National – idiots on education

35 comments on “National – idiots on education ”

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1. Lanthanide 1

   1 July 2013 at 12:04 pm

   I’m surprised you get any work done with the amount of posts you churn out, r0b.
   • fender 1.1

     1 July 2013 at 12:16 pm

     Multi-talented, multitasking legend is our Rob!
   • r0b 1.2

     1 July 2013 at 12:36 pm

     I write at night, or in the early morning, and schedule ahead. You may notice that I’m not exactly active in comments these days!
2. mickysavage 2

   1 July 2013 at 12:18 pm

   National hated the traditional apprenticeship system because the apprentices were taught about the importance of trade unions at the same time they were taught about the trade. They also have this unnerving trust in the market which is not shaken by such things as reality or evidence.
   • BM 2.1

     1 July 2013 at 12:30 pm

     What a load of shit.
     I was an apprentice mechanic for the post office years ago, apart from signing a bit of paper at the beginning of my apprenticeship to say I was now in a union the only other contact I ever had with my union was when we were all getting made redundant.
     • logie97 2.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 1:06 pm

       Negotiated your own terms and conditions and pay rises each year as well no doubt …
       • BM 2.1.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 1:17 pm

         Got made redundant right at the end of my apprenticeship, so not a lot of negotiation during my duration a the PO
         • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 1:23 pm

           Bet you didn’t take the union negotiated redundancy cheque on principle.
           • BM 2.1.1.1.1.1

             1 July 2013 at 1:36 pm

             Nothing to do with the Union.
             If anything they were a complete pain in the arse, everyone was happy to move on and take their redundancy pay except for one whinging pom who decided to bitch and moan because that’s just what poms do.
             Because one individual(who was happy to get paid out and retire but for some reason wanted to be a moaning wanker) the union chucked a spanner in the works and every one else got fucked around for another 6 months before it was finally sorted.
             • Te Reo Putake …

               1 July 2013 at 1:45 pm

               “Nothing to do with the Union.”

               Apart from them negotiating it, that is. And them, according to you, managing to get a further six months work before the axe fell. Can I suggest the maoning wanchor wasn’t the pom (nice racism, btw!), but, er, you?
               • QoT …

                 1 July 2013 at 8:43 pm

                 Oh dear, TRP, do you think BM is one of those people who’s spent a lifetime leeching off the gains made by unions, which have been passed on to him by employers trying to undercut the collective agreement, but he’s convinced himself he got it all fair and square?

                 There are many unpleasant words for people like that.
             • Kevin Welsh …

               1 July 2013 at 1:47 pm

               Yeah, I found the Union a complete pain the in the arse while I was an apprentice as well BM.

               Those fuckers sticking their nose in and informing me of my rights after I committed a sackable offence (stupidity of youth – and kept my apprenticeship after the FOC intervened); ensuring I got my pay rises after completing block courses and finishing correspondence modules; negotiating a fair redundancy package after the Auckland Sun was shut down – and then organising job interviews in Australia for those interested in moving to Melbourne or Sydney; to name just a few instances…
               • georgecom …

                 1 July 2013 at 10:28 pm

                 sound like a real pack of pricks Kevin
         • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2

           1 July 2013 at 3:16 pm

           I recall the union negotiating the wage rises that we got every year.
     • weka 2.1.2

       1 July 2013 at 1:36 pm

       What a load of shit.
       I was an apprentice mechanic for the post office years ago, apart from signing a bit of paper at the beginning of my apprenticeship to say I was now in a union the only other contact I ever had with my union was when we were all getting made redundant.

       And that one experience speaks for all NZ apprentices how?
       • BM 2.1.2.1

         1 July 2013 at 1:41 pm

         Government department, if there was piss all union input there I severely doubt there was much going on any where else especially within the private sector.

         Never once went to a union meeting or met a union rep and that wasn’t because I disliked unions either, at the time I wouldn’t have even known what a union was.
         • Te Reo Putake 2.1.2.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 1:47 pm

           “Never once went to a union meeting or met a union rep and that wasn’t because I disliked unions either, at the time I wouldn’t have even known what a union was.”

           So your youthful ignorance and intellectual apathy has carried on to the present day. How delightful.
           • BM 2.1.2.1.1.1

             1 July 2013 at 1:56 pm

             National hated the traditional apprenticeship system because the apprentices were taught about the importance of trade unions at the same time they were taught about the trade

             Just pointing out what nonsense that comment was, who knows maybe if my union rep hadn’t been so completely useless, I may have had a slightly different view point of the union.
             • mickysavage …

               1 July 2013 at 2:01 pm

               Well BM you and I must have worked in completely different industries.

               Or dimensions.
               • BM …

                 1 July 2013 at 2:04 pm

                 Which was?
                 • mickysavage …

                   1 July 2013 at 2:08 pm

                   I spent three years working as a fitters mate in a food factory. The Unions were well organised there and the tradesment taught the apprentices as much about the trade as about the necessity of unions.
                   • BM …

                     1 July 2013 at 2:17 pm

                     Was that in NZ?, honestly I don’t think I ever heard the word union ever mentioned by anyone during my time working at the PO.

                     Interesting, not doubting your experience it just differs significantly from mine.
                   • David H …

                     1 July 2013 at 2:48 pm

                     Same in the meat works, and any big factory, also most govt jobs were highly unionised too.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     1 July 2013 at 3:26 pm

                     honestly I don’t think I ever heard the word union ever mentioned by anyone during my time working at the PO.

                     Then I suspect your memory’s as good as John Key’s.

                     I’ll tell you what actually happened:
                     The union negotiated all wage increases and working conditions
                     They had multiple union reps available to talk to and who were quite active
                     Then they negotiated the redundancy package

                     The Post Office Union was quite active.

                     In all this time I suspect you ignored all the things that was being told to you by the union and never went to a union meeting. All of which comes back to the old saw you only get back what you put in and you obviously didn’t put anything in.
         • fender 2.1.2.1.2

           1 July 2013 at 1:50 pm

           “Never once went to a union meeting or met a union rep.”

           Apprentices were not able to join a union till their apprenticeship was complete (when I was one), but after that I joined and enjoyed the yearly meeting at the Lower Hutt Town Hall, fond memories.
           • BM 2.1.2.1.2.1

             1 July 2013 at 2:04 pm

             Ok, I’m certain I signed a bit of paper when I started.
             Then again there was about 50 forms that I had to signed, in all honesty they could have slipped in a form selling me off as a slave to some Arabs and I would have still signed.

             One good thing was that I also signed up to some super scheme so got paid out on that when I got made redundant.
             It was like
             Me: what’s all this extra money?
             Older Person: it’s super
             Me: It sure is, woo hoo extra money.
             • fender …

               1 July 2013 at 2:10 pm

               Obviously you can’t be taken too seriously with your selective memory, and your residing in an alternative dimension.
             • framu …

               1 July 2013 at 2:13 pm

               so in short – you dont know what your talking about
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.2.2

             1 July 2013 at 3:29 pm

             I joined the union when I started at the PO, C&M branch as a trainee.
3. Draco T Bastard 3

   1 July 2013 at 3:13 pm

   “It’s almost cheaper to get a lawyer than a plumber these days,” Parata told delegates…

   After watching all the research my nephew makes around building laws and the fact that he’s had four years of training and ongoing skills updates to go with it I honestly don’t see a problem with that. Just because you’ve gone to university doesn’t mean that you automatically have a higher education or higher skills.
4. Darel Hall 4

   1 July 2013 at 9:25 pm

   In my view National didn’t gut the traditional apprenticeship system.

   Apprentices declined by 41% from a peak of 28,383 in 1987 to 16,711 in 1992. National’s action, the Industry Training Act was a response not a cause of this change (page 9 http://www.itf.org.nz/assets/Publications/Literacy-Publications/ITF-Funding-History.pdf).

   Apprenticeships have never gone away. The regulation that defined an apprentice has. That means it is difficult to count. I did some work in the mid-2000s and I calculated that the proportion of young people in structured training for a level 4 qualification (ie a basic trade certificate) in industry training alone (ie excluding institutional pathways such as Polytechnics) was just under what it was in the late 1980s. This was the peak of the old system before apprenticeships as a pathway declined rapidly due primarily to the decline in the public sector workforce and the government’s assumed responsibility to train people in this way as well as growth in training pathways in industries that weren’t part of the old order.

   The modern apprenticeships programme was successful in putting more time around young people that need support and was a great device for elevating the importance of trades training. Helen Clark and her Ministers did a good job there.

   I haven’t kept up with the policy and funding, but Modern Apprentices were a good investment.
5. millsy 5

   2 July 2013 at 9:06 am

   I keep hearing about apprenticeships being chopped in 1991/92, but seeing as I was dealing with the transition from primary to intermediate school at the time, I didn’t really know what was going on. What exactly replaced it? If was an 18 year old wanting to be an electrical apprentice back in 1992/93, what would have awaited me?

   I know I probably would have been shoved into the polytechnic system with a big student loan to be ticked off for a few unit standards, but what else?
   • Darel Hall 5.1

     2 July 2013 at 10:35 am

     The option of Polytechnic training existed and was likely what you would have done.

     The s15 transitional provisions of the Industry Training Act meant every apprenticeship started was able to be completed: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0055/latest/whole.html#DLM266250

     Fees weren’t high by today’s standards so you wouldn’t have had a large student loan.

     The ITO system (standard setting, arranging, not delivering training, assessing against standards) was in its infancy so there was very little ITO activity initially. But individual ITOs might have been more active.

     Have a look at the history as it gives a good starting point: http://www.itf.org.nz/assets/Publications/Literacy-Publications/ITF-Funding-History.pdf
6. captain hook 6

   2 July 2013 at 12:29 pm

   Hi rOb.
   Keep up the good work.
   dont let the trolls put you off.
   I wouldn’t even bother replying to them.
   They are typical tories in that they want to play the man and not the ball.
   anyway the point is that National think they know more than the teaching profession and have become schizophrenic trying to claim that the education system is broken while our kids are right up there in comparison with any other country in the world.
   As for Heka Paratai.
   She cant even reed.
   Everything must be explained to her in simple english and not to fast.
   She only understands the cost of luxury items and anything else is a mystery.

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1. The Daily Blog Watch Monday 1 July « The Daily Blog: posted on 2 July 2013 at 8:03 am

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