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Open mike 07/09/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 7th, 2012 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

77 comments on “Open mike 07/09/2012”

  1. lprent 1

    Well that was a pain.

    Hardware failures at the main server when it got it’s 3 monthly reboot. Problem with a hard disk failure and the RAID not quite working as expected so it didn’t drop the affected disk neatly. And there was a problem anyway with the remote access to the BIOS to change the array. Not to mention that the browsers are getting VERY paranoid about running Java applications.

    I’d already managed to destroy (damnit!) the warm backup system (one of my home systems) with an ill-timed screwup a few days ago. Played with QFlash after setting everything up for the new IP address that I got after we moved. It seemed to trash a pile of files on the boot partition. I was actually working on repackaging it…

    So I pushed the backups of data, images and code to the cold server, and went to bed at 0300.

    I do have to work as well and time is tight. So decided this morning that I would let the hosting techs deal with the hardware in the morning. If everything turned to custard on the drives, I would head home early to kick the cold server into action. It is a pretty small virtual server so capacity wise, I’d have to watch it – something I am loath to do at work.

    So I spent this morning and part of the afternoon silently remotely monitoring an increasingly frustrated tech working his way through the process of finding what in the hell was wrong. I could watch him working his way through the bios and booted tools. Nice toolset (I want…)

    Pain being out for just over 12 hours. But we’re volunteers and usually short of time and cash. I’d love to have a dedicated warm backup server – but the budget doesn’t stretch that far at present.

    Ummm need some more sleep. The coding is a bit sluggish right now.

    • marsman 1.1

      Thanks lprent.

    • fnjckg 1.2

      pain is generally a positive protective mechanism warning of hazards

    • tc 1.3

      Thanks and where can we make contributions ?

      • lprent 1.3.1

        Always willing to take people’s money… Donate here, these days the direct to the bank account is the best…

      • mickysavage 1.3.2

        Good idea TC.  

        I will make a donation and I suggest everyone else does the same.

        Just think.  In the past we paid Wilson and Horton to feed us with tory propaganda.  Why not pay the standard to feed us real news and community interaction? 

        • Bob 1.3.2.1

          You mean if we donate they will change and start providing us ‘Real news’, where do I sign up? Would be a refreshing change, although I am thouroughly entertained with the current red tinted view of the world.

          • mickysavage 1.3.2.1.1

            Oh Bob, so sure of your world view, so unwilling to actually say what it is.

          • lprent 1.3.2.1.2

            We don’t provide “news”. Mostly we provide “opinion” with a few facts interspersed and people commenting do the same. Of course the former is pretty much a job description of a journalist. They just have to get used to the blowback (the latter).

            Many of them seem to have a problem with that. Personally I think that it will do them quite a lot of good.

            But you have yet to tell us what you think – currently you perform the role of useless carping critic with not notable skills. This is merely my opinion, but I suspect it is because you are somewhat too stupid to think.. But is does provide us with a lower benchmark to measure ourselves against. (my nana always told me to look for what people were good at…)

    • just saying 1.4

      …backup server – but the budget doesn’t stretch that far at present…

      How much? Maybe we could have a whip round.

      • lprent 1.4.1

        They aren’t a one off cost like buying a machine. It is actually the bandwidth that costs the most over time directly and indirectly.

        These days we have a dedicated server running in NZ that costs about ~$333 per month ($290+GST). Traffic is unlimited inside NZ as (a major part) of the server cost, but costs $2/GB for offshore above our limit of 25GB. We typically do somewhere between 180GB and 300GB per month in local traffic (subject to cloudflare)…

        We’d typically do between 50 and 150GB in overseas traffic if it is left unconstrained – mostly to spambots, searchbots, and RSS feeds. That is where we get pinged pretty badly. It is all the more annoying because more than 95% of the human clients are inside the NZ net.

        So we now have cloudflare ($US 20 per month) which caches the static parts of the site like images and pushes almost all of the traffic local and overseas back on to the Southern Cross cable that the 25GB limit is meant to ration usage of. It also slows the site compared to being on the local net. But it makes our bills a lot more manageable. We effectively feed cloudflare mostly text (because they cache the rest) and they feed that and the cached images to everyone else from multiple servers worldwide.

        I also have my home system that these days could handle the traffic load for a few days with cloudflare assisting. Probably more so once the fibre arrives near the door in December. But residential bandwidth is pretty expensive. I usually run that ‘warm’ with a copy running in near real time to the main server with a replicated database and rsynced directory.

        And there is a cheap virtual server that sits cold and can be upgraded easily. I mostly use it for out of NZ storage of backups. But has probably been too problematic to run for a number of years as an active server because of CPU usage. The caching from cloudflare may change that and the reason to site in NZ (speed to NZ users) is now moot as we have to run everything from offshore because of the costs of overseas traffic…

        We actually make enough from the advertising. However it is somewhat unpredictable when the money arrives. So we concentrate on keeping the costs down.

        • just saying 1.4.1.1

          So a backup server would involve a monthly outlay for bandwidth?
          Another $333-odd per month? Ouch!
          What happened to the previously user-friendly donate page? I don’t have a smart-phone so can’t use an app.
          It’s a wee bit of a disincentive, those without the relevant tech or telebanking having to traipse down to the bank. However will make the effort…

          • lprent 1.4.1.1.1

            I haven’t looked at paypal for years. I see what you mean. I think I might remove it from the donations page.

            But I usually pay things using internet banking these days. That is pretty easy. One call to the bank should be able to set it up.

    • Carol 1.5

      Thanks for getting it going again, Lynn.

      I amused myself writing up a couple of posts offline this morning before I went out. Will post one below.

  2. just saying 2

    Welcome back The Standard. Thanks for getting her going again Lprent.

    The good news is that one Pagani is gone from Labour. It’s far too early to feel anything like optimism about the largest opposition party thus far, but it is good news none the less.

    It seems fitting that he’s gone to represent mining interests. Not as fitting as going on a benefit would have been, but of course years of making contacts amongst the rich and powerful go a long way even amongst the ignorant and inept.

    ps, my computer kept up a facsimilie of the site from after I turned the computer off last night. Something called cloud fare. Frankly I won’t be surprised if one day the computer starts turning on the kettle of its own accord before I get up in the morning, such are the marvels of technololgy…

  3. Uturn 3

    This is about journalism. One of the blogs I read is this one:

    http://ideologicallyimpure.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/the-thin-end-of-the-wedge-art-edition/#comments

    The above links to a story about The Dowse Gallery being challenged over restrictions to its patrons. I entirely agree with the opinion of the blogger. After watching the 3news video linked to in the piece, I have a question.

    On the subject of social privileges, do you think a journalist who watches a restricted artwork and reports its contents to everyone, disrespects the wishes of the artist and participants?

    In a world where many fail to recognise the existence of social privileges, I might appear to be looking a little too closely, but it seems that 3News have an opportunity to learn from this too, not just Paul Young and friends. If you are a journalist, you have power to communicate far outside the ability of average people. If someone sees the video and tells their friends what was in it, that is acceptable and the artist would expect it. But if you do it purposely on national TV because you can, for money, for reputation, because it’s the “outrage story” of the moment, then you’ve crossed the line. Especially if one of the defining features of the work has a religious element.

    You could say, ah yes but critical reviews are normal, journalists report, what’s the problem?

    Normal to who? Are they normal to Muslims? Far as I know, they are not. Isn’t this all about the right way to cross lines? Muslims that challenge Islamic thought must follow strict processes and none of them are anything like the freedoms of journalistic privilege in a western world. If the artist has an agreement with the gallery to uphold certain cultural ideas, then a journalist who wanders in and is allowed to circumvent those agreements hasn’t checked their privilege or extended any courtesies. The gallery could also be at fault here, by simply forgetting about dominant culture, but there is no proof for behind the scenes events.

    Yes but artists get criticised, their work is reviewed, it’s normal, how can you say it would be unacceptable, you’re a crazy PC femnobot!

    The artist drew explicit lines before the work was offered for viewing. The gallery accepted those terms, potential patrons knew the terms. Anyone who knew the terms and broke them committed a violence. Ill-gotten gains, receiving stolen goods, legal entrapment, blackmail, are all generally viewed as unacceptable in mainstream white culture. In order to maintain the moral high ground, we have to be sure we don’t commit any immoral acts along the way, ourselves.

    In this case, did the journalist misuse the privilege of being allowed to see the video by then clambering over the artist’s work with their own culture (the self importance of “being the first to view”) and privilege (the ability to address thousands or millions with a review), setting up a situation where the description wrongly tore away some of the privacy necessary for the installation to retain its natural integrity?

    Has the work now been compromised by that rough description, not because of the description per see, but the way the review was undertaken?

    For example, the journalist could have chosen to re-iterate the description given by the artist or gallery, or simply smiled and said, “Well I guess you blokes will never know. But it’s good.” instead of a pop culture analogy. Is there now the suggestion that the work has been judged by mainstream popular white culture as “nothing to get worked up about”? Cheapened by comparing religion, art and Islamic culture to an afternoon with the Kardashians? To be able to make such an analogy could suggest that any subtle messages in the artwork went totally over the viewer’s head, but that doesn’t mean the work hasn’t been labelled to invite prejudice.

    And if the artwork is “nothing to get worked up about”, does that help to muddle and sideline the central issue of privilege, allowing uninformed people to think this is just a case of PC Gone Mad? Does it make the job of attacking the artwork, artist, Muslims, women, minorities, human rights and the gallery, easier? Did the journalist commit a form of cultural violence/undermining brought about by unexamined privilege?

    NB: The journalist was a woman, naturally, otherwise she couldn’t have seen the video. I do not in any way suggest that because a journalist, who is a woman, may have done something wrong, that now every man and his dog is justified in doing as they please and that all issues of privilege are now void. These questions are to examine journalistic ethics (that will no doubt make some people laugh), identifying privilege and using privilege constructively.

    • fnjckg 3.1

      been there while TS down, may not be my cup of tea
      whole lotta questions to be subsumed above
      hope you got the Very Excellent for *natural history* item

      Early Mousterian man-50,000-100,000 ya

      currently we share probably 96% material with our hirsute companions
      yet
      35M single-nucleotide changes represent about 1% of genome
      yet
      the proteins directly coded by genes are highly conserved (29% identical, rest differ maybe two aminos on average)

      Then, there is those pesky ancient repetitive elements (Are’s)
      check out mice

      i am not paying to read the herald online, passed over enough money to feel unwell

    • QoT 3.2

      On the subject of social privileges, do you think a journalist who watches a restricted artwork and reports its contents to everyone, disrespects the wishes of the artist and participants?

      I was a little uncomfortable with this, but I don’t think it really breached the spirit of the request that only women view the exhibit. Plenty of articles had already said “they’re getting ready for a wedding, putting on makeup, etc” – the fact is that only the journalist saw the women unveiled, she didn’t name them or publish images of them.

      Someone with more knowledge of the culture would be able to say if they think it’s disrespectful or breaching the spirit of the women’s privacy.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      Yeah, I/S has a good write-up about that over on No Right Turn. Can’t say that I’m surprised – it’s what you get from a bunch of dictators upset that democracy is taking their wealth streams from them.

      • NickS 4.1.1

        Grrrrrrrr.

        And of course the rural National supporters wont give a toss, despite the irony over their ETS whinging etc.

    • fnjckg 4.2

      science IS Wonderful imo Joe.:)
      more soon

    • millsy 4.3

      Farmers, big business and big iwi want all the water to themselves and as far as they are concerned, domestic and recerational users can get stuffed.

  4. NickS 5

    And here’s Bill Clinton’s DNC speech:
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40869_Video-_President_Bill_Clintons_Remarks_at_the_2012_Democratic_National_Convention

    Same old Democrat centre right economic policy, leavened with delicious cluebatting of the Tea Bag Party’s abysmal failures to understand economics101 and why co-operation has empirically better outcome than teh GOP’s current “everyone for themselves!” meme. Plus the usual highlighting of why civil rights matter in terms of preventing people being part of society and how various aspects of poverty have very negative outcomes for the USA. With a big freaking dose of “I do give a fuck about these issues” and humour.

    And amusingly the GOP response has been mostly silence with the Tea Baggers going all a twit’ with ZOMG: “DEMOCRATS BOOED GOD!”.

    Has Obama fucked up? Yeap, a lot of the Republican’s are lost cases and should have never had any positions of responsibility in the Obama Administration concerning anything to do with science. Then there’s the continued use of Bush era laws to hide government actions and allow violations of civil rights both in and outside of the USA, slow movement at the federal level on LGBT rights plus the bailout. On the other hand though, the GOP has lost it’s brains completely and utterly, so a Mitt Romney presidency + Paul the Granny Starver Ryan etc is pure doom…

    • millsy 5.1

      Not too sure why everyone thinks the sun shines out of WJC’s ass.

      The economic boom during his presidency was more apparent than real, largely created by housing booms and the the expansion of credit, with a hell of a lot of people being left behind. His welfare reforms hit the poor extremely hard leading to hardship, creating a new underclass and the jobs kept streaming offshore.

      I dont rate him at all really. He is no Roosevelt (the all time best), Kennedy or even a Johnson.

  5. Just a thought, pagani may cause an explosion when he tries to turn oil and gas into water :)

  6. fnjckg 7

    Wow! wotta day. be wary that habits do not form u. (no standard to continue on reading)
    ya know, it is just one freakin thing after another with NZ
    most here are literary, have a gander at the first paragraph of Tale of Two Cities, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times….Light…..Darkness…..we had everything before us, we had nothing before us..”

    i regularly meet and encounter many middle-aged adult New Zealanders who do not have literacy above early intermediate level, of all ethnicities

    I love watching Rachel Smalley on channel 3; i suspect she has a compassionate heart and leanings in our direction, but that is only speculation, and we all know what that’s about, know do we not?

    Putin was wonderful to watch on RT today, particularly when compared and contrasted with print articles regarding his veiws today also

    i check out NEWS NOW online occasionally, that covers the zeitgeist; today highlighted the U.S-Israel “spat” (clever journalism) over Iran, ya get corroborating perspectives, ya get the drift,

    anyway, Putin highlighted the present Russia-China relationship, characterised by him as “at an unprecedented high….of mutual trust…developed over 1000’s of years

    meanwhile the signal being sent by Singapore at the Communist Party School lectures is that there be equivalent relationships with u.s and China (they continue to benefit)

    likely successor to the Party is at school there i believe. Yup

    Putin-“drugs from Afganistan increase 60% in the last year, wtf? are there not a lot of international military types there? and it is continuing to flood Europe.wow! revenge is a dish best served up Cold

    these freakin fasci…was one myself once…that is wot ‘appens when you wanna be your own god,
    oi oi oi
    well, bound because individually they are weak and fragile, been there had the patches, weirdos

    Act 1: 18, (With that reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out…)

    yes it is the NIV, so every one who is able and chooses to can read the freakin thing, priest…

    28, You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.

    I met some Beautiful maori people at a small fellowship last night
    formerly they were down, and out
    Now, Beautiful People, as they were to be
    Maori People are Beautiful People with challenging Big Hearts

    ol Martin Luther aye? some Dread

    Day-Hebrew-‘Yom’ is used in different senses in the Genesis story

    ex-nihilo-from nothing-go there

    remember proximate cause and Ultimate cause (Aristotle)

    ‘pretty’ Lamarckian

    then there is Ichneumonidae-Darwin could not really understand those but we can, can we not

    do you know, some dinosaurs had rheumatic joints (in the fossil record)

    There is at least 12 to follow around these here parts (purty Lamarckian)
    joe, CV, D, Board, Dr, Murray, Olwyn, Carol, Rosie, Iprent, QoT(if your cup of tea, important work) and U-Turn, so follow McFlock to Sanctuary

    Pr 1:17- How useless to spread a net in full view of the birds! These men (gender neutral nowadays)
    lie in wait for their own blood;

    OR,

    Acts 2: 44-

  7. anom on this one 8

    I was at the airport the other day, and happened to see Jerry waddling towards me, I said “Jerry Brownlee”, he looked at me, and as I had his attention I said “You fat fuck” … he said “Thank you” about 10 – 20 people were in hearing distance, I wish every politician would was shown that much respect each time they went out in public, then maybe their egos wouldn’t be so big.?

  8. Carol 9

    Listening to yet more reports on the US Democrat convention, I was thinking about how so much of our news comes from the US (as well as the UK). But even strong lefties spend a lot of time discussing US political issues. Undoubtedly, its imperialistic power mean that it has a big influence on our lives. But, I decided I’d like to hear more from other countries we might learn from, such as Scandinavian and South American countries.

    First I did a search on news from Finland. I did notice that it’s economy is experiencing some contraction right now. However, I also found this interesting op ed on Finland’s education system (albeit in a US newspaper), and why it is so successful.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/a-new-finnish-lesson-why-gender-equality-matters-in-school-reform/2012/09/05/3703ad4c-f778-11e1-8253-3f495ae70650_blog.html

    The author, Pasi Sahlberg, is director general of Finland’s Centre for International Mobility and Cooperation. He has served the Finnish government in various positions, worked for the World Bank in Washington D.C. and for the European Training Foundation in Italy as senior education specialist.

    Sahlberg describes Finland as a very competitive ‘market economy’ (a negative I’d have thought), but also says that,

    Finland has come to be known as a nation where educational quality, equity, and productivity exist simultaneously.

    He identifies 3 main provisions that ensure all Finnish children get a good education. But he also identifies an underlying reason why those provisions have been made: the relative gender equality, with significant numbers of women in top positions in central government, public life and commerce. He quotes Education historian Diane Ravitch, who criticises the corporatisation of US schools, reforming the schools along the lines of business practices, as being carried out by the “Billionaire Boys’ Club.”

    The 3 fundamental provisions he identifies are:

    1)

    the support parents receive from the health care system prior to and right after the birth of the child. Welfare policies in Finland guarantee free health care for the mother and her infant. Parents are also issued a fully paid 12-month parental leave that parents must share between one another

    2)

    the country’s early childhood development and care system that is accessible to all families.

    3)

    a strong, systematic focus on child well being once formal schooling begins. For example, every school must have a Pupil Welfare Team that deals with all possible issues related to children’s learning, development, behavior or health in school and at home.
    … Moreover, a free hot and healthful school lunch for all children has been a norm in all Finnish schools for 70 years.

    Sahlberg says that,

    What distinguishes Finland from the United States and many other nations in child well-being policies is accessibility and affordability. In Finland, all children and families have the same right to childcare, health and educational services regardless of socioeconomic status. Another difference is that the primary purpose of early childhood education in Finland is not to enhance children’s readiness for school. It is to support families in raising healthy and happy children.

  9. prism 10

    I am having trouble putting in a proposal to the MMP Review on their web site on this the last day. The 7th September is stated but not a finishing time that I could see and there does not seems to be any box to enter a proposal on line – as if that has been withdrawn although it is before 5.30 pm and I think it should be open to midnight.

    Also it is strange that a late proposal is dated 5.59 pm when the time is still about 5.30 pm.
    The one before is 5.58pm. It’s almost as if times are being allocated rather than recorded.

  10. Morrissey 11

    SEPTEMBER 06, 2012
    Why Desmond Tutu is Right About Bush & Blair
    Inside the CIA Dossier on Iraq

    by VIJAY PRASHAD

    Last week, Bishop Desmond Tutu was to sit beside former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair at the cringingly named Discovery Invest Leadership Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa. Tutu, one of the main moral voices in the anti-Apartheid struggle, decided to withdraw. He could not stand to sit next to Blair, or to Tony’s mate, George W. Bush because they had “fabricated the grounds [for war on Iraq] to behave like playground bullies.” Stingingly, in The Observer (September 1), Tutu recounted how he had called the White House a few days before the 2003 invasion, spoke to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice and asked her to give the UN weapons inspectors more time to do their work. But “Ms. Rice demurred, saying there was too much risk and the president would not postpone any longer.” The US and UK went to war, and according to Tutu, “More than 110,000 Iraqis have died in the conflict since 2003 and millions have been displaced. By the end of last year, nearly 4,500 American soldiers had been killed and more than 32,000 wounded.”

    Amnesia over Iraq has already set in. President Obama refused to countenance any prosecution for Bush era officials (and Bush himself) for the fabrications that Tutu alleges. In the UK, the Chilcot Inquiry on the Iraq War has finished its deliberations, but Sir John Chilcot has delayed the release of the final report for a full year because of wrangling to prevent Blair’s private letters to Bush from being revealed (he perhaps does not want to allow validation that in a July 2002 note he wrote, “You know, George, whatever you decide to do, I’m with you). At his appearances at the Inquiry, Blair admitted that the Iraqis were continuing to allow weapons inspectors, and that, as Sir Lawrence Freedman suggested, they had “started to reap dividends.” However, Blair worried that Saddam was “back to his old games” and was not capable of a “change of heart.” In his paper-thin memoirs, A Journey, Blair notes the question of regret for the war should not be a public question, but it can only be asked and answered “in the quiet reflection of the soul.”

    If this were a universal standard, then Syria’s Bashar Assad can relax, and so should all those who are threatened with arrest and trial at the International Criminal Court. They too should be allowed to claim that retrospective analysis of war crimes is a matter of the “quiet reflection of the soul,” not public, legal accountability. …..

    Read more…..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/06/inside-the-cia-dossier-on-iraq/

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Amnesia over Iraq has already set in. President Obama refused to countenance any prosecution for Bush era officials (and Bush himself) for the fabrications that Tutu alleges.

      Prosecuting a former President (or his staff )would set a dangerous precedent for Obama when he himself left office, would it not?

    • Vicky32 11.2

      Why Desmond Tutu is Right About Bush & Blair

      Excellent! Thanks, Morrissey…

  11. Carol 12

    Looking around for something of interest on Argentina, this morning, I came across this review of a book that documents the history of the anarchist movement of the turn from the 19th to 20th century, one that involved a widespread development of grass roots, direct democracy. The book is by Juan Suriano, Paradoxes of Utopia

    http://www.anarkismo.net/article/23799

    When the Argentine economy collapsed in 2001, many were surprised by the factory takeovers and neighbourhood assemblies that resulted. But workers’ control and direct democracy have long histories in Argentina, where from the late nineteenth century and well into the twentieth, anarchism was the main revolutionary ideology of the labour movement and other social struggles.

    For Juan Suriano, that’s just one part of the story. Paradoxes of Utopia gives us an engaging look at fin de siècle Buenos Aires that brings to life the vibrant culture behind one of the world’s largest anarchist movements challenging the myth that anarchist was merely a euro-centric movement: the radical schools, newspapers, theatres, and social clubs that made revolution a way of life. Cultural history in the best sense, Paradoxes of Utopia explores how a revolutionary ideology was woven into the ordinary lives of tens of thousands of people, creating a complex tapestry of symbols, rituals, and daily practices that supported-and indeed created the possibility of-the Argentine labour movement.

    Suriano attributes the decline of the anarchism movement to a mixture of state repression and the rise of the welfare state, electoral democracy, and, what sounds like the acceptance of unions for negotiating for workers in the workplace:

    However, by 1910 the Argentine anarchist movement in terms of numbers and influence was in steady decline mainly due to brutal state repression, but the growth of social welfare in housing, education and work, voting rights and institutionalisation of labour disputes all contributing with the author pointing out that ‘there is no doubt that the tendency toward self-marginalisation, combined with their reluctance to analyse or even note domestic particularities, dramatically facilitated their separation from the workers’.

    There are lessons here, with Suiano concluding that there’s no easy route to building direct participant democracy, it’s a long hard process. I don’t know how such a movement can ensure they eventually don’t become victims of “brutal state repression”.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      I don’t know how such a movement can ensure they eventually don’t become victims of “brutal state repression”.

      By ensuring that a workers movement has representation in every political party, as well as its own, and all parts of the social fabric of society.

      • Carol 12.1.1

        By ensuring that a workers movement has representation in every political party, as well as its own, and all parts of the social fabric of society.

        Well that’s kind of what the “neoliberals” did for themselves over the last few decades. So it’s a big task to flush them out, and bring some sense and grass roots democracy back into every section of society.

    • Carol 13.1

      And the sceptics were so sure of winning :roll:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7634556/Climate-sceptics-fail-in-Niwa-case

      In the judgement Justice Venning said he thought the court should be cautious about making judgements based on decisions made and conclusions drawn by a specialist body such as NIWA.

      He said NIWA acted “within its own sphere of expertise”.

      Justice Venning said unless the trust could point to some defect in NIWA’s decision-making process or show that the decision was clearly wrong in principle or in law the court could not intervene.

      “This Court should not seek to determine or resolve scientific questions demanding the evaluation of contentious expert opinion.”

  12. Richard Christie 14

    Leading Climate Scientists Welcome Judge’s Decision

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC1209/S00009/leading-climate-scientists-welcome-judges-decision.htm

    This release was jointly prepared by, and is endorsed by:

    Associate Professor James Renwick, School of Geography, Environment and Earth Sciences, Victoria University of Wellington
    Professor Jim Salinger, currently visiting Stanford University
    Professor Martin Manning, Climate Change Research Institute, Victoria University of Wellington
    Professor Peter Barrett, Antarctic Research Centre, Victoria University of Wellington
    Professor (Emeritus) Blair Fitzharris, University of Otago
    Professor Keith Hunter, Pro-Vice Chancellor Science, University of Otago

    • Carol 14.1

      Spokesperson for the group, Associate Professor James Renwick of Victoria University said he was pleased that the court had respected and reaffirmed the credibility of the scientific process. It was a strong message to those wanting to challenge widely-agreed scientific findings to do so honestly and openly in scientific forums.

      Ouch!

      • Richard Christie 14.1.1

        Looks as if costs are almost certainly going to be granted against the plaintiff.

        • NickS 14.1.1.1

          Hehehehehe…

          They’ll still try and spin this though in their favour :(

          But stupid does as stupid is…

          • Richard Christie 14.1.1.1.1

            Barry Brill and, I suspect, the ACT party were behind this nonsense, Brill set up the trust fronting the action. I hope they get screwed with substantial costs.

            • NickS 14.1.1.1.1.1

              They’ll just get a donation from Heartland and fellow weasels to cover it probably…

              And because this is NZ, the court costs wont be hideous, so it wont be that much sadly :/

              • Richard Christie

                Judgment said NIWA are entitled to costs, not only the court.

                “The plaintiff does not succeed on any of its challenges to the three decisions of NIWA in issue. The application for judicial review is dismissed and judgment entered for the defendant. [and] The defendant is entitled to costs.”

            • Anne 14.1.1.1.1.2

              the ACT party were behind this nonsense

              They most assuredly were… lead by that obsessional nincompoop, John Boscawen. It was nothing but an ideologically motivated political ploy to try and embarrass the climate scientists and thus infer global warming to be a fake. They never had a show in hell of succeeding, but their own tunnel-visioned arrogance and self-deceit gave them the lie they would win.

              I contributed to a small portion of the data involved, and the checks and balances in place were in strict accordance with WMO (World Meteorological Organisation) guidelines.

              They were hoisted by their own ignorance. Ha ha ha ha!

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.2

        It was a strong message to those wanting to challenge widely-agreed scientific findings to do so honestly and openly in scientific forums.

        They’ve already tried that and had their arses handed to them. This was the Deniers last chance to stop the truth from winning out.

    • Anne 14.2

      In defending the claim, NIWA has spent a huge amount (estimated at well over $100,000) and has diverted a number of its scientists away from their research. The country can ill afford to waste such an amount. “This misguided action of a small group adds confusion to a simple issue – the world is warming and future generations of New Zealanders will have to deal with the consequences” Dr Renwick said.

      I hope this story gets a bit of international exposure. It will help discredit these foolish but dangerous global warming deniers.

  13. Bob 15

    Ha ha, good job. That’s god punishing you for being a twat Lyn.

  14. captain hook 16

    didja see mccully weaseling out of the marine reserve in the Ross Sea.
    these guys will bend over backward for buck.
    ooops…better be careful about what I say.

  15. Blue 17

    The Standard is back online, Bill Clinton made an awesome speech, and John Pagani is goneburger :D

    A very happy Friday it is :D

    • millsy 17.1

      Clinton set the example for Obama, promise to the left, but deliver to the right.

      At least Obama didnt totally cave in to the right over health care like Clinton did.

    • NickS 18.1

      :(

      By the Elder Gods, wtf Australia? You couldn’t even get away with that level of outright, naked misogyny in the US Senate without committing political suicide. Oh and Larry Pickering is one colossal creep /shudder

      btw, please put “trigger warning” on stuff like that, some out there haven’t had it easy on this sort of shit :(

      • ak 18.1.1

        Where you bin Nick. Good ole godzone led the way on this with the deliberate and well-funded Helenhate campaign of 05-08.

        Among other write- and talk-back efforts of note, that nice Cam Slater (son of a National Party president and pushbike partner of the mallard) published pornographic material with Helen’s head attached and along with that nice David Farrar currently appearing on nice Jim Mora’s panel published every possible mysogenistic hatred-inciting comment imagineable including exhortations for her assassination.

        Worked a treat. A true kiwi initiative. Our local mysogenistic hatemongering had comparatively limited effect, but: “bitch” never quite segued to the current aussie “witch”, perhaps because Helen had neither red hair, sharp nose, nor intelligence below that of 99% of the population.

        Poor old Julia’s doomed. Latest victim of the massive 1950 – 70s US-funded Catholic anti-socialist propaganda efforts now brought to fruition and propogated by the Joyces, Englishes and anti-gay-voting Findlaysons of our day.

        And black days too for poor old Jesus. Just as the last corrupt manipulators of His legacy enter their well-deserved hell, their hapless and brain-washed immigrant protegees rally to the hands that feed bread alone and keep the money-changers in the temple. To their own, ultimate, but fantasy-leavened detriment.

        But He works in mysterious ways. If we had to give the world Helenhate as a prelude to UN Helen, Labourlite, the Mana Maori Party and GreenLab, perhaps that’s a small price.

        • NickS 18.1.1.1

          Ah, too sleep deprived and not active on the NZ political blog scene until post-Labour :P

          My flatmate Tui actually sort of introduced me to this place I think, or at least the road that lead to it.

          I remember some of that too, but it never really made into the mainstream media enough for me to notice it, where as the one is AUS has hit the mainstream at a rather horrifyingly broad level.

          And was that a Farrar of Kiwiblog aka the sewer or the one on TV3 who has a massive bias against Labour and who “helped” Chris Carter end his political career?

          And Julia’s initial problem was fucking Kevin Rudd’s inability to accept his well deserved fate. He stuffed up and the party made it clear it no longer had confidence in him as the leader. This opened up a hole for the media to exploit and created a fair few issues vis party in-fighting. Which, if it were less of an issue, might have given Gillard more support and allowed the party to fight back against the outright misogynistic bullshit the right has been throwing at her.

          Oh, and some of us are atheists :P

          Also on ” intelligence below 99%…” Explain it please, because Gillard very much has a working brain and more apparent intelligence than Ruddkips.

        • fnjckg 18.1.1.2

          Excellent imo.(big price regretably)

    • joe90 18.2

      btw, please put “trigger warning” on stuff like that

      Yeah, sorry about that, will do so in the future.

  16. xtasy 19

    Reminder call:

    ACC legal and moral breaches:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCecwuwCHb4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QknNdOhOkr8

    WINZ legal and moral breaches:

    http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/2012/Fri_DaVinci_1400_Bratt_Medical Certificates are Clinical Instruments too – June 2012.pdf

    http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Dr+David+Bratt+ppt&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CE0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rgpn.org.nz%2FNetwork%2Fmedia%2Fdocuments%2FConference2011%2FD-Bratt.ppt&ei=pOMqUNyqF–QiQee4oGgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFEdYN_dDW9BAZvZo_cQpC2rFyelg&cad=rja

    So THIS is going on in this country, and apparently the majority of the population go along with this, thinking the persons affected are largely maligners and “bludgers”.

    What a bloody disgrace this country has become, I’d say! Also there is NO solution for the capable to stay here and partake in a growing, successful economy.

    As a migrant from a developed country, I ask why I ever bothered coming back to such a mean spirited, unfair, unsympathetic and bullshit country, selling itself as “clean green”, “humane”, “fair” and whatever, while in reality most are at each other’s throats.

    The truth is, that is what happens in a depressed, impoverished, divided and manipulated society. That is what NZ has become. I hate it. Better bloody make sure it changes, or you will lose many more fair minded, educated, reasonable, well qualified and capable people, as you are doing every bloody week.

    Key must be put out of office tomorrow, not in two years, MR USELESS SHEARER!

  17. fnjckg 20

    Thank you for that. true

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