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	<title>Comments on: Nowhere to Hide</title>
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	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
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		<title>By: Greedy Pig</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-2/#comment-108821</link>
		<dc:creator>Greedy Pig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108821</guid>
		<description>&quot;On a deeper level, we see that Hide&#039;s empty puffery on regulation is just another example of the Right appealing to the reactionary moron in us all. The Right (and, too often, the media) encourages us to engage with politics in a dumb, fact-free, cliched way: â€˜all this red tape is strangling us&#039;, â€˜this PC Nanny State is wrecking my life&#039;, â€˜they waste all our tax on beaurucrats&#039;. They fight on these dishonest cliches because they don&#039;t have anything else.&quot;

This &quot;red tape&quot; is all about the battle to develop. Ask yourself who funds National Act (and Labour)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On a deeper level, we see that Hide&#8217;s empty puffery on regulation is just another example of the Right appealing to the reactionary moron in us all. The Right (and, too often, the media) encourages us to engage with politics in a dumb, fact-free, cliched way: â€˜all this red tape is strangling us&#8217;, â€˜this PC Nanny State is wrecking my life&#8217;, â€˜they waste all our tax on beaurucrats&#8217;. They fight on these dishonest cliches because they don&#8217;t have anything else.&#8221;</p>
<p>This &#8220;red tape&#8221; is all about the battle to develop. Ask yourself who funds National Act (and Labour)?</p>
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		<title>By: tracey</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-2/#comment-108734</link>
		<dc:creator>tracey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108734</guid>
		<description>Can rodders guarantee that the behaviours of the folks who led us to having all these &#039;Irksome&#039; pieces of law has changed? That is the economic bottom line is not the be all and end all in decision-making anymore... yeah right

polluted waterways, leaking buildings, to name a few.But that was the past, everyone is really honest and thoughtful now</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can rodders guarantee that the behaviours of the folks who led us to having all these &#8216;Irksome&#8217; pieces of law has changed? That is the economic bottom line is not the be all and end all in decision-making anymore&#8230; yeah right</p>
<p>polluted waterways, leaking buildings, to name a few.But that was the past, everyone is really honest and thoughtful now</p>
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		<title>By: MikeE</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108702</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108702</guid>
		<description>Toad, 

I think you will have found rodney has said prohibtion is a failiure many times, and ACT would hopefully vote inf avor of reform of cannabis laws providing the put responsibility onto the user and not the state.  Heck his book &quot;my year of living dangerously&quot; even comments on this.  

The problem is the Nats and UF would never support it. 

Remember, ACT voted against the silly party pill legislation, Nats and Labour voted for it.

see:

http://www.act.org.nz/blog/rodney-hide/prohibition

&quot;Posted on 21 Feb 2006

The Maori Party is at least consistent: they want to ban tobacco smoking because it&#039;s addictive and kills.

The PM and the anti-smoking lobby are against the ban: they say it won&#039;t work.

And the prohbition on P and cannabis does?&quot;

and on medical pot

&quot;Turei said that while it is &quot;unusual&#039; for a bill to sit for so long &quot;because most MPs will let their bills fail,&#039; she does not want the Bill to simply fail the first time it is read out. &quot;We relied on chance to get the Bill in, and it finally got picked  So the plan is just to keep it on the order paper so it doesn&#039;t die, because if I let it get voted down then I&#039;d have to do another members bill, and who knows when it would come up again.&#039; Only Act have pledged to vote with the Greens during the Bill&#039;s first reading. Turei says that many MPs believe medicinal marijuana is &quot;the â€˜thin end of the wedge&#039; for recreational use&#039; because they &quot;don&#039;t understand that it does have a proven scientific use.&#039; Act&#039;s Health Spokesperson Heather Roy says the Bill is &quot;absolutely the right thing to do&#039; but is not surprised other parties have simply not looked at the evidence in support of marijuana&#039;s medicinal benefits.&quot;

http://www.salient.org.nz/features/medicinal-marijuana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toad, </p>
<p>I think you will have found rodney has said prohibtion is a failiure many times, and ACT would hopefully vote inf avor of reform of cannabis laws providing the put responsibility onto the user and not the state.  Heck his book &#8220;my year of living dangerously&#8221; even comments on this.  </p>
<p>The problem is the Nats and UF would never support it. </p>
<p>Remember, ACT voted against the silly party pill legislation, Nats and Labour voted for it.</p>
<p>see:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.act.org.nz/blog/rodney-hide/prohibition" rel="nofollow">http://www.act.org.nz/blog/rodney-hide/prohibition</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Posted on 21 Feb 2006</p>
<p>The Maori Party is at least consistent: they want to ban tobacco smoking because it&#8217;s addictive and kills.</p>
<p>The PM and the anti-smoking lobby are against the ban: they say it won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>And the prohbition on P and cannabis does?&#8221;</p>
<p>and on medical pot</p>
<p>&#8220;Turei said that while it is &#8220;unusual&#8217; for a bill to sit for so long &#8220;because most MPs will let their bills fail,&#8217; she does not want the Bill to simply fail the first time it is read out. &#8220;We relied on chance to get the Bill in, and it finally got picked  So the plan is just to keep it on the order paper so it doesn&#8217;t die, because if I let it get voted down then I&#8217;d have to do another members bill, and who knows when it would come up again.&#8217; Only Act have pledged to vote with the Greens during the Bill&#8217;s first reading. Turei says that many MPs believe medicinal marijuana is &#8220;the â€˜thin end of the wedge&#8217; for recreational use&#8217; because they &#8220;don&#8217;t understand that it does have a proven scientific use.&#8217; Act&#8217;s Health Spokesperson Heather Roy says the Bill is &#8220;absolutely the right thing to do&#8217; but is not surprised other parties have simply not looked at the evidence in support of marijuana&#8217;s medicinal benefits.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salient.org.nz/features/medicinal-marijuana" rel="nofollow">http://www.salient.org.nz/features/medicinal-marijuana</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108688</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108688</guid>
		<description>Iprent - this is a classic example of people expecting the government to provide a solution when the private sector would provide a far more efficient one. Get rid of all the regulations and council inspections - this reduces the costs of homes and rates  significantly. Then pay private inspectors to check out the house (the incentives are in the right place for them to do a good job too, because if they don&#039;t they lose business unlike the council), if you want further protection - purchase &#039;leaky home insurence&#039; or something similar. I guarentee to you that the difference in house prices will be far more than the money you fork out for these two options. 

This concept seems to work pretty well in the used car market. We don&#039;t expect the council to inspect cars!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iprent &#8211; this is a classic example of people expecting the government to provide a solution when the private sector would provide a far more efficient one. Get rid of all the regulations and council inspections &#8211; this reduces the costs of homes and rates  significantly. Then pay private inspectors to check out the house (the incentives are in the right place for them to do a good job too, because if they don&#8217;t they lose business unlike the council), if you want further protection &#8211; purchase &#8216;leaky home insurence&#8217; or something similar. I guarentee to you that the difference in house prices will be far more than the money you fork out for these two options. </p>
<p>This concept seems to work pretty well in the used car market. We don&#8217;t expect the council to inspect cars!</p>
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		<title>By: Aj</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108622</link>
		<dc:creator>Aj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108622</guid>
		<description>Everytime Hide had a microphone in front of him while talking about red tape, I was waiting for a followup question, like, &#039;name 5 examples you are going to change&#039;

Never happened. Surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everytime Hide had a microphone in front of him while talking about red tape, I was waiting for a followup question, like, &#8216;name 5 examples you are going to change&#8217;</p>
<p>Never happened. Surprise.</p>
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		<title>By: TimeWarp</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108614</link>
		<dc:creator>TimeWarp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108614</guid>
		<description>Thanks Rex that would be it, and yes you may be right that the problem is the journo&#039;s.

Quoth makes a very good point.  So where exactly do you stop treating expenditure as &#039;waste&#039;?  I think if a country were to follow the Hide/Douglas philosophy to it&#039;s logical conclusion, all government expenditure would cease because it is wasteful, the market works better, etc etc.

Then of course all the ACT supporters have a problem because they have no roads to drive big european SUV&#039;s or sports cars on, and no services to get them to a hospital when they crash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rex that would be it, and yes you may be right that the problem is the journo&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Quoth makes a very good point.  So where exactly do you stop treating expenditure as &#8216;waste&#8217;?  I think if a country were to follow the Hide/Douglas philosophy to it&#8217;s logical conclusion, all government expenditure would cease because it is wasteful, the market works better, etc etc.</p>
<p>Then of course all the ACT supporters have a problem because they have no roads to drive big european SUV&#8217;s or sports cars on, and no services to get them to a hospital when they crash.</p>
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		<title>By: QoT</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108586</link>
		<dc:creator>QoT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108586</guid>
		<description>Cannabis law, fallacious separation of marriage and civil unions, the Abortion Supervisory Committee ... oh wait, I think Rodney means &quot;regulations that inhibit and stifle rich white heterosexual men who just cannot live without spending unnecessary money on inefficient lighting&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cannabis law, fallacious separation of marriage and civil unions, the Abortion Supervisory Committee &#8230; oh wait, I think Rodney means &#8220;regulations that inhibit and stifle rich white heterosexual men who just cannot live without spending unnecessary money on inefficient lighting&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108583</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108583</guid>
		<description>Insider: That is my point really - one way or another it gets paid for. What is a real problem is that there isn&#039;t enough insurance being carried at present to cover the potential problems. The general response has been for the councils to cover themselves by regulating (since the leaky homes saga started).

The problem at present is the person purchasing the property relies on the inspection by the councils and the workmanship of the builders. Most of the problems are hidden during building - eg pipes etc. To deregulate in this area will require that the potential liabilities are covered. That means that the producers (councils and builders) need to pay up front for covering that liability. Based on past performance and what has been going through the courts, that won&#039;t happen. At present the purchaser is the one who gets squeezed with the litigation costs etc.

I favour more regulation - give the council an ability and responsibility to license and check the builders. They are the authorizing agent for buildings in their area and are responsible for the safety of the buildings for 60 years or so after building. Put a absolute liability on the councils.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Insider: That is my point really &#8211; one way or another it gets paid for. What is a real problem is that there isn&#8217;t enough insurance being carried at present to cover the potential problems. The general response has been for the councils to cover themselves by regulating (since the leaky homes saga started).</p>
<p>The problem at present is the person purchasing the property relies on the inspection by the councils and the workmanship of the builders. Most of the problems are hidden during building &#8211; eg pipes etc. To deregulate in this area will require that the potential liabilities are covered. That means that the producers (councils and builders) need to pay up front for covering that liability. Based on past performance and what has been going through the courts, that won&#8217;t happen. At present the purchaser is the one who gets squeezed with the litigation costs etc.</p>
<p>I favour more regulation &#8211; give the council an ability and responsibility to license and check the builders. They are the authorizing agent for buildings in their area and are responsible for the safety of the buildings for 60 years or so after building. Put a absolute liability on the councils.</p>
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		<title>By: Quoth the Raven</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108580</link>
		<dc:creator>Quoth the Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108580</guid>
		<description>&quot;For example: should a ratepayer organisation be involved in any way in the financial arrangements for a visit by a US football team?&#039;

Why doesn&#039;t Wodney mention the wugby world cup?

Wascally wabbit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For example: should a ratepayer organisation be involved in any way in the financial arrangements for a visit by a US football team?&#8217;</p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t Wodney mention the wugby world cup?</p>
<p>Wascally wabbit.</p>
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		<title>By: A challenge for Rodders &#171; g.blog</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108575</link>
		<dc:creator>A challenge for Rodders &#171; g.blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108575</guid>
		<description>[...] I also have the support of Steve Pierson at The Standard on this - it could be a cross-party campaign to finally get rid of this stupid law. Rodders just [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I also have the support of Steve Pierson at The Standard on this &#8211; it could be a cross-party campaign to finally get rid of this stupid law. Rodders just [...]</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108572</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108572</guid>
		<description>Scribe said: &lt;i&gt;They should change the bestiality laws as well. After all: &quot;it makes criminals out of people who have done no harm to anyone.&#039; And as far as cannabis not hurting anyone, ask these people&lt;/i&gt;

Scribe, your link was to an instance of driving while under the influence of cannabis. I don&#039;t support anyone driving under the influence of any drug that impairs their ability to drive.  Your logic would suggest we should ban alcohol because people drive under its influence too.  It is not the drug that is the issue, it is what people may do when under the influence of it that should be the subject of the criminal law.

As for the bestiality bit, I am an animal lover - and not in the perverted sense that you imply.  I might have been a bit lax with my wording &quot;no harm to anyone&quot; - should have been &quot;no harm to anyone or anything&quot;.  The sexual violation of an animal is very obviously harmful [to the animal], as is the desecration of ecosystems to all species.

These things should all be subject to the criminal law.  Smoking dak, as long as you behave in a manner that does not potentially harm anyone or anything while under the influence, should not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scribe said: <i>They should change the bestiality laws as well. After all: &#8220;it makes criminals out of people who have done no harm to anyone.&#8217; And as far as cannabis not hurting anyone, ask these people</i></p>
<p>Scribe, your link was to an instance of driving while under the influence of cannabis. I don&#8217;t support anyone driving under the influence of any drug that impairs their ability to drive.  Your logic would suggest we should ban alcohol because people drive under its influence too.  It is not the drug that is the issue, it is what people may do when under the influence of it that should be the subject of the criminal law.</p>
<p>As for the bestiality bit, I am an animal lover &#8211; and not in the perverted sense that you imply.  I might have been a bit lax with my wording &#8220;no harm to anyone&#8221; &#8211; should have been &#8220;no harm to anyone or anything&#8221;.  The sexual violation of an animal is very obviously harmful [to the animal], as is the desecration of ecosystems to all species.</p>
<p>These things should all be subject to the criminal law.  Smoking dak, as long as you behave in a manner that does not potentially harm anyone or anything while under the influence, should not.</p>
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		<title>By: insider</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108570</link>
		<dc:creator>insider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108570</guid>
		<description>ian

I have a friend in Ngaio, Wellington, screened from any sight of the sea by a large set of hills. They are having to use ss for their deck bolts, because we obviously have decks collapsing all over Wellington through rusty bolts. Insane. We are overcompensating for the minutest of risks. 

I&#039;ve been told to build a second storey on my place I would have to build a massive steel subframe - extra piling would not be acceptable, even if the walls could cope.


Lynn

That&#039;s the kind of thing I was thinking of, but you are probably right about opposition to it. Ultimately the consumer will pay no matter what was decided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ian</p>
<p>I have a friend in Ngaio, Wellington, screened from any sight of the sea by a large set of hills. They are having to use ss for their deck bolts, because we obviously have decks collapsing all over Wellington through rusty bolts. Insane. We are overcompensating for the minutest of risks. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been told to build a second storey on my place I would have to build a massive steel subframe &#8211; extra piling would not be acceptable, even if the walls could cope.</p>
<p>Lynn</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the kind of thing I was thinking of, but you are probably right about opposition to it. Ultimately the consumer will pay no matter what was decided.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108569</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108569</guid>
		<description>Timewarp says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The highlight was this:

?For example: should a ratepayer organisation be involved in any way in the financial arrangements for a visit by a US football team??

Standing alone in the article...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Caused me to do a double take too. It just sort of sits there, anchored to nothing that comes before or after. It &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; however be the result of some very shoddy subbing at the Herald... having had many a well-crafted argument murdered in the name of filling the exact space between one ad and another.

Of course we could tell if, having gone to the bother of writing it, they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/rodney+hide&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bothered adding it to the Ministerial website&lt;/a&gt; [NSFWL*] but clearly the government&#039;s advisors haven&#039;t caught up with such basic functions as yet. *rolls eyes*

*Not Safe For Weak Lefties, as it has a picture of Rodney on the page :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timewarp says:</p>
<blockquote><p>The highlight was this:</p>
<p>?For example: should a ratepayer organisation be involved in any way in the financial arrangements for a visit by a US football team??</p>
<p>Standing alone in the article&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Caused me to do a double take too. It just sort of sits there, anchored to nothing that comes before or after. It <i>might</i> however be the result of some very shoddy subbing at the Herald&#8230; having had many a well-crafted argument murdered in the name of filling the exact space between one ad and another.</p>
<p>Of course we could tell if, having gone to the bother of writing it, they <a href="http://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/rodney+hide" rel="nofollow">bothered adding it to the Ministerial website</a> [NSFWL*] but clearly the government&#8217;s advisors haven&#8217;t caught up with such basic functions as yet. *rolls eyes*</p>
<p>*Not Safe For Weak Lefties, as it has a picture of Rodney on the page <img src='http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: lprent</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108563</link>
		<dc:creator>lprent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108563</guid>
		<description>Insider: I wouldn&#039;t mind deregulating if the people doing the task were then required to pay the full liability insurance (including the councils) into escrow accounts for the expected life of the building. 

However as this would be a lot more than they currently pay the councils, I suspect that neither the the builders or the councils would be in favour of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Insider: I wouldn&#8217;t mind deregulating if the people doing the task were then required to pay the full liability insurance (including the councils) into escrow accounts for the expected life of the building. </p>
<p>However as this would be a lot more than they currently pay the councils, I suspect that neither the the builders or the councils would be in favour of it.</p>
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		<title>By: ianmac</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/nowhere-to-hide/comment-page-1/#comment-108562</link>
		<dc:creator>ianmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=6037#comment-108562</guid>
		<description>Timewarp: I took it to be a reference to the Soccer game with Beckham sponsored/supported by the Wellington Council about a year ago on the grounds that it would benefit Wellington Commerce. Isn&#039;t Auckland doing the same thing for next Sunday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timewarp: I took it to be a reference to the Soccer game with Beckham sponsored/supported by the Wellington Council about a year ago on the grounds that it would benefit Wellington Commerce. Isn&#8217;t Auckland doing the same thing for next Sunday?</p>
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