Historical materialism is a way of understanding how societies grow and change, and has been very influential amongst social scientists for a century and a half. Although the theory was invented by Karl Marx, it is nowadays used in modified forms by many non-Marxist anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, and sociologists studying Pacific societies, and has been the theme of famous books like Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel. But can historical materialism really make sense of the Pacific’s past and present, or do societies like Papua New Guinea and Tonga show the limitations of the theory? http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/can-historical-materialism-explain.html
As I understand it…if I look at where I am today, then I can look at yesterday and the day before to explain how I find myself where I am today. And it will appear inevitable – or deterministic – that I am exactly where I am today.
I could them extrapolate from that and predict where I’ll be tomorrow.
And it’s all nonsense that denies the existence of free will, while dangerously elevating notions of inevitability.
Put another way using a far more simple set of circumstances. If I drop a tumbler, I don’t know for certain whether it will break or not. If after I’ve dropped it and it’s smashed into pieces, I then analyse and ‘backtrack’ all the various broken pieces through time and space, I may can claim it was inevitable – given that I’ve somehow been able to record most of the physics involved in the breaking – that all the pieces would wind up exactly where they are now.
As a claim to knowledge goes, it’s a dangerous illusion. It’s merely a description of what has happened. The truthful, and somewhat banal claim would be that, given this is the situation, then this is the situation…there would be no claim of there being a deterministic past or inevitable future attached to it.
To relate it to human history and anthropology – when we’re looking at all of those yesterdays or other cultures, we’re inevitably looking through the very specific lens of today that we possess. That distorts and shapes our understandings or perceptions.
If you like your PoMoGeo, try David Harvey. He has gone through multiple emplaced examples of structural change. Also Mike Davis – his weird stuff on climate change and its determinisms already past is particularly fresh.
But if you want a real head-stretch, try Amy Allen’s new book that came out a couple of months ago called The End of Progress. She still has those big theoretical engines from Habermas, Honneth and Forst gearing their tractor engines for the haul (i.e. good hard Frankfurt School thinkers defending the idea of progress and of long waves of order and disorder), but dispenses with a progressive reading of history, while retaining the notion of progress as a political imperative. It’s getting to a core of social impulse beyond ‘can things improve’, to ‘must things improve’?
Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.
Price rises make housing unaffordable for many New Zealanders.
‘Nine of the top ten areas of growth are in Auckland – hardly surprising judging from valuation service QV data which said average Auckland house prices in March were nearly 17 per cent higher than a year ago.
With a price increase of 33.88 per cent Manurewa had the largest growth in the year leading up to June 2016, followed by Pukekohe and Papakura.’
A Friday news dump that shouldn’t be forgotten about by the start of next week:
A contorversial public private partnership (PPP) will be considered for the Dunedin Hospital redevelopment, documents show… When contacted, the ministry said consideration of a PPP was standard practice in hospital redevelopments.
PPPs are opposed by the senior doctors’ union, the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, partly because of how they have performed in the United Kingdom.
ASMS executive director Ian Powell said PPPs had a “track record of failure”…
Mr Powell said it appeared consultants were doing rather well out of the redevelopment.
A consulting firm has been busy at the board for several months writing a “strategic assessment” and a “strategic service plan”.
Former health board member and ASMS spokesman John Chambers said PPPs appeared attractive but made no financial sense…
A person familiar with the process of developing business cases for large projects said the lack of public visibility around the project was unusual…
There were unanswered questions about what would be provided in Dunedin, the role of Southland Hospital, of rural hospitals, and whether more services would be provided in Christchurch.
“Clearly, there’s a plan. Why don’t they tell us what the plan is?”
I’ve quoted quite enough of the article as it is, but do read the original. The Blair quote in the final paragraph of Goodwin’s piece is a truly impenetrable piece of bureaucratic obfuscation. I just re-watched Brazil the other night and the similarity with the Ministry of Information is uncanny.
[You posted the same comment yesterday, Adrian and got a few thoughtful responses. However, cut, paste and repeat is not a formula that is welcome here. Original comments are the go at TS, so either develop the argument or move on. TRP]
Yes that is pretty much what Mike Williams ends up doing most weeks.
In fact the other week K Ryan pretty much ended up debating Hooton and Williams, it was painful to listen to.
RNZ have to get rid of him ASAP, people should email Nine to Noon on RNZ and tell them Williams doesn’t cut it.
Yes well I thought that it is such an important issue to have a decent voice on the Left on Monday mornings RNZ show, and not Mike Williams insipid lackluster position, that you might well allow it to have another go.
As ‘The voice from the Right and the Left’ on RNZ is the only main stream media airing of this type of discourse left, I thought it vital we have someone who actually holds our views, and not Williams who actually endorses English’s social/health spending principles, endorses Serco etc.
Maybe you could run an actual story on this topic, and really get the conversation going?
There’d be no problem if RNZ called it “From the far right and from the extreme far right”. Hang on, that mightn’t work, either, because Williams would still “agree with Matthew”. Fuck, this is a tough one.
The only good thing about having Williams on, is that he is so useless, that he lets Hooton have plenty of time for some real raves, and generally the more Hooton talks, the crazier he starts to sound.
“Britain’s cutting edge, £1 billion warships are breaking down in the Persian Gulf because their engines malfunction in the heat.
Contractors claim the Ministry of Defence did not tell them the 8,000-tonne, Type 45 Destroyer would spend significant amounts of time in warm water, the Daily Mail reported.
The engines of the six vessels have stalled in the middle of the ocean, leaving crews plunged into darkness for hours at a time.”
Pretty big fuck up on both counts. This is why I don’t believe tech is coming to save us. It’s not just tech and how it works theoretically, it’s tech and how it operates in the real world including human systems like defense contracts.
There’s little to no point in arguing with you about it as you’ll hold on to your wrong beliefs rather take on the fact that this isn’t a case of tech failing but of purposeful under-engineering.
Dude, go reread my comment. I already know that it wasn’t a tech fail, that it was a human fail. That was my point.
Which just reinforces that you have no idea what my beliefs are, you haven’t been paying attention, and instead have been projecting your own shit onto my comments like you did just now.
Just taking the first link only (because if you can’t be bothered specifying what you actually mean why should I bother opening the others?).
Incog was asking why medical authorities shouldn’t be trusted (in response to something CV had said). This was in the context of a thread about vaccination.
I gave the following explanation, which is a generalisation of why so many people don’t trust science and that there are valid reasons for that distrust. And that for many people who choose not to vaccinate it’s based on experience. I was describing a social phenomena. How is that me hating technology?
Trust has to be earned. While medical science has done many good things it has also done a lot of damage and isn’t in great shape at the moment in terms of trustworthiness. This is a very large part of the culture of people who choose to not vaccinate. It’s not an ignorant rebellion as some like to frame it, it’s based on real experience of people having their health and lives damaged. Until those people can be part of the conversation and have their concerns worked on there will always be the mistrust and the divide.
draco those cites are not cites for what you said they were cites for and I have followed your links. Obviously if they are your evidence then it is clear that you cannot back up your assertion that weka hates technology. Withdraw and an apology would be in order I think.
“They all come across to me as a hatred of science/technology.”
Yes, that is what I mean by projection. If you can’t demonstrate how my comments are tech-hatred then it is something going on in your own self that is making you think I hate tech.
In the spirit of Matariki and all that offers, I’d like to present the ko. Fashioned from wood and requiring no smelting, importing or energy other than muscular, the ko represents the next step in cultivation technology. The ko is available to anyone with access to a sapling. Well cared for, the ko can last a lifetime and never needs upgrading as it is perfect for the job it does. If your ko breaks from careless use, a new one can be readily made. Manufacture of the ko produces no greenhouse gases, aside from the breath of the ko maker who would be breathing any way, nor is any produced by its destruction. In fact, a redundant ko continues to act as a carbon sink, if placed under the soil. There is no “mark II” ko – the original represents the tool’s ultimate form. That’s appropriate technology for you – difficult to fault and elegant in its simplicity. Mind you, even the ko can be considered redundant when compared with the best cultivator of them all, the daikon seed. But that’s a story for the Japanese New Year.
Then approached the owner of the field, and he showed the digging-party where he wished them to work. The diggers gathered in one corner of the field, and worked diagonally across the planting area. They had a peculiar way of advancing, ko-ing as they went. The ground had previously been prepared by being cleared of all grass and weeds and other growth, and was perfectly clean and bare for the diggers. The Taiporohenui soil did not require much digging, for it was very soft and rich, easily worked.
The ko-men worked across from the corner, gradually extending their front as the field opened out; and all kept time as they worked, moving the handles of the ko to the right and left alternately, as they made the holes for the reception of the seed kumara. They kept time with a choric song while they worked; all the bare backs moved as one man to the rhythm of the ancient chant, the feathers and white aurei adornments of the ko-heads dancing in the sun.
“Ko-ing”
You don’t read that word every day.
Great for those volcanic soils, I imagine, but not so flash in the clay where gypsum is the technology of choice.
JMG has an article which touches on the points you make above and in it there are some real world examples and links.
I could go on. These programs, and many others, were sold to politicians and public with lavish claims about their ability to perform every imaginable military mission. As it turned out, they were well designed to carry out devastating raids on the US Treasury, and that’s about it.
JMG should probably try reading the entire article that he references:
The Navy has an equal embarrassment on its hands right now, the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS), another high-tech, high-priced failure. The LCS costs $37 billion a pop
What the article says:
Instead, this $440 million ship can be knocked out of a fight by a single hostile cruise missile.
Of course, even a US super-carrier can be knocked out of the fight by a single hostile cruise missile. That’s what the cruise missile’s designed to do. Our frigates, which are a similar size to the LCS, would also be knocked out of the fight by a single cruise missile strike.
The $37b is the price for all 24 ships.
And the problem isn’t the tech. It’s the profit drive and the corruption that comes with it. JMG actually makes that point but he takes awhile to get around to it and actually seems to miss it himself.
Military procurement should start in the government and end in the government.
“All the most egregious examples of military-procurement failure in recent years have had something in common: they were supposed to be revolutionary new breakthroughs using exciting new technology, and so on drearily through the most overused rhetoric of our age. The cascading failures of the F-35 can be traced straight to that sort of thinking; its designers apparently believed with all their hearts that every innovation must be an improvement, and so came up with a plane that fails in the most innovative ways you care to imagine. The LCS, the SBX, the ECCS, the pixellated camo uniforms, all fell victim to the same trap—their designers were so busy making them revolutionary that they forgot to make them work.”
I’ll highlight the really relevant sentence
“apparently believed with all their hearts that every innovation must be an improvement” – that is the cult of progress… and
“progress has become the enemy of prosperity”
and
“progress, like everything else in the real world, is subject to the law of diminishing returns”
I believe you are still a believer in the role of progress – 🙂
“its designers apparently believed with all their hearts that every innovation must be an improvement”
Two points:
1. Its designers (important words that you missed out) probably weren’t the ones making all the grandiose claims. The people selling the concept were
2. There really isn’t a whole lot of new technology in the F35. Most of it goes back to the 1950/60s. It really is just simple incremental adjustments over time.
“progress has become the enemy of prosperity”
Which is simply a load of bollocks. It’s capitalism that is the enemy of prosperity and always has been throughout recorded history. JMG doesn’t realise that and, apparently, neither do you. JMG is a dedicated capitalist so it’s not surprising that he doesn’t see the damage that capitalism does.
“progress, like everything else in the real world, is subject to the law of diminishing returns”
True, even improved living standards across all of society (my preferred measure of progress) meet such an end but look at how people react to me saying that there should be a maximum income of $100k/year per person and that I think that that may even be far too much.
But that’s not what JMG or you are addressing there. Both of you are addressing technological innovation and solely referring to that as ‘progress’.
How do you see progress without technology? seems to me too many can’t disengage those concepts.
Where is your proof that jmg is a dedicated capitalist – put up or shut up. I’d imagine you are much more entangled in that system and thus supporting it than he is.
2. There really isn’t a whole lot of new technology in the F35. Most of it goes back to the 1950/60s. It really is just simple incremental adjustments over time.
o_0
How can someone as smart as you be as stupid as you?
How much of the F-35 is repairable in a 1960’s equipped hangar? How much of the F-35 is repairable using 1960’s materials and parts?
If you put an airforce pilot from 1960 into the cockpit of the F-35, how far would he be able to fly it?
I’m amazed that they’re even trying that excuse. It’s obviously a case of purposeful under engineering to save costs rather than provide the product as requested.
A warship obviously needs to operate wherever it’s sent.
Bit premature there, Draco – the devil is in as requested. If there weren’t requirements to operate reliably in environmental extremes, then the lowest tender is the one that used lower-rated heat exchangers to cool the engines.
If there isn’t a clause that says, effectively, operate in all theatres then I will be highly surprised. To put it another way, I’d be even more surprised if the spec said operate only in waters around Gt Britain.
So, no, I don’t think that it’s premature. I’m pretty sure that the company that built them a) understood that they were making them less effective b) that they were doing so against generally understood principle and c) that they were doing so to increase profits.
Well, that’s the crux of the dispute between MoD and Rolls Royce: RR say they designed to spec (probably a temperature bracket that’s borderline Gulf/tropical).
If the specifications were average gulf temperatures, for example, they could both be correct if the engines failed on above-average days.
But that will be for negotiations and the courts to decide.
It is difficult for an English firm operating in the gelid wastelands of Cameron’s decaying imperial ruin to imagine sustained external temperatures of 45 degrees for a ship. They probably used an optimistic 25 degrees, with a healthy margin for error.
The Maori Party deserve to be binned for their choice to suck up to National and mana are all ready binned, due to their choice to suck up to KDC. The future is unwritten, as a wise man once said, but I don’t see either of those parties making it back next election. it’s certainly not the LP’s role to resuscitate them.
Yep Labour can’t afford to worry about any other team, not with their very survival at stake and so much to do within the party and the electorate. The activist left is trucking along well so Labour can stick with trying to entice key supporters over. If Labour can do a little better than their fail last time then maybe the can help the left make a difference – time will tell.
And Labour deserve to be binned for all their fuck ups over the years, including the recent ones, which leaves us with the Greens as the only useful and meaningful left wing party. So how about we get everyone to vote for them then? /sarc
Your macho politics are exactly why we have had 3 terms of NACT. MMP is about broadening representation not consolidating it in the hands of the few. It would be a real shame and probably a tragedy if too many Labourites believe that they have to deal with the Greens from pragmatics but still secretly want to be the top dog and have all the power for themselves.
Weka, sharing is where it’s at and Labour have shown they are capable of doing that in Government. 3 elections in a row, Helen Clark shared power with 3 different combinations of partners. The reality is that Labour know they have to share power under MMP. The current arrangement with the Greens is a concrete affirmation of that fact.
Sharing is not macho politics. It’s weird that you would think that it was.
The group with the most power don’t get to define what power sharing is. By definition it has to be defined by the people who are denied access to power. Otherwise it’s just the powerholders holding power.
“Sharing is not macho politics. It’s weird that you would think that it was.”
I didn’t say was. Please don’t manipulate my words to suit your own argument.
Actually, under MMP, the largest party has more power in negotiations, as you’d expect. Generally MMP coalitions reflect the votes received with the largest party getting the largest share. That’s an arrangement the Greens seem happy with.
Macho politics was your phrase, weka. It turns out you used it poorly.
Thanks for proving my point trp. You believe the person with the biggest stick rules. That’s macho politics.
Sharing power is much more than just the biggest dude deciding what they want on their terms. MMP historically in NZ has been about powermongering, including by Labour in the past. It doesn’t have to be that way.
(I didn’t use the phrase poorly, you tried to redefine what sharing is. Just be honest about it).
I don’t disagree with your comments but you and others here seem to view (political) power as some kind of finite entity that can be shared like (as in: cutting up) a cake. I know this is the most common perception.
However, I’d like to offer a different (counter?) view that also leads, almost inevitably, to a different framing.
I see power more as an almost limitless resource rather.
When (political) parties “share” power in reality they combine forces, e.g. seats, people, knowledge & skills, values & opinions, etc., a joining of qualities and strengths, from which increased power is possible. In other words, it is more an additive action than a fractional one.
An MOU is also such an action, which may or may not lead to increased power. In fact, the Opposition also has considerable political power although not as much as the Government.
I’ve cut short this comment, but not because of the AB game starting in a few minutes …
“In other words, it is more an additive action than a fractional one.”
Actually that’s much close to my own ideas and I like how you have phrased that. The fractional aspect is just the MMP MP split. But the power is exactly those things you talk about, people, knowledge/skills, diversity of values and ethics, opinions etc. and the powersharing comes from intention, willingness, self-awareness etc. I would add that relationships are the key to increasing diversity and thus making it both more stable/resilient and more productive/potent. Which is why it is such a shame that MMP has been driven by macho politics for so long, it’s obvious in the relationships that nothing meaningful has been built long term (and this is reflected in our current situation re CC).
I also agree that MoU is part of that and that it has its own value irrespective of how much or little MP power it engenders. I love that you have brought all this up, because to me this is the thing that is bringing much relief to so many with the MoU, even if we’re not naming it. It’s the fact that Labour and the Greens working together gives them another kind of power beyond the mere machinations at the level of macho politics and who has the most sticks/MPs. Which is why I hope that Labour will do the right thing by the Mp.
Suggest you read Michael basset in the nbr today TRP, you may also after this have a similar opinion of labour future to that of mana and Maori party in regard to labour failing to learn the lessons of their own history with respect to thier lurch to the left
As trip says manas gone and I can’t see them coming back.
Its up to the Maori party to win their seats ,they made their own bed , but it is an option for Labour/Green /Maori . I’d much prefer that to any government with the dinosaur nzf party.
While I understand the Maori parties policy of always trying to be in the tent, being in the tent with the nats has cost them .
I have no idea what state the party is in, but I can’t see any good reason why Harawira can’t stand in Te Tai Tokerau again.
yes, it’s up the the Mp to win their seats, but if Labour go hard after them, what chance of having the kind of cooperation between L and the Mp that engenders a stable, potent left wing govt?
I guess there is a difference in “going hard” and making sure that Maori have the option of coming back to labour . I would say standing Tamiti Coffee was leaving the door open for mp win last election.
I think I took from the original link the idea that Labour might decide to go hard after all the Māori seats again and thus bring down the Mp. Which would be stupid IMO because it doesn’t get them any more MPs (not sure what happens with the overhang from the Mp), and if it doesn’t work they’ve made another enemy. I don’t think they, or the left, can afford that even if I thought it was a valid strategy. Which I don’t. We should be looking at Mp policy and whether they can support a LW govt.
I prefer to say, Mana have been sin binned from the process because the status quoians didn’t like the rough play in opposing the system itself. That which cannot be controlled must be eliminated.
Funny though all the Mana Movement people I know are still out there, as before, fighting for equality and dignity and an end to unnecessary suffering. Kia kaha to them!
+1 that. I think too many people miss the ‘movement’ bit, and as with perceptions of the Greens, they don’t recognise that politics are being done differently.
Manas the only party that had a chance of awakening a reasonable proportion of the missing million , so i hope they make a comeback , I just think that those newbies they got voting last election are unlikely to get exited again after the last dissapiontment .
“We are stupid and rather venal bastards who, for personal gain, have worked to make you complicit in the willful destruction of everything our civilisation stands on. Look!”
That would be the underlying gist of the headlines that we’ll never see.
Sadly it is basic human nature that is the problem and only a few realise it has to be controlled if we are to progress. The “I’m [relatively] ok .. f… you mate” attitude to be found in almost everybody left or right thinking.
Nah. There are many facets to ‘basic human nature’. It’s up to us what facets we encourage. Our current socio/economic/political set ups don’t exactly encourage the best in us. We really do get ahead at present if we’re willing to rub the fucking ground.
Indeed.
Why is Labour still in support of deep sea oil drilling?
There are no votes in it.
There are no jobs in it.
And they could use Winnie’s continued support for deep sea oil drilling in Northland to beat him around the head with, to get him to separate off from the, drill it, mine it, frack it, burn it, Nact coalition of climate vandals.
Which would be essential if Labour are to ever head a majority coalition government.
It looks like scary times are ahead of us. It seems robots are learning how to make decisions on their own and it has been recommended that all robots in the future, whatever their jobs are, are fitted with a kill switch. Who would have thought that science fiction writers would be bringing it all to life with robots now being able to out wit their creators. Also, if killer switches are to be made they have to be kept isolated from the robot so he can’t have fore knowledge of what it is meant for.
Big business may see the irony of all this with culling of staff and using robots on killing chains and automotive factories. Fun times ahead.
Unqualified multi-millionaire Clinton Foundation donor given position on State Department nuclear weapons advisory board
Newly released State Department emails help reveal how a major Clinton Foundation donor was placed on a sensitive government intelligence advisory board even though he had no obvious experience in the field, a decision that appeared to baffle the department’s professional staff.
The emails further reveal how, after inquiries from ABC News, the Clinton staff sought to “protect the name” of the Secretary, “stall” the ABC News reporter and ultimately accept the resignation of the donor just two days later.
Copies of dozens of internal emails were provided to ABC News by the conservative political group Citizens United, which obtained them under the Freedom of Information Act after more the two years of litigation with the government.
A prolific fundraiser for Democratic candidates and contributor to the Clinton Foundation, who later traveled with Bill Clinton on a trip to Africa, Rajiv K. Fernando’s only known qualification for a seat on the International Security Advisory Board (ISAB) was his technological know-how. The Chicago securities trader, who specialized in electronic investing, sat alongside an august collection of nuclear scientists, former cabinet secretaries and members of Congress to advise Hillary Clinton on the use of tactical nuclear weapons and on other crucial arms control issues.
“We had no idea who he was,” one board member told ABC News.
Are the Green Party in denial about climate change?
In my comment here, on the Green Party co-leader James Shaw’s keynote speech to the Green Party conference, I included my transcription of this paragraph.
@35:08 minutes
“I want to give New Zealanders a better vision of the future, it’s a future where on your weekends away you will go to sleep at night safely knowing that the same beach you are enjoying now will still be there for future generations unthreatened by rising seas….” James Shaw
Which was commented on by greywarshark, and Robert Guyton here and here, remarking that this comment by the Green Party leader seemed to be out of touch with the reality.
“Am I getting unreasonably anxious at this report on James Shaw’s speech in Jenny’s comment….
….Surely if this quote or paraphrasing is correct, he is looking to something real that is now just a wish.”
greywarshark
The tenor of Grey’s and Robert’s criticism was summed up in the concluding comment by weka.
“Seas are going to rise, but we still have a chance to mitigate the worst of CC. Do we want subsequent generations to live in contant panic? Or do we want them to be able to respond to the changes in their environment knowing that we are all doing everything we can, and that we chose to avert the worst of teh disaster.” weka
Which in my opinion is an accurate summation of the action that is called for.
1/ From mentioning a vision in which sea levels do not rise. Does the Green Leader go on to promote or suggest any course of acton that may possibly “mitigate the worst of CC”?
2/ Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?
3/ Does the Green Party leadership outline a course of action in which future generations will “be able to respond to the changes in their environment”?
4/ Is the Green Party calling on us to do “everything we can”, or that we “chose to”, to avert the worst of this disaster?
My conclusion given here, is that the answer to all four questions is no. (Well not at their conference anyway).
Robert Guyton concludes his comment on this portion of James Shaw’s speech with this comment;
“Hard, cold facts are suitable for certain occasions but not all. Walking up to some vulnerable soul in the street and telling them the “truth” could be a bit harsh if it leaves them a puddle of despair. I’m keen to have a closer look now, at James’ speech. I’ll report back 🙂 Robert Guyton
I would like to ask Robert, now that he has had a chance to have a closer look at James speech, and possibly Meteria Turei’s as well, that now might might be a good time to give us your report back.
Robert in your opinion, does the Green Party fulfil any of the 4 points raised by weka?
Robert in your opinion is the Green Party in denial about climate change?
It’s worse with the Greens – they know better than most about the severity of climate change, but have decided to tone all of that down in public in order to chase power.
Colonial Viper – it would be rude of me to re-title you, Colonial Griper, so I’ll resist the temptation, but Ad is correct in what he says to you. Mind you, I’m all ears and they are pricked in anticipation of your suggested alternative to voting Green, with “potential to address climate change” as the deciding factor. I would like you to explain how ‘toning it down in public’ is a reason not to vote for them, if that’s in fact what you’ve decided, and whether you believe that a political party is the best vehicle for broadcasting the climate situation and responses to it? Personally, I don’t.
Cheers.
Colonial Viper.
You don’t care who I vote for? Hmmm…I thought you might be interested in linking readers opinions with their voting choices. I know I like to do that as it provides insight. No matter.
You said, quite correctly, that “they” are toning down the truth that they know inside”, but went on to give your opinion about why they have done that. Your view seems jaded; you use words like “vain attempt” (do you think they will fail?) and “power and respectability” (you’ve spoken to these MPs? They say they are seeking “power and respectability”?). I think you assume too, too much. Also, you sound dismissive and superior, somehow. Do you despise the Green MPs? I know these questions/challenges are not going to endear me to you, and I suspect we hold very similar views about things, it’s just that I’m feeling feisty today, following an evening of dosie-doeing at a local barn dance. The Waves of Tory does that to ya.
“I just said that they were toning down the truth that they know inside, in a vain attempt to reach for power and respectability from the status quo.”
That’s one way to look at it. Another way is that all the people on the climate change bandwagon now, who didn’t vote for the GP all those years when they were being radical, are hypocrites for criticising the Greens now for being pragmatic because it’s our only hope.
Weka – well put. This reaction is not unexpected and I imagine the Green MPs have considered long and hard, how to manage the phenomenon you describe. Kindly, would be my bet. I don’t think we’ll see the Greens saying, f-you guys, I’m going home.
True. Which is why I find CV’s perspective that the Greens are just another bunch of powermongers says more about him than anything. It is sad though, because it comes across as yet another unnecessary fight on the left when we are running out of time.
In the lead up to the election the attackers of the greens and labour should be ignored.
If the get elected ( the labour/greens) , then is the time to publicly dismantle their actions and debate their failings. in my most humble opinion
Meh, your rationale is that the Greens are justified in watering down their positions because they need more votes. That’s chasing power at the expense of their principles, clear and simple.
That’s one way to look at it. Another way is that all the people on the climate change bandwagon now, who didn’t vote for the GP all those years when they were being radical, are hypocrites for criticising the Greens now for being pragmatic because it’s our only hope.
I’ve seen you use this sad excuse a few times now.
That is, because old timers didn’t vote for the Values Party in the 70s, the successor Green Party is now (somehow) justified 40 years later in going soft around the middle and chasing the establishment, pretend and extend vote.
BTW the Greens aren’t any kind of “hope”, other than perhaps providing a slightly better version of pretend and extend which might give us an extra decade of relative niceness compared to more right wing parties.
Play whatever game you want CV, it’s pretty clear what I’m talking about. If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time? Rhetorical question.
it’s not the specific policies of the 1970s Values Party, its the fact that back then they stood tall and uncompromising in what they believed in despite the ridicule of most of the rest of the nation.
That stands in stark contrast to the modern Greens.
” If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time?”
“it’s not the specific policies of the 1970s Values Party, its the fact that back then they stood tall and uncompromising in what they believed in despite the ridicule of most of the rest of the nation.”
I can certainly see why you personally would value that so highly. And fair enough. That doesn’t mean what they’ve done since is wrong. It’s easily arguable that what they have achieved in the intervening decades, including getting climate change on the agenda, is a result of them deciding not to stay on the fringe but to work within the mainstream. There’s nothing wrong with working in the mainstream, in fact we should be greatful to the people who can and will do that because it comes at a significant personal costs. We need good people there as much as we need the radicals on the fringe.
Which takes me back to my original point. My understanding is that you have become aware of peak oil and cc in more recent years (5 or 6?), and have have formed your ideas about them in that time. But prior to that time, all the time the Greens (not Values) were in parliament and lefties like you wouldn’t vote for them, you were diminishing our chances of having a more radical Green voice in parliament. Because they knew what was coming before we did, and that lack of support then is why we have the GP we do today. If they wanted to have parliamentary power they needed votes. NZ fucked that up big time. To then turn around and criticise them for not being radical enough now is hypocrisy, doubly so because you still don’t support or vote for the only party in parliament that is leading the way on cc.
” If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time?”
Uh what? I was not in Labour at that time.
I’m not talking about the 70s. Which I’m pretty sure you know.
Colonial Viper – a political party, Green or otherwise, is just a piece in the game that is ‘the future’, as I’m sure you know. I expect also that you are ‘playing’ with the other pieces available to you; friends and family, networks and community, local government and NLGO’s like Transition Towns or whatever has sprung up in your area – a widely-cast net catches the most fish. A political party has a highly restrictive zone to operate in – if the don’t play well, they have little or no influence at all. You don’t trust the Green Party MPs, staff and particularly their strategists, to play their hand to the best advantage of us all, which is how I believe the operate, and denigrate them accordingly. I’m not certain why you believe you have the inside running on the Green Party’s strategy and motivations, but recognise that you believe you are ‘lifting the ‘team’ higher; how, I’ve not yet fathomed, but will pay attention till I do – perhaps you could help with a brief description of what your ‘play’ is – I’m am interested to know. I make my judgement of the Greens based on what I’ve experienced personally with it and the people who have driven it over the past decades; weighing their other actions and positions, particularly where their work intersects with my own in the field of ecology. I’ve found that the depth of understanding exhibited by Green MPs in particular, is strikingly in advance of that of other politicians, including around climate change, and have never seen signs of them carelessly casting that position aside for the sake of votes – strategic retreats, yes, but no ‘selling out’ where it really counts – at the philosophical and ethical base. It may be that the Greens should sound the trumpets of war over the issue, but I’m willing to think that they’ve thought long and hard about how to bring the most relief to the illness climate change represents.
Ah, and that’s where you and I have common ground, pretty much. I don’t believe they’ll do nothing – I think they’ll do all they can and that’s all we can hope for from any player.
Cv article in nbr today debunking sea levels rising by anything near what models predict. the gist been the models themselves are flawed vs empirical data. If you have access be interested on your view as wil get a response without abuse.These conflicting scientific views does make getting to a conclusion on climate change difficult,
The ice over Greenland and over Antarctica is in places between 3km and 4km deep. That’s a lot of water.
An iceless, warm water Earth will see sea levels rise between 70m and 100m.
Losing the Greenland ice sheet alone will raise sea levels by 5m or more. Dunedin and Christchurch are over as habitable cities in such a scenario.
We have currently seen only about 1/2 of the temp increase due to today’s level of CO2 emissions thanks to the thermal inertia of the system. (Think about a pot of water on the electric stove – the stove top gets hot but the water in the pot stays cool, for a while at least. You measure the temperature of the water but nothing much seems to happen. You can turn off the stove top, but the temperature of the water will keep going up due to the delay).
Taking current warming experienced as being about 1.1 deg C, Global Dimming temporarily hiding another 1 deg C to 1.5 deg C, and roughly another 1.1 deg C of warming to occur regardless of what we do today, I can comfortably say that we are going to experience no less than about 3.2 deg C warming in total.
That’s the 21st century min temp increase.
And that means most of the Greenland ice, amongst others, will destabilise and melt – over time.
So whether it is this century or next century, we will see multi-metre sea level rise.
My best bet is 10m sea level rise by 2100, and 5 deg C to 10 deg C increase. We already have the first 3 to 3.5 deg C of that done and in the bag.
thanks Cv while you logic makes sense ( albeit level of sea rise is a value judgement)
These guys Willem de Lange, MSc DPhil, is a senior lecturer at the University of Waikato. Bryan Leyland MSc, FIEE(retired), FIMechE, FIPENZ argue the models predicting temperature rises are flawed, They argue that the Royal Society of New Zealand’s recent study on sea level rise claims that, in the next 100 years, sea levels will surely rise by 0.3m and 1m is possible ( let alone your 10m) is flawed on the basis claim does not stand up to close examination.
First, the rise in sea level and New Zealand coast has been about 0.14m over the past 100 years, with no sign of a recent increase in the rate.
They argue is no solid evidence to indicate this steady rate will increase rapidly in the future. They believe that the Royal Society’s claims are based on flawed climate models that predicted, by now, temperatures would be 0.5° higher than they really are and increasing faster and faster.They further point out there is no solid evidence to indicate this steady rate will increase rapidly in the future.
The essence of thier article is when dubious data were fed into Royal Society sea level models, they predicted rapidly increasing sea level rise.
They further argue indirectly by quoting Russian climate model that assumes CO2 makes only a small contribution to global warming that these models more matches recent temperatures and Perhaps these model it is right.
I guess it comes down to the collective view of science which argues in favour of climate change, I also note your reasoning on delay in system and then the affects become exponential, but I do suggest at this point the level of change, how much is man made and wether we can or the cost of doing anything about it is still open for debate
Hansen is quite clear that paleoclimatology, i.e. looking at climate records going back millions of years, has provided a fair degree of certainty.
Bottom line is that the models that have been used by the IPCC and others are almost definitely wrong, but those guys you quote think that they are wrong one way, and Hansen and others think they are wrong the other way.
I don’t know how old you are or where you live, but I’ve made sure that I am living in a place which will stay high and dry for over 50 years even within a worst case sea level rise scenario.
Just remember, an ice free world indicates a 70-100m sea level rise, and this has happened before in the natural history of the world.
Others like him are equally entrenched. Time spent defending and explaining is time that could be better spent lifting your own team higher. ‘sup to you, of course. ‘snot my job to tell you what to do 🙂
Live on a hill CV so all good. Contrary to feedback not sure where I am at on climate change. What i would like to see is more synthesis of various competing arguments and studies on climate change as you appear to get one view or the other For the layman it can be difficult to judge and simply reaching a view on political lines as many seem to do here does not really help, This is why I raised this article and sort your feedback as I new I would get one with out the usual BS , and thus you have lifted the team higher 😀
A pleasure to discuss with you Red Delusion, and thank you. Also worth checking where your services go through. Pipes, wires, pumping stations and exchanges your street relies upon may reside in or go through lower more easily waterlogged areas.
So the NBR is continuing to promote climate change denial. Hope that means all their rich readers go and buy low lying properties off the less well off, so that it’s those wealthy climate change deniers who get flooded in the not so distant future. Sadly thats probably not the way it will work out.
If you are too green to support the Green Party you’re going to have a difficult time voting or otherwise participating in an election. They are as strong and as green as you are going to get anywhere in the world.
I’m always confused by this kind of politics – where someone else offers you a set menu and you contort your personal position away from what you really believe to conform to an option that someone else has picked for you.
Hello, Jenny.
You seem to be asking if the solution to the problem of climate change can be found by parsing the words from the speeches of a politician (or two).
I say no to that.
If you were asking my to choose which political party in New Zealand is most likely to have MPs who have a realistic grasp of what climate change is about and what might result from it, then I’d choose the Green Party, and that’s by a significant margin. I have had face to face discussions with Kennedy Graham, Metiria Turei, Russel Norman, Nandor Tanzcos, Rod Donald, Jeanette Fitzsimons, Gareth Hughes and many of the other Green MPs, past and present, so I’m basing my opinion on more than just what I read in their speeches. That means that I can answer your question, “…is the Green Party in denial about climate change?” with certainty, by saying,emphatically, no, it is not. Weka’s “4 points” are, apologies here, weka, not an especially useful vehicle for thinking about this issue, in my view. For example, the question that asks: “Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?” is nebulous and not pointed enough to illicit a real-world answer, in my view. Asking questions is essential, but the right ones can difficult to compose.
I wonder, Jenny, what you are doing today, aside from posting here? I’ve been doing what I do every day; making real-world preparations for the future by doing things that would fit comfortably into The ArchDruid’s “Green Wizard” guide to useful pursuits 🙂 Fortunately, communicating online is one of those things:-)
I wonder, Jenny, what you are doing today, aside from posting here? Robert Guyton
Hi Robert, haven’t you learnt to play the ball not the player.
As far as I know I have as much right to post here as you. As to what I am doing today. I shouldn’t have to justify myself.
Not that it is any of your business. But I actually at home because I am unwell. And please don’t let me burden the readers with the gory details.
But, for all you know I could be as incapacitated as Professor Hawking, so please don’t use this line of attack again. (On anyone).
But I have to thank you.
Your efforts to avoid giving a straight answer have made me so angry that I am getting up and going out, and doing all those things, that just like you say, I should be doing.
Hopefully when I come back and have I calmed down. I will be able to give you a more fuller reply.
Jenny – you misread the tone of my comment and I’m sorry for that – it was not a negative criticism of you or what you might or might not be doing. I learned long ago not to play the man (or woman) unless there’s entertainment to be had by doing so. I’m not above gently ribbing.
As for your getting angry, I’ll put that down to your feeling unwell and hope you recover fully, soon. Your decision to get up and do all those things sounds like a good one and when you have regained your equilibrium, please do write back. I hope you’ll see that I was neither attacking you, nor doing anything other than giving my best-considered answers.
“Weka’s “4 points” are, apologies here, weka, not an especially useful vehicle for thinking about this issue, in my view.”
Hi Robert, they’re not my points, they’re Jenny’s. She is misrepresenting things (not for the first time). She obviously has a lot of passion about climate change but I find her approach confusing and unhelpful. I can’t make much sense of her original comment up thread, because she is mixing up so many different people’s views and arguments.
I did this deliberately to show that even by your own standards the New Zealand Green Party are denying, (if that is not too strong a word)** the reality of climate change. (Unlike CV or RG, I do not try to guess or impute any motive for this denial.)
The following is your original quote, and my break down of it. This time I have removed the numbers, which I admit may have been a bit of clumsy device to use to make my point.
“Seas are going to rise, but we still have a chance to mitigate the worst of CC. Do we want subsequent generations to live in contant panic? Or do we want them to be able to respond to the changes in their environment knowing that we are all doing everything we can, and that we chose to avert the worst of teh disaster.”
weka
Does the Green Leader go on to promote or suggest any course of acton that may possibly “mitigate the worst of CC”?
Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?
Does the Green Party leadership outline a course of action in which future generations will “be able to respond to the changes in their environment”?
Is the Green Party calling on us to do “everything we can”, or that we “chose to”, to avert the worst of this disaster?
I had directed these question to Robert Guyton because he had written that maybe the reason the Green Party play down climate change is so as to not frighten the man in the street.
Also Robert had promised to have a closer look at James speech and report back.
“Hard, cold facts are suitable for certain occasions but not all. Walking up to some vulnerable soul in the street and telling them the “truth” could be a bit harsh if it leaves them a puddle of despair. I’m keen to have a closer look now, at James’ speech. I’ll report back” 🙂
Robert Guyton
Personally I had thought that James Shaw’s speech was inspiring and uplifting, even though it contained no concrete Green Party proposals on climate change. I made allowances for this, in that I believed at the time of reading and listening to James speech, that he was holding back so as to not preempt the next day’s advertised June 5 Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign by Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei.
I had expected a lot from the Centrepiece Launch because I remember James Shaw at the beginning of his tenure as Green Party co-leader promising that he would be making climate change the centrepiece of the Green Party’s campaigns.
I wrote on the Sunday Morning that I was really looking forward to that day’s Green Party Centre Piece launch, and I was.
Unfortunately I was terribly disappointed. The Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign was a rehash of the Green Party’s “Clean Rivers Campaign” with which the Green Party have fought the last two elections, relabelled as the “Swimmable Rivers Campaign”.
Now don’t get me wrong, I think that the terrible condition of our rivers needs to be addressed, but I don’t think that this should be used as an excuse to ignore climate change.
In Meteria Turei’s Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign, she made only the briefest possible mention of the two words “climate change”, which Meteria spoke in an aside from her main address. The two words climate change were tacked on the end of a short list of things that Meteria said the government was neglecting. And that was it. That was the only mention, of the biggest environmental catastrophe of all time.
Frankly speaking I thing that this was a disgrace and an insult to all those working and campaigning against climate change both here and overseas.
**Personally I do not think that the New Zealand Green Party are climate change deniers in the usual way this term is used and implied, I prefer the more accurate term Climate Change ignorers. A policy which I think we can all agree the New Zealand Green Party leadership have been actively pursuing for several years now. (If ignoring something can be considered something that is active, rather than passive.)
They’re not my words in the end though, you’ve taken them out of their context. They’re just words that you used and incorrectly attributed to me so that Robert (and possibly others) thought your questions were mine. Can you please be more careful in future?
We disagree about the role of the Green Party so I’ll leave it at that.
You are avoiding the issue.
Weka those are your own words.
You were commenting on a thread about James Shaw statement that in the future we will be able to visit a beach where the sea level won’t rise.
What can we make of this?
That the Green Party starting with their co-leader James Shaw are playing a game of sticking their fingers in their ears and going La-la-la-la-la?
James Shaw drew a word picture where everyone drives electric cars and all freight goes by rail, and sea level rise doesn’t happen, and said, “this is not science fiction.” But James Shaw did not forward one single political demand on how we get from the present, where climate change and sea level rise is a real world phenomenon, to his imagined world, where it isn’t.
Nothing about opposing deep sea oil drilling.
Nothing about insisting that the new coal mine projects in the pipeline in this country be scrapped.
Nothing about switching the $11 billion put aside for new motorways to public transport.
No mention of the Government using fraudulent carbon credits to cheat the ETS
No call to oppose the extension of the life of the coal fired Huntly power station.
No call to withdraw the government’s subsidies to Solid Energy and the oil companies.
No mention of what to do about climate refugees from our neighbouring Pacific countries directly threatened by climate change.
No ‘real world’ policy on climate change at all, zip, zero, nada.
What about Meteria Turei’s “Green Party Centrepiece Environmental Campaign Launch”, the following day, which was even worse. Turei mentioned the two words “climate change”, only once and in an aside from her main speech, and only then, in a recitation of a list of other things.
Ignoring climate change, the Green Party Centrepiece Environmental Campaign launch. Announced that the Green Party’s intention is to make “Swimmable Rivers” the centrepiece campaign of the Green Party.
(Which is a repackaging of the Green Party’s “Clean Rivers” campaign with which the Green Party have fought the last two elections with).
“Swimmable Rivers” while a nice ideal, won’t make a jot of difference if the rest of the biosphere is degraded by climate change, algae blooms, deoxidation as warm water holds less oxygen. And not directly related to rivers, the acidification of the oceans, will undo all the work to make rivers nice enough to swim in. And I might mention here that if climate change is not seriously addressed, having somewhere nice to swim may be the least of our problems.
So, what about the greatest environmental disaster of all time?
Have the Green Party given up on combating climate change?
Has climate change been put in the too hard basket by the Green Party?
How come, not one single policy mention, or announced initiative.
Not one single political demand.
Don’t the Green Party know that the Great Barrier Reef is dying, don’t they know the Arctic is losing its ice cover? is the Green Party not aware that the record breaking flood disasters around the globe that are inundating river side communities, and eroding river banks are due to warmer air holding more moisture, or that record forest fires, are due to the drying out of once temperate zones?
I don’t believe that the Green Party could be so ignorant.
So we are left with the question; is the Green Party too frightened of the government and the powerful fossil fuel lobby to demand action on climate change?
I ask you weka, what the hell is going on?
When even by your own standards the Green Party fall well short of the four ideas you raised in your concluding comment to the thread on James Shaw’s statement on climate change contained in his keynote speech.
Weka will you not face up to my comment on the apparent Green Party sell out on climate change? Instead of choosing to indulge in pedantic dancing around on the head of the pin, why not address the issue?
So weka;
Is it your opinion weka that this is not a sell out?
Do you think weka that the Green Party leadership will be launching campaigning initiatives on the issue of climate change at some future conference?
“We disagree about the role of the Green Party so I’ll leave it at that.” weka
Typical. This is just the sort of cowardly avoidance to face up to the issues that I am talking about.
Weka can’t you even try to defend your Party’s direction? Is it to scary to face up to climate change, and what it means for the environment?
Is the Green Party are named after the wrong colour?
Are the Green Party too gutless to take on the fossil fuel lobby?
Should the Green Party be renamed the Yellow Party for their intransigence over refusing to take climate change seriously?
If the Green Party had any courage or moral compass climate change should be their “Centrepiece Campaign” because everything flows from that. (literally).
Why the Green Party “Swimmable Rivers”, “Centrepiece Campaign” which marginalises and ignores debate on climate change is completely idiotic and cowardly.
While the Green Party are making plans to recreate their bucolic youth swimming in picturesque waterways. Climate change is stalking the world’s rivers threatening to turn them into deadly torrents at the slightest notice.
So how do the Green Party intend to achieve their swimmable rivers?
Mandating the building of bigger and better sewerage and waste water treatment plants?, the replanting of riverbanks?
Don’t they know that just this sort of riverside infrastructure is extremely vulnerable to being swept away in the next muddy torrent?
The Green Party have the chance to act on climate change.
The newly signed MoU between the Greens and Labour both parties gave a commitment to support each other’s private members bills.
The Green Party need to start putting up private members bills to raise the national debate on climate change and nudge the Labour Party away from their support for business as usual.
First up should be a private members bill to scrap the ETS which on the current ballance of power in the house may even have a chance of passing if Labour supported it.
Next up should be a private members bill calling for the end of deep sea oil drilling challenging Labour to support it.
And probably one of the biggest bugbears of the climate change movement a bill to repeal the legislation in the RMA which prohibits climate change being taken into account as grounds for rejecting new fossil fuel projects.
These things can be done right now.
But they won’t.
Because the Green Party “Centrepiece Environmental Campaign” is swimmable rivers.
Cowardly, weak, fluffy. And with years of make work in Select committees and planning hearings which even if the Green Party get all the improvements they seek will be washed away in the next climate change fuelled mega flood.
I see, thanks, weka. Glitches aside, a progressive approach to this is the way forward. Let’s see what we’ve got, not what’s weighing-down the naysayers.
This manufacturing of consent and the media knowing what not to talk about, could also go some way to explain the Green Party’s self censorship over climate change.
Was WWI really the first time public opinion was mechanized towards war? I would agree if he said it was the first time it had been mechanized within a modern democracy. But kings had been doing it with priests from Egypt’s first kingdom.
I do get his point about cigarette marketing within Hollywood. Very clever.
But his claims that propaganda is now the most powerful now than it has ever been is a ridiculous reach. His talk works best for the 1970s and 1980s, when the era of television reigned supreme. No longer.
An entire nation has been convinced that short term selfishness is the way that a small elite clique should rule the country, and somehow you believe that propaganda isn’t as powerful as ever, that propaganda only effects earlier, simpler, less smart people.
Bernays understood human nature better than most of us, I daresay. And better than the intellectual Left in general.
And he formulated his best work BEFORE the age of television.
No, Dr Miller’s argument was that this current era is the most propaganda-saturated era. I was arguing with Miller, not Bernays particularly.
I also think that short term selfishness is just an historic human tendency.
Modern advertising seeks to influence across competing product ranges. Whereas monarchies have employed religions more powerfully and towards more singular ends than modern advertising ever could.
I would argue though that the fracturing of the media landscape over the last decade has fractured the ‘Amusing Ourselves to Death’ argument/paranoia that we heard from Neil Postman, when tv and MTV and music manufacturers reigned supreme. No one sings the national anthem at the movies anymore.
The propaganda of the day isn’t aimed at the masses.
It is aimed at the comfortable middle classes – who think they are the guardians of commonsense and right thinking in society – and the elite, the people who make up the backbone of the status quo establishment.
As for the fracturing of the media landscape. That has made it harder to communicate a single cohesive propaganda narrative. But that in of itself has nothing to do with how saturated our living space is with propaganda.
Finally, you have to understand that the western style of propaganda focusses on the propaganda of omission. Omitting crucial voices on subjects like climate change, poverty, war, economics, homelessness.
Once you wonder why certain critical facts never get mentioned, or why certain experts are never interviewed, you wake up to how pervasive this propaganda is.
The first problem there is making one category, ‘propaganda’, stretch too far. It doesn’t allow Miller to focus on anything helpfully. All classes get targeted. We just feel most closely the messaging directed towards the class we are in. Which again, just confuses one era with a mere human tendency.
I’d also have to disagree though with his idea that propaganda is principally driven by retail corporations and a few smart evil guys. Far better to consider the whole empire of ideas and how they are reified and amplified across MSM and digital media, across religions, across parties, across state rulers, across kinds of military, across NGOs including unions – now that would be a useful theory for our moment. He’s swinging for the easy hits.
Just to focus on one realm; political parties: since Obama 2008 we have already seen the left have far greater tools within the digital ream than in the MSM. Within the political realm alone the digital contest of ideas, largely free from advertising or taint present or absent, is spectacular in its rise. So what he’s missing is the free will present even within the most message-filled modes.
Witness two: relentless adopters New Zealand. Whaleoil and Kiwiblog and The Standard could well be some great vast conspiracy in which all speech is really just predetermined Marxist/Calvinist propaganda, but in reality the multitude is showing more power within these modes. Especially now, we can trust the multitude to make their voice clear.
Well, if you are right and there is a lively, true contest of ideas out there in the media market place representing the independent voice of the masses, then we won’t be have any problems with our democracy reflecting the true aspirations, attitudes and concerns of Kiwis.
I think that’s bunk of course, and that our democracy is not just sick, but further sickening, but that’s just me.
The first problem there is making one category, ‘propaganda’, stretch too far. It doesn’t allow Miller to focus on anything helpfully.
Well if the Left in NZ is more clever than this guy then we shouldn’t have too much trouble getting our desired messaging across to more voters eh.
It’s not just the left.
It’s a tribute to the communicative skills of both Sanders and Trump that they have got so far, so fast, with stuff-all corporate funding and stuff-all MSM relationships, and the MSM working double time against them. They simply have excellent political skills.
(Indeed so does Warren. And Peters taking Northland out of nowhere!)
That’s the real confusion here. We presume because the left have been out of power for so long, that there’s some great conspiracy of inevitability. Human agency is real; is, I think, more powerful than ever, and that is especially the case in politics.
I only focussed on political propaganda and political agency because this is what we generally discuss here.
But, as I pointed out, by mashing together political and commercial propaganda, he misses out vast other fields of communicative influence. All you have done in trying to separate out ‘political operations’ from ‘propaganda operations’ is admit that the sweeping term ‘propaganda’ doesn’t hold any analytical clarity for us.
If he was really having a crack at how ideas form and get amplified and change behavior across the military, across religions, across MSM, across digital realms, across kinds of state, across NGOs and unions, now there would be a useful theory. He doesn’t, so isn’t useful.
Sorry mate, this guy has studied American media and propaganda for decades including how elections are stolen; I can learn and integrate more useful from him on this topic.
BTW I believe Chris Hedges, the veteran foreign correspondent, would agree with him more than he would with you.
His issue about the growing dependency of MSM reporters upon state institutions for stories is fair. They are definitely vulnerable. But if ever I get worried that there are no more ‘Goodnight, and Good Luck’ stories, I just flick to Rachel Maddow and Mr Oliver.
I would also agree with the self-ceonsorship point, but particularly about the security state within China and the US. The violence and humiliation to the big whistleblowers over the last decade is quite some policing.
But I own a full set of National Geographics going back from 1933 to the 1970s. Call me a nerd. Now there you see the growth of industrial propaganda mechanizing through World War Two, accelerating with the growth of the state, but also watching their interests shear away from each other in the 1970s. One might argue in response simply that “propaganda” is simply more subtle and hence more pervasive. I think we have to honour the power of the patterns of the past
I hate his idea that the “window slammed shut” in the 1980s. That is so foolish. The melancholic left fools itself into defeat. There are now always multiple competing empires. In fact especially now. Need I say it, if propaganda really worked, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump would never have got off the ground. This guy is a pale imitation of Chomsky’s more original Manufacturing Consent, when the causal links were nice and clear.
I have to say Ad that would have to be a record for condemning someone, what a single 28 minute interview?
But the point is, just in case you missed it, that propaganda works best when people deny it is even happening. Or put it onto the other, I see you went for both arguments.
Interesting that you reached for Trump and Sanders, good point all politicians use propaganda. I’d say Trump is rather good at it. His use of the medium, and shifting the debate – has been masterful, love him or hate him.
Look on here the last few days, and me bemoaning about talking points – which are a instrument of propaganda. Te Reo Putake, has run with clinton talking points for weeks – or in layman’s terms, the propaganda set out by the clinton campaigner. He is entitled too, that is what this site was set up for. But it is still propaganda.
I think you want propaganda wrapped up as something that happens elsewhere, and don’t want to admit your thoughts are not your own. It is horrific position position to be in, it happens to us all in the 21st century.
You are making ‘propaganda’ to be simply: ‘the stuff I disagree with you on’. That’s just a categorical confusion.
Your talking point about talking points isn’t very helpful. People reify overseas opinions all the time. Calling that propaganda is just silly. Far better to tease out and name the intersecting influences into actual real powers.
If you look back on this site over two months about the number of posts supporting Sanders versus those supporting Clinton, Sanders does pretty well. Very well: count them up.
Propaganda is too often used as a term by leftie conspiracy theorists to suggest that there is an all-knowing, all-present, Sauron-like ether of influence that determines the world. Which, for socialists who have been out of power since the 1980s, probably feels about right.
But that’s just a sad confusion of political history with theory.
There were a few who tried that in the late 1980s, particularly Fredereic Jamieson’s Postmodernism, or: The Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism. That didn’t even survive the Bushes for relevancy.
It is at times quite depressing reading what you write Ad. Your blanket given up – crosses over to, we should give up and accept it. Nothing will change, maybe a little, is deeply troubling.
In the 21 century right, power resides in the hands of a few at the expense of the many.
Are you so naive as to think that people in power don’t us every trick they have to hold onto that power?
I don’t care who had how many posts sanders or clinton, it has to do with the angles and approaches people take on those post. That those angles and approaches have been governed by propaganda. If the propaganda is good then these framing is what was laid out from those camps. If not, then they were not talked about.
I’m getting the feeling you don’t like the word propaganda. It is a word to cover the simple and complex idea that – someone is using a message to promote a certain point of view.
So in politics, we deal in propaganda all the time, advertising, public relations, lobbying, education, books, video games, web page developers. All these people are propagandist. People get offended when called out that is what they do. Sneaky feeling you many be one of them?
But what was truly sad was when you reached for the third crotch of people who don’t want to accept that propaganda exist in their society, and call everyone who says it does a conspiracy theorist. A very weak position, makes you sound like you did not watch the video. Because…
Bloody nora. Next you will say there are no ideologies? No theological differences? That it is wrong to offend people? And that conspiracies do not happen. That juts playing into the hands of power, to weaken working people even more.
I know it’s a bit like the stages of grief learning that you are be manipulated at a sociological level. Good news, after the denial stage, it gets easier. More good news, knowing that is what is happening, you can take steps to acknowledge when you become influenced by propaganda.
But his claims that propaganda is now the most powerful now than it has ever been is a ridiculous reach.
You’re talking out your arse.
Propaganda exists in video games, novels, advertising and politics. And probably other places that I haven’t thought about.
And it is more powerful. A huge amount of research has gone into it over the last 100 odd years since Bernays started it. I mentioned video games and that’s because modern video games are designed to draw you in and keep you there, to keep you paying to play. I’ve got a pet on my World of Warcraft characters that can be ‘charged up’ in either red or blue if I buy a particular type of drink that comes in, you guessed it, red and blue.
I’ve read quite a bit about how games and advertising manipulate, there really is no other word, people into doing things that they haven’t really thought about.
‘Income inequality declined abruptly in 2013 after President Obama and Congress negotiated an increase in taxes on the wealthiest Americans, according to new federal data.’
I hope for it too Weka but not with a pin-prick but by government building houses, a slow process which should help all but the extremely foolish to survive.
On the other hand it is questionable if the industry can cope and really mass production of pre-fabs/basic housing units is the only way to get on top of the problem, but can you imagine the current or future govt doing that … I cannot more is the pity.
Plenty of ways to get affordable housing in NZ, but people don’t want to talk about them because they see home ownership as primarily an investment. IMO, that’s why we can’t resolve the current situation.
Long term stabilization for me please in the overheated parts of the country, and government policies to to reinvigorate the provinces so they catch up up bit so the country isn’t devided by house price.
Agora 9
10 June 2016 at 10:16 am
Further to your comment about NZ and its large debt … matched by individuals I believe.
Kim Hill talking to an economist writer from the UK who pointed out that people today accept large credit card debts as part of life. Whereas my aim was to treat mine as a monthly account as many folk had in the ‘old days’ and for the past few years I have managed this.
Banking is a great business to be in … even a crash will have them coming out smelling of roses is recent US/UK experience is anything to go by.
A new technique turns climate-warming carbon emissions to stone. In a test program in Iceland, more than 95 percent of the carbon dioxide injected into basaltic lava rocks mineralized into solid rock within two years. This surprisingly fast transformation quarantined the CO2 from the atmosphere and could ultimately help offset society’s greenhouse gas emissions, scientists report in the June 10 Science.
I’ve spent the afternoon listening to the soundtrack of Hamilton. Which is about US founding father Alexander Hamilton. It’s really entertaining for history and politics nerds like myself.
‘EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 12 days to go
Exclusive: polling carried out for ‘The Independent’ shows that 55 per cent of UK voters intend to vote for Britain to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum.’
Cameron’s already announced he will step down as prime minister before the 2020 election, although he still intends to run as an MP. I think a vote to leave the EU will trigger his departure from No 10, or even a very tight vote to remain.
Quite interested in Winnie’s advice to Britain that they’d be better off voting for Brexit, foregoing the small European ‘family’ market with all its limitations and restrictive rules and looking to the wider international market ( including New Zealand). Dunno much about it but does that make sense?
There are now only a few days left to give feedback on the Draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport 2024-34 (see our earlier post this week on GPS submission guides). As we’ve reported, the GPS is a disaster for Local Government, so we were particularly interested to hear ...
Willis has pledged to go ahead with the debt-funded tax cuts, despite growing opposition from her own supporters worried about appearing fiscally irresponsible. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for ...
Open access notables A survey of interventions to actively conserve the frozen North, van Wijngaarden et al., Climatic Change:The frozen elements of the high North are thawing as the region warms much faster than the global mean. The dangers of sea level rise due to melting glacier ice, increased ...
Bryce Edwards writes – New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure. The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On ...
In 2015, then-Prime Minister John Key announced plans for a huge ocean sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands, banning fishing and mining from 15% of Aotearoa's EEZ. It was bold, it was ambitious, and it suggested that National might actually care about the environment. Except they fucked it up: Key failed ...
1. Who has just been given the accolade New Zealander of the Year?a. The Kokakob. The Cook Strait Ferryc. Fair God. Dr Jim Salinger 2. Which of these is an affront to decent society?a. Dame Edna Everageb. Mrs Doubtfire c. Dr. Frank-N-Furterd. Brian 3. Who is Penny Simmonds?a. The aspiring actress in Big ...
New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure.The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On the face of it, the court found ...
Buzz from the Beehive Waves of rain are set to lash much of the North Island during Easter Weekend as a low-pressure system forms east of New Zealand, according to a weather forecast published in the past day or so. Niwa was warning of a “moisture-laden” long weekend, with rain expected ...
Look around us…Nicola Willis’ promises of balancing the books, of cutting spending without reducing services, and of delivering game changing tax cuts are disappearing before her eyes.Everyday we see stories of violent crime ending in horrific injuries, or worse. The cost of living worsens, whereas the PM claimed renters would ...
TL;DR: My top six news of note on the morning of Thursday, March 28 include:The Government will have to borrow between $10 billion to $15 billion more than previously expected in order to make up for a slowing economy and to pay for $14.9 billion of tax cuts, according to ...
This story by Naveena Sadasivam and Kate Yoder was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The long-awaited jobs board for the American Climate Corps, promised early in the Biden administration, will open next month, according to details shared exclusively ...
Should landlords be able to deduct the interest on the loans they take out to bankroll their property speculation? The US Senate Budget Committee and Bloomberg News don’t think this is a good idea, for reasons set out below. Regardless, our coalition government has been burning through a ton of ...
Treasury’s first report on the economy since the change of government presents a damning indictment of Labour’s economic management. The problem for National is that it is so damning that logically, coupled with a rapidly slowing economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis should respond to it by postponing or even cancelling ...
Budget tensions are becoming evident within the Coalition Government. Winston Peters made numerous political points in his speech to the NZF annual conference. But the attack on his own government’s fiscal policies raised issues of substance. ‘Today in the Sunday Star Times, journalist and former advisor to the Labour ...
Buzz from the Beehive The media – sure enough – have been binging on Finance Minister Nicola Willis’ release of the Budget Policy Statement and a statement headed Government announces Budget priorities This assures us – or rather, this parrots the Luxon team mantra – that the Budget “will deliver ...
The Ides of March brought me COVID followed by a bereavement. No wonder they tell you to be careful of them.I’m home now and have resumed the interrupted recuperation. Very much looking forward to getting back to regular things. Meanwhile, some thoughts…OneThis new Prime Minister guy just keeps getting more dire. ...
News that the Chinese ATP 40 cyber-hacking unit penetrated parliamentary internet networks in 2021 has renewed concerns about the PRC’s malign intentions in Aotearoa. But is the hack that significant given the length of time that has passed since its … Continue reading → ...
When Parliament passed the Intelligence and security Act in 2017, they assured us all that it was full of safeguards. Any intrusive surveillance of New Zealanders would be subject to a "triple lock", requiring the approval of the Minister and (supposedly independent) Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, as well as post-facto ...
Eric Crampton writes – Richard Harman’s Politik newsletter provides a bit of the context that ought to have been showing up in other media reports on potential reductions in public service staffing. Media has been reporting on staffing cuts on the order of about 7%. Is that ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – It’s becoming increasingly apparent that many perceive free speech to have become the preserve of the politically right wing, the religiously conservative, the libertarian fringe, the anti-trans, the anti-Māori and…. well, just fill in with whatever groups or individuals you don’t like and don’t ...
Don Brash writes – As everybody who is not blind and deaf is aware, there is a huge political preoccupation with climate change at the moment, a widespread (though by no means unanimous) belief that global temperatures are rising mainly as a result of the greenhouse gases created ...
TL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy on Wednesday, March 27 include:Chris Bishop laid out his vision for filling Aotearoa-NZ’s $100 billion infrastructure deficit in a speech yesterday, emphasising user pays and private funding, but failed to say how to achieve bipartisanship on population, public borrowing and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson and former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins have been conveying how unhappy they are with the tax system. Last week in his valedictory speech, Robertson called for the introduction of a wealth or capital gains tax. And this week Hipkins ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Buzz from the Beehive China has loomed large in Beehive considerations over the past 24 hours, largely because of that country’s mischief-making in the cyber espionage department. Two media statements emerged on that subject hard on the heels of the PM baulking at questions put to him on RNZ’s Morning ...
Chris Trotter writes – WHY IS THE NATIONAL PARTY doing so much for landlords, property developers, trucking, and construction companies, and so little for everybody who isn’t already pretty well-off? It’s as if protecting landlords’ investments and building apartments and roads now constitute the whole of National’s ...
Bryce Edwards writes – When she was campaigning to be Minister of Finance last year, Nicola Willis pledged that she would resign from the job if she failed to deliver tax cuts in her first Budget. Now, it’s that pledge, along with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s ...
Robert MacCulloch writes – The Reserve Bank has doubled staff numbers in five years to 510, with personnel costs rising to $80 million in 2023 from $32 million in 2018 – up by a whopping 150%. I guess when you print $50 billion and flood markets with liquidity, ...
The furore. In case you didn’t notice there was a controversy in the weekend involving dolphins in a little town off the South Island. Don’t panic, they haven’t declared independence and resumed whaling, this was simply a sailing event.The problem began when racing was cancelled on the opening day of ...
For 20 years or more, the case for a meaningful capital tax gains has been mulled over and analysed to death, including by the tax working group chaired by Sir Michael Cullen. More than once, the International Monetary Fund has said a CGT would be a good idea for New ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: The Public Health Communications Centre (PHCC) call for urgent preventive action and a risk assessment survey of long covid in this briefing noteLocal scoop: NZ road deaths surpass OECD rates, so why is the govt reversing safety plans? ...
This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. This story is part of a collaboration with Grist and WABE to demystify the Georgia Public Service Commission, the small but powerful state-elected board that makes critical decisions about everything from raising ...
This is a guest post from Robert McLachlan Global warming is accelerating; 2023 was off the charts. We need to stop burning fossil fuels. In New Zealand, transport accounts for half of all fossil fuels burnt. In the Emissions Reduction Plan, transport emissions fall 41% by 2035. As the ...
Labour productivity has been receding rapidly over the past two years, reversing a post-lockdown rise. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy as at 6:26am on Tuesday, March 26 include:Workers have been treading water in output per hour worked for 12 years, ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 2 include:Today, Parliament resumes sitting at 2pm for the second week of a two-week session. Officials for SIS and GCSB report their annual reviews in public to the Intelligence and Security Select Committee from 5.10pm.Tomorrow, ...
Faced with a barrage of criticism over the promised tax cuts from usually supportive commentators, Finance Minister Nicola Willis yesterday reaffirmed her intention to include them in this year’s Budget. The Government is up against it over the cuts just about every way it turns. Commentators like Fran O’Sullivan, Matthew ...
Here’s my pick of today’s substack posts as of 6:26pm on Monday, March 25: writes via his substack that Market-rate housing will make your city cheaper writes via his substack about the problems talking to double-cab ute (truck) drivers about their vehicles. today about moments of radicalisation in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Just before Christmas, Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivered something that was pitched as a mini-budget and brayed about the decisive action being taken to repair the Government books and support income tax relief in Budget 2024. In a statement headed Fiscal repair job underway. she introduced ...
My sister Belinda asked Dad yesterday what one word would describe Mum best. He said: vivacious.If you only knew her from the photos on the slideshow we've made for today,you might wonder about that, because the camera tended to lie with Mum.If ever she saw a camera pointed at her, she ...
There are two major public consultations closing in the next week, Auckland Council’s Long Term Plan (LTP), and the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS). Closing dates and times: LTP closes Thursday 28 February, at 11.59pm – a minute to midnight! GPS closes Tuesday 2 April, at 12pm noon – note that’s ...
From Kiwiblog’s David Farrar – Bryce Wilkinson writes: Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson’s analysis reveals that since March 2009, New Zealand has spent $158 billion more overseas than it has earned, but its NIIP has only fallen by $32 billion.Statistics New Zealand shows that receipts from overseas reinsurers have ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
The Local Government, Transport and Auckland Minister hasthreatened councils with intervention if they don’t merge water assets to take them off balance sheet, just as the now-repealed Three Waters plan directed. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things of note this morning for Monday, March 25 include:Simeon ...
A listing of 36 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 17, 2024 thru Sat, March 23, 2024. Story of the week Thanks to John Mason having the stamina to sit down to watch "Climate - the Movie" ...
This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana – or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. It’s a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealand’s highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition?The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could deliver her promised income tax cuts. Appointed minister, she ...
Buzz from the Beehive Ministers of the Crown have drawn attention to one sector of the science sector which is unlikely to be subjected to heavy spending cuts, a state-funded broadcaster which is doing nicely, thank you, and a sporting event that had $5.4 million from the public purse puffed ...
Abbott’s Freestyle Libre sensors allow continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). The sensor is applied to the back of the patient’s arm, with a thin filament under the skin measuring glucose levels constantly. But it costs around $100 per sensor and must be replaced once every 14 days. Photo by BSIP/Universal Images ...
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “It is often said that behind every great man is a great woman”. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their “Ladies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxon”. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The cruelty of short-term memory loss is that each time you ask where she is, you get the fresh shock and grief of the news. That was Dad's day yesterday.Comfortingly, it seems to be less so today. Last night he looked crumpled, today he seems more settled. There's a card ...
Photo by Alvan Nee on UnsplashIt’s that new day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when and I co-host our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm. Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news ...
Buzz from the Beehive One minister is talking tough while a colleague – whose ministry had acted tough and drawn a barrage of flak – has shown an official softening. Some ministers are doing what Labour was good at, which is distributing public funds to causes regarded as worthy or ...
A ballot for 4 Member's Bills was held today, and the following bills were drawn: Insurance Contracts Bill (Duncan Webb) Income Tax (Clean Transport FBT Exclusion) Amendment Bill (Julie Anne Genter) Crimes (Increased Penalties for Slavery Offences) Amendment Bill (Greg Fleming) Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time – but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
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Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “It’s official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “we’re in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University It’s Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether you’re a boomer, or an ‘80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Senior Lecturer and General Dentist, School of Dentistry, The University of Queensland Casezy idea/Shutterstock How does toothpaste work? What did people use before toothpaste was invented? – Amelia, age 7, Meanjin (Brisbane) Thanks for your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Hallam, Associate professor, UNSW Sydney IM Imagery/Shutterstock Solar SunShot is well named. The Australian government announced today it would plough A$1 billion into bringing back solar manufacturing to Australia, boosting energy security, swapping coal and gas jobs for those ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems there’s one luxury most Australians won’t sacrifice – their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Education’s claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxon’s fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
Kiwis Against Seabed mining today slammed Australian owned would-be seabed miner Trans Tasman Resources (TTR) for abandoning its application to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to mine the seabed of the South Taranaki Bight. The company ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Associate Professor, School of Social Sciences, The University of Western Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Months after COVID vaccines were introduced in 2021, governments and private organisations mandated them for various groups. Health and aged care workers were among the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dzurak, Scientia Professor Andrew Dzurak, CEO and Founder of Diraq, UNSW Sydney Diraq For decades, the pursuit of quantum computing has struggled with the need for extremely low temperatures, mere fractions of a degree above absolute zero (0 Kelvin or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Essential poll, conducted March 20–24 from a sample of 1,150, gave the Coalition a 50–44 lead including undecided, a reversal ...
The Taxpayers’ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the People’s Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Nelson, Honorary Principal Fellow, The University of Melbourne A Byzantine depiction of the Eucharist in Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv.Jacek555/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA A nasty quarrel arose in the 11th century over what kind of bread should be used in holy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Hesp, Professor, Flinders University Patrick Hesp In some parts of Australia, coastal dunes are retreating from the ocean at an alarming rate, as waves carve up the beach and wind blows the sand inland. But coastal communities are largely ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Heemsbergen, Senior Lecturer, Digital, Political, Media, Deakin University With an impressive 60% of the US smartphone market, Apple is undeniably big, but not a clear monopoly. Yet, years of innovation by Apple have effectively given the company its own exclusive ...
Whether you’re facing layoffs or are just an emotional junior staffer, it’s always a good idea to scout out a good crying place before you need it. It’s an incredibly hard time for Wellington. Across the city, thousands of public servants are hearing tough news about redundancies and layoffs. Government ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Miller-Jones, Professor, Curtin University Nuclear explosions on a neutron star feed its jets. Danielle Futselaar and Nathalie Degenaar, Anton Pannekoek Institute, University of Amsterdam, CC BY-SA How fast can a neutron star drive powerful jets into space? The answer, it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daryl Adair, Associate Professor of Sport Management, University of Technology Sydney Earlier this week, independent MP Andrew Wilkie accused the AFL of conducting “off the books” illicit drug testing to identify players using substances of abuse, then inappropriately withdrawing them from matches ...
The Government’s announcement that it will scrap plans for a vast marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands is ‘shameful’ and will make it impossible for Aotearoa New Zealand to meet its international commitments, says the World Wide Fund for Nature ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland Shutterstock The federal government has bowed to pressure from the car industry, announcing it will relax proposed emissions rules for utes and vans and delay enforcement of the new standards ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suzanne Rutland, Professor Emerita, University of Sydney In his latest book, Jewish Life in Medieval Spain, Jonathan Ray focuses on the tumult of the 14th century in Spain – a time of the plague, civil strife and war between the two largest ...
While creating a slate of world-class shows, Whakaata Māori also developed a generation of world-class creatives. Television is an odd word. It mixes the Ancient Greek and Latin languages, and its most literal meaning is “far-off sight”. In the contemporary and living language of te reo Māori, “whakaata” as a ...
Yesterday the UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza. This significant step and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza prompted an urgent debate in the New Zealand Parliament. Leader ...
The Government’s decision to reduce access to continuous glucose monitors (CGM) not only threatens the lives of children with type 1 diabetes and increases the potential for ‘Dead in Bed’ syndrome, but also threatens the health of their parents an ...
Apples are available year-round, but the wide variety on offer involves intensive scientific research – and large-scale commercialisation. What’s beautiful, red, sweet and crunchy? Tony Martin’s favourite kind of apple: Sassy. The CEO of apple and pear breeding organisation Prevar, Martin’s fondness for Sassy represents professional success as well as ...
Family violence specialist service Shine is calling on employers to stop asking for proof of domestic violence in order for employees to access domestic violence leave. The call comes five years after the introduction of the Domestic Violence ...
The Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee is calling for public submissions on the Budget Policy Statement 2024. The Budget Policy Statement 2024 (BPS) sets out the Government's priorities for the 2024 Budget. It explains the approach ...
Brutal government spending cuts that will see the size of the Ministry for Pacific Peoples slashed by 40% will hit Pasifika communities hard, the PSA says. The Ministry has told staff that it is seeking voluntary redundancies, and to redeploy and reassign ...
I live with five people I mostly love, but our different ideas about generosity are starting to really irk me.Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,This is a bit of a random one but here goes. I’m 22 and work an OK job (OK meaning I get paid ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Maria Nicholas, Senior Lecturer in Language and Literacy Education, Deakin University Earlier this month, the New South Wales government announced it would roll out programs for gifted students in every public school in the state. This comes amid concerns gifted school ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Rudge, Law lecturer, University of Sydney Massachusetts General Hospital In a world first, we heard last week that US surgeons had transplanted a kidney from a gene-edited pig into a living human. News reports said the procedure was a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tombs, Howard Paterson Chair of Theology and Public Issues, University of Otago The 5th-century Maskell panel showing Jesus in a loincloth.British Museum, CC BY-NC-SA When Jesus is shown on the cross, he is almost always depicted wearing a loincloth around ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University Shutterstock When you think about a red object, you might picture a red carpet, or the massive ruby in the Queen’s crown. Indeed, Western monarchies and marketing from brands such ...
COMMENTARY:Jewish Voice for Peace The UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza on Monday — and for the first time since the beginning of the Israeli military’s genocide of Palestinians, the United States abstained rather than vetoing it. Security Council resolutions are legally binding, ...
Asia Pacific Report A New Zealand investigative journalist and author says the US spy system hosted by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) appears to be a controversial intelligence system used in global capture-kill operations. Writing a commentary for RNZ News today, Nicky Hager, author of Secret Power, a 1996 ...
While Nicola Willis wouldn’t give any details on its size, she said a package of tax cuts is definitely still coming in this year’s budget, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming the investigation into the Department of Internal Affairs after it was revealed that the Department’s Chief Executive personally reached out to expedite a DJs passport application. Taxpayers’ Union Campaigns ...
Finance minister Nicola Willis delivers her first budget statement, and unwittingly helps Joel MacManus save his relationship. Nicola Willis strode into the Beehive Theatrette. Around me, on the green foldout seats, were the country’s top business and political journalists. They were all here to see her announce the Budget Policy ...
Twenty years ago today, Māori Television launched after much controversy. Jamie Tahana looks back on its survival and impact across two decades. Chad Chambers stepped onto the stage, the brim of his cap casting a shadow across his face. His smile beamed as bright as his white freezing works gumboots, ...
Tauranga, Rotorua, Wellsford, Onehunga, Westhaven marina – Gavin Strawhan walks the meanish streets of New Zealand in his entertaining debut novel The Call, almost sure to roar into the number 1 position on the Nielsen bestseller chart, its front cover bearing a rave from somebody: “A really good and genuinely ...
On a Thursday in February, at Wellington’s Conservation House, the Conservation Authority, a statutory body advising the eponymous department and minister, Tama Potaka, opened its 195th meeting. Under consideration that afternoon was an agenda item written by Tim Bamford, chief advisor in the Department of Conservation’s biodiversity, heritage and visitors ...
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A lengthy response to the recently released draft Government policy statement on transport will soon be delivered from Auckland Council to Minister of Transport Simeon Brown. A submission raising concerns about funding distribution and the plan’s treatment of Auckland passed through the council’s transport committee on Wednesday, despite some councillors ...
The unidentified foreign intelligence operation discussed in a scathing report by New Zealand’s Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) last week appears to be a controversial United States intelligence system. The IGIS report said the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) decision to host a foreign system from 2012-2020 was “improper” ...
Historical materialism is a way of understanding how societies grow and change, and has been very influential amongst social scientists for a century and a half. Although the theory was invented by Karl Marx, it is nowadays used in modified forms by many non-Marxist anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, and sociologists studying Pacific societies, and has been the theme of famous books like Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel. But can historical materialism really make sense of the Pacific’s past and present, or do societies like Papua New Guinea and Tonga show the limitations of the theory? http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/can-historical-materialism-explain.html
Thanks for the link, great article. Now I’ve got another blog to add to the reading list.
As I understand it…if I look at where I am today, then I can look at yesterday and the day before to explain how I find myself where I am today. And it will appear inevitable – or deterministic – that I am exactly where I am today.
I could them extrapolate from that and predict where I’ll be tomorrow.
And it’s all nonsense that denies the existence of free will, while dangerously elevating notions of inevitability.
Put another way using a far more simple set of circumstances. If I drop a tumbler, I don’t know for certain whether it will break or not. If after I’ve dropped it and it’s smashed into pieces, I then analyse and ‘backtrack’ all the various broken pieces through time and space, I may can claim it was inevitable – given that I’ve somehow been able to record most of the physics involved in the breaking – that all the pieces would wind up exactly where they are now.
As a claim to knowledge goes, it’s a dangerous illusion. It’s merely a description of what has happened. The truthful, and somewhat banal claim would be that, given this is the situation, then this is the situation…there would be no claim of there being a deterministic past or inevitable future attached to it.
To relate it to human history and anthropology – when we’re looking at all of those yesterdays or other cultures, we’re inevitably looking through the very specific lens of today that we possess. That distorts and shapes our understandings or perceptions.
If you like your PoMoGeo, try David Harvey. He has gone through multiple emplaced examples of structural change. Also Mike Davis – his weird stuff on climate change and its determinisms already past is particularly fresh.
But if you want a real head-stretch, try Amy Allen’s new book that came out a couple of months ago called The End of Progress. She still has those big theoretical engines from Habermas, Honneth and Forst gearing their tractor engines for the haul (i.e. good hard Frankfurt School thinkers defending the idea of progress and of long waves of order and disorder), but dispenses with a progressive reading of history, while retaining the notion of progress as a political imperative. It’s getting to a core of social impulse beyond ‘can things improve’, to ‘must things improve’?
Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.
The many volunteers at Te Peua Marae shows the best of our country.
Paula Bennett shows us the worst of our country.
Paula Bennett declined to be interviewed. She has never accepted an interview yet from Checkpoint on the issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHCLIYob43c
Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.
Price rises make housing unaffordable for many New Zealanders.
‘Nine of the top ten areas of growth are in Auckland – hardly surprising judging from valuation service QV data which said average Auckland house prices in March were nearly 17 per cent higher than a year ago.
With a price increase of 33.88 per cent Manurewa had the largest growth in the year leading up to June 2016, followed by Pukekohe and Papakura.’
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/80880636/aucklands-upandcoming-suburbs
A Friday news dump that shouldn’t be forgotten about by the start of next week:
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/386473/partnership-rebuild-suggested
I’ve quoted quite enough of the article as it is, but do read the original. The Blair quote in the final paragraph of Goodwin’s piece is a truly impenetrable piece of bureaucratic obfuscation. I just re-watched Brazil the other night and the similarity with the Ministry of Information is uncanny.
Mike Williams- Voice from the Left?
[You posted the same comment yesterday, Adrian and got a few thoughtful responses. However, cut, paste and repeat is not a formula that is welcome here. Original comments are the go at TS, so either develop the argument or move on. TRP]
“I agree with Matthew…….”
Yes that is pretty much what Mike Williams ends up doing most weeks.
In fact the other week K Ryan pretty much ended up debating Hooton and Williams, it was painful to listen to.
RNZ have to get rid of him ASAP, people should email Nine to Noon on RNZ and tell them Williams doesn’t cut it.
Yes well I thought that it is such an important issue to have a decent voice on the Left on Monday mornings RNZ show, and not Mike Williams insipid lackluster position, that you might well allow it to have another go.
As ‘The voice from the Right and the Left’ on RNZ is the only main stream media airing of this type of discourse left, I thought it vital we have someone who actually holds our views, and not Williams who actually endorses English’s social/health spending principles, endorses Serco etc.
Maybe you could run an actual story on this topic, and really get the conversation going?
There’d be no problem if RNZ called it “From the far right and from the extreme far right”. Hang on, that mightn’t work, either, because Williams would still “agree with Matthew”. Fuck, this is a tough one.
Yeh, maybe you should suggest it to them, it’s quite catchy.
An apt description of Hooton, too, given he seemed to approve of Nicky Hager getting chopped up, literally that is.
The only good thing about having Williams on, is that he is so useless, that he lets Hooton have plenty of time for some real raves, and generally the more Hooton talks, the crazier he starts to sound.
“Britain’s cutting edge, £1 billion warships are breaking down in the Persian Gulf because their engines malfunction in the heat.
Contractors claim the Ministry of Defence did not tell them the 8,000-tonne, Type 45 Destroyer would spend significant amounts of time in warm water, the Daily Mail reported.
The engines of the six vessels have stalled in the middle of the ocean, leaving crews plunged into darkness for hours at a time.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/british-warships-breaking-down-because-the-water-is-too-warm-2016-6?r=US&IR=T&IR=T
It’s about making a profit. Making things that don’t work properly and often collecting maintenance contracts or additional work on the way.
But why bother to make something work especially in the defence industry, once you have the sale and the money, you don’t seem to have to worry!
These vessels aren’t going to like climate change then are they.
Pretty big fuck up on both counts. This is why I don’t believe tech is coming to save us. It’s not just tech and how it works theoretically, it’s tech and how it operates in the real world including human systems like defense contracts.
And that’s why I don’t take anything you say on tech seriously – you obviously haven’t got a clue as to what you’re talking about.
Well made argument there Draco 🙄
There’s little to no point in arguing with you about it as you’ll hold on to your wrong beliefs rather take on the fact that this isn’t a case of tech failing but of purposeful under-engineering.
Dude, go reread my comment. I already know that it wasn’t a tech fail, that it was a human fail. That was my point.
Which just reinforces that you have no idea what my beliefs are, you haven’t been paying attention, and instead have been projecting your own shit onto my comments like you did just now.
I’m not projecting anything onto you. Just responding to your hatred of technology.
As opposed to your reverence of it?
It just is. No reverence, no holding it up as a saviour. Just acceptance that it’s a tool that we can use to our benefit.
“I’m not projecting anything onto you. Just responding to your hatred of technology.”
Lol, you just did it again. Go on then, cite 3 examples that tell you I hate technology.
Ok
http://thestandard.org.nz/vaccines-do-cause-autism-shock/#comment-1182844
http://thestandard.org.nz/vaccines-do-cause-autism-shock/#comment-1183141
http://thestandard.org.nz/vaccines-do-cause-autism-shock/#comment-1183135
http://thestandard.org.nz/vaccines-do-cause-autism-shock/#comment-1182849
http://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-10062016/#comment-1186950
Just taking the first link only (because if you can’t be bothered specifying what you actually mean why should I bother opening the others?).
Incog was asking why medical authorities shouldn’t be trusted (in response to something CV had said). This was in the context of a thread about vaccination.
I gave the following explanation, which is a generalisation of why so many people don’t trust science and that there are valid reasons for that distrust. And that for many people who choose not to vaccinate it’s based on experience. I was describing a social phenomena. How is that me hating technology?
Trust has to be earned. While medical science has done many good things it has also done a lot of damage and isn’t in great shape at the moment in terms of trustworthiness. This is a very large part of the culture of people who choose to not vaccinate. It’s not an ignorant rebellion as some like to frame it, it’s based on real experience of people having their health and lives damaged. Until those people can be part of the conversation and have their concerns worked on there will always be the mistrust and the divide.
draco those cites are not cites for what you said they were cites for and I have followed your links. Obviously if they are your evidence then it is clear that you cannot back up your assertion that weka hates technology. Withdraw and an apology would be in order I think.
They all come across to me as a hatred of science/technology.
Fair enough and I’m sure you’d agree that others may interpret them differently.
Hatred is a very strong word – could be a possible projection.
“They all come across to me as a hatred of science/technology.”
Yes, that is what I mean by projection. If you can’t demonstrate how my comments are tech-hatred then it is something going on in your own self that is making you think I hate tech.
Not a case of tech failing?
Of course it is a case of tech failing. Technology does not exist independently of humans.
Chimps with twigs, sea otters with rocks.
Technology, right there.
Yes you are correct. A goat track across the Khyber Pass is technology, technically speaking.
So I will rephrase to industrial technology.
In the spirit of Matariki and all that offers, I’d like to present the ko. Fashioned from wood and requiring no smelting, importing or energy other than muscular, the ko represents the next step in cultivation technology. The ko is available to anyone with access to a sapling. Well cared for, the ko can last a lifetime and never needs upgrading as it is perfect for the job it does. If your ko breaks from careless use, a new one can be readily made. Manufacture of the ko produces no greenhouse gases, aside from the breath of the ko maker who would be breathing any way, nor is any produced by its destruction. In fact, a redundant ko continues to act as a carbon sink, if placed under the soil. There is no “mark II” ko – the original represents the tool’s ultimate form. That’s appropriate technology for you – difficult to fault and elegant in its simplicity. Mind you, even the ko can be considered redundant when compared with the best cultivator of them all, the daikon seed. But that’s a story for the Japanese New Year.
Visuals,
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/etexts/Gov10_10Rail/Gov10_10Rail021a.jpg
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/etexts/CowYest/CowYest_185a.jpg
This is interesting,
Then approached the owner of the field, and he showed the digging-party where he wished them to work. The diggers gathered in one corner of the field, and worked diagonally across the planting area. They had a peculiar way of advancing, ko-ing as they went. The ground had previously been prepared by being cleared of all grass and weeds and other growth, and was perfectly clean and bare for the diggers. The Taiporohenui soil did not require much digging, for it was very soft and rich, easily worked.
The ko-men worked across from the corner, gradually extending their front as the field opened out; and all kept time as they worked, moving the handles of the ko to the right and left alternately, as they made the holes for the reception of the seed kumara. They kept time with a choric song while they worked; all the bare backs moved as one man to the rhythm of the ancient chant, the feathers and white aurei adornments of the ko-heads dancing in the sun.
“Ko-ing”
You don’t read that word every day.
Great for those volcanic soils, I imagine, but not so flash in the clay where gypsum is the technology of choice.
JMG has an article which touches on the points you make above and in it there are some real world examples and links.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/they-died-of-progress.html
cheers marty.
JMG should probably try reading the entire article that he references:
What the article says:
Of course, even a US super-carrier can be knocked out of the fight by a single hostile cruise missile. That’s what the cruise missile’s designed to do. Our frigates, which are a similar size to the LCS, would also be knocked out of the fight by a single cruise missile strike.
The $37b is the price for all 24 ships.
And the problem isn’t the tech. It’s the profit drive and the corruption that comes with it. JMG actually makes that point but he takes awhile to get around to it and actually seems to miss it himself.
Military procurement should start in the government and end in the government.
I’m not sure you understand the points he was making to be honest.
Well, if that’s so why don’t you explain the point you think he was making?
“All the most egregious examples of military-procurement failure in recent years have had something in common: they were supposed to be revolutionary new breakthroughs using exciting new technology, and so on drearily through the most overused rhetoric of our age. The cascading failures of the F-35 can be traced straight to that sort of thinking; its designers apparently believed with all their hearts that every innovation must be an improvement, and so came up with a plane that fails in the most innovative ways you care to imagine. The LCS, the SBX, the ECCS, the pixellated camo uniforms, all fell victim to the same trap—their designers were so busy making them revolutionary that they forgot to make them work.”
I’ll highlight the really relevant sentence
“apparently believed with all their hearts that every innovation must be an improvement” – that is the cult of progress… and
“progress has become the enemy of prosperity”
and
“progress, like everything else in the real world, is subject to the law of diminishing returns”
I believe you are still a believer in the role of progress – 🙂
Two points:
1. Its designers (important words that you missed out) probably weren’t the ones making all the grandiose claims. The people selling the concept were
2. There really isn’t a whole lot of new technology in the F35. Most of it goes back to the 1950/60s. It really is just simple incremental adjustments over time.
Which is simply a load of bollocks. It’s capitalism that is the enemy of prosperity and always has been throughout recorded history. JMG doesn’t realise that and, apparently, neither do you. JMG is a dedicated capitalist so it’s not surprising that he doesn’t see the damage that capitalism does.
True, even improved living standards across all of society (my preferred measure of progress) meet such an end but look at how people react to me saying that there should be a maximum income of $100k/year per person and that I think that that may even be far too much.
But that’s not what JMG or you are addressing there. Both of you are addressing technological innovation and solely referring to that as ‘progress’.
How do you see progress without technology? seems to me too many can’t disengage those concepts.
Where is your proof that jmg is a dedicated capitalist – put up or shut up. I’d imagine you are much more entangled in that system and thus supporting it than he is.
o_0
How can someone as smart as you be as stupid as you?
How much of the F-35 is repairable in a 1960’s equipped hangar? How much of the F-35 is repairable using 1960’s materials and parts?
If you put an airforce pilot from 1960 into the cockpit of the F-35, how far would he be able to fly it?
Is it true that a modern Oak Ridge supercomputer is basically the same as an abacus, with a series of incremental improvements thrown in over time?
I’m amazed that they’re even trying that excuse. It’s obviously a case of purposeful under engineering to save costs rather than provide the product as requested.
A warship obviously needs to operate wherever it’s sent.
Bit premature there, Draco – the devil is in as requested. If there weren’t requirements to operate reliably in environmental extremes, then the lowest tender is the one that used lower-rated heat exchangers to cool the engines.
Produce to spec, not what you think they need.
If there isn’t a clause that says, effectively, operate in all theatres then I will be highly surprised. To put it another way, I’d be even more surprised if the spec said operate only in waters around Gt Britain.
So, no, I don’t think that it’s premature. I’m pretty sure that the company that built them a) understood that they were making them less effective b) that they were doing so against generally understood principle and c) that they were doing so to increase profits.
Well, that’s the crux of the dispute between MoD and Rolls Royce: RR say they designed to spec (probably a temperature bracket that’s borderline Gulf/tropical).
If the specifications were average gulf temperatures, for example, they could both be correct if the engines failed on above-average days.
But that will be for negotiations and the courts to decide.
It is difficult for an English firm operating in the gelid wastelands of Cameron’s decaying imperial ruin to imagine sustained external temperatures of 45 degrees for a ship. They probably used an optimistic 25 degrees, with a healthy margin for error.
Rolls Royce engines are british designed and made and they are fine all around the world, at all altitudes.
But apparently not all temperatures at sea level.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11654367
The first few paragraphs are typical trevett rubbish. But she makes some good points further down .
Here’s hoping that Labour’s cooperative politics can extend to the Mp and Mana too.
The Maori Party deserve to be binned for their choice to suck up to National and mana are all ready binned, due to their choice to suck up to KDC. The future is unwritten, as a wise man once said, but I don’t see either of those parties making it back next election. it’s certainly not the LP’s role to resuscitate them.
Yep Labour can’t afford to worry about any other team, not with their very survival at stake and so much to do within the party and the electorate. The activist left is trucking along well so Labour can stick with trying to entice key supporters over. If Labour can do a little better than their fail last time then maybe the can help the left make a difference – time will tell.
And Labour deserve to be binned for all their fuck ups over the years, including the recent ones, which leaves us with the Greens as the only useful and meaningful left wing party. So how about we get everyone to vote for them then? /sarc
Your macho politics are exactly why we have had 3 terms of NACT. MMP is about broadening representation not consolidating it in the hands of the few. It would be a real shame and probably a tragedy if too many Labourites believe that they have to deal with the Greens from pragmatics but still secretly want to be the top dog and have all the power for themselves.
Sharing power makes for better society.
just remember weka the true attitude on show that Labour has towards potential coalition partners.
Weka, sharing is where it’s at and Labour have shown they are capable of doing that in Government. 3 elections in a row, Helen Clark shared power with 3 different combinations of partners. The reality is that Labour know they have to share power under MMP. The current arrangement with the Greens is a concrete affirmation of that fact.
Sharing is not macho politics. It’s weird that you would think that it was.
The group with the most power don’t get to define what power sharing is. By definition it has to be defined by the people who are denied access to power. Otherwise it’s just the powerholders holding power.
“Sharing is not macho politics. It’s weird that you would think that it was.”
I didn’t say was. Please don’t manipulate my words to suit your own argument.
Do the people who don’t have power understand what the first rule of power is?
I would suggest obviously not, because otherwise they would have the power.
Not sure what you mean there CV. Lots of different kinds of power.
I’m referring to the kind you were talking about when you referred to the group “with the most power”.
And also the kind of power you were talking about when you said that others are being “denied” that power.
hmm, ok I understand what you are getting at now, but not this bit,
“Do the people who don’t have power understand what the first rule of power is?”
What’s the first rule of power?
Power is never freely given, it has to be taken.
So you think that people that have power taken from them don’t understand the first rule of power?
? your comment is a non sequitor to my comment
Power is not taken from another party, it’s “taken”, as in “assumed”. If you’d like some, take some. Those who haven’t got any, haven’t taken any.
Yet 🙂
Robert Guyton 😀 😀 😀
Actually, under MMP, the largest party has more power in negotiations, as you’d expect. Generally MMP coalitions reflect the votes received with the largest party getting the largest share. That’s an arrangement the Greens seem happy with.
Macho politics was your phrase, weka. It turns out you used it poorly.
Thanks for proving my point trp. You believe the person with the biggest stick rules. That’s macho politics.
Sharing power is much more than just the biggest dude deciding what they want on their terms. MMP historically in NZ has been about powermongering, including by Labour in the past. It doesn’t have to be that way.
(I didn’t use the phrase poorly, you tried to redefine what sharing is. Just be honest about it).
Hey gorgeous!
The biggest stick holder does rule. Might is right. Doesn’t mean you can’t have power though. You have to take what you need.
The ‘best man’ rules.
“The biggest stick holder does rule.”
Doesn’t have to though. There is no technical reason that prevents Labour from sharing power.
Arthur decided to defeat the Might is Right tyrants of the day, by assembling a gang of armed men, the Knights of the Round Table … oh, hang on …
Truckies seem to have a lot.
Arthur was still operating within a domination paradigm. Probably didn’t have a lot of choice. Labour do though. Most of us do now.
Hi weka,
I don’t disagree with your comments but you and others here seem to view (political) power as some kind of finite entity that can be shared like (as in: cutting up) a cake. I know this is the most common perception.
However, I’d like to offer a different (counter?) view that also leads, almost inevitably, to a different framing.
I see power more as an almost limitless resource rather.
When (political) parties “share” power in reality they combine forces, e.g. seats, people, knowledge & skills, values & opinions, etc., a joining of qualities and strengths, from which increased power is possible. In other words, it is more an additive action than a fractional one.
An MOU is also such an action, which may or may not lead to increased power. In fact, the Opposition also has considerable political power although not as much as the Government.
I’ve cut short this comment, but not because of the AB game starting in a few minutes …
“In other words, it is more an additive action than a fractional one.”
Actually that’s much close to my own ideas and I like how you have phrased that. The fractional aspect is just the MMP MP split. But the power is exactly those things you talk about, people, knowledge/skills, diversity of values and ethics, opinions etc. and the powersharing comes from intention, willingness, self-awareness etc. I would add that relationships are the key to increasing diversity and thus making it both more stable/resilient and more productive/potent. Which is why it is such a shame that MMP has been driven by macho politics for so long, it’s obvious in the relationships that nothing meaningful has been built long term (and this is reflected in our current situation re CC).
I also agree that MoU is part of that and that it has its own value irrespective of how much or little MP power it engenders. I love that you have brought all this up, because to me this is the thing that is bringing much relief to so many with the MoU, even if we’re not naming it. It’s the fact that Labour and the Greens working together gives them another kind of power beyond the mere machinations at the level of macho politics and who has the most sticks/MPs. Which is why I hope that Labour will do the right thing by the Mp.
Suggest you read Michael basset in the nbr today TRP, you may also after this have a similar opinion of labour future to that of mana and Maori party in regard to labour failing to learn the lessons of their own history with respect to thier lurch to the left
Labour started solidly left. Hijacked by Rogernomes, it ‘lurched’ to the right. Basset was among those ghastly Rogernomes.
I am waiting for Labour to gracefully glide back to the original leftist glory.
Red Delusion – you are an amusing diversionist who uses tired old clichés to justify the indefensible.
RD Nobody would bother reading anything by Basset, petulant and spiteful since Lange told him to p*ss off.
As trip says manas gone and I can’t see them coming back.
Its up to the Maori party to win their seats ,they made their own bed , but it is an option for Labour/Green /Maori . I’d much prefer that to any government with the dinosaur nzf party.
While I understand the Maori parties policy of always trying to be in the tent, being in the tent with the nats has cost them .
I have no idea what state the party is in, but I can’t see any good reason why Harawira can’t stand in Te Tai Tokerau again.
yes, it’s up the the Mp to win their seats, but if Labour go hard after them, what chance of having the kind of cooperation between L and the Mp that engenders a stable, potent left wing govt?
I guess there is a difference in “going hard” and making sure that Maori have the option of coming back to labour . I would say standing Tamiti Coffee was leaving the door open for mp win last election.
I think I took from the original link the idea that Labour might decide to go hard after all the Māori seats again and thus bring down the Mp. Which would be stupid IMO because it doesn’t get them any more MPs (not sure what happens with the overhang from the Mp), and if it doesn’t work they’ve made another enemy. I don’t think they, or the left, can afford that even if I thought it was a valid strategy. Which I don’t. We should be looking at Mp policy and whether they can support a LW govt.
Even flow baby, if it fits, feels right, it is mean’t to be.
I love a happy ending, or should I say – a beautiful beginning.
ooh, a Saturday spambot. The AI convo is further down the page if you are interested.
[Threw it into perm bot ban land ;-)] – Bill
I prefer to say, Mana have been sin binned from the process because the status quoians didn’t like the rough play in opposing the system itself. That which cannot be controlled must be eliminated.
Funny though all the Mana Movement people I know are still out there, as before, fighting for equality and dignity and an end to unnecessary suffering. Kia kaha to them!
+1 that. I think too many people miss the ‘movement’ bit, and as with perceptions of the Greens, they don’t recognise that politics are being done differently.
Manas the only party that had a chance of awakening a reasonable proportion of the missing million , so i hope they make a comeback , I just think that those newbies they got voting last election are unlikely to get exited again after the last dissapiontment .
What the media aren’t doing.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/36293-the-mainstream-media-s-climate-malpractice
Major flooding events in just the last two Weeks
https://www.facebook.com/133975496644625/photos/a.144234262285415.22345.133975496644625/1101738993201599/?type=3&theater
They missed one.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-09/mounting-tasmanian-damage-bill-feared-as-floodwaters-subside/7494504
The questions being asked why did the states hydro company go ahead with cloud seeding.
https://www.rt.com/news/346127-tasmania-flooding-cloud-seeding/
“We are stupid and rather venal bastards who, for personal gain, have worked to make you complicit in the willful destruction of everything our civilisation stands on. Look!”
That would be the underlying gist of the headlines that we’ll never see.
Sadly it is basic human nature that is the problem and only a few realise it has to be controlled if we are to progress. The “I’m [relatively] ok .. f… you mate” attitude to be found in almost everybody left or right thinking.
Nah. There are many facets to ‘basic human nature’. It’s up to us what facets we encourage. Our current socio/economic/political set ups don’t exactly encourage the best in us. We really do get ahead at present if we’re willing to rub the fucking ground.
Easy enough to open our eyes and walk away.
Has Labour gotten around to opposing offshore drilling yet? If not, will Republicans showing more sense than that finally shame them into it?
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/06/10/3786902/seismic-testing-opposition-gets-bipartisan/
Indeed.
Why is Labour still in support of deep sea oil drilling?
There are no votes in it.
There are no jobs in it.
And they could use Winnie’s continued support for deep sea oil drilling in Northland to beat him around the head with, to get him to separate off from the, drill it, mine it, frack it, burn it, Nact coalition of climate vandals.
Which would be essential if Labour are to ever head a majority coalition government.
John Key ought to have a plant named after him. A sewerage treatment plant.
Or maybe Raflesia Jonsky an extravagant parasite that smells rotten and attracts flies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00hm598
how about amnesiac forget-me lots
It looks like scary times are ahead of us. It seems robots are learning how to make decisions on their own and it has been recommended that all robots in the future, whatever their jobs are, are fitted with a kill switch. Who would have thought that science fiction writers would be bringing it all to life with robots now being able to out wit their creators. Also, if killer switches are to be made they have to be kept isolated from the robot so he can’t have fore knowledge of what it is meant for.
Big business may see the irony of all this with culling of staff and using robots on killing chains and automotive factories. Fun times ahead.
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/science/features/press-the-big-red-button-computer-experts-want-kill-switch-to-stop-robots-from-going-rogue-847619
Hard to use a kill switch on a robot if it has charged it’s external metal frame with 1,000V.
Also if these robots are networked, one local AI learning what the kill switch does can tell all other AI around the world within a second.
Fans of Battlestar Galactica amongst others know where all of this is going.
Unqualified multi-millionaire Clinton Foundation donor given position on State Department nuclear weapons advisory board
Hi Mr Sanders still want the job.
Yours the democrat party
Are the Green Party in denial about climate change?
In my comment here, on the Green Party co-leader James Shaw’s keynote speech to the Green Party conference, I included my transcription of this paragraph.
Which was commented on by greywarshark, and Robert Guyton here and here, remarking that this comment by the Green Party leader seemed to be out of touch with the reality.
The tenor of Grey’s and Robert’s criticism was summed up in the concluding comment by weka.
Which in my opinion is an accurate summation of the action that is called for.
1/ From mentioning a vision in which sea levels do not rise. Does the Green Leader go on to promote or suggest any course of acton that may possibly “mitigate the worst of CC”?
2/ Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?
3/ Does the Green Party leadership outline a course of action in which future generations will “be able to respond to the changes in their environment”?
4/ Is the Green Party calling on us to do “everything we can”, or that we “chose to”, to avert the worst of this disaster?
My conclusion given here, is that the answer to all four questions is no. (Well not at their conference anyway).
Robert Guyton concludes his comment on this portion of James Shaw’s speech with this comment;
I would like to ask Robert, now that he has had a chance to have a closer look at James speech, and possibly Meteria Turei’s as well, that now might might be a good time to give us your report back.
Robert in your opinion, does the Green Party fulfil any of the 4 points raised by weka?
Robert in your opinion is the Green Party in denial about climate change?
It’s worse with the Greens – they know better than most about the severity of climate change, but have decided to tone all of that down in public in order to chase power.
Colonial Viper – it would be rude of me to re-title you, Colonial Griper, so I’ll resist the temptation, but Ad is correct in what he says to you. Mind you, I’m all ears and they are pricked in anticipation of your suggested alternative to voting Green, with “potential to address climate change” as the deciding factor. I would like you to explain how ‘toning it down in public’ is a reason not to vote for them, if that’s in fact what you’ve decided, and whether you believe that a political party is the best vehicle for broadcasting the climate situation and responses to it? Personally, I don’t.
Cheers.
Vote for whoever you like, I don’t care, I didn’t say not to vote for them did I?
I just said that they were toning down the truth that they know inside, in a vain attempt to reach for power and respectability from the status quo.
Colonial Viper.
You don’t care who I vote for? Hmmm…I thought you might be interested in linking readers opinions with their voting choices. I know I like to do that as it provides insight. No matter.
You said, quite correctly, that “they” are toning down the truth that they know inside”, but went on to give your opinion about why they have done that. Your view seems jaded; you use words like “vain attempt” (do you think they will fail?) and “power and respectability” (you’ve spoken to these MPs? They say they are seeking “power and respectability”?). I think you assume too, too much. Also, you sound dismissive and superior, somehow. Do you despise the Green MPs? I know these questions/challenges are not going to endear me to you, and I suspect we hold very similar views about things, it’s just that I’m feeling feisty today, following an evening of dosie-doeing at a local barn dance. The Waves of Tory does that to ya.
Seriously, vote for whoever you want, I’m not interested in who you vote for, it’s totally your call.
“I just said that they were toning down the truth that they know inside, in a vain attempt to reach for power and respectability from the status quo.”
That’s one way to look at it. Another way is that all the people on the climate change bandwagon now, who didn’t vote for the GP all those years when they were being radical, are hypocrites for criticising the Greens now for being pragmatic because it’s our only hope.
Weka – well put. This reaction is not unexpected and I imagine the Green MPs have considered long and hard, how to manage the phenomenon you describe. Kindly, would be my bet. I don’t think we’ll see the Greens saying, f-you guys, I’m going home.
True. Which is why I find CV’s perspective that the Greens are just another bunch of powermongers says more about him than anything. It is sad though, because it comes across as yet another unnecessary fight on the left when we are running out of time.
In the lead up to the election the attackers of the greens and labour should be ignored.
If the get elected ( the labour/greens) , then is the time to publicly dismantle their actions and debate their failings. in my most humble opinion
very good b, and thanks for the reminder. I’ll call people out when they mislead, but ignoring the rest is probably a good strategy.
An excellent strategy.
Meh, your rationale is that the Greens are justified in watering down their positions because they need more votes. That’s chasing power at the expense of their principles, clear and simple.
I’ve seen you use this sad excuse a few times now.
That is, because old timers didn’t vote for the Values Party in the 70s, the successor Green Party is now (somehow) justified 40 years later in going soft around the middle and chasing the establishment, pretend and extend vote.
BTW the Greens aren’t any kind of “hope”, other than perhaps providing a slightly better version of pretend and extend which might give us an extra decade of relative niceness compared to more right wing parties.
Lol, nice side step but as you know I was referring up you.
Geeezus what are you talking about, I couldn’t vote in the 1970s
Play whatever game you want CV, it’s pretty clear what I’m talking about. If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time? Rhetorical question.
it’s not the specific policies of the 1970s Values Party, its the fact that back then they stood tall and uncompromising in what they believed in despite the ridicule of most of the rest of the nation.
That stands in stark contrast to the modern Greens.
” If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time?”
Uh what? I was not in Labour at that time.
“it’s not the specific policies of the 1970s Values Party, its the fact that back then they stood tall and uncompromising in what they believed in despite the ridicule of most of the rest of the nation.”
I can certainly see why you personally would value that so highly. And fair enough. That doesn’t mean what they’ve done since is wrong. It’s easily arguable that what they have achieved in the intervening decades, including getting climate change on the agenda, is a result of them deciding not to stay on the fringe but to work within the mainstream. There’s nothing wrong with working in the mainstream, in fact we should be greatful to the people who can and will do that because it comes at a significant personal costs. We need good people there as much as we need the radicals on the fringe.
Which takes me back to my original point. My understanding is that you have become aware of peak oil and cc in more recent years (5 or 6?), and have have formed your ideas about them in that time. But prior to that time, all the time the Greens (not Values) were in parliament and lefties like you wouldn’t vote for them, you were diminishing our chances of having a more radical Green voice in parliament. Because they knew what was coming before we did, and that lack of support then is why we have the GP we do today. If they wanted to have parliamentary power they needed votes. NZ fucked that up big time. To then turn around and criticise them for not being radical enough now is hypocrisy, doubly so because you still don’t support or vote for the only party in parliament that is leading the way on cc.
” If you truly believe that the only useful politics the Greens ever had was in the 70s, what were you doing in the Labour party all that time?”
Uh what? I was not in Labour at that time.
I’m not talking about the 70s. Which I’m pretty sure you know.
Colonial Viper – a political party, Green or otherwise, is just a piece in the game that is ‘the future’, as I’m sure you know. I expect also that you are ‘playing’ with the other pieces available to you; friends and family, networks and community, local government and NLGO’s like Transition Towns or whatever has sprung up in your area – a widely-cast net catches the most fish. A political party has a highly restrictive zone to operate in – if the don’t play well, they have little or no influence at all. You don’t trust the Green Party MPs, staff and particularly their strategists, to play their hand to the best advantage of us all, which is how I believe the operate, and denigrate them accordingly. I’m not certain why you believe you have the inside running on the Green Party’s strategy and motivations, but recognise that you believe you are ‘lifting the ‘team’ higher; how, I’ve not yet fathomed, but will pay attention till I do – perhaps you could help with a brief description of what your ‘play’ is – I’m am interested to know. I make my judgement of the Greens based on what I’ve experienced personally with it and the people who have driven it over the past decades; weighing their other actions and positions, particularly where their work intersects with my own in the field of ecology. I’ve found that the depth of understanding exhibited by Green MPs in particular, is strikingly in advance of that of other politicians, including around climate change, and have never seen signs of them carelessly casting that position aside for the sake of votes – strategic retreats, yes, but no ‘selling out’ where it really counts – at the philosophical and ethical base. It may be that the Greens should sound the trumpets of war over the issue, but I’m willing to think that they’ve thought long and hard about how to bring the most relief to the illness climate change represents.
I’m happy to vote for nice people but I’m not going to pretend that they are going to do a thing to change the world
Ah, and that’s where you and I have common ground, pretty much. I don’t believe they’ll do nothing – I think they’ll do all they can and that’s all we can hope for from any player.
nope need more, much more, or its all over within 25 years.
Cv article in nbr today debunking sea levels rising by anything near what models predict. the gist been the models themselves are flawed vs empirical data. If you have access be interested on your view as wil get a response without abuse.These conflicting scientific views does make getting to a conclusion on climate change difficult,
I’m taking it you’re going to be first in line to buy on the Sydney beachfront.
Where you really will have the Infinity Pool. On the beach.
Red Delusion:
The ice over Greenland and over Antarctica is in places between 3km and 4km deep. That’s a lot of water.
An iceless, warm water Earth will see sea levels rise between 70m and 100m.
Losing the Greenland ice sheet alone will raise sea levels by 5m or more. Dunedin and Christchurch are over as habitable cities in such a scenario.
We have currently seen only about 1/2 of the temp increase due to today’s level of CO2 emissions thanks to the thermal inertia of the system. (Think about a pot of water on the electric stove – the stove top gets hot but the water in the pot stays cool, for a while at least. You measure the temperature of the water but nothing much seems to happen. You can turn off the stove top, but the temperature of the water will keep going up due to the delay).
Taking current warming experienced as being about 1.1 deg C, Global Dimming temporarily hiding another 1 deg C to 1.5 deg C, and roughly another 1.1 deg C of warming to occur regardless of what we do today, I can comfortably say that we are going to experience no less than about 3.2 deg C warming in total.
That’s the 21st century min temp increase.
And that means most of the Greenland ice, amongst others, will destabilise and melt – over time.
So whether it is this century or next century, we will see multi-metre sea level rise.
My best bet is 10m sea level rise by 2100, and 5 deg C to 10 deg C increase. We already have the first 3 to 3.5 deg C of that done and in the bag.
thanks Cv while you logic makes sense ( albeit level of sea rise is a value judgement)
These guys Willem de Lange, MSc DPhil, is a senior lecturer at the University of Waikato. Bryan Leyland MSc, FIEE(retired), FIMechE, FIPENZ argue the models predicting temperature rises are flawed, They argue that the Royal Society of New Zealand’s recent study on sea level rise claims that, in the next 100 years, sea levels will surely rise by 0.3m and 1m is possible ( let alone your 10m) is flawed on the basis claim does not stand up to close examination.
First, the rise in sea level and New Zealand coast has been about 0.14m over the past 100 years, with no sign of a recent increase in the rate.
They argue is no solid evidence to indicate this steady rate will increase rapidly in the future. They believe that the Royal Society’s claims are based on flawed climate models that predicted, by now, temperatures would be 0.5° higher than they really are and increasing faster and faster.They further point out there is no solid evidence to indicate this steady rate will increase rapidly in the future.
The essence of thier article is when dubious data were fed into Royal Society sea level models, they predicted rapidly increasing sea level rise.
They further argue indirectly by quoting Russian climate model that assumes CO2 makes only a small contribution to global warming that these models more matches recent temperatures and Perhaps these model it is right.
I guess it comes down to the collective view of science which argues in favour of climate change, I also note your reasoning on delay in system and then the affects become exponential, but I do suggest at this point the level of change, how much is man made and wether we can or the cost of doing anything about it is still open for debate
Hansen is quite clear that paleoclimatology, i.e. looking at climate records going back millions of years, has provided a fair degree of certainty.
Bottom line is that the models that have been used by the IPCC and others are almost definitely wrong, but those guys you quote think that they are wrong one way, and Hansen and others think they are wrong the other way.
I don’t know how old you are or where you live, but I’ve made sure that I am living in a place which will stay high and dry for over 50 years even within a worst case sea level rise scenario.
Just remember, an ice free world indicates a 70-100m sea level rise, and this has happened before in the natural history of the world.
Do you reckon you’ve convinced him?
He’s not for convincing, imo.
I’d say you’re right, but I’m not necessarily talking just to him…
Others like him are equally entrenched. Time spent defending and explaining is time that could be better spent lifting your own team higher. ‘sup to you, of course. ‘snot my job to tell you what to do 🙂
Cheer. But I do believe that I am lifting the ‘team’ higher 😀
Live on a hill CV so all good. Contrary to feedback not sure where I am at on climate change. What i would like to see is more synthesis of various competing arguments and studies on climate change as you appear to get one view or the other For the layman it can be difficult to judge and simply reaching a view on political lines as many seem to do here does not really help, This is why I raised this article and sort your feedback as I new I would get one with out the usual BS , and thus you have lifted the team higher 😀
A pleasure to discuss with you Red Delusion, and thank you. Also worth checking where your services go through. Pipes, wires, pumping stations and exchanges your street relies upon may reside in or go through lower more easily waterlogged areas.
Red delusion. Not interested.
So the NBR is continuing to promote climate change denial. Hope that means all their rich readers go and buy low lying properties off the less well off, so that it’s those wealthy climate change deniers who get flooded in the not so distant future. Sadly thats probably not the way it will work out.
Not sure where you are on climate change, Red delusion?
As before, not interested.
If you are too green to support the Green Party you’re going to have a difficult time voting or otherwise participating in an election. They are as strong and as green as you are going to get anywhere in the world.
I’m always confused by this kind of politics – where someone else offers you a set menu and you contort your personal position away from what you really believe to conform to an option that someone else has picked for you.
Hello, Jenny.
You seem to be asking if the solution to the problem of climate change can be found by parsing the words from the speeches of a politician (or two).
I say no to that.
If you were asking my to choose which political party in New Zealand is most likely to have MPs who have a realistic grasp of what climate change is about and what might result from it, then I’d choose the Green Party, and that’s by a significant margin. I have had face to face discussions with Kennedy Graham, Metiria Turei, Russel Norman, Nandor Tanzcos, Rod Donald, Jeanette Fitzsimons, Gareth Hughes and many of the other Green MPs, past and present, so I’m basing my opinion on more than just what I read in their speeches. That means that I can answer your question, “…is the Green Party in denial about climate change?” with certainty, by saying,emphatically, no, it is not. Weka’s “4 points” are, apologies here, weka, not an especially useful vehicle for thinking about this issue, in my view. For example, the question that asks: “Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?” is nebulous and not pointed enough to illicit a real-world answer, in my view. Asking questions is essential, but the right ones can difficult to compose.
I wonder, Jenny, what you are doing today, aside from posting here? I’ve been doing what I do every day; making real-world preparations for the future by doing things that would fit comfortably into The ArchDruid’s “Green Wizard” guide to useful pursuits 🙂 Fortunately, communicating online is one of those things:-)
Hi Robert, haven’t you learnt to play the ball not the player.
As far as I know I have as much right to post here as you. As to what I am doing today. I shouldn’t have to justify myself.
Not that it is any of your business. But I actually at home because I am unwell. And please don’t let me burden the readers with the gory details.
But, for all you know I could be as incapacitated as Professor Hawking, so please don’t use this line of attack again. (On anyone).
But I have to thank you.
Your efforts to avoid giving a straight answer have made me so angry that I am getting up and going out, and doing all those things, that just like you say, I should be doing.
Hopefully when I come back and have I calmed down. I will be able to give you a more fuller reply.
Cheers Jenny
Jenny – you misread the tone of my comment and I’m sorry for that – it was not a negative criticism of you or what you might or might not be doing. I learned long ago not to play the man (or woman) unless there’s entertainment to be had by doing so. I’m not above gently ribbing.
As for your getting angry, I’ll put that down to your feeling unwell and hope you recover fully, soon. Your decision to get up and do all those things sounds like a good one and when you have regained your equilibrium, please do write back. I hope you’ll see that I was neither attacking you, nor doing anything other than giving my best-considered answers.
“Weka’s “4 points” are, apologies here, weka, not an especially useful vehicle for thinking about this issue, in my view.”
Hi Robert, they’re not my points, they’re Jenny’s. She is misrepresenting things (not for the first time). She obviously has a lot of passion about climate change but I find her approach confusing and unhelpful. I can’t make much sense of her original comment up thread, because she is mixing up so many different people’s views and arguments.
Hi weka please pardon me for using your words.
I did this deliberately to show that even by your own standards the New Zealand Green Party are denying, (if that is not too strong a word)** the reality of climate change. (Unlike CV or RG, I do not try to guess or impute any motive for this denial.)
The following is your original quote, and my break down of it. This time I have removed the numbers, which I admit may have been a bit of clumsy device to use to make my point.
“Seas are going to rise, but we still have a chance to mitigate the worst of CC. Do we want subsequent generations to live in contant panic? Or do we want them to be able to respond to the changes in their environment knowing that we are all doing everything we can, and that we chose to avert the worst of teh disaster.”
weka
http://thestandard.org.nz/our-plan-to-change-the-government/#comment-1183965
Does the Green Leader go on to promote or suggest any course of acton that may possibly “mitigate the worst of CC”?
Does the Green Party leadership, go on to outline a course of action that hopefully will prevent future generations living in “constant panic”?
Does the Green Party leadership outline a course of action in which future generations will “be able to respond to the changes in their environment”?
Is the Green Party calling on us to do “everything we can”, or that we “chose to”, to avert the worst of this disaster?
I had directed these question to Robert Guyton because he had written that maybe the reason the Green Party play down climate change is so as to not frighten the man in the street.
Also Robert had promised to have a closer look at James speech and report back.
“Hard, cold facts are suitable for certain occasions but not all. Walking up to some vulnerable soul in the street and telling them the “truth” could be a bit harsh if it leaves them a puddle of despair. I’m keen to have a closer look now, at James’ speech. I’ll report back” 🙂
Robert Guyton
Personally I had thought that James Shaw’s speech was inspiring and uplifting, even though it contained no concrete Green Party proposals on climate change. I made allowances for this, in that I believed at the time of reading and listening to James speech, that he was holding back so as to not preempt the next day’s advertised June 5 Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign by Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei.
I had expected a lot from the Centrepiece Launch because I remember James Shaw at the beginning of his tenure as Green Party co-leader promising that he would be making climate change the centrepiece of the Green Party’s campaigns.
I wrote on the Sunday Morning that I was really looking forward to that day’s Green Party Centre Piece launch, and I was.
Unfortunately I was terribly disappointed. The Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign was a rehash of the Green Party’s “Clean Rivers Campaign” with which the Green Party have fought the last two elections, relabelled as the “Swimmable Rivers Campaign”.
Now don’t get me wrong, I think that the terrible condition of our rivers needs to be addressed, but I don’t think that this should be used as an excuse to ignore climate change.
In Meteria Turei’s Launch of the Green Party’s Centrepiece Environmental Campaign, she made only the briefest possible mention of the two words “climate change”, which Meteria spoke in an aside from her main address. The two words climate change were tacked on the end of a short list of things that Meteria said the government was neglecting. And that was it. That was the only mention, of the biggest environmental catastrophe of all time.
Frankly speaking I thing that this was a disgrace and an insult to all those working and campaigning against climate change both here and overseas.
**Personally I do not think that the New Zealand Green Party are climate change deniers in the usual way this term is used and implied, I prefer the more accurate term Climate Change ignorers. A policy which I think we can all agree the New Zealand Green Party leadership have been actively pursuing for several years now. (If ignoring something can be considered something that is active, rather than passive.)
“Hi weka please pardon me for using your words.”
They’re not my words in the end though, you’ve taken them out of their context. They’re just words that you used and incorrectly attributed to me so that Robert (and possibly others) thought your questions were mine. Can you please be more careful in future?
We disagree about the role of the Green Party so I’ll leave it at that.
You are avoiding the issue.
Weka those are your own words.
You were commenting on a thread about James Shaw statement that in the future we will be able to visit a beach where the sea level won’t rise.
What can we make of this?
That the Green Party starting with their co-leader James Shaw are playing a game of sticking their fingers in their ears and going La-la-la-la-la?
James Shaw drew a word picture where everyone drives electric cars and all freight goes by rail, and sea level rise doesn’t happen, and said, “this is not science fiction.” But James Shaw did not forward one single political demand on how we get from the present, where climate change and sea level rise is a real world phenomenon, to his imagined world, where it isn’t.
Nothing about opposing deep sea oil drilling.
Nothing about insisting that the new coal mine projects in the pipeline in this country be scrapped.
Nothing about switching the $11 billion put aside for new motorways to public transport.
No mention of the Government using fraudulent carbon credits to cheat the ETS
No call to oppose the extension of the life of the coal fired Huntly power station.
No call to withdraw the government’s subsidies to Solid Energy and the oil companies.
No mention of what to do about climate refugees from our neighbouring Pacific countries directly threatened by climate change.
No ‘real world’ policy on climate change at all, zip, zero, nada.
What about Meteria Turei’s “Green Party Centrepiece Environmental Campaign Launch”, the following day, which was even worse. Turei mentioned the two words “climate change”, only once and in an aside from her main speech, and only then, in a recitation of a list of other things.
Ignoring climate change, the Green Party Centrepiece Environmental Campaign launch. Announced that the Green Party’s intention is to make “Swimmable Rivers” the centrepiece campaign of the Green Party.
(Which is a repackaging of the Green Party’s “Clean Rivers” campaign with which the Green Party have fought the last two elections with).
“Swimmable Rivers” while a nice ideal, won’t make a jot of difference if the rest of the biosphere is degraded by climate change, algae blooms, deoxidation as warm water holds less oxygen. And not directly related to rivers, the acidification of the oceans, will undo all the work to make rivers nice enough to swim in. And I might mention here that if climate change is not seriously addressed, having somewhere nice to swim may be the least of our problems.
So, what about the greatest environmental disaster of all time?
Have the Green Party given up on combating climate change?
Has climate change been put in the too hard basket by the Green Party?
How come, not one single policy mention, or announced initiative.
Not one single political demand.
Don’t the Green Party know that the Great Barrier Reef is dying, don’t they know the Arctic is losing its ice cover? is the Green Party not aware that the record breaking flood disasters around the globe that are inundating river side communities, and eroding river banks are due to warmer air holding more moisture, or that record forest fires, are due to the drying out of once temperate zones?
I don’t believe that the Green Party could be so ignorant.
So we are left with the question; is the Green Party too frightened of the government and the powerful fossil fuel lobby to demand action on climate change?
I ask you weka, what the hell is going on?
When even by your own standards the Green Party fall well short of the four ideas you raised in your concluding comment to the thread on James Shaw’s statement on climate change contained in his keynote speech.
Weka will you not face up to my comment on the apparent Green Party sell out on climate change? Instead of choosing to indulge in pedantic dancing around on the head of the pin, why not address the issue?
So weka;
Is it your opinion weka that this is not a sell out?
Do you think weka that the Green Party leadership will be launching campaigning initiatives on the issue of climate change at some future conference?
Typical. This is just the sort of cowardly avoidance to face up to the issues that I am talking about.
Weka can’t you even try to defend your Party’s direction? Is it to scary to face up to climate change, and what it means for the environment?
Is the Green Party are named after the wrong colour?
Are the Green Party too gutless to take on the fossil fuel lobby?
Should the Green Party be renamed the Yellow Party for their intransigence over refusing to take climate change seriously?
If the Green Party had any courage or moral compass climate change should be their “Centrepiece Campaign” because everything flows from that. (literally).
Why the Green Party “Swimmable Rivers”, “Centrepiece Campaign” which marginalises and ignores debate on climate change is completely idiotic and cowardly.
Warmer air holds more moisture….
While the Green Party are making plans to recreate their bucolic youth swimming in picturesque waterways. Climate change is stalking the world’s rivers threatening to turn them into deadly torrents at the slightest notice.
Warmer air holds more moisture….
So how do the Green Party intend to achieve their swimmable rivers?
Mandating the building of bigger and better sewerage and waste water treatment plants?, the replanting of riverbanks?
Don’t they know that just this sort of riverside infrastructure is extremely vulnerable to being swept away in the next muddy torrent?
The Green Party have the chance to act on climate change.
The newly signed MoU between the Greens and Labour both parties gave a commitment to support each other’s private members bills.
The Green Party need to start putting up private members bills to raise the national debate on climate change and nudge the Labour Party away from their support for business as usual.
First up should be a private members bill to scrap the ETS which on the current ballance of power in the house may even have a chance of passing if Labour supported it.
Next up should be a private members bill calling for the end of deep sea oil drilling challenging Labour to support it.
And probably one of the biggest bugbears of the climate change movement a bill to repeal the legislation in the RMA which prohibits climate change being taken into account as grounds for rejecting new fossil fuel projects.
These things can be done right now.
But they won’t.
Because the Green Party “Centrepiece Environmental Campaign” is swimmable rivers.
Cowardly, weak, fluffy. And with years of make work in Select committees and planning hearings which even if the Green Party get all the improvements they seek will be washed away in the next climate change fuelled mega flood.
“Robert in your opinion, does the Green Party fulfil any of the 4 points raised by weka?”
What 4 points did I raise? Link please.
I see, thanks, weka. Glitches aside, a progressive approach to this is the way forward. Let’s see what we’ve got, not what’s weighing-down the naysayers.
Completely in agreement there Robert.
Wonderful interview with Dr. Mark Crispin Miller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqupw3ycreg
Thanks for this. Scary. Abby Martin excellent as ever.
This manufacturing of consent and the media knowing what not to talk about, could also go some way to explain the Green Party’s self censorship over climate change.
Just saying.
Was WWI really the first time public opinion was mechanized towards war? I would agree if he said it was the first time it had been mechanized within a modern democracy. But kings had been doing it with priests from Egypt’s first kingdom.
I do get his point about cigarette marketing within Hollywood. Very clever.
But his claims that propaganda is now the most powerful now than it has ever been is a ridiculous reach. His talk works best for the 1970s and 1980s, when the era of television reigned supreme. No longer.
I really don’t get you.
An entire nation has been convinced that short term selfishness is the way that a small elite clique should rule the country, and somehow you believe that propaganda isn’t as powerful as ever, that propaganda only effects earlier, simpler, less smart people.
Bernays understood human nature better than most of us, I daresay. And better than the intellectual Left in general.
And he formulated his best work BEFORE the age of television.
No, Dr Miller’s argument was that this current era is the most propaganda-saturated era. I was arguing with Miller, not Bernays particularly.
I also think that short term selfishness is just an historic human tendency.
Modern advertising seeks to influence across competing product ranges. Whereas monarchies have employed religions more powerfully and towards more singular ends than modern advertising ever could.
I would argue though that the fracturing of the media landscape over the last decade has fractured the ‘Amusing Ourselves to Death’ argument/paranoia that we heard from Neil Postman, when tv and MTV and music manufacturers reigned supreme. No one sings the national anthem at the movies anymore.
You still don’t get it.
The propaganda of the day isn’t aimed at the masses.
It is aimed at the comfortable middle classes – who think they are the guardians of commonsense and right thinking in society – and the elite, the people who make up the backbone of the status quo establishment.
As for the fracturing of the media landscape. That has made it harder to communicate a single cohesive propaganda narrative. But that in of itself has nothing to do with how saturated our living space is with propaganda.
Finally, you have to understand that the western style of propaganda focusses on the propaganda of omission. Omitting crucial voices on subjects like climate change, poverty, war, economics, homelessness.
Once you wonder why certain critical facts never get mentioned, or why certain experts are never interviewed, you wake up to how pervasive this propaganda is.
The first problem there is making one category, ‘propaganda’, stretch too far. It doesn’t allow Miller to focus on anything helpfully. All classes get targeted. We just feel most closely the messaging directed towards the class we are in. Which again, just confuses one era with a mere human tendency.
I’d also have to disagree though with his idea that propaganda is principally driven by retail corporations and a few smart evil guys. Far better to consider the whole empire of ideas and how they are reified and amplified across MSM and digital media, across religions, across parties, across state rulers, across kinds of military, across NGOs including unions – now that would be a useful theory for our moment. He’s swinging for the easy hits.
Just to focus on one realm; political parties: since Obama 2008 we have already seen the left have far greater tools within the digital ream than in the MSM. Within the political realm alone the digital contest of ideas, largely free from advertising or taint present or absent, is spectacular in its rise. So what he’s missing is the free will present even within the most message-filled modes.
Witness two: relentless adopters New Zealand. Whaleoil and Kiwiblog and The Standard could well be some great vast conspiracy in which all speech is really just predetermined Marxist/Calvinist propaganda, but in reality the multitude is showing more power within these modes. Especially now, we can trust the multitude to make their voice clear.
Well, if you are right and there is a lively, true contest of ideas out there in the media market place representing the independent voice of the masses, then we won’t be have any problems with our democracy reflecting the true aspirations, attitudes and concerns of Kiwis.
I think that’s bunk of course, and that our democracy is not just sick, but further sickening, but that’s just me.
Well if the Left in NZ is more clever than this guy then we shouldn’t have too much trouble getting our desired messaging across to more voters eh.
It’s not just the left.
It’s a tribute to the communicative skills of both Sanders and Trump that they have got so far, so fast, with stuff-all corporate funding and stuff-all MSM relationships, and the MSM working double time against them. They simply have excellent political skills.
(Indeed so does Warren. And Peters taking Northland out of nowhere!)
That’s the real confusion here. We presume because the left have been out of power for so long, that there’s some great conspiracy of inevitability. Human agency is real; is, I think, more powerful than ever, and that is especially the case in politics.
That’s fine Ad; my idea of political operations and propaganda operations is not quite the same as yours.
I only focussed on political propaganda and political agency because this is what we generally discuss here.
But, as I pointed out, by mashing together political and commercial propaganda, he misses out vast other fields of communicative influence. All you have done in trying to separate out ‘political operations’ from ‘propaganda operations’ is admit that the sweeping term ‘propaganda’ doesn’t hold any analytical clarity for us.
If he was really having a crack at how ideas form and get amplified and change behavior across the military, across religions, across MSM, across digital realms, across kinds of state, across NGOs and unions, now there would be a useful theory. He doesn’t, so isn’t useful.
Sorry mate, this guy has studied American media and propaganda for decades including how elections are stolen; I can learn and integrate more useful from him on this topic.
BTW I believe Chris Hedges, the veteran foreign correspondent, would agree with him more than he would with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Yope1eP4k
CV I’ve run out of reply tabs but I’ll have a look at that next interview tomorrow.
Part two to draw out the debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSWO8V7E5Kw
His issue about the growing dependency of MSM reporters upon state institutions for stories is fair. They are definitely vulnerable. But if ever I get worried that there are no more ‘Goodnight, and Good Luck’ stories, I just flick to Rachel Maddow and Mr Oliver.
I would also agree with the self-ceonsorship point, but particularly about the security state within China and the US. The violence and humiliation to the big whistleblowers over the last decade is quite some policing.
But I own a full set of National Geographics going back from 1933 to the 1970s. Call me a nerd. Now there you see the growth of industrial propaganda mechanizing through World War Two, accelerating with the growth of the state, but also watching their interests shear away from each other in the 1970s. One might argue in response simply that “propaganda” is simply more subtle and hence more pervasive. I think we have to honour the power of the patterns of the past
I hate his idea that the “window slammed shut” in the 1980s. That is so foolish. The melancholic left fools itself into defeat. There are now always multiple competing empires. In fact especially now. Need I say it, if propaganda really worked, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump would never have got off the ground. This guy is a pale imitation of Chomsky’s more original Manufacturing Consent, when the causal links were nice and clear.
I have to say Ad that would have to be a record for condemning someone, what a single 28 minute interview?
But the point is, just in case you missed it, that propaganda works best when people deny it is even happening. Or put it onto the other, I see you went for both arguments.
Interesting that you reached for Trump and Sanders, good point all politicians use propaganda. I’d say Trump is rather good at it. His use of the medium, and shifting the debate – has been masterful, love him or hate him.
Look on here the last few days, and me bemoaning about talking points – which are a instrument of propaganda. Te Reo Putake, has run with clinton talking points for weeks – or in layman’s terms, the propaganda set out by the clinton campaigner. He is entitled too, that is what this site was set up for. But it is still propaganda.
I think you want propaganda wrapped up as something that happens elsewhere, and don’t want to admit your thoughts are not your own. It is horrific position position to be in, it happens to us all in the 21st century.
You are making ‘propaganda’ to be simply: ‘the stuff I disagree with you on’. That’s just a categorical confusion.
Your talking point about talking points isn’t very helpful. People reify overseas opinions all the time. Calling that propaganda is just silly. Far better to tease out and name the intersecting influences into actual real powers.
If you look back on this site over two months about the number of posts supporting Sanders versus those supporting Clinton, Sanders does pretty well. Very well: count them up.
Propaganda is too often used as a term by leftie conspiracy theorists to suggest that there is an all-knowing, all-present, Sauron-like ether of influence that determines the world. Which, for socialists who have been out of power since the 1980s, probably feels about right.
But that’s just a sad confusion of political history with theory.
There were a few who tried that in the late 1980s, particularly Fredereic Jamieson’s Postmodernism, or: The Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism. That didn’t even survive the Bushes for relevancy.
It is at times quite depressing reading what you write Ad. Your blanket given up – crosses over to, we should give up and accept it. Nothing will change, maybe a little, is deeply troubling.
In the 21 century right, power resides in the hands of a few at the expense of the many.
Are you so naive as to think that people in power don’t us every trick they have to hold onto that power?
I don’t care who had how many posts sanders or clinton, it has to do with the angles and approaches people take on those post. That those angles and approaches have been governed by propaganda. If the propaganda is good then these framing is what was laid out from those camps. If not, then they were not talked about.
I’m getting the feeling you don’t like the word propaganda. It is a word to cover the simple and complex idea that – someone is using a message to promote a certain point of view.
So in politics, we deal in propaganda all the time, advertising, public relations, lobbying, education, books, video games, web page developers. All these people are propagandist. People get offended when called out that is what they do. Sneaky feeling you many be one of them?
But what was truly sad was when you reached for the third crotch of people who don’t want to accept that propaganda exist in their society, and call everyone who says it does a conspiracy theorist. A very weak position, makes you sound like you did not watch the video. Because…
Bloody nora. Next you will say there are no ideologies? No theological differences? That it is wrong to offend people? And that conspiracies do not happen. That juts playing into the hands of power, to weaken working people even more.
I know it’s a bit like the stages of grief learning that you are be manipulated at a sociological level. Good news, after the denial stage, it gets easier. More good news, knowing that is what is happening, you can take steps to acknowledge when you become influenced by propaganda.
You’re talking out your arse.
Propaganda exists in video games, novels, advertising and politics. And probably other places that I haven’t thought about.
And it is more powerful. A huge amount of research has gone into it over the last 100 odd years since Bernays started it. I mentioned video games and that’s because modern video games are designed to draw you in and keep you there, to keep you paying to play. I’ve got a pet on my World of Warcraft characters that can be ‘charged up’ in either red or blue if I buy a particular type of drink that comes in, you guessed it, red and blue.
I’ve read quite a bit about how games and advertising manipulate, there really is no other word, people into doing things that they haven’t really thought about.
Agree with manipulate. Definitely.
But that’s not the same as propaganda, unless we’re going to get lost in an arcane definitional argument.
propaganda
manipulate
Public opinion is a manufactured product.
‘Income inequality declined abruptly in 2013 after President Obama and Congress negotiated an increase in taxes on the wealthiest Americans, according to new federal data.’
Too easy – they also have a CGT …. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/09/obama-really-did-sock-it-to-the-rich-bad/
Is it too Left Melancholic of me to want a real estate correction?
We all want a real estate correction 😈
Is it too centrist of me to not want one, as well?
sorry, I was being a bit sarcastic. I don’t think a correction is going to be enough, so I was meaning something else 🙂
I hope for it too Weka but not with a pin-prick but by government building houses, a slow process which should help all but the extremely foolish to survive.
On the other hand it is questionable if the industry can cope and really mass production of pre-fabs/basic housing units is the only way to get on top of the problem, but can you imagine the current or future govt doing that … I cannot more is the pity.
Plenty of ways to get affordable housing in NZ, but people don’t want to talk about them because they see home ownership as primarily an investment. IMO, that’s why we can’t resolve the current situation.
Long term stabilization for me please in the overheated parts of the country, and government policies to to reinvigorate the provinces so they catch up up bit so the country isn’t devided by house price.
Agora 9
10 June 2016 at 10:16 am
Further to your comment about NZ and its large debt … matched by individuals I believe.
Kim Hill talking to an economist writer from the UK who pointed out that people today accept large credit card debts as part of life. Whereas my aim was to treat mine as a monthly account as many folk had in the ‘old days’ and for the past few years I have managed this.
Banking is a great business to be in … even a crash will have them coming out smelling of roses is recent US/UK experience is anything to go by.
Hmm…..
A new technique turns climate-warming carbon emissions to stone. In a test program in Iceland, more than 95 percent of the carbon dioxide injected into basaltic lava rocks mineralized into solid rock within two years. This surprisingly fast transformation quarantined the CO2 from the atmosphere and could ultimately help offset society’s greenhouse gas emissions, scientists report in the June 10 Science.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/volcanic-rocks-help-turn-carbon-emissions-stone-%E2%80%94-and-fast
An interesting and useful result but difficult to implement in real life on a real life thermal plant etc
I’ve spent the afternoon listening to the soundtrack of Hamilton. Which is about US founding father Alexander Hamilton. It’s really entertaining for history and politics nerds like myself.
‘EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 12 days to go
Exclusive: polling carried out for ‘The Independent’ shows that 55 per cent of UK voters intend to vote for Britain to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum.’
Worth watching this story…..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635851/Shock-10-point-lead-Brexit-just-13-days-sends-David-Cameron-Remain-campaign-panic-mode.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html
Should Cameron resign as PM if he loses?
Boris would be a pig in muck.
Cameron’s already announced he will step down as prime minister before the 2020 election, although he still intends to run as an MP. I think a vote to leave the EU will trigger his departure from No 10, or even a very tight vote to remain.
Quite interested in Winnie’s advice to Britain that they’d be better off voting for Brexit, foregoing the small European ‘family’ market with all its limitations and restrictive rules and looking to the wider international market ( including New Zealand). Dunno much about it but does that make sense?
It’ll be a big blow to the finance industry and also to environmental regulations and labour rights. On the whole, I think it’s a bad idea.
Ad-Cameron also had some issue with pigs- Sounds similar but I don’t think it was ‘muck’.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80968534/tributes-flow-for-last-28th-maori-battalion-vet-charlie-patera-who-died
Respect the last 28th Maori Battalion soldier passes.
end of an era. Condolences and happy travels Sir.
Modeling financial instability with energy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuHJTh2JOw&feature=em-subs_digest