Open mike 16/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 16th, 2013 - 170 comments
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170 comments on “Open mike 16/06/2013 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    16 June 2013 at 6:12 am

    “I act on research and evidence! That’s what I do!”
    Sue Moroney’s dismal, delusional anti-fluoridation rave

    Backbenchers, Prime TV, Wednesday 12 June 2013, 10:30 p.m.
    Hosts: Wallace Chapman, Damian Christie
    Politicians: Sue Moroney (Labour), Simon O’Connor (National), Richard Prosser (New Zealand First)

    If you can bear the unedifying spectacle of “wretchedness o’ercharg’d”, then please watch as Labour List lightweight Sue Moroney, in an incredible display of sheer purblind obstinacy, incites the crowd to outraged jeering, and drives the normally unflappable Wallace Chapman to completely lose his rag.

    First topic for tonight is the Edward Snowden story…

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Here’s a simple question for you Sue Moroney. If the U.S. whistleblower sought asylum in New Zealand, would you support him?
    SUE MORONEY: [face frozen in rictus grin] Ahhhhhhhhhhh. [extended pause] No. I don’t think so. Ask me something that matters.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: [shrugs shoulders, raises eyebrows in disbelief] Okay then. Do you feel sorry for Peter Dunne?
    SUE MORONEY: Ohhhhh, look, he’s a minister. There are expectations we have of a minister, and he failed.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Does the spy scandal worry you?
    SUE MORONEY: No! Not at all!

    For a moment, a stunned and ominous silence fills the Backbenchers Tavern; then the slight titter of derisive laughter, and also a slight percussive sound: the Labour Party supporters gnashing their teeth in mortification. Wallace Chapman licks his lips, shakes his head in disbelief, then he decides to see if he can get someone to talk sense….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: All right, I’ll ask all three of our politicians: Edward Snowden, hero or villain?
    RICHARD PROSSER: Ooooh…depends where you stand. One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Okay. Short and sweet. Sue Moroney?
    SUE MORONEY: [significant pause] I’d like a lot more information. But I guess he’s a hero.
    SIMON O’CONNOR: He’s a young man who made a rash decision. He hasn’t thought it through.

    Next topic is FLUORIDATION. Rational people are still reeling at the almost unbelievable news this week that the Hamilton City Council has been bullied by a small cabal of fanatics into abandoning its water fluoridation program. It surely makes sense, therefore, that a parliamentary backbencher from Hamilton should be on Backbenchers tonight. Surely. Unfortunately, as we have already seen by her confused and contradictory statements about the Edward Snowden case, this particular backbencher makes little or no sense at all….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: What do you think of that decision, Sue Moroney?
    SUE MORONEY: [significant pause] I stand with Labour. We need a proper government inqu—-
    SIMON O’CONNOR: No, no, no, no, no! That’s not good enough, Sue! I ask you to give me an answer and you say nothing that makes sense. This is a bit of a shocker, Sue!
    SUE MORONEY: Research and evidence! I act on research and evidence! That’s what I do!
    SIMON O’CONNOR: The evidence is beyond doubt. There are SCORES of peer-reviewed studies in academic journals.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Richard Prosser, what do you think about fluoride in the water supply?
    RICHARD PROSSER: I have to say I would be personally against it.
    SIMON O’CONNOR: [drily, to Prosser] I’ll send you the articles in Nature and by the government’s Chief Science Advisor Sir Peter Gluckman tomorrow.

    Chapman has obviously prepared seriously for this, to the extent of bringing on Doctor JONATHAN BROADBENT, an expert in dental epidemiology from Otago University. Dr Broadbent explains that there is no rational debate about it, and that there has already been a major inquiry on the matter: the major New Zealand study on the effects of fluoridation was completed in 1971. He speaks for a considerable time, and then it’s time to confront the List MP from Hamilton with a cold dose of reality….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: He makes sense, Sue Moroney, you don’t.
    SUE MORONEY: Well if you base your decision on forty-year-old science—-

    At this point, there is sustained jeering from the audience. Cries of “Shame!” and “Ignorant!” can be heard.

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: We know where you stand. You stand with Richard Prosser.
    SUE MORONEY: [nonplussed expression on face] Ummmm….We need an inquiry!

    More angry, contemptuous hooting and jeering.

    SIMON O’CONNOR: Here we are again, Labour asking for another inquiry.
    SUE MORONEY: [rictus grin now replaced by angry scowl] Well, FORTY-YEAR-OLD SCIENCE! Do you want to put your faith in forty-year-old science?

    Hooting and jeering and derisive laughter continues….

    The rest of the show consists of poor, awkward Damian Christie circulating round groups of drinkers, poking a microphone into their midst and trying to get them to answer his extraordinarily inane questions. As usual, this is an excruciatingly painful watch.

    • Jenny 1.1
      16 June 2013 at 8:52 am

      Earlier, in the interview in which he revealed his identity to the world, Snowden explained that he had sought refuge in Hong Kong because it “has a strong tradition of free speech” and “a long tradition of protesting in the streets”.

      Local activists plan to take to the streets on Saturday in support of Snowden. Groups including the Civil Human Rights Front and international human rights groups will march from Chater Gardens in Central to the US consulate on Garden Road, starting at 3pm.

      The march is being organised by In-media, a website supporting freelance journalists.

      “We call on Hong Kong to respect international legal standards and procedures relating to the protection of Snowden; we condemn the US government for violating our rights and privacy; and we call on the US not to prosecute Snowden,” the group said in a statement.

      Good on Snowden. And what a compliment he has paid to the people of Hong Kong. I am jealous.
      On the other hand in an unedifying mirror image of Sue Maroney’s sick comments, a Beijing Communist Party toady calls for Snowden’s deportation:

      While many Hong Kong lawmakers, legal experts, activists and members of the public have called on the city’s courts to protect Snowden’s rights, others such as Beijing loyalist lawmaker and former security chief Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee said he should leave.

      Yay! Team Edward

      Boo! Toady politicians

      WALLACE CHAPMAN: Here’s a simple question for you Sue Moroney. If the U.S. whistleblower sought asylum in New Zealand, would you support him?

      SUE MORONEY: No. I don’t think so. Ask me something that matters.

      Maroney. You suck. You are a disgrace to your party.

      Fortunately for us. As in New Zealand, in Hong Kong, mainstream politicians are not the only ones who get to have a say. (Marking Hong Kong out as a democratic stand out. And also as a good choice by Snowden as a safe haven.)

      Any politician that makes a statement in direct opposition to Edward Snowden’s brave act of conscience, as Maroney has done, does not belong in any political party that claims it stands for democracy.

      But not according to “Ask me something that matters” Maroney.

      Is Maroney parroting the Labour Party line, here?

      Is Maroney speaking for the Labour Party, or for herself?

      Why is David Shearer so silent on the spying scandals that have rocked New Zealand and the world?

      Can Shearer be trusted to take over John Key’s role as minister for the SIS and GCSB?

      When it comes to spying on us: Will an incoming Labour administration under the Shearer gang be a seamless continuation of Business As Usual?

      Will a Labour administration repeal the Act that has legalised criminal behavior by the GCSB?

      Will law breaking by the SIS the GCSB and the police, continue to be covered up and excused, under a Labour administration as they have been under a National one?

      Who are the 88?

      Are they really a danger to us?

      Will David Shearer as head of the SIS honour OIA requests and release the names of the 88 New Zealanders illegally spied on? So that we, and they, can decide if the illegal intrusion on their privacy was justified?

      Will New Zealand be a safe haven for prisoners of conscience under a Labour administration, no matter which country they hale from?

      Maybe some Labour Party insiders might like to enlighten us?

      • Populuxe1 1.1.1
        16 June 2013 at 12:08 pm

        That would be Hong Kong, territory of that bastion of free speech and democracy, the People’s Republic of China? Why yes, that’s exactly where I’d flee to. Mind you, given he’s only revealed to the world that, quelle surprise, the NSA does exactly the same data mining as Google does, I’m not sure he’s at all that great a risk.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 1:33 pm

          however, Google does not have powers to incarcerate you in Guantanamo Bay without trial, for no stated reason. That seems to be an important difference.

        • Morrissey 1.1.1.2
          17 June 2013 at 6:28 am

          Why yes, that’s exactly where I’d flee to.

          Sycophants and ideologically trustworthy servants of state power are not the ones who ever have to worry about having to flee state vengeance. You are safe, my friend.

          …he’s only revealed to the world that, quelle surprise, the NSA does exactly the same data mining as Google does

          In view of your extensive form, it’s difficult to call this one, but I think that statement could be just about the stupidest thing you have ever written on this mostly excellent forum.

          I’m not sure he’s at all that great a risk.

          Yes, the treatment of Julian Assange and Bradley Manning must have given comfort to all those who value liberty, human rights and justice. Oh yes.

      • johnm 1.1.2
        16 June 2013 at 12:15 pm

        100% right Jenny.Under Key NZ is little more than a vassal state of the U$. Why? Since Rogernomics we’ve bought into the Washington Consensus which is neoliberalism and privatisation and a horror of anything which is Socialist, even a simple mixed economy. Defence wise we’re locked in with Australia, the U$’s sheriff in the southern pacific, our subservience to the U$ is shown by having soldiers in Afghanistan. The greatest figure of South American politics the anti neoliberal Hugo Chavez, Key did not attend his funeral though he visited ex Pinochet Chile. To give asylum to Snowden would be a direct slap in the face to the U$ military hegemony, and our defence agreements with them, no politician in Labour or National would do that.
        Without U$ military might in the Pacific there would be a huge power vacuum almost certainly filled by China. The Japanese would almost certainly have to develop nuclear weapons against North Korea and China as a deterrent.
        That said we should still give Snowden asylum showing we’re not total toady bastards to U$ military and security dominance

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1
          16 June 2013 at 1:39 pm

          I don’t think you need worry. The US is greatly expanding its presence in the Pacific and nothing we do will change that. Having said that we also want to keep both China and the US on side, while ensuring we do what is best for NZ.

          That’s statecraft.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 3:13 pm

            Having said that we also want to keep both China and the US on side, while ensuring we do what is best for NZ.

            And the best way to do that is to declare our total neutrality – and then build up enough force to prevent an invasion.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1.1
              16 June 2013 at 4:27 pm

              There are many styles and kinds of invasion.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                16 June 2013 at 5:50 pm

                True. The ones we’re experiencing ATM are financial but I was speaking of direct invasion. To stop the financial invasion we’d also have to declare neutrality and then drop the Washington Consensus.

      • johnm 1.1.3
        16 June 2013 at 1:26 pm

        “Snowden Supporters Rally in Hong Kong
        ‘Arrest Obama, free Snowden’ protesters chant ”

        http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/15-1

        No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

        Article 12 Universal Declaration of Human Rights

        How about our own government spying on New Zealanders?

    • bad12 1.2
      16 June 2013 at 8:54 am

      Moroney tho has a point, how reliable is 40 year old ‘science’, i should imagine even tho it doesn’t seem a topic to fire the imagination that there would have been ‘opposition’ to the mass uptake of fluoridation in the 70’s,

      i have no strong view either way but would suggest that in the ‘stuffed shirt’ days of the 70’s the prevailing view of ‘science’ would have and has lead to a really nice little earner for chemical companies over many generations,

      i havn’t heard of farming communities suffering any worse dental outcomes than ‘towny’ communities do they stuff their water tanks with fluoride…

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.2.1
        16 June 2013 at 9:30 am

        Shit if 40 year old science is a problem what about those idiots that decided the earth was round, or that gravity caused things to fall.

        That science is really old!

        • Anne 1.2.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 10:16 am

          Point well made D Of Sssmith

          • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 1:51 pm

            DoS does ignore one factor. While the fact that the Earth is round hasn’t changed in 40 years, our understanding of medicine, biochemistry, physiology and human health has radically changed.

            The harms caused by something like smoking or by pestcides like 245T for example…we know things now about detailed mechanisms that they barely suspected back then.

            EDIT I see Bad12 beat me to it…

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.2.1.1.1.1
              16 June 2013 at 7:39 pm

              I wasn’t really ignoring it I as simply saying that the age of the science was irrelevant as to whether we trusted it.

              New scientific discoveries may or may not change what we know.

              We shouldn’t discount any science on the basis of age. That isn’t how science works.

              You’re reading too much into what I intended.

        • Jenny 1.2.1.2
          16 June 2013 at 10:45 am

          Shit if 40 year old science is a problem what about those idiots that decided the earth was round, or that gravity caused things to fall.

          Descendant Of Sssmith

          Or indeed, the hundred year old science of heavier than air flight.

          What nonsensical rationalisations these are. And from an Labour MP who by refusing to support safe haven for Edward Snowden, is supporting the crude and cruel hounding of this brave individual who courageously and at great personal cost has exposed to the public view, a level of intrusive state surveilence into US and other countries citizens engaged in by the US government that would make the East German Stasi blush.

          WALLACE CHAPMAN: Does the spy scandal worry you?

          SUE MORONEY: No! Not at all!

          What Chapman could have asked her was; Do you have any brains? To which this tory could have given the same answer.

          With these sort of statements Sue Maroney shows she properly belongs in the National Party caucus, or the even more whacky ACT caucus. (If there ever was such a thing again).

          This is the sort of smug dismissal I would normally expect to come from John Key. And not a Labour Party MP. How on earth did Sue Maroney get on the Labour list?

          • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1.2.1
            16 June 2013 at 11:07 am

            Jenny, your complaint about Moroney is based on what Moz claims she said. You need to take into account that previous experience of his ‘transcipts’ suggests that there is a huge gap between what is said and what Moz claims was said.

            Moroney, and Labour, want an independent enquiry to see whether fluoride is needed or not. That seems sensible given that the opposition to it seems to be reduced to ‘but, nazis!’

            • Morrissey 1.2.1.2.1.1
              17 June 2013 at 6:34 am

              You need to take into account that previous experience of his ‘transcipts’ suggests that there is a huge gap between what is said and what Moz claims was said.

              You have already been exposed several times for your pettifogging and quibbling, but I see you are back at it. Since this was a hastily scribbled freehand/shorthand transcript, it’s not absolutely verbatim as it would be if I had laboriously transcribed from a tape recording. But I got the key parts of that horrifyingly substandard performance absolutely right, and you know it.

              I did not make up any of it—even in my most extravagantly satirical mood, I could not imagine anything as stupid and irresponsible as Sue Moroney came out with on Wednesday night.

              • Te Reo Putake …
                17 June 2013 at 7:22 am

                “Since this was a hastily scribbled freehand/shorthand transcript, it’s not absolutely verbatim …”

                Thank you for confirming my point. Again.

          • johnm 1.2.1.2.2
            16 June 2013 at 7:19 pm

            “Thousands Of Companies Have Been Handing Over Your Personal Data To The NSA”
            http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/thousands-of-companies-have-been-handing-over-your-personal-data-to-the-nsa

            Good on Snowden!

        • bad12 1.2.1.3
          16 June 2013 at 1:44 pm

          Point not so well made is my view, you are comparing the ‘science of nature’ with the ‘chemical science of man’,

          The two are as different as chalk and cheese, the Earth is spherical because it is!!! that’s hardly based upon science and it was hardly science that someone at some point gained the means to sail out past the horizon and discover that it ain’t flat,

          Ugly Truth in comment 2 links to some large scientific studies that debunk the fluoride myth…

          • McFlock 1.2.1.3.1
            16 June 2013 at 3:10 pm

            On the contrary, what changes in population health & chemical science is the degree of accuracy, not the facts.

            Hence the research about going for 0.7ppm rather than 0.75, as opposed to the range 40 years ag which was say 0.6-1.2ppm.

            But the clear benefits of fluoridation were evident 60 years ago, no matter what UT thinks. His link in comment two was incorrect at point one and went downhill from there.

            For example: “According to the NIDR’s statisticians, the study found an average difference of only 0.6 DMFS (Decayed Missing and Filled Surfaces) in the permanent teeth of children aged 5-17 residing in either fluoridated or unfluoridated areas (Brunelle and Carlos, 1990). This difference is less than one tooth surface! There are 128 tooth surfaces in a child’s mouth.“. Let’s say 200,000 children: that’s 120,000 teeth that require additional treatment such as fillings, capping or extraction before the age of 17 (not to mention the next 60 years).

      • Saarbo 1.2.2
        16 June 2013 at 10:12 am

        Farming families are generally issued fluoride tabs, we were. Also did not have much access to soft drink and lollies :-), made up for it when we left home.

      • Morrissey 1.2.3
        16 June 2013 at 10:55 am

        Moroney tho has a point, how reliable is 40 year old ‘science’…

        Nonsense. Moroney had no point to make, because she has never read anything about it, nor thought about it.

        Whatever LEC in Hell selected her should should have all of its members struck off immediately.

        • bad12 1.2.3.1
          16 June 2013 at 1:54 pm

          Nor had i until i got onto the link in comment 2, which shows that there is a fairly large amount of study by reputable scientists which paint the depositing of fluoride into the water system in a not very favorable light,

          i may be wrong but i see Sue Moroney as part of the well meaning middle class who may not have too many clues but are (slightly) left leaning,

          The Labour Party is chocka with such people it’s why they can come up with such a grand idea as shoe-horning the children of the middle class onto the ‘property ownership ladder’ whilst remaining eerily SILENT on the economic fate of the Mene Mene’s of this world…

    • Rogue Trooper 1.3
      16 June 2013 at 11:29 am

      As a Labour man, some of these Labour MPs do make me cringe; guess that is why Nash declined a certain cup of tea. (high-lobe Cam).

      • Tim 1.3.1
        16 June 2013 at 4:16 pm

        I agree RT – I frequently find myself asking (myself): Who the fuck ARE these people?, and how the hell did this happen?
        I know the answer, but I also wonder WHY we keep empowering them.
        The Labour Party’s worst enemy (enema even) has always been apathy. But the buggers just KEEP subscribing to the doctor’s prescription – even when it’s giving them the runs.
        Who the hell is advising them (I’ll send the boys around – half of them a mates of Mallard anyway)?

        • Tim 1.3.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 5:20 pm

          An hour or so on, and after a sesh with the proctologist, I’m more the wiser and in no need now of a dainty little dinner party anyway.
          The difference between National and Labour is that Nat members strut around asking anyone that will listen “Don’t you know who I am?”, whilst members of Labour ask themselves and anyone that will listen – “who the fuck are “WE”?’

    • Tim 1.4
      16 June 2013 at 2:50 pm

      Well I’ve just struck her off my dinner party list! Or maybe not. I’ll discuss my proctologist with her, instead of my psychiatrist – I’m sure she’ll be able to give me some deep and meaningful advice. She’ll probably advise I need a second (perhaps even 3rd) opinion.

  2. Ugly Truth 2
    16 June 2013 at 8:20 am

    “Rational people are still reeling at the almost unbelievable news this week that the Hamilton City Council has been bullied by a small cabal of fanatics into abandoning its water fluoridation program”

    Don’t beat around the bush, Morrisey. Tell us what you really think.

    50 Reasons to Oppose Fluoridation
    Dr. Paul Connett, Professor of Chemistry, St. Lawrence University

    http://www.slweb.org/50reasons.html

    • tc 2.1
      16 June 2013 at 8:28 am

      Makes a change from hamilton council doing the bullying.

    • Pasupial 2.2
      16 June 2013 at 8:44 am

      @ Ugly

      Having you oppose fluoridation seems one of the best reasons to support it (I guess those strip-club girls don’t care too much about the state of your teeth if you’re bulging at the wallet area).

      However, I think it would be fair if councils were to provide a tank of rain water for those who want to avoid the fluoridated town supply. I doubt there would be that many (a similar, or lesser, proportion than those who signed Hamilton’s failed referendum against it). Plus it could be used as an emergency back-up for the scientifically literate if there was a disruption to the normal water works.

      • bad12 2.2.1
        16 June 2013 at 9:08 am

        Read the link at (2), there’s plenty of science that does not support fluoridation…

        • ak 2.2.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 10:36 am

          Crap. A handful of obsessive rebels without a cause and chickenship councilors in election year have condemned thousands of high-deprivation children to the misery of excrutiatingly bad oral health and the downstream effects that will last all their lives. And if those same heroes get crook tomorrow, they’ll accept – in fact demand – without the tiniest murmur, every other advance of modern medical science. Selfish, hypocritical, cretins.

          • Lanthanide 2.2.1.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 11:15 am

            +1

          • Rogue Trooper 2.2.1.1.2
            16 June 2013 at 11:34 am

            regular brushing, morning and night, plenty of ‘sterilization’ over the years, and fluoridated water; only one extraction at 45. (though a few ‘knocked about’; wrong place, wrong time).
            😎

          • bad12 2.2.1.1.3
            16 June 2013 at 2:01 pm

            LOLZ, obviously didn’t bother to read the ‘science’ contained in comment 2, suppose the ‘scientists’ involved in such studies,(some of them of multi-year duration) are all selfish, hypocritical cretins as well,

            It would seem that the consensus of opposition to fluoride in water is that fluoride when applied orally via a toothpaste has some positive effect while adding such to drinking water is dubious at best and if a high enough dose of the stuff is continually added to drinking water there are negative effects becoming apparent…

            • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1.3.1
              16 June 2013 at 2:26 pm

              bad12 if you remember that this debate is now not one of science and rational discourse, it is one of belief systems and world views, it will make more sense. Part of a civic religion in other words.

              That’s why you are seeing the emotional polemics, condemning our children to hell, I mean, in the form of a lifetime of decaying rotten teeth. You are messing with the transmitted orthodoxy.

              • bad12 …
                16 June 2013 at 5:25 pm

                It appears that one’s worship of Uncle Sam is a must in the fluoride ‘debate’, it appears that ALL of non-English speaking Europe has now ceased to apply fluoride to water supplies,

                This is obviously a plot by non-English speaking dentists from all over Europe who can see mountains of money to be made from all them kids with bad teeth…

                • McFlock …
                  16 June 2013 at 6:13 pm

                  Not Quite.

                  And then there’s the issue of salt or milk fluoridation as alternative avenues.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    16 June 2013 at 9:55 pm

                    Good ideas those, allowing people to choose to use fluoridated salt or milk.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:02 pm

                      Possibly not as effective for poor people or maybe those who aren’t intimately aware of their micro-nutrient needs, though. Look at the price of higher-calcium milk, for example.

          • Ugly Truth 2.2.1.1.4
            16 June 2013 at 2:25 pm

            @ak

            “Crap”

            No, it is actual scientific fact. Here’s the first one from the list:

            Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. No disease has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency. Humans can have perfectly good teeth without fluoride.

            • McFlock 2.2.1.1.4.1
              16 June 2013 at 3:15 pm

              But humans are more likely to have shit teeth without fluoride. So for some people, it is essential if they want their own teeth for the rest of their lives.

              • weka …
                16 June 2013 at 9:34 pm

                “But humans are more likely to have shit teeth without fluoride. So for some people, it is essential if they want their own teeth for the rest of their lives.”

                I’d agree with the second* but would like to see a citation for the first. Modern fluoridation of water happens in places where humans generally eat diets that harm oral health. Are you suggesting that humans that don’t eat like that are better off with fluoridated water too? I haven’t looked to see what the research is saying on this but am curious if you have.

                * to an extent. We know that some people don’t keep their teeth for life, or have poor oral health, even when they drink fluoridated water all that time.

                • McFlock …
                  16 June 2013 at 9:44 pm

                  Nope.

                  All I’m saying is that even ugly’s link said that fluoridated water was associated with lower DMFTs. I wasn’t speculating on anything more than that. Our teeth would no doubt be better if high-fructose corn syrup didn’t exist, but it does.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    16 June 2013 at 9:54 pm

                    Large numbers of advanced western countries have decided that fluoridation doesn’t justify mandatory use, and several have even withdrawn it from their populations after having had it for many years.

                    I’m not aware of any evidence which shows that children’s teeth in those countries are significantly worse off after the withdrawal of water fluoridation.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 9:59 pm

                      Do a lit search on Ovid over the weekend, did you?

                      Sorry, but “Colonial Viper isn’t aware of it” isn’t much in the way of “evidence”.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:04 pm

                      How about “McFlock isn’t aware of any such evidence either”

                      Better? 🙂

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:13 pm

                      True, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

                      Whereas evidence of benefit is actual evidence.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:23 pm

                      There’s no evidence of harm from having withdrawn fluoridation. That’s pretty simple.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:30 pm

                      …that you know of. To argue “I don’t know, therefore it’s safe” really is pretty simple.

                      Maybe you should do some research to find the cohort studies from that time and confirm your hypothesis, because there sure is evidence that fluoridation is associated with lowered DMFT rates.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:38 pm

                      yeah pretty sure it is

                      but as the Israeli Minister of Health says…why are you fluoridating all this water when only 2% of it will be drunk

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:40 pm

                      because 2% of it will be drunk.

                    • weka …
                      17 June 2013 at 12:22 am


                      There’s no evidence of harm from having withdrawn fluoridation. That’s pretty simple.

                      McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:30 pm
                      …that you know of. To argue “I don’t know, therefore it’s safe” really is pretty simple.

                      Maybe you should do some research to find the cohort studies from that time and confirm your hypothesis, because there sure is evidence that fluoridation is associated with lowered DMFT rates.

                      McFlock, what key words would you use for a search? I did a quick google and found the following, but not much otherwise.

                      The best available evidence from studies following withdrawal of water fluoridation indicates that caries prevalence increases, approaching the level of the low fluoride group. Again, however, the studies were of moderate quality (level B), and limited quantity. The estimates of effect could be biased due to poor adjustment for the effects of potential confounding factors.

                      http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/fluoride/documents/crdreport18.pdf

                      (sept 2000)

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      17 June 2013 at 12:23 am

                      because 2% of it will be drunk.

                      LOL

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      17 June 2013 at 12:25 am

                      Note: it appears from a quick read that fluoride also changes the behaviour of bone cells through various poorly understood signalling mechanisms. I wonder what other cell signalling mechanisms it affects.

                    • McFlock …
                      17 June 2013 at 1:39 pm

                      @Weka – not really my field, but Scandinavia has a pretty good history of epi research so I’d be surprised if they didn’t do something. Beyond the obvious (“fluoride”, etc) I’m not sure where to start.

                      I find that keyword searches can still overload one with results that are frequently only tangentially related to the actual area of interest – try title word searches as well if keywords bring up nothing useful.

                    • McFlock …
                      17 June 2013 at 1:41 pm

                      @CV

                      OMG, you’ve discovered that a chemical might have detectable effects! At what doses? Links?

                  • weka …
                    16 June 2013 at 10:17 pm

                    “All I’m saying is that even ugly’s link said that fluoridated water was associated with lower DMFTs. I wasn’t speculating on anything more than that. Our teeth would no doubt be better if high-fructose corn syrup didn’t exist, but it does.”

                    Fair enough. Let me rephrase your earlier comment then,

                    from –

                    But humans are more likely to have shit teeth without fluoride. So for some people, it is essential if they want their own teeth for the rest of their lives.

                    to –

                    But humans are more likely to have shit teeth if their oral health is destroyed in other ways and they don’t have fluoride. So for some people, it is essential if they want their own teeth for the rest of their lives.

                    Myself, I would also add –

                    And addressing the reasons why good oral health is not promoted in NZ
                    at a preventative level is something we should be doing, including looking at meta issues of poverty, education, and whether mass medication is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 10:27 pm

                      “Mass medication” like iodised salt in bread and fluoride in water is prevention, not an ambulance. Even in the most equitable and civilised society, I would expect some initiatives along those lines. Because on the flipside of “personal choice” is “information overload” and “some people will have no freaking idea either way”.

                      Although I agree with the rest of your addendum.

                    • weka …
                      17 June 2013 at 12:10 am

                      A society that says we won’t ban soft drinks etc in schools or lollies at supermarket check outs, cannot then claim that regulating water fluoridation is prevention. It’s medication instead of prevention. True prevention is making sure that everyone can afford to eat well and has access to healthy foods, and is making sure that knowing how to eat well has the same value as reading and writing. Prevention also doesn’t see tooth decay as separate from diabetes or heart disease.

                      We are so far away from a prevention model we don’t even recognise what prevention is.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      17 June 2013 at 12:15 am

                      We are so far away from a prevention model we don’t even recognise what prevention is.

                      Well said.

                      It’s still too often fighting fire with fire.

                    • McFlock …
                      17 June 2013 at 1:49 pm

                      @ Weka,

                      behind that logic is the assumption that if everyone did everything perfectly correctly, there would be no tooth decay. My internal cynic finds this difficult to believe.

                      Not to mention the fact that “education” does not equal or determine “will”.

                    • weka …
                      17 June 2013 at 2:15 pm

                      “behind that logic is the assumption that if everyone did everything perfectly correctly, there would be no tooth decay. My internal cynic finds this difficult to believe.”

                      It’s not the logic behind my thinking. What I think is that if we promoted and practiced true prevention, then the rates of tooth decay would be much lower, and the fluoridation debate would look very different.

                      “Not to mention the fact that “education” does not equal or determine “will”.”

                      Sure. So we can educate (and legislate) about smoking and lots of people will quit, but some won’t. Of course we can’t really know what is going on there until we deal with poverty and the stresses of modern life too (both powerful influences on health).

                      But let’s say in some mythical world, we did actual health promotion in a meaningful way, poverty was drastically reduced, and people had genuine choices around how to live their lives. Some people still choose to eat lots of sugar and most of them get holes in their teeth. What percentage of the population would that need to be to warrant fluoridation of the water supply?

                      I suspect that this is where you and I differ most. I don’t believe that all people should be medicated to target only a proportion of the population. If we were talking about diabetes say, and we could put a new magic diabetes drug (one that maintains stability rather than cures) in the water, would that be ok? What would be the determining factors? (cost, side effects, risks etc).

                      I suppose what I am saying is that I believe it is a fundamental right that people get to choose what they put in their bodies. I’m fortunate in that it’s relatively easy for me to avoid fluoridated water (I drink bore or rain water to avoid chlorination).

                    • McFlock …
                      17 June 2013 at 3:49 pm

                      I suspect that this is where you and I differ most. I don’t believe that all people should be medicated to target only a proportion of the population. If we were talking about diabetes say, and we could put a new magic diabetes drug (one that maintains stability rather than cures) in the water, would that be ok? What would be the determining factors? (cost, side effects, risks etc).

                      I would say that inclusion of a substance in the water supply (or staples like milk or bread) is the best course of action if it has a demonstrable benefit for some, does not cause demonstrable harm to others at the supplied levels, does not affect the appearance and quality of the product, and is more effective/efficient at reaching people in need than other intervention strategies.

                      So no, if a substance that didn’t adversely affect people was included in the water supply to help other people keep their feet, I would not be opposed to it.

                      Frankly I don’t get the big deal – being around a car or logburner is much more hazardous than fluoridated water.

                      I suppose what I am saying is that I believe it is a fundamental right that people get to choose what they put in their bodies. I’m fortunate in that it’s relatively easy for me to avoid fluoridated water (I drink bore or rain water to avoid chlorination).

                      Yes, it’s a balancing of rights to a certain degree (although, as you show, those worked up enough about flouridation would also have other issues with the municipal water supply). Excuse me for getting terse, but in the cases of folate in bread and water fluoridation, it’s the right to pretend to be able to control micronutrient intake (have you tested your bore for fluoride or other non-H2O substances? Down to less than one part per million?) against the right of other people to live healthier lives.

            • Anne 2.2.1.1.4.2
              16 June 2013 at 9:22 pm

              Yeah.. that’s probably because the fluoride occurs naturally in the water and has done since time immemorial. There are places in Europe and elsewhere where this is the case. But not in NZ.

              • Colonial Viper …
                16 June 2013 at 9:34 pm

                Yeah.. that’s probably because the fluoride occurs naturally in the water and has done since time immemorial. There are places in Europe and elsewhere where this is the case. But not in NZ.

                It looks to me like less than 5% of people have access to naturally occurring fluoride in water.

                In the UK for instance wikipedia says 0.5M people receive naturally fluoridated water.

          • muzza 2.2.1.1.5
            17 June 2013 at 8:01 am

            Handful of rebels…

            Oops, its the emotionally charged, we know which science is the righteous science, brigade, out in full force!

            Think about the children, they cry, while dismissing the opportunity to discuss potential harm caused by the mass medicating!

            Brilliant attitude!

      • Ugly Truth 2.2.2
        16 June 2013 at 9:23 am

        Can’t cope with the facts, eh Pasupial? Have some more.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GX0s-4AyWfI

        • Pasupial 2.2.2.1
          16 June 2013 at 9:41 am

          @ Ugly
          The facts I can cope with fine. It’s pusillanimous hysteria and delusion that I have a problem with…

          @Bad12
          That’s not science – that’s a manipulative list from someone that regards pseudosciences such as; naturopathy, and chiropracty, as valid. I have no time for Paul Conman – link to someone with scientific credibility please. Here’s a link for you in the meantime:
          http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/02/anti-fluoridation-crankery-how-1960s/

          • Ugly Truth 2.2.2.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 10:30 am

            Let me know when you can comprehend the the difference, Pasupial.

            Fluoride is a poison. It is a roughly as toxic as lead or arsenic, and it accumulates in the body. Fluorosis causes bone hardening, which makes osteoporosis more hazardous, and fluorine can cause loss of IQ and docility.

            Fluoride was find used by the Nazis to keep prisoners docile and manageable, Later it was introduced into US water supplies under the watch of Andrew Mellon, a Nazi supporter and eugenicist.

            • Te Reo Putake 2.2.2.1.1.1
              16 June 2013 at 10:37 am

              So what? Fluoride in water is not at poisonous levels and your repeated Godwins make no difference to the argument.

              • bad12 …
                16 June 2013 at 2:05 pm

                His point is that the amounts of fluoride added to the water supply while not toxic in themselves have the ability to build up in the body bonding with other metallic elements as the body has not the means to expel an over-supply of fluorides…

                • McFlock …
                  16 June 2013 at 3:40 pm

                  I’d like a link about fluoride compounds accumulating in the body tissues or joints manner of heavy metals, rather than simply being consumed at higher levels than they can be excreted.

                  It’s a claim UT has made repeatedly without providing any evidence, and I suspect has similar provenance to their Jacques Cousteau “quote”, which turned out to be bunk.

              • Ugly Truth …
                16 June 2013 at 2:08 pm

                Godwin’s law no longer applies.

            • Lanthanide 2.2.2.1.1.2
              16 June 2013 at 11:19 am

              Hey UT, I’m sure you’re also against dihydrogen monoxide?

              Here are some facts about it:
              * Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
              * Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
              * Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
              * DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
              * Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
              * Contributes to soil erosion.
              * Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.

              There are many more problems with it, too, but that’s just a short list to give you a taste.

              Would you be surprised to learn that DHMO is found in all public drinking water, at concentrations that can lead to all of the above problems? The Nazis also made extensive use of DHMO in their concentration camps. Surely we should ban it too?

              • Te Reo Putake …
                16 June 2013 at 11:32 am

                Excessive amounts of DHMO have stopped me mowing the lawns this morning. Totally buggered my golf plans for this arvo too. Ban it now!

              • Dv …
                16 June 2013 at 11:38 am

                Also produced devastating explosions under appropriate conditions.

              • Ugly Truth …
                16 June 2013 at 2:05 pm

                Lanthanide, A fish in DHMO will die from oxygen deprivation.

                There are no shortage of morons who do not comprehend the difference between DHMO and water.

                • Lanthanide …
                  16 June 2013 at 3:10 pm

                  “There are no shortage of morons who do not comprehend the difference between DHMO and water.”

                  Nor a shortage of morons who do not comprehend the difference between what the nazis did as experiments and torture, vs what health professionals do under informed science for the betterment of public health.

                  • Ugly Truth …
                    16 June 2013 at 4:16 pm

                    You have missed the point entirely, Lanthanide.

                    The Nazis didn’t give fluoride to prisoners as an experiment or as a form of torture, and health professionals were never originally informed of the actual science, they were simply fed the Carnegie-Mellon propaganda.

                    “In Australia, the Dental Health & Research Foundation, which has such names as Colgate, Kellogg and other ex-Farben associates listed among it’s ‘governors and contributors’, has been irreverently but accurately dubbed “the Fluoride Mafia”. Closely allied with this Sydney University ‘Foundation’, in its printed promotional claims for fluorides and fluoridation, is ‘Foundation 41’. Unfortunately, the data of the “thorough investigations” said to have been carried out by the Foundation into fluoride, its benefits and its hazards, have never been made available, despite numerous appeals. A recent ABC Science Show’s examination of the scientific integrity of Foundation 41 may explain the elusive data. America is literally bursting at the seams with such Foundations, but amongst the earlier names were the Rockefeller Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation and the Ford Foundation. It is necessary to mention these specifically because they were the first Foundations to make grants in the population (control) field and the Carnegie family merged with the Mellon family Institute to create the Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh in 1967.”

                    http://www.fluoridationfacts.com/education/propaganda/870000_perkins.htm

                    • Pasupial …
                      17 June 2013 at 7:34 am

                      @ Ugly

                      If only your passion for this nonsense could be turned to some cause more productive than endangering the health of Aotearoan communities.

                      At 2.2 I say that: “I think it would be fair if councils were to provide a tank of rain water for those who want to avoid the fluoridated town supply.” I was going to further suggest that this might also be an advantage for attracting European tourists, but am now starting to think that might be a very bad idea.

                      If the anti-fluoridation mob were to be given power over a large vat of water in every town; how long would it before they started drowning witches?

  3. Saarbo 3
    16 June 2013 at 9:04 am

    Bill Ralston on The Nation. The Nation is providing an ignorant and mildly intelligent man a way bigger pedestal for his opinions than he deserves.

    Russel Norman…should be our next Prime Minister, excellent!

    • Rogue Trooper 3.1
      16 June 2013 at 1:10 pm

      Thankful that I passed on The Nation; Bill Ralston, sigh.

      • Saarbo 3.1.1
        16 June 2013 at 3:05 pm

        fell back to sleep watching Q&A, susan wood makes me almost want paul holmes back…i wonder what selection criteria TVNZ use to get Q&A hosts?

        and Fran O Sullivan’s grin is really scarey….what the hell is she grinning about.

  4. marty mars 4
    16 June 2013 at 9:32 am

    The NZEI union has been asked to address concerns held by some staff at Auckland’s Kelston Intermediate School over reciting a Maori prayer before lessons start each day.

    The school recites a karakia at the start of its weekly assembly and in classrooms before lessons begin.

    Staff deliver the prayer, which asks for the day to be blessed, help with work and to have a good week.

    An NZEI spokeswoman confirmed the union was intervening at the school.

    This story intrigued me because the principal says

    he had no idea some staff were unhappy with karakia in the classroom until contacted by the union representative.

    What has happened around communication at that school – I can’t understand why any issues couldn’t be raised with the principal instead of going to the union.

    and he said

    I guess what they might have been inquiring about is the presence of karakia, etc, within school so we talked about what we’re doing is not a religious thing but a cultural thing.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890829

    A karakia by definition is spiritual and that is the point of it – sure it is in Te reo Māori and is good practice for pronunciation but to take away the cultural context is not correct imo.

    • joe90 4.1
      16 June 2013 at 10:25 am

      This is recited where I work part time and doesn’t compromise to my godlessness.

      Whakataka te hau ki te uru,
      Whakataka te hau ki te tonga.

      Kia mākinakina ki uta,
      Kia mātaratara ki tai.

      E hī ake ana te atākura he tio,
      he huka, he hauhunga.

      Haumi e! Hui e! Tāiki e!

      http://folksong.org.nz/whakataka_te_hau/

      • marty mars 4.1.1
        16 June 2013 at 10:34 am

        I love that karakia Joe – thanks for reminding me.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 11:01 am

          NZ children need an introduction to a spiritual practice. And a karakia seems perfect for the job.

          • QoT 4.1.1.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 11:39 am

            I disagree – there’s no evidence any context is being given. When you tell kids “now we’re standing for the karakia/Lord’s Prayer/Pledge of Allegiance” they’re not being asked to think about or understand anything, just recite the words which the authority figure at the front of class is telling them to recite.

            If there’s actual education/discussion around why they do the karakia, awesome. But the original article doesn’t tell us that.

            • Saarbo 4.1.1.1.1.1
              16 June 2013 at 12:13 pm

              yep. agree.

              • logie97 …
                16 June 2013 at 1:14 pm

                Just so we can keep some balance in this, the Abrahamic faiths/culture are the culture of Tauiwi are they not and adopted by the Pacific cultures.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  16 June 2013 at 1:25 pm

                  Well, so is the alphabet. But it has been widely adopted and accepted by all. What was the exact point you were making?

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.2
              16 June 2013 at 12:18 pm

              So the NZEI is going to encourage that the activity is given some educational context? Well, that would be fine. If that’s what they are intending.

            • weka 4.1.1.1.1.3
              16 June 2013 at 2:17 pm

              “I disagree – there’s no evidence any context is being given. When you tell kids “now we’re standing for the karakia/Lord’s Prayer/Pledge of Allegiance” they’re not being asked to think about or understand anything, just recite the words which the authority figure at the front of class is telling them to recite.”

              I would expect an intermediate school in Auckland to have the cultural context spread throughout the curriculum and day to day goings on of the school (as it should be).

              The other schools quoted in the article appear to have developed use of karakia as part of cultural practice within the school over time.

              • Colonial Viper …
                16 June 2013 at 2:57 pm

                More basically, there is a place for traditions and rituals in our society. Might as well pick good ones for the young ones.

        • weka 4.1.1.2
          16 June 2013 at 2:13 pm

          Beautiful karakia, I hadn’t seen that before. The explanation in the link is really good – showing not just the translation and structure of karakia, but the cultural differences, and how karakia is about taking us into relationship with the world (which is actually how some Christians and other religions use prayer, for anyone thinking it’s just about having an imaginary friend).

      • mac1 4.1.2
        16 June 2013 at 12:13 pm

        “Almighty God, humbly acknowledging our need for Thy guidance in all things, and laying aside all private and personal interests, we beseech Thee to grant that we may conduct the affairs of this House and of our country to the glory of Thy holy name, the maintenance of true religion and justice, the honour of the Queen, and the public welfare, peace, and tranquillity of New Zealand, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”

        This is recited where some people work, too, and it hasn’t compromised with their ‘godlessness’ either.

        • Rogue Trooper 4.1.2.1
          16 June 2013 at 1:13 pm

          Interestingly, it was hearing that prayer, and the farce that follows it often, that sparked my interest in watching Parliament live. Major Frank Burns.

    • Rogue Trooper 4.2
      16 June 2013 at 11:39 am

      Communication Breakdown, all round.

    • McFlock 4.3
      16 June 2013 at 3:31 pm

      One of the many unsung roles of union reps – a worker has a concern and (for whatever reason) doesn’t feel comfortable approaching the employer about it themselves. Sorting out issues in the workplace so bad feelings don’t fester and harm the organisation.

  5. Chrissy 5
    16 June 2013 at 10:12 am

    Did simon bridges get a nice new 32ml cancer unit for Tauranga for being a good boy?Funny to see paula bennett holding the high moral ground about private info being sent a person who is supposedly blackmailing her Dept in a bid to have her child returned to her, when she herself blackmailed two beneficiaries, who challenged her policies, by threatening publication of their private and personal details. Which she in fact did. Deeply hypocritical.

    • Rogue Trooper 5.1
      16 June 2013 at 11:40 am

      Cancer, heart disease, diabetes and aged-care is where the money is being thrown.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1
        16 June 2013 at 12:19 pm

        Gotta look after the middle aged middle classes

        • Populuxe1 5.1.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 12:26 pm

          Which is peculiar as heart disease and diabetes are the big health problems affecting Maori and Pacific Islanders, and cancer is no great respecter of ethnicity – methinks you have scored an own goal.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1
            16 June 2013 at 1:17 pm

            Ethnicity? Where did I make any assumption on the ethnicity of the comfortable middle classes?

            Seems like a racist own goal there yourself, Pop.

            • Populuxe1 5.1.1.1.1.1
              16 June 2013 at 3:16 pm

              Looking at the available poverty and health statistics, I see nothing racist in my assumptions.

          • rosy 5.1.1.1.2
            16 June 2013 at 10:23 pm

            “Which is peculiar as heart disease and diabetes are the big health problems affecting Maori and Pacific Islanders, “
            Given that diabetes and heart disease are huge health problems world-wide, don’t you think there might be something other than ethnicity in play?

            “Gotta look after the middle aged middle classes”
            Heart disease and Type-2 diabetes are also serious problems for low socio-economic Gen-Xers.

            Type 2 diabetes most often occurs in adulthood usually after the ages of 30 – 40 years. However, increasing numbers of teenagers and children are developing Type 2 diabetes. New estimates indicate 500 young people aged between 10 and 18 years have the disease that was, only a few years ago, virtually unknown in this age group.

            I reckon spending money to to prevent as much heart disease and Type-2 diabetes as possible – to enable people to work, and care for themselves, to reduce sickness and invalid benefits and reduce the need for expensive heart surgeries, dialysis for kidney failure and amputations due to poor circulation might be a good public health spend for taxpayers of whatever age or class.

            • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1.2.1
              16 June 2013 at 10:31 pm

              that is revealing about the incidence among the young rosy. You may not have used the term ‘public health’ correctly; this funding is likely to be directed to secondary and tertiary interventions.

              • rosy …
                16 June 2013 at 10:51 pm

                Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough – I meant the Public Health spend to prevent heart disease and Type-2 diabetes. These may later require secondary and tertiary interventions once the disease are established.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.2.2
              17 June 2013 at 12:04 am

              ““Gotta look after the middle aged middle classes”
              Heart disease and Type-2 diabetes are also serious problems for low socio-economic Gen-Xers.”

              Yes, but I suspect that CV’s point was that the money follows middle class, middle aged concerns. In this case, the fact that the low socio-economic classes benefit is a side effect.

              /cynicism.

  6. Morrissey 6
    16 June 2013 at 10:51 am

    The Sensible Sentencing Trust is not, and never was, a charity
    Sunday with Chris Laidlaw, Radio NZ National, Sunday 16 June 2013

    Main topic for discussion today is the deregistration of charities. First up, an interesting interview with the former director of CORSO, a real charity which was effectively destroyed by John Key’s hero Robert Muldoon in the late 1970s. Then, like night follows day, just as I predicted to my “companion”, this was followed by a respectful interview with….yes, you guessed it!…the utterly despicable Garth “The Knife” McVicar, Imperial Grand Dragon of the knife-killing advocates, the S.S. Trust.

    Appalled I flicked off the following email….

    Dear Chris,
    Jeremy Rose interviewed the S.S. Trust’s Garth McVicar as if he and his organization were a benevolent organization trying to do good work. In fact, the S.S. Trust is the very opposite of benevolent. When a teenage boy was chased down on a Manurewa street and stabbed to death in 2008, McVicar and his organization led a public campaign of defamation of the dead boy and heaped abuse and scorn on his parents and his wider family.

    To compound this, he championed the man who had killed the boy as an “upstanding New Zealander.” Far from moderating these extreme views, McVicar amplified them in his book, entitled with brazen cynicism Justice: Speaking up for Crime’s Silent Victims.

    McVicar continually portrays himself as a victim of official discrimination, as well as a victims’ rights advocate. He is neither. And his organization is not, and never was, a charity unless that word has been drained of meaning.

    Yours in disgust at the continual publicity afforded the S.S. Trust,
    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    ————————————————-

    Hopefully Chris Laidlaw will read it out. He did read out THIS one that I sent him exactly two months ago….

    Garth McVicar should be declared persona non grata; why is he still being treated with deference?

    Dear Chris,
    In the lead item on this morning’s Mediawatch, Colin Peacock spoke of Garth McVicar’s Sensible Sentencing Trust as if it were a victims’ advocacy organization.

    The facts are somewhat different.

    In 2008, after a teenage boy was chased down and stabbed to death on the street in Manurewa, Garth McVicar was loud in his condemnation—of the dead boy. McVicar spoke sympathetically and supportively about the killer, and he went on to lead an extraordinarily brutal media campaign of character assassination of the victim and his family.

    In his recent authorized biography, McVicar reiterated his support for the killer.

    I am disturbed that Mediawatch, and indeed Radio New Zealand National, still treats this vicious and cruel person with respect.

    Yours sincerely,
    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

  7. Colonial Viper 7
    16 June 2013 at 11:11 am

    2007: which leading American politician spoke out most strongly against spying on ordinary US citizens?

    Here is the quote:

    “This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.

    That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/who-said-it-administation-acts-violating-civil-liberties-way-enhance-our-security

    • Rogue Trooper 7.1
      16 June 2013 at 11:48 am

      His earlier positions, even as President, have been re-played on the television news.
      That McCain sure is a Warhawk; interesting that the USS Forrestal fire was in ’67.

  8. Pascal's bookie 8
    16 June 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Rumours of Snowden’s exaggeration have been exaggerated:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/

    Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed “simply based on an analyst deciding that.”
    If the NSA wants “to listen to the phone,” an analyst’s decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. “I was rather startled,” said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.
    Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA’s formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls.
    Because the same legal standards that apply to phone calls also apply to e-mail messages, text messages, and instant messages, Nadler’s disclosure indicates the NSA analysts could also access the contents of Internet communications without going before a court and seeking approval.
    The disclosure appears to confirm some of the allegations made by Edward Snowden, a former NSA infrastructure analyst who leaked classified documents to the Guardian. Snowden said in a video interview that, while not all NSA analysts had this ability, he could from Hawaii “wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president.”
    There are serious “constitutional problems” with this approach, said Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation who has litigated warrantless wiretapping cases. “It epitomizes the problem of secret laws.”
    The NSA yesterday declined to comment to CNET. A representative said Nadler was not immediately available. (This is unrelated to last week’s disclosure that the NSA is currently collecting records of the metadata of all domestic Verizon calls, but not the actual contents of the conversations.)

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      16 June 2013 at 12:30 pm

      And many of those “low ranking analysts” are not even govt employees, they are private sector consultants like Snowden.

      Basically the whole issue has moved beyond that of simple spin; when it comes to matters this important the authorities feel that they have to lie, for our own good.

    • Populuxe1 8.2
      16 June 2013 at 12:31 pm

      The only thing that surprises me is that a US politician would be so niave, and has clearly not read the Patriot Act and considered its implications.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1
        16 June 2013 at 12:37 pm

        The author of the Patriot Act, Rep Sensenbrenner, regards how his Act is being used today as an outright abuse of the law, and says that the Act was designed to prevent exactly this kind of “dragnet” surveillance. He is actively campaigning in the House on this.

      • Pascal's bookie 8.2.2
        16 June 2013 at 12:51 pm

        Interesting Pop. What part of the Patriot Act are you talking about?

        I ask because it’s a really long Act, I’m surprised you’ve read it to be honest. The relevant Act here would appear to be FISA though:

        That law says surveillance may be authorized by the attorney general and director of national intelligence without prior approval by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, as long as minimization requirements and general procedures blessed by the court are followed.
        A requirement of the 2008 law is that the NSA “may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States.” A possible interpretation of that language, some legal experts said, is that the agency may vacuum up everything it can domestically — on the theory that indiscriminate data acquisition was not intended to “target” a specific American citizen.

        That’s how they grab everything (yet to be tested in any court AFAIA), it isn’t deemed collected until someone looks at the data, (another ‘interpretation’ of an Act that is yet to be tested in the courts). From there (having it on file) analysts seem to be have been given authority to look at what’s been grabbed without a warrant under FISA, or anything else. So where in the Patriot Act is this made legal, seeing it would appear to be in breach of the 4th amendment? Please enlighten me.

        • Pascal's bookie 8.2.2.1
          16 June 2013 at 1:05 pm

          I’ll give a a hint, start at section 200, look for language that authorises warrantless looking at intercepted comms.

          Pay close attention to 204. Hint: FISA or GTFO

  9. johnm 9
    16 June 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Here’s a good example of a typical horror story of Privatisation in the U$K.
    Thames Water had been set up with the taxpayer’s commonwealth but under the neoliberal madness of Thatcher and the profit mad greedies following it’s been prvatised. On a turnover of over a billion pounds they made a profit of half a billion which they don’t pay tax on as they’re registered in the Carribean somewhere ! 🙁 ! people are complaining about water being too expensive and they’re getting sewage contaminated water.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSrhx_1Kt0c

  11. Rogue Trooper 11
    16 June 2013 at 3:16 pm

    New Zealand not pedalling those trade rick-shaws fast enough
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890893
    not enough Mandarins in the salad.

    Baby-Boomers loading the Gen Y up with debt
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10890779
    Love Bites.

    Blogging Handbrakes
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890802

    oooh, Dr. Naughty
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890813

    “the insidious creep of inefficiency” doing the rounds.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890800
    in NZ Hospitals.

    The ol’ Elder Abuse; reports tip of the ice-berg.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890751
    better the Devil you know.

  12. marty mars 12
    16 June 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Good response from Marama and The Greens to the latest from labour

    A suggestion by the Labour candidate for Ikaroa-Rāwhiti that New Zealand should ‘stop immigrant workers coming here’ has been slammed by the Green Party.

    Responding to comments Meka Whaitiri made in an iwi radio interview on Friday, Green Party candidate Marama Davidson said such attitudes were out of date and out of place in Ikaroa-Rāwhiti.

    “I could not believe the Labour candidate seriously suggested that we should adopt the xenophobic policies of the far right” said Ms Davidson who worked for ten years at the Human Rights Commission.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/16/xenophobia-has-no-place-in-ikaroa-rawhiti/

    I hope this pathetic attempt to terrorise is treated with the contempt it deserves by voters.

    • Populuxe1 12.1
      16 June 2013 at 3:33 pm

      What never seems to be addressed is what happens if, and likely, when Maori cease to even be the largest minority in Aotearoa

      • weka 12.1.1
        16 June 2013 at 4:03 pm

        You mean when most NZers are Polynesian (Maori and PI)? That’s going to happen within a few generations.

        • Populuxe1 12.1.1.1
          16 June 2013 at 7:34 pm

          Pacific Islanders are not tangata whenua and I find your lumping them together to be odd

      • marty mars 12.1.2
        16 June 2013 at 5:39 pm

        Tangata whenua will continue to fight for their right to equality as guaranteed in the Treaty and as the indigenous people of these islands, and those opposed will continue to oppose it. That is what has, is, and will, continue to happen until equality is achieved imo.

    • weka 12.2
      16 June 2013 at 3:41 pm

      I’m not greatly in favour of increasing general immigration to NZ, so was pleased to see this from Davidson

      “Rather than banning all migrant workers, the Green Party would support a review of the special permit process that seasonal workers come in on to fill so-called labour shortages”

  13. Ugly Truth 13
    16 June 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Kim Hill interviewing Sibel Edmonds:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2558757/sibel-edmonds-whistle-blowing

    Solid interview by Kim Hill, but it mainly covers Edmonds’ background with the FBI, not her more recent work on Gladio-B and the Syria angle. Some nuggets were Edmonds’ accounts of the FBI’s lack of accountability, rewarding of unlawful behaviour and post 9/11 contact with Ayman al-Zawahiri. Also good info on the US states secrets privilege, the US mainstream press withholding damaging material, and data collected by security agencies being held for blackmail purposes.

    Looks like Kim Hill doesn’t know what due process is either.

  14. Rogue Trooper 14
    16 June 2013 at 4:15 pm

    The worst wild-fire in Colorado history
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10890898
    it’s a Cisco Inferno, The Cisco Kid was a friend of mine,
    He drink whiskey, Poncho drink the wine
    They rode the sunset, horse was made of steel
    The outlaws had us pinned down at the fort
    Cisco came in blastin’ drinkin’ port.

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    16 June 2013 at 4:32 pm

    The largest ever flood on the Danube
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/europe/news/article.cfm?l_id=7&objectid=10889241
    cost of flooding to Germany alone, 11B Euros, 55,000 people may need to be evacuated.
    Down the Carpathian drain

    • johnm 15.1
      16 June 2013 at 6:03 pm

      Hi Rogue Trooper
      Climate Change. We’re no longer in the relatively stable climate since the last ice age ended but are in a new climate of an open ended warming world in despite of which some places are getting colder i.e. UK. Arctic Ice cap retreat is causing that.
      Note torrential rain in the Nelson area one woman killed by a slip,we’re getting it too.

  16. Rogue Trooper 16
    16 June 2013 at 6:40 pm

    from te Newz;
    Devoy smacks Peters’ race-card hand; “stigmatizing a population for his own benefit”.(even Fran concurs 🙂 ).
    Morsi under pressure from hardline Sunni clerics to go to war with Syria.
    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Morsi-cuts-Egypts-Syria-ties-backs-no-fly-zone-316665

  17. Rogue Trooper 17
    16 June 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Despite best efforts (things that do not work) Child Abuse in New Zealand has risen by nearly a third in the last five years; 21 000 new cases last year, 4000 in state care, of which 21 children were subjected to further abuse by carers

    “Horrific, we should be ashamed…a lot of policy written, yet a gap between policy and practice in this country”. – Judge Carolyn Henwood.

    Robert Schlaifer on the THEORY – PRACTICE GAP.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schlaifer
    Bring to test as soon as possible a number of alternate designs-pick one that combined good characterictics with few developmental problems-then work intensely to develop it.
    Now that should not be too difficult now, should it?

  18. infused 18
    16 June 2013 at 9:37 pm

    fyi, where is the evidence of water fluoridation having a positive effect? Curious. Bought a water distiller this week.

    Doesn’t toothpaste do enough of a job on it’s own?

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    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours as of 6:06 am on Wednesday, April 17 are:Must read: Secrecy shrouds which projects might be fast-tracked RNZ Farah HancockScoop: Revealed: Luxon has seven staffers working on social media content - partly paid for by taxpayer Newshub ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Fighting poverty on the holiday highway
    Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago

  • Bernard's six-stack of substacks at 6:26 pm
    Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • At a glance – Is the science settled?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • Apposite Quotations.
    How Long Is Long Enough? Gaza under Israeli bombardment, July 2014. This posting is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    Bowalley Road
    3 days ago

  • What’s a life worth now?
    You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Howling at the Moon
    Karl du Fresne writes –  There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Newshub is Dead.
    I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
    Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago

  • Was Hawkesby entirely wrong?
    David Farrar  writes –  The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • PRC shadow looms as the Solomons head for election
    PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time. A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Climate Change: Criminal ecocide
    We are in the middle of a climate crisis. Last year was (again) the hottest year on record. NOAA has just announced another global coral bleaching event. Floods are threatening UK food security. So naturally, Shane Jones wants to make it easier to mine coal: Resources Minister Shane Jones ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago

  • Is saving one minute of a politician's time worth nearly $1 billion?
    Is speeding up the trip to and from Wellington airport by 12 minutes worth spending up more than $10 billion? Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me in the last day to 8:26 am today are:The Lead: Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • Long Tunnel or Long Con?
    Yesterday it was revealed that Transport Minister had asked Waka Kotahi to look at the options for a long tunnel through Wellington. State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    4 days ago

  • Smoke And Mirrors.
    You're a fraud, and you know itBut it's too good to throw it all awayAnyone would do the sameYou've got 'em goingAnd you're careful not to show itSometimes you even fool yourself a bitIt's like magicBut it's always been a smoke and mirrors gameAnyone would do the sameForty six billion ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • What is Mexico doing about climate change?
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The June general election in Mexico could mark a turning point in ensuring that the country’s climate policies better reflect the desire of its citizens to address the climate crisis, with both leading presidential candidates expressing support for renewable energy. Mexico is the ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • State of humanity, 2024
    2024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?When I say 2024 I really mean the state of humanity in 2024.Saturday night, we watched Civil War because that is one terrifying cliff we've ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Govt’s Wellington tunnel vision aims to ease the way to the airport (but zealous promoters of cycl...
    Buzz from the Beehive A pet project and governmental tunnel vision jump out from the latest batch of ministerial announcements. The government is keen to assure us of its concern for the wellbeing of our pets. It will be introducing pet bonds in a change to the Residential Tenancies Act ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago

  • The case for cultural connectedness
    A recent report generated from a Growing Up in New Zealand (GUiNZ) survey of 1,224 rangatahi Māori aged 11-12 found: Cultural connectedness was associated with fewer depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms and better quality of life. That sounds cut and dry. But further into the report the following appears: Cultural connectedness is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
    David Farrar writes –    The Herald reports: From the gory details of job-cuts news, you’d think the public service was being eviscerated.   While the media’s view of the cuts is incomplete, it’s also true that departments have been leaking the particulars faster than a Wellington ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    5 days ago

  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago

  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago

  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago

  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago

  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago

  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago

  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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