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Open mike 02/01/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 2nd, 2013 - 166 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

166 comments on “Open mike 02/01/2013”

  1. Morrissey 1

    Dumb New Zealand
    NewstalkZB, Wednesday January 2, 2013, 6:25 a.m.

    It’s quiz time on NewstalkZB….

    TIM DOWER: If you were suffering from consumption, would you (a) have eaten too much Christmas pudding, or (b) would it be something else?

    CALLER: [long pause] Consumption? [long, long pause] Ahhhhhhmmm, I’m gonna have to go with (a) eaten too much Christmas pudding.

    DOWER: No, but I’ll give you another try. The answer iiiiiiiiis?…..

    CALLER: The other one.

    DOWER: Yes. Well done! I’ll get your details so we can send you your prize; stay on the line, will you?

    INTERESTING FACT: One of NewstalkZB’s mottoes is “Tune Your Mind.”

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

      I always suspected….

    • belladonna 1.2

      Newstalk ZB have added Cameron Slater to their list of talkback hosts. Radio Live have sacked Keith Stewart, one of the few leftwing radio hosts. He had a very good following apparently so dont understand why they got rid of him. There are now very few lefties on the radio, seems to be a pattern here.

      • Marty 1.2.1

        I had the misfortune to tune in when Cameron Slater was on. He was doing the intro and said if anyone had any unwanted Christmas presents? Perhaps like kittens? He’s just a one man wrecking crew. I can understand why his style may appeal to his sycophants, but why on earth would NewstalkZB put him on the radio?

        • xtasy 1.2.1.1

          Marty:

          “I can understand why his style may appeal to his sycophants, but why on earth would NewstalkZB put him on the radio?”

          Maybe many of their listeners are “sycophants”?

        • Morrissey 1.2.1.2

          Are you trying to say NewstalkZB is too classy for Cameron Slater?

          Have you ever listened to Leighton “Ummmm, Ahhhhhhh, Errrrr, Ahhhhmmmm” Smith, Larry “Lackwit” Williams, Tony “Boot Boy” Veitch, Kerre Woodham, Bruce Russell or Gary Denver?

          Please tell us how Cameron Slater is in any way worse or more extreme than any of those hosts?

  2. KhandallaViper 2

    I’m looking forward to the Open Debate that will be at the centre on the Leadership process in February. The turn out in 2011 was great. The Town Halls in Auckland and Wellington will be needed to accommodate the crowds.

    It will be a great chance to convert supporters into Financial Members!

    • bad12 2.1

      Do you think that there is the numbers in caucus willing to trigger that ‘debate’ in February???…

      • KhandallaViper 2.1.1

        At the conference in November ’11 the majority of the membership’s delegates voted

        For: an open and robust debate that gives them an insight into the policy and leadership capabilities and styles of the contenders.

        Against: back-office deals and arm twisting to force another pyric 100% endorsement of a leader and a choking of membership power.

    • Jenny 2.2

      KTo achieve the Open Debate you are looking forward to, means a lot of work needs to be done before hand. You can bet that the ABC faction are not sitting on their hands. I imagine that they will be flat out over the holiday period lobbying Labour MPs, to vote against any Open Debate. (using the promise of promotion and the threat of demotion to get their way). KT to achieve what you seek, the membership need to lobby their local Labour MP even harder. You need to match the threat of demotion with the counter threat of withdrawal of branch electoral support if the wishes of the membership are ignored.

  3. muzza 3

    John Keys “rent boy” Cam Slater wants to fuck Bain [badly] using a corrupt District Court Judge.

    Slater’s exclusive revelation is that disgraced thieving lawyer and “retired” District Court Judge, Michael “what money” Guest (photo top) had made allegations against David Bain relating to Bain arguing at his first trial that he had not worn his mothers prescription glasses, but had later admitted to Guest and co counsel Jonelle Williams that he had in fact worn the glasses the Sunday evening before the killings occurred the following day.

    NZ received banana republic status some time back, but it seems these days the place is being taken to the cleaners, to what end!

    Again the LF team, provide a decent write up, this and the corrupted judiciary series which can be linked from the main page,

    • bad12 3.1

      Blubber-boy scores a real own goal there doesn’t He, going mainstream with ‘the sewer’ certainly hasn’t stopped the utter s**t flowing from the fat one,

      If Bain was wearing His moms glasses on the Sunday befor the murder of the family that would tend to suggest,(to anyone with half a brain), that His own glasses were already lost to His use and were then likely to have been where they,(the glasses), were later found which doesn’t suit the prosecution’s version of events at all….

    • QoTViper 3.2

      Because it’s simply impossible to criticise Cameron Slater without resorting to cheap homophobic/anti-sex-worker insults. :roll:

      • marty mars 3.2.1

        + 1 I’m sick of it.

      • muzza 3.2.2

        QOT, I’ll assume (benefit of doubt) you bothered to read the article linked, and will have realised that the title was a and paste!

        Or perhaps you simply chimed in having seen the title in my post, and could not resist the urge to protest the injustice of wording while adding nothing of anything to the discussion about the injustice to David Bain being ratcheted up in the press!

        You managed to sucker Marty into the same hollow space too, well done Marty!

        • McFliper 3.2.2.1

          oh ffs.
          So because homophobic/anti-sex-worker insults were used off site, that makes their inclusion in the dialogue on or offsite okay?

          QoT wasn’t saying YOU originated it. Just that there is no place in it to criticise WO.

          WO belittles himself enough with no effort needed from anyone else, imo.

          • QoTViper 3.2.2.1.1

            Thanks, McFliper. muzza, maybe in future you’d like to include context if it so irks you for people to read the words you choose to use in comments and remark on their general shittiness.

            • muzza 3.2.2.1.1.1

              McFlock – No it just means I cut and pasted the orignal text. People getting caught up in language is missing the main points, which illustrates that digital communication can be problematic. Good thing you’re able to read though QoTs intentions though!

              QoT – Or perhaps look into the articles context yourself, and comment on the subject not the wording of the title. Seems the irk , is with you!

              Marty – Sorry bro, was no ill intended, I ,incorrectly tied your reponse to QoTs lack of value add to the serious injustice being done to David Bane, perpetuated by the establishment. Personally I do not agree with the use of some of the language/wording in the article, but in this instance knowing that there is a vehicle which is speaking out against what is going on to David Bane is the bigger message here, IMO.

              • McFliper

                Oh, sorry, I forgot the rules.
                We should accept othering, marginalisation and hate speech simply because they’re not the “main point”, and are therefore unimportant.

                Let us know when it’s okay to start caring about how we treat each other on a daily basis, will you?

                • muzza

                  Your presumptions are incorrect, and I’m not going to indulge them.

                  If you would like to offer something on the David Bane situation go ahead, thats what I linked to. Not interested debating the rights or wrongs of the language used, further than I have already.

                  • McFliper

                    Yeah. You got his name wrong.
                    And Guest was a shitty city councilor, too.

                    But there’s still no reason for anyone to use hate speech.

              • muzza, my intrepretation of QoTViper’s comment was based on

                “Because it’s simply impossible to criticise Cameron Slater without resorting to cheap homophobic/anti-sex-worker insults. :roll:”

                there is not much about bain in there.

                • muzza

                  Quite Marty, which, as pointed out does not actually address the content of the link.

                  Bain it is McFlock, cheers.

                  Shitty councilor, corrupt lawyer, yet no new years *honours* for him. Must have not been important enough part of the cover ups/corruption to rate a mention.

                  Perhaps Guest will extend himself with the Bain *opportunity*, and score himself some *redemptiom* via next years list!

                  • McFliper

                    So we’re just supposed to *ignore* other injustices and hate speech until *you* feel they’re *important* enough to address.

                    Do you *really* think that mediocre *honours* for a provincial *nonentity* are more important than hate speech?

                    • muzza

                      Do what you like McFlock, if language/words in titles or main text detracts from the core message then perhaps thats something which the LF writers might want to consider, ask them, see what you get as a response!

                      I’ve given my position on it, if you can’t read, or don’t like the position, move on!

                      Poor wording, possibly, offensive to some, always, hate speech, its not!

                    • McFliper

                      Actually, you didn’t give your position on it. You said it was a cut&paste, reckoned that the debate was on the bain thing, took umbrage when called on the fact that this means we should accept othering language because other things are more important, and decided that Guest getting a gong was more important to discuss than othering language. You’ve only just mentioned that you don’t think that using “rent boy” to denigrate someone is hate speech. You mentioned no basis for that position, though.

                      Unimpressive.

                    • muzza

                      3.22pm – Mine to Marty Mars
                      “Personally I do not agree with the use of some of the language/wording in the article, but in this instance knowing that there is a vehicle which is speaking out against what is going on to David Bane is the bigger message here, IMO ”

                      Actually, you didn’t give your position on it.

                      Actually I gave it above hours ago, and insinuated no such instruction to anyone on what should or should not bother them. Your presumptions, interpretations and explanations are exceptionally poor today.

                      Should have used the /sarc tag about Guest, figured you might pick that up, but given the exceptionally poor interpretaions today, clearly I should have used it!

                      Language is important, thats not been contended, just don’t be sidetracked so readily!

                      Unimpressive

                      Even by your standards McFlock, yes, yes it is!

                    • McFliper

                      lol

                      Fair call, I missed the comment explicitly directed at someone else.

                      But while you issued “no instructions”, you definitely criticised others for “missing the main point” and refused to countenance debate in any subject are you disapproved of.

                      And frankly, most of the time when I think you’re in the realm of absurdity, you turn out to be stone cold serious. So you might want to tag all your statements for the assistance of people who are on planet earth.

                    • rosy

                      …if language/words in titles or main text detracts from the core message then perhaps thats something which the LF writers might want to consider,

                      I think QoT and McF are taking it up with you, Muzza. Last I knew there was no rule that you had to link to a headline rather than using your own words or linking to text within the article.

                  • Ennui in Requiem

                    OMG,FFS, surprise surprise Muzza…seems you are up against the same old commissariat tag team. I chose the route to Purgatory because down here our sins are not selective, they are in entirety. We all have sins, even the most bald faced PC blog block warts. There was a holy gent wandering by here talking about the right to cast stones….

                    • McFliper

                      Actually, this is the first time QoT and I have been on the same side in a while.

                      But language is important. There’s really no need for collatoral damage when talking about whaleoil. He’s enough of a jerk already.

                  • muzza

                    Yeah no worries on missing it, easily done.

                    But while you issued “no instructions”, you definitely criticised others for “missing the main point” and refused to countenance debate in any subject are you disapproved of.

                    Dude whats with the absolutes, I don’t believe I criticised anyone, it was only about not being deflected away from the primary subject of the link, which is why I did not want to enter into debate around wording, its not why I had posted the link.
                    If you want to start a convo about the wording, cool, ill engage, but didn’t fancy it as a spin off of the Bain linked comment, otherwise I would have been getting readily side-tracked (as if ive not been now), which would have been ironic & hypocritical,, given thats what I have been asking others to be cautious of.

                    And frankly, most of the time when I think you’re in the realm of absurdity, you turn out to be stone cold serious. So you might want to tag all your statements for the assistance of people who are on planet earth.

                    Written digital comms, very easy to interperet incorrectly from the intent.

                    So anyway, David Bain eh!

                    • McFliper

                      Well, if you seriously believe you didn’t come across as criticising anyone, you need to take a class in communication. Actually you probably should, anyway.

                      And fuck David Bain. As if I thought you cared about that possible injustice any more than any other incident involving death that you bring up here as a hobby.

                    • muzza

                      Well, if you seriously believe you didn’t come across as criticising anyone, you need to take a class in communication. Actually you probably should, anyway.

                      Irony is a go to play for you innit!

                      And fuck David Bain. As if I thought you cared about that possible injustice any more than any other incident involving death that you bring up here as a hobby.

                      Followed by (some inward prejudice perhaps towards DB, or is it general anger, or are you out of smokes), and further incorrect presumptions, and a whiff of accusation, my my McFlock, aren’t we all growns up!

                    • McFliper

                      keep stroking that ego, muzz. And avoid making eye contact with yourself in the mirror.

                      Dunedin’s a small town, mate. Some of us are sick to death of conceited little jerkoffs like you pretending to give a damn.

                    • muzza

                      Thing is McFlock, I very much give a damn, but you don’t know me, so you don’t/can’t know that, yet you continue to make incorrect , now abusive assumptions!

                      For the record, every single act of injustice no matter the scale, or where it happens, not just in NZ, but especially in NZ, has an impact, even to those who are not in the immediate vacinity, or directly affected. Every current global event has an impact on us here in NZ, in some way shape or form.

                      The negative consequences of events, touches everyone who gives a shit to pay attention, and even those who don’t give a shit, and think that there is no impact to their own life.

                      Any act of violence, hurt, abuse, neglect, war, famine, poverty, inequality, be it from politicans, bankers, police,, military/intelligence, foreign entities, local entities or the general public, likely as a result of actions/inactions or perpetrated by the afformentioned, does us all damage, it chips away at the collective well being, Attempts to further distort history to hide lies, amplifies the damage, and commits all of us to be living inside of, and with the results, and *solutions* of the lies.

                      I understand that, do you!

                    • McFliper

                      And yet marginalising people on the basis of sexual orientation is fine. Even though it perpetuates inequality, which is apparently one of the things you oppose.

                      Your principles seem somewhat precisely targeted.

                    • felixviper

                      “Any act of violence, hurt, abuse, neglect, war, famine, poverty, inequality, be it from politicans, bankers, police,, military/intelligence, foreign entities, local entities or the general public, likely as a result of actions/inactions or perpetrated by the afformentioned, does us all damage, it chips away at the collective well being”

                      Repeating homophobic slurs surely falls within this muzza.

                      You know it’s actually ok to now and then just say “oops, I shouldn’t have said that, sorry”.

                    • felixviper

                      snap

                    • muzza

                      Felix – Nah its just I don’t like editing other sites wordings, and didn’t fancy thinking something else up, nothing more to it than that, much as some of you are trying hard to conjure up!.
                      The link goes to the same place regardless, where you can read the original title and article text, stop picking over semantics with yourself!

                      Trying, like McFlock and QoT to make some (very weak) case against me for propagating, *hate speech* (McFlock, while being abusive all at the same time), and looking for (suggesting) an apology, seems the brigade might have gotten to you lot eh!

                      @ McFlock – Take it up with LF bro, see what they say, perhaps my cut & paste violates copyright!

                    • McFliper

                      The difference you don’t seem to get is that my “abuse” in this thread is directed solely at you as an individual, and I usually try to avoid belittling entire groups of other people simply to point out that you are a shallow fool who has not the sense to look at their own language.

                      Whereas you, on the other hand, managed to marginalise homosexuals and sex workers by not recognising the hate speech for what it was. And then saying that it wasn’t the “main point” and so you will make no effort to own it or moderate it in any way, even though it was contained in a link that *you* posted here.

                    • muzza

                      The difference you don’t seem to get is that my “abuse” in this thread is directed solely at you as an individual, and I usually try to avoid belittling entire groups of other people simply to point out that you are a shallow fool who has not the sense to look at their own language.

                      I get it alright McFlock ,you are intentionally being abusive, thats your language, your words, your choice!

                      Again, and for the final time, its not my words or my language, (but yes I posted it) I had no inclination or intent to *own or moderate it*!

                      Take it up with LF if you’re serious about what you’re saying, post the email you send to LF, and any reply you might get back from them on here!

                    • McFliper

                      so you made the links and posted the comment, but I should take it up with someone else for you bringing their trash here because the content reproduced here is not your responsibility and you have no inclination to take it.

                      Been taking lessons from dunnokeyo, have you?

                    • felixviper

                      Exactly McF.

                      He’s dumped a rusty fridge on our lawn and is trying to blame Fisher and Paykel.

                      “Nah its just I don’t like editing other sites wordings, and didn’t fancy thinking something else up, nothing more to it than that”

                      Oh I see, it’s not that you’re into spreading bigotry, it’s just that sometimes it’s less effort than not spreading bigotry.

                    • muzza

                      Felix/McFlock/QoT – The link goes to the same LF article, regardless of the words used to create the link in the post here on TS. The LF article will still have language which you are protesting use of, so yes if you’re genuine, then you would take it up with the LF site McFlock/Felix/QoT. its rather simple! – I look foward to reading your protest email posts to LF, and any response you get!

                      By your logic I am propagating/repeating *hate speech/homophobic slurs* on *our lawn* (as if I am somehow outside of the *our*, and it belongs to yourself, McFlock. QoT et al?) regardless of linking to the article using the original text, or edited text, it MUST amount to exactly the same propagation, by such logic…..

                      Which means that your positions, (other than disgracefully trying to prove intent and/or slur me of bigotry/ homophobic hatred etc) MUST be, that people can’t/shouldn’t, etc link to articles, or in this instance, quote link articles, in case someone takes offence at any point in the linking chain! – Yeah, nah!

                    • felixviper

                      1. Where did I exclude you from “our”? Be specific. Show me or apologise please.

                      2. You dumped it, you made a decision to do that, so take responsibility for it.

                    • muzza

                      1: LOL Felix, youre reaching, and attempting to distract!

                      2: Take responsibility for your own logic, or contest my contention of it, see where it leads you!

                    • felixviper

                      You accused me of excluding you from something with a statement I made.

                      Show the statement.

                    • muzza

                      It had a ?, which is not an absolute Felix, its a variable!

                      Stop running around in circles, contest your logic or STFU!

                    • felixviper

                      Ah, I see. You’re a fuckwit? with comprehension problems.

                    • muzza

                      Good on you Felix, you can’t or won’t defend the logic (which actually leads to the root issue here), and are seemingly ok to go around in circles, deflect/avoid etc, which you are entitled to do!

                      But, in case you missed it/couldn’t understand/grasp it, and yourself/McFlock/QoT feel like adressing it, (even in your own head is ok, if you’re not wanting to write it) here is again….(new emphasis, for your assistance, para below, line 4/5) – Try to not get confused/hung up by the *own* red herring again, you seemed to be confused by it the first time, recall the use of ?

                      “By your logic I am propagating/repeating *hate speech/homophobic slurs* on *our lawn* (as if I am somehow outside of the *our*, and it belongs to yourself, McFlock. QoT et al?) regardless of linking to the article using the original text, or edited text, it MUST amount to exactly the same propagation, by such logic…..

                      Which means that your positions, (other than disgracefully trying to prove intent and/or slur me of bigotry/ homophobic hatred etc) MUST be, that people can’t/shouldn’t, etc link to articles, or in this instance, quote link articles, in case someone takes offence at any point in the linking chain”

                      Fin!

                    • felixviper

                      The problem you’re having is the word “must” (or MUST, to put it in your terms).

                      It’s hilarious (by which I mean farking sad) that you think you’re using logic.

                    • muzza

                      The problem you’re having is the word “must” (or MUST, to put it in your terms).

                      So dispute it then Felix, or keep avoiding it, as you like!

                      It’s hilarious (by which I mean farking sad) that you think you’re using logic.

                      I’m not, I have questioned others, and still watching (you currently) avoid the line of questioning, why can’t you answer it Felix, instead of coming back with further deflections?

                      Pretty simple stuff , which you continue to avoid, why?

                    • felixviper

                      You’re making the claim, back it up yourself.

                      You’re claiming that what I said can only possibly mean one thing. That’s what “must” (sorry, MUST) means in the context you used it.

                      It’s up to you to show that’s the case. Using, you know, logic, which would look something like ‘it must mean this because etc’. All you’ve done so far is make an assertion which no-one is obliged to take as read.

                      Once you’ve had a go at that and failed (we can all see what I’ve written and it isn’t what you say it is, idiot) then we’ll get onto the other stuff you’ve accused me of, such as “trying to prove intent” which, again, is something you just pulled out of your arse.

                    • muzza

                      You’re making the claim, back it up yourself.

                      In fact, QoT and McFlock made the original allegations about propagation, which was further concured with by your word, so the onus lies with you (QoT/McFlock), just like the irk, lies with QoT, to prove my intent was to propagate *hate speech, and homophobia*. Making such serious false claims against someone is out of order, but not out of character based on your comments here.

                      Telling me I’m making the claim and to back it up, serves to show how far wrong you have got this one.

                      The rest of what you write is simply more deflecting garbage.

                      Come out and openly accuse me of this hate speech/homophobia based propagation, if thats what this is really about, and we will take it from there!

                    • felixviper

                      No, you’re making claims about what I said.

                      I take great personal offense at being told that I’ve said things I haven’t said and I’d like you to show me where I said these things or apologise.

                      What’s unreasonable about that? If I really have been “trying to prove intent” then you’ll be able to show where.

                      If I really did say something that must mean I think that “people can’t/shouldn’t, etc link to articles”, then you’ll be able to show where.

                      Get it, dick? So far you’ve shown nothing of the sort, because I didn’t say either of those things. If I had, you’d have been able to show where.

                      Any reason you think should be able to make up these lies about me and not apologise, my quite stupid but quite wriggly little friend?

                      (ps everything I’ve accused you of, you’ve admitted to already so you can drop that particular line of bullshit, thanks)

                    • muzza

                      felixviper …
                      3 January 2013 at 12:41 am
                      Exactly McF.

                      He’s dumped a rusty fridge on our lawn and is trying to blame Fisher and Paykel.

                      “Nah its just I don’t like editing other sites wordings, and didn’t fancy thinking something else up, nothing more to it than that”

                      Oh I see, it’s not that you’re into spreading bigotry, it’s just that sometimes it’s less effort than not spreading bigotry.

                      (Semi) clever (thinly veiled) words (my bold, your italic emphasis), which I’m sure you will have an explanation for. No doubt it was just an accusatory enquiry on your part, following your agreement with McFlock!

                    • felixviper

                      I don’t see which part of that you’re disputing, muzza.

                    • muzza

                      How about you break down the intention of your words Felix – 3 January 2013 at 12:41 am, and explain them simply and clearly, step through it?

                      Then there’s reduced chance of misunderstandings!

                    • felixviper

                      What of it? It means exactly what it says – you chose to copypasta the bigoted headline because it was easier to repeat it than to re-word it.

                      Anything there you disagree with? If so, say which bit.

                    • muzza

                      Not too interested in stating what your intent in the words is eh Felix!

                      In your words, I have posted a bigoted headlined link, so are are your words

                      Oh I see, it’s not that you’re into spreading bigotry, it’s just that sometimes it’s less effort than not spreading bigotry.

                      intended to accuse me of propagating *hate speech & homophobia* or not?

                    • McFliper

                      Muzz, I neither know nor care what your intent was.

                      The fact is that you chose to spread it, unmitigated and unaltered.

                      If I were asked to guess what your intent was initially, I’d probably say that it simply didn’t occur to you, as you were distraced by the hard-on that leapt forth in your pants when you found someone who could provide new, verifiable and unbiased information on the topic agreed with your opinions.

                      Subsequent discussion has revealed that you don’t believe that some marginalising and bigoted statements are worthy of discussion, although trite “sarcastic” statements about regional nonentities are worthy of your effort. Which I believes indicates your priorities when it comes to othering language (depending on who is marginalised).

                      For future reference (if you want to avoid being called on the “collatoral damage” your comments cause) you can think about the language you are cut&pasting, and if some of the content is bigoted then try to put a little heads up in the link rather than cut&pasting drivel.

                    • muzza

                      McFlock (same question as I asked Felix)- For the record, do you accuse me of propagating *hate speech and homophobia* – Yes/No

                      Felix – I’ll wait to hear your response to the same question, which I asked you above – Yes/No

                    • McFliper

                      Oh I’m sorry, you missed the “The fact is that you chose to spread it, unmitigated and unaltered.”

                      Is “rent-boy” not used to denigrate WO by likening him to a homosexual sex worker?
                      Did you spread/propagate it to this forum, even if you weren’t the original author?
                      Did you reproduce the headline in full?
                      Did you criticise the choice of language, even if the article might have raised some interesting points?

                      Or did you suggest that the choice of language was unimportant and should not be discussed, thus asking us to accept bigoted language without comment?

                      Just to be completely explicit, based on those questions being answered “yes, yes, yes, no, yes”, my answer to you is:

                      YES

                    • muzza

                      McFlock – Good on you for providing an answer, even to questions which were not asked!

                      Next question to you:

                      Would editing the original title text, but linking to the same protested language/article, still constitute propagating *hate speech & homophobia* ? – Yes/No (just this question)

                    • McFliper

                      oh ffs.

                      This is why you should take a class. I’m not your fucking communications teacher.

                      Basically, bigoted language is like a fart. Try and keep it away from others. If you must share it with them, it’s only courtesy to apologise and open a window.

                    • muzza

                      McFlock – You failed to anwser the question, try again please:

                      Would editing the original title text, but linking to the same protested language/article, still constitute propagating *hate speech & homophobia* ? – Yes/No (just this question)

                    • felixviper

                      Amazing.

                      In what universe could you possibly construe anything I’ve written to mean that I don’t think you’re spreading bigotry?

                      You’ve already openly admitted that you did, and you already gave your reason: you couldn’t be bothered not doing it.

                      If you’ve changed your mind about that and are offering some other reason, go right ahead and say so. It won’t help your case though.

                      I think it’s about time you answered my questions now muzza.

                    • McFliper

                      Because if interacting like a human being was a list of “yes/no” questions, a zx81 could pass the Turing Test.

                      This is going to be a list of 50-odd boolean questions, each becoming increasingly specific, and each becoming increasingly irrelevant to anything other than the language fail you started with. And you know what? I’m only human, too. So sooner or later I’ll be completely wrong, and lead you into another thread like this. I’m sure some people already think I was being a precious fuckwit. But then some people IRL think I’m a fuckwit, too. But on the flipside some people like me, and most of the people who think I’m a fuckwit are jerkoffs. So fuck them, is what I say. I also say “fuck” a lot IRL. filters out a lot of jerks.

                      How about you learn social interaction iteratively, like a normal human being?
                      It starts with consideration as to what people might read, as opposed to simply what you want to say.

                    • muzza

                      In what universe could you possibly construe anything I’ve written to mean that I don’t think you’re spreading bigotry?

                      Then answer the question!

                      You’ve already openly admitted that you did, and you already gave your reason: you couldn’t be bothered not doing it.

                      I’ve admitted no such thing Felix, you’re making shit up twice in the same sentence! Maybe try something, like dropping the double negatives, they seem to lead you into false spaces!
                      As for the reason,thats not the full context though is it – What I said about cut, paste of the words was (which seems you have misinterpreted)

                      “Nah its just I don’t like editing other sites wordings, and didn’t fancy thinking something else up, nothing more to it than that”

                      I think it’s about time you answered my questions now muzza.

                      You have yet to anwer one yet, so you think wrong!

                      McFlock – Lets just leave it at that, as there is no point in trying to pander to every possible offence which could be taken, which is what you are implying (and I’m never going to do), and given you wont answer my second question, Ill take the default as being, that you are in fact about censorship of language, and would have answered yes!

                    • McFliper

                      felix, muzz now chooses to only understand monosyllabic boolean responses to his/her interrogative statements.
                      Just fyi.

                    • McFliper

                      Muzz, it’s not “pandering to every possible offense”. It’s simply understanding the meanings of the words you use.

                      And I’m not saying you shouldn’t link to it, you moron. It’s not like nobody has ever linked to a tangential article but included a warning because the contents might be disturbing or offensive, even if there is an important message there.

                      Ever here of the “NSFW” (Not Safe for the Workplace) warning? Same sort of thing. So the long answer is “yes with an if”, short answer “no with a but”.

                      But then you’re obviously just focused on finding a reason to accuse me of censorship, when all I’ve done is suggest that you not be such an idiot and instead try to see through your obsessions and realise that your language might have unintended consequences. Like contributing to the bigotry of the societal system you love to hate.

                    • muzza

                      McFlock – Anger (my impression from your musings here), swearing, personal abuse (towards me) and repetative sexual references about genetalia! (not just todays convo)

                      Speaking with someone should assist you with all of these as they will be linked, perhaps something to address before you attempt to take any future moralistic position in discussions around use of language, and so forth!

                    • felixviper

                      Thanks McF, I’ll try.

                      muzza, sure you did. It was in the sentence you just quoted now where you said you copied a bigoted headline because it was easier than writing a new one. The relevant words are “I didn’t fancy thinking something else up“.

                      To make it simpler for you (ffs this is amazing) we can break it into two questions:

                      Is the headline bigoted? [Yes/No]
                      Did you copypasta it? [Yes/No]

                      The answer to both of those being yes, you’ve admitted that you were spreading bigotry.

                    • McFliper

                      Muzz, that’s one of the advantages to swearing.

                      When someone associated the patois of the street with anger, yet is still happy to spread bigoted language, then they deserve abuse (much of which in the base lexicon revolves around reproductive systems). And equating the lingua valde francum with moral or intellectual debasement is remarkably shallow. So they flag themselves as a shallow stupid bigot deserving of more personal abuse.

                      And avoiding the previous comment by criticising your opponent is plain stupid.
                      As opposed to abusing your opponent while addressing their comments, which is what I like to do if my opponent is a case study of Dunning-Kruger. Prevents boredom.

                    • muzza

                      muzza, sure you did. It was in the sentence you just quoted now where you said you copied a bigoted headline because it was easier than writing a new one. The relevant words are “I didn’t fancy thinking something else up“.

                      Felix, yes copied the text, but said I found it bigoted, no I did not!
                      The error you make is thinking you get to choose the relevant words while trying to crystal ball my intent., The key is really the first part of the sentence, where I said I don’t like editing other sites wordings, the second part you favour, (while reading to right to left), is that I dont want to speak on LF’s behalf, by changing their words, when my intent was quoting verbatim!

                      To make it simpler for you (ffs this is amazing) we can break it into two questions:

                      Is the headline bigoted? [Yes/No]
                      Did you copypasta it? [Yes/No]

                      The answer to both of those being yes, you’ve admitted that you were spreading bigotry

                      Is it!

                      Felix, you have answered the first question on behalf of yourself only,. never put words,thoughts or your blatant prejudices in my mouth!

                      Edit : McFlock, stop promoting yourself bro its about as challenging to see through as an open window, and its not smart!

                    • felixviper

                      So when you said you didn’t personally approve of some of the language in the article, you weren’t talking about the homophobic slur in the headline?

                      That’d be odd.

                      So which is it, muzza? Either you disapprove of the language but repeated it out of laziness, which is what you’ve been saying all along and I’ve been agreeing with all along, or you’ve changed your mind and now approve of the language.

                    • McFliper

                      If you didn’t think it was bigoted, why did you consider changing the language of the headline before you decided that you “didn’t fancy thinking something else up”?

                      Or did your “I do not agree with the use of some of the language/wording in the article” not actually refer at all to the bit you reproduced here, the headline? If it did refer to the headline, was it bigoted or was there something else about it you disagreed with?

                      edit: fuckballs
                      another edit: shitsnap felix :)

                    • muzza

                      So when you said you didn’t personally approve of some of the language in the article, you weren’t talking about the homophobic slur in the headline?

                      Personally I was/am not bothered , as you are about the language in the header, I was more interested in the article details How you interpret it (let it affect you) is your personal choice, as it is mine. The LF team do some great investigative work IMO, but they also use alot of language etc, just like McFlock does, which could detract from the articles message, as I made note of. early in this thread. An example would be the word fuck-tard (used heavily by LF), its not really necessary, but I dont microscope it the way you might, and Ill leave the hand wringing to others, its not for me!

                      That’d be odd.

                      Really Felix, given the utter shit you and McFlock come up with, that is of no surprise to me!

                      So which is it, muzza? Either you disapprove of the language but repeated it out of laziness, which is what you’ve been saying all along and I’ve been agreeing with all along, or you’ve changed your mind and now approve of the language.

                      You have asked the same thing twice, Im only answering it once, and stop making shit up Felix, its getting tedious!

                    • McFliper

                      Muzz, I refer you to my comment here and your reply.

                      So you didn’t actually give your position on the material you cut&paste. You don’t have a problem with the marginalising aspects of using “rent boy” in a derogatory way. You think the headline language is appropriate.

                      Fair enough. You don’t just spread bigoted language, you are a bigot. And if you think potty mouth is even close to hate speech, fuck you fucking stupid fucktard. You don’t even realise the difference between addressing an individual and marginalising entire sectors of society.

                      edit: you’re also a fucking coward for taking this long to actually address the concerns raised yesterday about the headline language. Tool.

                    • felixviper

                      Finally we get there.

                      I don’t think muzza has any idea what he’s just said, but it’s about the third time he’s admitted it and I’m sure anyone else can see it so I’m out.

                      On record as a bigot, a coward, and a liar, and too stupid to notice.

                    • muzza

                      Felix /McFlock – Bigot, coward, liar, stupid – Quite some list of defaming/slanderous accusations there, but then, who would argue with the genius of you two intellectual giants, thought police, censorship committee, deciders/defenders of what is/is not abuse on these here boards, and hypocrites of note!

                      Fortunately, your musings are transparent and callow, the frothing desire to impose blatant shortcomings, and obvious lack of life experience which is not behind a screen, by demanding that others bend to your predisposed prejudicial mind set, leading to predetermined outcomes of your making to *satisfy* yourselves with.

                      When challenged about questionable motives,(including by the LF representative) and the desperately desired outcome becomes unattainable, abuse, demands, word twisting, (deliberate?) misinterpretations and misdirection become the go to plays, along with other *tools* which seek to subvert the obvious flaws in the attack methods assumption, and the weakness of the protagonists!

                      This is followed up with the claiming of *victory* for the *entire marginalised sectors of society*, against the perpetrator of the *hate speech & homophobia*. The closing off of the debate, having rigged a TKO decision, and exiting the arena, patting each other on the back with a hoodwink!

                      Pausing to imagine that the *pseudonym* they have rounded on to impose their views/will/prejudice, could possibly have direct experiences, preferences and affiliations with those same *marginalised sectors of society*, who they proclaim to be defending against such horrifying bigoted actions of the original post, is simply not possible, such amazing personality traits as predjudice/chips on shoulders/superiority complex, prevent it!

                      Only they get to decide who is marginalised, and who fits in the box to claim marginalised status, and thus *control* what can/can’t be published here and how, as it panders to their insecurites and bias. Muzza, cannot possibly fit in any box in the minds of these two childlike masterminds!

                      No, the discussion outcome has been (pre) determined, the profile of the handle named muzza, having been *outed*, assumed in iron clad certainty, as the anti, to their hero status!

                      LOL

                    • whew you guys (non-gender specific) that was an enjoyable exchange – from the outside anyway.

                      muzza after all that the point still seems to be missed – anyone can be offended by an offensive headline and it is their right to be, as I was. Attacking slater with boring overused lazy hurtful descriptions is a pain because it is so unnecessary and there is too much collateral damage. IMO QoT’s inital post was true and I still agree with it. If you choose not to see that muzza then so be it but it is below the line imo to try and defend someone by attacking a disadvantaged group/s whether indirectly or carelessly.

                      and it could so easlily have been sorted but the discussion has illuminated so thanks.

                    • muzza

                      Hi Marty, bigot muzza here

                      muzza after all that the point still seems to be missed – anyone can be offended by an offensive headline and it is their right to be, as I was.

                      People can take offence at anything they like, I have never intented to argue that. I could take offence (if so wanted) on a daily basis, but it achieves very little.

                      What I do have a problem with, is people making accusations at me (of a very serious nature) based on the *taken offence,* when there was never any intent, (although they tried to *prove* it) and turn it into slanderous filth using disgraceful , inept tactics!

                      The point was taken Marty, I can tell you that, its the undirectional point taking, which I find hypocritical!

                      You did not do this, others have!

                    • good for you muzza – I simply care about those who can’t defend themselves and get used tactically as derogatory labels to try and insult others. The people that do that are low and deserve a pile of crap on them. In terms of c&p – I think it is a responsibility of a poster to highlight any area that may adversely affect others especially in areas considered “hot’ – that is a courtesy – some people are courteous and others not. This is not necessary if the headline is in alignment with the views of the poster or they just don’t care. But the old “what?” “me?” innocence panto can’t really be used as a defence – although it is often the favorite one.

                      The links put up give me information on the interests of the poster and there is a linkage between what a poster puts up as a link and the views of that poster and that relates to the language used and alterations/deletions made, even the way it is presented.

                      anyway…

                    • McFliper

                      Bigot
                      You spread bigoted language and said that you had no problem with it,

                      coward
                      you took 2 days and however many comments to admit you had no problem with it,

                      liar
                      you said you’d addressed the point of the language in the headline when you hadn’t,

                      stupid
                      self evident.

                      Nice monologue, though. Always nice to see how the word appears through idiot-tinted glasses.

                      As an aside, I notice in my previous comment that I used the term “fucktard”. Upon reflection, it seems plausible that the word is a portmanteau of “fuckwit” and “retard”, in which case I might have offended people and loved ones of people with some types of intellectual disability. I withdraw the word and apologise for my carelessness, and will try to avoid that language in the future. Sorry.
                      muzz: it’s not that fucking difficult, do you see?

              • QoTViper

                QoT – Or perhaps look into the articles context yourself, and comment on the subject not the wording of the title.

                No, muzza, you don’t actually get to tell me what to do.

                • muzza

                  Did you forget what preceeded that suggestion…

                  muzza, maybe in future you’d like to include context….

                  Use of the words, like (yours) and perhaps (mine), are offers, or suggestions only, not demands (speaking for myself) hence you trying to play smart arse is hardly necessary!

                  • QoTViper

                    I made a suggestion to improve your future interactions here. You directed what topics I can comment on. Tiny difference, also, you’re the one who kicked this off by uncritically repeating someone’s prejudiced language, so I’ll play as much of a smartass as I like.

                    • muzza

                      I made a suggestion to improve your future interactions here.

                      Which made no actual comment about the subject matter, almost certainly having not read past the (imported) title of my post

                      You directed what topics I can comment on.

                      No, thats how you have interpreted my suggestion of perhaps reading the article, and adding comment, what you do is entirely your choice obviously.

                      Tiny difference, also, you’re the one who kicked this off by uncritically repeating someone’s prejudiced language,

                      You have got to be kidding with that one – If you have an issue with the words, take it up with the LF writers, let me know what they say. I’m not interested in pandering to the needs of every/any bias on here, by editing link headers in case someone takes offence!

                      so I’ll play as much of a smartass as I like.

                      Cool, sound game plan. Not enough professionalism around these days!

        • marty mars 3.2.2.2

          sucker marty here – umm I wasn’t meaning you muzza

      • Lauda Finem 3.2.3

        We would suggest that you brush up on your colloquial English as in its usage in AUSTRALIA, we are after all an AUSTRALIAN site.

        The term “rent boy” has no exclusive use clause attached to it and its use in the article Muzza has referred to is certainly NOT homophobic. The colloquial/slang term “Rent-boy” is often used to describe various forms of male prostitution, Straight, POLITICAL, MEDIA, sporting and of course Homosexual. The word Prostitution and or any innuendo/inference attached to it, as with the use of the term “Rent-Boy”, has no prescribed exclusive use policy…..at least that was the case when we last checked.

        The English language and the written word is ever evolving, that’s why we here in AUSTRALIA like to update/republish our national Dictionary (Macquarie) every so often, but of course KIWI’s can’t afford that sort of educational TOOL as always they rely on Australia to do the heavy lifting.

        Whilst on the subject of TOOLS; YOUR allegation of “anti sex-worker insults” is in fact in our view highly SUSPECT as we certainly made no implicit reference whatsoever to sex workers in our piece, nor are we for that matter denigrating of anyone who is gainfully employed within that industry.

        Our only reference to prostitution, by inference, was to the POLITICAL prostitute Cameron Slater and our very accurate observation that the “TRUTH” dedicates an inordinate amount of space to its personals classifieds…….the “tongue in cheek” inference being that it is obviously not a credible publication that relies on quality editorial content to achieve sales…….but you obviously missed that point, if in fact you even bothered to read the piece.

        Further, we suspect that you, unlike the author of our article “John Keys “rent boy” Cam Slater wants to fuck Bain [badly] using a corrupt District Court Judge.”, are in all likelihood far from an individual who identifies as Gay and thus not qualified to comment…….but of course that’s just our supposition.

        Reading the thread below we are also inclined to suspect that your comment (above) had an ulterior motive which unfortunately back-fired; we were in fact alerted to the existence of the comment by an unprecedented volume of traffic being referred to our site by http://www.thestandard.org.nz.

        We would recommend that you read these two pieces and then purchase a sense of humour:

        http://www.odt.co.nz/news/schools-news/170815/madly-politically-correct

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8128866/Bastards-booze-wheres-our-sense-of-humour

        Given that you QoTViper are obviously a self-styled dedicated anti-homophobia crusader (Yeah Right!) you will no doubt be getting right in behind our up coming series on the Peter Ellis case.

        Have you heard of the bloke? Well if not he’s one of your Gay Kiwi brothers that rotted in jail for around a decade; all as a result of an impossible series of pornographic Hans Christian Andersen inspired fairy tales involving Lions, Giraffes, secret tunnels, trap doors and of course the now infamous black Penis……..now hows that for PC language QoTViper?

        In our humble opinion Mr Ellis is yet another victim of your so-called justice system. In fact we will be arguing that he was the victim of a rampantly HOMOPHOBIC macho society, its police force, crown law office and the HOMOPHOBIC political movers and shakers of the era.

        In fact, given your obvious concern with homophobia we’re a little surprised that you and your mates (below) are not already doing time for breaching the name suppression orders in and around the Peter Ellis case……..why is that?

        New Zealand and its inhabitants are an international laughing stock, but its actually not that funny given that many of your innocent fellow citizens have suffered in the circus that is now destroying New Zealand’s reputation!

        In closing we’ve formed the view that you might be more than a little challenged when it comes to distinguishing “shit from clay”, Or perhaps its just that you’re a POLITICAL shit stirrer or then again perhaps just a National Party TROLL………After all neither you, nor any of the tag team assembled below, bothered taking up Muzza’s suggestion (again somewhere below) to contact us for clarification…… so just why was that QoTViper, or are you not one who subscribes to the legal maxim of natural justice?

        • felixviper 3.2.3.1

          lol.

        • muzza 3.2.3.2

          New Zealand and its inhabitants are an international laughing stock,

          Illustrated nicely in the response above by Felix – (lol) -WTF is that about!

          NZ has of course been an experiment (on-going), and we see some of the consequences via the protest/responses by the likes of QoT/Felix and McFlock, and the energy expended in fighting against injustice (Fuck David Blain – to quote McFlock), while manufacturing bias based *injustice* born of incorrect perception of their own (programmed) world view. They scramble to both attack and defend injustice simultaneously, while throwing distractions around trying to defend obvious prejudical bias. Failure to understand that there is a bigger picture, and what it might look like , a huge problem!

          Much as I would like to think that Felix/QoT/McFlock and others are not representative of the *average kiwi*, experiences and interactions, tell me the optimism is misplaced!

          • felixviper 3.2.3.2.1

            “Illustrated nicely in the response above by Felix – (lol) -WTF is that about!”

            It’s all the response that semi-literate drivel deserved.

        • QoTViper 3.2.3.3

          Yep, this massive overreactive rant has certainly put me in my place.

        • Te Reo Putake 3.2.3.4

          Help me, Jebus! I love the way the writer can’t help launching into a racist tirade against Kiwis, before chiding TS posters for being too sensitive. That certainly makes the use of ‘rent boy’ look less bigoted, eh, what?

          Still, at least they are honest about the motivations of their sources; the article notes that they got a copy of the Truth from a regular reader.

          “Our supporter bought the paper for the prostitute ads section”.

        • Rogue Trooper 3.2.3.5

          Wow! (that’s all I can say) phew, sure gets hot in the outback, especially today I hear; I pray no more lives are lost.

    • Treetop 3.3

      “He said (Binnie) the issue was largely irrelevant because there was no evidence showing Mr Bain was wearing the glasses at the time of the murders.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10856832

      Glasses are not an issue.

      People love to tangle up truths and half truths and throw in some bull shit for good measure.

    • Bill 4.1

      Agree on a heavy (and increasing) tax being introduced. But I think the idea of dispensing that tax back to consumers is flawed. I’d rather it went to government and was earmarked for a rapid development of carbon free public transport systems. (I can’t remember what info has gone into posts I’ve written to date, but over 40% of NZs CO2 comes from road transport…so replacing private transport with public transport would make a large intitial dent in emissions)

      Also, Hanson appears to suggest that a tax would increase the feasability of alternative energy supplies…but alternative energy supplies (infrastructure) takes a fair amount of time to develop and build. So although I’d agree that it needs built, I don’t think it can be relied on it to solve the problem of emissions in the short/medium term. In other words, I’m going along with Anderson who reckons the demand side is absolutely crucial for now.

      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        Interesting that Hansen had to make this proposal in the context of “not increasing the size of government”. Clearly he’s talking to an American audience.

        But absolutely it seems that the idea of ‘peak oil’ somehow saving us from our own folly would appear to be a false hope. While we have reached a bumpy production plateau; it would seem that there’s still enough extractable carbon in the ground to be ‘game over’ from a climate perspective.

        As Jenny has been saying for sometime now … we actually have to leave the damn stuff in the ground in order to have any hope whatsoever. Given that our whole economy is based on coal, oil, concrete and steel … that has massive implications everywhere. And people know this instinctively.

        Personally I think the best hope is for the WAIS and/or Greenland to collapse catastrophically and dramatically raise sea-levels by 2-7m metres in less than a decade … and force the issue globally.

        • Bill 4.1.1.1

          Unfortunately you might be right in saying that a catastrophic event is needed to wake us up. I hope not, because it’s not so easy to respond and adapt when the shit has already hit the fan. And if there is a likelihood of one non-linearity feeding into a subsequent one – eg, loss of arctic ice kick starting methane release…

        • Napkins 4.1.1.2

          I suspect you are being too optimistic.
          Capitalism, consumerism and the resource extraction required to keep both going are going to grind onwards at the maximum pace that the smartest minds in the world can organise for. Even against ever increasing headwinds and the detriment of growing numbers of people at the bottom.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.1

            +1

            As capitalism absolutely requires increasing resource extraction the only hope we have of decreasing GHG emissions is to drop capitalism.

  4. LynWiper 5

    IMAGINE

    George Bernard Shaw
    Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire; you will what you imagine; and at last you create what you will.

    or just follow on from John Lennon’s song…

    Imagine if all the parties that do not support asset sales joined together and agreed to and made a public unified announcement *All assets sold will be renationalised on our return to government.*

    Quote KV 1/1/13 7.50pm, except I’m proposing all like minded parties put their policy on the line,

    “A simple statement by the leader of the opposition re the re-nationalisation of unique or monopoly class assets like the hydro-dams and electricity infrastructure will be a major red-flag highlight of the risk analysis by the Australian, US and Asian investment analysts. All assets sold will be renationalised on our return to government.”

    Would love to see an Imagine blog, no judgemental follow ups, just a brain storm of what TS readers would add to the IMAGINE list. Happy 2013.

  5. karol 6

    Is the top left hand corner of the Stuff website main page, it’s version of “page three”? Do they assume that their readership is largely people who want to gaze upon pretty young women as often as possible, regardless of significance of said women?

    • QoTViper 6.1

      Hey now, sometimes they have super-grainy zoomed-in screenshots from hilarious YouTube videos which went viral six months previously.

      • karol 6.1.1

        Yes, they do vary the images a little from time to time, often with laddish stuff like male rugby heroes. But the main default option seems to be those retro pretty young women.

        • felixviper 6.1.1.1

          Why can’t I see these pictures? All I get in the top left is the weather.

          • karol 6.1.1.1.1

            Blow the weather. They always have a story promoted with an image there. This morning it includes images of the things people want to give up in their New Year resolutions – really? Do people actually make those resolutions?

            • felixviper 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Ah I see. At the moment it’s a young boy wearing pink shoes OH THE HORROR.

              Why are you reading that dross anyway?

              • karol

                Gotta get NZ news from somewhere. I prefer Stuff to the cluttered mess that is the NZ Herald site . But I also check out Scoop, RNZ and google NZ news.

  6. Rogue Trooper 7

    RNZ-World Watch-“coal consumption increased great and widely last annum

    Dom-MOH directive to reduce ED arrivals revealed to St John, despite projected growth in “falls” workload; wtf?

    -Hollywood films “bloated” length; Time for Intermissions.
    (Pi did not appear that long, or to go on forever and ever, unlike Titanic, yet sadly, long enough)

    -US Military “four pillars” is likely a one-legged dog called Old Yellow; a “military to military” relationship with China (60% of the fleet in the Pacific by 2020, budgets sailing through)

    “She’s The Queen of The Silver Dollar
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV5ztdWx56I

    -Hookie

    • LynWiper 7.1

      RT, we took my 84 and 85yr old parents to the movies yesterday. The last movie they went to was The World’s Fastest Indian and prior to that Forrest Gump so it’s been a while. Funnily enough Dad asked about getting an ice-cream at intermission. We explained that was no longer an option so he’d need to stock up prior to going in. Fortunately as it was Quartet and only 93mins long, it was ok for elderly bladders’! Dad also recalled sound proofed mothers’ rooms with microphones, something I hadn’t known of. I reassured him we wouldn’t be standing to sing God Save the Queen and on a sadder note he also recalled racially segregated Theatres.

      • bad12 7.1.1

        Ah we kids knew there was something different about us lot when mum took us to the flicks and She refused to even stand for God Save the Queen, us kids didn’t dare do anything else but follow suit….

  7. Rogue Trooper 8

    Why the Tree Loves the Ax
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1172799.Why_the_Tree_Loves_the_Ax

    -Lewis

    (notes from the crypt)
    An Aura Nation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian -buried their dead, made some tools and painted inside the Cave (Nick-Murder Ballads, “They Call Me The Wild Rose”) became “intelligent Like Water for cocoa Beans, baked beans, ma baked beans…
    now, there conceptualization of their world was not a “misfire” at fantasy (mixed with Asch es)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Asch the metaphorical came with the “literal”. Theres that
    Recurring Phenomena again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology , philosophically and psychologically, year after freakin Yeah! Some very perceptive “pontification”-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Merleau-Ponty.
    Even “Dr Bombay” concurs with the diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V.S._Ramachandran.

    Use some the Wishbone Ash (and bud the rod for the children if you care)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin%27_Free:_An_Introduction_to_Wishbone_Ash

    -Isaac (The Man Who Was Not There)

  8. Rogue Trooper 9

    or, One could try some Nazareth (from where good things Do come)
    clean off our bicycles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEpD9RH-Wds
    look out for This Flight Tonight
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylW6sC6NNhY
    and of course
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHNkOQCIzk
    Ouch*

    (thanks to the doubling and tripling up of property)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j76FeCVDFE

    -Whitesnake ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_an%27_Willing )

  9. Rogue Trooper 10

    this actually belongs on “Politics and Pleasure” yet there does not seem to be much pleasure flowing from this government, Oh Well
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesh_and_Blood_%281985_film%29

    -The Hitchiker (Shiny Happy People Holding Hands)

    p.s. thanks to the socratic whirlpool one, i’m not so glum either :)

  10. Rogue Trooper 11

    Shite, so many words so little light;

    “The man who comes back through the Door in the Wall will never be quite the same again -(chauvanistic period)- as the man who went out. He will be wiser but less sure, happier but less self-satisfied, humbler in acknowledging his ignorance yet better equipped to understand the relationship of words to things, of systematic reasoning to the unfathomable mystery which it tries, forever vainly, to comprehend”

    -Aldous Huxley : The Doors of Perception

    (“but if the prevalence of illicit drugs is any indicator, it seems our people long to see the world afresh again” ) I did and grew Salvia D. (it’s legal, and if you can Master that…you have begun a journey)

    but that was a long time ago, in a place far, far away.

    -John

  11. lprent 12

    Sorry about the outage. My fault.

    We were getting hammered by multiple bingbots running all over the site trying to find out how close to 100% CPU they could make the server run. I was using .htaccess to deny the bot. Unfortunately I hadn’t thought it through and was denying everyone pushed through one of the cloudflare servers (oops). I should have used the cloudflare tools..

    I have now taught the bingbot that using a geoip to look at location of our server and then hammering it in the middle of the server’s ‘night’ is not a good idea for our site. Used the bing webmaster tools to say when the middle of the night was.

    • Saarbo 12.1

      My heads hurting L, just do what you have to.

      • lprent 12.1.1

        Umm. Re-reading that I see what you mean. The short version:-

        Frigging microsoft was hogging our site and making it slow (hiss!). I stopped them (yay!) and taught them a think or two. But I’m sorry that I screwed up access to the site while I was doing it (contrition).

        • McFliper 12.1.1.1

          :)

        • LynWiper 12.1.1.2

          You had me on “sorry about the outage” In your hands totally!

          • LynWiper 12.1.1.2.1

            Done! Better than a magazine subscription. Finally got around to donating to The Standard. Once again thanks Lynn and co for all you do.

        • Rhinoviper 12.1.1.3

          So I heard: “The day that Microsoft makes something that doesn’t suck will be the day they start manufacturing vacuum cleaners”.

    • mike 12.2

      You lost me after “Now listen carefully Max,…”

  12. xtasy 13

    THIS is a MUST READ for ALL who are:

    ● Concerned about what the new ‘Social Security (Benefit Category and Work Capacity) Amendment Bill’, currently before the Social Security Committee of Parliament, will bring in the way of PRIVATISED WELFARE in the form of outsourced medical and work capacity assessments, NGO agency involvement and so forth;

    ● presently on the Sickness or Invalid’s Benefit, or likely to have to apply for these, or the future Jobseeker Support Payment, or the Living Support Payment benefits;

    ● who are working in the health, disability or any related areas, involved with assessing, caring for, supporting or otherwise working with sick, disabled or injured, dependent on welfare support;

    ● who are advocates for the above types of persons, or activists, seriously concerned and ready to take actions to avoid serious harm, suffering and unreasonable pressures to be placed on sick, injured and disabled;

    ● who are perhaps presently on ACC, or are likely to be claimants for serious health and injury issues causing disability and incapacity to work, and who may in some cases also still end up with WINZ on their benefits.

    The following article ‘A Tale of two Models: Disabled People vs Unum, Atos, Government and Disability Charities’ – by Debbie Jolly, DPAC, is a MUST to read, as it reveals how key players in the form of the UK state department DWP, the private insurer Unus and private work capacity and medical assessor ATOS, have and are working together, to restrict entitlements for sick, injured or disabled depending on state support.

    Key professional players are mentioned, who have in part been on the payroll of questionable private insurer Unus, or worked for organisations or institutes set up under that insuer’s and the state’s funding, who have worked together, linked together, refrained from disclosing interests, and thus were involved in high level lobbying and introduction of major, restrictive reforms to welfare in the UK.

    Names turn up, who should be well familiar to any person, who has ever read, listened to or seen any of the highly one sided presentations by the Principal Health Advisor for Work and Income, and paid for by MSD, Dr David Bratt, a staunch promoter of a “work ability focus” already, who is involved here in New Zealand (together with other key players in the game), to bring in very harsh, questionable reforms, that have led to serious harm, psychological distress, untold pressures and even increased suicides in the UK.

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/05/31/a-tale-of-two-models-disabled-people-vs-unum-atos-government-and-disability-charities-by-debbie-jolly-dpac/

    It is time to be informed, be alert, take a solid stand, and to voice opposition to the most draconian, unfair, not evidence based, unbalanced and unreasonable welfare reforms New Zealand has seen since the early 1990s.

    • Treetop 13.1

      I am yet to read the link and will do so carefully.

      Did you see this today?

      ACC pays $61m to patients injured in care

      “Figures related to Fairfax under the Official Information Act show the 10 most expensive treatment injury claims totalled $3.2 million in the last financial year.”

      “A total of 61.3m was paid to 7832 people for treatment injuries in the same year.”

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8135203/ACC-pays-61m-to-patients-injured-in-care

      Not hard to see why people end up on ACC and then they are chucked onto a Work and Income NZ benefit (sickness/invalid) and Work and Income NZ now want to say that thousands of people got good treatment within the health system.

      I have not yet addressed the Work and Income NZ cases where the health system are not diagnosing or treating them.

      The DSM – V due out in 2013 is only going to make the stats higher for medical misadventure.

      Happy New Year to those who are at the mercy of the health system because Work and Income NZ now want to poke you; the new carrot and the stick.

      Happy New Year to everyone else as well.

      • xtasy 13.1.1

        So 61.3 million paid to 7,832 claimants is on average only $ 7,826.86 per person.

        Of course that sounds like a fair bit of money to some, but what is the “news-worthiness” of this, as the costs are likely to have been totally justified, and the payments needed to cover essential treatment and so forth?!

        Taking the 3.2 million for the 10 most expensive claims out leaves 58,100,000 to divide by 7822 leaves $ 7,427.77 per person on average.

        With operation costs ranging from tens to hundreds of thousands per case, it is not surprising that there will be some quite expensive claims resulting in such figures. Other measures may over time also cost a lot.

        That Stuff.Co article is just typical mainstream media figure juggling and so forth. It is actually quite detrimental to write such one sided articles, as it tries to give the impression to Joe Average and Jill Average, that there is too much money being spent, so measures need to be taken to make cuts and to tighten up on entitlements.

        If only some more people would use a calculator do get some more realistic figures, and above all their brains, to get a hang of what really goes on, we would not have a debate about some misleading political agendas.

        Stuff “Stuff.co”, they are getting worse also.

        • Mary 13.1.1.1

          Precisely xtasy. The same’s done with the “total welfare bill” with no recognition of increased numbers of people qualifying and the huge decreases in what individuals receive. Even NZ Superannuation is often thrown in for good measure. Same with benefit “fraud” statistics. The whole thing’s a sham to make it look like government spending is out of control. It’s nasty stuff, but gives us more reason to be even more vigilant to make sure people are given the opportunity to see the truth.

        • Treetop 13.1.1.2

          It is not about the money for me, it is about the errors made in the delivery of health care.

          • xtasy 13.1.1.2.1

            My criticism was not really so much directed at you, Treetop!

            I know where you come from, it is the costs of unacceptable levels of medical misadventure, and I can tell you, this is just the tip of the iceberg, as not all is covered by ACC.

            What about cases going unnoticed, because patients die, commit suicide, are unable to make a claim due to incapacity as a result of mental and physical damages, and the list goes on!

            What also about “misadventure” in the mental health areas???

            I have first hand experience with a scandalous case of more or less criminal negligence of a person I know, yet the health board used the Privacy Act and other laws to block all information applied for, while the patient in question did not have the ability or guts to take it further!

            So much goes under the radar, it is not funny. And who pays for the costs? The tax payer, who reads such articles like the one in The Press, part of Fairfax Media, who also own and run Stuff.Co., and then thinks, wow, am I paying for all this???

            Yes, the article should have raised more issues than just present a few swiftly arranged figures! Appalling modern day, laissez faire, lazy journalism!

    • xtasy 13.2

      Just to add: I know it is a bit long an article, but it is quite interesting, revealing and full of valuable information about persons and stakeholders involved, as well giving a good historic overview of how things evolved in the UK.

      Part 2 I find much more important as part 1, as in part 1 the writer largely reflects on the “social model”, how it came about, is being viewed now, and so forth.

      It is terminology like “bio-psycho-social” aspects, and the use of such terminology in models favoured by welfare privatisers now, in the UK and NZ, that gives real reasons to worry about where the journey is going!

    • just saying 13.3

      Great article – well worth a read.
      Thanks for the link Xtasy.

  13. georgecom 14

    A story regarding Lesley Longstone which is only now surfacing following her sacking/resignation.

    Apparently Longstone was a very caring and compassionate person. A few weeks before she exited she was walking out of a supermarket in Wellington. She saw an old lady struggling to get her shopping into a car. Longstone walked over and asked the old lady “can you manage love?”

    The old lady gave Longstone a mouth full followed by the finger. As she was climbing into the car the old lady muttered “you applied for the job, you came half way round the world for the job, with Hekia in place, you can have it”.

    • Morrissey 14.1

      Longstone seemed neither compassionate nor competent when she obediently launched into her ignorant rant against teachers.

      She lacked the courage and the integrity to tell Steven Joyce to keep his opinions to himself.

      • Ennui in Requiem 14.1.1

        I wont comment on Longstones character, I don’t know her or have any experience of her, so in my book she remains innocent of charges, accusations, conjecture etc, What I do have experience of is the “MBA” class of corporate mercenaries, hired guns making nasty policies hit the road running regardless of human impact. There is a whole international class of them, hired guns with a method but no excuse, bar the threadbare shibboleths of their masters ideology. Lesley appears to be one of them.

  14. north 15

    Well put ennui.

  15. Rogue Trooper 16

    just idling along
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/542100_10151150888055957_863074373_n.jpg
    at least The Standard’s not usually a matinee showing for children, which reminds me, eyed a copy of Lies at 4 Square…now the Rogue has a long-held intuition (that’s all it is mind) about this matter, having The Dark Half that is fading gently away, and observed and studied sociopathy and psychopathy in detail, yet i am not and never will be a juror…Oh Well, Time Will Tell, very sad outcomes for dysfunctional families.

  16. Rogue Trooper 19

    The weather has sure been wild down South
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_weather_man
    Its raining men, hallelujah it’s raining men

    Now regarding Health Politics, I am encouraging my good friend who is primary health care nurse to come out of the bushes (Woodwork,Woodworm,Wormwood or Worm-tongue?) and share her learnings which are to the left, for example, the damage that MARGERINE is doing to peoples circulatory systems and the outcomes when body defenses act to dislodge the buildup of product not far removed from plastic (common knowledge amongst the medical profession apparently), yet it’s Budget. I have said it before and I’ll say it again BIG FAT LIES
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13519011-big-fat-lies

    Joe Bennett writes well and irreverently in Todays Dominion and other The Press
    (gypsy or Tiger?)
    from the desert, by 2016, the Populations of Palestinians and Jewish people in Israel and the Occupied territories will be similar in number and by 2020 Palestinians will be the numerical majority
    (may need another few tents)

    HBToday: Intoxication Intoxication Intoxication with some UV Radiation slapped in for the price.
    (House prices are going to continue to climb in ak; Excellent writing and insight ak)

    RNZ were repeating an article about the lack of Central and Local Govt wiil towards the educational advancement of our Pacifica Citizens (consider, the decline of manufacturing, without stereo-typing) underemployment and diet.

    Kia Kaha mm

    guess I’ve always been a Fortunate Son
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4GVm9adaU
    playing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAOxCqSxRD0
    Wickedly

    -christian

  17. Just realised it was half ten and I hadn’t posted any thing derogatory about anyone.

    New years resolutions – Made to break :lol:

  18. Frank 21

    At 45 for 9 who would want to be a New Zealander

  19. If I knew how to do any of that, I would.
    I obviously have trouble enough with the music, let alone getting the website how I want it.
    I’ll ask a friend.

    I think I’ve just put a valid email address up.

    Thanks for the nudge.

    • felixviper 22.1

      I recommend http://bandcamp.com

      Their embeddable players will play your whole album, and you can add tracks to your album whenever you like (which I see you like to do)

      • The Al1en 22.1.1

        I’ll have another look at it, ta.

        My thinking is name the ‘band’ al1en.org and just put a buy now/donate button on the site.
        Direct from source, no middle men, no expenses, 100% for the cause.

        • Napkins 22.1.1.1

          And also a small copyright notice.

          © 2013 al1en.org. All rights reserved.

        • felixviper 22.1.1.2

          Yeah keeping it simple is good.

          Do have a look at it though ‘cos it is really simple to use and does a whole lot of stuff, in the long run a lot simpler than doing a whole lot of simple things yourself if you know what I mean. Also costs nothing except (I think) 15% if you’re selling stuff.

          • The Al1en 22.1.1.2.1

            I’ve used soundcloud to post up demos before, and I like the new interface, but I think I’ll stick with my own site for now.

            I tried to get funding from NZonair for the faeces record, sort a fuck off to Key’s constituency chairman complaining about the inside child poverty documentary that inspired me to start this project, but found that unless you’ve had existing success, a large fan base, or live following, there’s not much chance of it happening, save winning a monthly talent show at http://www.theaudience.co.nz/ for a 6k grant.

            I’ll put it up if people keep voting for it. See if they’ve got the balls if it won.
            Use the system to beat the system, or at least make it uncomfortable.

            • felixviper 22.1.1.2.1.1

              NZonair funding is a strange beast, aloof, nepotistic and arcane. At some point most people have to decide whether the time and energy spent navigating the system, kissing the appropriate arses, and jumping through the requisite hoops might be better spent writing recording and performing for audiences of actual people.

  20. xtasy 23

    Sooo, all the international stock exchanges are in a good mood again today, the “fiscal cliff” has been averted, that is the silly story going around the news tickers. What a load of bollocks! So the Democrats and Republicans in the US agree to a 2 month postponement for resolving and addressing the expenditure issues, and tax increases will only be hitting those over 400 k per annum, or about that.

    Yes, what a bloody “achievement”, but nothing has been resolved or achieved. The quantitative easing will need to continue, burdens will be shifted around, ultimately to be paid by the bulk of middle class and certainly the poor, and no solution is there, to get more balance in international trade, to get rid of deficits that have accrued, and to create a desperately new economic order for the whole globe, to steer away from neo capitalist agendas playing off populations between nations, between societies within nations (classes), and to keep wasting energy, that took tens to hundreds of millions of years to be created.

    What about climate change issues, are we getting any solution there?

    No, nada, zilch, nichts, rien, rien ne va plus, indeed, and we get the shit mainstream media give us snippets of infotainment distraction about what is supposedly going on in the world. Where is the NZ media even reporting about details about all this?

    I am afraid, the NZ media is in the process of being dissolved and got rid off, as the private corporate remnants of controlling commercial media outlets have just signed the last deal, to advertise for the status quo, to uphold our dear Hawaiian Leader Maximus Incomprehensiblus, mumbling from “leader” to “leader” across the political ditches, that are crossed by going surfing and BBQing together at some stage, to mend the society, and to run the real dictatorship NZ has become. Thank you John and David (who?), we know what goes on down under.

    What a bloody disgrace, good night, had enough!

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