Open mike 06/03/2013

80 comments on “Open mike 06/03/2013 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   6 March 2013 at 6:43 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10869480

   Busy body central in this morning’s Herald.
   • felixviper 1.1

     6 March 2013 at 8:29 am

     Oh FFS that headline is stupid. It’s not a “legal loophole” at all, it’s just not illegal.

     It’s like saying “man gets away with walking in a park due to legal loophole”
     • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 1.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 8:41 am

       A legal loophole today prevented police from prosecuting a man eating a doughnut in broad daylight. The legal loophole was confirmed by a police spokesman, who confirmed that eating baked goods in the middle of the day was not an offence.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 10:44 am

         +1 😈
     • Lanthanide 1.1.2

       6 March 2013 at 1:24 pm

       “”While it is not illegal, police do not encourage people to drink alcohol while driving and they would certainly stop them and check their alcohol consumption,” said Ms Richardson.”

       And this is equally stupid talk from the cop. Why didn’t they say “police discourage people”?
   • tc 1.2

     6 March 2013 at 10:24 am

     Great to know we can carry on the OZ tradition of ‘A Traveller’ legally, good to see granny focusing on the big issues.
   • QoT 1.3

     6 March 2013 at 6:09 pm

     “A couple who have watched far too many US-made police dramas were stunned to discover that the New Zealand legal system isn’t just like it is on Special Victims Unit”.
2. KhandallaViper 2

   6 March 2013 at 7:00 am

   Priceless.
   It is a great way to wind up stuffed shirts and tut-tutting old dears in other cars.

   At traffic lights have you window down, arm resting on the door, take a gulp out of a bottle of Lion Red, give them a naughty/letcherous wink and ask them if they want a swig too!
   A great way to start a weekend in a good mood.
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     6 March 2013 at 8:13 am

     Need AC/DC cranking out of all speakers
     • mickysavage 2.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 8:32 am

       Have you ever been out West Auckland CV? Some people think it is compulsory …
       • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 9:11 am

         lol…indeed, I drove by DC’s electorate office a couple of weeks ago with the sounds cranking…”when in Rome” 😀
         • Colonial Weka 2.1.1.1.1

           6 March 2013 at 10:13 am

           I would have played The Animals: We Gotta Get Out of This Place…
         • mickysavage 2.1.1.1.2

           6 March 2013 at 11:48 am

           What about Coldplay’s “Paradise”?
   • vto 2.2

     6 March 2013 at 8:55 am

     I’m surprised people are surprised. But then again, I’m not really surprised as so many people do so little thinking. Most people just follow the popular girls around, which only achieves…. well, um ….. not sure actually …. nothing.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1

       6 March 2013 at 10:50 am

       But then again, I’m not really surprised as so many people do so little thinking.

       Actually, I’m thinking that’s a case of people doing too much thinking. They don’t like something and think that it should be illegal and so decide that it is. And then act as if it is and then get surprised and upset when they find out that it isn’t.

       I now wouldn’t be surprised if National put through an emergency law change making it illegal to drink while driving.
       • Tim 2.2.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 11:10 am

         no no …. they’ll pass a law not only making it illegal, but conscripting them into the army. Show ’em some discipline! Those pesky beneficiaries could also be drafted in the same way (to make them productive).
         still …. we should not be giving them original ideas outside of their learned ideology and dogma
       • geoff 2.2.1.2

         6 March 2013 at 1:48 pm

         I now wouldn’t be surprised if National put through an emergency law change making it illegal to drink while driving.

         Coffee wouldn’t let it happen.
         • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2.1

           6 March 2013 at 4:35 pm

           😆
       • Descendant Of Sssmith 2.2.1.3

         6 March 2013 at 6:13 pm

         I now wouldn’t be surprised if National put through an emergency law change making it illegal to drink while driving.

         Only if you’re a beneficiary. You shouldn’t be drinking if you are a beneficiary. Wasting tax payers money.

         Hang on though you are driving and drinking. Wasting tax payers money on a car……

         What you have shoes?
   • ropata 2.3

     6 March 2013 at 4:16 pm

     your plan doesn’t work if you’re driving a Ford
     Holden all the way bro.. 🙂
3. Draco T Bastard 3

   6 March 2013 at 7:25 am

   With threats and bribes, Gove forces schools to accept his phoney ‘freedom’

   This is a story about England’s schools, but it could just as well describe the razing of state provision throughout the world. In the name of freedom, public assets are being forcibly removed from popular control and handed to unelected oligarchs.

   All over England, schools are being obliged to become academies: supposedly autonomous bodies which are often “sponsored” (the government’s euphemism for controlled) by foundations established by exceedingly rich people. The break-up of the education system in this country, like the dismantling of the NHS, reflects no widespread public demand. It is imposed, through threats, bribes and fake consultations, from on high.

   Sounds exactly like what is happening to NZs schools courtesy of this government.
   • marsman 3.1

     6 March 2013 at 8:41 am

     That is no doubt why Parata is rounding off her Europe trip with a visit to England to assess the damage there so she can emulate it here.
4. North 4

   6 March 2013 at 7:34 am

   Stuff.co.nz this morning – “Parata ignored Education Ministry warning”. (Christchurch)

   No. Key and Joyce ignored Education Ministry warnings. Just not interested. “We’ll do what WE want to do. Period.”

   The morning on which she wakes up as plain old Lady Gardiner draws closer. Oh the shame.

   Not for Key though. Lauded for decisiveness by his puppies in the media he’ll be happy as. The story about the story will be bigger than the story. Mr Bean’s cousin Gower probably has what he fancies is a definitive one-liner already written.

   Key’s denial that his gushing acolyte Parata is cannon fodder was a Freudian lie.
   • vto 4.1

     6 March 2013 at 8:49 am

     Yep she ignored advice that the demographics were still changing in Chch post-earthquake and that the changes needed to wait to see where those demographics settled.

     Pretty fucking obvious.

     So why have they not done that? Why have they barged ahead?
     • Tim 4.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 12:18 pm

       To think a quarter of a century ago, I almost bought a house off her ‘better half’ alongside a wife that was a little smarter than Hekia. There goes a lucky escape! I’m glad I trust my instincts especially as I write, that eternal sage of the 4th Estate (ONE Network News) reports that the U.S. “Stoke Exchange” has reached an ALL TIME high, not seen since the GFC. I’m not sure they see the significance in what they just pronounced either.
       And here we have the NaCts puffing up the benefits of esset sales … those mum in dead vestas should have confdince … that same sort of confdince they had in all those finance companies that went tits-up (pardon the expression QoT but it is actually the image I want to portray – as in those with tits being on the bottom bunk in every sense) – substitute expression as you see fit (perhaps instead of mum in dead vestas – substitute “soft-cocks”)
5. muzza 5

   6 March 2013 at 8:34 am

   Qatari emir buys six Greek islands for a song

   “They have a fund with a couple of hundred million in it,” enthused Kassianos, a former US economics professor who assumed the mayorship of Homer’s fabled isle three years ago. “And as far as I know they want to buy all 18 of the islands, the whole lot.

   “There is a stupid law because in Greece we do everything upside down</B," lamented Kassianos. "That law says that whatever the size of your land, your home can be no bigger than 250 sq m. The emir has reacted to this saying his WC is 250 sq m and his kitchen alone has to be 1,000 sq m, because otherwise how is he going to feed all his guests?"

   To appease the locals, the Qatari, who is also being heavily courted by the government to invest in Greece, has promised to come bearing gifts. “His people said ‘what present can we give you?’ and I said the island needs water desperately,” said Kassianos. “A study to lay a pipeline from the mainland is already under way. That’s not bad when we’ve been trying to get a new port here for the past 40 years.”

   No words really!
6. xtasy 6

   6 March 2013 at 8:38 am

   Welfare reforms and health sector reforms: How the dots can be joined together –

   In 2007 and 2008 the National Party repeatedly fed the media with selected few stories about „GP bullying“ – by claimants of the sickness benefit. Work and Income’s Principal Health Advisor Dr Bratt seemed to grab that topic up quite willingly then. Now though it seems GPs get “bullied” (or rather “convinced to do”) what MSD and WINZ under the present government want them to do.

   Since National’s been in government, they’ve appointed and promote selected professional people into key jobs in the public health and welfare sectors. Most, if not all, appear to be resolute proponents for adopting a “firm” approach to health care and welfare. It can all be sourced back to similar moves made in the UK under the auspices of Professor Mansel Aylward, former UK DWP Chief Medical Officer, now consulting MSD and at least one NZ Health Board. He’s still in charge of a department at Cardiff University.

   These key persons are resolutely pushing ahead with an already decided agenda behind the scenes, by bringing in changes in training, recruiting, lobbying and influencing existing and prospective medical practitioners and other health professionals. The welfare reforms before Parliament are just part of the greater agenda. The Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act is largely only intended to deliver the “framework” for the UK system in welfare and work capacity assessments done by selected medical professionals, that is intended to be introduced. The Select Committee process with hearing submissions is likely to change little, like with other bills the NatACT government has hammered through already.

   Here are another abundance of sources for info that can enlighten readers:
   http://www.nzohna.org.nz/uploaded/Dr%20David%20Beaumont%20New%20Horizons%2013%209%202012.pdf
   (Presentation by Dr David Beaumont: ‘Welfare Reform in New Zealand – Relevance to the Workplace‘‚ as part of a forum called ‘New Horizons: Rebuilding Health and Safety on Solid Ground’; Christchurch 13 September 2012)

   http://www.fitforwork.co.nz/dr-david-beaumonts-message-to-doctors-conference-medical-certification-can-be-fraught-with-problems-for-gps
   (Presenting at the General Practice Conference and Medical Exhibition of 11-12 June 2011, Fit For Work Medical Director Dr David Beaumont emphasised the vital role of New Zealand GPs in “helping” their patients return to work)

   http://www.fitforwork.co.nz/david-beaumont-and-colleagues-presenting-on-health-benefits-of-work
   (“News” fr. “Fit For Work”, by Dr D. Beaumont, featuring Kevin Morris, Director, ACC, at a forum organised by AFOEM and the Royal Australasian College of Physicians; 12.05.2012)

   http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/david-beaumont/2a/780/943
   (Linked In page of Dr Beaumont, formerly also working for ‘Atos Origin Healthcare’ in the UK. He’s been promoting the UK style medical and work capacity tests for many years; he’s also been advising MSD here in NZ)

   http://www.wellnz.co.nz/about_us/press_release_details.asp?pressID=36&bhcp=1
   (On the Australasian Faculty of Occupational and Environmental Medicine’s release of a new position paper, entitled “Realising the health benefits of work.”, 25.05.2010; see the known persons involved!!!)

   http://www.healthworkforce.govt.nz/about-us/board-members
   (Dr Des Gorman, well known from his advisory role to ACC for many years, and for some highly controversial recommendations. He’s now also “boss” of ‘Health Work Force NZ’, set up to develop recruitment and training strategies for health sector employees in the NZ health sector)

   http://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/faculty/staffct/staff_details.aspx?staffID=64676F72303130
   (Dr Des Gorman, Associate Dean at the Medical School of Auckland Uni)

   http://wellsaid.co.nz/inside-acc/prof-des-gorman-delighted-to-join-acc-board/
   (now Dr Gorman is also sitting on the ACC Board, appointed by guess whom? Paula Rebstock! I am wondering, whether he is also still on the ‘National Health Board’)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QknNdOhOkr8
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCecwuwCHb4
   (2 older TV documentaries on ACC cases involving Dr Gorman, referring to “illness belief” and mental health as reasons for otherwise “physical” suffering)

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6930331/Rebstock-appointment-to-welfare-reform-board-concerns (stuff.co.nz on the appointment of P. Rebstock as Welfare Board chairperson)

   http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-medical-professionals
   Paula Bennett’s speech to medical professionals, informing on the new welfare reforms, 26.09.12)

   Professor Mansel Aylward – 2 links with 2 views on his work and medical “research”:
   https://hcml.co.uk/?p=200
   http://downwithallthat.wordpress.com/category/dubious-academics-universities/cardiff-university/

   http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/GP%20CME/Friday/C1%201515%20Bratt-Hawker.pdf
   (and let us not forget our “dear” MSD and WINZ Principal Health Advisor, Dr David Bratt, who likes to compare benefit dependence with drug dependence)
   • johnm 6.1

     6 March 2013 at 9:18 am

     +1 Thankyou XTASY. They’re attacking everything that made NZ a decent place to live.
     • David H 6.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 1:38 pm

       And Labour is just sitting there silent as usual
     • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.2

       6 March 2013 at 2:52 pm

       +1
   • Olwyn 6.2

     6 March 2013 at 9:44 am

     When I read your comments Xtasy, I wonder if these designated doctors are open to being struck off, or at least, reprimanded, in cases where their zeal puts a patient’s life or health in danger.

     Also, the cutting of the sole parent benefit in Australia once the youngest child turns eight has drawn criticism from the UN as a violation of human rights.

     http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/govt-silent-on-poverty-report-acoss/story-fn3dxiwe-1226589883703

     Gillard is dismissing the report here, but someone I spoke to on the phone last night said that it now looks as if the UN attention might cause a partial back down on her part.
     • Colonial Viper 6.2.1

       6 March 2013 at 9:48 am

       Gillard is in a very weak position in Oz. Stupid Labour politicians trying to appear more Right Wing ahead of elections. Is this a disease they all come down with?
       • muzza 6.2.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 9:59 am

         Come on CV, you what the *disease* is!
       • Olwyn 6.2.1.2

         6 March 2013 at 10:03 am

         Yes I would love to know what is driving this, since it is destroying centre-left parties all over the western world. Is it fear? Addiction to keeping one’s place among those in the know? Touting for corporate donations? Something else? Certainly the powerful have got a firm hold on the economic steering wheel, but that does not mean they must go unchallenged.
         • muzza 6.2.1.2.1

           6 March 2013 at 4:46 pm

           Hi Olwyn,

           Its not fear or addiction, its a desire to control every aspect of human existence, via the corrupted individuals who masquerade as public servants, in NZ, and elsewhere.

           The mesh of international legal treaties, agreements, and other *signed into* contracts, mean that there is likely very few people who have any idea of what NZ (as a so called sovereign nations), *obligations* to foreign entities are. We get to see many the results of the obligations, played out via *policy* and *reforms*, that much is certain.

           When these international treaties, agreements and contracts, are underlayed by the thousands of domestic statutes, bills etc, how it is possible to have a clue about who is controlling what, as it relates to NZ!

           It takes incredible power to engineer the social/financial breakdowns we witness around the world, and at home in NZ, power that many don’t/can’t accept exists.

           In order to *defend*, first you have to know who/what your attacker is, only then can a hopeful strategy be formed!
       • Tim 6.2.1.3

         6 March 2013 at 11:56 am

         Well part of it is when the likes of Dastiari? who’s come from a background of living hell gain influence, and who hold that “we don’t know how lucky we are” attitude. In my day …. etc., etc., etc.
         And Gillard is supposed to be part of Labor’s left FFS! Tell me where that definition fits!
         LABOR (Oz) dropped the “U” in Labour, and as far as I can see, Labour NZ is well on the way to doing likewise.
       • tc 6.2.1.4

         6 March 2013 at 7:43 pm

         Gillard is toast it appears, made a mess of Kev’s mining tax dumbing it down so that after all the angst it’s pretty much offset by tax credits and generating SFA extra tax revenue.

         So make way for the barking mad Abbott and his bunch of Costellos.
     • xtasy 6.2.2

       6 March 2013 at 10:18 am

       Olwyn –

       In principle a ‘designated doctor’ paid by MSD or WINZ has to abide to the rules set out in the Code of Ethics of the NZ Medical Association, to which Medical Council members bind themselves.

       There are also these publications by the Medical Council that are of relevance:

       http://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/News-and-Publications/Statements/Non-treating-doctors.pdf
       (see particularly points 23 and 24, which may well limit the chance of taking such a practitioner to the Health and Disability Commissioner; see: http://www.hdc.org.nz/)

       It is absolutely recommended to bring a support person along, to take notes and be a witness if any questions may arise after an “examination”. But then the following needs to be taken note of:

       http://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/News-and-Publications/Statements/When-another-person-is-present-during-a-consultation.pdf

       Many WINZ clients sadly fail to prepare well, go unaccompanied and ill prepared, and in some cases it can be like going as a lamb to the slaughter.

       Bear in mind, the H+D Commissioner only usually looks closer and investigates about one out of ten complaints. In most cases doctors over-stepping their duties and responsibilities, and breaching code and law in some way, will not be struck off, but just be warned, I would presume.

       Only very serious cases may succeed to be taken to a Tribunal or court, and then it is all dependent on evidence and strength of submissions. Most beneficiaries would already feel over-stressed just preparing a strong case of complaint to the HDC Office.

       What they are doing under Future Focus and the Dr Bratt led “mentoring”, “liaising with” and even “training” of GPs as designated doctors is certainly raising major legal issues already.
       • AsleepWhileWalking 6.2.2.1

         6 March 2013 at 2:59 pm

         Hi there,

         Just a note to point out that under earlier commissioner Ron Patterson, the HDC investigated around 40% of reported complaints (breaches of the Health and Disabilities Code).

         In more recent times this number has dwindled to less than 10%. [ Sorry don’t have a ref but my friend was talking about someone’s research into this a couple of years ago. Since then it may have lowered even more.]

         You can see this reduction by the number of cases the HDC reports by year on their website which have dropped off under the new commissioner, but the number of complaints have risen.
   • Treetop 6.3

     6 March 2013 at 10:01 am

     The level of stress for those on sickness and invalid benefit may actually be causing people to become dependent on drugs, alcohol, gambling and increasing family violence due to the pressure which Work and Income are creating.

     The cost of housing is dragging the unemployed and the employed down and some are actually clinically depressed. People who work are dependent on WFF and other supplements, not just those who are on a main benefit.

     Addressing why a person is on a benefit is the starting point.
     • AsleepWhileWalking 6.3.1

       6 March 2013 at 3:08 pm

       I have personal experience of this when I was shifted by a new GP from IB back to sickness. As soon as the “pressure” began my condition began to worsen and I became increasingly disorientated and dissociated until I could barely function at all. Thankfully I eventually was placed back on IB but I live with the fear that it could happen again.

       Anyone who works with me (treatment providers) know that I’m doing everything I can. I want to work because frankly it is more than money, it is a relief to belong and be with people who aren’t constantly assessing your mental state and noting down every move.

       Badgering me to, “get a job, get a job get a job..”, – **WE KNOW!** doesn’t make it faster.

       It’s a big like having an all knowing big brother continuously telling you what is best for you and how you should do it, except I can’t break the family bondage regardless of where I move to in the country or how many times I change my number.

       What would be really helpful is if they listened to my treatment providers and did everything they could to support costs applied for rather than looking for ways to decline them. It would also help if they stayed away from me as much as possible because they are a direct cause of stress and ongoing disempowerment.
       • Treetop 6.3.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 4:06 pm

         Work and Income are generally oblivious to worsening a situation. Worse still is when a psychiatrist talks through his arse.

         I know what it is like to feel disconnected, commenting on the Standard does have a therapeutic value re connecting. Time and time again I see comments from people who give a damn about the type of society we live in and the direction it is going in.
       • xtasy 6.3.1.2

         6 March 2013 at 4:08 pm

         AsleepWhileWalking –

         Re what you wrote above:
         “What would be really helpful is if they listened to my treatment providers and did everything they could to support costs applied for rather than looking for ways to decline them. It would also help if they stayed away from me as much as possible because they are a direct cause of stress and ongoing disempowerment.”

         You are absolutely right, and I have been through similar experiences with a designated doctor assessment some time back, and a following MAB appeal hearing, that was already “tainted” with the new staunch “Future Focus” (“Future Fuckup”) ideology. They were meant to look rather at what I “could do” than what I “could not do”. So they pulled out some hypothetical kind of BS presumptions and claimed that such activities could be done in a job for at least 15 hours a week.

         This is now happening to hundreds if not thousands of reviewed IB cases, and also are Sickness Benefit recipients increasingly considered “fit” to do at least some part time training or work.

         They (MSD, WINZ and their chosen doctors) are walking an extremely thight rope there, as hypothetical work is purely speculative, and also have some scientific reports found, that GPs (who are mostly relied on as “designated doctors”) are generally not well qualified at all to make competent assessments on mentally ill for instance (apart from the personal bias many have).

         Some more interesting info on all this:
         http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/rethink/article/rethink-mental-illness-new-gp-survey-shows-government-welfare
         http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478286
         http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951586/

         Yet I would always still rather trust my own GP, or another truly NEUTRAL GP, than any of the “trained” and at least moderately biased “designated doctors” they mostly use. And re treatment and support, the actual specialists that know their work, they should be involved for sure.

         So imagine the horror scenario where they will have separate work capability assessments designed by MSD, besides of medical practitioners and the likes in future. That is what they are intending to bring in, to have WINZ Health and Disability Advisors and also “outsourced” providers do the assessing. We will have the same kinds of suicides and other deaths as they had in the UK over recent years. It is CRIMINAL what they are doing.
         • xtasy 6.3.1.2.1

           6 March 2013 at 4:12 pm

           http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/rethink/article/rethink-mental-illness-new-gp-survey-shows-government-welfar

           Sorry that link should work, without the e at the end!
           • Treetop 6.3.1.2.1.1

             7 March 2013 at 12:41 pm

             xtasy I am going to spend a bit of time looking at all the links you have supplied. I have an interest in PTSD and complex PTSD. I am looking forward to the DSM V ( being printed in May 2013) as PTSD will have its own separate section.
             • xtasy …

               8 March 2013 at 12:34 am

               Treetop: Thanks for your interest. I have no direct info on PTSD, but I am also interested in the new DSM V publication. I am concerned that some conditions like chronic fatigue syndrome are not accepted as a proper separate condition or disorder by some medical “experts”.

               I just wonder how the future assessors for WINZ will treat the DSM V and what true medical specialists (not just some GPs) diagnose and say to them.

               Please feel free also, yes do what you can, to spread any info and links to other interested persons. The more learn about all this, the better. There is so much at stake for the people affected.
7. freedom 7

   6 March 2013 at 8:59 am

   judging by the excessive use, i think the Nats are teasing/testing their next election campaign slogan

   “its time to move on”
   • Puddleglum 7.1

     6 March 2013 at 10:31 am

     As slogans go, it could backfire.

     Winston, for one, would be happy to recite it back to them and combine it with one of his own trademark phrases: ‘Yes, it’s time to move on … from the failed policies of the past that both of the old parties keep following …’.
     • freedom 7.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 11:35 am

       🙂 i thought the implied sarcasm was self evident
8. TheContrarian 8

   6 March 2013 at 9:20 am

   Is anyone going to go see Hordur Torfason (as advertised on the main page)? I would have really loved to but I’ll be in Japan when he is here. If anyone goes can they do a little write up or blog so those who can’t attend can get an idea of what it was like?

   Cheers
9. Puddleglum 9

   6 March 2013 at 10:24 am

   Apparently women in the UK have ‘turned left’ in droves. Seamus Milne suggests that it’s probably because they are bearing the brunt of the austerity push in the public sector and more generally.

   Apparently women were more likely than men to vote Conservative, historically.

   Has there been any tracking of gender-based voting in the recent polls in New Zealand? I haven’t heard any reports about it. If I remember correctly, Key apparently gained women’s votes for National to an unprecedented extent in the last two elections.
   • karol 9.1

     6 March 2013 at 10:41 am

     Thanks for that link, Puddleglum. There are some signs of a possible shift from Key by women over the last year or so.

     The backers of a poll say John Key is losing support among women.

     A Fairfax/Ipsos poll has 39% of women supporting National, with females more likely to see the prime minister as a polarising figure following issues such as the class sizes controversy.

     It is difficult to quantify a trend, as the Fairfax/Ipos poll is the first of its type.

     However, Fairfax points to other polls before the last election that showed 50% of women supported National.

     “Women swing voters have become particularly crucial in modern New Zealand elections,” Otago University political scientist Bryce Edwards told NBR ONLINE.

     “John Key will be well aware of that, and also well aware that his relatively strong performance in winning women over to National in 2008 was absolutely crucial to getting into government,” Mr Edwards said.

     “His strong appeal to women swing voters, was both ideological – not being too right-wing – and not being too much of a boring traditional politician.

     But the reasons given for past support of Key by women are pretty superficial -image over substance. In contrast the Guardian article focuses on the austerity policies as causing a shift to the left by women.

     And yet, we have a Labour caucus leadership that is male-dominated and seems keen on pursuing some version of the mythical “Waitakere”.

     Maybe the NZ party strategists are looking at the wrong focus group questions, and missing the significance of policy changes to large numbers of NZ women?
     • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

       6 March 2013 at 10:45 am

       A historic shift: women have moved to the Left of men in UK politics

       http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/05/women-left-of-men-historic-shift
       • karol 9.1.1.1

         6 March 2013 at 10:48 am

         Um? Yes, CV, that’s the same article that Puddleglum linked to at the beginning of this thread, and to which I was responding.
         • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1.1

           6 March 2013 at 10:49 am

           Ah sorry, was not paying attention karol.
         • Tim 9.1.1.1.2

           6 March 2013 at 12:33 pm

           Given that, and since they seem to be better at logic and critical analysis (women I mean), I was going to ask Why Hekia, Why Paula. And I was also thinking a little ‘deeper’ than that in terms of what corrupted process has kicked in given their indigenous background that identifies with – indeed, relies on collectivity. I suspect a Cargo Cult – especially when you look at that British Colonial Uniform number that Hekia often wears. Not sure about Pulla though! Africa maybe? Leopard skin? the hunt? In any event, they’re not only aberrations, they’re both very UGLY people in every sense of the word.
           • Tim 9.1.1.1.2.1

             6 March 2013 at 12:57 pm

             Funny! as in funny as a fart – in the neighbourhood, someone is playing that Burly Chassis number “Goldfinger” as I hit the submit button.
             Me thinks “Gold Digger”. As I said – very ugly specimens, in EVERY sense of the word – and best of luck to Wira – cock driven/remembering the days of the cock-driven, that he proves hisself to be.
             Condolences Wira – well, maybe not! What were you thinking? Ah – OK – you weren’t actually that bright – just another (as my relatives would put it) brown Pakeha.
             Actually, I think my next party vote is verging on Mana.
   • freedom 9.2

     6 March 2013 at 10:42 am

     we only have our own worlds to look at so naturally there can be no wider inference, but i know more women who voted National than men, and of the men who did most were married to a woman who voted national and of them most of the men have changed their tune but oddly the women have not
   • Blue 9.3

     6 March 2013 at 5:19 pm

     That’s the reverse of what I always thought. I thought men were traditionally more likely to vote right-wing than women, and that right-wing parties struggled for female support.

     That made sense to me because women and children are more likely to be harshly affected by right-wing policies.

     This way around makes no sense.
10. One Tāne Huna 10

    6 March 2013 at 11:19 am

    RIP Hugo Chavez.
11. Jenny Kirk 11

    6 March 2013 at 11:37 am

    What has happened to IrishBill’s suggestion that posters on The Standard start discussing and formulating some alternative policies for Labour/left ? (It was IrishBill , wasn’t it ?)

    the Labour Party is coming up to its regional conferences – some time in May – which will all be
    promoting various policies to take to the annual conference in November 2013.

    This annual conf is being held in Christchurch and has been touted as the “policy making” conference.

    So now is the time to get into thinking/discussing realistic policies for the left. Let us have your ideas please.

    As a starter – perhaps we could re-think the raising of the superannuation age to 67 years ?
    Is this absolutely necessary ? What alternatives could there be ? Does anyone know what Greypower thinks of that proposal ?
    • bad12 11.1

      6 March 2013 at 2:16 pm

      Yes wasn’t that a grand policy for Labour to headline it’s 2011 election campaign with, with numbers straight from Treasury Phill Goff strode the election stage proudly proclaiming that the New Zealand workers earning the least amount of wages and therefore least able to save would if they voted for Labour get done out of at least 2 years of superannuation by Labour,

      Damn easy to see why Labour lost that one right, a policy so far away from Labour’s supposed working class base that if it wasn’t an actual election strategy it would have been totally laughable,

      But, to the present, some policy that Labour should do more than consider,

      (1), The raising of the minimum wage by $1.50 an hour each and every year that Labour is next the Government,

      That alone would be an election winner that this Slippery lead National Government in no way could match and Dave could stomp the country for the next 18 months delivering such a policy which would add some meat to His present hollow mouthing’s about the bloke he met in the pub,

      Labour have the Treasury report that categorically states that raising the minimum wage will not lead to job losses, National would collectively disembowel it’self rather than try and match such a policy,

      (2), A building strategy that includes the addition of 4000 State Rental properties for the next ten
      years to take the States portfolio to over 100,000 units,

      Labour know this is needed, the numbers do not lie, for a population of 3.3 million we had 75,000 State Rentals,

      For a population of 4.4 million we only have 65,000 State rentals, the number of those struggling on low wages has risen not declined and Labour need get busy building a new city north oof the Bombay Hills…
      • Jenny Kirk 11.1.1

        6 March 2013 at 2:26 pm

        Thanks Bad12 – I’ll add your suggestions to my list, and btw – I, too, thought the super age rise was a silly and miserable policy to announce during the election campaign. It took many Labour supporters by surprise and many do not like it, nor think it necessary. There are other ways to deal with the baby boomer super bump.
        • bad12 11.1.1.1

          6 March 2013 at 3:19 pm

          Yeah tah much Jenny, my opinion is of course that these 2 areas in particular shouldn’t need including on any list by delegates, they should simply be core Party policy,

          My other view, and this is off of the back of an idea i heard floated (from i think inside Labour), is that the Government spend from A to Z needs looking at in terms of monies being needlessly spent into other economies when the work, jobs, profits, and taxation from this ‘spend’ would be far more beneficial if all those billions were spent in New Zealand,

          Obviously to spend all of Governments redistribution of taxation within the New Zealand economy is now problematic with all the ‘free trade agreements’ now in existence,

          However, where there’s a will there is a way and from KiwiBank on down Labour should be looking at how it CAN bring that Government spend home from other economies to be spent strictly in New Zealand,

          Labour should not be shy here in establishing it’s own State Owned Enterprises so as to enable the establishment of the necessary infrastructure so that the full spending of the Government is of benefit to New Zealand first and foremost…
          • Jenny Kirk 11.1.1.1.1

            6 March 2013 at 4:41 pm

            To Bad12 “My other view, and this is off of the back of an idea i heard floated (from i think inside Labour), is that the Government spend from A to Z needs looking at in terms of monies being needlessly spent into other economies when the work, jobs, profits, and taxation from this ‘spend’ would be far more beneficial if all those billions were spent in New Zealand,”

            This is part of the procurement policy which Labour has already adopted. ie having govt depts keep tenders to NZ tenderers not to o/seas ones – as much as possible – so the money stays here.

            And of course there should be some “core Party policy” which just goes on and on until its made legal and real – but unfortunately Mr Shearer has said he’ll be looking at all Labour’s policy again –
            so the matters which were touted at the 2011 gen election and supported by Labour people such as the minimum wage being $15pwk are all having to be re-looked at – re-negotiated is maybe another way of putting it. Hence the need for a “list” of basics along with new ideas.
            • bad12 11.1.1.1.1.1

              6 March 2013 at 7:44 pm

              Yeah Jenny that procurement policy is good economics, specially when we are talking up to 30 billion dollars a year,

              The employment and extra income from taxation involved would be huge for this country if it were all spent in New Zealand, KiwiBank should be the Governments banker even if it needs building up with some extra cash from the Government,

              The fact that the simplest of left wing policy needs negotiating in the Party is probably why i and a lot of others are now not members…
              • Jenny Kirk …

                7 March 2013 at 8:19 am

                Bad12, I find that a difficulty too …….
        • Skinny 11.1.1.2

          6 March 2013 at 4:16 pm

          + 1 What the hell were they thinking with a policy of raising the retirement age? That is something you would expect ACT to come with, how many blue collars would die on the job? Glad right thinking Goff is out of leader just wish he will bugger off altogether. If DC set up a real party I would join up straight away!
12. Morrissey 12

    6 March 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Brian Edwards’ open display of disaffection on “The Panel”
    Radio New Zealand National, Tuesday 5 March 2013.
    Jim Mora, Noelle McCarthy, Michelle Boag, Brian Edwards

    “The Panel” is billed as “the news of the day in a different way”, but there’s actually little in it, other than the absence of commercial breaks, to distinguish it from the glib and hollow chatter to be found on NewstalkZB or RadioLIVE. Host Jim Mora’s determination to keep things “light” (read, “glib”) has long outworn any charms it may once have had. His guests occasionally cavil at the triteness and vacuity of the topics selected for discussion and the once-over-lightly handling of them. Raybon Kan, Gary McCormick, and Anna Chin have openly criticized the choice of topics on the air, and it’s clear by their occasional long silences, and refusals to laugh at Mora’s jokes, that many other guests are as concerned as the listeners by the lessening standards of the show.

    Today, even the notoriously indulgent Dr. Brian Edwards was at the end of his patience after only a couple of minutes of pre-show banter…

    MORA: Michelle, you’re looking SPLENDID in your new coat!

    MICHELLE BOAG: [primly] Thank you.

    MORA: Maya blue, it is.

    BOAG: Is it?

    MORA: I looked it up. ….[Awkward silence]…. Especially.

    [Long, awkward silence…]

    NOELLE McCARTHY: I would have said sky blue. Or light blue…

    [Long, awkward silence…]

    MORA: Light blue, yes.

    BRIAN EDWARDS: Why are we DISCUSSING this?

    MORA: We were just saying Michelle has on a particularly lovely Maya blue coat.

    EDWARDS: We go through this every time we’re on the programme! Okay, I’m wearing a nice paisley tie and a striped shirt. All right?

    MORA: Brian is looking very sartorial!

    EDWARDS: Pshaw!

    et cetera, ad infinitum, ad absurdum, ad nauseam….
    • Tim 12.1

      6 March 2013 at 1:46 pm

      Oh phuk! – you don’t actually expect more from Mora do you? He (or his producer), whether intenionally, or by prejudice subscibes to the Fox News way of doing things.
      LOOK at the line-up for a start – WHICH amongst the ‘balance’ could remotely be called ‘of the left’ – let alone that ‘new left’ – somewhere to the right.
      Pour me a Chardonnay will you?
      Awe please …. pretty please ….. OK do you want me to gravel?! ANd some actually accuse RNZ of being left wing apologists!
      Speaking of which, Kathryn Ryan must have negotiated the best employment deal ever (one that, thankfully results in an Arts on Sunday reliever).
      How many days leave did she manage to get in her contract?
    • geoff 12.2

      6 March 2013 at 1:58 pm

      ++Morrissey
      • Paul 12.2.1

        6 March 2013 at 5:14 pm

        Did you hear Mora laughing at Graham Bell’s use of terms like ‘vermin’, ‘germ’ this afternoon? Really funny to dehumanise people, Jim.
        I think the victims of the Rwandan massacres were called cockroaches…and of course the 3rd Reich were past masters at using language to demonise people.
        What is Mora doing condoning such behaviours?
    • xtasy 12.3

      7 March 2013 at 12:46 am

      “Brain stripping” goes well with “asset stripping”, I suppose.
13. Dave Kennedy (bsprout) 13

    6 March 2013 at 2:49 pm

    National is “No Plan” Government! http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/child-poverty-no-plan.html
14. ScottGN 14

    6 March 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Good opinion piece in The Guardian online from Seumas Milne charting the leftward march of women voters. He points to the appointment of Frances O’Grady as the first woman leader of the Trades Union Congress in the UK. I imagine it’s no coincidence that here in NZ we have the redoubtable Helen Kelly as head of the CTU.
15. geoff 15

    6 March 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Here’s a really good article by Gordon Campbell:
    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2013/03/06/gordon-campbell-on-yesterdays-ird-victory-against-tax-avoidance/
16. infused 16

    6 March 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Good watch

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U_r97c_Oc6c
17. infused 17

    6 March 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Go to 12 minutes, talking about the new Greenpeace boat. This is why they never get my money.
    • dpalenski 17.1

      6 March 2013 at 6:46 pm

      I’m sure you hate them for more than that
      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1

        6 March 2013 at 6:49 pm

        Greenpeace figured out that their constituency was conscientous and upper middle class.

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