Open mike 18/10/2012

106 comments on “Open mike 18/10/2012 ”

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1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

   18 October 2012 at 7:19 am

   http://www.facebook.com/PaulaBennettHasToGo
   • Dr Terry 1.1

     18 October 2012 at 10:20 am

     AWW. Sure, Bennett has to go, BUT WHEN? In 20 years time? No National Minister “goes” whatever the circumstance!
2. Logie97 2

   18 October 2012 at 7:52 am

   Barriers to learning.

   The problem is still there people but what a brilliant bit of diversion by the government.

   Campbell Live highlights that there is a “hunger” problem in schools.
   Government response, after much public pressure, make an announcement that
   they will provide funding for lower decile schools to provide food…

   Yeah, well guess what? The emphasis is on “will” and unsurprisingly not
   “now”. So the issue gets removed from the headlines but is still as real today
   as it was yesterday. Probably tired, hungry, listless children in classrooms.
   • Dr Terry 2.1

     18 October 2012 at 10:22 am

     Logie – Of course it is as real today as yesterday. Again, we must ask “when?” – 20 or more years time (with luck)?
3. muzza 3

   18 October 2012 at 8:03 am

   Agenda 21 in NZ

   Where does the formation of MoBIE fit into this ….

   [lprent: Link fixed.. ]
   • ianmac 3.1

     18 October 2012 at 9:35 am

     Page not found.
     • David H 3.1.1

       18 October 2012 at 9:47 am

       remove the hyphen at the end of the link
   • muzza 3.2

     18 October 2012 at 10:00 am

     I see I included ‘ when posting the link, just remove this from the cut an paste…

     Mods, could someone please fix the link?

     Cheers
     [lprent: ok ]
4. tc 4

   18 October 2012 at 8:22 am

   OZ broadcaster Channel 9 now 100% owned by US hedge funds being mainly Oaktree Capital and Apollo Global Management.

   Watch that space now uncle sam interests owns them and Rupert’s reasserted himself in his newpaper empire in OZ.
5. muzza 5

   18 October 2012 at 9:01 am

   Bars’ use of ID scanners raises concern

   Bar patrons are being scanned and photographed as managers seek to keep out the rabble and take note of the regulars.

   A new technology that scans and records photo IDs – as well as taking additional photos of revellers – is being trialled throughout the lower North Island.

   There are three ID scanning machines in the country, with two in Auckland and the third being moved around from Wellington to Hawke’s Bay.

   Any just who will listen to this, concern!

   The expansion continues, and the environments will continue to contract, as they digital grid envelops all aspects of life!
   • karol 5.1

     18 October 2012 at 9:11 am

     Thanks for this, muzza.  More worrying extensions of the surveillance society.  Surveillance precedes, and enables, control, regulation and/or manipulation of reality.
     • muzza 5.1.1

       18 October 2012 at 9:28 am

       Hi Karol, yes its all being played out right in front of our faces…

       This link from yesterday .

       http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/7811216/Subaru-adds-EyeSight-for-safer-driving

       Awesome!
       • karol 5.1.1.1

         18 October 2012 at 9:34 am

         Ha!.. But machines are always fallible – one step away from a “toaster”?!
         • muzza 5.1.1.1.1

           18 October 2012 at 9:51 am

           Songdo in South Korea leading charge to become city of the future

           Notice how the city is “not considered” part of Korea, which is an important aspect of removing sovereignty, or divorcing people from the concept of it.

           Cities are already home to half of the world’s 7billion population and that figure will rise to 70 per cent by 2050, according to the United Nations.

           Every inch of the city has been wired up by Cisco with fibre optic broadband keeping people connected and sending a constant data stream to computer processors that keep Songdo operating.

           TelePresence screens are being installed in all homes, offices, hospitals and shopping centres so people can make video calls whenever they want.

           In addition, sensors embedded in streets and buildings monitor everything from temperature to road conditions to help the city run efficiently and react to problems at lightning speed. For example, street lights can be switched off in deserted streets to save energy or brightened in busy ones

           See my post on agenda 21 higher up – The UN is driving the globalist agenda, and part of that is forcing people into the cities…

           The technology and legislative roadmaps, ensure that the figures quoted by the UN are +/- achieveable, because they’re in control, even now!
         • David H 5.1.1.1.2

           18 October 2012 at 1:30 pm

           And do you trust your Computer more than your Toaster?

           Why?

           Because it does not matter whether you paid 50g or 50c for it. When the circuit goes pop all you got left is E waste.
           • karol 5.1.1.1.2.1

             18 October 2012 at 2:39 pm

             I was thinking of Battlestar Galactica Toasters.
              
             • Draco T Bastard …

               18 October 2012 at 3:01 pm

               http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2012/10/simon-and-garfunkel-sing-the-sound-of-cylons/

               Possibly NSFW
               • karol …

                 18 October 2012 at 6:42 pm

                 Ha! Brilliant!.  Now there was a show! And one of those female toasters is into  motorbikes (apropos of nothing, except it reminds me of my youth).
             • Colonial Viper …

               18 October 2012 at 6:34 pm

               😎
               • Rogue Trooper …

                 18 October 2012 at 6:53 pm

                 😉 X 2
6. Rogue Trooper 6

   18 October 2012 at 9:04 am

   Wondering Aloud http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0W7rgo3IDI
   Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude (well, maybe a little cheeky). it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs (that’s a challenge 🙂 ) .Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

   (Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed!, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.)

   Now we see but a poor reflection, as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.

   So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. (wonder what the moon is getting round to) 🙂

   -Homiletics 101; The Living Word

   anyway,

   Te Whare tapa Wha; Struggle without End
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10841293

   Back Down on The Farm
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10841238

   ” standing on shakey ground…”
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/christchurch-earthquake/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502981&objectid=10840853

   According to one of Rachels’ topical interviewees, Synthetic and Legal Pharmaceuticals are
   “the Drug problem of the 21st Century” (ya don’t say! pass me another couple of aspire in)

   What’s The Matter Here?
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m39DWVFK-Bw

   Read: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7rikO0nsHA
   (There was only a brief Summer of The Golden Weather; much time spent In our fathers / mothers den)

   Great Art goes missing-Rothko

   To when they allow the Philosopher Kings

   -the madman crying in the wilderness
   (Franken Steinway my Dear, I don’t give damn)

   😉
7. prism 7

   18 October 2012 at 9:15 am

   Sanitarium is using our Court system to fight its corporate interests but doesn’t contribute tax to NZ to fund this. Sanitarium has a waiver on tax because it is a church-charity-owned business. And the business is hand-to-mouth because they are selling food, not because they are a charity that funds itself from cake stalls, op shops, and grants from community trusts.

   They spend the tax they would otherwise pay to government and the country, on their own chosen interests. But not even necessarily in NZ. And they are a major player in the food market. Another way for NZ government to be fleeced by big business.

   Christopher Adams at NZ Business Herald had a good piece in June 2012 on this. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10816412

   Sanitarium – the maker of Kiwi staples Weet-Bix and Skippy Cornflakes – has evolved into a giant of the local food manufacturing sector over the last century.
   The Royal Oak-based firm says its share of the New Zealand cereal market sits at about 35 per cent, while Kellogg’s, its nearest rival, holds roughly 23 per cent….

   Wholly owned by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Sanitarium’s arms on both sides of the Tasman are exempt from paying company tax on their earnings because their profits help fund the church’s charitable and religious activities.
   But that tax break doesn’t mean all of the income generated by the church’s local businesses is required to stay in this country.
   Following enquiries by the Business Herald, the church confirmed that its New Zealand-based companies have invested roughly $13 million into three ventures in the United States since 2007.

   Other – on their profit and accounts http://www.avalonsguide.com/anab/2012/09/sanitarium-by-the-numbers/
   What Sanitarium say about themselves:
   http://www.sanitarium.co.nz/about-us/our-promise/sanitarium-charitable-purposes
   • Rogue Trooper 7.1

     18 October 2012 at 9:26 am

     Kiwi kids, are Weet-Bix kids ( Daniel can probably eat a whole box)
   • Ed 7.2

     18 October 2012 at 9:35 am

     My understanding is that commercial operations such as Sanitarium are now subject to New Zealand Income tax. Presumably an effect of the removal of limits on charitable donations now enables such businesses to make sufficient donations to a registered charity so as to make no taxable profits, but they will be subject to GST and rates for example. I am not a tax expert though..
     • prism 7.2.1

       18 October 2012 at 9:54 am

       Ed 7.2
       The public, the consumers, pay the GST. Rates cover the use of property for offices, manufacturing or warehousing and are a local council matter, don’t know how they act to charities that are major income earning businesses. I think schools pay rates, there was consternation about being charged individual pan tax for instance, because of the number of toilets required to service all the children. So not too many exemptions.
       • millsy 7.2.1.1

         18 October 2012 at 10:37 am

         As far as I know, schools dont pay rates, but they do pay council water charge, like the proposed pan tax.
8. Rogue Trooper 8

   18 October 2012 at 9:50 am

   Ad vertisement:
   Life without industry is guilt, and industry without art is brutality.
   (approximations at irony, sarcasm, ironic sarcasm, do not convey precisely)

   ya’ can’t please all the people all the time, but ya sure can please some of the people some of the time
   (and some children in the play ground just choose not to play with you)

   🙂 🙂 🙂
9. Jackal 9

   18 October 2012 at 10:31 am

   Time for a maximum wage

   Clearly a maximum wage has many benefits for the government and New Zealand in general…
   • prism 9.1

     18 October 2012 at 11:16 am

     Good Jackal – A good look at the possibilities. And the interesting parrying that comes up against any ‘new’ idea in NZ accompanied by some fudged ‘facts’. As far as decision making goes we in this country are about as clear thinking as witch hunters blaming cow deaths on the nearest hapless outlier.
10. millsy 10

    18 October 2012 at 10:36 am

    Darien Fenton’s bill to protect library services didn’t make it into the house last night, even though it was supposed to. Disappointing, as I think that this is an issue that needs to be brought out of the shadows.

    Fat German computer nerds, sky-high dollars, youth rates and bennie bashing are more sexier topics than a valuble community resource falling victim to local authority cost cutting.

    Labour and the Greens would have defintely voted for it, and there was a good chance NZ First and the Maori Party would have voted for it, and who knows, Peter Dunne might have backed it as well. I think ACT and National would have voted against, on the grounds of not wanting to interfere with the activites of local bodies, even though there is a bill pending to limit spending by councils.

    Oh well, next week I guess.
    • karol 10.1

      18 October 2012 at 10:41 am

      Agreed, millsy, and I’m keeping a watch on it.

      “The Local Government (Public Libraries) Amendment Bill is in line with UNESCO Guidelines on Libraries and responds to calls from groups such as the Library and Information Association of New Zealand Aotearoa (LIANZA) to have such free public library services enshrined in law.
11. vto 11

    18 October 2012 at 10:45 am

    Fuck all this, I’m off.

    Into the wilds – yahoo! Diving into genuineness, reality, clear and unambiguous honesty, credibility, a place of no lies or deception, rorts or other dastardly deeds. A place where lies and deception get turned on their head pretty much instantly with uncomfortable and situation-changing consequences.

    Imagine if the real world was like that…
    • prism 11.1

      18 October 2012 at 10:53 am

      vto
      Don’t know about credibility at all times in the wilds. Kathryn Ryan did an extremely good and probing interview on the quality of outdoor leaders and their capabilities as used by schools particularly. The picture seemed to be that there was a fuzzy area about who was suitably trained and experienced and what controls on ratios of children, of mixed experience and strength, to leaders. Very interesting and troubling. Lies and deception could be how bereaved parents might see the situation.
      • vto 11.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 10:59 am

        Oh yes, you’re right about that. I was referring to the credibility and honesty of the actual environment, not the people who enter it. Trying to put one over nature will lead to nothing but consequences ……
        • prism 11.1.1.1

          18 October 2012 at 4:36 pm

          vto
          It is uncompromising all right. Go well and safely.
12. prism 12

    18 October 2012 at 10:47 am

    The Alex business cartoon is usually very good.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/
    Also they invite emails with ideas for the cartoon and we could supply some wry comments I think – if it mirrored the way that Jokey Hen’s mind works.
13. Dave Kennedy (bsprout) 13

    18 October 2012 at 11:39 am

    Quick, pass it on…
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/pass-responsibility-latest-party-game.html
    • Jim Nald 13.1

      18 October 2012 at 11:45 am

      Like!
    • Red Rosa 13.2

      18 October 2012 at 1:55 pm

      Good one! And see

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/7833277/Pay-system-leaves-teacher-with-just-4

      Talk about a series of fiascos this month…and still 2 weeks to go!
      • David H 13.2.1

        18 October 2012 at 4:08 pm

        And a why can’t a teacher sue Novopay for damages, loss of sleep (stress) etc etc Bills not paid. Because in this day and age of electronic credit checks, they don’t say why the payment was late, just that it was late, or not paid for X weeks. And tough shit on those who are affected.
    • Jackal 13.3

      18 October 2012 at 2:16 pm

      Good article there Dave. I think the right-wing are doing their best to say inequality isn’t increasing more than blaming the public though. That’s what all the median wages are increasing malarky is about.
      • Dave Kennedy (bsprout) 13.3.1

        18 October 2012 at 2:28 pm

        You’re probably right Jackal, in actual fact they will say anything to make sure that the finger isn’t pointed at them. In education they love raw data and quantitative research because they can create a narrative around the data to suit themselves. They hate qualitative research because it generally contains rational explanations and evidence for why their policies are wrong.
        • BLiP 13.3.1.1

          18 October 2012 at 4:41 pm

          .

          Yep, all true. There is ample raw data which confirms the Right’s “market power” belief system is fundamentally flawed yet, as you say, it can be framed by a duplicitous narrative which the largely apathetic public and indolent MSM swallow. Its incredibly frustrating because it is the battle for public opinion which is the primary arena if there is to be peaceful political change.

          The TLS has an interesting piece about how to get the message across:

          Your public, though well intentioned, is ignorant and more than a little obtuse, inclined to think of the lives of the poor (especially, perhaps, the distant or foreign poor) as not equally real. How do you write, if you want to inform their perceptions and inspire useful choices? . . . C. Daniel Batson’s magisterial work on empathy and altruism shows that a particularized narrative of suffering has unique power to produce motives for constructive action.

          I think this sort of approach worked well with the watersiders in their (on-going) struggle for equitable treatment from POAL. The raw data was abundantly clear that the union and its members were being systematically shafted but it seemed (to me, anyway) that a modicom of public support was generated by the personal stories of the workers being subject to the pernicious machinations of the Right.

          Telling first-hand and undeniable stories of brave people suffering at the hands of National Ltd™ policies might well be a way forward when it comes to exposing the brutal reality imposed on society’s weakest by John Key and his band of privateers. Thing is, finding those brave people because they will have to expose themselves to an already uncaring public scrutiny and the pradations of the likes of Slater et al.
          • Dave Kennedy (bsprout) 13.3.1.1.1

            18 October 2012 at 6:02 pm

            I quite agree, Blip. The CTU/Maritime Union deliberately used human stories to meet the employers attempt to paint the workers as a union rabble, they were essentially fathers and family men being treated appallingly. It was very successful.

            This Government does the same thing themselves, they will cite one or two dodgy teachers to justify a review of the Teachers Council and describe one or two beneficiaries to justify cutting benefits or services. I think Campbell Live is providing a useful service with his visual depiction of school lunches and his stories of suffering in Christchurch. We need print journalists to use more of this approach.

            I agree with your concerns about people being prepared to stand up and be counted for this sort of thing because they will need to be well vetted and supported just incase National uses the Paula Bennett strategy to shut them up. I can see this next election becoming a very dirty one indeed.
14. deuto 14

    18 October 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Being Thursday, John Key -now Dunnokeyo – will not be in the House for Question Time. but the questions are not letting up.

    Charles Chauvel is taking another approach in asking Finlayson who the other two Ministers were at the meeting with Key

    4.CHARLES CHAUVEL to the Attorney-General: Who, other than himself and the Prime Minister, was present at the discussion on the Government Communications Security Bureau’s unlawful surveillance of Mr Dotcom?

    A couple of questions are to the PM – wonder who the lucky Minister will be who will have to answer on his behalf?

    6.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: Does he think it is important that his Ministers, including himself, come to the House prepared to give honest answers?
    9.Dr DAVID CLARK to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his comment that Government computer systems “can’t actually support radical changes from Government”?

    And another hilarious/frustrating session with Parata having to answer questions 1, 11 and 12. Parata’s performance yesterday was unbelievable.

    1.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA to the Minister of Education: Is it still her strategy in education to “focus on teaching and learning quality” and “transparent accountabilities”?
    11.CHRIS HIPKINS to the Minister of Education: How long will boards of trustees of the schools she proposes to close or merge in Christchurch have to consult with their local communities before they are required to provide feedback to her ahead of a final decision?
    12.CATHERINE DELAHUNTY to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement to schools, about their obligation under the Official Information Act 1982, that, “New Zealand is an open and transparent democracy. They [schools] are required to release this information. You are public entities.”?
    • Treetop 14.1

      18 October 2012 at 12:53 pm

      Why are questions not being asked to Tolley?

      Police told the GCSB on 16 February 2012 at a debrief that the spying may have been illegal.

      Are the Police not answerable to Tolley?
15. ianmac 15

    18 October 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Yes and Q 6 from Winston implies fireworks. Risky but it has passed through the checking stage this morning. Must watch.
    Wonder if the Minister of Education will be too busy to attend Q Time today? Duck!
    • freedom 15.1

      18 October 2012 at 1:03 pm

      Q6 should have said ‘-prepared to deliver factually correct answers ? ‘
      the ‘honest’ leaves far too much wriggle room based on the individual’s perception of what constitutes honesty, and who trusts the Nats’ interpretation of anything?
    • David H 15.2

      18 October 2012 at 1:38 pm

      Yep the second tier of bullshit artist will be out on display today.

      It’s bad enough that the politicians are only expected to do 3 days a week for 3 weeks and have a what? a month off, it’s just bull shit that Key is too fucking LAZY to attend question time for the 3 days a week that it’s on. Will someone pleasae tell this useless lazy prick that it’s customary to attend parliament if for nothing else but to face your detractors. Shows how Chicken shit Key really is..
    • deuto 15.3

      18 October 2012 at 1:57 pm

      Agreed Ianmac. Today’s questions were not put up on the Parliament website until about 30 -45 minutes later than usual, so possibly there has been something going on behind the scenes (my conspiracy theory for the day, lol).
      • ianmac 15.3.1

        18 October 2012 at 2:10 pm

        That is a big surprise. The Minister of Education is absent. Never mind Ex Minister Tolley is there to help.
        • deuto 15.3.1.1

          18 October 2012 at 2:16 pm

          Surprise, surprise after Parata’s unbelievable performance yesterday. I note that the Associate Minister of Education is in the House – Banks.
          • freedom 15.3.1.1.1

            18 October 2012 at 2:49 pm

            and Charles Chauvell throws a sloppy pitch and watches helpless as Finlayson whacks it soaring away into the bleechers

            How can the Opposition Parties allow this bungling of questions during this crucial juncture in New Zealand’s decline? Where was the precision, the detail? The most basic necessity of the current function of the Opposition Parties should be nothing but extracting clear facts from the Government and instead many are appearing complicit in the misdirection and obfuscation.

            These games are getting tiresome and NZ Parliament is not a batting cage in which to hone the swing.

            SINGLE PART QUESTIONS GET ANSWERS

            perhaps next week will be better
            I am off to the Hawkes Bay for a long weekend of playing with nephews,
            at least they ask decent questions
            • freedom 15.3.1.1.1.1

              18 October 2012 at 3:09 pm

              p.s.
              Why was the Associate Minister of Education not answering the questions put to the Minsiter of Education?
            • prism 15.3.1.1.1.2

              18 October 2012 at 4:26 pm

              freedom 15.3 et al

              SINGLE PART QUESTIONS GET ANSWERS

              That is a really good point for Labour and anyone to remember. If a questioner has a particular point, keep honed to that point. If you give the respondent a chance to go off on some fuzzy side issue, or even the hint of some emotional, or current folk issue, then chances are you won’t get into territory that needs toe to toe discussion.

              Same with blogs or writing to the newspapers. Give people a chance and they will wander off on some hobby-horse. An example, bad, is the referendum on crime that is so well-known. A two part question and an unclear answer that politicians chose to follow with more punitive punishment all round. Costly and ineffective.

              (I have been looking up the Christie Marceau tragedy – better, thoughtful policies for young men in difficulties, would likely have prevented this guy going off his head. Someone must have noticed his weird thinking and behaviour.)
            • Rogue Trooper 15.3.1.1.1.3

              18 October 2012 at 5:53 pm

              St Matthew’s bearing own cross
    • blue leopard 15.4

      18 October 2012 at 5:39 pm

      Winston Peters is expressing sufficient levels of anger and disgust to reflect accurately the way I am feeling about the disgusting level of non-answers this Government has been deeming fit to supply the house (and thus all of us).

      I’m unclear how parliament can function effectively without some level of adherence to answers with a fair level of honesty or integrity. This is simply a farce and has been going on last term as well as this term.

      My view is that Winston Peters has lifted the quality and strength of opposition immensely by his return and I am grateful to those people who voted for him to be quite frank.

      I acknowledge that the level of opposition is improving from other parties however, I would like to see a whole lot more indignation/anger over the joke of the way DunnoKeyO ltd are treating the affairs of the State.

      If this were persevered in I am confident that our sleepy MSM would eventually catch on, they appear to have to be spoon-fed a critical approach and now that they have checked out it is left up to sites such as The Standard and our opposition politicians to do that.
16. prism 16

    18 October 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Crafar farms have passed into Chinese ownership with Landcorp Farming Ltd taking the position of sharemilker to the business. They are going to export to China. It would be expected that this would be high quality milk product. I was thinking of how to do more than slap a NZ label on it and hope for the best as far as keeping our milk standards up – from all NZ exporters.

    How would an appellation system go? A tightly run system like the French and other European wine areas adopt? To be included in this a farm would have to do everything right about quality and have high standards as far as pollution and actual enhancing the environment not just repairing it. We don’t want Chinese or others quick to take advantage, selling any more product that is tainted and bringing down what standards and customer loyalty we have established.

    A help would be if photogenic PM Jokey Hen didn’t provide a photographic endorsement for foreign dairy business. Other Prime Ministers have talents like singing etc. He should concentrate on connecting his image where it can do him and us some good.
    • freedom 16.1

      18 October 2012 at 1:08 pm

      “He should concentrate on connecting his image where it can do him and us some good.”

      The International Depature Gates might be a good start
    • weka 16.2

      18 October 2012 at 6:10 pm

      “and have high standards as far as pollution and actual enhancing the environment not just repairing it.”
       
      Industrial dairy farming is inherently polluting and damaging to the land, and inherently unsustainable. Even more so when the product is exported. We are literally pulling the fertility out of the land and selling it overseas. We cannot replace that fertility in the timeframes we are talking about. There is no way to farm sustainably under those conditions, because of the net loss of nutrients as well as the destruction of soil and soil biota from industrial farming practices.
      • Colonial Viper 16.2.1

        18 October 2012 at 6:26 pm

        there are many ways to commercially dairy farm, and it’s not really whether a dairy farm is “industrial” or “corporate” which is the issue, it’s how intensive the land is farmed.

        Running out of phosphate and diesel is going to put a dampener on all of this anyhows.
        • weka 16.2.1.1

          18 October 2012 at 10:09 pm

          The industrial model IS intensive. That’s the whole point – it’s why they clear paddocks of any trees, use artificial fertiliser, pack as many stock units in as possible, allow whatever runoff they can get away with, and steal water from aquifers. It’s all about stock units and profit margins.
           
          I do know some organic dairy farmers who are doing really good things, far far better than conventional industrial dairying, but they’re not really sustainable either. And if they’re exporting their milk/fertility, it’s definitely not sustainable.
17. starlight 17

    18 October 2012 at 1:06 pm

    The ANZ bank job survey out today, says that job ads fell back almost 3% in september,
    pointing to unemployment rising to 7%.
    The survey also said there was a 5.9% fall in newspaper job ads in the month of september,
    internet job ads dropped 2.4% in september.
    A 7% unemployment rate is expected in 6 months.
    • starlight 17.1

      18 October 2012 at 2:36 pm

      Has brownlee mistaken the anz figures? i just heard him saying in parliament that
      there had been a 5.9% increase in newspaper jobs in chch.
      • mickysavage 17.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 6:27 pm

        In Christchurch.  Talk about cherry picking your data …
18. freedom 18

    18 October 2012 at 1:25 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10841205

    TPP is a negotiation, an attempt in a structured process to find scope for consensus where none appears to exist. It’s not for nothing trade negotiations are called the art of the possible.

    That’s also why this process needs to take place behind closed doors, at least until consensus is forged.

    This is not the same as secrecy – it’s no secret TPP talks are taking place in Auckland in December. At that time any public stakeholders who register their interest will be able to meet with negotiators as they have done in every other negotiating round.

    Those on all sides of the TPP debate will do so and they should, to ensure negotiators are aware of their concerns. New Zealand negotiators are extremely open to this and meet regularly with those for and against TPP.

    translation? : Trust us, fear not, It’s all ok! No need to look back there, there is no curtain, that is simply a light diffusing tool that happens to be made of fabric and has multi-positional capabilities.
    • muzza 18.1

      18 October 2012 at 1:33 pm

      Jacobi used the word conspiracy in the the title, so the automatic position MUST be that there is something(s) to be hidden…

      Stephen Jacobi is executive director of the NZ US Council and the NZ International Business Forum – Makes him a neutral then doen’t it!
    • Draco T Bastard 18.2

      18 October 2012 at 3:44 pm

      At that time any public stakeholders who register their interest will be able to meet with negotiators as they have done in every other negotiating round.

      The implication of that sentence is that the public aren’t stakeholders in their own governance.
      • muzza 18.2.1

        18 October 2012 at 4:48 pm

        Yes I read that, and as I did so, I just shook my head at the implication!

        For-gone-con-clu-sion
    • Paul 18.3

      18 October 2012 at 7:43 pm

      Great video on the TPP
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SOokUdKYcM
19. Penny Bright 19

    18 October 2012 at 2:01 pm

    CAMERON BREWER CLAIMS JOHN BANKS HAS BEEN GREAT FOR AUCKLAND!

    (You have GOT to be joking ? )

    http://cameronbrewer.co.nz/2012/10/john-banks-has-been-great-for-auckland/

    Birds of a feather flock together?

    NOT a good look Cameron Brewer- defending the indefensible ‘dodgy’ John Banks?

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/JOHN-BANKS-RAT-WITH-GOLD-TOOTH-MORPH-BANNER-ONLY-23-September-2012.jpg

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HOWCOME.jpg

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
20. Rogue Trooper 20

    18 October 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Dearest Ad / Uturn, Viper et al; 🙂
    The Spirit moves among us, of that I am certain. Only yesterday I learned of the relationship between the parish and the Orthodox Greeks here. Then, this morning, another timely and topical homily delivered by a Theologian who made me feel very at home and directed over a cup of tea 😉 (man! now I am gonna have to go back to school, at least Otago can come to us, just continue being a rogue in the interim). Amongst other topics, we covered Heidegger’s ” Instrumental, Inter-personal and Revelational” (off the top of my head, William Tell) and now this
    Propaganda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda:_The_Formation_of_Men%27s_Attitudes
    and this
    Jack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellul,_Jacques

    and the Industrial Workers of the World (and a whole lotta lovin people who suggest you are not alone) Wow! Thanks very much!

    The Book of Ammon appears worth reading.
    (I have always been meaning to read Barth on Romans)

    There aint half been some clever ( wise) bastards; Another cornerstone for the AC (all sharing the plough)

    Now, to all the atheists, if you let it happen, you will be amazed by the phenomenology of The Spirit; It just keeps on giving, Day after day after day.

    -John (chips and fishes for lunch) Wow!

    Rock On! 🙂

    (oops, there is some un-referenced Ruskin behind me)
    • prism 20.1

      18 October 2012 at 4:40 pm

      RT
      I thought it was loaves and fishes.
      • Rogue Trooper 20.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 5:55 pm

        🙂
21. Penny Bright 21

    18 October 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Why ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ has not been applied to John Banks and Don Brash………

    yep – smells like a corrupt form of political protection to me – in my considered opinion.

    The Report of the Commerce Select Committee and new evidence provided by the Finance Markets Authority and the Serious Fraud Office .

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/corruption/commerce-select-committee-report-on-banks/

    What do others think?

    (After actually READING the information provided? 🙂

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
22. Dv 22

    18 October 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Penny I agree with you.
    It seems rather Odd that Banks and Brash sign a prospectus in which dodgy figures are used that Hullich got prosecuted for.

    The other bit about this saga is Hullich toted his Kiwisaver round south auckland an Porirua in the malls (and door to door?).
23. felix 23

    18 October 2012 at 3:11 pm

    So apparently Tariana was on radio live yesterday, and apparently she said that the actions of the govt (of which she is a part) regarding the water rights issue constitute “confiscation” of water rights from maori.

    Apparently it was pointed out to her that this is exactly what she left the Labour govt over, and was asked if she would be walking from the govt, and if not, why that threshold for her support no longer applied.

    And apparently she said she intended to remain supporting National until such time as “my people” tell her to go.

    I can only assume that the “my people” she refers to are John Key and Bill English.
24. Rogue Trooper 24

    18 October 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Distortion
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/932_458407134198570_661795578_n.jpg

    ( I have heard ” the city is the supreme work of man” distorted by an architect referring to the Shard Tower of Babel )
25. Logie97 25

    18 October 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Shock, horror, Stuff headline

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7833748/Zumba-teaching-prostitute-shakes-up-town

    Which New Zealand personalities are going to be caught up in this one? But then when you get to the third paragraph you discover that it isn’t good ol’ Nuzilnd – phew just another tacky story from that land that Key loves and admires.

    Says a lot about the editors of our MSM though.
    • muzza 25.1

      18 October 2012 at 4:56 pm

      The MSMs job is to deflect and dumb down to the point where people are no longer able to understand, let alone comprehend what is happening around, and to them. They are enveloped in a bubble of utter irrelevance, to the point where their instincts are dead, we see that the masses are most of the way to that stage of devolution.

      Anyone who has even a modacum of understanding/awareness, is already, and will increasingly be seen even more so, as “a freak”!

      The world is being twisted inside out, and for those who can see it happening, its hard to watch to be fair!
26. Morrissey 26

    18 October 2012 at 4:57 pm

    Why is STEPHEN FRANKS being interviewed about a knife-killing?
    The Panel, National Radio, Thursday 18 October 2012
    Jim Mora, Andrew Clay, Rosemary McLeod

    First topic for the day: the killing of Christie Marceau by Akshay Chand. Who better to discuss this than a couple of lightweight Panelists and someone from the pro-knife-killing Sensible Sentencing Trust?…

    JIM MORA: We’re going to talk to Wellington lawyer Stephen Franks about this “Not Guilty by reason of insanity” verdict.

    ANDREW CLAY: [blithely] I’m a liberal left kind of guy but on this issue, I’m happy to say I’m quite right wing!

    ROSEMARY McLEOD: [gravely] I’m surprised that you are having someone on who is an expert on the law rather than on human relations.

    STEPHEN FRANKS: [disgustingly] REDACTED FOR REASONS OF MORALITY AND TASTE.

    Franks is such a repellent character that we are unable to physically transcribe his garbage. However, it is noteworthy that Franks, who, remember, is a shameless supporter of this kind of crime, used the word “wickedness” four times, including once in the phrase “mad wickedness”. He also mocked the “pious wishes” of what he called “liberals”. This prompted another McLeod outburst….

    ROSEMARY McLEOD: [gravely]It’s these counsellors I am concerned about. Who exactly are these counsellors? Curious middle class women who enjoy interfering in other people’s lives.

    ANDREW CLAY: A hur hur hur hur!

    ROSEMARY McLEOD: Sniff. I find it all quite odd, really.

    Appalled, I dashed off the following e-mail to Jim Mora….

    Dear Jim,

    Stephen Franks works for the Sensible Sentencing Trust, and is a close colleague of Garth McVicar. After the 2008 knife-killing of a boy in Manurewa, both Franks and McVicar, speaking as official representatives of the SST, expressed vehement support not for the victim, but for his killer. For weeks and months after the killing, they spoke out in support of the killer, and compounded this by pouring abuse and scorn on the memory of the dead boy and his grieving mother.

    Could you explain to your listeners why you chose to interview Stephen Franks, of all people, about a knife murder?

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point
    • Paul 26.1

      18 October 2012 at 7:34 pm

      Well noted Morrissey.
      A question for RNZ.
      Why do you use so many ex- ACT MPs as representative of NZ opinion when they have have less than 1% of the vote? Jim Moira in particular asks the right wing of Natioanl + ACT a lot onto his ‘panel’.
      • Rogue Trooper 26.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 9:03 pm

        deaf to RNZ for years
      • BLiP 26.1.2

        18 October 2012 at 9:18 pm

        .

        Its not Jim’s fault. He’s just the “talent” – the “Ted Knight” of “Afternoons”.

        The weakness lies in the RNZ management system whereby idiots are employed to soothe funder concerns. This results in “shows” being filled-up with people who promote themselves and, thus, save staff having to do any work or otherwise think about who might be suitable and/or interesting. The problem is compounded by the Wellington social-circuit where “media darlings” are courted by apparently sincere people who can “help” with “access” to “opinion leaders”.

        Its a shame, really. What’s missing from the public dialouge is that bitter truth derived from cynicism that used to exist in the media. Now its all about “networking”.
        • Paul 26.1.2.1

          18 October 2012 at 9:27 pm

          Really interesting Blip – especially the points about the RNZ management system and the Wellington social circuit.
          Can I ask you, if you were the boss of RNZ for a week, which more varied opinions would you invite to challenge funder concerns?
          Was Malcolom Bradbury removed from the Panel for these reasons?
          • BLiP 26.1.2.1.1

            18 October 2012 at 10:39 pm

            .

            Can I ask you, if you were the boss of RNZ for a week, which more varied opinions would you invite to challenge funder concerns?

            If I were The Boss of RNZ for a week I wouldn’t worry about the details. First off, I would double the advertising rates for all the commercial channels and leave them intact. On the free-to-air channels I would devolve the network down to local channels, no more than, say, 10,000 listeners and involve community activists wishing to address that audience – plus play excellent music and re-run The Goon Show.

            So far as the spread-sheet is concerned, I would sack anyone earning more than $100,000 and direct that savings into the provision of a more effective community and national news service.

            But … yeah, the funder. I guess there has to be a slant towards patriotism and heritage and an abiding respect for parliament and the courts, our kaumatua and our children. There’s a need to “stay positive” and bouyant but also speak truth.

            (Also, while The Boss, I would get my expense card out and thrash it every night of the week shouting the staff free drinks/meals/art/training and taxis home. When the media come to ask me about it I’ll say: “yeah, so what?”)
        • Rogue Trooper 26.1.2.2

          18 October 2012 at 9:43 pm

          Love the Ted Knight characterisation

          -Lou (Ed)
27. ianmac 27

    18 October 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Franks is predictable and so is McLeod. Weird and dangerous is one and the other sounds like my 90 year old Grandmother.
    • Morrissey 27.1

      18 October 2012 at 5:15 pm

      The real problem is why Radio New Zealand still interviews Franks and McVicar.

      Is your grandmother as complacent and smarmy as Rosemary McLeod, Ian? I’m sure you’re being hard on her.
      • ianmac 27.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 6:36 pm

        My Grandma was pretty self reliant and sensible. But like Rosemary, she had great difficulty understanding modern stuff like TV or jet travel or modern dress. But she was very tolerant in a trembling manner where Rosemary condemns as she confirms her ignorance and bigotry.
        So score Nana @ 90+years 8/10. Rosemary sounds like 90+years 1/10.
28. Morrissey 28

    18 October 2012 at 5:22 pm

    HUMANITARIAN GOVERNMENT NEWS

    Israel forced to release study on Gaza blockade
    17 October 2012

    An Israeli court has forced the release of government research detailing the number of calories Palestinians in Gaza need to consume to avoid malnutrition.

    The study was commissioned after Israel tightened its blockade of the territory after Hamas came to power in June 2007.

    The UN said if the research reflected a policy intended to cap food imports, it went against humanitarian principles.

    If you have the stomach for it, you can read more here….

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19975211
29. Georgecom 29

    18 October 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Has there been a previous NZ government which has had such a gaff prone, disaster prone, crisis prone year in power that this John Key Government has?

    Every month it seems to lurch from gaff, to crisis, to disaster.

    Keys lack of leadership and ‘relaxation’ is now costing him dearly.

    The ‘higher standards’ have gone out the door and he is now twisting and turning like mad to try and avoid gaff after crisis.

    What more can eventuate in the next 2 1/2 months to dent public support for Key and his Govt?

    Still enough time in the year for another gaff or crisis yet.
    • ianmac 29.1

      18 October 2012 at 6:41 pm

      Am looking forward to Key’s explanation over the 18y vote. He will blame the Whip or whoever cast his proxy (maybe the Whip didn’t quite know what Key’s position was given his ambivalence?), or maybe it is David Shearer’s fault. or the Speaker or ummm TV3 asked him the wrong question.
      • Logie97 29.1.1

        18 October 2012 at 7:05 pm

        His explanation beggars belief.
        Tonight, his media interviews show him saying, “I should have been more specific, I actually should have added after I said 20, ‘that was offlicence sales’.”
        Unfortunately the interviewers did not take him to task.

        In yesterday’s Beehive precincts interview he was very specific.
        He said, ” I voted for a split vote 18 and 20, but that one was defeated, and I then voted for 20.” Key lied there and then. An absolute liar on this one and he needs to be pulled on it. The voting record shows it.

        Tonight his explanation at no time mentions that he voted 18 when the split vote (which he tries to use as the excuse) failed.

        Now just perhaps NZ will take a closer look at his other occasions of being economical with the truth.

        Trust him … sure can???
      • ScottGN 29.1.2

        18 October 2012 at 7:40 pm

        He seems to have decided to apologize on this ‘brain fade’ and try and move on – probably the best (and only) thing to do. What was interesting was that both networks had different stories tonight which cast him in a poor light. He ain’t having much fun anymore.
        • Logie97 29.1.2.1

          18 October 2012 at 9:08 pm

          Except that he has admitted to only partial error. He has not accepted that his response yesterday was clear and precise. He has never admitted to voting for keeping it at 18 though that is what he clearly voted for. (Clear case of wanting to sound as though he voted according to his adoring people’s wishes in latest poll – but he didn’t).

          This is 10 year old playground stuff. Think you are getting caught out and go into denial… teachers will tell you they witness it every day.
    • Draco T Bastard 29.2

      18 October 2012 at 6:46 pm

      The ‘higher standards’ have gone out the door…

      No, they were just another lie. The character of the National Party is psychopathic and so they could not be anything else.
30. Morrissey 30

    18 October 2012 at 5:54 pm

    The ‘higher standards’ have gone out the door…

    What?!!??!?!?? When were higher standards ever IN the door with this embarrassingly inept and ideologically extremist regime?
    • georgecom 30.1

      19 October 2012 at 12:23 pm

      Before the 2008 elections, but not since.
31. joe90 31

    18 October 2012 at 6:52 pm

    George McGovern, former Senator, presidential nominee and opponent of the Vietnam war is on his way out.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ex-senator-presidential-nominee-mcgovern-no-longer-responsive-191525402.html

    Every Senator in this chamber is partly responsible for sending 50,000 young Americans to an early grave. This chamber reeks of blood. Every Senator here is partly responsible for that human wreckage at Walter Reed and Bethesda Naval and all across our land—young men without legs, or arms, or genitals, or faces or hopes. There are not very many of these blasted and broken boys who think this war is a glorious adventure. Do not talk to them about bugging out, or national honor or courage. It does not take any courage at all for a congressman, or a senator, or a president to wrap himself in the flag and say we are staying in Vietnam, because it is not our blood that is being shed. But we are responsible for those young men and their lives and their hopes. And if we do not end this damnable war those young men will some day curse us for our pitiful willingness to let the Executive carry the burden that the Constitution places on us
32. Dv 32

    18 October 2012 at 8:42 pm

    From parliament today
    Hon Nanaia Mahuta: What criteria will be used to determine the funding and staffing level provisions for charter schools?

    Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Each school’s contract will differ according to the needs of the sponsor,

    My bold.

    I thought schools were for the NEEDS of the pupils not the ‘sponsors’
33. lprent 33

    18 October 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Time to do a Pete George. Put a “more in sorrow than anger” ‘rant’ hidden where few people ever see it.

    I guess Cameron Slater saw my addition to this post where I pointed out the obvious…

    

    His response to criticism about his techniques – well that is as puerile as it is possible to get. I guess he doesn’t handle criticism well..

    

    He left a trackback, so I guess he wanted me to see it.

    But of course I don’t “hate” the wee man. So he can be rest assured on that as he does his usual pass through here looking for stories to put up. BTW: his posts never seem to get any significant numbers of comments – why is that?.

    I just think he is an extreme example of having an oversized ego and very few (if any) observable talents. Certainly logical thinking isn’t one of them. His political abilities seem to mostly consist of blustering on others hitting them with that bloated ego. In short – a political dickhead.
    • PlanetOrphan 33.1

      18 October 2012 at 9:00 pm

      That maggot sure can pack bigotry into a sentence can’t he M8.
      (heh … He almost replied to this one…. save me LP!)
      (*he-is-not-that-good*,*he-is-not-that-good*,*he-is-not-that-good*,*he-is-not-that-good*,….) 😀 @ u CS M8!
34. starlight 34

    18 October 2012 at 9:02 pm

    The headline on tvnz says that ‘Key in the dark over superanuation review’
    A minister in key’s cabinet seems to be questioning key’s stance on national
    superanuation and now one of key’s ministers wants the issue formally looked
    at by retirement commissioner Diana Crossan.
    Craig Foss gave the go ahead for Diana Crossan to look at the issue.
    Key was on one news and looked suprised when asked about the issue.
    • ianmac 34.1

      18 October 2012 at 11:23 pm

      Yes. Saw that on the late news. Craig Foss authorised the review which includes the age of entitlement which Key flatly opposes. So The Prime Minister is out of step with Minister Foss.

      Plus the 18 year old vote. There can be no doubt as the absent Minister signs a piece of paper to authorise his proxy vote.

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