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Open mike 10/07/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 10th, 2012 - 170 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

170 comments on “Open mike 10/07/2012”

  1. muzza 1

    Mystery of Obama’s ‘missing year’ at Columbia solved as monitor blames computer error

    “We basically had two records running simultaneously, and it just depended on how you input the name and the other information as to which records you got,’ Ms Greenwood told the site”

    I guess the administrators were not sure which of his names to use when searching the records.

    Love a good old fashioned computer error to explain away those pesky system bugs.

    • McFlock 1.1

      Happens to this day.
      That’s why student IDs are important.
               
      Or did your bold type imply sarcasm? 

  2. Pascal's bookie 2

    Soo, guess who reckons being raped after drinking is somehow analogous to causing a car accident after drinking?

    Same person says they’d forgive a friend who did this, so that they could forgive themselves ( & we’re talking about forgiving the person who got raped here, not the person who caused a car accident).

    Same person says they would have words with a male friend from the situation too, telling them it would be wiser to keep it zipped.

    Hint: they get media play as social policy expert.

    Shitting you not.

    Not even a little bit.

  3. hellonearthis 3

    When I go to google +1 a story it fails and I also have problems when posting a link into google plus. Is there something blocking this?

    • TightyRighty 3.1

      The network has become self aware and can’t quite believe anyone actually used google plus.

  4. Jenny 4

    Is a nuclear free Japan in the wings?

    In an election in a Japanese prefecture with a nuclear power plant which is due to be restarted. The anti nuclear candidate Mukohara came second to the winning incumbent Ito.

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120709a4.html

    > The election was the first in a prefecture hosting a nuclear plant since the July 1 restart of a reactor at the Oi nuclear plant in Fukui Prefecture, the first reactivation since the last of Japan’s 50 commercial reactors was suspended in early May in the aftermath of the March 2011 disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
    >
    > Ito was backed by the local chapters of major parties, including the ruling Democratic Party of Japan and the main opposition Liberal Democratic Party, while Mukohara was supported by antinuclear activists and the Japanese Communist Party.

    Japanese Prefectures have no legal say in the restart of Nuclear power stations in their areas. This is all decided by central government. However in the restart of the Oi reactor the central government, due to the sensitivity of the issue, were forced to seek the approval of the local governor before they were able to let it be restarted.

    All nuclear power stations in Japan are privately owned and the decision to open them is usually done on the vote of the shareholders whose main considerations are commercial, and who are presently facing huge losses on their investments if the plants cannot be reopened. Most of these shareholders also do not live in the areas where the plants are sited and so do not share the concerns of the locals. In this way the democratic say by prefectures over nuclear power plants in their areas has been removed.

    However Central Government has a regulatory role and can approve or deny any attempt by the private owners for a restart.

    The winning pronuclear incumbent Ito, has promised that if any restart is attempted, he will demand that the government use their regulatory powers to hold the owners of the plant to the highest levels of safety.

    It is clear from this, that in the case of the central government not receiving a mandate from local prefecture leaders, or even outright opposition. That in practice, central government power to approve the restart of nuclear plants would be in serious doubt.

    Currently a nationwide petition calling for a referendum on the future of nuclear power generation has gathered well over 7 million names and is still going strong.

    Whatever the success they have in opening any more plants, the privatised Japanese nuclear industry has suffered a serious setback from which it is unlikely to ever recover, and is a seriously risky investment.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      But you don’t support the massive increases in coal and fuel oil that Japan has had to burn since shutting down their nuclear plants, right? They go with a permanent nuclear ban, and that increase in fossil fuel usage will stay.

      • Bored 4.1.1

        I think either way we are fekked…..the embedded use of carbon building and operating nuclear plants is immense (the fuel used to mine and refine uranium and iron ore, to melt the metal rods and make concrete etc etc. There are arguments that the EROEI for nuclear is marginal when all inputs are considered, and like all other fossil fuels nuclear depends upon a depleting uranium supply etc. These however are minor points but they do mitigate against nuclear being any less carbon friendly than fossil fuels, and makes nuclear more of a battery than a generator.

        The single biggest reason we should avoid conventional nuclear is simply waste management over time. The waste remains dangerously radioactive over 000s of years and requires active management. When the economic argument of cost of nuclear energy is made this cost is never considered. If this cost was added to the equation we would never contemplate nuclear as a viable option. As it is the nuclear industry is very similar to miner who leave ponds of toxic cyanide sludge and walks away…the hazard and cost truly externalised for short term gain.

        Given the above if we are going to do anything with the carbon fuel supplies remaining the emphasis should be upon building long term renewable infrastructure. Its a trade off with carbon emissions and requires a rational debate that is not market supply and demand centric.

      • weka 4.1.2

        We are better off with climate change then nuclear radiation. Burning coal and oil has a limited life now, whereas the problems of nuclear power plants and nuclear waste will be massive once we don’t have cheap oil. Better to shut down nuclear now while we still can relatively safely.

        • Lanthanide 4.1.2.1

          “We are better off with climate change then nuclear radiation. Burning coal and oil has a limited life now, whereas the problems of nuclear power plants and nuclear waste will be massive once we don’t have cheap oil. Better to shut down nuclear now while we still can relatively safely.”

          CO2 lasts in the atmosphere for up to 500 years. The radiation around Chernobyl is expected to be back down to safe levels after about 200 years. It is quite easy to choose not to live in the area around Chernobyl, however it is pretty much impossible to choose not to be affected by climate change in at least some capacity (as distribution chains and commodity prices are now global).

          Now, there are types of radiation that are much worse than those let loose at Chernobyl, but the situation is a bit different to how you portrayed it.

          • Bored 4.1.2.1.1

            Broken reactors like Chernobyl are not the issue, as you say the radiation released diminishes faster than carbon in the atmosphere. The issue is the retention and storage of spent fuel for 000s of years.

            As I pointed out above, nuclear gives us bugger all carbon savings because of the embedded fossil fuel use building and supporting nuclear…for a little more energy we put as much carbon in the air. We might as well burn the fossils directly.

          • weka 4.1.2.1.2

            Lanth, what happens to those reactors, and the stored waste, in a post-peak oil world esp one where the economies collapse and tech support is lost? I understand the differences from a science pov. I was thinking that rising sea levels, and things like increases in major weather events are going to be easier to deal with than the effects of radiation poisoning on humans and our food sources. There is nothing inherently dangerous about the sea or weather, whereas radiation is damaging.

          • Vicky32 4.1.2.1.3

            It is quite easy to choose not to live in the area around Chernobyl, however it is pretty much impossible to choose not to be affected by climate change in at least some capacity (as distribution chains and commodity prices are now global).

            Sorry, that’s completely idiotic! The whole of Europe was and is affected by radiation from Chernobyl. “Choose not to live there”, my oh my, how would you like my suggesting that you ‘choose not to live in Christchurch’ and stop complaining about the earthquake?

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 4.1.2.1.4

            “Up to 500 years” – closer to 500,000 years, although a 90% reduction from the initial “spike” will take about 5,000 years.

      • OneTrack 4.1.3

        Far better that they burn millions of tons of coal than go back to that evil nuclear stuff that we marched against in the seventies.

      • Jenny 4.1.4

        I think CV that you should have more faith in people.

        The citizens of the most creative, industrious and technologically sophisticated society on earth, upon crushing a modern monolith like the nuclear industry, are unlikely to be content to settle with another Frankenstein’s monster.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.4.1

          I’m not talking about where faith comes from, I’m talking about where GJ come from.

          And if not nuclear, where? Actually, Japan has already answered that question loud and clear. Japanese NG imports surged 74% and coal imports surged 26%, year on year.

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17093255

          Do you approve or not?

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.4.2

          I should say, I subscribe to Greer’s idea that energy depletion presents an insoluble predicament for human civilisation. There is no solution to it apart from (hopefully, a controlled and socially considered) economic and technological decline.

          • Jenny 4.1.4.2.1

            He aha te mea nui o te ao?

            He tangata! He tangata! He tangata!

            CV you need to put more store in people’s intelligence, and creativity. Especially when that creative power is unleashed by political action.

            The citizens, of arguably, the most industrious, rich and technologically sophisticated society on earth, upon crushing a modern monolith like the nuclear industry, as I said before are unlikely to be content to settle for another Frankenstein’s monster.

            Japan is the first world society better positioned than any other to take advantage of the hi tech silicon revolution. Japan with it’s huge industrial capacity, could crank out solar power and wind generation on a truly monumental scale, if it chose to.

            All that is missing, as in the rest of the world, is the political will.

            For a grass roots movement empowered by a victory over Big Nuclear, the next logical target will be creating that political will.

            After all, a green revolution, would sit far better with Japan’s traditional cultural heritage than either coal or nuclear.

          • Jenny 4.1.4.2.2

            “no solution”

            “insoluble”

            Colonial Viper

            Really CV? What an Apologist* you are.

            WIND – WATER – SOLAR

            WWS can power 100% of the world’s energy needs, eliminating all fossil fuels (and nuclear power).

            Here is the plan.

            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030&page=2

            Japan could become the engine room of the world in implementing it.

            *Apologists are worse than deniers. Intelligent enough to know that climate change is a real problem and a real danger to humanity. Yet continually make all sorts of excuses for doing nothing. The apologists are now more dangerous to humanity than the deniers who have retreated to the margins in the debate around climate change. The debate has moved on.

            To take action, or not has become the central challenge.

            Presently the apologists lead the charge to continue business as usual.

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.4.2.2.1

              We have assumed that most fossil-fuel heating (as well as ovens and stoves) can be replaced by electric systems and that most fossil-fuel transportation can be replaced by battery and fuel-cell vehicles.

              Did you read these assumptions at the start of the article you quoted?

              Do you really believe that these assumptions will hold and are achievable over say a 15 year timeframe?

              Presently the apologists lead the charge to continue business as usual.

              You’re a fantasist.

              I’m not advocating for BAU. I’m merely stating that BAU is going to continue for the foreseeable future, just like the sun and the moon are going to keep rising and setting.

              Why?

              Because at 36MJ of energy completely safely stored inside a 1L container of diesel, no other energy system comes close in terms of:

              1) Energy density
              2) Cost
              3) Convenience and ease of transport and storage.
              4) Usage flexibility
              5) Existing infrastructure and technology

              Against these advantages, do you really believe that the majority of NZ freight and passenger transport is going electric and hydrogen fuel cell over the next 15 years?

              Time to wake up, Jenny. Time to put your energy into ways ahead which might actually be achievable.

  5. [Can someone close the bold tag left open? - done - r0b]

    How is this for financial stupidity all in the name of doctrinaire capitalism?

    There are two schools out west being built as PPPs. The cost is about $110 million and the savings identified by the PPPs is $1.9 million.

    BUT, and it is a big but, it cost the Government $3.5 million to prepare the business cases.

    Net effect a loss of $1.6 million. The Government claims the reports can be used for all PPPs but no doubt they will have to be reviewed continuously.

    What idiot authorised this?

    Information is at http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/7246050/Saving-goes-out-the-window

    • Dv 5.1

      AND the ‘saving’ of 1.7% is over 25 years!!!

      Good to see they have implemented the very accurate forecast model.
      Obviously not using treasury models.

      Bizzare.

    • vto 5.2

      ha ha ha, that is very funny. $1.9million saving over 25 years on a $110million capital cost.

      And I betcha that $1.9million could be pulled apart and blown away int eh slightest breeze. Would love to see the detail – especially around any renting required to be done by the schools from the private entity.

      This lot are absolute fools.

      Just like it was suggested that the private sector could outperform ACC provided that premiums were raised to make room for private profit.

      ha ha ha ha ha ha – pretty soon now everyone will realise that the emperor has no clothes.

      The unfunny side of course is that all of this rorting leads directly to less $20 notes in people’s wallets at the end of each and every week.

      • Bored 5.2.1

        So true the peoples dollars diminish. And so do business dollars as a consequence. The whole thing is as Mickey points out doctrinaire rubbish BUT it hides another agenda. That is to allow private capital to take a stake in “property” and to take a rental return. Its good old fashioned “rentier” behavior against which Adam Smith himself objected vociferously as a form of parasitism.

        Just to explain, if we build a school that costs $10 dollars, pays $8 themselves and allows the private sector to invest $2 dollars the government will pay (via taxes) the interest on $8 for their share. They will also pay rent on the $2 to the private investor. Unsurprisingly the government gets better interest rates…but pays higher rent on the $2 than they would on $2 interest. The taxpayer pays the difference, either way it costs more.

        In my business I would describe this as total folly. And as National supporters support business the whole thing must be both doctrinaire and self seeking at the expense of the tax payer.

      • marsman 5.2.2

        In England, where they have the same ilk of Shonkey scamming arseholes running the country, PPP’s are going to cost 12 times what the same asset would have cost if established with only Public Funds. Am betting the same will be true here.

        http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2012/07/06/gordon-campbell-on-private-sector-delivery-as-an-inter-generational-scam/

  6. I see two major issues with the Waitangi Tribunal water rights claim.

    1. How can anyone claim ownership of something as globally fluid as water? In principle and as a practical exercise I don’t see how it can be claimed by any individual, group or country.

    2. The timing of this claim and some statements made about it can easily lead to the perception that this is an extorion attempt, to try and force Government into giving preferential treatment with the MOM share floats.

    Some parties may use it as a convenient anti asset sale weapon – if Labour do that they may end up regretting the monster it could create.

    Both the principle and the timing make me think that extorting water rights rort is wrong.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 6.1

      When is the appropriate, hair-approved, time to do something to prevent asset sales, weasel?

    • ropata 6.2

      imaginary future monster = distraction from actual current rip off …

      • Pete George 6.2.1

        Long as I remember the rain been comin’ down
        Clouds of mystery pourin’ confusion on the ground.
        Good men through the ages tryin’ to find the sun.
        And I wonder still I wonder who’ll stop the rain.

        – John Fogerty

        • Logie97 6.2.1.1

          Hey Pete, are you saying that the water in every pond or lake bounded by a freehold farm fence is not the property of that farmer …? Good luck on that one.

          • felix 6.2.1.1.1

            I don’t think he’s even got that far into it. He’s probably still trying to find a way to support Peter Dunne’s promise to protect these water assets while simultaneously supporting National’s plan to sell them.

            • Pete George 6.2.1.1.1.1

              Lame felix, you are repeating, yet again, something that is incorrect.

              But thanks for the opening to link to proof, others may not have seen it:
              http://yournz.org/2012/06/23/is-peter-dunne-breaking-a-promise-on-water-assets/

              • McFlock

                Pete, you’re on drugs.
                     
                For the last 8 months you’ve been pointing us to the pedantic minutae of what Dunne said in order to avoid a conflict between what he does and what the voters expected. Now, when it comes to water, he was suddenly speaking so loosely that only some lakes count as “water”, even though they’re all fed by the same rivers, springs and clouds. 
                             
                You know what? If private investors want to make a profit off the water flowing through the rivers, then they should pay the owners for the privilege. It’s that simple. As soon as you take “public” out of “public good”, it becomes a dog-eat-dog world of commerce and fuckwits all working to shaft each other. 
                         
                Both you and Dunne should have known that before you advocated for his selling out of the nation.
                      
                I expect National to be evil fuckwits. I actually gave Dunne’s desire for self-preservation a reasonable chance of overcoming his toadying nature. Shame I was wrong.

                       
                 

              • felix

                Pete you’re hilarious.

                Your link presents – as evidence that Dunne hasn’t done a u-turn on water assets – a quote from (wait for it) Peter Dunne from after the coalition deal.

                You fucking idiot, you’re just reinforcing the criticism that his promises before the election don’t match his actions afterward.

                • felix you’re a lone futile voice on this, here’s another today from out there:

                  Peter Dunne – The Power of One
                  by Tim Watkin

                  Dunne, as leader of United Future, has copped a lot of flak recently for his support of the mixed ownership model.

                  He’s been entirely consistent in his views – partial sales ok, so long as they’re not TVNZ, RNZ, KiwiBank or water rights. There’s no suggestion of u-turns.

                  But what’s new is that his decisions are starting to count for a lot more.

                  http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/peter-dunne-%E2%80%93-the-power-of-one

                  I’m surprised you keep trying to dog whistle paddle against the tide.

                  • felix

                    Before election – against selling water assets.

                    After election – in favour of selling water assets.

                    Carry on with your sophistry as long as you like, but that’s the nuts right there and I don’t see anything you’ve written that addresses it.

                    • You’re a lone voice on that, partly because you’re wrong. Others can see the reality, you can’t, or you keep pretending not to.

                      Carry on with your sophistry as long as you like, but I don’t think anyone out there is listening.

                    • McFlock

                      Will the hydrostations automatically have the right to use water?
                        

                    • felix

                      “you’re wrong.”

                      Ah yes I remember it now. Those U.F. ads with Dunne saying “We will never support the sale of Kiwibank, Radio NZ, or our Water – except for the Waikato River water and most of the water in the South Island”.

                      Thanks for jogging my memory.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      “lone, futile voice”
                       
                      Now I see why Pete is so upset with felix; he thinks felix is breaching his copyright.

                    • QoT

                      For the record, I completely agree with felix on Dunne being a slippery wanker who kept his “promises” very, very specific so that apologists like Petey G could try to excuse his desperate grab for power-baubles later on.

                      I just don’t harp on about it ’cause felix is doing such a tremendous job holding Mr Linkspam to account.

          • grumpy 6.2.1.1.2

            …if I have a freehold farm and there is an aquifer underneath – then that water is mine?????

        • mike e 6.2.1.2

          Peters Groupie how can any one claim ownership of land because its just dust in the wind “Kansas’
          the God particle proves it.
          Funny Pontificating Guile Stephen Franks said last night on national radio that the National party opened the door by giving Maori rights under the treaty of Waitangi back in 1996.
          So Maori doe have rights to the water!
          He and his right wing mates are pissed off that their own party gave Maori their rights back.

      • Bored 6.2.2

        There is a taniwha!

      • mike e 6.2.3

        Peter’s Groupie .
        You have no creadance to use a song to propagandize your view on clear water.
        Maori had alot of justice denied over the last 170 years now they are sticking up for their rights given to them as british citizens.
        I smell the politics of envy.

    • How can anyone claim ownership of something as globally fluid as water?

      Funny but I get water bills to pay all of the time. And when I go into a garage to get a bottle of water it costs moolah.

      perception that this is an extorion attempt, to try and force Government into giving preferential treatment with the MOM share floats

      Utter rubbish. Maori have been complaining about Treaty of Waitangi issues since the first breach. This current application is hot on the heels of the Supreme Court decision in Paki v Attorney General which was filed years ago. Unfortunate timing for the Government but definately not an extortion attempt.

      • Funny but I get water bills to pay all of the time
        You are paying for the maintence of having running water to your house – the water itself isn’t “owned”

         And when I go into a garage to get a bottle of water it costs moolah.
         
        You are paying for the bottling and the convenience

        I think what PG means is free running lake/river water not pumped to your house or bottled water

        • felix 6.3.1.1

          “You are paying for the maintence of having running water to your house – the water itself isn’t “owned”

          Cool, so I can just pay the portion for the maintenance and ignore the per litre charge. Excellent news. I’ll do the samewith my electricity bill and pay the lines co. portion while ignoring the per MWhr part. Thanks, Contrarian, you saved me a packet.

          “I think what PG means is free running lake/river water not pumped to your house or bottled water”

          Then presumably he means not pumped into a hydro-electric power generation network either.

          • TheContrarian 6.3.1.1.1

            Forgive me if I am wrong but I don’t think the council claims ownership of the water

            As per wikipedia (obviously not the most acedemic of sources.,but anyway)
            ‘Water and wastewater tariffs are not charged for water itself, but to recover the costs of water treatment, water storage, transporting it to customers, collecting and treating wastewater, as well as billing and collection.’

            This is what I meant water rates are for. Not because the Council owns the water

            • felix 6.3.1.1.1.1

              Link please so we can see what it’s really referring to. Better be nz.

              • McFlock

                yeah, nah. Yet again seeking the definition that suits his purpose, rather than the one we live by here and were talking about.

                • felix

                  Bit awkward how the link to the article on water pricing was in the same paragraph that he selected his quote from.

                  He must’ve seen it while copy/pasting, it was right there. Which is a a bit embarrassing as it almost looks as if he deliberately avoided linking so as to mislead the forum.

                  • McFlock

                    yeah. He must have thought he was the only one on the interwebz that has heard of google.

                    • So the council does claim ownership of the water?
                       

                    • McFlock

                      At least one NZ council seems to think it might be an issue:

                      The council was proposing to start a process to revoke the 2001 Rural Water Supply Bylaw and replace it with a new bylaw covering technical issues, including theft of water.  

                       

                    • McFlock

                      oh wow, here’s an actual criminal case for theft of water:

                      An Oamaru man who allegedly stole water from the Waitaki District Council by tampering with his water meter is being dealt with by diversion through the Oamaru District Court.

                    • You see, outside of your (McFlock) and Felix’s hilarious double act of snide and sneering scorn although hilarious, you are not actually helpful. I am trying to ascertain whether the council claims to own the water itself and thereby charge you for it as opposed to the maintenance, pipes and containment which is how it is generally understood.

                    • felix

                      Nah, you were caught out selectively quoting part of an article in such a way as to demonstrate that councils don’t charge for water, when the article actually said nothing of the sort.

                      Bit late for the innocent act now pal.

                      Also, if you really believe the council isn’t charging you for water then stop paying them per litre and see if they keep delivering it.

                    • McFlock

                      Hmmmm. Did they write ” allegedly stole the maintenance, pipes and containment of water”?
                               
                      Nope. 

                    • higherstandard

                      And

                      http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/water/property-rights-water-nov03/html/page4.html

                      ‘Property rights can arise through law, custom/tradition and use. However the State defined and enforced property rights represent a useful starting point for an analysis of rights in water. In legal terms [This section largely summarises the property rights aspects of the Milne and Mooar (2002) report. This report should be read for more detail of water allocation and property rights.] regional councils are empowered under the RMA to grant water permits which allow the holder to take, use, dam or divert water subject to availability. Consents are not required for water takes in some limited circumstances (e.g. domestic use, stock water, fire fighting), and consents cannot be granted for in stream use.

                      Water is not owned, but the rights to use the water in various ways are owned. Some of these rights the State alienates to individuals, and others it effectively retains in its ownership. In practice the retained rights to water represent those which various other stakeholders in society have an interest – such as the ecological values, the fishery, amenity values etc.

                      Property rights of Maori are less clear. As noted above they would appear to have aboriginal title to water under customary use, but how this translates in practice is not well established. Kaitiakitanga is protected as a section 7 matter, giving it equal status to a number of other matters including development.’

                    • Yeah Felix which is why I prefaced it with:
                      “Forgive me if I am wrong..”

                      i.e. I could be wrong.

                      But that’s alright Felix, I’ll ignore your seeping scum. 

                    • felix

                      “Forgive me if I’m wrong”

                      =/=

                      “Forgive me if I make shit up, selectively quote, try to hide the fact by not linking, and then pretend it never happened when caught out”

                  • Why would I link to water pricing? 

                • rather than the one we live by here and were talking about.

                  Which one is that?

                  Ahhh fuck it, don’t even bother – I can do without yet another pointless discuss with McFlock. 

    • felix 6.4

      Just to be clear, you do want to sell these water assets as per National’s plan, right?

    • “that this is an extorion attempt” well you got that right just the wrong way round – tangata whenua are taking the claim and even though the PRIME MINISTER said he could disregard any findings anyway – how’s that for a smack in the face eh – most would wither at that step but tangata whenua are staying the course. They are doing it for themselves and for us. That is courage. That is integrity and that is honour. You know nothing pete george but i’m sure that won’t stop you turning it all around so you can talk about yourself.

      • OneTrack 6.5.1

        They are doing it for themselves. You might not be so supportive when you start getting the bills or have to pay to swim in a river, etc?

        Rhetorical question – when is NZ going to get over this apartheid stuff and all start moving forward instead of always looking in the rear view mirror?

    • Pascal's bookie 6.6

      Pete.

      1. I don’t think it’s a very hard concept at all. We live in a world where ideas can be owned for goodness sake and electronic frequencies, and lord knows what all else.

      2. The timing is based on the fact that the government is seeking to sell. Should they wait untill after that is done?

      On extortion; isn’t that word usually used when someone threatens someone with unpleasent consequences unless they hand over something that is rightfully theirs?

      For example, if someone was to say hint that there might be terrible things unleashed if a group of people didn’t give up their claim to, for example, water rights. Would that create a ‘perception’ of extortion?

      Personally, I think you, and the PM, should be careful lest you create a situation where it is difficult not to percieve that you are a bunch of race baiting pricks prepared to unleash a racial shitfight, and deprive NZ citizens of their legal rights, in order to get their way politically.

      • Pete George 6.6.1

        And Labour needs to be very careful they don’t help unleash a racial shitfight, and deprive NZ citizens of their legal rights, in order to get their way politically.

        Siding with water rights action for perceived short term political gain on asset sales may make things very tricky for Labour – and for New Zealand – if the water rights get traction. They’re unlikely to be solved quickly, and quite possibly Labour will lead Government while it is being addressed.

        • freedom 6.6.1.1

          wow Pete, you are really losing the plot

          Since you are so sage and generous with your opinions, why are you so afraid of answering in an adult and direct manner the few simple questions that are regularly put to you ?

          Could it have something to do with you falling apart like a toddler whose broken their toy and wants to blame it on their younger sibling every time your sycophantic party-lines are shown up for the misanthropic toxins they are?

        • felix 6.6.1.2

          You’ve got your parties and motives entirely backwards.

          Keeping our assets isn’t a “short term political gain” – selling them is a short term fiscal one.

          And I’m not scared of racists, Pete. Do your worst.

        • Pascal's bookie 6.6.1.3

          nasty smear Pete.

          the fact is the claim is to be heard.

          the fact is it may have an impact on the sales process if the Government can’t work it out.

          There is no need for it to become a racial issue at all. But you and the PM, with your extortion comments, seem to be heading that way.

          What rights are NZers being deprived of by the case being brouight Pete, which you refer to in your comment?

          It appears that you can’t answer any point I made, so you just switched some owrds around in the hope that it might work both ways.

          So how does it?

          If iwi have rights to the water, then how does it ‘deprive other NZers of what was legally theirs’ if those rights are upheld?

          • mickysavage 6.6.1.3.1

            Good point PB

            Petey

            Do you:

            1. Accept the Treaty of Waitangi is an important constitutional document
            2. Accept that it preserved to Maori their Taonga?
            3. Accept that unless stolen or confiscated or sold thest Taonga remain in the ownership of Iwi?

            Just asking.

            And nasty smear. Labour has not declared a position. If you are looking for good old dog whistling red neck rascism look no further than the Government you support.

            • Pete George 6.6.1.3.1.1

              In general I accept all three points.

              But ownership of water, like air, can’t be pinned down. The water that was in New Zealand in 1840 could be anywhere now. The water that’s here today came from the Tasman Sea, the tropical Pacific, the southern ocean. That in turn came from elsewhere in an endless cycle.

              Do you accept that rain that falls doesn’t have accompanying deeds of ownership?

              • Straw man argument Petey.

                The claims are as much about the river beds as the water. Just like local Councils can charge for their pipes and the supply of water it seems to me that Maori have certainly a very arguable case that as they own the riverbeds they should be permitted to exercise some rights over the water that flows through those riverbeds.

                Limiting the discussion to water idiverts the argument away from what the application is actually about.

              • Pascal's bookie

                That’s what the courts will be deciding Pete. For myself, I can’t see why it’s any more problematic that owning ideas, which are much more ephemeral things than water flows.

                Now hos about you adress this idea about extortion.

                How can iwi be extorting NZers if they are are asking the courts to rule on whether or not the crown extinguished their rights?

                If you can’t explain that, then would you agree that claiming they are extorting people is unhelpful to say the least?

                • Maori Water Rights on Marae Investigates

                  The Co-leader of the Maori Council says he’s confident the Council’s water right claim will derail the Government’s plan for State asset sales.

                  The Co-leader of the Maori Council says he’s confident the Council’s water right claim will derail the Government’s plan for State asset sales.

                  Maanu Paul:“Once we get a decision from the Tribunal that says, yes Māori have proprietorial interests in water – Government go and negotiate with Māori, a cost will be incurred. Immediately overnight the shares will halve.”

                  http://community.scoop.co.nz/2012/07/maori-water-rights-on-marae-investigates/

                  That sounds like trying to play one issue off against another with a threat of financial loss.

                  Rawiri Taonui: At the moment the Crown is trying to keep the issue of SOE sales and Māori water rights separate but we’ve seen comments from Bill English and John Key about preferential shares or buy back shares that will go to Māori and that tell us that they understand the issues aren’t separate and it’s going to be very interesting to watch.

                  And financial gain by leveraging one issue against another.

                  • McFlock

                    Jim wants to hit me.
                    I do not want to be hit.
                    I say “Jim, if you hit me I will hit you”.
                    Jim does not want to be hit.
                    Jim does not hit me.
                         
                    Horrible fucking me, pitting one issue against the other.

                  • Pascal's bookie

                    But how is that extortion.

                    They either have legal water rights or they do not. If they do, then they are entitled to have them respected. The issues are linked. the link isn’t fanciful, it’s real. If they have the water right, there are consequences. Pointing out those consequences is just pointing out what the right they hold, means.

                    That’s not extortion Pete.

                    You should probably just retract the allegation if you can’t provide any basis for it.

                    But you won’t, even though that gives rise to an impression that your claims are all about the politics of it.

                    • It’s full of politics – that’s the problem.

                      If water rights were dealt with by the Waiangi Tribunal separately on their own merits then they would stand a better chance of a fair and untainted hearing. But it has been included as a part of the asset circus. That may backfire.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      So your claim of ‘extortion’ is full of politics and that’s a problem but it’s all someone elses fault?

                      WTF?

                  • Pascal's bookie

                    Perhaps an analogy might help.

                    Imagine I’m trying to sell a house, and you are pretty sure that the house is actually yours.

                    Let me know how it goes from there, and let me know when you get to the part where you are extorting me.

              • Uturn

                It’s related to whakapapa. Several levels of heaven, the earth, the air the sea. The original Mother and Father and their Children interacted with humans and created an element of the divine in maori/humans. Just like the Angel and Mary, just like Greek gods and demi-gods. As with a western or Greek god, it doesn’t matter if a particular water molecule changes state over time, the element of the divine is still present. A god can use any molecule of matter they like, outside of reference to time. The link to the people is never broken and gaurdianship remains intact.

                In modern pakeha thought processes, there is no equivalent for maori gaurdianship. So “ownership” has become the closest term for use. That there is no direct translation does not mean there is no connection that is just as strong, if not stronger than a “property” perspective, it just means we can’t name it in english concepts.

                • Bored

                  Guardianship versus ownership (title) is one of the primary reasons the Bards in western Scotland were suppressed from the time of James 1, leading eventually to the ejection of the people from their land. The bards like the Maori kept an oral tradition that referred to lineage and tradition (as opposed to paper title and property). To get rid of the bards was to get rid of customary shared title in favour of codified individual property rights sanctioned by central authority.

                  Sounds a bit like the Maori challenge and why the Treaty causes so much consternation.

                  • Uturn

                    Yep, as you illustrate, there is no excuse for not understanding the perspective via analogy, as Pete tries to do in his first question in post #6. To my eye there is no consternation necessary over “ownership” or “guardianship” terms, because these days it is a matter of power structures: One party wants to take something from the other party and would prefer not to have to feel like they don’t have total control. Simple as that. Too often pakeha don’t realise they are inter-related to maori and their world view whether they acknowledge it or not. Solution is obvious, but illuminating the solution in the minds of individuals is difficult.

                    By pushing back against pakeha imbalances, maori are actually saving pakeha from themselves. While pakeha fail to see this and disrespect their efforts, maori will lose whatever they do. That they make the efforts is an example of great humility and sacrifice, no matter how much money a few groups might make in the process. If they give up fighting before pakeha collectively wake up to reality, it will be the beginning of “unexpected” social troubles that we’ll blame on everything except our own doing.

                    • Good comment uturn. Yes the interrelatedness is underrated, which is strange considering we are all in the same waka.

                      Ani Mikaere, during her Bruce Jesson Memorial Lecture said “For pakeha to gain legitimacy here, it is they who must place their trust in Māori, not the other way around.” I hope we are moving closer to that.

                    • vto

                      Wouldn’t mind taking a few things up in them last few posts uturn and marty mars but alas no time at this time perhaps another time. In one short sentence though – it appears your comments elsewhere, pointing out that the point from which people point tends to be the most descriptive of their view, are perhaps the most applicable here.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      Ani Mikaere, during her Bruce Jesson Memorial Lecture said “For pakeha to gain legitimacy here, it is they who must place their trust in Māori, not the other way around.”

                      A link to the complete document is useful for it is useful reading.

                      http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/iwi-am04.pdf

                      I posted here some years ago and haven’t changed my mind since that we should have an equal number of Maori and non-maori seats in this country – it’s called a partnership.

                    • Thanks for that DOS, yes the whole speech is essential reading.

                  • weka

                    Interesting Bored. Anything further I can read about that?

                • Sam Hall

                  Regretably, “the christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad”-one of my heroes.

                  following some of the issues raised by difference politics can sure drive you to madness though…

              • mike e

                Peters Groupie Land didn’t have ownership till man invented ownership.

      • deuto 6.6.2

        As usual PG posted the same post (6 above) on KB as here, but he omitted the last sentence that he included in the KB one which clarifies his position further:

        I think we need to stand up and speak up quickly on this, and not just moan and wait until it’s too late.

        Which is exactly what the Maori Council etc are seeking to do with the urgent Waitangi Tribunal hearing. The water rights issue is not a new one; it has been simmering away for years without resolution. The partial assets sale of energy assets using water for power generation has triggered the urgent action for resolution.

        And here is my version of PG’s post at 6.6.1

        And National and UF need to be very careful they don’t unleash a shitfight, and deprive NZ citizens of their legal rights, in order to get their way politically.

        Opposing water rights action for perceived short term political gain on asset sales may make things very tricky for National and UF as the water rights get traction. They’re unlikely to be solved quickly, and quite possibly Labour/Greens will lead Government while it is being addressed.

    • Uturn 6.7

      No no, Pete. Refusing to even attempt to understand another person’s culture and viewpoint, as far as an outsider can, and instead quickly falling back to judgement based only on your own ignorant views is wrong. It’s the gateway to racism at worst and common dictatorial politics at best.

    • Bored 6.8

      PG, you are thinking totally in your cultural context, pakeha with the associated history of property rights. It may surprise you that the Maori who signed the Treaty were thinking about how they perceived property and this was almost certainly a different concept to the pakeha.

      It may surprise you that the Maori may be thinking that extorting water rights is wrong under the cultural concepts that they had when they signed the Treaty. As to timing the Government made the call to force the issue by attempting to sell, the objection was already on the table. As to principle, the Government and by association your buddy Dunce appear to be moving in an unprincipled manner, especially with regard to Treaty obligations.

      As for Key, he benefited from Labours stance on the Foreshore and Sea Bed, if he wont see the link its not because he cant see it, it is entirely doctrinaire payback to his funders.

      • Logie97 6.8.1

        Time to remind PG of one of his leader’s public stances.


        Protest calls for end to claims on foreshore
        NZ Herald Tuesday July 29, 2003
        More than 500 people took to the main street of Nelson yesterday in protest over the issue of Maori claims to the foreshore and seabed. Carrying placards saying “Whites have rights too”, “When do we stop giving?” and “One law for all New Zealanders”, the march left Wakatu Square shortly after noon. Protesters chanted “Foreshores for all” as they marched to the Church Steps, where they heard speeches from organisers United Future leader Peter Dunne and Nelson National MP Nick Smith.

        There you go Petey Boy. I am sorry but the article no longer shows the grandstanding photograph of the Dunne Boy clambering into a sailing dinghy …

        • mike e 6.8.1.1

          No he was found clinging to a small bouy petey bouy

        • marty mars 6.8.1.2

          Good stuff logie97 and when combined with deuto at 6.6.2 shows the real agenda of the pete – racial division and anger against others – and this is not the first time the pete has done this, nor the second – shame on you the pete.

  7. CHECK THIS OUT FOLKS! THE INFORMED AND CONSIDERED OPINION OF PROF. PREM SIKKA ON ‘THE SCANDAL-RIDDEN UK BANKING SYSTEM’!

    “I have an article on the website of The Conversation. It comments on the banking scandals and argues that the UK political institutions are weak and therefore durable reforms are a long way off.

    The article is titled “Durable change a long way off for scandal-ridden UK banking system” and is available at

    https://theconversation.edu.au/durable-change-a-long-way-off-for-scandal-ridden-uk-banking-system-8129

    You are most welcome to add comments to stimulate the debate.

    As always, there is more on the AABA website ( http://www.aabaglobal.org/ )

    Regards

    Prem Sikka
    Professor of Accounting
    Centre for Global Accountability
    Essex Business School
    University of Essex
    Colchester, Essex CO4 3SQ, UK
    Office Tel: +44(0)1206 873773
    Office Fax: +44 (01206) 873429
    AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org/

    • Bored 7.1

      No never, I read the MSM and it is a “conspiracy theory”!

      • freedom 7.1.1

        the bosses must be scrambling left right and center
        selecting junior staffers to blame it on

        • travellerev 7.1.1.1

          The first court case in the LIBOR (London interbank offered rate) crime wave was started in August 2011. One of the banks involved was the Bank of America where John Key has most of his paper wealth.
          Here is the court paper:
          Question: Why isn’t John Key fuming on behalf of us that we have been ripped of by his ex-bankster mates?
          Answer: Because he is complicit in ripping us off until this very day!

  8. aerobubble 8

    Another assumption? The idea that the global isn’t warming because this would mean
    south island glaciers would grow not shrink, because glaciers would grow worldwide, doesn’t
    make any sense. Obviously changing patterns of rain fall, and or drought, will also means
    some glaciers will retreat and some grow. But I doubt regrowth of glaciers would take place
    until the greatest likely glacier of them all would have shrunk. That of the north polar sea and Greenland, which would irrevocable (for thousands of years) change the patterns of glacier growth.
    We would return to a iced over europe and north Asia continent, and return to the pattern
    of coastal warming that allowed the first Americians to cross from Asia into N.America.

    Being an island I suspect a warmer NZ in a couple of centuries.

    • Vicky32 8.1

      Being an island I suspect a warmer NZ in a couple of centuries.
       

      I am very sorry I shan’t live to see it! Mosquitoes are a thing of the past here, (there’ve been none since 2007, flies also) and I am freezing cold for 3/4 of the year. *
      As Jared Diamond pointed out in Guns, Germs and Steel, most of New Zealand is too cold to be habitable without technology. As for global warming, bring it on I say! 
       
      * I anticipate screeching about ‘anecdotal evidence’, to which I can only say that if you’re not freezing your nuts off, you must be either very comfortably off and able to afford heating, or a passionate rugby fan, used from birth, to cold and regarding it as fun.

      • Carol 8.1.1

        Out west in Auckland I still had mozzies in the summer – not as many as most years, but they’re still around – plenty of flies come cruising in around meal time in the summer – even now, if I’m cooking in the middle of the day and the sun is shining.

      • Te Reo Putake 8.1.2

        “most of New Zealand is too cold to be habitable without technology”
         
        That’ll be news to the tangata whenua, V32.

        • Vicky32 8.1.2.1

          That’ll be news to the tangata whenua, V32.

          Take it up with Jared Diamond then, not me! Carol, you’re jolly lucky! I’d trade flies for having to wear four layers inside, any day.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.2

          Pretty sure you’ll find the nomads of Siberia/Alaska would be shocked about this as well.

          Of course, It all depends upon what is meant by technology. I’m pretty sure both the Maori of the South Island and the Eskimos actually did have the necessary technology to survive in such extreme conditions. The basic knowledge of how to build houses, wrap up warm and light fires. Without those then, yeah, it’s entirely possible that survival wouldn’t be possible in either location.

          The problem really is that when people think about technology they tend to think about computers and other modern devices and not the knowledge that’s been around for thousands of years such as striking a flint to light a fire.

          • Vicky32 8.1.2.2.1

            Of course, It all depends upon what is meant by technology.I’m pretty sure both the Maori of the South Island and the Eskimos actually did have the necessary technology to survive in such extreme conditions. The basic knowledge of how to build houses, wrap up warm and light fires.

            Well, no shit Sherlock, that’s exactly what I (and Jared Diamond meant). So those people who got their knickers in a knot, or startingh  salivating excitedly, red-eyed and already with that little vein in their forehead throbbing – thinking they’d proved a charge of evil racism against me, can just STFU…

            • Vicky32 8.1.2.2.1.1

              BTW, getting very fed up with being told I am exhibiting “harmful behavior” (sic) – and having to enter a capture and endure a lecture every time I want to post. Subtle censorship? (We hope you’ll lose patience and go away).
              Is anyone else experiencing this? Last time I asked I was ignored. Fed up with it.

              • QoT

                Yes, Vicky, it’s totally an evil plot against you. Lprent, you see, has deliberately included a captcha form on The Standard which detects boring self-righteousness. (Wait, that can’t be the answer, or Petey G would be complaining too.)

                It could be that you continually embed links in your post in a way which screams “sp4m!!!!!!” to a basic filter. But that would mean the world wasn’t out to get you.

                • Vicky32

                  It could be that you continually embed links in your post in a way which screams “sp4m!!!!!!” to a basic filter.

                  Sigh, you are such a silly bitch, aren’t you? That would make sense if I did embed links, but I almost never do, as you’d know if you read my posts. (Which you don’t actually do, despite your reflex attacks whenever you see my name.. Issues much?)
                  I was in an impatient mood yesterday, and very cross about the sheer number of times it kept happening, when for the most part, my comments were very bland. I apologise* for my attitude, as I was in a general frustrated mood… 
                   
                  *Don’t get all excited, QoT, it’s a general apology, not one specifically for you!

                  • QoT

                    Sigh, you are such a silly bitch, aren’t you?

                    Vicky, I have seen you whinge about being sp4m-filtered twice. Both times were after you embedded links in your post. Right back at ya.

                    I make no apology for “reflex attacks” on you when you’re trying to imply that lprent is deliberately trying to silence your ~wonderful~ contributions to this blog. And believe me, I ignore a hell of a lot of the crap you write.

  9. prism 9

    Can this blog survive Peter George? It seems that he attracts so much response because people always react to him – can’t let him be. I’m jealous – I put thought into stuff that seems important to us all but does not suit a quick, smart alec rejoinder. It seems that personalities, blog celebrities in fact, draw input instead of valuable discussion about the matters of today which we dearly need to address.

    The blog is dominated by Peter George and why can’t people think of their own ideas and concerns and describe them to us rather than just input in reaction to what could just as well be a computer virus.

    • Carol 9.1

      I agree with the DFTT idea, prism. I usually don’t read that stuff, and prefer to read your stuff, even though I don’t necessarily respond.

      • prism 9.1.1

        Carol – Thanks, same applies to me.

      • R 9.1.2

        +1. I don’t get why people can’t seem to understand that engaging with (i.e. being seen to react to) poor behaviour simply encourages more poor behaviour. Clearly they’ve never been to school (there’s one in every schoolroom) or raised a domestic animal. It’s the replies which perpetuate/exacerbate trolling, not the troll: every time he gets a response or a mention he is encouraged to continue. It’s not rocket science!

    • Half Crown Millionare 9.2

      Why do you people answer this clown? With a bit of luck if you ignored him he might go away. On this left leaning site, there has been many a right winger giving a valid intelligent discussion from their side of the political spectrum, but this clown talks shit. I have not seen an intelligent original discussion put up by him.
      Because of this I for one for a long time have completely ignored his posts. Like his leader Dung and to quote them both he’s a nonsense and has nothing of importance to say.

      • McFlock 9.2.1

        A) being ignored doesn’t stop him. He just assumes it means he’s right.
        B) there’s always the possibility that someone on a bad day might think he has a point.
        C) it’s funny when he slowly gets painted into a corner, starts to try to flail distractions to all and sundry, and then flips around to something completely contradictory. Like with the water rights thing. 

        • Carol 9.2.1.1

          But, but…. the advice from a psychologist says, they are attention-seeking and best ignored.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/7245308/Internet-trolls-have-low-self-esteem

          Though I think this article also tends to make bullying an integral part of being a tr0ll. To me it’s anyone disrupting and diverting discussions – attention-getting is more apt, IMO.

          • QoT 9.2.1.1.1

            That psychologist has clearly never been on the receiving end of some of the shit people get thrown at them by “trolls”. “Just ignore the bully” is the advice of people who don’t want to have to confront the issues which permit the bullying in the first place (and that’s as true of workplace/schoolyard/”real life” bullying as it is online.)

            • marty mars 9.2.1.1.1.1

              I agree. I can mostly let what the troll says go, but when he starts pontificating about Māori I cannot leave his distortions and misrepresentations to just sit there. Sorry but I just cannot stand that shit and as much as I can, i’ll fight it.

      • Tiger Mountain 9.2.2

        PFDs –no not some new Adobe software, but rather, “Pete Free Days” are a treasured experience for some.

        • prism 9.2.2.1

          quote by Hughes Mearns:
          ‘Yesterday upon the stair, I met a man who wasn’t there,
          He wasn’t there again today, Oh, how I wish he’d go away’

          The conundrum of the situation.

          • deuto 9.2.2.1.1

            LOL – well said. And I totally agree with your comment at 9 above; just haven’t had the time to reply.

    • Bored 9.3

      “Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You’re my only hope.”

  10. The loss of 220 KiwiRail jobs is significant, not only does this represent 220 families that will be losing incomes, but the risks to the safety of our rail infrastructure must surely be a concern. We have seen the damage done to the KiwiFruit industry through cuts in our biosecurity and when our rail systems haven’t returned to pre-privatisation standards the logic behind this decision escapes me.
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/kiwirail-job-cuts-cause-unnecessary.html

    • Bored 10.1

      I fear that making a profit from Kiwirail requires the loss of rail maintenance jobs, the capital “asset” becomes more run down and less safe. When the train crash occurs who will be blamed?

    • Vicky32 10.2

      The loss of 220 KiwiRail jobs is significant, not only does this represent 220 families that will be losing incomes, but the risks to the safety of our rail infrastructure must surely be a concern

      There was worrying talk on 3 News about selling Kiwirail. Key said something like ‘we have no such intention’, which may well mean the opposite. (First, we had to hear about TomCat though)

  11. freedom 11

    Where now is the militant urgency that saw heavily armed Police make his pregnant wife stand in the rain after they kicked in his doors and helicopters flew overhead ?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/7252387/Dotcom-extradition-hearing-delayed

    + on a completely unrelated matter, anyone else wondering which Vinyard the “Elvin Wine’ came from for The Hobbit cast ?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7237319/Hobbit-Wrap-Party-A-Hot-Ticket

  12. Sam Hall 12

    Does this blog censor nihilists???
    Afraid like everybody else??

    • Tiger Mountain 12.1

      nihilists? who cares man….

    • Uturn 12.2

      If your comments have not been immediately published, sometimes there is a delay for unknown e-reasons. If you’ve written a trigger word, you post will say it is under moderation.

    • Hayden 12.3

      Just don’t tick the “I am a nihilist” box on the comment form and you’ll be fine.

      • McFlock 12.3.1

        Can I tick the “I am not a nihilist” box?
        Or would I just be in denihil? 

    • Te Reo Putake 12.4

      “Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.”

  13. The Maori Party is going postal about John Key’s statements about the Waitangi Tribunal.  It seems they do not like the idea that the tribunal set up to ensure justice for treaty settlements was rubbished by the PMONZ.
     
    My impression of the MP has improved.
     
    Interesting times …

    • McFlock 13.1

      I liked Harawira comparing it to buying a car off someone who can’t produce the ownership papers.
           
      I sure as shit wouldn’t buy a used power station off Key. Would you?

      • Pete George 13.1.1

        It’s more like trying to sell a car but someone tries to stop you filling the radiator unless they get part of the sale price.

        • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1.1

          Perfect analogy, Pete. You’re quite a deep thinker, aren’t you?

        • felix 13.1.1.2

          I guess that person who won’t let you fill the radiator would be the person with the water.

          Is that what you mean, Pete?

        • mickysavage 13.1.1.3

          someone tries to stop you filling the radiator unless they get part of the sale price

          Maybe if that person owned the property that you were on trying to siphon water out of his garden hose and maybe if you had previously promised to let him keep his water …

    • fender 13.2

      Funny how we get impressed by the MP when they behave like a Maori Party should.

      Guess we arn’t use to anyone but Mana doing that.

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    Boots Theory | 21-09
  • She saw John Key on TV and decided to vote!
    . . NZ, Wellington, 15 September – ‘Tina’* is 50, a close friend,  and one of the “Missing Million” from the last election. In fact, ‘Tina’ has never voted in her life.  Not once. In ‘Tina’s’ own words, politics has...
    Frankly Speaking | 21-09
  • She saw John Key on TV and decided to vote!
    . . NZ, Wellington, 15 September – ‘Tina’* is 50, a close friend,  and one of the “Missing Million” from the last election. In fact, ‘Tina’ has never voted in her life.  Not once. In ‘Tina’s’ own words, politics has...
    Frankly Speaking | 21-09
  • The best result John Key could have got
    John Key got his best result: a majority on his own or with young David Seymour if National’s vote drops on the special votes as much as the half per cent it dropped in 2011. He didn’t need the Conservatives...
    Colin James | 21-09
  • Economics and the Puhoi Warkworth Board of Inquiry
    The final decision from the Board of Inquiry confirming the Puhoi to Warkworth toll road was published on 12th September but, what with one thing and another, I’m only now getting round to writing about it. The final report is largely unchanged from the...
    Transport Blog | 21-09
  • Bugger!
    This election campaign was a roller-coaster of unexpected revelations and controversy. For the Greens this meant our strategy of running a clean campaign, sticking to a clear plan and releasing properly costed, practical policies never made the impression it should...
    Local Bodies | 21-09
  • Fair Play
    Article – Alexander Lowe The Australian Football League (AFL) has cancelled a sponsorship deal between its affiliated league in Europe and Royal Brunei Airlines. AFL had earlier this year pledged to combat eliminate homophobia in sports so discovery of sponsorship...
    Its our future | 21-09
  • Gordon Campbell on Labour’s very bad year
    While Labour leader David Cunliffe still appears to be in denial about the extent of Saturday night’s debacle, there was hardly a single redeeming feature about the election results for the centre-left. Even the victory by Labour’s Stuart Nash in...
    Gordon Campbell | 21-09
  • Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose
    I see suggestions that the National Party somehow manipulated results to gain their unprecedented win as an extension of “dirty politics”. I have no doubt that there has been a vindictive streak in ministers’ ranks for some time as this...
    Closing the Gap | 21-09
  • 2014 SkS Weekly Digest #38
    "Today, we march... In Berlin, London, Amsterdam, Oslo, Rome, Stockholm, Paris, Madrid, Porto, Geneva, Ljubliana, Budapest and so many other places." - 350.0rg SkS Highlights As to be expected, Dana's The 97% v the 3% – just how much global warming are...
    Skeptical Science | 21-09
  • Hard News: Five further thoughts
    1. Christ, what a shellacking. Click around Harkanwal Singh's Herald interactive. In electorate after electorate, polling place after polling place, National won at least a plurality of the votes. Even where voters collectively chose to return their Labour MPs to...
    Public Address | 21-09
  • The law of unintended consequences. Data security edition.
    This report from Flashpoint: ‘Measuring the Impact of the Snowden Leaks on the Use of Encryption by Online Jihadists’ (available here as web page or PDF) concludes (SPOILER:) Meh, not so much. The Flashpoint report recounts how the use of...
    The Paepae | 21-09
  • A healthy dose of humble pie
    I got one thing right about this election. I managed not to do anything as misguided as publicly state a prediction that National would get anything like as low a vote total as 44% ... as for instance, did Bryce Edwards. Yep,...
    Pundit | 21-09
  • Alas no mystery – it’s voter apathy
      There once was a PM named Key Re-elected with a majority The left fell flat What happened Matt? Alas  it’s voter apathy...
    Politically Corrected | 21-09
  • Labour must change
     Labour's problems can't just be fixed by a switch at the top. Change requires more than that. It must challenge the intellectual, organisational and cultural fundamentals of what it means to be Labour....
    Pundit | 21-09
  • Looking Ahead
    Win or lose, there are never any final battles in politics. A defeat simply means the firing of the starting gun for the next round in a never-ending struggle. And, especially for the left, it is the struggle that matters....
    Bryan Gould | 21-09
  • Left in tatters.
    A while back I wrote a post arguing that the NZ Left was in serious disarray. Various Left pontificators fulminated from the depths of their revolutionary armchairs against my views, denouncing me for being defeatist. I responded as politely as...
    Kiwipolitico | 21-09
  • Psephology-o-rama: Hangover nerdery edition
    I was really privileged to be able to work with the TV3 election night team last night, providing some quantitative analysis on the results as they came in. One of the things we put together was a tool that could...
    Polity | 21-09
  • The Key to a 4th term
    The coming days will see a welter of words on the reasons for the spectacular success of National and the failure of the broad left. As a 'pundit', I might as well add my views....
    Pundit | 20-09
  • Democracy 101
    Earlier this week Scottish voters participated in their independence referendum. There are many, many points to be made about this. Most notably, however, is the fact that the percentage of people turning out to vote in this democratic process was around...
    My Thinks | 20-09
  • Gutted
    OK, so 24.7% is a disaster. Three years ago we were saying 27.5% was a disaster, and this is substantially worse again. It is true that the government had some economy-based tail winds this time round. But the government also...
    Polity | 20-09
  • What it all means for the Labour Party
    An analysis of what went wrong and why, and what it means....
    Imperator Fish | 20-09
  • NZ General Election results
    Congratulations to the winners, commiserations to those who missed out. These are the results as at close of counting 1:10am today. This is where the rubber hits the road in a democracy. Check electionresults.govt.nz for latest results. {Fill the in...
    The Paepae | 20-09
  • Hard News: The sole party of government
    It turned out to be a great night for the National Party and its leader. For everyone else, the 2014 election result ran from disappointment to disaster.Even New Zealand First, which doubled the support it was showing in polls only...
    Public Address | 20-09
  • Electoral Fraud, Hacking, Law Breaking = National Winning?
    No matter which party you support, how does it make one tiny bit of sense that a party who in their own internal polling was only getting 42% support just days before the election can jump to 48%? Also, when...
    An average kiwi | 20-09
  • Election results, my first thoughts and so on
    So, the 2014 election results are in, with an emphatic win for National. Six years into his Prime Ministership, and having just been re-elected for a third term, John Key has achieved what very few NZ politicians have done before...
    Transport Blog | 20-09
  • Lessons to be learned
    As the gloating on the right wing and throughout the mainstream media begins, it's important that those who stand up for democracy don't lose heart.For a start, every defeat you can walk away from has at least one silver lining....
    The Jackal | 20-09
  • Three more years
    This election result is not the end of the world for me. I don’t have kids. I don’t have to worry about whether their school will be closed, or privatised, whether they have shoes to wear or a lunch to...
    Boots Theory | 20-09
  • The 2014 election result
    I have a few thoughts about the result last night. They are in no particular order so I’m just going to type them up and see how they fall. National appear to have won an outright majority despite being shown...
    My Thinks | 20-09
  • 2014 SkS Weekly News Roundup #38B
    2014 on track to be hottest year on record Arctic Sea Ice to reach sixth lowest extent on record China's dirty coal ban causes waves "If we want to prevent conflicts, we have to address climate change now" India's push...
    Skeptical Science | 20-09
  • ROUT!
    Triumphant! John Key leads National to its greatest victory since 1951, routing the forces of the Left in the process.  Progressive New Zealanders, we have some very serious thinking to do.This posting is exclusive to the Bowalley Road blogsite....
    Bowalley Road | 20-09
  • The Greens’ new caucus
    Despite goals of 15% and 20 MPs, the Greens only managed to just scrape over 10%, with their only new MP being James Shaw, with Steffan Browning missing out on getting back into Parliament. The Greens traditionally pick up an...
    Progress report | 20-09
  • Brief thoughts on National’s historic victory
    The National Party is an incredibly well resourced, well managed, professional political party and it turns out that these things counted for a lot last night. The phone was not off the hook for Labour. Twelve months ago, just after Cunliffe won...
    DimPost | 20-09
  • Brief thoughts on National’s historic victory
    The National Party is an incredibly well resourced, well managed, professional political party and it turns out that these things counted for a lot last night. The phone was not off the hook for Labour. Twelve months ago, just after Cunliffe won...
    DimPost | 20-09
  • Labour’s new caucus
    It’s brutal. My expectations weren’t great, but this loss is much worse than I predicted. Labour’s worst defeat since 1922. Here is Labour’s new caucus… MP Seat David Cunliffe New Lynn David Parker List Grant Robertson Wellington Central Annette King...
    Progress report | 20-09
  • Five stages of left: a visual post election representation
      (Image source: distractify – Stuck Cats)...
    Politically Corrected | 20-09
  • Legal Beagle: Election 2014: The Special Votes
    We have a provisional result, and now await the official result after special votes are counted. Special votes are:those cast overseas;those cast on polling day by people voting outside their electorate;those cast by people who enrolled after the printed electoral...
    Public Address | 20-09
  • 2017
    .   . Bugger. Ok. We pick ourselves up, dust off, and  start working for a victory in 2017 (or earlier) tomorrow. . . = fs =Filed under: Various Tagged: 2017 Elections...
    Frankly Speaking | 20-09
  • 2017
    .   . Bugger. Ok. We pick ourselves up, dust off, and  start working for a victory in 2017 (or earlier) tomorrow. . . = fs =Filed under: Various Tagged: 2017 Elections...
    Frankly Speaking | 20-09
  • The Specials
    Based on the way the Special Votes fell in recent Elections, we might expect:- the Nats' Final Result to be about 0.5-0.7 points down, so perhaps around 47.5% or thereabouts- Labour to be up about 0.4 points, so around 25%-...
    Sub zero politics | 20-09
  • Legal Beagle: Election 2014: the no threshold counterfactual
    As I have done on election night of the last two elections, I present below the New Zealand House of Representatives, had the election been conducted with no threshold: National – 57 ACT – 1 United Future – 1 Conservatives – 5...
    Public Address | 20-09
  • Hold fast to your Mana – Harawira
    Hone Harawira today called on the voters of Tai Tokerau to hold fast to their mana, and not be dictated to by those party leaders who have ganged together to tell them how to vote. “I call on our people...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Media Advisory – Interview availability
    This is to advise all media that Hone Harawira will be available in Auckland tomorrow, Friday the 19th of September from 7am to 4pm for interviews relating to his recent press releases. If you are interested in interviewing Mr Harawira on...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Labour stands on proud record on Suffrage Day
    Women have come a long way in the 121 years since New Zealand became the first country to give them the vote on September 19 1893, but there is still more to do, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Carol Beaumont says....
    Labour | 18-09
  • Polling Booths asked to treat Maori voters with respect
    “Polling booths without Maori roll voting papers, Maori people not being offered assistance to vote, people getting sent from Whangarei to Wellsford to vote, Maori people getting turned away from voting because they didn’t have their ‘easy vote’ card, Maori...
    Mana | 17-09
  • Aussie Liberals embroiled in Key campaign
    John Key needs to explain why Australia’s Liberal Party is interfering in New Zealand domestic politics and is encouraging Kiwi voters across the ditch to vote for National just days out from the election, Labour’s campaign spokesperson Annette King says....
    Labour | 17-09
  • The MANA Plan for Beneficiaries and Income in Waiariki
    Median Personal Income for Waiariki is $21,700. Over 13,000 Maori who live in Waiariki rely upon a form of government benefit including the Unemployment Benefit, Sickness Benefit, Domestic Purpose Benefit and the Invalids Benefit. “If you’re lucky enough to have...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Māori development crucial to New Zealand’s future
    Labour recognises the concern of Māori about child poverty and the rising costs of living, and in Government will make a real difference to the wellbeing of whānau and iwi, Labour’s Māori Affairs spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says. “As our Māori...
    Labour | 16-09
  • MAORI PARTY – DON’T COMPLAIN … WALK
    “If the Maori Party are serious about stopping government spying on NZ citizens then they should tell the Prime Minister to either stop doing it or they will walk away” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira, on...
    Mana | 16-09
  • JOHN KEY SUPPORTING LABOUR
    “There is something really sick about a National Party Prime Minister coming out in support of a Labour candidate” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira, after hearing that John Key is urging voters to back Labour in...
    Mana | 16-09
  • SHUT DOWN THIS GOVT NOT KAITI WINZ – Nikora
    “I’m going to make it as hard for you to get help as I can” is Paula Bennett’s message to the people of Kaiti  said MANA candidate Te Hāmua Nikora today in response to the news that National will close...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Winegums make for better polling – Harawira
    I wanted to laugh when I saw the Native Affairs poll the other night (Hone Harawira 38%, Kelvin Davis 37%) because it was almost the same as the one they did back in 2011”, said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau...
    Mana | 16-09
  • The Leadership of MTS Lied – Harawira
    “Normally I’m happy to tell people that I was right but when I received the news about the staff cuts at Maori Television, I had nothing but sympathy for the three Maori media leaders who are going to be made...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Privileges Complaint Laid against Prime Minister – Harawira
    MANA Movement Leader and Te Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira has today lodged a Privileges Complaint with the Speaker regarding the Prime Ministers denials in parliament that he knew anything about Kim Dotcom before 2012. “Information made public today appears...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Sharples’ new appointments are out of order
    The new appointments to the Waitangi Tribunal announced by Dr Pita Sharples this morning are completely out of order given the election is just five days away, says Labour's State Services spokesperson, Maryan Street. “This Government continues to show disdain...
    Labour | 15-09
  • MANA Movement Housing Policy
    “When families are living in cars, garages, cockroach-infested caravans and three families to a house then we have a housing crisis”, said MANA leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira. “When you have a housing crisis for low-income...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Bigger than the Foreshore and Seabed – Sykes
    “Over the past week I have received some disturbing information that has led myself and a number of Maori lawyers to conclude that this National - Maori Party - ACT and United Future Government are going to put an end to both...
    Mana | 14-09
  • MANA wants Te Reo Māori petition fulfilled
    Hone Harawira, MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Annette Sykes, MANA candidate for Waiariki Te Hāmua Nikora, MANA candidate for Ikaroa Rāwhiti  “More than four decades have passed and the petition calling for Te Reo Māori in schools...
    Mana | 14-09
  • Primary focus on the critical issues
    A Labour Government will prioritise New Zealand’s agricultural sectors by recreating a Rural Affairs Minister and appointing a Primary Industry Council and a Chief Agricultural Adviser. Releasing Labour’s Primary Sector and Rural Affairs policies today, spokesperson Damien O’Connor says the...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Maori Television fears confirmed – Harawira
    ...
    Mana | 12-09
  • More ghost houses from National
    The Government’s desperate pre-election announcement of more ghost houses won’t fool Aucklanders wanting action on the housing crisis, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “These are ghost houses, to go with National’s ghost tax cut. Families cannot live in ghost...
    Labour | 12-09
  • National bows to union pressure over travel time
    National has reluctantly bowed to pressure from unions and adopted Labour’s fair and sensible policy to pay home support workers for the time they spend traveling between clients, Labour’s Associate Health spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “This decision is long overdue...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Predators on Poverty – Harawira
    “As poverty has ballooned out of control, the Predators on Poverty have emerged to suck the lifeblood from whole families and communities” said MANA Movement leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira. “They are deliberately targeting low-income areas, particularly those...
    Mana | 11-09
  • MANA Movement Policy Launch
    Predators on Poverty (pokie machines, alcohol outlets and loan sharks) 1pm, Thursday 11th September Corner Great South Road and Criterion Street Otahuhu Shopping Centre...
    Mana | 10-09
  • Eliminating Poverty – Sir Edmund Hillary Collegiate, Otara | Internet MAN...
    A campaign to Eliminate Poverty, Feed the Kids, build more houses, and create thousands of new jobs, was outlined by Internet MANA at a public meeting in Otara this evening. When MANA and the Internet Party first sat down to...
    Mana | 09-09
  • Housing in Waiariki – Sykes
    Fact:  Under this National-Maori Party-ACT-United Future Government 61% of Maori in Waiariki do not own their own home and nearly 70% of Maori rentals in Waiariki pay $200 or more per week. “Maori in Waiariki have low rates of home ownership...
    Mana | 09-09
  • Charter school crisis shows time to axe costly experiment
    Dysfunction from day one at a Northland charter school shows it is time to dump this costly and failed experiment by the National-ACT Government, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru received $27,000 in government funding...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Labour will crack down on loan sharks
    A Labour Government will crack down on predatory loan sharks by making it illegal both to charge exorbitant interest rates and to exploit uninformed borrowers, Labour’s Consumer Affairs Spokesperson Carol Beaumont says. Labour today released its Consumer Affairs policy which...
    Labour | 08-09
  • Let’s do the FEED before the weed
    “Last week I put out a very strongly worded email to my colleagues about an online promotion about cannabis law reform” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira “and I stand by that criticism today.” My concern was...
    Mana | 08-09
  • TE KAEA and NATIVE AFFAIRS live to fight another day
    “I understand that both the chair of the Board of Maori Television, Georgina Te Heuheu, and new CEO, Paora Maxwell, are now saying that my comments this morning about their plans to cut Te Kaea and Native Affairs, were wrong, and that...
    Mana | 08-09
  • How come the PM only pays 2.8% of his income in tax – Harawira
    “Before John Key talks about the piddling tax cuts he plans for low and middle income families today he needs to explain why he only pays 2.8% of his income on tax while a minimum wage worker pays 28% tax,”...
    Mana | 07-09
  • THE DEATH OF INDEPENDENCE FOR MAORI TV
    “If what I’m hearing is true, tomorrow Maori Television Service (MTS) will dump its news programme, Te Kaea, and staff will lose their jobs” said MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira “and the Minister of Maori...
    Mana | 07-09
  • Labour recommits to Pike River families
    An incoming Labour-led government will do everything possible to recover the bodies of the Pike River Miners and return them to their families, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “This tragedy and its aftermath has left the families of the 29...
    Labour | 06-09
  • Voting has started and still no tax plan or fiscal budget for voters to see
    "Even though voting for the election has already begun, National still refuses to provide any details of its proposed tax cuts. And Bill English admitted this morning that he won’t provide any specifics until after the election", Labour’s Finance spokesperson...
    Labour | 06-09
  • National’s partners’ tax plans cost at least $42 billion
    If National forms the next government its partners’ tax plans will cost the country at least $42 billion, and maybe as much as $50 billion, wreaking havoc with the books, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “National claims to be...
    Labour | 05-09
  • Labour: Providing more opportunities for young Kiwis
    A Labour Government will ensure every young Kiwi under the age of 20 is given the opportunity to be in work, education or training, and plans to develop a conservation apprenticeship scheme to help do that, Labour’s Youth Affairs spokesperson...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Candles out on teachers’ slice of birthday cake
    Today may be Novopay’s second birthday, but there’s little to celebrate, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Novopay has cost the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars already, and the cost is still climbing....
    Labour | 04-09
  • National’s blatant broadband pork barrelling misses the mark by a country...
    National’s blatant pork-barrelling ICT announcement today should reinforce a growing sceptical electorate’s view that they are all about the gift wrap and not the present, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Instead of addressing the real issues - the woeful...
    Labour | 04-09
  • More evidence of the need to clean up the system
    The latest release of emails and messages between disgraced Minister Judith Collins and blogger Cameron Slater are more evidence of the urgent need to clean up politics, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. "This new evidence confirms a near constant flow...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Labour commits to stable funding for voluntary sector
    A Labour Government will establish long-term funding and streamline contract accountability for community and voluntary groups, says Labour’s spokesperson for the sector Louisa Wall. Announcing Labour’s policy for the community and voluntary sector, she said this would give much greater...
    Labour | 04-09
  • Better trained and skilled workforce under Labour
    Labour is committed to a skilled workforce that benefits businesses as well as their workers, and will increase workplace training to improve productivity and drive innovation, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Labour believes the Government should support New Zealanders into...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will make renting a better option
    Labour will provide greater security of tenure for renters, and build more state and social housing, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour believes every kid deserves a decent start in life. That means a warm, dry and secure home....
    Labour | 03-09
  • At least 15 new taxes under National
    John Key is the last person to talk about creating taxes, presiding over a Government that has imposed at least 15 new taxes, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “John Key tried a novel line in the debate last night claiming...
    Labour | 03-09
  • Labour will strengthen New Zealand’s democracy
    A Labour Government will act quickly to protect and enhance New Zealand’s reputation as one of the most open and least corrupt countries in the world, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “The health of any democracy is improved by greater...
    Labour | 02-09
  • MANA Movement says tax cut on GST must be first priority – Minto
    “If Prime Minister John Key has money available for tax cuts then cutting GST must be the first priority”,  said MANA Movement Economic Justice Spokesperson John Minto. GST is a nasty tax on low-income families”, said Minto. “People in the...
    Mana | 02-09
  • The Maori Party’s Mana-Enhancing Relationship with National – Minto
    “First we had Cameron Slater and David Farrar backing Labour’s Kelvin Davis bid to unseat MANA Movement Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Hone Harawira.  Now we have Slater writing a pro-Te Ururoa Flavell article on his website, Whale...
    Mana | 02-09
  • There’s Only One Poll That Counts
    “One of the oldest sayings in politics is that there is only one poll that counts – the one on Election Day – and that’s the one that I am focusing on” remarked the MANA Movement candidate for Waiariki, Annette...
    Mana | 02-09
  • Local communities critical to Civil Defence
    Labour will focus on empowering New Zealand communities to be resilient in Civil Defence disasters, says Labour’s Civil Defence spokesperson Clare Curran. Announcing Labour’s Civil Defence policy, she says that Labour will work with schools, voluntary agencies and community groups...
    Labour | 02-09
  • Labour looks to long-life passports, gambling harm review
    A return to 10 year passports and a review of gambling laws are highlights of Labour’s Internal Affairs policy released today. “More than 15,000 New Zealanders signed a petition calling on the Government to revert to the 10 year system...
    Labour | 02-09
  • New Flag competition
    New Flag competition...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • No time for self-pity
    After 23 meetings across the largest non-Maori electorate in the country – almost all of which went fantastically, approx 4,500km on the odometer, positive MSM and social media coverage, and polling well, I admit my team and I headed to...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • The 30 second speech that could have saved the Moment of Truth
    As the dust settles and we struggle to understand what the bloody hell happened on Saturday, many point to Kim’s failure at the Moment of Truth to present his evidence. I think that Kim was poorly advised and that politics requires a...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Internet MANA and the 2014 election
    It was always going to be a hard task for Hone Harawira to hold onto his Te Tai Tokerau seat when the political establishment united in a coalition to defeat him and the chance for Internet MANA to bring more...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Unity in Action
    Yes the Left have taken a drubbing, but never mind, time to pick ourselves up off the floor, patch up our wound pride, dust ourselves off, cast around for our friends and allies, and re-enter the fray. Lots of work...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • A Fiji democratic mandate for the coup leader – what now for the media?
    Attorney-General Sayad-Khaiyum and Rear-Admiral (Ret) Voreqe Bainimarama’s Fiji First party is poised to lead the country in the next four years. Photo: Mads Anneberg, an AUT Pacific Media Centre student on internship in Suva with Repúblika Magazine and Pacific Scoop...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Why I voted Labour and why 2017 will be different
    As a 3nd and 5th generation Kiwi-Indian (depending on which side of the family we have to go with), my relationship with New Zealand is a special one. Like other New Zealanders who are not of the Caucasian variety, the...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Humble Pie
    Oh. My. God. This was a heartbreaking nightmare. I was wrong, horribly, horribly, horribly wrong. I honestly believed that the resources, the media attention, the vile toxic politics exposed by Dirty Politics and the mass surveillance lies would have seen...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Election 2014; A Post-mortem; a Wake; and one helluva hang-over
    .   . It would be fair to say that the results for Election 2014 did not go as anticipated. The Left has had a drubbing – and some of it was of our own making. In other aspects, there...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Voting turnout affected by bad weather?
    . . NZ, Upper Hutt, 20 September –  Cold, wet weather in the Hutt Valley, north of Wellington may be impacting on voter turn-out. A head-count of people visiting the Trentham School Voting Station in Moonshine Rd, Upper Hutt, indicated...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Final total of advance voting
    And the final total for the advance voting was a staggering 717,579 advance votes against 334,558 in 2011       Tonight, I’ll be watching the TV3 election coverage because I could bare Paul Henry’s smugness one inch more than Mike Hosking’s...
    The Daily Blog | 20-09
  • Vice article on NZ election
    Here is my Vice article on the NZ election....
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • The attempt to kill off Internet MANA
    It’s the last day of campaigning today and the long list of those attacking Internet MANA got longer yesterday with Winston Peters backing Labour candidate Kelvin Davis against the MANA Movement’s Hone Harawira. Davis is now supported by Labour, National,...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • A final word on the election – it’s now all up to you
    Brothers & Sisters, the fate of Aotearoa is now all in your hands. We here at the Daily Blog have thrown everything we can at this bloody Government and have spent every waking hour of this campaign trying to highlight...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • I can’t tell what is National Party advert and what is the NZ Herald – ...
    I can’t tell what is National Party advert and what is the NZ Herald – but then again, I never could...
    The Daily Blog | 19-09
  • TVNZ election coverage – white people telling other white people why Nati...
    TVNZ election coverage – white people telling other white people why National Party is great...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • REVIEW: Royals of Kihikihi
    What an absolutely stunning show.  I had to ask twice to check I’d heard right that this is the first staged production for Samuel Christopher, who also played a raw, real, but vulnerable, Wolf Royal, home from London for his...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • 800 Cops to detain 15 ‘terrorists’ – why Australia’s hysterical Isl...
    I’m sorry but I can’t take this current Australian terror threat seriously. 800 cops to detain 15 people and arrest one of them? A week after Abbot decides to send in Australian forces to the cluster fuck of Iraq, suddenly...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Unbelievable corruption inside Government to attack Kim Dotcom
    The corruption inside this Government just more and more filthy – we now have an ex-Customs Lawyer quitting  after being told to bury information that could embarrass the Government, specifically to do with Kim Dotcom… Curtis Gregorash said he was told...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Everyone Loves A Win-Win That Keeps G...
      Permit me to quote some figures at you… -68% of New Zealanders think political news on television focuses too much on politicians’ personalities and not enough on real issues. This is the key result of a recent UMR survey commissioned by...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, another week of ...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, another week of being the most in demand broadcaster in the country...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • EXCLUSIVE: Te Tai Tokerau independent poll (44% Hone-27% Kelvin) vs Maori T...
    The Te Tai Tokerau Maori TV poll on Monday this week painted a bleak picture for Internet MANA supporters, and it’s results have been seized upon by Labour, NZ First and even the Maori Party (who seem set once again...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The time for TPPA weasel words is over
    Almost every day of the election campaign there has been a policy announcement that would potentially run foul of what I understand is currently in the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA):  more constraints on foreign investment or investors … regulation of...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • MELTDOWN – Maori Party turns on their own Te Tai Tokerau candidate – ag...
    The tensions are building in Te Tai Tokerau with the Maori Party on the verge of meltdown. Days out from the election, the Maori Party Executive has tried to heavy their own Te Tai Tokerau Electoral Committee and their own candidate, Te Hira Paenga,...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • We Can Change this Government
    We Can Change this Government – Mike Treen at the First Union stop work election meeting...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Election 2014: For and Against
    With the general election tomorrow, we have had a very noisy campaign but little sign that the electorate wishes for a fundamental change of governmental direction. This reflects in part the fact that the economic cycle is close to its decadal...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Eye To Eye Uploaded: Martyn ‘Bomber’ Bradbury
    This interview was filmed a couple of weeks ago between Willie Jackson and myself, I was a tad off with my prediction of NZ First....
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The Donghua Liu Affair – The Players Revealed
      . . – Special investigation by Frank Macskasy & ‘Hercules‘ Speculation that the Beehive office of Immigration Minister, Michael Woodhouse, was behind the release of a letter linking Labour leader, David Cunliffe, with controversial Chinese businessman, Donghua Liu, is...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • As if you needed another reason to boycott Telecom/Spark – they sold NZ d...
    It should read ‘never stop spying’. As if you needed another reason to boycott Telecom/Spark – they sold us down the river to the US by allowing the Southern Cross cable to be tapped… The ability for US intelligence agencies...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • The NZ First-Labour Party attack strategy against Internet MANA better work
    The final days of the campaign are ticking down and Labour and NZ First are manoeuvring to kill off the Internet MANA Party by both backing Kelvin Davis for Te Tai Tokerau. It’s a risky gambit that they better pray to Christ...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Bill English’s latest insult to beneficiaries – apparently they are lik...
    National’s hatred towards the poor continues unabated as National desperately try to throw raw meat to their reactionary voter base in the hope to inspire enough hate and loathing to win back their redneck voters from the Conservative Party and from...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Eminem ain’t happy with John Key
    Eminem ain’t happy with John Key...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Key claims he did not inhale
    Key claims he did not inhale...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Final prediction on election result 2014
    What an election campaign. The character assassination of David Cunliffe kicked things off with the Herald on Sunday falsely claiming $100 00 bottles of wine, $15 000 books and $150 000 in donations  from a donor that turned out to be...
    The Daily Blog | 18-09
  • Live blog: Bainamarama takes commanding lead in Fiji elections
      Interview with Repúblika editor Ricardo Morris and Pacific Scoop’s Mads Anneberg. PACIFIC SCOOP TEAM By Ricardo Morris, Mads Anneberg, Alistar Kata and Biutoka Kacimaiwai in Suva WHILE the results are provisional at this stage, it is clear today that...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • 5AA Australia: NZ Elections Two Days To Go! + Edward Snowden + Julian Assan...
    Recorded live on 18/09/14 – Captured Live on Ustream at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/multimedia-investments-ltd 5AA Australia’s Peter Godfrey and Selwyn Manning deliver their weekly bulletin: Across The Ditch. This week, they discuss the latest news as New Zealanders go to the polls on...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What has Colin Craig done for his Press Secretary to quit 2 days before ele...
    This is VERY strange.  Colin Craig’s Press Secretary Rachel McGregor, has quit 2 days before the election, allegedly telling ZB that Colin Craig was a “very manipulative man”. I’ve met Rachel many times in the past as Colin’s Press Secretary, she is...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” – A brief w...
    “If you want steak, go to the supermarket and buy steak,” said Key in the final leaders debate. Problem of course is that the 250 000 – 285 000 children living in poverty can not afford steak, milk, butter, eggs...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • National’s final bash of beneficiaries before the election
    On cue, whenever National feel threatened, they roll out a little bennie bash just to keep their redneck voter base happy. Nothing like a bit of raw meat policy to keep National voters focused on the evil threat solo parents...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • With All Of This In Mind, I Vote
    This is my last blog before the election and I really just want to speak from the heart. Right now in this country it seems to me that a lot of people consider the “essentials” in life to be simply...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Left has to vote strategically this election
    The dedication, loyalty, and tribalism of party politics means that sometimes the left lets itself down by not voting strategically. We all want our favoured party to get maximum votes, naturally, but the winner-takes-all approach doesn’t always suit multi-party left...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Dear NZ – as you enter the polling booth, stand up for your rights
    The last days before a NZ general election are a busy time as politicians make their pitch and party activists prepare to get out the vote. It is sort of weird watching from the distance of Europe the strangest election...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • What is Waihopai, John, if it isn’t a facility for “mass surveillance...
    John Key assured us on RNZ’s Nine to Noon programme yesterday that “In terms of the Fives Eyes data bases… yes New Zealand will contribute some information but not mass wholesale surveillance.” How does this square with the operation of the...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Mass Surveillance and the Banality of E...
    Renowned journalist and intellectual Hannah Arendt coined the phrase “the banality of evil” to describe the normalisation of genocide in Nazi Germany. I thought of her phrase when I was listening to Glenn Greenwald and other international whistle-blowers talking about...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Election. Down. To. The. Wire
    Funny how last week it was John Key winning by 50%, now it’s neck and neck. I have always believed this election would be down to the wire and it is proving so. The flawed landline opinion polls the mainstream...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • 3rd Degree uses Whaleoil for story ideas as if Dirty Politics never happene...
    TV3s 3rd Degrees smear job on Kim Dotcom last night doesn’t bear much repeating. It was pretty pathetic journalism from a team who have brought us some great journalism in the past. It is sad to see 3rd Degree stooping...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Live blog: Bainimarama takes early lead in Fiji’s election
    Pacific Scoop’s Alistar Kata reports from yesterday’s voting. By Alistar Kata of Pacific Scoop in Suva Prime Minister Voreqe Bainimarama took an early lead in provisional results in the Fiji general election last night. With provisional results from 170 out...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Has The NSA Constructed The Perfect PPP?
    Former intelligence analyst and whistleblower, Edward Snowden – speaking live to those gathered at the Auckland Town Hall on Monday September 17, 2014. Investigation by Selwyn Manning. THE PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY’s admission on Wednesday that whistleblower Edward Snowden “may...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • No way – Key admits Snowden is right
    After claiming there was no middle ground. After claiming there was no mass surveillance. After calling Glenn Greenwald a henchman and a loser. After all the mainstream media pundits screamed at Kim’s decision to take his evidence to Parliamentary Privileges...
    The Daily Blog | 17-09
  • Bad luck National
    ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-09
  • Opportunity to progress water infrastructure
    “National’s re-election is an opportunity to develop the infrastructure New Zealand needs to provide surety of water for agriculture, town drinking water supply, waterways, recreational use and to future proof the country from climate change,” says Andrew...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Wellington City joins the global call for 100% clean
    At 1:00 pm, residents and visitors of Wellington gathered at the summit of Mt Victoria to join the millions strong call for a 100% clean future....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Hikoi with us from Cape Reinga to Auckland Oil Conference!
    Monday 22 September 2014: Maori from different tribal areas along the western length of Northland are organising a hikoi starting on Saturday to a Government oil conference in Auckland to make sure that Norwegian oil giant Statoil gets the message:...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Roy Morgan NZ Election Update With A Look At The Polls
    Roy Morgan NZ Election Update With A Look At The Polls National re-elected to third term with record high vote as Labour slumps to worst result in over 90 years...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • National-led Government wins mandate for RMA reforms
    An unprecedented increase in support for the third-term National Party, the best electoral performance since 1899, has delivered a clear mandate for reform of the Resource Management Act says Federated Farmers. “Vital reforms to the RMA have...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • New Zealand says no to Culture of Death
    Right to Life is pleased that the people of New Zealand have rejected a culture of death by refusing to elect a Labour/Green government that supported the decriminalisation of abortion....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – Steven Joyce
    CORIN Steven Joyce if we could start with how things are going to look now with your support partners. Can you just run us through, National can technically govern alone on what you’ve got at the moment, do you think...
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – Kelvin Davis
    SUSAN Well earlier this morning, just before we came to air in fact, Corin spoke to Kelvin Davis, one of the big winners of the night, the new MP for Te Tai Tokerau....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Q + A – David Cunliffe
    CORIN Joining me now is Labour Leader, David Cunliffe. Good morning to you Mr Cunliffe. This is a tough result for Labour, how much personal responsibility do you take for this....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Grey Power congratulates Key
    Grey Power National President Terry King congratulated John Key for his party’s “resounding win “ in yesterday’s election and hoped that the new National Government would look hard at issues affecting the ever–growing number of older New Zealanders....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • EMA congratulates PM John Key and National
    The Employers and Manufacturers Association extend hearty congratulations to the re-election of Prime Minister John Key and National....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • Helen Clark Receives Inaugural Women’s Health Rights Award
    Helen Clark was honoured as the first recipient of the Women’s Health Rights Award at the 121st Woman’s Suffrage event held in Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 21-09
  • National deal with New Zealand First unlikely
    The National party is unlikely to offer a confidence and supply agreement to New Zealand First according to Dr Ryan Malone, Director Training and Research at Civicsquare....
    Scoop politics | 20-09
  • Daily Election Update #12: NZ First to hold balance of power
    Winston Peters’ NZ First Party will hold the balance of power after tomorrow’s election, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict. Mr Peters is then expected to back a National-led...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Election Day is Time to Refocus on Policies
    Over the course of this election campaign there has been a lot of focus on dirty politics and spying, and not a lot on policy. With election day looming, Gareth Morgan is calling for people to refocus on the issues....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • The Kiwi FM Alternative Election Commentary
    Saturday 20 September from 7pm on 102.2 Auckland, 102.1 Wellington, 102.5 Canterbury, or KiwiFM.co.nz...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Beneficiary Bashing unacceptable
    Kay Brereton of the Beneficiary Advocacy Federation of New Zealand says “ the comment made by Bill English yesterday comparing beneficiaries to crack addicts is shocking and incredibly poorly timed.”...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • UN Experience Beneficial
    Acclaim Otago representatives have just completed their participation at the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability examination of the New Zealand government in Geneva, Switzerland. "It was an interesting two days which we believe has...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Changing face of NZ should be reflected in newsrooms
    With Fairfax Media’s Journalism Intern search closing on Sunday, Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy is urging aspiring journalists from Maori, Pacific and ethnic communities to apply. The deadline was recently extended to 10pm, Sunday...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • SPCA expresses concern over toxin in waterways
    Ric Odom CEO of Royal NZ SPCA has expressed concern over the toxic poison 1080 entering waterways, but DoC, Council’s and Ministry of Health have colluded to make it legal....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • NZ 2014 Election Index – 13-18 September
    Below is iSentia’s final weekly Election Index, covering the period 13-18 September and showing the relative amount of coverage of nine Party Leaders in the lead up to the National Election across news media and social media. The methodology used...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Epsom Candidate (Adam Holland) More Liberal Than ACT
    For the past four years I, like 500,000 other New Zealanders, have been illegally smoking cannabis for medicinal purposes and/or even just for the occasional laugh with friends on the weekend. We don't hurt anybody, we don't cause nuisance, we...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Left Coalition Will Save Dolphins
    A left coalition would safeguard both Māui and Hector’s dolphins, as well as revive our inshore ecosystems. Labour, Internet Mana and the Green Party all have strong policies in place for dolphin protection. The Maori Party, and to a certain...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Waihoroi Shortland: Ngāti Hine is not standing alone
    The Chairman of Te Rūnanga a Iwi o Ngāpuhi, Sonny Tau is blowing smoke worthy of a Dotcom rally with claims that Ngati Hine is standing alone in its opposition to Tūhoronuku says the Chairman of Te Rūnanga o Ngati...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Oceania voices on environment loud and strong
    While money and energy continues to be spent on global talks about climate change, Pacific islanders are scrambling to build sea walls out of sticks, stones, shells and coral, to protect their lands and homes from erosion and rising sea...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Prime Time with Sean Plunket – Tonight
    No MPs tonight --- the campaign will be over at 9 30. Instead we will look back --- and possibly forward on what we have learned and what might happen. Listener Political Columnist Jane Clifton Editor in Chief, NZ Herald,...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Election fails to address youth financial wellbeing
    Young people don’t feel included in New Zealand’s financial success and believe inequality is a problem, according to a new survey conducted by Westpac’s Fin-Ed Centre at Massey University....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Winston’s Waffle doesn’t hide the facts
    The Conservative Party is celebrating the ASA's finding announced today that rejected all but one of the complaints raised against its controversial “Conservatives or Peters” pamphlet. “Despite pages of complaints from Peters legal team the only...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • NZ Independent Coalition looking forward to tomorrow
    “Our team is looking forward to tomorrow. It is a real opportunity to reclaim politics for the people,” said NZ Independent Coalition leader Brendan Horan....
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Insights Issue 35/2014 – 19 September 2014
    Insights Issue 35/2014 - 19 September 2014 In This Issue • RMA reform the golden unicorn of policy | Jenesa Jeram...
    Scoop politics | 19-09
  • Special voting arrangements made for NIWA crew
    One of the most unusual polling stations for this year’s general election is in the middle of the ocean miles from land. NIWA’s flagship research vessel Tangaroa, has been doubling as a polling booth for crew and scientists at sea....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Tourism operators urged to vote strategically
    Tourism operators should make sure they know their local candidates’ view on tourism and use their vote to support the country’s second largest export industry, says Chris Roberts, Chief Executive, Tourism Industry Association New Zealand (TIA)....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • WGTN: March for free education
    We are students, university staff, and members of the community. Whichever parties form a government after September 20th, we are demanding an end to corporatisation of education....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Evidence of Corruption a National Scandal
    Internet Party leader Laila Harré will take evidence of corruption to international forums if there is not a full Royal Commission to investigate the growing evidence of the systematic use and abuse of democratic institutions and processes for political...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Govt continues to throw money at charter school experiment
    Official documents reveal the three primary sector charter schools approved last week will cost $2 million to set up as well as divert another $1.5 million of potential taxpayer investment from local state schools next year....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • ACT Final Election Rally
    Elections campaigns are an opportunity for political parties to put candidates and policy to enable voters to choose what sort of New Zealand we want. In this campaign there have been three tests by which you can assess the electoral...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Taxpayers on Hook Again for Solid Energy
    Responding to the Fairfax article that taxpayers are extending another $103 million to keep Solid Energy afloat, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Invermay Petition Tops 10,000 Signatures
    People across New Zealand continue to express their disgust at the downgrading of Invermay, says Dunedin North MP David Clark, as the Save Invermay petition he instigated earlier this year topped the 10,000 signature mark just days before the 2014...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • McVicar vows to continue fight for police
    Garth McVicar stated at a public meeting last week that he would fight to retain a 24/7 Police Station in Napier and no reduction in the number of police staff for the Hawkes Bay region, some said he was simply...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Party Vote Our Weapon in Fight Against Government Corruption
    Internet MANA urges New Zealanders to use their party vote to confront corruption in any new government....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Election day is tomorrow – make sure you’re a part of it!
    Tomorrow, Saturday 20 September, is election day, and New Zealanders’ last chance to have a say on who leads the country for the next three years....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Is the Shape of our Government out of the hands of Voters?
    In the last stuff.co.nz / Ipsos Political Poll before Saturdays election, National is down 5.1% to 47.7% and Labour up 3.7% to 26.15%. These results are remarkably similar to the 2011 election where National received 47.3% of the vote and...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Spirit of Suffrage a Call to Action for All Kiwi Women
    Internet MANA is drawing on the courage and integrity of New Zealand women on Suffrage Day – Friday, September, 19 – to encourage them to pay tribute to the spirit of their foremothers who gained women the vote....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Live Election Night Coverage on TV And Online
    Māori Television’s KOWHIRI 2014 – ELECTION SPECIAL kicks off at 7.00pm this Saturday with a five-hour broadcast focusing on the Māori electorates....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Judge’s Decision Disappoints Fish & Game
    Today’s decision to give a Temuka man 100 hours of community service for selling sports fish to the public has disappointed Fish & Game, which believes the sentence handed down was “too lenient and will not go far enough to...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Cutting-Edge Graphics Fire up TV3’s Election Night Coverage
    TV3’s Election Night coverage, hosted by John Campbell, will be enhanced by cutting-edge graphics that will showcase the night’s results....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Govt rushes to open charter schools in New Year
    The government’s decision to approve four new charter schools last week to open in January next year goes against the Minister of Education’s own advice that the schools ought to have at least a year’s preparation time....
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • 7 Days And Jono And Ben at Ten Hijack Election Weekend
    The 7 Days and Jono and Ben at Ten (JABAT) comedians are running their own version of election coverage, with a schedule of entertainment and comedy across TV3, Kiwi FM, the web and social media this Friday and Saturday under...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • Fewer Prisoners Equals Less Crime
    In its latest blog, ‘Abolishing Parole and other Crazy Stuff’,’ at http://blog.rethinking.org.nz/2014/09/krill-and-womble-independent-policy.html , Rethinking Crime and Punishment urges government to rethink its approach to releasing prisoners. “The public expectation is that the excellent reductions in the crime...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
  • McVicar slams his political opponents
    I want a safe and prosperous society and that can only be achieved if we have strong and vi-brant families – McVicar...
    Scoop politics | 18-09
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