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Open mike 17/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, June 17th, 2014 - 233 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

233 comments on “Open mike 17/06/2014”

  1. NzJackson 1

    Who is Clinton Dearlove?

    Why is he standing in the Te Tai Tokerau Election?

    Why did 40% of voters that voted for Hone in the last election not support Mana?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11275172

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=289979404513586

    • North 1.1

      NzJ, your “40%”……..who knows ? Necessary to observe that there is no immediately obvious point conveyed by your rhetorical question.

      Meaning is abundant however if you turn the question on its head – why did Hone’s personal vote trump party vote ?

      Obvious answer……..Hone is a ‘leader’. Always has been.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        NZjackson appears to think Northland voters give a fuck about what the NZ Herald writes, apart from to disregard it completely.

      • bad12 1.1.2

        i have the sneaking suspicion that the author is asking a somewhat rhetorical question, to expand upon the suspicion would have me speculating on the identity of NzJackson,

        1+1 tho have always turned out to be 2…

        • Tracey 1.1.2.1

          agree. last post he did was first on open mike supporting the same candidate.

          • Te Reo Putake 1.1.2.1.1

            Indeed, Tracey. I’m not going to start speculating on identities, but I reckon NZJackson isn’t a million miles removed from what ever passes for Dearlove’s brains trust. Still, to answer his question (who is Clinton Dearlove?), he’s the guy coming a distant fourth in the Te Tai Tokerau election.

            http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13062014/#comment-830097

            • Tracey 1.1.2.1.1.1

              yup… nzjackson is trying to bring hone down which is not exactly the same things as promoting a dearlove win.

            • weka 1.1.2.1.1.2

              “Still, to answer his question (who is Clinton Dearlove?), he’s the guy coming a distant fourth in the Te Tai Tokerau election”

              He’s also the guy who might split the vote and cost Mana their only seat and the left the election.

              • North

                No, actual, fucking, way. Mr Higher ShonKey Standards’ zillions on it ! Call it 500-700 votes if that. Which will come from everywhere probably least Hone and Mana.

                You see Hone = Mana Maori. BEFORE he = Mana Movement. With absolutely no disrespect to David Tua it’s a teensy bit like him and Lennox Lewis. Except less.

    • The Lone Haranguer 1.2

      Because they voted tactically. They arent stupid so didnt waste their party vote on Mana.

      I will predict that Hone will bolt in and the IMP vote will be within 10% of his electorate vote this time round as theres a chance to get Sykes and others into Parliament this time round.

    • Hone has talked about Clinton on facebook

      “I just wanted to clarify exactly how my interview about CLINTON DEARLOVE, went with the Herald, because of course, they never ever report my comments properly. Here’s the exact text conversation …

      HERALD: Wondered how you felt about your former political protege going up against you in Te Tai Tokerau?
      HONE: No fuss. I wish him well, as I do Kelvin Davis.
      HERALD: Obviously not wishing him to do so well he takes votes off you?
      HONE: When I say I wish him well, I do so because he is my whanaunga as is Kelvin, and I send my best wishes to them both, unconditionally.”

      That is leadership, that is mana in action.

      • weka 1.3.1

        Good comment. It’s why I don’t really understand why some people hate Harawira so much, or dismiss him as a loose cannon.

        Thanks for crossing the cultural divide marty.

        • marty mars 1.3.1.1

          Thanks weka – I always appreciate your feedback and comments.

          I think Hone has polarised people in the past but how much of it is genuine offense as opposed to reinforcement of their existing attitudes it’s hard to say. If they just listened to what he says they’d learn a lot about a lot of things that we need to learn a lot about, both individually and collectively.

          • North 1.3.1.1.1

            It’s also a bad mistake to take any notice of the projections of the talking (bald)head yuppies of Auckland and Wellington…….frankly they wouldn’t have a fucking clue about Maori and Ngapuhi and the North.

            Their bullshit templates, let’s-be-indulgently-kind-to-them, are subliminally racist at the very least, and irrelevant.

        • Anne 1.3.1.2

          I think you would find that the majority of Harawira haters are white and in the 55 plus age bracket. They haven’t moved on from the 70s and 80s when his mother, Titiwhai Harawira was probably the most reviled woman in NZ. Hone Harawira still lives in the shadow of his mother where these people are concerned. They see him as a radical misfit who is just out to cause trouble. Its so entrenched in their psyche, nothing will convince them otherwise.

          Not all of them are racist right wingers either. They simply haven’t caught up with the times.

          edit: that’s right marty mars. I’ve told a few of them to start listening to what he actually says instead if repeating old mantras. They don’t like it but you never know, they might listen – eventually.

  2. (need a (political)-laff..?..)

    “..The sphinx without a riddle – and other lethal political put-downs..”

    “..The sphinx jibe by Michael Gove’s ex-adviser –

    • which may stick to David Cameron -
    • is the latest in a rich history of cutting one liners -
    • that have plagued politicians from Gladstone to Thatcher..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2014/jun/16/sphinx-without-riddle-political-put-downs-david-cameron

  3. swordfish 3

    Some discussion here yesterday on strategic voting in Epsom

    I’ve set out the relevant stats from the 2011 vote in Epsom here…
    http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/
    (including the split-vote)

    • mickysavage 3.1

      Thanks Swordfish. Looks like Epsom Green voters were more strategic than Epsom Labour voters even though the Green candidate was not …

    • Tracey 3.2

      thanks fish

    • Wyndham, George 3.3

      David Parker screwed up in Epsom. Labour needs to be EXPLICIT in its direction to its supporters. Labour needs to erect Party Vote only hoardings and push that message at the door step.
      Michael Wood has the smarts to do that.

  4. geoff 4

    McCready is at it again.

    This time he’s filing charges against John Key & John Banks

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/247402/mccready-files-new-banks-charges

    One of the charges against Mr Key alleges he conspired to defeat the course of justice by ensuring Banks was not prosecuted by the police.
    Another charge alleges Mr Key was an accessory to the offence by being wilfully blind to the contents of the police document.

    • Tracey 4.1

      unless he has decent evidence he will struggle at first hurdle. with seperation of powers I cant see how not reading the report was anything more than political arrogance and expediency

  5. Colonial Viper 5

    World bond and share markets are slowly dying as volume and liquidity dry up and direct central bank interference takes its toll.

    GFC II is warming up, people.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-16/liquidity-becoming-serious-issue-japans-bond-market-death-goes-global

    • Lanthanide 5.1

      How many other prognostications of doom has that Zero Hedge site predicted that turned out to be true?

      How many times has it predicted a financial crash in an October which turned out not to happen?

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        They tend to under-estimate the ability of the powers-that-be to keep their game of pretend and extend going, yes.

        But remember also that the ‘end of the financial world’ is no longer just a hypothesis for tens of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands of NZers who live below the poverty line.

        • geoff 5.1.1.1

          CV, I thought the pretend and extend game could go on indefinitely because they can hide any downside in the shadow banking system?

          Isn’t that how they’ve been propping up the bond market?

  6. Paul 6

    Another biased interview by Espiner – this time of Graham Mcready.
    It’s sliding into ZB land.
    Disgraceful.

    • Chooky 6.1

      Graham McCready sounds great …what a sexy gravelly voice….us chooks are all of a flutter…what a man!

      …and he makes Espiner sound like a soft little toadie

      • bad12 6.1.1

        Better be in quick then Chooky, the bloke has a heart condition that would suggest He aint long for the mortal coil…

      • Tiger Mountain 6.1.2

        “soft little (tory) toadie”

        …like that, make an excellent epitaph for E’spinner who daily pisses over the fine traditions of Radio New Zealand

    • dimebag russell 6.2

      yeah. espiner is a slimy little bag of batshit allright.
      he looks like he crawled out of a test tube and he is full of barely repressed bile and hatred.
      the first thing Labour has to do when they regain the treasury benches is reform Radio New Zealand. find some real professionals who even if they support the other side know how to conduct the nations affairs in a proper manner.

      • Marksman33 6.2.1

        Well said dimebag, as a NatRad devotee I find myself yelling abuse at the radio on a daily basis now, the whole board has to go. Fucking National Party sycophants.

  7. (one for the immigration-fretters amongst us..john oliver takes you down..)

    “..John Oliver’s Latest Epic Rant Destroys Immigration Myths Hilariously – One by One..”

    “..If only we could build a ‘fence of facts’ –

    • to protect ourself from ‘undocumented opinions’..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/immigration/john-olivers-latest-epic-rant-destroys-immigration-myths-hilariously-one-one

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      And yet the research coming out indicates that immigration isn’t as good for the country as the people in favour of it think. It seems to me that economists said immigration is great in the same way that they said that free-trade was and now we’re paying the costs of them being more or less wrong.

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        from yr link..

        “..It is also possible that scale and agglomeration could create larger positive impacts if future migration flows increase significantly…”

        ..and ‘the negative effects conclusion’..

        ..aside from maybe some pressure on housing..

        ..doesn’t really find/cite any..

        ..(hardly up there in ‘free-trade’ territory..eh..?..)

        ..did you even read the link..?

        ..are you an nz first person/supporter..?

  8. Harry Holland 8

    Herald Digipoll http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11275259

    Laila would get into parliament if Hone holds his seat.
    IMP seems to have taken its 1.4% from the Greens (not really a scientific observation however).

    Major elements are the failure of NZ First (3.6%) meaning the Nats could govern alone with their 50.4 per cent (down 0.4), but all the cards are still held by the 12% who are undecided.

    • BM 8.1

      IMP main strategy is to strip votes from the greens and maybe pick up another 1-2% of non voters.

      IMP are trying to create a situation where Cunliffe has to have them on board if he wants to form a government.

      • phillip ure 8.1.1

        u r so full of shit..bm..

        ..as you will soon see..imp will roll out a major get-out-the-vote campaign..

        ..and if those desiring cannabis law-reform..who have traditionally voted green..

        ..heard norman confirm that ‘is not on our list of priorities’…and remember how turei so neglected the medical-marijuana bill under her charge/care..

        ..and then see the much stronger message from imp..

        ..if they switch from green to imp..that is entirely understandable..

        ..to stretch that to imp ‘targeting’ green voters..as their main-plan..

        ..is a bit of a stretch..

        ..but then you have shown here on numerous occaisons..

        ..how elastic you are with facts/the ‘truth’..

        ..eh..?

        • BM 8.1.1.1

          Hilarious, you think picking Laila Harre to lead wasn’t done with a particular objective in mind.

          Dot com is a business man, he knows how business works and politics is business.

          From a business perspective it’s much easier to convince other businesses customers to swap to your products then to try and create them from scratch.

          A large portion of the Green voter block would be very interested in what IMP has to offer and Dot com is going after them.

          • phillip ure 8.1.1.1.1

            “..Hilarious, you think picking Laila Harre to lead wasn’t done with a particular objective in mind…”

            you mean..aside from appointing an effective political-operator to lead the internet party..?

            ..one who could work well with mana/harawira..?

            ..(are you insinuating that harre was hired just because she used to work with the greens..?..)

            ..and if green voters look to imp..

            ..that is down to the greens moving to the right..having no longer any ‘bottom-lines’..

            ..and being clearly in the thrall of their desires to be ministers..

            ..(thus making them difficult to differentiate from labour..)

            ..this has all been down to the greens..and their actions/inactions/statements..

            ..nothing to do with internet/mana party…

            ..so fuck off with yr wedge-politics..

          • The Al1en 8.1.1.1.2

            “A large portion of the Green voter block would be very interested in what IMP has to offer and Dot com is going after them.”

            I’m a green voter and there’s nothing in pimp that would get me to switch my vote.

            Maybe your sentence should have read ‘those hard of thinking in the Green voter block would be very interested in what IMP has to offer and Dot com is going after them.”

            • weka 8.1.1.1.2.1

              I’m a lifetime GP voter and if I wasn’t also a tactical voter I would consider voting IMP. People wanting something more radical than the GP can offer will look their. I’m not too worried though, diversity is a good thing.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.3

            politics is business.

            No, it really isn’t but I’m not surprised to find that you’re stupid enough to think that it is.

        • The Al1en 8.1.1.2

          “.and if those desiring cannabis law-reform..who have traditionally voted green..”

          I reckon those single issue fuck nuggets have already jumped ship and vainly clinging on to hone’s waka in the faint hope of free pot for all.

      • Te Reo Putake 8.1.2

        “IMP are trying to create a situation where Cunliffe has to have them on board if he wants to form a government.”

        Nope. IMP are trying to get to a position where they have a choice of either being in Government or just voting issue by issue. The only comment I’ve seen on either option from Hone (about six months ago, therefore pre-IMP) was a preference for staying on the cross benches. What IMP have made clear is that they want this government gone. How they contribute to that in the next Parliament will depend on the numbers.

        Can I also point out that your statement seems predicated on the assumption that Hone and Laila are motivated by ego and arrogance. I think that may be a sign of your own weaknesses colouring your analysis.

    • Lanthanide 8.2

      Laila would get in if Hone holds his seat and Annette doesn’t win hers.

      They really need to be polling around 2% to comfortably ensure Laila will get in.

    • Karen 8.3

      Does any body know why the Herald Digipoll has 12% undecided and Roy Morgan polls only 5% undecided.
      It isn’t just this poll – all of them seem to have much higher undecideds than the Morgan polls ever do.

      • swordfish 8.3.1

        Yep, Roy Morgan’s the odd one out. The other 4 Public Polls always record much larger proportions of Undecideds (note: in some cases, the Undecideds include respondents who have a definite party preference but have indicated – after being specifically asked by the pollster – that they are either fairly or very unlikely to vote). I say “the other 4″, but one of those 4 (the 3 News Reid Research Poll) provides no detail whatsoever about which respondents (and how many) are excluded from their Party Support results.

    • weka 8.4

      “Major elements are the failure of NZ First (3.6%) meaning the Nats could govern alone with their 50.4 per cent (down 0.4), but all the cards are still held by the 12% who are undecided.”

      The wildcards are also what will happen to Act, UF, and the Mp. It’s unlikely that National will have enought votes to go alone.

  9. James 9

    Another poll out this morning. Depends on your leaning – But Im happy with this less than 100 days out from an election.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11275259

    Rouge or polling methodologies to blame for this one being wrong as well?

    The poll has National on 50.4 per cent (down 0.4), Labour on 30.5 (up 1), and the Green Party on 10.7 (down 2.4).

    Of the smaller parties, NZ First is on 3.6 (no change), the Conservative Party 1.5 (up 0.2), Maori Party 0.8 (up 0.6) and Act on 0.7 (down 0.1). United Future is on 0.1 (up from zero).

    Internet Mana got 1.4 – the combined total of 0.5% for Mana, the 0.2% for Internet Party and the 0.7% who said Internet Mana.

    There were 12.2 per cent undecided voters.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      It’s good that they supplied the “Undecided” figure.

      • James 9.1.1

        Indeed,

        Shall we assume (like the missing 800,000) that they are all Labour voters?

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

          Many of them will be former Labour voters after the debacle that was the 1980s.

          • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.1.1

            Um, no, CV. You’ve forgotten that they mostly came back to Labour in the Clark years, particularly at the 2002 election. They’ve been disenchanted in the last ten years, despite the achievements of her administrations. A good proportion of those eligible to vote in NZ today weren’t even born in 1984 (including your good self?). I’d suggest that the misdeeds of Douglas et al affects the vote of pretty much no one these days. MMP also gives voters more finely tuned choices, so monolithic parties are no longer the answer.

            I see two related problems; the relevance of politics in a general, and global, sense (ie convincing people that voting matters) and the difficulty of differentiating Labour from National in the minds of many Kiwi voters (the ‘they’re all the same’ factor). The former is a worldwide problem, the latter can be solved by good policy and great campaigning.

            • bad12 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Right Te Reo, or is that Te Pupeke Pine, all those aged 58 or above just don’t exist to middle aged middle class Labour,

              Yep came back to Labour initially in the ‘Clark Years’ and then walked away again in disgust at business as usual and Bene bashing…

              • Te Reo Putake

                More shallow analysis and pointless abuse. Keep telling yourself you’re a winner, Bad.

                ps, if you can be bothered switching your brain on, would you care to comment on why you think people walked away from Labour because of BAU and bene bashing when both are proven vote winners?

                • bad12

                  Another admission that you have no ability to debate anything of substance Te Pupeke Pine,

                  You are an empty suitcase Te Reo, hopefully not an indicator of the whole Party…

                • The Al1en

                  Well TRP, seems like you’re the latest villain of the hour for daring to disagree with the vocal minority.

                  For the record, I don’t remember bene bashing under Clark.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Broad shoulders, thick skin, Al1en. As Dutch footballers say, it’s not arrogance, it’s self belief!

                    • The Al1en

                      Good on ya. Like English footballers say, don’t pass it to that donkey Rooney.

                    • bad12

                      Broadly thick is how i would put it Te Reo and i aint talking about ya shoulders…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Your real problem, Bad, is your complete inability to construct and sustain an argument. Have a look at the responses of CV and TM to the questions raised this morning. They used fact, anecdote and critical reasoning to put their case. In the absence of coherent thought, all you’ve got is inanity and brutality. You are, in political and intellectual terms, the equivalent of the security thug who assaulted the streaker on Saturday.

                    • bad12

                      Which makes you in my opinion the streaker Te Reo…

                  • there you go..trp..

                    ..you have a fan..!

                    ..and allen doesn’t ‘remember bene bashing under Clark.’..

                    ..so obviously..it never happened..

                    ..just say that/quote allen often enough..eh..?

                    ..and you might even grow to believe it..eh..?

                    (..aww..!!..you two seem made for each other..

                    ..let’s hope something comes of it..eh..?..)

                    • The Al1en

                      “.you have a fan..!”

                      More an observation, but as it goes, I find TRP’s points usually well put and thought out.

                      “so obviously..it never happened.”

                      Another observation, based on fact. Always happy to be shown the error of my ways, even if it goes against personal experience.

                      “.just say that/quote allen often enough..eh.”

                      I’m sure TRP has plenty better sources than I.

                      “(..aww..!!..you two seem made for each other..
                      ..let’s hope something comes of it..eh..?..)”

                      I’m thinking you’re a little bitter/sad/nasty/desperate/snide.
                      Thought weed was supposed to mellow you out, but maybe you have a very high tolerance.
                      I don’t know if you need to smoke more or less, but I’d suggest doing something, ’cause you’re reading a little wonkey this side of reality.

                  • bad12

                    What would you call the design of the Working for Families tax credit scheme Alien, a love fest aimed at the children of beneficiaries perhaps…

                    • The Al1en

                      Tax credits for working families, bad, just like it says on the label, which is cash loaded at the lower end of the scale to help those in poor paid jobs, and assist those who re-enter the workforce in part time employ.

                    • bad12

                      Deliberately designed as such so as not to include beneficiaries with children even tho they all pay tax,

                      Another nice Kick from a previous Labour Government that income tax applied to benefits…

                    • The Al1en

                      “Deliberately designed as such so as not to include beneficiaries with children even tho they all pay tax,”

                      It’s an in work tax credit. What bit do you not get?

                    • bad12

                      Now i see what Teo Reo and the Alien have in common, they are both broadly thick and i aint talking here about their knees,

                      Broadly thick by design i would suggest, i suppose when leaping from pin-head to pin-head fails, being deliberately broadly thick is the obvious default position…

                    • The Al1en

                      “Now i see what Teo Reo and the Alien have in common, they are both broadly thick and i aint talking here about their knees,

                      Broadly thick by design i would suggest, i suppose when leaping from pin-head to pin-head fails, being deliberately broadly thick is the obvious default position…”

                      Because we disagree with you. Great debating skills, bad. :dismissive smirk:

                    • @ the allen..

                      ..and you approve of the poorest families being left out/ignored by clark..?

                      ..seriously..!..you are a fucken green..?

                    • The Al1en

                      “@ the allen..
                      ..and you approve of the poorest families being left out/ignored by clark..?
                      ..seriously..!..you are a fucken green..?”

                      By left out I assume you mean not included in an in work tax credit scheme because they are not in work, then yes, I approve.
                      That’s not bene bashing.

                      I don’t hear you bleating on about single people not getting ird wff tax credits, or married/de facto couple without kids getting top ups. Why? Because they aren’t eligible, for obvious reasons.

                      Kin ‘el, next you’ll be wanting loyalty payments for people who aren’t loyal, or bonuses for people who don’t deserve them :lol:

                      Doesn’t mean I don’t support increases to the unemployment benefit or other policies like free health/dental for non workers, far from it.

                  • Tiger Mountain

                    Bene bashing under Labour was structural as is Nationals but minus much of Pullyer Benefat and ShonKey’s rhetoric and open war on the poor.

                    under Lab–’99–’05
                    • WFF, Working For Families in work tax credit. A top up for certain groups including the ‘working poor’ but mainly mid level ’strugglers’ not extended to those out of work or in receipt of a benefit. This had the effect of subsidising employers via taxpayers rather than workers organising through unions for their own wage increases.

                    • “Jobs Jolt” Beneficiaries proscribed where they could live, tougher case management regimes with endless useless seminars and reporting requirements which if not met resulted in cuts to or cancellation of benefits.

                    • Emphasis on the old ‘work will set you free’ beloved of Randians and Paula Rebstock, a gap was maintained between those in work and those receiving benefits. Richardson cuts never reinstated despite the history and evidence surrounding the negative effects on poor communities. Pressure to merge the various benefits, pressure on sickness and invalids beneficiaries.

                    Labour continued the mutation of social welfare to sadistic social punishment, made possible by maintaining a level of unemployment to put downward pressure on wages.

                    • The Al1en

                      I was unemployed a couple of times during Clark’s terms and I never felt bashed at all.

                    • weka

                      Removal of the hardship grant Special Benefit, which means that many medium or long term beneficiaries are in a much worse situation than before.

                    • weka

                      “I was unemployed a couple of times during Clark’s terms and I never felt bashed at all.”

                      Doesn’t mean others weren’t.

                    • but we have already established you are as aware as a sack of fucken doorknobs..?

                      ..eh..?

                      ..do you just deny the facts of the matter t. mountain just laid out for you..?

                    • The Al1en

                      “Doesn’t mean others weren’t.”

                      Of course it doesn’t, and I’ve not suggested otherwise, and like I wrote above “observation, based on fact. Always happy to be shown the error of my ways, even if it goes against personal experience.”

                      “Removal of the hardship grant Special Benefit, which means that many medium or long term beneficiaries are in a much worse situation than before.”

                      I applied for and always got temporary additional support every three months, just like I’m doing now.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz Phillip @ ”as aware as a sack of door-knobs” with deliberation i would suggest,

                      A ”novel” debating stratagem, ”play dumb” such armour is hard to pierce…

                    • The Al1en

                      “but we have already established you are as aware as a sack of fucken doorknobs..?
                      ..eh..?”

                      Says Mr Astute, the psychoactive astronaut. :lol:

                      “..do you just deny the facts of the matter t. mountain just laid out for you..?”

                      What facts?
                      Wff has nothing to do with bene bashing.
                      Tougher case management regimes with endless useless seminars and reporting requirements – So what? If you want the money you do it. It’s what I had to do and didn’t consider it bashing at all.
                      Work didn’t set me free, but the wages did, and that can’t be denied. When I get another job, the money will do the same, no doubt about that.

                    • Tiger Mountain

                      The Household Labour Force Survey repeatedly shows more people looking for work or discouraged than are in receipt of an unemployment benefit so the negative strategies run first by Labour and now by National are ‘working’ in the counter productive way their authors intended.

                      It is a lot of work to stay on the pittance of a benefit these days, and if you are ill or mentally exhausted many doctors as shown in yesterdays ACC debate here are well ensconced in the system to add to your torment.

                      I have a barely mobile mate on daily home dialysis who WINZ Henderson still regularly hound to be ‘work ready’. I don’t like admitting this but his family out of desperation actually contacted Waitakere MP Bennett who could not deny the treatment and actually helped get things like extra home help and bathroom fittings and back payments for several years. Things that WINZ staff should have automatically done; except the general settings and policy courtesy of Paula Bennett mitigate against that.

                      High unemployment, anti union law, low union density, 90 day fire at will all create the perfect storm of compliant workers too scared to get their rights at work and then too intimidated to get their due from the social security safety net when needed.

                    • weka

                      “I applied for and always got temporary additional support every three months, just like I’m doing now.”

                      TAS is capped, Special Benefit wasn’t. TAS is considered a temporary benefit, Special Benefit could be paid more easily over a longer period of time. When TAS was brought in, hoop jumping was increased significantly. More pressure and stress is applied to people getting TAS the longer they are on it. It also depends on where you are in the country, as with most WINZ policy, it is applied unevenly.

                      People on long term benefits shouldn’t have to reapply every 3 months, unless their circumstances change which would be picked up in the yearly review anyway. It might be easy for you, but for some people that degree of paper work is a barrier. Think of some of the most vulnerable people like those on benefits for long term mental health reasons, or people who are ill and have no car to attend WINZ meetings. Or people without the skills to deal with bureaucracy. They’re the ones who will not be getting their entitlements.

                • bad12

                  PS Te Reo, your ps is just too hilarious to spoil the laughter here,(at you),and answer at this point in the morning,

                  Bene Bashing is a definite vote winner,(insert made laughter), what a nice admission from Labour…

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Again, your ignorance leaves you looking foolish. Putting the boot into the poor and disenfranchised has won elections for centuries. Whether you know it or not, it’s a sad fact of the electoral process (and the human inclination to find someone less fortunate to blame).

                    Here’s what it looks like in the UK, right now, number four in particular:

                    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_national_billboard_campaign

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The more that mainstream socially liberal parties ignore and dismiss the genuine grievances and anger of the population, the more that fascist movements will find traction and take hold.

                    • bad12

                      i see no ignorance pinhead jumper, all’s i see is someone happily touting bashing beneficiaries as a means of gathering votes…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Poor bad, comprehension is clearly not your strong suit, is it? Wanna have a crack at finding any comment where I tout bashing beneficiaries as a means of getting votes? I’ve only been commenting here a few years, if you dig real deep there must be one somewhere.*

                      *Time saving tip: there isn’t one.

            • phillip ure 9.1.1.1.1.2

              “.. despite the achievements of her administrations…”

              and they were..?..aside from neo-lib treading-water..?

              ..her war on poverty..(heh..!..eh..?..)

              ..how the environment was so much better after she left than before she came..?..(once again..heh..!..eh..?..)

              ..how she fought/worked to end the third world diseases of poverty previous labour/national regimes engendered..?..(once again..heh..!..eh..?)

              ..and i did a more detailed takedown of clarks’ time in a long poem/rambling prose i wrote on her departure to the u.n….

              (shamelessly stealing the format from gil-scott-herons’..’but whitey is on the moon’..but i hope he wouldn’t mind..)

              “..comment@whoar:..the kids up north have still got rotten teeth…but hey..!..helen’s at the u.n..eh..?..”

              http://whoar.co.nz/2009/commentwhoarthe-kids-up-north-have-still-got-rotten-teethbut-heyhelens-at-the-uneh/

              • Te Reo Putake

                Do I have to repeat the ‘bloody Romans’ list for those with short term memory issues?

                • Colonial Viper

                  I’d suggest that the misdeeds of Douglas et al affects the vote of pretty much no one these days.

                  ?

                  Rogernomics and Ruthanasia combined reduced union membership numbers in NZ by 250,000 or more. Many of those people were Labour affiliate members. Each of those would have paid regular money into Labour.

                  Not only them, but the kids that they were bringing up, what was the talk around dinner table like as Dad was getting laid off by a Labour Government, and then both Mum and Dad divorced due to losing their house?

                  How can you say that those events affects the votes of pretty much no one these days? The Thorndon Bubble crowd might have a kind of a-historical amnesia, but not everyone else does.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Good points, CV, but the Lange government is simply not relevant to people’s decision making these days. You are right that the legacy lingers on, but it’s just not a gamebreaker in voters’ heads these days. It certainly was in the nineties, but I haven’t met too many people in my door knocking who say that they won’t give even one tick to Labour under MMP because of their mistakes under FPP last century.

                    Or to put it another way, our society is still plagued by the failures of that eighties Government, but only a tragic minority still vote based on being let down last century. Most people are living in the now, day to day, week to week. It’s the issues of today that guide their vote (or their non-vote).

                    • just saying

                      TRP, people are still living the intergenerational poverty and demoralisation that Labour created. They don’t need to have personal memories or historical details, they just need to know the reality of their own lives. These are the issues of today.
                      And it is these people who continue to be disowned by Labour – blamed by their abusers as is always the case.
                      Until Labour faces the consequences of its actions it will continue to sink into well-deserved oblivion.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      30% in the polls isn’t oblivion. In fact it’s an improvement on the actual vote at the last election, so it’s fair to say that the Lange years are having no effect at all on Labour’s current standing and we stand or fall on our current policies and leadership. In terms of election 2014, it’s ancient history. It was, after all, thirty years ago.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Wow TRP, just wow.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Cheers, CV, I live for your endorsements!

                      But, to be more serious, if you have any evidence that anyone, anywhere, is still reliving the Lange years when they go into the polling booth thirty years later, I’d love to see it. And more to the point, if you have evidence that lots of voters are still rehashing 1984 and its an actual trend that influences electoral outcomes, I’d be fascinated to see the results. I mean, like Japanese soldiers in the asian jungle who don’t know the war is over, there may be little clusters of ex labour voters staying warm by huddling round their burning membership cards, but I really doubt it makes a difference these days.

                    • and..trp..you are ‘someone’ in labour..eh..?

                      ..and you think people have forgotten when the labour party decided to fuck them over…

                      ..and how the labour party since that fucking over of their traditional voters..

                      ..has done nothing to repair it..?

                      ..that is actually quite depressing..

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Ah, Phil. Bloody Romans, what have they ever done for us?

                    • ..and yr ‘burning membership cards’ sneer just marks u as an arsehole..eh..?

                      ..as uncaring/unthinking as those national pricks..

                      ..tweedle dum..and tweedle fucken dee..

                      ..i hop yr fucken vote collapses..

                      ..you deserve nothing fucken more..

                      ..you uncaring/poor-bashing neo-lib/randite arsewipe…

                    • The Al1en

                      “and yr ‘burning membership cards’ sneer just marks u as an arsehole..eh..?
                      ..as uncaring/unthinking as those national pricks..
                      ..tweedle dum..and tweedle fucken dee..
                      ..i hop yr fucken vote collapses..
                      ..you deserve nothing fucken more..
                      ..you uncaring/poor-bashing neo-lib/randite arsewipe…”

                      Slogans for sale, who will buy my lovely slogans. :lol:

                    • bad12

                      Te Reo is absolutely facinating, brushing aside all with such stunning debate its a wonder us lot haven’t all bowed as one to the sheer and utter wisdom of it all,

                      Douglas/Lange destroyed Labour to the point of 30% now being in Te Reo’s world a great result,

                      Te Reo’s crystal ball has it that there are but a ‘few’ who have not returned to the fold, 10% few Lolz,

                      i would suggest that the ”harshing of the buzz” might have done quite a bit of damage to other than the buzz this morning…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Poor, poor Bad. He’s forgotten all those elections since the eighties where Labour scored way more than 30% (all of them bar one, btw). Was that Lange’s fault too? Like it or not, time has relentlessly marched on and nobody much gives a flying one about events three decades ago. As I said a few hours ago, people vote on the here and now.

                      As to your other comprehension fail, MMP has more to do with Labour’s current polling than Lange. The left has some credible and electable alternatives now and I confident predict Labour will never win another election. Because it doesn’t have to under MMP.

                    • bad12

                      Boing boing boing, from pinhead to pinhead it goes, so Labour’s dole-drums are the fault of MMP,

                      A superb piece of analysis Te Reo, Labour should hire you on as the campaign manager..

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Right you are, Bad. As I’ve mentioned earlier, you can’t construct an argument. You’re stuck with phlegm flecked invective, when you know it just makes you look lame. Try putting up actual reasons why I might be wrong. It’s what the adults do.

              • The Al1en

                “and i did a more detailed takedown of clarks’ time in a long poem/rambling prose i wrote on her departure”

                A tenner to you if you don’t post it here :)

                • done..send the tenner to safe…

                  ..they are currently doing good anti-vivisector/vivisection work..

                  • The Al1en

                    Thank heavens for small mercies, and I mean the poem, not the anti medical, human life improving research tribe.

                    • the green-vivisector..eh..?

                      ..you are almost beyond fucken belief..

                      ..just why do you vote fucken green..?

                      (i eat them..and i support torturing them..

                      ..are you the portrait of a thoroughly modern green..?

                      ..are you..?..

                      ..not so much ‘green’..as puce..eh..?..)

                    • The Al1en

                      “..just why do you vote fucken green..?”

                      I have many reasons to vote green, but not being a single issue lwnj, don’t let one or two policies I disagree with dictate my world view.

                      “i eat them..and i support torturing them..”

                      I am an omnivore and meat is part (a very small part on a benefit) of my diet.
                      I don’t like animal testing for cosmetics and would agree to ban the practice, but am okay with testing for medical research.

                      “.are you the portrait of a thoroughly modern green..?”

                      I doubt I’m a portrait of anything thoroughly modern, so I will answer no.

                      “not so much ‘green’..as puce..eh..?.”

                      puse, peuse” or peuce is a dark red or purple brown colour, a brownish purple or a dark reddish brown.

                      Still voting green party vote and Sue Moroney electorate, so just like the eyes.

                    • just send the ten bucks to safe..

                    • adding blood to green..gives you puce…

                      ..’tis the colour of the green-carnivore..

                      ..have ‘green-bbq’s’..d’ya..?

                    • The Al1en

                      “adding blood to green..gives you puce…

                      ..’tis the colour of the green-carnivore..

                      ..have ‘green-bbq’s’..d’ya..?”

                      As lwnj go, you’re certainly put the nut job in to barking at the moon.
                      I’m not a carnivore, I’m an omnivore, just like my evolved body intended, so green omnivore would be more accurate.
                      Just for the record, are you stating that only veggies and veganauts can vote green? Bloody funny if you are.

                    • when will u b sending the ten bucks to safe..?

                    • The Al1en

                      “when will u b sending the ten bucks to safe..?”

                      I won’t be, so don’t hold your breath or a limp lettuce leaf, though feel free to continue waving your baby carrot and twin peas all over the show.

                    • piker..!

                      “..your baby carrot and twin peas..”

                      ..who told you..?

                    • The Al1en

                      Space head says what?

        • Tracey 9.1.1.2

          do you agree with popular wisdom that apathy amongst voters impacts left more than right

          • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.2.1

            You asking me, Tracey? If so, yes. The apathetic may well be disenchanted with a system they believe does not bring positive change. Only the left is interested in bringing positive change, so it probably follows that their votes should go to the left.

        • swordfish 9.1.1.3

          James (in sarky mood): “Shall we assume…that they are all Labour voters ?”

          Nyet, Jamie-Boy, nyet. But it IS probably safe to assume that the proportion of Undecideds desiring a change of government massively out-weighs the proportion favouring the status-quo. That’s certainly the message from the Fairfax Media-Ipsos Polls over the last 12 months. Here…….http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/fairfax-ipsos-poll-february-2014.html

          Now, fortunately for excitable (if relatively daft) young Tory lads like yourself, the Undecideds are likely to figure disproportionately among non-voters come September. A sizeable chunk of them, however, will indeed vote and they’ll almost certainly play their part in National’s traditional Election-day nose-dive (relative their pre-Election poll rating).

    • RedBaronCV 9.2

      Figures could still be presented better though, they give a false impression. The decided votes add up to 100% leaving out the 12.2% undecided. False use of %’s

      But the reality is that the Nacts have only 50 votes out of 112 so that’s a bare 45% and this poll leans to the right.

      • James 9.2.1

        Im pretty sure that they only count the people that actually made a decision. Just like the election.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1

          But the polls have not yet closed for election day, so understanding potential turnout of undecideds is all important :)

    • Enough is Enough 9.3

      This poll is utterly depressing.

      So is the blind optimism around here

      • swordfish 9.3.1

        No, I can’t see much in the way of “blind optimism” here. Just keeping things in perspective (grounded in the obvious polling trends from previous elections). The Right Bloc are certainly ahead, but not to the degree that current polling suggests. Not because there’s some sort of “massive conspiracy” between Pollsters and the MSM and the National Party to make up poll figures as they go along – that’s clearly paranoid bollocks* – but because we know that poll ratings for the Nats / Right Bloc were consistently and significantly over-stated (month after month) in the 18 month lead-up to both of the last 2 Elections. The Nats’ monthly poll averages are still well down compared to both 2008 and 2011.

        We still, however, need to shift at least 2 percent from Right to Left (or to mobilise the equivalent from previous / erstwhile non-voters).

        *(having said that, it’s clearly NOT bollocks to suggest that the MSM’s dodgy rendition of poll results often leaves a LOT to be desired).

  10. geoff 10

    Good result for Internet-Mana in the herald’s TORY-POLL: 1.5%

    • James 10.1

      And it came from the Greens – So thats good news as well – I think they may poll higher come the election – again from the Greens.

      • geoff 10.1.1

        You have no idea where the votes for IMP came from.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1

          But he is also willing to lie about it with the pretence of certainty. Which makes James either untrustworthy, or a fool, or possibly both.

          • James 10.1.1.1.1

            OK – I will say that it is my guess that they came from the Greens. So you cannot accuse me of being a liar – just a fool (in your humble opinion). Of course the proof will be in the eating of the election night results on that one.

            Perhaps its my best wishes that make me think that way. But either way a very good result for National again. Less than 100 days .

            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1.1

              If National are to finally cross the line, they will have to do it by riding atop Colin “Crazy” Craig. That will be a sight to behold.

            • swordfish 10.1.1.1.1.2

              James: “…a very good result for National again. Less than 100 days.”

              (1) Compared to the last poll (Roy Morgan – Late May), Nat down 2.1 points, Lab up 1.5 points, Green up 1.7 points, Left Bloc up / Right Bloc down, so, yep, relatively good news. Clearly, the Nats reached their peak in late May and now they’re embarking on a slow-but-inevitable downward journey.

              (2) At about this point in the electoral cycle in 2011, the Nats’ poll ratings ranged from a low of 51.5% to a high of 57.1%. They, of course, ended up on just 47%.

              Over recent weeks, the Nats have oscillated between 42.5% and 52.5%. So possibly not quite as spiffing for the Tories as you seem to assume.

              • Colonial Viper

                Over recent weeks, the Nats have oscillated between 42.5% and 52.5%. So possibly not quite as spiffing for the Tories as you seem to assume.

                Very roughly, that’s 5% down on last time. 7 MPs worth of difference. And that’s not including ACT and Maori Party vanishing in to smoke.

        • phillip ure 10.1.1.2

          james and bm are just attempting a (clumsy) exercise in wedge-politics..

          • bad12 10.1.1.2.1

            The Herald editorial on this poll was highly amusing, the more of it i subjected myself to, the more the snakes tongue forked,

            From the fantasy of ”Govern alone” it hastily retreated into the realm of a major series of wet dreams, including pointing out the TV1 and TV3 polls had given the same sort of numbers so it just had to be true,

            Limping along to its final glorious climax, possibly in the belief that No-one ever reads a Herald editorial that far, came the admission that National have never reached such heights of support at the actual election…

            • karol 10.1.1.2.1.1

              Actually, the funny thing is that the Nats are down and Labour up in that poll, albeit by one point and within the margin of error. But, imagine if it had been Labour down one and Nats up one, how the MSM would have gone on about the rise in Nat support and drop in Labour’s?

            • framu 10.1.1.2.1.2

              the other bit i noticed was the figure of people who said they had no problem with coat tailing and the fact it bears 0 resemblance with the fact coat tailing was the biggest issue that the electoral commission discovered when looking at tweaking mmp

              • bad12

                The problem i have with your ‘reasoning’ framu is that barely 1% of the population got to make submissions to the Electoral Commission,

                Changing the electoral system at the behest of the 1%, no matter who they are isn’t my idea of democracy,

                A referendum asking if coat-tailing should be abolished yes/no, and the options of what % of Party Vote should be the measurement to gain seats in the Parliament, 4%, 3%, 2%, 1% tick one, should be the only means of making any change to the electoral system,

                Allowing the Electoral Commission to make such changes based upon the submissions of the 1% is no different than the old system of the political parties making submissions on the electorate boundaries and the Electoral Commission then making the decisions,

                it has to be ‘Our’ democracy or it aint one…

  11. Chooky 11

    Bugger the polls( the pollsters are not to be trusted or their polls…as Jim Bolger found out!)

    …and Winston always defies the polls…he will be BACK in or i will eat my cat!

    Winnie the darls will bring in a Left coalition government!

    …and John Key and the NACTS and Goldman Sachs will eat their hearts out

    • James 11.1

      Whilst you can never count Winston out – I wouldn’t bet my house on his supporting the Left.

      • Lanthanide 11.1.1

        Yes, very good of John Key to do an 180 degree spin on his “could never work with Winston” line, after also saying all of his constituency is dying off, eh?

  12. bad12 12

    Sauteed or raw???…

  13. NZ Tories show again their incestuous feelings towards Mother Britain:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/british-democracy-and-other-myths.html

    • Wyndham, George 13.1

      It is ironic that people should write such tosh while those closest to the “British” he adores are about to bring the United Kingdom to an end. The people of Scotland will vote on Independance on the 18th of September.
      The gap in the polls has been closing and is now down to 4: YES 48 and NO 52.

      The rump will be England and Northern Ireland!

  14. Colonial Viper 14

    Clumsy indeed…more like their attempt at wedgie politics.

  15. Nakiman 15

    The Left really are getting a hiding in the polls. The greens must be worried that La La is targeting their voters. She is not there’re for here knowledge of the internet, she has only recently joined facebook and when interviewed she didn’t even know who her ISP is.

    • Tiger Mountain 15.1

      …is pud pulling a major pastime in ’Naki?

    • karol 15.2

      Nats down slightly, Labour up slightly – yep definitely major rise in Nats’ favour.

      • Nakiman 15.2.1

        I didn’t say there was a major rise in Nats favour, the last few polls have been very similar, that makes them more credible than a rouge poll.

        • swordfish 15.2.1.1

          Can we assume that James and Nakiman are one and the same person ?

          Both (James 7:52 am / Nakiman 10:55 am ) spell “rogue” (as in “rogue poll”) as “Rouge”.

          Or are they (ie he ) agreeing with us that the latest Herald-Digipoll is, indeed, good for the Red team ?

          [lprent: doesn’t seem particularly likely from what I can see. ]

          • Nakiman 15.2.1.1.1

            I don’t know James. He might have had the same English teacher.
            You can blame Jim Hickey he was my English teacher.
            How is National being able to govern alone good for the red team?

          • James 15.2.1.1.2

            Nope – Different folk – but dont let that stop you putting on the tin foil hat.

            Im just a lousy speller.

            And I’ve been to the Naki – Didnt like it.

          • dimebag russell 15.2.1.1.3

            they are the one and same automatically generated vapid political clogging viruses that infect the real blogs.

        • phillip ure 15.2.1.2

          u and yr make-up-polls…eh..?

    • swordfish 15.3

      Nakiman “The Left really are getting a hiding in the polls.”

      Nah, you appear to be talking through a hole in your posterior.

      Left Bloc Poll Ratings

      (1) Latest Herald-Digipoll (June 2014)
      Left Bloc 43%

      (2) Previous two Polls
      Roy Morgan (Late May 2014)
      Left Bloc 39%

      3 News Reid Research (Mid May 2014)
      Left Bloc 41%

      So, Left 2 points and 4 points higher than in previous two polls.

      (3) 2011 Election
      Left Bloc 40%

      So, Left in latest poll up 3 points on 2011 Election result.

      (4) 2008 Election
      Left Bloc 42%

      So, Left slightly up on 08.

      • Nakiman 15.3.1

        I hate to break it to you swordfish but left bloc at 43% is getting a hiding in the polls.
        When National are polling at 50% the left are screwed.
        The reason the 2011 election votes were lower than the previous polling is the cup of tea fiasco in Epsom.
        If you look at the graphs Labour has been toast since Cunners took over.

        • bad12 15.3.1.1

          Nakahiman, what makes you such an amusing little sideshow is the fact that i actually see you believing the utter rubbish you write,

          Face it, no Maori Party means Slippery the Prime Minister must give Colon the Conservative a seat, if not National are warming the leather on the opposition benches,

          Even with Colon the Conservative having been bestowed the gift there is no guarantee that National can gather the numbers Epsom being doubtful,

          You might want to cherish that dream of National polling better than they managed in 2011,(and that was off of higher rating opinion polls than currently being exhibited by the cheerleaders,the Herald and TV’s 1 and 3), but my pick for the Blue Rinsers in 2014 45% max,

          One hell of a big opposition…

        • Nakiman 15.3.1.2

          Here is the link.
          Now you can stop you spin and bullshit.
          Therapy might help your denial.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11275259

  16. Pete 16

    Owen Glenn’s report into domestic violence is sadly a missed opportunity. His suggestion to reverse the burden of proof and impose guilt on accusation is ludicrous in that it requires the defendant to prove a negative. It is open to all kinds of abuse – particularly around messy relationship dissolutions and custody battles. This kind of approach is a dark path to go down.

    • Gosman 16.1

      It would be the single biggest retrograde change that could be made to the justice system short of introducing something like the Judge system from 2000 AD.

    • framu 16.2

      thats my major flag there as well, for the same reasons.

      Ok – im no expert on the topic – but do we actually have a problem with identifying who is an abuser? or is it more of a problem with how seriously we treat and investigate accusations and incidents, and the resources available for follow up and enforcement of court orders?

      would love to know more on this angle if anyones more knowledgable here

    • Lanthanide 16.3

      What we need is an inquisitorial system for these cases. I’m not sure why the report didn’t just recommend that instead of going off into cloud-cuckoo land.

    • ianmac 16.4

      In his interview this morning Owen Glenn dodged the question about reversing the burden of proof by saying that it would be after the man was convicted. Huh???

  17. Anne 17

    I see Cunliffe has “dismissed” the claim that Lui donated $15,000 to the Labour Party. No trace of such a donation has been found in their files. After Mike Williams said yesterday he had no recollection of any such donation from Liu – and as Labour’s Campaign Manager he would have known – it crossed my mind it was a falsehood spread by someone in the Nat Party. Cameron Slater anyone?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/247360/labour-dismisses-big-donation-claim

    • Ant 17.1

      Yeah, could have been a fundraiser but not for Labour, a book signed by Helen for charity.

      Also Cunliffe spent way too much time on that question, he should have answered and dismissed it.

    • Nakiman 17.2

      Anne I think you are forgetting that Labour are expert at funnelling secret donations.
      Does secret trusts ring a bell?

    • Francis 17.3

      Did Labour give any special treatment to Lui? Because that’s what the problem was with his donation to National – not so much the donation on it’s own.

      If the MSM is suggesting that we get rid of large donations altogether, I certainly would have no problem with that. But I doubt that’s what they want, somehow…

  18. Marg 18

    It seems to me too early to say one way or the other what the outcome is going to be, polls really can’t be taken seriously anyway, although trends are interesting. I have been ringing around the electorate I am in over the last 4 weeks or so and find a large number of very disinterested and undecided voters. Some who didn’t vote last election, some not for at least 2 elections say although they would like to vote they have no confidence in any party so won’t vote this election either. Then there’s a group who give no thought at all to political goings on. This group have no idea who the local MP is or any other list MPs that are from the electorate, and some of them admitted they never listen or watch news or radio bulletins or mentally ‘switch off’ when politics is mentioned and one person said’ quite frankly I don’t understand it all’. Those who have responded more positively generally have their electoral vote sorted but most are undecided about their party vote which suggests that some strategic thinking is taking place. Some in this group also say they are not prepared to make up their minds until closer to the election and many noted the significance of the leaders debate in their final decision. So in all it is rather a fascinating process and will be interesting to see in the ringing around process what shifts there are.

    • bad12 18.1

      Might i inquire Marg on who’s behalf you were ”ringing round the electorate”, and, which one???…

    • Francis 18.2

      Strangely enough, I haven’t come across many voters who are completely disinterested. For those who don’t believe that any party works for them, I always encourage them to at least turn up and write on their voting paper that they want someone who works for them.

      It sends more of a message than not voting at all (as in that case, you’re lumped in with those who are just too lazy to vote, etc).

  19. Tautoko Viper 19

    I am trying to design a T-shirt explaining why I vote left. (Francis Owen has designed some fantastic posters (Google Francis Owen Vote) or the link below.) which Frank Mackasy has used on some of his posts.

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=francis+owen&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0G6fU6mYOIjMkwXAn4Eo&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=630#q=francis+owen+vote&tbm=isch

    I am having some difficulty in getting maximum impact in minimum words.
    Any ideas? I don’t think I would have the guts to wear what I REALLY would like to write on the shirt!

    • weka 19.1

      A t-shirt is a great idea! The pictures in your link are not the best aspect ratio for a T. Need something that is vertical if you want the words to be big enough to be read.

      Why do you vote left?

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Most of those are too complicated/messy. Need to simplify them so that the message is clearer and gets across faster.

    • marty mars 19.3

      How about,

      I vote left

      You alright?
      I’m all left

      for a 20 minute conversation ask me why I vote left

      right? right??? right?????
      nah I’m a leftie

      last one left

      I got left by my mum and dad
      I got left by my mates
      I got left by myself
      I vote left

      btw – They’re all separate not one big long one and I’m trying to be funny :) You might get an idea out of them all – good luck

    • blue leopard 19.4

      I suggest be brave and put what you would really like on the t-shirt.
      :D

      […so what is your idea….? ….go on spill]

      some rather unoriginal ideas:
      [something about] “people before profits”

      ‘because I like to drink water, not cowshit’

      ‘because I’m not a sell-out’
      “because I’m not an arsehole”

      “because I want people to run the country, not clowns”

  20. Draco T Bastard 20

    The myth of Magna Carta

    An interesting look at what is usually described as the founding document of English law.

  21. dimebag russell 21

    further to the last communique.
    RNZ National now playing soft porn.
    Not that I mind a bit of Jackie Collins every now and again but this is vapid pap.
    good interview with Peter Williams.
    5*

  22. g says 22

    i heard that the south canterbury finance collapse is dragging its way through the courts.
    what caught my imagination was that the $1.7 billion bail out was made because of the new zealand deposit guarantee scheme.

    what about a new zealand child poverty prevention guarantee scheme?

    i am sure for less than $1.7 billion we could raise the quality of life for our most vulnerable citizens.

    education/schools seems like a good place to start.
    a teacher aid in all classes.
    breakfast and lunch in all schools.

    • The Al1en 22.1

      “i am sure for less than $1.7 billion we could raise the quality of life for our most vulnerable citizens.”

      But they don’t own farms, large tracts of land and vote tory.

  23. McFlock 23

    whatever happened to that roymorgan Apia Rose and the other tories were wanking about a day or two back? Can’t find anything online. Did it even exist? Anyone got a link?

    • veutoviper 23.1

      Don’t know, but a Roy Morgan poll should be due out anytime now, covering the fortnight 2 – 15 June inclusive. Nothing as yet on their website.

      However, this is the second time in a row that some people here and on one or two other blogs claim to know the Roy Morgan results before they are publicly released. (I think it was Public Address where I saw something on the last RM poll before it had been released and a short discussion on this.)

      • Te Reo Putake 23.1.1

        It does get emailed out to subscribers shortly before it goes up on the website, so one or two commenters here do get the jump on the rest. But that’s minutes rather than days.

        • Tiger Mountain 23.1.1.1

          The last Roy Morgan was quoted accurately in the maggoty biscuit barrel known as TradeMe message board by a regular there one full day ahead of public and media release. I mistakenly said two days on Public Address and was ‘savaged’ by Pete George.

          But it was definitely early. Another PA poster reckoned you can select ‘follow this page’ and you get the early view. Will have a look.

          • Te Reo Putake 23.1.1.1.1

            ‘savaged’

            Gummy lips toothlessly slobbering over the legs of your Levi’s?

          • McFlock 23.1.1.1.2

            My goodness, that must have been the intellectual highlight of your life, even to be mentioned by such a wise and noble thinker…

    • Tracey 23.2

      That was fizzy…

  24. i was gonna do a commentary on q-time..

    ..but i am at q 9..

    ..and i got nuthin’ to say…

    ..save that peters has got a serious case of the hand shakes..

    ..and the point-scoring/uncaring etc from national/bennett about child-poverty..

    ..is kinda puke-inducing..

  25. Undecided 25

    This probably does not interest many, but I am really concerned about Key’s visit to the US. I want to force the issue of retaining our nuclear free status, because I believe that Key is going to sell us out. The US want an increased presence in the Pacific and I believe part of that will be using NZ as a base for their ships. How does someone get a definitive answer on this issue?

    • i am more worried about the fact that key was so gung-ho to join in the bush-invasion of iraq..

      ..that he is now there..on the spot..

      ..and jonesing to join in any re-invasion of iraq..

  26. joe90 26

    Myanmar Buddhist leader explaining support for ethnic cleansing – “Muslims .. are like African catfish”

    http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000002939059/21st-century-concentration-camps.html

  27. vto 27

    Big ups to the boss of Landcorp for finally acknowledging the real problems and simple dirty pollution that farming creates for the environment in NZ http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/10166115/Environmental-record-a-key-Landcorp-concern

    Also noted that Fed Farmers boss Bruce Wills said much the same thing a couple of weeks ago and acknowledged that farming as it operates now is unsustainable. He framed it that “the science had not kept up with farming”, when in reality it is that farming has charged ahead of the science with no justification for such charge other than financial greed. He acknowledged that in many situations simple destocking looks like the only option, amongst much more.

    But at least the farming sector is standing up and acknowledging what has been put in front of them the last years or more…. good for them and lets hope it translates into positive improvement for our environment ….

    Take a bow scientist Mike Joy..

    and be ashamed previous Fed Farmers boss Don Nicholson ..

    onwards

    • and that polluting-clown nicholson has now joined the other climate-change-denying clowns in act..

      ..and is standing for them somewhere in the deep south..

  28. Morrissey 28

    New Zealand’s mad, sad version of Hannity and Colmes
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 17 June 2014
    Jim Mora, Michelle Boag, Brian Edwards

    Jim Mora’s light chat show The Panel has long been a refuge for the dim (John Barnett, Garth “Gaga” George, Christine Spankin’ Rankin), the pompous (Chris Trotter, Gordon McLauchlan, John Bishop) and the unspeakable (David Farrar, Stephen Franks, Jordan Williams). For all their faults, however, all of the above act and speak as individuals. There is one exception to this pattern. One of the more unpleasant occasional features on the show is a grisly double act—Boag and Edwards. It seems to be scheduled at least once a fortnight, and the way things are going it may well end up as a show in its own right—an inane Kiwi version of the insufferable (now blessedly defunct) Hannity and Colmes on Fox News. Apparently Edwards (Colmes) has signed some sort of agreement with Boag (a crazier version of Hannity) never to contradict her when she says something cruel or mad. In fact, he will usually endorse what she says, albeit reluctantly.

    This afternoon, Boag (Hannity) was in a particularly nasty mood, and Edwards (Colmes) was—as ever—pathetically eager to please her. First of all, Boag indulged in an extended spray against that monster Kim Dotcom. “He’s fleeing justice in another jurisdiction!” she shrieks. Edwards eagerly, cravenly, agrees with her. The host, Jim Mora, just laughs.

    The informed and serious commentary continues….

    JIM MORA: Greenpeace has lost five million dollars after an ill advised gamble on the money markets. We assume our money is well spent when we give it to charity, don’t w—

    MICHELLE BOAG: [spluttering with indignation] Arrrrgggghhh! Greenpeace is not a CHARITY! It’s a multi-million dollar BUSINESS!

    This ill-tempered and ill-informed outburst is met with awkward silence from both Mora and Edwards.

    A little later, the creepy feeling that we are listening to a broadcast from the most benighted corner of LaLa Land is ratcheted up even more….

    BRIAN EDWARDS: John Banks is by all accounts a W-W-W-WONDERFUL parent! I heard him speak at a breakfast one day about the experience of parenting, and he was INSPIRATIONAL!

    While Edwards specialises in such nonsensical paeans, Boag has far less of the milk of human kindness in her. She never lets up with her sour, simplistic, reactionary comments. For all those lily-livered experts—police, social workers, educators—who have commented on last week’s stabbing in Henderson, she has nothing but contempt….

    MICHELLE BOAG: [snarling] People use poverty as an excuse!

    After the news, pleasant music plays for half a minute or so….

    MORA: That’s a band called The Samoans. They’re a Welsh band, full of skinny white guys. ….[pause] Is that all right?

    Of course there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s not even a serious question. But it’s worth a few minutes of air time. After all, why talk about something important when you can use up five minutes pretending to be concerned about a triviality? To help him out with this grave question, his producers have gone and got one of the country’s most prominent Samoans, Oscar Kightley to come on the programme. Of course, like any sensible person, Kightley feels it’s a non-issue and tells him exactly that….

    MORA: So you think it’s all right? It’s a kind of homage.”
    OSCAR KIGHTLEY: The only problem I have is that they could pronounce the word “Samoans” a little better. But no, I can see nothing wrong with what they’re doing.
    MORA: Oscar Kightley, thank you.
    BRIAN EDWARDS: [speaking slowly, to convey great seriousness] The great joy of Oscar is that he doesn’t take himself too seriously. That’s very important.
    MORA: Indeed.
    MICHELLE BOAG: Indeed.

    With nothing achieved so far, it’s time for the “Soapbox” segment, where the Panelists tell us what they’ve been thinking about. Perhaps they’ve been thinking long and hard about something important?….

    BRIAN EDWARDS: Something I’m a bit grumpy about is people saying that things on the net have “gone viral”. Another thing I’m grumpy about is how everyone that has appeared on television is a “star”. ….[He raves on about that outrage for a minute or so]…. And finally my old gripe: women field reporters in New Zealand are AWFUL! Why do they have to talk through their noses like that? [Here he imitates a high-pitched whining female] It’s AWFUL, it’s AWFUL to listen to! It’s just got to do with the unpleasantness of the sound. It’s really awful! You just sit in front of your screen and cringe. ….[continues ranting for considerable time]….

    MORA: All right. Michelle Boag, what’s been on YOUR mind?

    BOAG: Well I’m fairly grumpy too. I’m grumpy about the NZEI being soooooo narrow-minded as to not consider the most popular education initiative of recent years. You know, I think it’s time we put the kids first. The ideological purity of these groups who are only concerned about their own interests….

    To close off the programme, Jim seeks comment from the Gruesome Twosome about the boy in Hastings who is battling his school about being able to wear long hair. Both of them are united in their condemnation of the boy and his dad. Boag quotes the leading thinker Mike Hosking, who saw fit to castigate the boy on television last night. Edwards endorses everything his good friend says, and proffers this choice piece of advice to the boy’s father: “He needs to get a LIFE!” Edwards is just warming to his task when the end-of-show music mercifully begins…..

    MORA: We’re out of time. Michelle Boag, thank YOU.
    MICHELLE BOAG: Thank you!
    MORA: Brian Edwards, thank you very much.
    BRIAN EDWARDS: Sorry to be grumpy.
    BOAG: Not at all!

    I sent the following email to Jim Mora, pointing out the vapidity of his nasty guest…

    Michelle Boag’s rant
    Dear Jim,

    In her rant against Kim Dotcom, Michelle Boag confused (perhaps willfully confused) justice with vengeance and black propaganda.

    Kim Dotcom has served his time in Germany; the current allegations against him are just that: allegations, and all unproven.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • i thought the major disconnect-moment from boag came when she fulminated against the owen glenn report..saying we have too many reports on this..

      ..and that it ‘is time we did something to fix it’..

      ..my brief elation at the speck of sense/call for action from this ranter..

      ..quickly fell back when i realised that if you told boag that ‘doing something about it’..may have to mean she pays a bit more in taxes..

      ..well then you would have to stand well back..as she screamed her outrage at that idea..

    • Tracey 28.2

      what a shame boag takes herself too seriously sucking in others to do so too

    • vto 28.3

      ha ha, well done morrisey…

      two nutty self-justifying baby boomers slowly going ga ga over the years …. they are a comedy show indeed ….

      do people like them get a vote at the election?

    • Marksman33 28.4

      Fantastic Morrissey I had to stop at my elderly fathers place to have a rant about this piece of shit panel today.It makes me fucking sick to listen to these two arrogant creatures putting the boot in.I expect it from Boag ( the imp) but Edwards infuriates me, he is actually delusional in thinking he is a lefty, he may have been once upon a time but that was many decades ago, now he is nothing but minor celeb blood sucker, part of the NZ ruling class who thinks he knows whats best for us great unwashed.He is just another member of that group of quislings ( Pagani, M Williams,et al ) that need to be expunged from any relevance to the left, the sooner the better as far as I’m concerned.With friends like them, who needs enemies.

    • geoff 28.5

      Hah! I heard these two a couple of weeks ago and yep… you nailed it.

    • millsy 28.6

      “Boag quotes the leading thinker Mike Hosking, who saw fit to castigate the boy on television last night. Edwards endorses everything his good friend says, and proffers this choice piece of advice to the boy’s father: “He needs to get a LIFE!” Edwards is just warming to his task when the end-of-show music mercifully begins…..”

      Unsuprising of Edwards to take the side of the school in this debate, given that he thinks it is perfectly OK to tell a 14 year old girl she looks like a slut. Yep, big man there, Dr Edward. No wonder we have a huge domestic violence problem in this country.

      As an observation, it seems thats schools are more worried about the length of a student’s hair (or skirt), or how to further intrude on their privacy, than whether they should be providing a safe environment for their students (ie protecting pupils from being bullied).

    • North 28.7

      Edwards is a fucked old fulla who’s still fumblingly wanking over a proud moment on ‘Gallery’ about 40 years ago. Boag the old bitch is still hoha that a High Court judge didn’t bow to her character evidence in support of Second-Bestie-After-Briany, Botox-Banksie.

      You see these people are so disgustingly entitled and when the world seems not to acknowledge that, they lose it. Fuck the both of them and that insufferable enabler Mensa Mora too for that matter. And regards to their carbon copy Bob Jones whom I’m sure together they go visit every coupla months. Imagine the poison falling from those six lips with their owners in their cups ?

      Does no one in this counrty take seriously the matter of past-use-by-date ?

  29. Harry Holland 29

    What the hell is this about???

    @helenkellyCTU
    If National wins the election, English says next budget will b most radical restructuring of govt spending in 50 years. #tellusyourplans

    8:28am · 17 Jun 2014 · Twitter for iPhone

    • they plan to go gangbusters in their third term..if they get it…

      ..that’s what that means..

    • millsy 29.2

      If this really does happen, then this would be really bad. 1 (or both) of two things will happen:

      1) A social confrontation rivalling 1951 and 1981 (NZ is due for one of these, they seem to happen every 30 years or so)

      2) Massive hardship across the board.

  30. adam 30

    A abc of the anarchist position.

    I will not be voting, and encouraging all members of the working class to do the same – as such the Tory scum who think they have a mandate in this unrepresentative democracy, should begin now to go to bed in worry. The anarchists claim all the disposed, disenfranchised, and down right depressed – not out of love or charity – but out of the need to prescribe to all reactionaries we know, your lying. You propaganda falls flat at the doors of nihilism – your spin is now a top falling over. Yes, Tory scum – the curtains are parting.

    And…

    How many of the so called liberal elites will work in the interest of the elites over working people? How many will vote to preserve there own fiefdoms? Why, they don’t fear us – we are meek, we will grovel and crawl like slaves to make the world, a little less harsh. All men and women were created equally. All men and women were born free. All men and women we born in comity and congruousness.

    To keep that alive I’m not going to go and vote for some slimy bugger who thinks they now have power to do as they please, and bugger the rest of us. As far as I can tell all political parties are full of self-serving bluggers who are at best, petty little lordlings. These freaks of nature should shake in their boots at night with every vote not cast. They should shiver in fear that if someone is willing not to vote, what else – will they not do. Take orders, be bullied, be treated like a god dam slave!

    That’s why I’m not going to vote. I’m not a slave, I’m a human being.

    [lprent: And what does that have to do with my post? Moved to OpenMike. You’ll be moved to oblivion if I catch you being a fuckwit doing a diversion troll and crapping on a post again just because you like the smell of your own dung. A two week ban for stupidity. ]

  31. Steve Reeves 31

    Great article…quite long, but illuminating….and VERY pertinent to many we see ruling us these days :(

    http://aeon.co/magazine/being-human/if-youre-surrounded-by-idiots-guess-whos-the-jerk/

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