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Open mike 12/02/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:02 am, February 12th, 2014 - 145 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

145 comments on “Open mike 12/02/2014”

  1. Jenny 1

    More expensive than emissions reductions, but could save lives as Superstorms become more devastating.

    Geo engineering anyone?

    http://www.earthtechling.com/2013/12/can-offshore-wind-turbines-slow-hurricanes/

    • weka 1.1

      More proof that we are surely the stupidest species on the planet. Hurricanes increasing in frequency and severity due to AGW, so instead of mitigating AGW, let’s use more fossil fuels to try and maintain the facade that everything will be alright if we can just out-tech nature and our own mistakes.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

        /facepalm

        Considering the number of wind turbines that they’re talking about I suspect most, if not all, fossil fuel generation in the US could be decommissioned.

  2. “..The mind of a heroin addict: the struggle to get clean and stay sober..

    .For a heroin addict – recovery is a life-long process.

    Philip Seymour Hoffman had been clean for 23 years before he relapsed in 2013 -

    - and died from an apparent overdose last week.

    To many people who have never grappled with addiction -

    - it can be difficult to comprehend the desperate desire to use -

    - even after so many years sober.

    To gain deeper insight into drug addiction -

    - we asked recovering heroin users to share their experiences with us.

    Nearly 300 people responded -

    - describing their struggle to get clean -

    - and the ongoing battle to stay sober.

    Here we publish a selection of those responses..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/interactive/2014/feb/11/heroin-addiction-recovery-readers-response-interactive

    phillip ure..

    • Ad 2.1

      Mr Hoffman determined to take a pretty substantial amount of a Class A drug, while having two young children. I think, after 23 years, what he did was spectacularly selfish.

      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        @ ad..

        ..and you are an ignorant/judgmental-fool..

        ..(so that’s that sorted..)

        ..and how is that cancer-causing flesh/fat-addiction you have going on..going..?

        ..and passing it on to yr children..eh..?

        ..how both ignorant and ‘spectacularly-selfish’ is that..?

        ..and..can’t stop it/give it up..?

        ..how piss-weak is that..?

        ..and you sneer at heroin addicts..?

        ..you ignorant fool..

        ..(you want bacon with that..?..)

        phillip ure..

        • Ad 2.1.1.1

          No sneering other than from you on another tiresome righteous roll.

          Mr Hoffman should be evaluated both for what he did, and for the consequences of what he did.

          • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1

            @ ad..and yrslf..?

            ..with yr flesh-fat-addiction..?

            ..just in denial..are we..?

            ..and what do you think the ‘consequences’ are of you passing on yr flesh/fat-addiction to yr children..?

            ..the ‘normals’ in yr life..will be looked upon in the future with as much horror as we now view children trapped in cars with cigarette-smokers..

            ..but you are too pig-ignorant to have the slightest awareness of that..

            ..and..like the booze..?..do we..?

            ..it/that’s..the kiwi-way..

            ..eh..?..

            ..and a little fucken medical-fact/quizz for you..

            ..two people..

            ..one uses (medicinal-quality/clean) narcotics for 20 yr..then stops..

            ..other drinks heavily for 20 yrs..then stops..

            ..guess which one will be most longterm fucked-over by their 20 yr addiction..?

            ..whose liver will be most rooted..?

            ..eh..?

            ..(d’ya want a beer with that bacon..?..)

            ..phillip ure//

            • Ad 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Hmm, so far, Mr Hoffman’s herion overdose – of which he alone is responsible – is somehow also about smoking, bacon, alcohol consumption, children trapped in cars, and the Kiwi way. Stop flailing about. His use of heroin does not reflect on anyone but himself.
              Mr Hoffman – particularly after 23 years – is responsible for taking heroin. And is responsible for the consequences. No one else.

              • bad12

                Ad, that is a seriously stupid comment, there is only one other substance in the world that matches the addictive power of Heroin and that is Nicotine,

                If you have no understanding of addiction you should get an education as addiction by definition is to use a substance or take actions,(as in the use of pokey machines), that no matter how ‘responsible’ you are in your other actions in life it becomes impossible for you to not use the products which are the subject of the addiction…

                • @ bad..hate to disagree with someone who is agreeing with me..

                  ..but..having undergone withdrawals from both..

                  ..on a scale of severity running from one to ten..

                  ..tobacco is one..

                  ..heroin is nine..

                  ..that heroin/tobacco-line is usually trotted out by self-excusing tobacco-addicts..

                  ..personally..i view those still addicted to tobacco..

                  ..and trotting out that excuse..

                  ..as weak as piss..

                  ..on the scale of things..

                  ..tobacco was no big thing to give up..

                  ..phillip ure..

                • View Balanced

                  And how did he become addicted? Do you think he unwittingly started using Heroin without knowing its addictive reputation?

                  He is responsible for his own addiction, and his own death. Denying this worries me. We need to teach our children to take accountability for their own actions, our communities will be better off for it.

                  • bad12

                    That may or may not be true, many people i know have become addicted to all sorts of things blissfully unaware of the literature screaming about the addictive nature of whatever it is they have become addicted to,

                    There is also the ‘i will try a little just once school of addicts’ along with some peoples personal ego which tells them that they will never become an addict to anything as they consider themselves far too strong,

                    Attempting to teach your children the risks of addiction while obviously the right thing to do also has in a small % the opposite effect, much like teaching children the do’s and don’ts of sex, that small % thus educated in the dangers will just have to go out and try it anyway,

                    There is another means of death that has killed many of those addicted to Heroin where the addict used to cooking X amount of the drug does so on that one occasion only to tragically find that the product has not been ‘stepped on’, diluted with another non-toxic product to the extent of what the addict has normally shot up their veins, which simply causes them an instant and fatal overdose…

              • ad = mono-view..

                ..he/she lives in a simple world..

                ..absolutely chocka-block with absolutes..

                ..eh..?..ad..?

                ..are you addicted to absolutes..?

                ..d’yareckon..?

                phillip ure..

            • bad12 2.1.1.1.1.2

              Phillip, i think you will find that there is much clinical research about Heroin/Nicotine addiction that says exactly what i have just said in the comment above about Nicotine addiction,

              All addictive substances effect individuals to a greater or lesser extent as far as the extent of the individuals addictions are manifested,

              i know people in the 70,s when street level addiction to Heroin was at it’s height who could ping up on a regular basis, to the extent that you would consider them ‘junkies’ who could when supply run out withdraw from Heroin without a problem,

              Other heavy users of the time i personally know could take or leave the drug having no addiction problem with it, does that make you as ‘weak as piss’???,

              You should obviously do more research on the subject befor insulting anyone with an addiction to anything which seems to be your modus operendi,

              Is ex-Prime Minister Helen Clark ‘as weak as piss’, She also described the addiction to Nicotine as i have…

              • in the street cred addiction Olympics you didn’t medal mate :)

              • umm..!..

                ..a fact about heroin addiction you may not be aware of..

                ..is that it actually takes quite a long time to get yr first ‘habit’..

                ..the honeymoon-period with that drug is longer than most would expect..

                ..but the key difference with nicotine is that a nicotine habit is a nicotine habit..

                ..end of story..

                ..whereas each succeeding heroin habit you get..kicks in sooner..is even more addictive..

                ..and the withdrawals also increase in intensity..

                ..so i quite believe yr tales of people seemingly using for a while..heavily even..

                ..and not going thru that heavy a withdrawal..

                ..and that increasing severity is what made me finally pull the plug..

                ..and is what keeps me away to this day..

                ..’cos i didn’t finally stop thru any great exercise of moral-willpower/or the like..

                ..having gone thru more nasty withdrawals than i care to remember..

                ..i hadn’t used for a number of years…(and had been travelling..)

                ..and i returned to sydney..and ran into an old drug-buddy and his wife..on the street..

                ..and went to their house..where i was offered smack..

                ..i thought..’one night..what the hell..!’..

                ..so i indulged..slept on their sofa..

                ..and woke in the morning with an overwhelming urge to have more heroin..now..!

                ..and within one week of using..i was where a one to two yr habit wd have had me in the past..

                ..and that scared the hell out of me..

                ..so i ran away..and locked myself into a room for a few days..

                ..to go thru the severe withdrawals such a small amount after so long had left me with..

                ..and after that..i knew i had reached the tipping-point..

                ..where the ensuing pain so overwhelmed that initial/transitory pleasure..

                ..to such a degree..

                ..i knew i couldn’t go there again..

                ..(and re yr clark-comment..?..seriously..?

                ..and really..bad..on this particular subject..

                ..don’t you think i may have a tad more experience/knowledge..

                ..than that shown in some throwaway comment from clark..?..)

                ..and as i originally said..nicotine one…heroin nine..

                ..you..and most others..really have no fucken idea what that experience is like..

                phillip ure..

                .

                • bad12

                  Actually Phillip having considered your disjointed bullshit reply i think your whole problem is that you suffer from being not only totally ‘up yourself’ but also that you are a typical whining fucking junky too piss weal to kick the habit,

                  As i pointed out above, addiction to anything will effect those addicted in different ways, because your addiction took a while to establish means nothing, except to your overblown ego, many are addicted on their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd taste of heroin,(more fool them and you, having heard the story of the addictive nature of heroin from an older sibling at age 14 i decided not to indulge although all my friends of the time became jumkies),

                  As far as the comments of Helen Clark goes on the subject of Nicotine/Heroin addiction i should imagine that She got Her information from the likes of the US CDC or any one of the many universities that have conducted addiction studies into the relative effects of the two substances as opposed to you who seemingly only requires the information to come via your personally compromised drug addled junkies brain,

                  Here’s a little reading for you,

                  http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/quit-how-to-quit/you…/nicotine

                  http://www.nytimes.com/…/nicotine-harder-to-kickthan-heroin-habit.html

                  http://www.whyquit.com/whyquit/A-henningfield-benowitz.html

                  http://www.independent.co.uk/…/why-nicotine-is-as-addictive-as-heroin...

                  If, as usual my ‘links’ don’t work i found all those links by Googling: ”Nicotine considered as addictive as heroin”…

                  • greywarbler

                    Don/t hold back bad12. There is a lot to be said for you, one is that your ‘column inches’ are a lot more fact-packed into them than phillip u’s.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz, why thank you greywarbler, tho i must admit to straying into the realm of bullshit on the odd occasion…

                  • Murray Olsen

                    My experience is that nicotine is harder to kick than heroin. As this is different from Phil’s experience, it is obviously invalid.

                    I think you have hit on an important point, bad12. Many people stop using narcotics but spend the rest of their lives talking about how their drug experience changed their life, how they feel urges every day, etc, etc. While I will mention my experiences on the odd occasion that they are relevant, I’m glad to see the back of the shit, and of the lifestyle. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who carries on about it all the time, like Russel Brand, hasn’t taken back control of their own life.

                    • I agree Murray – which is where my ‘street cred’ attempted humour came from above. There are a lot of addictions out there and i think in many ways our society endorses addictive personalities and their particular poison of choice as part of the neolib experiment – in a similar way to making everything a competition or popularity contest.

                  • “..but also that you are a typical whining fucking junky too piss weal to kick the habit..”

                    really..?…i haven’t used since the late 80′s.

                    ..so what the fuck are you banging on about..

                    ..you fucken fool….

                    ..and still smoking ciggies..are we..?

                    ..seriously hooked on flesh/fat..?..

                    ..body crapping out from it..?

                    ..and fucken sneer on..eh..?

                    ..i offer my experience/knowledge gained..

                    ..over 20 yrs of fucken heavy using/withdrawing…

                    ..(as opposed to the many weekend warriors..who ‘just got a bit fluey’ when they stopped..

                    ..but i already explained the accelerated-effects from each habit..

                    ..what can’t you fucken understand about that..?)

                    ..i have nothing more to say..

                    ..you can either fucken accept it or not..

                    ..i’m not gonna play tag with yr self/serving/apologising/aggraindising/boo-hoo!-bullshit…about nicotine..

                    ..except..’really..?..’

                    “..as opposed to you who seemingly only requires the information to come via your personally compromised drug addled junkies brain…”

                    ..really..?..there..bad..?..

                    ..well..after i kicked the junk..

                    ..i went to university..and got a masters degree..

                    ..so..basically..fuck you..eh..?..

                    ..what have you done lately..?

                    ..and..what’s yr poison..?..(aside from the ciggies..)

                    ..hic..!

                    ..on ‘nerve-pills’..?

                    ..how about you list yr current addictions..

                    ..phillip ure..

                    • bad12

                      Phillip, seriously, you will have to try and contain yourself, such antagonism might have you via the fight or flight mechanism running full tilt into a serious drug relapse,

                      You know what they say Phillip, ”once a sniveling fucking junky, always a sniveling fucking junky”, put in a far more mild description and delivery Phillip, although you are by now possibly far to enraged and/or brain damaged to be able to comprehend this, all addicts are simply one small step away from their next relapse,(those of them that are not bald faced liars claiming to be ‘free’ while secretly indulging themselves that is),

                      Nope, smoking cigarettes is my addiction and i satisfy myself that while doing so might compromise the length of time my mortal self gets to spend on the planet in a negative way, as i grow all of my own the addiction doesn’t compromise me in any other way,

                      Your obsession with fat amuses me but under analysis the way in which you attempt to ‘use’ this s a means of battering/bettering other commentrs here is both childish,

                      For your info the only animal i eat is fish, BUT, shock-horror, once a week i go to the local take-away and have a yummy bacon and egg burger, oh god think of the poor piggy being badly raised in it’s sty just so i can consume a small part of it’s back leg, it just makes me want to sob…

                    • gee bad..

                      ..yr ignorances are as wide as they are deep..eh..?

                      ..and seeing you are so liberal with the ad homs..

                      ..a fat unhealthy fuck..aren’t ya..?

                      ..and which decade are you in..?

                      ..in yr to-be-fore-shortened life..

                      ..’cos if the baccy doesn’t get you..

                      ..the bacon/cheese/fat will..

                      ..and the combination..?

                      ..washed down with a few beers..eh..?

                      ..puff-puff-glug-glug-chew-chew..eh..?

                      ..(and you sneer @ vegan health-freak ex-junkies..?..seriously..?..)

                      ..bad..this is yr life..

                      ..and that is kinda sad..

                      ..got diabetes yet..?

                      ..heading there..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • bad12

                      AW Phillip, your remarks are just sooo cutting that they hurt, actually your latest effort at the English language which you also fail miserably at is akin to the well used wet bus ticket except of course in your case the arm swinging it is that of a true whimp,

                      Funnily enough having puffed on the baccy for the best part of 44 odd years 20+ a day and 20 of those smoking unfiltered boob weed you would think that i would be truly a candidate to be riddled with the big C,

                      Sorry to disappoint you tho Phillis recent blood tests and x-rays show nothing amiss, except the bizarre case of the missing osteophyte from the lip of L4 on the lumbar spine, bizarre being that as a piece of bone growth they don’t just disappear, especially ones as large as that one appeared to be,

                      Yes i know Phillis, 1 bacon and egg burger a week is so sacrilegious in your wee tiny world view you actually think that such can damage my or anyone’s health, perhaps it’s not so much a belief of yours Phillis but a wish because in your wee mind that craves those drugs so fiercely every day you transfer your self hate onto those around you who do not agree with your bizarre views or the heroic self image you attempt to portray by ‘pretending’ to be drug free,

                      As to your question of alcohol, no. fish, vege, brown rice, multi grain bread, whole wheat flour, fruit, that’s my diet,

                      With of course that fucking yummy bacon and egg burger once a week,Salurpies big time,

                      By the way Phillis, what exactly did you do with this masters degree, it seems you simply wasted the resources of the education system to get this degree and now you spend all your time online pontificating about shit very few people care about and if the truth was only known very few read either,

                      That masters degree certainly didn’t stop you driveling like the village idiot in barely understandable sentences and i would suggest all in all you might as well have remained a whining junky at least the smack would have shut you up on the odd occasion,

                      In conclusion you seem to have wasted your life first on being a junky and secondly on gaining a masters degree which you appear to have put to no good use whatsoever…

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2

            I think we need to understand why he went back to using heroin before we can make any judgement at all. After 23 years, I don’t think it was the addiction that had him going back.

            • bad12 2.1.1.1.2.1

              Fair point Draco, and perhaps the question ties in with my comment below about the nature of the Afghan poppy crop,

              Perhaps among His peer group use of the drug is more common than we know of and being subjected to ‘rave reviews’ of the latest Afghan originated product had Him curious enough to have a taste,

              i have one friend, now a P head, who started using Heroin in His teens, He has been re-habbed a number of times in the past 30 years and while telling anyone who cared to listen that He was ‘drug-free’ continued to use whenever He could source the drug going to some quite extraordinary lengths at times trying to create the product out of other peoples flowers half inched from their gardens…

      • bad12 2.1.2

        Ad, perhaps, then again this years supply out of Afghanistan might have hit the retail market in a far more pure form than previously,

        There has to be a ‘reason’ why such a mountainous inhospitable country has been the target of invasion down through the centuries and in reality the only commodity of great value produced there being the opium poppy looks in my opinion to be ‘it’,

        You could say that the logical reason for the refusal to leave Afghansitan by the US is to stop the Taliban from again taking control of the country,

        Then again it was the Taliban along with it’s ‘other crimes’ who stopped the production from the poppy fields, creating a serious dent in the supply of the ‘best’ heroin to be produced anywhere in the world,

        Under US occupation the production of heroin from the production of the Afghan poppy fields has grown exponentially the longer the US has remained, it’s a multi billion dollar industry with even the brother of the Afghan Prez,(looking after the Prez’s interests perhaps???),said to be involved,

        Think the CIA’s Air America of the Indo-China wars with a rational decision having been made by those marketing the product to not have it flood the streets ‘it’ being reserved as the province of the elite…

      • greywarbler 2.1.3

        Ad
        What about Rob Hall who called his wife from Everest where he was going to die, leaving her with their children to bring up alone. Wasn’t he selfish, not giving up on his addiction to climbing high lumps of rock topped with snow, a dangerous, harsh climate and location? Once he had children wouldn’t a good man have denied himself that risk-taking activity?

        • McFlock 2.1.3.1

          good call.

          True addiction (not pu’s obsession with veganism) is something that I’m incredibly glad I’ve not yet had on my back (even my involuntary tobacco-free periods are not overly painful). As I understand it, Hoffman was clean for 20-odd years and it still came back to bite him in the arse.

          We aren’t talking about someone being selfish and ignoring people who love him – as I understand it from people close to me, addiction is a fog that blinds you to everything except your weakness, a fog that you need to constantly beat back and fight simply in order to function as a human being. And sometimes it envelopes you anyway, especially if you are tired or it can hide something painful to be aware of.

          there but for the grace of quantum uncertainty, I guess :)

          • greywarbler 2.1.3.1.1

            +1
            And I have noticed in myself and others I know how we seem to have an addictive response to much in life. It is tremendously hard to change direction, stop eating too much, drinking, whatever seems to be the norm for us even when it is counter-productive.

            And the way that others relate to us, some get strokes from succeeding in sport and will play with broken bits in the body, ruin their health immediately or later as they become aged. Some get a kick from stirring up others, and being different from the common herd, and some are committed to better ways and only addiction to that idea keeps them sacrificing their working and leisure time for
            the big goal, rather than their own advancement.

            Some people here will be interested in the radio report on residues in food. Safe food campaign – imported grapes with about 35 different detected residues – local watchdog says incredibly small amounts, just as safe to eat as organic food! This, says official outfit Ag something like Agcarm, is just scaremongering (by greenies).

            • McFlock 2.1.3.1.1.1

              I certainly believe in quality of life over quantity – quite the hedonist, me.
              The trouble with addiction is that it drags you back even when you don’t feel good doing it – I know an alcoholic who normally keeps it within social limits, but every year or two slips into levels that are disgraceful. Now, I tend to be a dick when drunk, too, but this person has that “shame” thing going on, where they wake up the next day and are mortified, and periodically hit a sub-basement of behaviour (if not rock-bottom) that drives them sober for a while.

              Me, not so much.

              That person I would say is largely enslaved by their addiction. Me, I’m more of a dick, regardless of any chemical dependency. My level of addiction does not outweigh my sense of shame or what I would like for a better quality of life. Their level of addiction brings down their quality of life and their ability to function in society.

          • MaxFletcher 2.1.3.1.2

            “there but for the grace of quantum uncertainty, I guess”

            love it!

          • phillip ure 2.1.3.1.3

            so..mcflock..you are addicted to tobacco..?

            ..but you have never had a ‘true-addiction’..?

            ..who are you trying to kid..?..yrslf..?

            ..and i’ll bet the thought of not being able to eat flesh/fat makes you break out in a cold-sweat..

            ..eh..?

            ..you do know what defines ‘addiction’..don’t you..?

            ..and..like a beer..?..do we..?

            .philip ure..

            • McFlock 2.1.3.1.3.1

              Phil, my point is that I’ve never tried to quit. To steal from Milton, I might be regarded as “To vice industrious, but to Nobler deeds Timorous and slothful”.

              I embrace my lifestyle, all my habits are at a level where the cost is an acceptable exchange for the quality of life.

              To compare that with people I know whose addictions do take an unacceptable toll on their quality of life yet they cannot stop that habit would be hypocritical sympathy-seeking. I’ve never mortgaged the family home to finance a habit, I’ve never destroyed relationships with people I love, and I’ve never ended up in jail, because of my addictions. I just roll along, chillaxed about most things and with not a care or responsibility in the world. In that I am very lucky.

              Willingly partaking of a bad habit is not “addiction”. Addiction is when you can’t stop when you try. I almost certainly do have chemical dependencies on one or two things, but I’ve never felt them to any degree because my appetites for them are largely satiated at a socially and financially and personally acceptable level. Although the latest tax hike has tweaked my tobacco habits a touch, I’m not losing sleep over it.

              • re.. ‘the quality of life’..

                ..from smoking/drinking/gorging on fat/flesh..?

                ..preferably all @ once..?

                ..this is a ‘good time’..eh..?

                ..and you call that a ‘quality’ life..?

                ..really..?

                ..you haven’t lived yet..eh..?

                ..on so so many levels..

                ..and yes..i’ve been where you are now..

                ..but maybe more so..

                ..and seriously..!

                ..get a life..!..eh..?

                ..phillip ure..

                • McFlock

                  I eat the babies of sheep and drink rich liquors, and when finish inhale the smoke of burning leaves, and yes that is delightful to me.

                  And dude, if you’d found a higher state of being you wouldn’t be such a sanctimonious prick.

                  By the way, the topic was addiction. Learn to focus. I’m drunk – what’s your excuse?

      • Murray Olsen 2.1.4

        Ad, you may be right, but what would you have done to help Mr. Hoffman stop using heroin? Unless you have a solution to discuss, your comment is not particularly helpful.

    • Chooky 2.2

      Philip …I find what you say interesting ie it does give an understanding of the terrible addiction factor…

      Mallory Manning the beautiful young woman murdered by the Mongrel Mob in Christchurch was on the methadone treatment and was working as a prostitute….but refused to pay the Mongrel Mob a portion of her earnings for working on Manchester St ….the Mongrel Mob regarded this street as their patch and demanded money from all the prostitutes working here.

      I have always thought that although prostitution should be legal for women self employed working from their homes or a house …..it should be illegal for pimps and illegal on the public streets…apart from being a public nuisance …..it is dangerous , even more dangerous without policing

      • phillip ure 2.2.1

        @ chooky..

        ..i think the cops were somewhere else..

        ..on the night..

        ..chasing pot..

        ..probably..

        ..that’s so much easier than protecting prostitutes from mob-stand-over..

        ..eh..?

        ..phillip ure..

    • adam 2.3

      Phil I thought you might like this – it seems once again Marijuana is a wonder drug that can fix the irrecoverable.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/11/marijuana-hiv_n_4767901.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037&ir=Politics

      Let not get into a discussion on the environmental aspects of growing hemp.

      Instead, lets just look at how good it is as a drug in medicine.

      • phillip ure 2.3.1

        chrs 4 that adam..i have used it @ whoar..

        ..here is the headline in adams’ link..

        “..Marijuana May Stop The Spread Of HIV – Study Finds..”

        ..phillip ure..

  3. bad12 3

    Interesting changes ahead for RadioNZ National might help make the old favorite more listenable with hopefully a more robust debate on the issues of the day being the end result,

    Pity ‘Nine to Noon’ isn’t suffering the same revamp as in my opinion it’s become a bland irrelevancy where issues of the day are treated with scant regard while ‘candy floss’ becomes topics of intense scrutiny, obviously the lack of National Government Ministerial involvement in the ‘hot’ issues of the day sadly devalue the content of the program, but, as a reason not to have intense political debate the non-show of the Government to put their views should never be a ‘reason’ not to have the political debate on air as an ongoing conversation,

    Mora’s ‘movement’ a sign of abysmal ratings, or the pressure of the ongoing commentary of a critical nature much of which has been published right here???…

    • just saying 3.1

      Interesting.
      Where did you find this bad12?

      • bad12 3.1.1

        JS, sorry my linking is really ‘bad’, the ‘movements’ at RadioNZ National were detailed on the Herald On-line this morning…

      • ScottGN 3.1.2

        Radio NZ announced these changes themselves via a news item I caught while driving home from work yesterday evening. I’m pleased that Susie Ferguson has been mooted for Morning Report. I can’t quite figure out how the hybrid Mora/Wilson The Panel/Checkpoint thing is going to work out?

    • Chooky 3.2

      Nine to Noon is great…..Katherine Ryan is great!

      • phillip ure 3.2.1

        @ chooky..

        um..!..no..!

        ..the relentless neo-lib-defence/fox-talking-points trotted out by ryan..

        ..have driven me to pandora for those hours..

        ..in fact..national radio is close to losing me..

        ..i will try breakfast again when the new combo starts..

        ..but i haven’t been able to listen to mercep..

        ..and with both ryan and mora..

        ..i will have a listen as to what they are doing..

        ..and less and less..are they keeping me there..

        ..and that panel-discourse has..most days..

        ..just gone from merely bad/simplistic/relentlessly far-rightwing..

        ..to almost cartoonish..

        ..it is all so tired/cliched/well-worn/endlessly-repeated..

        ..you could almost have a drinking-game..

        ..guessing the exact words of the nominated panelists’ answers..

        ..phillip ure..

        • bad12 3.2.1.1

          Phillip, totally agree, i tune most of Ryan out where it becomes simply background noise, which is a pity because on the odd ocassion that there is something of interest being talked about i miss half of it,

          Lolz, i have taken to doing silent penance all afternoon when Mora is on…

          • Chooky 3.2.1.1.1

            i turn off Mora but listen to Ryan

            • greywarbler 3.2.1.1.1.1

              From the Herald link
              * Geoff Robinson retiring from Morning Report, to be replaced by Guyon Espiner.

              * Simon Mercep moving to Afternoons show. Current host Jim Mora joins Checkpoint with Mary Wilson.

              * Susie Ferguson tipped to join Espiner on Morning Report.

              I haven’t seen Guy Espiner lately. What do others know about him, his approach, and his leanings?

              I have heard Susie Ferguson. Was it her that was critical of the Maori protests spoiling the Waitangi Day commemorations?

              I don’t know why you bad12 are so hot against Ryan. We can’t have a pure news radio station. You are overlooking the fact that she has the sort of wide knowledge needed to interview the world, and is interested in so much, and the ability to sound pleasant and speak clearly for hours. She can and does ask hard questions and not that noticeably centre right, and is far superior to Jim Mora in this.

              As for Checkpoint, Mary Wilson does it well and works her life around it. Going to those very early mornings, might have been a bridge too far. I wonder if she was asked?

              And I can’t imagine that Mora will add anything that improves the output from that slot. The other way. He is good with people, chat about locations, interesting people, and appreciated for his support for musicians. Can’t he have an hour doing that in the afternoons, and perhaps a piece on Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Then he could get some work on commercial radio to bring his hours up.

              • bad12

                Greywarbler,ok then seeing as i have not been specific i will do so, my main complaint regarding Ryan, besides the ‘candyfloss’ which seems to be the hallmark of Her show is that on a number of occasions when discussing political matters of the day,(not with Hooton and Williams), there has been blah blah about the issue,

                Then, we get a statement from Ryan that X National Government Minister was invited to speak to the issue but refused,

                End result, the issue is not further discussed which leaves Ryan as the ‘enabler’ of the National Government’s killing of issues that either their Ministers cannot stand up to scrutiny over and/or are of an embarrassing nature to the present Government,

                My view is that Ryan should have simply invited opposition MP’s to also discuss the issue and if the National Government Ministers still refuse to front tough on them,

                To be fair perhaps i am only looking at the symptoms and it may now be that stations policy that if the relevant Government Minister declines to appear then the issue is allowed to die…

                • greywarbler

                  Good point Bad12 I noticed that bit about them – the NACTs not turning up – so we’ll go onto the next item.

                  I agree they should have them both lined up. And go on with the one that is left. That would make the shy ones more inclined to find the time!

                  I wish you would write that down and respectfully send it to Radionz pointing out that you are a politics junkie and a connosieur of interviews and think this would be the appropriate measure to ensure that the subject gets aired in a timely fashion. And don’t tell me to do it as I do write the odd email suggestion myself, can’t always be at it.

            • veutoviper 3.2.1.1.1.2

              For you other anti-Mora people, I fell over laughing at this Twitter thread by Giovanni Tiso yesterday re Mora (hope the link works as I am only just coming to grips with Twitter)

              https://twitter.com/gtiso/status/433039033304772608

              PS – you have to click on the link in the comment re Rachel’s comment to see it. IT was “Burn the house down”.
              Says it all!

            • Tim 3.2.1.1.1.3

              Unfortunately Ryan is a ’3rd Wayer’ thru’ and thru’ . It’s often a trendy leftie’s way of coming across as ‘fair and balanced’. (Shades of Rosemary McLeod). Ryan, I suspect (along with producer) is not above recommending spots for mates and accomplices.
              Politically – she’s becoming really tiresome – never forgetting to mention, on occasion, her time in ‘the Gallery’ – as if that were some badge of honour.
              She’s obviously managed to negotiate very generous leave entitlements – I only wish it was permanent so that the usual locum (Lyn Freeman) could take over – except that would take her away from “Standing Room Only”

              • @ tim..

                ..aye..freeman is also ‘good’

                ..she is mistress of the the use of ‘the silence’..

                ..is quite relaxed about using a mini-sound vaccuum to spur the interviewer to reveal/say more..

                ..unlike ryan..who seems to sit there waiting for her opportunity to interrupt..

                ..freeman lets interview subjects say/finish what they are trying to say..

                ..it is a skill that is rare amongst interviewers..

                ..and i listen to nine-to-noon..if freeman is relieving..

                ..phillip ure..

          • phillip ure 3.2.1.1.2

            @ bad..

            ..end yr ‘silent-penance’..

            ..go seek pandora/spotify..

            ..it’s free..

            ..and to my mind the biggest buzz from these online radio streams (that you choose/tweak at will..and simple as to set up..even i could do it..)..

            ..you rediscover the delights of/from finding music that you really dig..

            ..that you didn’t know existed..

            ..and that is pretty cool..

            ..(bless those little algorithms..!..eh..?..)

            ..another great feature of these streams..(i have 35 different genre-streams..that i have on shuffle..)…is that there is a thumbs-down button on yr screen..

            ..so..should a song play you don’t like..you can down-thumb it..

            ..and the next song will then start..

            ..and..(once again..those clever algorithms)..that track will never play again on yr stream..

            ..how cool is that..?..eh..?

            phillip ure..

            .

        • Chooky 3.2.1.2

          phillip ure….”the relentless neo-lib-defence/fox-talking-points trotted out by ryan”

          …um no you are wrong!!!!

          ….interviewers can not simply do a doctrinaire party political broadcast

          ….interviewers have to ask questions from the other side…… and the Neo Lib side… as that is most predominant ‘other side’ ( devil side) in society under NACT

          … interviewers have to ask questions from the opposing point of view …..particularly the side they dont agree with personally…..in order to elicit the information for the listener….who then makes up their own mind.

          ……listen carefully to Katherine Ryan’s programme and you pick up a lot of useful information

          …as regards Matthew Hooton(right) versus (left)Mike Williams( which is no real ‘versus’ at all)….there does need to be a stronger voice articulating the Left viewpoint….a Hone Harawira or Jim Anderton or Sue Bradford or Jane Kelsey for example

          ….that said, I quite like Mike Williams as a soft left liberal

          • phillip ure 3.2.1.2.1

            @ chooky..

            ..i fully understand the oppositional-interview…

            ..but ryan lacks subtlety using that..(and the fox-talking-points are a step too far..)

            ..and ryan also has a problem letting interviews take on their own lives..and maybe going in directions not predicted by the question-list..

            ..(something hill is the mistress of..)

            ..and a conversation/interview will be getting really interesting..

            ..and ryan will miss all those signals..

            ..and will just blunder on in with her next prepared-question/fox news talking-point..

            ..and i like yr bradford/kelsey call..

            ..and totally disagree with you re williams..

            ..the man is drenched/soaked in hubris..

            ..phillip ure..

            • Chooky 3.2.1.2.1.1

              Kathryn Ryan is a very good interviewer…very subtle and allows her interviewees to speak freely in a warm environment

              like Kim Hill also …different interview style…more confrontational but great

              ….in the end no one radio person can satisfy all listeners…..and in the end I even came to appreciate Jim Mora’s style…even although he is a tad too conservative and middle of the road for my tastes

              • Tim

                Christ! – I hope you’re not putting Ryan in the same category as Hill are you?
                Whilst I agree Ryan “allows her interviewees to speak freely in a warm environment”, that environment is often very warm and cosy to some, whilst not others.
                You should go back (way way back) over some of those “From the Right, and From the not-so-Right” spots and do a content analysis some time. It’s only when a Hooter throws a complete hissy fit does she pull it up and allow a “not-so-Right” to get a word in edgeways or anyways.
                But ……. no doubt she’ll be a future candidate for an ONZ for services to narrowcasting.
                You don’t happen to know her do you Chooky? It’s just that I’m surprised at your appraisal of her.

                • greywarbler

                  Tim
                  You make some points I agree with. But I wonder are you an armchair interviewer? Or perhaps you think she is not as good as she should be after all her time in the job.

                  But the political pair – which goes pear-shaped for me – I think that she sees her role as to move through the topics set for the day, and not to be interfering, to be in the background. I think that is why she lets them go, they are to be free to discuss and she stops them when they go too long or get over-heated!

                • Chooky

                  no i dont know her…and i dont know Kim Hill…and i dont know anybody …i live far ,far away across many hills and mountains ….us chooks only know chooks

                  ….if you listen to Ryan’s programme you can hear some pretty interesting and occasionally very radical stuff…..at least as radical and thought provoking as Kim Hill…(.i am not talking about Hooton versus Williams…she just lets Hooton run at the mouth….and I have to say i like listening to Possum because he gives you an idea how he and the Right are spinning ….but he does need a sharper Left opponent … maybe Jane Kelsey or Sue Bradford or Jim Anderton? ( dont know that you can blame Ryan for Williams…maybe she didnt choose him )

                  • Tim

                    Chooky – I agree her interviewing skills aren’t too shabby and I find her guests interesting – RIGHT up until the time politics become involved.

                    E.G. – very interesting stuff on caving (for example) recently, OR her dealing with the ‘Countdown’ issssyooo.

                    It’s just that her ’3rd way ‘bent’ (aka prejudice) begins to show when politics are involved.
                    I think (as far as I can work out, I’m perhaps 2 or 3 degrees removed). NOT bloody far enough.

                    I’m just really tired of our so called ‘MSM’ generally – which with a few exceptions is increasingly a band of hacks who’ve engineered a certain comfort zone that no longer keeps them on their toes and doesn’t do much for what we expect. PSB should, by its very nature, challenge the status quo, investigate, AND take risks – whether it’s in news and current affairs, the arts, or in providing educational material.
                    RNZ does quite a good job on weekends – weekDAYS its become trite/hackneyed/boring/comfortable.
                    I’m sorry, but her (Rinny RyRy) ‘space’ in the media has come about by what we would once have called an ‘old boy network’ which has allowed her a very generous position in public service broadcasting, AND which is also increasingly letting old boys to roll out their spin. (Sorry Geoff R – but same shit different stink with Yawning Report too)

                    I’m somewhat encouraged, and SURPRISED at recent changes (long overdue) at RNZ btw – they leave ninetonoon unaffected – but I suspect that’s Stage 2.

                    The BBC of course is going through much of the same. Unfortunately we’re slightly worse off in that we only have ONE PSB radio network and nothing on TV (aside from Maori TV with which I had some involvement before it went to air)
                    Funding is of course an issue.
                    But …..
                    we should have
                    …. a news and current affairs network along with programmes of general interest
                    —- Concert FM delivering more than it does
                    …… something LIKE ‘the Wireless” delivering what it does over the airwaves along with NZ and indigenous music
                    AT THE VERY LEAST.

                    Same with TV
                    ….. TVNZ7 plus more over more than 1 PSB network and NOT simply Maori TV – as good as it is (and btw – TVNZ could get some ‘learnings’ (:p) from the way it manages to deliver on the size of its budget.
                    BUT…..
                    ….. when was the last time you saw the NZSO, or the NZ Opera or Ballet on Air (TV), OR NZ bands, and up and coming musicians and artists being represented – given live airtime, OR even a roundup of news headlines from our P.I. neighbours (given Auckland’s demographic), OR local/regional news and info other than that provided by (say SIT).AND I mean on Free-to-Air.

                    I’m getting side-tracked I know – but I sincerely hope when there is a change of gubbamint, and a wee way down the track, those occupying those comfy little pozzies don’t feign surprise when they get necked. Flogging off publicly funded intellectual property (for example) for pay TV profit (e.g. Heartland); allowing monopolistic and anti-competitive broadcast behaviour…. (actually very EASILY fixed)

                    anyway …. change is in the queue and I’m hoping it becomes a priority. The ‘in crowd’ aren’t going to be too happy – but fuck ‘em – the medium exists for the public and NOT as a platform for taking various egos for a walk.

                    • Chooky

                      @ Tim…I think i agree with you wholeheartedly….the media could be so much, much, more than it is….and therefore the populace could be lifted to new levels

                      ..i think you should write a post on it

                      …i guess i gave up on tv.long ago ..generally watch videos/tv drama series from videos/documentaries/music from video …i dont even watch tv news …so i dont get angry about tv any more ( i do watch tv at election times however)

                      ….as regards radio…K Ryan, Kim Hill, Chris Laidlaw , Morning Report, mid-day news, Checkpoint and nothing else

                      …K.Ryan is not too bad…she walks a fine line…..eg.from one of her interviews I learned that Goldman Sachs was reviewing /evaluating Kiwi Bank…..this was well before it was discussed on this site ( in fact i brought it up here, because I wanted to know what other’s knew about it ….and they didnt)….. there are a lot of gems underneath the easy listening patina of nine to noon…and I dont think K.Ryan is at all conservative.

    • Tracey 3.3

      Fascinating to do such restructuring in an election year.

      Am reading Hager’s Hollow Men” again.

      He has some interesting evidence of the right’s attitutde toward the media. It’s not a conspiracy to suspect manipulation. Admittedly Hager never suggests (so far that I can recall) that media were complicit in it per se. Obviously Joyce’s networks in private radio would be large.

      “In my book The Hollow Men, when the ACT Party campaign manager Brian Nicolle was privately coordinating a leadership coup for Don Brash within the National Party, he identified private radio as especially sympathetic to the right. “We need to target key talkback hosts in [Newstalk] ZB and [Radio] Pacific,” he wrote to Brash, “there are plenty sympathetic.” The plan was to “produce some common lines that become the ‘mantra’ on your journey to become leader of National and the country” (p. 47)”

      • phillip ure 3.3.1

        @ tracey..+ 1..

        ..there is also the fact that the right media help each other/work in unison..

        ..whereas the left-media that does exist..

        ..largely..is so shit at acknowledging each others’ work/efforts..

        ..eh..?

        ..that is getting a little better..but not much..

        ..phillip ure..

    • Rodel 3.4

      I like the diverse styles of Kathryn, Kim, Jim, Brian and Mary and the diverse content and am even getting used to Simon’s feverish style. Much better than the shock dicks on commercial (retard) radio, and Paul Henry Z z z z z z yawn!
      Don’t think I’d like to be married to Mary and her interrogations though..she’s frightening.

  4. Chooky 4

    David Cunliffe good on National Radio this morning….sounded strong and confident!

    ….talking about Charter Schools receiving a hell of a lot more money than State Schools of equivalent size or larger

    ….and why all the closures of small State Schools( because they cost too much or were inefficient) to be replaced by small Charter Schools?….which will end up poaching from neighbouring State Schools….causing more decline in State Schools..(.that was the gist I think)

    • bad12 4.1

      Yes a good point from David Cunliffe this morning, Charter schools $40,000 per pupil per year, State schools $7000 per pupil per year,

      National/ACT robbing the public purse to splash out largesse on the Political Sideshow of Charter schools…

      • Chooky 4.1.1

        …not an innocent political sideshow either….but a deliberate piece of social engineering designed ultimately to undermine State secular free high quality education …..and in the end subvert New Zealand democracy

        ….cunning plan by Neo Lib Capitalists originating in USA to privatise NZ education

        • bad12 4.1.1.1

          Can’t disagree with you there, the other point of note is that education being heavily unionized is simply a target for Tories,

          But as you say the wider plan is to insert the ‘private sector’ as ticket clippers in some way shape or form into all aspects of the Governments ‘spend’, the obvious result of that is taxpayers will pay more to receive less…

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2

          cunning plan by Neo Lib Capitalists originating in USA to privatise NZ education return us to feudalism.

          FTFY

  5. tricledrown 5

    Ad ignorance is bliss .
    Some people have highly addictive personalities.
    With multipule addictions like Seymore Hoffman.
    These personality types tend to be able to get rid of one addiction only to be taken over by other addictions.
    Money addiction ie hoarding money can be an addiction never satisfied with how much you have.
    In my work helping with fostering children and helping street children parental multipule addictions are very common are virtually impossible to sort out.

    • @..tricledown..

      ..aye..

      ..many narcotics users turn to alcohol when/if they kick the junk..

      ..(and debatable which is worse..)

      ..i myself have been addicted to tobacco/alcohol/heroin/cocaine/mandrax/downers/crack-cocaine/animal-flesh/fat/bye-products..(‘jonesing’ for cheese..?..anyone..?..)..

      ..i am currently a non-user of all the above..

      (and am fast becoming addicted to sit-ups etc..perhaps the healthiest of all the other addiction-options on offer..i feel..)

      ..but i also have to say that of all the above..

      ..that the only one i still have to maintain vigilance/personal-dialogue/arguments about..

      ..is heroin..

      ..(the thought of a cocaine-bender just makes me feel like a cup of tea and a wee lie-down..

      ..it’s a very ‘tiring’ drug..that one..

      ..and crack-cocaine..?..whoar..!..the most scary/obsessive of all of them..)

      ..and of course..all those reading this who ‘jones’ for any of the above..

      ..(just sallivate at the thought of that cold beer..or six..eh..?..

      ..or a cheesy-whatever..?..)

      ..all those people are in denial about their current health/life-threatening addictions..

      ..so really..

      ..who reading this is not addicted to multiples of the above..?

      ..phillip ure..

      • Tim 5.1.1

        Careful Phil! I mean switching bad addictions for good ones is not necessarily a bad thing, but just be careful that at anytime it can jump up and bite you in the bum – that’s if a tumor or cancer doesn’t get you first.
        I’m just glad you didn’t find religion – altho’ if that works for you, all good too!
        Big Huey

  6. miravox 6

    High voter turn-out may increase votes for the right

    The traditional non-vote in Europe is as likely to benefit the radical right as the centre-left. This analysis of Norway’s election suggests the radical right message resonates with the working class.

    Similarly in Austria the young voted far right in big numbers in the 2013 election.

    The centre-left can’t rely on pulling these traditional non-voters. I guess there are two options – ignore the non-voters – hope they stay at home and try to grab more of the centre (the Shearer option), or head further to the left to create a more radical message that resonates a least as much as that of the far right. Such as the radical left in Greece.

    Obviously NZ has its unique make-up, but the voter dissatisfaction with the status quo is similar. National’s Waitangi whistles can also be interpreted as a grab for the traditional working class non-voter, imo.

    • just saying 6.1

      Exactly. Nothing short of a real alternative is ever going to work for people who are most cynical about the status quo.

      Look at the working class support for the tea-party. It may be a case of turkeys supporting an early christmas, but at least it’s not supporting more of exactly the same bullshit. “Deer hunting with Jesus – dispatches from America’s Class War” is well worth a read, imo.

  7. Enough is Enough 7

    More Bullshit spin from the MSM.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11200232

    How do we counter this rubbish being printed ona a daily basis.

    • captain hook 7.1

      start your own broadsheet.
      look no further than ‘The Clinic’ from Chile for inspiration and get right to it!

    • A.Ziffel 7.2

      Daily basis? The Salvation Army’s annual ‘state of the nation’ report?

      Are you objecting to the report itself or the Heralds’s presentation of it?

    • Draco T Bastard 7.3

      Average household debt fell slightly from 2008 to 2011, but has increased again in the past two years.

      And that would be the reason for the “improving” economy – more debt means more money and thus more spending. Obviously this is just as sustainable as it was before the GFC and so we can expect another crash sometime in the future driven by the private banks reckless lending and which we will have to bailout once again.

      The “average wage” is usually said to be almost $1100 a week, or $57,000 a year, but this year the Salvation Army says the best figure to use is the average for employees only, excluding employers and the self-employed.

      No, the best one to use is the median income which was, according to StatsNZ, $844 (salary and wage earners) and $575 from all sources.

      The headline is misleading – with almost everything getting a C rating or less about the best that could be said was that things were staying about the same – maybe.

  8. ianmac 8

    My comments re the Paul Henry Show and the interview with Dean Barker (I put it on the wrong post) is now up online Herald anyway.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11200293

    • ianmac 9.1

      A bit disturbing grumpy. I wonder how much the super multinationals restrict our NZ democracy. Or the big Banks for that matter.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        Interesting that the author (deliberately or inadvertently) picked the “Five Eyes” members.

        • grumpy 9.1.1.1

          Looks like a pretty even handed approach. Note he also covers things like international trade agreements etc.
          I have ordered my copy.

        • Olwyn 9.1.1.2

          The book is published by McGill University, so the author is quite likely to be Canadian. If so his focus on the five eyes countries is not surprising.

    • tracey 9.2

      ” five of the world’s oldest democracies – the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. – See more at: http://www.mqup.ca/democracy-in-decline-products-9780773543508.php#sthash.6Ro4jrh4.dpuf

      Which just goes to show how young democracy is, and how short a time, if any, it has actually involved genuine freedom.

      • Bill 9.2.1

        Which just goes to show how young democracy is, and how short a time, if any, it has actually involved genuine freedom.

        Or more accurately….it shows how young the governance structures we use are and yet they have routinely descended into overt authoritarianism. (1930s Germany, Chile 1970s, Spain 1930s…a list as long as a toilet roll if we were to exhaustive. And then those wonderful little ‘markers’, such as the Red Scares of the early 1900s and the 50s in the USA, tanks on Scottish streets post WWI, 50s lockout in NZ….basically another list as long as a toilet roll )

        edit – I totally misread your comment, aye? Oh well, as a short illustrative list to underscore your point then ;-)

        • McFlock 9.2.1.1

          whoa – Germany, yeah maybe. Chile? Outright coup d’etat that destroyed the democratic governance structures. Spain I’d need to look into to see if Franco got elected before letting loose with his army.

    • tracey 9.3

      Social and political decisions, Allan argues, must be based on counting every adult in a nation state as equal . – See more at: http://www.mqup.ca/democracy-in-decline-products-9780773543508.php#sthash.6Ro4jrh4.dpuf

      This is why privately nats and their supporters pretend they are joking when they say a dictatorship is much more efficient than a democraccy.

      We saw a bit of it in Henry’s patronisingly elitist comment about dumb people not being aallowed to votes. Funny thing is NACT supporters assume it could never include them.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4

      Looks like an interesting book – asked Auckland Libraries to get it.

  9. adam 10

    Found this – thought is was good

    Be warned this clip is not-for-the-pc inclined.

    https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=404516989568534

    • ianmac 10.1

      Brings the realities of fanciful ideologies back to earth eh?

    • just saying 10.2

      What’s politically incorrect about that?

      I think you are getting ‘not PC’ mixed up with ‘Nor Safe For Work’

      Enjoyed it.

  10. greywarbler 11

    I heard the Salvation Army spokesperson speaking on child poverty this morning. When they speak they should hone in on comments from pollies and point out the woolliness of the comment, and then give the facts about the poor conditions they want addressed by the pollies. What a contrast that would be woolly PR puff and gritty reality and a mention of a success already achieved that needs to be replicated. They can even talk about real people as long as they remain anonymous and are not identifiable.

    After Poorer Benefit’s little puff piece about NZ being one of best and most generous in the world for welfare, and far better than most of the world, he could have said ‘Which parts of the world are those exactly?’
    And ‘I can’t agree with that on the information that I have.’

    This morning he just made the general comment, correctly, that it is not the amount of money that is given, it is what you can buy with it. But there were too many indirect comments that could have fitted into a ‘blame the beneficiary for bad management’, if that was the attitude of the listener.

    • fender 11.1

      Was a good interview

      From Scoop : “But The Salvation Army remains deeply concerned at the lack of progress in reducing child poverty, family violence, the harmful use of alcohol, and the failure to address criminal re-offending and serious crime.”

      • greywarbler 11.1.1

        I don’t think the radio interview came up with enough. There has to be more than just a constant repetition of – looking at the ‘underlying causes of poverty’ and talking about child abuse.

        The bigoted go straight to – ahha that’s all those feckless breeders having babies when they can’t make enough effort to get a job so they take the easy way out and get pregnant, and then can’t do a decent job of that and it ends in child abuse from their latest boyfriend, and they are incapable of getting out of poverty because of their own slackness and then they get into fights and fall out with their boyfriends and then there is domestic violence.

        The worth and value of most female beneficiaries never gets recognised also the fact that so much opportunity is withheld from them, which would change much of the above if offered.

        These would be largely polytechnic courses or the like where they could learn with their children in a playgroup in the room. Studying NCEA units in helpful stuff, then later the former training incentives where they either learn, or maintain their useful employment skills ie word processing, computer program use, phone and reception communication, and trade skills, and they would gain more benefit with each new NCEA unit.

        Helping in a practical way with transport – having a small bus doing a circuit picking up mothers and children to go to class and returning them. Or having a large taxi with a contract to do it. Bringing in medical checks for the family while training.

        The emphasis would be to lift the self-expectations, the skills, the life training, and limit the loneliness and the isolation and drudgery of poverty with little joy and hope, that can result in a peer group of people with no ideas on how to better that.

        There needs to be an emphasis on loss of potential to society, on the way these women would achieve all the things society wants from them, if given the assistance while their children were small and to find the steps to volunteer or part-time work, with income top-ups.

        • RedBaronCV 11.1.1.1

          The bulk of them have been in relationships for some years, are older, had the children in those relationships and have then been left holding all the responsibility for both parents. I don’t know that you can assume they are undereducated or less able and it may be patronising to do so.

          Given the workload that many carry, the amount of money they provide for their children’s needs-most, the successful relationships they have with their families, the lack of any serious criminal offending (ACT & Nact MP’s provide more criminals % wise) and lack of addictions, they are in fact among the most successful adults in our society.

          The basic problem is that they are trying to do what two parents do, face highly conflicting objectives (work but don’t leave the kids home alone), while being harried by the welfare. None of this of course applies to the adult who dodges their responsibilities and their must be a good case for turning WINZ loose on them..

          • RedBaronCV 11.1.1.1.1

            Or we could just give them a bit more money and stop making their choices for them. Most of them were competent adults before they became single parents and they didn’t lose that overnight.

  11. amirite 12

    This article about charter schools by Pat Booth should be emailed to all Right Wing MPs, especially to the dirty rat Banksie, Hekia and ShonKey:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/local-blogs/off-pat/9703915/Whos-done-the-homework

  12. greywarbler 13

    The British police have apparently adopted or trialled body cameras and have referred to domestic incidents as where they are useful. NZ police are thinking of them too. If the economy and sharing of the wealth of our nation more fairly, does not improve, there will be more domestic incidents as people have to carve out a lesser sort of life from the unpromising hard-faced society that encloses them.

    It could happen, if the country is going to slide further into increased poverty and under-privilege, that some areas will undertake to police themselves. This was the case in the poor area of Naples which Thomas Belmonte studied. And also Harlem in New York. Taxis would not go there.

    A band of men who are under contract to police for the state, and if that state has no concept of service to all the people, will be people who become a burden and source of anguish and anxiety to those people as they operate. Their interest will be mainly in serving the wealthy, and they will be biased towards property protection (as I understand they already are). The poor people may well find a way to effectively bar them from some suburban enclaves, which has probably happened already with gangs to some extent.

    Quick thinking for self-preservation? The man in control of hang-gliders’ safety at a departure point in Canada, when he saw his last ‘pilot’ plummet, swallowed his video memory card! She fell 300 metres because he did not ensure she was properly shackled, and he did not find that because he did not do a safety check before flight. It might be that anyone embarking on some hazardous activity where a small company has great responsibility, should say ‘what are the safety check practices you carry out’ and then ensure each one has been done.

  13. greywarbler 14

    Over 200,000 signatures for the Today we fight back effort.

  14. logie97 15

    Degrees of bratwoorst ne c’est pas?

    Judith Collins called Metira Turei a “sensitive wee sausage” over her reaction to the clothing issue.

    Yesterday I thought Collins appeared more as a “very angry snarler” when asked by journalists about the opposition’s discussions with KDC.

    • greywarbler 15.1

      +1 :grin:
      Perhaps sausages (and pies) coming to the fore in NZs minds says something about how entwined they are into our psyche.

      Could have a scoring system as to who deserves the most bad marks, with sausages or pies denoting different classes of transgression. ‘That was a cream pie’ winner, or definitely a Double Brat-worst for that pollie’. We could get quite inventive with the fillings too and make it a discriminating feast of insults.

    • Chooky 15.2

      lol

  15. Draco T Bastard 16

    Economists with hurt feelings

    Readers will experience a close encounter with the reality-defying attitude and arrogance of mainstream macroeconomics.

    It seems that some macro-economists are upset that the BS that they’re peddling isn’t being taken as gospel any more.

    • greywarbler 16.1

      but it seems to me that, rather than making a trade-off between realism and tractability, modern macroeconomics has simply made an a priori decision that coordination problems are not a relevant macroeconomic concern.

      As I read through this link from DTB, I thank God that I was able to take some late-in-life university papers which brought my reading ability to a higher level so that a collection of multi-syllable words in a discussion about the abstruse argument that is economics, did not immediately set me running to the backyard with a crushing sense of inferiority and redundancy. Instead I am sitting still typing this at the computer. But my ability has now improved to the extent that I believe that I am justified in feeling irritability.

      As I read more about economics I begin to understand the mind of man is very good at working in the abstract which is ‘so’ economics. You understand this when reading about one who measured the circumference of the planet in 276BC, about. Economics was something they ate for breakfast.

      Some of them:
      Eratosthenes of Cyrene (Ancient Greek: Ἐρατοσθένης, IPA: [eratostʰénɛːs]; English /ɛrəˈtɒsθəniːz/; c. 276 BC[1] – c. 195/194 BC[2]) was a Greek mathematician, geographer, poet, astronomer, and music theorist.
      He is best known for being the first person to calculate the circumference of the earth, which he did by applying a measuring system using stades, or the length of stadiums during that time period.
      (So he knew about stadiums and can be said to be the father of Dunedin’s Forsyth Barr, what an eminent patron.)

      And:
      Thales (624-547 B.C., Ionian) was a Greek philosopher who traveled widely in Mesopotamia and Egypt, and brought astronomical records from these cultures back to Greece. He believed that the Earth is a disk floating on an endless ocean. Legend has it that he correctly predicted a solar eclipse in the year 585 B.C.
      (This idea has been shamelessly boot-legged by Terry Pratchett, but it is possible that Thales connections will soon be filing for an intellectual property infringement.)

      There was -
      Omar Khayyam (1048-1131, Persian) was a great scientist, philosopher, and poet. He compiled many astronomical tables and performed a reformation of the calendar which was more accurate than the Julian and came close to the Gregorian. An amazing feat was his calculation of the year to be 365.24219858156 days long, which is accurate to the sixth decimal place!
      (He set an early record which still stands proud today even if we have invented another few numbers!)

      • McFlock 16.1.1

        Hmm.
        So if the stade was a measurement of length, did Eratosthenes have an economic unit based on the cost vs benefits of a stadium? Because if we extrapolate from the dunedin FoBar stadium, it might explain why macroeconomics is so fucked. :)

        • greywarbler 16.1.1.1

          McFlock
          You’re brilliant, masterly, showy….

        • Ennui 16.1.1.2

          It might be more chicken and egg…..maybe the economists knew about the Eratosthane stadium cost v benefit unit, and allowed the whole thing to go ahead knowing that because they had never been right about anything, well it did not really matter. Priests are after all nothing unless seen and heard. The rest is gullible faith.

          • McFlock 16.1.1.2.1

            re: dunedin stadium, it just looked to me like one or two councilors were after a nice piece of the pi…

    • tracey 16.2

      it is by dr Mapp and he peddles it here whenever he can.

    • Flip 16.3

      @DTB
      Never fear the evangelists will be out in force if there is a whiff of apostasy. See what happens when the Greens dare to challenge economic orthodoxy even when evidence and reason contradict orthodoxy.

  16. Penny Bright 17

    (Forwarded in the public interest – there are a number of tenants in Tamaki who are currently facing 90 day eviction notices):
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    HOUSING AND PROPERTY ISSUES FACING TAMAKI

    NZ FIRST and MOUNTAINSIDE FM invites you to hear

    NZ FIRST MP Denis O’Rouke, Spokesperson for Housing

    discuss the housing issues, including the real concerns of the property owners and tenants of Tamaki including the state house sell off.

    * THE SOCIAL HOUSING REFORM ( Affects all tenants).

    * HOUSING NZ WITHIN THE COMMUNITY

    * EFFECT OF PRIVATE PROPERTY VALUES

    THIS SATURDAY, 15 FEBRUARY

    11am – 1pm

    Glen Innes Primary School

    40 East View Rd Glenn Innes

    Enquiries: Mountainside FM (09) 528 5616 or 0274 582 099

    ________________________________________________________________________________

    (Forwarded in the public interest).

  17. q-time commentary..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/new-zealand-parliament-list-of-questions-for-oral-answer-wednesday-12-february-2014/

    (excerpt..)

    “….bennett does ‘not know’ how many working-families are in poverty..(ed:..seriously..?..w.t.f.is her brief..?..if not to know basic facts such as that..?.)

    ..ardern notes at the current rate it would take 160 yrs to fix poverty..

    ..bennett is reduced to babbling serial-cliches..”

    phillip ure

  18. joe90 19

    I reckon the author’s right.

    The system is not fixable because it is not broken. It is working, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, to give the insiders their royal prerogatives, and to shove the regulations, the laws, and the debt up the asses of everyone else.

    Burn it to the ground.

    Burn it to the ground.

    Burn it to the ground.

    Merry Christmas.

    http://www.popehat.com/2013/12/23/burn-the-fucking-system-to-the-ground/

  19. Ad 20

    Shane Jones in the House gets Labour on side with the farmers for the first time since SMPs:

    “It’s the Countdown shakedown”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11200838

    • greywarbler 20.1

      Shane Jones has earned his parliamentary salary for the year by bringing up the Oz supermarket debacle in Parliament. That is a very informative piece from nz Herald Ad, and in the little voice bite from Key was illuminating.

      He thinks that the matter should actually be regarded as an Australasian one. This is our PM. And he doesn’t really care if we are being shafted by Australia!!!! Have a listen to this pantwaist.

  20. karol 21

    Stuart Hall left wing cultural theorist – thought to have coined the term “Thatcherism” – died on the 10th UK time, 82 years.

    Not keen on Ed Miliband. Critiques of the media and “race”; and on moral panics and “race”..

    A founder of the New Left review – Guardian obit.

    I have alwys felt his “Great Moving Right Sow, on Thatcherism and its impact, was a very important article.

    In the Politics of Thatcherism (1983), he insisted that the left’s traditional statism was in part responsible for creating the conditions that had allowed the Thatcherites to win ascendancy, pointing to the degree to which Thatcherism had rooted itself in authentically popular sentiment – something he believed the left had failed to do. This generated fierce controversy among those who might otherwise have been among his political allies. His conviction that Thatcherism would define the politically possible, long after Thatcher herself had departed, proved enormously prescient, providing a key to understanding the politics not only of New Labour, but also of the subsequent coalition.

  21. Tim 22

    Interesting (at least as much as “Stuff” ever is or ever can be) …..
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9723130/Looks-like-Slater-is-Keys-Peters-source

    “Oi dun heffa tell ya” says key – in response to a Jonolist’s request as to who the sauce was regarding Winnie the Poo’s visit to the KDC Manse.

    Quelle Surprise ….. Blubber boy and not – they would have us know – NOT Joi Soi Ess Boi.

    Neither is something I’d have wished a sleepy hobbit pubic to know if I were a John Koi.

    Let’s watch 3 News tonight to see how BukToofPaddy spins it! No doubt he’ll be desperate to put it in the contex of a SKLOOOSIV

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