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	<title>Comments on: Nats &amp; Maori Party headed for foreshore &amp; seabed showdown</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191306</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191306</guid>
		<description>I have a suggestion on how you can get over your disappointment.

Fuck off you patronising twat and get a life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a suggestion on how you can get over your disappointment.</p>
<p>Fuck off you patronising twat and get a life.</p>
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		<title>By: pollywog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191305</link>
		<dc:creator>pollywog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191305</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Hopefully someone will come up with a solution..&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I already posted mine in another thread.

Shane Jones and Hone Harawira for the win. The moderate and the radical. Maori starting with the far north would unite behind them on a labour ticket given Keys bungling of anything maori related.  They are whanaunga after all and blood is thicker than water.

It&#039;s just a matter of time before Hone pulls the pin on Turia and Sharples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Hopefully someone will come up with a solution..</p></blockquote>
<p>I already posted mine in another thread.</p>
<p>Shane Jones and Hone Harawira for the win. The moderate and the radical. Maori starting with the far north would unite behind them on a labour ticket given Keys bungling of anything maori related.  They are whanaunga after all and blood is thicker than water.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just a matter of time before Hone pulls the pin on Turia and Sharples.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191304</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191304</guid>
		<description>Pink Postman, 

Perhaps the problem is that you mistake MÄori poltics and MÄori political loyalties, with their strong communitarian elements, for a sort of brown socialism. This is a common misconception, but it is just that -- a misconception. 

That having been said, I agree that the past five years have been an enormous missed opportunity for the NZ left -- though I see this as being predominantly Labour&#039;s doing. Turia&#039;s dislike of Clark is not in the slightest bit &quot;unnatural&quot; given the fact that Clark led the biggest single expropriation of MÄori rights and resources of the latter part of that century, and even now, Labour doesn&#039;t seem to have figured out where it went wrong. 

Labour has historically treated MÄori as an electoral ATM -- votes out, occasional policy in. They are deeply in debt, and MÄori have -- more than seventy years after the original alliance with RÄtana -- have signalled that they may restrict Labour&#039;s line of credit. The sooner Labour realises that they need to make good on this debt, the better -- for the country as well as the party. A Labour/MÄori/Green coalition would be a genuine political force to be reckoned with -- but it won&#039;t happen until Labour realises where its loyalties lie.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pink Postman, </p>
<p>Perhaps the problem is that you mistake MÄori poltics and MÄori political loyalties, with their strong communitarian elements, for a sort of brown socialism. This is a common misconception, but it is just that &#8212; a misconception. </p>
<p>That having been said, I agree that the past five years have been an enormous missed opportunity for the NZ left &#8212; though I see this as being predominantly Labour&#8217;s doing. Turia&#8217;s dislike of Clark is not in the slightest bit &#8220;unnatural&#8221; given the fact that Clark led the biggest single expropriation of MÄori rights and resources of the latter part of that century, and even now, Labour doesn&#8217;t seem to have figured out where it went wrong. </p>
<p>Labour has historically treated MÄori as an electoral ATM &#8212; votes out, occasional policy in. They are deeply in debt, and MÄori have &#8212; more than seventy years after the original alliance with RÄtana &#8212; have signalled that they may restrict Labour&#8217;s line of credit. The sooner Labour realises that they need to make good on this debt, the better &#8212; for the country as well as the party. A Labour/MÄori/Green coalition would be a genuine political force to be reckoned with &#8212; but it won&#8217;t happen until Labour realises where its loyalties lie.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: pollywog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191303</link>
		<dc:creator>pollywog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191303</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I sincerely wish the left would give up on the notion of viewing Maaori as simply another type of Pakeha  we are unique peoples fighting for the right to exist as separate peoples.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just don&#039;t forget where you came from, the roots of your culture, language and traditions and that you&#039;re part of a wider peoples ( pun intended). In return we as polynesians wont forget you were here first and therefore our hosts...so umm whats for dinner ? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I sincerely wish the left would give up on the notion of viewing Maaori as simply another type of Pakeha  we are unique peoples fighting for the right to exist as separate peoples.</p></blockquote>
<p>Just don&#8217;t forget where you came from, the roots of your culture, language and traditions and that you&#8217;re part of a wider peoples ( pun intended). In return we as polynesians wont forget you were here first and therefore our hosts&#8230;so umm whats for dinner ? <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: the pinkpostman</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191301</link>
		<dc:creator>the pinkpostman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191301</guid>
		<description>As a life long Socialist the Maori Party has beeen one of disapointment .Here we had a chance for the political Left to form a partnership that would have been of benifit to all. I think Labour missed out by writting the Maori Party off and I dont know how at his stage  we can rectify that.Hopefully someone will come up with a solution..However having said that I think the real,downfull of the Maori Party has been its two leaders .Tariana Turia&#039;s unnatural dislike of Helen Clark has destroyed  any credibility she had . Sharples love of the good life he enjoys as a leader has corrupted him ,there he is living it up like some English Lord whilst  his constituents are unemployed or on low mininum wages. The soon this unworkable party implodes the better ,Then Maori need to negotiate with Labour to really get above Maori problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a life long Socialist the Maori Party has beeen one of disapointment .Here we had a chance for the political Left to form a partnership that would have been of benifit to all. I think Labour missed out by writting the Maori Party off and I dont know how at his stage  we can rectify that.Hopefully someone will come up with a solution..However having said that I think the real,downfull of the Maori Party has been its two leaders .Tariana Turia&#8217;s unnatural dislike of Helen Clark has destroyed  any credibility she had . Sharples love of the good life he enjoys as a leader has corrupted him ,there he is living it up like some English Lord whilst  his constituents are unemployed or on low mininum wages. The soon this unworkable party implodes the better ,Then Maori need to negotiate with Labour to really get above Maori problems.</p>
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		<title>By: the pinkpostman</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191299</link>
		<dc:creator>the pinkpostman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191299</guid>
		<description>As a life long Socialist I must say that  the Maori Party has been a big disapointment to me.When first formed there was an opportunity for the</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a life long Socialist I must say that  the Maori Party has been a big disapointment to me.When first formed there was an opportunity for the</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191282</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191282</guid>
		<description>I think the point is that those groups need to tailor it &lt;i&gt;for themselves&lt;/i&gt; rather than having well-meaning PÄkehÄ (or MÄori) do it for them. But there will be a lot in common between such programmes, so a degree of coordination and general guidance would be valuable.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point is that those groups need to tailor it <i>for themselves</i> rather than having well-meaning PÄkehÄ (or MÄori) do it for them. But there will be a lot in common between such programmes, so a degree of coordination and general guidance would be valuable.</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: prism</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191281</link>
		<dc:creator>prism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191281</guid>
		<description>If the thrust of the policy was voiced as an attack on poverty and poor life outcomes with which Maori were highly motivated to work, Whanau Ora could then be regarded as a major policy focus to be followed by further programs widening the catchment.   

Poverty is high amongst Maori but also other ethnic groups as well. If it was lessening poverty and increasing life opportunities that was the expressed mission, then there would be policy changes to tailor it to different groups Maori amongst them,  rather than presenting it as a &quot;Maori exclusive&quot; program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the thrust of the policy was voiced as an attack on poverty and poor life outcomes with which Maori were highly motivated to work, Whanau Ora could then be regarded as a major policy focus to be followed by further programs widening the catchment.   </p>
<p>Poverty is high amongst Maori but also other ethnic groups as well. If it was lessening poverty and increasing life opportunities that was the expressed mission, then there would be policy changes to tailor it to different groups Maori amongst them,  rather than presenting it as a &#8220;Maori exclusive&#8221; program.</p>
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		<title>By: Hine Te Po</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191280</link>
		<dc:creator>Hine Te Po</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191280</guid>
		<description>Teenaa koe, Lew!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teenaa koe, Lew!</p>
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		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191277</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191277</guid>
		<description>Hine,  tÄ“nÄ koe!

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hine,  tÄ“nÄ koe!</p>
<p>L</p>
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		<title>By: Hine Te Po</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191275</link>
		<dc:creator>Hine Te Po</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191275</guid>
		<description>Kia-ora,

The left is as bad as the right in the treatment it accords to things Maaori.  The aspirations of tangata whenua are labelled &quot;race-based&quot; and hard fought gains are described as &quot;preferential.&quot;  

What we are demanding and what we shall continue to fight for is recognition of our Treaty rights - as depicted in the Te Tiriti o Waitangi (not the English version).  But  then, even the English version and the principles derived therefrom have yet to be fully comprehended and thus implemented by successive governments of either persuasion. 

I sincerely wish the left would give up on the notion of viewing Maaori as simply another type of Pakeha - we are unique peoples fighting for the right to exist as separate peoples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kia-ora,</p>
<p>The left is as bad as the right in the treatment it accords to things Maaori.  The aspirations of tangata whenua are labelled &#8220;race-based&#8221; and hard fought gains are described as &#8220;preferential.&#8221;  </p>
<p>What we are demanding and what we shall continue to fight for is recognition of our Treaty rights &#8211; as depicted in the Te Tiriti o Waitangi (not the English version).  But  then, even the English version and the principles derived therefrom have yet to be fully comprehended and thus implemented by successive governments of either persuasion. </p>
<p>I sincerely wish the left would give up on the notion of viewing Maaori as simply another type of Pakeha &#8211; we are unique peoples fighting for the right to exist as separate peoples.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191272</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191272</guid>
		<description>Take it or leave it. I sense a shafting coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take it or leave it. I sense a shafting coming.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: George D</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191269</link>
		<dc:creator>George D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191269</guid>
		<description>And didn&#039;t that proposal go down a treat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And didn&#8217;t that proposal go down a treat.</p>
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		<title>By: marty mars</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191268</link>
		<dc:creator>marty mars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191268</guid>
		<description>It was sarcastic but indicative of my concerns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was sarcastic but indicative of my concerns.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiger Mountain</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-maori-party-headed-for-foreshore-seabed-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-191264</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiger Mountain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=30095#comment-191264</guid>
		<description>I took Martys comment to be sarcastic, and predictive of some</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took Martys comment to be sarcastic, and predictive of some</p>
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