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	<title>Comments on: No, Bill.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: The Standard 2.01: The Standard Week: 3-10 October</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93808</link>
		<dc:creator>The Standard 2.01: The Standard Week: 3-10 October</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93808</guid>
		<description>[...] No, Bill It&#039;s one thing to engage in &quot;win at any cost&#039; bombast but to mock the &quot;principled statements&#039; you are making to the public, the very voters you want to have faith in you?&#8230;[more] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] No, Bill It&#8217;s one thing to engage in &#8220;win at any cost&#8217; bombast but to mock the &#8220;principled statements&#8217; you are making to the public, the very voters you want to have faith in you?&#8230;[more] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93629</link>
		<dc:creator>Dom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93629</guid>
		<description>How is playing something that Bill English said, something that is pertinent to the election and not like or even muck-raking (ie. no one is accusing him of being a child molestor or of having had a mistress) how is this a &#039;dirty trick&#039;?  If Bill English is saying stuff he doesn&#039;t mean or doesn&#039;t believe in to strangers then he should stop - you can&#039;t expect a stranger you&#039;d never met before not to repeat what you say, they simply don&#039;t owe you that duty of care, it&#039;s not a confidential relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is playing something that Bill English said, something that is pertinent to the election and not like or even muck-raking (ie. no one is accusing him of being a child molestor or of having had a mistress) how is this a &#8216;dirty trick&#8217;?  If Bill English is saying stuff he doesn&#8217;t mean or doesn&#8217;t believe in to strangers then he should stop &#8211; you can&#8217;t expect a stranger you&#8217;d never met before not to repeat what you say, they simply don&#8217;t owe you that duty of care, it&#8217;s not a confidential relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93583</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93583</guid>
		<description>National started the strategy of trying to sling dirt at Labour years ago.  They&#039;ve steadily been attacking targeted Labour MPs with the line it&#039;s about principles.  So now the left is hitting back.  You indicate it yourself, Tony with this:

&quot; They only need to remind the public of the public record that demonstrates very clearly that this Labour-led government has been the most corrupt government in New Zealand&#039;s history.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>National started the strategy of trying to sling dirt at Labour years ago.  They&#8217;ve steadily been attacking targeted Labour MPs with the line it&#8217;s about principles.  So now the left is hitting back.  You indicate it yourself, Tony with this:</p>
<p>&#8221; They only need to remind the public of the public record that demonstrates very clearly that this Labour-led government has been the most corrupt government in New Zealand&#8217;s history.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Robinsod</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93582</link>
		<dc:creator>Robinsod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93582</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am sure that Ian Wishart has one or two tasty tid-bits to come.&lt;/i&gt;

Squeak...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am sure that Ian Wishart has one or two tasty tid-bits to come.</i></p>
<p>Squeak&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Norriss</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93581</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Norriss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93581</guid>
		<description>r0b said &quot;You wish. Last round of this &quot;trifling stuff&#039; saw the polls close a few points. This round probably will too.&quot;

r0b, you seem to be missing the point that if National decides to get down and dirty they have much more ammunition to use. They don&#039;t need to rely on sound bites from a National Party function. They only need to remind the public of the public record that demonstrates very clearly that this Labour-led government has been the most corrupt government in New Zealand&#039;s history. If they decide to do this, then Labour is toast.

All Labour can point to is isolated incidents and comments without any reference to accompanying behaviour. What National can point to is contrived, cynical behaviour and policies that pervade the whole government. 

Something I forgot to mention above, of course, was Labour stealing $800k of public funds for the pledge card campaign, and the Ingram Inquiry cover-up. All pretty shabby, really.

BTW, there is still time for two Investigate Magazines to come out before the elections. I am sure that Ian Wishart has one or two tasty tid-bits to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>r0b said &#8220;You wish. Last round of this &#8220;trifling stuff&#8217; saw the polls close a few points. This round probably will too.&#8221;</p>
<p>r0b, you seem to be missing the point that if National decides to get down and dirty they have much more ammunition to use. They don&#8217;t need to rely on sound bites from a National Party function. They only need to remind the public of the public record that demonstrates very clearly that this Labour-led government has been the most corrupt government in New Zealand&#8217;s history. If they decide to do this, then Labour is toast.</p>
<p>All Labour can point to is isolated incidents and comments without any reference to accompanying behaviour. What National can point to is contrived, cynical behaviour and policies that pervade the whole government. </p>
<p>Something I forgot to mention above, of course, was Labour stealing $800k of public funds for the pledge card campaign, and the Ingram Inquiry cover-up. All pretty shabby, really.</p>
<p>BTW, there is still time for two Investigate Magazines to come out before the elections. I am sure that Ian Wishart has one or two tasty tid-bits to come.</p>
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		<title>By: r0b</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93571</link>
		<dc:creator>r0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93571</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; This is all trifling stuff. &lt;/i&gt;

You wish.  Last round of this &quot;trifling stuff&quot; saw the polls close a few points.  This round probably will too.

People don&#039;t like being lied to Tony, they don&#039;t like being taken for fools.  That is what National is doing. Bill English is on record that their &quot;principles&quot; are just a mask for &quot;whatever it takes&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> This is all trifling stuff. </i></p>
<p>You wish.  Last round of this &#8220;trifling stuff&#8221; saw the polls close a few points.  This round probably will too.</p>
<p>People don&#8217;t like being lied to Tony, they don&#8217;t like being taken for fools.  That is what National is doing. Bill English is on record that their &#8220;principles&#8221; are just a mask for &#8220;whatever it takes&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Pierson</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93569</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pierson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93569</guid>
		<description>Janet, that&#039;s why if you want real political news you have to come to The Standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janet, that&#8217;s why if you want real political news you have to come to The Standard.</p>
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		<title>By: pohutukawa kid</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93559</link>
		<dc:creator>pohutukawa kid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93559</guid>
		<description>In vino veritas they say
Yet lying is so much the custom
The safest way with certain folk
Is drunk or sober not to trust &#039;em

Anon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In vino veritas they say<br />
Yet lying is so much the custom<br />
The safest way with certain folk<br />
Is drunk or sober not to trust &#8216;em</p>
<p>Anon</p>
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		<title>By: redbus</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93557</link>
		<dc:creator>redbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93557</guid>
		<description>I tol&#039; ya that he was trouble. You know that he&#039;s no good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tol&#8217; ya that he was trouble. You know that he&#8217;s no good.</p>
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		<title>By: the sprout</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93556</link>
		<dc:creator>the sprout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93556</guid>
		<description>No significant difference in tax policy
Junking Kiwisaver
More secret tapes with more to come
Worryingly convergent polls on the way...

I wonder if this was where National were hoping to be four weeks before the Election?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No significant difference in tax policy<br />
Junking Kiwisaver<br />
More secret tapes with more to come<br />
Worryingly convergent polls on the way&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder if this was where National were hoping to be four weeks before the Election?</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93555</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93555</guid>
		<description>Has that comment by John K against state houses in his patch made the media at all? I haven&#039;t seen it mentioned except for on the Standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has that comment by John K against state houses in his patch made the media at all? I haven&#8217;t seen it mentioned except for on the Standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Robinsod</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93553</link>
		<dc:creator>Robinsod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93553</guid>
		<description>&lt;i  i look forward to the explanations that will be offered when the racist tapes are released  

The racist tapes??? Was Bob Clarkson there...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;i  i look forward to the explanations that will be offered when the racist tapes are released  </p>
<p>The racist tapes??? Was Bob Clarkson there&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93552</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93552</guid>
		<description>... i look forward to the explanations that will be offered when the racist tapes are released ...

That&#039;s the good thing about right wingers and alcohol, boy do they show their revolting true colours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; i look forward to the explanations that will be offered when the racist tapes are released &#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the good thing about right wingers and alcohol, boy do they show their revolting true colours.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93551</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93551</guid>
		<description>If stating &quot;winning at all costs&quot; is no big deal, then National cannot complain about the secret taping, because the taping itself must also be merely a tactic to &quot;win at all costs&quot;.

National cannot have its cake and eat it too. Either the taping was below the belt and the comment was disgraceful, or; the comment was par for the political course and the taping was nice work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If stating &#8220;winning at all costs&#8221; is no big deal, then National cannot complain about the secret taping, because the taping itself must also be merely a tactic to &#8220;win at all costs&#8221;.</p>
<p>National cannot have its cake and eat it too. Either the taping was below the belt and the comment was disgraceful, or; the comment was par for the political course and the taping was nice work.</p>
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		<title>By: tony norriss</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/no-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-93550</link>
		<dc:creator>tony norriss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=3285#comment-93550</guid>
		<description>The point is this:

Any Government that has been in power for 9 years is going to have a lot of baggage that can be thrown back in its face and bought back to the attention of voters. Labour has heaps without having to think too far, as I have pointed out. 

It is a very dangerous strategy to throw the dirt around in these circumstances. It strikes me that Labour must be very desperate to be trying these sort of tactics for the reasons I have just stated. 

I could also have mentioned the ugly conglomoration of parties that voters will be considering when thinking about voting Labour. When each of these has torn its pound of flesh out of Labour, then there may be quite a few promises they can&#039;t deliver on, meaning that Labour cannot be trusted in many aspects due to the pragmatic necessities of negotiation. Not only that, voters will be horrified at the prospect of Winston posturing around and making himself the centre of attention when much more pressing issues need sorting.

On the other hand, National being so close to the 50% mark is unlikely to have these tensions and so is likely to be able to deliver much more of its promises, and thus is likely to be seen as more trustworthy by the voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is this:</p>
<p>Any Government that has been in power for 9 years is going to have a lot of baggage that can be thrown back in its face and bought back to the attention of voters. Labour has heaps without having to think too far, as I have pointed out. </p>
<p>It is a very dangerous strategy to throw the dirt around in these circumstances. It strikes me that Labour must be very desperate to be trying these sort of tactics for the reasons I have just stated. </p>
<p>I could also have mentioned the ugly conglomoration of parties that voters will be considering when thinking about voting Labour. When each of these has torn its pound of flesh out of Labour, then there may be quite a few promises they can&#8217;t deliver on, meaning that Labour cannot be trusted in many aspects due to the pragmatic necessities of negotiation. Not only that, voters will be horrified at the prospect of Winston posturing around and making himself the centre of attention when much more pressing issues need sorting.</p>
<p>On the other hand, National being so close to the 50% mark is unlikely to have these tensions and so is likely to be able to deliver much more of its promises, and thus is likely to be seen as more trustworthy by the voters.</p>
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