Open mike 06/01/2013

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1. Jenny 1

   6 January 2013 at 6:34 am

   On the international scene;

   Rapprochement has broken out between the Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas.

   This is surely significant. This gives me great hope for the future.

   The joyous photos speak for themselves. Also the gestures of reconciliation of the respective leaderships.
   Both Fatah and Hamas organisations, have both strength and weaknesses. In my opinion these moves will join their respective strengths and negate their respective weaknesses.

   http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/01/04-2

   Published on Friday, January 4, 2013 by Common Dreams

   In Show of Unity, Hundreds of Thousands Rally in Gaza
   Fatah event in Hamas-controlled Gaza hailed as ‘a step on the road to restoring national unity’
   Lauren McCauley Common Dreams staff writer

   In their first mass gathering in Gaza since 2007, hundreds of thousands of Fatah supporters rallied on Friday in celebration of the 48th anniversary of taking up arms against Israel.

   Supporters waved the distinctive black and yellow flags of Fatah and carried pictures of current President Mahmoud Abbas, an Agence France Presse correspondent reports.

   “Gaza was the first Palestinian territory rid of [Israeli] occupation and settlement and we want a lifting of the blockade so that it can be free and linked to the rest of the nation,” saidPresident Abbas, whose authority has been limited to the Israeli-occupied West Bank since the 2007 conflict between Fatah and Hamas, in a short televised speech.

   Hamas, who permitted the rally to take place in the territory, congratulated Fatah on the anniversary in a statement, saying it considered it a “celebration of national unity and a success for Hamas as well as Fatah.”

   “This positive atmosphere is a step on road to restoring national unity,” they added.

   Lauren McCauley Common Dreams staff writer

   Nothing succeeds like success. Bouyed by the Arab spring the Palestinians like all Arabs are resurgent. This has given the Palestinians the courage and the optimism to overcome their internal historical divisions.

   I wish them well.
   • Morrissey 1.1

     6 January 2013 at 8:22 am

     “Gaza was the first Palestinian territory rid of [Israeli] occupation and settlement…”

     Israel finally moved out those illegal terrorist/settlers, but it has not stopped inflicting murder and mayhem on the citizens of Gaza…..

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WaCJn4hdjc

     That’s the sinister Australian-Israeli MARK REGEV at the end of the clip, explaining why killing that family was okay.
2. Jenny 2

   6 January 2013 at 6:38 am

   ‘

   In other good news. The Green led campaign to halt partial asset sales has achieved a significant victory in forcing a referendum on the issue.

   Nothing succeeds like success. And in even further good news. In the euphoria following this victory, the comments celebrating the achievement of the referendum thresh hold, on this website, display a new feeling of solidarity and respect, even bonhomie, emerging between the Greens and Labour.

   This is great news and all credit to the Greens. Through extra parliamentary joint activity with Labour and other groups, the Greens have pulled the whole political spectrum to the left.

   The Greens gave leadership and put up the challenge, and to their credit, Labour and the rest of the left rose to it.

   This bodes well for the future.

   Now if only the Greens, building on this success, can do this for climate change.

   Building on this victory, I would like to suggest that the Greens, instead of appeasing the conservative views in Labour over climate change. Instead switch to challenging Labour over climate change.

   They could do this immediately in a number of ways. the first would be to call a parliamentary inquiry into the crisis of climate change and invite Labour to attend. Just as labour called a parliamentary inquiry into manufacturing and invited the Greens to attend.

   Another initiative the Greens could take up, to challenge Labour over climate change. Is to put up a private members bill calling for the banning of all coal exports. Which is the most iniquitous immoral and corrupt way of subverting our commitment to Kyoto to cut our fossil fuel use.

   Obviously such a bill will not pass while the Nats are in power and are committed to pimping our country to the fossil fuel big boys.

   But, it will publicly challenge Labour’s conscience on where way they stand on this singular issue, related to climate change. With heavy lobbying of the Labour MPs by the Green caucus I expect that a number (possibly a majority) of Labour MPs will cross the floor rather than vote with the Nats to veto such a private members bill.

   Having voted this way in opposition, these Labour MPs would be more likely to support such a bill when they are in government, (hopefully) within the next 24 months.

   The Greens also need to announce now that they will make climate change a prominent election issue. (Unlike last time when they deliberately decided to play it down).
   • The Al1en 2.1

     6 January 2013 at 6:59 am

     “With heavy lobbying of the Labour MPs by the Green caucus I expect that a number (possibly a majority) of Labour MPs will cross the floor”

     You mean the caucus mps who shat themselves over supporting DC, and are now nothing more than obedient, subservient lap dogs for those behind DS?
     Can’t see them doing anything other than they’re told from now on, but nice thought.

     Perhaps a mod could remove post 3
     [B:duplicate comment removed]
     • Jenny 2.1.1

       6 January 2013 at 7:30 am

       I expect the LECs and the Labour grass roots will have something to say, if as you suggest the MPs ignore the membership wish for a a vote on the leadership come February.
       • The Al1en 2.1.1.1

         6 January 2013 at 7:33 am

         All depends on who they’re more afraid of, voters or their bosses b(l)and of brothers.
       • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.2

         6 January 2013 at 8:21 am

         “I expect the LECs and the Labour grass roots will have something to say, if as you suggest the MPs ignore the membership wish for a a vote on the leadership come February.”

         You expect wrong, Jenny. The members and LEC’s are fine with the process approved at conference and as there will be a unanimous vote of confidence in Shearer in caucus, it will not be going to a wider vote. That’s the process the party agreed to and that’s whats going to happen.

         You are also wrong to refer to the asset sales petition as being ‘greens led’. It was a joint effort between several groups and political parties. There was no ‘leader’.
         • Jenny 2.1.1.2.1

           6 January 2013 at 8:56 am

           Ho ho. “there will be a unanimous vote of confidence in Shearer in Caucus” TRP

           Yes sir, comrade commissar.
           • David H 2.1.1.2.1.1

             6 January 2013 at 10:31 am

             Well TRP seeing as you can tell the future.
             Next weeks Lotto numbers Please.
         • KhandallaViper 2.1.1.2.2

           6 January 2013 at 9:17 am

           TRP
           How do you know there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” ?
           • felixviper 2.1.1.2.2.1

             6 January 2013 at 9:24 am

             Yeah I’m not sure how that works either. Last time there was a unanimous vote it was taken as evidence of a dastardly plot and heads had to roll.
             • Anne …

               6 January 2013 at 10:03 am

               Te Reo Putake is almost certainly right. The main reason there will be no vote is because Cunliffe will not challenge Shearer, and so there will be no cause to trigger the membership-wide vote. That’s my understanding of how it works anyway.

               I may despise the ABC club for their deceitful behaviour, but I guess the aim of the exercise was to make it impossible for Cunliffe to challenge, and in that they have succeeded. The irony is: we have no evidence to suggest Cunliffe was going to challenge anyway.

               I, and many other members, will be watching to see how Shearer handles the re-shuffle. If he continues to ignore Cunliffe – and other promising Labour MPs who supported Cunliffe at the time of the leadership contest – then he will be buying himself into a future fight that will surely cost Labour the next election.

               Two can play that game.

               Btw felixviper, it was a majority vote.
           • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.2.2.2

             6 January 2013 at 10:24 am

             There will be a unanimous vote because there is no longer an alternative. The caucus know that Shearer will be leading the party into the next election and their jobs as MP’s and as Ministers in the next Government depend on him. Some might call it self interest, but it is the political reality.

             Technically, there doesn’t have to be a challenger as its a vote of confidence. But in the absence of an alternative, no Labour MP is going to go into terminal martyr mode.
             • Jilly Bee …

               6 January 2013 at 11:12 am

               Looks like I renewed my membership in vain.
               • weka …

                 6 January 2013 at 11:51 am

                 Nah, your membership is still useful. TRP talks bold, but s/he has no way of knowing what will happen, and it comes across as wishful thinking as much as anything.
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 6 January 2013 at 12:09 pm

                 No you didn’t renew your membership in vain, Jilly Bee, unless you think the leader is everything in politics. For me, the talking head is just the means of delivery for policy. It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader. Shearer is here for the next few years and is going to be a good, if somewhat plodding, PM. He’s not that important; its the changes made that mark the nature of government, not the leader.
                 • Jilly Bee …

                   6 January 2013 at 12:48 pm

                   True, TRP, but the leader needs to be able to articulate the agreed policy in a forthright and confident manner, not stumbling and mumbling his/her way which is happening at present and it’s simply makes me cringe. The last time I saw David Cunliffe being asked for an opinion on the TV news and I wish I could recall what the question was about now, but he answered in two or three concise words which totally answered the question put to him and left the viewer [or this viewer] in no doubt. I can’t say that for DS at the moment and I don’t think he’s going to be able to do so into the foreseeable future.
                 • Jenny …

                   6 January 2013 at 12:51 pm

                   Leadership is not that important??? Just a talking head!!!

                   Another couple of clangers from TRP.

                   But, I suppose if this is what Labour insiders think then it would explain a lot about David Shearer’s dire performance.
                   • The Al1en …

                     6 January 2013 at 1:18 pm

                     “if this is what Labour insiders think then it would explain a lot about David Shearer’s dire performance.”

                     Not to mention those that put him there in the first place.
                     One day, when the memoirs are out.
                 • David H …

                   7 January 2013 at 12:06 pm

                   You mean the stumbling, stuttering, bumbling, head????? Because that is a real turn off for voters, when the message cannot be gotten out in a 10 sec sound bite, or in Shearers case a 5 minute explanation that leaves the viewers going HUH??
               • Olwyn …

                 6 January 2013 at 12:23 pm

                 When the Douglas clique took over the Labour Party, people left in droves, but they had powerful backers and they got away with transforming NZ for the worse. It looks to me now as if the Labour Party is at risk of being hijacked again by undisclosed deals, and the answer is not to leave, but to stay in or join, so as to be in the position to collectively exert pressure in favour of genuine Labour principles. It may not work, but it has a chance of working. The other option, as some people have been saying, is to support the Greens, but I think it is too early to throw in the towel just yet. I would like the party to be able to throw out MPs and even leaders who fail to adhere to Labour principles, as this would arguably place conditions on the sorts of deals that can be made.
             • Bill …

               6 January 2013 at 12:02 pm

               Please explain this lack of alternative? Are backbenchers debarred from challenging leaders? No. Was the unanimous backing of Shearer a genuine backing of him by caucus? If you believe in the tooth fairy, then I guess so.

               But since I don’t belive in the tooth fairy, and since I also do not believe Cunliffe was issuing a challenge at conference, it would seem obvious that a proportion of caucus backed Shearer because it was the pragmatic thing to do….until February.
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 6 January 2013 at 12:13 pm

                 Its over for Cunliffe, Bill. And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM. I hate to repeat myself, but nobody is going to challenge him, because he is going to win the next election and the backbenchers would very much like to be considered for ministerial positions so they are not going to rock the boat.
                 • Bill …

                   6 January 2013 at 12:24 pm

                   So there is no application of common sense or attempt at anlysis that might underpin your opinion….it’s just hope and wishful thinking. (Shearer a shoo-in? No challenge because…oh that’s right – Shearer’s a shoo in. And in the event he’s not, then the ‘fact’ that every single member of caucus is a careerist who reckons he’s a shoo-in secures his position as leader anyway. wow ) Actually – probably more accurate to refer to your string of ultimately baseless assertions floating on circular and self reinforcing hot air and puffery rather than ‘your opinion’.
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     6 January 2013 at 12:32 pm

                     No doubt you’ll apologise for your ignorance and wishful thinking in February, Bill. I won’t hold my breath though.

                     If you have an alternative scenario, please put it up. But do open your eyes first. See any signs of a challenge to Shearer? Any indication that any MP will vote against Shearer in February? Any tittle tattle/gossip/interweb fantasy that suggests I’m wrong?
                   • Bill …

                     6 January 2013 at 12:43 pm

                     If you have an alternative scenario, please put it up.

                     You mean like the reasonable scenario I suggested at 12:02?
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     6 January 2013 at 1:15 pm

                     That scenario seems to be that the minority in caucus that support Cunliffe are keeping their powder dry. Yes?

                     I don’t see any evidence of that at all. Honestly, its over. Done like a dinner.

                     Time to move on to the real issues: what’s the election policy going to be and when is Shearer going to put the senior members of the ABC club out to pasture?

                     edit: got to shoot through for a few hours. It’s been an interesting discussion, cheers. TRP.
                   • Cricklewood …

                     6 January 2013 at 2:43 pm

                     Thats exactly right, if you look at pure instinct to provide for yourself and your family would you rock the boat when it may well cost you a salary which is well above that you would get elsewhere? This is especially true for those dependant on list ranking. Most will make the descision to back the team they think will win purely for the above reason.
                   • KJT …

                     6 January 2013 at 4:54 pm

                     There is no challenge because the ABC mob, or whoever the twits were that put Shearer in, have decided that they would rather lose the election than have a credible leader.

                     Whoever floated in Shearer and his sycophants have destroyed the Labour parties chance of actually winning an election. National may yet lose it, but it will be no thanks to the present Labour leadership.
                 • Jilly Bee …

                   6 January 2013 at 12:53 pm

                   Well, if that’s the case I will seriously consider not party voting for Labour [for the first time since I started voting in 1966]. I will be taking a close interest in the candidate selection for Waitakere, or whatever the seat may morph itself into as to whether I even want to work for his/her election.
                 • fenderviper …

                   6 January 2013 at 2:20 pm

                   ……….”because he is going to win the next election”…….

                   Wow thats great news. Has anybody told voters yet that they MUST give Labour over 50% of the vote so Shearer can WIN the next election?
           • Jenny 2.1.1.2.2.3

             6 January 2013 at 12:32 pm

             <blockquote.TRP
             How do you know there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS”

             KhandallaViper

             Another farcical unanimous vote of confidence? The North Koreans would be proud.

             It will be unanimous vote because the ABCs know that they can’t allow a genuine democratic vote. If they let even one MP vote with their conscience, then more might, then more, and the Shearer gang might just, find themselves on the wrong end of it.

             Self appointed stalinist commissar, TRP has threatened terminal martyrdom against any member of caucus who dares step out of line. The LECs and the membership need to match TRP’s threat, with an even bigger one. Betray the membership and you can put up your own bill boards.
   • bad12 2.2

     6 January 2013 at 9:23 am

     That’s all a little too far of a gaze into the crystal ball of the future for me, come 2014 we may come full circle to where Labour and the Greens have not the numbers to Govern alone,

     Given that NZFirst may balk at forming a coalition with Labour/Greens we may end up with a Labour/NZFirst minority Government with the Greens providing the votes for confidence and supply,

     Whether inside Government or outside the Greens need to be doing the work now on which Ministries it could hope to gain from what is at this point a right leaning Labour Party, and of as much importance the budgetary requirements of these ministries,

     My view is that Kyoto is history and we should resign from that agreement, impose a carbon tax across the whole economy using such a tax to fund an ongoing tree planting program along with research into ways of reducing emissions and capturing carbon from the atmosphere on an industrial scale…
   • Fortran 2.3

     6 January 2013 at 12:58 pm

     Grey Power aligned themselves seriously with the signature collection.
     Please give them some of the credit.
     They are looking more like possible Labour voters now, than for Winston.
     Those in my area who voted Winston will not do so again, some are looking towards the Greens as they are impressed by Russel Norman’s forthright views.
     First time GreyPower appear to have deviated towards the left.
     • millsy 2.3.1

       6 January 2013 at 2:57 pm

       I thought GreyPower were more or less left anyway?
       • the pink postman 2.3.1.1

         7 January 2013 at 3:16 pm

         Not in the Waikato millsy. attended twice,With one or two exceptions it was full of redneck anti young greedy bitter eldery ,we were glad when it was over. Mind you they did put on a good lunch,if one could get there in the rush.We prefer our Rufus Rogers branch for the seniors where all the members look to the future.
3. The Al1en 3

   6 January 2013 at 7:57 am

   Tv leaders debates in 2014
   Should be for the three main parties, no?
   Who would object most, Key or Shearer?
   • Morrissey 3.1

     6 January 2013 at 8:24 am

     Who would object most, Key or Shearer?

     Rewrite as….

     Who would object MORE, Key or Shearer?
     • The Al1en 3.1.1

       6 January 2013 at 8:39 am

       Or rewrite as…

       Who would object the most, Key, Shearer or grammar nazis? 😆
       • Morrissey 3.1.1.1

         6 January 2013 at 9:06 am

         I do believe we have a case of Godwin’s on our hands.
         • The Al1en 3.1.1.1.1

           6 January 2013 at 9:08 am

           No, I was messing with you, but if you didn’t see what I did, I wouldn’t worry about it. 😉
           • Morrissey 3.1.1.1.1.1

             6 January 2013 at 7:30 pm

             No, I was messing with you,

             I KNOW you were, Al1en, you kidder, you.

             …but if you didn’t see what I did, I wouldn’t worry about it.

             I SAW what you did, already! Sheesh…
         • felixviper 3.1.1.1.2

           6 January 2013 at 9:09 am

           Are you serial?
           • McFlock 3.1.1.1.2.1

             6 January 2013 at 2:12 pm

             the nuzzies were pacificly mentioned…
             • The Al1en …

               6 January 2013 at 3:36 pm

               Really? You associate grammar nazi with jack boots and Stuka dive bombers?
               I’m all for defence against the dark arts, like most sane people, but surely it’s about picking your battles, friend.

               No mileage crying heil wolf in my direction.
               • The Al1en …

                 6 January 2013 at 3:38 pm

                 And yes, before you ask, I think sacha baron cohen is knob. 😉
               • McFliper …

                 7 January 2013 at 2:26 pm

                 lol

                 sorry, I was just continuing the mispronounciation jokes.
4. karol 4

   6 January 2013 at 8:43 am

   This article by Naomi Klein, in the form of a letter to Kathryn Bigelow, explains how Bigelow and other film makers get corrupted by the readily available finance for movies that are pro-US military actions. Klein argues that Bigelow’s latest movie, while claiming to be based in fact, legitimises the US use of torture in Gitmo & elsewhere.

   Your film Zero Dark Thirty is a huge hit here. But in falsely justifying, in scene after scene, the torture of detainees in “the global war on terror”, Zero Dark Thirty is a gorgeously-shot, two-hour ad for keeping intelligence agents who committed crimes against Guantánamo prisoners out of jail. It makes heroes and heroines out of people who committed violent crimes against other people based on their race – something that has historical precedent….

   This also sets a dangerous precedent: we can be sure, with the “propaganda amendment” of the 2013 NDAA, just signed into law by the president, that the future will hold much more overt corruption of Hollywood and the rest of US pop culture. This amendment legalizes something that has been illegal for decades: the direct funding of pro-government or pro-military messaging in media, without disclosure, aimed at American citizens.

   The “historical precedent” that Klein refers to is Leni Riefenstahl, whose films glamorised the 3rd Re1ch.

   Actually I think the article points to something bigger than the corruption of one film maker. It’s about the corruption of the whole system, and the way the US authorities propagandise the entertainment industry.
   • felixviper 4.1

     6 January 2013 at 9:19 am

     Thanks for the link karol, but I ought to point out that it was the other Naomi who wrote it 😉

     I vaguely recall seeing a short doco – or maybe it was part of a larger doco – about this wider issue. It seems the military will provide incredible amounts of logistic and material support for films with a sympathetic tone or message. Need tanks? Jets? How about lots of muscle? Need your crew and equipment airlifted into a remote location? Pretty handy to have an army on hand.
     • karol 4.1.1

       6 January 2013 at 9:25 am

       Whoops. Thanks, felix. Yes – Wolf.
     • felixviper 4.1.2

       6 January 2013 at 9:42 am

       I think this is the film I was thinking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r20a7nHpnY
     • Rogue Trooper 4.1.3

       6 January 2013 at 1:36 pm

       that is correct
5. tazireviper 5

   6 January 2013 at 9:52 am

   Are Kiwis thicker than batshit?
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/8146954/Key-more-popular-than-McCaw-poll-finds
   • Rosie 5.1

     6 January 2013 at 10:45 am

     The answer is yes.
   • tc 5.2

     6 January 2013 at 10:53 am

     We’ve never been known as deep or considered, its the lack of public broadcasting and independent media that leave us with outlets with agendas to produce such results.

     When a shock jock racist and a rorting politician who passed acts that robbed communities of their assets get new years honours is this any surprise.

     Don’t be surprised if Deaker and Sharples are next.
     • Morrissey 5.2.1

       6 January 2013 at 7:33 pm

       Sir Garth McVicar.

       You read it here first.
   • Blue 5.3

     6 January 2013 at 12:13 pm

     Only 2.3% of those surveyed named Key as their favourite NZ ‘celebrity’. I think we can safely assume that zombies have not infiltrated the population.
     • Rosie 5.3.1

       6 January 2013 at 2:11 pm

       In answer to Tazireviper’s question “Are Kiwi’s thicker than batshit?” (The term is pigshit Mr P.M)The answer has to be YES.

       Not just in relation to yet another poll that bathes Shonkey in an adoring light. Read any of the reader comments on the Stuff site and you’ll start to have questions about our diminishing cognitive capacity. Check out the “Stuff nation” section and you’ll feel truly depressed. I get TC’s point about the lack of public broadcasting and a strong independant media but is a person not capable of thinking for themselves and asking questions? And if we were smart wouldn’t we be demanding more open and thought provoking media and not tuning into mind numbing “reality” shows? Are we so dumbed down that we even consider Shonkey in terms of celebrity? Sure he’s been modelled that way but we are the suckers for believing it.

       We are a country that not only voted once for National under Shonkey, but twice, even when the damage was blindingly obvious. To me that alone highlights our inability to think. It doesn’t have to be deep thinking – just regular plain old thinking would have done.

       During the second George Dubya reign I often used to wonder how stupid/blindly influenced the Americans could be for voting him back in (even taking on board the Florida rigging) and then I used to wonder what it must be like for those who didn’t support him who felt that his “leadership” was damaging their country (and those of the nations they invaded and or controlled). Living in NZ at this time feels like we are living in a void. Was this what it was like for the Americans? When we begin to reject our increasingly inane media and entertainment culture and as ordinary people begin to question is when we begin to get our power back
   • Tiresias 5.4

     6 January 2013 at 1:50 pm

     I’ve no time for either of them and wouldn’t know McCaw if I fell over him, but I think it would be a pretty sorry state of affairs if a man whose sole claim to fame is the ability to kick an inflated bladder in the right direction for entertainment was more popular than the Prime Minister of a nation state.
     • Populuxe1 5.4.1

       7 January 2013 at 11:08 pm

       And it’s exactly that sort of pointless elitist snobbery that makes the Left look ugly for a lot of potential supporters

       http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/14305/in_defense_of_the_spectacle/
6. rodel 6

   6 January 2013 at 10:46 am

   Relax.It’s actually the pollsters who are thick.
   (Nails are more popular than gerbils).
   • Fortran 6.1

     6 January 2013 at 12:59 pm

     +1
     • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1

       6 January 2013 at 4:23 pm

       + a gangnail; McCaw has been an Excellent Captain, a real hardman, imho. (a “brother” of mine is self-employed fixing pneumatic nail-guns, in fact, he has a boot full of new ones, generally under-cutting the franchisees) It has been my experience that if one can read the manual and has been shown the correct tool for the job we can fix any fu$k-up, or we could disproportionately Taser the mentally ill…
       • The Al1en 6.1.1.1

         6 January 2013 at 4:27 pm

         “Taser the mentally ill…”

         This party political election broadcast was bought to you by the conservative party.
         • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.1.1

           6 January 2013 at 6:01 pm

           apparently, the Tasers are in the “shop” being repaired alot; Communication Breakdown?
           • The Al1en 6.1.1.1.1.1

             6 January 2013 at 6:17 pm

             I bet judith collins has a can of mace in her handbag next to her emergency y fronts
             • Rogue Trooper …

               6 January 2013 at 6:32 pm

               love Leo
               https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537839_363900367041926_1588146299_n.jpg
               • The Al1en …

                 6 January 2013 at 6:41 pm

                 Always a tough crowd on comedy night at the standard 😆
                 • Rogue Trooper …

                   6 January 2013 at 7:25 pm

                   ^ ^ (he is funny, and very little swearing, from memory of tele)
7. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 7

   6 January 2013 at 10:48 am

   Economics again. Required listening for better understanding of the present day culture.
   On Radionz now Laidlaw interviewing a NZ economist.

   Related to book Behavioural Economics for Dummies.
8. Chris 8

   6 January 2013 at 11:05 am

   What’s with these little pop up polls that the Herald keeps running that Key keeps winning? Key more popular than Richie McCaw!!! Yea, good to know. Personally I don’t know anybody that has any time for our tedious little pm.
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   6 January 2013 at 11:18 am

   Britain’s education system is being tested to destruction

   What lies behind this hyperactivity? Critics accuse the government of softening up the sector for privatisation. But the education secretary, Michael Gove, and the universities minister, David Willetts, insist that ensuring accountability for taxpayers’ money and driving up academic standards are their goals. Gove’s own fogeyish style completes the picture of the old-fashioned, no-nonsense grammar school headmaster. But the government is not simply stuck in 1950s “3Rism”, nor is it planning wholesale privatisation (yet). Rather, it is still stubbornly pursuing a discredited 1980s ideology of quasi-markets, even though 30 years of experience shows that far from improving quality, it is destroying it.

   And our government is doing exactly the same thing so, why are conservatives so intent on destroying education?
   • millsy 9.1

     6 January 2013 at 2:46 pm

     Right-wingers in the UK (especially columnists in the Daily Mail – a publication which balances a call for ‘family values’ with a peddling of a rather high concentration of sleaze), routinely call for a return of the Tripartite System with the Grammar School taking precedence.

     To which my response is: What about those who get dumped in the secondary moderns?
10. Dr Terry 10

    6 January 2013 at 11:47 am

    The Conservatives fear a well educated and informed populace. People might actually think, gain insight, and ask far too many awkward questions (let alone make enlightened demands).
    • Tiresias 10.1

      6 January 2013 at 2:05 pm

      Dr. Terry’s reply presupposes a sinister conspiracy by a cabal who are aware that their fundamental beliefs won’t stand up to scrutiny but respond by acting to pull the wool over everyone else’s eyes.

      Einstein famously defined insanity as doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. These people merely still firmly believe that their ideas and philosophy although discredited by experience will work if only conditions are different or the implementation is tweaked at the edges, ie they are insane rather than mendacious. A much simpler explanation.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        6 January 2013 at 2:57 pm

        That may be true of many of those who support conservative parties but it’s not true of all of them. Some of them will be looking to prevent a proper education that encourages people to think about what’s actually happening. These few will most likely be the leaders in the conservative parties. Research has shown that the majority of leaders in conservative parties and business happen to be psychopaths.
        • Tiresias 10.1.1.1

          6 January 2013 at 4:20 pm

          “Research has shown that the majority of leaders in conservative parties and business happen to be psychopaths.”

          As you haven’t provided any authority for this statement I cannot weigh the veracity of the claim, but off the top of my head think it unlikely to be true. I would be more willing to accept a proposal that “the majority of leaders…’ &tc are sociopaths.

          The difference? Psychopaths = “Tendency for impulsive or opportunistic criminal behavior, excessive risk taking, impulsive or opportunistic violence. Unable to maintain normal relationships.” Sociopaths = “Tendency for premeditated crimes with controllable risks, criminal opportunism, fraud, calculated or opportunistic violence. Tendency to appear superficially normal in social relationships, often social predators.”

          By that definition Sociopaths I suggest are far more common that Psychopaths and I don’t see any reason why sociopathic behaviour should be a phenomenon limited to the Right, although the great unwashed would more likely accept TV drama displaying Sociopathic behaviour by bankers and Psychopathic behaviour by the residents of State housing.

          In any cause I would argue your basic premise is wrong in that I don’t see many societies or countries around the world where an ill-educated and ‘repressed’ populace regularly votes in and supports rich Right-wing elites – at least where they get the chance to vote.

          In fact I would suggest that it is the Right which benefits from a well-educated and socially mobile poplace. The reason the Left virtually doesn’t exist in the US despite its relatively well-educated population is that the Right represents what most people aspire to – ie being rich.
          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.1

            6 January 2013 at 5:56 pm

            As you haven’t provided any authority for this statement I cannot weigh the veracity of the claim…

            It was a book I read years ago by one of the better known sociologists – Robert Hare I believe but I could be misremembering.

            In any cause I would argue your basic premise is wrong in that I don’t see many societies or countries around the world where an ill-educated and ‘repressed’ populace regularly votes in and supports rich Right-wing elites – at least where they get the chance to vote.

            It’s all about perception and the perception being built by this government and the one in the UK is that they’re making education better.

            In fact I would suggest that it is the Right which benefits from a well-educated and socially mobile poplace.

            Nope as has been pointed out. A well educated populace that thinks (really important that bit) will pull down the neo-liberal BS and, eventually, capitalism as well. A populace that’s only taught to the test fails to learn to think and thus can’t as easily pick out the logical holes in the capitalist paradigm.

            And there isn’t a hell of a lot of social mobility going on either. In fact, it’s been declining for a long time and even more so after the neo-liberal policies were brought in.

            The reason the Left virtually doesn’t exist in the US despite its relatively well-educated population is that the Right represents what most people aspire to – ie being rich.

            ~50% of the populace in the US doesn’t vote and half of those don’t vote for the Republicans. This would indicate that most people aren’t all that enthused with the right (of course, there’s not a hell of a lot of difference between the Democrats and the Republicans).
            • TheContrarian 10.1.1.1.1.1

              6 January 2013 at 6:48 pm

              [delete]

              [B:- you were banned for a week on Tuesday. This is only Sunday.]
              • TheContrarian …

                6 January 2013 at 10:19 pm

                Sweeping claims with no factual basis, that cannot be evidenced outside of “I read it once, in some book by this guy, but I can’t remember however it must be totally legit because it adheres to my preconceived bias” are far more offensive than any swear word I can lay down.

                Use your heads. Logic works.
          • Rogue Trooper 10.1.1.1.2

            6 January 2013 at 6:06 pm

            This Old Chestnut
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_Anxiety
            Bonkers!
            (however, from small acorns grow mighty folks)
    • halfcrown 10.2

      6 January 2013 at 8:53 pm

      You are so right. Just been reading about Tebbet. What a fucking arsole The Tories do not want a well educated inquiring populace. I have also recently read about the Falklands war. This could have been easily fixed by negotiation, but Thatcher the evil cow knowing that she would lose the next election decided to invade the Falklands. She knew, by using and aided by the British MSM mainly that heap of filth called the Daily Express and using the “Rule Britannia, The Sun Will Never Set on the British Empire” bullshit cards she would win the next election. To her the “Falklands “was a gift from heaven” and a “Get Out of Jail” card. To enhance the “Rule Britannia” bullshit she awarded some prat in charge of a state of the art submarine a “decoration” for sinking a clapped out rusty tub full of sea cadets called the General Belgrano. The stupid poms fell for the “Rule Britannia” bullshit hook line and bloody sinker. and at the next election they voted for her with a landslide victory. To me this was like some medieval king putting on a show to get the peasants on his side to fight a war. This is why the right are shit scared of a well educated populace and do their best to dumb us down. We see this in the MSM with bite sized bits of information with no
      indepth inquiries or discussions. If the populace are well educated they will not believe all they read in the excuses for papers or what they see on Fox News. They will ask questions, they will not believe the right wing bullshit. It is not in the interest of the fucking right to have people well educated as they will ask “why”, “how”, and “what for” and more importantly “is that the truth” .
11. AC 11

    6 January 2013 at 11:47 am

    They don’t want a well educated and informed society. National would like the opposite. A society of uneducated, individual self centered citizens so it can maintain power and create a cheap labour force.
    The rich get richer and poor get poorer.
12. Rogue Trooper 12

    6 January 2013 at 12:53 pm

    yaaaaay, out of “jail”;

    RNZ
    -Rape Crisis facing funding crisis, tenuous, may have to close doors as they compete for Grants with sports clubs
    -S.A-in S.Auck accommadation suppl maxed out Big time (rentiers on imported subsidized steroids)
    there was more but I heard the Machine Gun Blues and had Georgias on my mind (Wow, what a soothing voice of voluptuosness; exceelent bait to capture the drosophila)

    If we deliberately keep on with apostasy after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for missing the mark is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or more witnesses. How much more do you think a person deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son under his foot?

    The Lord will judge His people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were pubicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions (unless of course, solar activity fries all the data) 🙂

    So do not throw away your confidence, it will be richly rewarded.

    Habakkuk- Yet, my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.

    -Kotter

    1:5 Look at the nations and watch-and be utterly amazed. For I am going to do something in your days that you would not believe, even if you were told. I am raising up the Babylonians, that ruthless and impetuous people, who sweep across the whole earth to seize dwelling places not their own; they are a law unto themselves and promote their own honour; Their horses are swifter than Leopards; Their cavalry gallops Headlong; They fly like a vulture swooping to devour; Their hordes advance like a Desert Storm and gather prisoners like sand; Guilty men whose own strength is their god.

    Bi noculars see beyond the foreground to what is in the background circling the wagon trains.

    -Franklin (J.C)
    • Tiresias 12.1

      6 January 2013 at 2:13 pm

      “RNZ
      -Rape Crisis facing funding crisis, tenuous, may have to close doors as they compete for Grants with sports clubs.”

      Yeah for a while some time ago I was a member of our local REAP committee, ’til I left in despair and disgust at the amount of money that was being voted by my fellow members to what were little more than Maori social clubs while the Rape Crisis Centers, Charities for the Disabled, Legal Aid Centers, &tc went begging.

      “Yet, my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.” The reason many righteous ones have hit the buttons on their padded jackets.
      • millsy 12.1.1

        6 January 2013 at 2:18 pm

        What’s a ‘REAP’ committee??

        (Sorry for my ignorance).
        • Tiresias 12.1.1.1

          6 January 2013 at 4:34 pm

          “Rural Education Activities Programme”.

          There are 13 REAPs in New Zealand. Each REAP is a locally -based Incorporated Society or Trust. The Ministry of Education and the Tertiary Education Commission are the main sources of funding. The overall purpose of REAP is to provide educational support to early childhood centres, primary, secondary schools and community groups. REAP promotes and provides learning opportunities that enhance community and personal development.”

          Each year we had a couple of $100,000 to distribute to applicants – nothing like enough to meet the needs of a Province, with ‘community groups’ the widest and most ‘flexible’ catagory. I found the sums allocated to a dozen or more Mari and half a dozen Te Reo set-ups in an area with a miniscule Maori population while charities filling desperate needs were refused – some like Refuges and Rape Crisis on the grounds that they weren’t ‘community groups’ – disgusted me, but it was just a personal matter of priorities.
          • bad12 12.1.1.1.1

            6 January 2013 at 7:18 pm

            Would it be impolite of me to suggest that you are full of s**t???, i will not ask you to name any of the recipients of the REAP funds but it would be helpful to know which region you are talking of,

            So, in this miniscule Maori population there were at least half a dozen Kohanga with bugger all kids in each being given REAP funding???,

            Please ennumerate what you consider to be a miniscule Maori population, and last but not least, what exactly is a Mari???…
          • bad12 12.1.1.1.2

            6 January 2013 at 7:29 pm

            PS, your whine has as it’s answer the Mission Statement of REAP that you yourself posted above, and i don’t personally see where ‘vote Education’ should be considered as a source of funding for ‘Rape Crisis’ which should be funded from ‘vote health’…
            • Tiresias 12.1.1.1.2.1

              6 January 2013 at 10:39 pm

              Yes. You make exactly the points I had to fight for several years before I gave up in disgust.

              The problem lies with the definitions of “community groups” and “personal development” – or rather the lack of definition we had to work with and the refusal of the officers to provide any guidance. Hence “community groups” was taken by the majority on the committee as meaning “local community groups” so that anything with any national structure was refused ab initio regardless of the fact that the local ‘branch’ or whatever provided services to the local community, was staffed by local volunteers or barely-paid workers and was expected to raise most of its own funds. And “personal development” was vague practically anything could be made to qualify – after all, working to bring down your handicap at golf is “personal development”.

              I took and fought for the unpopular view that helping someone get over being raped, or to escape an abusive relationship, or get compensation for an unjustified dismissal &tc, was a necessary first step for them even to begin any kind of “personal development” but, as you pointed out, this is strictly speaking someone else’s financial responsibility and the fact that the funding provided is totally insufficient is a simple matter of inefficient bureaucracy.

              No, I won’t say where it was. However I did also have to fight a prevailing view that if we gave money to one Marae we had to give the same to all of them to avoid appearing more supportive of some over others, or if we gave $10,000 to someone undertaking to teach Te Reo in their front room we had to give $10,000 to anyone undertaking to teach Te Reo in their front room with no way whatever of ascertaining the efficacy of such teaching, nor how many children actually benefitted from it.

              REAP does a lot of good and the fights I had probably affected no more than 20% if the money distributed at most, and I resigned because it had merely become apparent that my priorities in some areas differed from the majority of the committee and the half-day I occasionally gave up for the process was a waste of my time.
              • bad12 …

                7 January 2013 at 6:38 am

                Your answer to my queries is simply a continuance of a series of unsupported allegations directed at Kohanga Reo and Marae,

                You provide nothing in the way of ‘facts’ just broaden your unsupported allegations to include ‘giving $10,000 to someone undertaking to teach Maori language ‘in their front room’,

                The ‘problem’ as you put it does not lie with the definitions of ‘community group’ and ‘personal development’, when i read those 2 phrases in conjunction with the stated intention of REAP as per EDUCATION it doesn’t take a intellectual giant to figure out the linkages between the 3, education, personal development, and community group,

                An example of the above paragraph is a Wellington Marae that takes groups of youths through road safety courses and onto gaining their driving licenses, this fulfills all the REAP aims, it is a community group providing education which leads to the personal development of those involved, really simple if you think about it,

                I however get the impression from your series of unsupported allegations,(i would have used the word bullshit,but, i am trying to be polite), that you are deliberately using the hot potato of ‘Rape Crisis’ funding along with the even more spurious ‘get compensation for unjustified dismissal’ as props in what appears to be an anti-Maori
                rant in the hope that you will gain support from people here at the Standard via the support those who read these pages have for both those who are unjustifiably dismissed from employment and Rape Crisis/Womens Refuges…
13. Rogue Trooper 13

    6 January 2013 at 4:41 pm

    it is all there in read white and black,
    C.K Stead y
    Future going bananas in Pluto’s banana republic.Goofy
    Chinese Leaders embrace simplicity
    Arabian nights as autumn fall; Suunis do not Shia divide
    In Israel religious communities drive the golf course; Likud licked, another Bennett on the Right
    (60,000 deaths in Syria, and counting on a Moscow plan)
    “Currency Wars” pass the parcel to more victims of Europa and Bay of Piigs
    anxiety ridden children cohorts sky-rocketing over-diagnosis and under-Amelioration of socio-cultural stimulants; Armoured clothes next one hit wonder?
    NZQA failing dropouts passed over
    Michael’s growing his own and I dig it. Sur l’herbe!
14. aj 14

    6 January 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Heat’s on for later summer break

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8146816/Heats-on-for-later-summer-break

    “Although the average temperatures for January and February are the same at 22 degrees, the average rainfall is considerably less in February than in January, with 19mm less rain. In January the average number of rain days is 8.2. In February it is 7.5”

    What I find astounding in this article is that no-one seems to account for February being 3 days shorter than January (except in leap years when it is 2 day shorter)

    Thus rainfall and raindays for February are being counted in a month that is around 10% shorter than January.

    Allow for that 10% and the case that weather is ‘better’ in February is shown to be largely an urban myth born out of simple ignorance of the length of these two summer months.
    • Bill 14.1

      6 January 2013 at 5:45 pm

      (Business NZ chief executive Phil) O’Reilly had spoken to several Americans who underwent a similar process for their Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays and found it difficult to motivate themselves through the period.

      Yeah. Cause…cause…fck, I can’t even make anything up. What is/was O’Reilly on?
15. Rogue Trooper 15

    6 January 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Positively Discriminating
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discrimination#New_Zealand.
    playing catch-up when we acknowledge the Power of language and culture; after all that
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology
    makes sense Tooby Cosmic
16. Colonial Viper 16

    6 January 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing

    An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XssrFqWF0
    • Rogue Trooper 16.1

      6 January 2013 at 7:22 pm

      just in case “any body” wonders why? the Rogue holds the positions he does, it came about through dedicated reading, life experience, tertiary education, film, literature, and watching documentaries on the variety that exists in our world,(including on the production of food, apparel and other commodities for Years. Years! (i may be one-eyed, yet I keep one eye open) and then came The Standard and you guys, you guys. Like D., I too am a critical realist and I believe it is healthy to discuss “religion”, politics, and sociology in an open forum; thanks to an inspirational woman, (a nurse) I was taught that “the more windows you open, the more light we let in”; however, despite my “critical” gaze, i still believe we are well placed here in Aotearoa New Zealand to muddle through this inevitable storm, padded cells or not.(and although we have different styles, i do respect Cameron), what do I know, I’m just a gardener 🙂 (we are thinking of precis ing back issues of Best Practice; this medication of society is, as a generalization, not healthy, and I have personal relationships with G.P’s who suggest that diet / lifestyle is what is making people unwell (as a generalization) which is ironic when we consider the importance of ‘lifestyle’ to most of us. As Draco once exflamed, the economic system /s we are living under are exploitative and wasteful and sadly we live in the times when those ‘chickens’ are coming home to roost.Dreadful when we consider the BLiP compilation. I also watched parliament consistently live and was astounded at the behaviour and attitudes of many, though clearly there are many well meaning politicians.And the cognitive behaviouralists, don’t get me started (some Lorries are just too light for logging, and they wear out…
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy
      is something worth discussing though 🙂
17. Rogue Trooper 17

    6 January 2013 at 7:55 pm

    p.s I hope C.S has read and concurred with C.K Stead

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