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The Standard

Open mike 17/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 17th, 2013 - 189 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

189 comments on “Open mike 17/06/2013”

  1. Morrissey 1

    LIARS OF OUR TIME
    No. 21: Tim Groser

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Trade Minister Tim Groser, on New Zealand-China relationships, as our meat rots on Chinese wharves, Chinese fears grow about DCD residues in our dairy products, and a double-invoicing scandal has seriously affected our kiwifruit exports. (TV1, Q+A, Sunday 16 June 2013)
    http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/tim-groser-interview-5465968

    See also….
    No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”
    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”
    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    No.13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-638881
    No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”
    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
    
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
    
No. 6 NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”

    
No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594

    No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”

    No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    
No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
    
No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

  2. Descendant Of Sssmith 2

    No sign of the privatisation juggernaut stopping in the UK.

    Probation next.

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cclXIdneMmU

    • Morrissey 3.1

      Mediaworks is in receivership

      It would be a good start if they closed down those useless radio stations, and made sure that Mitch Harris never got another job in broadcasting.

      • karol 3.2.1

        I have no idea of how these receivership-to-takeover deals work. But it all seems like a bit of a scam to me: corproate fails, big corporate picks up the pieces to their advantage.

        • mickysavage 3.2.1.1

          Selling the assets to a new entity often means that unsecured creditors of the old entity whistle. The Government’s very generous deferral of payments for licenses offered to Mediaworks is going to need a bit of a look into.

          • Veutoviper 3.2.1.1.1

            I seem to remember that they had repaid the loan last year.

            An updated article on the Stuff site appears to confirm that the loan was repaid in October 2012.

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8804077/MediaWorks-to-enter-receivership

            “Debts saddled on to MediaWorks as part of the Ironbridge purchase have weighed heavily on the business, and on several occasions debt covenants have been broken. In 2010 the company sought, and was granted, a $43m loan from the Government to pay for radio spectrum licence renewals. That loan was repaid in October 2012. “

          • grumpy 3.2.1.1.2

            You know how it works….Fox News goes to the Reciever, after having taken the shares off the owners for $1, pays off the creditors, gives the previous owners 20% holding with no voting rights and walks away with the whole shooting match for bugger all.
            Fair and balanced just in time for next year’s election!

      • Rogue Trooper 3.2.2

        700M of debt, interest sucked it. Private equity firms / banks (offshore) to take the bulk of the Hits. Julie Christie, sigh, there go production values.

        RNZ: The NZ Special Effects industry: in contrast to the superior conditions overseas, only 3% locally are working a 40 hour week, majority working 50-80 and up to 100 hours. Hollywood driving down wages, putting companies out of business and many are leaving the occupation.
        Excellent Industry development from Peter and John Key, just climactic!

    • Gee I hope the government made sure that all those sweetheart deals were secured. There is a $43 million dollar loan that may be under threat – http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=17018

    • Colonial Viper 3.4

      Sure sign of John Key’s economic recovery kicking in.

      • Rob 3.4.1

        Its been in the poo for a long time and unfortuantly is a current trend of large private equity purchases going bad due to the very leveraged nature of the transaction. Just as a beside this explains why the key team from Korda Mentha and various senior M&A trading bank reps were all out to dinner last Sat , they must have got all their plans that they had been working on for many months signed off with permision to procede.

        • NickS 3.4.1.1

          This.

          The equity firms are paying the price for trying to profit off too-good-to-be-true loans used to buy assets that weren’t destined for long-term increases in profitability.

    • NickS 3.5

      Muwahahahahaha…

      Sadly though this doesn’t mean the end of More FM or The Rock (aka “not more pop-rock crap”).

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 3.5.1

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8804077/MediaWorks-to-dispute-tax-payment

        The way the stuff article reads it looks like they are likely to lose their case of rorting the tax payer of $400 million and are restructuring to carry over all the debt apart from what is likely to be owed to the tax payer.

        The debt naturally will belong to the old company.

        • NickS 3.5.1.1

          Unless IRD grows a spine and does the legal equivalent of a colony drop on them to recover the owed taxes.

        • Veutoviper 3.5.1.2

          According to RNZ National news, the tax amount in dispute is $22 million – not $400m.

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/137826/tv3's-owners-in-receivership

          As I commented in 3.2.1.1.1 above, the Stuff article also states towards the bottom, that Mediaworks repaid the $43m loan to the government last October.

          • mickysavage 3.5.1.2.1

            Right you are Veuto. I bet Joyce is happy it was repaid. The detail on this will be interesting though and the proposal to pay all creditors is somewhat unusual. The treatment of tax will be one of those issues as noted by DoS.

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 3.5.1.2.1.1

              It seems that this is a construct to not pay the tax they will likely be found to owe.

              They are making it quite clear other debt will be carried over.

              So having already evaded the tax once they now seek to evade it again.

              The smirk on the receivers face as he talked about not carrying that debt over was nauseating.

              I can see no good reason why they shouldn’t have to reduce costs, restructure, etc in order to repay their debt.

              Surely given the stated intention to repay debt other than the potential IRD debt this can mainly be seen as a tax rort.

              Notice the Company who did the some of the SCF receivership, the Solid Energy report, the Sky City report for the government, the Crafar farms deal i.e. the receivers and Sky City pop up again with the past executive to go on the new board.

              . It ‘s such a small group of people ripping us off they keep tripping over themselves. Just waiting for Shipley to turn up.

            • Retired Engineer 3.5.1.2.1.2

              MS,

              Always, always the PAYE tax payer gets screwed. And in this country, with so many loopholes and no tax on property dealings. And no taxes on the sale of businesses. The PAYE worker gets screwed.

              Not that John Key or Davis Shearer gives a rats arse. They will still get invites to warm boxes.

              As sure as night follows day, as sure as water runs own hill, the structure of this transfer of assets from bad company to BS company will reduces the amount of tax NZ gets.

              Fools and Crooks.

      • Rob 3.5.2

        No I dont think so Nick, there has been a large degree of planning behind this to ensure that it continues as a going concern. Evidently they want to retain all staff as well as the business at an operating level does well but unfortunatly is so highly levearged that its overall earnings are poor. The key idea is the banks want to get rid of the PE owners and get a better functioing board on.

      • felix 3.5.3

        “Sadly though this doesn’t mean the end of More FM or The Rock”

        Sadly no, if anything goes it’ll be KiwiFM.

        • Tigger 3.5.3.1

          http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10891114

          What, the taxpayer will be out of pocket so Mediaworks can go on? I say we take it out in NZOA funding.

        • NickS 3.5.3.2

          :(

          It’s pretty much the only mainstream radio station mediaworks owns that isn’t irritating as hell.

          • Descendant Of Sssmith 3.5.3.2.1

            Tune in radio is a good friend

            Punk stations, alt rock, flower power, sport, childrens, elvis, radio stations from all over the world…….

            Failing that a MP3 DVD with 2000 songs set to random play or streaming from your PC.

            Radio without ads!
            Streaming radio killed the advertising star!

            • NickS 3.5.3.2.1.1

              More youtube did it (and a HDD with 20+gigs of music) 😛

              Racking up the stuff they no longer play on Hauraki is probably why my net usage is so high lawl.

      • David H 3.5.4

        Or the abysmal radio Live with Plonker and co.

  3. Sanctuary 4

    Another day, another ridiculous post by Martyn Bradbury on the dailyblog, which he is turning into another vanity project for his personal fantasies. Already, I have noticed the frequency of posts from his more credible bloggers is dropping.

    Someone ought to take him aside and tell him making shit up and pretending it is based on some sort of inside information is not smart politics, it is just pathetic and slightly cringe worthy, but I suspect Mr. Bradbury is man whose ears are painted on.

    • karol 4.1

      Which post of Bomber’s are you referring to: the one on the by-election? The one on Dunne-Vance?

      I don’t always agree with Bomber, but I most often do, and I like his rhetorical flair. And he has been doing a great service to the left in providing platforms, online & on TV, for a range of significant left wingers.

      • Tim 4.1.1

        I’m picking its the Dunne-Vance thing. HOWEVER there are a couple of things to do with ‘the leak’ that may have been overlooked. e.g. The motivation for the leak – the threat that it was going to be sanitised/further sanitised.

        • aerobubble 4.1.1.1

          Dunne three strikes. No asset sales said Dunne in election mode, membership fiasco meanig Dunne jumped before he was pushed, and now disclosing all his emails in a Nationals security investigation.

        • karol 4.1.1.2

          The Dunne-Vance post is not really off the wall. There’s always been the possibility of someone else having done the leak. Bomber seems to have taken the substance of the post from comments coming into TDB’s tip line.

          • Tim 4.1.1.2.1

            Indeed. I’m suggesting that report actually got ‘leaked’ pretty bloody early on in the proceedings – if you know what I mean, and I suspect you do. (Before/during all that numbering schema, and all that other spook crap was applied).

            The trap people have fallen into is that they’ve assumed that any response to its findings (interim or otherwise) being ‘leaked, were going to be immediate.

            Oh, and NOR am I suggesting that the person closest to its production was necessarily responsible. There are of course friends/family/others who do things thinking they’re acting in a person’s best interests.

            Anyway …. it doesn’t really matter that much now, except in the sense that the various machinations going on now are only of use to those wanting political scoring points, and those that are claiming knowlwdge of what went on are all as bad as each other in any event.

            Thankfully, it saw the light of day BEFORE it could be sanitised and manipulated further – which (I think) was reason for its ‘leak’

          • Populuxe1 4.1.1.2.2

            Andrea Vance is friendly with Jordan Williams, to the point of helping him make some contacts in London. Jordan Williams is, of course, Simon Lusk’s minion. I’m surprised no one has picked up on this.

      • Penny Bright 4.1.2

        So – why has Martyn Bradbury BANNED me from commenting on his Daily Blog?

        As an ‘investigative activist’ / Public Watchdog – I’ve done research that no one else has done on a number of topics, and helped to initiate ACTION to help fix the discovered problem.

        He has NEVER interviewed me on his show.

        So – sorry but I don’t share your view:

        “And he has been doing a great service to the left in providing platforms, online & on TV, for a range of significant left wingers.”

        Kind regards

        Penny Bright
        ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner

        2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.1.2.1

          Come to think of it, he has never interviewed me on his show, either.

          Connect the dots.

          • Rogue Trooper 4.1.2.1.1

            prefer Jose Barbosa, now there is a jolly chap.

            • Tim 4.1.2.1.1.1

              erk!
              How the hell did that happen RT? What’s his skills?
              (I would genuinely like to know btw). I mean I’ve seen the various attempts on TVNZ7, but I wasn’t actually that convinced. I’m aware of course of the regime UNDER which he had to operate but…Please – convince me!

        • Arfamo 4.1.2.2

          So – why has Martyn Bradbury BANNED me from commenting on his Daily Blog?

          Might be just that he doesn’t have enough space. Have you asked him?

    • Olwyn 4.2

      I take it Sanctuary, that you are talking about this post in which he is talking up Mana’s chances in Ikaroa-Rawhiti http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/17/ikaroa-rawhiti-update-labour-are-worried/ I do not know enough about what is happening on the ground there to make a judgement.

    • weka 4.3

      Another day, another ridiculous post by Martyn Bradbury on the dailyblog, which he is turning into another vanity project for his personal fantasies. Already, I have noticed the frequency of posts from his more credible bloggers is dropping.

      Someone ought to take him aside and tell him making shit up and pretending it is based on some sort of inside information is not smart politics, it is just pathetic and slightly cringe worthy, but I suspect Mr. Bradbury is man whose ears are painted on.

      I also don’t know which post you are referring to. Why not be clear instead of maligning the man without showing what you are actually upset about?

    • Rogue Trooper 4.4

      Yes, it would be interesting to see a current comparison of site stats for TS and TDB.
      (certainly learn more from reading TS, maybe there is a vanity publishing aspect to TDB)
      An odd thing; on TDB I made a reply comment commending a contributors comment and from four votes resulted a net 0 for my encouragement of them. Not that what other people think should matter too much, but hey, it was only a comment of support for their efforts.

      • Rosie 4.4.1

        Hey Roguey. Well its a thumbs up from me to you. I have noticed the voting on the Daily Blog is a little inconsistent but like you say, how much does it really matter?
        I suspect however that the RWNJ’s do a daily troll through and down vote everyone who has anything positive or intelligent to say.

        • Rogue Trooper 4.4.1.1

          that gave me a smile Rosie, although, there are many sharp posters and commentors at TDB,
          QoT, John Minto, Keith Locke, Lynn, Matt Robson, Mike Treen, Jane Kelsey (now, I wonder about those initials), The Jackal, Wayne Butson. Great comments from AFKTT, Countryboy, Adam White, Ovicula, Draco et al;
          Chris Trotter writes some comprehensive essays, yet, personally, I am never certain if his conviction matches his creativity, but then, what would I know, I’m only a gardener with a penchant for Loud Rock Music and a craving, right now, for some hot chips. 😀

          • Tim 4.4.1.1.1

            Make sure they’re trans-fat free RT. Where was that bus maintenance stuff I saw somewhere on here on another thread? Not WCT by any chance?

            • Rogue Trooper 4.4.1.1.1.1

              Redbus

              • Tim

                Ah – OK. Besides me thinks you’re a bit younger than I anyway.
                (I once drove buses in Wgtn – albeit managing to get a licence before it was truely legit). THought you might have been a WCT “shiftman”.
                Apparently not.
                At least you didn’t have to suffer the indignity of having a job title of
                “standby gripman” (old cable car stuff)

          • Rosie 4.4.1.1.2

            Mmmm. Hot chips. Now you’re talking. Especially if you’ve grown the tatties yourself….And music, we can never get enough of the stuff. I recently read an interesting article in MOJO about the “Red Wedge”, a group of left British musicians (inc Paul Weller, Billy Bragg, The Communards etc who raged against Thatcherism in the 80’s. Where is that spirit now?

            I digress and ramble. Re Chris Trotter. I have mixed feelings. I always learn something from his historical references including material to be found in chapters in No Left Turn, as well as online but I wonder how much of this glorious past is romanticised by him.

            Ultimately though, and said with a sigh, I’m tired of words and arguments and going nowhere. Until we, as a people, people meaning fed up and disadvantaged NZer’s unify and react meaningfully to the multitude of issues mowing us down nothing will change. Dreary I know but most likely true.
            We can put our hope in various opposition parties but it’s not enough.
            Enjoy your gardening. That is a useful, self sufficient and rewarding activity:-)

            • weka 4.4.1.1.2.1

              When all else fails, garden!

              “I’m tired of words and arguments and going nowhere.”

              Me too.

              • LynWiper

                ditto

              • Tim

                When all else fails, garden!

                ABOSULTELY! Save the fucking seeds as well.

                It’s a therapeutic pass-time as well that more often than not produces results.

    • Te Reo Putake 4.5

      Assuming that Sactuary is talking about the by-election post, I’m in total agreement. The article is opinion masquerading as fact. No cites, no links to actual polling to back up the ‘fingertips’ fantasy, no quotes from anyone in any of the parties. It wouldn’t make the grade as a TS post because of the lack of substance, but I suppose it’s his site and he can put up whatever waffle he wants.

      It’ll be interesting when the counting is done. From the tone of the post, I’m guessing that whatever the size of the eventual winning Labour vote, Bomber will claim he was ‘right all along, Labour have no mandate, the Greens can now win electorate seats’ etc.

      Edit: just as an aside, there are many, many more comments about the post in this thread on TS than in the actual TDB site. That’s Bomber’s real problem, right there.

      • Rogue Trooper 4.5.1

        Thats cos’ The Standard Rocks and Rules.

      • marty mars 4.5.2

        I’ve had my issues with Bomber but that article is opinion and not pretending to be anything else. The problem is you don’t like the opinion or the conclusions but really does that matter?

        As for the voting, yes the day will tell the story and I live in hope that labour’s terror campaign fails and that Mana and the Greens come through – I’ll be loving that alright!!! Kia kaha Mana and Greens – resist the terror campaign Ikaroa-Rāwhiti voters and vote for the future not the past.

        • Te Reo Putake 4.5.2.1

          “…that article is opinion and not pretending to be anything else”.

          Not so, Marty. Bomber doesn’t qualify these statements as opinion, but presents them as facts:

          “Their candidate has been very difficult on the electoral trail and lacks any of the charisma necessary to enthuse turn out.”

          “Other factions view her win using her Brothers vote as shonky and have taken their toys home pulling any real support beyond lip service.”

          “Their internal polling is gloomy and Labour have sent their entire caucus into the electorate this week in a last minute attempt to pull the election around.”

          “Labour insiders believe Te Hamua has the momentum.”

          Ok, they’re not actually facts, and I’m guessing Bomber has lazily tried to make speculation and wishful thinking look like something of substance, but it’s a dishonest way to write. A few ‘I thinks’ and ‘I’m tolds’ would make it clearer that this is just opinion based on hope, rather than commentary based on facts.

          • weka 4.5.2.1.1

            I took it as given seeing as how his main source of information seems to be the ‘tip line’ at TDB. All his posts today seem sloppily written. I don’t know if the information is wishful thinking, or if it has some substance. What makes you think you know?

            • Te Reo Putake 4.5.2.1.1.1

              The reason I’m sure it’s wishful thinking, weka, is that he has no cites of any kind. No quotes from any of the parties involved, no detail of the internal polling etc. He’s pulled it out of his nether regions and dressed it up to sound legit, IMHO.

              @marty: I agree its a continuation of his personal style, but that style is often grating, fanciful and bombastic. I don’t think the kiwi left needs a version of the right’s Alex Jones or, more to the point, a local version of Cameron ‘tipline’ Slater.

              • That’s harsh TRP and not accurate imo. What the left need is to accept the differences we all have that make us who we are and concentrate on those opposite who constantly try to divide us. And we also need labour and its supporters to stop trying to terrorise their political opponents and instead to concentrate their wrath on the righties in and out of their party ffs.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Yes, well put marty. And believe me, there is a lot of wrath at the righties inside the party right about now. The Skycity debacle has really clarified things for a lot of members and I expect the moderation committee is going to be asked by the rank and file to deliver a list free of deadwood for the next election. However, it’s going to be a lot harder to rid ourselves of electorate based liabilities and non performers like Faa foi, Mallard and, well, it’s a long list so I won’t go on.

                  • I wish you all the best with that endeavor.

                    • Anne

                      Yes, I’m beginning to think the SC debacle may prove to be a blessing in disguise. Might help to put the wheat back into the mix.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    For the electorate MPs: time to start working with their LECs and branches, finding support for good quality potential candidates willing to stand up for a hard Selection fight against the sitting MP.

              • Pasupial

                @ TRP

                You can’t imagine the shock I feel at seeing a man universally known as “Bomber” being described as “bombastic”.

                Perhaps you should learn to fact check, not just Bomber; but everyone! Though his particular tendency to let a turn of phrase obscure, rather than reveal; the truth, can admittedly get a bit wearying.

                Still, I do find his broadcasts on “Citizen A” (and once upon a time “Bomber’s Blog”) always brilliant: Sometimes a pure diamond brilliance, but often; merely the flash of rhinestones as a master magician controls your attention. If it’s entertaining and provoking, then he has succeeded in his trick. Just don’t ever try repeating anything he has produced without checking for yourself that you are sure how it was done!

          • marty mars 4.5.2.1.2

            I’m not sure if it is dishonest considering he generally always writes like that but I can see why labour supporters would be pissed off with it. Personally as a Mana member I find he is a double edged sword but I take what he writes as an extension of how he speaks and just accept it for what it is, a particular style if you like.

            It would be interesting to get another post from jenny to hear what she has found out there whilst campaigning for labour (hopefully not another sarcastic one though) and of course everything will sort itself out on the (voting) day.

        • David H 4.5.2.2

          And if the Greens win, then that may just be the kick up the arse that the morons in charge of Labour need to make some much needed changes, to personnel.

      • weka 4.5.3

        “Assuming that Sactuary is talking about the by-election post, I’m in total agreement. The article is opinion masquerading as fact. No cites, no links to actual polling to back up the ‘fingertips’ fantasy, no quotes from anyone in any of the parties. It wouldn’t make the grade as a TS post because of the lack of substance, but I suppose it’s his site and he can put up whatever waffle he wants.”

        I found the quality of the three posts by Bradbury today pretty poor. But I don’t see the by-election one as too different than some of the posts on ts, where people like Eddie post from inside knowledge and don’t give any citations or backup. We are left to make our decisions about the validity of the information.

        With Bomber, at one end of the spectrum is Sanctuary (who thinks he is full of shit), and at the other are… well I don’t know if anyone believes that Bomber’s information is pure gold. But most of us I suspect sit in the middle somewhere, don’t really care that much about the ego/style issues, and just add Bomber’s views to the mix in making up our minds about what is going on.

    • millsy 4.6

      Bradbury can get a bit tedious at times, and TDB is starting to be more about him posting than anyone else.

      His idea about RNZ2 is interesting though, and deserves looking into.

  4. Morrissey 5

    …another ridiculous post… vanity project… personal fantasies… frequency of posts from his more credible bloggers is dropping… making shit up and pretending it is based on some sort of inside information… pathetic… cringe-worthy… ears are painted on

    You’ve used a lot of adjectives and told us precisely nothing. Why all this animosity against Bradbury? Could you be specific?

    Right now, this looks like nothing more than a personal grudge against one of this country’s more principled and eloquent critics of the Key regime.

    Are you Matthew Hooton?

    • geoff 5.1

      Very unlikely to be Hooton as Bradbury often has him on Citizen A

      • Morrissey 5.1.1

        I was just trying to annoy our friend “Sanctuary”. I knew he couldn’t be Hooton, or any other National Party drone, because a quick perusal of his other recent posts show that Sanctuary is an intelligent, thoughtful and humane person.

        I just can’t believe, though, how he has attacked Bomber. It has to be something personal.

        • geoff 5.1.1.1

          Yeah there is a few Bomber haters on the standard. Most of the criticism I’ve seen is based on his style more than his content though.

        • felix 5.1.1.2

          “I just can’t believe, though, how he has attacked Bomber. It has to be something personal.”

          Doesn’t have to be personal at all. A great many people are far from enamoured with Bomber’s methods.

          Try reading the criticism at face value and forget for a moment that no-one is supposed to disagree with you.

          • weka 5.1.1.2.1

            Well what is the criticism exactly?

            That Bomber has a vanity project? (am sure there are no egos at ts or any other blog)

            That Bomber supports Mana?

            That he has painted ears?

            That he is making shit up and pretending that he has inside information? About what?

            The first three are irrelevant beyond personal opinion. The last one might be interesting if we knew what it was actually referring to.

            • felix 5.1.1.2.1.1

              Sorry, I didn’t realise I was supposed to be rating Sanctuary’s criticism on the basis of how interesting and/or relevant it was to you.

              • weka

                You said “try reading the criticism at face value”. So I did. I can’t see the basis for the criticism (not saying there isn’t one, just that it’s not obvious).

                • felix

                  Not my problem.

                  • weka

                    Right. Never mind then.

                    • felix

                      To be clear, what I mean is that my comment wasn’t actually about Bomber’s post. It was about Morrissey’s reaction to it and the assumptions contained within.

                    • weka

                      Fair enough. I suppose I responded because it’s hard to read a criticism at face value (rather than judge it as a personal grudge), when it’s unclear what the actual criticism is. I agree with you in principal though.

                      (for what it’s worth Sanctuary’s comment came across to me as a mix of potentially legit criticism and just plain dislike of the man).

            • marty mars 5.1.1.2.1.2

              I read it that he is, in sanc’s opinion, annoying sanc and embarrassing the more important ‘left’ bloggers that sanc likes by continuing to blog in his well known ‘excitable bullshitting’ way which sanc seems to think should have changed when he set up TDB. Oh and sanc doesn’t like the ‘wild and grandiose’ postings on Mana because that isn’t ‘uniting’ or ‘achieving’ the mission statement of TDB as stated. But I’ve just written that to help clarity based on the incomplete information in sanc’s posting to date.

            • Saccharomyces 5.1.1.2.1.3

              “That Bomber gets paid by Mana?”

              FIFY

              • weka

                Who is that a reply to?

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Slater’s been running a campaign saying that Bomber is getting paid by Mana and therefore he’s as bad as Lusk/Farrar/Hooten et al. As if Mana had the kind of money business has to throw around, eh?

                  • Winston Smith

                    Well Hooten paid Bomber so is it that much of a stretch?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Yep, it is a stretch. Bomber is open and honest about who he works for, whereas Hooten lives in the shadows with the Hollow Men. Slater, of course, is happy to post anything, anytime, from anyone, as long as a cheque comes attached.

                      There is a world of difference between a cash strapped minor party paying a pittance for some occasional political advice and an orchestrated rorting of the political process.

          • Morrissey 5.1.1.2.2

            Try reading the criticism at face value and forget for a moment that no-one is supposed to disagree with you.

            ???? When have I given the impression that no-one is supposed to disagree with me?

        • Tim 5.1.1.3

          “…. posts show that Sanctuary is an intelligent, thoughtful and humane person.”
          Aye to that
          +1 and all that kinda kaka.

          ….and @ Morissey – I hope you didn’t put yourself through all that ‘nicest man on Earth’ Mora puff shit not long after 1pm. ” A-her a-her a-her a-her (forced laugh) Rotary sensitive crap.

          Is RNZ’s retention of the guy an attempt to display they’re fair and balanced?
          If that’s the reason, I’ll put up with it because I’ve no doubt the junta has the knives out looking for an excuse.

  5. Morrissey 6

    “We’re always concerned about attacks on innocent civilians….”
    U.S. State Dept. PR woman assures reporters

    If you want to see a gruesome example of just how the scofflaw Israeli state is allowed to literally get away with murder every day, then click on the following….
    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2013/worth-listening-until-the-end/

    Watch as reporters try to get an honest answer out of this PR flack. The highlight—or lowlight—comes when she asserts, with a completely straight face, that the U.S. government is “always concerned about attacks on innocent civilians.”

    That brazen lie is uttered at the 4:00 mark in the video….

    QUESTION: Do you have a comment on the increased attack by settlers against Palestinian farmers and villagers?
    MS. PSAKI: I don’t – I’m not sure which report you’re referring to.
    QUESTION: I mean, they are constant. They happen almost every day within – they double every month. Talk about doubling. I mean, it doubles every month. Are you concerned, or do you raise this issue with the Israelis? Do you demand that they bring these attackers to justice?
    MS. PSAKI: I don’t – I’m not sure what report you’re referring to. We’re always concerned about attacks on innocent civilians, but beyond that I’m not sure I have much more to add.
    QUESTION: Okay. Do you expect both sides to hold the aggressors from their side accountable to justice? Do you call on both sides that they do that, including the Israelis?
    MS. PSAKI: I think we’ve probably done what we can here on this topic, Said.

    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/06/210603.htm#ISRAEL

  6. Sanctuary 7

    It just annoys me that he take me and others for fools. He has no need to make things up to appear more important or more knowledgable than he is. He has a profile. But no one will ever take him seriously until he gets his ego and wishful thinking masquerading as fact under a bit more control. The other issue is that by making wild and grandiose claims in a clearly partisan way for Mana you are hardly achieving the mission statement of the site, which was presumably written by Bradbury, and says “…The Daily Blog Unites Top Left-Wing Political Commentators and Progressive Opinion Shapers…” Unite? Hardly. Unless of course for Martyn the “left” starts and ends with the Mana party, in which case he ought to have been more honest with his contributors instead of allowing his excitable bullshitting to embarass the more important of them by their association with his blog.

    • So your issue is with the Mana Movement then?

    • weka 7.2

      “Unless of course for Martyn the “left” starts and ends with the Mana party, in which case he ought to have been more honest with his contributors instead of allowing his excitable bullshitting to embarass the more important of them by their association with his blog.”

      He has Marama Davidson blogging on TDB too (thinking about the by-election). I think you are confusing Bradbury’s role as founder and owner of TDB with his personal views as a blogger. Sure he supports Mana, that’s hardly a secret, so why shouldn’t he blog from that position? Unless he is actively refusing to publish material from people who support other parties I can’t see what the problem is.

    • Tim 7.3

      Unfortunately Sanct, his ego is probably the (his) biggest problem – I find it fukn intolerable at times too. (I mean for me – I could get the hate on David Slack – or a number of others that have a certain appeal in many ways – but who do so from priviledged positions – tarnished silver spoons – whatever).
      When you think about it though – it’s no worse, and probably a shitload better than most of his adversaries, and it shouldn’t be used as an impediment to his getting a load of noble messages across.

      Look at it this way – by and large, they’re all up themselves (I mean the ‘media-obsessed folk’) – some so far up themselves any attempt at a 3 point turn would see them heading for their liver, or kidneys.
      TDB needs support, AS DOES TS.
      Pick your battles.

  7. Poission 8

    The G8 starts this week,the great game continues
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Great_Game_cartoon_from_1878.jpg

    and Putin back-foots Cameron and his relationships with eaters of the dead.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syria-sketch-dead-eyed-putin-asks-do-you-want-to-supportpeople-who-eat-the-guts-of-their-enemies-8661050.html

    The Hague/ Kerry Putz with Obama has been derailed.

  8. Te Reo Putake 9

    The Manufacturing Enquiry report is out, main recommendations are:

    1) a fairer and less volatile exchange rate through reforms to monetary policy;
    2) refocusing capital investment into the productive economy, rather than housing speculation;
    3) lowering structural costs in the economy, such as electricity prices.

    http://manufacturinginquiry.org.nz/report/

    • Rogue Trooper 9.1

      ah, now, I’d like to have a quick chat over a cuppa about the Sunday article, realtor and economic commentary of the housing market. Madness, it appears, absolute madness.

      The locals interviewed were spending all their spare time driving all over Ak to view properties and spectate at auctions to secure “the perfect house”- deep sigh. Emotional buying.
      The Fear of Missing Out (on Easy Money) over-riding even investment returns for some speculators.
      The return of ‘Investment Seminars’, $8000 a show, where you are introduced to establishing your property portfolio with no up-front cash deposit required.

      Peter Barfoot- 40% of Auction sales ARE going to Asian bidders.
      -20 of Barfoot’s highest grossing sales-people are Asian, who work more conscientiously and longer hours than their non-asian colleagues.

      Didn’t get his surname but ‘David’ claims a further 30% growth in prices is possible; the immigration influence is just coming on stream now!

      Shamubeel Eaqub- an objective Economist.
      -people are not thinking through their commitments.
      -need to allow for a 3% hike in interest rates
      -yet some are committed to 70-80% of their incomes; 100K income permits 700K mortgage.
      -Shamubeel does not own a home and receives greater returns from renting and a managed investment portfolio.Will buy a home in the future, but for domestic motivations.
      He says it is inevitable we will see a crisis , similar to the sub-prime, and that a 30% devaluation in your investment will be painful.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      And Labour’s say on it:

      “We need a thriving and high-tech manufacturing sector that makes and sells products the world wants.

      It seems that Labour still hasn’t woken up to reality even though they mention it in the same press release:

      “Countries around the world are making sure their exporters and manufacturers have an advantage.

      When every country can manufacture the same stuff and do it cheaper than by importing (which is inevitable) then there are no exports.

  9. Draco T Bastard 10

    The way money is created is at the root of the environmental and economic crisis

    Firstly, it drives unsustainable growth and consumption. Corporations must produce and sell more to pay interest and repay loans. Easy credit encourages more and more unsustainable consumption.

    Secondly, this way of creating money increases the cost of everything and fuels the nation’s escalating debt.

    and Russel Norman’s excellent article on the same happening here in NZ:

    The first point to note is that all of this huge increase in the money supply, what Key would call ‘money printing’, happened without the government engaging in any kind of government led increase in the money supply. It was private led increase in money supply.

    Anybody saying that the government shouldn’t just print money obviously either a) has NFI how money is created in the first place or b) knows exactly how it’s created and wants to keep it going that way.

    If we wish to become an equitable and sustainable society then we must take back the creation of money from the banks. No economic reform is possible until we do.

    • Rogue Trooper 10.1

      That is a balance discussion by Russel.

    • Inflation is designed by the ruling class to delay repayment of debt, while devaluing it, and at the same time shift the debt burden onto future generations of workers to pay.
      Interestingly enough it will be a race between starvation of oxygen and food to give our children and grandchildren debt relief.
      Rrrrrrruuuuuuussssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllll even in his inflated existence should be calling for the destruction of capitalism and salvation of human life.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      And this is another good article on money creation by governments:

      This insistence that the availability of money limits public action stands reality on its head. Money is the way that resources are mobilised. Libraries are closed for lack of money when all the resources, buildings, books, staff and the demand are there and all that is needed is the money.

      That people must be kept unemployed and services cut because they are unaffordable for lack of money makes no sense. Only by mobilising resources fully can anything be afforded.

      Taking the money creation off of the private banks and putting it back with government would allow for better use of our resources.

  10. Dv 11

    Hooten has just said on 9 to noon that he would not be surprised if an alternative dunne leakage appears this week

    That the leak was from those in the nats that leaked to to hager is the the hollow men!!!

  11. Draco T Bastard 12

    Gutted

    The Commerce Committee has reported back on Te Ururoa Flavell’s Gambling (Gambling Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill. But while they’ve recommended that it be passed with amendments, the bill has basically been gutted, turned from a tool to reduce gambling harm to one to increase it.

    Yeah, about what I’d expect from this government. I/S sums it nicely:

    These amendments were imposed by the National majority on the committee. The conclusion? That party is the bought-and-paid-for servant of the gambling industry.

    Corruption: Alive and well in NZ and living in the Beehive.

    • Chris 12.1

      The issue is still who is the alternative, from the same I/S post:

      Meanwhile, the Labour Party did not issue a minority report on the bill, and instead “reserve[d] its position”. Clayton Cosgrove was on the committee. Clayton Cosgrove was also in SkyCity’s corporate box last week. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

      Until the Greens can convince more of NZ they should be in power we seem stuck.

  12. Rogue Trooper 13

    Rivers in Otago have reached record levels
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/261289/heavy-rain-brings-flooding

    Auckland Public Transport- “Third World”, “increasingly erratic”and “deteriorating”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890937
    “lack of serviceable vehicles” -NZ BUS.
    coincidentally, chatting with a Mechanical Foreman recently, he stated, that they just cannot get diligent experienced staff. 😉

    Business lobbyists passes to parliament double under Carter
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890993
    soooo panicky.

    On Femme Fatale journalists
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890912

  13. Rosie 14

    Hi Mods. I’m been in moderation for two hours. All OK?

  14. felix 15

    Well played, Philosoraptor.
    http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3usegz/

  15. Rosetinted 16

    Here are some figures on housing prices that you could break your teeth on. (Warning do not grit or grind teeth, or bite down hard on tongue.)
    from http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Pacific/New-Zealand/Price-History

    During the housing boom from 2001 to 2007, house prices rose 123% (87% in real terms), including 24% in 2003, 12.5% in 2004, 14.5% in 2005, 9.6% in 2006, and 7.7% in 2007.

    House prices started to fall in early 2008, as the global crisis spread to New Zealand. During 2008, house prices fell 8.95% (-11.93% in real terms). Then in 2009, house prices rebounded by 5.42% (3.4% in real terms). However in 2010, house prices fell again by 1.65% (-5.45% in real terms). In 2011, house prices recovered slightly, rising by 2.8% (0.93% in real terms).

    But all people with low deposits can just b…ger off because they haven’t got a hope in hell anyway and just muck up the economics of it all. After all these figures represent the only really active financial opportunities open to investors in NZ today.

  16. NickS 17

    Bob McCroskie’s Penis is back at it again, teaming up with that complete hack of doctor Miriam Grossman, who can’t science to save their life:
    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/sexual-advice-teens-seriously-flawed-expert-5466779

    See the ever awesome Queen of Thorns for some background:
    http://ideologicallyimpure.wordpress.com/tag/miriam-grossman-is-gross/

    • Tigger 17.1

      They’ve lost gay marriage. Contraception and abortion is now their key rallying topics. In other words, expect more misogyny from this lot. A lot more.

      • NickS 17.1.1

        C&A have been their targets though for a couple of decades, as the local crowd have been drawing their rhetoric from the USA following the political ascendency of the religious right in the 1980’s and the failures of the the local Dutch inspired religious right to have any real political impact.

        • Rogue Trooper 17.1.1.1

          that is interesting NickS; personal experience of the failures of the local Dutch religious right (that explains some sightings) , still stuck into the literal creeds etc. Reform or perish.Although, some lovely genetic endowments among the meid.

    • QoT 17.2

      Thanks for the link, Nick!

  17. aerobubble 18

    Key to devalued Auckland home values, by building on reserves; while ignoring why reserves exist because much of the land was hard to build on in the first place, hard to get at – steep – and so costly both to build but also for owners over the lifetime of the homes.

  18. Seen this?

    FYI
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Press Release: Sue Henry Housing Lobby Spokesperson:

    “Eviction notices for elderly State tenants are effectively death sentences.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890782

    “In response to this NZ Herald on Sunday article dated 16 June 2013, entitled “The $340-a-week houses with million-dollar views” – these State houses were constructed for 2000 pounds each, are freehold and have been paid for by State tenants many times over,” says Housing Lobby Spokesperson Sue Henry.

    “The ironic contradiction here is that the day before this story went to print it was ‘World Elder Abuse Awareness Day’. ”

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/we-all-have-role-play-preventing-elder-abuse

    Elder abuse and neglect needs to stop and it is up to all of us to work together to prevent it, says Senior Citizens Minister Jo Goodhew.

    Saturday 15 June 2013 marks the eighth World Elder Abuse Awareness Day.

    “World Elder Abuse Awareness Day is about acknowledging older people as integral to strong families, and affirming that there is no place for elder abuse,” says Mrs Goodhew.

    “The prevention of elder abuse and neglect is one of my key priorities and something I personally feel very strongly about.”

    Elder abuse can take many forms, and includes behaviours or lack of action which causes physical, psychological, sexual or financial harm or distress to an older person.

    “Older people are entitled to make their own decisions, feel safe and live free of fear. They have the right to dignity and care in a supportive environment,” Mrs Goodhew says. ………..

    _______________________________________________________________

    “Elder abuse is also a criminal offence in this country,” continued Sue Henry.

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM3650013.html

    “It’s disgusting how this National/ACT Government has sanctioned greedy property developers to abuse the vulnerable, elderly folk who have worked hard, law-abiding lives, paid for and built for a significant amount of amenities in the Glen Innes area which the property developers are now endeavouring to ransack,”

    “These elderly State tenants are not being given eviction notices – they’re being effectively given death sentences.”

    “Is this the thanks that Returned Servicemen, and widows of those deceased, particularly those allocated permanent State homes in the Glen Innes area, are getting? ”

    “The Housing Lobby are calling for, in the first instance, tenure protection to be reinstated forthwith .for these elderly State tenants.

    We also want their exemption from intimidating, stressful reviews,” she concluded.

    Sue Henry
    Spokesperson
    Housing Lobby

    • karol 19.1

      Sue Henry, doing an excellent job re-Glen Innes and the wider issues of state housing.

      • Morrissey 19.1.1

        She is not doing a good job with her press releases, however. She has the idea in her head that each sentence requires its own paragraph. That press release is full of interesting information, but there is no development or flow to it. Even people who are interested in Housing policy would not be tempted to read that handout, simply because it has not been put together with much care or attention to presentation.

        • karol 19.1.1.1

          Well, she’s presumably writing for the MSM, which also tend to make each sentence a paragraph on its own, at least online. I’ve often wondered why they do that. Is it meant to be easier on the eye? Or is it,a s you say, a way of avoiding the development of a comprehensive theme or argument?

          • Populuxe1 19.1.1.1.1

            It’s to make it easier to read. If you want arguments read the opinion section

            • Morrissey 19.1.1.1.1.1

              It’s to make it easier to read.

              Exactly. Well said, my academic friend!

  19. Bill (Didn't go to the Box!) 20

    http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/19362
    Government Motion on Notice No 1 – 13th June, 2013
    The Hon. David Cunliffe MP for New Lynn.

    This speech on the intrusions into our privacy by spy agencies is excellent.

    A stellar performance by Cunliffe.

    • Anne 20.1

      Just brilliant. It depresses me. He should be at the front of the queue not the back. Also, he’s not afraid to show real emotion – anger in this case – when the subject matter is so important.

      • June 20.1.1

        I agree. Why is one of the performers in the caucus stuck at the back. Enough already. Good to see someone actually shows some passion still. Something that is sorely lacking in the Labour Party at the moment. Too busy going to corporate boxes it seems.

  20. Morrissey 21

    Mallard’s criticism of Deputy Police Commissioner well justified
    Police Minister’s riposte ignores evidence-planting findings of royal commission.

    by BRYAN GOULD, New Zealand Herald, Monday 17 June 2013

    Trevor Mallard may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Even his friends might concede that he occasionally betrays a lack of judgment. But, in his criticism of Deputy Police Commissioner Mike Bush when the senior policeman appeared recently before a select committee, he was entirely justified.

    [Deleted – don’t copy paste]
    Just over a year ago……

    Read more….
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-police/news/article.cfm?o_id=131&objectid=10890924

  21. Pete 22

    TV3 has reported that Truth is ceasing publication.

    • lprent 22.1

      How *unexpected*. Looks like the Hortons gave up.

    • McFlock 22.2

      A great blow for intelligent and thoughtful media analysis in New Zealand.

      :)

    • karol 22.3

      Actually, the article says it “may” be about to stop publishing, following the news that it will not be publishing a print edition on Thursday.

      Still too early to dance on its remnants.

    • King Kong 22.4

      I worry for Cameron, if collapsing a piss ant security firm had him in the foetal position rocking in the dark and crying for 5 years then I hate to think what sinking a newspaper with a 125 year history will do.

      • McFlock 22.4.1

        that’s going too far imo, KK.

        • King Kong 22.4.1.1

          Probably but Slater has really annoyed me through the years where he has done his utmost to ruin people’s lives who weren’t even in the public eye, online nes aggregation start ups, commenters etc.

          • McFlock 22.4.1.1.1

            yep, it’s good to see him fail :)

          • Pascal's bookie 22.4.1.1.2

            Yeah, but it’s not just about him tho is it? There are staff, and their families, and, well, a masthead with over a 100 years of history. Dudes a dick no doubt, & jokes are fucking begging to be made at his expense, but it’s a sad thing.

            • Pascal's bookie 22.4.1.1.2.1

              That said, his commenters are delusional.

              I am certain the NZ public would lap it up in spades…..especially once Mediaworks is dead & buried for good!

              Since you have ruled politics out then it is time to rule the media world eh Cameron – you’ve already dropped the expletives in the titles of your posts on here so swoop in & take advantage of the Tv3/4 established audience…show them that news can actually contain facts & no BS.

              Oh yes.

            • McFlock 22.4.1.1.2.2

              fair enough, too.

              At least it’s less depressing than the layoffs in Blenheim, though.

      • Rogue Trooper 22.4.2

        “No More Tears”, back to Purex.(just a little post-chinese, retire to the smoking-parlour humour. :)

    • karol 22.5

      But it’s playing out like a self-destructive farce:

      [Truth co-owner] Malley said only “You want the truth from Truth? You’ll get the truth”, before ending the call.

  22. karol 23

    A very significant post from Jane Kelsey today, on the rise social democratic government in Iceland since the GFC, the subsequent re-election of “the old guard”.:

    There are many unnerving commonalities for New Zealand in the background to the crisis, but that is a much longer story than can be written here. In particular, stories about how the intimate network of well placed businessmen and politicians reminded me of the 1980s, as well as recent back room deals, the way the executive is bypassing and binding the hands of future of Parliaments, and the scrutiny of parliamentary officials and judicial review is being removed. Iceland shows how easy it is for the conditions for crisis to be created through these networks and be shielded from public view until it is too late. –

    She raises an important point about the post-GFC Iceland social democratic government lacking a clear plan:

    The composition of the government was also crucial. The SDP and Left-Greens had no clear game plan, but their instincts and core values drove a progressive policy. Iceland’s neoliberalism never directly attacked the welfare state. There remains a very strong cultural commitment to Nordic style welfare policies and gender equality. It may be imperfect in the eyes of locals, but it remains much stronger than countries with a less robust commitment to anglo-style welfarism. –

    It also shows up some differences from the NZ culture.

    And considering where the Iceland social democrat government went wrong:

    So why did the left government get kicked out so resoundingly in the September elections? There seem to be three main reasons. First, they did not have a clear ongoing strategy to address the flow on impacts for households.

    Second reason: support of the European Community, even though it backed austerity measures.

    And, again, the need for a clear plan:

    The third factor is the lack of any clear analysis of the systemic causes of the crisis. Popular opposition was initially prompted by a sense of betrayal; since then, attacks have focused on individuals rather than financialisation and its consequences. The SCP contained a spectrum of positions and the Left-Greens were more comfortable in critique from outside the government. It remains to be seen which direction the new governing coalition of the Progressive and Independence parties will go, and whether the neoliberal vanguard can resume control.

  23. Colonial Viper 24

    Iran sends 4000 troops to help Assad in Syria with Russia also supporting; US now fully allied with Sunni Muslims in 1400 year conflict against Shia Islam

    Well, what could possibly go wrong with a proxy war in the Middle East. Does someone really want to cause an upset of, ahem, biblical/Q’uranic proportions?

    For the Russians, of course, the ‘Middle East’ is not in the ‘east’ at all, but to the south of Moscow; and statistics are all-important. The Chechen capital of Grozny is scarcely 500 miles from the Syrian frontier. Fifteen per cent of Russians are Muslim. Six of the Soviet Union’s communist republics had a Muslim majority, 90 per cent of whom were Sunni. And Sunnis around the world make up perhaps 85 per cent of all Muslims. For a Russia intent on repositioning itself across a land mass that includes most of the former Soviet Union, Sunni Islamists of the kind now fighting the Assad regime are its principal antagonists.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-to-send-4000-troops-to-aid-president-assad-forces-in-syria-8660358.html

    • Rogue Trooper 24.1

      across the line in the sand.

      • Colonial Viper 24.1.1

        a red line in the sand apparently

        • Rogue Trooper 24.1.1.1

          well, here we are brother, spectators, for now; as I commented on Jane’s article, likely to be when, not if. (Left. the -red- light on.)

          • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1.1

            well, you’re a spectator right up to the moment the gladiator hurls the javelin into Caesar’s corporate box. Then it gets personal very rapidly.

            • Rogue Trooper 24.1.1.1.1.1

              old-school justice, an eye for an eye. Even the MSM journos have been pointing out the long memories of China, and Russia, and then there are the Islamists of course. Must give one a sense of security and all that, being an American Idiot.

              • Colonial Viper

                I wonder if the true spirit of that nation will awaken again, and in time. Sadly I think it is not likely.

                • Populuxe1

                  Given that “the true spirit of that nation” was founded on the idea of limitless resources and unlimited expansion, I doubt it some how.

                • Arfamo

                  Given how long it has functioned as an exploitational empire I somewhat doubt it as well. I think it will be US uber alles for some time yet. Even any economic recovery there would be still predicated on predating on other countries and their resources, because it can.

    • UglyTruth 24.2

      Democracy never counts the cost.

  24. muzza 25

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Argus

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dominic_I_and_II

    These crazed, war industry sponsored operations, have been going on more than half a century, and yet co2 is taking the blame The blatant stench of distraction, reeks, and has always been a trap for the punters to despise their own existence, and agonize over.

    CFC’s ozonze hole (since the 70’s), nah, its the war machine paid, scientists looking for for new weapons, that’s heavily responsible for the damage to our planets atmospheric layers!

    People don’t want to blame the science, I have no problem pointing the middle finger , right at it!

    Science & war- symbiotic!

      • Rogue Trooper 25.1.1

        What? No Purple Rain?

      • muzza 25.1.2

        Joe, are you saying Argus, S-Prime and D1,2 did not happen, or that perhps all the nuclear detonations over the decades, land, sea, air, inluding the reactor meltdows, could not be a contributing factor to the messed up state of the weather, via the damage in the atmospheric layers etc?

        Your links are getting weak mate, too long on the net, or too tied to the science trip, to see it for what it really has become!

        Looks like you have a friend in Pop, who can;t divorce himself from anything which might taint his view of, *AMERICAN*.!

        Which of course the scientists involved, mostly, were not!

    • Populuxe1 25.2

      Nope, it was the naive burning fossil fuels on an unprecedented and asymptotic scale – but you believe whatever you can deal with.

  25. karol 26

    Whoa! Lianne Dalziel expected to quit parliament & run for Christchurch mayoralty.

      • mickysavage 26.1.1

        Whoa Muzza. Dalziel would be a damned fine mayor and Christchurch have had a few over the years, for instance Buck and Moore. She would be just what Christchurch needs, someone who would stand up against the Government and promote real development of the area.

        The link in the Ellis reference is tenuous in the extreme.

        • muzza 26.1.1.1

          MS – All I implied, was that LD is tainted.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3515393

          Edit – The Ellis link, is direct, via her sister, and husband, nothing *tenuous in the extreme* about it.

          Some seriously wrng shit, happens in that part of the country, and the history on NZ politicians in and around the smell, is deep!

          Integrity, MIA, in NZ!

          • mickysavage 26.1.1.1.1

            Oh look a 10 year old, repeat 10 year old, report where a public servant with a bit of humour and a sense of satire who made a comment that went *whoosh* over the head of the right is somehow conclusive evidence that Lianne, and the link is not established except she was a Minister at the time, is not fit for public office despite a life history of public service.

            Is that all you have Muzza. Don’t hold back, don’t imply, just slander to your heart’s content.

            • muzza 26.1.1.1.1.1

              Its not slander Mickey – LD, might well be a good thing for ChCh, but then again, anyone who lined up against that pest , Parker, would be!

              These people are wrong-uns, they get given too much leeway, the standards are too low these days, and what concerns me, is the way that many are comfortable with it all, and happy to *give them a go*!

              Yeah, nah, its time to clear decks, very few exceptions of the current crop would remain, LD, would not be one of them!

              • You mean Muzza that no public servant should ever show the slightest shred of humour ever again?

                I thought the “lying in unison” was a wonderfully crafted phrase. When I saw it I knew that the poor old public servant was taking the piss but a bunch of RWNJs without a humour chip jumped up and down about it.

                So I am failing to see the problem. Even if I take out my humour chip I still can’t see what this has to do with Dalziel.

                Please enlighten us.

                Or are you an adherent to the Cameron Slater if you smear enough excrement some of it is sure to stick school of political discourse?

          • weka 26.1.1.1.2

            “Edit – The Ellis link, is direct, via her sister, and husband, nothing *tenuous in the extreme* about it.”

            So now being related to someone taints you? WTF?

            I read the first link you gave and as far as I can see Dalziel acted with integrity – she exempted herself from a process because of conflicts of interest. How exactly is she tainted?

    • chris73 26.2

      Not a big surprise, Whaleoils been saying that for a long time

  26. Ed 27

    A great interview on National Radio on Sunday morning about Christchurch. It confirmed for me that the current government has betrayed the trust of New Zealanders – not once but multiple times:
    1. EQC was supposed to look after us and pay for the effects of a major disaster – it has been white-anted by penny pinching and fights with insurance companies and owners, but the most obvious aspect was only offering 50% of land to many Christchurch owners not able to return to their homes. The level of funding of EQC is only part of the story – arbitrary levy limits and lower funding has happened under both National and Labour governments (except under Cullen some of that was reversed), but the underlying commitment promised by the scheme has not ever previously been as cynically compromised.
    2. The forcing through of projects for the monuments to politicians in a stadium and conference centre and other large buildings before homes for people.
    3. The lack of consultation by Brownlee over planning, and the arrogant over-riding of the local Council
    4. The unwillingness to engage with insurers to provide a system that does not require multiple expert reports for assessments and negotiations, and does not require even the level of service expected by insured residents – the profits before people attitude always won despite rhetoric that sounded nice, but in reality resulted in insurers recovering reserve levels at the expense of their ‘clients’.

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