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The Standard

Open mike 10/12/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 10th, 2012 - 46 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

46 comments on “Open mike 10/12/2012”

  1. Morrissey 1

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/08/psy-lyrics-anti-us-anger

    Which of these two stories is causing more controversy and outrage in the US?
    by GLENN GREENWALD

    New York Daily News, Friday:

    “Fiercely anti-American lyrics from Korean rapper Psy have been unearthed just two weeks before the star is scheduled to perform for President Obama. The ‘Gangnam Style’ singer calls for US soldiers to be killed in one song, prompting a short-lived petition to ax Psy from the bill at the Christmas in Washington celebration.

    “In 2004, Psy rapped on a South Korean metal band’s song, ‘Dear American’, at a protest concert, The Washington Post reported. ‘Kill those f—ing Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives’, he said. ‘Kill those f—ing Yankees who ordered them to torture. Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers. Kill them all slowly and painfully.’

    “Two years earlier, after a pair of Korean schoolgirls were mowed down by a U.S.-operated armored vehicle, Psy again expressed vitriol toward America. Onstage, he smashed a plastic model of a U.S. tank into pieces as the crowd cheered, The Korea Herald reported.

    “Psy apologized in a statement to the Daily News, adding that the song in question is from nearly a decade ago, and was ‘part of a deeply emotional reaction to the war in Iraq and the killing of two Korean schoolgirls.'”
    …..

    The Guardian, Friday:

    “The US military is facing fresh questions over its targeting policy in Afghanistan after a senior army officer suggested that troops were on the lookout for ‘children with potential hostile intent’. In comments which legal experts and campaigners described as ‘deeply troubling’, army Lt Col Marion Carrington told the Marine Corp Times that children, as well as ‘military-age males’, had been identified as a potential threat because….”

    Read more….
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/08/psy-lyrics-anti-us-anger

    • muzza 1.1

      Hi Morrissey,

      Have you ever thought that much “news” is made up simply to get a reaction?

      The more I look into it, the more fake it all becomes. Some of the events reported in the “news”, are likely to not even be happening.

      • Dr Terry 1.1.1

        muzza. I take in then that you are speaking of any and every type of news reporting? You can hardly be selective about this.

        • muzza 1.1.1.1

          Dr T, yeah its a tough one as the news media is so strictly controlled globally these days by so few players, and while the internet makes it possible for more points of view to see the light of day, its also easier to use to muddy issues, and flat out deceive. So many people are quick to play the conspiracy card, yet how to they know that any of the sources being read from/researched are pucker.

          Short of being on-site and or seeing something first hand it really is now becoming hard to take any news items seriously, thats the environment which has purposefully been created, the lies now run too wide/deep, and ingrained into the minds and beliefs of the masses.

          With the media industry including the entertainment industry, music tv, movies, sports etc, and a history of manufacturing *news* events to broadcast as *news*, for me the question has to be asked!
          The news/entertainment industry also have a long history with the military, so again the question has to be asked.

          The more that people become part of the lies, and the further the lies propagate, the distance between ever being able to understand truth becomes harder to bridge.

      • Morrissey 1.1.2

        A very good point, my friend.

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    The US has always had a misplaced sense of patriotism.

    And an overinflated sense of place in the world, a bit like ancient times when humans thought the planets revolved around the earth.

    • joe90 2.1

      The US has always had a misplaced sense of patriotism.

      I think that’s the result when they combine their belief in their own manifest destiny with their delusion about American exceptionalism. Fuck, some have the belief that there really are references to America in the bible.

      • Dr Terry 2.1.1

        AWW. Many terrible things can be found in the Bible!!

      • Populuxe1 2.1.2

        Given that they’re currently the only superpower worth speaking of, I’d hardly say their exceptionalism was entirely delusional.

        • Reagan Cline 2.1.2.1

          I asked the taxi driver in San Francisco why everyone was so polite and distant and he said “you could be sued”.

          I said to the workman under the Golden Gate Bridge “everything here is so big !”

          He said “It’s big alright”.

          There was a farmers market by the docks – people must have driven in with home grown produce from the countryside around San Fransisco. They looked prosperous.

          There were street people everywhere !! SPOILERS !!!!

  3. viperfreedom 3

    According to US Policy announced well over a year ago (paraphrased):

    If you are in an environment where the US wants your resources you are fubar. If you are male, if you are tall enough to see over a kitchen table and you are not American then you are a Military Combatant, thus a target. Those unfortunates who may be near you, such as the Mother and siblings sitting at the table with you when the Drone strike occurs, are still seen as collaborators or more commonly as complicit targets but are usually just written off as old fashioned collateral damage and as such are not counted as people.

    At least the recent progression towards full fledged fascism in the US means that now their own citizens are also seen as viable targets to be assassinated bombed destroyed irradicated and generally dealt to. Especially if the target has the quaint idea the US has not the right nor the integrity to play Policeman to the World.

    • rosy viper 4.1

      I was reading an article on why austerity won’t cure the UK government’s deficit…

      Economics 101’s first principle is that if households, companies and banks are simultaneously saving and building up surpluses, as they are at present, then someone in the system has to have a deficit to compensate, otherwise there is a downward depressive economic vortex. That someone necessarily is the government. Its deficit is the counterpart of surpluses elsewhere.

      This was in the context of what creates a good society and George Osborne dividing society into strivers and shirkers (i.e. beneficiaries and people in low pay, low status jobs) in justifying further cuts to benefits for the low paid and unemployed.

      Coming to a NZ town near you, I suspect. What will Labour do? wring it’s collective hands but go with it. Or do what Ed Miliband seems intent on doing -going into bat for people losing their livelihoods. This despite the ‘New Labour’ leftovers believing they will be seen as siding with ‘scroungers’

      In a high-risk move that could come to define his leadership, Miliband appears ready to order his party to oppose real-term reductions in income for millions of the poorest and most vulnerable, announced in Wednesday’s autumn statement, when proposals are placed before parliament next month…

      Senior Labour figures stopped short of confirming that Labour would vote against the cuts in the Commons in January. But it is understood that unless fundamental changes are made to the coming welfare uprating bill, Miliband will be prepared to give the order…

  4. Just viping 5

    Damn, so many interesting things on the net today. I’ve already made myself late.
    Just wanted to mention two items that I don’t have time to link to:

    Dave Armstrong in today’s Dom-Post has a column on the lethal effects of cost-cutting public services;
    And Bryce Edwards has a blog at “Liberation” about ‘Viper-Gate’ – (I know I’m in a hurry….)

    • Rosie 5.1

      Also running late due to the amount of interesting things to read this morning and no time to comment except to say Happy Birthday and Big Ups to the Standard. Keep up the great work everybody and don’t give into bullies of the MP kind. Kia Kaha.

      Heres the Dave Armstrong article from the dompost

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/dave-armstrong/8057640/The-tragedy-of-state-penny-pinching

      He always writes a good article and then gets rubbished by the tards that frequent the comment sections of fairfax

      • muzza 5.2.1

        Some pragmatic discussion from Edwards, and again also via the link to Imperator Fish.

      • ianmac 5.2.2

        Bryce:“Much of the allegations are opaque and without any solid verification. They appear to involve an attempt to censor members’ participation in blogs such as The Standard,….”

        Hope commentators on the Standard are not into mob rule? We keep reading the word “verification” but in this case should we skip all that and use the allegations to vilify/denigrate Labour leadership?

        • muzza 5.2.2.1

          The below from Imperator Fish

          We should also consider the possibility that the MP in question (assuming there is a factual basis for these allegations) is very much out on his/her own and is in the process of being told by his/her fellow MPs that he/she is really quite a special class of fool, and should just shut his/her mouth, because look at the mess he/she has made. Again!

          But this is all rumour and speculation, so some scepticism is warranted, especially since it doesn’t really make sense that the party would be trying to silence some critics while accepting a very high profile one back into the party. Why would the party do something that defied all good sense? When has that ever happened?

          Seems like a sensible position at this juncture!

      • Rosie 5.2.3

        Thanks for posting that link Bastard. Haven’t had a chance to catch up with the viper gate storm until right now. Theres too many words to describe the consternation around this and too little time but I keep coming back to to the thought: Are they trying to write the book on “How to lose friends and alinenate voters?” If they treat their membership as the enemy they create a vacuum(an even bigger one) and loose the next election. There will be no one left to do the valuable work of the party foot soldier. Everything they are doing lately just confirms that my choice of no longer party voting Labour, after 9 elections, is the right choice. Under MMP the Greens always got my electorate vote but now I’m going two ticks for them – or by then it might be a vote for Mana and a vote for Green, who knows, but I do know it won’t be Labour

      • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 5.2.4

        BTV
        Thanks for that Bryce Edwards link. I’ve not been able to understand the way that politics has changed in NZ and why it’s so hard to get backbone and keenness for the job now from the two heavies. What Edwards says seems a good explanation.

    • Just viping 5.3

      Thanks for posting the links Bastard and Rosie.
      I think Edwards’ analysis is somewhat distorted by his previous misconception, still not eradicated, that the Standard is a Labour Party blog.
      I’ve been coming here for about 3 years, and there has always been some strong criticism of the Labour Party – nothing new about it. However, it would be fair to say that frustration has set in, and more here are feeling angry at Labour than previously, and there seems to be more and more to be angry about.

      • karol 5.3.1

        agree, js.  Edwards shows he isn’t really that familiar with The Standard.  But I agree with him on the top-down electoral professionalisation of politics: for right wing and the NZ Labour party anyway – not so much for Greens and Mana.

  5. liberty 6

    So what day does Labours anti blog faction close you chaps down?
    It will be a bit sad the Standard going.
    I would disagree with 99.9% of your propaganda
    Democracy allows for different views even if you are wrong.

    • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 6.1

      Exactly even with the obvious and unashamed left bias as long as your agreement is justified etc it would seem everyone gets a fair hearing on here.
      Even I get my four cent rankings allowed.

  6. We may be getting getting there Mr Roy, but I don’t like the destination nor the mode of transport. http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/eric-roy-and-his-hand-basket.html

  7. So any thoughts, that Labour mp’s are censoring this blog.

    [lprent: No-one including Labour MP’s or even the yet to be passed “cyber-bully” bill (which goes far beyond it’s mandate) has a shit show in hell of censoring this blog.

    It is always possible to out a pseudonym that is used on another blog. This approach was pioneered here by Whaleoil before everyone wised up and stopped leaving comments on his site under their favourite handle. People really need to just avoid sites that don’t have solid privacy statements. That is the issue in this case.

    Ummm there is a post in that. Nope – I already wrote that a year ago.

    Clearly it isn’t going to be hard for CV and others to reappear under a different handle whenever he feels like it. It is just a pain losing a handle that you’re spent so much effort in building.

    Shortly I’ll have the code in place to ensure that makes it impossible penetrate the anonymity of comments left on our data system, while still allowing moderators to moderate. This needed to be put into place anyway because of the implications of ipV6.

    Shortly afterwards the data for this site will depart to locations outside of the NZ jurisdiction and will be pretty hard to find. It won’t interfere with the functionality of this site, you’re already talking to many servers worldwide.

    And the sad reality is that we receive no data or speed benefit from being in NZ because of the ridiculous costs of overseas traffic. Currently ALL traffic to and from The Standard goes over overseas pipes. This is despite 70% of it being from NZ addresses and >95% of all humans being from NZ addresses. The rest of the traffic, mostly overseas bots of various types costs us $2/GB over 25 GB and typically unless rationed costs more than the rest of our server costs.

    In short I’m not too happy with the way that NZ is heading towards becoming a net unfriendly state. The kind of stupidity by a Labour MP is just on par with the idiotic attempt back in the 90’s by National MP to install net-nanny on every PC in NZ. I guess we don’t elect MP’s for their intelligence… ]

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      They can’t censor this blog nor close it down as it’s not theirs.

      • Neoleftie friend in arms of CV 8.1.1

        I would hate to see one of the last few bastions of free and open speech close shop or red alertafied.

      • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 8.1.2

        I consider threatening regular posters so that they withdraw from the site and the NZ politics online community pretty effective censorship, don’t you?

      • Rhinoviper 8.1.3

        Tell that to Curran (actually, I think we are, all of us).

    • Morrissey 8.2

      So any thoughts, that Labour mp’s are censoring this blog.

      Yet another addle-pated, ignorant comment. Why are you still here?

      • liberty 8.2.1

        “Why are you still here?”
        Watching the melt down. Hasn’t been so much fun since the Berlin wall fell. :)

        • felixviper 8.2.1.1

          lolz that comment wasn’t to you, libby. Guess you’re here ‘coz you’re lonely then.

          • liberty 8.2.1.1.1

            You are right. But when you get the likes of Morrissey Questioning a poster
            About him posting. Apart from being elitist (typical Morrissey) it
            has the smell of censorship. Maybe he is part of the Curran Faction.
            As I have said in another post. I disagree with 99.9% of what is posted on here.
            It’s a socialist cesspit of the first degree. The worry is if the anti Bloging faction.
            Can’t tolerate a little insurrection within its own blogs.
            What would happen if labour does the imposable and wins the next election.
            What happen to the free blogs such as Whale, Not PC, No Minister and Kiwi blog.

            • felixviper 8.2.1.1.1.1

              Are you retarded? Labour has no say over this blog whatsoever, and Morrissey isn’t an author or moderator.

              What the hell are you on about?

              • liberty

                I didn’t say Labour. I said Curran faction. There is a big difference.
                I didn’t claim Morrissey was author or moderator. He is just a lefty minion.
                But he was being dictatorial on a poster.
                Which has the smell of censorship.

        • Professor Longhair 8.2.1.2

          I think our friend Morrissey was actually addressing that blithering ignoramus Brett Dale.

  8. freedom 9

    “Radio stations ring me up, say they’re different people, and I don’t know I’m on air sometimes. It happens.” http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/8057945/2Day-threats-mount-as-prank-anger-rises

    gee, i must have been busy the week a DJ pranked the Prime Minister of NZ, anyone got the link?
    or is this just one more example of the PM talking bs to the media, who absent of independant thought, simply print without question whatever comes out of the PM’s orifice

    also probably best to ignore the PM saying that he sometimes does not know when he is live on air:
    – no more face left to palm

    • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 9.1

      Key and the nurse were very different in that she was mortified at having not been 100% on top of her job and duties while he thinks he can smile and mumble his way out of any mistake. ‘I’m just an easy screw-up guy no worries – just like the rest of you.’ The voters have eaten it up until now. The nurse wins the integrity stakes, but the punishment she administered was disproportionate.

  9. raqonteur 10

    ‘Know your country’
    What do you reckon about new info site Wiki New Zealand: http://wikinewzealand.org/
    I’m a fan!

  10. Anne 11

    This is a bit naughty but I can’t resist.

    Grant Robertson on Red Alert “Sunday Sports: Omnishambles”

    Excerpt:

    …The way NZ Cricket has handled this situation, and others over recent years shows an administration that is deeply flawed, and is bringing the game they are charged with looking after into disrepute. Everyone involved has been treated badly, and some will struggle to make the positive impact on the game that they should.

    Comment1:

    Good parable.
    Let’s hope Lab – sorry, the Black Caps – can sort things out.

  11. Murray Olsen 12

    Hangi rocks can get to 1100 C. Imagine if the Maori had used JP4. They could probably have turned structural steel to plastic.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/8059237/Hangi-feast-of-magnetic-field-data

  12. muzza 13

    And as if to show ridiculous nature of the MSM, this comment from yesterday with a link to an article about workers ratings, productivity and so on….

    Do you spend your work days aimlessly drifting between the water cooler, bathroom, Facebook and job websites?

    If so, you’re one of New Zealand’s “lost souls”, the people identified in a workplace productivity survey as our biggest time-wasters – losing 21 per cent of the day.

    Followed up today with this little beauty

    Awww, ain’t that cute. And good for your KPIs, it seems.

    Spending office hours staring at cute and cuddly animals could actually help boost your work performance. Try telling that to your boss next time she catches you peering at a puggle.

    But researchers at Hiroshima University recently found university students who viewed images of baby animals, such as puppies and kittens, performed set tasks with greater time and care.

    Apparently, staring at ”less cute” adult animals or ”pleasant foods” (such as steak or sushi) was not nearly so productive

    The MSM – Just printing shit for a very long time!

    • karol 13.1

      Does any of the research show whether wasting readers time with useless bits of research helps get journos more or less focused on the really important news?

  13. xtasy 14

    Day 345 in another annus horribilus in the DICTATORSHIP of NZ Aotearoa has just commenced.

    For those in Auckland, who may have a bit of spare time on their hands on Friday morning, 14 Dec. 2012:

    Social Welfare Minister Paula Bennett is holding a speech to community members at the Mt Albert Baptist Church, at 732 New North Road, Mt Albert, Auckland (not far from the intersection with St Lukes Rd) – at about 10 am on 14 December!

    AAAP and others are planning to attend, as far as I learned, to “receive” her from 09:50 am, and let her know, what they think of the new welfare reforms she and NatACT are planning to hammer through Parliament over the coming months.

    So if you want to be counted, perhaps drop by and join others, to be vocal with your opinion.

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    GreensBy David Clendon MP
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