealanders only “cotton on” under the influence of alcohol or whatever other substance. That is ONE major issue, as most have NOT learned to live with emotions and true social and personal interactions, it requires immense learning here!

    My other personal impression is there is an underlying pressure and expectation in society here, that you need to meet, and it is bizarrely “correct” and “stereotypical”. You are expected to meet certain role models and behaviour types that most in many other places, perhaps except “traditional” societies, would consider to be a bit “narrow” or “simplistic”. At the same time there is a large section of society that constantly appears to see a “need” or “pressure” to prove they are not the “stereotype” and “free” and “individual” or “independent”. There is little in between.

    I feel that there is also a dysfunction at a larger scale, that is based on work and consumerist models, that most adhere to. People work and earn, and spend, and it is a given that you must do what others do, or you are just “odd’ or not one of society. This though is not just NZ specific.

    In general, I feel there are many persons these days, that do not really know anything about “relationship” at all, as they have no real idea, what it means, and cannot even relate to their neighbours around them. There has since the neo liberal take-over of society been a total denial of anything “social” or “collective”, so people have disconnected and alienated. Relationships are highly complex, involve giving and taking, and they require a mix of intelligent and emotional skills.

    But materialism and consumerism have been pushed by business, to promote their interests, and with the modern IT and mobile communication technology, alienation has reached its peak, as most are perhaps technically “connected”, but socially “more disconnected” than ever before. There is insufficient face to face contact, there is a lack of real social events, where people mix and mingle physically and face to face, it is disturbing.

    How can you expect young people, knowing none else, to develop any “social” or other consciousness, behaviour and so forth, when society is as I just described. It is absurd, to expect it, and hence we have this breakdown and what some now call a “rape culture”. It is not really a “rape culture”, it is a de-humanised society, that is the problem, where indeed it is now more about “appearance”, “flesh”, physical “bliss” rather than anything else that counts. This creates victims and predators, and it is not just on a sexual level, it is all over the place.

    I wish people would spend some thought on this, and realise, this “Roastbuster” incident is just one aspect, and the tip of the iceberg, really, in total social dysfunction, which needs to be addressed, but nobody will do it.
    • miravox 15.1

      8 November 2013 at 10:21 pm

      Fair enough observations, imo, xtasy.

      Bill said similar in his post Don’t wring your hands

      Yes, there are much wider societal issues that need to be addressed – one would be the economy serves community, not the other way around. Another is patriarchy and power. A third is ensuring institutions work for the public and are trusted to do so – that suggests greater bureaucratic openness and a general public consent to institutional purpose and processes.
    • Tat Loo (CV) 15.2

      8 November 2013 at 10:29 pm

      xtasy – thanks.
    • Rogue Trooper 15.3

      8 November 2013 at 11:05 pm

      covered a lot of salient points xtasy
    • emergency mike 15.4

      9 November 2013 at 12:23 am

      Well said xtasy. This is the discussion that should be happening of course, but we sadly live in a Seven Sharp, Paul Henry, Garner&Gower, Mr “not bovvered about it” world.

      Having said that I do feel that now more than ever, people might just be, nearly, ready to listen. It’s the culture of greed and selfishness that is killing us.
    • KJT 15.5

      9 November 2013 at 8:41 am

      Excellent and accurate comment. A stand out, when there is so much moralising, pontificating and outright bullshit being written on the subject.

      Louse Nicholas went up even more in my, already high, estimation when she said the boys involved should also ask for, and get, help.

      There is something very wrong when teenagers think that coercion, shame and force are an appropriate way to conduct their relationships.
    • Olwyn 15.6

      9 November 2013 at 9:13 am

      A very insightful comment Xtasy. I have not been able to bring myself to comment on this subject, but you have succinctly summed up the underlying issue. Predatory sexual behaviour should not come as a surprise in a society that accepts predation in almost every other area. As you point out, “Relationships are highly complex, involve giving and taking, and they require a mix of intelligent and emotional skills.” We cannot expect the young to develop those skills when so much runs on a ‘dominate or be dominated’ principle.
      • just saying 15.6.1

        9 November 2013 at 10:17 am

        Except this issue predates the neoliberal revolution, and has not been worsened by it. Increased awareness does not equal increased prevalence.

        Rape culture flourished in the highly connected, socioeconomically egalitarian and pro-social neighbourhood and community of my youth. Then, as now, the offenders were not all, or even predominantly disadvantaged people, lacking emotional and social skills.

        You make a valid point about exploitation and predation underpinning our political systems, but patriarchal beliefs and rape culture are a blight of the left as well as the right. Left-wing women activists continue to have to fight their male allies for resepct, to be heard, and for freedom from sexual harrassment and assault.
        • Olwyn 15.6.1.1

          9 November 2013 at 11:14 am

          The values of the neo-liberal revolution, however, may make it that much harder to correct. According to Dr Neville Robertson, “These young men are not growing up in a vacuum. They got the idea that this was okay from somewhere.” And from Celia Lashlie, “It’s a discussion men should be having, it’s men’s business,” she told the Herald. “It’s about men calling other men and boys on what it is to be a good man, what a good man does and doesn’t do.”

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11153921

          The bit that neo-liberalism tends to overlook or distort is “what it is to be a good man.”
          • just saying 15.6.1.1.1

            9 November 2013 at 11:54 am

            The values of the neo-liberal revolution, however, may make it that much harder to correct.

            In what ways is rape culture harder to correct now than 30 years ago?

            The bit that neo-liberalism tends to overlook or distort is “what it is to be a good man.”

            So did the political system which preceded it.

            I’m not pretending young men are growing up in a vaccuum. Nobody does. Of course this is a cultural phenomenon. I’m not unsympathetic to the plight of men in patriarchy. It’s good for everyone that we are finally having these, (often excrutiatingly difficult) conversations.
      • Rogue Trooper 15.6.2

        9 November 2013 at 11:49 am

        Lets call an ass an ass (and not a mule)

        “We know as a community New Zealand is not performing well (my bold, gottit) in this area of the law [sex crimes ]… Nothing less than a complete re-examination of New Zealand law and practice is required”.

        -Geoffrey Palmer in From Real Rape to Real Justice : Prosecuting Rape in New Zealand.
        2011.

        “You (see I’ve known) a lot of people walkin’ round with tombstones in their eyes
        But The Pusher don’t care if
        Ah, if you live or if you die

        Well now, if I were the president of this land
        You know, I’d declare total war on The Pusher man.”

        -Steppenwolf
    • Chooky 15.7

      10 November 2013 at 3:50 pm

      +100…great comments xtasy
    • Crunchtime 15.8

      11 November 2013 at 12:22 pm

      I had a great deal of trouble understanding your post xtasy. So many single words within quotes. When you put a word in quotes you remove its meaning, saying it means something different to what you think it means. When you put so many single words into quotation marks, it becomes very confusing to find the meaning of what you are saying!

      I understand though and agree: there is a lot that goes on under the surface in NZ. We’re supposedly an easy-going laid-back people, supposedly. But there is strong undercurrents of puritanism that people are only peripherally aware of, if they are aware of it at all. A strong pressure to conform – even to supposedly non-conformist behaviour.

      Materialism and car culture push us apart, atomise us, we are unlearning what relationship means, we aren’t relating to our neighbours. I have a problem with my neighbour inviting loud idiots over who jump my fence and use my backyard as a thoroughfare to the park (saving them pretty much no time over walking along the street by the time they’ve climbed 4 fences). I don’t know what to do about it! I’ve only dealt with neighbours in a lightly friendly mostly impersonal way before.

      Breaking down the barriers between us – car culture, and rape culture are both to blame here – needs to happen.
16. xtasy 16

    9 November 2013 at 12:12 am

    Re: Radio Live, I feel it is a bit hypocritical to lash out at just them. All this nonsense about getting advertisers boycott that station will achieve NONE. We should actually BOYCOTT ALL ADVERTISERS on ALL PRIVATE media, as that is the core of the problem, that is where the ROT sits, and half hearted measures to singly out some stations or whatever will NOT solve anything. Sack all private media staff and offer them contracts on public media, on decent terms, and enforcing decent, fair reporting conditions, thanks.
    • Tat Loo (CV) 16.1

      9 November 2013 at 12:19 am

      More goodness mate.
    • emergency mike 16.2

      9 November 2013 at 12:25 am

      Amen.
    • Crunchtime 16.3

      11 November 2013 at 12:33 pm

      +1. Someone would undoubtedly howl “communism” at the suggestion but I’m 100% for this.
17. Tracey 17

    9 November 2013 at 8:18 am

    Xtasy

    big ups

    remember how popular paul henry was… racist and sexist prick… but he was soooooo funny and “told it like it is”. He was part of tge problem.

    I will march for respect.

    Women and men to respect themselves and each othet. Most people are good folk who dont realise how they contribute to the bad.

    IF there is vigilantism it will prove that people still think violence is the answer to violence. Its about the victims, vigilantes make it about themselves
18. tricledrown 18

    10 November 2013 at 8:35 am

    The causes need to be examined men behaving like a pack of wild animals.
    Alcohols liberalization is one of the major causes .
    Glamourization of Alcohol tui and Export gold adds.
    Targeting young people especially students .
    The number of assaults and bad behavioir around universities where students are drinking heavily is still overlooked.
    Young Women have been taken advantage of while drunk around the campusrs of NZ virtually nothing is done .
    Because the Alcohol Industry lobby have bribed the National Party to do nothing about the $6 billion damage that alcohol does to our country every year.
    The Media is complicent by overlooking the real problems for fear of upsetting their alcohol advertisers.
    Modern Musics lyrics arr another problem have any of listened to the highly mysogynist mainly porn lyrics in at least 50% of the Music the days.
    Young children much younger than most people think are listening to this crap and are influenced by it.
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    16 November 2013 at 2:17 pm

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Links to post

1. National day of action against rape culture: 16 Nov (&15th) - The Standard: posted on 15 November 2013 at 6:14 pm
2. National day of action against rape culture: 16 Nov (&15th) - The Standard: posted on 15 November 2013 at 6:14 pm
3. National Day of Action Against Rape - today (16 Nov) - The Standard: posted on 16 November 2013 at 8:25 am

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