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Open mike 19/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 19th, 2013 - 207 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

207 comments on “Open mike 19/06/2013”

  1. I understand the next Roy Morgan poll results are out today. I suspect that with even more interest than usual the results will be poured over and conclusions will be offered.

    Has National’s continuous assault on our rights and our constitutional norms persuaded enough people that they should be tossed out of office? Is David Shearer appealing to enough people as a leader in waiting? Has Phil Goff, Annette King, Kris Faafoi and Clayton Cosgrove’s frankly embarrassing decision to enjoy Sky City’s Eden Park hospitality had an effect on Labour’s support? Has Winston Peters’ theatrics improved his party’s standing? Is the Green Party’s disciplined and principled approach to policy resulting in gains? Is everyone getting too excited by a poll over 12 months away from the next election or should we be caring about the results now?

    Labour will be looking for a good result. If they do not get one and if Key and his minions still look like they will win the next election then Labour needs to have a cup of tea and a rethink.

    • JK 1.1

      And pigs might fly, Mickey. Labour’s senior MPs have “gone rogue” – it happens in corporates, and it obviously can happen in politics if there is not a strong leader in place. If Labour doesn’t get a good result in the poll, they’ll just shrug it off and continue as before. The Greens are looking more and more attractive as the alternative to vote for.

    • Winston Smith 1.2

      Much as I’d like to announce its National all the way I’m not even going to hazard a guess on what the polls will say

    • gobsmacked 1.3

      The last Morgan poll was probably an outlier (National 41%) so even if the result is bad for National (e.g. 42%) the headline will be “National up in latest poll”. The details will be more interesting, therefore ignored.

    • Enough is Enough 1.4

      “Has Phil Goff, Annette King, Kris Faafoi and Clayton Cosgrove’s frankly embarrassing decision to enjoy Sky City’s Eden Park hospitality had an effect on Labour’s support?”

      I don’t think so.

      Can Labour’s support get any worse?

      I suggest the 32-35% of people who still support Labour will always support Labour no matter how useless they are. We have a hard core tribal Labour core who just vote red every time. Unconditional support in an organisation that losts its compass in 1984 and has never really refound it.

      • Arfamo 1.4.1

        Labour’s fucked – lost its way and full of 1%ers in Parliament or on boards of businesses or NGOs creaming it, using all the tools of the wealthy to retain and hide their wealth and influence, doing fuck all for ordinary citizens but making sure their MPs and party hierarchy get plenty of gravy. Core support is low for good reason. Somewhere along the way soon the Greens should rebrand to exorcise the “crazy hippy anti business tree hugger” propaganda effect, which I think has been pedalled out to the public for so long now by the right in both Labour and National/Act it’s well embedded in the subconscious of enough voters to be effective in preventing many from looking into exactly how this party is becoming what Labour used to be – a party that is actively planning and testing and refining how it might actually be able to govern for the interests and betterment of the whole electorate, including the business sector. Labour could well end up becoming a minor support party before fading into history.

        • weka 1.4.1.1

          “Somewhere along the way soon the Greens should rebrand to exorcise the “crazy hippy anti business tree hugger” propaganda effect,”

          How do you propose they do that (more than they already have) without alienating their membership and core voters?

          • Arfamo 1.4.1.1.1

            Slowly, thoughtfully, and carefully, the way they are doing it now. They don’t need to convince their existing support base they have changed. They only need to convince swinging or lost voters they have a better alternative to Labour’s lost direction and audience. Labour has to convince those same voters they can be trusted. Their MPs keep showing the electorate they can’t. Every departure of one of their MPs elsewhere looks like rats leaving the sinking ship.

            • Arfamo 1.4.1.1.1.1

              A name change would be essential. Green is the source of the tree-hugger myths, and a word with a common meaning of inexperienced or naive. They are now none of these things. They have principles. They have articulate leaders and MPs and they understand better how to use media than Labour leaders do. IMO anyway. They are setting the few good parts of Labour’s agenda.

              • Morrissey

                A name change would be essential. Green is the source of the tree-hugger myths, and a word with a common meaning of inexperienced or naive.

                What utter nonsense. This spurious obsession with branding reminds me of the call by some Roger Douglas-type nitwits in the early 1980s to change the name of the Labour Party to the Social Democrati Party.

                At the time, party chairman Jim Anderton scotched the foolish talk, saying that unlike the Lange-Douglas loons, he did not feel ashamed of his connections with workers, and there was nothing shameful about the idea of work.

                • Arfamo

                  Don’t be so green :)

                  Ok, maybe its not essential. But I think it might be a good idea. Time will tell. Labour didn’t come from nothing and it initially represented labour. Its name makes it easy to demonise as a party for blue collar workers. Which is what happens. But which is laughable because it went through a period of representing the top end of town. Now it has no idea who it represents, nor do I.

        • Saarbo 1.4.1.2

          “Somewhere along the way soon the Greens should rebrand…”

          Yes, its an interesting point you make regarding branding. Branding is that intangible thing that is holding Labour up and holding the Greens back I suspect. The Greens are considerably more cohesive and principled than Labour (the current Labour that is), and Labour’s leadership doesn’t come close and yet the Greens continue to only attract 11% while Labour attract mid 30%.

          I suspect that Labour can only milk its brand equity for so long before we see some big drops in their support. And conversely some big improvements in Greens support.

          • Tim 1.4.1.2.1

            Silver perhaps? with maybe a fern. And a Labour Green alliance could brand itself with a flowering Pohutukawa.
            Its a sad state of affairs when it all comes down to branding, but I accept that these days – it does.

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.4.1.2.1.1

              Screw the branding Labour has a brand that had stood the test of time.

              It’s the policies and what the current crop of politicians believe in and stand for that is the problem.

              It’s the disconnect between prostituting the 8 hour working day, 40 hour working week, state housing for life, etc on their website and the current neo-Labour beliefs that is the problem.

              Still calling themselves neo-Labour solves the problem and would distinguish themselves from anyone who actually has left Labour values.

              Russell Brand has a bit to say on the image type of bullshit that those in power want us to buy into:

              http://gawker.com/russell-brand-destroys-msnbc-talk-show-host-for-treatin-513992493

              In an episode of Brain Games it’s also interesting to see how people picked the winner of electoral campaigns by how the people looked. Let us not sink that low.

      • gorj 1.4.2

        It was worse at the 2011 election… (27.5%)

    • Saarbo 1.5

      “Labour will be looking for a good result. If they do not get one and if Key and his minions still look like they will win the next election then Labour needs to have a cup of tea and a rethink.”

      Agree 100% Micky.

  2. lprent 2

    The creation of a backup imaging of the database appears to have stopped the database accepting connection from the server last night at about 0300. I missed the alarm because my cellphone was powerless.

    Now I have to figure out how to either stop that happening or to make sure that it restarts itself. And how to ensure that I get the alarms

    • karol 2.1

      Well, I guess at 3am there wouldn’t be many trying to read TS. And you didn’t get your sleep interrupted (unless you were working through the night on something else).

  3. Arfamo 3

    Greens Ditch Quantitative Easing Policy:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10891557

    Interesting development.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Labour/David Parker refused to back the policy. Too radical. They dont think the NZ public is smart enough to see that the world is already printing like mad.

      But like the Green’s CGT, Labour will run with it later. In 4-6 years time. It is, as they say, an inevitability.

    • bad12 3.2

      All hail the cheap flat-screen tv and i-phone, i can understand the Green Party position on ‘printing money’, being the ‘junior party’ in the future coalition Government means that some policy is put aside as not worth dying in a ditch over,

      Is printing money radical or the cause of massive inflation, such can only be described as radical if we are to believe that the Governments of Europe,Japan and the US are such radical organizations,

      Massive inflation from ‘printing money’???, where is such inflation, the US has been ‘printing’ massive amounts of dollars for 5 years now along with Europe and the Japanese, can any of those opposed to ‘money printing’ on the grounds of massive inflation explain to us where and when this massive inflation is to occur???

      Had we as a country at the outset of the Global financial crisis ‘printed’ instead of ‘borrowed’ the 100-300 million dollars a week shortfall in Government revenue there would not at this moment be a debt ‘mountain’ of some 60-80 billion dollars,

      The efficacy of ‘printing money’ at such times of unforeseen shortfalls in Government revenue have now been well proven by those countries that have taken such measures,

      The Government need only have ‘printed’ it’s shortfall in revenue along with X amount of dollars which would have covered lowering the taxation on fuel as the nett lowering of the NZ$ caused by the 100-300 million dollar weekly printing pushed up the price of imported fuels,

      Instead we now have a Government debt best described in mountainous terms,and, cheap i-pads and flat-screens, you all can now feel an extreme amount of guilt every time you use such appliances…

      • aerobubble 3.2.1

        Its not so simple. Given the full policy platform of the Greens QE would be stablizing, but presently it arguable that it would set off a housing collapse. Look I’m no economist but the way I could see the economy is as an organism, fattened and lazy from cheap oil and cheap credit but bleed by countless cuts to the rule of law, regulations, rights, social cohesion (aka neo-liberalism). While the cheap juice from oil and the even more spectacular leverage of cheap credit, the body could take the cutting, but now energy and resource, aging and climate change, have turned the invincible ninnies into shit scared dopes. QE without re-regulation, higher taxes, without rebuilding the organism of the economy (or building a new economy broadband – not happening at present prices and the promise of market rigidity and rigging that is so come place in NZ) then any QE printing goes straight out the open wounds. That’s why the US has been joined by Japan, EU in printing and its still going on, their inertia politics that set in once their revolution had gotten its wish list is very hard to remove.

        Bring in capital gains, raise taxation on the riches, close loopholes, get state house building ramping up, then QE becomes very stablizing as it re-balances the money held by the wealthy back to middle NZ.

        The Greens weren’t wrong to highlight QE because it needed highlighting, aka US. And its a good policy to have around, just emphasis a bit better when it would be used and how, investors don’t mine a hit as long as its necessary, good in the medium to long term and isn’t going to be ongoing.
        Why is the NZZ dollar so high, because investors hate QE in the US, and why would it cause a housing bubble burst because paying the interest on the private nz debt without foriegn investment…

        anyway that’s my guess estimate.

        • McFlock 3.2.1.1

          Not a bad analogy – add a little hypertension in the housing market, and the fat, unfit economy might pop a vein if it tries to do vigorous exercise without everything else being taken into account, too.

    • Tangled up in blue 3.3

      Great news. That was one of the few Green Party policies I didn’t like.

      • bad12 3.3.1

        Care to explain why you didn’t like that particular policy???…

        • Tangled up in blue 3.3.1.1

          The large majority of NZ economists I’ve read on the issue claim that our economy is not in the right context to be considering QE yet. I.e. we’ve got other conventional monetary policy tools to use first, our Official Cash Rate while historically low still has room to move and our economy isn’t in crisis.

          • bad12 3.3.1.1.1

            Have you got any links to such an assertion ”the large majority of NZ economists etc”, you don’t see an economy carrying 60-80 billion dollars of Government debt as a crisis???,

            There were 2 paths this Government could have taken vis a vis addressing the effects of the Global Financial Crisis, borrow or print, i would say that given the choice made we not only face a Government with a debt crisis we also face a government with a crisis of intelligence, lack of it that is…

            • Tangled up in blue 3.3.1.1.1.1

              OTOH Gareth Morgan, Bollard, Noland, John McDermott David Mayes vs Nana.

              I think comparatively NZ’s not in crisis. Though we could have been in a lot better position now had it not been for Key and National. Also I think short-term borrowing is a good choice given the amount of debt Cullen paid off though it should have went along with a CGT, extending the pension age without income tax cuts.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Also I think short-term borrowing is a good choice…

                It’s not as all it does is unnecessarily add to the cost to run our government. The reality is that if our government printed our money (with adequate controls of course) it would never have to borrow at all, our money would stabilise in the forex markets and we’d be less in debt than we are.

                • Tangled up in blue

                  Yeah that’s the theory. Though it’s not as uncontroversial as you’re suggesting and would be unusual to bring in with our OCR where it is and also not without big financial risks.

                  I guess it’s all a bit moot now because not even our innovative Greens are willing to pursue it.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    The OCR would be dropped as there would be no need of it – the private banks would no longer be creating the money.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1.1.2

            The large majority of NZ economists…

            The large majority of economists that completely failed to predict the GFC? Yeah, I wouldn’t listen to them as they wouldn’t know what an economy was if they tripped over one.

            we’ve got other conventional monetary policy tools to use first,

            Actually, no we don’t. We have the OCR and that’s it.

            The government printing money wouldn’t destabilise the economy at all and our economy is in crisis – that’s what that high unemployment and degrading industrialisation means.

          • KJT 3.3.1.1.3

            Yeah. Raise the OCR. Bring in another lot of hot money to raise house prices, raise interest rates to kill our few remaining manufacturers and push the dollar higher.

            Great!

            QE is a much better option.

            • Gosman 3.3.1.1.3.1

              Seems like not even the Greens agree this policy is worth dying in a ditch over. Perhaps you could get Hone to take up the idea. I would like that very much.

  4. bad12 4

    Fluoridation???, according to the Wikipedia only 5.7% of the worlds population use fluoridated water, (that’s the stuff that’s added by government/councils as opposed to what occurs naturally in water),

    Approximately 1/2 the New Zealand population use regularly fluoridated water, (where’s the studies showing that those who do not have added fluoride in their water have grossly worse rates of tooth decay than those that do),

    From all that i have read any beneficial effects of fluoride added to water would only occur while such water is held in the mouth, so drinking fluoridated water would have minimal beneficial effects,

    The supposed beneficial effects of fluoride have of course occurred during the same period as the uptake and use of fluoridated toothpastes have occurred and in my opinion claims of better dental out-comes occurring because of fluoridation are at best dubious,

    http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fluoridation_by_country

    • McFlock 4.1

      Interesting report here. Check out pp305–7, comparing oral health in kids between schools in fluoridated and non-fluoridated areas.

    • Tangled up in blue 4.2

      Some good information over at SciBlogs:

      fluoridation (where did science communication go wrong?) – http://sciblogs.co.nz/bioblog/2013/06/06/fluoridation-where-did-science-communication-go-wrong/
      Water Fluoridation – the emotional tail wags the dog in Hamilton – http://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimmunity/2013/06/05/water-fluoridation-the-emotional-tail-wags-the-dog-in-hamilton/
      Tactics and common arguments of the anti-fluoridationists- http://sciblogs.co.nz/open-parachute/2013/06/07/tactics-and-common-arguments-of-the-anti-fluoridationists/
      Fluoridation – Mass Medication or a Societal Benefit? – http://sciblogs.co.nz/molecular-matters/2013/06/08/fluoridation-mass-medication-or-a-societal-benefit/
      Fluoridation – are we dumping toxic metals into our water supplies? – http://sciblogs.co.nz/open-parachute/2013/06/11/fluoridation-are-we-dumping-toxic-metals-into-our-water-supplies/
      fluoridation: those pesky facts – http://sciblogs.co.nz/bioblog/2013/06/12/fluoridation-those-pesky-facts/

      • weka 4.2.1

        from the first link

        Right now I’m beginning to think that those of us who are science educators & communicators have done something very wrong, because in the summary of ‘views against’ I see things like this (emphasis in the original):

        A key sub-theme that emerged within this topic was the view that fluoride is a chemical or poison.

        Yes, fluoride is a chemical. So are table salt & dihydrogen monoxide**. So often we see the term ‘chemical’ used in a pejorative sense, ignoring the fact that everything on the planet, ourselves included, is at some level a concatenation of chemicals. Incidentally, in the right – or should that be wrong? – quantities all are toxic: drinking too much water can be fatal.

        I haven’t read the rest of the article yet, and will be interested to see where they go with the idea that scientists have a communication problem, because it’s right there in those paragraphs. Scientists use the word ‘chemical’ to mean one thing, lay people use it in a different way. In the paragraphs above is the classic problem – some scientists want everyone to use words the way they use them, rather than understanding that good communication is about how people negotiate meaning. Really dumb and unhelpful.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1

          It’s an interesting approach to say that this is the result of a “science communication problem”. Maybe it’s the result of a science credibility problem.

          If it’s one and not the other, then its a whole other thing going on.

          • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1

            Could just be a case of casting pearls before swine, or seeds onto stony ground, etc.

            • weka 4.2.1.1.1.1

              lolz. That’s right, if you’re not a scientist you are a stupid ingrate. As we all know, scientists are better than everyone else and should be in charge of everything ;-p

              • McFlock

                I recall reading an article in Times Higher Education Supplement about the communication gap between “spoon feeding” and “mind reading”, i.e. lecturers thinking they’ve given more than enough information while many students are still completely lost.

                While it was a valid point and interesting article,the cynic in me thinks that there’s not enough time in the universe to adequately explain some issues to some folk, however loud or adept at creating websites they might be.

                • weka

                  True enough, but the problem is that those people at the extreme end of the spectrum get sympathy from those closer to the middle specifically because too many scientists have been arrogant and disconnected from every day reality. So sure, write off the tinfoil hat brigade. But you’re still also losing a huge chunk of the population who are capable of rational thought and critical thinking (and lay science education) who are really sick of being told that they are stupid by scientists.

          • weka 4.2.1.1.2

            It’s an interesting approach to say that this is the result of a “science communication problem”. Maybe it’s the result of a science credibility problem.

            If it’s one and not the other, then its a whole other thing going on.

            Could be both, in varying proportions. I tend to think it is both, but I do have some sympathy for scientists who have to deal with a largely scientifically illiterate population. That is a both a communication issue and an education one. On the other hand, science as it is practiced is deeply flawed and people are right to be suspicious and untrusting in many cases, esp when they are being told to trust on the basis of faith.

      • Macro 4.2.2

        The pro side of fluoridation is that appears to be of some benefit for primary school aged children. There is no benefit to people once their secondary teeth are formed. I say it “appears” – because the oral health of children in developed countries has been improving at a steady rate since the 1930’s. Whether or not the countries have fluoridated water supplies. Good oral health is more a factor of of good nutrition, regular brushing and, and regular dental hygiene. As the average number of caries per child drops, the percentage differences between one group and another increases. For example the percentage difference between no caries and 1 filling is 100%, the percentage difference between 2 caries and 3 is 50% and so forth. The average number of filled teeth for children aged between 6 to 13 is around 3. A a 30 % increase over normal would mean 4 fillings rather than 3. So what we are talking about is the mass medication of the entire population to prevent one or two fillings in a small proportion of the population who may or may not benefit. Maybe they prefer to drink soft drinks rather than water when they get home from school.

        The negative side of fluoridation is dismissed out of hand by those who support it. However there are certain issues that are not addressed by either the Ministry of Health or those medical professionals that champion the cause of fluoridation. Note that there is an increasing number of medical and scientific opinion that challenges the conventional wisdom that fluoridation at current levels is safe.

        Firstly town supplies in NZ that are fluoridated add Hydrofluorosilicic Acid at the rate of 0.01 g/l. The recommended maximum dosage for H2F6Si is 0.02g/kg. A young infant bottle fed on infant formula mixed with fluoridated water will exceed the maximum dosage daily. The EPA in the USA has recently recommended that fluoridation be dropped from 0.01 g/l to 0.007 g/l.

        Secondly there are 36 studies that show a correlation between fluoridation and reduced scores on standard IQ tests.

        It should come as no surprise that fluorine is to be found in soft tissue as well as bone tissue. It is know to accumulate in the thyroid, replacing iodine, and the pituitary gland.

        The ability of the body to excrete fluoride ions is impaired in persons with chronic kidney disorders, up to 1/7 of the population.

        Finally fluorosilicates are not the same as fluoride. They are supposed to disassociate at pH of 7 but the human gut has a pH of around 2-3. And at that level of acidity few Fluoride ions are available.

        This was the information presented to the Hamilton Council. The Ministry of Health and the pro fluoride lobby had ample opportunity to refute these concerns, but were unable to do so.

        The simple fact remains that for a large proportion of the population fluoridation is unnecessary and the target population is comparatively small. It is to take a sledge hammer to crack a nut. There are better ways to achieve the same outcome.

        • lprent 4.2.2.1

          Wisdom teeth?

          My one wisdom tooth grew in while I was in a city with inadequate fluoride. It rotted out less than a decade later. Needless to say that is the only one I have lost like that.

          You may need to extend your ages and population sizes somewhat. Or do mandatory extraction of all wisdom teeth?

          :twisted:

          • Macro 4.2.2.1.1

            The EU study into Fluoridation conducted in 2011 by the Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks of the European Commission states in summary “There is no clear advantage of water fluoridation over direct application for prevention, and systemic exposure via drinking water is unlikely to benefit people whose teeth have already grown. Europe-wide trends show a reduction in tooth decay in 12 year-olds regardless of whether water is fluoridated or not.”

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1.1.1

              And this is the key. If you are going to compulsorily mass medicate a large population, all issues of importance sure better be beyond reasonable doubt. And there is no way that threshold is reached on the issue of fluoridation.

        • Tangled up in blue 4.2.2.2

          The World Health Organisation, the World Dental Federation, the International Association for Dental Research and the overwhelming majority (if not all) of health and health promotion agencies promote the fluoridation of water. Over in Victoria Australia they’re spending Au$3.6 million to build more fluoridation plants across rural parts of their State. It’s fine to have a healthy skepticism for science but to claim you are right and the near consensus of scientists are wrong is a conspiracy theory.

          • bad12 4.2.2.2.1

            94.3% of the world does not fluoridate it’s water over and above what is naturally found in water,

            The 5.3% of the world that does knows better right???…

            • Tangled up in blue 4.2.2.2.1.1

              That comment is intellectually dishonest at best.

              For starters, wouldn’t the amount of regions that can fluoridate water but haven’t, and also the areas that have stopped fluoridating; have been more pertinent? And secondly, (as you very well know) the percentage of people not drinking fluoridated water isn’t some sort of public peer review system for the mountain of studies supporting the safety and benefits of fluoridation.

              Seriously, people thinking that they know better than the majority of scientists is silly.

              • Colonial Viper

                It’s fine to have a healthy skepticism for science but to claim you are right and the near consensus of scientists are wrong is a conspiracy theory.

                Any educated people in Germany or Austria? Scientists too? Are Austria and Germany advanced western economies? Do they have their own dental schools and train their own dentists?

                Well newsflash: these countries do not fluoridate their water, but they do make available some fluoridated toothpastes and salt.

                Further, on German unification, the new government ordered the East German authorities which were fluoridating water to cease doing so. And that’s the way it has been ever since.

                And just 50% of NZers don’t drink fluoridated water so the ‘consensus amongst scientists’ apparently only carries so much weight.

                • rosy

                  I thought this [.pdf] was a reasonable summary of the reasons behind the decline in dental caries in Western Europe.

                  – Preventative dentistry (even NZ gets a mention with free school-based dental care for kids – note – report is dated 2004)
                  – Fluoridation – whether topical, tablets or in water, salt etc
                  – Better brushing
                  – Cost of toothbrushes/fluoridated toothpaste is reasonable (compared to the cost in Eastern Europe where this is one of the reasons for poorer dental health)
                  – Socio-economic differences – poor people and migrants from outside Western Europe have worse dental health. Also noted were the geographic disparities in UK, with the south-east (more affluent) having better dental health.

                  My view is that most people don’t need fluoridated water for dental health in NZ (I have no problem with the safety aspects), but if it’s going to be removed then other preventative measures must be ensured for kids who would otherwise not get the fluoride their teeth need.

                • KJT

                  Isn’t it that fluoride occurs naturally in the water in most countries.

                  NZ water and soils are markedly deficient in trace elements.
                  Including many we need for better health.

                  Too pure. If you like!

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Isn’t it that fluoride occurs naturally in the water in most countries.

                    Yes, but only in very specific waterways or bodies of water. Which usually means that 5% or fewer people in that country will benefit.

          • weka 4.2.2.2.2

            “but to claim you are right and the near consensus of scientists are wrong is a conspiracy theory.”

            No, it’s not. It’s disagreeing with the consensus. Conspiracy theories require the idea that the WHO, WDF, etc conspired in secret to fluoridate the water in certain populations for nefarious ends. Now, it is true that there are people who believe this (that fluoridation is used intentionally to dumb down the population). But it’s not true to say that everyone who opposes fluoridation believes that, or is a conspiracy theorist.

            There is nothing in macro’s comment that even hints at conspiracy. I know that this is hard for some people to hear, but sometimes organisations relying on science get it wrong. Sometimes massively. In this case I don’t believe that the MoH, dental/medical associations etc are evil or manipulative. I think that they work from a specific world view about what health is, what risk is, and engage in confirmation bias as a result.

            The easiest way to understand this is to look at another big example that doesn’t have the associations with the tinfoil hat brigade. Look at the history of the fat hypothesis. Here’s the best introduction. In it award winning science journalist Gary Taubes examines how the fat hypothesis (that saturated fat causes heart disease) came into being due to factors other than good science.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.2.2.1

              I know that this is hard for some people to hear, but sometimes organisations relying on science get it wrong.

              It’s like a mass socialised amnesia, actually. And ignoring that the operation of science in our society is highly entrenched in personalities, politics, profits, and power bases.

              Consider everything from the original “food pyramid” to thalidomide to vioxx to superbugs to the early version of the MMR vaccine which caused fatal/near fatal fevers amongst infants.

              But now in this modern age, THIS TIME we have it RIGHT…you can trust us on that!!!

              • NickS

                :roll:

                Oh to be able to send you to Dunedin to do a history and philosophy course…

              • NickS

                History and philosophy of Science course that is /d’oh

                • Colonial Viper

                  Shall I keep going?

                  FDA approved breast implants full of industrial silicon, meningitis vaccines which only protect infants for months (if that) not the school years parents were promised, 20 to 30 747’s full of patients dying daily in USA hospitals due to problems directly caused by the medical care given, huge swathes of medical literature absolutely untrustworthy because it turns out they were ghostwritten, and the medical researchers named on the papers simply paid to put their names there.

                  Shall we keep going?

                  For over a century, standard procedure with any medical patient was to bleed them, automatically tripling the risk of death, medical doctors of the day saw their patients dying day after day everyday, but kept doing it because all their peers were doing it and refused to upset accepted practice.

                  But now you’re saying just TRUST US we have our facts and figures right THIS TIME?!

                  I wonder what your PHILOSOPHY course going to say about this?

        • weka 4.2.2.3

          Great comment macro.

          “Finally fluorosilicates are not the same as fluoride. They are supposed to disassociate at pH of 7 but the human gut has a pH of around 2-3. And at that level of acidity few Fluoride ions are available.”

          Can you please explain what that means in lay terms?

          • NickS 4.2.2.3.1

            Not really, the lack of links backing him up is the give away, as per usual…

            As for the disassociation stuff, hydrogen atoms attached to an acidic functional molecule or group have given pH thresholds before they disassociate from it to form a H+ ion. Same thing happens with bases.

            • weka 4.2.2.3.1.1

              I asked for an explanation a lay person could understand.

              • NickS

                Sometimes, you have to google/wiki a term if you don’t know what it means :P

                • weka

                  If you aren’t able to explain in lay terms that’s fine, but please don’t complain about lay people not having enough understanding of science.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    It basically means that the fluorosilicates need a neutral pH level to split up from the silicon based part of the chemical, and therefore make free fluoride ion parts available to the body.

                    But the state of the stomach is highly acidic, so fuck all of the fluorosilicates actually split up, so in reality only a tiny amount of the fluoride ions are freed up and available to the body.

                    Hey weka, you know you mentioned that thing about ‘scientific arrogance’?

                    In action, right here on The Standard, by certain know it all types.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Yet more evidence that scientific literacy in this country is woefully poor. No wonder crackpots (anti-caccination, anti-flouridation, anti iodised salt, chemtrails, homeopaths etc) get traction.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Stop whinging mate. You might want genetic material and proteins sourced from aborted fetuses or animal organs injected into your blood, but not everyone feels the same way.

                    • NickS

                      You might want genetic material and proteins sourced from aborted fetuses or animal organs injected into your blood

                      [citation needed]

                      Also – random bits of DNA/RNA floating unprotected by certain proteins, tend to get digested up parts of the innate immune system (DICER is one) and cell membranes typically have to be treated to become permeable to DNA/RNA. Which is why viruses are often used to do genetic transforms

                    • NickS

                      Knowledge decays if you don’t have cause to use it and so strengthen the neural connections that allow you to recall and remember it. And most people don’t need to understand pH disassociation or basic toxicology stuff.

                      Probably the only way around it in the longterm is decent documentaries being easily available that provide straight forward, easy to get and interesting science education. Which TVNZ seems to have abandoned making use, instead going for reality TV doco’s.

                  • NickS

                    More aiming for you to try and do some research :P

          • Macro 4.2.2.3.2

            This is part of the presentation I gave References are appended:
            “It is simply assumed that all fluoride compounds dissociate entirely into fluoride ions, and harmless hydration compounds of silicon. Pure fluoride solutions do behave relatively predictably, both over the permissible pH range of municipal water supplies and in the extremely acidic environment of the human stomach. However, fluorosilicates dissociate in highly complex fashion in water, with an amazing range of complex derivatives forming at different pH values, none of whose toxicological properties has been adequately investigated. When fluorosilicates are added to water they dissociate to form fluorosilicate ions with two negative electrical charges, accompanied by either two individual ions of hydrogen H+ (from fluorosilicic acid) or of sodium (Na+) (from sodium fluorosilicate). The individual elements, silicon (Si) and fluorine (F) in the fluorosilicate ion cannot move independently – at neutral pH they act as the complex substance fluorosilicate.
            Fluorosilicates are therefore emphatically not identical to ‘fluorides’. In fact, fluorosilicates should not be referred to as ‘silicofluoride’, because this improperly implies that they are fluorides and have similar properties. This argument is often used to mislead audiences into believing that fluorosilicates are chemically interchangeable with true fluorides, and that adding fluorosilicate to drinking water is merely a ‘topping up’ process to augment fluoride concentrations below the ‘optimal’ level for preventing tooth decay.
            When simple fluorides are dissolved in water, they are in the ionic form, F+, they remain so at all relevant pH levels, whether in pure water or in the acidity of the stomach.
            At around pH of 7, approximately 97% of the fluorine in fluorosilicate added to the water is present in the form of ionised fluoride, F+ . At the very slightly acidic pH of 6, only 27% of the fluorine in fluorosilicate is present as fluoride – the rest is associated with other ions, and forms a number of complex and unstable compounds and ions that change over variable periods of time and at different pH values. At the acidity of the human stomach – pH2 to 3 – the proportion of fluorine atoms that are present as fluoride ions changes dramatically, and effectively no fluorine atoms are present in the ionic state.
            In other words, the ingestion of water fluoridated, with hydro fluorosilicic acid has unknown consequences for dental health, because the chemistry is not known.

            7. Crosby NT; “Equilibria of Fluosilicate Solutions with Special Reference to The Fluoridation of Public Water Supplies”; J Appl Chem; v19; pp 100-102, 1969
            8. Busey RH et al; “Fluorosilicicte Equilibria in Sodium Chloride Solutions from 0 to 60 o C”; Inorg. Chem V 19; pp 758-761, 1980.↵
            9. Urbansky, E.T., and Schock, M.R.. Can fluoridation affect water lead levels and lead neurotoxicity? In: American Water Works Association Annual Conference Proceedings, Denver, CO, June 11-15, 2000↵
            10. Westendorf J. Die Kinetik der Acetylcholinesterasehemmung und die Beeinflussung der Permeabilitat von Erythrozxytenmembranen durch Fluroid und Fluorokomplex-Jonen. Doctoral Dissertation, Hamburg Universitat Hamburg Fachbereich Chemie, 1975.↵
            11. Thomsen, Milton S, High-silica fluosilicic acids : specific reactions and the equilibrium with silica, Am, Chem, Soc. 74 : 1690-1692

        • NickS 4.2.2.4

          Secondly there are 36 studies that show a correlation between fluoridation and reduced scores on standard IQ tests.

          :roll:

          What you fail to mention is that claim only holds up with concentrations of fluoride much higher than what is found with water fluoridate for health reasons, where either fluoride is leaching from surrounding rocks or is contamination from mining/industry. So yeah, ci-fucking-tation please.

          See this for the basics: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

          • NickS 4.2.2.4.1

            One more paper:
            http://cof-cof.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Ding-et-al-The-Relationships-Between-Low-Levels-Of-Urine-Fluoride-On-Children%E2%80%99s-Intelligence.pdf

            There are some effects with lower concentrations though, but for therapeutic purposes, an effective concentration of 0.5mg/L appears to have no harm associated with it. Though Ding et al tie harm to levels of visible dental fluorosis, so I don’t have exact concentration thresholds to cite, and indicate that at moderate and above levels of fluorosis there are statistically significant decreases in average IQ scores. Small, but detectable ones.

            Quite a nice bit of work actually, as the study faced numerous statistical issues due to the environmental and genetic factors that lead to large variation in IQ, plus none even sample sizes.

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.4.1.1

              just get the fluoride you need for your teeth from brushing ffs.

              Oh you already do that every day? Well, you get as much fluoride as your body can possibly find useful already.

              • Populuxe1

                Wouldn’t it be nice if that was the case in all homes in NZ, but nah.

                • Colonial Viper

                  So, maybe only 90% of households use fluoridated toothpastes regularly. What’s your point?

              • NickS

                Basically from what I can remember (me need sleep) tooth paste + fluoridated water = a lot less cavities than either alone.

                Probably because the fluoride ions have better availability to be incorporated via drinking, than from the brief encounter that tooth paste provides. Although using tooth paste does allow for more direct contact with surface enamel, in particular, erosions forming in the enamel.

                /shrug

                Moar hunting for papers methinks…

              • NickS

                Well, you get as much fluoride as your body can possibly find useful already.

                [citation needed]

                • Macro

                  Are your teeth still being formed Nick?
                  Actually if you read the toothpaste tube it says – “do not swallow”. Which I guess is a let out for Colgate et el
                  By the way the active ingredient in fluoridated tooth paste is NaF which as I have referred to above, does provide fluoride ions.

                  But if you are older than 12, your secondary teeth have largely formed. Topical application is the most effective treatment from here on in.
                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2179341
                  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0528.1973.tb01056.x/abstract;jsessionid=8511226BCA8824E5FF983F4A01126D05.d02t01?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

                  • NickS

                    Oh how cute, instead citing recent research/review, let alone papers that aren’t stuck behind paywalls, thus meaning readers can actually read the frakking paper, instead you pick two abstracts out.

                    Why is that a problem? Abstracts only provide the conclusion(s), leaving people without sufficient information to understand how and why the conclusion(s) were reached, along with lacking vital background information.

                    Better stuff to read:
                    http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/44663
                    – page 8 has the info relevant to this thread, otherwise the paper deals with CaF formation and it’s role in fluoride incorporation into the enamel, providing extremely key info on the role of fluoride therapy and it’s mechanisms. Importantly, it concludes that the anti-microbial properties of the F- when disassociated from the enamel plays a major role in caries prevent. However, it doesn’t discuss fluoridation of water, but a synthesis can be drawn from the paper that in place of topical treatment, water fluoridation probably would have significant effects on caries prevention. Albeit not as significant is tooth brushing is not involved, as this action helps to break up bacterial plaques.

                    Very interesting paper imho, took sweet fuck all time to find as well, so why the fuck didn’t you use this one? Oh right – you probably just pulled the papers from a online list, instead of bothering to read teh fucking literature and actually look for key papers T_T

                    There’s also this one:
                    http://cof-cof.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Pizzo-et-al-Community-Water-Fluoridation-And-Caries-Prevention-A-Critical-Review-Clinical-and-Oral-Investigations-14-Feb-2007.pdf
                    From the abstract:

                    The aim of this paper was to critically review the current role of community water fluoridation in preventing dental caries. Original articles and reviews published in English language from January 2001 to June 2006 were selected through MEDLINE database. Other sources were taken from the references of the selected papers. For the past 50 years community water fluoridation has been considered the milestone of caries prevention and as one of the major public health measures of the 20th century. However, it is now accepted that the primary cariostatic action of fluoride occurs after tooth eruption. Moreover, the caries reduction directly attributable to water fluoridation have declined in the last decades as the use of topical fluoride had become more widespread, whereas enamel fluorosis has been reported as an emerging problem in fluoridated areas. Several studies conducted in fluoridated and nonfluoridated communities suggested that this method of delivering fluoride may be unnecessary for caries prevention, particularly in the industrialized countries where the caries level has became low. Although water fluoridation may still be a relevant public health measure in poor and disadvantaged populations, the use of topical fluoride offers an optimal opportunity to prevent caries among people living in both industrialized and developing countries.

                    Time to find – less than 10 minutes.

                    Relevance? Smoking fucking high per the bolded piece.

                    Did you find it? Nope.

                    Back to undergrad science courses for you methinks so you can learn how to use teh literature, hopefully. Instead of picking the odd paper up in hope of relevance in a scattershot, slipshod fashion :roll:

                    Also:
                    http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=fluoridation+review&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5
                    ’tis a freaking goldmine of information, use the “all (number) versions” link to hunt down pdfs. For which the synthesis for the lazy is as follows:

                    1) Fluoridation safety is strongly linked to dosage level, with dosage of below around 1.5mg/L having mainly light dental fluorosis associated with it. Higher concentrations of fluoride are however linked to decreases in IQ and other health concerns, highlighting the need to deal with highly fluoridated public water sources. Cancer-fluoride linkage only holds at very high dosage levels, otherwise no statistical linkage in environmental studies at theraputic dosage levels.

                    2) Fluoridation of public water supplies does have a high efficacy in dealing with dental decay in populations where topical treatment with tooth paste is low or absent. Thus in much of the developed world it’s not entirely needed unless there is a high rate in dental caries within the population. Note however, that even in the developed world some population segments are at high risk due to socio-economic policies, although these could be dealt with via public education and free health care and thus a cost/benefit analysis is needed in each population case*.

                    3) Ethically – if going with the actual science, rather than pseudo-science for basis, the main issue comes down to the ethics of mass-medication, which for the cost/benefit frame I use comes out rather simply e.g. For low dosing of fluoride in the water supply leads in high dental decay populations looks rather good per reducing pain and suffering from tooth decay. Low decay populations don’t needed it, in fact, it would probably be more beneficial to educate the public on dental health further, targeting high-risk population segments.

                    Other frameworks however have obviously different views, depending on how they way emotional/ideological views, as libertarian systems will usually see it as a no, no matter the cost/benefits due to holding the individuals choice high. Nature-based systems will usually focus on the perceived toxicity of fluoride, irrespective of the actual toxicity data. Utilitarian views will range from yes to no, depending on perceived benefits vs social costs and lastly, political frameworks will take into account vox pop, in order to avoid loosing votes, unless swayed by other systems… This however is just a brief, back of the napkin sketch, as ethics and in this case bioethics is extremely rich in terms of arguments around mass medication. So go forth and google it :P

                    ____________________________________________________
                    *e.g. Personally, fluoridation would have probably saved me a lot of pain, as my episode of insomnia a 5 years back cost me two very painful wisdom teeth + subsequent extraction due to difficulties in carrying for self. Still some issues, but will generally brush teeth more often that in previous years due to effects of anti-depressants.

                  • NickS

                    And I so totes <3 how you haven't responded to the bit on fluoride toxicity, which puts your IQ-fluoride claims in fucking context as false for standard therapeutic fluoridation fluoride concentrations.

                    • UglyTruth

                      For some fluoride-IQ context, a friend related how to me how her son was noticeably quiet and withdrawn after he was given fluoride treatment at school. He had no previous exposure to fluoride from water or fluoridated toothpaste.

                    • Arfamo

                      Somehow I don’t think that’s enough to settle the argument though. It amounts to a survey of one without knowing what other factors need to be taken into account, and it’s not clear what becoming quiet and withdrawn tells us about IQ.

                    • NickS

                      Note – UglyTruth is a complete crank, see the site linked to in their name for the whys/lulz.

                      And frankly that anecdote only has one use, to show beautifully how you don’t understand how to science, let alone basic statistical methodology. i.e. the child could be withdrawn because of a variety of reasons, but instead of bothering with such a basic empirical start, you instead assume that the fluoride treatment did it and somehow think withdrawn behaviour is linked to IQ :roll:

                    • UglyTruth

                      “you don’t understand how to science”

                      Misrepresentation fail, NickS. I didn’t suggest that a single anecdote is science.

                      “the child could be withdrawn because of a variety of reasons”

                      Given his sudden exposure to fluoride and the documentation of Nazis using it to make people docile, it is the simplest explanation for his change in behaviour.

                      “somehow think withdrawn behaviour is linked to IQ”

                      Misrepresentation fail #2, NickS. I didn’t imply that.

                    • NickS

                      Except you said this:

                      For some fluoride-IQ context,

                      Lulz. For when put in the context of your post, it’s pretty clear you’re suggesting there was a link, heck, you all but shout it out with the last sentence :chuckle:

                    • UglyTruth

                      If you read the context it’s reasonable to interpret my posts as implying that there is a link between fluoride, withdrawn behaviour and IQ.

                      But fluoride was a separate point when you said that I thought that the was a link between withdrawn behaviour and IQ, thus your misrepresentation.

                      “you instead assume that the fluoride treatment did it” — this is about fluoride
                      “and somehow think withdrawn behaviour is linked to IQ” — this isn’t about fluoride.

                      The point is that the use of fluoride by the Nazis to induce docile behaviour is documented from two sources (Major George Racey Jordan, and Charles Eliot Perkins), and begin withdrawn and being docile can look the same.

                      The anecdote is consistent with the historical use of fluoride by the Nazis.

  5. joe90 5

    Standing Man.

    At around 8pm in Istanbul, one man stood in Taksim Square…and continued to stand. Within hours, #duranadam, or #standingman, was trending worldwide on Twitter. Police broke up the protest at 2am. Watch the progression..

    • aerobubble 5.1

      Its repeating history. Depression economics and banning alcohol. Turkey stupid leader can’t understand that bring civil strife to his nation when so many of his neighbors are unstable, or positively imploding… …shakes head… …how is that strong leadership. The whole point of moderate alcohol drinking is about relaxing, sitting down, letting your guard down, letting your fears out and meeting minds, so finding the bridge between what looks like a chasm.

      Religion dogma is not a way to run a country, Turkey is doomed while this instability remains in power, what a moron.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        And lets get involved in the Syrian War on the side of Sunni Muslims while we’re at it

        • Jenny 5.1.1.1

          Another disgusting slur from CV to justify his continued support for dictatorship and mass murder.

          Divide and rule the oldest trick in the book.

          Colonial Viper said in a previous thread that using gas weapons against the insurgents wouldn’t be a war crime in his opinion. People like Colonial Viper are a partner to murder. And I had thought that comment was low.

          Now CV has reached a new low expounding sectarian divide and rule tactics to support of the Syrian dictatorship.

          And lets get involved in the Syrian War on the side of Sunni Muslims while we’re at it

          Colonial Viper

          We all know which side Colonial Viper is on. He has stated it several times.

          Colonial Viper has come out openly on the side of the regime. Even going as far as to malign the reputation of eyewitness reporters like Anita McNaught.

          What is it with you CV?

          You have never been to Syria. You have never met the Syrian people. But you support their oppressor. You are either profoundly ignorant, or deeply racist in your dismissal of the roots of the Syrian revolt and the whole Arab Spring as a Western plot.

          Either way CV you have no credibility.

          The revolt against the tyrant arose from all sectors of society secular, religious, Christian and Moslem. The first protests got their impetus from the Arab spring and from a deep resentment of the extreme neo liberal reforms and government privatisations implemented by Assad that impoverished the population while rewarding those in Assad’s closest circle, many who gained personal ownership of state assets.

          The original demand of the protesters were demands for mild democratic reforms toward more democracy. Instead of granting the relatively minor demands, Assad responded with massive state violence to suppress the protests. A decision he probably has cause to regret now.

          Aside from the massive military support from the neo-Stalinist Putin. It is Assad’s ability to exploit religious differences, to divide the population against each other that has preserved his regime.

          In the past Assad presented a secular and progressive face and was toasted by the West. One of only a few foreigners and only Arab leader to have stayed as a guest in Buckingham Palace. But faced with a mass peaceful revolt, almost overnight Assad performed an amazing transformation from secular to Shiite. Posing as saviour of the Alawite minority he armed and incited the notorious Shabiha death squads to attack the protests and murder the protesters, backed up by police and military. The crimes committed by the Shabiha in the name of the dictator have ensured the Alawite community are now in death lock with the regime. Which has made this dispute so intractable and sectarian.

          Through the two years of this revolt,Colonial Viper’s support for this dictatorship has been unwavering. Though his justifications for supporting mass murder have changed.

          First off Assad was fighting a just war against US and Western Imperialists.

          After that CV tried to depict Assad’s war against his people as a war against foreign Islamist terrorists linked to Al Qaeda

          Following the dictators script, CV is now depicting the civil war in Syria as a religious dispute between Sunni and Shia. This is just CV’s latest excuse for supporting autocracy and dictatorship and belittling the Arab Spring the greatest mass people’s movement in recent (if not all) history.

          This apologist for what amounts to fascism, should be ashamed for his continued support of a mass murderer and war criminal.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1

            Oh fuck off Jenny.

            You’re supporting a proxy war of foreign powers and foreign Islamist fighters inside Syria and still trying to frame it as a popular revolt by the citizens.

            What did you come down in the last shower? Or do you just parrot lines from CNN?

            Do you honestly really think life in Egypt and Libya is actually better for the citizens, after their (phoney) “Arab Spring” “revolts”? After Al Qaeda has set up base in Libya and the Muslim Brotherhood has gained massive political power in Egypt?

            The USA has wanted to take down Syria for over a decade as part of the list of nations it wanted done away with – General Wesley Clark said that explicitly – and here you are shit swallowingly stupid and gullible enough to support it.

            German authorities fear return of battle hardened Islamist extremists from Syria to Germany

            http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-officials-fear-return-of-islamist-fighters-in-syria-a-896745.html

            I guess now you think the German mainstream media are also running propaganda for Assad?

            You really are fucking thick.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.2

            Hey Jenny, do you support the arming of foreign Islamist fighters in Syria with American supplied heavy weapons and training?

            • Jenny 5.1.1.1.2.1

              Yet to happen. Your abuse is getting more hysterical and extreme.

              I wonder why. Maybe you would like to tell us.

              Do you support Assad because it is Labour Party policy?

              Did you also support our involvement in Afghanistan for the same reason?

              Your support for the mass murder of the Syrian people from the air can have no moral justification.

              Over 30 thousand disappeared even before the hostilities began.

              Syria a safe haven for CIA rendition for the purposes of torture.

              While at the same time Assad is celebrated in the West as a moderate and put up for a night in Buckingham Palace by the Queen.

              What fine company you keep.

              • Jenny

                Some other questions for you CV.

                And aren’t you worried that your open support for massive blood shed unleashed by the Assad regime, might put your Labour Party membership in Jeopardy?

                Now that the Turkish Spring has broken out, do you also support Prime Minister Erdogan’s harsh crackdown on the right to peaceful protest?

                Noting that Erdogan has claimed that his crackdown is based on the West’s similar crackdown on the Occupy Wall Street movement?

                If such a protest movement broke out here. Against let’s say, the Labour led government’s determination to proceed with Deep Sea Oil drilling. (A quite possible occurrance). Would you support the same sort of massive state violence against the protesters as unleashed in Turkey?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Edrogan is one of the main supporters for expanding NATOs military intervention in Syria, as well as acting as a logistics and advisory base for the foreign rebels fighting in Syria.

                  He is supporter of Armed regime change in a neighbouring country while suppressing protestors in his own.

                  You basically have no fucking clue, and stop trying to be my spokesperson on issues when you have no fucking clue.

                  • Jenny

                    Why CV can’t you answer the questions?

                    Why CV do you support mass murder?

                    Why CV do you support a psychopath who murders his own people from the air?

                    Why CV do you support a torture state that provided a safe haven for CIA renditions?

                    There has been no Nato intervention in Syria.

                    Why CV do you keep telling such obvious lies?

                    Why CV do you think it wouldn’t be a war crime if Assad gassed his opponents to death?

                    Why CV do you denigrate the Arab Spring?

                    Are you CV of the opinion that only white predominantly Christian people are prepared to struggle and die for democracy and freedom?

                    Considering your open support for the Assad regime, I think these are fair questions, why CV can’t you answer them?

                    Why CV do you reply with profanity and abuse?

                    Do you think this is fit and rational behaviour?

                    And finally why CV do you refuse to tell us whether you would or would not support the same sort of suppression of protest in this country?

                    When, not if, large protests are mounted against the Labour led coalition government’s determination to proceed with deep sea oil drilling. CV will your party in government be setting the police and the naval forces against them?

                    Why CV are you so sure that your party backs your support for bloody suppression of popular protest?

                    Is this CV what we can expect here from your government?

                    Or are you CV just one lone isolated extremist with no support at all within the Labour Party, and are in fact bringing your party into disrepute with your support for mass murder and torture?

  6. Seen this?

    “Is the science on fluoridation really settled?”

    (Note where this article has been published………….. )

    http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/un-doctored/2013/june-2013/18/is-the-science-on-fluoridation-really-settled.aspx

    Compare this with the statement from Professor Sir Peter Gluckman:

    http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/blog/what-is-in-the-water/

    Penny Bright

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate who OPPOSES the fluoridation of public drinking water supplies

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=152

    • weka 6.1

      (Note where this article has been published………….. )

      Quite. Also note where and how they published it, and who it was actually written by –


      Un-edited statements from the health sector and beyond

      Is the science on fluoridation really settled?

      Queenslanders for Safe Water Air and Food Inc

      Tuesday 18 June 2013, 3:02PM

      Media release from Queenslanders for Safe Water Air and Food Inc

    • UglyTruth 6.2

      Remember, the science was supposedly settled on asbestos, leaded petrol and Vioxx, before it was shown that the science was wrong.

      Also the “settled science” of global warming.. sorry, I mean climate change.

      Strange that the science has generally been “settled” in favour of those who promote stuff that kills people.

      Carnegie-Mellon university was the leading defender of the asbestos industry. Andrew Mellon was involved in the introduction of fluoridated water.

      Dr. Robert Kehoe, defender of industry in fluoride pollution lawsuits, and proponent of water fluoridation also spent much of his career defending leaded petrol.

      http://www.fannz.org.nz/history.php

    • NickS 6.3

      :roll:

      Here’s a really fucking neat idea, how about you bother to actually read the fucking science literature?

      It’s as easy as going to http://scholar.google.co.nz/ and using search terms + looking at citations, made even easier with tabbed browsing. And usually, papers that are available to the public (look at “versions” to see if a pdf etc is available) usually discuss and review prior research.

      Reading, hard it is not.

  7. karol 7

    This is an interesting article in the Herald. David Cunliffe says Labour will be watching “like a hawk” to see if there is any dubious government involvement in the tax dispute related to Mediaworks collapse.

    Also interesting is the image that the NZH has used to accompany the article – of Parker, Cunliffe & Hipkins.

  8. Boadicea 8

    What does Parker, Cunliffe and Hipkins have in common?

    They did not accept Sky City Rugby Hospitality Box invites while the party were attacking the Nats for doing a stupod deal with Sky City.

    The three of them have a great future together if they rise above the game being orchestrated by Grant Robertson.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      interesting observation.

      • Rogue Trooper 8.1.1

        It’s alright, It’s Ok
        Oooh La La

      • Anne 8.1.2

        Interesting observation indeed, but Boadicea needs to at least supply a modicum of an explanation as to why she has made such a statement. It is presumably based on something he/she knows about or perhaps has witnessed.

        • Boadicea 8.1.2.1

          Hi Anne,

          It was a response to Karol’s remarks in 7. She remarked on the Herald story on Cunliffe’s comments on Mediaworks. And on the use of a photo of the three non-boxers. It got me thinking about how those who supported Shearer in January now feel about Shearer and the games that Grant Robertson is playing.

          Btw.
          That photo was taken at the 2011 Ellerslie Conference at which Mallard and Grant Roberton used Paddy Gower to frame Cunliffe.

          • Sam 8.1.2.1.1

            Would just be a good start if they put Cunliffe on the front bench, wouldn’t it?! That photo was interesting – and did highlight the higher performing MPs at the moment – only one of them is being left languishing. What a flamin’ waste of talent.

          • Boadicea 8.1.2.1.2

            Correction, the 2012 conference last November.
            And I’m a Celtic Queen who kicks Tory/Roman asses.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.2.1.2.1

              May the light of your soul guide you.
              May the light of your soul bless the work that you do
              with the secret love and warmth of your heart.
              May you see in what you do the beauty of your own soul.
              May the sacredness of your work bring healing, light
              and renewal to those who work with you
              and to those who see and receive your work.
              May your work never weary you.
              May it release within you wellsprings of
              refreshment, inspiration and excitement.
              May you be present in what you do.
              May you never become lost in bland absences.
              May the day never burden.
              May dawn find you awake and alert,
              approaching your new day with dreams, possibilities and promises.
              May evening find you gracious and fulfilled.
              May you go into the night blessed, sheltered and protected.
              May your soul calm, console and renew you.

              • mac1

                Who wrote that, CV?

                Edit: just did my own research, and my suspicion was right. John O’Donohue. Funnily enough, my godmother was an O’Donohue.

          • Anne 8.1.2.1.3

            Thanks Boadicea. As you seem to have recognised, it was a genuine question. The reason I asked is because Robertson is coming to our local electorate meeting next month and I’m going to be very interested in what he says or maybe… what he doesn’t say.

    • Alanz 8.2

      “the game being orchestrated by Grant Robertson”

      Grant was ok during the Clark Administration. The H3 thing kinda was highly complimentary. Without H1 and H2, he is more like CO2.

      Having said that, he will make an effective cabinet minister but there are others more ready than him for a higher position on the front bench.

  9. Rogue Trooper 9

    On Property Investment:
    22% Australian
    20% Chinese
    9% live overseas.
    -RNZ

    • vto 9.1

      “9% live overseas”

      That is not a small number, that is a very large number that distorts the market. Cut that lot of bludgers out and watch the prices ease back. Then do it to rural land and all other land and watch capital values drop waaay back…

      … then watch the amount of work we all have to do to pay the banks interest shrink back and we wont know what to do with the extra moola in our pockets.

      High capital values of anything assist nobody but money lenders.

      This is a truth.

      • karol 9.1.1

        I suspect it’s not just the overseas resident buyers that are likely to distort the market. New residents, who acquired their money overseas in places like Aussie, the UK and China, are likely to be able to spend more than those who have resided long term in NZ.

        • karol 9.1.1.1

          PS. I thought UK buyers were up there with the Aussies and Chinese? OK not quite as high a %age.

          A BNZ-Real Estate Institute survey suggests 8% to 9% of houses are being sold to people living abroad.

          Real estate agents report that about 22% of overseas buyers, and vendors, are Australian, 20% of are Chinese and 13% are from Britain.

          BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander said more data is needed on ways to cool housing demand, such as whether to impose a tax on overseas buyers.

          He estimates half the overseas buyers are either immigrants buying before they move here, or New Zealanders returning home – especially from Australia and the United Kingdom.

    • weka 9.2

      On Property Investment:
      22% Australian
      20% Chinese
      9% live overseas.
      -RNZ

      Are the Australians and Chinese investors NZ residents? Can’t quite make sense of that.

  10. Rogue Trooper 10

    Somewhere, over the rainbow…
    -affectionately yours, Fire and Forget.

  11. Rogue Trooper 11

    Just Remember, that Death is not the end! (although…)

    • Olwyn 11.1

      Thanks for that Rogue Trooper. Just lovely, as darkness falls and the street lights come on.

  12. Morrissey 12

    After framing Arthur Allan Thomas,
    senior cops joked about it in the Mangere Hotel

    by Nicholas Jones, New Zealand Herald, 1 May 2013

    Senior police officers joked about framing Arthur Allan Thomas for the Crewe murders while drinking at a bar, says a woman who worked there.

    Queenie Edmonds said she overheard the talk while working at the Mangere Hotel 43 years ago at the time of the investigation. She heard police officers, including Bruce Hutton, who led the investigation, call Thomas a “half-wit”….

    Read more….
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10880777

    • dumrse 12.1

      Most of us read this six weeks go unless I’ve missed something new within ?

      • Morrissey 12.1.1

        Since when has this been a breaking news channel? I’ve posted up stuff about things that have happened much longer ago than six weeks ago—e.g. the Surafend massacre of 1918—and until now nobody has caviled about the time lag.

        Fair play to you, though, dumrse, I do appreciate your point. This article did appear a while ago now, but I had not seen it before. I wanted to share it with others, who probably feel exactly the same as you do.

        [lprent: we don't care about old stuff. There is a post up at present that *ends* in the recent date of 1915. What we care about is boring drones - trolls in particular. ]

        • Morrissey 12.1.1.1

          PRENT: [dyspeptic cough] What we care about is boring drones – trolls in particular. Cough, cough, snarl….

          BREEN: [looks around in bewilderment] W-w-w-w-what? You talking to ME?

          • lprent 12.1.1.1.1

            Nah. I tolerate you just as I do with most people commenting here. I tolerate differing views because I seldom *agree* with anyone. But I expect that most people are probably correct to one degree or another because almost every argument is in an area of grey. It is usually so easy to pick holes in any argument. All you have to do is to look for the areas where the data is weak or subject to differing interpretations.

            In the end everything is a question of probability and careful definition about the bounds of asserted rules. In other words, I was trained in science, and it colours everything else.

            But anyone can tell pretty easily when I target a drone. Have you ever known an actual troll to last more than a week before I start needling them? I just watch until I see them going repetitive, showing an inability to deal intelligently with others interacting with them, and acting like every half arsed troll that I have seen since 1980 when I first started playing around on computer nets at Waikato Uni. I get interested in their ability to adapt to the environmental shifts – like a moderator or sysop taking an interest in them. The ones unable to adapt usually aren’t useful to anyone else without a sharp lesson in manners.

            Admittedly there have been a few that are in the intermediate zone that I watch for longer. They can argue and oft-times pretty well. Then I’m interested in a different trait – the type of tactics they are using. If the tactics chosen disrupt the discussions or the tactic becomes too narcissistic so the discussion is all about them, then it isn’t good for the comments part of the site.

            But you’re well past that. I’d just anticipate having to warn you on the odd occasion as your enthusiasm wanders over the bounds and possibly the rare ban when you don’t pay heed to the warnings.

  13. Q Bert 13

    Cracking up at TV3’s lame arse concerted attack on the Greens and their policy idea of devaluing the dollar somewhat by creating sovereign currency and spending it into the economy, and Jonkeys dead faced lying broken record ” The greens want to print money, and other wacko ideas…” comments, the private banks PRINT MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR EVERY DAY, you fk*n idiot, every time someone takes out a loan; it’s called double entry book keeping, and the FRACTIONAL RESERVE SYSTEM. of course he must know that, but the retarded political reporter obviously didn’t or he might have mentioned it as a point of balance. What a wank and another complete fail from mainstream media. The world economy is awash in over inflated, leveraged debt based fiat currency, hence ever increasing debt, housing bubbles and recurrent crises. It’s pretty basic, if 96 odd percent of world currency in circulation is based on debt, what are you going to pay it off with numb nuts? more debt? How are going to pay the interest on the old debt? CREATE MORE MONEY, oh but only the banks are allowed to do that at interest ! …. it’s frkn obvious. At least the Greens currency would be debt free and help our trade deficit. Good enough for every major economy in the world in recent times, but for Key …. WHOA THAT’S WACKO MAN!!! What a god forsaken tosser. At least the greens have got some vision you gormless corporate bum boy nonce.! Anyway that’s my rant for the day.

  14. Paul 14

    Tracy Barnett
    “It’s a dark day for New Zealand – and strangely, no one has noticed. No one.
    ……..
    New Zealand has established a horrible new precedent: We have now said to the world we don’t have to honour the international laws we have pledged to uphold. Countries around the world who have asylum numbers in the tens of thousands annually look at us, confounded.

    I’m not sure what is more frightening: Now that this precedent has fallen, how easily others will crumble too. Or, in our innocence, that we keep telling ourselves it will never happen here.

    Wake up. It has just begun.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10891405

  15. Paul 15

    Tracy Barnett
    “It’s a dark day for New Zealand – and strangely, no one has noticed. No one.
    ……..
    New Zealand has established a horrible new precedent: We have now said to the world we don’t have to honour the international laws we have pledged to uphold. Countries around the world who have asylum numbers in the tens of thousands annually look at us, confounded.

    I’m not sure what is more frightening: Now that this precedent has fallen, how easily others will crumble too. Or, in our innocence, that we keep telling ourselves it will never happen here.

    Wake up. It has just begun.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10891405

  16. Paul 16

    Tracy Barnett
    “It’s a dark day for New Zealand – and strangely, no one has noticed. No one.
    ……..
    New Zealand has established a horrible new precedent: We have now said to the world we don’t have to honour the international laws we have pledged to uphold. Countries around the world who have asylum numbers in the tens of thousands annually look at us, confounded.

    I’m not sure what is more frightening: Now that this precedent has fallen, how easily others will crumble too. Or, in our innocence, that we keep telling ourselves it will never happen here.

    Wake up. It has just begun.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10891405

  17. North 17

    Premature perhaps, because The Vote has only just started, but I’m compelled to my keyboard by the spectacle of the well off, junk-blinged Rankin (down to lack of taste, not lack of money) making nought of the impact of multi-generational poverty. While having a side bet with a throwaway acknowledgment that “Oh Yes, poverty’s a terrible thing.”

    Fuck’n wannabee bitch ! Wear the mocassins of poverty in 2013 you right wing, thirsty for power baggage !

  18. Paul 18

    Celia Lashley amazing on Child Poverty on the Vote.

    • weka 18.1

      Oooh, forgot about that, and QoT’s tweeting…

      (Lashlie is awesome everytime I’ve heard her speak).

    • xtasy 18.2

      Paul – Yes there are still some “real people” out there, and she is one of them.

      Too many follow the misguided commercial and self centred agenda, faces full of make up, dressing up to please, trying to flirt with the boss, to get a pay-rise and what else goes on. There is much mental, emotional and spiritual prostitution out there now, and the commercial advertising drives it further by the day, many know no other values, but that.

      And then the religious nutters, brainwashed to death, not dissimilar to radical fascists like the Nazis and Hitler Youth were, not for the same cause of course, but to “serve” to whosover chooses to “lead” and exploit them.

      What the hell has become of this society, what has become of the people on this planet???

  19. North 19

    Celia Lashlie…….you bring tears to my eyes.

    And you Hannah Tamaki make me want to puke you outrageous bitch ! Yeah, you know all the bad stuff, just like Bling Girl Christine……you’re as rich as fuck by virtue of being married to the Charlatan Supreme Bishop. And complicit in the fraud he engages to pay for your bling and your bullshit hair. How much did your hairdresser cost at the last coiff’ Baby ? $280…….$350 ? How much work you had done on the face Darling ? How much did that cost ?

    Know wonder this country’s fucked !

    No Hannah, YOU don’t buy your whanau gifts. The tithers in the Destiny Church buy your whanau the gifts you give. Maggot !

    “Get my husband on the show if you wanna ask those questions……” You mean the tithing don’t pay for your hairdos……the tithing don’t pay for your facejobs, the gifts you give to your whanau ?

    Complicit cow looking down your paid for nose at the very people you sneer at. Fuck Off !

    • Paul 19.1

      Hannah Tamaki….the hairstyle, the clothes, the utter hypocrisy of these rich out of touch …
      Yeah, money makes no difference.

    • xtasy 19.2

      The result of “The Vote” is proof enough to me, that New Zealand has a gigantic problem. That problem is a self serving, self righteous, moralistic, unsocial, betraying and divisive “middle class”!

      That is also why I have been so damned outspoken on matters, that is why I have been so critical of much of NZ society, that is why I have repeatedly been thinking that I wished I should never have come back “home”.

      It is a disgrace, it is a shame for this society, it is also partly the reason “the left” is not getting traction, because too many in the supposed “middle class” are desperately trying all to align themselves with the “coping lot”, the managing “Kiwi battlers”, more so the successful makers, the top percentages really running the show, they want to grease up and feel they will in return get protection and favours, so they do themselves not drop into hopeless poverty!

      In fact, especially in the more urban areas, the larger centres, there is a fair number of society doing OK, maybe not well, but they struggle and still manage, others do very well indeed, and they rather have a dodgy John Key run the show, than share the cake with others. Their house values go up, and they think of making a good sale and earn a tax free profit, rather than think of the wellbeing of the whole country and society. That is too many out there.

      We are facing a very divided and divisive society, that probably never existed in this country before. The bottom 20 or 25 percent have nobody, but some on the left, stand up for them. I take my hat off to Hone Harawire, who performed excellently, who said what had to be said, but still, the vote was not in his favour, and not in that cause for abolishing poverty in New Zealand.

      It is so disgraceful what New Zealand has become like. Seeing the studio filled with religious and biased Destiny Church supporters would well have tilted the rest of the public sentiment, initially 68 per cent saying it is parenting, that is the main issue for child neglect and poverty.

      People like Tamaki should be locked up for extorting 10 per cent in tithing from poor people, who will follow him and his hypocritical wife to whatever they want. Same the other churches that manipulate people, and still have too much power in this country, and moralise and participate in stigmatisation.

      Forget not the church that owns and runs Sanitarium, earning hundreds of millions tax free, and paying NO tax. So “humane” of them to donate some weet bix for low quality breakfast in schools. In Europe, especially more socially aware Scandinavia, they would not beg for corporates and churches to offer food for kids at school.

      Shame on those self righteous New Zealanders there are too many of, that is those frowning on the poor and lecturing about parenting. You are not worth to live in your own land. Go and learn poverty in Africa for a change, to understand how some too many in numbers live in parts of your YOUR own country!

      • Paul 19.2.1

        Yes the result of the vote was predictable and depressing.
        As Celia Lashley, blaming poor parenting gets middle New Zealand off the hook and so they can forget the problem.
        It also gets the 1% off the hook because the destruction they have wrought to society since the advent of neo-liberalism is ignored
        Members of the 63% are now sufficiently self-centred that the issue will only become a problem when it personally and directly affects them.
        The sheeple follow the dog whistle call……
        .

  20. North 20

    64% say poverty ain’t got stuff all to do with it. Jesus Christ ! From their bloody armchairs.

    • weka 20.1

      Yeah but you have to remember that there are whole lot of people like myself who weren’t watching because we believe it betrays kids and poor people to even ask such a stupid fucking question as they did on the programme.

      • Gosman 20.1.1

        Yeah because policy should be made for pure emotive reasons and not involve any debate whatsoever.

        • weka 20.1.1.1

          To generate useful knowledge from inquiry, you have to ask a sensible question. The question asked tonight was designed to create controversy not knowledge. It was idiotic. Poverty and parenting issues should be dealt with separately, rather than being juxtaposed as either/or.

          • Gosman 20.1.1.1.1

            In your opinion.

            • weka 20.1.1.1.1.1

              Obviously. But are you suggesting that one can generate useful knowledge by asking a stupid question?

              • Gosman

                Whether a question is stupid or not is subjective. Obviously the person asking is unlikely to think it is stupid otherwise they wouldn’t have asked it. All questions have the ability to elicit information that was unknown. In that regard no question is stupid in my mind.

        • xtasy 20.1.1.2

          Policy should be made for the well being of ALL, at least the vast majority of society, and the latter is a compromise some make, but I do NOT stand for. You are middle class self-serving traitor, as I guess, and you only “care” about “your kind of country”, not all that live in it.

          Your comments here and on other blogs betray your self serving betrayal and lies, are you really feeling “good” in the skin you were born in?

    • Gosman 20.2

      Hone Harawira lost it for his side when he admitted he and his wife were better parents and had less stresses when the lived with virtually nothing in Northland than when they had some in Auckland. Stupid guy didn’t realise what he said until too late.

      • Arfamo 20.2.1

        They combined the issues of poverty and parenting into a game show. And people treat it like it was reality and it was all the evidence and discussion that was needed. After they had heard from the people actually working on the ground with it. Jesus.

        • Gosman 20.2.1.1

          No, they treated it like a good old fashioned political debate. Of course we could do away with debating topics and just accept the views of a few select people as gospel truth on the matter. Would you prefer that?

          • Arfamo 20.2.1.1.1

            No. You are right. I just would’ve preferred a higher vote of the don’t knows. Because I feel hopelessly under-informed. And I think combining the two issues in that way is too simplistic. But it is what I expected.

          • gobsmacked 20.2.1.1.2

            Gosman, it was an hour of television (minus ads).

            What did you/we learn from it? What are you now better informed about? Examples?

            • Gosman 20.2.1.1.2.1

              There was lots to learn.

              I learnt that Hone Harawira actually believes that having money can make raising children more difficult rather than easier.

              I learnt that the poverty line is $30,000 income for a family of four after housing costs have been taken in to account.

              I learnt that many of the proposed solutions to Child poverty are essentially turning back the clock to some perceived golden age in NZ pre 1984.

              I learnt that many New Zealanders don’t buy into the overly emotive arguments that people use in this area.

      • weka 20.2.2

        “Hone Harawira lost it for his side when he admitted he and his wife were better parents and had less stresses when the lived with virtually nothing in Northland than when they had some in Auckland. Stupid guy didn’t realise what he said until too late.”

        Poverty takes many forms. It’s not the lack of money that’s the point, it’s the lack of resources that enable one to live beyond constant survival stress. I can well imagine that someone might do better on less money if they had other things supporting them (eg family and community support, lower stress, better environment etc). But the fact that someone in that situation does better doesn’t mean that everyone on a low income can do better. You’ve really missed the point if that’s what you think.

      • xtasy 20.2.3

        Hone did also imply he and his wife were making extra efforts, and it was out of the extraordinary, as far as I can recall. Stop your disrespecful hate campaign against one of the very few politicians in this country, who even cares. Get your Dunne Done Job to the surface, hey, what a self righteous prick is he, and also Banks, the dodger, liar and criminal.

        Dunne dared to claim on Radio Live tonight, he was being persecuted, no other party was expected to deliver the kind of evidence of membership as UF, but on Checkpoint, RNZ, it was made clear, that all parties have the same rules, only Dunne tried to get away with presenting a simple spread sheet for membership proof.

        They want more proof, and the electoral commission is right. We get people like you, part of the promoters of lying private commercial media, that tell lies and misrepresent, and tell people crap.

        Get fucking honest man, and face the music. Your media and favoured people are ALL corrupt!

  21. gobsmacked 21

    I only saw the last half of The Vote, that was enough. Celia Lashlie was outstanding. It’s amazing what impact you can make on telly if you a) know about stuff b) care about stuff c) can communicate. It’s not about better media training – she just had something to say and said it (politicians -*cough* Labour caucus – please take note).

    The result is meaningless: “Do you not think that poverty isn’t a bigger issue or is it parenting or isn’t it? Text Yes and No now!” Plus, any team with Garner the bombastic bouffhead is losing from the start.

    • weka 21.1

      “It’s amazing what impact you can make on telly if you a) know about stuff b) care about stuff c) can communicate.”

      d) have deep emotional and social intelligence.

      Imagine if we had politicians with that.

      • Paul 21.1.1

        Celia Lashley for Prime Minister

      • Paul 21.1.2

        Celia Lashley for Prime Minister

      • Colonial Viper 21.1.3

        Imagine if we had politicians with that.

        Hmmmm people with those characteristics tend to run a mile.

        • weka 21.1.3.1

          It wasn’t you that said recently that politics is for hard people was it? ;-)

          (someone said it when I was pointing out that parliament is a horrible place that inherently excludes people who would bring in useful skills were it a kinder place).

          • Colonial Viper 21.1.3.1.1

            In response to some pollie being made fun of or insulted? Ahhhhh…probably :)

    • the pigman 22.1

      I think the sad reality is that he’ll cobble together the nutters, sympathizers and sycophants sometime between now and the next election. And thanks to the new precedent set by the Speaker we’ll just keep paying him like he’s leader of a party until he’s registered a new one (cheers, Dave!)

  22. Jimmie 23

    So which side was Hone on? I actually like the way he is passionate that there are things wrong with his people but at first he started off grizzling about poverty but ended up arguing for the yes vote??

    I think he would like to turn the clock back to the 70’s when many Maori were employed in out of date freezing works and other lower skilled work places (such as car and clothing factories) which lost money hand over fist.

    I actually sympathize with his view point coz for many of that generation who had worked in the same place for 20-30 years retraining into something new was just too hard.

    The question has to be how do you retrain a lost generation into a new society where stable jobs that last for 40 years don’t exist?

    • xtasy 23.1

      “I think he would like to turn the clock back to the 70′s when many Maori were employed in out of date freezing works and other lower skilled work places (such as car and clothing factories) which lost money hand over fist.”

      Jimmie – what was all that retraining about?

      Some was construction work, others was a lot of a waste of time. The construction skills came in handy for building under the credit financed property boom until 2007, but after that Maori had to go to Australia to get jobs in the area.

      Other skills were often low and even lower skilled jobs they were offered. If you only offer low-low training courses, what do you bloody expect them to perform?

      I am sure many Maori can do better than what WINZ, MSD and other agencies expect them to do.

      But would any body ever bother to engage more constructively, to work closely, to also ask the harder questions, to come as a partner and deliver? I have seen what goes on in NZ, even if it is under PC type agendas, there is always either big nanny or daddy behind it, knowing best, and stifling all incentives and initiatives.

      NZ society is like a mentally and spiritually manipulated or even “castrated” country, where few have true rights and freedoms. I know some countries never perceived as “free” which offer more true freedom than NZ offers it’s citizens.

      Time to get fair and real on matters, and face the music.

  23. A group of whistleblowers, including a number of aviation experts, have come forward in a new documentary to claim that the official explanation for the crash of TWA Flight 800 was wrong and a gas tank explosion did not bring down the flight off the coast of Long Island 17 years ago.
    However, the six whistleblowers, all part of the original investigation team, stopped short of saying the plane was shot down.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18/twa-flight-800-investigators-break-silence-in-new-documentary-claim-original/

    Richard Russel’s affadavit describes a radar tape which showed a non-beacon target travelling at a speed of 600 knots before the explosion. Many witnesses reported something like a missile colliding with the airliner.

  24. xtasy 25

    Just a cut and paste, on Brasil, maybe to be examined, but really, generally there is an element of truth!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBYEXLGdSg

    Brazilians are NOT known to protest, this is SERIOUS!

    • Murray Olsen 25.1

      They protest quite a lot, especially students, but it normally turns into a party. When the people from the favelas protest, it turns into police shootings. It’s been a long time since anything on this scale has happened.

      I’m not sure what to make of it yet, but the right wing are certainly getting involved, trying to exclude the smaller left parties and pretend this is something patriotic, above parties. There are also many reported incidents of agent provocateurs.

  25. xtasy 27

    So NZ is all happy go lucky and the rest of the world is not important, right?! Maybe for some.

    Hey get a fucking life, get a fucking wake up call, while you sleep, things are happening, all over the place even in Brazil!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUcRSOiYyow

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKqk4iaMHO8

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rio+de+janeiro+&oq=rio+de+janeiro+&gs_l=youtube.12..0l10.10113.10113.0.12793.1.1.0.0.0.0.373.373.3-1.1.0…0.0…1ac.1.11.youtube.IG7PZ9Wl7L0

    I am furious about the indifference, the slackness, the wannabe shit going on in some other places, this is REAL, it is the next best thing to what happened in 1973 Chile, maybe a game changer.

    Well, perhaps I am over courageous, but Brazilians are NOT know to go on the streets for things, this may be something they really care about. Take note, take care, take sides, and perhaps learn about Latin America and take a bloody stand!

    • xtasy 27.1

      It was not meant to say “..the best thing to what happened in 1973 in Chile”. What I meant was not that year, but the year that Allende became president of Chile, which was of course a fair bit earlier.

  26. Colonial Viper 28

    Milan court sentences Dolce and Gabbana to 20 months prison for tax fraud

    Yes, that D&G.

    :shock:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-19/dolce-and-gabanna-sentenced-20-months-jail-hundreds-millions-tax-evasion

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    Skeptical Science | 24-10
  • The state of the working class in New Zealand today
    Redline’s readership has, since we began, grown consistently and substantially. At the same time, it can be quite daunting going to a website for the first time and reading a few things on the home-page and then wondering what to...
    Redline | 24-10
  • The state of the working class in New Zealand today
    Redline’s readership has, since we began, grown consistently and substantially. At the same time, it can be quite daunting going to a website for the first time and reading a few things on the home-page and then wondering what to...
    Redline | 24-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Fonterra CEO Theo Spierings
    Press Release – The Nation Fonterra boss worried about the spread of Ebola in West Africa and potential big consequences for the company, saying it doesnt feel to me like that it is under control at the momentLisa Owen interviews...
    Its our future | 24-10
  • We can be heroes
    (Trigger warnings apply on this post for assault, misogyny, domestic violence, and bitter sarcasm/flippancy about male perpetrators of violence against women.) This is written for cis-gendered straight guys. I have nothing to say to women on the subject of male...
    On the Left | 24-10
  • Stuart’s 100 #47: Water in Public Spaces
    47: Water in Public Spaces What if we made more of water in our public spaces? Sometimes it is the simple things. People flock to water in public spaces. We need more of it in this city. And in more...
    Transport Blog | 24-10
  • Freedom of information: A good idea from India
    One of the better ideas for freedom of information implemented overseas is disclosure logs - agencies posting requests and responses publicly, allowing performance to be monitored and reducing repeat requests. This is widespread in Australia and the UK, but poorly...
    No Right Turn | 24-10
  • The Age of Cupidity
    I've been trying to publish a post for the past couple of weeks.  Although I have several in draft form, when I try to finish them I find myself overwhelmed by a deep lassitude - an uncharacteristic gloom which is only relieved...
    Te Whare Whero | 24-10
  • De-industrialisation and the prospects for socialism
    Is the world really de-industrialising? by Michael Roberts Last week I spoke on a panel that debated De-industrialisation and socialism.  The panel was organised by Spring, a Manchester-based group in England that has become a forum for the discussion of...
    Redline | 24-10
  • De-industrialisation and the prospects for socialism
    Is the world really de-industrialising? by Michael Roberts Last week I spoke on a panel that debated De-industrialisation and socialism.  The panel was organised by Spring, a Manchester-based group in England that has become a forum for the discussion of...
    Redline | 24-10
  • Looking back with pride – Maryan Street
    Maryan Street joined the Labour Party in 1984, was President from 1995-1997 and became an MP in 2005. She talked to Labour Voices about her Labour journey and the people, events and achievements she recalls with the greatest pride....
    Labour campaign | 24-10
  • Strong and comprehensive
    DEVELOPING “a very strong and comprehensive” Women’s Affairs policy going into the 2014 election is one of the achievements Carol Beaumont is most proud of. And being unable to implement it one of her regrets....
    Labour campaign | 24-10
  • Christchurch’s rebuild should be decided by Christchurch, not Welling...
    Radio New Zealand has an appalling story this morning about the government's interference in the Christchurch rebuild over the new District Plan. Normally district plans are decided by elected local councils accountable to the voters who will live under them....
    No Right Turn | 24-10
  • Turning a blind eye to corruption
    As we are constantly reminded, New Zealand consistently leads the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index as the "least corrupt country in the world". And as we are increasingly becoming aware, that reputation may be undeserved. Today there's another nail in...
    No Right Turn | 23-10
  • Police Association off target with call to arm Police
    Arming our Police will lead to more crime, more violence, and more killings – by criminals, and potentially even by police. The Police Commissioner is correct in pointing out that the Police Association’s recent call to arm all officers is...
    frogblog | 23-10
  • Political interference at Maori Television
    A government-owned television channel arranges an interview with a former opposition MP, but the government-appointed CEO spikes it. Something from Russia or Cuba maybe? No - according to Hone Harawira its happening right here in New Zealand:“[Maori TV CEO Paora]...
    No Right Turn | 23-10
  • September 14 Patronage
    Auckland’s Transport’s patronage results for September are now out and they show that the city is experiencing spectacular PT growth, growth which is also setting a number of records. The big news was earlier in the week was that when it was announced...
    Transport Blog | 23-10
  • Maiden speech – Jenny Salesa
    Jenny Salesa, Labour MP for Manukau East, has given her Maiden Speech in Parliament....
    Labour campaign | 23-10
  • Maiden speech – Adrian Rurawhe
    Adrian Rurawhe, Labour MP for Te Tai Hauāuru, has given his Maiden Speech in Parliament....
    Labour campaign | 23-10
  • Roastbusters, one year on (almost)
    March in Wellington against rape culture, from Stuff.co.nz Content warning: contains discussion of rape and sexual assault You can literally get away with rape in this country. You can be a serial rapist, with photographic and video evidence you willingly...
    On the Left | 23-10
  • Labour Needs To Stop Saying What People DON”T want to hear.
    A Freight Train called Key: On election night 1975 Bill Rowling said Muldoon's landslide victory felt like being hit by a bus. Oh what David Cunliffe would have given for that bus on 20 September 2014!THE ANGUISH of Labour supporters...
    Bowalley Road | 23-10
  • And if you have to carry a gun to keep your fragile seat at number one R...
    What happened at Canada's war memorial and parliamentary buildings is a pretty bad thing. It should, however, be kept in some sort of perspective. ...
    Pundit | 23-10
  • Beware the sucker ploy.
    A few years back I wrote about the strategic utility of terrorism. One thing I did not mention in that post was the use of a tried and true guerrilla tactic as part of the terrorist arsenal: the sucker ploy....
    Kiwipolitico | 23-10
  • Hard News: Friday Music: An accompanied korero
    I'm chairing the LATE at the Museum event next month, under the title The Age of Slacktivism. We've picked a strong lineup -- Nicky Hager, Matthew Hooton, Marianne Elliot, Laura O'Connell Rapira -- and it should be a rousing hour's...
    Public Address | 23-10
  • 6 amazing renewable energy projects that we love
    Here's a few renewable energy projects from around the world -- ones that we totally love.1. Germany has invested big in solar and wind. And in the first six months of 2012, the amount of electricity produced using renewables jumped from...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 23-10
  • China’s coal use actually falling now (for the first time this centur...
    Coal use in China is falling this year - according to official data reported in the Chinese press.It is the first time this century that China has seen year on year quarterly falls in coal use. The Chinese economy continues to grow...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 23-10
  • Can new roads pay for themselves?
    It’s common to hear people say that because roads are paid for by their users (fn 1), we should build more roads. After all, the new roads will fund themselves! At first glance, this seems convincing. But a closer look...
    Transport Blog | 23-10
  • As a nation drowned in the PM’s lies, sons & daughters were sent to d...
      As a nation drowned in the PM’s lies Sons & daughters were sent to die Meanwhile at home democracy cried But his government crowed Everything’s fine.   Other peoples’ children signed up for his war While at home in comfort...
    Politically Corrected | 23-10
  • Why I am on the left
    (For our opening week, we asked all our contributors to think about why they’re On The Left, and what the next three years holds for the left, the government, and New Zealand.) Post by Jem I am left first and...
    On the Left | 23-10
  • Minister to attend TPP Ministers’ Meeting
    Press Release – New Zealand Government Trade Minister Tim Groser will depart today for Sydney to join Ministers from countries participating in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) for the next round of negotiations.Hon Tim Groser Minister of Trade 24 October 2014...
    Its our future | 23-10
  • On The Nation this weekend
    Press Release – The Nation This weekend on The Nation with dairy prices falling, China growing its agriculture sector, and the environmental costs piling up, we ask the Fonterra chief executive Theo Spierings if New Zealand is too dependent on...
    Its our future | 23-10
  • Agri-Food Producers Call for Strong Outcomes through the TPP
    Press Release – Federated Farmers International Agricultural and Agri-Food Producers Call for Strong Outcomes through the TPP At the round of Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) negotiations taking place this week in Australia, agri-food producer and processor groups from Canada, Australia …International...
    Its our future | 23-10
  • Grant Robertson is not as much like Joseph Stalin as some would have you th...
    It’s not often you see a New Zealand political figure compared favourably to Stalin, but this is what Chris Trotter has done to that decidedly non-genocidal non-lunatic Grant Robertson.  ...
    Pundit | 23-10
  • Food, Fossil Fuels and Filthy Finance
    It is depressingly apparent that powerful forces in the global economy are set to carry on with the exploration for and use of fossil fuels ass a primary source of energy for decades to come. Oxfam has produced a report...
    Hot Topic | 23-10
  • 2014 Arctic sea ice extent – 6th lowest in millennia
    The National Snow and Ice Data Center has reported that this year we saw the 6th-lowest minimum Arctic sea ice extent on record. Research has shown that most of the long-term decline in sea ice, or the “death spiral” as...
    Skeptical Science | 23-10
  • How low can you go? Mining the depths
    Today I made my oral submission to the Environmental Protection Authority on Chatham Rock Phosphate’s application to mine phosphate from the seabed approximately halfway between the mainland and the Chatham Island. In a nutshell this application is for the deepest...
    frogblog | 23-10
  • Surrounded sex offender still won’t come down from roof
    While they would still appreciate him coming down, police say they’re confident the man has “nowhere to hide.” After an agonising 54-year wait, it is beginning to appear as though a notorious sex offender dressed as Santa may not, in...
    The Civilian | 23-10
  • Stuart’s 100 #46 On the Way or Already There?
    46: On the Way or Already There? What if we dropped the pseudo-word “roading” from Auckland’s vernacular? Roads are on the way somewhere; streets are already somewhere. This simple difference in understanding and perspective between movement and place often results...
    Transport Blog | 23-10
  • National’s failed commodities export strategy exposed
    National's strategy to rely on commodities such as milk powder and logs has been exposed in the September trade figures released today, the Green Party said."National's strategy to hang all economic hope on exporting ever-increasing volumes of milk powder and...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Caution needed on calls to arm police
    There is no justification for routinely arming our police and doing so would change forever the way officers interact with their communities, Labour’s Associate Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. “As one of the few organisations distinguished by its unarmed status,...
    Labour | 23-10
  • Govt strains to get tea break law through
    The Government has been left with egg on its face - failing to get its much-vaunted, but hugely unpopular, meal break law passed in the first week of its new term, Labour spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.“National desperately...
    Labour | 23-10
  • How low can you go? Mining the depths
    The company says there will be economic benefits, which the EEZ Act says the EPA must consider, but even these benefits are in doubt. The royalties while not set will be tiny, the profits will flow offshore, and whatever phosphate...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Fed Farmers defend GE Agriculture
    Federated Farmers, which represents a minority of farmers, appears to be captured by a pro-GE clique hell bent on increasing unsustainable technologies for the benefit of the herbicide and patent controlling seed companies. That there are better more sustainable farming...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Government loses the affordable housing race
    Nick Smith is dreaming if he thinks he can deliver affordable housing to Cantabrians on his current figures, says Labour’s Associate Housing spokesperson Poto Williams. “The Minister’s announcement that the Government will build 237 new homes, most of which will...
    Labour | 23-10
  • Labour’s thoughts with Canadians
    Labour has offered its sympathies to the family and friends of the Canadian soldier who died in what appears to be a premeditated and unprovoked attack while standing at guard at the Ottawa National War Memorial. “Our thoughts are also...
    Labour | 23-10
  • What next for TVNZ? Outsourcing the news?
    Television New Zealand’s decision to outsource Māori and Pacific programming is a real blow to the notion that our state broadcaster is a public broadcaster, says Labour. “CEO Kevin Kenrick has said today that TVNZ has ‘a very long and...
    Labour | 22-10
  • Green Party expresses sympathy for Canadian shooting victims
    The Green Party expressed its solidarity with Canadians and the Canadian Parliament today, offering its sympathy for family and friends of the soldier killed in the attack. "Our thoughts are with all those caught up in the shooting in Canada...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Prime Minister must honour his promise
    It’s time for John Key to honour his promise to the Pike River families, says Labour MP Damien O’Connor.  “International mine experts have confirmed the view of WorkSafe New Zealand and many miners on the West Coast that it is...
    Labour | 22-10
  • Kevin Hague questions the Minister of Health about Katherine Rich’s c...
    KEVIN HAGUE to the Minister of Health : Is he satisfied that there is no conflict of interest in the head of the Food and Grocery Council, Katherine Rich, being a board member of the Health Promotion Agency; if so,...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Kennedy Graham to the Prime Minister on the Deployment of New Zealand Speci...
    Dr KENNEDY GRAHAM to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that the risks to New Zealand from any commitment of military assistance to counter Islamic State militants in Iraq would be "no greater than I think the...
    Greens | 22-10
  • EPA finds Shell Oil illegally drilled two wells
    The Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) has concluded that Shell Todd Oil Services (STOS) broke the law by drilling two wells without a marine consent off the coast of Taranaki, the Green Party said today. The EPA conducted an inspection of...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Soaring rail use in Auckland shows need for rail link now
    News that Aucklanders overtook Wellingtonians as the biggest train users is further evidence the Government needs to start work on the Auckland City Rail Link now, the Green Party said today.Auckland Transport said today that in the year to September,...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Tea breaks gone by lunch time
    Labour is calling for an eleventh hour reprieve to employment law changes which could see thousands of Kiwi workers not covered by collective agreements lose their smoko breaks, its spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.“How cynical that on the...
    Labour | 21-10
  • Metiria Turei to lead fight on feeding hungry children
    Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei is urging all political parties to support the Feed the Kids Bill which she inherited today from Mana leader Hone Harawira.Mrs Turei, who leads the Green Party's work on child poverty, will pick up Mr...
    Greens | 21-10
  • Otago dairy farms fail basics
    I’m really privileged to take on the responsibility of the water portfolio. Eugenie Sage has done excellent work in this area in the last term of parliament and provided a great platform for further work. Last Parliament my bill to...
    Greens | 21-10
  • A mighty totara has fallen across the Tasman
    The New Zealand Labour Party expresses deep sadness at the death of former Australian prime minister Gough Whitlam, aged 98. “Today a great totara has fallen across the Tasman,” Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says....
    Labour | 21-10
  • Note to National: Must deliver on child poverty
    John Key and his Government will be held to its promise to make child poverty a priority, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “In its priority-setting speech today the Government stated child poverty would be a major focus for...
    Labour | 21-10
  • New Analysis show Government cut tertiary education funding
    New analysis done by the Green Party today shows the Government has made cuts to funding of tertiary education since 2008.Figures compiled by the Parliamentary Library show that between 2009 and 2015 Government funding to Tertiary Institutions dropped by 4...
    Greens | 21-10
  • Students doing it tough as fees rise again
    The Government is making it increasingly difficult for Kiwis to gain tertiary education as fees continue to rise and access to student support becomes even more restricted, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Steven Joyce is shutting a generation...
    Labour | 20-10
  • Key misled New Zealand on Iraq deployment
      John Key was misleading New Zealanders prior to the election when he ruled out New Zealand special forces being deployed to Iraq, says Labour Defence Spokesperson Phil Goff.  “Post-election he has cynically disregarded that by saying that deployment of...
    Labour | 20-10
  • Swearing about swearing the oath
    Yesterday, I was swearing. Swearing the Parliamentary oath, that is. But, under my breath, I was also quietly swearing about the archaic, colonial form of that oath and its inappropriateness for today’s Aotearoa New Zealand. To be permitted to speak...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Kevin Hague speaks in the 2014 Address and Reply debate
    Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, and, like others, can I begin my contribution by congratulating you and the others in the Speaker's team: the Rt Hon David Carter, Lindsay Tisch, and the Hon Trevor Mallard. I also want...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Damning report on Ruataniwha dam numbers
    When I presented my submission to the Board of Inquiry on the Tukituki Catchment Proposal I compared the proposed 83 metre high Ruataniwha dam with the Clyde Dam and noted the risk of cost blowouts in the construction process.  The...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Church congratulated on child poverty stand
    The efforts by the bishops of the Anglican Church to ensure that the issue of child poverty is not forgotten is a call to all New Zealanders to take action, says Labour’s Interfaith-Dialogue Spokesperson, Su’a William Sio.   “I think...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review.  He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban (see further biographical details here). The Review Team...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour backs urban development plans
    Auckland Council’s plan to set up an urban development agency is to be applauded and central government should get behind it to make it a success, Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford says. Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town has indicated plans...
    Labour | 18-10
  • New Zealand can be rightly proud of seat on Security Council
    Gaining a seat on the United Nation’s Security Council shows the sort of standing that New Zealand has in the world and the quality of the long campaign that we ran over nearly a decade, says Foreign Affairs spokesperson David...
    Labour | 16-10
  • NZ has opportunity on UN Security Council
    New Zealand has an opportunity to make a major contribution to the strengthening of international law and institutional capacity through its upcoming two-year tenure on the United Nations Security Council, Green Party spokesperson on global affairs, Dr Kennedy Graham said...
    Greens | 16-10
  • MPI still dragging the chain over causes of food bug
    The Ministry of Primary Industries’ release of Environmental Science and Research’s initial reports regarding the sources of a nasty stomach bug will be little comfort to the 127 people affected by it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “This...
    Labour | 16-10
  • Treasury officials should try working without food
    The Green Party is challenging Treasury officials to work for a week without eating properly, in light of their advice to Government that a food in schools programme is not needed."Treasury's advice was that providing food for children in schools...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Councils need to better protect our drinking water
    Environment Canterbury (ECan) is proposing several variations to its regional land and water plan that will allow for increased nutrient and other pollution from irrigation and intensive agriculture on the Canterbury Plains. Commissioners are hearing submissions on Variation 1 to...
    Greens | 15-10
  • National needs to commit to making NZ workers safe
    The National Government must do more to help make New Zealand workplaces a safer place to work in, Green Party industrial relations spokesperson Denise Roche said today.Data released by Statistics New Zealand today showed that workers in the fishing and...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Key commits to deployment before consultation or analysis
    John Key’s offer to consult Opposition parties on whether to deploy New Zealand forces against ISIS looks increasingly like a PR exercise only, says Labour’s Defence spokesperson, Phil Goff. “The presence of New Zealand’s Chief of Defence Force at a...
    Labour | 15-10
  • National must end ideological opposition to raising income
    If John Key is serious about tackling child poverty he must approach it with an open mind, and overcome his ideological block to raising incomes as a solution, the Green Party said today.Papers released to Radio New Zealand today show...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Pentagon links climate change and terrorism
    Yesterday the Pentagon launched a plan to deal with a threat that “poses immediate risks to national security”; one that “will affect the Department of Defense’s ability to defend the nation”. It wasn’t referring to Ebola or ISIS. It was...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Four Nominees for Labour’s Leadership
    As at 5pm today four valid nominations had been received for the position of Labour Leader, as follows: Andrew Little(nominated by Poto Williams and Iain Lees-Galloway) Nanaia Mahuta(nominated by Louisa Wall and Su’a William Sio) David Parker(nominated by Damien O’Connor...
    Labour | 14-10
  • Green Party calls for consultation over terrorism law changes
    The Green Party has today written to the Prime Minister asking him to engage in wider consultation prior to changing any laws as a result of the recently announced terrorism law reviews, said the Green Party today. In a letter...
    Greens | 14-10
  • MPI must name product and supermarket chain
    The Ministry of Primary Industries must name the product responsible for severe gastroenteritis affecting people around the country, and the supermarket chain distributing it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “The Ministry seems to be more concerned about protecting...
    Labour | 13-10
  • John Key dishonest about reasons for wanting to change terrorism law
    John Key is misleading the public to push through terrorism law changes under urgency, the Green Party said today. On Sunday, John Key stated that it is not illegal for someone to fight overseas for a terrorist group, such as...
    Greens | 12-10
  • Law changes shaping up to be worse than first thought
    The Prime Minister needs to be up front about exactly what changes he is planning to make to the Employment Relations  Amendment Bill, Labour's spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.Interviewed on Q&A yesterday John Key said he did not...
    Labour | 12-10
  • Rapists, not Tinder, the threat to women
    Blame for rape and sexual assault should only ever be laid at the door of the perpetrator, not dating services or the actions of women themselves, Labour’s Associate Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. “Tinder is not the problem and women...
    Labour | 09-10
  • Safer Journeys For People Who Cycle
    You have a rare opportunity to tell the people who are making the decisions on cycling how to make it better. The Cycling Safety Panel is seeking feedback on their draft recommendations for improving the safety of cycling in New...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Subsidising more pollution will undermine water clean-up plan at Te Waihora...
    In 2010, NIWA found Canterbury’s Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere had the worst nutrient status of 140 lakes around New Zealand that it measured. In 2011, the National Government committed to spending $15 million across the country through the Fresh Start for...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Adding value not herbicides
    The HT swedes, and other brassicas, might seem like a good idea to farmers struggling against weeds but like the GE road, is this the path we want our agriculture to be treading? The Federated Farmers President, Dr William Rolleston...
    Greens | 07-10
  • ‘Blame the Planner’ bizarre approach to child poverty
    The National Government is stooping to a bizarre new low in blaming "planning processes" for poverty and inequality, after spending six years doing nothing about either the housing market or child poverty, the Green Party said today. Finance Minister Bill...
    Greens | 07-10
  • Media Advisory
    MANA Leader, Hone Harawira will not be available to speak with media today regarding his release “Recount Just One Step To restoring Credibility”. He is however available for media comment tomorrow, Tuesday the 8th of October, all media arrangements are...
    Mana | 07-10
  • RECOUNT JUST ONE STEP TO RESTORING CREDIBILITY
    “I have applied for a judicial recount of the votes in the Tai Tokerau election because it is one step in trying to restore credibility to the electoral process in the north, and, I suspect, in all other Maori electorates...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA SEEKS TAI TOKERAU RECOUNT
    The MANA Movement is supporting Leader Hone Harawira’s application for a judicial re-count in the Te Tai Tokerau electorate for the 2014 general election. President Lisa McNab says there are a number of serious issues of concern regarding the ability...
    Mana | 07-10
  • Ideological Blitzkrieg – Privatization of state housing, more charter sch...
    Pundits in pundit land will tell you that this Government is boring, that Key is the great pragmatist and that it is his ability to create elegant solutions that keeps him the firm favourite in many Kiwi eyes. This ability...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • Hegemony rules but resistance is fertile
    The Prime Minister is a puppet. Not just our current Prime Minister, but given the forces of multinational globalisation, the role of any head of state, is less as independent actor, and more as a puppet of international trends and...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • An open Letter to Sir Bob Jones: demanding a ‘liveable wage’ is not “...
    How out of touch with reality is Sir Bob Jones? You know, that white dude who invested in privatised SOEs after the selling off of our assets in the eighties and made a ludicrous and disgusting amount of money and is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • My insecurity about the Security Council
    As I write this (on 24 October) it is international UN Day. Of course, you all knew that already, right? Well, the day celebrates the entry into force of the UN Charter in 1945. With the ratification of this founding...
    The Daily Blog | 24-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Catherine Delahunty – Back in That House
    Parliament opened this week and I still find it a very odd place. Most of the people are reasonably courteous and friendly, but the rituals are archaic and the rules around issues like the swearing in oath are oppressive and...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Marae Investigates No More
    TVNZ yesterday announced the closure of their Māori and Pacific programmes department. That means they’ve chosen to stop making Fresh, Tagata Pasifika, Waka Huia and Marae Investigates to let independent producers get their hands on these lucrative contracts. This is...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • BLOGWATCH: An Un-Civil War in Labour, eh?
    Earlier today, my attention was directed to an entry that’s just recently appeared on the Slightly Left of Centre blog. It purports to contain the ‘inside word’ from a highly placed NZF source – which is funny, because I’m pretty sure...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Santanomics 101
    Santanomics could mean a number of things. It could be the study and practice of giving. Or it could mean the study and practice of rampant end-of-year commercialism. However, for me today it is the economics of erectingAuckland’s giant Santa...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • SkyCity boss misleads public over workers lost shifts
    SkyCity CEO Nigel Morrison has defended the employment practices at his company in an “Opinion” piece entitled “Human Capital key to corporate success” in the NZ Herald on Thursday. A number of his claims are misleading, contain only partial truths...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • Review: Perfect Place
    I went to a Perfect Place on Tuesday night, and what a delight it was. The marshmallows sweetly (and forcefully) handed out pre-show, set the tone for the next hour. Walking up the stairs at The Basement was a complete...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • 5AA Australia – NZ on UN Security Council + Dirty Politics Lingers On
    5AA Australia: Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey deliver their weekly bulletin Across The Ditch. General round up of over night talkback issues: Thongs, Jandals and flip-flops… ISSUE 1: New Zealand has been successful in its campaign to become a non...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • When I mean me, I mean my office & when I call whaleoil I mean not as m...
    This. Is. Ludicrous. Green Party co-leader Russel Norman put the first of what are likely to be many questions about Mr Key’s relationship with Slater, asking him how many times he had phoned or texted the blogger since 2008. “None...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • A brief word on describing the Government as ‘boring and bland’
    The narrative being sown is that this Government will be a boring and bland third term. Boring and bland. Since the election, Key has announced he is privatising 30% of state houses without reinvesting any of that money back into housing society’s most...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Launch.
    BIKERS? SERIOUSLY! Had Grant Robertson’s campaign launch been organised by Phil Goff? Was this a pitch for the votes of what few Waitakere Men remain in the Labour Party? Was I even at the right place? Well, yes, I was....
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • About Curwen Ares Rolinson
    Curwen Ares Rolinson – Curwen Ares Rolinson is a firebrand young nationalist presently engaged in acts of political resistance deep behind enemy lines amidst the leafy boughs of Epsom. He is affiliated with the New Zealand First Party; although his...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kelly Ellis
    Kelly Ellis.Kelly Ellis – As a child, Kelly Ellis didn’t so much fall into the cracks, but willfully wriggled her way into them. Ejected from Onslow College – a big job in the 70s – Kelly worked in car factories,...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kate Davis
    Kate Davis.Kate Davis – Having completed her BA in English and Politics, Kate is now starting her MA. Kate works as a volunteer advocate at Auckland Action Against Poverty and previously worked for the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Kate writes...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Parker does a Shearer – oh for a Labour Leader who can challenge msm fals...
    Sigh. It seems David Parker has done a Shearer… Like a cult and too red – Parker on LabourLabour leadership contender David Parker says Labour borders on feeling like “a cult” and must look at its branding – including its...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • A brief word on the hundreds of millions NZ is spending on the secret intel...
    The enormity of the mass surveillance state NZ Government’s have built carries a huge price tag… Kiwis pay $103m ‘membership fee’ for spyingThe $103 million taxpayer funding of New Zealand’s intelligence agencies is effectively a membership fee for joining the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Where. Is. Jason. Ede?
    Where. Is. Jason. Ede?...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Labour’s Din of Inequity
    Watching Labour’s leadership candidates on Q+A on Sunday, I noticed the ongoing use of terms like “opportunity” and “aspiration”, and “party of the workers”. What do these mean? We glean much from Labour, and from the media about Labour, but not...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • “Blue-Greenwash” fails the test when it comes to endangered dolphins
    National’s pre-election promises saw some wins for the environment – perhaps as the party sought to appease its “Blue-Green” voters and broaden its popular appeal. Some of the ecological gains were a long time in the making, overdue even– such...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Reasons not to be cheerful, Part #272b
    Why don’t you get back into bed? The next few years — the rest of this century — are not going to be pretty. There is an obvious disconnect between any remaining political ambition to fix climate change and the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • OIA protocols and official advice ignored to hide Child Poverty
    It might not seem so now, but child poverty was a major election issue. What a pity we did not have the full debate. In that debate it would have been very helpful to have seen the Ministry of Social...
    The Daily Blog | 20-10
  • Previewing the 4 candidates for Leader of the Labour Party
    The extraordinary outbursts by Shearer last week highlights just how toxic that Caucus is. Shearer was on every major media platform as the ABC attack dog tearing into Cunliffe in the hope of diminishing Cunliffe’s support of Little by tearing...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – the sudden explosion of ‘left’ blogs
    Time to Teach or more people will suffer from P.A.I.D. Political And Intellectual Dysmorphia.I was on the Twitter and a guy followed me so of course I did the polite thing and followed him back. He wrote a blog so...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Ego vs Eco
    Ego vs Eco...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • We can’t let the Roastbuster case slip away
    Those of us (like me) left with hope that the police would aggressively follow through on the large amount of evidence on offer to them (let’s not forget they forgot they even had some at one point) in the Roastbusters...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Food, shelter and medicine instead of bombs and bullets
    The on-going conflict across the Middle East – due in large part to the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq – has created another humanitarian crisis of biblical proportion. The essentials of life are desperately needed in Iraq and Syria...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • The politics of electorate accommodations
    National’s electorate accommodations with ACT and United Future were a big factor in it winning re-election. Interestingly, there is another electorate accommodation scenario whereby the centre-left could have come out on top, even with the same distribution of party votes....
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Why you should join the TPPA Action on 8 November
    On 8 November 2014, thousands of Kiwis will take part in the International Day of Action to protest the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). The rally cry for us is TPPA – Corporate Trap, Kiwis Fight Back. Why should you join...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG – Patrick O’Dea: no new coal mines
    Green Party and Mana Party policy is “NO NEW COAL MINES!” Auckland Coal Action is trying to put this policy into action on the ground. ACA after a hard fought two year campaign waged alongside local residents and Iwi, in...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Comparing Police action – Hager raid vs Roast Buster case
    This satire had the NZ Police contact TDB and threaten us with 6months in prison for using their logo.   The plight of Nicky Hager and the draconian Police actions against him has generated over  $53 000 in donations so...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Malala Yousafzai, White Saviour Complexes and Local Resistance
    Last week, Malala Yousafzai was the co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. Since her exposure to the worldwide spotlight, her spirit, wisdom and strength have touched the hearts of people everywhere. However, there have been cynics who have argued that...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Jason Ede is back – but no media can interview him?
    Well, well, well. Jason Ede, the main figure connected to John Key’s office and the Dirty Politics black ops is back with a company with deep ties to the National Party. One thing you can say about the right –...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Leadership Transitions In Other Parties: A ...
    As cannot have escaped anyone’s attention by now, the country is presently in the grips of an election and campaign that will help determine the fate of the nation for years to come. It’s gripping stuff – with clear divides...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • SkyCity worker says she faces losing her house
    SkyCity worker Carolyn Alpine told the company annual shareholder’s meeting today that she faced the prospect of losing her house because the company had cut her shifts from two a week to one without consultation. The solo mother, has worked...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • Greg O’Connor’s latest push to arm cops & 5 reasons not to
    I was wondering at what point within a 3rd term of National that Police Cheerleader Greg O’Connor would start trying to demand cops be armed. O’Connor must have thought to himself, ‘if bloody Key can get us and the GCSB vast new...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • You can’t have crisis without ISIS
    So the new scary bogeyman ISIS might have chemical weapons that the US secretly found in Iraq, but America didn’t want to expose this find because the WMDs were actually built and made by the US and Europe, the two powers...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • NZ WINS UN SPIN THE BOTTLE! Privately sucking up to America for a decade me...
    Oh, we are loved! Little old NZ, the 53rd state of America after Israel and Australia, gets to sit at the adults table for the special dinner party that is the UN Security Council. How delightful, a decade of privately...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • MEDIA BLOG – Myles Thomas – A World Without Advertising
    Non-commercial broadcasting and media. It’s a solution for all manner of problems ailing our tender nation… voter engagement, unaccountable governance, apathy, stupefaction, public education, science in schools, arts appreciation, cultural cringe… But no-one could’ve guessed that non-commercial media might solve...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October
    March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • Whack a mole as US govt foreign policy
    Whack-A-Mole was a popular arcade game from my youth.  It consisted of a waist high cabinet with holes in the top. Plastic moles seemingly randomly pop out of these holes. The purpose of the game was to hit as many...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • In Paean of Debt
    This week is ‘Money Week’. It’s an opportunity to promote to the middle classes, and anyone else who will listen, the virtues of wise ‘investment’. The aims are to promote the mystical (and indeed mythical) virtues of saving for the...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • The last 48 hours – Poverty denial, war denial and unapologetic abuse of ...
    The bewildering speed of events that simply end in Key shrugging and proclaiming he doesn’t really give a shit is coming think and fast as the Government suddenly appreciate the full spectrum dominance they now enjoy. Here is Radio NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Mana 2.0 Rebooted
    Internationally the news is that Evo Morales of Bolivia won big with Left Wing policies But what are the chances that the Left will make a resurgence in this country? As the internecine struggles between the Left and the Right...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Blomfield IPCA letter – Has Dirty Politics leaked into the NZ Police ...
    It’s difficult to know what to make of the IPCA letter to Matthew Blomfield over Slater’s continued insistence that the hard drive taken from Matthew wasn’t stolen.  Slater has selectively cherry picked the Police referring back to his claim that Blomfeild perjured...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • ​Media release: Rail and Maritime Transport Union – Auckland move for K...
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union is questioning a KiwiRail proposal to progressively relocate its Zero Harm personnel from Wellington to Auckland. “The purpose of the Zero Harm team is to drive KiwiRail’s performance in health and safety.  Rail is a...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Amnesty International – Friend request from an IS militant
    There’s always that one person, that one Facebook friend, usually a musician or event promoter, who, when you so foolishly accept their friend request, will completely inundate your news feed with copious event invitations and promotions. The person who, despite...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • NZ should follow the UK and recognize the Palestinian state
    Over the past two weeks, the United Kingdom and Sweden have made headlines through their decisions to recognize the state of Palestine. They are hardly the first nations to do so. Indeed, 134 countries have, in various ways, given formal...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Pike River Families Group Press Release
    The Families can now but hope that Solid Energy will consider closely the response of the Families’ expert mining advisers, Bob Stevenson and Dave Creedy, and the independent legal advice by Hugh Rennie QC as to why re-entry to the...
    Scoop politics | 24-10
  • On The Nation this weekend
    This weekend on The Nation… with dairy prices falling, China growing its agriculture sector, and the environmental costs piling up, we ask the Fonterra chief executive Theo Spierings if New Zealand is too dependent on milk powder and if we’ve...
    Scoop politics | 24-10
  • NZ Government Urged to Do More to Fight Ebola
    As Ebola continues to tear through West Africa, Save the Children NZ is urging the government to do more in the fight against the deadly virus....
    Scoop politics | 24-10
  • Korero Mai Ki Ahau – Saturday 25 & Sunday 26 October 2014
    Broadcast on Waatea 603AM Saturday 12.00 - 12.30pm Sunday 12.00 - 12.30pm Both shows repeated 5.00pm – 6.00pm On Sunday...
    Scoop politics | 24-10
  • Putting whānau foremost in Family Dispute Resolution
    Dispute resolution company, FairWay Resolution, has developed a uniquely New Zealand approach to family dispute resolution (FDR) that is underpinned by the cultural needs and values of the parties to a family dispute. In support of its role as a...
    Scoop politics | 24-10
  • Anglican Family Care staff to rally industrial action rises
    Public Service Association (PSA) members working at Anglican Family Care (AFC) in Dunedin will hold two rallies in Dunedin next week as they seek a fair pay offer, following a week of low-key industrial action....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Flying Visit for Adventuring Kiwi Socialpreneur
    12 Months on, this former Alexandra barista is changing lives in Buenos Aires Slums with free lunches, music, art, drama and toothbrushes...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • March in Solidarity with Kurdistan Against ISIS Attacks
    The New Zealand Kurdish Community will march in solidarity with Kurdistan in light of the heinous genocidal attacks in Kobanê by ISIS. We will begin with silent demonstrations then commence marching. We will start from Britomart, Queen Street (outside Dick...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • No Problem for Henare & Jones, But “No Way” for Harawira
    “Just before the election I broke the story about the gutting of Maori Television’s News and Current Affairs department by MTS’ new CEO Paora Maxwell. I pointed out that Carol Hirschfeld and Julian Wilcox, two of the country’s most experienced...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Corruption: Positive developments for NZ but more to be done
    Global anti-corruption group Transparency International today released a report on OECD Anti-Bribery Convention enforcement and called for New Zealand to implement draft legislation to ratify the United Nations Convention against Corruption....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Government to Blame as Much as Council for Marryatt Payout
    The Taxpayers' Union is calling on the Government to fix the employment law regime that has forced Christchurch ratepayers to fork out $800,000 to former Council boss Tony Marryatt....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Unanimously Call for Commissioner to Arm Police Full Time
    In the wake of a series of recent armed offender incidents, delegates to the Police Association Annual Conference today called unanimously on the Commissioner to arm Police full time....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Bank gets behind NZ wildlife icon with sizable donation
    It will be easier than ever this summer for holiday-markers to dip into their pockets to support the yellow-eyed penguin....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • WorkSafe report raises concerns about asbestos
    The union representing construction workers in the Canterbury rebuild is surprised at WorkSafe’s conclusion that no action needs to be taken against EQC and Fletcher EQR over asbestos exposure in Canterbury homes. “This report was an opportunity...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Union accuses SkyCity CEO of misleading public
    Unite Union has accused SkyCity CEO Nigel Morrison of misleading the public over the cut in hours for a staff member who raised the issue at the company's AGM....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Last Hurrah on the Taxpayer
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Hone Harawira spent up $54,000 on the taxpayer in his last three months as an MP, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “It is absolutely disgraceful that an MP managed to rack...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Press statement in relation to search of Nicky Hager’s home
    On 2 October 2014, Nicky Hager's home in Wellington was searched by police. Mr Hager asserted that documents kept at his house were protected by privilege, including because they contained information that might identify confidential sources....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • The Sam Simon arrives into Auckland for new campaign
    This morning Sea Shepherd ship, the Sam Simon, arrived into Auckland harbour after its journey from Melbourne. The ship and its 25 crew from around the globe have come to New Zealand to source supplies and prepare for the upcoming...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Low inflation – time for meaningful wage increases
    With inflation low, now is a good time for workers to negotiate for pay increases that outstrip price rises and deliver real increases in wages and salaries. “For too many people, real pay increases have been missing for several years...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Auckland Rates Rises Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Auckland ratepayers will face an average of a 29 percent rates increase, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “These rate rises show that Len Brown's spending is out of control.”...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Protest at New Plymouth Oil and Gas Expo
    About 30 protesters from Climate Justice Taranaki, Frack-free Kapiti, Te Uru Pounamu Action Group, Oil Free Wellington, Frack-free Manawatu and the east coast protested yesterday outside New Plymouth's biennial Oil and Gas Expo at the TSB Stadium....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • FMA warns consumers about cold-calling investment offers
    The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) is warning New Zealand consumers and investors to be wary of cold-calls asking them to buy shares or put their money into offshore firms....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Comprehensive plan needed to end child poverty
    Child Poverty Action Group says it is vital the newly re-elected National government takes a planned and comprehensive approach to reducing child poverty in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Metiria Gets Feed the Kids
    Yesterday the Speaker of the House advised that he had accepted my request to transfer my Feed the Kids (Education (Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools) Amendment) Bill to Metiria Turei of the Green Party....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • DIA undercover investigation leads to jailing
    An undercover Internal Affairs investigation has led to a Hastings man being jailed for three and half years....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of Balibo Five
    Media Information: Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of journalist Gary Cunningham and the Balibo Five...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Australia and NZ actions on press freedoms alarming
    Global support for investigative journalism in Australia and New Zealand is a welcome response to law changes and a police raid, says the Pacific Freedom Forum...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call for release of French journalists in West Papua
    West Papua Action Auckland, the EPMU Print and Media Council and the NZ Media Freedom Network call on the Minister of Foreign Affairs to speak out in support of the two French TV journalists whose trial has just begun in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Court of Appeal: Dotcom v 20th Century Fox Film Corporation
    A The appeal is dismissed. B The 20 August 2014 order of the High Court dealing with confidentiality and the 29 August 2014 order of this Court dealing with confidentiality are set aside. C The confidentiality orders set out in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Glassons Blasted For Glamourising Animal Cruelty
    Clothing brand Glassons have found themselves embroiled in another controversy after launching a new advert featuring a girl riding a bull. Animal advocacy organisation SAFE have asked them to remove the ad immediately as it glamourises animal cruelty....
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet
    Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet Federated Farmers Bee Industry Group applauds the tough line taken by Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) Border Staff at Auckland Airport. In deporting the couple found trying to smuggle bee products...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Taxpayers’ Union Responds to Joyce on Corporate Welfare
    Responding to Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce’s defence of corporate welfare , Jim Rose, the author of Monopoly Money , a Taxpayers Union report on corporate welfare since 2008, says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech from the Throne brings welcome focus on children
    Today’s speech from the Throne confirms the Government’s focus on children, youth and their families in the areas of health, education, youth employment, poverty alleviation and Whānau Ora; now the challenge is to ensure every child in New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • John’s Job Fairs no fix for unemployment and poverty
    “John Key has clearly been looking to the US for his latest bright idea on dealing with employment issues,” says Auckland Action Against Poverty coordinator Sue Bradford. “Job fairs where the desperately unemployed queue in their corporate best to compete...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech From the Throne Foreshadows More Corporate Welfare
    Responding to the Governor General’s Speech from the Throne, which outlined that the Government’s intentions for the next Parliamentary term would include further Business Growth Agenda initiatives, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Green MP to speak at panel on Rainbow Mental Health
    Hamilton, New Zealand: Recently re-elected Green Party MP Jan Logie will be a guest speaker at a panel on the mental health of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trangender, Takataapui and Intersex people taking place on November 1st as part of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Evidence Supports GE Moratorium
    Federated Farmers spokesman Graham Smith's call for a 'rethink' on release of GeneticallyEngineered organisms is misguided, and instead it is time for a formal moratorium on GMOs in the environment.(1)...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Chatham Rise mining could have impact on whales and dolphins
    Wellington, 21 October 2014--Mining phosphate on the Chatham Rise, off the east coast of New Zealand’s south island, could potentially have many impacts on marine mammals like whales and dolphins, the Environmental Protection Agency was told today....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Council endorses Nanaia Mahuta as the next Labour leader
    Te Kaunihera Māori, the Māori Council of the New Zealand Labour Party, have passed a resolution to endorse the Hon Nanaia Mahuta as the next leader of the Labour Party...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Kaumatua to organise petition to end Maori seats
    Ngapuhi kaumatua David Rankin has announced that he will be organising a nationwide petition to seek support from Maori voters to end the Maori seats. “These seats are patronising”, he says. “They imply we need a special status, and that...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Announcing a New Voice for The Left
    Josh Forman is pleased to announce the creation of a new force on the Left of politics in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Public services held back by poor workplace culture
    A new report by Victoria University’s Centre for Labour, Employment and Work shows that public servants are working significant unpaid overtime to ensure the public services New Zealanders value are able to continue....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • iPredict New Zealand Weekly Economic & Political Update
    Andrew Little’s probability of being the next leader of the Labour Party has reached 70% and Jacinda Ardern is favourite to become his deputy, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Prison Drug Treatment Unit marks a milestone
    Christchurch Men’s Prison’s Drug Treatment Unit (DTU) celebrated the completion of its 50th six month Drug and Alcohol Programme today, with the graduation of a further twelve offenders....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Security Council seat a chance for NZ to empower women
    The UN Women National Committee Aotearoa New Zealand (UN Women NCANZ) welcomes New Zealand winning a seat on the United Nations Security Council and is calling on New Zealand to use its position to proactively promote effective implementation of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Waipareira and ACC sign Partnership
    Waipareira and The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) have signed a Memorandum of Understanding at Whanau Centre, Henderson – marking a special day for the West Auckland Urban Maori organisation....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Humanitarian aid desperately needed in Iraq and Syria
    Global Peace and Justice Auckland is calling on the government to provide humanitarian funding for non-aligned NGOs (non-governmental organisations) in the Middle East rather than give any support whatever for the US-led military campaign in the area....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Court Judicial Decision: Dotcom v The USA: 17 October 2014
    The United States of America is seeking the extradition of Messrs Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and Van Der Kolk. The matter has been before the Courts on numerous occasions, and no further recitation of the facts is needed....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Marshall Island poet speaks at UN climate summit
    “The fossil fuel industry is the biggest threat to our very existence as Pacific Islanders. We stand to lose our homes, our communities and our culture. But we are fighting back. This coming Friday thirty Pacific Climate Warriors, joined by...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Many tourist car accidents preventable
    Simple steps could dramatically reduce the number of accidents involving tourists, says the car review website dogandlemon.com ....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
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