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Open mike 17/07/2012

Written By: - Date published: 12:03 am, July 17th, 2012 - 126 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

126 comments on “Open mike 17/07/2012”

  1. r0b 1

    Pete George causes a lot of discussion in comments. Moderators have been considering it, there’s no strong consensus on what to do.

    There’s no doubt that Pete’s debating “tactics” (for want of a better word) are infuriating to many and generally disruptive. There’s no doubt that he uses The Standard for link whoring (sorry – never liked that phrase). But in most cases he stays on the right side of the Policy, so a permanent ban seems unwarranted.

    At this point Pete we’ve decided on a week-long ban for your behaviour yesterday (the deliberate misrepresentation of another commenter was way out of line). As for the linking, lprent has his own ideas about that…

    • deuto 1.1

      Thanks for that, R0b. I for one understand and respect the position and decisions of the moderators.

      I notice that two links to PG’s own website have now appeared in the comments section in the right hand column. Are these in line with the moderators’ decision?

      • r0b 1.1.1

        Those are comments that Pete has made today. Because he’s on the ban list the comments themselves go to the spam queue, but that link in the comments pane does still appear.

        • RedLogix 1.1.1.1

          I’m wishing now I had not been so busy elsewhere and had come back to hose things down sooner.

          To his credit PG has responded sensibly to my own response here.

          I could add in my defense that my original statement … the one that started the whole shitstorm … is curiously enough, pretty much modelled on an very similar one that no-one other than Maanu Paul himself ran on me about 20 years ago.

          • deuto 1.1.1.1.1

            IMO I don’t think you should in any way feel bad or regretful about your original comment or the resultant ‘dialogue’. Most of us read the original in the manner you intended. In fact, I believe that the situation has had a good side, in allowing people to express their views on what has been happening and to discuss ways of handling it in a ‘community’ type of way – in effect, a form of detoxing and community-building!

            It may have also been a warning to others who seek to undermine here….

            PS – I have been impressed with Maanu Paul and his forthrightness in the last few days – and can well imagine him running the line you mentioned.

    • Enough is Enough 1.2

      For those of us who do not have the power of moderation there is an easy way to silence PG. Ignore him. It is very difficult for him to debate with silence.

      You can almost guarantee that following every PG comment is a Savage ‘Petey’ response. And from there the game begins for him. In my mind the two of them are as bad as each other. Savage the rest of your comments are insightful but your Petey ones are infuriating.

      Don’t feed the Troll

      • higherstandard 1.2.1

        Apart from the second to last sentence you’re spot on.

      • Te Reo Putake 1.2.2

        Yep, that was pretty much the consensus toward the end of yesterday. Either just ignore the bore or post a patronising smiley face.
         
        I think the whole debate has been excellent and it echoes the dilemma union members have when there is one hold out who won’t join and insists on the boss passing on the results of union bargaining to him. It’s best to simply ignore the bludger and let the silence be the rebuke.

      • weka 1.2.3

        DNFTT only works if everyone does it (or most people most of the time). I will be interested to see if those how are now on record as not replying to PG are able to manage that once he is back ;-)

  2. L'Heure 2

    Quiz: What has Clare Curran, Jacinda Ardern, Grant Robertson and David Shearer have in common?

    They work hard to make sure the Labour Party rank and file members do not upset the cosy little world they have come to enjoy in Parliament. They believe they know better than you, when it comes to selecting a leader for the whole party, your party.
    You see, they put Shearer in power to maintain the status quo. Shearer is the new Goff. Jacinda, Clare and Grant are in the golden circle now and they are not going to let the great unwashed upset the apple-cart. And they have a great plan (ok, ok Pagani has). Just don’t irritate people who voted National last two times and watch them flock in droves to Labour in 2014!

    Marvellous! Four geniuses! And the nice NZ Council did what they were told.

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    • Ad 2.1

      Crikey that’s harsh. I’m not even sure yet what is changing, or what is staying the same. I am guessing you have seen the remits. Would love to be enlightened.

      Is there such a thing as a plan in Labour, I mean for things other than succession?

      Probably I would care less about who was leader or even by what means if I could see a plan of where Labour and the Greens could go together (other than wait for National to fail).

      • Bored 2.1.1

        As an ex LEC chair (we all walked because Roger stayed) I have long held the deepest suspicion of “party central”. As the song goes

        “The peoples flags a shade of pink,
        Its not as red as you might think”.

        Hence we are burdened forever by the likes of Shearer and Parker. careerist, not boat rockers. Status quo, but capable of managing a broken system better, (it will remain broken however because they are all straight jacketed into the present paradigm).

        • Peter 2.1.1.1

          An an ex LRC chair for three years, Policy Council and committee member, along with founding a youth branch (which was eventually destroyed by a party-central candidate’s actions), I would concur with those remarks.

          The party desperately needs a circuit-breaker to cut off these elements of caucus.

    • Carol 2.2

      L’Heure, I don’t think you’ve posted here before. Where are you getting your evidence from?

      Are you a Labour Party member?

      • Logie97 2.2.1

        …curious use of “your” rather than “our” ne c’est pas?

      • Te Reo Putake 2.2.2

        A member of the C/T branch of the party, Carol. Sames as yesterday’s visitors. National must be fair crapping themselves if they’ve sunk this low.

        • Armchair Critic 2.2.2.1

          CT as in Concern Troll, or Crosby Textor?

        • Bill 2.2.2.2

          Can’t see what would have brought that accusation on TRP. Is any comment on the currently insipid Labour Party a de-facto comment of a troll or a spin line?

          I mean, that says a lot about any appetite (or lack thereof) for any discussion on the Labour Party, it’s pathetic presence or any (reasonable imo) suspicion that it’s decended to the level whereby internal dynamics that are akin to navel staring and cock comparing has consumed the party as the ‘old guard’ manouvere to hang on to, well…basically pay cheques that flow from ‘their turf’.

          • Bored 2.2.2.2.1

            the ‘old guard’ manouvere to hang on to, well…basically pay cheques that flow from ‘their turf’. so true Bill, sort of “DunneLites”.

          • McFlock 2.2.2.2.2

            I think of it like this:
                
            We’re in a bar at a regular drinks/bullshit session. Quite a few diverse folk around, lots of different opinions.
            A guy comes in who nobody’s ever seen before. He loudly yells some unimaginative lines, thus causing a bar fight. He is never seen again.
            A while later, the same thing happens with a different guy, but similar lines. And so on.
               
            After a few iterations, the random folk start trying harder to cause a bar fight. Their expressions evolve, become more blunt, but all have the same objective. Some of them let slip that they are regulars or even staff at another bar, or are seen there by some of the regulars. It’s going around town that your own bar is rough and prone to fights.
                   
            After a while, it becomes pretty obvious that someone’s just trying to give your bar a bad reputation, and that randoms coming in and calling your mother a whore are usually part of that plan. And if they’re not, they sure as hell aren’t trying to make a serious comment or have a meaningful dicussion.
             

    • just saying 2.3

      And the nice NZ Council did what they were told…

      Do you know what has been decided in regard to party membership input?
      I’d be interested to know, but I’m not convinced your comment is anything more than guesswork.

      • mickysavage 2.3.1

        Papers were emailed to members last night.  There are proposed constitutional changes which are to be considered at the Conference in November.

        EDIT: I have this feeling of deja vu …

        • Olwyn 2.3.1.1

          I am a member, but have not yet received an email about it.

          • mickysavage 2.3.1.1.1

            Apologies Olwyn.  It was emailed to secretaries of constituent bodies rather than members.  If you check with your branch secretary they should be able to let you have a copy.

            • Olwyn 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Thanks Mickey. I dare say it will be forwarded in due course. If not I will get in touch with the branch.

      • mickysavage 2.3.2

        Papers were emailed to members last night.  There are proposed constitutional changes which are to be considered at the Conference in November.

  3. National – Maori Party relations are teetering.

    John Key has admitted that the MRP share float may be delayed because of Maori’s legal challenge over water. 

    The Herald reports that Key acknowledged in 2009 that Maori had “specific rights and interests” in fresh water in a 2009 letter to iwi leaders.

    And Manu Paul, co leader of the Maori Council has urged the Maori Party to walk away from the coalition while its mana is intact.  On radio he used the word “kupapa” meaning collaborator, in describing those who continued to support the Government.  He said if they had mana they would walk.  Strong words …

    • ad 3.1

      Oddly I think the main party to worry about now is New Zealand First.

      The intersecting media themes of “Maori” and “Treaty” and “Save our assets” is custom built for Winston Peters. I could easily see him sustaining sufficient base to be an alternative support partner to National in 2014. Nowhere near as strong as the Greens, but doesn’t yet have to be.

      This theme intersection will be amplified as Key goes for the High Court, and then has to make a call to either go for Court of Appeal, and negotiating in parallel for a share allocation. Or alternatively put fresh legislation into the house stripping Maori of any water claim.

      I think Key will go for negotiate with a High Court backup, because he will see it taking away much of the asset sale bogey and waking people up to how much this is just about everyone’s financial self-interest. He will then be ablet o complete the first listing.

      That will largely strip Labour of its’ most important policy advantage: being anti-asset sales.

      The public bitterness a pro-Maori share of the IPO engenders will again play into Winston’s hands. Maori without being Maori Party, pro-seniors, pro-assets, pro-talkback sympathy. And I think by December tracking to 8%.

      • mike e 3.1.1

        ADd peters is anti asset sales so ditching that policy would leave him out in the cold again as a lot of his support came from disaffected labour supporters wanting him in parliament to give national a run for their money but alas Peters has lost his Mojo and can’t be found.

        • ad 3.1.1.1

          Not that I would try to fathom Peters’ murky mind but if I did I would join the Government, and negotiate that no further asset sales would occur. Key could say “I floated one, Maori are being settled with, and I no longer need further sales to achieve financial stability”.

          The point is merely that we should not presume that Key has no options, and could still win in 2014. Even if it is harder.

          • Fortran 3.1.1.1.1

            ad

            Nobody could fathom Winston’s mind – not even himself.
            Unless it is a publicity stunt to get into the media periodically (and the MSM love him – he would not have got back into Parliament without their help).

            • Populuxe1 3.1.1.1.1.1

              If the MSM love him, why do they only report on anything he says that might be framed as controversial, rather than, say, reporting on NZF policy?
              NZF is anti asset-sales and it will be a cold day in hell before we go anywhere near National

    • Uturn 3.2

      Governments in NZ, from the point they could comprehend the rough idea, have been actively negligent in their response to the necessary elevation of indigenous identity here. It is necessary though, to point out one thing in this latest act of a cold war by our Prime Minister and his supporters. As much as I despise it’s modern popular form, Pakeha culture allows a point of contact, without conflict, for whatever other peoples it meets.

      Put aside the question of racism and insult over John Key’s comments that he did not have to listen to a tribunal ruling, before it happened, and you find that he is not acting under Pakeha culture.

      John Key does not have mandate, or right, to misrepresent Pakeha culture in such coarse, rude, ungracious, disrespectful to office, void of diplomatic, etiquette.

      For a moment, place aside who he has insulted and realise he has also insulted the honor of Pakeha people and their culture. Who is this man? What cultural protocol is he using? He has insulted the people he represents, the office of the Prime Minister and since we are still part of the Commonwealth, the office of Governor General and by association, the Queen Herself. What he has done can only be matched in Pakeha culture, to the deeds of a victorious General during talks for unconditional surrender. No such conditions exist. Under Pakeha culture, under Commonwealth diplomatic etiquette, he should be replaced immediately. This will not happen, but that is not the point.

      To those watching, with justifiable outrage at a rude and culture-less man: do not call your own people Kupapa over this. If your mainstream political party leaves government, it should be for the right reasons; not under pressure of shame, by associating with a corrupt system, the only official system of participation; in which there is a worthy history. The value of a certain kind of leader should be appreciated. How can anyone attempting to subdue the pigs stay clean while in the sty? It would be unfair to condemn them for doing their job.

      Maori and Pakeha relationship will outlive – and lives outside – one particular individual or regime. Almost one million people did not vote in the last election. This also does not include people who are old enough to be forming the views that will shape the future, but who are still too young to vote. Realise that the acts of an economic theory, are not the rules of culture for Pakeha at large – however many of us have lost the ability to recognise the difference. We have no rule that allows insult to host or guest. We know that money does not make right. We know how, when and why to apologise. What you are seeing illustrated in this latest conflict is pure greed and hubris, and those are human traits. Consider that in calling your own people useless, traitors or collaborators, you are allowing the poison of greed to do its full damage.

      • Bored 3.2.1

        Your last paragraph identifies the real culprit: the culture of greed that has its own theological justification (the words of St Ayn, Friedman etc). I fear that the likes of Key were brought up and educated in the narrow amorality of this thinking: worse I suspect that culture does not come into it. There are Maori. Pakeha, Chinese, Eskimos etc who are also afflicted with the same materialist malady. For example what will it take to make Turia walk from the baubles of office?

        • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1

          Key’s culture is the bankster culture. Manipulative, presumptive and parasitic.

          Notice how over the last few years, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of banking scandals and fraud keep getting announced?

          These aren’t exceptional instances in this vampire squid industry. Its the norm.

          • deuto 3.2.1.1.1

            Excellent post, Uturn. In his approach to this whole issue, Key certainly does not represent me as a NZ pakeha, and IMO continues to exhibit a total lack of regard, respect and/or knowledge for NZ’s unique Treaty of Waitangi relationship.

            I agree, CV, that Key exhibits a banker/dealer culture and is continuing to do so, despite the reactions to his approach over the last week, as evident in this Stuff article this morning:

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7290658/Key-Maori-should-negotiate-with-Government

            Prime Minister John Key says negotiating directly with the Government is a ”much more logical and sensible way” for Maori to resolve water rights issues than through the Waitangi Tribunal.

            Maori had achieved good outcomes over the Waikato River, Taniwha Springs in Rotorua and more recently at Tahuna, he said.

            ”The Government’s view is that is the right process, it’s been the most successful.” …

            Key today said much of what had been raised at the Tribunal hearing had already been dealt with or was in the process of being dealt with by the Government.

            ”There is a much more logical and sensible way of dealing with that,” he told TV3’s Firstline programme.

            ”We don’t agree there is ownership rights in water and we never have.” …

            The Maori Council only represented one group within Maoridom, Key said.

            ”It’s not necessarily the view shared by many other groups within Maoridom.”

            In other words, divide to undermine the existing Treaty issue process, and I’ll cut you a deal if you deal with me directly.

            He certainly does not know when to stop digging.

        • Uturn 3.2.1.2

          Last night Annette Sykes suggested the same thing, re: baubles and the Maori Party. She has respect in her circles and I don’t challenge that, but I disagree. This particular conflict is not about Turia or anyone associated with maori parliamentarians. If there are maori issues with the Maori Party, that’s none of my business. The MP can vote as they see fit on any particular issue, with responsiblity to whoever voted for them, or whoever they claim to represent. That’s as fair as our system gets.

          The self interest of certain people to see the Nats go down at any cost or the Maori Party go down at cost to maori justifiable by hastening the demise of the Nat government, is also an act against the partnership between maori and pakeha. What this means is that certain pakeha are willing, through the excuse of combatting the applied greed of John Key and friends, to have maori hacking off another historical limb of their own, while we look on and wait for the fall out to settle – fall out, we know, that will favour pakeha. Then our favorite pakeha system can get back to enforcing more destructive attitudes on maori through legislation and leave them not only with a mainstream link to control in their affairs in tatters, but further animosity between ranks within their own world.

          This is unacceptable, and if done consciously, worse than John Key’s openly demonstrated efforts. Maori are proud of their attempts to engage the, so far, reluctant and unengageable. Young people being groomed for leadership positions in the maori world look up to the examples of several historic maori parliamentary leaders. Regardless of philosophical reasoning, to consciously attack that link, would be dishonorable and despicable by pakeha standards. It is not Pakeha’s place.

          That is the evil of applied greed. The Maori Party, per see, is not the target. Maori claims supporting a maori world view are not the target. How can they be? They have remained unchanged since forever. It is Key and his aggressive bullying incompetent supporters who are the target – by their own acts. That is where the pakeha attention must go, not on (sometimes inadvertently) manipulating or profiting from the the damage they cause.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    “…At this point Pete we’ve decided on a week-long ban…”

    Hallelujah! I refuse to bother even engaging with him. It became very clear very quickly to me that he was an old man with to much time on his hands. Once upon a time he would have written endless tedious letters to the ODT on all manner of subjects but primarily about how right he is all the time. Unlike today, when such people can infest multiple blogs across the internet for only a modest outlay of money, the only victims of this habit would have been the long-suffering readers of Dunedin newspapers, until such time as the ODT letters editor would have finally banned him. Probably then some sort of endless litigation would have been embarked upon, as a substitute for letter writing.

    Eventually such old fellows die, usually mid-court action, and after a few years every ones opinion softens and people start to fondly recall the eccentric old duffer who wrote incessant letters to the editor and had the temerity to sue the ODT.

    • AnnaLiviaPlurabella 4.1

      +1 Sanctuary. If we all ignore him then we can get on with the real business of this Blog. That, in my view, is the pushing , teasing, challenging of policies and strategies that improve the lot of the people of new Zealand .

    • weka 4.2

      the only victims of this habit would have been the long-suffering readers of Dunedin newspapers, until such time as the ODT letters editor would have finally banned him.
       

      Actually no, editors of newspapers are under no obligation to publish letters and regularly choose not to for all sorts of reasons. Someone writing letters to the editor all the time has no guarantee of them being published, and editors are not going to overload their letters space with someone spamming them.
      There is no reason why TS couldn’t also exercise such discretion (except maybe it would be alot of work for TS admin/moderators).

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

        There is no reason why TS couldn’t also exercise such discretion (except maybe it would be alot of work for TS admin/moderators).

        Just programme the system to accept posts from PG on even numbered dates of the month.

        Or give him an automated curfew. None after midday until 8am the next day.

    • Uturn 5.1

      The only other time I have heard this song was as a theme to a saturday morning children’s programme of the same vintage.

  5. Gareth 6

    I’ve been accused of taking this out of context:

    “If gareth or anyone else thinks they’re hard enough they can meet me outside.”

    Colonial Viper said “I’m really very dubious ”

    So I’ll quote a response to my criticism (I am sickened) of that in full so it can be judged in it’s entirety:
    Gareth, that is the most disgusting example of one way racism I have ever seen

    I think there is growing concern about what appears to be one way reverse racism.
    I’ve been confronting them at The Standard and seem to have initiated an uprising against me. They don’t like being challenged. They’ve been trying to hound any challenging out of there, and this time made a concerted effort.

    I think we should reafirm to work positively a bit more and work together a bit more (rather than wallowing in bitch and moan) then things will work better.Here’s a challenge to step back and consider Positive Politics, what can be done better in political blogs and in parliament.
    I won’t respond or comment in Open Mic today – that may be a positive for some. If there’s anything positive here today I’ll collate and summarise.

    Suggestions, pledges, whatever – people here claim The Standard is much better than Kiwiblog, show that it is at least as good. Get positive.

    And as information grows I will firm up a position – if it’s important enough for me to do that. But it is rarely a fixed position, new information or circumstances can adjust it, a major revelation or time can lead to a major change of position.

    • Te Reo Putake 6.1

      Nothing to worry about, Gareth, CV (and felix). Just a bit of humour that appears to have been misundertood. I rather enjoyed the exchange; it was the funniest extended satire I think I’ve ever seen here.

      • Gareth 6.1.1

        No offence or misunderstanding I enjoyed it as well, It’s hilarious searching back some of Petes posts everything above is pretty much word for word cut n paste, That last paragraph has to be my favourite Pete quote of all time. Pretty much sums up both Pete’s ( George & Dunne)beautifully….

  6. captain hook 7

    yeah I like a bit of satay too every now and again.

  7. John Connor 8

    Peak water
    I-Pad in preschool-machine wedge
    “little victorians” pursuing self-seeking bias
    content?
    North American APA stories, particularly machine analogy story
    essential ideas being filed in machine
    not
    Connecting in brain

    Apple-fruit machine

    hope slave
    Master act-not act

    NAct intermittent reinforcement (generally effective for behav maintenance and shaping) fuels intoxication of people in plunge, Anticipation, of saviour.

    but no fuhrer, fuhrer not necessary anymore

    all people can “read” history

    Occams razor

    ratio of scientist/priest tribute spent on description and tradition?

    E.O Wilson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#God_and_religion
    “bottle-neck of time”

    “Big Economics always trumps big POLITICS
    -Wolfson

    fly capital, fly

    RT white Russian in information war. LIGHT

    Auckland not “understandable” yet
    meaning?
    rosetta stone?

    lifestyle creep
    lifestyle settle

    joyce built house on sand
    liqui-faction
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_Fetish
    Master of growth
    slave to decay

    Adapt as
    remainder
    of Dinosaurs shed golden scales

    Cerebral cortex evolved effectively to CHEAT and detect CHEATING
    DETECTION superior to deception

    Art
    ( )

    Troll seeks Master

    What is reclaimed from machine
    Telegram via machine
    round sphere
    machine connected

    bot to gather money
    Telegram to disperse money

    good faith ala Jean-Paul
    not
    taught to commerce
    -“good Bargain”

    badfaithbadfaithbadfaithbadfaithbadfaith

    participatory distant
    listening close

    shelter, warmth, medicine
    people might see 100 years
    not take madicine

    cell Home Hive COLLECTive

    • Uturn 8.1

      In bad faith I buy what is necessary;
      Using that which no one can afford;
      To hide in plain view,
      From those who are dangerous.

      Outside myself, I meet the authentic
      Who accepts cowardice.

      DEMOTIC
      Pop culture
      As Greece falls.

      Incapable of objectivity,
      grasping only my beliefs, I’m two parts blind.
      Mistaking the past for hope.
      The only moment of worth, in the error.

    • thatguynz 8.2

      Erm…. Huh?

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1

        It seems to me to be a description of society and how it works. The money go round that enriches the few while dis-empowering and impoverishing everyone else.

        • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1

          An actual money go-round wouldn’t be this bad. This is the money going around society briefly, then being trapped and hoarded by the elite who sit on it, or sit on assets bought with it.

  8. Urban Rascal 9

    So was interesting watching it all unfold yesterday, already todays open mic seems alot more informative. Last night I was sent a link to a NZ design company “String Theory” for an ad the did for Good Books international. Cool Hunter S Thompson styled ad, bnut while there I saw this ten minute video they have done for Cunliffe on the Economy. Can’t find it anywhere on youtube etc but it’s brilliant, just click the picture and it should play. I really wanted to share it with a few friends but it’s nowhere to be found besides here:

    http://www.stringtheory.me/index.html#/another-dimension

    Maybe it’s something coming out soon and I got a sneak peak… But none the less I thought that it would be popular with some of you.

    • Ad 9.1

      Looks like something form the 2008 election that was never used – he’s got a beard now.

      This is pretty good stuff though, and well found.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      Been up on youtube for months and, yes, it was popular.

    • Urban Rascal 9.3

      I figured it was from the election, couldn’t find it on Youtube though.
      I wish they ran these styled and informative ads on policy more often.

  9. Te Reo Putake 10

    Just having a read of the proposed changes to the LP constitution, policy development, list selection and party leadership. Excellent stuff and it gives the lie to the C/T and leftist trolling that has been going on here for the last couple of days. Particularly the rubbish about caucus refusing to listen to the membership.
     
    No, I’m not going to let the cat out of the bag, but, as Micky notes above, members should contact their branch sec’s in the first instance. Your next branch meeting is going to be an exercise in democracy and creative thinking! Members, branches and LEC’s are actively encouraged to have their say in this set of changes and have no doubt, this is a real step forward in the evolution of our great party.

    • Te Reo Putake 10.1

      Righto, the feline has exited the enclosure. The details of the review process and proposals are up on the LP website.
       
      Highlights are a slimmer moderating committee, list rankings in bands (ie top 5, next 5 etc.), a move to have branches and LEC’s more closely linked (the Palmy model?) and an increased say from the rank and file in the selection of the Parliamentary leader. That is proposed to be 40% members, 20% affiliates, 40% caucus.

  10. captain hook 12

    the funny thing is if you disagree with whalesh*t or fatboy farr*r then you are kicked off their blogs but here you can mostly say what you like.
    So who is the real standard bearer of freedom and truth?
    obviously not the wing nuts of the right who only want obedience and slavish adherence to their desires to beat down the people who actually do the real work in this society.

  11. John Connor 13

    parley-a-ment today
    not kicked off, Left

    redaction Complete

    send it anywhere you want in the universe, maybe “right” maybe “wrong”
    but new boss not same as old boss

    learning Revolution

    or

    the resurrection
    (on forgiveness, memory and forgetting)

    dedicated and in memoriam to people who Chose to love.

    Master of Being
    slave to fate

    Master of destiny
    slave to His-tory

    Master of faith
    slave to priest

    Master of wisdom
    slave to truth

    Master of Comedy
    slave to Tragedy

    Master of emotion
    slave to thoughts

    Master of thoughts
    slave to stories

    Master of stories
    slave to telling

    Master of fear
    slave to guilt

    Master of happiness
    slave to content

    Master of sadness
    slave to loss

    Master of awareness
    slave to denial

    Master of surprise
    slave to excitement

    Master of anger
    slave to outrage

    Master of interest
    slave to boredom

    Master of disgust
    slave to contempt

    Master of anticipation
    slave to obsession

    Master of security
    slave to exchange

    Master of shelter
    slave to lender

    Master of wealth
    slave to debt

    Master of diet
    slave to process sugar,fat

    Master of warmth
    slave to generator

    Master of apparel
    slave to sweatshop

    Master of gold
    slave to mine

    Master of activity
    slave to compulsion

    Master of aggression
    slave to hostility

    Master of curiosity
    slave to addiction

    Master of achievement
    slave to recognition

    Master of affiliation
    slave to status

    Master of autonomy
    slave to loneliness

    Master of solitude
    slave to crowd

    Master of nurturance
    slave to control

    Master of exhibition
    slave to fame

    Master of order
    slave to geometry

    Master of Dominance
    slave to Authority

    Master of play
    slave to rule

    Master of universe
    slave to electron

    Master of nature
    slave to extinction

    Master of energy
    slave to entropy

    Master of growth
    slave to decay

    Master of water
    slave to thirst

    Master of breath
    slave to lungs

    Master of land
    slave to fence

    Master of home
    slave to ancestors

    Master of time
    slave to clock

    Master of cycle
    slave to routine

    Master of motion
    slave to road

    Master of road
    slave to car

    Master of car
    slave to oil

    Master of learning
    slave to book

    Master of exploration
    slave to teacher

    Master of labour
    slave to contract

    Master of contract
    slave to government

    Master of creativity
    slave to medium

    Master of medium
    slave to media

    Master of Profession
    slave to form

    Master of role
    slave to economy

    Master of economy
    slave to wind

    Master of sex-tant
    slave to galley

    Master of consumption
    slave to market

    Master of chance
    slave to dice

    Master of insight
    slave to drug

    Master of innovation
    slave to tradition

    Master of tool
    slave to machine

    Master of machine
    slave to ghost

    slave pick crop
    slave built road
    slave carry water
    slave chop wood
    slave mine rock
    slave built monument
    slave shepherd flock
    slave built temple
    slave guard altar
    slave bear tribute
    slave rear children
    slave ferry old

    slave write programme
    slave connect globe
    slave attack enemy

    slave of future
    slave of present
    slave of past

    slave elect master
    slave buried beneath master

    Master of looking
    slave to belief

    Master of power
    slave to power

    Master of mask
    slave to deception

    Master of instinct
    slave to drive

    Master of game
    slave to run

    Master of Ego
    Slave to Self

    Master of death
    slave to life

    Master of change
    slave to despair

    Master of prophecy

    slave to before
    slave to darkness

    master sage
    slave to art

    amor fati

    Be well

    John

    (master of compassion, slave to charity: master of moderation, slave to excess: master of humility,
    Slave to hubris)

    thankyou to Peter Exeter and David Sharp

    TEACHERS

    • Half Crown Millionare 13.1

      John with respect, after the fourth or fifth line I started to get bored and I thought, what the fuck is he on about. Is this generation X or Y speak, so us down to earth “oldies” cannot comprehend it? It looks very academic and very intelligent to me. but frankly whatever the point you are trying to make has gone completely over my head and I suspect quite a few others as well. Do me a favour pal, in future if you have an opinion to tell, do it in simple terms so a thicky like me may comprehend what the fuck you are on about.

      • muzza 13.1.1

        HCM – Here is a thought to help get out of the hole you have fallen into , as others here seem to also.

        Let people post how they want, or like to, if you don’t or can’t comprehend it, then try asking for clarification, as opposed to asking for the writer to change his/her style…

  12. Treetop 14

    On Marae Investigates on Sunday, Hone said that whanau Ora has received 13.4 million and that the Maori Party asked for 134 million. The Maori Party looks as though they usually end up with one tenth of what they ask for.

    I am finding that the biggest diversion from the day to day running of the country is the issue over water:
    Who owns it?
    Who manages it?
    What Maori interest is?

    The Glenn Family Foundation has announced a 80 million dollar package to stem family violence and abuse, with children at the top of the pyramid. 8 million dollars was pledged today with a pilot programme in Otara. I expect that demand is going to exceed supply. I am going to watch the gains which the Glenn Family Foundation make in regard to child poverty, child abuse and violence in the home.

    I also read today that ACC is dragging the ball and chain when it comes to 11 recommendations concerning sensitive claims. The other recommendation 16 counselling sessions has strings attached.

    This has got to be the WORSE government on record for child poverty, child abuse, violence in the home and not supporting ACC sensitive claimants.

    • Treetop 14.1

      ACC making little progress on sensitive claims – report
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820174

      80 million to tackle family violence
      http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/owen-glenn-commits-80-million-tackle-family-violence-4973756

      “National embrassment” according to Glenn re child abuse and that he will pay 10 – 15 million for a commission into child abuse; highlighted is child fatality if the government will not.

      Over 200 million for consultants to build roads and nothing for a commission into the death and serious injury of children, I regard this as a national embrassment.

      • Treetop 14.1.1

        embarrassment is the correct spelling

      • McFlock 14.1.2

        Um – govt already has the Child & Youth Mortality Review Committee, as well as the Childrens’ Commissioner, and a couple of others as I vaguely recall. Not sure about “serious injury” as such, offhand. In addition to the coronial process, of course.
             
        I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but it’s not like ‘nothing’ is being done at the moment. 

        • Treetop 14.1.2.1

          Thank you for supplying the links, I was not aware of the Child & Youth Mortality Review Committee and I will read up on them. I am interested in the funding they get.

          14.1 paragraph 4.
          “Nothing” is a broad word, inadequate funding to deal with the issue, (death and serious injury of children involved in abuse and violence in the home) is not seen as a priority compared to road consultants.

          I saw on stuff.co.nz today that adults who have a sensitive claim pertaining to childhood are really being let down by ACC. This is the consequence of children being sexually and physically harmed and EVERYTHING possible has to be done to prevent the criminal damage done to vulnerable children.

  13. I got a letter from John Key in the mail today (actually addressed to my wife and myself) asking me what I thought was important about the budget. Anyone else get one? 

    • higherstandard 15.1

      Yep, went the same way as all political/council mailers – into the recycling bin.

      • felix 15.1.1

        I’ve been thinking about cutting a slot in my recycling bin and keeping it at the top of the driveway.

      • Ad 15.1.2

        We wrote back saying we were strong National supporters, but hated asset sales. Just to screw with them a little.

        • QoT 15.1.2.1

          I am SO DOING THAT.

          • Armchair Critic 15.1.2.1.1

            I’ve already done it, letter to the local MP and all. Even got a politely worded reply, that basically said “piss off, we’re doing it anyway”.

            Write to the lowest ranked list MPs, I reckon. After all, they are first in line to look for a new job after the next election.

            • Colonial Viper 15.1.2.1.1.1

              Write to the National MPs with the skinniest margins. Just make sure that your postmark is local and you have a local postal address.

      • mike e 15.1.3

        why not return to sender i’m still waiting for my brighter future.

    • Vicky32 15.2

      I got a letter from John Key in the mail today

      No, and if I did, it would go straight to the recycling bin.. :)

    • Herodotus 15.3

      You were lucky we received one from our local nondescript MP (problem when you live in a protected rotten borough) as he was canvassing to what we thought the local area issues were, nothing asked re macro issues, I am now receiving emails !!!. It was extremely difficult to write anything of substance or constructive criticism, just enough space for 1 medium sized word or 2-3 small words !!!!
      Still better to be asked and have some input.

  14. captain hook 16

    I never got my letter.
    If they send one they better include some return postage so I can tell them exactly what is wrong with their excuse for a government.

  15. The unanimous decision of the “Dateline London panel last Sunday was that Private/Public ownership in the UK was a complete failure . Somebody should tell Key . It certainly would not be his doppelganger in the British Parliament who is slowly but surely destroying what is left of the Uk

  16. Campbell Larsen 18

    Sign the petition!

    “We call on the actual Editors of New Zealand’s Newspapers to bring an end to unattributed/ anonymous Editorials.”

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/An_end_to_unattributed_anonymous_Editorials_in_New_Zealands_Newspapers/?fWBudcb&pv=3

  17. Draco T Bastard 19

    This will interest some people. It’s a study into the collapse of present society.

    It is argued that in order to understand systemic risk in the globalised economy, account must betaken of how growing complexity (interconnectedness, interdependence and the speed of processes), the de-localisation of production and concentration within key pillars of the globalised economy have magnified global vulnerability and opened up the possibility of a rapid and large-scale collapse. ‘Collapse’ in this sense means the irreversible loss of socio-economic complexity which fundamentally transforms the nature of the economy. These crucial issues have not beenrecognised by policy-makers nor are they reflected in economic thinking or modelling.

    My emphasis.

  18. Vicky32 20

    Two items on 3 News that I wish to comment on – the ‘body-snatching’ case where James Takamore was taken from his Pakeha widow and children before he could be buried. Is this okay? Definitely not. Is the refusal of iwi to obey court rulings against them okay? IMO, definitely not.
    Iraena Asher. She was the victim of sexism, and a refusal to take seriously the fears of a woman with bipolar disorder. Why has it taken until now, for the authorities to investigate? That’s definitely not okay.

  19. bad12 21

    Note to Captain Panic Pants Re: getting the Slippery shyster to talk tough over asset sales, it’s a total FAILURE when the tough talking is via a Lithp…

  20. R 22

    Would filling out and sending back a response to the personally-addressed propaganda (sorry, survey) I received from John Key today use up some of their PS-funded-budget that they wouldn’t be able to use for other purposes, or has the money already been spent regardless of whether the response actually gets sent back? Can I put something heavy into the Freepost envelope to increase how much it costs them to ‘hear my views’?

  21. RedBaron 23

    Once upon a time I believe that a letter sent to an MP at parliament did not have to have a stamp.Democracy was free but I don’t know if that is still the case so maybe don’t muck around with that

    The best route back might be to your local branch of the Nat party or to the Nats party Headquarters address. This means it will go right to the heart of the organisation -stamps optional. When I receive unsolicited mail, stuff off public registers like MV licensing gets to me but rather than stew I go for a positive approach.
    I return the offending material with a typed note thanking them profusely for the supply of reading matter and say that I would like to return the compliment by supplying them with some reading matter that I find interesting. Of course I have lots of this weighing a ton so it needs a very large envelope and inevitably someone has given the cat it’s dinner on a really important piece that I had meant to save… so I send that too.

    Commercial stuff is usually best sent to a director – address courtesy of the coy’s office site …

    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      Once upon a time I believe that a letter sent to an MP at parliament did not have to have a stamp.

      Its still free.

    • R 23.2

      I like that idea, I might start keeping some of the guff I get in the post just for JK. Thanks :)

  22. Morrissey 24

    http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/iran/1683-how-britains-top-spy-is-beating-the-drums-for-war-on-iran

    How Britain’s top spy is beating the drums for war on Iran
    by Michael Higgs, Stop the War Coalition, 15 July 2012

    SIR JOHN Sawers has reared his head in public for the second time since being appointed head of MI6 in 2009. Last time it was to claim that Britain has “nothing whatsoever” to do with torture.

    We know this to be untrue following the revelations over MI6’s role in ‘renditioning’ Libyan dissidents to Tripoli to be tortured, as a favour to the intelligence services there. One might hope that, having learnt from his previous mistake, this latest speech would be rather more honest.

    It was not to be.

    In an article appearing in the the Daily Telegraph, the head of Britain’s overseas spy service is quoted at length from a speech recently given to senior civil servants. In it, he discussed Iran and its nuclear programme, claiming that covert operations by MI6 had prevented Iran from developing nuclear weapons by 2008, but that the Islamic Republic is now likely to become (and we are assured it is their goal) a “nuclear weapons state” by 2014.

    Coming shortly after a fresh round of sanctions, almost every line in the Telegraph article beats the drum for war. The screws are being tightened on Tehran and propaganda for an attack is in full swing.

    In keeping with Sawers’ previous public appearance as head of MI6, he boasts of the agency’s relevance and effectiveness in the field, perhaps still smarting from the humiliating episode in Libya where SAS and MI6 officers were captured by rebels.

    The grim reality of covert operations in Iran is acknowledged by the Telegraph, however, in what they refer to as the ‘apparent assassinations’ of multiple Iranian scientists. A reality check is in order here.

    Five nuclear scientists have been murdered in as many years in a campaign of state terror directed against Iran. One, Darioush Rezaeinejad, was shot dead outside his daughter’s nursery. Israel is the most likely suspect, possibly with the support of Britain or America. Certainly neither country has condemned the killings. Imagine for a moment the outrage if Iran had, in broad daylight, executed the director of a nuclear plant in the UK.

    John Sawers is a liar. We know he lied about MI6’s complicity in torture and we should be skeptical, to say the least, about his denial of complicity in the murder of Iranian civilians, particularly given the nod just made to the existence of covert action by MI6 in Iran.

    Whatever the details of the covert operations Sawers has run in Iran, his claim that they prevented the development of a “nuclear weapons state” there by 2008 is a revelation to say the least.
    If Iran was on the brink of possessing nuclear weapons in 2008, then I hope someone told the Americans. Because in 2007, a report by the CIA — surely the world’s largest and most well-connected spy network (no offense, Sir John) — stated “with high confidence” that “in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program” and that “Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons program as of mid-2007”.

    There is no convincing evidence it has since been restarted.

    The IAEA has confirmed in all of its reports that nuclear material has not been diverted from use in energy and medical research, where inspectors keep a close watch.

    Nonetheless, Sawers’ claims that Iran will be a “nuclear weapons state” in just two years time. Based on what? We are expected to take his word for it.

    Sawers’ phrase of choice, “nuclear weapons state” is perhaps of interest given America’s recent re-definition of its ‘red line’ with regard to Iran. The red line is the situation that America is categorically unwilling to tolerate, that is, they will go to war to prevent it. Until May this year….

    Read more….
    http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/iran/1683-how-britains-top-spy-is-beating-the-drums-for-war-on-iran

  23. prism 25

    Thanks for kind words Standardistas. A short break, a visit with my grandchild in Christchurch and some weeding will leave me with overdue jobs done and happy memories. So I’ll concentrate on such things for a while and return a better person, with a tidier section, I hope.

  24. Draco T Bastard 26

    We’ve all heard about “piracy” and how it’s theft from the music and film industries but…

    Five years ago a composer created music for use in a one-off anti-piracy video. However, without his permission it was used time and again on dozens of commercial DVDs such as Harry Potter. Even in the wake of a huge controversy over “corrupt” and “mafia-like” practices, the local music rights group that got involved in the case failed to pay him the money he was owed. The case went to court and this week the music rights group lost.

    …apparently these groups don’t think that those same standards apply to them.

    • Colonial Viper 26.1

      No apparently about it mate. One set of rules and enforcement for the creatives and the workers. Another completely different set for the elite and the corporates (and they get to write both sets).

      • felix 26.1.1

        “elite and the corporates (and they get to write both sets)”

        Yeah nah. This is a case of a slack collection agency.

        Gotta watch those torrentfreak headlines, they have a habit of conflating quite separate things. In this example they’re making it appear as if the anti-piracy group were the ones not paying up.

        Which is, you know, impressively hypocritical-sounding to a 13 year old on Digg.com

        • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.1

          Any particular reason you decided not to deem that private sector collection agency (which appears to cover deals totalling many millions of euros) a “corporate”?

          You know, since they are supposed to collect monies from the huge entertainment companies they have relationships with and consequently pass them on to artists, but whoops, appears not to.

          • felix 26.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, it possibly has a corporate structure.

            Not really the point though.

            • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.1.1.1

              But you wouldn’t be too surprised if the senior management of that collection agency happen to be former employees of Time Warner, Sony Pictures, Viacom, etc. right?

              Because as you know, that’s how the elite and the corporates do their dirty work.

              • felix

                I think you’re a bit confused about the role of a collection society.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Its not a “collection society”. Its a for-profit private sector corporate.

                  It also happens to be the same private organisation which took Kazaa to court for copyright infringement against the major media companies. Nice that they’re such good friends of the big studios.

                  They consequently had Kazaa shut down.

                  • felix

                    Dude, you’re confused.

                    Collection societies are always private sector organisations, designed to turn profits which are in most cases entirely distributed to their members.

                    Their role is to collect money payable to composers and authors of musical works, and in my experience they generally do a pretty good job of it considering the logistics.

                    Sounds like this particular society was a pretty slack in this instance, but I’m not going to spend time looking into it because it’s a fricking torrentfreak story which are generally either deliberately misleading (as this one seems to be) or entirely bullshit.

                    Couldn’t give a fuck about Kazzaa but I’m sorry for your loss.

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