<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: National: it&#8217;s not worth the pay cut</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:09:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Focus on suicide at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-23408</link>
		<dc:creator>Focus on suicide at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-23408</guid>
		<description>[...] like crime, is a symptom of a society in trouble. The reforms of the 1980s and 1990s caused wages to fall and unemployment to rise. As a result, both suicide and crime skyrocketed, peaking in the late [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] like crime, is a symptom of a society in trouble. The reforms of the 1980s and 1990s caused wages to fall and unemployment to rise. As a result, both suicide and crime skyrocketed, peaking in the late [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: How would Key make wages drop? at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-20726</link>
		<dc:creator>How would Key make wages drop? at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-20726</guid>
		<description>[...] higher unemployment, putting further downward pressure on wages through labour competition (this is exactly what happened in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] higher unemployment, putting further downward pressure on wages through labour competition (this is exactly what happened in the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Key&#8217;s plan to cut your pay at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-19202</link>
		<dc:creator>John Key&#8217;s plan to cut your pay at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-19202</guid>
		<description>[...] talked about the wage issue time and time again on this blog and how the National Party has no answers on how to raise wages. They seem [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talked about the wage issue time and time again on this blog and how the National Party has no answers on how to raise wages. They seem [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Labour with its claws out at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-18995</link>
		<dc:creator>Labour with its claws out at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-18995</guid>
		<description>[...] they tell lies and try to talk this country down, we point out that today crime is down, wages are up, benefit numbers are down, there are more doctors in more hospitals, and schools have more teachers [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they tell lies and try to talk this country down, we point out that today crime is down, wages are up, benefit numbers are down, there are more doctors in more hospitals, and schools have more teachers [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: National and the wage gap at thestandard.org.nz</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-11673</link>
		<dc:creator>National and the wage gap at thestandard.org.nz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-11673</guid>
		<description>[...] as anyone who lived through the 90s can tell you, National has a shameful record on wages, as this graph of median wage growth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as anyone who lived through the 90s can tell you, National has a shameful record on wages, as this graph of median wage growth [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Key&#8217;s Brain Drain Dribble &#171; KiwiBlogBlog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-6580</link>
		<dc:creator>John Key&#8217;s Brain Drain Dribble &#171; KiwiBlogBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-6580</guid>
		<description>[...] Mr Key, National delivers worse growth than Labour, worse wage increases than Labour, higher unemployment and benefit numbers than Labour, higher crime than Labour, and now [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mr Key, National delivers worse growth than Labour, worse wage increases than Labour, higher unemployment and benefit numbers than Labour, higher crime than Labour, and now [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Icky Stinky</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1911</link>
		<dc:creator>Icky Stinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1911</guid>
		<description>I think Muzza&#039;s getting pissed at you, Robinsod!   Muzza, chill out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Muzza&#8217;s getting pissed at you, Robinsod!   Muzza, chill out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam Dixon</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1860</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1860</guid>
		<description>here&#039;s how to calcualte it:

a) get the gross median nominal income for the year (1991 $272)

b) take off tax (23.5% in 1991 leaving $208.08 net median nominal income)

c) use the RBNZ&#039;s calcuator to adjust to 2006 dollars (rather than, you know, guess) - CPI in 1991 735,in 2006 1000.  $284 net median real income in 2006 dollars.

d) repeat, graph, laugh at Farrar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here&#8217;s how to calcualte it:</p>
<p>a) get the gross median nominal income for the year (1991 $272)</p>
<p>b) take off tax (23.5% in 1991 leaving $208.08 net median nominal income)</p>
<p>c) use the RBNZ&#8217;s calcuator to adjust to 2006 dollars (rather than, you know, guess) &#8211; CPI in 1991 735,in 2006 1000.  $284 net median real income in 2006 dollars.</p>
<p>d) repeat, graph, laugh at Farrar.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1857</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1857</guid>
		<description>burt:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Since 1990 CPI inflation has averaged around 2.5%&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Economists do some odd things with growth rates based on the approximation exp(x)-1 ~ x for small x.

So if prices rise 37.5% in 15 years they&#039;ll call that a 2.5% &quot;average&quot; (i.e. 37.5%/15 = 2.5%)

Using the Reserve Bank&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/inflationcalculator/calculate.do&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inflation calculator&lt;/a&gt; I get:

272.00 $3q1991 = 370.71 $3q2006

&lt;blockquote&gt;So $272 grossed up by 46% = $503&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A 46% increase on $272.00 should give you $397.12.  Might want to take that calculator in for a service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>burt:</p>
<blockquote><p>Since 1990 CPI inflation has averaged around 2.5%</p></blockquote>
<p>Economists do some odd things with growth rates based on the approximation exp(x)-1 ~ x for small x.</p>
<p>So if prices rise 37.5% in 15 years they&#8217;ll call that a 2.5% &#8220;average&#8221; (i.e. 37.5%/15 = 2.5%)</p>
<p>Using the Reserve Bank&#8217;s <a href="http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/inflationcalculator/calculate.do" rel="nofollow">inflation calculator</a> I get:</p>
<p>272.00 $3q1991 = 370.71 $3q2006</p>
<blockquote><p>So $272 grossed up by 46% = $503</p></blockquote>
<p>A 46% increase on $272.00 should give you $397.12.  Might want to take that calculator in for a service.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam Dixon</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>no burt, i&#039;m afriad the problem is still you&#039;re an idiot.

 This time you&#039;ve forgotten to take tax into account.  you&#039;ve got to take that off before applying the CPI.

fish in a barrel mate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no burt, i&#8217;m afriad the problem is still you&#8217;re an idiot.</p>
<p> This time you&#8217;ve forgotten to take tax into account.  you&#8217;ve got to take that off before applying the CPI.</p>
<p>fish in a barrel mate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1854</guid>
		<description>Sam

I was being nice to you guys with the above numbers, from the Reserve Bank link. &quot;Since 1990 CPI inflation has averaged around 2.5%&quot;, which over 15 years gives a gross increase of circa 46%. (not the friendly 2% I first used) 

So $272 grossed up by 46% = $503 which is more than the unadjusted 2006 figure of $485. We really are going backwards compared to inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam</p>
<p>I was being nice to you guys with the above numbers, from the Reserve Bank link. &#8220;Since 1990 CPI inflation has averaged around 2.5%&#8221;, which over 15 years gives a gross increase of circa 46%. (not the friendly 2% I first used) </p>
<p>So $272 grossed up by 46% = $503 which is more than the unadjusted 2006 figure of $485. We really are going backwards compared to inflation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>Sam

If inflation has been hovering around 2% for 15 years the total effect of that 2% over time is circa 35%.

$272 adjusted for inflation over 15 years (35%) is actually $418. Your graph should be point down, which I believe is what DPF has been trying to tell you. 

So who is the moron?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam</p>
<p>If inflation has been hovering around 2% for 15 years the total effect of that 2% over time is circa 35%.</p>
<p>$272 adjusted for inflation over 15 years (35%) is actually $418. Your graph should be point down, which I believe is what DPF has been trying to tell you. </p>
<p>So who is the moron?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>Sam

$272 adjusted by 15 years of inflation to get $284 shows a total of 4% inflation over 15 years.

Not according to this: http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/Fig1.html

Inflation has been hovering around 2%-4% every year since 2000. Not 4% over 15 years.

Busted. The inflation adjusted graph is sham.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam</p>
<p>$272 adjusted by 15 years of inflation to get $284 shows a total of 4% inflation over 15 years.</p>
<p>Not according to this: <a href="http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/Fig1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/Fig1.html</a></p>
<p>Inflation has been hovering around 2%-4% every year since 2000. Not 4% over 15 years.</p>
<p>Busted. The inflation adjusted graph is sham.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: burt</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1850</guid>
		<description>Sam

&lt;blockquote&gt;burt you moron

So where is the statement that the first graph (which looks very much like an inflation graph) is adjusted for inflation... It is not.

The second one is adjusted for something, spin perhaps. Perhaps you could publish the percentage used for inflation each year and then I&#039;ll happily debate how you got $284 (as a 1991 median wage adjusted by 15 years of inflation).

Until then I&#039;m happy being a moron for being able to see the unadjusted graph for what it is, a representation of inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam</p>
<blockquote><p>burt you moron</p>
<p>So where is the statement that the first graph (which looks very much like an inflation graph) is adjusted for inflation&#8230; It is not.</p>
<p>The second one is adjusted for something, spin perhaps. Perhaps you could publish the percentage used for inflation each year and then I&#8217;ll happily debate how you got $284 (as a 1991 median wage adjusted by 15 years of inflation).</p>
<p>Until then I&#8217;m happy being a moron for being able to see the unadjusted graph for what it is, a representation of inflation.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam Dixon</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/national-it%e2%80%99s-not-worth-the-pay-cut/comment-page-2/#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=527#comment-1849</guid>
		<description>PaulL - DPF&#039;s graph only measures full time wages, Tane&#039;s meaures incomes - why is Tane&#039;s better?

first a premise: the object is to find out how much the typical person has in their back pocket and how that changed under naional and labour.  

The after tax, inflationed adjusted median income does this better than the after tax inflation adjusted median wage becuase it measures all income rather than just full time wages - so changes in the balance of sources of income distrort Farrar&#039;s figures but not Tane&#039;s.  For instance, since 2000 many high income people have shifted earnings that were previously wages into dividends or trusts, that makes am average wage measurement lower but median income is not affected and continues to show the true picture.  

Also,just measuring fulltime wages does not tell you anything about if most people have more money in their pockets becuase there is more work around, the median income does.

Basically, Tane&#039;s figures are the full picture, Farrar&#039;s are a portion of Tane&#039;s figures that have selectd for the parttern they seem to show.

(DPF&#039;s previous one only measured ordinary time wages even wose, becuase it missed out changes around penal rates, and it was a mean so subjec outler effect from a few wealthy people getting much mroe wealthy than others, thus giving a false picture of the ordinary person&#039;s income)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PaulL &#8211; DPF&#8217;s graph only measures full time wages, Tane&#8217;s meaures incomes &#8211; why is Tane&#8217;s better?</p>
<p>first a premise: the object is to find out how much the typical person has in their back pocket and how that changed under naional and labour.  </p>
<p>The after tax, inflationed adjusted median income does this better than the after tax inflation adjusted median wage becuase it measures all income rather than just full time wages &#8211; so changes in the balance of sources of income distrort Farrar&#8217;s figures but not Tane&#8217;s.  For instance, since 2000 many high income people have shifted earnings that were previously wages into dividends or trusts, that makes am average wage measurement lower but median income is not affected and continues to show the true picture.  </p>
<p>Also,just measuring fulltime wages does not tell you anything about if most people have more money in their pockets becuase there is more work around, the median income does.</p>
<p>Basically, Tane&#8217;s figures are the full picture, Farrar&#8217;s are a portion of Tane&#8217;s figures that have selectd for the parttern they seem to show.</p>
<p>(DPF&#8217;s previous one only measured ordinary time wages even wose, becuase it missed out changes around penal rates, and it was a mean so subjec outler effect from a few wealthy people getting much mroe wealthy than others, thus giving a false picture of the ordinary person&#8217;s income)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

