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NRT: For a drone-free New Zealand

Written By: - Date published: 11:31 am, May 27th, 2014 - 171 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags: , ,

It is difficult to describe just how abhorrent that I find the concept of the US military murdering the many bystanders and even targets with drone strikes and then trying to justify their illegal actions (under both US and international law) by labelling all of those killed, injured, and maimed as enemy. It reeks of the counting the body bags of civilians mentality that has been losing them wars during my lifetime.

I suspect that many other people with military backgrounds like myself would feel the same thing. In the aftermath of the Vietnam war, the consequences of such indiscriminate targeting of civilians around targets was quite apparent. It was highly counter-productive and more likely to create civilian support for insurgents than to terrorise them.

It sounds like time for New Zealand to deal with this rogue state mentality that the United States has fallen into. To do it before the stupidity spreads to states with even less compunction that the US. And to do it the way we do best – internationally.  No Right Turn on an idea from KiwiPolitico..

Over on KiwiPolitico, Pablo suggests a good idea: that New Zealand take a leadership role in the fight against US drone-murders by unilaterally renouncing the use of lethal drones:

At the end of my remarks I proposed that we debate the idea that New Zealand unilaterally renounce the use of lethal drones in any circumstance, foreign and domestic. I noted that the NZDF and other security agencies would oppose such a move, as would our security allies. I posited that if implemented, such a stance would be akin to the non-nuclear declaration of 1985 and would reaffirm New Zealand’s independent and autonomous foreign policy.

Alternatively, New Zealand could propose to make the South Pacific a lethal drone-free zone, similar to the regional nuclear free zone declared by the 1985 Treaty of Rarotonga. I noted again that countries like Australia and Chile would oppose the move (both have drone fleets and do not discount using them in anger), but that many of the Pacific Island states would likely welcome the idea.

(Note: lethal drones. Unarmed drones are a different matter, and have countless civilian applications)

He also suggests extending the ban to intelligence cooperation, and letting the New Zealand public decide the matter through a referendum.

I support this idea. Armed drones are used to murder people without trial. In Pakistan and Yemen, they are basically being used to indiscriminately wage war on civilians. We should have no part of either. New Zealand should renounce these weapons, ban our intelligence services from passing information to countries which use them, and organise the world against them. Obviously, that’s not going to happen under our current extrajudicial-murder-supporting government. But surely one of our opposition parties could make it policy?

171 comments on “NRT: For a drone-free New Zealand”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Lprent, do you oppose their use altogether? No military purpose at all?

    • RJL 1.1

      For lethal drones? Of course, there is a military purpose for lethal drones. The point is to renounce that lethal use (for military purposes, or police purposes, or any other purposes).

      Non-lethal use of drones by the military (or others) — i.e. surveillance — is fine; assuming legal legitimate surveillance targets, of course.

      The tricky bit might come down to adjudicating cases like when a surveillance drone is used to provide live targeting information to something like an independently launched cruise missile. Is that a lethal drone? Common sense would probably say it was a lethal drone. Legal technicality might argue otherwise. On the other hand, assassinating people via cruise missiles is just as much of a war crime as using a drone — so maybe a moot point.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

        The problem becomes defining the “battlefield” if one side hasn’t got never has any boots on the ground.

        • RJL 1.1.1.1

          If you are renoucing the use of lethal drones the definition of battlefield doesn’t matter.

          Battlefield or supermarket you are still renoucing the use.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1.1

            The thing is, I’m not renouncing their use for “military purpose”, and neither are you.

            But the “war” isn’t a conventional one with discreet territory and battlefields and lines of engagement. The US isn’t going to put boots on the ground when they control the skies, and the battlefield is wherever the enemy is.

            The problem is that it’s the wrong question. Dignifying these nitwits with a military response was always a bad idea.

            Q: Should the police be able to deploy lethal drones when pursuing terrorism suspects?

            A: No.

            • RJL 1.1.1.1.1.1

              The thing is, I’m not renouncing their use for “military purpose”, and neither are you.

              The proposal is to renouce lethal drones; i.e. drones directly armed with weapons.

              There would then perhaps be a grey area around using non-lethal drones to guide “independent” weapons. But that is a side-issue.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Um, I hope that our soldiers are trained or at least resourceful enough to add lethal capacity to their non-lethal drones if any battlefield situation dictates it. Oh, and since that means they can engage their targets remotely I also expect them to offer every opportunity to surrender before deploying lethal force, but I’m pretty sure they know that already.

      • Ad 1.1.2

        So what then would the moral difference be between a Cruise missile and a lethal drone?

        • RJL 1.1.2.1

          Little moral difference in the device.

          Tends to be moral difference in what they are used for. But that probably just comes down to the practical difference that a drone can loiter for a long time.

          • Ad 1.1.2.1.1

            Hovering is hardly enough to justify a global ban.
            After all on that basis you would ban all helicopters with guns or missiles on them.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Hi Ad,

              These things don’t just “hover.” They are able to intercept signals, surveilling and recording the environment beneath them in a multitude of ways and spectrums. Say good bye to privacy.

              Also imagine the psychological effect of a near permanent armed presence 500 metres above you, with munitions capable of levelling your entire house within seconds, or if you just happen to be travelling by the wrong place at the wrong time. That my friend is psychological warfare and terrorism, defined.

              There is one last difference between a cruise missile and a drone. Cruise missiles target GPS co-ordinates. Drones target people, and give operators to pick and choose who they kill throughout an entire 30+ duration on station.

              One is therefore designed as a military weapon. The other is an assassin’s tool.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Dispersal is one of the inevitable (military) responses to full spectrum dominance. A laser guided bomb is just as much an assassin’s tool as a drone. Both are military hardware.

                Deploying military resources against a civilian population in peacetime is a war crime. It doesn’t matter what the hardware does or how many bells and whistles it has. If it was bows and arrows it would still be wrong.

        • lprent 1.1.2.2

          There isn’t one when there is no war. It is exactly the same act as flying a plane into a building. It is an act of stupid terrorism.

          • Ad 1.1.2.2.1

            So your complaint is about declaring war, not drones.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.2.1.1

              Why the hell would you want unaccountable armed F-16′s cruising the skies above your work place or your home, capable of monitoring all your movements and intercepting your communications, knowing that overseas that same weapon system has been used to kill hundreds or thousands of civilians including children?

              And why the hell would you want these fighter jet weapon systems deployed over your own civilian population in peace time, and just think about why the power elite might want that too.

              Then think hey – what if these F-16s were piloted by foreigners from anywhere else in the world and you would not even know. In 2-3 years time, the sensor packages on these things will be so advanced that they can pick up an individual out of a crowd, and using automated facial recognition systems, match them against a wanted list, and launch a lethal strike on the target – with no human intervention at all. Just happens.

              Why would you back that?

    • lprent 1.2

      Lprent, do you oppose their use altogether? No military purpose at all?

      Hell no. But they are like every other weapon of war, they need to be subject to rules on their usage and to follow the conventions and agreements on the waging of war.

      Imagine the artillery equivalent. In a declared state of war at a range of 100′s or kilometres, I am going to drop some shells on a building because I have some reasonably vague intelligence that they are storing arms there (I am actually thinking of certain cases in military history here). Turns out it is full of refugees. Courts-martial will follow and did.

      What the US is doing is exactly the same, except it isn’t in a declared state of war.

      They aren’t something that you should be using against civilians and deliberately causing civilian collateral damage even in a war without strong rules about their usage.

      To do it without a declaration of war and arbitrarily ignoring the deaths of “collateral” damage is a act of simple murder, deserving of dragging those doing it and ordering it to the world court in the Hague.

      From a point of pure practicality, it is a completely idiotic activity because all they do is to increase the number of enemies you have – ask the Israelis what deliberately killing kids does to the hostility levels of the families they came from.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        To do it without a declaration of war and arbitrarily ignoring the deaths of “collateral” damage is a act of simple murder

        To fire a pistol into a crowd is murder.

        Firing a Hellfire II missile into a civilian apartment building or village centre is a massacre, and a crime against humanity.

        And it hardly matters what your justification is for hunting down bad bad human beings who may indeed be dangerous rabid animals…when you have become one yourself on the way.

  2. shorts 2

    Totally support the idea too… could it be our no nukes independent action of this century?

  3. Sounds like a no-brainer. It’s not like we were going to be operating lethal drones against anybody anyway.

    Of course, within a short time these things are going to be normal battlefield equipment, and the idea of committing your armed forces to regular combat without lethal drone support will be as insane as committing combat forces without artillery or air support – we’d want to be able to yank that commitment immediately if we found ourselves having to fight a war.

    • Macro 3.1

      ” It’s not like we were going to be operating lethal drones against anybody anyway.”

      In effect we are when we supply information, via the GCSB, to the US. Without that “information”, the drone strike does not happen. By being a member of the “5 eyes” we effectively align our foreign policy with the major power the US. This will not go well for us. The “Ugly American” and all that implies now includes all NZers traveling abroad. This stupid act of sucking up to the US by the Key Govt has just made all NZers less safe.

    • lprent 3.2

      Of course, within a short time these things are going to be normal battlefield equipment, and the idea of committing your armed forces to regular combat without lethal drone support will be as insane as committing combat forces without artillery or air support – we’d want to be able to yank that commitment immediately if we found ourselves having to fight a war.

      Of course and that is simply part of a war and what soldiers expect. It is no different to artillery. However these strikes are against a civilian population without a declaration of war.

      Even so (for instance) would you consider that in the time of war, it’d be a violation of the international rules of war to destroy civilian building well behind the lines with a missile from a drone because a soldier (say a general) was billeted there with a family? Because that is what is what the US is claiming as happening now.

      • Ad 3.2.1

        Surely there is nothing specific to drones about calling for thier non-use outside of a declaration of war?

        Why would that not apply already to every other military weapon – making a specific lethal drone ban pointless?

        Or is your point to seek to outlaw lethal drones entirely from all human activity – like nerve gas or germ warfare?

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

          Use of chemical and biological agents as weapons is already banned.

          • Ad 3.2.1.1.1

            Precisely. So what criteria were used to ban them that are applicable to proposing to ban drone strike aircraft? If none, what criteria are being deployed here?

            • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1.1

              The criteria was simple – it was the indiscriminate way that they kill. Chemical warfare will kill or maim everyone within the area and germ warfare could easily go global.

              A number of people who support drone attacks for taking out militants argue that drones are precision machines and thus aren’t covered by the rules of warfare. The fact that the number of civilian deaths far exceeds the number of militant kills doesn’t seem to get through to them.

              • Ad

                Got through to me.
                Name me a weapon bigger than a rifle that doesn’t have large civilian deaths.
                There is no principle operating here to ban lethal drones. See comment 13.

                • Colonial Viper

                  The simple principle that we don’t need them, or want them Ad.

                  What are you going to do next? Justify the use of landmines and the booby trapping of enemy weapons caches?

      • Psycho Milt 3.2.2

        Even so (for instance) would you consider that in the time of war, it’d be a violation of the international rules of war to destroy civilian building well behind the lines with a missile from a drone because a soldier (say a general) was billeted there with a family?

        Personally, I’d like it to be. The idea of W sitting in the dock at the Hague trying to explain why it was OK to destroy an apartment block full of people because he had some intelligence that someone important was there… that idea definitely appeals. But in reality, WW2 put it very clearly within the rules, because the victors were guilty of exactly that kind of thing and weren’t about to hang themselves. Same applies here.

        • lprent 3.2.2.1

          W?

          The purported excuse that the allies (and for that matter the germans) gave for their atrocities was that they were trying to hit military targets with imperfect weapons and accidentally destroying the city through inaccuracy (eg especially the german and english night bombing) and/or they were involved in close quarters urban fighting.

          That was why I used the example of single artillery round at long range which even in WW2 or Korea didn’t have either of those issues.

          • Psycho Milt 3.2.2.1.1

            Sorry – ‘W’ was one of many colloquial names for George W. Bush, presumably intended to distinguish him from his dad.

            Re the WW2 comparison, I think air and naval actions cover it. For example, the British sent a bunch of RAF Mosquitos to attack the Gestapo headquarters in Copenhagen to try and kill various Gestapo officers, and a few of the pilots mistook a school for the Gestapo building and killed some Danish schoolchildren.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2.1.2

            That was why I used the example of single artillery round at long range which even in WW2 or Korea didn’t have either of those issues.

            Artillery

            The Wiki disagrees with you.

            • lprent 3.2.2.1.2.1

              You’re right. Interesting. I’d thought that the reasonably accurate artillery was from a lot earlier.

              I’ll try to remember to look at the generational accuracy in the morning. I had the impression that ww2/korean war arty was small 10′s of metres accuracy, and that the warhead was dangerous for 10′s of metres. Which was sufficient for most targets.

              From memory the laser guided stuff like the copperhead required a laser painted at the target by an observer and that was accurate within metres.

              • Colonial Viper

                I’ll try to remember to look at the generational accuracy in the morning. I had the impression that ww2/korean war arty was small 10′s of metres accuracy, and that the warhead was dangerous for 10′s of metres. Which was sufficient for most targets.

                They had that level of accuracy once accurately ranged and sighted.

                Also, artillery (as you no doubt know) is used in several different ways and many different and complex firing plans, patterns and barrage types can be ordered and accurately delivered even using only standard shells.

              • Draco T Bastard

                I’d thought that the reasonably accurate artillery was from a lot earlier.

                They seem to have got unguided artillery accurate to “some tens of yards” by 1918 using air-photography and other methods. The problem really being wind shifts during the flight of the shell and there’s not much you can do about that. Even with modern computers that shell isn’t going to be overly accurate. Certainly not something that I’d fire in the general direction of a civilian population. Probably good for bases, camps and factories that are away from the population centre but anything close will result in civilian deaths.

                From memory the laser guided stuff like the copperhead required a laser painted at the target by an observer and that was accurate within metres.

                Yep. Lot easier to hit the target when you can see it and the shell can be guided on to it.

    • RJL 3.3

      Psycho Milt: “– we’d want to be able to yank that commitment immediately if we found ourselves having to fight a war.”

      The same argument applies to any other banned weaponry (nukes, cluster munitions, depleted uranium munitions, chemical and biological weapons). It hasn’t proven a problem in those cases.

      • Psycho Milt 3.3.1

        Soldiers do sometimes find themselves having to fight without air support – the Germans fighting the western Allies in 1944/5 for instance. However, it amounts to condemning them to wholesale slaughter and certain defeat, which is not something I’d encourage the NZ government to plan for its soldiers…

        • Colonial Viper 3.3.1.1

          Although in recent wars, it’s allied air support which has been most dangerous to western soldiers, not enemy air support…

          • One Anonymous Bloke 3.3.1.1.1

            That’s because the enemy hasn’t had any air support at all.

            • Colonial Viper 3.3.1.1.1.1

              Just watched video of Ukranian airforce gunships attacking a Ukranian army checkpoint.

              A very nasty whoops.

  4. Ok, It’s very simple. If you think that hunting animals with drones is abhorrent and prohibit them then you should declare them abhorrent when they are used on unsuspecting villagers in mountainous areas ore anywhere else for that matter.

    Every European country has rejected the use of Drones and the fact that the prime minister of New Zealand finds them acceptable and finds nothing wrong with the extrajudicial killing of one of its citizens simply because he accused of perhaps having to do something with terrorism is something that should worry every Kiwi.

    • Will@Welly 4.1

      100%

      You summed up my thoughts and feelings succinctly, John Key has no moral fibre. He might be Prime Minister, but he is not a leader, nor a statesman.

    • Ad 4.2

      “In the proposed regulation, remote-controlled aircraft are listed with unlawful hunting methods including the use of poison, bombs, radio communication or exploding salt licks, among other things”

      Crikey, we poinson the heck out of whole bunches of pests – admittedly I haven’t heard of DoC using exploding salt licks however (!)

      Can’t see the moral or ethical point that Alaska is making. If they are opposed to the mechanised killing of animals as a whole, they open a can of worms worth a Peter Singer-scale debate. In reality they’re just keeping things sweet for the rifle hunting fraternity.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

        In war, fighting (and hunting) there used to be a concept of what was honourable or what was sportsman-like. Often it was very arbitrary.

        You don’t attack someone from the back.

        You don’t kick someone when they are down.

        In medieval times the outcomes of battles would sometimes be declared by ‘referees’ on the field without requiring the wholesale slaughter of all on the other side, and reagents would abide by the decisions.

        These days, any government can with intellectual sophistry and PR justify all kinds of immoral and amoral activities and technology.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.1

          :roll:

          Gosh, yes, jolly unsporting, what what.

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.1

            Take it as a joke if you like. A global hyper-power can do whatever the fuck it likes. A nation like NZ on the other hand has to make its way using its independence, its soft power and by setting a moral example.

            Too quaint an attitude for you no doubt.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Your notions of Medieval chivalry are romantic drivel. Just saying.

  5. hoom 5

    An International treaty regulating/limiting use of lethal drones is a really bloody good idea.

  6. Pablo 6

    As the person who first put the idea out in the public domain (at a meeting last week in Wellington and then on KP), let me clarify that my proposal was for there to be public debate about NZ’s possible unilateral renunciation of lethal drones or the construction of a regional lethal-drone free zone in the South Pacific. I noted some pros and cons by way of introducing argumentative points that would emerge in such a debate and speculated that the it would be good to have in the lead up to a referendum on the subject. NRT was kind enough to support the proposal and is clearly for unilateral renunciation, as are Lynn and many others.

    There are practical arguments in favor of retaining the right to deploy lethal UAVs in and over the battlefield (since the trend in UAVs is towards nano technologies). If that were to occur the conditions governing their deployment would require many strictures regarding the rules of engagement, choice of targets, nature of the conflict etc., which would be the subject of further discussion. The immediate point is that these issues need to be aired more broadly and not left to government interpretation.

    I believe that it is time for open and reasoned discussion of where we as a polity stand on the subject of lethal drones. Given their myriad non-lethal applications, the issue is not whether there will be drones in our future, but when and what kind will be allowed to operate at home and abroad, and under what conditions. A referendum on the subject would clarify the issue and could help policy approaches towards it.

    • RJL 6.1

      Pablo: “…since the trend in UAVs is towards nano technologies…

      Is the trend towards nano manifest in lethal drones too?

      At some point, with a lethal drone, some munitions need to arrive at the target. Munitions tend to be macro.

      Or do you just mean a whole swarm of tiny “sensor nano-drones” that network to a large lethal drone. The lethal drone can loiter some distance away and then launch munitions according to targeting information provided by the swarm?

      Can’t see a good reason to not renouce that potential tech.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1

        How about that a tiny robot can deliver a single lethal dose with no other loss of life?

        • RJL 6.1.1.1

          Would still be an extra-judicial assassination; so still a war crime.

          Also, while that may reduce collatoral damage, it can’t eliminate it: tiny robot may dose the wrong person.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1.1

            You have to think harder: that drone on your neck toe is one of a hundred within striking distance of you right now. Surrender or die.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.1

              No doubt you also approve of the use of assassin drone technology, as long as the target is a suitable non-civilian one.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                No doubt you’re such a fuckwit that you will continue to misrepresent my views on this subject, you unelectable failure.

                • Colonial Viper

                  An “unelectable failure”? Like I said before, at least I’m not a Drone Democrat making excuses for the latest automated weapons platforms that money can buy.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    What part of the fact that control of the air disperses the enemy can’t you grasp? What part of the consequences of that dispersal are you having trouble with?

                    Fuck you’re a moron.

    • Ad 6.2

      Would you mind providing a link to your arguments so I can get my head around them?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.3

      Pablo a referendum are you serious?

      Shall we allow soldiers the right to kill engage the enemy by remote control?

      Or

      Shall we cede the right to life to the US administration?

      What yes/no question did you have in mind?

      • Pablo 6.3.1

        Actually, since referenda are non-binding and have been ignored by arrogant governments (e.g. asset sales), a Royal Commission would be a preferable alternative. Draw up a panel of experts, hold public hearings, then write up recommendations. They might be harder to ignore.

    • lprent 6.4

      If that were to occur the conditions governing their deployment would require many strictures regarding the rules of engagement, choice of targets, nature of the conflict etc., which would be the subject of further discussion. The immediate point is that these issues need to be aired more broadly and not left to government interpretation.

      Exactly. Especially as the way that the US appears to be currently deploying drones closely resembles simple acts of terrorism

      • One Anonymous Bloke 6.4.1

        The main reason to deploy drones is to limit casualties. What costs more, a drone or a platoon?

        The deployment of drones effectively scatters the enemy, forcing them to hide among the civilian population.

        At that point it makes far more sense to return jurisdiction to the civilian authorities than to bomb weddings.

        • Colonial Viper 6.4.1.1

          The main reason to deploy drones is to limit OUR casualties. The coloured bad guy ragheads who speak a different language can go get fucked.

          Clarified it for you.

          What costs more, a drone or a platoon?

          I love the moral measure you bring to bear here. What’s the cheaper way of killing other people.

          God I hate lefties some days. Drone Strike Democrats the lot of ya.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 6.4.1.1.1

            Yes, because costs are only ever measured in money, you blinkered twit.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1.2

            Generally speaking there shouldn’t be way at all. Unfortunately, there’s a few psychopaths in power in a few places around the world some of those places happen to be powerful nation states.

  7. Chaff 7

    What makes a drone and how does it differ from any other weapon? Fine, you don’t like the idea that the US targeted and killed someone who they perceived to be a terrorist with whom they are at war with. Perhaps that is a matter of perspective. This idea that a drone is somehow indiscriminate, automated etc, implied very much by the silly term ‘drone’ in the first place, is wrong.

    Someone is flying that aircraft, making the same decisions anyone else is. The idea that warfare is somehow ‘fair’ and unmanned weapons are wrong is about 150 years out of date, and irrelevant.

    Now if you want to argue collateral, sure, but the use of a ‘drone’ is irrelevant to the subject of collateral.

    • Ad 7.1

      Retired US Air Force General Charles Dunlap:
      “It’s not particularly new to use long-range strike. David defeated Goliath with a long-range strike with a missile weapon. At Agincourt, the English bowmen destroyed the flower of French knighthood with long-range strikes… and we have had long-range strike bombers for some time. This really is not new conceptually.”

      Debating Drones, In the Open, New York Times, Feb 10, 2014

      Possibly drawing too long a bow there (sorry)

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

        Big difference between one guy being armed with a long sword and the other being armed with a dagger; to one guy being armed with an AK47 and the other guy shooting at him from 5,000km away in a secure base in Texas.

    • Macro 7.2

      “Fine, you don’t like the idea that the US targeted and killed someone who they perceived to be a terrorist with whom they are at war with. Perhaps that is a matter of perspective.”

      Every NZer is entitled to a fair trial. NZ has abolished capital punishment – even for crimes against the state. Supplying information that leads to a drone strike on his cell phone, is tantamount to being an accessory in his murder. Being “relaxed” about it compounds the crime. There is no state of war declared by NZ against Pakistan. The so called “war against terrorism” is not a state of war against innocent people, and it draws a long bow to think that that includes legitimacy to perform acts of assassination against anyone. And the last time I read the principles of justice every NZer is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

    • lprent 7.3

      What makes a drone and how does it differ from any other weapon?

      No different. In most militaries in peacetime having a soldier lob a shell into a civilian town would constitute a civil crime. Doing the same as a drone operator firing a missile into a building or street deserves the same treatment regardless if it is in Yemen or Pakistan or NZ or Mexico.

      • Ad 7.3.1

        Then, again, your problem is with the US not declaring war, not drone deployment.

        • Macro 7.3.1.1

          Oh finally you got it! This has been the argument all along – but some have taken all day to work out the moral basis. There is a huge difference between declaring war on a country and sending ad hoc drones into Pakistan to kill persons who may or may not be members of an organisation you happen to disagree with.

          Tit for tat gets us no where, indeed it merely escalates into all out conflict. Just because suicidal maniacs hi jacked some plane and flew them into the Twin towers and the Pentagon killing several thousand innocents in the process doesn’t automatically make it right for the US and NZ to continually fly drones into Pakistan killing thousands more. Repeating a wrong doing does not make it right. All these drone attacks do is to harden the anger against USA and its allies, and create more desire to “get back”. Rather than reduce the threat to US civilians it has increased it. They feel more threatened now than before. It is a stupid policy which the States and those countries associated with them (including NZ) will ultimately loose, as the so- called war in Afganistan is proving.

  8. Populuxe1 8

    ….Or we could completely and cost effectively replace our long lost air force by defending our coastal and ocean territories with drones. Babies and bathwater.

    • lprent 8.1

      With effectively no international rules on their use and violating international laws? What are you going to do.

      What are you planning to do? Fire a hellfire missile into a korean fishing boat full of filipino semi-slaves because you think that there might be a al-qaeda operative on board?

      That is roughly what the US does. Then they claim guilt by association and call the other victims enemies.

      I’m afraid that you’d have a hell of a hard time getting our military happy with it. Besides have you looked at the costs of something that could stand our offshore weather?

      • Populuxe1 8.1.1

        With effectively no international rules on their use and violating international laws? What are you going to do.

        How does one violate laws that don’t exist then?

        What are you planning to do? Fire a hellfire missile into a korean fishing boat full of filipino semi-slaves because you think that there might be a al-qaeda operative on board?

        Do we do much of that now, then? More to the point as the world turns to shit, in 20-50 years the Pacific will likely be a whole lot less pacific.

        That is roughly what the US does. Then they claim guilt by association and call the other victims enemies.

        I didn’t say anything about deploying them overseas. I said quite clearly “defending our coastal and ocean territories”.

        I’m afraid that you’d have a hell of a hard time getting our military happy with it. Besides have you looked at the costs of something that could stand our offshore weather?

        Well until someone asks them, we won’t know, although it’s actually up to the government rather than the military. The US Navy already has ship-launched drones that would work just fine in our offshore weather.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      We didn’t lose the air force – it’s still there. We just got rid of the rather useless air-combat wing.

      The monitoring of our waters has always been sub-par and will probably remain so until we develop our own space program. There’s no way that I would trust a satellite built by another country for our defense. Actually, I apply that to all of our defense forces weapons.

      • TheContrarian 8.2.1

        “The monitoring of our waters has always been sub-par and will probably remain so until we develop our own space program”

        This is what I love about Draco, the blanket “All we need to do is <insert lofty goal that must only be achieved using the resources we have at hand because Draco also believes we don’t need to import anything either.>”

        Never change, you’re a peach.

  9. Chooky 9

    +100 …Great Post …Totally agree “Armed drones are used to murder people without trial. In Pakistan and Yemen, they are basically being used to indiscriminately wage war on civilians. We should have no part of either. New Zealand should renounce these weapons, ban our intelligence services from passing information to countries which use them, and organise the world against them. Obviously, that’s not going to happen under our current extrajudicial-murder-supporting government. But surely one of our opposition parties could make it policy?”

    Armed drone attacks make war into a boys computer game …there is no honour here….the murder of innocent civilians will encourage greater resentment and risk of a greater and dirtier war …the assassination of the suspected terrorists without fair and proper international trials propels the world into a state of permanent war and lawlessness

    • Populuxe1 9.1

      And while we’re at it we should ban our military from having guns because they might kills someone with them.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        Hey Pop. You gotta draw the line somewhere when it comes to weapons technologies. Anti-personnel mines, cluster munitions, white phosphorus munitions in the anti-personnel role, there are good military uses for those weapons. But we don’t want them.

        • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1

          I’d agree on the mines, cluster bombs and white phosphorus, but drones are a bit more multipurpose than that and I don’t see the difference between having Penguins on our Naval helicopters and Sea Sparrows on Te Kaha, and a hellfire on a drone to be used only in the defense of our territorial sovereignty.

          • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1.1

            I have little problem with sensor only unarmed drones being used solely in military ops. Problem is, once they have them, they’ll want to expand their use to ordinary civilians eg law enforcement, spying etc.

            • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Let me know when our plods start using LAVs and I’ll concede the point.

              • Colonial Viper

                Ok, sure. NZ is usually about 15 years behind US implementation, so at a guess it should happen in about 12-13 years time.

                By the way, I heard something about drones being used to assess Christchurch earthquake damage recently…

                • Populuxe1

                  By the way, I heard something about drones being used to assess Christchurch earthquake damage recently…

                  The New Zealand government actually doing something proactive about Christchurch?! Dear boy, that is positively something to CELEBRATE!

                  Here’s a funny story. You know how in New Zealand is only separated by two degrees? Yeah. So actually I knew quite a few people killed in various collapsing buildings, so just perhaps the thought of checking earthquake-damaged buildings without risking human life doesn’t worry me so much as you arguing that makes you a horrible, horrible person.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    yes sireee I guess a massive citizen facing security and surveillance state is needed to protect us from terrorists and now also earthquakes too

                    BTW bringing up the deaths of people you know in Christchurch as some kind of justification for military drone usage is pathetic. (I have no issues with non-military non-intelligence gathering non-armable drones for legit civilian use).

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      (I have no issues with non-military non-intelligence gathering non-armable drones for legit civilian use).

                      So, that would be recreation only?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hey I hear that the Pentagon is developing humanoid robotic systems solely for use in “humanitarian and rescue missions”. Hope you become a big supporter of this important and useful technology.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Yes I will be supportive of such technology. Same as I’m supportive of drones that can fly up the sides of buildings and test if they’re likely to fall down in an earthquake or not.

                      I’m not supportive of drones being used as assassination weapons in a war with no boundaries that causes massive civilian deaths that are then written off as collateral damage rather than being prosecuted for the war crimes that they represent.

              • felix

                “Let me know when our plods start using LAVs and I’ll concede the point.”

                …after it’s too late to do anything about it.

                • Populuxe1

                  Oooh, what a pickle of a paradox!

                  • lprent

                    They used them in Bosnia. Borrowed them from the English as I remember it.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    I seem to recall the military, complete with a LAV, being called in because of a gunman in Christchurch a few years ago.

                  • felix

                    “Oooh, what a pickle of a paradox!”

                    It’s not really a pickle. It demonstrates that you’re being dishonest so you can be safely ignored.

                    Oh yeah there was that incident near the hospital in Napier a couple of years ago too, but I guess that doesn’t count unless the cops were using LAVs to issue speeding tickets, due to the position of the new goalposts.

                    (of course if they were, you’d just say “the key word is SPEEDING”)

                    • Populuxe1

                      Please do ignore me, Felix, you have nothing to contribute. Of course, I’ll just leave you the last word – it seems as effective as a baby’s pacifier where you’re concerned.

                      And no, I’d say the key word is “Molinaar”

  10. Steve Wrathall 10

    So you’d prefer hand-to-hand combat? You volunteering?

    • Macro 10.1

      Typical idiotic comment from an idiot.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        If two nations decide to go to war why not…give the leadership ranks of each government knives and lock them together in a meeting room. Something will get sorted out, quickly, cheaply, and without the loss of valuable civilian lives.

        • Macro 10.1.1.1

          yes i agree! but i don’t quite think that is what the idiot was referring to

  11. Hennie van der Merwe 11

    I would propose that these strikes only be allowed on foreign soil (territory) if the operator has officially declared war against that foreign territory.
    What gives any country the right to “invade” another and kill its citizens or residents by any means except in an officially declared war.
    In my mind a country cannot declare war in its essence against an ideology or terrosism and use this to legalise their actions.
    Just my penny’s worth.
    PS Something that I have never been able to get my mind around is the fact that in most countries it is a serious offence to take another’s life, however, once two (or more) politicians decide that war is on, then it is a crime punishable by death if one does not kill.

    • Ad 11.1

      Have a read of the Geneva Conventions – you will figure out the difference betwen war and killing. In fact have a look at coverage of the Nuremburg Trials – you will get the idea.

  12. Pablo 12

    The conversation so far demonstrates why a public debate is needed.

    R&D on larger drones such as the Reaper, Predator and Global Hawk (to say nothing of Israeli, Chinese and Russian models, among many others) has largely leveled off (besides the usual payload, stealth, speed, maneuverability and survivability upgrades), with the focus shifting to miniaturization designed for tactical contexts (urban in particular). The US military is hard at work designing and trialling automated squad weapons platforms in the air and on land, and robotics of all sorts are now designed with at least half an eye towards weapons applications. Whether using swarm or stealth tactics, armed unmanned platforms are seen by military planners and weapons designers as having high utility in future battlefields, conventional as well as unconventional.

    These can and will eventually be used in domestic as well as foreign contexts. Police already use robots for EOD and forced entry work, some with non-lethal weapons deployed (e.g. tear gas). The array of land-based robotics in development is staggering, and naval UAVs are in the pipeline (all of these with lethal potential). I think that it would be wise to reflect on these future applications with an eye towards developing legal and operational frameworks governing their use (or non-use). Among other things, that is where the rubber will meet the road when it comes to the balance of realism and idealism in NZ foreign, defense and domestic security policy.

    Kiwipolitico has a series of posts that mention various aspects of drone warfare. NRT has a link (above) to the post proposing that unilateral renunciation be debated.

  13. Ad 13

    I don’t see any argument to ban them other than some conflation with a general hating of United States’ surveillance techniques. Separate issues.

    David Remnick in The NewYorker earlier this year says “we are in the same position now, with drones, that we were with nuclear weapons in 1945. For the moment, we are the only ones with this technology that is going to change the morality, psychology, and stratgegic thinking of warfare for years to come.”

    I would argue, in contrast, that they have no unique features to other kind of military technology.
    - Like armed heilcopters, they hover
    - Like guided missiles, they are deployed from afar
    - Like many weapons systems of this decade, they are very precise
    - Like many missile and large gun systems, they are human-guided from afar

    If we wanted to get to the heart of it and vent our frustration at the US choosing not to be subject to international law because they go at it with or without declaring war, well great.
    But outlawing lethal drones won’t get near that.

    • lprent 13.1

      The biggest issue I see with them is the question about who you charge for killing civilians with them in a time of war or in peace. At present the US is dodging that and pretty much ignoring all international rules about atrocities, war crimes, and civilian on their use. That is because they appear to be the only forces actively using them against targets outside of the battlefield

      They are effectively defining the doctrines of their use. At present, that doctrine appears to be that they are used purely for the purpose of terrorism.

      Problem then is that every tinpot dictator who gets them now has a perfect example to point them at as the assassinate their dissident groups in other countries, ignoring “collateral damage” of the deaths of bystanders.

      For that matter, the US is in effect validating their use as terrorist weapons by terrorist groups. What is the difference between driving a plane into a building with hated enemies and firing a missile into a building with a hated enemy?

  14. Draco T Bastard 14

    I’m thinking that this is the wrong discussion. Drones obviously come under existing rules as they’re nothing more than military aircraft.

    The discussion we really need to have is about the legality of the War on Terrorism, how the US is using that to engage in acts of terrorism and how the Rest of the World isn’t willing to hold the US to account for those acts.

    • lprent 14.1

      That I’d fully agree with. Currently the US is acting like a rogue state employing terrorist techniques.

      It is going to be a bastard when other states start following their example.

    • Ad 14.2

      Fully agree.

    • Colonial Viper 14.3

      I’m thinking that this is the wrong discussion. Drones obviously come under existing rules as they’re nothing more than military aircraft.

      And what about the use of military aircraft for law enforcement, intelligence purposes? Or for spying on your own citizens?

      • Draco T Bastard 14.3.1

        Already against the law.

        • Colonial Viper 14.3.1.1

          Even if that were true. Who audits and enforces those laws. And where is the budget to do that coming from? No where, right?

          • Draco T Bastard 14.3.1.1.1

            I agree that the laws governing intelligence gathering and enforcement of those laws need to be updated.

          • Populuxe1 14.3.1.1.2

            Who audits and enforces any of our laws?

      • Populuxe1 14.3.2

        …or a bored teenager attaching a smart phone to a remote control model helicopter…

        • Colonial Viper 14.3.2.1

          That’s the difference between an airsoft pistol and an anti-materiel gun. Although the spooks have been known to use their technology to get their jollies off as well.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.4

      DtB exactly. Everything about the use of drones is fucked because the war on terror is an oxymoron.

      • lprent 14.4.1

        The problem is that how the US has deployed their drones on the “war on terror” has been to use them as a weapon of terror without significiant regard to casualties or national bounds..

        That is going to reflect now in how all nations who have such weapons or nations who get them in the future will operate them as a relatively cheap weapon of state or (just as bad) private terrorism.

        Wait until the terrorists buy and use them…

        That is the problem.

        • Draco T Bastard 14.4.1.1

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbITzCI2AU0
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elfj4ytDAJc
          http://diydrones.com/

          If I had built either of those remote controlled planes they would have been drones. It really can’t be that long until the terrorists make them.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.4.1.2

          The whole topic is soaked in morbidity, but for what it’s worth, terrorists are generally interested in soft targets. Why are drones a more effective delivery method than (say) car bombs?

          • Colonial Viper 14.4.1.2.1

            This is just nonsensical and ignorant a question.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 14.4.1.2.1.1

              Cars are cheap. They draw no attention, they require no special skills or cell-phone coverage, and if you think driving a truck bomb into the front of an embassy somehow sends less of a message than a missile attack inside the perimeter you’re a fool, but I already said that.

              • Colonial Viper

                Yes I may be a fool, but your suggestion that a successful car or truck bombing requires “no special skills” is nothing short of ignorant.

          • Colonial Viper 14.4.1.2.2

            Regardless of that, here’s your fucking answer Armchair General Lefty

            http://www.usembassymanilavisa.com/usembassymanilabuilding.jpg

            • One Anonymous Bloke 14.4.1.2.2.1

              Looks like a soft target to me, armchair MP.

              • Colonial Viper

                You made an assumption right at the start which I don’t think holds – that terrorists are mainly interested in soft targets. Just think about the USS Cole, or the suicide bombing of dozens of US marines in Beiruit. You don’t get harder targets than that.

                A more solid assumption would be this – that terrorists go for the most effective targets that their capabilities allow.

                And drone tech significantly extends those capabilities.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  They were soft targets too: “…a visibly low state of situational awareness”; very little military advantage gained.

                  A bit like drones really.

    • Colonial Viper 14.5

      I’m thinking that this is the wrong discussion. Drones obviously come under existing rules as they’re nothing more than military aircraft.

      I really hate this kind of naive carry on from lefties.

      All you guys seem bedazzled with the superficial idea that the thing looks like an aircraft and flies like an aircraft, so its just like any other military aircraft.

      In reality drones are advanced weapon and sensor platforms with capacity for massive levels of future automation and autonomous mission execution. They bring advanced new capabilities to military operators and make feasible the kinds of operations which would otherwise be impossible.

      • Draco T Bastard 14.5.1

        In reality drones are advanced weapon and sensor platforms with capacity for massive levels of future automation and autonomous mission execution.

        Except for the automation modern military aircraft are exactly the same.

        Oh, wait, that one’s 50+ years old.

        They bring advanced new capabilities to military operators and make feasible the kinds of operations which would otherwise be impossible.

        Not really unless you’re looking solely at cost and I really don’t believe that would make any difference either.

        • Colonial Viper 14.5.1.1

          love these lefties. you might as well go work for lockheed martin.

          • Draco T Bastard 14.5.1.1.1

            I just pointed out that your assertions were bollocks.

            • Colonial Viper 14.5.1.1.1.1

              Nah you just pointed out that you don’t understand what fundamentally new capabilities modern drones bring to battle space operations, and in fact you probably think that an Enfield rifle and a Phalanx CIWS are basically the same class of weapon because they both fire bullets.

              • Draco T Bastard

                /facepalm

                • Colonial Viper

                  Go weaponise the NZ airspace, what the fuck do I care, turns out this site is full of socially liberal Drone Democrats which is an informative discovery.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    You’re confusing my knowledge of weaponry with agreement that it should be used as you describe.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      +1

                      Oh, and being a prize asshole to boot.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You just compared Predators and Reapers to a 1960′s Cold War U-2. I’m surprised you didn’t compare Predators and Reapers to the WWI tri-planes they used to recon enemy positions.

                      After all they are ‘exactly the same, except for the automation’.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Oh, there’s one other way in which two pieces of military hardware are exactly the same. Deploying either against civilians in peacetime is a war crime.

                      What part of this isn’t getting through to you?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Which part of ‘the nature and history of military drone use has been one against civilian populations and with many civilian casualties’ isn’t registering with you?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      None. It’s a war crime. Discussing the ramifications of this somehow equates to supporting it, in your fevered imagination.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      “It’s a war crime”

                      Do keep saying that. It’ll help salve your conscience as yet another Drone Democrat.

                      Fact of the matter is of course, while we know that there have been many civilians killed by drone strikes in Iraq, Afghanistan, and very likely in Palestine/Lebanon ZERO CHARGES have been brought against those drone operators, and that is the way it is likely to stay.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If you’re going to persist in the delusion that I support their deployment I’m going to treat you with contempt and ridicule, armchair MP.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      You just compared Predators and Reapers to a 1960′s Cold War U-2.

                      I compared two aircraft that do the same job and are in use today. One just so happens to have been around for 50+ years but you’re not complaining about it. This denotes a serious case of double standards on your part.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I support a ban on armed military drones as well as drones designed to unaccountably surveil the general population; on the other hand I don’t give a fuck about U-2′s and U2 deployment in NZ or the Pacific.

                      If that’s a “double standard” so fucking be it.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The double standard undermines any argument that you make.

    • Phil Sage 14.6

      For the last few hundred years wars have been between states. The war on terror is a clash of civilisations. Why should one side tie both hands behind their back. Your logic suggests that the intervention in Afghanistan was “illegal” because it was not preceded by niceties of a formal court of law. That is war.
      The West is perfectly justified in using weaponised drones to visually identify and eliminate targets in the war on terror. Collateral damage is being reduced by the use of drones with higher accuracy and a consequently lower explosive force.

      If you argue that there is no war on terror is that because you think the islamists are not dedicated to a global caliphate, you think it is bad tactics and worse strategy or you think we should give in?

      • Draco T Bastard 14.6.1

        The war on terror is a clash of civilisations.

        Don’t kid yourself – the War on Terror is the US Empire attacking a marginalised religious group. A group that would likely have gone the way of the dodo decades ago if the West hadn’t kept attacking and holding back the M.E.

        Collateral damage is being reduced by the use of drones with higher accuracy and a consequently lower explosive force.

        Actually, the collateral damage done by the US is a why crime as it far exceeds the damage done to the militants. The US is engaging in more terrorism than the militants.

  15. RedLogix 15

    I’m surprised no-one has brought up the next shoe – autonomous killing machines.

    It would appear that at least one especially objectionable aspect of lethal drones is that they allow their operators to be entirely removed from the killing zone, comfortably in a dark ops center with zero personal risk or physical involvement. It’s this ‘killing at a distance’ which disconnects and insulates the machine operator from any sense of their consequences which essentially cheapens the price of a human life to essentially zero.

    At least the weapons officer of a nuclear armed ICBM sub went about his duties vividly aware of the extremely high price of a mistake – a lethal drone operator not nearly so much.

    Which is of course only one relatively small step away from removing the operator from the transaction altogether, and unleashing autonomous carnage machines with murderous intent – and zero conscience.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Bunch of pro-military Drone Democrats on this site. Let’s end child poverty but have Reapers flying overhead their kindergartens.

      Waste of fucking time even talking to these morally confused individuals.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        Let’s end child poverty but have Reapers flying overhead their kindergartens.

        Last time I looked children didn’t eat either aluminium nor silicon.

        You’re confusing money for resource.

        • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1

          I said morally confused Draco, that should give you a fucking clue as to what I meant – it’s not a point to do with either money or resources.

        • RedLogix 15.1.1.2

          I think the point is DtB that immensely cheap computing power has placed us on a remarkably parallel precipice to the same one Europe was perched upon exactly 100 years ago.

          They all knew war could be hard, brutal business – but conducted according to the rules as they understood them at that time it could also be a useful, morally justified tool for a nation. Indeed serving in the military came with a considerable degree of honour and social respectability.

          They had absolutely no inkling of the mass horrors of mechanised trench warfare that lay just months into their future. They had no idea that in less than a year, 20,000 troops would be wiped out in a matter of minutes in a futile bid to gain mere yards of useless mud. High rate machine guns existed, but they had been used in far-off lands against peoples no-one cared about. Tanks were still lumbering toys of dubious utility and while poison gas sounded unpleasant – the nightmare of it’s mass impact remained unimagined.

          But at least it was all conducted on a battlefield and you could tell mostly who was a combatant and who was not. These future autonomous, remote killing machines will care not a jot about any of that. There will be no battlefields – anyone, anywhere, anytime will be a target.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.2.1

            New Pentagon robots are designed only for “humanitarian” service and rescue. LOL

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TE3CJfgaLQ

            • RedLogix 15.1.1.2.1.1

              I’m thinking in terms of ‘full spectrum dominance’. How layers of sensors weapons based in space, air, subsea and cyber will be used to build a complete picture of operations and optimal targeting strategies using hardened, ultra-secure networks and supercomputers.

              There will be nowhere to hide.

              The robots will be mainly used to mop up the last most stubborn resistance.

              • Colonial Viper

                At least you’ve been paying attention RL. BTW I’m pretty sure that Russia and China have both analysed this US doctrine and have decided that EW/cyberwarfare, anti-satellite and EMP weapons are perfect for targetting the weak points in the technology.

                Iranians demonstrating their ability to ‘midair hijack’ US military drones, for instance.

                • RedLogix

                  And there you have put your finger on the proximate cause of WW1.

                  The Germans faced two potential fronts, one from the Russians the other from France and Britain. Despite having the best army in Europe conventional wisdom was that they could not win a war on both fronts at the same time. But they considered that the Russians would take at least 100 days to mobilise, much less advance through Poland into Germany.

                  On the other hand a fast lightening strike against a weaker France, concluded within a few months would shut down that front – freeing up the German army to swing about and fully engage Russia – against whom a victory was considered probable.

                  When the Czar implemented a preparatory partial mobilisation, the window of opportunity on this asymmetric tactical advantage began to close rapidly, forcing Germany to invade Belgium. The whole plan unravelled at Marne – bogging the Germans down in trenches and forcing the Germans into an defensive posture they could never recover from. It was in many ways a war no-one really wanted – but one they felt forced into for fear of losing the strategic advantage.

                  The same logic will apply if the USA begins to believe it’s strategic advantage is about to be lost.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    And failing empires do not do nice, rational things. In fact, a collective insanity can and usually does take hold.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                The fact that full spectrum dominance leaves nowhere to hide makes hiding pointless and leads directly to “collateral” murder.

                If they can hit me anywhere I may as well go to that wedding.

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    Tumeke | 02-09
  • Spying on their allies again
    The Intercept has a major new story about the US's intelligence relationship with Turkey, and how the US monitors the Kurds for the Turkish government, even helping them target hit squads. But at the same time as they're spying for...
    No Right Turn | 02-09
  • The Press Debate – tonight, livestreamed on Stuff
    The second big head-to-head between David Cunliffe and John Key will be livestreamed on Stuff from 7pm! The Press leaders’ debate is where Key pulled his “show me the money” quote in 2011. And he’s going to be taking this...
    Boots Theory | 02-09
  • Not business as usual: Key’s leadership style & the bloggersphere
    Two weeks ago I suggested this could turn into New Zealand's first policy-free election; my instinct seems to have been proven correct. While policy debates are still occuring around the fringes, there is no way now that with just two...
    Pundit | 02-09
  • Rock Star or Rock Bottom
    There was a story in the Press yesterday about 14 people sharing a small 3 bedroom house in Hornby after a family of 6 lost their rental and all their (uninsured) possessions in a fire and had to move in...
    Te Whare Whero | 02-09
  • Greens workers policy supported by union movement
    The CTU is supporting the Green Party’s policy launched today focused on improving life for working New Zealanders. Photo:  ...
    CTU | 02-09
  • To drive or not to drive, that is the question: generation Y research
    This is a guest post from Dr Debbie Hopkins, a Postdoctoral Research Fellow at the University of Otago – she’s currently doing some research for the NZTA on non-drivers. Read on to find out more and see if you might...
    Transport Blog | 02-09
  • Reclaiming the Third Way & why it’s not a sell-out
    During a visit he made to Melbourne in 2000, I joined some colleagues to sit down for a chat with Dick Morris, the self-proclaimed strategic mastermind who claimed to have single-handedly rescued Bill Clinton's flailing presidency and coined the term...
    Pundit | 02-09
  • The Greens on work and wages
    The Greens released their work and wages policy today, targeted firmly at improving living standards and reducing inequality. The headline policy is an immediate increase in the minimum wage to $16/hour, followed by annual increases to reach $18/hour in 2017....
    No Right Turn | 01-09
  • America, America ….
    We hear a lot about American exceptionalism – what they lead the world in, what they think they lead the world in, and their unshakeable belief in their god-given right to do so.  The USA has the highest per capita ownership of...
    Te Whare Whero | 01-09
  • The caretaker convention and elections
    There was an interesting discussion on Twitter yesterday between Dean Knight and Graeme Edgeler about the caretaker convention and elections. Dean highlighted the fact that Key had a perfect right to call for whatever sort of inquiry he felt like,...
    No Right Turn | 01-09
  • A clayton’s inquiry
    That's the only way to describe John Key's proposed "inquiry" into Judith Collins:An inquiry into the events surrounding Judith Collins' downfall will not examine the relationship between her and Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater or the Serious Fraud Office investigation...
    No Right Turn | 01-09
  • YahooNZ’s news polls
    Another YahooNZ poll': September 1st"Do you think Dirty Politics is distracting from more important issues this election?" Results at the time of writing this:Yes. absolutely77%  (5622)  No, it's important22%  (1619)   I'm not sure1%  (66)    The capitals on 'Dirty Politics' clearly...
    Te Whare Whero | 01-09
  • Vote Choice: ACT’s Jamie Whyte – a ‘Narrow’ Ally?
    This week, the Vote Choice series looks at Dr Jamie Whyte, the leader of the ACT party, and his views on abortion and decriminalisation. A google search of Whyte and abortion provides little in the way of his opinion but...
    ALRANZ | 01-09
  • Who is Carrick Graham?
    Carrick GrahamIn damage control since their campaign officially began derailing a couple of weeks ago, things took another terrible turn for the National party last weekend. Not only did the corrupt Judith Collins have to resign on Saturday because of...
    The Jackal | 01-09
  • Judith, Cam, and the phantom FB messages
    I see that Judith Collins and Cameron Slater believe the hacker has simply invented Facebook conversations between the two of them. Insitnctively I don;t believe the denials, but I have an idea that could help Collins clear her name. Facebook...
    Polity | 01-09
  • Judith, Cameron, and the phantom FB messages
    I see that Judith Collins and Cameron Slater believe the hacker has simply invented Facebook conversations between the two of them. Insitnctively I don;t believe the denials, but I have an idea that could help Collins clear her name. Facebook...
    Polity | 01-09
  • Matthew Hooton’s dirty tactics
    Outside observers might be watching the National party unravelling and wondering what the hell is going on. This is especially the case with one particular right wing propagandist, Matthew Hooton.At first Hooton’s behaviour might seem a bit strange. He has...
    The Jackal | 01-09
  • Is Petrol cheap?
    I don’t tend to look at the motoring section of the Herald much however every now and then something stands out - often for its comedy value - and that was the case yesterday in an article titled Motoring Mythbusting. The article covers off...
    Transport Blog | 01-09
  • People of Turkey, Ukraine, I salute you!
    For some reason, I seem to be getting a lot of visits from Turkey.  Or perhaps that's just where IP address disguisers are presenting as at the moment.  But I like to thin the Ruritanian nature of New Zealand politics...
    Left hand palm | 01-09
  • The health pillar of good government
    Whatever the result on September 20, John Key will start the next term with diminished personal authority. Our democracy’s health is also diminished. Key’s inch-by-inch retreat to the point where his imagined leftwing conspiracy turned into a rightwing one and...
    Colin James | 01-09
  • Keystone XL: Oil Markets and Emissions
    Estimates of the incremental emission effects of individual oil sands projects like the Keystone XL (KXL) pipeline are sensitive to assumptions about the response of world markets and alternative transportation options. A recent Nature Climate Change paper by Erickson and...
    Skeptical Science | 01-09
  • Union to support Work and Income staff following tragedy
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says today’s shooting at a Work and Income office is a tragedy, and nobody should...
    PSA | 01-09
  • We no longer have a Prime Minister
    Having just listened to an item featuring John Key on Checkpoint (National Radio) I now have to announce that New Zealand has no-one at present performing the proper role of Prime Minister. John Key could not have acted less Prime Ministerial if he had...
    Political Scientist | 01-09
  • We no longer have a Prime Minister
    Having just listened to an item featuring John Key on Checkpoint (National Radio) I now have to announce that New Zealand has no-one at present performing the proper role of Prime Minister. John Key could not have acted less Prime Ministerial if he had...
    The Political Scientist | 01-09
  • Ashburton, 1 September 2014.
    Crime Scene: The murder of two WINZ workers and the wounding of another in Ashburton adds another tragic chapter to New Zealand's grim history of lone men committing multiple murders.I NEVER WENT BACK to Aramoana after the killing. I had...
    Bowalley Road | 01-09
  • Radio NZ: Politics with Matthew Hooton and Mike Williams – 1 September 20...
    . - Politics on Nine To Noon - . - Monday 1 September 2014 - . - Kathryn Ryan, with Matthew Hooton & Mike Williams - . Today on Politics on Nine To Noon, Mike Williams and Matthew Hooton on...
    Frankly Speaking | 01-09
  • Labour will strengthen New Zealand’s democracy
    A Labour Government will act quickly to protect and enhance New Zealand’s reputation as one of the most open and least corrupt countries in the world, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “The health of any democracy is improved by greater...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority – Minto
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”,  said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in the...
    Mana | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National – Minto
    “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira.  Now we have Slater writing a pro-Te Ururoa Flavell article on his website, Whale...
    Mana | 02-09
  • There’s Only One Poll That Counts
    “One of the oldest sayings in politics is that there is only one poll that counts – the one on Election Day – and that’s the one that I am focusing on” remarked the MANA Movement candidate for Waiariki, Annette...
    Mana | 02-09
  • Local communities critical to Civil Defence
    Labour will focus on empowering New Zealand communities to be resilient in Civil Defence disasters, says Labour’s Civil Defence spokesperson Clare Curran. Announcing Labour’s Civil Defence policy, she says that Labour will work with schools, voluntary agencies and community groups...
    Labour | 02-09
  • Labour looks to long-life passports, gambling harm review
    A return to 10 year passports and a review of gambling laws are highlights of Labour’s Internal Affairs policy released today. “More than 15,000 New Zealanders signed a petition calling on the Government to revert to the 10 year system...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement Leadership stands strong behind Internet MANA relationship
    “There is now, and always will be, a range of views about many issues within our movement and members are free to express them, but Georgina’s views on Kim Dotcom are not shared by the MANA Movement leadership or the vast majority...
    Mana | 01-09
  • Rebuilding the New Zealand Defence Force
    A Labour Government will make it a priority to rebuild the capacity of the Defence Force to carry out the tasks expected of it, says Labour’s Defence Spokesperson Phil Goff. Releasing Labour’s Defence Policy today he said the NZDF has...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Speech to Canterbury Chamber of Commerce
    Today I'm going to talk about our policy package to upgrade and grow our economy and how we turn that growth into a foundation for a decent and fair society. But first I want to address the issue of our...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Commission of Inquiry must have bipartisan support
    The Labour Party is drafting terms of reference for a Commission of Inquiry, Labour’s Shadow Attorney-General David Parker says. “It is abundantly clear there is a need for an independent Commission of Inquiry, chaired by a High Court Judge, into...
    Labour | 01-09
  • Rapid Transit to unclog Christchurch
    Labour will build a 21st century Rapid Transit system for Christchurch, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “The long delayed recovery of Christchurch hinges on a modern commuter system for the city. “We will invest $100 million in a modern rail plan...
    Labour | 31-08
  • Labour’s commitment to public broadcasting
    A Labour Government will set up a working group to re-establish a public service television station as part of our commitment to ensuring New Zealand has high quality free-to-air local content. “We will set up a working group to report...
    Labour | 31-08
  • A new deal for the conservation estate
    The health of our economy depends on New Zealand preserving and restoring our land, air, water and indigenous wildlife, says Labour’s Conservation spokesperson Ruth Dyson. Announcing Labours Conservation policy, she said that there will be a comprehensive plan to restore...
    Labour | 31-08
  • Labour’s plan to end homelessness
    Labour has a comprehensive approach to end homelessness starting with the provision of emergency housing for 1000 people each year and putting an end to slum conditions in boarding houses, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Labour believes that homelessness is not...
    Labour | 30-08
  • Labour: A smarter approach to justice
    A Labour Government will improve the justice system to ensure it achieves real public safety, provides equal access to justice and protects human rights, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Andrew Little says. “Our approach is about tackling the root causes of crime, recognising...
    Labour | 29-08
  • Labour to foster Kiwi love of sport and the great outdoors
    A Labour Government will promote physical activity, back our top athletes and help foster Kiwis’ love of the great outdoors by upgrading tramping and camping facilities. Trevor Mallard today released Labour’s sports and recreation policy which will bring back a...
    Labour | 29-08
  • Pacific languages recognised under Labour
    Labour will act to recognise the five main Pacific languages in New Zealand including through the education system, said Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio. Announcing Labour’s Pacific Island policy he said that there must be a strong commitment to...
    Labour | 29-08
  • No healthy economy without a healthy environment
    Labour recognises that we cannot have a healthy economy without a healthy environment, says Environment spokesperson Moana Mackey announcing Labour’s environment policy. “New Zealand’s economy has been built on the back of the enormous environmental wealth we collectively enjoy as...
    Labour | 28-08
  • Better protection, fairer deal for Kiwi consumers
    Tackling excessive prices, ensuring consumers have enough information to make ethical choices and giving the Commerce Commission more teeth are highlights of Labour’s Consumer Rights policy. “The rising cost of living is a concern for thousands of Kiwi families. A...
    Labour | 28-08
  • Media Advisory – MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki Annette Sykes, Waia...
    Media are advised that this coming weekend, the MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki, Annette Sykes, will be on the Internet MANA Road Trip within the electorate of Waiariki. Speakers confirmed are Annette Sykes, Hone Harawira, John Minto, Laila Harre and Kim...
    Mana | 27-08
  • Internet MANA – Waiariki Road Trip: 29, 30, 31 Aug 2014
    The Internet MANA Road Trip hits Waiariki this weekend. It would be great if all MANA members in Waiariki could especially attend the public meetings and show their support for our Waiariki candidate Annette Sykes. Confirmed speakers Hone Harawira (except Taupo), Annette...
    Mana | 27-08
  • First home buyers $200 a week better off with Labour
    A couple earning around $75,000 a year would be $200 a week better off buying a two bedroom terraced Labour KiwiBuild home instead of an equivalent new build under National’s housing policy, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe.  “National’s policy to...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Another Day – Another big power profit
    The latest profit announcement from Genesis Energy shows that the power company was sold for a song to the detriment of the country’s power consumers, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “A net profit of $ 49.2 million follows hard...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour embraces the rainbow
    Labour will work hard to ensure all New Zealanders enjoy the freedom to grow up and live their lives in dignity and security. Labour’s Rainbow policy, released tonight in Wellington, focuses on International Relations, Human Rights and Education....
    Labour | 26-08
  • National gets fast and loose with the facts
    In their desperation to make it look as though they are doing something about the housing crisis, National is playing fast and loose with the facts, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford....
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour will drop power prices for Kiwi families
    New Zealanders will get cheaper power prices under NZ Power, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “The electricity market is clearly broken. With falling demand for electricity, prices should be going down. Instead prices are going up and companies are extracting...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour: Promoting sustainable tourism
    Ensuring New Zealand’s clean, green status continues to be an international tourism benchmark and reviewing MBIE’s oversight of the tourism sector will be on the radar under a Labour Government. Releasing Labour’s Tourism policy today, spokesperson Darien Fenton said tourism...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Skills shortage a result of National’s complacency
    The fact that there is still a severe shortage of skilled tradespeople, despite a growth in the number of apprentices, is a result of National’s failure to plan and develop the workforce, Grant Robertson, Labour Employment, Skills and TrainingSpokesperson says."The...
    Labour | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker?? – Mint...
    MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is calling for a radical overhaul of New Zealand’s taxation system with calculations showing that a minimum wage worker pays a ten times higher tax rate than the Prime Minister. o Minimum wage...
    Mana | 25-08
  • Labour’s culture of science and innovation
    Labour will create a culture of science and innovation in New Zealand that will be the envy of the world, says Labour’s Innovation, Research and Development spokesperson Megan Woods. “Labour believes that good science lies at the heart of a...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Improving life for our new New Zealanders
    New Zealand’s international standing as a community that encourages and fosters all cultures will be bolstered under a Labour Government with an upgrade of the present Office of Ethnic Affairs to a Ministry. Releasing Labour’s Ethnic Affairs policy, spokesperson Phil...
    Labour | 25-08
  • South Auckland housing crisis
    National’s HomeStart package is nothing more than a political stunt designed to beguile South Auckland voters, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio. “Few working Pasifika and Maori workers in South Auckland will be able to buy their own...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Home buyer subsidy discredited in Oz
    Treasury advised against National’s policy of ramping up home buyer subsidies after it was discredited in Australia because it pushed house prices even higher, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Documents released under the OIA (attached) show Treasury advised the...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Nursing hours explain turnover and high-stress culture
    A staff survey supports concerns nursing staff at Dunedin Hospital are under increasing pressure and that the emergency department is in a critical state, says Labour’s Associate Health Spokesperson David Clark.  “An ED nursing survey at Dunedin found that 80...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Underhand tactics prove case for axing donations
    Revelations that schools are using underhand tactics to coerce donations from cash-strapped parents further highlights the need for Labour's plan to increase funding so they aren't dependent on contributions from parents, Labour's Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “By law New...
    Labour | 24-08
  • National applies band-aid to housing crisis
    The Government’s flagship housing announcement is a band-aid approach that will push up prices rather than solve the housing crisis, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “House sales to first home buyers have collapsed as a direct result of the Government’s...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Climate change focus on the now for the future
    A Labour Governmentwill put in place a comprehensive climate change strategy focusing on bothmitigation and adaptation, establish an independent Climate Commission andimplement carbon budgeting, says Labour Climate Change spokesperson MoanaMackey."This is about future-proofing our economy. Making the transition to alow-carbon...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Labour’s 21st century transport pledge
    The next Labour-led Government will create a 21st century transport system for New Zealand that promotes the most efficient and sustainable combination of transport options, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour will rebalance the Government's transport spending away from...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Housing under National: the facts
    1.       House prices in Auckland Council valuations indicate Auckland house prices have gone up by one-third over the last three years. (Auckland Council) The average Auckland house price has gone up by nearly $225,000 since 2008, up over $75,000 in...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Labour irons out low income tax issue
    The increasing casualisation of work has led to many New Zealand families being disadvantaged through the tax they pay, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. "Many low paid workers are having to work two or three jobs to make ends meet...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Cornered Government comes out swinging
    The National Government is so desperate to keep its dead-in-the-water expert teachers policy alive, it has refused to rule out forcing schools to participate through legislation, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “John Key today attacked the Educational Institute for...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Pacific people continue to go backwards under National
    A report from Victoria University highlights the fact that Pacific people are continuing to go backwards under a National Government, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio.  “The report shows the largest inequality increases were in smoking, obesity, tertiary...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Wellington transport plan needs to keep moving
    The failure of the Transport Agency to properly look at alternatives to the Basin Reserve flyover is not a good reason for further delays to improving transport in Wellington, Labour MPs Grant Robertson and Annette King say. “The Board of...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Labour’s focus on inequality, kids and better job prospects
    Tackling child poverty and removing barriers to people working part time to enhance their prospects of moving into a fulltime job are highlights of Labour’s Social Development policy. Releasing the policy today, spokesperson Sue Moroney said while part-time work was...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Political staff should give answers under oath
    The Inspector General of Security and Intelligence should use her full statutory powers to question witnesses under oath about the leak of SIS information, says Labour MP Phil Goff. “Leakage of confidential information from the SIS for political purposes is...
    Labour | 21-08
  • High dollar, hands-off Govt sends workers to dole queue
    The loss of up to 100 jobs at Croxley stationery in Auckland is devastating news for their families and the local Avondale community, Labour’s Employment, Skills and Training spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The company’s inability to compete in international markets...
    Labour | 21-08
  • National’s flagship education policy dead in the water
    National’s plan to create executive principals and expert teachers is effectively dead in the water with news that 93 percent of primary teachers have no confidence in the scheme, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The fact that teachers are...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Dunedin will be a knowledge and innovation centre under Labour
    Dunedin will become a knowledge and innovation centre under a Labour Government that will back local businesses, support technology initiatives and fund dynamic regional projects, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Nowhere has the National Government’s short-sightedness been more apparently than...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Inquiry into SIS disclosures the right decision
    Labour MP Phil Goff says the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has done the right thing by launching an inquiry into the disclosure of SIS documents about a meeting between himself and the agency’s former director-general. “This inquiry is necessary...
    Labour | 20-08
  • Labour – supporting and valuing carers and the cared for
    Placing real value on our elderly and the people who care for them will be a priority for a Labour Government, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. Releasing Labour’s Senior Citizens policy today David Cunliffe promised that a Labour Government would...
    Labour | 20-08
  • The Daily Blog 2014 progressive voter guide – who to vote for to change ...
    If you want to know how to vote in a way to change this Government,  here is the electorate by electorate guide on how to strategically vote to kick National out of office. There are two votes. Electorate vote and Party...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Are Cameron Slater and Judiith Collins bare-faced liars?
    . . Are Cameron Slater and Judith Collins both bare-faced liars? Both of them. Liars? Here is why I ask… In the latest revelations, information disclosed by Rawshark/Whaledump to the NZ Herald alleges in further leaked sensitive information from  ...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • What has surprised me most about the Ashburton WINZ shootings
    The terrible deaths at a WINZ office in Ashburton took us all by surprise. Staunch poverty campaigner Sue Bradford commented before the deaths were known and was attacked by waves of twitterarti who knew best. Sue apologised but her wider...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kiri Hannifin  – Make domestic violence an election issue
    Violence against women and children continues to be a profound issue in this country.  Despite the stellar efforts of thousands of grass roots workers to support victims of violence every day, we cannot seem to stem the tide. The past...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Factchecking Key’s Leaders debate claims
    There were so many questionable facts Key threw at Cunliffe in last nights debate that I emailed a few contacts to ask if they were true. Here is the very long list of things Key said that simply were not...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • August Blog stats – TDB closing in on Kiwiblog – our final election con...
    The August blog stats are in, and The Daily Blog retains our position as the largest left wing blog in NZ with 416 374 visits last month and 667 411. Kiwi Blog who has been operating for a decade with...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – New Zealand First: Coalition of the Willing...
    There is, right now, an absolute metric truck-tonne of misinformation, lies, and willful distortion flying about on social media, in the blogosphere and even in the media and corridors of power about New Zealand First’s coalition position. Some of this...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Judith Collins i...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • The Press Leaders Debate – proof a newspaper can kill the internet
    No more beersies for you Mr Key. Seriously – was the Prime Minister drunk during this debate? I am so sickened by what passed as a Leaders debate, I will make this review short and vicious. Everyone involved in putting...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Voting starts tomorrow!
    On the telly, in the papers, on the Net, billboards on almost every street corner – it’s hard to miss the fact that there’s an election coming up. Everyone’s trying to win your vote on Election Day, September 20, (this...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Collins inquiry a whitewash before it has even started
    The farce whitewash that Key is trying to push through here for the inquiry into Judith Collins role in a hit on the SFO should enrage any NZer, regardless of how they vote. Whaleoil won’t be forced to appear, it’s...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Press Leaders Debate – Round 2 – 7pm tonight
    This debate is live in a Town Hall, Key has done well at these in the past, but since the hate politics exposed in Dirty Politics, expect real fury directed at Key. My guess is that Key will attempt to use whatever he...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • MANA hit speed wobbles – why Annette Sykes will win Waiariki
    MANA are my favourites. But of late, their transition from crawling to sprinting has hit some speed wobbles. Hone’s and Pam’s aggressive attitude towards the media recently is very understandable in light of how connected many of the media were to...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • Soz Cam – PaknSave boycott of whaleoil continues – time to start a boyc...
    Cam is so carcinogenic now, not even his mates in the Tobacco Industry are talking to him any longer. I suspect only the Israeli Defence Force propaganda department are paying for content on whaleoil now. Cam says that PaknSave have dropped their problems...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • The Rock Fuels NZ Roastbuster Rape Culture
    This is making me feel pretty uncomfortable. Here we have an instance of Jono and Ben posing like “exposed celebrities”. But do you know what I’m seeing? I’m seeing two dudes who basically “roasted” a woman online (exposed pictures of...
    The Daily Blog | 02-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – Why beneficiaries need advocacy
    There are times when I am wrong. I was wrong recently when someone suggested to me that AAAP should be eligible for government funding to continues its advocacy work. That was before. Before dealing with advocacy on a weekly basis...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • TheDailyBlog September Political Poll Has Been Kicked Off
    The Daily Blog’s August poll has concluded and the September poll has been kicked off, asking readers: What party will you likely vote for at this year’s General Election? You will see this month’s poll in the right-hand sidebar of...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Jamie Whyte, leave that poor seal alone!
    Worse than showing mere lip service to Rainbow inclusion, ACT leader Jamie Whyte showed stunning arrogance when appeared at a candidates debate on rainbow issues hosted by the Auckland University Students’ Association last Thursday. The stunning hypocrisy was evident as...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Right wing can’t help but use scum
    Some people have been shocked that the traditional right wing party in New Zealand politics is so deeply embedded with scum like the blogger Whale Oil. We need not be so surprised. It takes a certain type to support the...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • EXCLUSIVE: National’s Ohariu candidate admits contact by Simon Lusk
    . . Wellington, NZ, 31  August – At a meet-the-candidates public meeting in the Rongotai Electorate, National’s Ohariu candidate, Brett Hudson, confirmed that he had been approached by “a mate”, who passed on a message from  National Party operative, Simon...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014
    Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Petition for Governor General of New Zealand to Investigate all the allegat...
      Now we see the inquiry will be a whitewash, that is secret, won’t be consulted with the Opposition, will have limited scope and will ignore Nicky Hager’s book, we must demand the Governor General step in and demand an...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Ashburton, 1 September 2014
    I NEVER WENT BACK to Aramoana after the killing. I had been a frequent visitor to the tiny seaside village back in the late 1970s and throughout the 80s. Its tall cliffs and broad beaches providing a colourful backdrop to...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Checkmate in 1 move – how could Slater have known what was in OIA request...
    And now we get down to the final few moves before checkmate. If the following investigation is right, how could Slater and Collins have known what was in the Secret Intelligence Service Official Information Act request that hadn’t been released...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • The Edge Posts Naked Photos Of Jennifer Lawrence Without Consent
    Today the Edge website – owned by Media Works – published fully naked photographs of Jennifer Lawrence without her consent. It is not OK to publish naked media of any woman without her consent, full stop. It is absolutely disgusting...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate ...
    Bomber, Laila and Maggie – a highlight from Auckland Broadcasting Debate 2014...
    The Daily Blog | 01-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how good was I i...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Maggie Barry slags Laila Harre & blogger, audience erupt
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting held their public meeting in Auckland last night and it became a fiery shouting match when Maggie Barry decided to slag Laila Harre and me off. 250 people packed into the Pioneer Hall off High...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • It has to be a full independent public inquiry and Key MUST front
      You know things are bad when images like this start appearing in the media.  It isn’t a ‘left wing conspiracy’ to point out the over whelming evidence of what is clearly a right wing conspiracy! If it looks like a conspiracy, sounds like a conspiracy...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Political Party social media stats – National playing Dirty Politics on s...
    Interesting data from friend of the blog, Marty Stewart, on social media likes and it shows an interesting question that post Dirty Politics should probably get asked…   …it’s interesting that Key has so many personal followers.  One wonders if...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • The depth of the National rot and the compliance of our news media
    I’m so tired. Aren’t you? I don’t want to read the news anymore. It’s awful and I feel ashamed of it. We live in a country that people all over the world would give an arm, a leg; their life...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Conservative Party candidate links smacking ban with suicide, sexually tran...
    If Chemtrails, faked moon landings and climate change denial weren’t enough, welcome to your new Minister for Spanking,  Edward Saafi... The anti-smacking law is to blame for youth suicide, youth prostitution and even sexually-transmitted infections, a leading Conservative party candidate...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on the canonisation of Matthew Hooton
    Before we all start the canonisation of Matthew Hooton, let’s consider some home truths here shall we? While the Wellington Ruminator Blog, the blog who was previously mates with Judith Collins, now seems to have a crush on Matthew Hooton… …I...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word on undercover cops in bars
    Dunedin police booze operation labelled ‘creepy’ Undercover police officers drank in Dunedin bars as part of an operation targeting liquor licensing offences. While police said the inaugural operation was a success — with most bars found compliant — the Hospitality...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Judith Collins press conference
    Judith Collins press conference...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Angry Lawyer – Collins, Odgers, Williams and legal ethics
    We deserve better lawyers than Judith Collins Three of the worst offenders exposed in Dirty Politics are lawyers: Judith Collins, Cathy Odgers, and Jordan Williams. What Nicky Hager exposed them doing would be out of line for anyone, but from...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Necessary Defence
    Increasingly climate change is becoming the main fracture line between political parties. Where political parties stand on climate change defines political parties and movements like no other issue. The Mana Movement like the Maori Party it sprang from, came out...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Why it is all over for John Key
    Image: Melanie D I’ve been confident that National will lose this election and that our focus should be on what a progressive Government needs to establish as its agenda in the first 100 days. Past that point, the establishment pushes back...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • A brief word to everyone who voted National in 2011
    I received this interesting email from a National Party supporter today… …let me say this to anyone who voted National last election – you should be ashamed by what has been revealed and what your vote ended up enabling but...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • EXCLUSIVE: Déjà Vu All Over Again: John Ansell confirms his participation...
      THE MAN BEHIND the Iwi-Kiwi billboards that very nearly won the 2005 election for Don Brash and the National Party has confirmed his involvement in businessman John Third’s and former Act MP Owen Jennings’ campaign to drive down the...
    The Daily Blog | 31-08
  • Public Broadcasting Auckland debate 6.30pm tonight now with Colin Craig &am...
    The Coalition for Better Broadcasting debate on public broadcasting happens tonight at 6.30pm in Auckland at the Pioneer Women’s Hall, High Street, Auckland City.  In the light of Dirty Politics and the manipulation of the media, public broadcasting is more important for...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Winners & Losers in Collins sacking plus what’s the latest on Slater...
      Make no mistake, there was no way this was a resignation, it’s a face saving way out for Collins, she was sacked.  My understanding is that National internal polls are haemorrhaging and that the powers that be within National...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Third party propaganda attacks incoming Labour-led government
    . . Further to a report by Daily Blogger, Chris Trotter, on receiving information regarding planned attack-billboards, the following billboard is highly visible to traffic on the southbound lane of the Wellington motorway, just prior to the Murphy St turn-off....
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Labour wins the Internet
    I’m sure I’m not the only one who tried to vote online for the leaders debate and couldn’t because the website was down. The next option was the txt vote, 75c a pop of course. So I’m not surprised that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – Rotherham and the need to challenge willful bl...
    I haven’t been following the events in Rotterham too closely.  I’ve read about the basic issues and the culture of silence that stopped action been taken even after complaints were made.  That culture of silence is incredibly familiar, and described...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Review: Hairspray
      Oh Hairspray! What fun! Somehow I managed to miss the movie when it came out, I had no idea really what it was about though I felt it had a vague relation to High School Musical. In retrospect, that...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • Mounting global pressure against Timor-Leste’s ‘death sentence’ media...
    East Timor’s José Belo … courageous fight against ‘unconstitutional’ media law.Image: © Ted McDonnell 2014 CAFÉ PACIFIC and the Pacific Media Centre Online posted challenges to the controversial ‘press law’ nine months ago when it emerged how dangerous this draft...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Spies, Lies and When Campaigns Are Fried
    Like most of the rest of the nation’s political classes, I was eagerly affixed to TV One from 12:30 on Saturday afternoon to witness the downfall of Judith Collins.Whenever we witness the crumbling of a titan of the political landscape...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • BREAKING: Whaleoil crushes Crusher
    Judith ends up shooting herself A new email has been released suggesting that Collins was attempting to undermine the head of Serious Fraud Office with the help of far right hate speech merchant Cameron Slater. Unbelievable!   She has been forced...
    The Daily Blog | 30-08
  • BREAKING: Rumours Judith Collins gone at lunchtime
    Brook Sabin first of the mark with rumours Judith Collins is about to resign – PM announcing a statement at 12.30pm… …Paddy follows… …Vance confirms..   …if Collins is gone by lunchtime, it will be because the PM understands the...
    The Daily Blog | 29-08
  • More good Questions for Mr. Cunliffe
    Exempting the family home from Capital Gains taxes is harder than it sounds. What if you charge one of the children board? What if it is one of the children’s friends? A boarder? Many South Auckland families share a house....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Why are the Anglican Bishops silent in defending life?
    The Anglican Archbishops in Aotearoa New Zealand have identified four key challenges facing the country in the run-up to the General Election onSeptember 20. These issues are: • Child poverty • Income inequality • Lack of affordable and accessible...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Encouraging the phenomenal growth in the Māori economy
    As the only independent Māori voice in Parliament, the Māori Party’s economic development policy is unashamedly focused on growing the Māori economy....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Bottom line demands by minor parties destabilising
    "Bottom line demands by minor parties are destabilising and undemocratic" said Dr Jamie Whyte. "Colin Craig says referenda being binding is a bottom line and now Winston Peters says a Royal Commission is a bottom line. Polls say the vast...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Victoria students lead youth engagement publication
    A group of Victoria University students are trying to reverse the trend of political disengagement by giving young people a voice....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • NZEI Te Riu Roa welcomes Green Party commitment to fairness
    NZEI Te Riu Roa has welcomed the Green Party's commitment to making work fairer and more equitable, saying it would also result in tangible benefits for children and their learning....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”, said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. “GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National
    MANA Movement candidate, John Minto 3 Wednesday September 2014 “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira. Now we have Slater writing...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Craig And Mcvicar Have Some Explaining to Do
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Garth McVicar and the Conservative Party to explain how much the Party’s ‘tough on crime’ election slogan will cost. On Monday the Party was added to the Taxpayers’ Union Bribe-O-Meter , but the Conservative...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Political parties to be questioned on needs of children
    Political party representatives will be asked to outline their policies in three key areas relating to the needs of children at a public forum being hosted this Friday by the University of Otago, Wellington (UOW). The event has been co-organised...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Voting Period for 2014 General Election Begins Today
    The first votes for the 2014 general election will be cast today, Wednesday 3 September, as advance voting begins ahead of election day on Saturday 20 September. “Election day is September 20, but if you want, you can vote from...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Independent Epsom Candidates ‘One Strike’ Crime Policy
    Best wishes to all of those who live in Epsom, Mount Eden, New Market, Remuera and of course the rest of New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Large majorities of NZ First voters would prefer Labour deal
    67% of those who voted for New Zealand First at the 2011 general election would prefer Labour to lead a coalition government if one is needed after September 20’s general election....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Jointly owned urban development agency for Christchurch
    “Given the strategic importance of the Canterbury rebuild, it is logical that the transition from emergency governance arrangements is overseen by the Prime Minister’s office, but to maintain momentum in the city centre an expert development agency...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Collins inquiry at best a Band-Aid, a permanent fix needed
    Collins inquiry at best a Band-Aid, a permanent fix is needed The Public Service Association (PSA) says the inquiry into Judith Collins’ behaviour must be accompanied by a process to restore the lost trust between Ministers and public servants if...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Association welcomes new Chief Executive
    “The New Zealand Police Association is pleased to announce the appointment of Heather Verry to Chief Executive. Heather picks up the mantle from Chris Pentecost, who recently retired from this position,” Police Association President Greg O’Connor said...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Young Voters Want Politicians to Grow Up
    Young voters want answers to the questions that directly affect them – but it seems as much as anything, they want politicians to grow up....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Climate Voter election debate to get big audience
    Auckland, 2 September 2014 - Tickets to tomorrow night’s first-ever Climate Voter election debate have sold out but an online audience will also get to see the event live....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Edge show disregard for consent
    The Edge has shown complete disregard for consent, for women’s bodies and in doing so has contributed to the wider issue of rape culture in New Zealand says specialist sexual violence prevention organisation, Sexual Abuse Prevention Network. Yesterday,...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • The Rock is Fuelling New Zealand’s Roastbuster Rape Culture
    The Rock are still displaying without-consent images of Jennifer Lawrence and other celebrities online. They are making fun of this without-consent action, saying that she was "asking for it", etc. They appear to be supporting this kind of...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • HRLA Condemns Murder of Filipino Human Rights lawyer
    Attorney Rodolfo R. Felicio, a member of the National Union of Peoples Lawyers , was gunned down while working on a land dispute in Rizal, east of Manila. Two caretakers of the disputed land were also injured in the attack....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • SFO lays charges for procurement fraud
    Two individuals have been charged in the Auckland District Court today with Crimes Act charges laid by the Serious Fraud Office for alleged fraud against Mighty River Power Limited relating to procurement for the Company’s Southdown power station....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Commitment to lifting wages good for New Zealand
    The Service and Food Workers Union has applauded the Green Party workers’ policy announced today....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Sykes: There’s Only One Poll That Counts
    “One of the oldest sayings in politics is that there is only one poll that counts – the one on Election Day – and that’s the one that I am focusing on” remarked the MANA Movement candidate for Waiariki, Annette...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Winston Peters Shown up by the Civilian Party
    Even the satirical 'Civilian Party' has now offered the Taxpayers’ Union more credible figures for the ' Bribe-O-Meter ' than Winston Peters’ New Zealand First. The Taxpayers’ Union Bribe-O-Meter now includes, National, Labour, the Greens,...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Further criminal investigation into CTV Building collapse
    Police has today confirmed it will be advancing the criminal investigation into the collapse of the CTV building in February 2011....
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Greens policy to restore link between effort and reward
    The Green Party’s new workers policy articulates an alternative to wage repression and job insecurity based on restoring the link between effort and reward, according to FIRST Union. The core tenets of the policy include implementing an $18 minimum...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Greens workers policy supported by union movement
    The CTU is supporting the Green Party’s policy launched today focused on improving life for working New Zealanders. “This policy shows the Greens commitment to collective bargaining as the best and fairest way to improve workers terms and conditions. It...
    Scoop politics | 02-09
  • Research Scholarships for Cannabis Treatments
    Medical cannabis research will be boosted by $140 million if the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party is elected on September 20. Pediatric epilepsy treatment will be one of the main priorities for the research scholarships....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Ngai Te Rangi Change to Tribal Elections
    Ngai Te Rangi has begun a postal vote of beneficiaries to change the way representatives are elected to the two Ngai Te Rangi tribal organisations....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Greens’ commitment to pay equity welcomed by workers
    The Public Service Association (PSA) says the 58,000 workers they represent will benefit from the announcement by the Green Party of a commitment to pay equity and to a living wage for core public servants and contractors....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Real People Powering Real Policy
    New Zealanders from all walks of life have helped the Internet Party create a full platform of strong, progressive and realistic policies that will create a better future for everyone, says leader Laila Harré....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • University of Canterbury to help with forestry safety
    The University of Canterbury is to launch a new research project to make sure New Zealand’s new forestry roads are safe and are established with minimal environmental impact....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Time to get serious about ending homelessness!
    New Zealand needs a comprehensive set of policies that address the housing and support needs of homeless people as well as significantly increasing the supply of affordable, good quality houses and flats....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Hundreds to join domestic, sexual violence march
    Several social service providers from across New Zealand have come together to call for an end to the epidemic level of domestic and sexual violence in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Students helped with debt repayments
    New Zealand students now living in Australia are being reminded not to ignore their student loan debt as Inland Revenue expands its latest tool to help with repayments....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Launch of GenderNeutral.co.nz website
    GenderNeutral.co.nz are excited to announce the launch of their new website, GenderNeutral.co.nz ....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Factory farming debaters to look chicken in the eye
    MPs participating in a panel discussion about factory farming will come face-to-face with a real live hen, rescued from the claws of the intensive farming industry. Hettie the Hen will demonstrate to the MPs what little space is afforded to...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Leadership stands strong behind Internet MANA relationship
    “There is now, and always will be, a range of views about many issues within our movement and members are free to express them, but Georgina’s views on Kim Dotcom are not shared by the MANA Movement leadership or the...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Personal Statement by Matthew Hooton
    Personal Statement by Matthew Hooton 1 September 2014 For Immediate Release “This morning I made comments on Radio New Zealand’s Nine to Noon programme about an attempt by staff in the Prime Minister’s Office to interfere in the appointment...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Worm turns down for John Key
    John Key struggled to coax The Worm above the line in Thursday’s Leaders Debate, according to Roy Morgan’s Reactor, the original Worm. John Key struggled to coax The Worm above the line in Thursday’s Leaders Debate, according to Roy Morgan’s...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Edge Posts Naked Photos Without Consent
    The Edge website, owned by Media Works have published fully naked photographs of Jennifer Lawrence without her consent....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Statement from the Governor-General on Ashburton Shootings
    The Governor-General, Lt Gen The Rt Hon Sir Jerry Mateparae, has expressed his deep shock following the shooting of three people in Ashburton today....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Update on IGIS inquiry into release of NZSIS information
    In recognition of the public interest, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, Cheryl Gwyn, took the unusual step of providing an update during the course of an inquiry and confirmed today that she would be summoning a number of individuals...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • An Open Government Plan developed in secrecy
    The State Services Commission sent NZ’s Open Government Action Plan to the international Open Government Partnership (OGP) Secretariat on 31 July. The countries involved in the OGP since its inception - from the UK and US to Indonesia and Brazil...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • KiwiRail; another year older and deeper in debt
    That is a lot of money and there are lessons that need to be learnt before we pour in another $1 billion....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Fonterra China Deal Demands Safe Supply Chain
    The future success of Fonterra’s deal to sell infant formula in China [1] requires all milk it uses be safe and for Fonterra to secure its supply chain from contamination by GE DNA and pesticide residues. There is now significant...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • HRC praises Auckland mum for speaking out
    Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy has praised an Auckland mother of four who went public after humiliating treatment by staff at The Warehouse....
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • Southern DHB refers disputed issue to Serious Fraud Office
    Following advice from forensic investigation firm Beattie Varley Limited, Southern District Health Board has referred the expenditure at the centre of its long running dispute with South Link Health to the Serious Fraud Office. The parties have been...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
  • The Letter 1 September 2014
    Last night’s TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll puts the left and right 60 MPs each. United and the Maori Party say they will go with the side that gets to 61 MPs. ACT just needs just 1.3% or 28 thousand Party...
    Scoop politics | 01-09
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