Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
We have become a cruel, ugly and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.
‘Homeless people are finding themselves thousands of dollars in debt to Work and Income (Winz) for money loaned to them to stay in motels.
Winz will loan people money to rent out a motel room as emergency housing, when there is nowhere else to put them.
People then have to repay the debt, and many say that is just not possible.
Earlier this week, when asked what people living in cars or garages should do, Prime Minister John Key had a simple reply.
“My really strong advice is to go and see Work and Income,” he said, “and we’ll see what we can do, because I think people very often don’t understand what’s available to them.
“My experience with Work and Income is they do their very best to support people in those situations, especially when children are involved.”
He was talking to people like Nicole.
That is just horrible, infact I’m struggling to find the words to describe how shit that is, 👿 Are the powers that be really just gutter trash loan sharks.. Ashamed of my country.
Loan sharks is an excellent description. The PM sends you to WINZ, WINZ sends you to a motel room you could never afford, and then WINZ cuts your benefit to repay the motel bill.
Labour, Greens, NZ First, Maori party:
Your job is to convince the public that Key, Anne Tolley, and Paula Bennett are callous vultures. Do it now!
Only people benefiting from this set up are the moteliers. I am starting to picture signs up at every second motel in Auckland with “We do WINZ quotes” signs at the door, similar to what happens in the US, where what passes for their welfare system supports an industry of small business owners who do things like cash welfare cheques, buy food stamps, etc.
War is Peace,
There is no housing crisis
Freedom is Slavery
Selling land to overseas buyers is good
Ignorance is Strength
The dairy industry is strong
“Believe us……… John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 2.1
As shown here on a clip I hadn’t seen. Perhaps it should be called a lullaby for the corrupt, featuring john key telling us in all sincerity that “I don’t recall.”
In order for a client to be considered for an Advance Payment of Benefit they must be able to identify a particular immediate need for an essential item or service.
In determining if a particular immediate need exists, consider:
the effect on the client and partner or dependent children (if any) if the need is not met
when that effect might be expected to impact on that or those persons
the client’s ability to meet the need from his or her own resources
the assistance that is or might be available to the client from other sources or other Extra Help from Work and Income that may be available to the client to meet the particular immediate need
the client’s existing level of debt, and whether the rate of repayment of the proposed Advance of Benefit would be manageable considering:
whether the reduction of the amount of benefit payable will leave enough for the client’s living expenses and any other debt repayments and
the likelihood it would cause the client to seek further advances or other Extra Help
whether the client is likely to continue to be in receipt of the benefit for the period over which the Advance would be repayable and
any other matters put forward by the client to justify the advance
If the client meets all qualifications, they may be able to receive a Special Needs Grant for an item or service that is not specified if:
special circumstances exist and
they and/or their family would suffer serious hardship without the item or service
If you need help deciding whether to pay an emergency Special Needs Grant in these cases contact Helpline.
Payment
Unless exceptional circumstances exist, the maximum amount payable towards another emergency grant is $500.
A Special Needs Grant for other emergency grants may be recoverable or non-recoverable. To help you decide whether the Special Needs Grant should be repaid, consider:
the purpose of the grant
the nature of the needs
whether it would be fair in regards to other clients to require payment and
the effect on the client if they were required to repay the Special Needs Grant
You mean the SPLC report on its own survey containing clear (and no doubt significant) self selection bias, and their attempt to put it forward as an indicative (eg typical) sample of american schools?
As my daughter commented…….I wonder where John Key would be if his government policies re housing were in place when his mother applied for state housing……………he has certainly distanced himself from his beginnings, but ONLY thanks to other people giving him a hand up in hard times, he is despicable.
Key’s schmoozing the people (when getting the Leader of National Party) stage….. So good GS I had to post a bit more of the article….
“I think all New Zealanders would agree that the security, happiness and welfare of their family, which is also dependent on the security and welfare of their community and country, is the most precious thing to them.
“There will always be a social welfare system in New Zealand because you can measure a society by how it looks after its most vulnerable. Once I was one of them. I will never turn my back on that.”
re. whataguy. please watch clip at 2.1.1.1 but comes with x rated cert. for hideousness, so be warned (melody and singer’s voice are quite lovely in contrast to the subject matter though.)
And yes I can become totally deranged by this sorry specimen of a human being in the video.
Where would the likes of Key & Bennett be without the ‘help’ the state afforded them. $1300 a week to stay at an ’emergency home’ that has to be paid back by beneficiaries receiving less than half that a week, how does that work? Reminds me of the U.S. practise of prisoners having to pay for their incarceration then jail them & charge them again when they cannot pay…How are people expected to get out of these traps!
But when Twyford helped design Labour’s “Chinese sounding last names” campaign last year, he distinctly failed to widen the media framing to include buyers from Europe, North America, South Africa, Australia, UK and Ireland, instead preferring to underline the Chinese part of the problem.
Yes that was wrong, but at that moment in time they were right, disregarding those jacked up stat’s ,and of coarse labour did it too, New migrants overwhelmingly vote for the gov’t that let them in, so to speak.
The fifth Labour administration glowed for awhile with their intake. I do agree however their are a lot of white faces steering back at a more multi cultured mob of capitalists running the show now. 👿
Yeah, there’s a reason for that which basically comes down to Smith is the most common name in the English speaking world. Because of the lack of data on who’s buying houses it was only through focussing on uncommon names that anyone could have got an idea of the discrepancy between onshore buyers and offshore buyers.
It really wasn’t racist and it doesn’t take away from the fact that other nationalities are buying up our housing as well. It was simply the only way to show that offshore buyers are a large part of the problem. Unfortunately they didn’t then say that they’re going to outright ban offshore ownership.
so how come Twyford never once said: our data covers Chinese last names only, but to be clear, any foreign buyer regardless of nationality contributes to the problem.
Right in the fucken bolded part. I believe that there was other occasions as well where he was even more explicit.
I know you don’t want to believe it but it was done the way it was done because of the lack of data. That’s it, nothing less and nothing more. You and many others jumped on the RWNJ bandwagon and read more into it than was there.
LOL mate, and I guess the fact that the Labour caucus has not got a single Chinese, East Asian or South Asian/Indian MP (that’s a super region with about 3.5B people) is pure happenstance as well.
Whatever, Labour fucked themselves with “Chinese sounding last names” – it made the party of racial tolerance and ethnic diversity look and sound like the shallow political opportunists that they have become.
The icing on the cake for me was that this occurred just as Little and Labour were starting to poll over 30%. But after the Chinese sounding last names saga, they sank hard and never recovered, as the electorate saw through their hypocrisy, and decided to sit them on the 26% to 28% mark.
After all, Auckland housing became internationally ranked as “severely unaffordable” under Helen Clark’s reign.
You and many others jumped on the RWNJ bandwagon and read more into it than was there.
Why don’t you go away and find some entitled middle class white people to explain to me what racism from the political elite looks and sounds like, cause clearly I have no idea.
Plenty on ‘the left’ have a huge blind spot when it comes to their xenophobia and/or racism. And, to be fair, plenty on ‘the left’ have other, huge blind spots too.
Twyford and those who defend that shit…you’re wasting your breath CV. Them’s is of the left and ipso facto, can’t be racist or xenophobic.
To be honest, it’s not the racism overt or discrete which worries me; especially given that the history of Chinese in NZ is replete with examples of official and unofficial racism. (Let alone what has happened in countries like Fiji, Australia, Malaysia, etc.)
It’s how low the Labour Party – the supposedly liberal broad church which values ethnic diversity and racial harmony – has collapsed in its search for a brief poll bump.
And the stupidity of some supposedly politically astute people in thinking that NZ Chinese like myself, Raybon Kan, Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok and others, shouldn’t exercise our agency and push right back.
“It’s how low the Labour Party – the supposedly liberal broad church which values ethnic diversity and racial harmony – has collapsed in its search for a brief poll bump.”
You are surprised? how many examples of poor decision making have we seen from Labour since Clark was ousted?….they have been rudderless since.
don’t know the numbers (suspect no one does) but think its pretty safe bet to say that Queenstown’s (and central in general) property inflation has been driven by foreign investment, and little of that would be Chinese in origin….unrestricted access for the worlds money looking for a home was always going to be problematic in a low wage economy like NZ.
I have very little time for Shamubeel Eeaqub, after hearing him in person at a council meeting in Auckland (while he was living in Wellington) make excuse after excuse for why we should not care about rising housing costs.
“If people can’t buy – they can rent” was his theme.
There were several pertinent questions from the audience that he replied to by avoiding the question.
His current mode is more concerned, but that is because he is now an Aucklander. But he is still very restrained in what housing solutions are available, and I have not seen him show meaningful effective solutions for those whose housing has hit crisis mode.
I really don’t understand why he is trotted out so often as an economic spokesperson.
I’ve had trouble warming to Shamubeel Eeqaub, despite his apparent popularity. I recall during the GFC years he failed to criticise the government over it’s inaction on economic resilience and assistance to those struggling – they carried on with a BAU approach.
Rather Shamubeel Eequab referred to the individual being responsible for their problems and suggested people make cut backs in their luxury spending without realising people weren’t spending on luxuries, as they were losing jobs, couldn’t find adequate affordable housing, and the places that once supplied those luxuries, like a meal out, where closing down anyway.
I remember him saying something, “do allow your self the occasional treat. Mrs Eeqaub splashes out on a new nail polish now and then”. It was so very patronising and an out of touch statement.
Maybe’s he’s more on to it now days. I don’t know.
PS: re the “if you can’t afford to buy you can rent” theme. That’s fairly redundant. Looking at the rental increases lately, some of them are the up at the same price as paying off a hefty mortgage. The average weekly rental of a not very spectacular 3 bdr in Wellington is now nearly the same as we pay on our massive mortgage.
I had an argument with him on Twitter a few months back when he came up with the idea that all of Auckland’s golf courses be turned into housing. It was a purely ‘economic’ argument that he made along the lines of: Golf courses are large and expensive to maintain and only the rich use them but if we turned them into housing we’d both decrease council spending on them and increase ratepayers and so be able to reduce rates.
He obviously did not understand that a city actually needs the large green spaces in them. Sure, turn them into parks that everyone can enjoy rather than just a bunch of people swinging clubs but keep the bloody things.
To me his recent ‘transformation’ into a caring economist is almost subconscious. Subconsciously he’s realised that the economics he was taught at university and which has made him quite well off doesn’t work but he’s still clinging on to it. He’s got a few more years to go to full conscious realisation and he may never get there.
PS: re the “if you can’t afford to buy you can rent” theme. That’s fairly redundant.
Actually, it’s pretty close to being fraudulent. As a renter you’re paying off someone’s mortgage and their profit.
It’s lazy thinking when people see green space and equate it with “housing problem solved”. They don’t consider the consequences of loss of green space, environmentally and socially or see housing accessibility being tied to other factors such as market regulation, taxation regulation or stagnant wages, social issues around proximity to work, transport and business hubs and the high cost of living.
Interesting observation of S.E’s apparent evolution into a more compassionate approach towards economics.
“He obviously did not understand that a city actually needs the large green spaces in them.”
much like his “zombie towns” thing – where he utterly failed to note that many of them are a shorter drive to a big center than the average AK commute, and that people who live there either create their own employment or… commute
Be interested to hear if anyone challenges Twyford for backing sprawl today, and asks him who will pay for the increased infrastructure it demands compared with density.
In all the discussions around the environment, we hardly or if at all talk about animal farming. In all the discussions around water, animal farming is tagged on, but not really challenged.
To all the farmers who produce fruits, vegetables, pulses and grains. Just remember you are the righteous ones, and I thank you for everything you do.
Cowspiracy is a vegan propaganda film with poor references. There are serious issues with how we farm animals, including animal welfare, resource use and pollution issues. Cowspiracy isn’t a good source of information in that debate.
It’s essentially a documentary about making a documentary on corporate farming.
The promo video is defiantly propaganda, but all such trailers are. Good on them about being honest about their vegan view point.
The movie itself, is more of a interesting ride, with the NGO and state sector being exposed to corporate compliance. Also the difficulty in filming and asking hard questions about the industry. So if that propaganda, so be it.
Greenplease are not happy for sure. They come across as looking weak, money grubbing, and dithers. I’ve been saying for years them and their friends at the World Wide Fund for Nature are corporate lackeys. Look at the T-TIP grand expose from greenplease, decidedly a non-event. They played right into corporate hands.
So what exactly is the problem about talking about the fact animal farming, at least in this country, has virtually destroyed our water quality? Too soon?
Nothing. That’s a daft question tbh adam. It’s not like the vegans are the only people seriously concerned, or taking action.
The problem with the film Cowspiracy is that it’s core thesis is that being vegan is better than eating meat and dairy. That’s patently ideological and it skews everything else they present. People need to eat what is local, and if that is small amounts of meat then that’s actuall fine. Most vegans eat highly processed, industrial foods are also hugely problematic for the planet including in terms of CC. I have absolutlely no problem with the industrialised world being told to eat less meat and dairy. But when the ideology is stop eating those foods no matter what, you end up getting a worse than useless message. If addressing CC and other urgent environmental issues was about finding substitutes so we can carry on with our excessive lifestyles, then going vegan might make some kind of sense in terms of possibly mitigating damage. But it’s a nonesense in terms of shifting societies to actual sustainability. There is nothing sustainable about most vegan diets.
I thought the stuff with Greenpeace as obviously a set up, but they’re big people they can handle it. Much more interesting to me was the reviews I read from the regenerative agriculture people, the people who are actually practicing what they preach. This is where it came out that the references Cowspiracy were using were poor and/or skewed.
I’ve critiqued it before. There are far better ways to be addressing Western consumption,
There’s nothing wrong with dairy farming, it’s how we’re doing it. Cowspiracy is a fundamentalist vegan film that doesn’t support its assertions very well. It also seems to be comparing industrial stock farming with industrial agriculture and deciding that industrial agriculture is best. Both are highly polluting and destroy ecologies. Swapping one for the other out of ideological concerns just creates different problems, what we need to do instead is make all farming sustainable and regenerative. (that should probably read horticulture)
Heard this observation being made the other day in a podcast interview of a vegan turned hunter. He pointed out that although there are definitely cultures that have thrived on an intergenerational vegetarian diet, he wasn’t aware of a single one that had based its diet on veganism.
And there’s also the fact that veganism can and often does cause more environmental degradation that other options.
The problem with the film Cowspiracy is that it’s core thesis is that being vegan is better than eating meat
I love eating meat but even I have to admit that the land required to raise a just a handful of cows would sustainably provide all the vegetable based nutrition needed for 50 or 100 families.
That depends entirely on what you are growing and where. If you look at protein alone, the amount of plant protein needed to sustain a population intergenerationally is the first big challenge. It’s all very well for 20 something men to go vegan, but it’s much harder through pregnancy, birth and breast feeding, which is why there are not cultures that do it. You might get a few women able to do that, but all women over subsequent generations, it’s just really hard. And much much harder in the power down when you don’t have beans and nuts being shipped to you from all over the world.
The most productive agriculture with the least impact I know utilises animals into polyculture (some traditional Chinese systems are probably some of the most sustainable on the planet for dense populations and were done for thousands of years). Monocropping wheat, soy, sheep or dairy cows is always going to be wrong. More sustainable cultures eat less meat, but they still eat some and they eat the whole animal (not just the meat). We are so far from being efficient it’s not funny.
the land required to raise a just a handful of cows would sustainably provide all the vegetable based nutrition needed for 50 or 100 families.
If you grow grain to feed cows with like some kind of idiot, then sure. If you grow cows by feeding them grass, like we did up until recently, then no, that’s not true at all. The fact that the world has an over-supply of idiots feeding grain to cows is a problem with idiots, not animal farming per se.
I agree, Especially on the way we are farming. What the point of farming on a industrial level, when industrial farming is the problem.
I’m not a vegan, nor do I support it. As it stands, it will just mean swapping one corporate master for another. So at some point, we collectively need to ask what is best practice? I think you ask that.
But my initial point was not cowspiracy by the way, even though they are the people being talked to, in the “Days of Revolt” video. It’s about the fact the corporate dominance is everywhere. And in food, it has been very insidious problem. It is just at the point of animal farming, we can see how much of a problem it has become. And how one aspect of industrial farming, is feeding another part of industrial farming and the population has no input to this debate.
Even farmers themselves are being deprived of participating in that debate.
To me it looks like the same old shit as all the other fucked up things we are doing. Greed and selfishness and disconnection.
One of the biggest challenges in NZ is how farmers who want to change can do so and still have a viable business. It looks to me like most are tied into systems that are very hard to get out of, esp if they have big debt.
Good on them about being honest about their vegan view point.
I’ve no problem with someone following a vegan diet – hell, I was vegan for some years. Do you watch ‘Game of Thrones’ and know the character ‘Sparrow’? That’s how far too many vegans approach the world – as holier than thou, judgmental arseholes.
(Apologies for making a reference to a piece of pop culture that not everyone will be able to pick up on)
Effectively you do have a problem with vegans then, because the ones that don’t peddle bullshit about their impact on the planet are few and far between.
Know how there was a system in balance that included (I don’t know) hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of ruminants? The problem is CO2 from fossil fuel has knocked that equilibrium to hell in a handbasket.
That’s not to suggest that land use isn’t a contributory factor now that we’ve shafted everything, but really…
Worth remembering that the “system in balance” you refer to included no more than ~0.5B population for all of human history except the last 500-600 years.
Way back in 2006 the UN had this to say about the issue:
9 November 2006 – Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation…
“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said…
When emissions from land use and land use change are included, the livestock sector accounts for 9 per cent of CO2 deriving from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65 per cent of human-related nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of CO2. Most of this comes from manure.
And it accounts for respectively 37 per cent of all human-induced methane (23 times as warming as CO2), which is largely produced by the digestive system of ruminants…
How much CO2e do you think the huge herds of wilderbeast, buffalo and what not produced? I don’t know if there are more cows now than there ever was wild herds, but the point remains that it’s fossil related CO2 that has destroyed the equilibrium.
And again. I’m not suggesting that land use, with all the accompanying destruction of eco-systems that probably dealt with shit and what not n a natural environment, isn’t a problem.
Interestingly the great plains (now the dustbowl) were built and sustained by bison. Annually they consumed a small portion of growth and trampled the rest into the ground, causing an increase in water retention and fertility the next years crop was corrospondingly bigger and the cycle continued untill the topsoil (mostly made of carbon) was metres deep representing many gazillion of tons of carbon retained.
the most important fact from this story is that it is far more effective and quicker to capture carbon by allowing “weeds” and incorporating them into the soil than any other scheme so far devised. And so doing actually increases the productive capacity of land for food. (Once we let go of plow, poison , spray, fertilise, monoculture as “the only way to make enought food”)
Properly organised humans have the ability to sequester shitloads of carbon quite quickly and live better lives for it.
There is nothing (except interest payments) to stop a dairy farmer from managing their cows in a manner analagous to the bison of the great plains, doing the science, claiming the carbon credits, improving land and water quality, and… producing milk and meat.
It would be “uneconomic” but that would seem to be the only downside!
Am completely on board re that kind of farming. A few caveats though. I’ve seen some big claims re amounts of carbon sequestered but not much actual evidence yet. The evidence is there for building soil, but not so much for quantities of carbon captured.
I really hope it doesn’t get tied into carbon credits. We need sustainable economics too.
Do you think that big plains system would work for dairying? I’ve seen it for cattle, but not animals that need to be brought in and milked every day or twice a day. There is something problematic about all that foot traffic anyway, and it doesn’t mimic the natural systems which were cyclical over the year and perennial grass/weed growth rates.
thats why i claimed “gazillions” of tons 🙂 but notwithstanding that I am quietly confident in claiming 1 that the topsoil of the great plains was meters deep and 2 that it was predominatly made of carbon. I dont actually know of studies of “soil sequesture of carbon” any links appreciated.
An important side issue that should not be overlooked is water retention and silt retention , if you have a highly structured soil composed of organic material “meters deep” you can dump a significant part of a meter of water and retain most of it and almost all of any silt and nutrients in that water, water being the number one limiter/enabler of plant growth, the potential for increased production in areas of seasonally uneaven precipitation (most places!) is huge! obviously this is important in terms of resiliancy to climate change events.
As for dairying consider that 1 trampling (up to a point) is essential to the process and 2 maby milking dosnt have to be centralised to the extent that it is now.
We’ve had quite a few conversations in the past about this. I’ve looked for the numbers on sequestration, there is some research being done but nothing definitive yet. My own view is that it doesn’t matter what the research says because we should be transitioning to these kinds of agriculture anyway. And we still need to reduce emissions.
I’ve seen something recently on reforesation, esp regenerating forest and how much carbon it sequesters. Thinking now seems to be changing on this and it’s being seen as meaningful in terms of quantity. I’ll see if I can find a link.
Totally with you on soil and water too (been banging away at the one here too, esp everytime the media starts talking about drought).
Re dairying, yes trampling is part of the process but not in a confined area in a confined space of time. You may be right and that it would work with smaller, localised farms. A house cow or 3 in every neighbourhood too 😉 Can’t do industrial, export dairy though.
From my perspective, the corporate industrial farming model is a major contributor to CO2 emissions. Everything in the chain from production to delivery. As Rosie said below, the fact they think it economic to ship oats half way around the world is just madness, and a waste of resources.
So, prioritise making our energy system fossil free. We have to do that right now anyway regardless of any land use issue. That knocks a lump out of the emissions you’re attaching to ag.
Do that and it doesn’t matter a toss if somebody wants to transport oats half way around the world. Also, do that and market economics may no longer be viable – no big deal to my mind and probably a very good side effect of doing the right thing 😉
Meanwhile and in concert…
Radically reconfigure agriculture – replace the industrial models with more sane methods and systems.
Cows in NZ? Do we even need 10% of the numbers we have? Whatever, time to get our shit together. I think everyone commenting on this is on the same page, yes?
“Do that and it doesn’t matter a toss if somebody wants to transport oats half way around the world.”
I think it does matter. From a CC perspective, we have to reduce everything we can, and given there will be some who won’t and that we’re already very late to the party, then adopting eat local is one of the easiest ways we can of shifting to a low carbon economy. Even if we transition shipping to sail instead of diesel, there are still all the other miles to and from port (in NZ food miles within the country are worse than the ones to get food to NZ from overseas).
It’s also a fundamental of sustainability. I think the case can be made for shipping some things (coffee, spices, medicines, rare materials), but in general the whole shipping economy is inherently unsustainable. What is the carbon and other environmental cost of manufacturing a freight liner? And all the other industry that has to exist around that? I’m also wondering if the economics don’t stack up in the same way as with airlines (the more we use them the more airports they keep building and thus the necessity to sell more tickets etc).
imo the whole issue is primarily one of overpopulation of the human race…this is where we should start
…meat eating did not used to be a problem
1.) …countries, cultures and religions( which call for over- population eg male dominated Catholic Church) …which overpopulate must be called to account ( we all know which countries are overpopulated )
( Western countries have not increased their populations for some time and in fact many are decreasing in population…well- educated women with equal opportunities for education and jobs do not over-breed…overpopulation is a feminist issue)
2.) …world economics and capitalist values must have a different idea of what constitutes quality of life and morality …it isnt consumerist wealth and it isnt growth at all costs
3.) the values of the planet and sustainability of the planet Earth /Gaia/ Papatuanuku must be paramount
( we must eat and live frugally…rampant consumerism should be frowned upon…animal rights like human rights, indigenous peoples’ rights , and women’s rights to control their lives and reproduction must be paramount)
NZ has specialised in selling animal products to people who don’t need them. We have our own set of culpabilities.
And we probably have more people that we can sustain too. Population is an issue for industrialised countries. NZ is currently using something lke 2.5 x the resources available.
In terms of fossil related CO2, if our energy system is fossil free – that includes all transport – it really doesn’t matter. You wanna sail or float whatever where-ever? Fine. Seriously.
As the rest of my comment above suggests, given the other changes that we have to make at the same time, and given the likely effect on the global market economy of all the changes, the chances are no-one will want to.
What about the righteous farmers who produce fruit, vegetables, pulses and grains and then sell these as animal feed to other farmers. Are they still righteous?
If all else fails go for the scear debate? And you said earlier that the video was nothing more than propaganda – Then weka I’m calling you for doing the same. Sheesh, talk about spin. Who said, not to grow local, it’s not corporate support going on here.
This is anti-corporate, but sure spin it away to some sort of what ever it is you are doing.
Who, in the video was defending one aspect of the corporate sector verse another? Please any point in the video? It was having go at this one aspect of farming, which people rush to defend, by any means necessary it seems…
Adam – go through a typical, thoughtful vegan diet. Strip out everything that was grown overseas using industrial monoculture practices, or processed using highly industrial processes and son on. What’s left? A viable diet? I don’t think so.
And balance up various alternatives, with regards environmental impact, both within and beyond the limits of veganism.
Y’know, things like potatoes versus rice or soy versus wild meat…
My argument was around the original video, and the corporate take over of the food chain. As I said above, swapping one corporate overlord for another based on diet, is in my eyes – stupidity of the highest order.
And no I don’t support a vegan diet. A vegan meal or two a week be a nice change. Or vegetarian meals two or three times a week. Affordable fruit and veggies, rather than them being inflated by corporate industrial farming of animals – would be nice as well.
On corporate take-over of the food chain – you been aware of the apparently successful lobbying by Fonterra these past few years to kill off farmgate sales? The legislation clamping down on small, possibly quite ‘on to it’, possibly organic producers of dairy, is getting ridiculously restrictive.
Last I heard (a few weeks back) was that, whereas some delivery to pick-up point had been allowed if the milk was placed in some cooler or fridge arrangement, new legislation was knocking that on the head. Think about this. It’s only a few years back that ‘industrial’ milk was dropped on peoples’ doorsteps in the middle of the afternoon.
Go back over the last few years and you’ll find a smattering of stories about the supposed health dangers of consuming dairy from those same small producers.
Ah monopoly, the fundamental flaw no capitalist is willing to admit.
Just another example of corporate madness. Yes I’m aware.
Here an odd story which may make you mad. A person I know makes cheese at home, they would get on their motorcycle and go down country to get farm fresh organic milk from the gate.
They last time they did this, they were told, they could not buy the milk as they were on a motorcycle. Something about a local by-law, or some such.
Hmmm, is that the raw milk issue? Or are you saying that the laws have changed around pasteurised milk sales too?
The previous law said you could sell 5 (or 8?) litres of raw milk per person per day from the gate. You couldn’t transport it, and you couldn’t make products from it and sell them. Lots of buying and selling was being done under the radar as people found ways around that.
The new laws are better and worse, after a long consulation process (by MAF I think). It’s now easier to sell raw milk (and buy it). But producers have to prove they have safe practices, and that costs them (they have to have a plan and do testing I think). Hard on really small producers, but if we want to be shipping raw milk it’s essential. Raw milk can contain pathogens that can make humans very sick. That’s why we have pastuerisation.
And yeah, there is some hooha about where and when raw milk can be sold and buyers having to be registered. What they’re worried about is if they get an outbreak of ecoli etc that they can trace it back to the farm and that they can trace from the farm to other buyers. It’s not an unreasonable public health perspective, but they’re not being very smart in how they manage it.
I can’t categorically state whether it was pasteurised milk or not. But I doubt if it was raw if it was already illegal to transport raw milk to a point of sale.
The laws on raw milk sales changed last year. Before you couldn’t transport, how you can. But there are rules on how you can transport. You can still sell from the gate. The law is an improvement in that all the people buying raw milk before can now do so illegally. Most were doing so illegally up until recently.
It is still available – Just. Pretty much what weka is saying.
We get ours from http://www.livemilk.co.nz/
It’s delivered on a weekly basis and stored in fridges at the local Bin Inn here.
An excellent product. Won’t drink the Fonterra crap. Especially the way the conventional dairy herd of today is treated and fed.
Massey University zoology student Ruby Mammone got her raw milk from Gorge Fresh Organics, which used a system of chilled collection depots to distribute its milk. That distribution method will soon be illegal.
Only farmgate sales and home deliveries of raw milk would be allowed from November. Some farmers said the new regulations could drive as many as half those selling raw milk out of the business.
yeah, MAF or the MPI or whoever fucked it up. But the law change last year (or the year before) was an improvement. Prior to then the only legal way to sell/buy raw milk was 8L/day per person at the gate. Nothing else was legal.
I’m guessing that what happened was they changed the law and a whole bunch of producers went legit and now the MPI are tightening up again abit in response to what those bigger commercial companies are doing (if it was the smaller companies, it would probably be less of an issue). It’s still an improvement (long time raw milk buyer here). The big problem IMO is the cost of putting in food safety plans for very small producers.
I’m opposed to big companies selling raw milk commercially via conventional supply chains. It’s just more capitalism, trying to make money instead of producing safe, local, low emissions food. If we want unindustrialised food, then we need to have non-industrial supply, not big industrial and polluting supply chains that for this product at least are unsafe.
Unfortunately some of the smaller producers are going to get hit but not all, there is still scope to sell raw milk using other models. Eg you could have a dairy farm of 20 cows, bottle the milk, and then sell it at the gate if you are on a main road, or deliver to your customers if not. That’s probably still better than the big supply chain system that moves food huge distances.
That crisis seems to have been avoided bill – as weka explained above. We are still receiving our milk on a regular basis. In fact have some in the fridge right now.
Actually home delivery is not an improvement as the need to keep the milk at below 4 Degrees cannot be assured when delivering. Better to have a collection point. This point was made by many to the committee considering the matter last year.
It’s also about time of year and climate. I’ll leave raw milk out at room temperature and let it naturally sour, so the refrigeration is a moot point for me personally (and I’ll only buy from people I know and trust because of that). But we’re now talking about industrial systems and I don’t have too much of a problem with public safety being prioritised.
Prior to the first law change I’ve bought milk that was delivered to a suburb and kept in someone’s fridge and you picked it up from there. Was the MPI’s original idea that it could be left at each person’s gate?
“It’s delivered on a weekly basis and stored in fridges at the local Bin Inn here.”
That’s going to change this year though right? Farm sales or home deliveries only? Although later they are talking about registered Depots. FFS, if they can’t even get their message straight on their website…
Previously, the law restricted sales of raw milk to the farm, with a limit of five litres per person. The previous raw milk policy did not adequately regulate the production, supply, and sale of raw milk and led to a number of issues that the law never anticipated, such as collection points.
MPI conducted extensive public consultation on raw milk policy in 2011 and 2014. A summary and analysis of the submissions MPI received during the consultation period and a report on a 2014 survey of buying, selling and consuming raw milk can be found here:
Proposed options for the sale of raw milk to consumers
After announcing the raw milk policy and during the drafting of the regulations, MPI engaged with sellers of raw milk on the technical details of these requirements in a series of workshops to ensure they can be practically implemented.
The Government has undertaken to review this raw milk policy two years after full implementation (November 2018) to ensure that it works effectively in practice.
If all else fails go for the scear debate? And you said earlier that the video was nothing more than propaganda – Then weka I’m calling you for doing the same. Sheesh, talk about spin. Who said, not to grow local, it’s not corporate support going on here.
It’s not spin though adam. I’m glad we got to talk about what you perceive as the problem (industrial farming). It’s just that for me Cowspiracy is worse than useless (for reasons explained).
This is anti-corporate, but sure spin it away to some sort of what ever it is you are doing.
I think the problem is how you framed it at the start,
In all the discussions around the environment, we hardly or if at all talk about animal farming. In all the discussions around water, animal farming is tagged on, but not really challenged.
To all the farmers who produce fruits, vegetables, pulses and grains. Just remember you are the righteous ones, and I thank you for everything you do.
I often talking about animal farming and the environment and have said plainly that I think it’s a huge part of the water issues in NZ. And there are plenty of farmers doing bad shit growing plants too. So it was hard not to respond to your apparent statement that plant farming good, animal farming bad. I really don’t see it that way.
Who, in the video was defending one aspect of the corporate sector verse another? Please any point in the video? It was having go at this one aspect of farming, which people rush to defend, by any means necessary it seems…
I haven’t watched the video. Seriously, if they’re interviewing the Cowspiracy guys I’m probably not going to. That’s how bad I think they are.
Another thing to consider is all the palm production in south east Asia. Huge amount of forest have been burnt off in Indonesia to make way for palm plantations. Orang-utans, who are tree dwelling primates who can’t live on the ground, die and their babies are orphaned. The forest fires contribute to green house gases and to top it all off NZ dairy farmers, despite our small size, are the biggest consumers of palm kernel on the planet. We are part of the problem.
This is not a righteous cropping industry.
Given the destructive nature of cropping around the world to do with irrigation, water rights, (and territorial issues like Israel taking Palestinian land and water to grow vege) land clearance, loss of natural habitat, introduction of GE cropping and the monopoly big agri business like mansanto have over both the developed and economically developing world, there isn’t alot of cropping that is righteous.
Not that I would use the word righteous. Sounds religious and it’s too black and white.
Locally produced GE free fruit vege and grain cropping however can be sustainable and productive. Hard in a global market though. Eg, we once use to grow organic oats in Canterbury. They were marketed by Harroways. Over the years they dropped off production as cheap organic oats imported from Canada came into the country at almost half the price.
Industrial food production can’t be seen as righteous in any sense.
The forest fires contribute to green house gases and to top it all off NZ dairy farmers, despite our small size, are the biggest consumers of palm kernel on the planet. We are part of the problem.
And the reason that we are the biggest consumers of palm kernel is that our dairy farmers have vastly overstocked NZ land, in an effort to repay the hugely uneconomic mortgages the banks allowed them to ask for and take out.
Locally produced GE free fruit vege and grain cropping however can be sustainable and productive. Hard in a global market though. Eg, we once use to grow organic oats in Canterbury. They were marketed by Harroways. Over the years they dropped off production as cheap organic oats imported from Canada came into the country at almost half the price.
Southland and Otago too. I think farmers in NZ could get better prices for other crops which they are of course exporting (organic farmer anyway). It’s a high level of disconnect from the reality of the physical world.
Yep, if we’d chosen to be genuinely green as opposed to pretend green we’d have a bigger export market, especially into Europe. Our geographical isolation has upsides in terms of GE free borders and reduced disease threat as well as the benefit of using organic agricultural techniques. We’ve lost opportunities on so many levels, more than trade, but I don’t think it’s too late, yet.
Hi adam. Are you talking about authors and commenters on TS when you talk and “we”? Or in a broader sense?
If you’re talking about TS, farmed animal welfare has been fairly well aired over the years, both by authors, such as John Darroch of Farmwatch, and TS commenters in general.
The discussions have mostly been valuable and thoughtful.
As water quality is going down the gurgler, and climate change upon us. The debate need to be kept rolling.
I’d like to point out that with the “we in NZ can do nothing about climate change” brigade banging on and on. NZ can actually do something quite significant. We could end animal farming.
Thanks adam. I’m a pescetarian, formerly a vego for 30 years so am on your side.
Agree whole heartedly we need to keep talking about animal welfare and the impact animal farming has on our environment directly, and it’s contribution to GHG emissions. The three big issues.
I’d be happy to see a massive reduction in dairying and meat production from an ethical viewpoint but I’m in a minority. I think those that choose to purchase free range or wild meat and organically produced dairy are also in the minority. So those who are big consumers of these products need to be the ones who demand change – a mass movement.
I don’t think we will get a mass movement. Not going to happen in this country, to much baggage.
It will take a group like the abolitionists, small, popularly despised, but on the right side of history. Working to end animal farming, for the good of humankind.
Sadly, thats true. There will never be a mass call for humane and environmentally sound farming practices in THIS country.
And despite my own beliefs I wouldn’t call for an outright end to animal farming. I think that’s too idealistic. Judge not?
I get the feeling from animal rights activists, and I’m happy to be corrected, that the priority is to end inhumane farming practices, full stop, not farming itself. I think they accept people will always consume meat and dairy.
From the climate change perspective, farming comes under the umbrella of all harmful human behaviours and practices.
“There will never be a mass call for humane and environmentally sound farming practices in THIS country.”
On the farm I look after there is an old cowshed , the channel for the washdown water goes directly to the river, if you did that now you would be getting fined out of the game.
There is still improvements to be made yes but to say there is no pressure to improve things is bs
I’m not saying there’s no pressure, I’m well aware of the work various NGO’s have been doing behind the scenes to put political pressure on governments.
But any improvements have been hard won, there’s a long way to go and these NGO’s are still only a minority. If it weren’t for groups like these you’d still be letting the wash down water into the river, (or should I say there would be no law against it, not your personal compulsion specifically) but it’s no thanks to consumer pressure.
Yes. We could end animal farming and…many people would get sick and some would die while the overall population would become less and less healthy and resilient.
End industrial farming by all means. But as I commented above, it seems no-one can point to any culture at any point in history that has survived or thrived on a vegan diet.
You met vegans with huge B12 deficiency? I have. They are very, very unwell people who are killing themselves, with serious brain damage thrown in along the way.
B12, if it’s going to be taken up by the body, has to come from some place other that fruit, grain and veg.
I’d never become vegan; as you point out its an easy way to screw your body at a fundamental level.
But if we are talking about good health, cutting back your weekly intake of red meat to roughly a quarter kilogram a week is a beautiful and easy thing to do.
Whoops that’s just one steak dinner for some people.
Nope I think ending animal farming is the go. Then turn all that land back to commons.
Let the sheep, deer, cows, pigs, goats, and other animals do as they will in these spaces. So then we can hunt them. They taste better, wild venison is lovely, as is wild pork.
Dairy from a roaming animal? I mean sure, it can be done and some cultures still do it, though they do keep herds, so the animals aren’t quite wild or free.
As for letting sheep and goats run riot…I’m from Scotland and Scotland was covered in forest right up until….(drum roll) sheep. And it’s not just that tree cover was cut down, nothing has a chance to regenerate if sheep and goats are around. And much the same with red deer.
Wild cows, like pigs, are incredibly dangerous wee beasties.
And none of those animals fit with NZs ecology.
Maybe it could be done in Europe and elsewhere…alongside reintroducing the relevant predator species, but in NZ? Thinking it’s a bad idea. There is already enough wild meat out there causing damage that is hunted without deliberately adding to the numbers.
How about, apart from animals being farmed for dairy, we eat rabbits and chickens that many of us can have in our own back yards? Isn’t that a better option than letting a whole pile of sheep, goats etc free reign?
The semi wild semi farmed herds of cattle sound like a good idea.
Have you any idea about how fucking dangerous feral cattle, or indeed any feral animal, are, because you know, testosterone-driven bachelor males, what could possible go wrong?.
or how much damage a tenfold (or more) increase in the number of idiots armed with high powered rifles in the bush would cause…..dosn’t bear thinking about.
It doesn’t have to be a free for all. I’m treating the suggestion as a thought experiment. If we were eating less meat and didn’t need to do industrial export farming for profit what would our relationship with meat animals look like. Adam is talking about animals in a less controlled situation as a way of improving the land. The roaming herd thing appears to be a key factor in both regenerating soil and sequestering carbon (reference Alan Savory). This could be done on land with controlled access.
The other aspect is reducing animal suffering by avoiding the freezing works (and the whole economic rort that exists in that system and seriously limits what farmers can do). The omega oils ratio in wild animals is better for humans health wise than farmer animals.
I tend to think that domesticated farming is easier but more damaging. I suspect that adam’s idea of letting land revert and animals free range could be done without the herd going feral.
lols. “Letting sheep run riot”. They can be “incredibly dangerous wee beasties” too 🙂
I did some impromptu sheep herding the other day as a few sheep from the neighbouring farm got free on to the development. The poor terrified thing got trapped in a house under construction, got freaked out and headed towards me at a million miles. Had to jump out of the way as she would have knocked me down and winded me.
The cows get out too sometimes and I gently herd the girls back to the farm, call the council blah blah blah, a familiar process, but I leave the bulls alone. I wait till the farmer comes out and hope the bull doesn’t make it to the main streets. Been chased enough by bulls and the odd mad ram in my life to know when to leave well alone.
And they can also make good companions for humans. They are full of personality when we let them be themselves. Who couldn’t love such an adorable face?
I’m a big fan of their wool and the products we can make from their milk. In fact, our treat meal of the week was a falafel and sheep milk houloumi burger tonight. $5.20 for 150gm of NZ produced sheep houloumi at New World and a meal for two. More expensive than other proteins but cheaper than fish.
Cows were once the new sheep but hopefully in the future sheep will reclaim their place as most loved farmed animal in Nu Zuland.
And goats. We need to take them more seriously. They are a very good dairy animal with less environmental impact than cows.
Nope I think ending animal farming is the go. Then turn all that land back to commons.
Let the sheep, deer, cows, pigs, goats, and other animals do as they will in these spaces. So then we can hunt them. They taste better, wild venison is lovely, as is wild pork.
I haven’t caught up on the whole thread yet, but that’s an interesting idea. I don’t think all animal farming. Dairy, wool and leather are the obvious examples. But I do think some part of NZ could be regenerated into productive poly cultures using wild herd animals and forestry. It would be interesting to look at the human population, how much animal protein it needs (and fat), and what you could get from different land bases. I would guess that with the present population we need a degree of farming even with reducing meat and dairy consumption. There was maybe 100,000 Māori in NZ pre-Europeans, so that gives us a sense of the relationship between wild protein and land base size. We could sustain more than that via agriculture, but I doubt we could feed 4,000,000+ with completely wild protein.
To give our population roughly 1 kg of meat a week you would need to catch roughly 7,000,000 animals per year with a carcase weight of 30 KGS,
That’s one hell of a lot of hunters working and very slick operation to destribute it.
It might be better for some here to focus their energies on improving animal welfare and keep the pressure on improving the environmental management.
That’s per year right? I think that we could get the required nutrients from less animals if we ate the whole animal (organ meats, bones, etc). Plus what the other are talking about, eating small animals from close to home, with bigger animals on occassion.
If an adult needs 50g protein/day, and you can get 23gm protein from 85gm beef, then that’s just over 1kg. But if you were also eating nuts, seeds and legumes, you could probably half that at least. Lots of cultures eat small amounts of animal protein often.
But you are right, it’s a lot of work. Hunting takes energy. This is why I think that population is such a crucial issue. Once you start looking at a land base, say the Taeri Plains or the Waitaki catchment for those of us in the South, and how many people could be supported from that land, and doing so without fossil fuels, the whole picture changes. There is a reason that humans had much lower populations before the industrial revolution (as CV keeps pointing out).
It’s a lot more than I eat, but I think it also depends on one’s metabolism and what kind of activity one does. NZ does tend to eat a lot more than it needs nutritionally.
Seriously good conversation you initiated today adam, thanks. Like Bill said, I think we’re all on a similar page, and how heartening to have so many thoughtful people able to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a ts bunfight. Well done everyone.
Very interesting discussion between Kathryn Ryan and David Parker on water….watch out Greens!…David Parker has well thought-out views and is impressive!
“Labour’s environment spokesperson, David Parker, discusses his party’s approach to water: who owns it, should there be a price put on it, and what are Maori rights and interests in it?”
It was impressive Chooky. David really works hard on his portfolio subjects. It’s hard to trip him up as Kathryn Ryan discovered – no disrespect to Kathryn because she was doing her job.
@ Enough is Enough…agreed they will be working together and David Parker is probably repeating their views…but if they are chasing the same vote on water quality David Parker is a very impressive spokesperson on this particular issue
Interesting facts
Amount of carbon sequestered in the earths soil 2500 billion tons
Amount of carbon in atmosphere 800 billion tons
Contribution of the burning of fossle fuels to increase of atmospheric CO2 two thirds
Contribution from loss of soil carbon due to human activity one third !
Soil carbon content is significant and should not be ignored either as a cause of global warming or an avenue for a very real and plausible mitigation strategy
The major carbon terrestrial carbon sinks are not the forest but the grasslands,
Counterintuitively it is the large herbervoirs (bison , cows) that make this possible by
1 trampling most of the years crop back into the soil
2 eating any trees that try to grow and turn it into forest
If it were about what we need to eat alongside reducing transport and energy emissions quickly, yep. If it’s about global economy, BAU, profit driven agribusiness, I can’t see it making much difference. Some, but not enough.
Mass epipheny…dignity…
that’s a lot to ask but getting out of this… yes, that’s on the cards.
“The answer’s in the soil, son”
Sure is!
Personal ephiany is all it takes. Then, get busy!!!
greyshark – permaculture is one platform I employ but I’ve slipped into forest gardening for its expression. Here’s the link to my blog post that has a further link into our recently-published “Forest garden – Autumn” on Youtube, in case you are interested.
I see the temperate forest garden, such as my 25 year old version, as a very good template for an individual, family/whanau or small community to achieve a lot of the aims expressed in this thread – food production of all sorts, community-strengthening, preparation for the effects of a rambunctious climate and so on. A multi-layered forest garden is also a template for thinking and problem-solving, and from that I see the need for a multitude of responses to the issues described above and would not discard any approach lightly – horses for courses. I do have, however, a passion for the soil, it being the basis for much of what we do (I don’t mean to overlook the ocean, though I look out over an estuary here in Riverton, and recognise it’s primary importance to life on earth, it’s just that I’m a plant guy, not a fish guy).
I apologise for not responding to your comment yesterday – I was sequestered in the chambers of Environment Southland, where I spent the day locking horns, Cernunnos-like, with the farmer-councillors, intent on BAU.
Thanx Robert Guyton. It does my heart good just to read about what you are doing, showing us the way to achieve something concrete after our thinking and animated discussion. Thanks for your reply and interest.
also bwaghorn Sound practical thinking going on there I think.
Just a note – did you know Richard Barbe St Baker, Robert? I know he lived in NZ in his later years. Men of the Trees and I Planted Trees was, I think his book.
and I read Wendy Campbell Purdies book about planting in the desert in north Africa. she managed to get trees to grow that were tough, and then they planted vegs underneath their canopy. Women of the Desert was her book I think..
They were inspired to do something life encouraging after WW2 I think. Filled with noble ideals that they brought to bear. Needed again.
edited
Hi greywarshark and thanks. I didn’t meet the Men of the Trees man but did meet men who did 🙂 I had an association with the Southern branch of the MotT (and yes, there were women in that group) and they helped fund some of the tree-based projects I’ve run over the years. The movement in NZ is defunct now, I believe, as there were few young people joining. Our own ‘movement’ here in Riverton (Southland) is going in the other direction, that is, it’s blossoming, with young people joining us in significant numbers, moving to the village even, to be part of the action. We’ve a community forest garden, a neighbourhood heritage apple orchard, a wetland, a superb environment centre with organic food cooperative, seed savers network, displays on permaculture etc – very active, open 7 days and staffed by volunteers, young and old. As well we run a popular Harvest Festival every autumn and an Earth Craft festival in midwinter. We support and encourage growers through the coop and initiate all sorts of community planting projects, overt and covert. We host workshops on all things good, from fermenting to beekeeping, and teach a regular high-level organic growing course every Thursday night. Our Open Orchard project is very well known now and seeks to multiply the heritage apple varieties we’ve rescued from Southland orchards. My own forest garden has 80 different apple varieties sourced from those settler orchards and several other orchards we have planted around the region total about 600 trees. We are volunteer-based for most of our activities and that gives me much cause for hope, seeing what can be done outside of the funding paradigm. Presently, I’m encouraging Southlanders to plant their/our roadsides with hebes and our cycle trails with apple trees of the sort our grandparents established along the roadsides by chucking cores out of the widows of their cars (or charabangs 🙂 Busy times, but hey, we’ve a species to save.
Robert Guyton
Wow With all that going on and you found time to reply to me. I’m chuffed. Am involved with a new cooperative in Nelson centred round organic food, selling vegs fruit and veg cafe food. We will get that running nicely then are going to add community wellbeing fun things, learning workshops etc = want to be a hub of busy bees and positive environmental things. So will be looking at your web site and keep an eye out for good ideas that we can advance up here. We’ll be trying for some cross-fertilisation of ideas!
greywarshark – that’s marvelous and my ol’ hometown to boot! If ever you want to swap notes, feel free to get in touch through the South Coast Environment Society website; http://www.sces.org.nz – an email to them will get to me. We can begin to close the circuits between the deep south and the top of the south. Then, the world! Have you met Nick Kiddey yet, I wonder?
Robert Guyton
I have met Nick, some time ago but haven’t been working in environment for a while, been in op shop mode. Now looking to environment, healthy food, and co=operating together in helpful, positive groups.
I am very hopeful of the keen and practical doers in the environment group being able to carry many of us in NZ aside from its present dire path. I feel Jung’s dark shadow predominating at present and kindness and practicality must link to set the values to hold to and the
environmental groups seem to be the only ones working to change our approach, many just note the error of our ways and enjoy complaining how bad things are.
thanks for that , I appears to me that the work that is being done is within the framework of monoculture maximise short term farming.
what would happen if the sequestration of carbon was the primary focus and take only the produce that arises from that management (in the long term there might be more produce than now)
what is the carbon fixed / acre provided water and nutrients is not limiting (which would be approached under such management) ?
b waghorn – the next iteration of carbon sequestration comes from Graeme Sait’s work with the “magic 5” green crop plants for the extra-effective production of soil-carbon/humus. The volumes of carbon that can be sequestered this way are considerably higher than with just the single crop. The combination is’ brassica, beet, legume, cereal and one other 🙂
I grow these year-round as the understorey in my forest garden. The soil here is extraordinarily good.
We, the people, should pay farmers (they are us also) through the Government-collected taxes to sequester carbon in their soils. All the Governments of the world should provide this incentive to capture atmospheric carbon and tuck it safely away in the agricultural soils of the planet. Quickly now, the clock’s ticking!
Given that effectiveness is highly dependent on soil type and other (variable) environmental factors, meaning that the prospects for such techniques providing long term sequestration are limited, wouldn’t public money be better spent on known, more effective strategies – like emission reductions?
edit: my bad for not reading the preceding comments first. Changing land use regimes or habits is necessary, but again, why pay for a ‘second tier’ solution that everyone should be adhering to anyway? I mean sure, change. Do it. But we all know the principle cause of AGW is burning fossil and that the only solution to that is simply not to burn fossil.
I’m not speaking of biochar at all, though I don’t discount it. I’m talking about the conversion of organic matter (stuff that was alive) into stable carboniferous “material” through the actions of soil organisms. Carbon from the air, into the soil, where it plays various roles, staying put for a very long time and along the way, enhancing soil life and plant growth (for example, it clasps nutrients to its black bosom and releases them on an as-needed basis to hungry plants, nutrients that would otherwise have been flushed through and away by the rain, or bound too tightly to other components of the soil – stand up, clay!)
This is one of my favourite explanations Bill. Basically you use plants to store carbon, deeply, and then you don’t dig it up again,
You have to understand the different kinds of carbon and the states of carbon soils….
Bioneers: Are you saying compost and cover crops are not effective ways to sequester carbon?
Darren: You might increase your net soil carbon quite heavily in the first few years by the application of compost, and all of the aforementioned methods, but will that last over the longer term? The answer is quite clearly no. Great techniques, great to do, but what we need more of is long-chain carbon. It’s largely delivered in the form of polysaccharide exudate or nutrients released from plant root systems, particularly grasses.
Where we want the carbon and where farmers can look to increasing their carbon levels overall is in the depth of soil. You can have 10% carbon in the top six inches and 2% in the next 10 inches, and 11⁄2% in the next 10 inches. That’s not going to sustain agriculture over the long term, and the top 6 inches is not where carbon is going to be kept and stored and sequestered. It’s pretty well impossible to get that short-chain carbon down into the depths without a lot of intervention, which requires a lot of fossil fuels. The best way to do that is to get plant roots to penetrate these depths and to put their exudates down in those depths. There are carbohydrates created out of the interaction between water, sunlight and carbon dioxide, and then manufactured by the plants as a residue, and their primary objective is to feed the soil microlife.
Bioneers: So deep-rooted plants are key to this process.
Darren: What drives the sustenance and the regeneration of the soil life is the plants. The plants are the conduit between the atmosphere and the lithosphere [the Earth’s deep outer layer, which includes soil]. They keep the lithosphere, the soil, and the rhizosphere, the root zone, alive, because they transfer the energy of the sun, manufacture the sugars as carbohydrates, as long chain carbons, and that’s what feeds the economy of the soil.
I’m more familiar with the grazing techniques used to do this, but I’ve been seeing some work on regenerating forest too (yes, they’re starting to realise now that forests sequester more carbon than previously thought).
Did we mention water? Soil carbon/humus holds water molecules like nobody’s business , creating ‘in-land’ lakes that don’t evaporate, being underground, and require no reticulation to get to the plant roots – they’re already there! We here in New Zealand are experts at water-mismanagement. The black ‘carbon-agents’ being described here will solve all our water issues, be they too much or too little water.
Haikai Tane would add great value to the discussion, though he’s not seen on blogs. Taoist farmers have got it going on! Kama Burwell has a blog and she and Nandor have an interesting interview online.
Why pay? Because that’s the lever that ensures success in that sector. Do we want to succeed? Pay them to do it. They are the ‘big fellas’, they have the land and the capability. Permaculturalists/organic farmers etc. own a minuscule percentage of the world’s farmland. It’s the conventional farmland that will receive the carbon that has to be retrieved. Pay or fail, even if it irks you sorely 🙂
Another reason is that many conventional farms carry a high level of debt and aren’t allowed to stray too far from the BAU plan. If we want them to start doing the right thing we have to make that financially viable. Should definitely come with conditions though.
Well the figure i have found for the global sequestration of carbon in grasslands is
.5 pg /y 10-1 which i think means one half a petagram per year times ten to the minus 1
ie 50000000000 kg or .5 billion tons (metric)
Or .06% of the total atmospheric carbon
Of course that will be the total cycle, more or less of that will remain sequestered depending on management, but
Thats actually a rather hopeful number
Assuming my starting numbers and sums arnt complete bullshit !
Bullshit’s good stuff, Xanthe, provided you have the sequestering organisms in place for when it hits the ground 🙂
But lignin, have we mentioned lignin? Throw some of that stuff at soil laced with mycellium of mycorrhizal fungi and we’re really starting to talk carbon sequestration!
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Tuesday, March 19:Kāinga Ora’s dry rot The Spinoff DailyBill McKibben on ‘Climate Superfunds’ making Big Oil pay for climate damage The Crucial YearsPreston Mui on returning to 1980s-style productivity growth NoahpinionAndy Boenau on NIMBYs needing unusual bedfellows Urbanism SpeakeasyNed Resnikoff's case ...
Negative yesterday, negative today. Negative all year, according to one departing reader telling me I’ve grown strident and predictable. Fair enough. If it’s any help, every time I go to write about a certain topic that begins with C and ends with arrrrs, I do brace myself and ask: Again? Are ...
Bryce Edwards writes – It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support ...
Inspirational: The Family of Man is a glorious hymn to human equality, but, more than that, it is a clarion call to human freedom. Because equality, unleavened by liberty, is a broken piano, an unstrung harp; upon which the songs of fraternity will never be played.“Somebody must have been telling lies about ...
Tax Lawyer Barbara Edmonds vs Emperor Justinian I- Nolo Contendere: False historical explanations of pivotal events are very far from being inconsequential.WHEN BARBARA EDMONDS made reference to the Roman Empire, my ears pricked up. It is, lamentably, very rare to hear a politician admit to any kind of familiarity ...
It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support for the various parties in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Housing Minister Chris Bishop delivered news – packed with the ingredients to enflame political passions – worthy of supplanting Winston Peters in headline writers’ priorities. He popped up at the post-Cabinet press conference to promise a crackdown on unruly and antisocial state housing tenants. His ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The Reserve Bank is advertising for a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion advisor. The Bank has one mandate – to keep inflation between one and three percent. It has failed in that and is only slowly getting inflation back down to the upper limit. Will it ...
Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency Waka KotahiThe fact that a ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Gavin Jacobson talks to Thomas Piketty 10 years on from Capital in the 21st CenturyThe SalvoLocal scoop: Green MP’s business being investigated over migrant exploitation claims StuffSteve KilgallonLocal deep-dive: The commercial contractors making money from School ...
It’s a home - but Kāinga Ora tenants accused of “abusing the privilege” may lose it. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Government announced a crackdown on Kāinga Ora tenants who were unruly and/or behind on their rent, with Housing Minister Chris Bishop saying a place in a state ...
This is a guest post by Connor Sharp of Surface Light Rail Light rail in Auckland: A way forward sooner than you think With the coup de grâce of Auckland Light Rail (ALR) earlier this year, and the shift of the government’s priorities to roads, roads, and more roads, it ...
Note: As a paid-up Webworm member, I’ve recorded this Webworm as a mini-podcast for you as well. Some of you said you liked this option - so I aim to provide it when I get a chance to record! Read more ...
TL;DR: In my ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Monday, March 18:IKEA is accused of planting big forests in New Zealand to green-wash; REDD-MonitorA City for People takes a well-deserved victory lap over Wellington’s pro-YIMBY District Plan votes; A City for PeopleSteven Anastasiou takes a close look at the sticky ...
Buzz from the Beehive Here’s hoping for a lively post-cabinet press conference when the PM and – perhaps – some of his ministers tell us what was discussed at their meeting today. Until then, Point of Order has precious little Beehive news to report after its latest monitoring of the ...
David Farrar writes – We now have almost all 2023 data in, which has allowed me to update my annual table of how labour went against its promises. This is basically their final report card. The promiseThe result Build 100,000 affordable homes over 10 ...
I’m a bit worried that I’ve started a previous newsletter with the words “just when you think they couldn’t get any worse…” Seems lately that I could begin pretty much every issue with that opening. Such is the nature of our coalition government that they seem to be outdoing each ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. ...
Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
Last week Transport Minster Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre. The new train control centre will see teams from KiwiRail, Auckland Transport and Auckland One Rail working more closely together to improve train services across the city. The Auckland Rail Operations Centre in ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
“I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
.“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
“It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet – is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
Bob Edlin writes – And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ HeraldThomas CoughlanSimeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
TL;DR:Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it: We want our country to be a ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading → ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
What was that judge thinking?Peter Williams writes – That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop:Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveThe text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary. It can be quickly analysed ...
For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
Questions need to be asked on both sides of the worldPeter Williams writes – The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop:The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
TL;DR:Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
"The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
Pacific Media Watch Earthwise hosts Lois and Martin Griffiths. Earthwise presenters Lois and Martin Griffiths on Plains FM 96.9 community radio talk to Dr David Robie, a New Zealand author, independent journalist and media educator with a passion for the Asia-Pacific region. David talks about the struggle to raise awareness ...
Pacific Media Watch Ismail al-Ghoul, an Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent who was held for 12 hours at Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital, says Israeli forces rounded up Palestinian journalists at the facility and made them kneel on the ground for hours, while naked and blindfolded. “The occupation forces handcuffed and blindfolded us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Wood, Program Director, Energy, Grattan Institute chinasong, Shutterstock Electricity customers in four Australian states can breathe a sigh of relief. After two years in a row of 20% price increases, power prices have finally stabilised. In many places they’re ...
Chumbawamba have reportedly issued the deputy PM a cease-and-desist notice after he used their song 'Tubthumping' before his state of the nation speech. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deborah Lupton, SHARP Professor, Vitalities Lab, Centre for Social Research in Health and Social Policy Centre, and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society, UNSW Sydney kitzcorner/Shutterstock The assertion from Queensland’s chief health officer John Gerrard that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Shutterstock Why are musicians so keen to get played on the radio? It can’t be because of the money. In Australia they are paid at rates so low they ...
"Farmers make a point not to tell our urban cousins how to live, yet Chlöe from central Auckland is hell-bent on having her say about farmers," says ACT Rural Communities spokesman Mark Cameron. “On her first day in the House as Green ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
There’s ample evidence demonstrating free school lunch programmes provide wide benefits across schools, households and communities according to public health researchers. ACT Minister David Seymour wants to reduce the spending on Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
By Wata Shaw in Suva Fiji is facing an exodus of Fijians as many are leaving for overseas seeking employment and education and others are migrating, says Opposition MP Viliame Naupoto. Speaking in Parliament, he said: “His Excellency’s speech (Ratu Wiliame Katonivere) comes after a little over one year of ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Patrick Taylor, Chief Environmental Scientist, EPA Victoria; Honorary Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Macquarie University Naiyana Somchitkaeo/Shutterstock A recent study published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has linked microplastics with risk to human health. The study ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Albert Van Dijk, Professor, Water and Landscape Dynamics, Fenner School of Environment & Society, Australian National University Global climate records were shattered in 2023, from air and sea temperatures to sea-level rise and sea-ice extent. Scores of countries recorded their hottest year ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a teacher explains why he and his partner are in frugal mode – and how they’re making it work. Gender: Male Age: 35Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: I am an intermediate school teacher and my partner is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Bendall, Senior Lecturer, Institute for Humanities and Social Sciences, Australian Catholic University Binge Mary & George, the new British television drama series, depicts the real-life story of Mary Villiers and her son George, and their social climbing at the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jason Nassios, Associate Professor, Centre of Policy Studies, Victoria University This article is part of The Conversation’s series examining the housing crisis. Read the other articles in the series here. Australian state and federal governments spend money in many ways to ...
The finance minister is denying that there’s a $5.6b shortfall in paying for the government’s campaign promises, including tax cuts. At his post-cabinet press conference yesterday, the PM refused to rule out new taxes to pay for the cuts, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s ...
Kāinga Ora tenants abused by their neighbours are doubting the government's crackdown on disruptive tenants will make a difference on their behaviour. ...
Kāinga Ora is New Zealand’s biggest residential landlord, housing more than 180,000 vulnerable people in more than 67,000 properties. Yesterday the government announced a crackdown on its tenants who fall behind on rent. One longtime Kāinga Ora tenant shares her experience.For 18 years I lived in a 1960s standalone ...
Why does this myth persist, and what’s the real reason our skin is suffering?It’s one of the biggest international grievances New Zealanders hold, up there with the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior and 1981’s underarm incident. We’re quick to tell international travellers that the world’s pollution led to the ...
Auckland Council is opposing a fast-track development backed by Sir John Kirwan and Spark NZ, because it doesn’t meet stringent new climate adaptation requirements The post Surf-data centre faces new 3.8C climate warming rules appeared first on Newsroom. ...
When the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was introduced in 2009 it was firmly targeted at gangs and drugs. The legislation means police no longer need a conviction to seize assets that criminals can’t prove were paid for legitimately, as long as their alleged offences are punishable by more than a ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Tuesday 19 March appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Bob’s relationship with certain members of Lincoln’s academic staff continued to deteriorate in the 1990s. Others supported him publicly, though articles such as Roland Clark’s 1993 piece in Growing Today cannot have pleased the university management. Clark wrote that Bob was selling onions from the Biological Husbandry Unit to a ...
SailGP’s races feature in-your-face action, with agile, hydro-foiling catamarans tacking and jibing for the title over several days. However, public comments ahead of the global series’ return to New Zealand have left this past year’s controversy in the shadows, as a key appointment attracts criticism from dolphin advocates. A year ...
Opinion: We are fast approaching a fundamental change in prisons. As the number of people on custodial remand looks set to overtake the number of sentenced prisoners, the main function of prisons in New Zealand may become incarcerating un-sentenced people who may not be guilty of offending. We have already ...
A huge seven months lies in store for the White Ferns, beginning this week with the visit of England and culminating with the T20 World Cup in Bangladesh in September and October. Starting on Tuesday in Dunedin, the world ranked No. 2 visitors will play five T20s and three ODIs, ...
Opinion: In a move that has shocked road safety advocates across the country, the new Minister of Transport, Simeon Brown, is poised to abandon the previous government’s speed limit reduction policy, particularly around schools. Even more alarmingly, he wants school speed limits to be variable rather than full-time, arguing ...
The letters, which were published last week, were addressed to Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P) Chairperson Megawati Sukarnoputri, National Democrat Party (NasDem) Chairperson Surya Paloh, National Awakening Party (PKB) Chairperson Muhaimin Iskandar, Justice and Prosperity Party (PKS) President Ahmad Syaikhu and United Development Party (PPP) Chairperson Muhammad Mardiono. In ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emerald L King, Lecturer in Humanities, University of Tasmania IMDB Between Netflix’s 2023 live-action version of One Piece, and its latest take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, fans are once again asking: why are live-action anime adaptations so tricky to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emerald L King, Lecturer in Humanities, University of Tasmania IMDB Between Netflix’s 2023 live-action version of One Piece, and its latest take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, fans are once again asking: why are live-action anime adaptations so tricky to ...
The government says it still intends to deliver tax cuts by July, but will not lock them in until they have got them past their coalition partners. ...
Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
We have become a cruel, ugly and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.
‘Homeless people are finding themselves thousands of dollars in debt to Work and Income (Winz) for money loaned to them to stay in motels.
Winz will loan people money to rent out a motel room as emergency housing, when there is nowhere else to put them.
People then have to repay the debt, and many say that is just not possible.
Earlier this week, when asked what people living in cars or garages should do, Prime Minister John Key had a simple reply.
“My really strong advice is to go and see Work and Income,” he said, “and we’ll see what we can do, because I think people very often don’t understand what’s available to them.
“My experience with Work and Income is they do their very best to support people in those situations, especially when children are involved.”
He was talking to people like Nicole.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201801054
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/304122/homeless-borrow-thousands-for-motels
Shameful
Homeless and hoping no one comes into the car
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201801109
Good for the motel owners though. A bit of government payola to get them through the off season.
Have no fear, your best friends are .. perhaps counter inuitively .. Chinese apartment buyers.
http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/forward-planning/advice-and-hot-topics/china/53562-the-unpleasant-fallout-from-hitting-the-wonderful-chinese-apartment-buyers-who-could-fail-to-settle.html?utm_source=Property+Observer+List&utm_campaign=3c3a911b06-17_May_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a523fbfccb-3c3a911b06-245304489
That is just horrible, infact I’m struggling to find the words to describe how shit that is, 👿 Are the powers that be really just gutter trash loan sharks.. Ashamed of my country.
@ maui
+100
Loan sharks is an excellent description. The PM sends you to WINZ, WINZ sends you to a motel room you could never afford, and then WINZ cuts your benefit to repay the motel bill.
Labour, Greens, NZ First, Maori party:
Your job is to convince the public that Key, Anne Tolley, and Paula Bennett are callous vultures. Do it now!
Only people benefiting from this set up are the moteliers. I am starting to picture signs up at every second motel in Auckland with “We do WINZ quotes” signs at the door, similar to what happens in the US, where what passes for their welfare system supports an industry of small business owners who do things like cash welfare cheques, buy food stamps, etc.
But look over here……
There isn’t a housing crisis. Labour are just making it up.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11640259
And look over here…….
Selling our land to foreigners is good for our schools.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11640219
And look over here…….
The dairy industry is doing fine.
Milk prices have gone up.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11640259
War is Peace,
There is no housing crisis
Freedom is Slavery
Selling land to overseas buyers is good
Ignorance is Strength
The dairy industry is strong
“Believe us……… John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Go back to sleep New Zealand
John Key has everything under control
Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5
“That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.”
oh Yes ! quite definitely ……. a villain.
Yes Jenny K.@ 8.39am
As shown here on a clip I hadn’t seen. Perhaps it should be called a lullaby for the corrupt, featuring john key telling us in all sincerity that “I don’t recall.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Irk0GODh8
We had lots of success in the 80’s in our advocacy work getting these types of payments made non-recoverable.
Basic principles were immediate hardship, unaffordability to repay and exceptional circumstances to justify exceeding the usual limit.
Just had a look at WINZ’s policies which still seem to be similar to back then:
http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/advance-payment-of-benefit/other-sources-of-assistance-01.html
Other income assistance
You must check to see if the client qualifies for other assistance before granting an Advance Payment of Benefit. Consider:
Special Needs Grants where urgent assistance is needed to relieve immediate hardship
http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/advance-payment-of-benefit/immediate-and-essential-needs-01.html
Immediate and essential needs
In order for a client to be considered for an Advance Payment of Benefit they must be able to identify a particular immediate need for an essential item or service.
In determining if a particular immediate need exists, consider:
the effect on the client and partner or dependent children (if any) if the need is not met
when that effect might be expected to impact on that or those persons
the client’s ability to meet the need from his or her own resources
the assistance that is or might be available to the client from other sources or other Extra Help from Work and Income that may be available to the client to meet the particular immediate need
the client’s existing level of debt, and whether the rate of repayment of the proposed Advance of Benefit would be manageable considering:
whether the reduction of the amount of benefit payable will leave enough for the client’s living expenses and any other debt repayments and
the likelihood it would cause the client to seek further advances or other Extra Help
whether the client is likely to continue to be in receipt of the benefit for the period over which the Advance would be repayable and
any other matters put forward by the client to justify the advance
http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/special-needs-grant/other-emergency-grants-01.html
If the client meets all qualifications, they may be able to receive a Special Needs Grant for an item or service that is not specified if:
special circumstances exist and
they and/or their family would suffer serious hardship without the item or service
If you need help deciding whether to pay an emergency Special Needs Grant in these cases contact Helpline.
Payment
Unless exceptional circumstances exist, the maximum amount payable towards another emergency grant is $500.
A Special Needs Grant for other emergency grants may be recoverable or non-recoverable. To help you decide whether the Special Needs Grant should be repaid, consider:
the purpose of the grant
the nature of the needs
whether it would be fair in regards to other clients to require payment and
the effect on the client if they were required to repay the Special Needs Grant
Good info, thanks for sharing this.
An awful insight into insidious ideological brainwashing http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2016/04/13/3769182/students-bullying-splc-trump/
Neo-liberal thinking has made many people mean since the 1980s.
Look at our treatment of the poor….
“Neo-liberal thinking has made many people mean since the 1980s.
Look at our treatment of the poor….”
But that is the Ayn Rand paradise these Neo fuckwits have wet dreams over.
You mean the SPLC report on its own survey containing clear (and no doubt significant) self selection bias, and their attempt to put it forward as an indicative (eg typical) sample of american schools?
Yes Mandy that’s sad, not sure if one could thank you for that link, but you’re a good sole. 😉
It is also an awful insight into how societies fall under the spell of leaders like h1tler …
the similarities between 2016 America and 1930’s Germany are uncanny
and very very scary
+1
Exactly
As my daughter commented…….I wonder where John Key would be if his government policies re housing were in place when his mother applied for state housing……………he has certainly distanced himself from his beginnings, but ONLY thanks to other people giving him a hand up in hard times, he is despicable.
Paula Bennett is another outstanding example of having benefited from support now not available
“Once, I was one of them. I will never turn my back on that.” – John Key 2006
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/903605/2556418.xhtml
nice.
Key’s schmoozing the people (when getting the Leader of National Party) stage….. So good GS I had to post a bit more of the article….
“I think all New Zealanders would agree that the security, happiness and welfare of their family, which is also dependent on the security and welfare of their community and country, is the most precious thing to them.
“There will always be a social welfare system in New Zealand because you can measure a society by how it looks after its most vulnerable. Once I was one of them. I will never turn my back on that.”
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/903605/2556418.xhtml
Wow, whataguy
@whatevanext 6.58pm
re. whataguy. please watch clip at 2.1.1.1 but comes with x rated cert. for hideousness, so be warned (melody and singer’s voice are quite lovely in contrast to the subject matter though.)
And yes I can become totally deranged by this sorry specimen of a human being in the video.
Aye to that, beautifully done!
I could almost understand if they had never known hard times, but, but….what kind of person can think like this?
Where would the likes of Key & Bennett be without the ‘help’ the state afforded them. $1300 a week to stay at an ’emergency home’ that has to be paid back by beneficiaries receiving less than half that a week, how does that work? Reminds me of the U.S. practise of prisoners having to pay for their incarceration then jail them & charge them again when they cannot pay…How are people expected to get out of these traps!
It’s the biggest load of bollocks I have heard so far from these leeches, how do they sleep at night?
“Locked Out: How Can We Knock Down the Barriers to Afforadable Housing”
AMI Netball Centre, tonight 6.45, 44 Northcote Road
– Shamubeel Eeaqub
– Yvette Taylor
– Alex Johnston
– Phil Twyford
I hope this meeting is full to the brim.
Ask Phil Twyford if Labour is going to ban foreign based Chinese from owning NZ houses.
How about ” foreign based ” think that will cover it CV
I would have thought so as well.
But when Twyford helped design Labour’s “Chinese sounding last names” campaign last year, he distinctly failed to widen the media framing to include buyers from Europe, North America, South Africa, Australia, UK and Ireland, instead preferring to underline the Chinese part of the problem.
Twyford helped design.
Yes that was wrong, but at that moment in time they were right, disregarding those jacked up stat’s ,and of coarse labour did it too, New migrants overwhelmingly vote for the gov’t that let them in, so to speak.
The fifth Labour administration glowed for awhile with their intake. I do agree however their are a lot of white faces steering back at a more multi cultured mob of capitalists running the show now. 👿
Yeah, there’s a reason for that which basically comes down to Smith is the most common name in the English speaking world. Because of the lack of data on who’s buying houses it was only through focussing on uncommon names that anyone could have got an idea of the discrepancy between onshore buyers and offshore buyers.
It really wasn’t racist and it doesn’t take away from the fact that other nationalities are buying up our housing as well. It was simply the only way to show that offshore buyers are a large part of the problem. Unfortunately they didn’t then say that they’re going to outright ban offshore ownership.
so how come Twyford never once said: our data covers Chinese last names only, but to be clear, any foreign buyer regardless of nationality contributes to the problem.
He did.
Where did he make the explicit point that he wasn’t singling out Chinese?
Right in the fucken bolded part. I believe that there was other occasions as well where he was even more explicit.
I know you don’t want to believe it but it was done the way it was done because of the lack of data. That’s it, nothing less and nothing more. You and many others jumped on the RWNJ bandwagon and read more into it than was there.
LOL mate, and I guess the fact that the Labour caucus has not got a single Chinese, East Asian or South Asian/Indian MP (that’s a super region with about 3.5B people) is pure happenstance as well.
Whatever, Labour fucked themselves with “Chinese sounding last names” – it made the party of racial tolerance and ethnic diversity look and sound like the shallow political opportunists that they have become.
The icing on the cake for me was that this occurred just as Little and Labour were starting to poll over 30%. But after the Chinese sounding last names saga, they sank hard and never recovered, as the electorate saw through their hypocrisy, and decided to sit them on the 26% to 28% mark.
After all, Auckland housing became internationally ranked as “severely unaffordable” under Helen Clark’s reign.
Why don’t you go away and find some entitled middle class white people to explain to me what racism from the political elite looks and sounds like, cause clearly I have no idea.
Plenty on ‘the left’ have a huge blind spot when it comes to their xenophobia and/or racism. And, to be fair, plenty on ‘the left’ have other, huge blind spots too.
Twyford and those who defend that shit…you’re wasting your breath CV. Them’s is of the left and ipso facto, can’t be racist or xenophobic.
To be honest, it’s not the racism overt or discrete which worries me; especially given that the history of Chinese in NZ is replete with examples of official and unofficial racism. (Let alone what has happened in countries like Fiji, Australia, Malaysia, etc.)
It’s how low the Labour Party – the supposedly liberal broad church which values ethnic diversity and racial harmony – has collapsed in its search for a brief poll bump.
And the stupidity of some supposedly politically astute people in thinking that NZ Chinese like myself, Raybon Kan, Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok and others, shouldn’t exercise our agency and push right back.
“It’s how low the Labour Party – the supposedly liberal broad church which values ethnic diversity and racial harmony – has collapsed in its search for a brief poll bump.”
You are surprised? how many examples of poor decision making have we seen from Labour since Clark was ousted?….they have been rudderless since.
don’t know the numbers (suspect no one does) but think its pretty safe bet to say that Queenstown’s (and central in general) property inflation has been driven by foreign investment, and little of that would be Chinese in origin….unrestricted access for the worlds money looking for a home was always going to be problematic in a low wage economy like NZ.
Yep. I’d expect that that area would be dominated by the US/UK rich listers.
that would be my guess, with the odd euro, aussie or asian ….had been priced out of most Kiwis price range well before the Chinese entered the market.
I will be attending. Perhaps you could knock up a post afterwards Ad so we can have an all round discussion on what the guests had to say.
I have very little time for Shamubeel Eeaqub, after hearing him in person at a council meeting in Auckland (while he was living in Wellington) make excuse after excuse for why we should not care about rising housing costs.
“If people can’t buy – they can rent” was his theme.
There were several pertinent questions from the audience that he replied to by avoiding the question.
His current mode is more concerned, but that is because he is now an Aucklander. But he is still very restrained in what housing solutions are available, and I have not seen him show meaningful effective solutions for those whose housing has hit crisis mode.
I really don’t understand why he is trotted out so often as an economic spokesperson.
I’ve had trouble warming to Shamubeel Eeqaub, despite his apparent popularity. I recall during the GFC years he failed to criticise the government over it’s inaction on economic resilience and assistance to those struggling – they carried on with a BAU approach.
Rather Shamubeel Eequab referred to the individual being responsible for their problems and suggested people make cut backs in their luxury spending without realising people weren’t spending on luxuries, as they were losing jobs, couldn’t find adequate affordable housing, and the places that once supplied those luxuries, like a meal out, where closing down anyway.
I remember him saying something, “do allow your self the occasional treat. Mrs Eeqaub splashes out on a new nail polish now and then”. It was so very patronising and an out of touch statement.
Maybe’s he’s more on to it now days. I don’t know.
PS: re the “if you can’t afford to buy you can rent” theme. That’s fairly redundant. Looking at the rental increases lately, some of them are the up at the same price as paying off a hefty mortgage. The average weekly rental of a not very spectacular 3 bdr in Wellington is now nearly the same as we pay on our massive mortgage.
I had an argument with him on Twitter a few months back when he came up with the idea that all of Auckland’s golf courses be turned into housing. It was a purely ‘economic’ argument that he made along the lines of: Golf courses are large and expensive to maintain and only the rich use them but if we turned them into housing we’d both decrease council spending on them and increase ratepayers and so be able to reduce rates.
He obviously did not understand that a city actually needs the large green spaces in them. Sure, turn them into parks that everyone can enjoy rather than just a bunch of people swinging clubs but keep the bloody things.
To me his recent ‘transformation’ into a caring economist is almost subconscious. Subconsciously he’s realised that the economics he was taught at university and which has made him quite well off doesn’t work but he’s still clinging on to it. He’s got a few more years to go to full conscious realisation and he may never get there.
Actually, it’s pretty close to being fraudulent. As a renter you’re paying off someone’s mortgage and their profit.
It’s lazy thinking when people see green space and equate it with “housing problem solved”. They don’t consider the consequences of loss of green space, environmentally and socially or see housing accessibility being tied to other factors such as market regulation, taxation regulation or stagnant wages, social issues around proximity to work, transport and business hubs and the high cost of living.
Interesting observation of S.E’s apparent evolution into a more compassionate approach towards economics.
“He obviously did not understand that a city actually needs the large green spaces in them.”
much like his “zombie towns” thing – where he utterly failed to note that many of them are a shorter drive to a big center than the average AK commute, and that people who live there either create their own employment or… commute
He’s being groomed as a judas goat – as Bennett was.
Be interested to hear if anyone challenges Twyford for backing sprawl today, and asks him who will pay for the increased infrastructure it demands compared with density.
In all the discussions around the environment, we hardly or if at all talk about animal farming. In all the discussions around water, animal farming is tagged on, but not really challenged.
To all the farmers who produce fruits, vegetables, pulses and grains. Just remember you are the righteous ones, and I thank you for everything you do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWHUmRzNBA
This trailer for the film Cowspiracy says it all:
Animal agriculture responsible for 91% of Amazon rainforest clearance; produces a higher GHG effect than all fossil fueled vehicles added together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1z1taw6yNw
Cowspiracy is a vegan propaganda film with poor references. There are serious issues with how we farm animals, including animal welfare, resource use and pollution issues. Cowspiracy isn’t a good source of information in that debate.
It’s essentially a documentary about making a documentary on corporate farming.
The promo video is defiantly propaganda, but all such trailers are. Good on them about being honest about their vegan view point.
The movie itself, is more of a interesting ride, with the NGO and state sector being exposed to corporate compliance. Also the difficulty in filming and asking hard questions about the industry. So if that propaganda, so be it.
Greenplease are not happy for sure. They come across as looking weak, money grubbing, and dithers. I’ve been saying for years them and their friends at the World Wide Fund for Nature are corporate lackeys. Look at the T-TIP grand expose from greenplease, decidedly a non-event. They played right into corporate hands.
So what exactly is the problem about talking about the fact animal farming, at least in this country, has virtually destroyed our water quality? Too soon?
Nothing. That’s a daft question tbh adam. It’s not like the vegans are the only people seriously concerned, or taking action.
The problem with the film Cowspiracy is that it’s core thesis is that being vegan is better than eating meat and dairy. That’s patently ideological and it skews everything else they present. People need to eat what is local, and if that is small amounts of meat then that’s actuall fine. Most vegans eat highly processed, industrial foods are also hugely problematic for the planet including in terms of CC. I have absolutlely no problem with the industrialised world being told to eat less meat and dairy. But when the ideology is stop eating those foods no matter what, you end up getting a worse than useless message. If addressing CC and other urgent environmental issues was about finding substitutes so we can carry on with our excessive lifestyles, then going vegan might make some kind of sense in terms of possibly mitigating damage. But it’s a nonesense in terms of shifting societies to actual sustainability. There is nothing sustainable about most vegan diets.
I thought the stuff with Greenpeace as obviously a set up, but they’re big people they can handle it. Much more interesting to me was the reviews I read from the regenerative agriculture people, the people who are actually practicing what they preach. This is where it came out that the references Cowspiracy were using were poor and/or skewed.
I’ve critiqued it before. There are far better ways to be addressing Western consumption,
There’s nothing wrong with dairy farming, it’s how we’re doing it. Cowspiracy is a fundamentalist vegan film that doesn’t support its assertions very well. It also seems to be comparing industrial stock farming with industrial agriculture and deciding that industrial agriculture is best. Both are highly polluting and destroy ecologies. Swapping one for the other out of ideological concerns just creates different problems, what we need to do instead is make all farming sustainable and regenerative. (that should probably read horticulture)
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02052015/#comment-1008824
Heard this observation being made the other day in a podcast interview of a vegan turned hunter. He pointed out that although there are definitely cultures that have thrived on an intergenerational vegetarian diet, he wasn’t aware of a single one that had based its diet on veganism.
And there’s also the fact that veganism can and often does cause more environmental degradation that other options.
I love eating meat but even I have to admit that the land required to raise a just a handful of cows would sustainably provide all the vegetable based nutrition needed for 50 or 100 families.
That depends entirely on what you are growing and where. If you look at protein alone, the amount of plant protein needed to sustain a population intergenerationally is the first big challenge. It’s all very well for 20 something men to go vegan, but it’s much harder through pregnancy, birth and breast feeding, which is why there are not cultures that do it. You might get a few women able to do that, but all women over subsequent generations, it’s just really hard. And much much harder in the power down when you don’t have beans and nuts being shipped to you from all over the world.
The most productive agriculture with the least impact I know utilises animals into polyculture (some traditional Chinese systems are probably some of the most sustainable on the planet for dense populations and were done for thousands of years). Monocropping wheat, soy, sheep or dairy cows is always going to be wrong. More sustainable cultures eat less meat, but they still eat some and they eat the whole animal (not just the meat). We are so far from being efficient it’s not funny.
the land required to raise a just a handful of cows would sustainably provide all the vegetable based nutrition needed for 50 or 100 families.
If you grow grain to feed cows with like some kind of idiot, then sure. If you grow cows by feeding them grass, like we did up until recently, then no, that’s not true at all. The fact that the world has an over-supply of idiots feeding grain to cows is a problem with idiots, not animal farming per se.
I agree, Especially on the way we are farming. What the point of farming on a industrial level, when industrial farming is the problem.
I’m not a vegan, nor do I support it. As it stands, it will just mean swapping one corporate master for another. So at some point, we collectively need to ask what is best practice? I think you ask that.
But my initial point was not cowspiracy by the way, even though they are the people being talked to, in the “Days of Revolt” video. It’s about the fact the corporate dominance is everywhere. And in food, it has been very insidious problem. It is just at the point of animal farming, we can see how much of a problem it has become. And how one aspect of industrial farming, is feeding another part of industrial farming and the population has no input to this debate.
Even farmers themselves are being deprived of participating in that debate.
Fair enough adam.
To me it looks like the same old shit as all the other fucked up things we are doing. Greed and selfishness and disconnection.
One of the biggest challenges in NZ is how farmers who want to change can do so and still have a viable business. It looks to me like most are tied into systems that are very hard to get out of, esp if they have big debt.
Good on them about being honest about their vegan view point.
I’ve no problem with someone following a vegan diet – hell, I was vegan for some years. Do you watch ‘Game of Thrones’ and know the character ‘Sparrow’? That’s how far too many vegans approach the world – as holier than thou, judgmental arseholes.
(Apologies for making a reference to a piece of pop culture that not everyone will be able to pick up on)
I also have no problem with someone choosing a vegan diet, unless they start making inaccurate claims about their impact on the planet.
Effectively you do have a problem with vegans then, because the ones that don’t peddle bullshit about their impact on the planet are few and far between.
lol. I think the prosletysing ones are just more visible (like fundamentalists of all kinds). I’ve definitely known vegans who don’t push it.
The big problem with Cowspiracy is that it’s a load of bollocks and lies.
Know how there was a system in balance that included (I don’t know) hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of ruminants? The problem is CO2 from fossil fuel has knocked that equilibrium to hell in a handbasket.
That’s not to suggest that land use isn’t a contributory factor now that we’ve shafted everything, but really…
Worth remembering that the “system in balance” you refer to included no more than ~0.5B population for all of human history except the last 500-600 years.
Way back in 2006 the UN had this to say about the issue:
How much CO2e do you think the huge herds of wilderbeast, buffalo and what not produced? I don’t know if there are more cows now than there ever was wild herds, but the point remains that it’s fossil related CO2 that has destroyed the equilibrium.
And again. I’m not suggesting that land use, with all the accompanying destruction of eco-systems that probably dealt with shit and what not n a natural environment, isn’t a problem.
Estimates are 30M to 60M bison killed by the North American settlers.
In comparison, NZ with a tiny fraction of the land area is home to 6M cows and 30M sheep.
Interestingly the great plains (now the dustbowl) were built and sustained by bison. Annually they consumed a small portion of growth and trampled the rest into the ground, causing an increase in water retention and fertility the next years crop was corrospondingly bigger and the cycle continued untill the topsoil (mostly made of carbon) was metres deep representing many gazillion of tons of carbon retained.
the most important fact from this story is that it is far more effective and quicker to capture carbon by allowing “weeds” and incorporating them into the soil than any other scheme so far devised. And so doing actually increases the productive capacity of land for food. (Once we let go of plow, poison , spray, fertilise, monoculture as “the only way to make enought food”)
Properly organised humans have the ability to sequester shitloads of carbon quite quickly and live better lives for it.
There is nothing (except interest payments) to stop a dairy farmer from managing their cows in a manner analagous to the bison of the great plains, doing the science, claiming the carbon credits, improving land and water quality, and… producing milk and meat.
It would be “uneconomic” but that would seem to be the only downside!
Am completely on board re that kind of farming. A few caveats though. I’ve seen some big claims re amounts of carbon sequestered but not much actual evidence yet. The evidence is there for building soil, but not so much for quantities of carbon captured.
I really hope it doesn’t get tied into carbon credits. We need sustainable economics too.
Do you think that big plains system would work for dairying? I’ve seen it for cattle, but not animals that need to be brought in and milked every day or twice a day. There is something problematic about all that foot traffic anyway, and it doesn’t mimic the natural systems which were cyclical over the year and perennial grass/weed growth rates.
thats why i claimed “gazillions” of tons 🙂 but notwithstanding that I am quietly confident in claiming 1 that the topsoil of the great plains was meters deep and 2 that it was predominatly made of carbon. I dont actually know of studies of “soil sequesture of carbon” any links appreciated.
An important side issue that should not be overlooked is water retention and silt retention , if you have a highly structured soil composed of organic material “meters deep” you can dump a significant part of a meter of water and retain most of it and almost all of any silt and nutrients in that water, water being the number one limiter/enabler of plant growth, the potential for increased production in areas of seasonally uneaven precipitation (most places!) is huge! obviously this is important in terms of resiliancy to climate change events.
As for dairying consider that 1 trampling (up to a point) is essential to the process and 2 maby milking dosnt have to be centralised to the extent that it is now.
We’ve had quite a few conversations in the past about this. I’ve looked for the numbers on sequestration, there is some research being done but nothing definitive yet. My own view is that it doesn’t matter what the research says because we should be transitioning to these kinds of agriculture anyway. And we still need to reduce emissions.
Here’s a few links,
http://thestandard.org.nz/peak-soil/#comment-995897
One of the best explanations (from an expert) on soil carbon sequestration and what works and what doesn’t at the soil level,
http://thestandard.org.nz/the-greens-climate-change-policy/#comment-823933
http://thestandard.org.nz/act-thinks-the-ipcc-is-scaremongering/#comment-793032 (and a bit down the thread Lynn talks about why he thinks it won’t work. I don’t agree with him, but it’s good to see the arguments from a geological perspective).
I’ve seen something recently on reforesation, esp regenerating forest and how much carbon it sequesters. Thinking now seems to be changing on this and it’s being seen as meaningful in terms of quantity. I’ll see if I can find a link.
Totally with you on soil and water too (been banging away at the one here too, esp everytime the media starts talking about drought).
Re dairying, yes trampling is part of the process but not in a confined area in a confined space of time. You may be right and that it would work with smaller, localised farms. A house cow or 3 in every neighbourhood too 😉 Can’t do industrial, export dairy though.
From my perspective, the corporate industrial farming model is a major contributor to CO2 emissions. Everything in the chain from production to delivery. As Rosie said below, the fact they think it economic to ship oats half way around the world is just madness, and a waste of resources.
So, prioritise making our energy system fossil free. We have to do that right now anyway regardless of any land use issue. That knocks a lump out of the emissions you’re attaching to ag.
Do that and it doesn’t matter a toss if somebody wants to transport oats half way around the world. Also, do that and market economics may no longer be viable – no big deal to my mind and probably a very good side effect of doing the right thing 😉
Meanwhile and in concert…
Radically reconfigure agriculture – replace the industrial models with more sane methods and systems.
Cows in NZ? Do we even need 10% of the numbers we have? Whatever, time to get our shit together. I think everyone commenting on this is on the same page, yes?
“Do that and it doesn’t matter a toss if somebody wants to transport oats half way around the world.”
I think it does matter. From a CC perspective, we have to reduce everything we can, and given there will be some who won’t and that we’re already very late to the party, then adopting eat local is one of the easiest ways we can of shifting to a low carbon economy. Even if we transition shipping to sail instead of diesel, there are still all the other miles to and from port (in NZ food miles within the country are worse than the ones to get food to NZ from overseas).
It’s also a fundamental of sustainability. I think the case can be made for shipping some things (coffee, spices, medicines, rare materials), but in general the whole shipping economy is inherently unsustainable. What is the carbon and other environmental cost of manufacturing a freight liner? And all the other industry that has to exist around that? I’m also wondering if the economics don’t stack up in the same way as with airlines (the more we use them the more airports they keep building and thus the necessity to sell more tickets etc).
imo the whole issue is primarily one of overpopulation of the human race…this is where we should start
…meat eating did not used to be a problem
1.) …countries, cultures and religions( which call for over- population eg male dominated Catholic Church) …which overpopulate must be called to account ( we all know which countries are overpopulated )
( Western countries have not increased their populations for some time and in fact many are decreasing in population…well- educated women with equal opportunities for education and jobs do not over-breed…overpopulation is a feminist issue)
2.) …world economics and capitalist values must have a different idea of what constitutes quality of life and morality …it isnt consumerist wealth and it isnt growth at all costs
3.) the values of the planet and sustainability of the planet Earth /Gaia/ Papatuanuku must be paramount
( we must eat and live frugally…rampant consumerism should be frowned upon…animal rights like human rights, indigenous peoples’ rights , and women’s rights to control their lives and reproduction must be paramount)
NZ has specialised in selling animal products to people who don’t need them. We have our own set of culpabilities.
And we probably have more people that we can sustain too. Population is an issue for industrialised countries. NZ is currently using something lke 2.5 x the resources available.
In terms of fossil related CO2, if our energy system is fossil free – that includes all transport – it really doesn’t matter. You wanna sail or float whatever where-ever? Fine. Seriously.
As the rest of my comment above suggests, given the other changes that we have to make at the same time, and given the likely effect on the global market economy of all the changes, the chances are no-one will want to.
“Cows in NZ? Do we even need 10% of the numbers we have?”
Inspired by b waghorn’s figures, here’s my back of the enveloppe calculation,
7,000,000 dairy cows in NZ, producing 15L/day (should be less than that and not all year round if done without fossil fuels) = 105,000,000L/day
NZ population 4.5M, using 1L milk/day (milk, cheese, yog etc) = 4,500,000 L/day.
That’s 4.2%
Your calculations are in the right ballpark I reckon.
Fonterra ships 250,000 to 300,000 tonnes of milk powder overseas.
PER MONTH
To all the farmers who produce fruits, vegetables, pulses and grains. Just remember you are the righteous ones…
Oh great, farming as a question of religious purity – that’ll really help.
What is profiting from the sickness and death of people and the environment, if not a religious or spiritual matter?
I thought we were talking about farming?
What about the righteous farmers who produce fruit, vegetables, pulses and grains and then sell these as animal feed to other farmers. Are they still righteous?
Shows you did not watch the video, that comment there nadis.
+1
Or the ones using GE and roundup ready mono crops. I’ll eat local, organic meat over imported monsanto soy any day.
It’s not what you grow, it’s how you grow it that matters.
If all else fails go for the scear debate? And you said earlier that the video was nothing more than propaganda – Then weka I’m calling you for doing the same. Sheesh, talk about spin. Who said, not to grow local, it’s not corporate support going on here.
This is anti-corporate, but sure spin it away to some sort of what ever it is you are doing.
Who, in the video was defending one aspect of the corporate sector verse another? Please any point in the video? It was having go at this one aspect of farming, which people rush to defend, by any means necessary it seems…
Adam – go through a typical, thoughtful vegan diet. Strip out everything that was grown overseas using industrial monoculture practices, or processed using highly industrial processes and son on. What’s left? A viable diet? I don’t think so.
And balance up various alternatives, with regards environmental impact, both within and beyond the limits of veganism.
Y’know, things like potatoes versus rice or soy versus wild meat…
My argument was around the original video, and the corporate take over of the food chain. As I said above, swapping one corporate overlord for another based on diet, is in my eyes – stupidity of the highest order.
And no I don’t support a vegan diet. A vegan meal or two a week be a nice change. Or vegetarian meals two or three times a week. Affordable fruit and veggies, rather than them being inflated by corporate industrial farming of animals – would be nice as well.
And wild meat, personally, the only way to go.
On corporate take-over of the food chain – you been aware of the apparently successful lobbying by Fonterra these past few years to kill off farmgate sales? The legislation clamping down on small, possibly quite ‘on to it’, possibly organic producers of dairy, is getting ridiculously restrictive.
Last I heard (a few weeks back) was that, whereas some delivery to pick-up point had been allowed if the milk was placed in some cooler or fridge arrangement, new legislation was knocking that on the head. Think about this. It’s only a few years back that ‘industrial’ milk was dropped on peoples’ doorsteps in the middle of the afternoon.
Go back over the last few years and you’ll find a smattering of stories about the supposed health dangers of consuming dairy from those same small producers.
Ah monopoly, the fundamental flaw no capitalist is willing to admit.
Just another example of corporate madness. Yes I’m aware.
Here an odd story which may make you mad. A person I know makes cheese at home, they would get on their motorcycle and go down country to get farm fresh organic milk from the gate.
They last time they did this, they were told, they could not buy the milk as they were on a motorcycle. Something about a local by-law, or some such.
Hmmm, is that the raw milk issue? Or are you saying that the laws have changed around pasteurised milk sales too?
The previous law said you could sell 5 (or 8?) litres of raw milk per person per day from the gate. You couldn’t transport it, and you couldn’t make products from it and sell them. Lots of buying and selling was being done under the radar as people found ways around that.
The new laws are better and worse, after a long consulation process (by MAF I think). It’s now easier to sell raw milk (and buy it). But producers have to prove they have safe practices, and that costs them (they have to have a plan and do testing I think). Hard on really small producers, but if we want to be shipping raw milk it’s essential. Raw milk can contain pathogens that can make humans very sick. That’s why we have pastuerisation.
And yeah, there is some hooha about where and when raw milk can be sold and buyers having to be registered. What they’re worried about is if they get an outbreak of ecoli etc that they can trace it back to the farm and that they can trace from the farm to other buyers. It’s not an unreasonable public health perspective, but they’re not being very smart in how they manage it.
I can’t categorically state whether it was pasteurised milk or not. But I doubt if it was raw if it was already illegal to transport raw milk to a point of sale.
edit: see comment below macro below
The laws on raw milk sales changed last year. Before you couldn’t transport, how you can. But there are rules on how you can transport. You can still sell from the gate. The law is an improvement in that all the people buying raw milk before can now do so illegally. Most were doing so illegally up until recently.
It is still available – Just. Pretty much what weka is saying.
We get ours from http://www.livemilk.co.nz/
It’s delivered on a weekly basis and stored in fridges at the local Bin Inn here.
An excellent product. Won’t drink the Fonterra crap. Especially the way the conventional dairy herd of today is treated and fed.
Massey University zoology student Ruby Mammone got her raw milk from Gorge Fresh Organics, which used a system of chilled collection depots to distribute its milk. That distribution method will soon be illegal.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/300188/are-new-milk-rules-a-raw-deal-for-allergy-sufferers
and
Only farmgate sales and home deliveries of raw milk would be allowed from November. Some farmers said the new regulations could drive as many as half those selling raw milk out of the business.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/300112/minister-stands-firm-on-raw-milk-rules
yeah, MAF or the MPI or whoever fucked it up. But the law change last year (or the year before) was an improvement. Prior to then the only legal way to sell/buy raw milk was 8L/day per person at the gate. Nothing else was legal.
I’m guessing that what happened was they changed the law and a whole bunch of producers went legit and now the MPI are tightening up again abit in response to what those bigger commercial companies are doing (if it was the smaller companies, it would probably be less of an issue). It’s still an improvement (long time raw milk buyer here). The big problem IMO is the cost of putting in food safety plans for very small producers.
I’m opposed to big companies selling raw milk commercially via conventional supply chains. It’s just more capitalism, trying to make money instead of producing safe, local, low emissions food. If we want unindustrialised food, then we need to have non-industrial supply, not big industrial and polluting supply chains that for this product at least are unsafe.
Unfortunately some of the smaller producers are going to get hit but not all, there is still scope to sell raw milk using other models. Eg you could have a dairy farm of 20 cows, bottle the milk, and then sell it at the gate if you are on a main road, or deliver to your customers if not. That’s probably still better than the big supply chain system that moves food huge distances.
That crisis seems to have been avoided bill – as weka explained above. We are still receiving our milk on a regular basis. In fact have some in the fridge right now.
Actually home delivery is not an improvement as the need to keep the milk at below 4 Degrees cannot be assured when delivering. Better to have a collection point. This point was made by many to the committee considering the matter last year.
It’s also about time of year and climate. I’ll leave raw milk out at room temperature and let it naturally sour, so the refrigeration is a moot point for me personally (and I’ll only buy from people I know and trust because of that). But we’re now talking about industrial systems and I don’t have too much of a problem with public safety being prioritised.
Prior to the first law change I’ve bought milk that was delivered to a suburb and kept in someone’s fridge and you picked it up from there. Was the MPI’s original idea that it could be left at each person’s gate?
“It’s delivered on a weekly basis and stored in fridges at the local Bin Inn here.”
That’s going to change this year though right? Farm sales or home deliveries only? Although later they are talking about registered Depots. FFS, if they can’t even get their message straight on their website…
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/industry/sectors/dairy/raw-milk/
I do feel sorry for the small producers who put money into infrastructure and systems to have the law changed on them again so soon.
same link,
Previously, the law restricted sales of raw milk to the farm, with a limit of five litres per person. The previous raw milk policy did not adequately regulate the production, supply, and sale of raw milk and led to a number of issues that the law never anticipated, such as collection points.
MPI conducted extensive public consultation on raw milk policy in 2011 and 2014. A summary and analysis of the submissions MPI received during the consultation period and a report on a 2014 survey of buying, selling and consuming raw milk can be found here:
Proposed options for the sale of raw milk to consumers
After announcing the raw milk policy and during the drafting of the regulations, MPI engaged with sellers of raw milk on the technical details of these requirements in a series of workshops to ensure they can be practically implemented.
The Government has undertaken to review this raw milk policy two years after full implementation (November 2018) to ensure that it works effectively in practice.
If all else fails go for the scear debate? And you said earlier that the video was nothing more than propaganda – Then weka I’m calling you for doing the same. Sheesh, talk about spin. Who said, not to grow local, it’s not corporate support going on here.
It’s not spin though adam. I’m glad we got to talk about what you perceive as the problem (industrial farming). It’s just that for me Cowspiracy is worse than useless (for reasons explained).
This is anti-corporate, but sure spin it away to some sort of what ever it is you are doing.
I think the problem is how you framed it at the start,
In all the discussions around the environment, we hardly or if at all talk about animal farming. In all the discussions around water, animal farming is tagged on, but not really challenged.
To all the farmers who produce fruits, vegetables, pulses and grains. Just remember you are the righteous ones, and I thank you for everything you do.
I often talking about animal farming and the environment and have said plainly that I think it’s a huge part of the water issues in NZ. And there are plenty of farmers doing bad shit growing plants too. So it was hard not to respond to your apparent statement that plant farming good, animal farming bad. I really don’t see it that way.
Who, in the video was defending one aspect of the corporate sector verse another? Please any point in the video? It was having go at this one aspect of farming, which people rush to defend, by any means necessary it seems…
I haven’t watched the video. Seriously, if they’re interviewing the Cowspiracy guys I’m probably not going to. That’s how bad I think they are.
Another thing to consider is all the palm production in south east Asia. Huge amount of forest have been burnt off in Indonesia to make way for palm plantations. Orang-utans, who are tree dwelling primates who can’t live on the ground, die and their babies are orphaned. The forest fires contribute to green house gases and to top it all off NZ dairy farmers, despite our small size, are the biggest consumers of palm kernel on the planet. We are part of the problem.
This is not a righteous cropping industry.
Given the destructive nature of cropping around the world to do with irrigation, water rights, (and territorial issues like Israel taking Palestinian land and water to grow vege) land clearance, loss of natural habitat, introduction of GE cropping and the monopoly big agri business like mansanto have over both the developed and economically developing world, there isn’t alot of cropping that is righteous.
Not that I would use the word righteous. Sounds religious and it’s too black and white.
Locally produced GE free fruit vege and grain cropping however can be sustainable and productive. Hard in a global market though. Eg, we once use to grow organic oats in Canterbury. They were marketed by Harroways. Over the years they dropped off production as cheap organic oats imported from Canada came into the country at almost half the price.
Industrial food production can’t be seen as righteous in any sense.
I agree Rosie, the corporate model is so flawed, and interconnected we need to raise our voices in protest to it.
And the reason that we are the biggest consumers of palm kernel is that our dairy farmers have vastly overstocked NZ land, in an effort to repay the hugely uneconomic mortgages the banks allowed them to ask for and take out.
Locally produced GE free fruit vege and grain cropping however can be sustainable and productive. Hard in a global market though. Eg, we once use to grow organic oats in Canterbury. They were marketed by Harroways. Over the years they dropped off production as cheap organic oats imported from Canada came into the country at almost half the price.
Southland and Otago too. I think farmers in NZ could get better prices for other crops which they are of course exporting (organic farmer anyway). It’s a high level of disconnect from the reality of the physical world.
Yep, if we’d chosen to be genuinely green as opposed to pretend green we’d have a bigger export market, especially into Europe. Our geographical isolation has upsides in terms of GE free borders and reduced disease threat as well as the benefit of using organic agricultural techniques. We’ve lost opportunities on so many levels, more than trade, but I don’t think it’s too late, yet.
Hi adam. Are you talking about authors and commenters on TS when you talk and “we”? Or in a broader sense?
If you’re talking about TS, farmed animal welfare has been fairly well aired over the years, both by authors, such as John Darroch of Farmwatch, and TS commenters in general.
The discussions have mostly been valuable and thoughtful.
Broad “we”.
Agree Rosie, the discussions have been great.
As water quality is going down the gurgler, and climate change upon us. The debate need to be kept rolling.
I’d like to point out that with the “we in NZ can do nothing about climate change” brigade banging on and on. NZ can actually do something quite significant. We could end animal farming.
Thanks adam. I’m a pescetarian, formerly a vego for 30 years so am on your side.
Agree whole heartedly we need to keep talking about animal welfare and the impact animal farming has on our environment directly, and it’s contribution to GHG emissions. The three big issues.
I’d be happy to see a massive reduction in dairying and meat production from an ethical viewpoint but I’m in a minority. I think those that choose to purchase free range or wild meat and organically produced dairy are also in the minority. So those who are big consumers of these products need to be the ones who demand change – a mass movement.
I don’t think we will get a mass movement. Not going to happen in this country, to much baggage.
It will take a group like the abolitionists, small, popularly despised, but on the right side of history. Working to end animal farming, for the good of humankind.
Sadly, thats true. There will never be a mass call for humane and environmentally sound farming practices in THIS country.
And despite my own beliefs I wouldn’t call for an outright end to animal farming. I think that’s too idealistic. Judge not?
I get the feeling from animal rights activists, and I’m happy to be corrected, that the priority is to end inhumane farming practices, full stop, not farming itself. I think they accept people will always consume meat and dairy.
From the climate change perspective, farming comes under the umbrella of all harmful human behaviours and practices.
“There will never be a mass call for humane and environmentally sound farming practices in THIS country.”
On the farm I look after there is an old cowshed , the channel for the washdown water goes directly to the river, if you did that now you would be getting fined out of the game.
There is still improvements to be made yes but to say there is no pressure to improve things is bs
I’m not saying there’s no pressure, I’m well aware of the work various NGO’s have been doing behind the scenes to put political pressure on governments.
But any improvements have been hard won, there’s a long way to go and these NGO’s are still only a minority. If it weren’t for groups like these you’d still be letting the wash down water into the river, (or should I say there would be no law against it, not your personal compulsion specifically) but it’s no thanks to consumer pressure.
Consumer pressure is mass pressure.
Yes. We could end animal farming and…many people would get sick and some would die while the overall population would become less and less healthy and resilient.
End industrial farming by all means. But as I commented above, it seems no-one can point to any culture at any point in history that has survived or thrived on a vegan diet.
You met vegans with huge B12 deficiency? I have. They are very, very unwell people who are killing themselves, with serious brain damage thrown in along the way.
B12, if it’s going to be taken up by the body, has to come from some place other that fruit, grain and veg.
I’d never become vegan; as you point out its an easy way to screw your body at a fundamental level.
But if we are talking about good health, cutting back your weekly intake of red meat to roughly a quarter kilogram a week is a beautiful and easy thing to do.
Whoops that’s just one steak dinner for some people.
Nope I think ending animal farming is the go. Then turn all that land back to commons.
Let the sheep, deer, cows, pigs, goats, and other animals do as they will in these spaces. So then we can hunt them. They taste better, wild venison is lovely, as is wild pork.
We clear – I’m no vegan.
Dairy from a roaming animal? I mean sure, it can be done and some cultures still do it, though they do keep herds, so the animals aren’t quite wild or free.
As for letting sheep and goats run riot…I’m from Scotland and Scotland was covered in forest right up until….(drum roll) sheep. And it’s not just that tree cover was cut down, nothing has a chance to regenerate if sheep and goats are around. And much the same with red deer.
Wild cows, like pigs, are incredibly dangerous wee beasties.
And none of those animals fit with NZs ecology.
Maybe it could be done in Europe and elsewhere…alongside reintroducing the relevant predator species, but in NZ? Thinking it’s a bad idea. There is already enough wild meat out there causing damage that is hunted without deliberately adding to the numbers.
How about, apart from animals being farmed for dairy, we eat rabbits and chickens that many of us can have in our own back yards? Isn’t that a better option than letting a whole pile of sheep, goats etc free reign?
You forgot possum. We use to eat that, till it got infected with TB. TB from farmed cows wasn’t it?
The semi wild semi farmed herds of cattle sound like a good idea.
Plus I was being a bit glib, as I was thinking we already have a whole lot of goat, deer, pigs and sheep wandering free – I just wanted more commons.
But sure why not with more chickens and rabbits in the back yard, and more community gardens where we can do it too.
Wool and leather are very good products to have, esp in this climate.
Animals also bring multiple benefits to plant growing systems, from being able to clear invasive plants to providing manure.
http://permaculturenews.org/2013/01/24/integrating-livestock-in-the-food-forest/
Have you any idea about how fucking dangerous feral cattle, or indeed any feral animal, are, because you know, testosterone-driven bachelor males, what could possible go wrong?.
Any reason you can’t cull the males?
nope, farming
or how much damage a tenfold (or more) increase in the number of idiots armed with high powered rifles in the bush would cause…..dosn’t bear thinking about.
It doesn’t have to be a free for all. I’m treating the suggestion as a thought experiment. If we were eating less meat and didn’t need to do industrial export farming for profit what would our relationship with meat animals look like. Adam is talking about animals in a less controlled situation as a way of improving the land. The roaming herd thing appears to be a key factor in both regenerating soil and sequestering carbon (reference Alan Savory). This could be done on land with controlled access.
The other aspect is reducing animal suffering by avoiding the freezing works (and the whole economic rort that exists in that system and seriously limits what farmers can do). The omega oils ratio in wild animals is better for humans health wise than farmer animals.
I tend to think that domesticated farming is easier but more damaging. I suspect that adam’s idea of letting land revert and animals free range could be done without the herd going feral.
http://permaculturenews.org/2014/10/09/intensive-silvopasture-win-win-carbon-yield/
http://www.grazeonline.com/treespasturetogether
lols. “Letting sheep run riot”. They can be “incredibly dangerous wee beasties” too 🙂
I did some impromptu sheep herding the other day as a few sheep from the neighbouring farm got free on to the development. The poor terrified thing got trapped in a house under construction, got freaked out and headed towards me at a million miles. Had to jump out of the way as she would have knocked me down and winded me.
The cows get out too sometimes and I gently herd the girls back to the farm, call the council blah blah blah, a familiar process, but I leave the bulls alone. I wait till the farmer comes out and hope the bull doesn’t make it to the main streets. Been chased enough by bulls and the odd mad ram in my life to know when to leave well alone.
I have some admiration for sheep. Any time I’ve tried to get them to do anything they’ve usually out-stubborned me.
And they can also make good companions for humans. They are full of personality when we let them be themselves. Who couldn’t love such an adorable face?
I’m a big fan of their wool and the products we can make from their milk. In fact, our treat meal of the week was a falafel and sheep milk houloumi burger tonight. $5.20 for 150gm of NZ produced sheep houloumi at New World and a meal for two. More expensive than other proteins but cheaper than fish.
Cows were once the new sheep but hopefully in the future sheep will reclaim their place as most loved farmed animal in Nu Zuland.
And goats. We need to take them more seriously. They are a very good dairy animal with less environmental impact than cows.
Nope I think ending animal farming is the go. Then turn all that land back to commons.
Let the sheep, deer, cows, pigs, goats, and other animals do as they will in these spaces. So then we can hunt them. They taste better, wild venison is lovely, as is wild pork.
I haven’t caught up on the whole thread yet, but that’s an interesting idea. I don’t think all animal farming. Dairy, wool and leather are the obvious examples. But I do think some part of NZ could be regenerated into productive poly cultures using wild herd animals and forestry. It would be interesting to look at the human population, how much animal protein it needs (and fat), and what you could get from different land bases. I would guess that with the present population we need a degree of farming even with reducing meat and dairy consumption. There was maybe 100,000 Māori in NZ pre-Europeans, so that gives us a sense of the relationship between wild protein and land base size. We could sustain more than that via agriculture, but I doubt we could feed 4,000,000+ with completely wild protein.
To give our population roughly 1 kg of meat a week you would need to catch roughly 7,000,000 animals per year with a carcase weight of 30 KGS,
That’s one hell of a lot of hunters working and very slick operation to destribute it.
It might be better for some here to focus their energies on improving animal welfare and keep the pressure on improving the environmental management.
That’s per year right? I think that we could get the required nutrients from less animals if we ate the whole animal (organ meats, bones, etc). Plus what the other are talking about, eating small animals from close to home, with bigger animals on occassion.
If an adult needs 50g protein/day, and you can get 23gm protein from 85gm beef, then that’s just over 1kg. But if you were also eating nuts, seeds and legumes, you could probably half that at least. Lots of cultures eat small amounts of animal protein often.
But you are right, it’s a lot of work. Hunting takes energy. This is why I think that population is such a crucial issue. Once you start looking at a land base, say the Taeri Plains or the Waitaki catchment for those of us in the South, and how many people could be supported from that land, and doing so without fossil fuels, the whole picture changes. There is a reason that humans had much lower populations before the industrial revolution (as CV keeps pointing out).
1kg of meat per week is a lot of meat.
400g to 500g max I would have thought. Steak twice a week is not a bad set up.
It’s a lot more than I eat, but I think it also depends on one’s metabolism and what kind of activity one does. NZ does tend to eat a lot more than it needs nutritionally.
400g to 500g max I would have thought.
I get through that much just in bacon…
There you go Milt, you are balanced out by all those vegans 🙂
If it’s stuff from the supermarket its up to half water in weight…
Seriously good conversation you initiated today adam, thanks. Like Bill said, I think we’re all on a similar page, and how heartening to have so many thoughtful people able to discuss the issues without it degenerating into a ts bunfight. Well done everyone.
Roy Morgan this Friday. Will the NATs sink even lower, to say 40% or 41%?
Or will they bounce back from their lows of last month, despite all that has happened since then.
I am expecting as strong a showing from Winston this time around.
Very interesting discussion between Kathryn Ryan and David Parker on water….watch out Greens!…David Parker has well thought-out views and is impressive!
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201801136/labour-party's-position-on-water
“Labour’s environment spokesperson, David Parker, discusses his party’s approach to water: who owns it, should there be a price put on it, and what are Maori rights and interests in it?”
It was impressive Chooky. David really works hard on his portfolio subjects. It’s hard to trip him up as Kathryn Ryan discovered – no disrespect to Kathryn because she was doing her job.
Why should the Greens watch out?
If there is to be a change of government next year, Labour and the Greens need to be working together, not in competition?
That’s not the way that Labour thinks about the smaller ‘pretender’ parties.
And yet they are changing.
@ Enough is Enough…agreed they will be working together and David Parker is probably repeating their views…but if they are chasing the same vote on water quality David Parker is a very impressive spokesperson on this particular issue
Interesting facts
Amount of carbon sequestered in the earths soil 2500 billion tons
Amount of carbon in atmosphere 800 billion tons
Contribution of the burning of fossle fuels to increase of atmospheric CO2 two thirds
Contribution from loss of soil carbon due to human activity one third !
Soil carbon content is significant and should not be ignored either as a cause of global warming or an avenue for a very real and plausible mitigation strategy
The major carbon terrestrial carbon sinks are not the forest but the grasslands,
Counterintuitively it is the large herbervoirs (bison , cows) that make this possible by
1 trampling most of the years crop back into the soil
2 eating any trees that try to grow and turn it into forest
So just possibly cows are actually the good guys
If it were about what we need to eat alongside reducing transport and energy emissions quickly, yep. If it’s about global economy, BAU, profit driven agribusiness, I can’t see it making much difference. Some, but not enough.
The Biodynamic people would agree…
Good thinking, except our “civilisation” has (so far) been depleting top soil, not enhancing it.
Xanthe is correct. Soil carbon content (read, “humus”) is …
“significant…and an avenue for a very real and plausible mitigation strategy.”
Go, Xanthe!
sadly true
there will have to be some sort of mass epipheny to get out of this with dignity
which i admit is unlikely.
but not quite impossible 🙂
Mass epipheny…dignity…
that’s a lot to ask but getting out of this… yes, that’s on the cards.
“The answer’s in the soil, son”
Sure is!
Personal ephiany is all it takes. Then, get busy!!!
🙂
Soil. Better. Plus the Permaculture movement. Is that your interest Robert Guyton?
They seem to be a dynamic bunch.
greyshark – permaculture is one platform I employ but I’ve slipped into forest gardening for its expression. Here’s the link to my blog post that has a further link into our recently-published “Forest garden – Autumn” on Youtube, in case you are interested.
I see the temperate forest garden, such as my 25 year old version, as a very good template for an individual, family/whanau or small community to achieve a lot of the aims expressed in this thread – food production of all sorts, community-strengthening, preparation for the effects of a rambunctious climate and so on. A multi-layered forest garden is also a template for thinking and problem-solving, and from that I see the need for a multitude of responses to the issues described above and would not discard any approach lightly – horses for courses. I do have, however, a passion for the soil, it being the basis for much of what we do (I don’t mean to overlook the ocean, though I look out over an estuary here in Riverton, and recognise it’s primary importance to life on earth, it’s just that I’m a plant guy, not a fish guy).
I apologise for not responding to your comment yesterday – I was sequestered in the chambers of Environment Southland, where I spent the day locking horns, Cernunnos-like, with the farmer-councillors, intent on BAU.
Thanx Robert Guyton. It does my heart good just to read about what you are doing, showing us the way to achieve something concrete after our thinking and animated discussion. Thanks for your reply and interest.
also bwaghorn Sound practical thinking going on there I think.
Just a note – did you know Richard Barbe St Baker, Robert? I know he lived in NZ in his later years. Men of the Trees and I Planted Trees was, I think his book.
and I read Wendy Campbell Purdies book about planting in the desert in north Africa. she managed to get trees to grow that were tough, and then they planted vegs underneath their canopy. Women of the Desert was her book I think..
They were inspired to do something life encouraging after WW2 I think. Filled with noble ideals that they brought to bear. Needed again.
edited
Hi greywarshark and thanks. I didn’t meet the Men of the Trees man but did meet men who did 🙂 I had an association with the Southern branch of the MotT (and yes, there were women in that group) and they helped fund some of the tree-based projects I’ve run over the years. The movement in NZ is defunct now, I believe, as there were few young people joining. Our own ‘movement’ here in Riverton (Southland) is going in the other direction, that is, it’s blossoming, with young people joining us in significant numbers, moving to the village even, to be part of the action. We’ve a community forest garden, a neighbourhood heritage apple orchard, a wetland, a superb environment centre with organic food cooperative, seed savers network, displays on permaculture etc – very active, open 7 days and staffed by volunteers, young and old. As well we run a popular Harvest Festival every autumn and an Earth Craft festival in midwinter. We support and encourage growers through the coop and initiate all sorts of community planting projects, overt and covert. We host workshops on all things good, from fermenting to beekeeping, and teach a regular high-level organic growing course every Thursday night. Our Open Orchard project is very well known now and seeks to multiply the heritage apple varieties we’ve rescued from Southland orchards. My own forest garden has 80 different apple varieties sourced from those settler orchards and several other orchards we have planted around the region total about 600 trees. We are volunteer-based for most of our activities and that gives me much cause for hope, seeing what can be done outside of the funding paradigm. Presently, I’m encouraging Southlanders to plant their/our roadsides with hebes and our cycle trails with apple trees of the sort our grandparents established along the roadsides by chucking cores out of the widows of their cars (or charabangs 🙂 Busy times, but hey, we’ve a species to save.
Robert Guyton
Wow With all that going on and you found time to reply to me. I’m chuffed. Am involved with a new cooperative in Nelson centred round organic food, selling vegs fruit and veg cafe food. We will get that running nicely then are going to add community wellbeing fun things, learning workshops etc = want to be a hub of busy bees and positive environmental things. So will be looking at your web site and keep an eye out for good ideas that we can advance up here. We’ll be trying for some cross-fertilisation of ideas!
greywarshark – that’s marvelous and my ol’ hometown to boot! If ever you want to swap notes, feel free to get in touch through the South Coast Environment Society website; http://www.sces.org.nz – an email to them will get to me. We can begin to close the circuits between the deep south and the top of the south. Then, the world! Have you met Nick Kiddey yet, I wonder?
Robert Guyton
I have met Nick, some time ago but haven’t been working in environment for a while, been in op shop mode. Now looking to environment, healthy food, and co=operating together in helpful, positive groups.
I am very hopeful of the keen and practical doers in the environment group being able to carry many of us in NZ aside from its present dire path. I feel Jung’s dark shadow predominating at present and kindness and practicality must link to set the values to hold to and the
environmental groups seem to be the only ones working to change our approach, many just note the error of our ways and enjoy complaining how bad things are.
Google “Lucerne carbon sequestration” there is a lot of work here and over seas being done on it.
thanks for that , I appears to me that the work that is being done is within the framework of monoculture maximise short term farming.
what would happen if the sequestration of carbon was the primary focus and take only the produce that arises from that management (in the long term there might be more produce than now)
what is the carbon fixed / acre provided water and nutrients is not limiting (which would be approached under such management) ?
Hey xanthe, not sure if you saw these links the other day re sequestration etc
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18052016/#comment-1175703
You’ve asked me several questions I can’t answer sorry
b waghorn – the next iteration of carbon sequestration comes from Graeme Sait’s work with the “magic 5” green crop plants for the extra-effective production of soil-carbon/humus. The volumes of carbon that can be sequestered this way are considerably higher than with just the single crop. The combination is’ brassica, beet, legume, cereal and one other 🙂
I grow these year-round as the understorey in my forest garden. The soil here is extraordinarily good.
We, the people, should pay farmers (they are us also) through the Government-collected taxes to sequester carbon in their soils. All the Governments of the world should provide this incentive to capture atmospheric carbon and tuck it safely away in the agricultural soils of the planet. Quickly now, the clock’s ticking!
You speaking of bio-char and other such like?
Given that effectiveness is highly dependent on soil type and other (variable) environmental factors, meaning that the prospects for such techniques providing long term sequestration are limited, wouldn’t public money be better spent on known, more effective strategies – like emission reductions?
edit: my bad for not reading the preceding comments first. Changing land use regimes or habits is necessary, but again, why pay for a ‘second tier’ solution that everyone should be adhering to anyway? I mean sure, change. Do it. But we all know the principle cause of AGW is burning fossil and that the only solution to that is simply not to burn fossil.
very old technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
I’m not speaking of biochar at all, though I don’t discount it. I’m talking about the conversion of organic matter (stuff that was alive) into stable carboniferous “material” through the actions of soil organisms. Carbon from the air, into the soil, where it plays various roles, staying put for a very long time and along the way, enhancing soil life and plant growth (for example, it clasps nutrients to its black bosom and releases them on an as-needed basis to hungry plants, nutrients that would otherwise have been flushed through and away by the rain, or bound too tightly to other components of the soil – stand up, clay!)
This is one of my favourite explanations Bill. Basically you use plants to store carbon, deeply, and then you don’t dig it up again,
http://www.bioneers.org/agriculture-climate-change-interview-darren-doherty/
I’m more familiar with the grazing techniques used to do this, but I’ve been seeing some work on regenerating forest too (yes, they’re starting to realise now that forests sequester more carbon than previously thought).
Did we mention water? Soil carbon/humus holds water molecules like nobody’s business , creating ‘in-land’ lakes that don’t evaporate, being underground, and require no reticulation to get to the plant roots – they’re already there! We here in New Zealand are experts at water-mismanagement. The black ‘carbon-agents’ being described here will solve all our water issues, be they too much or too little water.
Yes! Next time I’m banging on about farmer-induced droughts in NZ I hope you and Xanthe are around. Would be great to have the broader perspectives.
Haikai Tane would add great value to the discussion, though he’s not seen on blogs. Taoist farmers have got it going on! Kama Burwell has a blog and she and Nandor have an interesting interview online.
Sweet, will look it up.
Why pay? Because that’s the lever that ensures success in that sector. Do we want to succeed? Pay them to do it. They are the ‘big fellas’, they have the land and the capability. Permaculturalists/organic farmers etc. own a minuscule percentage of the world’s farmland. It’s the conventional farmland that will receive the carbon that has to be retrieved. Pay or fail, even if it irks you sorely 🙂
Another reason is that many conventional farms carry a high level of debt and aren’t allowed to stray too far from the BAU plan. If we want them to start doing the right thing we have to make that financially viable. Should definitely come with conditions though.
Well the figure i have found for the global sequestration of carbon in grasslands is
.5 pg /y 10-1 which i think means one half a petagram per year times ten to the minus 1
ie 50000000000 kg or .5 billion tons (metric)
Or .06% of the total atmospheric carbon
Of course that will be the total cycle, more or less of that will remain sequestered depending on management, but
Thats actually a rather hopeful number
Assuming my starting numbers and sums arnt complete bullshit !
Bullshit’s good stuff, Xanthe, provided you have the sequestering organisms in place for when it hits the ground 🙂
But lignin, have we mentioned lignin? Throw some of that stuff at soil laced with mycellium of mycorrhizal fungi and we’re really starting to talk carbon sequestration!