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NRT: Numbers out of his arse

Written By: - Date published: 1:25 pm, August 22nd, 2012 - 31 comments
Categories: john key, Privatisation - Tags: , , ,

I/S at No Right Turn had several good posts up yesterday, here’s one of them:


Numbers out of his arse

Remember when the opposition challenged the government on its plans to bribe the rich with taxpayers’ money via an asset sales “bonus scheme”? And remember when John Key slapped then down by saying:

If the entire float earned $5 billion and 20 per cent of investors were ‘mum and dads’ the total cost would be $60m based on an Australian model, he said.“$60m for the entire programme. So it’s $60m, not a billion, three, or whatever ridiculous numbers are in the paper this morning all those numbers are wrong.”

(Emphasis added)It turns out that he was pulling those numbers out of his arse. An OIA request through FYI, the public OIA site, has revealed that the Prime Minister “was not provided with any specific advice” on the costs of his bonus scheme (it also claims that he didn’t say what he’s on the record as saying – the sort of transparent nonsense you get when you leave spindoctors to write your responses). So, faced with media questions, he made numbers up to defend his case.

And we’re supposed to take National seriously as economic managers? Sorry, but I’d prefer someone honest, who bothered to ask for advice before making a decision.

31 comments on “NRT: Numbers out of his arse”

  1. Tracey 1

    so, perhaps the taunt across the house now from Opposition should be

    “show us the funny money”

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      😆

      • Akldnut 1.1.1

        There should be a whole session where they opposition ask only questions where dodgey figures have been used and the whole opposition scream out “Show us the Money” with each question.

        Would be hilarious.

  2. Adrian 2

    There was a fascinating discussion with an ex-CIA interrogator on NatRad yesterday about spotting lies. He has a book Spy the Lie I think. Anyway his interpretation was that sociopaths were compulsive liars and vice-versa, they cant help just making shit up, but when found out and corrected and questioned their behaviour is the give away, loss of eye contact, lip licking and blaming others. Remind you of anyone ?

    • mike 2.1

      This is basically correct. They are totally confident in their own ability to talk their way out of anything. They are indeed very good at thinking in their feet when questioned, and will not hesitate to simply make shit up (with half-truths and unverifiable statements) when necessary. This confidence makes them better liars, and coupled with a business suit and a position of authority it is a very powerful tool.

      However they can get lazy, being so confident in their own BSing ability, and come up with some very weak lines. Also they are impulsive and compulsive in their lying, they just can’t help themselves.
      They believe they are superior and others are stupid, they are too smart to get caught. This can be a strength and a weakness.

      When called out some will actually maintain a fierce eye-contact, but blaming others, questioning credentials, “That source isn’t reliable,” “How dare you / The insinuation is offensive”, attack the interviewer, are standard.

      • mike 2.1.1

        A true psychopath will argue that black is white if they have to, and make you fell stupid for questioning it. In fact Robert Hare has found that they will lie even when they know that the person they are lying to to knows they are lying. A very interesting finding, implying that there is more than just lying as the rest of us understand it going on here. Hare concludes along the lines that at a deep level they actually believe that reality can be altered by saying so. Anyone who questions is an obstacle to their world, (which is why they often seem to react with genuine indignation), and must thus be removed from their world somehow.

  3. Tracey 3

    I must say Adrian I found his eyes darted much more than usual on TV3’s news last night.

  4. Chris 4

    He’s doing a lot more of sucking air through his teeth when he finishes a sentence.It’s so irritating.

  5. Wayne 5

    The Prime Ministers background is finance, in which he was very successful. He can sort these sort of numbers in a ballpark sense pretty easily, certainly better than anyone else in Parlaiment. He will certainly know this area much better than anyone in Treasury.

    Like most high level experts with decades of experience in any field, he will have a good sense of the realistic dimension of the issue. That is what experts can do; they can rely on their expertise and judgement without having to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

    So the OIA does not prove anything.

    • fnjckg 5.1

      wtf

      • Murray Olsen 5.1.1

        After giving Wayne’s post much thought, I find myself in full agreement with your profound evaluation of it.
        In my line of work some people consider me an expert, and I can usually do a quick evaluation of a given problem and have an opinion. Following on from forming this opinion, my response would be either:
        1. This could work, so it’s worth my while actually doing the calculations. 
        2. This is unlikely to work, but possible, so let’s check it out.
        3. This’ll never work because it violates the laws of nature (or something else).
        Key does not give the answers of an expert; he gives the answers of a conman or used car salesman.

    • framu 5.2

      That might work just fine in international finance wayne – but hes the prime minister

      he cant just go “werll youse are all wrong” based on a guess or assumption. As someone entrusted to run the country he ekshully needs to back things up with evidence – and the OIA proves he doesnt have any

      and when you add in the juvenille “show me the money” business, its even more imperitave for Key to back things up with facts. Its kinda like me saying that your wearing your pants all wrong while theres a soft summer breeze across my own butt cheeks

      all this “its a guess”, “back of an envelop” stuff isnt the way you run a country

    • Carol 5.3

      Key can also walk on water, turn water into wine, and rise from the dead. We don’t need evidence of this because he survived in the business world.

      PS: A finance trader is a glorified salesman, using figures as much to deceive as to inform.

    • Dv 5.4

      Would a financial advisor get away with is sort of rubbish?

    • mike e 5.5

      Wayne kerr Investment banker yeah right lokk up Merrill Lynch on the net and corruption and in three weeks when you have read all the low down dirty insider trading ponzi schemes etc that ML have been involved with tell me Shonkey hasn’t been involved in any of them.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.6

      Wow, you do have some delusional fantasies don’t you?

      BTW, did you notice the Global Financial Crisis going on ATM? You know, the one caused by people just like your hero John Key?

    • mike 5.7

      Let me help you out there Wayne.

      The Prime Ministers background is siphoning money from the middle class, in which he was very successful. He can pull bullshit numbers out of his ass pretty easily, certainly better than anyone else in Parliament, people conning people with shonkey numbers that sound vaguely plausible is home sweet home. He will certainly know this area much better than anyone in Treasury.

      Like most high level experts with decades of experience in any field, he will have a good sense of the realistic dimension of the issue, but he’s sure as shit not going to tell us about that. That is what con-men do; they rely on misinformation and half-truths without bothering to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

      So the OIA proves that John Key pulled hypothetical guestimates out of his ass with nothing to back them up, them used them in an argument to counter his opponents.

    • Dr Terry 5.8

      And exactly what kind of background in finance would you call that? Many such backgrounds include very devious dealings. Just because it happens to be a financial background (most describe it as “business”, in fact) does not infer that it is necessarily clean or ethical. That is cause for enquiry.

    • Colonial Viper 5.9

      The Prime Ministers background is finance, in which he was very successful.

      Investment banking and financial market speculation has NOTHING to do with understanding the real economy.

      That is what experts can do; they can rely on their expertise and judgement without having to cross check every aspect before they venture an opinion.

      Key could only do this in the fields of investment banking and financial market speculation.

      Do you want him to gamble with the fortunes of NZ?

  6. Blue 6

    I wasn’t aware that there was any other method for getting numbers in the National Government. They are either pulled out of John Key’s arse, or Bill English’s arse.

    It’s not like we have any journalists in this country. The Nats don’t need to go to any trouble to impress anyone.

    • lprent 6.1

      You forgot Nick Smith – he was pretty good about lying with numbers as well.

      How soon the the reshuffle do you think? They can’t keep a man with his talent for bullshit numbers out of a National government for long…

    • Herodotus 6.2

      Why then in question time can not Labour (The main opposition party) with the ability to ask more questions and follow up with supplementary questions hold the govt to these? Simple direct questions, then follow up the following day or two. Set the minister/PM up. With the experience/skill & wisdom? that Lab has it is not evident :-(
      Even with Peters with all his experience and delivery could not contain himself yesterday getting himself red carded in the 1st few minutes, and as a result lost his ability to ask a question.

  7. xtasy 7

    English is a clown now, stating that Solid Energy is not fit for selling, admitting the Maori Council and Waitangi Tribunal can stop the sale of yet another energy company, if not all. So the shambles are now becoming facts. Key and English are out of answers and sense, looking like the sad clowns in a circus that is not getting any crowds to laugh and cheer. It is over, dear sell out brigade, pack your bags, surrender and go to your quarters – in opposition soon!

  8. tracey 8

    ACC report due today so the PM decides this is the day to ignite the euthanasia debate… Coincidence? Divert attention from a cornerstone of nz to something highly emotionally charged…

  9. irascible 9

    As a money trader (high stakes gambler) being able to lie convincingly about possible returns on a bluff is the key skill needed to part fools from their money. This is the technique KeY uses to spin his way out of situations he has no real grasp of. The hocking off of the State Assets is a policy KeY has no convincing argument for except that his cronies will benefit.

    • bbfloyd 9.1

      He wouldn’t be able to spin his way out of a paper bag if our fourth estate was worth half a tin of goat shit….they are actually his real diplomatic protection squad….. shielding us from the truth of his duplicity, and his serious mental imbalances….

      he could fart the first four bars of beethovens ninth, follow through on the last bar, and be lauded as being “statesman like”, and his “statement” to have “substance”…

      With that level of protection, when is he EVER going to be exposed for what he is?

      • Blue 9.1.1

        I can actually imagine that, sadly.

        “The Prime Minister gave an impressive performance at his post-Cabinet press conference this afternoon, farting the first four bars of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony.

        Those in attendance were unable to work out what exact statement Mr Key was making, but say it sounded very impressive.

        “He got four whole bars in, totally note-perfect too,” said Tracy Watkins of the Dominion Post. “That’s why the voters love him!”

        Her sentiments were echoed by Mr Joe Bloggs of Kaitaia.

        “He’s a real Kiwi bloke, that’s why we all voted for him,” Mr Bloggs said. “Good on him, I say.”

        Greens co-leader Russel Norman was unimpressed with the Prime Minister contributing to New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions, and Winston Peters said the Prime Minister’s conduct was “disgraceful.”

        Sources within the Labour Party say that MPs are desperately scrambling to eat as many beans as they can in the hope of matching John Key’s performance.”

    • Tiresias 9.2

      A money trader at a place like Merrill Lynch has no need to lie to anyone. He is allocated a tranch of capital, given some insider information plus software that runs algorithms measuring risk and returns in real time, watches a screen and only has to press the proper buttons at more or less the right time to see a profit. Some traders, though, think that the huge advantages they gain from being on the House side of the gamble are down to their inborn brilliance and natural superiority, and so look to climb the ladder from the trading floor to the offices above by trying to get a better return than the safe 0.01% on the millions they trade. A very few succeed.

      Key never got off the trading floor, so he was at least bright enough to know his limitations.

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  • Prisoner voting disqualification and the Bill of Rights Act
    In 2010, National rammed the Electoral (Disqualification of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill through Parliament. Paul Quinn’s Member’s Bill existed because Paul Quinn thought anyone who’d been imprisoned was a serious offender, and serious offenders had ‘forfeited’ their right to vote.… ...
    GreensBy David Clendon MP
    2 days ago
  • Mainfreight ‘appalled’ by Government’s rail madness
    The Government has been given a serve by New Zealand-based international trucking and logistics firm Mainfreight which says it lacks a national transport strategy, and has treated rail badly, Labour's Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford says. The company has told shareholders it… ...
    2 days ago
  • National’s Health and Safety Reform Bill: less safety and fewer rights at...
    The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions is embarking on a campaign to fight the changes that weaken the Health and Safety Reform bill. As part of the campaign the CTU has organised vigils with the display of 291 crosses… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    3 days ago
  • All options need to be put on meat sector table
    Farmers must be given every assurance that all potential risks have been considered before Silver Fern Farms opens its door to foreign equity, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “The ongoing saga involving the meat sector and amalgamation has… ...
    3 days ago
  • Flag the referendum if 50% or more don’t vote
    Labour has moved to have the second flag referendum canned if the first attracts fewer than half the eligible number of voters, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “John Key has already wasted more than $8 million on his vanity project… ...
    3 days ago
  • 90,000 cars reclassified in botched ACC ratings
    New figures obtained by Labour show the ACC Minister’s botched motor vehicle levy system has resulted in 90,000 vehicles having to be reclassified so far – at a cost of $6 million, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “Nikki Kaye’s… ...
    3 days ago
  • Brutal health cuts confirmed, crucial services suffer
    Chronic under-funding by National has seen the health budget slashed by $1.7 billion in just five years, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. A report by Infometrics, commissioned by Labour, shows health funding has been cut in four of the… ...
    3 days ago
  • Meth ring under Serco’s nose
    The news that two Serco inmates have been arrested for helping to run a methamphetamine ring from prison should be the final straw and see their contract cancelled, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “National has stood by Serco despite… ...
    4 days ago
  • Ministers failing women and their own targets
    New figures showing just five Ministers have met the Government’s own reduced targets for appointing women to state sector boards is evidence National is failing Kiwi women, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “The Ministry for Women’s 2015 Gender… ...
    4 days ago
  • Charges up for some as funding up for grabs
    A proposal being considered by the Government would see some people having to pay more for health care and district health boards forced to fight amongst themselves to fund regional health services, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says “Information leaked… ...
    4 days ago
  • Stop experimenting on kids
    The trouble with the Charter school model is that it is a publicly funded experiment on children. The National Government has consistently put its desire to open charter schools ahead of the safety of the children in them, ignoring repeated… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    5 days ago
  • Bank puts the squeeze on mid Canterbury farmers
    News that an unnamed bank in Ashburton has put a receiver on notice over financially vulnerable farmers will send a chill through rural New Zealand, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The Government needs to work with  New Zealand’s banks… ...
    5 days ago
  • Key is trading away New Zealand land and homes
    John Key yesterday admitted what National dishonestly refused to confirm in Parliament last week – he is trading away New Zealand’s right to control who buys our homes and land, says Opposition leader Andrew Little. “The Prime Minister must now… ...
    5 days ago
  • Razor gang takes scalpel to health
    Plans by the Government to take a scalpel to democratically elected health boards are deceitful and underhand, coming just months after an election during which they were never signalled, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says “Leaked documents reveals a radical… ...
    5 days ago
  • Spin lines show a department in chaos
    Corrections Spin Doctors sending their place holder lines to journalists instead of responding to serious allegations shows the scale of chaos at the department over the Serco scandal, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “As more and more serious allegations… ...
    7 days ago
  • Court ruling shows law should never have been passed
    A High Court ruling that a law banning prisoners from voting is inconsistent with a properly functioning democracy should be a wake-up call for the Government, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. In an unprecedented ruling Justice Paul Heath has… ...
    1 week ago
  • Judicial Review Gamble Pays Off for Problem Gambling Foundation
    Congratulations are due to the Problem Gambling Foundation (PGFNZ) who have won their legal case around how the Ministry of Health decided to award their contracts for problem gambling services to another service provider. Congratulations are due not just for… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Environmental Protection Agency appoints GE advocate as new CEO
    This week, the Environmental Protection Authority Amendment Bill passed its first reading in Parliament. The Bill puts protection of the environment into the core purpose of the Environmental Protection Authority. This month, Dr Allan Freeth, the former Chief Executive of… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    1 week ago
  • Charanpreet Dhaliwal death demands genuine health and safety reform
    The killing of a security guard on his first night on the job is exactly the kind of incident that National’s watered-down health and safety bill won’t prevent, says Te Atatu MP Phil Twyford. The coronial inquest into 22-year-old Charanpreet… ...
    1 week ago
  • Arbitrary sanctions hit children hardest
    Increasing numbers of single parents are being penalised under a regime that is overly focussed on sanctions rather than getting more people into work, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni says. “Figures, obtained through Parliamentary questions show 3000 more sanctions,… ...
    1 week ago
  • Hekia just won’t face the facts
    Hekia Parata’s decision to keep troubled Whangaruru Charter school open despite being presented with a catalogue of failure defies belief, goes against official advice and breaks a Government promise to close these schools if they were failing, says Labour’s Education… ...
    1 week ago
  • No more silent witnesses
    Yesterday I attended the launch of a new initiative developed by and for Asian, Middle eastern and African youth to support young people to name and get support if there is domestic violence at home. The impact on children of… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    1 week ago
  • Single Use Plastic Bags campaign – Some wins and some green-washing
    As we near the end of Plastic Free July I’m nearing the conclusion of my Say No To Plastic Bag tour when I will have completed all 30 of my public meetings. The campaign was designed to work with community… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Single Use Plastic Bags campaign – Some wins and some green-washing
    As we near the end of Plastic Free July I’m nearing the conclusion of my Say No To Plastic Bag tour when I will have completed all 30 of my public meetings. The campaign was designed to work with community… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Minister must take responsibility for problem gambling debacle
    The Government’s handling of the Problem Gambling Foundation’s axing in a cost-cutting exercise has been ham-fisted and harmful to some of the most vulnerable people in society, Associate Health Labour spokesperson David Clark says.“Today’s court ruling overturning the axing of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour will not support TPP if it undermines NZ sovereignty
    The Labour Party will not support the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement unless key protections for New Zealanders are met, Opposition leader Andrew Little says.“Labour supports free trade. However, we will not support a TPP agreement that undermines New Zealand’s sovereignty. ...
    1 week ago
  • Coleman can’t ignore latest warnings
    Resident doctors have advised that a severe staffing shortage at North Shore Hospital is putting patients’ lives at risk, Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King says. “They say a mismatch between staffing levels and patient workloads at North Shore has… ...
    1 week ago
  • ACC must remove barriers to appeals
    The Government must prioritise removing barriers to justice for ACC claimants following a damning report by Acclaim Otago, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says. “ACC Minister Nikki Kaye must urgently scrap her flawed plan to remove claimant’s right to redress… ...
    1 week ago
  • Six months’ paid parental leave back on the agenda
    Six months’ paid parental leave is back on the agenda and a step closer to reality for Kiwi parents after Labour’s new Member’s Bill was pulled from today’s ballot, the Bill’s sponsor and Labour MP Sue Moroney says. “My Bill… ...
    1 week ago
  • Sole parents at risk of having no income
    New requirements for sole parents to undertake a reapplication process after a year is likely to mean a large number will face benefit cancellations, but not because they have obtained work, Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni says. “Increasing numbers… ...
    1 week ago
  • Juking the Welfare Stats Again
    Last week the government’s major initiative to combat child poverty (a paltry $25 increase) was exposed for what it is, a lie. The Government, through the Budget this year, claims to be engaging in the child poverty debate, but instead,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    1 week ago
  • OCR rate cut a result of flagging economy
    The Reserve Bank's decision to cut the Official Cash Rate to 3 per cent shows there is no encore for the so-called 'rock star' economy, says Labour's Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson.   "Today's interest rate cut comes off the back… ...
    1 week ago
  • Reboot to an innovation economy, an Internet economy and a clean economy
    In my short 33 years on this planet we’ve seen phenomenal technological, economic and social change, and it’s realistic to expect the next 33 will see even more, even faster change. You can see it in the non-descript warehouse near… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes MP
    1 week ago
  • Bill that puts the environment into the EPA passes first hurdle
    A Bill that puts the environment squarely into legislation governing the Environmental Protection Authority passed its first reading today, says Meka Whaitiri.  “I introduced this member’s bill as the current law doesn’t actually make protecting the environment a goal of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key’s KiwiSaver deception exposed
    KiwiSaver statistics released today expose John Key's claim that the cutting of the kickstart payment "will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver” to be duplicitous, says Labour Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson.  “Official… ...
    1 week ago
  • Minimum Wage Amendment Bill to protect contractors
    All New Zealanders should be treated fairly at work. Currently, the law allows non-employment relationships to be used to get around the minimum wage. This is unfair, says Labour MP David Parker. “The Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill, a… ...
    1 week ago
  • Bill raises bar to protect Kiwi farmland
    The Government’s rubber-stamping of every one of the nearly 400 applications from overseas investors to buy New Zealand farm land over the last three years proves tougher laws are needed, Labour MP Phil Goff says. “In the last term of… ...
    1 week ago
  • Costly flag referendum should be dumped
    John Key must ditch the flag referendum before any more taxpayer money is wasted, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “Millions of dollars could be saved if the Prime Minister called a halt to this hugely expensive, and highly unpopular, vanity… ...
    1 week ago
  • Nats letting Serco off scot free
    Government members have prevented Parliament’s Law and Order select committee from getting answers out of a senior Serco director about the fight clubs being run at Mt Eden prisons, says Labour’s Corrections Spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “At today’s Law and Order… ...
    1 week ago
  • Charter school experiment turns into shambles
    The National Government’s charter school experiment has descended into chaos and it’s time for Hekia Parata to stop trying to cover up the full extent of the problems, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The Education Minister must release all… ...
    1 week ago

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