Written By: - Date published: 10:57 am, May 20th, 2008 - 57 comments
Categories: workers' rights -
Tags: minimum wage, pay, tax
See that line that says minimum wage? Nearly half of kiwis earn less than that.
Seven months ago, that was me. I was working removing asbestos contaminated glue from the floor of an office building along with half a dozen other guys. Now, asbestos is pretty dangerous stuff, inhaling a single thread of it can give you asbestosis, a deadly respiratory disease. So, we had some crappy old masks and some cheap overalls to wear. The areas we worked in were sealed from the outside world and had big fans in them to keep them at low air pressure, so if a leak developed air would flow in and no asbestos threads could get out. The outside temperature was 25 degrees. Inside it was 40 degrees plus and there was no oxygen, as we scraped potentially deadly forty year old glue off the floor. The sweat would pool in your mask but I was afraid to pull it back.
We were effectively day labourers, employed by a labour hire company that contracted our labour (and took $8 an hour as commission from the company); we would be out of a job on the day that the boss decided there was no more work for us (of course, this actually made us work slower because we didn’t want to work ourselves out of a job).
The men I had been working with had been doing jobs like this for years, decades. ‘At least now’, they told me, “we are getting some decent pay” – $11.25 an hour (as was the minimum wage at the time), just eight years before they would have been getting $7.50 an hour and no Working for Families to help them out.
See that $60,000 bracket? Less than 14% of kiwis have incomes higher than that. I’m now one of them. And do I work harder for this great increase in reward? Well, I have a chair, I have a computer, there’s coffee, and air conditioning, I don’t have the risk of contracting asbestosis, damaging my back, or finding my job has simply disappeared, and I get to sit in meetings for hours just letting the conversation wash over me like fresh air, remembering being hardly able to breath in that mask.
So, no, I don’t think this job is harder, and get I paid three times more. I suspect that for most of the people reading this, your working life is more akin to my nice well-paid office job, than that job sweating in a toxin-laden room. It’s very easy in our lives to forget how much better we have it than most.
Every morning, when I get up, I know that I am fortunate. I know that most kiwis have it tougher than I do, I know that my income is good, I know that I am not treated as a disposable automaton by my employer. So, no, I don’t begrudge a government that wants to take a small part of my income to help out those who, because of the nature of our economic system, have it tougher than me and help look after their families.
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Ka pai. nice story. Those kind of stats put a lot of pressure on Thursday’s budget to be about something more than vote buying I reckon.
Eight years of a Labour government and “See that line that says minimum wage? Nearly half of kiwis earn less than that.”. That tends to indicate that income transfer is not working as it hasn’t improved overall productivity and therefore income.
“I get to sit in meetings for hours just letting the conversation wash over me like fresh air”, I would love to know which employer can afford to let you do this. The public service perhaps ?
I hear that brother. In the 90′s I worked for $8 and hour as a temp gutting fish on the nightshift, grinding lead paint off a brick wall, as a cleaner as a factory hand and moving furniture amongst a whole lot of other shitty jobs. Each time I didn’t know if I had a job the next day or not and each time I was surrounded by people in the same position. I was lucky I didn’t have a family to feed. Others were not. Let me tell you, when you get a whole lot of people who are working their rings out only to fall further and further into poverty and who don’t know where their next paycheck coming from it’s not pretty.
In one factory I worked in every single worker was a temp. If anyone spoke up about the shit conditions (exposed scorchingly hot surfaces, dangerous chemicals, etc) they were told not to come back. Unemployment was huge and benefits were so low you would virtually work for food. On that particular job workers would regularly end up beating the shit out of each other over trivial things. It was like being in a room with fifty beaten dogs for 12 hours a day. I came off that job with burns all the way up one arm from one of the kilns and a lucky escape from an assault charge. One of my coworkers killed himself.
Now I’m in the top tax-bracket. I’m no more qualified than I was then – the job market and our society is just that much better. I do not begrudge one cent of the tax I pay.
Cheers, Dan and stevedore.
Easy to see the fella that’s always had it sweet eh? So shocked that half of people are on $27K and less, and blames Labour, the Government that’s done more for wages than any government in 30 years.
I tell you what Byran, my workmates didn’t blame Labour, they blamed the cheap-arse bosses, they knew it was thanks to Labour their wages had gone up at all.
.. I had a few paragraphs for this kind of silly bugger who doesn’t get it but the post was already so long, so here they are now:
“People are often surprised when they see what the distribution of income actually looks like. Those commentators who have been talking of the middle-class earning the range of $60,000 might be especially interested to see that the real middle class (usually defined as having an income within 30-40% either side of the median) earns between $27,000 and $53,000.
These are people who have benefited from minimum wage rises, a full-employment policy, Working for Families, and a host of other initiatives. Incomes are up 15% above inflaiton in just eight years under Laobur, that’s after they stagnated and fell for most people in the 1990s. It is shocking for many to realise how low most people’s incomes are (bearing in mind these figures include retirees, beneficiaries, part timers, and those not in the workforce), but is more shocking how low they were before we had a government that worked for them.”
Although to be fair, that original graph is distorted by the 439,683 recipients of NZ super in the 10-20,000 column
If you are making a point about wages and employment(your post is entitled workers rights), would it not be best to use a table from the census that only includes those in full or part time work, (it is table 12 in the income quickstats publication)
No, because I’m talking about the distribution of income across society, not just one section of it.
If you only look at the 2.2 million people who are employed you forget the one million who aren’t. they don’t just disappear, they have to buy food, clothing, housing etc too, they have an income to live too… and it’s just as much a policy choice (even more so) what level of income those people have to live on – super levels directly affect nearly 500,000 people, working age benefits another 240,000.
A change to the minimum wage affects 300,000, plus mayn more on near-minimum wages who get bumped up too.
My personal story relates the fact that a great number of people on those low incomes are working, working damn hard.
And look at the median employed income, it’s still $38K, not exactly the 50-70K that many seem to think is middle class now.
“..they knew it was thanks to Labour their wages had gone up at all.”
Are you talking about the same people who are about to throw labour out of power? How inconsiderate and ungrateful!
Advancement in wages have hardly kept up with consumer index price and cost of living. Taking into account the past years of economic bonanza (booming commodity prices, trade liberalisation, tariff reductions, etc.), you have to conclude that this Labour government has not delivered.
[Man, so much wrong in so few words: Labour has more support than National among people on low incomes, read the Fairfax poll. People on low incomes have seen their incomes increase sharply under Labour thanks to the minimum wage, record low unemployment, Working for Families, and a greatly increased social wage (eg doctor visit subsidies, 20Free). Wages are up 15% above inflation on average. search wages in our archives. Start with this graph. SP]
erikter – I think you’d rightly conclude that they’ve delivered, but there’s still more to do. “About to throw…”? So you’re picking an election when?
Wages have increased beyond inflation fool. In fact they’ve increased so much the National Party seems to think people need some of their work rights removed just to slow things down a bit. Check your facts before you make a comment muppet.
“See that $60,000 bracket? Less than 14% of kiwis have incomes higher than that.”
But Mickey C said only 5% of workers would ever be taxed in that bracket?
Gee it sounds like you have a cushy number with the Union SP. I bet my employee’s paying $5 or $6 bucks a week to you are pleased.
[no you're wrong there son. Union officials work real hard and I'm not one of them.SP]
Steve: you haven’t really answered either of my questions. Looking at the recent political polls your “ex-workmates” appear to be blaming Labour now
I wonder also how your Labour friendly “ex-workmates” would feel if they knew how much faster incomes are rising in the unproductive public service than in the productive private sector: chart labour cost public sector premium
[I take your use of " " to mean you're implying I'm not telling the truth. Do it again and you won't be welcome here, in any of your pseudonyms. And if you had looked at recent polls, or, gee, just actually knew anyone on a lower income, you would know they haven't turned their backs on Labour. SP]
[lprent: how about learning to link properly - fixed the link so it doesn't spread all over the screen]
“…only 5% of workers would ever be taxed in that bracket?”
Cite? I only ask ’cause it sounds like a lie.
The way I remember it he was saying that the top rate would only effect the top 5 percent when passed.
We’ve never had inflation adjustments to the brackets, IIRC, so while it is an interesting and legitimate point, the idea that it is a uniquely cullenesque failing is dishonest.
I’m glad you got a mask Steve. I didn’t when my crew spent a day clearing sacks of white asbestos out of an old building scheduled for demolition. The health risks of asbestos were well known, but the foreman just told us to shut up and get on with it. Disposable workers. I’m still angry about it.
Then you also include people like me when I was a student in a flatting situation. I had several part time and holiday jobs; some of them quite crappy (spraying gorse comes to mind, although it paid better than the bar jobs). I also had a job that left me with a cough that lingered for years.
I certainly wasn’t wealthy – but I feel I had more freedom than, say, a family of 5 with a single $60k earner and a mortgage… I was probably happier and under less financial stress than them.
Knowing that many different types of earners are bundled into the graph above reduces its impact I think. Perhaps household income would be a better choice?
Hey Bryan – I like having a functioning public sector, more police and more nurses. Why don’t you just fu*k off to Somalia if you want small government? I’ll happily put the hat around for your one-way ticket.
[now, now, let's be civil. Bryan might think that doctors and police and roading engineers are 'unproductive' but that's not a reason to play the fool too. SP]
Steve: I wasn’t implying you were lying & I have done my share of poorly paid, menial jobs including packing caustic soda & pool chlorine for $8.00/hr.
I don’t think that “doctors and police and roading engineers are ‘unproductive’ “, I do think that a lot of the 43,000 employed to generate red tape and write reports and attend meetings in the core public service would be doing this country a favor if they joined the migration flood to Australia.
migration surge to australia accelerates
[lprent: and again. It isn't hard to put in a correct anchor, damnit]
Linkwhore.
[lprent: you're more boorish than usual today. If fact you're getting quite tiresome - personal problems?]
[lprent: ok - i apologize after fixing some long links. Those things look as messy as hell in firefox]
hooton wont get a bonus for not engineering a snap election before the due date…he keeps saying if JOhn Keys were in now…what does he mean by that?
” Start with this graph. SP”
Is that the one where you cocked up the Maths?
Yeah, I think it is…
[Tane: The figures in that graph originated from Treasury and have not been refuted. I'm happy to provide you with data as I did for David Farrar.]
When you talk about the public sector you are mostly talking about doctors and teachers and police. There are 250,000+ employees in the public sector. Only 36,000 of them are in the core public sector (which includes Courts, prison guards, customs officials, social workers etc) and, yes, people whose job it is to develop policy and legislation. Because policy and legislation don’t magically happen but we do need them, we need to work out how best to allocate our limited public revenues for the public good, we need to update and revise our laws as the world changes.
Come join the real world and stop making silly claims like the public service doesn’t do anything.
(and the migration figures are perfectly consistent with the more cycle – numbers, and especially numbers per capita have been higher at the other two peaks in the cycle over the last 20 years)
The $11,000 difference between median income and median employed income is an indictment of the social welfare policies pushed for both Labour and National governments.
Besides the people in real need, the elderly and the disabled, New Zealand has too many bludgers living off the back of the productive sector of the population.
Reform the welfare system and you see the overall income numbers going up. There is a price to pay though. No pain, no gain.
Which one of the main political parties will have the guts to do it? None.
Robinsod: Thanks for that suggestion, “Linkwhore” is a great pseudonym, I think I’ll get it put on a T-shirt though I prefer to comment under my real name:-)
[lprent: I wouldn't mind if you knew how to put them in correctly. All you have to do is this:-
<a href='http://my-bloody-long-link'>The text I want to display</a>
It isn't hard]
Low income earners love Labour because they keep dishing out freebies. That’s all there is to it.
living off the back of the productive sector of the population.
I have a friend who does marketing for British American Tobacco. He’s top tax bracket and his job is to find ways around the legislation and continue to sell death. I have another friend who is staying at home to raise two beautiful clever kids who will one day contribute to society and gets working for families and another friend who works for DIA monitoring internet crime.
I get the feeling (and correct me if I’m wrong) you would say my first friend is productive and my others are not. Really makes me wonder what kind of a world you want to see.
Those people are essential to the running of the country. If you got rid of them less of the work thats needed to run the country would get done and our country would fall even further behind in the OECD rankings.
Oh, wait, isn’t that what National’s promising?
In my opinion, if you chose to have kids, that’s your problem. Don’t buy a house if you can’t afford to service it.
But what if you want to sell them for food?
[Tane: The figures in that graph originated from Treasury and have not been refuted. I'm happy to provide you with data as I did for David Farrar.]
That would be great if you could – better yet would be a link to the page you got them from
=)
Thanks
[Tane: I received them through the CTU, who were provided them by Mallard's office along with a bunch of journalists. I'll email you the data at the email address you've supplied.]
Eat them instead
Tastes like chicken… or so I hear…
DracoTB: “Those people are essential to the running of the country.” Yes but are they really?
The number of core public servants has increased by 16,000 since 2000 Bloody Long Link One and over the same period productivity growth has declined from 2% to 0% Bloody Long Link Two and tax burden has increased by 20 days Bloody Long Link Three . These core public service employees have been busily generating more compliance costs for those of us in the “real world”.
[lprent: better. I even finally wrote the section just for you. How to link. I really have to finish the code for the WYSIWG comment editor & intergrate it with the rest of the site]
There’s a glut on the market after the ‘quake and typhoon.
For that asset you’d be better to ‘accumulate/hold’ rather than ‘sell’ right now.
I wonder if Labour Party policies endorsing gambling and prostitution are helping the poorer sections of society? Or are they just broadening the tax base?
Robinsond, if your friend wants to raise a family and decides to stay home for that purpose that is HIS problem, not mine.
Do you expect society as a whole to have to pay for individuals’ decisions such this, regardless of the good intentions behind them?
Why should childless couples or other citizens paying taxes have to prop your friend up with money for his WFF?
It’s very easy to “sacrifice” yourself, as your friend is doing, knowing then Nanny State is behind you. Efficient is not.
[Tane: I won't tolerate veiled threats against the livelihoods of posters. There will not be another warning.]
“Why should childless couples or other citizens paying taxes have to prop your friend up with money for his WFF?”
Because those non-childless couples children – the nation’s future – will be supporting the childless couples in their old age.
What goes around comes around.