I do hope that this pantomime of the two johns keeps on going. They are the joke that just keeps n on giving. I just need to listen to either of them with their rehearsed patter to start my day off with a really good laugh.They are hilarious.Surely they can’t POSSIBLY BELIEVE that the people of NZ are actually BELIEVING anything that comes out of their mouths.Smirk away key,you just look like an uneducated simpleton and your sidekick just looks like a sad little man.
Surely they can’t POSSIBLY BELIEVE that the people of NZ are actually BELIEVING anything that comes out of their mouths.
The crucial point is that the mayoral electoral expense thing is not fatal. (Unless of course Key is covering up for the possibility of him being involved with Dotcom as well … same electorate after all.)
What is fatal is that they are lying about it. If you cannot trust a person in a little matter you cannot trust them in larger ones. Sure we all spin, and creatively manipulate the truth in order to present the best possible face on matters … but there is a line.
Bald lies are over the line. Our PM is now a proven liar and NOTHING he now says has credibility. This is the fatal problem.
Spot on Red. Even the most ardent silver-spoon tory knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is utterly inconceivable that Key hasn’t read the report. They know with absolute certainty that he’s lying.
It’s BLIAR all over again. Two esteemed right-wing leaders caught red-handed and refusing to budge.
The difference this time is that they genuinely thought he was different. The golden messiah, blessed by God with money and a refreshing honesty. The anti-politician money-trader from heaven who would pave our driveways with gold.
Now a spoiled, stubborn brat, insisting to a stunned public that the dog ate his homework.
Totally agree Red. “Forgetting” the chopper ride tipped the balance on this one. I don’t expect MPs to be flawless, but I do expect them to be honest about their mistakes. Maybe it would help if fellow MPs, bloggers, the media and Joe Public were gracious enough to let them, instead of dragging up decade-old errors which, if dealt with properly in the past, need to be left there.
You can only leave their actions in the past if the person in question has changed their behaviour.
If justice is served people would leave them alone.
If they continue to live in denial then we have to keep them honest.
Agreed, Banks currently faces the music of his own making, and I wish he’d just front up. My qualifier was, that IF is stuff dealt with properly in the past, it needs to be left there. We don’t always see that happen, which is unfortunate. A lot of good people would find it difficult to get into politics cos whole research departments are set up to drag through their past.
I recently heard from someone who had travelled through Spain that there was a certain tension in the air – a sense of deep discontent.
And this morning I just read that more than 25% of the entire population of Catalonia took to the streets to demand independence. I’d call that major, no?
There has been an ever present movement for independence from Spain in Catalonia. The difference now is the horrific mismanagement of the economy and financial crisis coming out of Madrid. We’re used to the sight of dictatorships in the developing world turning out soldiers to keep civil unrest under control. Chances are in the next year or three, the western world is going to find that it is still developing after all.
Another reason why Barca V Real Madrid matches are so tetchy (besides Madrid’s abrasive manager) as Real madrid represent royalty and playing the catalan giants is seen as freedom V being ruled over by many catalonians.
The Declaration of Equality
Target: 50000
Number of people who have signed: 17897 http://www.nzcpr.com/petition_EqualRights.php
We, New Zealanders, having founded our society in the equality of comradeship, and living here at home in the land we have made, utterly oppose any laws which establish or promote racial distinction or division.
There shall be one law for all:
We refuse to accept any reference to the Treaty of Waitangi or its principles in any constitutional document.
We require that such references be removed from all existing legislation.
We require that race-based Parliamentary seats be abolished.
We require that race-based representation on local bodies be abolished.
We require that the Waitangi Tribunal, which has outlived any usefulness it may have had, be abolished.
And we pledge ourselves to oppose and resist all those of whatever rank or degree who, whether by force or the devious processes of the law, attempt to impose the fetters of racial inequality on the free citizens of New Zealand.
The Declaration
The Government’s constitutional review provides an opportunity to usher in a new era of democracy for New Zealand based on equality under the law.
Help us create a movement for change by signing the DECLARATION OF EQUALITY and calling on others to do the same. Our initial target is 20,000 signatures, but we hope to build to 50,000, 100,000 and more. We will deliver the Declaration to Government Ministers in September next year to coincide with the report back from the Maori Party’s Constitutional Advisory Panel. We will keep you informed of progress…
Don’t know about your detail there griff but with you on the equality thing re increasing maori governance etc. Many early New Zealand settlers escaped birthright privilege and oppression in their homelands. They had experienced centuries of oppression and inequality and wanted to create a place where those evil strictures were absent.
Unfortunately those evil strictures are returning. In this mornings paper there was an article about one of the first new buildings being proposed in the Chch CBD. It requires consent from three commissioners – one from Cera, one from the Council and one from Ngai Tahu. What is the one from Ngai Tahu doing there? Are we subject to governance by unelected, race-based birthright privileged bastards as we were in our past? If so then they can get fucked. This system has no place in NZ.
If the treaty provides for these things then the treaty is an ass.
I understood that was what the Maori version of the ToW says. That the iwi chiefs never ceded any of their sovereignty over their lands, peoples and treasures. No if’s no buts.
For Nga Tahu I understood that is pretty much the whole South Is.
After all this is why no NZ govt will contemplate allowing a case to go to any International Court of any sort … because they know that the NZ Crown be shown to have no written legitimacy would lose the case.
I can work with an equal partnership between Māori and the Crown but that would need to be real not the imagined equality we have now. Until then the country is doomed because the foundations are crooked and built on inequality.
“I can work with an equal partnership between Māori and the Crown ”
Marty, I think most people understand how that comes about under the Treaty etc, and that is all well and good – under the cocoon of the Treaty with all its warts and limitations.
But what you imply in the quoted bit above is that you would expect all NZers to be subject to that joint partnership. This is exactly in line with my main point – New Zealanders are then subject to the authority of an unelected, race-based (or treaty-based, take your pick) birthright privilege. Do you not see that this strikes at the very heart of representative democracy? Do you understand how and why this system of democracy has come about and what it tried to escape and then achieve? If so, how does this fit inside your views? And, where it doesn’t fit inside your views, how would you attend to the distortions and their effects?
It’s a funny thing vto but the limitations of the Treaty all disadvantage Māori, not the other way round.
If some people move to a country and then impose their worldview on the people living there and they do it all because they are trying to create utopia or a better life for their children – they are wrong and illicit no matter how much they pray to their god.
When the people displaced, as described above, then assert their right to live their lives based on their beliefs and values, the people who have gained advantage from the imposed system argue that the assertion of those rights is detrimental to the established society. What they mean is that it affects, or more rightly potentially affects, their advantage.
I understand that and it makes sense within the circumstances of migration and colonisation. However, it doesn;t make sense in a bigger view, which is what I refer to – hence my point about representative democracy and its aims and settings. Your belief, I believe, is too small for today’s world and you are pushing that belief out into areas that it can’t operate in. Perhaps your belief needs expanding to accomodate other factors present in the human condition.
Yes I think vto and I agree that the military, economic and political dominance of the colonial settlers worked very much against the interests of the real owners of this country. No need to re-litigate all of that yet again right now.
What vto and I are thinking about is the future. You are supporting the idea of two equal sovereign entities in this country working in partnership. What I’m asking is for some details. Especially for how to proceed when the two parties do not agree.
For instance one sovereign right now thinks it can sell power stations and their rights to use water. The other sovereign thinks that it is the sole owner of those water rights. Spot the problem?
Would it not just be easier to have only one sovereign entity like every other nation on earth? And logically is that not the iwi’s?
So your suggestion is sort out the current problems first.. That makes some sense. But the problem in going down this path is that in putting things equal, or right under the Treaty, it is beginning to create very large issues that will be problems when it comes to that future. For example, in putting things right under the treaty a co-governance approach is developing and that co-governance, by an unelected group, strikes right at the heart of the way the future should be developed i.e. equality for all.
The way in which the wrongs of the past are being attended to is creating wrongs for the future.
edit: oops, meant to be in reply to 11.14 comment below
But the problem in going down this path is that in putting things equal, or right under the Treaty, it is beginning to create very large issues that will be problems when it comes to that future.
It’s not beginning to create issues. The issues have been there all along. It’s just that Pakeha now have to come to grips with those issues. Maori have been carrying more than their fair share for the last century and a half.
For example, in putting things right under the treaty a co-governance approach is developing and that co-governance, by an unelected group, strikes right at the heart of the way the future should be developed i.e. equality for all.
Iwi are not unelected, please stop saying that. They might not be elected by you, but they are elected and have legitmate forms of governance.
I cannot see how we can have equality for all if Maori are expected to give up their sovereignty.
To get what you want we would have to turn NZ from being a single state to being many states and those states would be separated both through geography and race. NZ is far too small and interconnected to be able to do that.
Using knowledge of the past can help us with current and future issues. In fact i’ve just finished an essay on that topic but that was relating to reducing reoffending rates of Māori through re-enculturalisation.
Both of you are trying to run before we walk. Until we get equality we will have to fight the battles within the system and often those battle align with other inequalities.
Our imposed system chooses to believe it can have only one sovereign but we could change that really easily. Until then we get on with the job of challenging each and every inequality we come across. That is forward looking and that is working from what we have got not a hypothetic what if.
Ngai Tahu sold land in the 1800s, under British law.
The idea that Ngai Tahu own the South Island is a Pakeha idea.
Kai Tahu aren’t the only iwi in the South Island. Other iwi exist within the area sometimes considered as Kai Tahu’s.
Edit: that was in response to RedLogix,
“I understood that was what the Maori version of the ToW says. That the iwi chiefs never ceded any of their sovereignty over their lands, peoples and treasures. No if’s no buts.
For Nga Tahu I understood that is pretty much the whole South Is.
After all this is why no NZ govt will contemplate allowing a case to go to any International Court of any sort … because they know that the NZ Crown be shown to have no written legitimacy would lose the case.”
Three sentences there marty. Barren empty sentences. Nothing. But then again, you never outline reasons for any of your strange positions, you just shout an empty pithy slogan and attach some kiddy abuse.
Let me tell what this country does not need and that is race-based, unelected, birthright privilege.
We had it before and maori didn’t like it, yet here they are acting to restore it again. It is your views that are unwelcome in New Zealand marty. They have been proven unsustainable and oppressionary in the past. Why would you think that you are somehow different this time?
Yeah, we need different levels of citizenship in NZ. Where your rights are decided by whats in your blood and nothing else. We should have a sexy name for it though – how does apartheid sound?
“Many early New Zealand settlers escaped birthright privilege and oppression in their homelands. They had experienced centuries of oppression and inequality and wanted to create a place where those evil strictures were absent.”
A somewhat rosey view of colonials. The idea that the oppressed want to go somewhere else to live a better life free from oppression is contradicted by the reality once they get where they’re going, which is (apart from being tricked back into worse conditions for some) that they themselves became the oppressors. A common problem, of misunderstanding basic human motivations. For many people it’s not that they hate power, it’s just that they don’t have any. Wanting the gains of civilised society without taking the risks necessary to get them locates people within a specific psychological sphere. Early settlers may not have been informed enough to realise it, but failing to label reality doesn’t make reality any less true.
If you want to free people of oppression, I would have thought you would start with the greatest threat, which isn’t anything to do with Maori issues. At least you can understand the outrage that indigenous people feel.
Maori, circa 1840: I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
VTO, 2012: “I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
And the millions of oppressed Chinese huddling under oppressive Indian colonial rule in “New Beijing” (aka New Zealand) … grumbling about how this place is “getting stinkier every day”.
Not a bad assessment uturn. You’re right in that the colonial period is somewhat more complex. In a broad sense however, the point made stands – unelected, race-based birthright privilege has no place in New Zealand.
And this point of yours sums it up perfectly…
“Maori, circa 1840: I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
VTO, 2012: “I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!””
Interesting thread. I just started reading Ask the Mountain chronicling the Taranaki land wars & Parihaka. I’m only a chapter in but I find it interesting that in the years leading up to the conflict the Maori on all accounts seem to have been consistently playing by Colonial rules up until the colonials themselves began the descent to conflict.
We converted them to christianity and then burnt their churches and bibles against everything we’d just taught them was holy. We barred them from New Plymouth unless they pledged allegiance to Queen Victoria and forsake their own culture, so they tolled the roads around the coast.
From the very outset Maori have shown that they can best colonialism at it’s own games. We have set the rules through crown law and capitalist structures, yet now we thumb our nose at a people who, through a system imposed, have a legal right to challenge government and are.
Change our capitalist structures is a better answer, because the Maori have shown time and time again that they are happy to work within the system. And that system is ,last time I checked, a colony of the Monarch who is an unelected, race-based birthright privilege.
The idea that the oppressed want to go somewhere else to live a better life free from oppression is contradicted by the reality once they get where they’re going, which is (apart from being tricked back into worse conditions for some) that they themselves became the oppressors. A common problem, of misunderstanding basic human motivations.
Although that is what happened I also think it was more a case of them putting in place structures that they were familiar with.
If you want to free people of oppression, I would have thought you would start with the greatest threat, which isn’t anything to do with Maori issues.
And what is, in your opinion, this greatest threat?
VTO, Ngai Tahu do run their society by elections. And you are not subject to governance by Kai Tahu. You are subject to governance by authorities who are expected to work alongside local iwi, as laid out by those authorities. The Crown signed the treaty remember. Would you like to undo the Crown’s authority to do that?
“It requires consent from three commissioners – one from Cera, one from the Council and one from Ngai Tahu. What is the one from Ngai Tahu doing there?”
Why don’t you do some actual research and come back and tell us why, specifically? There is an answer, but you’re avoiding that so that you can just play the race card.
CERA, CCC, Ngai Tahu…. that you consider Ngai Tahu to be the one that is undermining your sovereignty speaks volumes.
That’s an interesting question Red. I will have to think about it. My first thoughts are that there are different kinds of sovereignty. There’s an obvious legal one to do with the crown and the queen, but I have other allegiances as well.
I think this is a very important conversation to be having.
weka, I actually don’t know the answer as to why Ngai Tahu are there, perhaps you could explain. All I know is that they are making governing decisions on the rebuilding of Chch.
As for the rest of the hair-splitting, well the wig remains intact in spite of it. You claim they have elections and do not exercise authority over others, but that is clearly not the case. They do exercise authority over others through this ‘working alongside’. How can you not see that? Why are so many people turning a blind eye to these realities?
vto, if I lived in Chch I would certainly want to understand why Ngai Tahu is involved in that way, and I think it works better if you treat the question as non-rhetorical. I think it is up to you to find that out though, given the issue is yours (I don’t even know what building you are talking about, this is not my issue). I think if you engaged with that finding out, and with Ngai Tahu in an open way, you might find that interesting. Why not phone them up, or go visit them, and ask?
At the most superficial level Ngai Tahu are involved in the rebuild because the local authorities recognise them as treaty partners. What that means in legal, ethical, social terms I don’t know, but I think the process of finding out is a crucial one for pakeha at this time. That we don’t know is to our discredit.
I’m not hairsplitting. I’m teasing out detail that enables us to understand and think in more complex ways about a very complex situation. There are all sorts of people who have influence in the Chch rebuild, lots of them most definitely not elected. The crux of this is about how we share power, and who gets power and who doesn’t. Kai Tahu are one of the big players, and legitimately IMO. This is their land after all.
I will say this, Kai Tahu are on the ascendant. They are becoming a force to be reckoned with. They are getting very good at playing pakeha at their own game, as well as solidifying their own culture. Best that we get on board with that, and engage with them as partners. They’re not going away. Even if the treaty was abolished, Ngai Tahu would still wield influence and power. If you are concerned about Kai Tahu influence then start supporting the parts of the iwi that are allied with your values system, in the same way that you might with pakeha society.
“They do exercise authority over others through this ‘working alongside’. How can you not see that? Why are so many people turning a blind eye to these realities?”
Please give me some examples of how Ngai Tahu has authority. I’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
In general, it’s not that I don’t see Ngai Tahu’s influence. It’s that I see it and think it is legitimate. (this doesn’t mean I agree with everything they do btw, but then I don’t agree with everything that councils or central govt do either).
“At the most superficial level Ngai Tahu are involved in the rebuild because the local authorities recognise them as treaty partners. ”
It’s likely that there are politics involved that I am largely unaware of. I think this is another case of Pakeha wanting to run society in a certain way and then getting upset when Maori get on board with that. I’m sure that Ngai Tahu are quite capable of playing the power game at that level as anyone else, and there may be things to be concerned about. But the thing that jumps out at me, again and again, is that Pakeha attempt to engage in debate about this without knowing even the basics of what is going on. We have to educate ourselves and the only way to do that is to learn from Maori. It’s up to us though.
weka, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say there. Fyi, interests take me to direct dealings with Ngai Tahu. I have experience with this authority thing and with being subject to an unelected cabal. I suggest that two separate things are being confused again – firstly, the Treaty with all its warts etc and honouring that; and secondly, the settings required for people to live contendly in these lands in the future. Those two things are entirely different but there is an assumption that one equals the other.
I am also well aware of their current ascendancy, and that is fine. Rather locals than some foreign entity who doesn’t give a hoot.
All I can do is repeat the original point which is that being subject to an unelected authority of any sort is inherently wrong and inconsistent with representative democracy. It will lead to failure. It ignores the reasons for that democracy developing and what it was trying to escape. Ignores it. Bit like Key sticking his head in the prophylactic and pretending it doesn’t exist.
The fact that this unelected authority is also based on race and birthright simply makes that situation worse again.
It is about the future. The Treaty has clear limits in what it can offer to that future.
All I can do is repeat the original point which is that being subject to an unelected authority of any sort is inherently wrong and inconsistent with representative democracy. It will lead to failure. It ignores the reasons for that democracy developing and what it was trying to escape. Ignores it.
I don’t consider Ngai Tahu to be an undemocratic body. They are treaty partners, and are operating within the dominant culture’s values that you espouse. I think you just don’t like sharing power. I also think that there is probably little useful discussion to be had if you view NT as an ‘unelected cabal’, when patently they hold elections, and they’re not a secret political faction. That you view them as that will always limit your capacity to move into a positive future with them.
btw, Maori (and many other cultures in the world) managed themselves successfully without democracy. Let us at least be honest that when you talk about the reasons for democracy and what it was trying to escape, you are talking about a specific set of cultures at a specific time in history, not a universality for all humans.
Weka, in the context I am talking about, namely being subject to another authority, it is absolutely not electable. Non-members of Ngai Tahu do not get to vote so there is no accountability and no democracy. Your suggestion is like suggesting that peerage in the House of Lords is democratic. It’s nothing of the sort. I think that, like many others, the straws are being clutched at to decipher support for a predetermined position.
And I also understand that many most cultures have managed quite well without democracy. But that is the framework we currently sit under. If we want to asssess another framework then that is another separate question.
Our current framework includes Te Tiriti. As such it includes the system we inherited from the British and it includes the systems we inherited from te ao Maori. You seem to want to remove only one side.
If we honour the treaty, then Maori are entitled to govern themselves alongside the Crown. If that had happened in the 1800s I don’t know what our society would look like today (interesting thought experiment). But instead we have a system that has evolved that tries to redress some of the wrongs, including the fact that NT have been denied access to their resources for all that time. I disagree with RL that the redress is about handing back all resources and letting NT govern. I think it’s about sharing equitably.
One way of doing that (instead of giving back stolen land) is for Ngai Tahu to be involved at levels where decisions are made about management of collective resources. In terms of Chch, you have the CCC and Ngai Tahu (let’s leave CERA out of it for now). Residents of Chch elect CCC, members of Te Runanga o Ngai Tahu elect their representatives. They then work in partnership. Maori get two votes I guess, but given how the odds have been stacked against them, and still are, I personally don’t have a problem with that. We’re not talking about equal slices of the pie, we’re talking about who needs nutrients and who is overfed. It’s about what is fair, and what is necessary.
At some point in the future, that will no doubt change. Maybe we end up with truly equal partnership. But in the meantime, what’s the problem?
As far as I can tell, you just want the treaty to be gone. This means that you don’t believe that Maori and non- Maori should be in partnership, and that means that Maori will be expected to assimilate into the dominant culture (they can keep their cultural pretties, but they are not allowed power).
I don’t think the House of Lords comparison is valid. You’re just trying to point out that whakapapa is exclusive*. But what you are missing is that (a) we have two, valid systems side by side, and (b) there are useful things in terms of governance about the tribal system that we would lose if it was rendered invalid.
*and it is only exclusive if you don’t belong to a tribal society that shares resources in that way.
I’m curious, what are your thoughts about the Tuhoe settlement?
Sorry weka, aint got much time for a decent answer (you weren’t the weka caught running off with one of my mates chook eggs the other day per chance?)
The model you outline imo is not sustainable. The reason is the very first one outlined. It is unelected (by the majority of people on one side only). It is based on birthright and race. These things cause resentment. Resentment leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred and then it is all over.
Look, I understand completely the Treaty concepts etc and how it foresaw partnership in the maori version etc etc. That has all been well and truly debated etc. And that is what is being attended to now – those rights and wrongs.
But my view stems from a base concpt of fairness and equality. Such a system as you propose fails thoses tests and will not stand the test of time, imo. It sets up divisions within society. It sets up resentment. It means some are in a position to lord it over others who have no control over the lorders. It has a faulty foundation. History has generally shown this to be the case and I cannot understand why so many are hell bent on going down the same pathway again.
There are surely problems in meshing the Treaty with equality but that is no reason to give in. There will be a solution. Time will probably the provider of that solution.
“you weren’t the weka caught running off with one of my mates chook eggs the other day per chance?”
I couldn’t possibly say ;-p
I disagree about the resentment and the anger. We watched that when the first settlements were being negotiated and settled. IMO most of that shifted over time, largely due to Pakeha becoming more informed about what the actual issues are. So, we already know that we can not only survive resentment and anger but that we can move on to something more constructive.
Secondly, much of the resentment and anger that people feel is misplaced IMO. It comes from people who are increasingly disenfranchised from their own culture. And it gets misdirected and fed by the MSM and evil bastards like Ansell using the tools of the mainstream to bash Maori. Both those things (loss of value within one’s own culture, and the acceptance of targeting Maori unfairly and unjustly) are things that we are going to have to resist and change anyway.
The other thing to consider is that within the next couple of generations, Pakeha will be outnumbered by non-Pakeha, Polynesians in particular (Maori, Pacifica). What do you think will happen to their anger at that point if we spend the next 50 years trying to subsume them into the dominant culture?
“But my view stems from a base concpt of fairness and equality”
I disagree. I think you have some abstract ideas about those things from within your own cultural ideas, but they don’t work in the world we live in because they don’t extend to Maori. I might be wrong, so please do tell me how you see the place of Maori in NZ in the future if things were to go the way you suggest (in a later conversation if you don’t get back to it today).
Which is my assertion too. Logically Nga Tahu are the owners and sovereign of the entire South Is and should be making ALL the decisions about it. Why should they be sharing their property and authority with anyone?
Either it is their land or it is not? Or are we talking about something less cut and dried? ‘Owned’ and ‘not owned’ at the same time?
answer straight – are you being ironic or sarcastic or do you believe it? The reason I ask is that this view of yours seems different from your previous views that I have read and I’ve been treating the repeated sentence that way so far.
No I’ve changed my mind. Like it or not the ToW is quite clear, that the iwi chief’s never ceded tino rangatiratanga. This is reinforced by the fact that the Maori version of the Treaty takes precedence. All this you know because you have been telling us this for years.
So like it or not we now have to take this position to its proper conclusion and determine that the iwi chiefs are indeed the proper owners and sovereigns in this land.
A conclusion that of course has more than a few logical consequences. Ones that are worth exploring I would have thought.
I’m interested in your thoughts on the way forward.
One area that is interesting is that traditionally during times of conflict Māori would work together under iwi or waka groupings and within those groupings the mana of each rangatira was maintained. That same principle could build a pan-Māori grouping focused on the Māori Nation. It is a tough issue for Māoridom in some ways – ensuring mana is maintained and strengthened for all.
Well one way forward is to abolish the illegitimate Crown entity, disestablish New Zealand as a country and return to each iwi it’s legitimate territory that can be governed by the chiefs as their own nation. This is the solution supported by a simple and direct reading to the Treaty, made worse because the white settler government in their hubris and rush to exploit the country, failed to do their paperwork properly … and never established a written Constitution to cover their arses.
By tradition Maori have been proven to be generous hosts so I’m assuming that if any non-Maori are happy to pay a proper rent then they will be welcome to stay.
And if you think I’m being silly here, then what for example is the Maori view on Tuhoe having regained effective sovereignty over their land? I have to guess that most other iwi will unwilling to settle for less themselves?
But I’m guessing that there would be some practical difficulties with such an arrangement. Certainly I’d not be personally offering to explain the new regime to Federated Farmers.
Any alternate path is going to involve an ongoing tension between two competing/parallel sovereigns with two differing world views. Either that is a process that slowly converges over time … or not.
I don’t believe that Pakeha have to give away their sovereignty. Am happy to look at what the Crown is and whether it’s still useful. And the idea of devolving to regional autonomy appeals, we should be doing this anyway with the coming of peak oil and CC.
“This is their land after all.” Which is my assertion too. Logically Nga Tahu are the owners and sovereign of the entire South Is and should be making ALL the decisions about it. Why should they be sharing their property and authority with anyone? Either it is their land or it is not? Or are we talking about something less cut and dried? ‘Owned’ and ‘notowned’ at the same time?
It’s the latter IMO. Kai Tahu sold some land. Some was stolen. Some falls inbetween. The British forced Maori into a form of land ownership that meant that individuals could sell land, instead of that being an iwi/hapu decision. Other iwi existed here as well as Kai Tahu. Lots of complexities.
Afaik Kai Tahu like other Maori were pragmatic, they could see that the British weren’t going to go away. They could see there were benefits to having the British here. And benefits to having a treaty.
When I said the land is theirs, I meant they belong to the land and have that historical relationship around things like mana whenua, ahi kaa, kaitiaki. I didn’t mean they are the legal owners under Pakeha law, although obviously they do own some land in that sense. The big difficulty in these conversations is the word ‘own’.
To what extent the Ngai Tahu settlement was fair and reasonable, I don’t know. I know that they lost land in the 1800s that was rightfully theirs to live on, manage, be a part of, and that has never really been addressed. I also think they made very smart decisions around the settlement in terms of accessing resources within the Pakeha world that would allow them to move on. I don’t consider the settlement to be an end point, it’s a starting point.
So, “Either it is their land or it is not? ” is the wrong question.
VTO – The questions you ask are too difficult for most to wrap their head around, it simply implies regardless of which “ethnicity” people identify with, they are being ruled over, and have little to no control or say in it!
WTF is “The Crown” anyway – Good luck finding the way to the bottom of that lie.
We are all being ruled over by entities which are used to keep control of power over resources, whatever those resources might be.
Democracy does not exist, we see evidence of it on a daily basis.
Why not just add all religions/political ideals in, you want equality after all.
The heading should be “Anarchy in NZ”, sign the petition and say “Get F*cked too every one elses opinion.”
Out of curiosity, how could the treaty be made null and void? Is there international law that protects it? National law? I’m guessing that trying to eliminate the treaty would be extremely difficult.
Out of curiosity, how could the treaty be made null and void?
By discussion and writing of a constitution that replaced Te Tiriti. Such a constitution would have to have the removal of multiple sovereignties as it’s absolute minimum with sovereignty then being held by the people of NZ/Aotearoa rather than “the Crown” or other artificial entity.
Griff, I’ll believe that you bigots really believe in one law for all when you start pushing for Banks to be kicked out of Parliament. Until then, if you don’t like living in a country which has Te Tiriti as its founding document and basis of legitimacy, feel free to leave. The society that you want is one of privilege, not comradeship.
Kate Sheppard fought for New Zealand women’s political and economic independence and thanks to her more than five generations of women have now been able to influence decision-making through their vote.
There are things that we have achieved that I think would make her smile, like Marriage property laws, Equal Pay laws, the election of the first woman, Elizabeth McCoombs to Parliament and many more including Mabel Howard as the first female cabinet minister, and our female Prime Ministers Jenny Shipley and Helen Clark.
But there are some things that I think would make her frown. What would she think about female accountants being paid 30% less on average than their male counterparts in 2012? Or about the National Council of Women, which she founded, supporting the removal of working women’s rights in the first 90 days of employment? What would she think about the fact just 6% of private company boards having female directors; or that just 32.5% of our House of Representatives are female, when women make up 51% of the population?
Governor Lord Glasgow signed a new Electoral Act into law, making New Zealand the first self-governing country in the world to grant all women the right to vote in parliamentary elections. more…
This was followed by legislation in 1919 enabling women to stand for Parliament. Elizabeth McCombs was the first woman elected as a member of Parliament in 1933.
Also, has anyone pointed out that there’s more to fighting for “equality” than bashing the Treaty?
Your post makes no mention of actual equality issues: No mention of equal pay for women, or equal right for ALL parents regardless of work status, or equal rights for LGBT citizens.
Sounds to me like your petition is all about abdicating treaty responsibilities and absolutely nothing about equality.
Ben. Presumably your reply is to Griff. Use the ‘reply’ button beneath his post or use his name so there is no confusion. I agree with your comment by the way.
Exactly Ben. That petition and their review is all about removing any remaining limits to rich white privilege. At a point in history when Maori might be gracious enough to save state assets for all of us, I am deeply disturbed that some here, on a “left” which has spectacularly failed to do this, are turning against Te Tiriti. When Brownlee removes democracy from Canterbury and “lefties” see Ngai Tahu as the problem, something is very, very wrong.
So key is doing gagagags as well as the fake hui and it’s all for the court case to come.
“Prime Minister John Key says a decision by some Tainui iwi to boycott the Government’s water consultation hui strengthens the Government’s legal position should the matter end up in court.”
“On his way into caucus at Parliament this morning he was asked about the unity around the water issue at the national hui last week called by King Tuheitia.
He suggested that from the media reports he had seen there wasn’t unity.
“There are kind of more positions than Lady Gaga’s got outfits.”
Deliberate and it will fail, as I have said on my post
His deliberate ignorance is not an advantage it is a weakness and the more he speaks, the more that weakness is revealed. He thinks he is smarter than he really is – but he isn’t.
“On behalf of the 1200 who attended the hui called by the King last week to discuss Maori water rights and voted unanimously to ask the government to put a halt to its asset sales programme, and on behalf of the tens of thousands of Maori who have already expressed their opposition to the government’s asset sales programme, I wish to thank the people of Tainui for their refusal to buy into National’s ‘consultation’ proposals” said MANA leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira.
…
“Yesterday the Prime Minister stated his government’s position” said Harawira. “They will not consult with Maori; they are simply calling hui so that when this case goes to court they can say they ‘acted in good faith’”.
“Furthermore, government is only meeting with those iwi leaders whose people hold mana whenua across those waterways critical to the government’s asset sales programme. Tainui’s response has been clear and admirable – no consultation, no deal – a position MANA wholeheartedly supports”.
“The clear challenge now lays with those iwi leaders from Tuwharetoa and Te Arawa”.
It made my day, Ianmac, when I read it a few hours ago, but did not have time then to provide a link here. So thanks for doing so, and highly recommend it to others here.
So the Government’s proposed “Public Protection Orders” legislation has finally been rolled out. In a nutshell, it will permit prison authorities to go to the High Court and seek an order that because “there is a very high risk of imminent serious sexual or violent offending by the respondent”, an individual should be detained indefinately in accommodation on prison grounds.
This is targeting sexual offenders, in response to some over-heated lynch-mob mentality. But, the legislation doesn’t seem to be limited to the nastiest of sexual offenders, but to anyone deemed “dangerous” and who might re-offend, even though the evidence shows it’s impossible to predict exactly who will re-offend.
First of all, the proposed legislation won’t just target “dangerous prisoners” who are soon to be released from prison. Under clause 7(1)(b)(i), it also will apply to a “person [who] is subject to an extended supervision order andis, or has been, subject to a condition of full-time accompaniment and monitoring”. That is, individuals who presently are out in the community under a watchful eye can get yanked back behind prison walls because they are considered too dangerous to be out there in public … even though they’ve actually been living in the community without doing any harm (otherwise they’d already be back in jail for doing so).
I’ve long been very leery of this lynch-mob mentality around sex offenders. Sure few will waste much in the way of sympathy for them.
But somehow their crimes are being magnified beyond all rationality .. they’ve become the new ‘devil incarnates’ in a secular world otherwise bereft of demons.
Purpose ?, it’s a reflection of divorce from society because of fear, lock your doors etc.
If their is a purpose it can only be the criminals’, which is why there is fear.
And that is not justice.
Its extremely suspicious. One step away from preventative incarceration for ‘pre-crime’. Very Judge Dredd / AD 2000 / Minority Report.
In the US indefinite detention without trial or charge is now a distinct legal possibility, as long as you are deemed to pose some kind of threat to national security. Which does not have to be defined or justified publically – due to the threat to national security doing so may entail. See how it works.
More specifically in the NZ case, there is no mention of additional counselling, resources or support for these sex offenders. Just chuck them back in prison if you decide you don’t like the looks of them. It’s atrocious.
According to the Canadian Government the final cost of Prince Charles and Camilla’s (The Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II) three-day visit to Canada in May was NZD 1.25 million, not including security. The Canadian Royal Mounted Police will not reveal the total security expenditure as (Request # A-2012-03344) is only disclosed in part. Security is about 1.5 times of taxpayers funding for motorcades, hotel expenses and meals etc for the entourage and the royal toadies. So the cost of Prince Charles and his wife’s pompous six day visit to New Zealand in November will be about $3.75 million, that is 1 and a quarter million cups of tea with John Banks, 5 and a half million tampon fantasies Charles can have about Camilla, 195 hip replacements or 94 (total hospital and surgeon costs) of Bypass Surgery. The list goes on. And to think in a country like ours, 270,000 deprived New Zealand children.
Nothing from Labour about the welfare legislation.
However, shad/cab* social development spokesperson, Jacinda Ardern described National’s “reforms” as announced on Monday, as an overstatement.
Apparently Bennett has been making a big fuss about what turns out to be not much at all. Nothing “bashing” about them apparently. Not unjust, demonising, undermining, humiliating, demoralising, discriminatory, dehumanising, creating greater poverty, inequality and human misery. No sireee, National are in fact making a big fat fuss about sweet f. a.
“Once again we have Paula Bennett talking up what she says is the most comprehensive reform of the welfare system in decades.
“Once again today’s ‘news’ isn’t news, but regurgitates a raft of previously announced measures that, in real terms, will change little for those trying to find work.
Glad you get it Jacinda.
Just remember the first rule of breakfast club!
*Love the way this sounds just like cab-sav. Fitting really, though I understand Pinot Gris is more fashionable atm
A new study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has found that over the past 65 years, tax cuts for the rich have not led to economic growth and instead are linked to greater income inequality in the United States.
The study found that cutting taxes for the rich does not increase saving, investment, or productivity growth. “The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie,” the study said.
Things is, I’m pretty sure that the Tories already knew this but keep saying that tax cuts increase growth just so as to justify the tax cuts that they give out which predominately favour the rich.
POAL is trying on theft by managment.
by some mysterious process known only to themselves the mangement of POAL have decided that they have a right to acquire the property of the community.
It is time the Auckland City Council fired the lot of them and hired some people who are comitted to public service and broadening the asset base for all and not just the greedy little bastards who have wormed their way into the executive suite.
I woke up hearing a chuckle this morning – it was the ghost past of Rob Muldoon.
When Labour, Greens and Winston parties all want to take control of the Reserve Bank and manipulate it to reduce the exchange rate I am sure he laughed.
Muldoon would have to chuckle to see that his policy was being copied.
The thing about being the only good boy in school is that everyone else rips you off, steals your lunch money, and forces you to do their homework.
Sometimes you need to break the rules just to get along – especially if the rules are only theoretically sound and are a bit stupid in practise, anyway.
[lprent: Removed the troll that answered you, and also your reply. ]
Muldoon would have to chuckle to see that his policy was being copied.
You must be mistaken. Muldoon never used an FTT on NZD forex transactions. Muldoon never used capital controls targetted solely at financial speculation.
BTW during Muldoon’s time families could buy a house and raise a family on one working class income. Pretty good eh.
And he could give a decent speech unlike John Key.
Yesterdays thoughts before parley-a-ment (is it Yesterday once more?)
Stretch forward, i say.
Big aroha to the female Labour MP Representing Christchurch and Education in the House yesterday. Go Lianne (no time to spell check)
Schools consolidation-children to travel further. cost of fuel. More Time
(just another Brick in The Wall)-maori immersion in particular.
freakin “Claytons consultation”.
“colour-coded name badges”- more rationaliZation
is Turei a-rising?
Shirley Boys! Rock On!
Rhys Darby selling-out
anyone see the “money is Bad” wee add on 3 between current events?
imo, religion-straw men. Prophets-real men (not necesarily their interpreters though Mitt)
xtsy-Rock On!
greivances? OBLIGATIONS!!
these commentators who like to “throw” the odd PhD in? Everyman (and Woman, and Child)
a well- meaning Man said to me the other day; Socialism is “thought control”.
Whatever! Neo-lib Capitalism is thought, behaviour and emotion control.
(despair for the psych/soc graduate Pushers) cos the Pusher-Man don’t care if you live, or if you die…
Cyber-Bullying? censorship inevitably. Freedom of speech is a double-edged sword; death by a 1000 cuts. Words cannot be taken back. (Read James, he was on to it. Maybe he too struggled with a big, immoderate mouth-Martyrdom)
Regretably, authoratative Judges may need to shut some of the social-networking Web Down
(poor ol’ Spidey. and he was such good fodder for the Media)
yet,
the god of this age blinds..
ol’ Bollard aye. ïn hindsight, could have done more to put lid on property market. oh well, false foundations of costly stones and straw etc.
assimilation and accommadation. remember the Premack Principle.
ol’ John (figjam) Key -fcuk im good; just ask me!
Évery Good and Perfect Gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the Heavenly Lights, who does not change like Shifting Shadows.-James, again.
(don’t hide your light under a bushel)
Joy, is the strength of Love
Peace, is the security of Love
Patience, is the endurance of Love
Kindness, is the conduct of Love
“Goodness”is the character of Love
Faithfulness, is the confidence of Love
Gentleness, is the nature of Love
Self-Control-the Victory of Love
(be gentle on self)
Yet,
‘what is truth?”, asked Pilate.
-off to watch the animal circus now ( i do declare! the Nat MP’s have been observed to be braying like donkeys-asses)
The Obama Administration does not deal directly with the armed opposition, but it has authorized a nonprofit organization, the Syrian Support Group (SSG), to fundraise for the FSA. The SSG is composed of Syrian exiles in the U.S. and Canada as well as a former NATO political officer.
Well done to the Labour and Green activists in Christchurch who got their banners displayed on a live cross, TV 3 tonight (6.20 ish). That was about a minute’s worth of free, positive publicity! (Please contact head office ASAP, they need you to show them how it’s done).
The Prime Minister is running the risk of losing all credibility in trying to protect Banks as everyone can see right through his disingenuous semantics. It seems inevitable that the Act “leader” cannot hide forever behind the slippery John Key, who is obviously losing patience and would rather that the whole damaging affair just went away. That will only happen when Banks is sent back down the river on the next cabbage boat…
PDF payslips.
My employer sends her payroll notification slips in PDF format as email attachments.
They are passworded. When you save them to your payroll file on your desktop, they remain passworded. Anyone out there know how to permanently unlock these things. Employer does not appear to be concerned. “Tuff” she says.
Thanks for the feedback.
Dv – Brilliant – problem partially solved. Still a hassle but good work-around – thanks!
DTB – the password is the employee number – just a pain having to locate it everytime you want to read it. You’d think that once opened on a private system that it would bypass the password screen hassle.
I don’t think Hekia gives a shit. She appears hell-bent on upsetting the complete teaching profession.
In the neoliberal polity, it makes no more sense for citizens to rally than in does for, say, users of Apple computers to hold a march. In both cases, their role is simply to consume, with the ballot box understood as an extension of the cash register. If the latest iPhone is a dud, buy an Android; if the Labor Party’s been in power too long, vote Liberal.
Because democracy is understood as a market, rallies, protests, demonstrations and strikes seem, to the neoliberal, not as expressions of the popular will but as outrageous assaults on the democratic system.
To be clear, we’re not seeing the end of the right to protest, so much as its hollowing out. In the neoliberal era, tightly-controlled top-down events are still considered legitimate – witness the staged spectacles at the recent Republican and Democratic conventions in the US.
IMO, protests are seen as a less legitimate way of raising awareness of issues than in previous decades. The question is: Is this a result of neo-liberalism or is it a result of some other change that is taking place?
Neoliberalism. I think of it in terms of personal greed having been elevated for 2 or 3 decades – politics is about what individual have to gain rather than the collective good.
And the consequent yuppification of the culture. Why bother with all that dirty, noisy, unseemly street protest when you can sign a petition or tweet support for/against an idea while sitting at home with a latte?
Does saying that John Banks is guilty also result in readers here getting banned for a month like Eddie did to tsmithfield? And I quote “the police don’t decide whether there was an offence or not. That’s for the courts. Ambrose has been found guilty of no offence. By saying he was you’re guilty of defamation. I won’t have our website legally exposed like that. Take a month ban. Eddie”
[lprent: see my later note. Saying a politician is guilty before the courts has said they are, stated as fact, will usually earn a warning if we see it. Saying a non politician is will earn a ban. There is a public interest argument difference. Perhaps you should look at the legalities that limit the moderation rather than mindlessly jerking off. ]
Bob, the difference between the two cases is simple.
Ambrose was very open and forthcoming about what he did. He never claimed he could not recall. He gave many media interviews and explained his actions, in detail. He did not run and hide, nor did he refuse to allow his statements to be published. Quite simply, he knew he had done nothing wrong, so he was very happy to say so.
Whereas Banks knows perfectly well that he did wrong, both legally and ethically. He is the opposite of Ambrose. The innocent man wants to talk about it – to proclaim his innocence. The guilty man doesn’t want to talk about it. Banks steadfastly refuses to answer media questions. We all know why.
But only one of the two men was publicly pronounced “guilty” by the Prime Minister, and it’s not John Banks.
So Bob, the question for you is – whose ethics and principles are more important? Some guy on a blog, or the leader of our country? Would you like John Key’s e-mail address?
[lprent: Ambrose is also not a poliician. Whereas Banks was one both when the event was done and now. It is in the public interest for the public to scrutinize and speculate on one more closely than the other. The courts have established this particularly clearly in Lange va Atkinson. ]
My point is the hypocrisy around innocent until proven guilty, either you believe in the premis or you don’t. As I have pointed out, the likes of Eddie only seem to believe in it when it suits his/her agenda, happy to use it as a reason to ban people against his/her stance, but turning a blind eye when the comments fit their stance (below (25) are examples I was supposed to reply to Flock with).
Does refusing to answer questions by the media automatically lead to a presumption of guilt in your books? By that reakoning David Bain is guilty, cos the Police said so, and he didn’t directly answer media requests saying otherwise (obviously this is not the case as shown by the privy council).
[lprent: An interesting but quite inaccurate view. You just haven’t thought it through looking at the sites liability.
The actual test I tend to use is somewhat more sophisticated than that and is based more around the actual legal limits we operate under rather than your somewhat arbitrary standards. Eddie and other moderators use roughly the same tests.
1. Is the case in front of a court? We severely limit speculation then.
2. Are people making an assertion of fact rather than speculating or expressing an opinion. Is that clear? Is the fact established?
3. Are they a politician? There the limits are much more relaxed due to Lange vs Atkinson and arguments based on public interests (which has a somewhat more limited legal meaning than selling tabloids)
4. Are they a minor or incapacitated intellectually. We will operate to defend them because they are less able to defend themselves.
There are several other factors – but those are the most prevelant. Plus we are volunteers and moderating gets done when we have time.
So saying that the police think there is enough to charge on is a fact if they have put it in a statement or a report. Saying that you think they should charge or not is an opinion. Saying someone is a criminal or guilty is not allowed as that is something that must be done by a court. Saying that you think the court got it wrong or right is an opinion. Neither Ambrose nor Bain are politicians so we severely limit what is said about them compared to Banks. Etc etc…
The language about how something is expressed is crucial, and simple minded assertions of fact without the qualifiers (like “I think”) establishing a statement as an opinion (which I find is a characteristic of some people who think they are always right) are the most dangerous to the site.
As far as we are concerned the law is our usual limit because it is where society specifies where the limits are. It is also where the site carries the can for the comments of others. We expect commentators to follow the legal limits of NZ and we expect them to know where they are. We will moderate or ban mostly on the threat to the site posed by the commentators behaviour.
We usually warn rather than ban unless people persist. But for example stating as fact about guilt on a non politician when the case is in front of a court will almost certainly earn someone an immediate ban for extreme stupidity. Idiots doing comments like that are a danger to the site.
But in practice, Eddie seldom moderates outside his own posts and he mostly does so to prevent people from thread jacking away from his topic or misrepresenting what he has said. It is usually myself, Anthony, Irish, or RL who will moderate on legal dangers to the site. ]
Mike
“Also that the PM has a damn duty to the public to read a fricken police report that says his minister lied to us and (apparently) him about breaking the law”
Carol (via tweets she has read)
“Does Key dread Aaron Gilmore coming back on Nat list so much he has to support a corrupt Minister”
Lanthanide
“John Key continues to back John Banks, despite the police report showing that John Banks broke the law and then lied about it”. and again “It’s worth noting here that the specifics around Banks leaving parliament were around him being convicted for a crime that had a possible sentence of at least 2 years in jail, even if the punished he received was no jail term or less than 2 years. Banks is lucky that there’s a (stupid) 6 month limit on bringing charges for the law he broke, so managed to wiggle out of that tangle.”
Mike (again)
“Because while forensic analysis is not his job what is his job is to consider and act on evidence that his minister is a corrupt liar. I’m sure Key already knew that and has no problem with it, but the thing is that Banks got caught”
[lprent: In each comment it was about politicians with the public interest issue. Most of these express opinion (corrupt for instance is a description not a legalism in NZ), or refer only to established facts in the police report, or are speculations about what-ifs. You clearly lack a good assessment on what is required for moderation. Read my note on 24.2.1
There are a couple there that would have gotten a warning if it’d been in front of a court. But it isn’t. Similarly if it wasn’t politicians. ]
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Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
The allure of sport transcends age, culture, and geographical boundaries. It captivates hearts, ignites passions, and provides unparalleled entertainment. Behind the spectacle, however, lies a fascinating world of financial investment and expenditure. Among the vast array of competitive pursuits, one question looms large: which sport carries the hefty title of ...
Introduction Pickleball, a rapidly growing paddle sport, has captured the hearts and imaginations of millions around the world. Its blend of tennis, badminton, and table tennis elements has made it a favorite among players of all ages and skill levels. As the sport’s popularity continues to surge, the question on ...
Abstract: Soccer, the global phenomenon captivating millions worldwide, has a rich history that spans centuries. Its origins trace back to ancient civilizations, but the modern version we know and love emerged through a complex interplay of cultural influences and innovations. This article delves into the fascinating journey of soccer’s evolution, ...
Tinting car windows offers numerous benefits, including enhanced privacy, reduced glare, UV protection, and a more stylish look for your vehicle. However, the cost of window tinting can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article provides a comprehensive guide to help you understand how much you can expect to ...
The pungent smell of gasoline in your car can be an alarming and potentially dangerous problem. Not only is the odor unpleasant, but it can also indicate a serious issue with your vehicle’s fuel system. In this article, we will explore the various reasons why your car may smell like ...
Tree sap can be a sticky, unsightly mess on your car’s exterior. It can be difficult to remove, but with the right techniques and products, you can restore your car to its former glory. Understanding Tree Sap Tree sap is a thick, viscous liquid produced by trees to seal wounds ...
The amount of paint needed to paint a car depends on a number of factors, including the size of the car, the number of coats you plan to apply, and the type of paint you are using. In general, you will need between 1 and 2 gallons of paint for ...
Jump-starting a car is a common task that can be performed even in adverse weather conditions like rain. However, safety precautions and proper techniques are crucial to avoid potential hazards. This comprehensive guide will provide detailed instructions on how to safely jump a car in the rain, ensuring both your ...
Graham Adams writes about the $55m media fund — When Patrick Gower was asked by Mike Hosking last week what he would say to the many Newstalk ZB callers who allege the Labour government bribed media with $55 million of taxpayers’ money via the Public Interest Journalism Fund — and ...
Note: this blog post has been put together over the course of the week I followed the happenings at the conference virtually. Should recordings of the Great Debates and possibly Union Symposia mentioned below, be released sometime after the conference ends, I'll include links to the ones I participated in. ...
The following was my submission made on the “Fast Track Approvals Bill”. This potential law will give three Ministers unchecked powers, un-paralled since the days of Robert Muldoon’s “Think Big” projects.The submission is written a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it’s irreverent because the FTAB is in itself not worthy of respect. ...
One Could Reduce Child Poverty At No Fiscal CostFollowing the Richardson/Shipley 1990 ‘redesign of the welfare state’ – which eliminated the universal Family Benefit and doubled the rate of child poverty – various income supplements for families have been added, the best known being ‘Working for Families’, introduced in 2005. ...
Buzz from the Beehive A few days ago, Point of Order suggested the media must be musing “on why Melissa is mute”. Our article reported that people working in the beleaguered media industry have cause to yearn for a minister as busy as Melissa Lee’s ministerial colleagues and we drew ...
1. What was The Curse of Jim Bolger?a. Winston Peters b. Soon after shaking his hand, world leaders would mysteriously lose office or shuffle off this mortal coilc. Could never shake off the Mother of All Budgetsd. Dandruff2. True or false? The Chairman of a Kiwi export business has asked the ...
Jack Vowles writes – New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. ...
Chris Trotter writes – MELISSA LEE should be deprived of her ministerial warrant. Her handling – or non-handling – of the crisis engulfing the New Zealand news media has been woeful. The fate of New Zealand’s two linear television networks, a question which the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications ...
TL;DR: The podcast above features co-hosts and , along with regular guests Robert Patman on Gaza and AUKUS II, and on climate change.The six things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the ...
Policymakers rarely wish to make plain or visible their desire to dismantle environmental policy, least of all to the young. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent ...
I like to keep an eye on what’s happening in places like the UK, the US, and over the ditch with our good mates the Aussies. Let’s call them AUKUS, for want of a better collective term. More on that in a bit.It used to be, not long ago, that ...
TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. The data is from February this ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications:Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
The operating system (OS) is the heart and soul of a computer, orchestrating every action and interaction between hardware and software. But have you ever wondered where on a computer is the operating system generally stored? The answer lies in the intricate dance between hardware and software components, particularly within ...
Laptops have become essential tools for work, entertainment, and communication, offering portability and functionality. However, with rising energy costs and growing environmental concerns, understanding a laptop’s power consumption is more important than ever. So, how many watts does a laptop use? The answer, unfortunately, isn’t straightforward. It depends on several ...
Screen recording has become an essential tool for various purposes, such as creating tutorials, capturing gameplay footage, recording online meetings, or sharing information with others. Fortunately, Dell laptops offer several built-in and external options for screen recording, catering to different needs and preferences. This guide will explore various methods on ...
A cracked or damaged laptop screen can be a frustrating experience, impacting productivity and enjoyment. Fortunately, laptop screen repair is a common service offered by various repair shops and technicians. However, the cost of fixing a laptop screen can vary significantly depending on several factors. This article delves into the ...
Gaming laptops represent a significant investment for passionate gamers, offering portability and powerful performance for immersive gaming experiences. However, a common concern among potential buyers is their lifespan. Unlike desktop PCs, which allow for easier component upgrades, gaming laptops have inherent limitations due to their compact and integrated design. This ...
The annual inventory report of New Zealand's greenhouse gas emissions has been released, showing that gross emissions have dropped for the third year in a row, to 78.4 million tons: All-told gross emissions have decreased by over 6 million tons since the Zero Carbon Act was passed in 2019. ...
Experiencing a locked computer can be frustrating, especially when you need access to your files and applications urgently. The methods to unlock your computer will vary depending on the specific situation and the type of lock you encounter. This guide will explore various scenarios and provide step-by-step instructions on how ...
While the world has largely transitioned to digital communication, faxing still holds relevance in certain industries and situations. Fortunately, gone are the days of bulky fax machines and dedicated phone lines. Today, you can easily send and receive faxes directly from your computer, offering a convenient and efficient way to ...
In our increasingly digital world, home computers have become essential tools for work, communication, entertainment, and more. However, this increased reliance on technology also exposes us to various cyber threats. Understanding these threats and taking proactive steps to protect your home computer is crucial for safeguarding your personal information, finances, ...
In the ever-evolving world of technology, server-based computing has emerged as a cornerstone of modern digital infrastructure. This article delves into the concept of server-based computing, exploring its various forms, benefits, challenges, and its impact on the way we work and interact with technology. Understanding Server-Based Computing: At its core, ...
The absolute brass neck of this guy.We want more medical doctors, not more spin doctors, Luxon was saying a couple of weeks ago, and now we’re told the guy has seven salaried adults on TikTok duty. Sorry, doing social media. The absolute brass neck of it. The irony that the ...
Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
Chris Trotter writes – The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor in Honiara Solomon Islands’ incumbent prime minister Manasseh Sogavare has been re-elected in the East Choiseul constituency. It is the opening move in the political chess match to form the country’s next government. Returning officer Christopher Makoni made the declaration late last night after ...
Headline: The moment of friction. – 36th Parallel Assessments In strategic studies “friction” is a term that it is used to describe the moment when military action encounters adversary resistance. “Friction” is one of four (along with an unofficial fifth) “F’s” in military strategy, which includes force (kinetic mass), ...
The Fast-track Bill, if passed, would allow three Ministers, unchallenged and unchecked, to approve the immediate extraction and exhaustion of one-off resources. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne iamharin/Shutterstock For many people, the term “bulk billed” refers to a GP visit they don’t have to pay ...
Emmas Hislop, Sidnam and Wehipeihana discuss what’s in a name. Emma Sidnam: Hello Emmas! Thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. My first question for you is related to what’s been on my mind for a while. It’s very important. You see we’ve recently had some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Sievers, Research Fellow, Global Wetlands Project, Australia Rivers Institute, Griffith University Chris Brown Humans love the coast. But we love it to death, so much so we’ve destroyed valuable coastal habitat – in the case of some types of habitat, ...
Josh Thomson on the 80s milk ad jingle he can’t stop singing, the beauty of The Simpsons, why Jersey Shore is as good as Shakespeare and more. For someone who spends a lot of time on our screens, popping up in everything from 7 Days to Taskmaster, Educators to Good ...
In apparent defiance of the Biden administration, the Netanyahu government has now initiated missile strikes against Iran. Last Saturday night (Sunday morning in New Zealand) Iran launched more than 300 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against Israeli military targets. With the assistance of US, UK and possibly French forces, ...
Māori representation brings a perspective that encompasses not only the interests of Māori communities but also a broader, holistic approach to environmental stewardship and community well-being, principles deeply embedded in Te Ao Māori (the Māori ...
This week in Auckland, a group of young people took over the microphone at a ministerial press conference, to explain why they oppose the Fast-Track Approvals Bill. One young woman said, ‘We’re here because we love Aotearoa New Zealand. We want to raise our children in an environment that’s thriving, ...
The summer was wonderful. Evie was wonderful, too; finally a teenager, finally worthy of long, hot days. She shaved her legs for the first time and bought cut-off shorts from the op-shop that made them look long. She got a Warehouse singlet so tight on her new shape that her ...
When Thomas James was on his solo camp as part of Outward Bound, the keen outdoorsman didn’t find it too challenging, as others often do. In what might just be the perfect illustration of his character, he saw it as a great opportunity to solve a few problems. “I thought, ...
From the unstable and drippy to the hi-tech and pretty, here’s our ranking of all the tunnels you can drive through in this country. The first tunnel seems to have been built in 2200BC in Babylonia, kicking off a global phenomenon for digging holes in order to get places more ...
Lucinda Bennett on the art of being greedy but resourceful. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. When I picture the market, it is always this time of year. Crisp air, dripping nose, counting coins with cold fingers. Sunlight pale, filtered through specks of dew still ...
Zoë Colling’s favourite piece in the ‘That’s So Last Century’ collection is a lubrication chart for a sewing machine from the ’60s. It’s about the size of a postcard, and carefully maintained. “I like it that this piece of ephemera highlights that manual and technical side of the skill involved ...
Kia Ora Gaza A passionate haka reverberated through Auckland International Airport as a medical team of three New Zealand doctors received an emotional farewell from a big crowd of supporters before flying to Turkey to join the international Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. The doctors, who left Auckland yesterday, hope to ...
With submissions closing today, Macassey-Pickard says groups around the country have been supporting a huge range of people to make their submissions. ...
Our response to the new legislation is informed by targeted conversations with practitioners working in the system and through an implementation lens. ...
The new ‘Fast-track Approvals Bill’ would give just three Ministers the power to approve or deny development projects. They would avoid the usual checks and balances that are in place to protect rivers, land, the ocean, and communities. ...
COMMENTARY:By Eugene Doyle Helen Clark, how I miss you. The former New Zealand Prime Minister — the safest pair of hands this country has had in living memory — gave a masterclass on the importance of maintaining an independent foreign policy when she spoke at an AUKUS symposium held ...
The government's released the list of organisations provided with information on how to apply - just hours before public submissions on the bill close. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milton Speer, Visiting Fellow, School of Mathematical and Physical Sciences, University of Technology Sydney Before climate change really got going, eastern Australia’s flash floods tended to concentrate on our coastal regions, east of the Great Dividing Range. But that’s changing. Now ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elizabeth Finkel, Vice-Chancellor’s Fellow, La Trobe University Sia Duff / South Australian Museum In February, the South Australian Museum “re-imagined” itself. In the face of rising costs and inadequate government funds, CEO David Gaimster, who took the reins last June, declared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Pearce, Professor, School of Allied Heath, Human Services & Sport, La Trobe University, La Trobe University This week, Collingwood AFL player Nathan Murphy announced his retirement, brought on by his concussion history and ongoing issues. The 24-year-old’s seemingly sudden retirement, ...
The Mental Health Foundation provides support and resources for those facing the loss of their job, so it’s wrong in the very week the Government adds another 1000 jobs to its tally of cuts, that this is happening. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Howard, Senior Lecturer, Discipline of English and Writing, University of Sydney Daniel Boud/Sydney Theatre Company Decay, terror, revulsion. These are three of the central themes of Thomas Bernhard’s rarely performed play The President. The Austrian is one of the greatest ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says threats by ministers Shane Jones and David Seymour to reform or close down the Waitangi Tribunal were “ill-considered”, as legal experts say the ministers may have breached Cabinet Manual conventions. “I think those comments are ill-considered and we expect all ministers to actually exercise good ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ye In (Jane) Hwang, Postdoctoral Research Associate at School of Population Health, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock You’d be hard pressed to find any aspect of daily life that doesn’t require some form of digital literacy. We need only to look back ten ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Newton, Professor of Exercise Medicine, Edith Cowan University Pexels/RDNE stock project You’re not in your 20s or 30s anymore and you know regular health checks are important. So you go to your GP. During the appointment they measure your waist. ...
A new poem by Evangeline Riddiford Graham. Mitochondrial Problem I. It was long drive to Kansas for the man and his dog but you have to understand he said She doesn’t fly. Which calls to mind not carsick shitting barking or whining but a dog who chooses not to as ...
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I do hope that this pantomime of the two johns keeps on going. They are the joke that just keeps n on giving. I just need to listen to either of them with their rehearsed patter to start my day off with a really good laugh.They are hilarious.Surely they can’t POSSIBLY BELIEVE that the people of NZ are actually BELIEVING anything that comes out of their mouths.Smirk away key,you just look like an uneducated simpleton and your sidekick just looks like a sad little man.
Surely they can’t POSSIBLY BELIEVE that the people of NZ are actually BELIEVING anything that comes out of their mouths.
The crucial point is that the mayoral electoral expense thing is not fatal. (Unless of course Key is covering up for the possibility of him being involved with Dotcom as well … same electorate after all.)
What is fatal is that they are lying about it. If you cannot trust a person in a little matter you cannot trust them in larger ones. Sure we all spin, and creatively manipulate the truth in order to present the best possible face on matters … but there is a line.
Bald lies are over the line. Our PM is now a proven liar and NOTHING he now says has credibility. This is the fatal problem.
Spot on Red. Even the most ardent silver-spoon tory knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is utterly inconceivable that Key hasn’t read the report. They know with absolute certainty that he’s lying.
It’s BLIAR all over again. Two esteemed right-wing leaders caught red-handed and refusing to budge.
The difference this time is that they genuinely thought he was different. The golden messiah, blessed by God with money and a refreshing honesty. The anti-politician money-trader from heaven who would pave our driveways with gold.
Now a spoiled, stubborn brat, insisting to a stunned public that the dog ate his homework.
Tipping point. Now JOHNNY LIAR forever.
Totally agree Red. “Forgetting” the chopper ride tipped the balance on this one. I don’t expect MPs to be flawless, but I do expect them to be honest about their mistakes. Maybe it would help if fellow MPs, bloggers, the media and Joe Public were gracious enough to let them, instead of dragging up decade-old errors which, if dealt with properly in the past, need to be left there.
You can only leave their actions in the past if the person in question has changed their behaviour.
If justice is served people would leave them alone.
If they continue to live in denial then we have to keep them honest.
Agreed, Banks currently faces the music of his own making, and I wish he’d just front up. My qualifier was, that IF is stuff dealt with properly in the past, it needs to be left there. We don’t always see that happen, which is unfortunate. A lot of good people would find it difficult to get into politics cos whole research departments are set up to drag through their past.
“…but I do expect them to be honest about their mistakes.”
Banks’s actions were not “mistakes”. He consciously, deliberately, cynically broke the law, and he has continued to lie about it.
Agreed, my mistake 🙂
“If you cannot trust a person in a little matter…”
Repeatedly telling lies about massive financial donations is not “a little matter.”
I recently heard from someone who had travelled through Spain that there was a certain tension in the air – a sense of deep discontent.
And this morning I just read that more than 25% of the entire population of Catalonia took to the streets to demand independence. I’d call that major, no?
http://www.zcommunications.org/farewell-spain-catalan-independence-march-sends-shockwave-by-dick-nichols
There has been an ever present movement for independence from Spain in Catalonia. The difference now is the horrific mismanagement of the economy and financial crisis coming out of Madrid. We’re used to the sight of dictatorships in the developing world turning out soldiers to keep civil unrest under control. Chances are in the next year or three, the western world is going to find that it is still developing after all.
Another reason why Barca V Real Madrid matches are so tetchy (besides Madrid’s abrasive manager) as Real madrid represent royalty and playing the catalan giants is seen as freedom V being ruled over by many catalonians.
fascinating.
The Declaration of Equality
Target: 50000
Number of people who have signed: 17897
http://www.nzcpr.com/petition_EqualRights.php
We, New Zealanders, having founded our society in the equality of comradeship, and living here at home in the land we have made, utterly oppose any laws which establish or promote racial distinction or division.
There shall be one law for all:
We refuse to accept any reference to the Treaty of Waitangi or its principles in any constitutional document.
We require that such references be removed from all existing legislation.
We require that race-based Parliamentary seats be abolished.
We require that race-based representation on local bodies be abolished.
We require that the Waitangi Tribunal, which has outlived any usefulness it may have had, be abolished.
And we pledge ourselves to oppose and resist all those of whatever rank or degree who, whether by force or the devious processes of the law, attempt to impose the fetters of racial inequality on the free citizens of New Zealand.
The Declaration
The Government’s constitutional review provides an opportunity to usher in a new era of democracy for New Zealand based on equality under the law.
Help us create a movement for change by signing the DECLARATION OF EQUALITY and calling on others to do the same. Our initial target is 20,000 signatures, but we hope to build to 50,000, 100,000 and more. We will deliver the Declaration to Government Ministers in September next year to coincide with the report back from the Maori Party’s Constitutional Advisory Panel. We will keep you informed of progress…
my my you Act people do like rewriting the rules to suit your self interests.
I accidentally posted a reply to this comment in the wrong place, oops:
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19092012/comment-page-1/#comment-523072
Don’t know about your detail there griff but with you on the equality thing re increasing maori governance etc. Many early New Zealand settlers escaped birthright privilege and oppression in their homelands. They had experienced centuries of oppression and inequality and wanted to create a place where those evil strictures were absent.
Unfortunately those evil strictures are returning. In this mornings paper there was an article about one of the first new buildings being proposed in the Chch CBD. It requires consent from three commissioners – one from Cera, one from the Council and one from Ngai Tahu. What is the one from Ngai Tahu doing there? Are we subject to governance by unelected, race-based birthright privileged bastards as we were in our past? If so then they can get fucked. This system has no place in NZ.
If the treaty provides for these things then the treaty is an ass.
unelected
race-based
birthright privilege
New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day
sign the petition then
your views are the opposite of what this country needs
“unelected, race-based birthright privileged bastards ” = sad little vto
Yes marty. After all why should the Nga Tahu iwi have to kowtow to a couple of colonialist squatters types?
After all Nga Tahu are the legitimate owners of the entire South Is are they not?
Is that what the Waitangi Tribunal said red?
I understood that was what the Maori version of the ToW says. That the iwi chiefs never ceded any of their sovereignty over their lands, peoples and treasures. No if’s no buts.
For Nga Tahu I understood that is pretty much the whole South Is.
After all this is why no NZ govt will contemplate allowing a case to go to any International Court of any sort … because they know that the NZ Crown be shown to have no written legitimacy would lose the case.
Not sure what your point is red.
I believe in tino rangatiratanga so you already know what I think.
Why not just say what you want to say you know you want to say it.
So which entity do you believe is sovereign in this land?
I can work with an equal partnership between Māori and the Crown but that would need to be real not the imagined equality we have now. Until then the country is doomed because the foundations are crooked and built on inequality.
“I can work with an equal partnership between Māori and the Crown ”
Marty, I think most people understand how that comes about under the Treaty etc, and that is all well and good – under the cocoon of the Treaty with all its warts and limitations.
But what you imply in the quoted bit above is that you would expect all NZers to be subject to that joint partnership. This is exactly in line with my main point – New Zealanders are then subject to the authority of an unelected, race-based (or treaty-based, take your pick) birthright privilege. Do you not see that this strikes at the very heart of representative democracy? Do you understand how and why this system of democracy has come about and what it tried to escape and then achieve? If so, how does this fit inside your views? And, where it doesn’t fit inside your views, how would you attend to the distortions and their effects?
It’s a funny thing vto but the limitations of the Treaty all disadvantage Māori, not the other way round.
If some people move to a country and then impose their worldview on the people living there and they do it all because they are trying to create utopia or a better life for their children – they are wrong and illicit no matter how much they pray to their god.
When the people displaced, as described above, then assert their right to live their lives based on their beliefs and values, the people who have gained advantage from the imposed system argue that the assertion of those rights is detrimental to the established society. What they mean is that it affects, or more rightly potentially affects, their advantage.
That is what I believe vto.
I understand that and it makes sense within the circumstances of migration and colonisation. However, it doesn;t make sense in a bigger view, which is what I refer to – hence my point about representative democracy and its aims and settings. Your belief, I believe, is too small for today’s world and you are pushing that belief out into areas that it can’t operate in. Perhaps your belief needs expanding to accomodate other factors present in the human condition.
innit marty!
Yes I think vto and I agree that the military, economic and political dominance of the colonial settlers worked very much against the interests of the real owners of this country. No need to re-litigate all of that yet again right now.
What vto and I are thinking about is the future. You are supporting the idea of two equal sovereign entities in this country working in partnership. What I’m asking is for some details. Especially for how to proceed when the two parties do not agree.
For instance one sovereign right now thinks it can sell power stations and their rights to use water. The other sovereign thinks that it is the sole owner of those water rights. Spot the problem?
Would it not just be easier to have only one sovereign entity like every other nation on earth? And logically is that not the iwi’s?
Thanks vto but I’m pretty sure equality is a belief that encompasses a pretty wide area and is applicable today.
So your suggestion is sort out the current problems first.. That makes some sense. But the problem in going down this path is that in putting things equal, or right under the Treaty, it is beginning to create very large issues that will be problems when it comes to that future. For example, in putting things right under the treaty a co-governance approach is developing and that co-governance, by an unelected group, strikes right at the heart of the way the future should be developed i.e. equality for all.
The way in which the wrongs of the past are being attended to is creating wrongs for the future.
edit: oops, meant to be in reply to 11.14 comment below
But the problem in going down this path is that in putting things equal, or right under the Treaty, it is beginning to create very large issues that will be problems when it comes to that future.
It’s not beginning to create issues. The issues have been there all along. It’s just that Pakeha now have to come to grips with those issues. Maori have been carrying more than their fair share for the last century and a half.
For example, in putting things right under the treaty a co-governance approach is developing and that co-governance, by an unelected group, strikes right at the heart of the way the future should be developed i.e. equality for all.
Iwi are not unelected, please stop saying that. They might not be elected by you, but they are elected and have legitmate forms of governance.
I cannot see how we can have equality for all if Maori are expected to give up their sovereignty.
To get what you want we would have to turn NZ from being a single state to being many states and those states would be separated both through geography and race. NZ is far too small and interconnected to be able to do that.
Using knowledge of the past can help us with current and future issues. In fact i’ve just finished an essay on that topic but that was relating to reducing reoffending rates of Māori through re-enculturalisation.
Both of you are trying to run before we walk. Until we get equality we will have to fight the battles within the system and often those battle align with other inequalities.
Our imposed system chooses to believe it can have only one sovereign but we could change that really easily. Until then we get on with the job of challenging each and every inequality we come across. That is forward looking and that is working from what we have got not a hypothetic what if.
Ngai Tahu sold land in the 1800s, under British law.
The idea that Ngai Tahu own the South Island is a Pakeha idea.
Kai Tahu aren’t the only iwi in the South Island. Other iwi exist within the area sometimes considered as Kai Tahu’s.
Edit: that was in response to RedLogix,
“I understood that was what the Maori version of the ToW says. That the iwi chiefs never ceded any of their sovereignty over their lands, peoples and treasures. No if’s no buts.
For Nga Tahu I understood that is pretty much the whole South Is.
After all this is why no NZ govt will contemplate allowing a case to go to any International Court of any sort … because they know that the NZ Crown be shown to have no written legitimacy would lose the case.”
Three sentences there marty. Barren empty sentences. Nothing. But then again, you never outline reasons for any of your strange positions, you just shout an empty pithy slogan and attach some kiddy abuse.
my sentences were indeed pithy and I have not abused you. Your views are not the views with any future in this country – that’s all I’m saying.
Let me tell what this country does not need and that is race-based, unelected, birthright privilege.
We had it before and maori didn’t like it, yet here they are acting to restore it again. It is your views that are unwelcome in New Zealand marty. They have been proven unsustainable and oppressionary in the past. Why would you think that you are somehow different this time?
Your first sentence is a repeat of your original comment – umm I read it the first time.
Equality vto – it is as complicated and as simple as that.
That’s all you are “saying” mm ? What you are “showing” is pure grandiosity.
Yeah, we need different levels of citizenship in NZ. Where your rights are decided by whats in your blood and nothing else. We should have a sexy name for it though – how does apartheid sound?
“Many early New Zealand settlers escaped birthright privilege and oppression in their homelands. They had experienced centuries of oppression and inequality and wanted to create a place where those evil strictures were absent.”
A somewhat rosey view of colonials. The idea that the oppressed want to go somewhere else to live a better life free from oppression is contradicted by the reality once they get where they’re going, which is (apart from being tricked back into worse conditions for some) that they themselves became the oppressors. A common problem, of misunderstanding basic human motivations. For many people it’s not that they hate power, it’s just that they don’t have any. Wanting the gains of civilised society without taking the risks necessary to get them locates people within a specific psychological sphere. Early settlers may not have been informed enough to realise it, but failing to label reality doesn’t make reality any less true.
If you want to free people of oppression, I would have thought you would start with the greatest threat, which isn’t anything to do with Maori issues. At least you can understand the outrage that indigenous people feel.
Maori, circa 1840: I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
VTO, 2012: “I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
Fast forward to 2112.
And the millions of oppressed Chinese huddling under oppressive Indian colonial rule in “New Beijing” (aka New Zealand) … grumbling about how this place is “getting stinkier every day”.
clever RL (and Ut)
Not a bad assessment uturn. You’re right in that the colonial period is somewhat more complex. In a broad sense however, the point made stands – unelected, race-based birthright privilege has no place in New Zealand.
And this point of yours sums it up perfectly…
“Maori, circa 1840: I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!”
VTO, 2012: “I’m tired of this unelected, race-based, birthright privilege! New Zealand is getting stinkier by the day!””
say no more
Interesting thread. I just started reading Ask the Mountain chronicling the Taranaki land wars & Parihaka. I’m only a chapter in but I find it interesting that in the years leading up to the conflict the Maori on all accounts seem to have been consistently playing by Colonial rules up until the colonials themselves began the descent to conflict.
We converted them to christianity and then burnt their churches and bibles against everything we’d just taught them was holy. We barred them from New Plymouth unless they pledged allegiance to Queen Victoria and forsake their own culture, so they tolled the roads around the coast.
From the very outset Maori have shown that they can best colonialism at it’s own games. We have set the rules through crown law and capitalist structures, yet now we thumb our nose at a people who, through a system imposed, have a legal right to challenge government and are.
Change our capitalist structures is a better answer, because the Maori have shown time and time again that they are happy to work within the system. And that system is ,last time I checked, a colony of the Monarch who is an unelected, race-based birthright privilege.
Although that is what happened I also think it was more a case of them putting in place structures that they were familiar with.
And what is, in your opinion, this greatest threat?
“Are we subject to governance by unelected, ”
VTO, Ngai Tahu do run their society by elections. And you are not subject to governance by Kai Tahu. You are subject to governance by authorities who are expected to work alongside local iwi, as laid out by those authorities. The Crown signed the treaty remember. Would you like to undo the Crown’s authority to do that?
“It requires consent from three commissioners – one from Cera, one from the Council and one from Ngai Tahu. What is the one from Ngai Tahu doing there?”
Why don’t you do some actual research and come back and tell us why, specifically? There is an answer, but you’re avoiding that so that you can just play the race card.
CERA, CCC, Ngai Tahu…. that you consider Ngai Tahu to be the one that is undermining your sovereignty speaks volumes.
that you consider Ngai Tahu to be the one that is undermining your sovereignty speaks volumes.
OK weka … exactly who do you regard as YOUR sovereign?
That’s an interesting question Red. I will have to think about it. My first thoughts are that there are different kinds of sovereignty. There’s an obvious legal one to do with the crown and the queen, but I have other allegiances as well.
I think this is a very important conversation to be having.
weka, I actually don’t know the answer as to why Ngai Tahu are there, perhaps you could explain. All I know is that they are making governing decisions on the rebuilding of Chch.
As for the rest of the hair-splitting, well the wig remains intact in spite of it. You claim they have elections and do not exercise authority over others, but that is clearly not the case. They do exercise authority over others through this ‘working alongside’. How can you not see that? Why are so many people turning a blind eye to these realities?
vto, if I lived in Chch I would certainly want to understand why Ngai Tahu is involved in that way, and I think it works better if you treat the question as non-rhetorical. I think it is up to you to find that out though, given the issue is yours (I don’t even know what building you are talking about, this is not my issue). I think if you engaged with that finding out, and with Ngai Tahu in an open way, you might find that interesting. Why not phone them up, or go visit them, and ask?
At the most superficial level Ngai Tahu are involved in the rebuild because the local authorities recognise them as treaty partners. What that means in legal, ethical, social terms I don’t know, but I think the process of finding out is a crucial one for pakeha at this time. That we don’t know is to our discredit.
I’m not hairsplitting. I’m teasing out detail that enables us to understand and think in more complex ways about a very complex situation. There are all sorts of people who have influence in the Chch rebuild, lots of them most definitely not elected. The crux of this is about how we share power, and who gets power and who doesn’t. Kai Tahu are one of the big players, and legitimately IMO. This is their land after all.
I will say this, Kai Tahu are on the ascendant. They are becoming a force to be reckoned with. They are getting very good at playing pakeha at their own game, as well as solidifying their own culture. Best that we get on board with that, and engage with them as partners. They’re not going away. Even if the treaty was abolished, Ngai Tahu would still wield influence and power. If you are concerned about Kai Tahu influence then start supporting the parts of the iwi that are allied with your values system, in the same way that you might with pakeha society.
“They do exercise authority over others through this ‘working alongside’. How can you not see that? Why are so many people turning a blind eye to these realities?”
Please give me some examples of how Ngai Tahu has authority. I’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
In general, it’s not that I don’t see Ngai Tahu’s influence. It’s that I see it and think it is legitimate. (this doesn’t mean I agree with everything they do btw, but then I don’t agree with everything that councils or central govt do either).
Wanted to add…
“At the most superficial level Ngai Tahu are involved in the rebuild because the local authorities recognise them as treaty partners. ”
It’s likely that there are politics involved that I am largely unaware of. I think this is another case of Pakeha wanting to run society in a certain way and then getting upset when Maori get on board with that. I’m sure that Ngai Tahu are quite capable of playing the power game at that level as anyone else, and there may be things to be concerned about. But the thing that jumps out at me, again and again, is that Pakeha attempt to engage in debate about this without knowing even the basics of what is going on. We have to educate ourselves and the only way to do that is to learn from Maori. It’s up to us though.
weka, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say there. Fyi, interests take me to direct dealings with Ngai Tahu. I have experience with this authority thing and with being subject to an unelected cabal. I suggest that two separate things are being confused again – firstly, the Treaty with all its warts etc and honouring that; and secondly, the settings required for people to live contendly in these lands in the future. Those two things are entirely different but there is an assumption that one equals the other.
I am also well aware of their current ascendancy, and that is fine. Rather locals than some foreign entity who doesn’t give a hoot.
All I can do is repeat the original point which is that being subject to an unelected authority of any sort is inherently wrong and inconsistent with representative democracy. It will lead to failure. It ignores the reasons for that democracy developing and what it was trying to escape. Ignores it. Bit like Key sticking his head in the prophylactic and pretending it doesn’t exist.
The fact that this unelected authority is also based on race and birthright simply makes that situation worse again.
It is about the future. The Treaty has clear limits in what it can offer to that future.
All I can do is repeat the original point which is that being subject to an unelected authority of any sort is inherently wrong and inconsistent with representative democracy. It will lead to failure. It ignores the reasons for that democracy developing and what it was trying to escape. Ignores it.
I don’t consider Ngai Tahu to be an undemocratic body. They are treaty partners, and are operating within the dominant culture’s values that you espouse. I think you just don’t like sharing power. I also think that there is probably little useful discussion to be had if you view NT as an ‘unelected cabal’, when patently they hold elections, and they’re not a secret political faction. That you view them as that will always limit your capacity to move into a positive future with them.
btw, Maori (and many other cultures in the world) managed themselves successfully without democracy. Let us at least be honest that when you talk about the reasons for democracy and what it was trying to escape, you are talking about a specific set of cultures at a specific time in history, not a universality for all humans.
Weka, in the context I am talking about, namely being subject to another authority, it is absolutely not electable. Non-members of Ngai Tahu do not get to vote so there is no accountability and no democracy. Your suggestion is like suggesting that peerage in the House of Lords is democratic. It’s nothing of the sort. I think that, like many others, the straws are being clutched at to decipher support for a predetermined position.
And I also understand that many most cultures have managed quite well without democracy. But that is the framework we currently sit under. If we want to asssess another framework then that is another separate question.
Our current framework includes Te Tiriti. As such it includes the system we inherited from the British and it includes the systems we inherited from te ao Maori. You seem to want to remove only one side.
If we honour the treaty, then Maori are entitled to govern themselves alongside the Crown. If that had happened in the 1800s I don’t know what our society would look like today (interesting thought experiment). But instead we have a system that has evolved that tries to redress some of the wrongs, including the fact that NT have been denied access to their resources for all that time. I disagree with RL that the redress is about handing back all resources and letting NT govern. I think it’s about sharing equitably.
One way of doing that (instead of giving back stolen land) is for Ngai Tahu to be involved at levels where decisions are made about management of collective resources. In terms of Chch, you have the CCC and Ngai Tahu (let’s leave CERA out of it for now). Residents of Chch elect CCC, members of Te Runanga o Ngai Tahu elect their representatives. They then work in partnership. Maori get two votes I guess, but given how the odds have been stacked against them, and still are, I personally don’t have a problem with that. We’re not talking about equal slices of the pie, we’re talking about who needs nutrients and who is overfed. It’s about what is fair, and what is necessary.
At some point in the future, that will no doubt change. Maybe we end up with truly equal partnership. But in the meantime, what’s the problem?
As far as I can tell, you just want the treaty to be gone. This means that you don’t believe that Maori and non- Maori should be in partnership, and that means that Maori will be expected to assimilate into the dominant culture (they can keep their cultural pretties, but they are not allowed power).
I don’t think the House of Lords comparison is valid. You’re just trying to point out that whakapapa is exclusive*. But what you are missing is that (a) we have two, valid systems side by side, and (b) there are useful things in terms of governance about the tribal system that we would lose if it was rendered invalid.
*and it is only exclusive if you don’t belong to a tribal society that shares resources in that way.
I’m curious, what are your thoughts about the Tuhoe settlement?
Sorry weka, aint got much time for a decent answer (you weren’t the weka caught running off with one of my mates chook eggs the other day per chance?)
The model you outline imo is not sustainable. The reason is the very first one outlined. It is unelected (by the majority of people on one side only). It is based on birthright and race. These things cause resentment. Resentment leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred and then it is all over.
Look, I understand completely the Treaty concepts etc and how it foresaw partnership in the maori version etc etc. That has all been well and truly debated etc. And that is what is being attended to now – those rights and wrongs.
But my view stems from a base concpt of fairness and equality. Such a system as you propose fails thoses tests and will not stand the test of time, imo. It sets up divisions within society. It sets up resentment. It means some are in a position to lord it over others who have no control over the lorders. It has a faulty foundation. History has generally shown this to be the case and I cannot understand why so many are hell bent on going down the same pathway again.
There are surely problems in meshing the Treaty with equality but that is no reason to give in. There will be a solution. Time will probably the provider of that solution.
“you weren’t the weka caught running off with one of my mates chook eggs the other day per chance?”
I couldn’t possibly say ;-p
I disagree about the resentment and the anger. We watched that when the first settlements were being negotiated and settled. IMO most of that shifted over time, largely due to Pakeha becoming more informed about what the actual issues are. So, we already know that we can not only survive resentment and anger but that we can move on to something more constructive.
Secondly, much of the resentment and anger that people feel is misplaced IMO. It comes from people who are increasingly disenfranchised from their own culture. And it gets misdirected and fed by the MSM and evil bastards like Ansell using the tools of the mainstream to bash Maori. Both those things (loss of value within one’s own culture, and the acceptance of targeting Maori unfairly and unjustly) are things that we are going to have to resist and change anyway.
The other thing to consider is that within the next couple of generations, Pakeha will be outnumbered by non-Pakeha, Polynesians in particular (Maori, Pacifica). What do you think will happen to their anger at that point if we spend the next 50 years trying to subsume them into the dominant culture?
“But my view stems from a base concpt of fairness and equality”
I disagree. I think you have some abstract ideas about those things from within your own cultural ideas, but they don’t work in the world we live in because they don’t extend to Maori. I might be wrong, so please do tell me how you see the place of Maori in NZ in the future if things were to go the way you suggest (in a later conversation if you don’t get back to it today).
Who voted for the Ngai Tahu leaders? Or is that passed down from father to son? When do the daughters get a go?
Why don’t you go an find out? Or are you just interested in having a racist stir?
This is their land after all.
Which is my assertion too. Logically Nga Tahu are the owners and sovereign of the entire South Is and should be making ALL the decisions about it. Why should they be sharing their property and authority with anyone?
Either it is their land or it is not? Or are we talking about something less cut and dried? ‘Owned’ and ‘not owned’ at the same time?
answer straight – are you being ironic or sarcastic or do you believe it? The reason I ask is that this view of yours seems different from your previous views that I have read and I’ve been treating the repeated sentence that way so far.
No I’ve changed my mind. Like it or not the ToW is quite clear, that the iwi chief’s never ceded tino rangatiratanga. This is reinforced by the fact that the Maori version of the Treaty takes precedence. All this you know because you have been telling us this for years.
So like it or not we now have to take this position to its proper conclusion and determine that the iwi chiefs are indeed the proper owners and sovereigns in this land.
A conclusion that of course has more than a few logical consequences. Ones that are worth exploring I would have thought.
Thanks red.
I’m interested in your thoughts on the way forward.
One area that is interesting is that traditionally during times of conflict Māori would work together under iwi or waka groupings and within those groupings the mana of each rangatira was maintained. That same principle could build a pan-Māori grouping focused on the Māori Nation. It is a tough issue for Māoridom in some ways – ensuring mana is maintained and strengthened for all.
Well one way forward is to abolish the illegitimate Crown entity, disestablish New Zealand as a country and return to each iwi it’s legitimate territory that can be governed by the chiefs as their own nation. This is the solution supported by a simple and direct reading to the Treaty, made worse because the white settler government in their hubris and rush to exploit the country, failed to do their paperwork properly … and never established a written Constitution to cover their arses.
By tradition Maori have been proven to be generous hosts so I’m assuming that if any non-Maori are happy to pay a proper rent then they will be welcome to stay.
And if you think I’m being silly here, then what for example is the Maori view on Tuhoe having regained effective sovereignty over their land? I have to guess that most other iwi will unwilling to settle for less themselves?
But I’m guessing that there would be some practical difficulties with such an arrangement. Certainly I’d not be personally offering to explain the new regime to Federated Farmers.
Any alternate path is going to involve an ongoing tension between two competing/parallel sovereigns with two differing world views. Either that is a process that slowly converges over time … or not.
I don’t believe that Pakeha have to give away their sovereignty. Am happy to look at what the Crown is and whether it’s still useful. And the idea of devolving to regional autonomy appeals, we should be doing this anyway with the coming of peak oil and CC.
“This is their land after all.”
Which is my assertion too. Logically Nga Tahu are the owners and sovereign of the entire South Is and should be making ALL the decisions about it. Why should they be sharing their property and authority with anyone?
Either it is their land or it is not? Or are we talking about something less cut and dried? ‘Owned’ and ‘not owned’ at the same time?
It’s the latter IMO. Kai Tahu sold some land. Some was stolen. Some falls inbetween. The British forced Maori into a form of land ownership that meant that individuals could sell land, instead of that being an iwi/hapu decision. Other iwi existed here as well as Kai Tahu. Lots of complexities.
Afaik Kai Tahu like other Maori were pragmatic, they could see that the British weren’t going to go away. They could see there were benefits to having the British here. And benefits to having a treaty.
When I said the land is theirs, I meant they belong to the land and have that historical relationship around things like mana whenua, ahi kaa, kaitiaki. I didn’t mean they are the legal owners under Pakeha law, although obviously they do own some land in that sense. The big difficulty in these conversations is the word ‘own’.
To what extent the Ngai Tahu settlement was fair and reasonable, I don’t know. I know that they lost land in the 1800s that was rightfully theirs to live on, manage, be a part of, and that has never really been addressed. I also think they made very smart decisions around the settlement in terms of accessing resources within the Pakeha world that would allow them to move on. I don’t consider the settlement to be an end point, it’s a starting point.
So, “Either it is their land or it is not? ” is the wrong question.
VTO – The questions you ask are too difficult for most to wrap their head around, it simply implies regardless of which “ethnicity” people identify with, they are being ruled over, and have little to no control or say in it!
WTF is “The Crown” anyway – Good luck finding the way to the bottom of that lie.
We are all being ruled over by entities which are used to keep control of power over resources, whatever those resources might be.
Democracy does not exist, we see evidence of it on a daily basis.
I wonder if democracy was ever more than an unrealised ideal?
A word used to deceive and pacify.
Why not just add all religions/political ideals in, you want equality after all.
The heading should be “Anarchy in NZ”, sign the petition and say “Get F*cked too every one elses opinion.”
Out of curiosity, how could the treaty be made null and void? Is there international law that protects it? National law? I’m guessing that trying to eliminate the treaty would be extremely difficult.
Considering it was a civilised answer too war, I’d say the Maori voice will always be heard.
By discussion and writing of a constitution that replaced Te Tiriti. Such a constitution would have to have the removal of multiple sovereignties as it’s absolute minimum with sovereignty then being held by the people of NZ/Aotearoa rather than “the Crown” or other artificial entity.
dribble….or drivel?
btw, i concur with Margaret Mutu re rationalization re-colonisation
Griff, I’ll believe that you bigots really believe in one law for all when you start pushing for Banks to be kicked out of Parliament. Until then, if you don’t like living in a country which has Te Tiriti as its founding document and basis of legitimacy, feel free to leave. The society that you want is one of privilege, not comradeship.
Today is Women’s Suffrage Day. Some people are tweeting with hashtag #suffrageday
Sue Moroney asks people to use the hashtag: #wwkst (What would Kate Sheppard Think?)
http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/09/18/what-would-kate-sheppard-think-2/
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/timeline/19/09
Today in History:
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/Features/2/5/1/00NZPHomeNews201209181-Suffrage-Day-celebrates-women-s-right-to-vote.htm
I wonder how long Sue Moroneys husband had to wait for his dinner while she wrote this drivel.
Birds have never had it better. We only pay you less because you let us.
Predictable from Primitive Primate!
Not @ the Divorce bud, we’re working on the rest
Mmmmm….nah.
Also, has anyone pointed out that there’s more to fighting for “equality” than bashing the Treaty?
Your post makes no mention of actual equality issues: No mention of equal pay for women, or equal right for ALL parents regardless of work status, or equal rights for LGBT citizens.
Sounds to me like your petition is all about abdicating treaty responsibilities and absolutely nothing about equality.
Might be time to call a spade a spade, eh?
Ah, Ben, I thought for a minute you were replying to my comment on Women’s Suffrage Day.
But, on reflection, I see you are replying to Griff @8.29am
And I agree with you, Ben, not with Griff.
Especially agree with this:
Sounds to me like your petition is all about abdicating treaty responsibilities and absolutely nothing about equality.
You don’t agree with Equality. ok.
Ben. Presumably your reply is to Griff. Use the ‘reply’ button beneath his post or use his name so there is no confusion. I agree with your comment by the way.
Oops – I actually thought I had hit reply. Perhaps posting from the bus on the smartphone isn’t the best bet!!
Yes, my reply was to Griff. Sorry for confusion.
“Might be time to call a spade a spade, eh?”
Might be time to call a rich white bloke a rich white bloke:
http://www.nzcpr.com/ConstitutionalReviewABOUT.htm
Pretty much what you’d expect, really, isn’t it.
Maybe that link should come with some kind of warning, Weka?
yeah, sorry bout that. Although ‘rich white bloke’ alert might have been enough 😉
Exactly Ben. That petition and their review is all about removing any remaining limits to rich white privilege. At a point in history when Maori might be gracious enough to save state assets for all of us, I am deeply disturbed that some here, on a “left” which has spectacularly failed to do this, are turning against Te Tiriti. When Brownlee removes democracy from Canterbury and “lefties” see Ngai Tahu as the problem, something is very, very wrong.
+1
So key is doing gagagags as well as the fake hui and it’s all for the court case to come.
“Prime Minister John Key says a decision by some Tainui iwi to boycott the Government’s water consultation hui strengthens the Government’s legal position should the matter end up in court.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7692845/Water-hui-boycott-strengthens-Governments-position-Key
“On his way into caucus at Parliament this morning he was asked about the unity around the water issue at the national hui last week called by King Tuheitia.
He suggested that from the media reports he had seen there wasn’t unity.
“There are kind of more positions than Lady Gaga’s got outfits.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/maori/news/article.cfm?c_id=252&objectid=10834827&ref=rss
Deliberate and it will fail, as I have said on my post
His deliberate ignorance is not an advantage it is a weakness and the more he speaks, the more that weakness is revealed. He thinks he is smarter than he really is – but he isn’t.
http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/undo-gag.html
Thanks Marty.
From one of your blog links:
Treaty Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson said…
“These are our views, prove us wrong if you want to. That’s what consultation is about.”
I despair sometimes. The cultural ignorance in his statement, for all cultures involved, is profound.
Thanks, marty. Well said – Key is arguing from a weak position and exposing his manipulations.
Also this press release out in the last half hour from Mana:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1209/S00281/no-consultation-no-deal.htm
“There are kind of more positions than Lady Gaga’s got outfits.”
Last Sunday a lady on Marae mentioned three positions on water which need to be settled.
1. Who owns it?
2. Who manages it?
3. Who has the right to sell it?
Any one read this clever piece of satire? “Next Weeks Q&A”
Would make a brilliant Youtube clip.
http://www.imperatorfish.com/2012/09/next-weeks-q.html
It made my day, Ianmac, when I read it a few hours ago, but did not have time then to provide a link here. So thanks for doing so, and highly recommend it to others here.
Andre Geddis latest post on Pundit is worth a read. It has very worrying implications for civil liberties and democracy:
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/just-when-i-thought-i-was-out-they-pull-me-back-in
This is targeting sexual offenders, in response to some over-heated lynch-mob mentality. But, the legislation doesn’t seem to be limited to the nastiest of sexual offenders, but to anyone deemed “dangerous” and who might re-offend, even though the evidence shows it’s impossible to predict exactly who will re-offend.
I’ve long been very leery of this lynch-mob mentality around sex offenders. Sure few will waste much in the way of sympathy for them.
But somehow their crimes are being magnified beyond all rationality .. they’ve become the new ‘devil incarnates’ in a secular world otherwise bereft of demons.
I’ve always wondered at the purpose behind this.
Purpose ?, it’s a reflection of divorce from society because of fear, lock your doors etc.
If their is a purpose it can only be the criminals’, which is why there is fear.
And that is not justice.
Its extremely suspicious. One step away from preventative incarceration for ‘pre-crime’. Very Judge Dredd / AD 2000 / Minority Report.
In the US indefinite detention without trial or charge is now a distinct legal possibility, as long as you are deemed to pose some kind of threat to national security. Which does not have to be defined or justified publically – due to the threat to national security doing so may entail. See how it works.
More specifically in the NZ case, there is no mention of additional counselling, resources or support for these sex offenders. Just chuck them back in prison if you decide you don’t like the looks of them. It’s atrocious.
Society must find convenient scapegoats, for sure – it helps people to feel better about life.
On RNZ’s Sunday Morning Wayne Brittenden’s Anglo Saxon attitudes towards punishment went some way in explaining the origins of the nasty wee underbelly.
edit: here’s the link that wont work.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2532444/wayne-brittenden's-counterpoint-punishment-anglo-saxon-style
Dangerous and might reoffend.
Banks?
(Both sortsT
According to the Canadian Government the final cost of Prince Charles and Camilla’s (The Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II) three-day visit to Canada in May was NZD 1.25 million, not including security. The Canadian Royal Mounted Police will not reveal the total security expenditure as (Request # A-2012-03344) is only disclosed in part. Security is about 1.5 times of taxpayers funding for motorcades, hotel expenses and meals etc for the entourage and the royal toadies. So the cost of Prince Charles and his wife’s pompous six day visit to New Zealand in November will be about $3.75 million, that is 1 and a quarter million cups of tea with John Banks, 5 and a half million tampon fantasies Charles can have about Camilla, 195 hip replacements or 94 (total hospital and surgeon costs) of Bypass Surgery. The list goes on. And to think in a country like ours, 270,000 deprived New Zealand children.
kester, your last sentence is particularly poignant.
Nothing from Labour about the welfare legislation.
However, shad/cab* social development spokesperson, Jacinda Ardern described National’s “reforms” as announced on Monday, as an overstatement.
Apparently Bennett has been making a big fuss about what turns out to be not much at all. Nothing “bashing” about them apparently. Not unjust, demonising, undermining, humiliating, demoralising, discriminatory, dehumanising, creating greater poverty, inequality and human misery. No sireee, National are in fact making a big fat fuss about sweet f. a.
“Once again we have Paula Bennett talking up what she says is the most comprehensive reform of the welfare system in decades.
“Once again today’s ‘news’ isn’t news, but regurgitates a raft of previously announced measures that, in real terms, will change little for those trying to find work.
Glad you get it Jacinda.
Just remember the first rule of breakfast club!
*Love the way this sounds just like cab-sav. Fitting really, though I understand Pinot Gris is more fashionable atm
Isn’t Ardern Labour?
If so, the Labour spokesperson did say something.
How tax changes affect growth.
From NYTimes via interest.co
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/do-tax-cuts-lead-to-economic-growth.html?_r=3&hp
Tax Cuts For The Rich Linked To Income Inequality, Not Economic Growth, Study Finds
Things is, I’m pretty sure that the Tories already knew this but keep saying that tax cuts increase growth just so as to justify the tax cuts that they give out which predominately favour the rich.
POAL is trying on theft by managment.
by some mysterious process known only to themselves the mangement of POAL have decided that they have a right to acquire the property of the community.
It is time the Auckland City Council fired the lot of them and hired some people who are comitted to public service and broadening the asset base for all and not just the greedy little bastards who have wormed their way into the executive suite.
I woke up hearing a chuckle this morning – it was the ghost past of Rob Muldoon.
When Labour, Greens and Winston parties all want to take control of the Reserve Bank and manipulate it to reduce the exchange rate I am sure he laughed.
Muldoon would have to chuckle to see that his policy was being copied.
The thing about being the only good boy in school is that everyone else rips you off, steals your lunch money, and forces you to do their homework.
Sometimes you need to break the rules just to get along – especially if the rules are only theoretically sound and are a bit stupid in practise, anyway.
[lprent: Removed the troll that answered you, and also your reply. ]
You must be mistaken. Muldoon never used an FTT on NZD forex transactions. Muldoon never used capital controls targetted solely at financial speculation.
BTW during Muldoon’s time families could buy a house and raise a family on one working class income. Pretty good eh.
And he could give a decent speech unlike John Key.
RNZ National have just reported that Kim Dotcom is attending Question Time in the House this pm in the public gallery!
John Banks will be in Bellamy’s sucking up on the Geritol.
Yesterdays thoughts before parley-a-ment (is it Yesterday once more?)
Stretch forward, i say.
Big aroha to the female Labour MP Representing Christchurch and Education in the House yesterday. Go Lianne (no time to spell check)
Schools consolidation-children to travel further. cost of fuel. More Time
(just another Brick in The Wall)-maori immersion in particular.
freakin “Claytons consultation”.
“colour-coded name badges”- more rationaliZation
is Turei a-rising?
Shirley Boys! Rock On!
Rhys Darby selling-out
anyone see the “money is Bad” wee add on 3 between current events?
Civil Disobedience + Non- violence. “truth” begets Hatred
imo, religion-straw men. Prophets-real men (not necesarily their interpreters though Mitt)
xtsy-Rock On!
greivances? OBLIGATIONS!!
these commentators who like to “throw” the odd PhD in? Everyman (and Woman, and Child)
a well- meaning Man said to me the other day; Socialism is “thought control”.
Whatever! Neo-lib Capitalism is thought, behaviour and emotion control.
(despair for the psych/soc graduate Pushers) cos the Pusher-Man don’t care if you live, or if you die…
Cyber-Bullying? censorship inevitably. Freedom of speech is a double-edged sword; death by a 1000 cuts. Words cannot be taken back. (Read James, he was on to it. Maybe he too struggled with a big, immoderate mouth-Martyrdom)
Regretably, authoratative Judges may need to shut some of the social-networking Web Down
(poor ol’ Spidey. and he was such good fodder for the Media)
yet,
the god of this age blinds..
ol’ Bollard aye. ïn hindsight, could have done more to put lid on property market. oh well, false foundations of costly stones and straw etc.
assimilation and accommadation. remember the Premack Principle.
ol’ John (figjam) Key -fcuk im good; just ask me!
Évery Good and Perfect Gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the Heavenly Lights, who does not change like Shifting Shadows.-James, again.
(don’t hide your light under a bushel)
Joy, is the strength of Love
Peace, is the security of Love
Patience, is the endurance of Love
Kindness, is the conduct of Love
“Goodness”is the character of Love
Faithfulness, is the confidence of Love
Gentleness, is the nature of Love
Self-Control-the Victory of Love
(be gentle on self)
Yet,
‘what is truth?”, asked Pilate.
-off to watch the animal circus now ( i do declare! the Nat MP’s have been observed to be braying like donkeys-asses)
Interesting piece on who’s arming who in Syria.
http://world.time.com/2012/09/18/syrias-secular-and-islamist-rebels-who-are-the-saudis-and-the-qataris-arming/
The Obama Administration does not deal directly with the armed opposition, but it has authorized a nonprofit organization, the Syrian Support Group (SSG), to fundraise for the FSA. The SSG is composed of Syrian exiles in the U.S. and Canada as well as a former NATO political officer.
That’s who is arming Syria. Guess who is arming the world at a record rate, and doing so by far.
Is it China? Is it Russia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW4CvAorvf0&feature=g-user-u
U are still the Bomb C.V!!!!!
(read ém and weep whale-boy)
Romney says if you get handouts then you’ll be voting Obama.
Bank CEOs included???? Military industrial complex???? Halliburton?
Did Dick Cheney for vote Obama??
He’s also disgusted that some Americans apparently believe that food is a right that they are entitled to.
What a cock.
Well done to the Labour and Green activists in Christchurch who got their banners displayed on a live cross, TV 3 tonight (6.20 ish). That was about a minute’s worth of free, positive publicity! (Please contact head office ASAP, they need you to show them how it’s done).
National’s protection racket
The Prime Minister is running the risk of losing all credibility in trying to protect Banks as everyone can see right through his disingenuous semantics. It seems inevitable that the Act “leader” cannot hide forever behind the slippery John Key, who is obviously losing patience and would rather that the whole damaging affair just went away. That will only happen when Banks is sent back down the river on the next cabbage boat…
has len brown fired the management at POAL yet?
PDF payslips.
My employer sends her payroll notification slips in PDF format as email attachments.
They are passworded. When you save them to your payroll file on your desktop, they remain passworded. Anyone out there know how to permanently unlock these things. Employer does not appear to be concerned. “Tuff” she says.
Open them is something like preview, and do a save as worked for novopay slips.
Does that mean that you can’t read them? Because if so then she’s probably breaking a law somewhere.
Thanks for the feedback.
Dv – Brilliant – problem partially solved. Still a hassle but good work-around – thanks!
DTB – the password is the employee number – just a pain having to locate it everytime you want to read it. You’d think that once opened on a private system that it would bypass the password screen hassle.
I don’t think Hekia gives a shit. She appears hell-bent on upsetting the complete teaching profession.
Found this article an interesting read:
IMO, protests are seen as a less legitimate way of raising awareness of issues than in previous decades. The question is: Is this a result of neo-liberalism or is it a result of some other change that is taking place?
Neoliberalism. I think of it in terms of personal greed having been elevated for 2 or 3 decades – politics is about what individual have to gain rather than the collective good.
And the consequent yuppification of the culture. Why bother with all that dirty, noisy, unseemly street protest when you can sign a petition or tweet support for/against an idea while sitting at home with a latte?
Has anyone read this post lately? http://thestandard.org.nz/key-tries-to-save-face-over-tea-tapes/#comment-451251
Does saying that John Banks is guilty also result in readers here getting banned for a month like Eddie did to tsmithfield? And I quote “the police don’t decide whether there was an offence or not. That’s for the courts. Ambrose has been found guilty of no offence. By saying he was you’re guilty of defamation. I won’t have our website legally exposed like that. Take a month ban. Eddie”
[lprent: see my later note. Saying a politician is guilty before the courts has said they are, stated as fact, will usually earn a warning if we see it. Saying a non politician is will earn a ban. There is a public interest argument difference. Perhaps you should look at the legalities that limit the moderation rather than mindlessly jerking off. ]
got a comment to compare it with? You can’t have a comparison between only one item…
[lprent: http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19092012/#comment-523412 ]
Bob, the difference between the two cases is simple.
Ambrose was very open and forthcoming about what he did. He never claimed he could not recall. He gave many media interviews and explained his actions, in detail. He did not run and hide, nor did he refuse to allow his statements to be published. Quite simply, he knew he had done nothing wrong, so he was very happy to say so.
Whereas Banks knows perfectly well that he did wrong, both legally and ethically. He is the opposite of Ambrose. The innocent man wants to talk about it – to proclaim his innocence. The guilty man doesn’t want to talk about it. Banks steadfastly refuses to answer media questions. We all know why.
But only one of the two men was publicly pronounced “guilty” by the Prime Minister, and it’s not John Banks.
So Bob, the question for you is – whose ethics and principles are more important? Some guy on a blog, or the leader of our country? Would you like John Key’s e-mail address?
[lprent: Ambrose is also not a poliician. Whereas Banks was one both when the event was done and now. It is in the public interest for the public to scrutinize and speculate on one more closely than the other. The courts have established this particularly clearly in Lange va Atkinson. ]
My point is the hypocrisy around innocent until proven guilty, either you believe in the premis or you don’t. As I have pointed out, the likes of Eddie only seem to believe in it when it suits his/her agenda, happy to use it as a reason to ban people against his/her stance, but turning a blind eye when the comments fit their stance (below (25) are examples I was supposed to reply to Flock with).
Does refusing to answer questions by the media automatically lead to a presumption of guilt in your books? By that reakoning David Bain is guilty, cos the Police said so, and he didn’t directly answer media requests saying otherwise (obviously this is not the case as shown by the privy council).
[lprent: An interesting but quite inaccurate view. You just haven’t thought it through looking at the sites liability.
The actual test I tend to use is somewhat more sophisticated than that and is based more around the actual legal limits we operate under rather than your somewhat arbitrary standards. Eddie and other moderators use roughly the same tests.
1. Is the case in front of a court? We severely limit speculation then.
2. Are people making an assertion of fact rather than speculating or expressing an opinion. Is that clear? Is the fact established?
3. Are they a politician? There the limits are much more relaxed due to Lange vs Atkinson and arguments based on public interests (which has a somewhat more limited legal meaning than selling tabloids)
4. Are they a minor or incapacitated intellectually. We will operate to defend them because they are less able to defend themselves.
There are several other factors – but those are the most prevelant. Plus we are volunteers and moderating gets done when we have time.
So saying that the police think there is enough to charge on is a fact if they have put it in a statement or a report. Saying that you think they should charge or not is an opinion. Saying someone is a criminal or guilty is not allowed as that is something that must be done by a court. Saying that you think the court got it wrong or right is an opinion. Neither Ambrose nor Bain are politicians so we severely limit what is said about them compared to Banks. Etc etc…
The language about how something is expressed is crucial, and simple minded assertions of fact without the qualifiers (like “I think”) establishing a statement as an opinion (which I find is a characteristic of some people who think they are always right) are the most dangerous to the site.
As far as we are concerned the law is our usual limit because it is where society specifies where the limits are. It is also where the site carries the can for the comments of others. We expect commentators to follow the legal limits of NZ and we expect them to know where they are. We will moderate or ban mostly on the threat to the site posed by the commentators behaviour.
We usually warn rather than ban unless people persist. But for example stating as fact about guilt on a non politician when the case is in front of a court will almost certainly earn someone an immediate ban for extreme stupidity. Idiots doing comments like that are a danger to the site.
But in practice, Eddie seldom moderates outside his own posts and he mostly does so to prevent people from thread jacking away from his topic or misrepresenting what he has said. It is usually myself, Anthony, Irish, or RL who will moderate on legal dangers to the site. ]
Here you go
http://thestandard.org.nz/bankskey-water-on-a-stone/
Mike
“Also that the PM has a damn duty to the public to read a fricken police report that says his minister lied to us and (apparently) him about breaking the law”
Carol (via tweets she has read)
“Does Key dread Aaron Gilmore coming back on Nat list so much he has to support a corrupt Minister”
http://thestandard.org.nz/none-so-blind-3/
Lanthanide
“John Key continues to back John Banks, despite the police report showing that John Banks broke the law and then lied about it”. and again “It’s worth noting here that the specifics around Banks leaving parliament were around him being convicted for a crime that had a possible sentence of at least 2 years in jail, even if the punished he received was no jail term or less than 2 years. Banks is lucky that there’s a (stupid) 6 month limit on bringing charges for the law he broke, so managed to wiggle out of that tangle.”
Mike (again)
“Because while forensic analysis is not his job what is his job is to consider and act on evidence that his minister is a corrupt liar. I’m sure Key already knew that and has no problem with it, but the thing is that Banks got caught”
[lprent: In each comment it was about politicians with the public interest issue. Most of these express opinion (corrupt for instance is a description not a legalism in NZ), or refer only to established facts in the police report, or are speculations about what-ifs. You clearly lack a good assessment on what is required for moderation. Read my note on 24.2.1
There are a couple there that would have gotten a warning if it’d been in front of a court. But it isn’t. Similarly if it wasn’t politicians. ]