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Open mike 19/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 19th, 2014 - 248 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

248 comments on “Open mike 19/07/2014”

  1. SPC 1

    Too many Labour MP’s abandon solidarity with the party when it conflicts with their own self interest as an electorate MP.

    Samuels comments reflect this sort of thinking – as does that of Davis the current candidate. The same applies on the West Coast.

    In the MMP environment they cost Labour party list votes in the electorate and nationwide.

    The idea that whatever it takes to secure for themselves the electorate is doing their job is FPP era thinking. It is in the modern environment feathering their own nest by fouling it for the rest of the party.

    What irony that National the party of individual advancement shows more loyalty to the common well being of the party than themselves. There is strength in being united in collective cause as the polls indicate.

    • Enough is Enough 1.1

      True and Correct.

      The campaign is not looking like one to dislodge the government. If it was then accommodation should be made by Davis to ensure the left gains 3 or 4 more seats through Mana.

      The goal is to remove Key. We should be doing whatever it takes.

      • David H 1.1.1

        But it seems that Davis is only out for Davis. And bugger the bigger picture too.

    • BM 1.2

      I think it demonstrates the complete disconnect between the party and the traditional labour electorate.

      I do wonder if this isn’t a planned shift, a move away from what Labour was, the physical tradesman type party to a more Woman focused party, the thinking being potential female 50% of the vote + liberal dandy types + gays and Labour could end up with a solid block of votes which could cement themselves as the core component of the Left block.

      It’s a real polar shift but it would certainly be more reflective of what modern labour is all about.

      • SPC 1.2.1

        No, it’s just that Samuels is more a man and a Northlander than loyal to the Labour Party. This shows he should never have been chosen to represent the party in the first place.

        One can remain loyal to the party and say the obvious – it’s a surprise that some feminists think that women need to be protected from unwanted sex because they are so weak they are unable to clearly state they deny consent when this is not what they want. It’s a low opinion of other women that they need a legal protection to the point of placing all men at risk of court action for not getting consent in advance of having sex.

        Yes some in the party with leadership aspirations will pander to factions within the party and caucus – thus the recent comments from Cunliffe and Little. That is nothing new, just that women are now one of those factions.

        • The Lone Haranguer 1.2.1.1

          “SPC 1.2.1
          19 July 2014 at 9:42 am

          No, it’s just that Samuels is more a man and a Northlander than loyal to the Labour Party. This shows he should never have been chosen to represent the party in the first place.”

          Once elected is a constituent MPs first responsibility to his political party, or to the voters who voted him in?

          Just wondering……

          • SPC 1.2.1.1.1

            Er once elected he represents all constituents – even those who did not vote for him. Just as a government does at the national level.

            But as a candidate for a party he will be voting to implement their manifesto – thus saying he disagrees with his party on some local policy to curry favour with voters at an election is a grand deception – a lie to voters. Because once elected he will be voting with his party.

            • The Lone Haranguer 1.2.1.1.1.1

              I guess I didnt state my thoughts very well.

              The one think I do not like about MMP is the primary loyalty of MPs to the party rather than to their area/constituency. I do like tht it better rpresents the electorate as a whole..

              In my view, the 60 constituent MPs do have a primary responsibility to the electors, (including those who did not vote them in) and the List MPs have a primary responsibility to the Party who listed them into Parliament.

              So come election time, each group will be working primarily for the group who will get them into Parliament. Which, in my view is why the Labour MPs have no, or limited interest in helping the Greens or the IMP

        • North 1.2.1.2

          Oh, SPC…..a can of passable Oz peaches last time I looked……off you’re Zionist Gaza gig and onto Dover in the Clover what ? Check around Matauri Bay……you’ll see how peachy they DON’T see the man. Even whanau bearing the name. Understandable. With whom did he once share the NZLP electorate office in Broadway Kaikohe ? You got it……Phoney Jonesy. Now there’s a man……!

          • SPC 1.2.1.2.1

            No man is an island, not even an electorate MP. They must go south and converge with others and form a team.

            That means not identifying people by what issues they disagree on but by what united them as a team in the first place.

          • Murray Olsen 1.2.1.2.2

            Spot on, North. What I saw was that he was almost despised in Matauri Bay, as someone who just wanted to line his own pockets.

      • Jenny 1.2.2

        Too many Labour MP’s abandon solidarity with the party when it conflicts with their own self interest as an electorate MP.

        SPC

        Today it seems that solidarity is an old fashioned word in the Labour Party as Labour flatly refuses to send an official spokesperson to the rally against the current war in Palestine.

        • SPC 1.2.2.1

          The official spokesperson could be only one of three people – Cunliffe may still be on holiday with family. So it would be Shearer, or Goff or a spokesperson for disarmament Street, or her understudy.

        • srylands 1.2.2.2

          Good. Labour also failed to send a spokesperson to the rally for peace in Midland Park in Wellington yesterday.

          http://www.nzfoi.org/events_categories/upcoming-event/

          • bad12 1.2.2.2.1

            :roll: and again :roll: ….

          • freedom 1.2.2.2.2

            15 days now srylands, are you ever going to answer framu’s simple question ?

            Key will have finished his Maui briefings and will soon be returning, have you simply decided not to ever comment again on the issue of political interference ?

            • McFlock 1.2.2.2.2.1

              Since when has hypocrisy stopped sspylands from making a comment?

              • freedom

                you’d think someone had asked him to quantify pi using a jello abacus :shock:

                • Populuxe1

                  “Jelly” for god’s sake. We are not Americans yet.

                  • freedom

                    :lol: i hear you Populuxe1 ! and agree wholeheatedly. :lol:
                    t’was a conscious decision, based on the aesthetics of the phonetics, suggesting a modular, manufactured item rather than a big bouncy blob of bobblyness

          • North 1.2.2.2.3

            Do you not realise what a fuck you make yourself look SSLands ?

            “Labour also failed to send a spokesperson to the rally for peace in Midland Park in Wellington yesterday.”

            Yeah, because demonstrably it wasn’t a ‘peace’ rally. A rally for the New Zealand “Friends of Israel” to stand in solemn solidarity with Zionist Israel’s Nazi Exceptionalism is what it was. Under a thin cover of a longing for ‘peace’. Where in fact ‘peace’ equals abject surrender by the Palestinians. Not to say their ranks don’t include a few honest, hoodwinked people unaware of the true Zionist agenda.

            They stage one every time the shooting fish in a barrel recommences in Gaza. Seen them numerous times – mostly older upper middle class shuffling uncomfortably in their anoraks, fulsomely projecting tragic piety. The Foreign Ministry in Tel Aviv probably shouts Esquires coffee end of demo’.

            You’re a deluded fool SSLands. To contemplate that anyone believes you anymore. Gave it away in the link for God’s Sake – “nzfoi” – NZ Friends of Israel.

          • Jenny 1.2.2.2.4

            Srylands, maybe you could have done us all a favour and invited a spokesperson from the Conservatives or even National, to your little zionist rally. Maybe, just maybe one or both would have been stupid enough to turn up. Since this country and the whole world is sick if not sickened of these racist butchers it would gift the election to the opposition in a landslide.

            http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/arabs-dont-hate-jews-and-jews-dont-hate-arabs-or-why-you-should-go-to-auckland-to-demonstrate-against-the-genocide-in-gaza/

          • Murray Olsen 1.2.2.2.5

            Labour can’t be seen to support target practice with live Palestinian targets, SSlands. Have you booked a seat at the Sderot cinema yet?

        • Tracey 1.2.3.1

          my thoughts exactly. The stereotyping amongst other things is so mind boggling in 2014

      • Murray Olsen 1.2.4

        What a load of rubbish, BM. It’s Key who’s after the gay vote. Look at how he minces around with gay Tories at the Big Gay Out. He’s also dead against gay debauchery and strongly in favour of traditional Christian values, as shown by his sliming around a few Pasifika pastors in South Auckland.

        • Populuxe1 1.2.4.1

          Homophobic stereotyping much? Mincing? Really? The “gay vote”? “Gay debauchery”?
          Gay men do not experience patriarchal or white privilege the way gender normative white men do.
          Fuck you.

          • felix 1.2.4.1.1

            Have you ever tried reading anything in context, Pop?

          • Murray Olsen 1.2.4.1.2

            Ooops. I’ve upset a gay Tory. Bugger. A not very bright one by all accounts, but he is quick with his insults when he doesn’t understand what someone says. Which is most of the time.
            Moran.

    • blue leopard 1.3

      +100 SPC

      “What irony that National the party of individual advancement shows more loyalty to the common well being of the party than themselves”

      Perfectly summed up. I think this is the only real advantage National have.

      This isn’t just irony, it is irony to the power of irony.

    • greywarbler 1.4

      SPC 7.17
      The way I see the situation re the two parties ‘ approaches.

      I see National as being more authoritarian than Labour.

      Labour is more widely idealistic and people-oriented than National, but if that idealism becomes dominating then authoritarianism grows in Labour too.

      Labour individuals often follow their own particular belief system which involves higher principles than National of moral and fair behaviour, and these are individually varied and can lead to splintering of support into factions.

      National tends to have one goal, self advancement but Labour can develop divisions and people forget that Labour needs to be cohesive as their goals are far more ambitious than Nationals, and harder to achieve without willingness to work together and compromise somewhat.

  2. Morrissey 2

    NBC News Pulls Veteran Reporter from Gaza After Witnessing Israeli Attack on Children
    by GLENN GREENWALD,17 Jul 2014
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/17/nbc-removes-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza-coverage-witnesses-israeli-beach-killing-four-boys/

    Ayman Mohyeldin, the NBC News correspondent who personally witnessed yesterday’s killing by Israel of four Palestinian boys on a Gazan beach and who has received widespread praise for his brave and innovative coverage of the conflict, has been told by NBC executives to leave Gaza immediately. According to an NBC source upset at his treatment, the executives claimed the decision was motivated by “security concerns” as Israel prepares a ground invasion, a claim repeated to me by an NBC executive. But late yesterday, NBC sent another correspondent, Richard Engel, along with an American producer who has never been to Gaza and speaks no Arabic, into Gaza to cover the ongoing Israeli assault (both Mohyeldin and Engel speak Arabic).

    Mohyeldin is an Egyptian-American with extensive experience reporting on that region. He has covered dozens of major Middle East events in the last decade for CNN, NBC and Al Jazeera English, where his reporting on the 2008 Israeli assault on Gaza made him a star of the network. NBC aggressively pursued him to leave Al Jazeera, paying him far more than the standard salary for its on-air correspondents.

    Yesterday, Mohyeldin witnessed and then reported on the brutal killing by Israeli gunboats of four young boys as they played soccer on a beach in Gaza City. He was instrumental, both in social media and on the air, in conveying to the world the visceral horror of the attack.

    Mohyeldin recounted how, moments before their death, he was kicking a soccer ball with the four boys, who were between the ages of 9 and 11 and all from the same family. He posted numerous chilling details on his Twitter and Instagram accounts, including the victims’ names and ages, photographs he took of their anguished parents, and video of one of their mothers as she learned about the death of her young son. He interviewed one of the wounded boys at the hospital shortly before being operated on. He then appeared on MSNBC’s All In with Chris Hayes, where he dramatically recounted what he saw.

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/17/nbc-removes-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza-coverage-witnesses-israeli-beach-killing-four-boys/

    • Paul 2.1

      Shocking, yet so predictable.

    • Colonial Viper 2.2

      It now looks like NBC may have agreed to put the journalist back on the job in Gaza, due to social media pressure…

      Overall sucks though.

      • Tracey 2.2.1

        how odd, given their employerly concern for his safety

        • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.1

          Doubly odd since they had originally replaced him with yet another journalist, but this time putting one on to the firing line one not as familiar with the region and who didn’t speak Arabic…

    • Tracey 2.3

      What has the UN security council said

  3. the herald/msm clearly has dotcom-jitters..

    ..their ‘mouth-pieces’/hacks’ are all lined-up..like whining/petulant/spoilt children..

    ..stamping their feet in unison..

    ..and getting quite hot and bothered that dotcom won’t play to their agenda/timetable/demands..

    ..on an audio level..it resembles a concerted high-pitched group-tantrum..

    ..heh..!

    ..even manhire seems to have lost his/any reason..and has joined in…(!)

    • Bearded Git 3.1

      No phillip I think Manhire hits the nail on the head as usual.

      Though I guess you could argue that Dotcom is giving Key the opportunity to resign by saying he is going to drop the bombshell on 15th September. Really this should be done on 2nd September as voting starts on 3rd September.

      • phillip ure 3.1.1

        i can see the argument for 2 sept…

        ..but as there is still a huge tranche of undecided-voters five days out..

        ..i can also appreciate the epic giant-killer drama/poss. outcomes from such timing..

        ..and of course.. the 2 sept argument is also further undermined by the clear heralding of this date/timing…

        ..and any undecideds can wait ’till they see just what it is that dotcom has..eh..?

      • Tracey 3.1.2

        for whose sake? Dotcom is fighting extradition, he hasno obligation to anyone else over his legal strategy andhow he deals with it.

        • phillip ure 3.1.2.1

          bit of a mono-dimensional-view there..?

          ..and can you not see ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ in play here..

          ..even taking yr one-dimensional/(rightwing) view..

  4. I’m loving this John Armstrong – “KDC should do this, KDC should do that – put up or shut up, prove beyond reasonable doubt, the time has come for this and the time has come for that, they should be told today, not tomorrow, not next week and certainly not when it is most politically advantageous for the Internet Mana leadership – Dotcom, Laila Harre and Hone Harawira…”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11295776

    The right frothing because with KDC they lose the narrative – they lose control of the story, they don’t know how to spin it apart from impotent anger and threats.

    Edit – snap phil

    • Enough is Enough 4.1

      Is KDC in the headlines really serving any good for us on the left though. He is a distraction and preventing the positive message we have being told.

      I for one am getting angry with this side show at such an important point in our history.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        “..I for one am getting angry with this side show at such an important point in our history..”

        many cd/wd say this about key/this corrupt/sell-out government..eh..?

      • marty mars 4.1.2

        He’s in the headlines because he is exposing the liar and that is definitely good for the left. Key’s tipping point will come and he’ll say some smartarse comment that doesn’t sit well with the ‘middle’ and then a groundswell could occur. That’s my hope anyway.

        Seems a less risky strategy than waiting on labour…

      • bad12 4.1.3

        i could name another Party that seems to have taken on all the aspects of ‘a sideshow’, politeness at this stage though prohibits me from doing so…

      • James 4.1.4

        I think there are a lot more people that are getting sick of him than hold him in admiration.

        I think he could do untold damage to Mana for the long term.

        • bad12 4.1.4.1

          Well no James, i have moved across from the Green Party to InternetMana and when the ‘roadshow’ reaches Wellington will be on hand to greet them which will be my first attendance at a specific Party event in a long long time,

          i hope to get the chance not only to connect with fellow InternetMana-ites here in Wellington with a view to expanding at least the Mana Parties presence and activism here in the Capital, but, also to see if Hone can’t spend some effort here after the 2014 contest gathering together the thin strands of Mana support in the lower North Island into a cohesive entity that has the capability of delivering at least leaflet drops to whole electorates…

        • phillip ure 4.1.4.2

          @ james..

          ..and the packed halls the harawira/harre/dotcom roadshow is getting up north..

          ..are indicitive of what..?..exactly..?

    • Paul 4.2

      Armstrong is the antithesis of a journalist.
      See Morrissey’s comment at 2 if you want to see evidence of real journalism…and how the owners of media deal with those independent enough to think for themselves.

    • freedom 4.3

      “But Dotcom needs a change of government if he is to have any hope of avoiding extradition to the United States.”

      So according to John Armstrong the courts no longer have a say in the matter? This is a massively disturbing concept for a journalist to espouse. Our government controls judicial process?

      • BM 4.3.1

        The Extradition Act 1999 says the Justice Minister can say no “for any other reason the Minister considers that the person should not be surrendered”.

        Hopefully you’re not that naive to think he’s entered politics to “make NZ a better place”

        Here’s an article by Patrick Gower that goes into more detail.

        http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Labour-Greens-willing-to-free-Dotcom/tabid/1382/articleID/331730/Default.aspx

        • freedom 4.3.1.1

          I was aware of that, and of the pinnacle of objectivity that is Gower, but it all points to the conclusion which only adds weight to the theory the National Government allowed Dotcom to stay because they plan to extradite him.

          How that plan was formulated …….?

          • BM 4.3.1.1.1

            which only adds weight to the theory the National Government allowed Dotcom to stay because they plan to extradite him.

            That makes no sense at all.

            also

            So according to John Armstrong the courts no longer have a say in the matter? This is a massively disturbing concept for a journalist to espouse. Our government controls judicial process?

            Why the shock and surprise if you already knew?

            • freedom 4.3.1.1.1.1

              No shock or surprise here. The Standard is read by a whole lot of people who never comment and sometimes things get written that is completely for their benefit. I presented it as a question because of the fait accompli Armstrong presented.

  5. OnceWasPete 5

    I thought the raids on his mansion was an abuse of process and law, so I was prepared to cut him a lot of slack. But my sympathy has gone. The sooner this nazi sympathising criminal is gone the better. And today I saw one ACT policy I can agree with! Politicians should stay clear of immigration decisions.

    • Tracey 5.1

      Yeah you were prepared to cut him some slack cos thats the kind of rational thinking guy you are… Rolleyes

    • North 5.2

      OnceWasPete @ 5 – “nazi sympathising……” KDC ?

      Consistency check please. Your relatively untroubled ‘moral comfort’ sitting alongside the IDF non-terrorists ?

      • SPC 5.2.1

        North agreeing with your opinion on the Israel/Palestine matter is not a test of whether the person is capable of taking a moral position or whether their opinion has any credibility on other matters.

        One thing that brings disunity to the left is holding grudges against those who take another side on an issue – such as Samuels and others such as Tamihere who side with men when the Labour party addresses the concerns of women.

        • Murray Olsen 5.2.1.1

          Tamihere never sided with me. I’m pretty sure I’m a man. The concerns of women are not orthogonal to the concerns of men, although they may be at variance with the concerns of knuckle dragging morans.

          • SPC 5.2.1.1.1

            Sure, but those people will claim that Labour does not represent them when it addresses the concerns of women. Tamihere abused women in the Labour caucus (for being ranked ahead of him a Maori man who has cultural issues with women in leadership) and Samuels then says he will not vote Labour because of it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.3

      Is that the new flaccid equivalent of “I voted Labour once…”, so transparently insincere and feeble, much?

  6. Morrisseey 6

    A nasty liar and propagandist is live on air right now
    Tune into Radio NZ National if you can bear it

    Right now (8:25 a.m.) Kim Hill is interviewing one of the sleaziest people in America, Alex Gibney. He’s one of the “liberal” scourges of Julian Assange….
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13072013/#comment-662336

  7. karol 7

    I’ve never heard of this guy before – shows my lack of knowledge back in my younger days.

    But he sounds quite an impressive guy – from the shipyards of Clydeside, to NZ Boilermakers Union. Sounds like a worthy life, now ended.

    Con Devitt, RIP.

    • Te Reo Putake 7.1

      He was a lovely bloke, Karol and absolutely committed to his union members. On one building project he was told that the bosses were being gifted portable TV’s as bonuses for achieving targets. He swiftly and successfully argued that it was his members that actually did the work that triggered the bonuses, so they should get them too.

      He was quite a talker, always liked a good yarn, but had the knack of adapting his language to his audience. That is, he would explain the way he saw things in a way that meant that was the way you saw things too.

      Sad to see him go.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

        He swiftly and successfully argued that it was his members that actually did the work that triggered the bonuses, so they should get them too.

        We so need more people to realise that. It’s not the management that does the work.

      • nadis 7.1.2

        He did such good work with the BNZ building in Wellington. The last time boilermakers were ever used on a large building project in NZ.

      • nadis 7.1.3

        He did such good work with the BNZ building in Wellington. The last time boilermakers were ever used on a large building project in NZ.

        • greywarbler 7.1.3.1

          Would someone like to comment on nadis ‘snida’ comment on Con Devitt? I seem to remember the rusty hulk of BNZ building standing idle for ages. And the adent on concrete thereafter. What was the story?

          • nadis 7.1.3.1.1

            I’ll reply for you. Personally I’m not anti union, in fact in my business I’m supportive of the clerical staff being union members, it actually makes my life easier as I don’t need to worry about negotiating conditions, salary etc while still leaving me the right to pay or provide more PIK to the really good staff who I want to encourage to stay. But the boilermakers union was the posterboy for every bad practice that gutted the union movement. Legendary practices like holding up the entire job for weeks while a single continuous weld was welded, not quite finished at knock off time, and then started again the next day. They were experts at finding little tasks that could hold up the entire project and then using that as leverage for newer and bigger demands. Requiring a two tradesmen and two assistants to perform task as simple as tightening a single screw on a hose clip.

            What was really bizarre about this hard left union behaviour was the “if we can’t win we’ll burn down both our houses” attitude. A lot of the union leadership were “refugees” from the UK where their unions had withered and died because of infexibility in the face of european competition – a lot of these UK unionists came here pre-Thatcher as the heavy industries they had come from were devastated even before Thatcher attacked the public sector unions, those in the private sector were already broken pre-Thatcher due to the 70’s recession. I still can’t believe the attitude of a lot of theses guys, they did exactly the same things that didnt work in the UK in the face of exactly the same pressures that were redefining those traditional occupations here in NZ.

            I was personally involved in a fair bit of stuff (strikes, meetings, table pounding about “management scum stealing from the working comrade” as a young union member of a trade related union at this time and then as a (very) junior salaried engineer who spent an awful lot of time sitting in the canteen reading the newspaper while one hour stop work meetings decamped to the pub for an entire day.

            Very different world to now.

          • Te Reo Putake 7.1.3.1.2

            nadis can’t comment on Con, greywarbler. Clearly from his comment he didn’t actually know him, but he’s happy to post waffly smears about the boilermakers union as if they were his first hand experiences.

            • nadis 7.1.3.1.2.1

              You’re a fool. I never claimed to know him or be associated in any way with the boilermakers union.

              But the atrocious behaviour of the boilermakers union was/is very common knowledge as was the fact that the BNZ building was the last major commercial contract let in NZ that ever relied on boilermakers. In fact just google BNZ building, boilermakers union and you’ll find plenty.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Good to know that you haven’t got any first hand experience of the man, but you feel brave enough to run him down when he’s dead.

              • bad12

                It was great to work for companies that employed the boilermakers on heavy engineering jobs,

                As a 16 year old i got a job with a small firm engaged in the construction of the then massive Todd Motors complex at Porirua,

                This firm built all the heavy hangers which were then hung from the roof of the complex upon which all the car making equipment, spray machinery/welders etc were installed,

                My job consisted of, once the platform was hung from the roof in the correct position to climb up to roof height and tighten the sixteen giant bolts that held the structure in place,

                On the first day of this mammoth task it took me all of to morning smoko time to complete the task, being keen i hit the foreman up for the next task only to be told to find something interesting to do because the next platform wasn’t arriving until the following day,

                That was the sum total of my daily toil, and, even as a labourer the pay was great thanks to the union awards,

                Finding something interesting to do as per the instructions from the foreman proved a slightly harder task, one of these which had the whole site in fits was to kidnap passing labourers sloping off from other crews working on site and hold them down while welding their steel-caps together…

  8. Tautoko Viper 8

    It seems that political journalists only do opinion pieces now. It must be too hard for them to compare and contrast policies. How much easier it is for them to indulge their own personal prejudices. See (or don’t bother to read) Tracy Watkin’s latest factless gossip-column standard opinion piece in Stuff.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10285813/Cunliffe-needs-us-to-like-trust-him

  9. bad12 9

    The September election just went ‘Hot’, from Stuff.co.nz, Winston Peters is saying that if National pull Murray McCully from the East Coast Bays electorate He is well prepared to go head to head with Colon Craig for the seat,

    i have been picking NZFirst(who along with Colon’s Conservatives are having a conference this weekend), to be ‘light’ of the 5% needed to get back into the Parliament in election 2014,

    Should Peters contest East Coast Bays in a head to head with Craig tho, i think the publicity will not only push NZFirst over the 5% thresh-hold, but, Peters will actually win the seat…

      • bad12 9.1.1

        Peters gives Labour a ‘hint’,also from Stuff.co.nz, speaking of the 2011 election where then Labour Leader Phill Goff campaigned upon raising the age of superannuation entitlement Winston Peters said, ”I think that cost them,(Labour), the election in 2011– later adding, ”Don’t they get it”,

        Having banged on about the ‘Super issue’ endlessly here at the Standard i can inform Winston that ‘they’ sure as hell just ‘don’t get it’…

        • Kiwiri 9.1.1.1

          Indeed.
          Thanks for these which I didn’t see when I posted #19 below.

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.2

          Yep. Not even banging on about it at the Labour Party conference in 2013 led many in the party to get it. Stuck in the neoliberal fiscal-balance the books paradigm, fully supported by data from Treasury.

          • bad12 9.1.1.2.1

            Worse than that CV was David Parker ‘giving the game away’ with His recent comments on ‘future tax cuts’,(enough said, i am trying to keep my focus on a winning election 2014 mindset)…

            • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.2.1.1

              yeah it’s hard to stay focussed, keeping that Tourette’s under control isn’t easy…

              • bad12

                My how you must suffer CV, you should have told all the readers you suffered from such a debilitating disease long ago…

                • Colonial Viper

                  To be clear, I was mentioning the condition on a purely figurative basis. My lack of impulse control on The Standard is entirely my own responsibility…

      • Tracey 9.1.2

        and hooton was the conservatives guest speaker advising them to go big on

        Smacking
        death penalty
        Religion

        They cheered him roundly. I wonder how much he was paid to preach to the concerted on those topics

        • Matthew Hooton 9.1.2.1

          Actually, they weren’t so big on the death penalty. Biggest response when I told them to do more god. (Obviously, smacking is core policy for them already.)

  10. karol 10

    So heads of ministries are required to make public annual declarations of their expenses to June. This year’s have been uploaded to ministry websites, Stuff reports.

    Their average expenses are higher than the “average” income for full time workers. the State Services Commissioner has an itemised breakdown of expenses: includes a fair number of overseas visits to meet with “counter[arts”.

    Ian Fletcher’s expenses are not itemised. This is how he has publicly reported them:

    Expenses for 1 July 2013 – 30 June 2014
    Domestic travel: $4,493.44
    International travel: $25,796.68
    Hospitality and entertainment given (including gifts): $1,145.83
    Hospitality and entertainment received (including gifts): $29.00
    Taxi (domestic and international): $2,192.31
    Cell phone: $2,143.47

  11. Morrisseey 11

    Kim Hill interviews one of America’s most vile propagandists

    I listened in mounting fury to Kim Hill interviewing that smooth and vicious liar Alex Gibney this morning. It’s difficult to imagine a sleazier guest. I sent the following email in protest….

    Alex Gibney is not fit to judge Lance Armstrong or anyone else

    Dear Kim,

    Alex Gibney lauds the cycling reporters who were “dedicated to telling the truth.” That’s dark irony, coming from Gibney, whose film We Steal Secrets was a Stalinist-style axe job on the most important truth-teller of our time, Julian Assange.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    I commented on this vicious propagandist last year…..
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13072013/#comment-662336

    • Populuxe1 11.1

      Casting a side eye at the cavalier trivialisation of rape culture. Fancy that.

  12. Morrissey 12

    Just been banned at Whaleoil

    Damn! Should have been nicer….

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/07/whaleoil-general-debate-28/#comment-1491931972

    • Te Reo Putake 12.1

      You don’t appear to have been banned. Just told to pull your head in.

      • felix 12.1.1

        Yeah but he had to read it very quickly and only had time to jot down the gist of it.

        He never said it was a literal report.

        However his impression is guaranteed to be word perfect.

        etc.

        • sockpuppet 12.1.1.1

          You really do seem to have a bizarre fixation with Morrissey Felix.

          Perhaps if you concentrated as much of your focus on your musical musings you might rise to the equivalent heights that Morrisey has as a media critic.

          Until you do put in the hard yards you’ll remain a fourth rate hack.

        • Tracey 12.1.1.2

          chuckle

  13. bad12 13

    Colon Craig’s Conservatives are holding a conference this weekend, the Party manifesto rumored to be writ large on rolls of tinfoil and given to members as they enter the venue with instructions on how to use it as ‘a wrap’ is said by Winston Peters to have been plagarized from the NZFirst online policy manifesto,

    Another rumor has it that Colon the Conservative had the ‘golden rules’ passed to Him from the space aliens after they had successfully carried Him off one night for a ‘probing’ which along with relieving Colon of 30% of His body weight also reversed His anatomical processes with the lower bowel functions now carried out above the neck,

    Wee Matty Hooton, ever desperate for a starring role, with panhandler desperation, pretended? to be a chimp for the opening stanza of the Conservatives Conference held this weekend,

    You have to wonder just how much money changed hands to enable Hooton the luxury of dribbling to a live audience of the politically committed, and here, the inquiry isn’t intended to imply that Colon the Conservative passed monies to wee Matty so He could waste space upon the stage,

    Colons Conservatives are said to be having the first’ nationwide letterbox drop’ this weekend, people should be advised to burn these pamphlets at the letterbox as there may be some health risk if taken into the home…

    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      Colon’s first print enema arrived in letterboxes today. It is mostly negative pandering to kid whackers etc in English only no reo here, and includes a reactionary quiz–e.g. “prisoners should be working–Yes, No.

      • Tracey 13.1.1

        funny how no one is lambasting craig for starting a party to make it legal to hit his children…

    • David H 13.2

      “Colons Conservatives are said to be having the first’ nationwide letterbox drop’ this weekend”

      Return to Sender?

      Whyte n Craig on the Nation today. Nutter vs nutter

      • freedom 13.2.1

        ahhh the joy of P.O.Boxes __ no unsolicited junkmail :)

        • karol 13.2.1.1

          Ah. Yeah. Most of the junk mail goes to my landlord’s street-side mail box – except the occasional one that slips through addressed to me personally at my street address. I fail to understand how some people just ignore my PO Box addy.

          • freedom 13.2.1.1.1

            Some have to of course. Some IRD and NZTA stuff requires a street address.
            The trick to a happy P.O.Box is remembering to pay the bill :)

            Couple of years ago I missed an end of year quarterly payment and they closed and sold the box (I was away and missed their ‘closing box’ notices, but they had my phone number and never used it) I missed out getting a whole stack of Christmas stuff :( One brother just sent the returned card the next year :)

            • greywarbler 13.2.1.1.1.1

              @freedom
              The bit about NZPost not contacting you about planning on selling your POBox number is one of the slack behaviours that have led to them losing their business. The internet etc is causing it to drop away yes, but if you seek to keep customer’s with you and keep them happy, this maintains the base.

              It takes work and attention to detail and involves employing people who have the task as part of their job and are monitored as to how well they are doing it, with sacking for non-performance. It seems to underline the meme that governments end up being slack, careless and inefficient – hence clever private operators can carry out appendectomies on gummint services to relieve the blockage, and our purses!

              If that had been the situation that disgraceful Queenstown situation would never have happened. And how much slackness has gone under the radar before, that it took such a doozy of a breakdown in service to come to notice?

              • freedom

                The postal side is a mess for sure. Overworked poorly managed. The front-office here though do a really good job considering the broad rural & townie populace they service and also being a Kiwibank branch the demands on their time are intense.

                The not ringing me bit is what I very calmly complained about because my number was right there in the Boxholder’s information. But… paying the bill on time was ultimately my responsibility which I failed to meet and on that they were 100% correct.

          • Tracey 13.2.1.1.2

            interesting billboards in epsom

            ACT have two, one for seymour and one with unclecousin for party. Internet mana for party, and john key for party vote. NO Goldsmith billboard.

            ACT is saying TOUGHER ON CRIME , :-)

        • lprent 13.2.1.2

          The joy of having the letter boxes on the inside of the magnetically locked door at my apartment block. NZ Post has a card, the junk mailers do not.

          • freedom 13.2.1.2.1

            I am picturing banks of scanners and laser sight cross hairs trained on junk-mail carriers :evil:

            • lprent 13.2.1.2.1.1

              Nah. Always go to passive discouragement. Can’t get in the door. Can’t leave junk mail.

              It is like changing the garage access. Adding a cardswipe from the garage to the stairwell stopped people leaving their cards in their cars. That meant that car thieve getting into the garage couldn’t find a card to drive out of the garage with a car. Car thefts dropped dramatically.

              • greywarbler

                @lprent
                The car thief problem is a good example of intelligent problem solving. Good thinking, identify problem, analyse causes, consider various solutions, choose one and check it is suitable and not onerous, and whether it works to solve or alternatively, decimate the problem stats.

                Let’s have this approach applied to most problems. If there are cultural concerns for that particular group, or involved groups in the area, then widen the considerations and have numbers of meetings that keep presenting the problem and prioritising the best solutions, to ensure that thinking is kept productively on target and dissimulation does not limit targeted discussion time. Arrive at near consensus, with last minute concerns listened to and provided for.

          • Draco T Bastard 13.2.1.2.2

            Still amazes me that the government didn’t include junk mail in the anti-spam legislation. Both waste time and resources and yet junk mail seems to be considered valuable.

            • bad12 13.2.1.2.2.1

              It does tho keep a whole industry going, Parts of which we would obviously like to clean up their river polluting ways,

              From the trees cut in the forest, to the paper making mills of the Central North Island and onto various printing factories the stuff gets to employ thousands as well as those who continually stuff the (expletive deleted) letterbox with it,

              From my letterbox, i being the only unpaid serf in the equation, walk it to my recycle wheelie bin where the paid employee of the City Council whips it via mechanical arm into the back of the dump truck and from there off to be sorted and sent off to a paper recycle facility where it is processed and becomes part of the magic circle,

              i would put one of those, ”i am going to commit bodily harm on you if i catch you sticking junk mail in here” signs on my letterbox but the above reasons prevent me from curtailing anyone’s employment even in such a waste of resources junk industry such as the delivered advertising i seldom bother reading…

              • Draco T Bastard

                It does tho keep a whole industry going

                Which actually amounts to a public subsidy to that industry due to the fact that it is our rates that end up paying for the disposal foisted upon us by the advertisers – a subsidy that we would never choose to pay as no one likes, or wants, junk mail. If junk mail is allowed to continue solely to keep an industry going, especially one that causes so much waste, then we have a problem. Such waste is, by its very definition, uneconomical.

                • bad12

                  Really Draco, much the same could be said about ‘paper shuffling’ employees of both local and central Government,

                  So how are you going to achieve full employment again Draco,(that’s rhetorical please don’t answer as my laughter will likely be a danger to my health)…

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    You really are saying that people should be employed to dig holes and then fill them in. Actually, that would be better than keeping the junk mail option that you advocate.

                    • bad12

                      Certainly Draco so long as they were paid the ‘living wage’ and a rooted tree was inserted into the hole befor the filling back in bit was accomplished…

              • deep throat

                just like jellymeat.
                think of all them poor nags.
                two massive industrys producing utter meaningless crap and stinking up the planet.

      • Vicky32 13.2.2

        ““Colons Conservatives are said to be having the first’ nationwide letterbox drop’ this weekend”

        In the middle of wind and rain! :) I found one in my letter box and others which had blown down the street. A lot of money spent for very little.
        Vicky

  14. the american sentencing commission has just voted to give federal judges the ability to radically reduce the sentences of those in america serving mega-sentences for cannabis ‘crimes’..

    ..when the time comes..we need to do this here..

    ..the latest obscenity around this here..

    ..is someone losing half of their house..

    ..because they had a (single-figure) number of cannabis plants..(!)

    ..f.f.s..!..how does that come within a bulls’-roar of anything even faintly resembling justice..?

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/46k-drugs-prisoners-could-get-reduced-sentences-comment-ed-we-need-to-do-this-here/

    • bad12 14.1

      You will be long in your box befor the ‘time comes here’ Phillip…

      • deep throat 14.1.1

        go phil.
        cannabis will be legalised in the next term .
        At the momen tthe hold up is by justice industry who are making monopoly profits and institutional promotions by criminalising something that would be nothing if it were left to people to sort out for themselves.
        the kid who walks out in front of traffic is the same kid who will use drugs just to annoy the authorities when they dont realise that they are just ensuring white collar employment at exorbitant salaries.

        • bad12 14.1.1.1

          Lolz, and i thought Phillip was the only one delusional enough to think that Marijuana will be decriminalized by the next Parliament,

          Laughable, you should start communicating in … as well…so we could all recognize the brotherhood…as…we scroll down the page…

          • deep throat 14.1.1.1.1

            have a tui mate.
            you’ll get over it.
            maybe half a doz.
            then sink a few woodies and go and beat your wife up coz she doesn’t look as good as pammie!

            [lprent: Don’t advocate violence on this site even in some kind of perverted jest. Or I will demonstrate how banning operates here. ]

            • bad12 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Well isn’t that just marvelous, i would assume seeing as you give out such advice that your well practiced in carrying out the same behavior as the norm on your Saturday night,

              There are a lot of expletives that i would attach to anyone advising inflicting physical harm to their spouse deep throat, scum, being one that easily springs to mind,

              My advice to you F off and engage in the behavior your user-name implies,( i would have reminded you not to foget to swallow but imagine your an expert at that as well)…

  15. swordfish 15

    For those interested in the Minor parties, I’ve just set out details of their poll support this year, here…….http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/

    Dasvidaniya.

    • ianmac 15.1

      Great to get real data thanks Swordfish. Must be tough for the minor parties to see such a small share. And still they box on in spite of the adversity.

    • Tracey 15.2

      thanks fish

  16. Jenny 16

    Boiling the Frog stuff.co.nz July 19, 2014

    Let’s have more new coal mines, deep sea oil wells and frack where ever we can.

    Let’s put up the age of Super to keep older folk working longer, and younger people out of jobs longer

    Lets leave in place GST rises, and remove tax cuts for the low paid.

    Let’s ignore the crisis in Palestine and turn down an invitation to have our representative to speak at the Auckland rally at 2pm in Aotea square today.

    Let’s lose the election so we can bury the Left.

  17. Pete 17

    I wonder if the missile strike on MH17 would be construed as an attack on Malaysia. If so, we are obligated under the Five Power Defence Arrangements to have consultations with Malaysia, Singapore, Australia and the UK.

    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      Ahhhh good questions.

      And to lose 2 airliners in 6 months? Something screwy is going on. Apparently the previous 10 MH-17 flights did not go over Eastern Ukraine, but cleared south of it.

      • freedom 17.1.1

        will it hinder the Malaysian bid for the Asian seat on the UN Security Council?

      • travellerev 17.1.2

        I flew that Malaysian airliner Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur route once about 9 years ago and it flew way south of it. In fact it flew straight over Iraq and I remember thinking how weird it was that we where flying over a war zone safely.

        • Populuxe1 17.1.2.1

          And your evidence for this other than the GPS chip the illuminati aliens inserted in your brain?

        • Te Reo Putake 17.1.2.2

          “I flew that Malaysian airliner Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur route once about 9 years ago and it flew way south of it. In fact it flew straight over Iraq …”

          Big whoop. The planned flight path of MH17 would have taken it to within a few hundred km of Iraq anyway if it hadn’t been shot down. If there was wind from a different direction, it might well have gone further south. The routes are not set in stone and they vary according to the conditions.

  18. ianmac 18

    Willie Jackson is on fire! Tuned in to watch Paul Henry and Michele Boag all set to demolish Kim Dot Com and Labour. After a dreary smug start from Michelle, Kaboom! Willie took over and rubbished the Henry/Boag position. Hilarious.
    Start 17:35min
    http://www.tv3.co.nz/THE-PAUL-HENRY-SHOW-Friday-July-18-2014/tabid/3692/articleID/101430/MCat/3901/Default.aspx

  19. Kiwiri 19

    This may be of interest to you all:

    “You don’t test the water with both feet,” Peters told the Timaru RSA this week, adding that giving hints would weaken his negotiating position.

    Although he has primarily targeted National since returning to Parliament following the 2011 election, attacking the Government on its asset sales programme, Peters said Labour was also promoting policies to which NZ First was strongly opposed.

    Before the 2011 election, NZ First warned it could not support a Labour government proposing to raise the retirement age and to extend capital gains tax in the way it was proposing. Labour leader David Cunliffe has affirmed both policies going into the September 20 election.

    “I think that lost them [Labour] the election [in 2011],” Peters said in an interview this week. “Don’t they get it?”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10285548/Peters-keeps-mum-on-who-he-d-back
    (Hamish Rutherford)

    • Kiwiri 19.1

      My comment is awaiting moderation (apologies, I typed an incomplete name in the field).

  20. Chooky 20

    On the Need for a Media Shakeup once the Labour Left Coalition Wins the Election

    By Martyn Bradbury / July 19, 2014

    “With a survey out this week reminding us that 83% of all New Zealanders watch traditional television every day, it’s no wonder the media generated hate figure of Cunliffe results in poll ratings as low as they currently are.

    I started the daily blog in the wake of the 2012 Labour Party conference. I was very close to Cunliffe at the time and had been pestering him constantly during the conference about whether or not he would push a challenge against David Shearer as the blogs had been advocating when the membership changed the voting rules. His response surprised me, it was a flat out no with a very impassioned, ‘I am a servant to the Party’ styled justification.

    This was annoying and frustrating. Unfortunately for the blogger in me, there would be no scoop because David Cunliffe was far too principled to launch a coup against Shearer. The disappointment quickly evaporated into jaw dropping shock as I watched Patrick Gower manufacture a false narrative about a leadership coup and crucified Cunliffe on the 6pm News. I know there was no coup because I was the one sitting on Cunliffe’s elbow saying, “you should take out Shearer’ and Cunliffe was point blank refusing to do that.

    Watching Cunliffe then get punished for that loyalty was a burning injustice that inspired my decision to gather together the best bloggers the left have and put them all on one site to review the news daily in an attempt to give the other side of the story to the one the mainstream media manufacture. If Gower could deliberately spike a story and twist it that far from reality, then what hope for a well informed citizenry to engage with the civic issues of our day?

    This counter narrative seems more important to the NZ media landscape than ever before. The current level of negative bias being exhibited by the conservative corporate media towards David Cunliffe suggests National’s infamous Australian consultants, Crosby-Textor, have suddenly gained editorial staff positions on every branch of broadcasting….

    …Voters who have written Cunliffe off based on the media generated bias will be forced to challenge those views when they see him in action on the campaign trail and in the all essential debates.

    If their boy Key does fail to win a majority, watch how quickly the media will start proclaiming Cunliffe and Labour have no mandate to govern. Even if Labour win, they will never get a break from the rightwing media and they shouldn’t expect one.

    If Cunliffe leads the country after September 20th, a better Public Broadcasting policy needs to be in his top 5 list”.

    .
    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/19/wow-the-press-gallery-really-felt-bitter-about-backing-grant-robertson-didnt-they/#sthash.jFefxXIH.dpuf

    • karol 20.1

      Yes, that about covers it.

      Also Bradbury’s comment re the (alleged) left wing bias of the MSM.

  21. Draco T Bastard 21

    DOC restructuring a failure

    The State Services Commission has found that the Government’s restructuring of the Department of Conservation (DOC) is not working, the Green Party said today.

    The report identifies that managerial roles which were eliminated by the National Government are returning in an ad-hoc way out of necessity. Staff are concerned about ongoing workplace stress and a concerning increase in injury rates. The report identifies two areas which are weak, 11 areas that need development, no areas where the department is strong and only three in which it is well placed.

    National’s restructuring proven to have failed New Zealand – again.

    • ianmac 21.1

      Well done Dr Smith no doubt at the command of Genius Joyce.
      What we had was something to be proud of.
      What we have now is shameful.

      • Tracey 21.1.1

        ah, joyce, the man who rubbished labours garage grants for a few days and then announced his own.

    • Kiwiri 21.2

      It would be nice to hear something from Labour’s spokesperson for the environment too.

  22. karol 22

    Stuff has a broken link on the top of it’s main page. I found the original and still working link to the Dom Post article via google:

    “Weather outlook, we’re warming up”

    Last year set records for high temperatures around the world, giving New Zealand its warmest winter, and Australia its hottest year since records began.

    The warming climate also brought with it droughts, floods and storms – the only silver lining was that Kiwis were a bit less likely to get sunburnt.

    Over the past two summers, the ozone hole was smaller, weaker and broke up sooner than in past years, according to the State of the Climate in 2013 report, published yesterday by the United States National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
    […]
    Victoria University climatologist James Renwick, who collaborated on the report, said the conclusions showed the globe was continuing to heat up. While many Kiwis might take comfort in warmer winters, he warned such seasons came hand-in-hand with more severe storms, droughts, floods, and sea level rise.

    “You hear about global warming of two or three degrees and you think that’s the difference between 9 o’clock in the morning and midday. But what we consider a warm year now will be considered a cold year in future.”

    Renwick said last year’s North Island drought was a warning that the agricultural industry would increasingly feel the pinch. It was adaptable – farmers might swap cold-climate crops such as apples to dry-suited pineapples and bananas – but without significant emissions changes, it was unavoidable, he said.

  23. bookmark this one..!

    ..craig vs. whyte..on the nation..

    ..see whyte sulk his way thru the whole performance..

    ..at the same time so looking down his nose..

    ..he’ll likely need some chiropractic-treatment for his neck..

    ..it’s quite funny..bless him..!..eh..?

    ..whyte continues his stellar run of disasterous/laugh-out-loud media appearances..

    ..and knock me over with a feather..!

    ..i like one half of craigs’ tax-policy..(!)..(eek..!..)

    ..the first twenty grand tax-free part..

    ..it’s positively socialist..!

    ..and makes/shows labours’ non-efforts in this area as piss-weak as they actually are..

    • does anyone really think that if labour came out with a poverty-denting tax-free threshold..

      ..that they wd not see a jump in the polls..?

      • phillip ure 23.1.1

        and of course..still flying that tattered/stained/rancid raising the pension age policy..

        ..that wouldn’t be having a negative effect on labours’ polling..?

        ..would it..?

        (so..there ya go..!..ditch that useless flag..and dent that poverty..

        ..and then sit back and watch yr stocks rise..

        ..it is quite basic poltical-science..that formula..eh..?

        ..to not do both..will have the opposite effect..

        ..and for the raising the pension one especially..

        ..you are going to get hammered by national/crosby-textor..

        ..they will push the buttons of all those who only hear..’raising the pension-age’..

        ..and this will further hurt labour..

        ..does anyone really think it won’t..?

        • phillip ure 23.1.1.1

          and why is labour so scared of the populism of their roots..?

          ..have they been away so long..they can’t find their way back..?

          ..labour needs to promise real change from this key govt..

          ..’we’re not quite as bad as them’..isn’t enough….

          ..it meeds to out-mana mana..

          ..it needs to out-green the greens..

          ..it needs to promise to end poverty..

          ..to take us to the new zealand most of us want..

          ..and then together with internet/mana..greens..

          …to get that mandate to make those changes..

          ..and then to get cracking/on with it..

          ..shorthand:..labour needs to grow/show a set of (non-gender-specific) policy-balls..

          ..for many to start believing in them..again..

      • The Lone Haranguer 23.1.2

        No. Labour will be mocked mercilessly for a policy like that.

        Remember “show me the money” last time? Unless Labour can put forward a comprehensive costing showing how they will fund it, then they will be toast. (again)

        Chernobyling the Green and IMP vote to save some Labour MPs arses, is hadly a winning strategy.

        IMP is a good enough reason for the “missing 800,000″ to come out and vote, but I cant see them turning out on election day.

        • phillip ure 23.1.2.1

          “..Unless Labour can put forward a comprehensive costing showing how they will fund it..”

          ..financial transaction tax on the banksters..(treasury said that would raise as much as that tax that hurts the poorest most..gst..does..)

          ..and as part of a concerted effort to turn around the ever-yawning inequality. in new zealand…?

          ..a land tax wd be a good place to start..

    • Tracey 23.2

      sadly to get it you also get beating your children, ridiculous knee jerks criminal justice system and no decent sex and relationship ed in schools

  24. James 24

    Awesome news this morning. Just heard that Peters has ruled out working with Internet Mana.

    Thats a good sign.

    He hates the Greens, and now wont work with Kim’s party.

    Not going to help the ‘left’ block at all.

    If he gets past 5% and goes with the Nats – the left will be decimated.

    • Bearded Git 24.1

      James-Peters could go with Labour on the proviso that both they Greens and IMP are kept out of the coalition. He would love that. He would also insist as a bottom line that the pension age remain at 65.

      Meanwhile the Greens and IMP would have no option other than to support Labour/NZF on confidence and supply.

      • bad12 24.1.1

        There is another option Bearded git, one which i quite like the thought of, both the Green Party and InternetMana if faced with a ‘lockout’ by a Labour/NZFirst bloc in the Parliament could simply offer nothing to anybody and trade support on an issue by issue basis to whichever bloc in the Parliament gives up to the Green/InternetMana bloc the most policy gains…

        • Bearded Git 24.1.1.1

          mmm not really a recipe for stable government that.

          • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1.1.1

            I think we may be seeing the start of a shift from having a government that is only a part of parliament to parliament being government. From there we get more democracy.

          • bad12 24.1.1.1.2

            Mmmm your comments tho smacks of the recipe of the stuffed shirt, the last Labour/NZFirst and the current National/ACT Government were of course really really good at stability, delivering nothing less than poverty as the stable diet for far too many…

    • Tracey 24.2

      funny to read someone on the right trusting winstons wors

    • Populuxe1 24.3

      Show me where it says Winston has ruled out working with the Greens?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.4

      James, what Pop said. Winston’s been working with the Greens these last six years. He’s just given Cunliffe the excuse he’ll need to deny Hone/Annette/Laila a Cabinet Club seat.

      They’ve heard of Ministers outside of Cabinet Club too, I expect.

  25. bad12 25

    From the Colon Craig Conservative Conference via the NZHerald, ”We Are Not Loonies” so spoke Conservative’s CEO Christine Rankin in Her opening words,

    Phew, thank the various deity for that, we all really really needed to have that point clarified,

    Christine the CEO and also candidate for the electorate of um? aah?,(ssssh its a secret), an unnamed electorate is pictured on the stage at the conference with Party Leader Colon,(again courtesy of the NZHerald), and, as every picture is either worth a 1000 words, or, tells a story,(yes its multi choice day),

    i deduce from the picture accompanying the Herald story that (a) the look Colon is giving Christine says ”i know what your thinking”, or (b), ”you are in my power”,

    Christine of course will have to forgive both myself and the Heralds photographer as the picture depicts Her remarkably looking like a ‘survivor’ from an early 1980’s NZ mental health institution having been released after having undergone ‘the full treatment’…

    • North 25.1

      Pretty good Bad !

      ” the picture depicts Her remarkably looking like a ‘survivor’ from an early 1980′s NZ mental health institution having been released after having undergone ‘the full treatment’…”

      She is such a survivor. Of WINZ. Or whatever it was called at the time. Recall how she fought like fuck through the courts for readmission. And failed. The judge got it right. There’s no institution in the western world can handle narcissistic entitlement like hers.

  26. Arabs Don’t Hate Jews And Jews Don’t Hate Arabs Or Why You Should Go To Auckland To Demonstrate Against The Genocide In Gaza!

  27. Bearded Git 27

    Oops looks like I may have to change this to:

    Te Tai Tokerau Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote Hone Harawira

    Epsom Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote National-Paul Goldsmith

    East Coast Bays Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote NZF-Winston Peters

    Ohariu Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote Labour-Virginia Andersen

    Watch this space…

  28. felix 28

    What’s Labour doing with hoardings this election?

    All I’ve seen so far are the ones from 2011 with no pictures.

    I hope they’re not seriously considering repeating that particular experiment.

    • BM 28.1

      Moroney broke electoral law in Hamilton by putting up the wrong sized hoardings so now they’re all covered with chunks of white core flute to bring them down to the correct size.

      I struggle to believe some one as experienced as Moroney didn’t know the rules and regs regarding this.

      Shiftiness or incompetence, neither a winner.

    • Tracey 28.2

      Labour hasnt any in epsom. ?. Yet…

      ACT has seymour on one for electorate and unclecousin being tough on crime

      Nats have the liar in chief working for nz inc but nothing gor goldsmith, biographer of don brash

      Internet Mana party vote

    • Alex 28.3

      Labour have no money…and it looks like they will not be putting their leaders photo on the billboards which sort of tells me that they in a self preservation mode, as we see from Davis, Mallard and O’Connor.

  29. Draco T Bastard 29

    And now Rupert Murdoch is demanding that businesses have even more say in our democracies:

    “Business is just as entitled to express its opinion as unions are,” the News Corporation executive chairman told the B20 summit of business leaders in Sydney.

    “The trouble, I find, is usually unions represent hundreds of thousands of voters whereas a business represents just one.”

    He obviously doesn’t like the one person, one vote nature of democracy.

    • greywarbler 29.1

      @ Draco T Bastard 1.04
      Just thinking of the quote you put above.
      Hundreds of thousands of workers getting income at either existence level or declining wages own how much of the wealth which brings power, in the world?
      One hugely wealthy businessman with huge assets, needed media and information infrastructure plus a megabyte full of assets : O- ! -oxo> how is the power balance unfair
      to the wealthy one?

      • Draco T Bastard 29.1.1

        It’s not – it’s unfair to the workers and Murdoch wants to make it even more unfair to them.

    • Tracey 29.2

      how many unions spoke at the B20 Summit

  30. deep throat 30

    roopit seems to have a case of raging megalomania that is in no way ameliorated by senile dementia.

  31. kenny 31

    Labour and the left have a big problem.

    No matter how bad the news is for John Key and the NACTs, the polls and the MSM show that National are way ahead of Labour in the polls and the MSM can’t wait to have a go at Labour and David Cunliffe. This is not surprising when you look at who makes up the main body of the press/TV political scene.

    The following people/organisations are National friendly but more importantly they are ANTI-LEFT:

    NZ Herald
    TV1
    TV3
    Talkback radio
    John Armstrong
    Vernon Small
    John Roughan
    Tracy Watkins
    Claire Trevett
    Fran O’Sullivan
    Matthew Hooton
    Bill Ralston & wife
    Sean Plunket
    Guyon Espiner
    Susan Wood
    Claire Robinson
    Michelle Boag
    Bob Jones
    Audrey Young
    David Farrar
    Cameron Slater
    Jane Clifton
    Jim Mora
    Kerry McIvor
    Bryce Edwards.

    These people/organisations can’t wait to have a go at the Left/David Cunliffe. They may not write positive pieces about the NACTs (lets face it, there aren’t many good things you can say about them) but they do something far worse – they are relentless in their critism of the left. The left have NO CHANCE they say, David Cunliffe should resign, they say, ad nauseum.

    Opposing these forces you have a few who mostly support the left:

    Rod Oram
    Martyn Bradbury
    Chris Trotter (when he is not criticising them as well)
    Jose Pagani (ditto)
    Mike Williams (ditto)

    anyone else?

    How does the left counter this fire power? I don’t know, but unless they do then this election is as good as lost right now. We can only hope that something happens that wakes the electorate out of it’s stupor and looks a little deeper and beyond the main headlines and soundbites.

    I apologise up front for not being able to participate fully in any discussion arising from this comment but I am restricted by other commitments, sorry.

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1

      How does the left counter this fire power?

      We do what the right are so good at – we collectivise. We get all left leaning political parties to have a weekly fee of $1 to $5 each to belong to the party. We then have it so that say 1/5th of that goes to a left journalist organisation that investigates and reports on what’s happening in politics and economics and is distributed through it’s own broadcast media and website. An organisation not dependent upon government because you can be sure that a National government will cut public broadcasting again.

      • Colonial Viper 31.1.1

        +1

      • deep throat 31.1.2

        all the left needs are micro pulse radio stations.they are low powered but work on line of sight.
        one on the top of any Auckland volcano will cover the whole area.
        its not fucking rocket science but the problem seems to be persuading some on the left who should know better to fork out!

        • sockpuppet 31.1.2.1

          How’s life [deleted] – always enjoy your random musings.

          [lprent: No speculating on peoples in real life identities and especially trying to out them, unless they offer it themselves. I get irritated about it and it violates our policies. Banned 4 weeks.]

      • bad12 31.1.3

        Snigger,(only on planet Draco)…

        • Draco T Bastard 31.1.3.1

          It’s because of attitudes like yours that we on the left fail to do anything.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 31.1.3.1.1

            Um, free education and healthcare, public transport, near-universal enfranchisement (with the ugly exception of National’s stripping the right to vote from prison inmates), progressive taxation, power companies, Soviet era communism, no, wait…

            We do plenty.

            • Draco T Bastard 31.1.3.1.1.1

              /facepalm

              And yet the nation has been going slowly more to the right over the last thirty years. The right-wing have been undermining society for that long because of their ownership of the MSM and their ruthless undermining of of state departments.

              We need to stop that and the way to do it is to work together. Not as a single block but communicated out to the rest of the nation through a single channel that is not dependent upon state funds or advertisers.

              • Colonial Viper

                And perhaps not a single channel per se, as that is not resilient enough, but a network of lighter, smaller alternative media channels.

                • Kiwiri

                  Add in digital broadcasting too (secured from GCHQ & other spying/manipulative attempts) – a project that can be led by IMP and KDC?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    They could do that quite comfortably on just $750K of the $3M KDC gifted IMP.

          • bad12 31.1.3.1.2

            Well no Draco, when ‘i’ have an idea ‘i’ usually take steps to see how much traction such an idea has in whatever community the idea is intended to benefit,

            So, your idea will work or fail depending how much work, other than sitting on your posterior going tap tap tap on the computer, you personally put in to promoting it,

            Good luck with trotting such an ‘idea’ round the various political parties i can really,(incoming sarc),see them all falling all over each other in a headlong rush to print out the $50–250 a year levy forms to tax their members,

            i can also see ‘the mass movement’ leaping into action once your ‘idea’ became known to the various members of the various Parties, the mass movement out the door as they all canceled their memberships that is,

            Hey its not all doom and gloom,(more incoming sarc), You could be installed as the editor and as Phillip fancies Himself as some sort of journalist He could be used to babble incoherently in a print version of His usual ravings from here,

            Your editorials, with a few hundred dots inserted here and there could be disguised as incoherence, which would probably be a blessing, because if the Parties of the left adopted your collected ravings as a policy platform, along with having lost all the memberships via your ‘idea’ of an imposed levy, they would lose 99% of their actual voters…

            • Draco T Bastard 31.1.3.1.2.1

              Yep, as I thought – you’re an idiot.

              This whole forum is a place to have such discussions.

              • bad12

                Now how many years have you in particular Draco been sitting here going tap tap tap with your ‘discussions’,

                The expectation that you seem to have that your effete efforts will have the slightest effect is tragically laughable,

                i can well suppose that you think such ‘ideas’ that you periodically dredge from your nether regions will fire and inspire the ‘mass movement’ which only exists in your and other equally tragic minds,

                The fact is Draco that the only mass being moved from your ruminations and lofty expounding of life on Planet Draco is from your poor tortured bowels in the direction of the device of ablutions,(unless you manage to get it into written form first that is)…

            • deep throat 31.1.3.1.2.2

              @bad
              yoo have never had an idea in your life.
              all you have done in life is what you have been told to do.
              you have a desperate need to kiss arse and have your head patted by your betters for being a good little sickophant.

              • bad12

                i would bother to disagree with you but find i cannot be bothered to engage with a sad arsehole that publicly advises people that they should get pissed and assault their spouses…

                • deep throat

                  If you cant recognise irony then you must be pissed.
                  Besides any body who doesn’t capitalise the first person pronoun doesn’t think much of themselves anyway.
                  The inevitable result of too much alcohol.
                  It also induces sycophancy and reliance on others for self esteem.
                  You are the sad cat.
                  have another woody.

                  • bad12

                    Women beaters like what you appear to be deep throat always find an excuse for their behavior when called upon it,

                    i do not drink, haven’t for a number of years so you had better do a quick change in your pretend analysis of me,

                    As above i suggest you F off and engage with someone in the behavior your user-name implies you to be an expert in…

                    • deep throat

                      You just a really sad person.
                      I dont believe a word you say.
                      You dont seem to understand anything about the world except kissing tory arses so they will like you and throw a few crumbs in your direction.
                      You need to look inside yourself and ask yourself some questions about why you feel the way you do.

                    • bad12

                      You obviously need the services of a shrink or a drunk counselor deep throat,(why didn’t you just cut to the chase and put up c**k-sucker as your user-name),

                      i could advise you of the name of some really bad ones, shrinks that is, but, i am sure a women hater/beater like you have made yourself appear to be tonight will sooner or later have one compulsorily applied to your (head)case by the courts so there is little need…

                    • deep throat

                      I see you are talking to yourself now.
                      that is maundering and a sure sign of alcoholism.
                      all you have done here tonight is cast slurs and demean everyone else without making one constructive argument for or against.
                      You are just a creep now fuck off.
                      Its time for my milo now and the sleep of the just.
                      so dont forget now.
                      Thats fuck off!

                    • bad12

                      :roll: have two :roll:

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      You know, bad, your anger issues (and related symptoms such as homophobia) can be addressed and changed for the better. The first step is to acknowledge to yourself that you need help. Check out these places or just try talking to a trusted friend. And, no, I’m not trying to wind you up.

                      http://www.angermanagement.org.nz/

                      http://aucklandtherapy.co.nz/Counselling+issues/Anger+management+counselling.htm

                      http://manalive.org.nz/

                    • bad12

                      TRP, so you have given up your position as the Liar in Chief,(such Lies covered up with glib false claims of mistakes made), in favor of the pretense of knowing whether or not any particular person is angry or not,

                      Such faux claims from the likes of you and the other tragic i have just had the displeasure of having a conversation with are laughable,(which is pretty much applied round here to anything you happen to publish on any given day),

                      Take your pretend analysis TRP,(stranger to the truth), and shove it up your arse, the day i take advice from you will be the day that hell freezes over,

                      Feel free to continue to whine tho, such exchanges are much appreciated round here for the laughter,at you, they provoke…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      It’s ok, bad. Just check the websites out. You don’t have to tell anyone here you’ve done so and they really can help. Kirwin’s one is good too. All the best.

                    • bad12

                      This :roll: is all your comments are worth TRP, a :roll: couple of them to put you on a par with the previous lightweight…

    • karol 31.2

      Kim Hill?

      Native Affairs

    • JanM 31.3

      Andrea Vance?

    • Bearded Git 31.4

      Brilliant list and so correct Kenny. Add to it on the right the Otago Daily Times, notably so-called political correspondent Dene McKenzie. Oh and the Dominion Post.

      And add Brian Gould on the left.

      • kenny 31.4.1

        BG and the rest, unfortunately we need quick answers….

        I forgot Helen Kelly and Robert Reid also.

        • Bearded Git 31.4.1.1

          kenny-we all forgot John Campbell who is sympathetic to the left. I think Cunliffe should arrange go on Campbell’s show if possible. As part of this Cunliffe needs to get the male vote back-this is urgently needed given the polls showing falling male support. (This is not to criticise what he said about violence against women which has been taken out of context and twisted on purpose by the MSM).

          If Cunliffe fishes, he should be seen fishing. If he hunts he should be seen hunting. A policy should be announced for the huntin/fishin /4WD brigade to latch on to-announce this live on Campbell’s show.

          He also needs to be seen at the rugby etc etc.

          We all know Cunliffe is clever but I also think Cunliffe needs to show some animal and come out fighting a bit more. Maybe some tub thumping street corner speeches. Something to break the mold of the devious MSM’s dialogue.

  32. deep throat 32

    just received the first installment of colin craigs bummf in the mailbox.
    more waste of paper.
    felling forests and filling the rivers with chlorine bleach to make crap that people throw away.
    thats progress I suppose.
    He is not a christian.
    He thinks he is Moses.
    Jesus gives people the option.
    Craig is disposed to TELLING people what to do.
    Him and his crew have just confabulated a whole lot of guff and now they think they are christians.
    nooooooooooo.

    • Vicky32 32.1

      “He is not a christian.
      He thinks he is Moses.
      Jesus gives people the option.
      Craig is disposed to TELLING people what to do.”

      Agreed!

  33. Rosie 34

    So much to talk about and respond to but not enough time!

    I do have to say though driving, through Tawa earlier I noticed a very large professionally sign written sign attached to the fence of ITM.

    “David

    You may be sorry for being a man

    BUT WE ARE NOT!!!

    Toot if you’re a man”

    What a freaking :roll: moment that was. I will be writing to the manager of the Tawa store as well as the general manager for ITM New Zealand, and educate them on the meaning of David Cunliffe’s FULL statement at the Women’s Refuge conference and let them just how much that meant to me as a woman.

    I wish there was some way I could get a photo of it up on TS. It would be fantastic if we could get some men speaking with ITM as well.

    We don’t need idiotic crap like this in Ohariu, this is a seat Labour has to take from Dunne!

    • karol 34.1

      Thanks Rosie, it’s already been picked up (in nasty and negative ways)

      by the NZ Herald. Also by KB and WO.

      • Rosie 34.1.1

        Oh crap. Thanks karol. Look’s like a counter campaign is needed. I won’t visit Kiwiblog or fail oil, I can only imagine what has been said.

        On the plus side, in the hour that we were in close proximity to that area only one driver tooted their horn, but then again I see it was picked up by the herald on 14th July so maybe the locals are over their tooting.

        • Tracey 34.1.1.1

          it seems its better to stand for nothing like dunne than apologise for some of the things done in the name of boys being boys

      • greywarbler 34.1.2

        @ karol 4.15
        I see the words the necklace is far from charming on The Hairy site? What’s that? Is it left over from the last image that was there? Anybody explain? And that looks like a professionally painted sign. Definitely not the sort or size that I attempt at home.

        • freedom 34.1.2.1

          It is sign writing by a skilled hand. No doubt about that. (An evaporating skill set)
          There is an appropriate image lower down the page using the tag, so most likely a layout oversight from whenever the page was updated to include the toot image.

          Being purposefully left to promote ‘jewellery is not manly’?
          An unlikely stretch,
          I hope :???:

  34. deep throat 35

    well most tory voters have had the snip and they are just capons.
    they are not men.
    just frightened little boys fixated on toys and and any consumer goods that make them look like big shots.

  35. Harry Holland 36

    I see the ABC’s are now reported as being pissed off with DC taking a holiday. Yeah, don’t you hate that work/life balance thing… or maybe public shows of disloyalty are what we should really hate. If these reports are true then Phil Goff, David Shearer and Anette King seem to be determined to screw things up for Labour.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10287781/Skiing-holiday-puts-Cunliffe-on-slippery-slope

  36. Lorraine 37

    The behaviour biases of the media are effecting the election being fair. The media are constantly branding political parties in one way or other except for National. Their obsession with National and the way they are framing questions to other parties is biased. They attack like a pack of rabid dogs and twist what others say constantly interrupting them with incorrect interpretations of what has been said.
    How many times I am left wanting to say to the interviewer, “Shut up and let the person you are interviewing speak. Listen to what they are saying and stop putting your own spin on it.”
    This is not journalism it is some get you game imported from overseas. I can make up my own mind about what the politician says, I don’t need you to put your own twist on it. Even panel members on Q+A like the Horton guy who is putting a negative quip about Cunliffe and the Greens or whatever in every answer he makes. Get him off. I want intelligent commentary from well informed unbiased people. Maybe the tv current affairs shows are so short of panel members they have to be constantly including people who are ex Act members or ultra conservative National members.
    I’m thinking the whole political decision making may be better off without all this media contamination. Well certainly what is being dished up on TV and the papers.

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