Open mike 15/11/2013

183 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2013 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   15 November 2013 at 7:00 am

   How that “Three Strikes” law works in practice

   This is the way the world should be, according to the hypocrites and/or criminals who run the Sensible Sentencing Trust, ACT, some branches of the National Party and the ninnies and numbskulls who support them….

   http://normanfinkelstein.com/2013/what-life-is-like-if-you-make-one-wrong-move-but-dont-have-connections/
2. amirite 2

   15 November 2013 at 7:15 am

   Nanny state at its finest:

   Govt eyes live-in mentors to help welfare teens

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11157400

   Even people on home dentention aren’t under such surveillance. Great hunting ground for perverts of all kinds.
   • BM 2.1

     15 November 2013 at 7:19 am

     Good Idea.

     Most crime is caused by a very small group of people, spend a bit of money at the beginning so they stay on the correct path and the country will save millions in the long run.
     • fender 2.1.1

       15 November 2013 at 7:28 am

       Oh, so it will be a prison house for teens. Thanks for the heads up Bland Man.
     • Ron 2.1.2

       15 November 2013 at 8:03 am

       Wow so if we locked up Trader John when he arrived back in New Zealand he would not have been able to sell our assets and similar crimes against the people of New Zealand
       • Kevin Welsh 2.1.2.1

         15 November 2013 at 8:14 am

         If only we had thought of it then…
   • AsleepWhileWalking 2.2

     15 November 2013 at 7:26 am

     I see an issue with forcefully combining teens who are on welfare due to their parents having issues, and teens on welfare because they themselves became too problematic for their parents to deal with.

     Lots of opportunities for sexual abuse and other forms of exploitation and not to mention that some of these teens just don’t cope well with authority.
   • FinkleWinkle 2.3

     15 November 2013 at 7:28 am

     And where is the research that shows teens living independently go “off the rails” to the extent that the state can justify such a scheme? Seems to me that this is another shift to profit driven welfare delivery.
     • framu 2.3.1

       15 November 2013 at 7:51 am

       “another shift to profit driven welfare delivery.”

       bingo – its got nothing to do with fixing anything except a private contractors balance sheet
       • aerobubble 2.3.1.1

         15 November 2013 at 12:48 pm

         Bennett in parliament was asked about why those with intractable conditions were being asked to provide a medical certificate every three months when the Doctor has indicated nothing was going to change for 2 or even five years. Bennett of course lied, and said that didn’t happen, and well she might since its not WINZ who picks up the doctors fees.

         Its likely those on a benefit will get other illnesses and need to attend the Doctor, have prescription costs etc, and so the likelihood that such an illness happens just after they have been re-certified by their Doctor is very real. But that of course is inefficient, but its not inefficient for WINZ who unnecessarily force people to see there Doctor even if this in itself harmful and onerous.

         Now I seem to remember there being a reciprocal respect clause in WINZ manuals, that if WINZ wants efficiency gains why would they impose inefficiency rules on others. Its hypocritical, its wrong, and Bennett is lying to parliament. Bennett has never believe a sickness (or ?congenitical? condition) can last more that a year, you’d think she would have a medical professional alongside of her when she gave such statements regarding health care.
         • aerobubble 2.3.1.1.1

           15 November 2013 at 12:54 pm

           Going to the Doctor can be hazardous to ones health! People who are ill go there! Its therefore something that should not be forced into unnecessarily. Forcing citizens to see Doctors, hasn’t happened since, what the last miltrary regime….?? Its just a bad precedent to set.
   • miravox 2.4

     15 November 2013 at 7:51 am

     Every time the government feels under pressure or wants to hide something, Paula wheels out another reform that may or may not happen and it deflects the conversation.
3. weka 3

   15 November 2013 at 7:19 am

   The search function is playing up again (returning small numbers of hits from 1970)
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     15 November 2013 at 1:21 pm

     Had that yesterday – it was rather confusing.

     Also had the entire site disappear last night. All I got was a blank screen when I tried the address.
     • fender 3.1.1

       15 November 2013 at 1:25 pm

       “Also had the entire site disappear last night. All I got was a blank screen when I tried the address.”

       +1, couldn’t reach the site all evening 🙁
       • lprent 3.1.1.1

         15 November 2013 at 1:37 pm

         Yeah. It was a problem with some site coming in and battering it.

         I’ve been slowly working towards making it more resilient when I have time (still working on releases).

         Since it went down last night anyway just before 10pm due to bots (looked like a new spambot network went online this week) and failed to survive the restart twice (and I finally have a Gold release done), I took the opportunity of it being offline to put the next phase in. Finished up uncompleted at about 6am, grabbed a few hours sleep and went to work to finish the Mac version of the client software…

         Sometime this weekend or next week, I should have the last server reconfiguration to put into place. Then we will be ready for an election and capable of surviving the occasional bot storms (and do it on several hundred dollars per month).
         • fender 3.1.1.1.1

           15 November 2013 at 1:48 pm

           Many thanks for everything, including my TS addiction!
   • Rogue Trooper 3.2

     15 November 2013 at 1:42 pm

     y’all culda’ been watching Owen get dumped for being an arse on Coro. (oooh, and he wasn’t a happy builder at all).
     • weka 3.2.1

       15 November 2013 at 5:30 pm

       No tv. Coro is about the only thing I miss. I don’t even know who Owen is, it’s been too long.
4. phillip ure 4

   15 November 2013 at 7:21 am

   (i gob all over tvnz-breakfast-show..and the various entities involved..)

   http://whoar.co.nz/2013/ed-wow-excruciating-moments-in-breakfast-television-the-london-connection/

   (excerpt..)

   “..ed:..we are really spoilt for choice..in bad breakfast television..

   ..and currently – the simpering of the compere on tv3 when interviewing key caused a serious case of gastric-reflux in me..so i am avoiding their offerings..

   ..but tvnz never disappoints..”

   (cont..)

   phillip ure..
   • Tim 4.1

     15 November 2013 at 5:32 pm

     @ P Ure:
     Morning Report on Natrad is a better option than both, though also pretty lame. The thing is though, that at least (unless you have a TV in the bathroom) you can take a dump/take the kids to the beach whilst listening and feel better about it.
     Whereas the TV1 and TV3 equivalent audiences have a problem. (Whilst 3 for a half hour is OKish, there’s still the problems of having to clean up afterwards).

     Silence, or noise free/technology free time though is not a bad option. I’m sure you could probably handle the loss of seeing those gorgeous celebs masquerading as journalists for a couple of hours.
     • Tim 4.1.1

       15 November 2013 at 5:40 pm

       Of course, I don’t have these problems. I’m a bit like those John Key, Simon Bridges, Paula Bennett, “The Standard trollers: BM, KK et al’ Natty types. I don’t shit, and I don’t sweat – plus I know what’s best for you.
       I’m born to rule dontcha know. I studied Chris Finlayson, and I’m in awe! (AND I smell like a white rose – simply adorable)
     • phillip ure 4.1.2

       16 November 2013 at 6:12 am

       @ tim..both of the presenters on morning report annoy me intensely..

       ..so that isn’t an option..

       ..and i watch/flick around brekky-telly as part of the news-gathering thing i do each morn…

       ..i then dive to nat-rad to see what is happening @ nine..

       ..and then usually retreat into the music-collection..

       ..(random choice of favourites…6.8 days worth..mmm!!!..warm and tasty..!..)

       ..phillip ure..
5. AsleepWhileWalking 5

   15 November 2013 at 7:31 am

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1311/S00184/lets-be-cleverer-than-sexual-predators.htm

   The state continues to have an abysmal track record when it comes to vetting caregivers (mentors will have the same issues)
6. Sanctuary 6

   15 November 2013 at 7:38 am

   Idiot/Savant over at NRT gave Chris Trotter a big fat raspberry yesterday over his take on Jerry Mateparae’s speech to the parliamentary press gallery. Well, lo, the Herald editorial writers today has done exactly what Trotter predicted – that is, used Mateparae’s speech as part of it’s pre-emptive campaign to delegitimise a Labour/Green coalition if National is the largest party after the next election.

   Make no mistake. If given a chance, the political/business axis of the right will do everything in it’s power – up to and including trying to annull an election result with the flimiest of legal excuses – to prevent a government coming to power that threatens the neo-liberal consensus and capitalist power.
   • Paul 6.1

     15 November 2013 at 7:41 am

     And they’ve been playing war games in the South to remove a government.
     Plutocracy, not democracy is now NZ’s governing system.
     • Tat Loo (CV) 6.1.1

       15 November 2013 at 7:48 am

       Remember Whitlam.
     • Ad 6.1.2

       15 November 2013 at 8:38 am

       Remember Bainimarama
       • Rogue Trooper 6.1.2.1

         15 November 2013 at 10:59 am

         Remember the frequency Kenneth when the River runs dry. What we need is some Capability for the brown-off.
         • Ad 6.1.2.1.1

           15 November 2013 at 12:54 pm

           Would Yi-Fu Tuan support Canterbury irrigation?
           • Rogue Trooper 6.1.2.1.1.1

             15 November 2013 at 1:11 pm

             “The continuous circulation of water in the ocean, the atmosphere , and on the land is fundamental to the availability of water on the planet”.
             – The Hydrologic Cycle and the Wisdom of God

             “ From this I conclude that Humanistic Geography is neglected because it is too hard. Nevertheless, it should attract the tough-minded and the idealistic…”
           • Chooky 6.1.2.1.1.2

             15 November 2013 at 1:33 pm

             @ Ad…..Yi-Fu Tuan …the American geographer?..i would say he would be a Greenie and a good friend of the environmentalists who wish to protect the rivers and aquifers
       • Tim 6.1.2.2

         15 November 2013 at 6:24 pm

         I remember both Whitlam AND Bainimarama both – in GREAT fucking detail. The former slightly better than the latter – in fact the latter is responsible for my various comments under a p p er sudo err psy, err alias.
         I also remember my cousin ( a former spook’s warning)

         Cherr bro, snot beart race or creed or changes of gubbamint amongst perceived colonial masters, or Muff McGillicuddy’s wank, wank wankering – who hardly ever heard of the Fiji-ease/EAR NUZULL trevull destnayshun before coming to pear – but are now absolute experts, pulling strings whilst their challengers wear manufektered buzzy suits looking like sommit that came outta a British-designed ark.
         For FUCK’s bloody SAKE.

         Fiji is probably the BIGGEST reason I (personally) have lost faith in the abilities of ear S oi S, en Goi.Soi.Ess.Boi.

         Christ Almightly! No one – other than perhaps the of Michael Field (having to work under a corporate Fearfex) saw it all coming!!!! (He ekshly wrote about it in the early 00’s). And these (MFAT – snr megmint sperts) are the cnuts we’re now expected to entrust our ‘best interests’ and ‘welfare’ and ‘we-know-best’ hope to.
         Fuck me with a feather duster.
         Pardon me if I don’t have that much confdince.

         FFS!
         Smart sanctions that never ever were ….. (like political travel sanctions whilst failing to delve deeper – ANZ bank accounts filled with ill-gotten gains, Frankie boy’s history – known to NZDF/OZDF and reported to pollies, training ships where is ‘skills’ were learned;
         embouldened (after BOTH Okker and NewZill changes) by a gubba gubbs desperately trying to rub together a couple of ideas to salvage a situation, PRIMARILY of their own fucking making.

         Whilst Helen (and of course her advisors and spin doctors) might have been slightly naiive; theres’s a Key and a Muff that have ABSOLUTELY NO fucking ides (other than treats & trinkets-driven tuneties for nego-shay-shun)
   • framu 6.2

     15 November 2013 at 7:52 am

     ” trying to annull an election result with the flimiest of legal excuses”

     as far as i know theres no law requiring the biggest party to have first crack at, or demand the right to form a coalition – so that could be quite entertaining
     • Tiger Mountain 6.2.1

       15 November 2013 at 8:05 am

       It could be more about “manufacturing consent” regardless of electoral procedures, and GG Mateparae would be well used to both taking orders and doing the ruling class bidding.
       • framu 6.2.1.1

         15 November 2013 at 8:18 am

         Oh im sure thats the game plan – im more thinking that in a court it would get funny watching lawyers arguing something that there is no law for
     • idlegus 6.2.2

       15 November 2013 at 1:39 pm

       this great danish tv series shows how mmp is supposed to work, & its very good drama too. many similar parallels to nz govt too. & also the right are wrong, if they think the biggest party ‘deserves’ to form govt, in borgen the biggest party is the opposition!

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgen_%28TV_series%29
   • Lanthanide 6.3

     15 November 2013 at 9:38 am

     Sorry, but that’s pretty much the fevered imagination of a conspiracy theorist at work.
7. framu 7

   15 November 2013 at 8:01 am

   So now Stephen Joyce is opposed to increasing film industry rebates because…

   1) they are actually now subsidies
   2) the govt doesnt want to support a race to the bottom

   yet during the hobbit saga

   1) it was a rebate
   2) it was needed to keep the industry going and people employed

   WTF!?
   • BM 7.1

     15 November 2013 at 8:03 am

     Time to cut the apron strings?
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       15 November 2013 at 8:08 am

       If so then its time to cut it to the Hobbit films which are still in production?
       • Tiger Mountain 7.1.1.1

         15 November 2013 at 8:16 am

         Not our precious Hobbitses movies? Yess… cuts them too!

         The film/TV/commercial/animation industry in workers organisational terms is basically more of a rabble now than ever before with the exception of Northern Actors and some principled individuals. Tech guilds and all the rest mean little in what has been legislated into an official dependent contracting industry.

         Some otherwise sensible people I know that support all sorts of Green and left causes have serious problems viewing their own film industry with some perspective, it is every dog for its self. This is the legacy of the Hobbit Enabling Act. And now the government that removed workers rights to organise won’t assist with macro settings that it could try. If anyone in the industry (apart from John Barnett of course) votes National next time they have rocks in their heads.
     • framu 7.1.2

       15 November 2013 at 8:14 am

       time to stop being a hypocrite actually.

       When you compare the two its quite clear from his responses that the hobbit deal was ONLY about doing something for warners. If it wasnt about that, and at the time joyce really did see it as being about helping the industry then he would have a better line than a flat out reversal this time, on the same issue wouldnt he

       Im talking about how his actions and words on these two situations expose his actual motivation – not whether the film industry should get rebates or subsidies or whatever
     • weka 7.1.3

       15 November 2013 at 8:27 am

       “Time to cut the apron strings?”

       Stephen Joyce wears a pinny?
8. Colonial Viper 8

   15 November 2013 at 8:28 am

   Zero hedge puts together some good summaries and analyses of the TPPA leak.

   http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-11-13/leaked-treaty-worse-sopa-and-acta
9. Crunchtime 9

   15 November 2013 at 9:01 am

   This absolutely blew me away this morning.

   Ex-World Bank employee whistleblower reveals how the global elite rule the world.

   http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-bank-whistleblower-reveals-how-the-global-elite-rule-the-world/5353130

   ” Hudes is trying very hard to expose the corrupt financial system that the global elite are using to control the wealth of the world.”

   “A former insider at the World Bank, ex-Senior Counsel Karen Hudes, says the global financial system is dominated by a small group of corrupt, power-hungry figures centered around the privately owned U.S. Federal Reserve. The network has seized control of the media to cover up its crimes, too, she explained. In an interview with The New American, Hudes said that when she tried to blow the whistle on multiple problems at the World Bank, she was fired for her efforts. Now, along with a network of fellow whistleblowers, Hudes is determined to expose and end the corruption. And she is confident of success.

   Citing an explosive 2011 Swiss study published in the PLOS ONE journal on the “network of global corporate control,” Hudes pointed out that a small group of entities — mostly financial institutions and especially central banks — exert a massive amount of influence over the international economy from behind the scenes. “What is really going on is that the world’s resources are being dominated by this group,” she explained, adding that the “corrupt power grabbers” have managed to dominate the media as well. “They’re being allowed to do it.”

   Relevant to all of our interests, don’t you think?
   • Tracey 9.1

     15 November 2013 at 9:53 am

     How long before her mental health is questioned and similar n the media??? And she is scorned because she was sacked for doing a bad job????
   • Ad 9.2

     15 November 2013 at 1:02 pm

     Really interesting set of links within that Crunchtime, cheers

     http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html#.Ud5_NvmL3nj

     So, the super-entity may not result from conspiracy. The real question, says the Zurich team, is whether it can exert concerted political power. Perhaps there is too many to sustain collusion. More likely they will compete in the market but act together on common interests. Resisting changes to the network structure may be one such common interest.

     Remember the networks of individuals Bruce Jesson put together in “Only Their Purpose is Mad” and works prior to that? Well it’s also true on a global scale. It’s not as intentional as a hive-mind, but it’s still conscious and reflextive like an organism.

     Just reminds me to get rid of the mortgage so fast.
10. weka 10

    15 November 2013 at 9:09 am

    Chris Trotter making all sorts of apologies for Tamihere and Jackson

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2013/11/a-disturbing-precedent.html
    • Crunchtime 10.1

      15 November 2013 at 9:38 am

      My opinion of Chris Trotter sinks ever lower.

      As if “intent” is ever going to make it ok to question the dress standards and drinking habits of rape victims. Ugh.
      • weka 10.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 9:54 am

        I reread the article again. There are so many things wrong with what he has written it is hard to know where to start. I did make a rather restrained comment, will see if he replies.
      • Tracey 10.1.2

        15 November 2013 at 9:55 am

        it appears JT and WJ are victims of the ingrained misogynism of society………….
      • rhinocrates 10.1.3

        15 November 2013 at 2:12 pm

        Damn you, you stole my words.
    • Ennui 10.2

      15 November 2013 at 9:39 am

      You would say that would’nt you Weka. To Trotter charge ” Rather than korero, the left-wing social media’s first instinct was to condemn, threaten, punish and shut down”, how do you plead?
      • karol 10.2.1

        15 November 2013 at 9:51 am

        Ennui, WJ and JT’s actions were out there in public for all to see. They harassed (2 onto one) and victim blamed a woman telling her story. JT and WJ had the power in that situation. To not act pretty quickly against them would send a message in support of victim blaming, and silencing of victims.

        JT especially is a serial offender when it comes to misogyny. How much more are people supposed to put up with?
        • Tracey 10.2.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 9:58 am

          If it had been Laws I do wonder if they would have stood him down.

          However, standing up to their behaviour has sent a strong message. One question is whether the result will be to send the rape culture back under cover as it was before the roastbusters story or if society will front up to change. Sadly, not led by the Government in this regard.
          • weka 10.2.1.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 10:04 am

            “If it had been Laws I do wonder if they would have stood him down.”

            Yes, but that’s about Mediaworks not the left blogosphere. Here is what I commented on Bowalley Rd, the last bit was my response to Trotter’s ideas about racism.

            Chris, I take it from your use of quotation marks that you don’t think Tamihere and Jackson were misogynistic in that interview? Fortunately many people disagree with you, and they used their freedom of expression in, well, expressing that. I think the left blogosphere’s responses were perfectly appropriate: they saw behaviour that was unacceptable and they stepped up and did something. Kind of ironic to have you now arguing that was wrong, given the context of the rape club.

            
            Because there can be little doubt that the decision by so many businesses to withdraw their advertising from Radio Live was prompted by the implicit threat of a consumer boycott of their products if they didn’t. Bluntly, the proposition put to Radio Live amounted to: “Take these guys off the air, or, first off, we’ll hurt your advertisers; and then we’ll hurt you.”

            Has it occured to you that as part of that decision they looked at what Tamihere and Jackson actually did and decided they didn’t want their businesses associated with that in any way? It was interesting to read the initial responses from companies that pulled their advertising, compared to Countdown, who initially said it was nothing to do with them. When you read the first lot of responses from companies, they read like the people who wrote them were literate about rape culture. These weren’t responses from people merely concerned about profit lines, they were also concerned about ethics.

            As for the ‘this is really racism’ angle…

            
            What did Willie and JT see when 3 News broke the Roastbusters story? Two young brown faces. What did they hear? Middle-class Pakeha liberals baying for their blood. To what did their first thoughts turn? Rape Culture or Lynch Law?

            That might be worth looking at if it weren’t for the fact that Tamihere and Jackson are both well known for their misogynistic views and attitudes, and their support of rape culture. I’m also less inclined to take notice of your view on this, given your cultural background, than I am to listen to the voices of Mana Wahine, where Maori women have spoken out about their concern over what Tamihere and Jackson did. Did you do any research on what Maori women have said on this in the last week before you wrote your article?
            • Ennui 10.2.1.1.1.1

              15 November 2013 at 10:51 am

              Weka, Karol et al, you have answered my question admirably. QED.

              Nothing pleases me less than the prospect of having the bloggers of the “Left” having any influence over long established principles.To quote a well known story, “A little more caution from you; that is no trinket you carry.”
              • weka …

                15 November 2013 at 11:06 am

                Your principle appears to be that people are entitled to use hate speech. But what I suspect what you really mean is that people are entitled to support misogyny/rape culture but not other kinds of hatred.

                If I’ve misunderstood, that’s up to you, because your comments aren’t particularly clear.
                • Ennui …

                  15 November 2013 at 11:54 am

                  Weka, you have definitely misunderstood. Clarity comes from reading, listening, understanding, applying principles, engaging, understanding. And then formulating a response.

                  Trotters charge was ” Rather than korero, the left-wing social media’s first instinct was to condemn, threaten, punish and shut down”. I think the answer very self evident in the columns here over the last week. Conclusions are made quickly, charges laid, guilt assumed….an example is that you say to me Your principle appears to be that people are entitled to use hate speech. But what I suspect what you really mean is that people are entitled to support misogyny/rape culture but not other kinds of hatred. That is an example of a complete leap of faith, a non informed presumption, and to me quite wrong and slanderous. What right have you to tell me what I am thinking? It backs up Trotters contention on korero.

                  I have a very real fear that the ‘instincts” shown on this column will not lead to a positive result, so I blew the whistle. Rings of power should not be used, if the Left does not want to go down the same coercive authoritarian path of the Right they should not mirror their “instincts”.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    15 November 2013 at 1:31 pm

                    Rings of power should not be used, if the Left does not want to go down the same coercive authoritarian path of the Right they should not mirror their “instincts”.

                    If it is for a good end, and we find that too many NZers are being regressive (whether they are male or female), why not identify them as part of the problem to be fixed, with firmer measures and sanctions if and when needed.

                    Particularly after the release of the Roy Morgan results, it can be safely concluded that a large segment of NZ men have a serious attitude problem. Let’s simply push through clear, solid measures which show that progressive attitude and languaging is the only correct and acceptable type to have in this country.
                    • Ennui …

                      15 November 2013 at 1:59 pm

                      CV, you say, Let’s simply push through clear, solid measures which show that progressive attitude and languaging is the only correct and acceptable type to have in this country.. Let me paraphrase it…let us force people to accept our standards and language, as defined by us, other wise they are heretics….

                      Rings of power?
                    • Rogue Trooper …

                      15 November 2013 at 2:06 pm

                      emf (some iron filings).
                    • Tracey …

                      15 November 2013 at 2:25 pm

                      ennui

                      “let us force people to accept our standards and language, as defined by us, other wise they are heretics….”

                      In your world there would still be slaves and women wouldn’t vote. We can leave things as they are and continue a rape-type culture. Too bad that 1-3 females will be sexually abused we can’t send any message to a large part of society that they are part of the problem. We’ll just wait for them to come to it in their own time… meanwhile, another hour another sexual abused citizen.
                    • Tat Loo (CV) …

                      15 November 2013 at 2:32 pm

                      Ennui: btw I know it would never work, and would generate a backlash from both men and women across the country.
                  • weka …

                    15 November 2013 at 2:07 pm

                    Ennui, you may very well be right, but I have no idea because instead of clarifying what you actually meant you’ve just given me a little lecture on something.

                    btw, if you reread what I wrote, I intentionally used the words ‘appear’ and ‘suspect’ which clearly indicate that I am expressing what I heard rather than defining what you think. That left an opening for you to correct or clarify. That you failed to do so is all down to you.

                    You come into a conversation about rape culture, and cherry pick out one sentence from a much longer piece by Trotter. Then you make vague accusations towards myself and others here, but you don’t actually tell us what YOU think. I know a set up when I see one, so either clarify what the fuck you are on abotu or stop wasting my time.
                    • Ennui …

                      15 November 2013 at 4:21 pm

                      Weka, when I came into the conversation it was in response to you accusing Trotter making apologies for Tamihere and Jackson.

                      I read the article, was left unconvinced either way by Trotter, and probably more in line with yourself (which is why you leap of faith on what I was thinking was somewhat illustrative). The only part I agree with Trotter on precisely is his contention on the Lefts instincts. Hence my original question.

                      And that, is the crux of it. If your mind is subtle enough to understand, on that point bloggers of the Left confirm Trotters contention in bucket loads.

                      The implication is about means justifying ends: Trotters words condemn/threaten/punish are all coercive and authoritarian. If that is where you think the Left should be, all good. Count me out.

                      I will waste no more of my time on this, yours appears precious to you.
                    • weka …

                      15 November 2013 at 11:05 pm

                      Still no idea what you are on about Ennui. If you look at every comment you have made in this sub-thread, there are examples of implication without saying what you actually mean.

                      I’m out of patience with this kind of communicating after vto ran us all round in circles yesterday. I don’t know you well enough to know why you communicate like this, but let me just say, if you do want to have a genuine conversation with me, assume I need things spelled out.
                  • Pascal's bookie …

                    15 November 2013 at 3:01 pm

                    The problem of course, is that this:

                    ” Rather than korero, the left-wing social media’s first instinct was to condemn, threaten, punish and shut down”

                    is complete bullshit. Numerous offers were made by people to appear on JT&W’s show. the offers were rejected or ignored. On the second day, after they had given a pro forma and weak apology, they decided the conversation was over and proceeded to hit the dump button on anyone who started to talk about it.

                    It was at that point the Tiso started emailing advertisers.

                    And aside from that, there have been dozens of posts all over the place from people talking about rape culture, and what it is. They have been happening for a long time, and you can read the comment threads to see how the conversations go.

                    And beyond even that, this is simply not a slide into totalitarianism as Trotter makes out. that’s just fucking laughable. especially coming from him. this is a guy who thinks that the Crown should have used even more extra-legal means to secure convictions in the alleged terrorism case a few years back. A civil libertarian, he just plain isn’t. So for him to climb up on his high horse and start issuing grave warnings, well. It all just smacks of being part of his long running and well documented animosity to those younger, and more liberal, than he.
                    • weka …

                      15 November 2013 at 11:07 pm

                      There is also this thing of him sticking up for his friends JT and WJ, the way he is doing that makes me uncomfortable.
                • karol …

                  15 November 2013 at 2:06 pm

                  weka, I commend you on expressing well, why Trotter has got it so wrong, here and on Bowalley Road. Trotter not listening, though…

                  … because it’s all about JT & WJ. And when are JT, WJ, and Trotter going to step up for women on low incomes, beneficiaries, low paid, etc, especially Maori and Pasifika women? These women are multiply oppressed by an economic system geared for the privileged, plus (as with women across all demographics) by misogyny, domestic violence, rape culture etc.

                  But for Trotter, it’s just about working class men.
                  • weka …

                    15 November 2013 at 2:18 pm

                    Thanks karol. I may be banging my head on a brick wall there. Just waiting to see if he can stretch his mind a bit and apply his political analysis to gender. Kind of weird he’s brought ethnicity and completely ignored the reality for Maori women.
                    • Pascal's bookie …

                      15 November 2013 at 2:23 pm

                      Well done one for trying, but nah. He has Decided.
                    • rhinocrates …

                      16 November 2013 at 6:20 pm

                      Are you white, were you born before the First World War, do you wear a cheesecutter and braces, do you have a moustache? If you can answer “yes” to all of these, then Chris Trotter will passionately defend you. If not, then you’re a distraction.
              • Rogue Trooper …

                15 November 2013 at 11:25 am

                “Let him go, or I’ll have you Longshanks”.
      • miravox 10.2.2

        15 November 2013 at 9:53 am

        1. He’s not the first or the only one to be concern – he has Josie Pagani onside

        2. I think Andrew Geddis, for one, would plead ‘not guilty’ – a decent argument for both keeping them on air or not, imo, is here…
        http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/of-speech-and-its-consequences

        3. Trotter is disingenuous to to claim the campaign to take them off air is unprecedented. Consumer boycotts for political and social purposes have a long history
      • weka 10.2.3

        15 November 2013 at 10:01 am

        You would say that would’nt you Weka. To Trotter charge ” Rather than korero, the left-wing social media’s first instinct was to condemn, threaten, punish and shut down”, how do you plead?

        Firstly, I think the whole ‘on trial’ thing is both spurious, and, in this context, highly offensive to all the women who have been raped who have been denied justice legally. Think about that for a moment.

        Secondly, if it were two white men preaching race hatred on radio and harassing a Maori woman who had phoned in, would the left still be expected to engage meaningfully with the two white men, and allow them to have their say? What about if it were two men who were harassing a disabled person about their disability? Should the left korero with them on an even footing, allow them to defend their actions?

        Honestly, on what planet would you want to give more air to misogyny? The only rationale I can see is if you think that Tamihere and Jackson’s actions weren’t that bad.

        Trotter is disingenuous when he says that Tamihere and Jackson were silenced by the left blogosphere. They were silenced by their employers for bringing their employers’ business into disrepute. And good on Mediaworks for doing that.
      • framu 10.2.4

        15 November 2013 at 10:05 am

        i really only have a few points to raise on the trotter article

        1) theres more than one way to say something – if experienced people like JT and WJ cant figure out a way to say what they want that wont land them in hot water then thats not anyones fault but theirs

        2) no-ones free speech has been reduced, has there been anyone kicking in their doors and hauling them off to speech court?- No. The people who pay them either directly or indirectly have decided to take quite normal measures to express the fact that they didnt really like it – either personally or because of the general reaction. Its a money thing, not a rights thing

        3) free speech isnt a one way street – say whatever you want – but dont then demand no one challenges you or that no ones tries to win others to their side of the argument

        4) theres a vast difference between pub talk and paid talk – if people really cant see that then theres really not much hope for this thing we call free speech.

        I say all sorts of things that probably wouldnt go down that well in a client meeting – but when im at work im an agent of my employer. If i did say what im thinking sometimes, there would be consequences. But privately – well thats a different story
        • Tat Loo (CV) 10.2.4.1

          15 November 2013 at 2:28 pm

          the difference being that Willie and JT are paid to talk the way they do. As are Paul Henry, the crews on The Rock etc. They aint being paid to read the news on the BBC World Service.
          • karol 10.2.4.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 2:33 pm

            Do as many women get an equivalent platform to express their views?
            • fender 10.2.4.1.1.1

              15 November 2013 at 2:41 pm

              No, they are only allowed to read the weather….but there’s some RNZ woman who are allowed to contribute. I can’t stand the commercial radio stations these dayz…
            • Colonial Viper 10.2.4.1.1.2

              15 November 2013 at 11:14 pm

              Do as many women get an equivalent platform to express their views?

              It’s commercial radio. You want on you have to get ratings and you have to get advertisers. Starting with an outspoken profile helps. And the current style seems to be to stir the pot with trash talk and anti-PC drivel.
      • Tracey 10.2.5

        15 November 2013 at 3:32 pm

        Whereas you post with an attempted air of non-judgment yet judgment oozes from every word. Your and Trotter’s liberal use of “left” this and “left” that is misplaced and unnecessary.

        “condemn, threaten, punish and shut down” could also be examine, question, challenge and seek change through action.

        It’s not about JT and WJ and their rehabilitation or realisation it’s about sending message to women and men alike that behaviours need to change and now.
    • Tracey 10.3

      15 November 2013 at 9:39 am

      I agree that someone like Paul Henry was far from suspended but supported and praised across the nation. Michael Laws?

      I also agree that there may be some racism in this decision, both from the station and the advertisers. easier to let them go because the board and advertisers dont support their politics anyway… whereas to lose a Henry or Laws was to lose free advertising/mouthpiece for their ideological preferences?

      Freedom of speech, like any freedom, ought to be exercised prudently, especially by those with power (like radio hosts). It is not a license to inflict harm out of ignorance or ingrained social/cultural ignorance. This is not the first time JT has been misogynistic or homophobic.

      he got to speak far more freely on this topic than most victims ever will, and it had consequences. IF he had been a devil’s advocate it might have been different, but they weren’t, they were allowing perpetrators and enablers and the woefully ignorant to nod in agreement and further ingrain their appalling attitudes toward women and abuse.
11. miravox 11

    15 November 2013 at 9:33 am

    Almost unnoticed, a duck has gone
    • Ennui 11.1

      15 November 2013 at 9:42 am

      RIP another species. When will we realise we are they, and without them we are nothing, probably as extinct?
      • Tracey 11.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 9:47 am

        Some of us do but for those who chase money as the measure of success the disconnect is too big…
      • weka 11.1.2

        15 November 2013 at 10:05 am

        DOC cuts, thanks NACT.
    • ScottGN 11.2

      15 November 2013 at 9:56 am

      And the prospects for a whole lot of other birds has deteriorated.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=11157277
      • miravox 11.2.1

        15 November 2013 at 11:04 am

        Appalled that the Kea has gone onto the endangered list!
        • ianmac 11.2.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 11:22 am

          Me too. The kea is/was unique in its intelligence character and charm.
          Keas have been seen pecking at downed high country sheep so:
          “They keas must have killed the sheep. We farmers must kill the keas. Bang!”
          • Naturesong 11.2.1.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 1:44 pm

            They do harass sheep, and will peck live sheep to get at the fat deposits on the lower back.
            So it is understandable that farmers hate them.
          • miravox 11.2.1.1.2

            15 November 2013 at 8:26 pm

            Maybe DOC can get one of the corporate farmers to fund the revival of the Kea. Seems to be all the rage these days – corporate sponsors.

            I’m sure they’d love to help… no?
      • weka 11.2.2

        15 November 2013 at 2:20 pm

        Pity the Herald didn’t go into the reasons for continuing native species extinctions.
12. phillip ure 12

    15 November 2013 at 9:53 am

    (this one also applies here..especially to the apostates in this govt..)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/comedy/news/russell-brand-calls-david-cameron-a-filthy-dirty-posh-wer-8939040.html

    “..Russell Brand has called David Cameron and George Osborne “filthy – dirty – posh wankers” –

    – on fellow comedian Alan Carr’s talk show.

    Following on from the Newsnight interview in which he encouraged viewers to spark a political “revolution” and not vote –

    – the 38-year-old star has now criticised the government for being “mean and tight”.

    “If you’re always cutting benefits and being horrible –

    – it’s because you don’t know how to fuck properly” he told Carr on Chatty Man – which airs this Friday.

    “I think if your job is to look after the country – and you don’t care about the people who need it most –

    – you’re out of order –

    – and you’re a filthy – dirt – posh wanker” he argued.

    Days after the prime minister gave a speech in favour of austerity –

    – surrounded by gold-embellished furniture –

    – Brand insists that his privileged background means Cameron is unable to relate to the society he governs.

    “It’s alright if you go to Eton – and then you’re in the House of Parliament.

    It’s alright for them to say ‘oh don’t worry about gay rights – don’t worry about poor people’ –

    – because it’s not part of their lives –

    – but it’s part of our lives” said the actor and comedian..”

    phillip ure..
13. Fisiani 13

    15 November 2013 at 9:58 am

    I wonder why the latest Roy Morgan poll is not trumpeted on high here like the last few Roy Morgan polls. Perhaps because it shows that National have again risen and now rank more then Labour+ Greens. The Roy Morgan poll is the one most beloved by the Left. Sadly The Cunliffe’s honeymoon is already over.
    • karol 13.1

      15 November 2013 at 10:02 am

      It was discussed last night on open mike.
    • weka 13.2

      15 November 2013 at 10:09 am

      “Perhaps because it shows that National have again risen and now rank more then Labour+ Greens.”

      Actually when you crunch the numbers in how a govt could acutally be formed under MMP, they come out at left 61, right 61.

      And as I’m sure you well know, it’s the poll trends that count, not a single poll.
    • bad12 13.3

      15 November 2013 at 12:47 pm

      Lolz, i am sure Fisani and the rest of the Tory cheerleaders are overjoyed with the result of the latest Roy Morgan,

      After weeks of dissing Winston Peters, NZFirst and talking up Colin Craig’s Conservatives and burning up the goodwill and favors from editors and news programers across the media spectrum Slippery the Prime Minister has to sit there and watch as National rips all the support from Craig’s pot-pourri of assorted fruits and nuts,

      Craig contrary to His assertion appears to be only capable of soaking up the remnants of the ACT Party and has failed abysmally to make a dent in the support of NZFirst who in the past few months have taken a definite step to the left into State provision and ownership of a number of areas that have been taboo during the Neo-Liberal reign,

      This only leaves one question, can the opposition parties form a stable Government together, my opinion is Yes, on the major issues surrounding economy and the direction and actions of the Government within that economy there is among the three, Labour,Green,NZFirst more agreement than there is disagreement…
      • McFlock 13.3.1

        16 November 2013 at 12:55 am

        Pretty much, b12.

        Basically, lab have gotten over the leadership change bump and will now probably get get back to solid incremental improvement in the next couple of cycles. The representation issue will fizzle away (except on the sewer), and the government will still be demonstrating incompetence (or, in a new twist, actively claiming incometence like Colman did).
    • Enough is Enough 13.4

      15 November 2013 at 2:25 pm

      It is clearly out of line with all other polls and the indisputable trend that National is on its way out.

      One good poll does not make a winning elction Fis.
    • Fiddlesticks 13.5

      15 November 2013 at 7:10 pm

      Don’t sweat the small stuff. Just shows Labour cannabilising the Green vote and National maintaining its overall position.

      A simple linear forecast shows the “left” and “right” blocks holding their respective positions.

      Cunliffle doesn’t walk on water and, indeed, the party faithful are drinking urine not wine.
      • bad12 13.5.1

        15 November 2013 at 11:51 pm

        Aaaaah Derrrr, did you actually read the poll, it shows this time round Labour is down a bit and the Green Party is up…
14. Anne 14

    15 November 2013 at 10:00 am

    TVNZ defends executive after crack at Auckland hit a nerve.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11157404

    This bit got a laugh from the audience – talking about Wellington and Christchurch:

    “…they just don’t get enough love really. Do they, you know? Or taxes. Or roads. Or Polynesians.”

    Racist?
    • greywarbler 14.1

      15 November 2013 at 10:43 am

      Anne
      I would say it was an ironic comment on the regular meme and theme that is heard about Auckland. Don’t let’s start over-sensitising to ordinary words – it leads to anaphylactic outcomes disastrous to discussion. I admit I get fired up about mother-fuc.er, two fairly ordinary words, but I find the combination unacceptable.
      • Anne 14.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 11:11 am

        Not too sure the Polynesian communities will see it that way.
        • weka 14.1.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 11:19 am

          Racist? In that Pakeha ignorant of what racism really is kind of way, yes. As someone says in the article, coming from someone with no ties to the Polynesian community it’s still about perceptions of Polynesians as ‘other’. I thought the Herald did relatively well in finding a good person to comment.

          Grey, it’s not about the word. It’s about who used it and the context it was used in.

          What’s the Auckland meme? Too many Polynesians?
          • greywarbler 14.1.1.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 12:28 pm

            weka
            Don’t be always looking for something to grizzle about. Why is there on every site one, apparently female, waiting to jump up, censor things and take others to task?

            Perhaps you might have noticed how often there is a one-person ambush waiting to tell everyone what to do, how its done correctly, and passing critical comments of others opinions. I do some of it myself but try to limit it. It is one of those aids in life that, overdone, becomes stifling.

            If it was South Africans mentioned, thinking that there are a lot on the North Shore, or whatever, it would be acknowledging a fact.
            • idlegus 14.1.1.1.1.1

              15 November 2013 at 1:54 pm

              nup, racist. why make the joke at all? its an assumption that everyone thinks like him.
              • ropata …

                15 November 2013 at 5:56 pm

                Perhaps it was a positive observation about Polynesian rugby talent?
            • weka 14.1.1.1.1.2

              15 November 2013 at 2:24 pm

              Grey, are you wanting me to shut up?

              This is a political blog, racism is political. Why would it not be ok to express an opinion about it, esp in response to a question someone raised?
            • Tracey 14.1.1.1.1.3

              15 November 2013 at 3:36 pm

              “apparent female”…

              is an apparent female a man?
              • fender …

                15 November 2013 at 4:25 pm

                Should have stuck to earlier promise to self, tends to get rather clumsy when discussing this sacred woman thing and embroidery…
15. greywarbler 15

    15 November 2013 at 10:21 am

    Good news for young women in 16 and 17 year group. I think it may be only those with babies. Those who have had to live separately from their family will now get the security and support that a good family should provide.

    They are to have shared housing provided with up to three of them living together. Older people, or slightly older young ones will be nearby and mentor them and their money will be channelled into providing the necessities first and then presumably an amount for discretionary spending. They are going to be supported, helped and be in training that will prepare them for their future employment and managing their own lives. If done sympathetically and a friendly organised way it will be great.

    This should be done widely, meeting whatever need there is, not just a pilot scheme to wave in front of the voters in election year as an example of the wonderful capacity building that this government is doing. But don’t know what will happen when the women turn 18, hope it won’t be ‘throw them in the pool to see if they can swim’ time. And what about working with boys, the young men who apparently do not mature until they are 25, and what a tortuous path they may follow in their younger years?

    One swallow does not win an election. But some would swallow it. Let’s have more and show up Labour, try and fight them and the Greens, with the observable facts and evidence on the ground of NACTs good ‘social development’.
    • weka 15.1

      15 November 2013 at 10:39 am

      The irony there is that if this were being offered under a L/G govt, it might actually work. Under a NACT govt, it’s likely to be hit and miss at best, and that will largely depend on the people in the agencies involved. Some will do good, some will do bad.

      I saw something yesterday that said that 16 and 17 yr olds are no longer allowed welfare payments directly. The payments instead go through an agency. Wouldn’t it be better to have a system whereby if the young person can demonstrate they are capable of managing their finances they are allowed to do so? Isn’t it both patronising and disabling to treat all young people as the same?

      “and then presumably an amount for discretionary spending.”

      What are you basing that one?

      “I think it may be only those with babies.”

      I didn’t pick that up, I thought it was all 16/17 yr olds who had had to leave home.
      • greywarbler 15.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 10:54 am

        Yes weka, I am not sure about the exact details. But because of the vulnerability of that age and the fact they have already got to the baby stage, it doesn’t hurt to treat them all with over care and some rules. And doing their own household budgeting and so on, they would get advice on good diets and what different foods are good for for health and gardening of simple vegetables etc.

        The group should be led to the self-managing state. Planning their budgets which they check out together to see how well they are managing etc. And they definitely should not have all their money taken by the agency. But it’s not meant to be just a short-term course where these young ones are left on their own after just learning stuff. Capacity building I said and that’s what I understood is the intention.
        • weka 15.1.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 10:59 am

          You have a lot more faith in the system than I do, and 100% more faith in the intentions of NACT. Mostly I see them as being controlling and manipulative. If the scheme were done with aroha I would agree with some of what you say. But I’ve never seen aroha coming from the Minister, and I know from experience that the state is mostly operating under a punitive welfare regime during NACT govts. I guess the damage they do with this one will just be added to the pile.
        • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.2

          15 November 2013 at 11:58 am

          Mr Deeds Goes to Town 😉
        • Molly 15.1.1.3

          15 November 2013 at 1:16 pm

          My mother-in-law had her first child at 17. Apparently not a completely unheard of occurrence in those days – 70 years approx.

          Perhaps instead of talking (endlessly) about the vulnerability and lack of discipline of contemporary women in the same situation, we look for the capability and success of those that manage – and manage well.

          They will have more insight into how to achieve success than someone with a completely different idea of “the right time to have a baby” and “poor offspring”. I am sometimes appalled by the lack of insight of those who are trained to help, and like weka think that usually the “help” that is offered by programmes like these from the National party are often applied in conjunction with a big stick.
    • Naturesong 15.2

      15 November 2013 at 11:06 am

      If this was voluntary, done properly, with good support and access to ongoing education / training you might have a starter.
      But given that this is the party that has consistantly cut access to education and training it doesnt seem likely.
      Looks more like a way to hand off money to unaccountable private sector organisations.

      Also, as can be seen in the legislation they have passed over the last 5 years, they don’t appear to understand the concepts of good governance, accountability or any sort of fiscal competance.
      Expect opportunities for rorts, abuse of the system, and potentially abuse of the young women.

      “Currently, there are around eight potential sites around the country including in Christchurch, Tokoroa, Whakatane, Auckland, Hamilton and Invercargill.”

      At least it’ll only be a pilot. If Labour / Greens get in next year, it might provide a starting point for a decent program.
    • Draco T Bastard 15.3

      15 November 2013 at 2:56 pm

      I believe that there’s a difference between providing support and ensuring that they get it and standing over their shoulder. This new policy from National is obviously the latter.
16. ianmac 16

    15 November 2013 at 11:31 am

    Any significance in this?
    “Meridian Energy’s sliding share price must be making some investors and the Government feel a little nervous.

    Shares in the power company hit $1.11 on November 6 but have trended downwards since then.

    On Wednesday they touched a low point of $1.01 – just 1c above the first instalment issue price.

    There may be a touch of groundhog day feeling coming through.” -Tamsyn Parker
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11157369
    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      15 November 2013 at 12:23 pm

      On Wednesday they touched a low point of $1.01 – just 1c above the first instalment issue price.

      So a clear loss once brokerage fees etc are taken into account.
17. greywarbler 17

    15 November 2013 at 11:37 am

    nz has no legal answer to ponzi schemes. we open ourselves up to the diseases of the world of all types yet don’t take sensible precautionary protective measures or have remedial procedures.
    (I suggest while you read listen to youtube of Taco singing Putting on the Ritz, very appropriate.)

    And clever experienced keys has been in politics for almost a decade, and came with full knowledge of the dangers to a country and its investors of shonkey schemes. He knew. and he didn’t pass on his knowledge for the benefit of the country. Birds of a feather fly together, the old saying. So he has a bunch that like his style, his money, his panache, his casual cheeriness, his concise answers to difficult or ethical problems with a falling emphasis in his voice.)

    Now follow up Taco with Robin Williams on being an alcoholic.
    • Rogue Trooper 17.1

      15 November 2013 at 11:47 am

      Menu”
      “All the hunger, all the yearning
      With the life-line that you’re burning
      Poison lessons that you’re learning
      The Road ahead is turning”.

      The Living End Wake Up
18. Rogue Trooper 18

    15 November 2013 at 11:38 am

    UNICEF [spokesman ] “By 2020, (not far away now) we will be responding increasingly to the frequency of [ climate disaster ] events.

    Alan Johnson, Salvation Army Housing Research- “what we are seeing is publicly funded gentrification” (GI, Pomare)

    Bacon on Freud
    • fender 18.1

      15 November 2013 at 1:01 pm

      New Bacon for an egg?
      Another acquisition by some super-rich prick who probably doesn’t really like the work all that much, just wants to impress visitors to the mansion.
      Can only hope it gets donated to a public collection when the golden one passes on..
19. Pascal's bookie 19

    15 November 2013 at 11:47 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9404405/State-asset-sales-costly

    Your MOM’s expensive.
    • Rogue Trooper 19.1

      15 November 2013 at 11:52 am

      9m is just morning-after sickness.
20. aerobubble 20

    15 November 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Die on the job? You can’t picket parliament, corporate headquarters, for a fair redundancy. So Mr Key its not the same.

    Are we really that backwards that secured investors get paid out before the bereaved (who get nothing)? That a government that removed protection is not liable for the results?
    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      15 November 2013 at 12:24 pm

      Apparently.

      Where’s that corporate shill photonz advocating for this. Probably studying up his next load of CT lies.
    • aerobubble 20.2

      15 November 2013 at 12:26 pm

      That owners of undeveloped land get 50% in ChCh from the govt! Yet miners get nowt?

      Okay, get the argument that the miners were not unionized, and were paid more so they could take out life insurance etc. But there was one kid who died, on his first day down the mine, who would likely have not gotten any insurance as he might not have taken to the job.
21. chris73 21

    15 November 2013 at 12:45 pm

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/11/ppta_introduces_apartheid-era_type_bans.html

    – Good article from kiwiblog, not quite sure its comparable to apartheid but its poor form from the ppta (not surprising of course)
    • Rogue Trooper 21.1

      15 November 2013 at 12:50 pm

      this appears unattractive.
      • chris73 21.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 1:10 pm

        Schoolkids as pawns always are but from the ppta point of view they’re just protecting their patch I guess
        • Rogue Trooper 21.1.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 1:13 pm

          happens across many of the professions I have observed; that’s competition.
        • Tracey 21.1.1.2

          15 November 2013 at 1:22 pm

          well, if the CEO of a charter school says they are bullies they must be…

          Notice the charter school has a Chief Executive Officer, state schools have Principals.

          Teachers usually want the best for their students, even when misguided their intention is pupil centred. NOT all of course.
          • Rogue Trooper 21.1.1.2.1

            15 November 2013 at 1:24 pm

            quite a bit of research revealing the effect teacher expectations have on the outcomes achieved. Not always egalitarian.
        • Tracey 21.1.1.3

          15 November 2013 at 1:27 pm

          can you explain how the PPTA is making teachers not mix with charter school teachers? Please include evidence.
        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.1.1.4

          15 November 2013 at 1:37 pm

          Why can’t boring parrot Chris come up with some original drivel instead this rote-learned crap? No wonder research shows that right wingers have lower IQs when this is the best they can manage: make up a lie, then repeat it to one another like a cultist mantra.

          Why don’t they just become Scientologists? At least they’d have more exciting drivel.

          It wasn’t the teachers plotting against the children, Thetan Chris, it was Xenu.
          • chris73 21.1.1.4.1

            15 November 2013 at 1:39 pm

            I love you to bro 😉
    • ianmac 21.2

      15 November 2013 at 1:14 pm

      The misinformation given is that somehow the PPTA instructs its members to do this or that. The PPTA is run by teachers for teachers. A decision to boycott will be a local majority decision not an instruction from on high.
      Is a boycott a good idea? It might just mean that if you want to go it alone, then do so without our help or support. That would be unsurprising wouldn’t it?
      • dv 21.2.1

        15 November 2013 at 3:26 pm

        The CEO is having a moan about not being able to send the pupils to the local school for some specialist subjects.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11156955
        If the boys and their whanau choose to enroll in the kura hourua, the kura has plans for some senior students to take certain classes, such as economics or trade studies at external schools such as Whangarei Boys’ High School and NorthTec.
    • Tracey 21.3

      15 November 2013 at 1:26 pm

      A cut and paste of some quotes with a slanted opinion superimposed. Nobel prize anyone?
    • Draco T Bastard 21.4

      15 November 2013 at 3:20 pm

      It’s Kiwiblog thus it’s probably spinning. As the saying goes:
      Best way to sell a lie is to mix in a bit of truth
22. Tracey 22

    15 November 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Society values money more than sexual assault victims??

    “The man behind what is thought to be New Zealand’s largest Ponzi scheme has been sentenced to 10 years and 10 months in prison.”

    “Daniel Taylor, 34, a former foster parent for Child Youth and Family, was sentenced to five years and seven months behind bars when he appeared for sentencing in the High Court at Whangarei this morning.

    Justice Peter Woodhouse ordered that Taylor serve at least two years and 10 months before he was eligible for parole and expressed doubt at the convicted paedophile’s remorse after it emerged he had penned a single line apology letter to his victims – signed “regards, Daniel Taylor”.”
23. chris73 23

    15 November 2013 at 1:40 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11157408

    – This is a good move
    • Tracey 23.1

      15 November 2013 at 1:43 pm

      Yep, it’s a great focus. Better than focusing on, say, funding rape prevention programmes in all high schools. Better to spend time and money chasing the fines…
      • chris73 23.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 2:07 pm

        So every positive action by the govt will be prefaced by ” Better than focusing on, say, funding rape prevention programmes in all high schools”?
        • Tracey 23.1.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 3:38 pm

          Nope, just this one and any time the right and its supporters focus on imagined heinous crime that must be stopped while ignoring real heinous crime.
          • chris73 23.1.1.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 4:23 pm

            Oh well when you put it like that…(yeah thats sarcasm)
    • ghostrider888 23.2

      15 November 2013 at 1:48 pm

      If I had not retired the machines I’d be eternally outlawed. ” The Road goes on, and on and on…”
      whereas cycling, that’s real freedom.
    • fender 23.3

      15 November 2013 at 2:05 pm

      “You’ve got about four months from the time you’ve been stopped and given a ticket to pay. That’s not bad, and that’s interest-free credit.” says Chester beater Borrows

      Don’t know how he can call it “interest-free credit” when the government don’t borrow money to cover it….do they?
      • Rogue Trooper 23.3.1

        15 November 2013 at 2:09 pm

        Futures Trades Pledged (hedged).
        • fender 23.3.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 5:59 pm

          One new sling the same old rock
    • Draco T Bastard 23.4

      15 November 2013 at 3:40 pm

      Associate Justice Minister Chester Borrows…

      He said the measure would apply only to people who ignored repeated 28-day deadlines for fines.

      “You’ve got about four months from the time you’ve been stopped and given a ticket to pay. That’s not bad, and that’s interest-free credit.”

      /facepalm

      Last time I got stopped for speeding I got a fine that I had to pay, not an interest free loan that I could spend anyway I liked.

      And, yes, I do think it’s a good move. Loss of license, loss of car (while keeping the debt of course) should make people think. I would be interested in the demographics of it as well.
      • weka 23.4.1

        15 November 2013 at 5:27 pm

        Is the car impounded or confiscated permanently?
        • Draco T Bastard 23.4.1.1

          15 November 2013 at 5:44 pm

          Just impounded unfortunately, I would sell it to cover costs and let them keep the debt that’s attached to the car.
          • weka 23.4.1.1.1

            15 November 2013 at 6:33 pm

            Is it just speeding fines, or are they applying it to other fines (wof etc)? Am thinking of the whole boy racer thing from a few years back.
    • Draco T Bastard 23.5

      15 November 2013 at 4:29 pm

      In light of this do the political right still view speed cameras as revenue gathering devices?

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10830429
      http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/revenue-gathering/#axzz2kgH3Uil0
      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/naked_revenue_gathering-2.html

      Or have they moved on and realised that breaking the law is actually a crime?
      • McFlock 23.5.1

        15 November 2013 at 5:27 pm

        it’s only a crime if you can’t afford to pay the fine – the tory dream
24. Tracey 24

    15 November 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “A report by the army’s social policy analyst Alan Johnson shows rents for the cheapest quarter of rented homes in the former Auckland City have risen faster than average since 2008 – by 21.6 per cent for three bedrooms and 25 per cent for two bedrooms in the lower quartile, in a period when median rents across Auckland rose by 17 per cent and consumer prices by only 12.5 per cent.

    But benefits have been adjusted only in line with consumer prices, and the maximum rates of accommodation supplement have not changed since 2005.

    The result is that five out of six low-income groups examined in the report are now worse off in real terms than they were five years ago by amounts ranging from $1.33 a week for a single sickness beneficiary renting a one-bedroom flat to $33.64 a week for an unemployed couple with three children renting a three-bedroom house, both at lower-quartile rents.”
    • McFlock 24.1

      15 November 2013 at 2:11 pm

      That’s the SALVATION army, just before the chemtrailers start another theory 🙂
25. chris73 25

    15 November 2013 at 2:11 pm

    http://www.ijreview.com/2013/11/93968-thanks-obamacare-tapping-beer-fund/

    – Got to pitch the ads at the level of the people you’re trying to sell to I guess
    • Naturesong 25.1

      15 November 2013 at 2:20 pm

      Yup, they should have gone with single payer.

      That’s what happens when corporate money infects a democracy.
26. lprent 26

    15 November 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Opps….

    The site was getting pretty damn slow because I managed to comment out the provision of swap space in fstab when I was fiddling last night. It was getting pretty memory constrained..

    Just turned the swap on and cleared the outstanding backlog.

    Should be faster now.
    • Draco T Bastard 26.1

      15 November 2013 at 4:18 pm

      Well, hopefully now I won’t be getting blank screens.
    • ropata 26.2

      15 November 2013 at 5:59 pm

      hey lprent were you involved in setting up CyberPlace ?? They have a similar logo …
      • lprent 26.2.1

        15 November 2013 at 8:25 pm

        Nope. If it involves aesthetics then I am not responsible for it
27. emergency mike 27

    15 November 2013 at 4:05 pm

    How’s the War on Drugs going these days?

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/11/us-drug-afgahnistan-opium.html

    Patroling and protecting Afghan poppy fields seems to be the latest approach.
    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      15 November 2013 at 4:12 pm

      Happy opium farmers are Afghans who are less likely to shelter and help anti-US insurgents.
28. BLiP 28

    15 November 2013 at 4:28 pm

    ‘

    Proxy surfing to be made illegal. Sad to say, there consensus between National Ltd™ and Labour on this aspect of the TPP.
    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      15 November 2013 at 4:33 pm

      Would you care to explain how?
      • BLiP 28.1.1

        15 November 2013 at 7:39 pm

        ‘

        For the service provider to comply with the proposed rules it must know how each and every user of its system accessed the allegedly copyright material. One way to ensure this capability is to prevent the use of proxy surfing. I don’t know how they would do it, though.
29. greywarbler 29

    15 November 2013 at 5:51 pm

    I was looking for the santa fe institute and got santa fe news, usa instead.
    This was one of their articles. Sounds pretty jaw dropping. Like something from bootleg liquor days.

    Boston crime boss Whitey Bulger sentenced to life
    BOSTON — Former Boston crime boss James “Whitey” Bulger was sentenced Thursday to life in prison for his murderous reign in the 1970s and ’80s, bringing to a close a case that exposed FBI corruption so deep that many people across the city thought he would never be brought to justice.
    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/
30. Rogue Trooper 30

    15 November 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Typhoon Haiyan May Devastate Philippine Economy
    http://www.ksdk.com/story/weather/2013/11/11/typhoon-haiyan-hurting-philippines-economy/3497053/

    – “This is only the beginning…”
    http://www.ibtimes.com/philippines-super-typhoon-only-beginning-far-worse-natural-catastrophes-1468806?

    and maybe throw in a Cholera pandemic …
31. amirite 31

    15 November 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Has something changed between 2011 and today? Cos I haven’t heard a peep about asset sales from Colon Cray. Ready to sell his principles for a ministerial seat? How very un-Christian.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/election-2011/conservative-party-asset-sales-lose-money-4560364
    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      15 November 2013 at 10:09 pm

      National isn’t the only party dining on dead rats in this marriage.
32. the pigman 32

    15 November 2013 at 9:51 pm

    The Japan Times Online: “Risky Fuel Removal about to Start”:
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/14/national/risky-fuel-removal-about-to-start/#.UoXecXCMlTI

    As someone actually living in Tokyo, I sometimes find myself offside with people more alarmed about the Fukushima situation. I thought this was a timely update about what is currently going on, since Bill posted about this a couple of weeks ago (as I understand it the commencement of the fuel removal operation was delayed for more testing to occur).

    Anyway, the Japan Times is a pretty good source of thoroughly-researched news and is frequently critical of the Japanese government and TEPCO on a number of issues, so hopefully the article is informative. Also, the diagram is kinda neat.
33. xtasy 33

    16 November 2013 at 3:06 am

    Something different from Chile: ‘Los Prisoneros’ at Vina del Mar in 2003, perhaps some may be interested in this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyl0o8XqBzk
34. xtasy 34

    16 November 2013 at 3:52 am

    ‘Soda Stereo’ de Argentina, one of the best groups ever from Latin America, worth watching and listening to:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoJEw7jBOLo

    That is stuff few here know, and it is a great performance at Vina Del Mar, Chile, that they did in 1987.
35. xtasy 35

    16 November 2013 at 4:30 am

    Never ending to repeat myself, some of the best of Latin American music comes from the group Illapu:

    http://www.illapu.cl/

    Their song Vuelvo is popular:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8y_0y-cT5g
36. xtasy 36

    16 November 2013 at 5:04 am

    Being a HUMAN BEING, best spoken out by Victor Jara, one of the most hounoured souls that there ever was on this planet:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Rvas3PBjQ

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