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	<title>Comments on: Nats&#8217; adman an objectivist fruitloop</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Krupps</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-86492</link>
		<dc:creator>Krupps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-86492</guid>
		<description>Jameson is probably fleeing the Libertarianz before their spokesperson, the utterly reprehensible Elijah Lineberry, destroys his reputation as well. This election will be entertaining for all the wrong reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jameson is probably fleeing the Libertarianz before their spokesperson, the utterly reprehensible Elijah Lineberry, destroys his reputation as well. This election will be entertaining for all the wrong reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Trond Nilsen</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85936</link>
		<dc:creator>Trond Nilsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85936</guid>
		<description>See, the thing I can&#039;t work out is how that quote makes him an Objectivist rather than just a guy with gratuitous powers of self-delusion regarding his own greatness..

Kinda like Rand seems, from what little I know of her - Randian Objectivism just takes philosophical objectivism (the fairly common sense belief that there&#039;s a reality external to our minds that we&#039;re experiencing semi-accurately through our senses)**, then races screaming of a cliff with it (somehow taking it to imply that we should then be empowered to do whatever we want in a laissez-faire utopia). 

It seems to me that many seriously nutty philosophies come when someone takes simple, commonly held beliefs, then grafts their own particular piece of crazy on top and claims it to be a special philosophy that is both provable, insightful, and unique. So, apparently you&#039;re meant to capitalize Rand&#039;s version, cos it&#039;s extra special..

Fruitloops.

I like plain old philosophical objectivism - it pisses me off that Rand co-opted it. Persuasion through obfuscation! Yay!

* Philosophical objectivism, to some extent, underlies an awful lot of discourse - you can&#039;t really take learning, knowledge gathering or discourse seriously without at least some flavour of it - for example, the scientific method is learning about _something_ through observing it - the existence of that something is generally presumed necessary. Of course, then relativism gets in the way, and you can start arguing about how many somethings there are, and whether they are subjectively experienced, but that&#039;s a whole other kettle of fish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, the thing I can&#8217;t work out is how that quote makes him an Objectivist rather than just a guy with gratuitous powers of self-delusion regarding his own greatness..</p>
<p>Kinda like Rand seems, from what little I know of her &#8211; Randian Objectivism just takes philosophical objectivism (the fairly common sense belief that there&#8217;s a reality external to our minds that we&#8217;re experiencing semi-accurately through our senses)**, then races screaming of a cliff with it (somehow taking it to imply that we should then be empowered to do whatever we want in a laissez-faire utopia). </p>
<p>It seems to me that many seriously nutty philosophies come when someone takes simple, commonly held beliefs, then grafts their own particular piece of crazy on top and claims it to be a special philosophy that is both provable, insightful, and unique. So, apparently you&#8217;re meant to capitalize Rand&#8217;s version, cos it&#8217;s extra special..</p>
<p>Fruitloops.</p>
<p>I like plain old philosophical objectivism &#8211; it pisses me off that Rand co-opted it. Persuasion through obfuscation! Yay!</p>
<p>* Philosophical objectivism, to some extent, underlies an awful lot of discourse &#8211; you can&#8217;t really take learning, knowledge gathering or discourse seriously without at least some flavour of it &#8211; for example, the scientific method is learning about _something_ through observing it &#8211; the existence of that something is generally presumed necessary. Of course, then relativism gets in the way, and you can start arguing about how many somethings there are, and whether they are subjectively experienced, but that&#8217;s a whole other kettle of fish.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ellis</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85796</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85796</guid>
		<description>Tane said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I hear Cresswell&#039;s been angry ever since Jameson crossed over from the Judean People&#039;s Front to the People&#039;s Front of Judea.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It does puzzle me, the strange goings on in small parties.  I gave up on the kiwiblog comments section when I saw a couple of Act party supporters agonising over who would be number 12 on their party list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tane said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I hear Cresswell&#8217;s been angry ever since Jameson crossed over from the Judean People&#8217;s Front to the People&#8217;s Front of Judea.</p></blockquote>
<p>It does puzzle me, the strange goings on in small parties.  I gave up on the kiwiblog comments section when I saw a couple of Act party supporters agonising over who would be number 12 on their party list.</p>
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		<title>By: IrishBill</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85781</link>
		<dc:creator>IrishBill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85781</guid>
		<description>Ruth, explain to me where I&#039;ve claimed National shouldn&#039;t employ Jameson because of his nutty politics and I may give your comment some credence. Otherwise I&#039;ll assume you&#039;ve either misinterpreted my post or you are deliberately setting up a strawman argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth, explain to me where I&#8217;ve claimed National shouldn&#8217;t employ Jameson because of his nutty politics and I may give your comment some credence. Otherwise I&#8217;ll assume you&#8217;ve either misinterpreted my post or you are deliberately setting up a strawman argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85777</guid>
		<description>This is a bit of a dog whistle Irish Bill...the vast majority of people don&#039;t know who Ayn Rand is, and they care even less. And they wouldn&#039;t know Glenn Jameson if they ran over him.

Politics has long been an option for career advancement.  I do not see why Jameson, or anyone for that matter, should have to pass an Ideological Purity Test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a bit of a dog whistle Irish Bill&#8230;the vast majority of people don&#8217;t know who Ayn Rand is, and they care even less. And they wouldn&#8217;t know Glenn Jameson if they ran over him.</p>
<p>Politics has long been an option for career advancement.  I do not see why Jameson, or anyone for that matter, should have to pass an Ideological Purity Test.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85771</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85771</guid>
		<description>&quot;common sense on steroids&quot;

If by that you mean...

 &quot;common sense blown out of all proportion by artificial devices until it doesn&#039;t resemble common sense at all&quot;

...then it&#039;s actually a pretty good metaphor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;common sense on steroids&#8221;</p>
<p>If by that you mean&#8230;</p>
<p> &#8220;common sense blown out of all proportion by artificial devices until it doesn&#8217;t resemble common sense at all&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;then it&#8217;s actually a pretty good metaphor.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85742</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85742</guid>
		<description>Ah, the Objectivist Wars come to The Standard. It&#039;s like deja vu all over again: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=494&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Official Objectivist Schism form letter&lt;/a&gt;.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the Objectivist Wars come to The Standard. It&#8217;s like deja vu all over again: <a href="http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=494" rel="nofollow">Official Objectivist Schism form letter</a>.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: Tane</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85740</link>
		<dc:creator>Tane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85740</guid>
		<description>I hear Cresswell&#039;s been angry ever since Jameson crossed over from the Judean People&#039;s Front to the People&#039;s Front of Judea. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear Cresswell&#8217;s been angry ever since Jameson crossed over from the Judean People&#8217;s Front to the People&#8217;s Front of Judea. <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Peter Cresswell</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85739</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Cresswell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85739</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;Their adman, Glenn Jameson, is an Objectivist. For those of you not familiar with Objectivism it&#039;s kind of like a cross between neo-liberalism and Nietzschean fascism...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, I&#039;d just call Objectivism common sense on steroids. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_writings&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;See&lt;/a&gt;.

And I wouldn&#039;t call Jameson an Objectivist.  Just an arsehole with bad grammar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Their adman, Glenn Jameson, is an Objectivist. For those of you not familiar with Objectivism it&#8217;s kind of like a cross between neo-liberalism and Nietzschean fascism&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Actually, I&#8217;d just call Objectivism common sense on steroids. <a href="http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_writings" rel="nofollow">See</a>.</p>
<p>And I wouldn&#8217;t call Jameson an Objectivist.  Just an arsehole with bad grammar.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Pilott</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85727</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Pilott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85727</guid>
		<description>Does anyone remember that Jameson fella who came on here a while ago?  He sure was a libertarian type.  Just wondering...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone remember that Jameson fella who came on here a while ago?  He sure was a libertarian type.  Just wondering&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal's bookie</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85708</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal's bookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85708</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;In effect, you are implying that one cannot separate their personal view from their professional occupation.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Fair enough, but isn&#039;t that inseparability business the whole point of objectivism? 

A either equals A&#039; or it doesn&#039;t Phil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;In effect, you are implying that one cannot separate their personal view from their professional occupation.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Fair enough, but isn&#8217;t that inseparability business the whole point of objectivism? </p>
<p>A either equals A&#8217; or it doesn&#8217;t Phil.</p>
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		<title>By: forgetaboutthelastone</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85706</link>
		<dc:creator>forgetaboutthelastone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85706</guid>
		<description>&quot;solo passion&quot; - nice euphemism for &quot;wanker&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;solo passion&#8221; &#8211; nice euphemism for &#8220;wanker&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85703</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85703</guid>
		<description>The advertising industry is full of stange individuals with extreemist ideals. It seems dangerous territory to start digging into the personal lives and beliefs of the Nat&#039;s (or indeed any other party&#039;s) advertisers. 

In effect, you are implying that one cannot separate their personal view from their professional occupation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The advertising industry is full of stange individuals with extreemist ideals. It seems dangerous territory to start digging into the personal lives and beliefs of the Nat&#8217;s (or indeed any other party&#8217;s) advertisers. </p>
<p>In effect, you are implying that one cannot separate their personal view from their professional occupation.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85689</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85689</guid>
		<description>I think this is a sauce for the goose sort of thing. If Helen Clark&#039;s selection of and defence of Winston Peters as Foreign Minister reflects poorly upon her and Labour (and it does), and if it&#039;s ok for Trevor Loudon to call attention to Andrew Geddis&#039; communist affiliations in and possibly after university, linking them to a supposed conspiracy to stack the electoral reform deck in favour of the left (and it is), then there&#039;s no smear at all in bringing up National&#039;s adman&#039;s political-philosophical opinions (freely and publicly admitted) as an indication of the sort of conceptual and talent pool from which they&#039;re drawing inspiration. Like it or not, the people with whom political parties and public figures associate do cast a reflection upon them - though I certainly think it&#039;s easy to make too much of this.  

Seems to be a shallower pool than I first thought. 

Anyone with a SOLO account want to ask him whether `less&#039; was intentional or not?

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a sauce for the goose sort of thing. If Helen Clark&#8217;s selection of and defence of Winston Peters as Foreign Minister reflects poorly upon her and Labour (and it does), and if it&#8217;s ok for Trevor Loudon to call attention to Andrew Geddis&#8217; communist affiliations in and possibly after university, linking them to a supposed conspiracy to stack the electoral reform deck in favour of the left (and it is), then there&#8217;s no smear at all in bringing up National&#8217;s adman&#8217;s political-philosophical opinions (freely and publicly admitted) as an indication of the sort of conceptual and talent pool from which they&#8217;re drawing inspiration. Like it or not, the people with whom political parties and public figures associate do cast a reflection upon them &#8211; though I certainly think it&#8217;s easy to make too much of this.  </p>
<p>Seems to be a shallower pool than I first thought. </p>
<p>Anyone with a SOLO account want to ask him whether `less&#8217; was intentional or not?</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: gobsmacked</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-adman-objectivist-fruitloop/comment-page-1/#comment-85662</link>
		<dc:creator>gobsmacked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=2959#comment-85662</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing that National&#039;s advertising maestro will be kept well away from their post-election negotiations with the Maori Party.

Extracts from Glenn Jameson&#039;s feedback, on Willie Jackson&#039;s &quot;Eye to Eye&quot; website, commenting on Te Reo:

&lt;i&gt;Objectively speaking, Maori is, outside of their own communities, schools and Maori TV, completely and utterly useless. And these brown clowns want to make it compulsory?! ... The moral inversion these debates create is sickening, with brown-nosing dimwits like Linda Ross-Smith bleating on about the &quot;bigotry displayed by your two pakeha guests.&quot; The only racists in that room, Hone, were the &quot;Mordi&quot; on the geographical and political left of that panel, who insist on shoving ethnic-based policies -- which are by their very nature racist -- down our throats.&lt;/i&gt;

Now that&#039;s what you call off-message!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing that National&#8217;s advertising maestro will be kept well away from their post-election negotiations with the Maori Party.</p>
<p>Extracts from Glenn Jameson&#8217;s feedback, on Willie Jackson&#8217;s &#8220;Eye to Eye&#8221; website, commenting on Te Reo:</p>
<p><i>Objectively speaking, Maori is, outside of their own communities, schools and Maori TV, completely and utterly useless. And these brown clowns want to make it compulsory?! &#8230; The moral inversion these debates create is sickening, with brown-nosing dimwits like Linda Ross-Smith bleating on about the &#8220;bigotry displayed by your two pakeha guests.&#8221; The only racists in that room, Hone, were the &#8220;Mordi&#8221; on the geographical and political left of that panel, who insist on shoving ethnic-based policies &#8212; which are by their very nature racist &#8212; down our throats.</i></p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s what you call off-message!</p>
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