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Open mike 20/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 20th, 2013 - 174 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

174 comments on “Open mike 20/02/2013”

  1. Matthew Hooton 1

    Another good poll for David Shearer: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8325609/National-no-longer-a-sure-winner-poll

    Didn’t I always tell you he’d be prime minister? Didn’t I?

    • chris73 1.1

      I’m in two minds, on the one hand National staying in power would really annoy the posters on here but on the other if Labour gain power then Shearer is safe for a few years and that would annoy the posters even more because Cunliffe would be even further from power

      Decisions, decisions…

      • The Al1en 1.1.1

        The soul you were trying to tell me about the other week.
        Would your old fella be happy with that attitude?
        I foresee lots of sore knees in your future :lol:

      • Coronial Typer 1.1.2

        The departure of Chauvel and immanent clearance and reacceptance of Jones, together with (I predict) the demotion of Cunliffe supporters like Dalziell, make a post-reshuffle shadow cabinet like this:

        1. Shearer
        2. Robertson. Environment.
        3. Parker. Finance. Attorney General.
        4. King. Housing. (Probably no longer going for Wellington Mayor)
        5. Arden
        Rn. Social Welfare. Youth.
        6. Maori. Economic Development.
        7. Goff. International Affairs and Trade.
        8. Mallard. Tertiary Education. Conservation. Sport.
        9. Twyford. Transport. Auckland.

        Good hard edged balance that could take them on, yes?

        • chris73 1.1.2.1

          Whos got health, justice and acc? Because I wouldn’t want to be fed to Ryall and Collins…

          • Coronial Typer 1.1.2.1.1

            Was stuck with health. Who would you recommend?
            Parker is the only lawyer now and he already looked overloaded for Justice.
            Also presuming Dalziell gets the signal so who covers Christchurch.
            Also who would want Immigration? Ew!

        • Coronial Typer 1.1.2.2

          Sorry 6 was Jones

        • felixviper 1.1.2.3

          Doesn’t look like much of a govt in waiting. More like a govt put out to pasture.

          Mind you the Greens are good for about 25% of the seats on the left so presumably they’ll be looking for about 25% of the top ten cabinet posts.

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.3.1

            greens caucus could be almost 50% the size of Labour’s eg

            32% Labour result
            15% greens result

            • felixviper 1.1.2.3.1.1

              Yeah, I was being conservative there. But at those numbers they wouldn’t be forming a govt, would they?

        • xtasy 1.1.2.4

          CT: You must be out of your mind, sorry, but I have no other comment to this.

          Re wrongly spelled Ardern, I fed her some highly explosive info late last year, she was too ignorant and passive to even realise it, so nothing ever came of it. She rather went on about “privacy breaches” and WINZ “helping” unemployed get a ticket and job in Australia.

          Excuse me, that is to me total incompetence and idiocy.

          There are so ruthless welfare reforms before Parliament, endless stories of injustice, but do we ever hear anything from her addressing this???

          And do not get me started on King for “housing” (lost cause long ago), on Mallard (should resign for good), and well, the “leader” the Shearer, omg.

          I fear that some here continue living in lala land.

          • Murray Olsen 1.1.2.4.1

            I had some small hope for Ardern, but after her reaction to the introduction of secret bedroom sniffer squads and prison for partners, I have given up totally on her. She is hopeless.

    • Tom 1.2

      Frankly Matt, I’m confused. Two polls ago (can’t remember their names) Shearer was reported to be closing the gap, the next one reported Key suddenly gaining three points to put Shearer in the shade, and the one you link to is suddenly promising for Shearer.

      It’s enough to give me angina if I was that emotionally involved. There is also the suspicion of being toyed with given your employment by the National Party.

      Key is no longer the young, bubbly, and endearingly incoherent politico he was in the first term.

      Today, that’s Shearer.

      Even before his near-death experience in a Christchurch restaurant Key was noticeably starting to lose his spark, his enthusiasm for the job. People can read body language.

      Today he is more detached, there are suddenly grey flecks around his temples, and he must be assessing the personal cost-benefits of staying in this position. Mortality can do that.

      The strongest line of inquiry is probably to ask if he will be standing against Shearer.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        The strongest line of inquiry is probably to ask if he will be standing against Shearer.

        That would be a gift question for Key: “with all the Labour leadership instability we’ve seen, who would know?”

        • Tom 1.2.1.1

          That’s cool CV, I have never claimed infallibility. I’m just chucking out a few ideas
          for the cognoscenti (that’s NOT a secret society).

          • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1

            To be clear, it was not a criticism, this is the kind of thing which shows why it’s critical to have a capable team in any political endeavour. Your line of inquiry is good, however the detail of the wording might be more like:

            “Have you decided to stand for another term as Prime Minister, in 2014?”

    • Colonial Viper 1.3

      Hey Hoots why weren’t you up at 6 in the morning a couple of days ago, typing up a comment saying that National was at its highest Colmar Brunton polling in a year?

      http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/national-bounces-up-in-poll-5343671

      • Matthew Hooton 1.3.1

        Because I wasn’t

        • bad12 1.3.1.1

          Because you know just like i do that that particular poll has a continuous track record of polling the National Party higher than it’s actual support by 2-3%,

          To do that of course means that that poll has to poll other Party’s 2-3% lower than their actual support, depends how creative they get with the margin of error right???…

      • xtasy 1.3.2

        CV – If you have nothing but “hooters” on your mind, you are unlikely to get far in life.

    • Enough is Enough 1.4

      Labour is rising because of the corruption and general incompetence of John Key’s government.

      If Labour had a leader that could string a coherent sentence together they would be in the 40s by now.

    • Ennui in Requiem 1.5

      Deck chairs Matthew.

    • Treetop 1.6

      “Didn’t I always tell you he’d be prime minister? Didn’t I?

      You sound like a parent reflecting on an arranged marriage when their first child is conceived.

      • QoT 1.6.1

        Or saying “won’t they have beautiful babies?” when their four-year-old gets “married” to their best friend at kindy.

  2. logie97 2

    Anyone else notice the media training that has been going on for government ministers.
    Parata and Key both, when asked a challenging question, start with
    “So … and then proceed with a prepared statement line and in fact do not address the question
    at all.
    And then there is “Mr Fixit” Tina Joyce who just bores the listener with his rambling delivery. And this morning on Morning report, suggests that “reasonable people might take a different view …”
    of the report into the Sky City convention centre bid. What arrogance!

    • Tom 2.1

      I’ve noticed that, but why should anyone be surprised ? There are many ex-journalists setting up ‘media training’ companies.

      Re “reasonable people might take a different view …” .. intellectually patronising and refusing
      to engage in reasoned democratic debate. There was once a quaint notion that you have to take people with you ..

      Muldoon did a good line in that (and that long slow laugh “heh … heh … heh”)
      which seemed to disarm the critical faculties of the journalists at the time.

      One interesting snippet is that he did his accounting degree (by correspondence ?)
      while taking part in the Italian campaign during WWII.

      Joyce is in charge of a ‘super-ministry’, has to get across a range of material, and
      although made his money in radio, does not have the explanatory skills of a trained
      and experienced teacher. We all have our limitations ..

      • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 2.1.1

        Muldoon probably never would have cancelled support for night classes.

      • McFlock 2.1.2

        Re “reasonable people might take a different view …” .. intellectually patronising and refusing
        to engage in reasoned democratic debate. There was once a quaint notion that you have to take people with you ..

        I think it’s what passes for political panache these days. Muldoon had a certain style and timing, Lange had good quips, even Cullen could mercilessly take the piss from an unwary journalist or opponent, but most of parliament are more Adam Sandler’s B roles than an Oscar Wilde or Dorothy Parker.

        wassername – Gentner from the Greens might have a bit of kick. Will take a while to develop the style and get the media focus, though.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.2

      Well spotted, logie. I made a similar observation last year in a thread about Shearer’s communications difficulties. Thankfully he’s improved tremendously since then!

      Not only do the Nats refuse to debate live on radio or TV, because it gives credilbilty to the opposition, the ‘so’ response has been drilled into them from the first term (by Crosby Textor? Hooters?).

      http://thestandard.org.nz/shearer-says-on-leadership/#comment-547041

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      There’s a documentary called Spin that shows that that is exactly what politicians are taught to do when asked a question. Basically, it’s that they ignore the question and spout the spin that they want people to repeat.

    • felixviper 2.4

      As I noted the other day, the “so” is to imply that the question has been listened to and is about to receive a reasoned response.

      It’s a device for skipping the reasoning entirely and jumping straight to the conclusion. But when we hear the “so” we’re supposed to believe that the reasoning has already occurred,

      • Tim 2.4.1

        Exactery! And what’s worse is that its a phenomenon that everyone is picking up on. From my perspective, it’s a symptom of ‘I don’t actually care what you or anybody else thinks’ (the so ….. I mean), this is what I (me,me,me,me) thinks.
        The good think is it’s becoming so pervasive that its becoming meaningless: even the supermarket checkout operator said to me yesterday
        “so ….. try swiping your card” (instead of inserting it).
        It’s the new “going forwid”

        • vto 2.4.1.1

          Yep.

          Reminds me of another one to watch out for…. whenever someone says “I just think …” it meaans they haven’t actually thought properly at all. The “just” word carries out the same function as “So” in that it implies a degree of thought and consideration that simply doesn’t exist.

          So

          Just

          just so

          • felixviper 2.4.1.1.1

            The other one that Key and Joyce and others have been taught is “The reality is…” which is almost always followed by a description of a parallel universe.

          • Anne 2.4.1.1.2

            Not always vto. It seems to have become some kind of pc political ‘play it safe’ byword -which I suppose is the same thing

            I heard Jacinda Ardern saying it on the TV news tonight. She was responding to the latest bit of govt. bene bashing (smokescreen distraction from Sky City Convention Centre rort) and she preceded her answers with “I think“. I yelled at her you don’t think woman you know, so why don’t you bloody well say so. I don’t think she heard me.

            • Anne 2.4.1.1.2.1

              Dammit, it still won’t edit.

              Should be ‘politically correct byword’

              • xtasy

                Anne – I can say with confidence, often she DOES NOT THINK!

                • Anne

                  hi xtasy,
                  I was meaning she should drop the “I think” and say it how it is. I’m getting fed up with Labour pollies (and Greens too sometimes) who seem too scared to categorically state a situation or make an accusation they know to be true… without prefacing their words with I think. That immediately removes some of the impact of what they are saying.

                  I agree though, sometimes she doesn’t appear to have thought something through, but she’s not alone there of course.

    • joe90 2.5

      “So … and then proceed with a prepared statement line and in fact do not address the question
      at all.

      From the some would say play book.

  3. karol 3

    Is the NZ Herald ownership about to undergo a change? The details of who owns what shares, and who is the manager/owner of this or that bit tend to make my non-business head spin. But it seems all is not well with Granny’s APN owners:

    The New Zealand assets of APN News & Media, including the New Zealand Herald, are more likely than ever to be divided up and sold after its Australia-based chief executive, chairman and independent directors resigned.

    The boardroom stoush leading to the resignations exposes the difficulties the media company’s board, management and shareholders are grappling….

    Chenoweth and the board members said their position was “untenable” and stepped down yesterday, with only Luscombe remaining on the board until his planned resignation date of April.

    APN is now without a chief executive or a strategy to reduce debt, both issues likely to be raised when the company reports its annual results tomorrow.

    Speculation has grown that APN director Vincent Crowley – currently chief executive of [irealnd based Independent News and Media] INM – will return to APN as CEO after more than a decade’s absence.

    Other names in the mix include former Fairfax CEO Brian McCarthy who took an advisory role at APN last year.

    The company yesterday appointed long-serving board member Peter Cosgrove as its chairman.

    Cosgrove, who has been on the board for more than nine years, has strong ties to APN’s largest shareholder INM.

    • Tom 3.1

      What are the political implications ?

    • xtasy 3.2

      Karol:

      It is all about more profits being needed or wanted for shareholders, that is why this happened. Also the digitatlisation and user pay section for internet access are due to be pushed. Prepare for paying for every article you want to read. I told you all before, but stop dreaming, this is the future of “media”, sadly!

      You will have to register, pay and read in future, that is with few exceptions.

      This will provide exactly for the further social AND knowledge DIVISION in society, where the better earners, and elitists, who can “afford” to pay subscriptions, will be “informed” and maybe “educated”, the rest will become ignorant “riff raff”!

      Again, this is NO joke, it is taking place gradually day by day, just look around, and one day, you will be disenfranchised as “odd ball” “dissenters”, “problematic social elements” and the likes, as most (the dumbed down and brainwashed) will take up what they are offered!

  4. Te Reo Putake 4

    A boost for Labor over the ditch: Gillard naming the election date early has apparently freaked out new Greens leader Christine Milne. She has bizarrely announced the end of the parliamentary relationship between the two parties, while also saying the Greens would still support Labor in parliament.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/doubts-over-end-to-greenslabor-alliance-20130219-2eplv.html

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Labor definitely needs a boost; it’s sitting on the low 30% in the polls, and the backbenchers are muttering about putting Rudd back in.

      • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1

        Well, losing 45-55 on the two party preferred, which is the relevant figure in the weird Aussie system. But no question Gillard is in trouble and Rudd is quietly smiling in the background. Short of a miracle, he’s likely to be leading Labor soon. Question is, before or after the election?

      • Murray Olsen 4.1.2

        The news media is muttering about the backbenchers muttering about putting Rudd back in. I think their stories are almost totally fabricated. The Aussie media makes the Kiwi media seem fair and balanced. Most of their least partisan journalists could ghostwrite columns using Michael Laws’s name and no one would notice the difference.

  5. Lanthanide 5

    David Shearer gave an excellent interview this morning on Morning Report: clear, forceful, didn’t stutter, mumble or bumble his way through it at all, and on the complicated issue of the AG report on Sky City and rebutting National and Joyce’s spin on it.

    Pretty much a standard interview with a politician, and better than any average interview with Key (with his poor diction, slurring, folkism and reliance on catch-phrases).

    *This* is what we need to see from him, and I certainly hope he keeps it up!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2546936/labour-wants-convention-centre-process-stopped.asx
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2546936/labour-wants-convention-centre-process-stopped

    • chris73 5.1

      Naah must have been a voice double

    • Colonial Viper 5.2

      Agree – Shearer was smooth and on the ball throughout that segment. My observations:

      1) Shearer seems to feel much more comfortable talking about commercial due process and commercial best practice.

      2) The report that the interview centres around has done most of the thinking and analysis for Shearer – he is pulling out pertionent points and observations from it.

      • chris73 5.2.1

        Just keep him away from anything to do with homophobia ;) (not that National would have noted it I’m sure)

      • Lanthanide 5.2.2

        I think you do him a bit of disservice with your #2: the analysis and thinking might be there, but he is making an interpretation of what is there, in contrast to the interpretation that Joyce and co are spewing every chance they get. Now whether he did this himself or it was prepared by someone else isn’t a huge deal at this point, since his stumbling block has always been the delivery of his point, which he (finally) aced.

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.2.1

          Yes, I was well impressed with his delivery during that interview, it was chalk and cheese. Shearer when he has been at his best has been noticeably improving in that regard over the last 6 months.

        • Arfamo 5.2.2.2

          That was an excellent performance by Shearer. Stayed on point, deftly rebutted the interviewers’ attempts to get him to say the officials were at fault (the poor sods are always at risk of being restructed out of their jobs if they become inconvenient), kept calm, didn’t mumble or fumble, sounded persuasive and on top of the relevant details. He needs to be able to do that every time, on telly, and in Parliament.

      • Bill 5.2.3

        True, the hesitancy was far less evident. So it seems he can do cerebral on clearly delineated issues. But he needs to be able to present stuff that arises from passion or ‘the gut’. And he can’t and won’t because he ain’t got anything there (except for when he percieves a threat to himself and his standing at which point his alpha male response is reckless and over the top) And he needs to do the ‘on the feet’ stuff. And he can’t and won’t for much the same reason…no passion, ideology or vision to work from.

        • Arfamo 5.2.3.1

          Actually, I’m not sure that’s true. Jonkey is steadily getting up more and more people’s noses for his quick smartass quip responses that smell of smokescreening and make him look like a puerile schoolboy. They just further damage his already well-dented credibility with the non-National voters who will decide the next election.

          Shearer may actually do better to adopt a less passionate, more personably analytical style. He’s battling Jonkey – who thinks and talks in slogans – no depth of knowledge about anything but money marketing. What Shearer mustn’t do is waffle. He should tackle Jonkey on facts. Jonkey doesn’t understand facts.

          • Arfamo 5.2.3.1.1

            Shearer used one excellent rebuttal in Parliament today when he replied to Jonkey’s claim he was exonerated by the AG report. Shearer’s reply – “he wasn’t vindicated, he was implicated”. TV One news picked that one up straight away. Very good, I thought. A few more clever responses like that will go a long way. They are memorable.

    • muzza 5.3

      Seriously, its an interview, it makes no difference, Shearer is still a plant!

      Any Labour lead govt is going to continue on the same track the last one left for National to continue, and which NACT have progressed, why do people so badly want to believe the system is going change..

      The system , might change when people do what is necessary to create change, voting for the LP, will no achieve that.

      Polls are meaningless distractions for stupid people, which should be very clear then the first post today on open mike is Matthew Hooten talking about polling and Shearer..

      Wakey Wakey

      • One Tāne Huna 5.3.1

        :roll:

        • muzza 5.3.1.1

          Pull all the faces you like, it changes nothing, just like polls, and swapping the blue flag for a red one!

          By reponsding, you are showing your fear, you know that right…

          Guess not!

          • One Tāne Huna 5.3.1.1.1

            …and swapping the ECA for the ERA, and deficit for surplus, and no mining on Schedule 4 land, etc etc.

            By pretending that makes no difference you are showing your stupidity, you know that right.

            • muzza 5.3.1.1.1.1

              Its a game, its too complex for you to understand, I get that.

              While its playing out, of course there will be, positive, negative, and neutral impacts, of the journey, but the destination remains the same, its not going to reverse the trending, by tinkering around the fringes.

              • One Tāne Huna

                You flatter yourself: your banal, simplistic delusions could never be described as “complex”.

                • One Tane Huna,
                  What part of Muzza’s comment was “banal, simplistic or delusional”?
                  And why the :roll: with no justification?

                  I don’t think your :roll: was not very fair particularly not providing justification It serves to make you appear much as you are accusing others of.

                  What part of Muzza’s comments are you objecting to?

                  That any Labour lead govt is going to continue on the same track the last one left?
                  Seems to be about what has happened up until now, although I would exchange the word “same” for “similar”.

                  That “the system might change when people do what is necessary to create change”
                  Seems like basic commonsense to me.

                  “voting for the LP, will not achieve that”
                  A matter of opinion, although linking this with the first statement indicates the reasoning behind it.

                  “Polls are meaningless distractions for stupid people, which should be very clear then the first post today on open mike is Matthew Hooten talking about polling and Shearer..”
                  Dunno about the “stupid people” bit, however polls most-likely are meaningless distractions….Although there is room for debate on this one; I guess it depends whose interests are going to benefit from the opinion being swayed by reading them, as to how “meaningless” one perceives them to be.

                  • McFlock

                    Let’s assume the bits you quoted were reasonable. What was left out:

                    Seriously, its an interview, it makes no difference, Shearer is still a plant!
                    Oooo yay – a conspiracy theory, right off the bat.

                    [lab6 will be identical to lab5] and which NACT have progressed, why do people so badly want to believe the system is going change..
                    Firstly, the system has already changed, Key is a very different leader to Holyoake. Why wouldn’t it change back?
                    Second, it’s a claim of total futility. If no change is possible, then why bother worrying?

                    Wakey Wakey
                    Yay – muzz is “awake” and has hidden knowledge that those who are “asleep” cannot see because of their own stupidity. Given Muzz’ track record, much rolly eyes at that. More likely, muzz is just tripping again. That’s assuming that they’re using words according to an actual commonly accepted meaning, rather than just stringing funny words together to sound profound.

                    • That is fair enough, McFlock, because you have put up an argument, some reasoning.

                      (…and I have to say, I would have gone back and added the bit about NACT, however the editing function wasn’t working…sorry about that, I did realise it was a mis-quote and would come across as cherry picking.)

                      My point being that there was enough commonsense statements in Muzza’s comment, and some provision of reasoning, that I think it a bit “off” simply to be replied to as a :roll: and then when asked for some justification, simply ad hominem attacks were supplied.

                      I have no problem with someone who is stating some well repeated unthought-out meme (especially if they are right-wing memes…heh) getting the :roll: however, I am objecting to the :roll: treatment on the grounds that Muzza’s comment showed some critical analysis with reasoning provided.

                    • McFlock

                      Muzza specialises in salting their comments with a few points that, on the face of it, are reasonable comments, but upon closer inspection they’re either trite truisms or just camouflage for more nutty conspiracism.

                      easier to just do the rolley-eyes thing.

                  • One Tāne Huna

                    What McFlock said.

                    Oh, and pointing out the differences between the ECA and ERA etc does not constitute a personal attack. Nor does characterisation of Muzza’s comments as stupidity, or delusions, or banal, since it is the comments being described, not the tiresome cretin himself. Calling him a tiresome cretin, now that’s a personal attack. You see the difference?

                    • vto

                      I see someone else has noticed your tendency to make allegations without justification.

                      I also note Shearer’s recent comment that it is possible to not agree with so-called marriage equality without being a homophobe.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      lol, because Shearer controls my opinions, and therefore I must agree with everything he says, assuming your version of what he said is anything other than a self-serving distortion, that is.

                    • vto

                      But hang on – last week you were pointing to other people to support your unsubstantiated allegation that I was homophobic, yet now that approach lacks validity? Well, I will accept your changed view because that is what I said to you – who cares what other people’s opinions are. Good to see you come around.

                      And further, your reason for alleging I was homophobic rested solely on my disagreement with the current marriage equality bill. That “evidence” is clearly invalid in the mind of the leader of one of NZ’s two main political parties. A party that you are a member of, I think.

                      Got anything else?

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Nope, my opinion rests on your claiming membership of a tiny minority group who want to keep marriage all to themselves (otherwise known as bigots), oh, and now I come to think of it, your remark about Chris Findlayson on 14.12.12.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      sheesh, vto – someone might think that your obsession with banging the “against same-sex marriage” peg into the “not being homophobic” hole is beginning to get a wee bit extreme and irrational…

                    • vto

                      dancing on a pin head equals fail.

                      finlayson was clearly a joke, but it helps for bigots like yourself who shove their hollow opinions onto whatever’s going doesn’t it. Wanna evaluate that one as well to see if you manage to stack up again? You should be careful though as you will end up in the same pile of doo doo that you are sitting in now.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Tee hee what a funny joke. Fuck off, bigot – that’s just a joke. Tee hee, you see how funny it is?

                    • vto

                      is that it oth? is that all you got? complete and total distortion and misrepresentation?

                      that’s pretty useless.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Nope, my opinion rests on your claiming membership of a tiny minority group who want to keep marriage all to themselves (otherwise known as bigots), oh, and now I come to think of it, your remark about Chris Findlayson on 14.12.12.

                      But just for fun, I’m going to let you dig yourself a deeper hole, vto.

                      Explain to me why it’s so “funny” that “Queen’s Council” and “queer cunt” have the same initial letters, so that we can all have a little giggle, and acknowledge that you’re just a terrifically witty comedian.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      He’s gone quiet :(

                      But I think I may have seen the light – “queer cunt” is funny like “front bum” – you only see the funny side if you’re a, oh now, what’s the word? It’s on the tip of my tongue…

                    • lol – get prepared for the next barrage because vto doesn’t get it and doesn’t want to.

                    • vto

                      actually been busy, but the term “front bum” as expressed by John Tamihere and the ancient and in fact endearing term (prior to new meanings arising since December) “queer cunt” have absolutely no relation to each other. Except in simple minds of dubious intention.

                      You need to learn some understanding of people outside your world.

                      and marty mars shut up. Talk about digging holes ….

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Explain how it’s funny, you terrifically witty comedian.

          • McFlock 5.3.1.1.2

            :P

          • McFlock 5.3.1.1.3

            8O

    • felixviper 5.4

      Good on Shearer for doing his job to a competent standard this morning. Hopefully he can keep it up all day.

    • bad12 5.5

      Shearer also gave a good sound-bite on the issue on TV1 News the night befor, no stumbles, no fumbles, no stopping to self edit in mid sentence, nary an um or ah in sight,

      He actually came across as being quite forceful even to the point of letting a bit of anger show in His voice, give the bloke a +1…

  6. johnm 6

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_REJTbwJ8eI&list=UUGThM-ZZBba1Zl9rU-XeR-A&index=6

    More about the U$K situation. Remember Key has said Cameron is a friend of his.

  7. lprent 7

    Edit test.

  8. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8

    Is anyone listening to Radionz while Sir James Dyson (think vacuum cleaners et al) talks about inventing and engineering and manufacturing. He is pure gold for good practical opinions. Listen up NZ politicians and alert and pragmatic citizens.

    • fenderviper 8.1

      Yes I caught some of that, was very interesting especially his points about r&d and the necessity to keep investing in product development.

      I look forward to seeing the tap and hand dryer all in one thing he described.

  9. vto 9

    How does Gerry Brownlee get away with putting the reason for not offering full payment to red zone bare land owners in Chch down to their lack of insurance when it is not possible to get that insurance he says is needed?

    He refuses to acknowledge and recognise this.

    It is this type of conduct which leads to politicians being ranked the lowest of the low.

    • fenderviper 9.1

      I agree, but it seems National politicians get ranked on their ability to bully and Brownlee is one of their best. Why voters aren’t turned off by this I’ll never know, maybe they misinterpret bullying as being assertive, confident and knowledgeable.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        Works for the ABCs.

      • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 9.1.2

        fenerviper
        lolz I think you are right about NZ attitudes. Ask a group of ordinary NZs to dredge their heads for ideas about anything (not being asked to criticise or complain) and very little will come out. Then someone who is assertive will take over and the whole process is master minded by his/her views. I

        I’ve seen it happen and its dispiriting to me as I believe that we have been educated to take a place in a society living by reasoned decisions. I have never conducted an experiment where people are taught brain-storming, encouraged to bring up ideas first and then all examine them for how they could be utilised for practical results. I think with some time and effort at a thinking session, individuals would come up with valuable ideas. Then there is no place for loud-mouths and put-downs by a steam-roller with more mouth than brain over-riding the shyer, diffident members so frequently seen in our society.

  10. Te Reo Putake 10

    Things go from bad to worse for top pommy toff David Cameron. Not only does he have bad polls and Boris Johnson to worry about, he’s also accidently got Mozza and Johnny Marr agrreing on something for the first time in decades:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/19/david-cameron-smiths-what-difference

    Rather witty comments section, too!

  11. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 11

    I made a mistake in placing a comment under an ‘old’ one, and it might get lost. I thought it was an appropriate time to introduce the old song You’ve got to Accentuate the Positive. (And mess with mister in-between refers to supportr needing to be full.)

    You’ve got to accentuate the positive
    Eliminate the negative
    And latch on to the affirmative
    Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
    You’ve got to spread joy up to the maximum
    Bring gloom down to the minimum
    Have faith or pandemonium’s
    Liable to walk upon the scene

    This is the point I made at NoseViper (The Nose knows) …
    20 February 2013 at 10:58 am on Reshuffle for Unity and see the whole lyrics of the song also good retro you tube vocal.
    Yes it gets to the point where the destructive force of pressing for change mounts higher as it continues and what is being destroyed is Labour’s chances to do anything because it doesn’t get elected. So I think keep working for change (limitation of terms or?). And push for more positives rather than blanket disapproval and increase the positives.

  12. Pascal's bookie 12

    Of course there was cow shit in the drinking water, what do you expect after the rain?

    Welcome to NZ Inc, enjoy your stay.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8327280/New-well-for-Darfield-after-gastro-outbreak

    • vto 12.1

      Has Federated Farmers got anything to say about this?

      Have the local dairy farms which caused this offered to clean up their mess? Including, the vomit of those people they caused sickness in?

      I would suspect not …… what does that say about their attitudes to society and their immediate neighbours? Not much.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        Yep, they’ll go on about everybody taking personal responsibility but won’t say or do a damn thing when it becomes obvious that they have a responsibility they need to accept.

        • marty mars 12.1.1.1

          Dairy farmers should be required to source their personal water downstream from their farm. I imagine that would sort the majority of cowshit pollution problems out quite quickly.

  13. Rogue Trooper 13

    SOMEBODIES ripped a “Banksie” off the Poundland wall.
    meanwhile the govt insurance payout offer on undeveloped ChCh sections is 50% of R.V.

    a real gem from Bob Jones (one of the few i can recall); “people on boards are bludgers and parasites, boards are a joke.” (bit of an upper cut).

    is JT dead from the open-collar up?

    Janus, Flockie, a summing up.

    Pr 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, yet wisdom is found in those who take advice.

  14. Pascal's bookie 14

    If you were searching for a metaphor to describe the ChCh rebuild, would you go with:

    a) A coiled spring building up tension before rapidly releasing energy.

    or

    b) Anything else.

    • Rogue Trooper 14.1

      sand always comes to mind (having lived there for Seven years; used to rip down Telegraph Road)

    • vto 14.2

      c) a sagging sausage slowly sinking into soft sands sans sizzle, setting up a sorry city, sorry to say.

      d) c) with a small weak shot of a).

      • Pascal's bookie 14.2.1

        Gerry Brownlee used ‘a’. Reported in NBR Property Investor.

        Hopefully the liquifaction from this burst of pent up energy is a nice new city! Huzzah.

        • vto 14.2.1.1

          It’s easy to get very different views on the huge number of things going on and not going on in the city.

          Some sectors and locations are going gang-busters and are bursting at the seams with excitement. Others are sagging and looking weak. It is a city of many tales now and a city of many and varied views on what is going on and where it will end up. To view the complete picture is like putting together a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle, which then gets turned into a slowly spinning kaleidoscope.

          A big round view on where it is heading can be gained from looking at this governments approach and competency in completing its Blueprint projects etc. There is a strong element of “believe it when it happens” with this and many are simply waiting see the anchor projects come to fruition before going much further with the CBD. Of course the CBD is but one part of the puzzle.

          Don’t mind my 2c on it, we are in the forgotten east and it is easy to get depressed about it all. I tell you one of the main factors depressing people imo is the loss of the CBD and all of its busyness and cosmopolitality and workers and tourists and funny locals and students and theatres restaurants museums big shops small shops on and on and on it goes. We have truly lost a city and I think that reality alone is one of the main depressing stresses.

          • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1.1.1

            You haven’t lost a city. You’ve lost the networks and communications, the community, that the city represents and now the authoritarians of this government are busily trying to recreate it in their image through disaster capitalism.

            • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.1.1.1

              You’re taking the phrase ‘lost a city’ much too literally I suspect, and in doing so negating the validity of the psychological (and psychic) damage which has occurred.

              • Draco T Bastard

                The city, as a physical location, still exists. What has been lost is the social structure.

                • vto

                  I think you miss my point a bit a lot. The sense is that we really have lost a city. And we have. The loss of the buildings and the scape they created – the physical location is meaningless when it is empty dustbowls. And of course all of the society and community that lived and interacted within that built scape. That is gone. It has been lost. It has been destroyed and morphed into a different form of “population interaction”. We are now simply a bunch of suburbs. The city has been lost. There is no city of Christchurch, as defined by what we had before (being that cosmopolitan central city of density and activity etc).

                  I think I haven’t described it very well but hopefully you get my point.

                  Imagine, all you Wellingtonians, if central Wellington was lost. Gone. Flattened like Chch. Not there anymore. It is bizarre.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Imagine, all you Wellingtonians, if central Wellington was lost. Gone. Flattened like Chch.

                    Would that include the space between the Terrace and Molesworth St?

                    :P

                  • Pascal's bookie

                    Young fella from your way done got himself a writing space in teh Herald:

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866637

                    • vto

                      Hah. Hardly surprising that Gerry Brownlee would resort to deception. As I said earlier, it is a city of many tales, defined by specific geographical location more than anything else, which is what the writer also says. Pretty obvious really.

                      Here is something more to whet the appetite for those wanting to nail this govt lot – heavy rumours abound that red zoners and red stickered folk who remain in their homes are about to have sewer, water and other services chopped to force them out………..

          • Pascal's bookie 14.2.1.1.2

            Mate.

      • Treetop 14.2.2

        Did you hear about the square sausages on TV 3 last night?

        Makes a lot more sense than some Nat policy, at least the sausages cook evenly and do not roll over. I think they are skinless, so will save skining.

  15. Rogue Trooper 15

    These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them (got that down pat). For thay mouth empty boastful words and by appealing to the lustful desires of human nature they entice people who are escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom while they themselves are slaves-for a person is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

    2 Pete (2:17)

  16. geoff 16

    Why isn’t the New Zealand Democratic Party for Social Credit more popular than it is?

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      Needs a shorter name, a smart charismatic speaker who really understands economics for a leader, needs to update its old social credit ideas to accomodate principles of environmental and resource depletion, needs a few standout policies which make other people look orthodox and conventional, and it needs some (lol) serious money backing it. Well, not that serious. $200K would do.

      They made a commendable effort campaigning in 2011, I have to say, better than they’ve managed for quite some years.

      • alwyn 16.1.1

        There is a major problem there, which you’ve identified in the first line.
        That’s when you say that the Social Credit leader needs to be someone who really understands economics. That’s like looking for a new Pope who doesn’t believe in God.

        Do you really think a new party could campaign on only 200K and have any chance of getting into Parliament? The rules so strongly favour existing parties I wouldn’t have thought it possible. They wouldn’t get more than a risible amount of TV time, if any at all, and without being in Parliament they would have to pay their own travel costs. It was free travel for MPs after all, that made the Greens so desperate to get Nandor out and Russel into the house when Russel got elected leader. Without that the would have to have found the money to pay for Russel’s rambles during the election campaign. With him as an MP they had unlimited use of the taxpayer’s purse. Being able to speak in Parliament wasn’t of much importance at that stage of the electoral cycle.

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1

          I’d suggest that the goal for 2014 would not be to get into Parliament, it would be to get a solid 2% of the vote. Base building for a solid attempt at 2017.

    • lprent 16.2

      There used to be a lot more of them, but I formed my (poor) opinion of them after talking to many of their supporters. It wasn’t their policies that I objected to. It was the religious fervour.

      I’d point out that I have exactly the same reaction to the conservatives, many of the far left, most people who are fervently religious (ie want to tell me or anyone else how we should live our life rather than living their own life according to their precepts), and anyone who thinks computers can show any signs of intelligence.

      • McFlock 16.2.1

        I think they joined the alliance with the greens, then departed with Anderton.

        • millsy 16.2.1.1

          Their leader got no votes in the electorate she stood in. That is correct. Zero.

          A far cry from when Bruce Beetham had Rangitikei as his personal feifdom.

          Most of the SC vote was a protest vote against the Muldoon government. When Muldoon was gone, its vote collapsed.

          The 1987 election is rather forgotten, but it has the historical significance as the election in which in which they faded as a third party,

      • xtasy 16.2.2

        “It was the religious fervour.”

        I know one from years back, she was a committed Mormon.

        There were also others of mixed backgrounds. Some of their ideas were very good, but once you learned the nitty gritty of who was involved for whatever purpose, it got me disinterested.

        I am happy to “embrace” any nun, but I fear, most will not want to be embraced, even in friendship, also for that fear, often unreasonable, of being “abused”. Strangely many of their “brethren” faced issues that seem to be more to worry about.

        Good night, nuns, non nuns, anarchists, socialists, social democrats, humanitarians, environmentally concerned friends, and all else who may care and want a better world.

        X

  17. bad12 19

    Interesting conversation going on on RadioNZ National right now about a Hydrogen booster kitset that a bloke in Paraparaumu has fitted to His car,

    He expects to save 70 odd % of His fuel bill (petrol) by having this system, must have a look online to see what this entails…

    • alwyn 19.1

      The figures for his current consumption were quoted in the Dom/Post this morning. According to them he managed to drive from Paraparaumu to Otaki using 7.1 ltr/km in his Corolla. The car has an official consumption of 8.1 ltr/km.
      That seems dreadful to me.
      I have a car with an official overall consumption of 9.4 ltr/km. On a flat open stretch like that, travelling at the speed limit and with the air-con on I will routinely get 6.8 km/ltr so his claimed consumption doesn’t seem very good at all. Note that I am not trying to get spectacular figures and drive normally.
      It also wasn’t at all clear how it would get any better. The claims do seem a bit like the claims that there is a carb that will let you get 150 mpg, except that the oil companies bought it up and are hiding it.

  18. aerobubble 20

    Just a question. Will lawyers be liable now that government has awarded land owners 50% of the unimproved water-gas-power-roaded lots value for not having informed their clients that they needed to improve their property otherwise they’d only get 50% of the value?

    I mean, for sure, in future lawyers on purchase of empty land will have to tell clients to get out and put in a mail box or some improvement so they aren’t exposed to the Brownlee shakedown.

    The Brownlee shakedown is where ‘he’s doing them a favor giving them 50% rather than the new now earthquake destroyed land estimate ??1%??.

    Yeah I can see in the future some of this land coming back to market when better building technology appears.

  19. URGENT!

    FYI

    20 February 2013

    MEDIA RELEASE: “Stop Chicken Coop Housing!”

    Housing Lobby Spokesperson Sue Henry

    “It’s an absolute insult to residents in existing communities for this Auckland Council to proceed with the proposal to ‘slummify’ numerous areas (32) with high-rise intensive housing, particularly housing 8 stories high in Glen Innes,” says Housing Lobby Spokesperson, Sue Henry.

    “Over many years, practically every area earmarked for decimation, (for the benefit of property developers and speculators), has had resounding opposition from the residents currently living in them,” she continued.

    “Are the Mayor and Councillors listening to the public, and communities opposing housing intensification in Auckland?

    NO – they are not!”

    “We would not like to see formal notification for the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan actioned in September 2013, with local body elections looming in October 2013.

    It would be far more appropriate to wait for a newly-elected Auckland Council to settle in first.”

    Sue Henry

    Spokesperson
    Housing Lobby

    Ph (09) 575 6344

  20. FYI

    WHO CONTROLS AUCKLAND COUNCIL?????

    20 February 2013

    ‘Open Letter’ to the Mayor and all Auckland Councillors:

    Did YOU authorise this ‘directive’ from CEO Doug McKay – effectively ‘blocking’ fellow ‘anti-corruption
    whistle-blower – Gary Osbourne?

    Dear Mayor Len Brown,

    Please confirm that you, either personally or collectively through a resolution passed by elected Auckland Councillors, authorised the Principal Administrative Officer (CEO) of Auckland Council, Doug McKay to issue the following ‘directive’, the effect being to block/ filter the emails of fellow ‘anti-corruption’ / ‘concerned citizen’ Gary Osbourne from reaching Auckland Council elected representatives.

    Can you please reply – YES or NO?

    If YES, upon what lawful basis?

    Please be advised that I have the authority of Gary Osbourne to publicise the following ‘directive’ from Auckland Council CEO, Doug McKay

    FYI – I read this ‘directive’ out today, Wednesday 20 February 2013, 11.45am -ish) on Radio Live, when the former Minister of Local Government, Rodney Hide was host.

    https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=18afffb768&view=att&th=13cf47c57f5d3f79&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P-I5Cd-lIWIP7LzmJSi9erv&sadet=1361320648353&sads=wWHEIzAYJ8yQ-KSNUtbRoOltpVg

    _______________________________________________________________________________________

    “Auckland Council MEMO 19 June 2012

    To: Darryl Griffin, Manager Democracy Services

    From: Doug McKay, Chief Executive

    Subject: Case Management – Mr Gary Osbourne

    Darryl,

    I confirm my previous verbal advice that you are assigned to case manage Mr Gary Osbourne, and respond to any inquiry lodged with Auckland Council by telephone, email, in person or in writing by him.

    Please ensure that Mr Osbourne, Customer Services (including all call centres) and the Mayor’s Office are aware of this directive.

    Doug McKay

    Chief Executive.
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    As an ‘anti-corruption’ – ‘pro-transparency’ Public Watchdog, I am DEEPLY concerned at this action by Auckland Council CEO, Doug McKay.

    Not only is Gary Osbourne a concerned citizen and ratepayer, he is also an ‘anti-corruption/ pro-transparency whistle-blower’.

    Is this an attempt by Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay to effectively help ‘cover-up’ allegedly corrupt / non-transparent practices by Auckland Council, and/or Auckland Council CCOs?

    Not only are there legal NO PROTECTIONS for New Zealand ‘whistle-blowing’ citizens and ratepayers – but Auckland Council at the highest levels are, in my opinion, engaging in what I consider to be an arguably corrupt form of local government ‘censorship’, and violating citizens lawful rights :

    Please be reminded of the OATH you swore, upon obtaining your elected office:

    http://www.lgnz.co.nz/lg-sector/role/index.html

    “I, [full name of councillor], declare that I will faithfully and impartially, and according to the best of my skill and judgment, execute and perform, in the best interests of [name of region or district], the powers, authorities, and duties vested in or imposed upon me as a member of the [name of local authority] by virtue of the Local Government Act 2002, the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987, or any other Act.”

    _____________________________________________________________________________

    The LAW, which I believe applies in this situation:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225513.html

    NZ BILL OF RIGHTS ACT 1990
    14. Freedom of expression

    Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.
    _____________________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171810.html

    LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT 2002
    14Principles relating to local authorities
    (1)In performing its role, a local authority must act in accordance with the following principles:

    (a)a local authority should—
    (i)conduct its business in an open, transparent, and democratically accountable manner; and

    (ii)give effect to its identified priorities and desired outcomes in an efficient and effective manner:

    (b)a local authority should make itself aware of, and should have regard to, the views of all of its communities; and

    (c)when making a decision, a local authority should take account of—
    (i)the diversity of the community, and the community’s interests, within its district or region; and
    (ii)the interests of future as well as current communities; and
    (iii)the likely impact of any decision on the interests referred to in subparagraphs (i) and (ii):
    (d)a local authority should provide opportunities for Māori to contribute to its decision-making processes:
    (e)a local authority should collaborate and co-operate with other local authorities and bodies as it considers appropriate to promote or achieve its priorities and desired outcomes, and make efficient use of resources; and

    (f)a local authority should undertake any commercial transactions in accordance with sound business practices; and

    (fa)a local authority should periodically—
    (i)assess the expected returns to the authority from investing in, or undertaking, a commercial activity; and
    (ii)satisfy itself that the expected returns are likely to outweigh the risks inherent in the investment or activity; and
    (g)a local authority should ensure prudent stewardship and the efficient and effective use of its resources in the interests of its district or region; and

    (h)in taking a sustainable development approach, a local authority should take into account—
    (i)the social, economic, and cultural interests of people and communities; and
    (ii)the need to maintain and enhance the quality of the environment; and
    (iii)the reasonably foreseeable needs of future generations.

    (2)If any of these principles conflict in any particular case, the local authority should resolve the conflict in accordance with the principle in subsection (1)(a)(i).

    _______________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0174/latest/whole.html#DLM122283

    LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL INFORMATION AND MEETINGS ACT 1987
    4Purposes
    The purposes of this Act are—
    (a)to provide for the availability to the public of official information held by local authorities, and to promote the open and public transaction of business at meetings of local authorities, in order—
    (i)to enable more effective participation by the public in the actions and decisions of local authorities; and
    (ii)to promote the accountability of local authority members and officials,—
    and thereby to enhance respect for the law and to promote good local government in New Zealand:
    (b)to provide for proper access by each person to official information relating to that person:
    (c)to protect official information and the deliberations of local authorities to the extent consistent with the public interest and the preservation of personal privacy.

    ______________________________________

    I look forward to your prompt reply.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate

    ………………………………..
    ………………………………..

    My website – covering my legal submissions as a ‘Named Respondent’ in the Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal (CIV-2011-404- 8284) :

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/OCCUPY-AUCKLAND-APPEAL-APPLICATION-BY-APPELLANT-BRIGHT-TO-ADDUCE-NEW-EVIDENCE-pdf.pdf

    Gary Osbourne’s blog:

    http://accountabilitynz.wordpress.com/

    • fenderviper 24.2

      lol

      Half of those seem to sum up our current PM

    • Te Reo Putake 24.3

      Timeless comedy gold, P’s B! And kudos to the hard working civil servant who compiled the list. Mint!

      “His brains could revolve inside a peanut shell for a thousand years without touching the sides”

      Tony Abott?

      “Energy of a tired snail returning home from a funeral”

      King Jerry?

      “Could go down the Mount Eden sewer and come up cleaner than he went in”

      Well, if it was the Parnell sewer …

    • Colonial Weka 24.4

      Best laugh of the day Pb, cheers.

  21. AmaKiwi 25

    To David Shearer:

    The MSM keeps promoting the lie that Sky City is doing us a favor by building a conference venue THEY will own.

    The Auditor General’s report says a year before there was any discussion of more poky machines Sky had decided to build the venue. Sky would build it with OR WITHOUT the additional pokies.

    Sky City is getting 30 pokies worth $193 million for free. The public gets NOTHING.

    You can’t say this outside of Parliament, but it smells to high hell of bribery and corruption.

    Can the PM state unequivocally that no National MP (personally or through a trust or nominee company) and no major financial contributor to National does not own any shares in Sky City?

    No, he cannot. Because Sky contributed to National (and John Banks).

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