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Open mike 21/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:28 am, August 21st, 2014 - 191 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

191 comments on “Open mike 21/08/2014”

  1. karol 1

    Wayne Mapp blogs the election campaign that has been impacted by Hager, and about the wild west of political blogs. He gets in a word or two of support for KB and WO.

    He has come in for some pretty harsh responses here – I imagine he doesn’t get such harsh respones on those other two blogs.

    But the differences shown up by Hager are the manipulations, and nasty, covert, underhand dealings that have been associated with WO.

  2. mickysavage 2

    The ODT editorial for today is a brutal skewering of Key’s performance over Dirty Politics.

    Some highlights:

    Justice Minister Judith Collins has become a liability to Prime Minister John Key, the Government and more widely, and disturbingly, the country.
    How a Minister of Justice, entrusted with upholding the highest standards in the land, can lower her own personal standards to feed confidential personal information about a civil servant to a right-wing blogger – knowing full-well the consequences of her actions – is beyond most right-minded people.

    Mr Key should sack Ms Collins now, but will not take that action.

    The reason he will not sack her is, of course, because the election is a month away and to remove the Justice Minister now will give further oxygen to an issue he has already handled badly.

    Ms Collins seems to think the rules of decency do not apply to her; and now some in her electorate seem to feel the same.

    Dirty Politics-gate has dominated national political coverage since the book’s launch, with claim and counterclaim being made.

    But assertions of other parties behaving badly are just that.

    • Rosie 2.1

      Nice one ODT

    • aerobubble 2.2

      John Key puts style above substance, in fact now its been shown he’s so desperate to keep substance out of the debate he has his staff manage SIS information queries that directly help WhaleOil do the dirty work.

  3. RTM 3

    Nicky Hager in 1940? Certainly, some of the Nats would like to drive their critics into caves…
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/caving-with-nicky-hager.html

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4

    New Roy Morgan only overlaps Dirty Politics by one day.

    N L G NZF MP IMP ACT UF Con Other
    48 27.5 11.5 6.5 1 2.5 0.5 0.5 1 1

    • Polling companies spend the last day or two quota filling, I think.

      Also, my view of the media coverage of the book in the first two days was basically – nothing to see here, it will all blow over in a couple of days, it’s just politics as usual, etc.. If I’m right then most people would have just dismissed it.

      But over the weekend it got legs and that will start to produce whatever impact it is likely to have.

      [Edit: RM polling was 4-17 August so more than one day overlap]

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

        I agree: we’ll see the impact in the next round of polls. Or not, I guess, if it hardens National’s support.

        • Enough is Enough 4.1.1.1

          It overlapped by 4 days.

          I don’t think the election will hinge on a book about Blubber boy. It has always been and will always be about the left offering an alternative more equitable society, to the 1% paradise on offer from Key.

          I think internal polling is showing that as well. You can see Cunliffe and Norman are trying to get their message out through all the noise about fucking Cameron Slater. They are not feeding this National Party cluster fuck because I think they know that we need more than Hager’s book to get home this year.

    • tricledrown 4.2

      Also when you look at the numbers of MP’s it shows a much closer race only 1 MP in it!

  5. phil goff has given proof to tvone that john key is lying when he says:..’i didn’t know’..

    ..goff has presented a letter written by spook-boss tucker..

    ..in which he states repeatedly how he had briefed key every step of the way…

    ..(and of course..this could be what collins ‘knows’ about key…that has stopped him sacking her..

    ..explains his fear of her going ballistic..

    ..’cos if key told slater..you can bet that collins was also in that loop..)

    ..another day in this campaign..and it just keeps getting messier for key..

    ..’team key’..indeed..!

    ..and for goff..he is living that ‘revenge best taken cold’ maxim..

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1

      Not a Goff fan but felt at the time something was very whiffy, sure Warren Tucker coughed up a copy of the briefing allegedly intended for Goff, but in the absence of verifiable minutes it is highly likely on the balance of etc. that Goff was never personally delivered that briefing.

      Do unobserved events still happen? Of course, that is the chair Goff would have been sitting in.

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        no..the evidence is a copy of a letter from tucker to an un-named journalist..(i should have made that clear..)

        • Tiger Mountain 5.1.1.1

          ok

        • veutoviper 5.1.1.2

          Here is a link to the letter from Tucker to Felix Marwick (Chief Political Reporter at Newstalk ZB) in Nov 2011 reposted by Barry Soper on Twitter (link posted a short time ago and copied from Public Address)

          https://twitter.com/barrysoper/status/502171298710036480

          This comment from Russell Brown on PA about the letter is worth reading

          http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-mind-the-quality/?p=320674#post320674

          Both Newstalk ZB and Morning Report (RNZ) have today reported a direct contradiction between Warren Tucker and John Key. Tucker says he told the PM about Slater’s OIA, Key says he didn’t.

          Until now, I’ve felt that Key (and Collins) could ride this out, albeit clumsily. But if this latest story is true, then he really is in trouble.”

          Thing is, Tucker told this to ZB’s Felix Marwick in 2011. In the letter attached to this post. It’s hard to see how Key can continue to claim he wasn’t consulted and knew nothing, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him try. He’s now caught very deep in that lie.

          The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security’s inquiry will doubtless also be interested in who Slater was talking to for his “expedited” OIA request.

          Also: good work Felix Marwick for keeping the paperwork. That’s how good journalists roll.

          Lots of legs on this angle …..

          • gobsmacked 5.1.1.2.1

            “My office was told … I wasn’t told”. Key to Felix Marwick, Newstalk ZB.

            Tucker’s letter: “I notified / advised / informed the Prime Minister”.

            Those are direct quotes.

            His only defence can be “me = my office”, and hoping Tucker can’t or won’t say different. So there’s only one question to be asked today …

            “Did Tucker brief you in person Prime Minister, yes or no?”

            • Tom Jackson 5.1.1.2.1.1

              That would be weak. The letter clearly says “the Prime Minister” and not “The Prime Minister’s Office”.

              • and the head of the spooks doesn’t brief ‘someone in keys’ office’..

                ..goff detailed this morn the restrictions placed on/around those spook-briefings..

                ..keys’ next stand-up with the media should be interesting..

                ….it is no small matter for the pm to be proven to have lied to the country…(and just yesterday..)

            • politikiwi 5.1.1.2.1.2

              If he tries the “me = my office” line then someone needs to remind him that Jason Ede worked in his office and with Cameron Slater.

              Therefore Jason Ede = Key’s Office = Key himself.

              You’re fucked, sunshine.

              No wonder Blinglish was on RNZ yesterday saying “voters don’t want to talk about this, they’re not interested, they’re more interested in the economy.” That’s probably true of the National heartland – who wants to watch their team go down in flames?

              • gobsmacked

                Prepare your bingo cards …

                “I may have been told, it was 3 years ago, I don’t recall every single thing that has ever happened …”

                He’ll rely on waffle and hoping we’re ‘over it’.

                • politikiwi

                  And yet he would’ve had Cunliffe hanged for forgetting a form-letter he signed 11 years ago.

                  How are your double standards, Mr Key?

    • That should be game.

      The letter proves that he flat out lied, or is so incompetent as to not remember important events.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1

        Na ah, Tucker backs up the PM and says it sent it to his office not the PM :-)

        • lprent 5.2.1.1

          So what you are saying is that the PM doesn’t take responsibility for his office? What is he doing running it then?

          If he doesn’t want to run it, then he should be relieved of the unwanted responsibility?

          What do you think…. “No authority without responsibility” is the concept that comes to my mind.

          • tricledrown 5.2.1.1.1

            From the party of personal responsibility!
            Katherine Ryan said its hard to believe with such a political hot potato no one in his office would have briefed the PM!

          • JanM 5.2.1.1.2

            In fact, judging by the litany of denials over the years it appears that no-one ever tells him anything! Alternatively he may have early onset dementia :)

          • RedLogix 5.2.1.1.3

            “No authority without responsibility”

            Or another good way of expressing this is “You can delegate responsibility – but you cannot avoid accountability”.

            Mind you Key’s corporate career has well prepared him for weaseling his way out of this. He’s behaving exactly like your typical shark-suited exec – one of many I’ve seen over the years.

            • vto 5.2.1.1.3.1

              Isn’t it strange how the only things he can never recall are those which would get him into trouble.

              what a guy .. what a guy ..

              • RedLogix

                Right at a visceral level I’ve recognised Key as one of those very smooth, plausible and polished sociopaths who infest senior corporate life. Particularly the bigger overseas organisations that Key worked for.

                Your average Kiwi doesn’t get to see so many of these sharks up close and personal over an extended period of time – and is easily taken in by them.

                • Colonial Viper

                  The high power corporate, board of director types in this nation will know he is one of their tribe however – and will have recognised that from the start.

        • Tom Jackson 5.2.1.2

          Nope. He’s lying. A letter from the Ombudsman reports him talking about his “discussion with the PM”.

          I don’t blame the dude for wanting to hide the truth, after all he wouldn’t be welcome at any polo match, golf club or peasant flogging if he we were responsible for the resignation of a Nat PM.

          But he’s now been caught.

          Which rat will jump first? Darth Joyce?

        • Macro 5.2.1.3

          I’ve got a great big bridge here you can buy – going cheap – only a $1m and it’s all yours.
          Give me your bank account details and I’ll personally relieve you of that unwanted cash.
          (If you believe that bullshit from Key et al – you’ll believe anything!)

        • Bill 5.2.1.4

          It’s one thing for the likes of me to be stuck with some evil prick like JK as PM. He was elected afterall. Quite another, to in any way accept unelected employees (punters) making unilateral decisions with respect the SiS. Is that what JK wants NZ to adopt as the new normal? If so, why bother with any fucking pretense of democracy and democratic accountability?

        • politikiwi 5.2.1.5

          Even Matthew Hooton said it was impossible to imagine a situation in which the PM would not have been informed of the release of the SIS memo under the OIA.

          Hooton of Hollow Men and now Dirty Politics fame.

          BTW Hi Matthew, hope you’re having an awesome day :D

  6. swordfish 6

    I’ve set out results from the One News Colmar-Brunton Snap Poll on Dirty Politics here….http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/

    On the one hand, it’s a bit of a wake-up call to anyone who assumed there’d be an immediate shift in the polls. Just 2% – a mere 2 friggin % !!! – of Nat supporters say the scandal has negatively influenced their view of the National Party.

    On t’other hand, this issue is likely to be a slow-burner as the media momentum builds over the next few weeks (similar to Corngate in 02). According to the poll, 10% of Nat supporters say they believe Hager’s allegations and, as well as the 2% of Nats who have a more negative view of the Party, there are a further 3% of Nats who are Unsure. These larger minorities of Nats are the ones that might budge over the next few weeks as the scandal reaches a crescendo.

    But it’s quite possible that the most important electoral consequence of the affair is not so much a swing from Nat-to-Lab or Right-to-Left but rather in motivating a sizeable section of both Undecideds and Labour-leaning (erstwhile) Non-Voters to turn out on Election Day. Looks to me like the Undecideds who say their view of National has been negatively influenced by the scandal outstrips the number of Nats who have said likewise. Moreover, arguably the most intriguing figure is the 19% of Labour supporters who say they’re more likely to get out and vote as a result of the scandal.

    Also pays to remember that some previous Nat supporters may have swung away (to Lab/Green/NZF/ or into Undecided territory) between the release of Dirty Politics (and thus the onset of the scandal) and this poll. I’m thinking of the sort of voters who have been very softly-aligned to the Nats and for whom this may have been the last straw. They, of course, are invisible in this poll because they wouldn’t be included among Nat supporters.

    [Poll was carried out on August 14-15 – ie in the very early stages before people had much time to digest things]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1

      Q 4: “As a result of these allegations are you now more or less likely to vote on Election Day or have they not made much difference ?”
      Entire Sample More Likely 12% Less Likely 1% Not much diff 87%
      High More Likely – Labour Supporters 19%

      That seems significant.

      I can’t see soft voters hanging around National once Whaledump has finished with them. I suspect there is worse to come, as if what we’ve already seen isn’t bad enough.

      • Enough is Enough 6.1.1

        My gut feeling is this saga will simply put people off politics.

        However that can still help us if soft Nat voters stay at home on election day.

        • phillip ure 6.1.1.1

          i am picking the greens will be the major benificiaries from this..

          ..by election day there will be a desire for ‘new’…disdain of the old..

          ..and many soft national voters..turned off by the ongoing stench from national..

          ..could easily turn to the greens..(especially with their audited by infometrics fiscal-plan..that’s on my shortlist for ‘best move of the election award’..that fiscal-auditing..it answers more questions/uncertainties than you can poke a stick at..)

          .and as an internet/mana supporter i am hoping some of that desire for the new..

          ..will also flow that way..

          • phillip ure 6.1.1.1.1

            and i’m picking that disdain for the old..will also wash over labour..

            ..not least because of the upcoming dotcom/greenwald spooking-data-dump..

            ..i’m picking labour have every reason to be as nervous about that..

            ..as do national..

            ..i can’t see labour coming out after that dump – looking too crash-hot..

          • JanM 6.1.1.1.2

            I suspect that NZF may be the beneficiaries, actually

            • phillip ure 6.1.1.1.2.1

              i agree..i noted that elsewhere..they will hope he keeps a labour party firmly on the neo-lib path..

              ..not that they need that much urging…

    • ianmac 6.2

      Great stuff Swordfish. Thanks.

    • Interesting that Christchurch residents had the highest level of believing the ‘suggestions’ in the book (at 45% believing them).

      • swordfish 6.3.1

        Yeah, I noticed that, too (both the weak terminology: “suggestions” and the Christchurch outlier). If acceptance of the detail outlined in Hager’s book can be taken as some sort of proxy for distrust of the present Government then we may see quite a swing in Chch this election. Then again, there’s still that ambiguity I mentioned a couple of months back…http://thestandard.org.nz/puddlegum-on-christchurch/#comment-834219 (in reply to your impressive post on Chch).

        But then, of course, I say that as an ignorant Wellingtonian.

  7. Paul 7

    Doug Hefferman did not like being challenged about the huge profits Mighty River Power are making.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20146516/mighty-river-power-posts-big-profit

    The wealthy overseas shareholders who own and pay him are happy with the money they’re taking out of the country. And maybe at $ 1.49 million a year he cares more about them than NZ citizens struggling to pay their bills.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/8577916/Power-bosses-1m-plus-salaries-revealed

    And did I hear right, but was there a veiled threat of blackouts in his interview..if the Greens and Labour get into power?

    • tricledrown 7.1

      Paul the RM poll yesterday was explained by RM that the effect of Dirty politics didn’t register yet as it happened on the last couple of days of polling,while the effect of some despicable politics which no one on the left condone!
      a dead cat bounce is what this poll is!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      And maybe at $ 1.49 million a year he cares more about them than NZ citizens struggling to pay their bills.

      At $1.49m you can pretty much guarantee that he doesn’t give a fuck about NZers struggling to pay their bills. He’s far too disconnected from that reality.

      And did I hear right, but was there a veiled threat of blackouts in his interview..if the Greens and Labour get into power?

      The sociopaths are always threatening such things. Time to take our power back and bankrupt the bastards.

    • Murray Olsen 7.3

      It should be made clear to Heffernan that depriving Kiwis of the means to stay warm and, in some cases, alive, would lead swiftly to his arrest and arraignment on charges of conspiracy to do grievous bodily harm and anything else lawyers can think of. All the companies should be renationalised anyway, and parasites like him should be sent off to Hawaii to stay with Key.

  8. Ad 8

    Ipredict this morning suggests National will get 43%, Labour will get 31%.
    I am presuming New Zealand First on 6.5% represents some undecideds.

    Swordfish what is your feeling on the tracking from now?

    • swordfish 8.1

      I’ll be posting on this in the very near future, Ad. Hope you don’t mind if I keep my powder dry ’til then :smile:

      • Ad 8.1.1

        No problem

        • North 8.1.1.1

          Ready to review your hasty and rough remonstrations directed at those of us still concerned about dirty politics Ad ?

          In which you relied on the RM poll – a poll two-thirds taken before the book was even published – to say as a fait accompli that dirty politics as an issue is meaningless. Have a look up and down this thread Ad.

  9. halfcrown 9

    And did I hear right, but was there a veiled threat of blackouts in his interview..if the Greens and Labour get into power?

    Funny that, I heard exactly the same thing.

    • millsy 9.1

      Hopefully if MRP do good on Heffernan’s threat of a “generator strike” and turn the dams off, PM Cunliffe picks up the phone and tells the army to turn up to their nice shiny offices to turn them back on.

  10. Paul 10

    Power price rises and now rent rises.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11311911

    All the time piling more pressure on the poor.
    The issue of inequality and poverty is the burning issue for this election.

    • Herodotus 10.1

      Auckland landlords are hiking rents amid fears of big rates increases next year on the back of spiralling property values. – if property values increased by 33% as reported yesterday! Rates will not increase by 33%. Simply put: councils estimate their costs for the year then divide by the capital value of all residential property. So if the demoninator increases then the rate per $ decreases. We still get the same rating demand cost.
      Many in the media get caught in the “selling rent increases” that should costs increase this flows thru to rents, if that was the case why did not rents fall post GFC when interest rates dropped from 10+% to 5% ? And if it is so tough being a landlord why are investors increasing their holding % of the housing stock ? There are other decisions at play, returns, tax implications, etc

  11. crocodill 11

    The following is an unpaid, unauthorised, reluctant and unexpected political message from deep within West Auckland:

    Like many of you, I’ve been watching the development of my country head in one direction only for the past thirty years. Watching the details and turns of this election campaign, one thing is becoming clear: there is only one choice if real change is what people sort of, maybe, want. How do we get that? It’s easy, as easy as not locking your car door when you stop at the first set of lights in Manurewa.

    Labour’s policies necessarily leave the people we all wail that we care about now, behind. It’s that simple. In all fairness, they can’t fix the problem anyway, and don’t really want to either. Leaving a large and growing chunk of the population behind at least allows future middle classes the chance to avoid mental breakdowns. They’ll have someone to unload their regret and repressed self-loathing onto. Hey, I’m not saying it’s entirely wrong to choose that when the alternative can be really dangerous to the unprepared, it’s just not entirely moral either. That’s the way life goes. So no change is coming from Labour. Once upon a time, they were rightly considered passengers in the Blue Party car, but with their foot pressing the brakes occasionally. Now it’s clear that their foot is just resting beside the brake. Their policies imply they will prepare to press the economic brakes, but only if they are voted in twice and only then if nothing else comes up. The car is still headed in the same direction, though. I think that’s an accurate picture of what Labour can offer.

    National, well, their credibility is shot. Whatever they offer, we’ve all seen who they are, where they want to accelerate and how they intend to continue. There can be no more delusions of “you can be part of the team” anymore. Their newest election advertisement gives the picture of a small, unstable, defensive crew stroking off for a short trip without any equipment or supplies for a long journey or preparations for bad weather. People who vote National now are on autopilot and will never change. What more is there to say.

    The new smaller parties will not have the numbers to influence more powerful status-quo coalition partners, but they’re still useful. That’s just the facts of being a fledgling party.

    In my opinion there is only one chance to induce change. Maybe it will turn out to be change everyone eventually comes to enjoy, in the way that the old saying goes about crisis being a mix of danger and opportunity. The chance for change I can see is much like a car that blindsides you at an intersection – baam – straight in the driver’s door. You don’t feel the initial impact, you only see a smudge of colour from just over your shoulder, and then everything goes dead quiet and time slows down when you realise what’s happened, but after that, at least for a while, everything changes.

    The owners of this rude car are the only people other than National or Labour who have anywhere near enough of a clue to avoid total economic ruin while also inadvertently creating the kind of conditions required for society to break out the deadlock between left and right, right and wrong, black and white, have and have-nots. But if they do that, won’t they encourage total ruin? They will, they WILL ruin us! No they won’t. They can’t police themselves, how the hell will they police you?

    Right now, everyone in New Zealand is following the line, doing the same stuff they pappies did, same attitudes their mammies had, waddling along squealing at all the same stuff they squealing at since before I was born and no one knows how to change that, not directly. It seems that direct efforts fail. Oh sure there are a few artists and activists slogging through their own personal mudflats and finding some interesting stuff, but no one’s paying much attention to that. Boring huh? Are you guys bored with your lives yet? Do you crave the excitement that another latté just can’t offer? Want something less dangerous than a P addiction, but also a little more passive than cross-fit training? Here’s the best part: you don’t even have to give up your daily moaning! Oh boy, they’ll be plenty to moan about, I guarantee.

    The outrages will be thick and fast until you think you have no blood vessels in your head left to burst. Your wallet will take a hit like you’ve spent all night at a Belgian Beer House. Confusion about what’s right or wrong will swirl until you giggle like drunken teenagers, until finally you think, screw it, I’m doing whatever I want… and that’s where the chance for real honest change will begin.

    It will be the chance of real, honest, societal change brought about by individuals left with no choice but to do what they want, unencumbered by deference to an impossible ideology, all ideas of what life should be thoroughly and vigorously wrung out of their sleepy little heads by frustration with an administration who do not have the capacity to offer them the comfortable familiarity of cultural oppression.

    So who are these crazy folks and what kind of car do they own? Is it worth less than a BMW? Oh lord please let it be insured. Sorry, no way is it insured, well, maybe third party, if the premiums haven’t lapsed. That the car has been painted by hand with fence paint should tell you enough.

    You want change? You want the rush of your twenties and teens back again, when everything felt exciting and new and anything was possible? Want something money can’t buy? Want something that makes you feel more alive than getting the wrinkles around your eyes seen to? Do you want the risk of change or do you want to return to the slow comfortable shuffling descent into nostalgia, memories of your not very wild youth, and nodding off to the sound of talkback radio during an afternoon nap on the patio, and finally the grave?

    If you want a chance at an environment that risks real change, vote Greens. If there is no Greens vote in your electorate vote the next best thing, Mana/Internet or whoever is next on the list of crazed lefty wingnuts. Change will come in the form of a government where the Greens hold majority. The alternative is to re-live the lives of your parents, admittedly with better technology, but essentially the same life. All respect to your olds, but wouldn’t that be a waste of yours? Only one way to avoid that. Start again with a bang: vote Green.

    • Bearded Git 11.1

      “If there is no Greens vote in your electorate vote the next best thing”.

      You can PARTY VOTE for the Greens in every electorate in the country and THAT IS THE VOTE THAT COUNTS.

      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        to form a strong progressive-coalition..int/mana are an essential ingredient..

        ..the greens have to realise that int/mana are their real ideological-friends..

        ..not that (still!) neo-lib hangover bunch…

  12. Awww 12

    The whole thing is ridiculous. When rents increase, technically the value will increase (as rental income affects sale price).

    Landlords, NZ biggest beneficiaries holding an entire nation to ransom.

  13. vto 13

    It was astounding watching John Key being interviewed by Gower on tvs news last night.

    Key was angry, very very tense, and in fact out of control.

    He had no answers. None.

    Gower questioned if he would look into detail after Key said “dunno don’t have the detail”…… and Key answered ..”maybe, maybe not”…… Fuck me it was the most disturbing telling skewering moment I have ever seen in a Key interview. Stunned mullet, possum in the headlights.

    Key is on the ropes. That was a fascinating interview.

    • vto 13.1

      Here it is, at 2:02….

      http://www.3news.co.nz/Dirty-Politics-John-Key-faces-pressure/tabid/1607/articleID/357705/Default.aspx

      and even more telling is Key’s everything, his aura, his mabo, in the last question through to about 2:30 …..

      • North 13.1.1

        I regret that in this democratic nation apparently reflecting the rule of law, accountability and order – any past or present public official whom at the very moment it’s needed gives Key a semantic lifeline…….whether it be Dr Tucker with an extraordinary ‘update’ contradicting the plain meaning of his words of three years ago, or Kitteridge, or the Ombudsman…….those elevated personages I cannot unreservedly trust.

        If I’m unjustified in my discomfort I’m forced to accept that in 2011 the Minister Responsible For The SIS and the Director of the SIS routinely performed their respective roles thus – important information (even information concerning say the then Leader of the Opposition), such important information intended for the ears of the Minister, would be telephoned to an unnamed, title unknown staffer in the Minister’s office. The unnamed untitled staffer might or might not pass such important information on to the Minister Responsible For The SIS. Maybe not even mention it to other staffers in the Minister’s office. The director would not check or seek confirmation of receipt. No one, not a soul would keep a written record.

        Mmmm…….accepting the latter scenario as seemingly is required of me……..there emerges the prima facie appearance of a big fat banana republic.

        Cunliffe is right…….it beggars belief.

        Ha ! RNZ 5.30 news…….apparently the Minister Responsible For The SIS was away on holiday in Hawaii at the time. For “big fat banana…..” read “big fat pineapple……”. Can only mean this. The staffer, chief of staff, whomsoever left in charge by the Minister is gonna get the rough end of one of the latter right up him/her

        Name him/her !

    • @ vto..i agree that is a must-watch..

      ..he had all the airs/graces of a mobster taking/pleading the fifth..

    • Ffloyd 13.3

      I tried to play the video back on my tablet and it went through in short stop and start jerky movements. Several times it halted on key and some of his expressions were very telling. At one stage he looked close to tears. In another, his eyes were rolled up so you could barely see them. In another his top lip was curled right up. In others his anger was highly visible. It was fascinating to watch these frozen expressions as it gave time to actually study his facial expressions for sometimes at least thirty seconds. Very telling. Also, if Karol is thinking about doing the transcript on this most embarrassing stand up to date, good luck with that one. Key seems to think that if he doesn’t open his mouth properly while speaking that he can be seen to be answering the questions without any chance of anyone actually understanding WHAT he has said. Collins MUST have some dirt on him. The man is a gibbering wreck.

      • yeshe 13.3.1

        We all believe Collins has something very big on Key so he won’t fire her.

        How about this — is it actually Slater who has something very big on Key and is running protection for Collins ? Let’s remember who Slater’s father is and was in the Nat machinery.

        Cameron Slater was on screen saying ‘everyone’ in politics should be afraid of him ( TV3 yesterday I think but can’t remember link as so many going on) …

      • Tom Bradford 13.3.2

        As I’ve argued previously on this site, John Key as Prime Minister has always just been about John Key the narcissistic ego-maniac. He only ever wanted to be Prime Minister because, like Mallory’s reason for climbing Everest, “it’s there.” It’s the top job in New Zealand so, naturally, he was entitled to it and he’d made enough money for National to be impressed enough to give it to him.

        Having got the job and confirmed his natural superiority he had little clear idea what to do with it – hence the six years of rudderless drifting fortuitously supported generously by the financial injection from the Christchurch earthquake and the advantage of being a primary producer of foodstuffs that the world – especially a momentarily resurgent China – is desperate for even in a financial crisis. His one and only policy initiative was the end-to-end walkway. For the rest of the time he merely played National Party internal politics by appointing the ‘right’ people to Ministerships and letting them get on with it while he could strut around the stage like Idi Amin in his Field-Marshall’s uniform soaking up the adulation and pretending, even to himself, that it was his due.

        Now the wheels have come off. He is for the first time being expected to actually earn his money and do his job and the wherewithall isn’t there. The most terrifying thing a man like Key can experience is his own ego being dented, his being forced to realised that the ‘great man’ image he had come himself to believe in is false. Key is facing, perhaps experiencing, a psychologial crisis – he is like the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy pulls back the curtain – and likely a major part of that will be an initial refusal to admit the reality even to himself. His splutterings and incoherences to the press are as much an attempt to cling to the fraud for his own sake, to preserve his own ego, as it is to convince us.

        Expect increasingly frantic attempts to deny reality and, very likely, a refusal to acknowledge what everyone else can see like a six-year-old denying a raid on the jam-pot after being caught red-handed. A break-down forced by the increasingly difficult task of reconciling the dichotomy in his own mind is not impossible. Collins may be able to hide in a hole and hope it all blows over but Key can’t. Perhaps his best bet at the moment is for the National heirarchy to become alarmed at the damage he is doing to the brand and come to his rescue by twisting his arm into ‘standing down’, ostensibly through the application of high ethical principles a’la Nixon, so that he can assuage his ego by blaming his ‘downfall’ on others.

        What troubles me deeply is the possibility that he might surivive this and be voted back into power in September by the lunatic right. His ego will be assuaged and re-inforced – he is literally unimpeachable. His almost divine right to rule would be confirmed, in his own mind. While not wishing to draw too strong a parallel I think we need to remember that most of the great Dictators of the last Century were initially given power by popular vote rather than seizing it – a fact that seems to have confirmed their own opinion of themselves as being great leaders by birth and entitlement, who eventually brought disaster on their people through their own fanatical confidence in their ‘confirmed’ leadership genius.

      • karol 13.3.3

        I was planning to finish that first standup from last week when Key seemed so shaken. it’s now becoming…. which video should I transcribe next?

    • Rosie 13.4

      “That was a fascinating interview.”

      I thought so too. Very telling. And Gower finally disgusted with Key enough to challenge him. Better late than never.

  14. ianmac 14

    Warren Tucker has written that he informed John Key directly about the SIS release of OIA.
    John Key’s story is very different.
    As heard on National Radio this morning.

    • vto 14.1

      Hard evidence that Key has lied, again.

      What will Key do, again?

      All of his quiver of pathetic defences (dunno, can’t recall, pretty relaxed, screw nose up, sneer, left wing conspiracy, and now also glare with thinly veiled rage and no answer) have been shot. If he tries firing any of those arrows again he must surely be openly laughed at…… and people like Key genuinely, when it comes down to it, hate being laughed at ….

      … the last years I have often wondered if at some point Key will actually lose it and blow his top….

      • disturbed 14.1.1

        FJK – He will repeat the historic words that Nixon did, (as he shakes head)

        “The country has a right to know if their P.M. is a crook”

        “Well I’m not a crook”. Ha ha ha.

    • veutoviper 14.2

      Link to a copy of Tucker’s letter to Felix Marwick dated Nov 2011 stating that Tucker had kept Key nformed is in my comment at 5.1.1.2 above.

      • ianmac 14.2.1

        veutoviper Sorry about that. I missed your earlier comments. But we must agree that this could add another dart into the PM’s credibility.

    • that’d be ‘snap!’..

  15. tricledrown 15

    RNZ this morning Collins wouldn’t front so RNZ went to her electorate not 1 person backed her many
    asking her to resign!

  16. re that national eminem-rip-off ad..in the skiff..

    ..i can’t get rid of this mental image of brownlee/collins/bennett/joyce..

    ..all sitting in a skiff..

    ..with key at the tiller..

    ..and things leaning/tilting dangerously..

    ..(and maybe a very large seaborne mammal nearby..?..blowing stuff all over them..?)

    (c’mon cartoonists..!..)

    ..(and..)

    ..brownlee and bennett..sitting in a skiff..

    ..down it went..with barely a whiff..

  17. Te Reo Putake 17

    Dunnokeyo donkey deep?

    SIS boss wrote to journo Felix Marwick confirming that he had told Key that he intended releasing the Goff info to Slater. Key has consistently denied knowing anything about it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311764

  18. redfred 18

    Letter from Warren Tucker ex-SIS chief stating he told Key about Goff declassification
    Caught Red Handed lying

    tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/phil-goff-claims-proof-pm-not-telling-truth-over-sis-documents-video-6061262

  19. tvone chooses to run the infamous british benificiary-bashing reality-show..

    ..in the run-up to the election..

    ..agenda..?..much..?

  20. fambo 20

    Interesting read – “John Key and Andrew Krieger and the attack on the New Zealand dollar.”

    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/would-you-have-voted-john-key5.pdf

    • ianmac 20.1

      Is that from 2008 or a recent post re Key Krieger?

    • nadis 20.2

      I wouldn’t get excited about that – there is so much in there that is incorrect or ridiculous. I worked overseas for global investment banks from 1991 until 2008, worked on a trading desk that covered hedge funds (including LTCM, Moore Capital, Quantum (Soros) and numerous others) until 2002, and after that was involved in structured credit (backed by things like sub prime mortgages). Casually reading that research I can see some things that are true, but many points that are deeply wrong, badly misinterpreted or inconsequential.

      The real story is what the real story was. No conspiracy, just the same thing that happens with regularity – lax lending and risk control standards, bad incentives for staff that result in inappropriate risk taking, too much leverage and an obvious market response as banks reduce risk.

      • fambo 20.2.1

        thanks

      • RedLogix 20.2.2

        And I very distinctly recall John Key (who routinely downplayed his role at Merrill Lynch) standing in a picture for some financial trade magazine – with the title on the door “Vice-President New Debt Products” (or something very similar IIRC).

        No conspiracy, just the same thing that happens with regularity – lax lending and risk control standards, bad incentives for staff that result in inappropriate risk taking, too much leverage and an obvious market response as banks reduce risk.

        Maybe it would be hard to point to a smokey back room where the wide boys cooked up an actual deal, shook hands and downed single-malts afterwards – but there is no question that the banking industry lobbied very long and hard to have those lending and risk controls removed. The ‘laxity’ you so offhandedly refer to was no accident.

        And John Key in my opinion was was of many senior people in it up to their snouts.

  21. disturbed 21

    Dirty Politics: Free speech & a policy-free election
    by Wayne Mapp
    “Is the Dirty Politics debate making a mockery of the manifestos? And should authors have the right to right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?”

    Mapp asks do they have the right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?

    He presents the argument that we should have free speech but does want a policy debate during this election.

    We agree, but as National has broken all rules during the last election to smear the Labour leader using illegally obtained fast tracked SIS information to conduct that election rather than discussing policies, well we have to say why did National do last election what Wayne Mapp is asking we not do this election?
    Did National have the right to use material that’s obtained by criminal means?

    Judith Collins has gone to ground and press cant find her, while John Key wont take press questions as of 9am this morning (like Nixon did) we need to find out what this Government’s policies are on law and how they intend conducting themselves going forward.

    That is another policy we believe to be as important as Health, housing Schools, transport, and poverty.

    • gobsmacked 21.1

      On Radio Live now, Sean Plunkett says that (according to his sources, but not confirmed) Judith Collins has refused to resign, even though she’s been asked to.

      That’s his story, make of it what you will.

      • Puddleglum 21.1.1

        Next step being ‘fired’ then?

        When a resignation is requested it is usually done so on the understanding that, if not provided, the person will be unceremoniously removed.

      • Rosie 21.1.2

        Really? That’s interesting gobby. If it were true, is there someone other than the PM, that can ask her to resign?

        Key has been busy denying any wrong doing on her part, and in fact seems a bit scared of her, and as was discussed above by yeshe, many are given to the idea that Collins holds a huge amount of power over him possibly due to some knowledge she has (and Slater?) that would destroy him.

        IF she was asked to resign I’m wondering if it were someone else, in an effort to “inoculate” him from any fall out, that would do it? Does someone such as the GG have the authority to intervene if a Minister refuses to stand down when asked?

  22. vto 22

    In Southland the Regional Council is imposing rules around the use of certain hill country by farmers. This is of course to begin controlling and cleaning up the sediment runoff which has clogged waterways and estuaries in Southland to such an extent that these estuaries are under threat of death i.e. life in them will end.

    So what is the farmers response? This…. in this article … http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/10405430/No-more-rules-please-say-farmers

    “”I don’t like rules,” Lumsden farmer Willie Menlove said.

    “I’ve farmed for more than 20 years without these sorts of rules and I’d prefer education to be the end goal.”

    So there we have it – no rules for years and the rivers and estuaries get killed dead thanks to the farmers. And they think the same system should continue ………. I shake my head in utter disbelief

  23. Young Nats in Waikato are apparently buying up copies of Dirty Politics and burning them – if true I wonder if these numpties realise the significance of their action? What would John Key’s Jewish, Labour voting mother who fled the Nazis have thought about it?

    And that epitome of smug Natiness – whatshisname Ansell on RNZ to answer questions about the Labour and National adverts. He said the former portrays a ‘load of no-hopers standing around asking for things’ while the latter is a group of ‘office types up early in the morning going out there and doing things’- or words to that effect. It was a party political broadcast for the National Party – about as openly and nastily partisan as you could get.

    I wonder if I could sue him for the dreadful indigestion I got after listening to it?

    • Puckish Rogue 23.1

      Its not true, it was started from a facebook post by a NZFirst member and was picked up by the MSM, you can read the rest of it here:

      http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/compare-contrast-book-burning-right-way/

      However it does reiterate the point that the MSM will print what sells not what actually happened

      • TeWhareWhero 23.1.1

        Thank you for pointing that out PR – I thought it was likely to be a dig at the sorts of things Young Nats might do in retaliation for effigy burning and the like. I won’t follow it up on Slater’s site because I have just showered and being an environmentalist I try to limit how much hot water I use each day.

        • Puckish Rogue 23.1.1.1

          I have shares in NZs power companies so I suggest you should have more showers, the dividends are excellent :-)

          • vto 23.1.1.1.1

            attitude of the fat slug and Jason ede and aaron bhatnagar and aaron Gilmore and john key continues to be put on display for all to see ….

            keep it up mr ugly

      • freedom 23.1.2

        Puckish Rogue

        Because of the environment these events are reported to have occurred in, this story will probably remain in the ‘rumour to some, reality to others’ file.

        I have personally seen statements (unpublished and independently sourced) from people employed at the University, which state that Aaron Letcher not only confirmed he is implicated in Hager’s book (although not by name) but he was also bragging in the WSU office about purchasing a large number of the books. One of those statements claim Aaron Letcher said the money for the books’ purchase came from a senior Nat outside of the Young Nats organisation.

        For Slater (or whoever is writing his stuff) to state ‘Aaron bought 6 copies only’,
        is as you often like to point out, only one side of the story.

        The people involved have requested their statements not be released and that they retain their anonymity because quite simply they fear for their jobs, and unlike the Minister of Justice, my word actually means something so I will not even tell you their job titles. The following is a short quote which I received when pressing for more detail. When read in context against the predictable denials, it says a lot about the veracity of the actual claims.

        “You can take the gist of it- as long as I’m not implicated because, as you can imagine, our workplace is pretty tense right now.”

        At present, despite numerous enquiries, there is no physical evidence available about the burning of the books. I doubt even Aaron Letcher would have been stupid enough to video that event.

        • Puckish Rogue 23.1.2.1

          You misunderstand me, I care not how many books he bought only that they wern’t for a book burning as its the connatations I object to

          also that it didn’t happen is quite important as well

        • McFlock 23.1.2.2

          While I’m sure that every copy that nats buy is destined to be closely read and preserved for posterity, I don’t really care either way. The more copies they buy, the more copies will be printed, the longer the book will be available for purchase.

  24. Puckish Rogue 24

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/polls/10406853/National-strong-in-latest-poll

    So getting away from this (lets face it disheartning result) most recent of polls which I was going to talk about I decided to watch Labours and Nationals election campaign videos instead and comment on them.

    Labour 5.5/10, generic in that it could have been any party in oppositions (especially the Greens) video and right at the end the zoom out shoot was not a good choice as Cunliffe looked uncomfortable standing there, probably should have stayed with the close up shot

    National 7.5/10 Very good start with the rowing eight and with what they’ve done getting NZ through one of the most difficult periods in recent history but let down at the end by the thing with the shot the left going nowhere because we all know the left coilition is a dogs breakfast but shouldn’t have given them any oxygen at all, I would have left that shot out.

    Or could be 4.5/10 if National is sued for the music being too close to the original

    • gobsmacked 24.1

      The only disheartening thing about that poll is finding out how many right-wingers can’t read simple dates.

    • Molly 24.2

      “Or could be 4.5/10 if National is sued for the music being too close to the original”

      … and that is pretty much it in a nutshell.

      In one phrase you admit that there is an original that has been used (and barely changed) – and your personal rating is adjusted only if there is legal action.

      A couple of points:
      1. National has spoken against negative electioneering – and are the only ones doing it – on an official ad, no less.
      2. Surely National has some creative artistic types in the membership (and I’m talking musos, not creative accountants, strategists or scriptwriters here) that could have penned an original and avoided the comparison with Eminem? No?

      As has been mentioned before, I agree that the image of freshed-faced rowers enthusiastically looking forward while putting such enthusiasm into going backwards – a really good analogy for where the current National government is taking us.

    • You_Fool 24.3

      ” the left coilition is a dogs breakfast”

      Not at all like the right, I mean National/Act/United Future/Conservatives/Maori Party/New Zealand First are all going to be pulling the same way all the time, cause they have shown that time and time again. Not like that 3 headed monster on the left who have nothing in common at all…

      • Puckish Rogue 24.3.1

        National/Act/United Future/Conservatives/Maori Party/New Zealand First

        Considering how stable National/Act/United Future/Maori Party have been I’m looking forward to three more years but if NZFirst manage to get in you can be sure whoever they go with won’t include the Conservatives or the Greens

        • thatguynz 24.3.1.1

          Stable? Surely you jest? One of your coalition partners was convicted of a crime and another was stood down as a minister for refusing to comply with Key’s instructions around the leak of the Kitteridge (sp?) report. And that’s before you get to Nick Smith, Maurice Williamson et al. Clearly you have a different view of what “stable” actually means..

  25. marsman 25

    A still shot image of the skiff in National’s slick Election Video needs to be made, with the words- ‘Vote National We’ll sell you down the river’ blazoned across it. Wish I had the know-how to do it. Be great for Facebook etc

  26. There’s a nice spoof of the Nat ad that Whatshisname Ansell was promoting so fervently on RNZ this morning –
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37vxczp5hwY&app=desktop

    The Nat Ad is a bit ham fisted: ‘fit young office types’ rowing from the left to the right of the screen in a coordinated and professional manner in blue singlets and with blue oars – oh the subtlety of it! – will appeal to affluent Ruralnats and Metronats as rowing is a sport of the elite and, because NZ does well in the sport internationally, it will also resonate with the Patrinats.

    Then – oh such fun! – they contrast the elite in their speedy boat with a leaky old boat rowed by a bunch of disorganised and uncoordinated people dressed in red and green for those who are so dumb they have to have the political symbolism spelled out for them.

    It’s one step away from slapstick – and is a slap in the face of most NZers who could not afford the fees to get into schools which have successful rowing programmes – let alone afford the additional fees.

    That boat the young fit office types are rowing towards their affluent future costs in the region of $50,000.

    At St Bedes – Gerry Brownlee’s alma mater – rowing fees are in the region of $175 a month plus uniform plus costs of getting to competitions ….

    PS. I hope this is not a measure of St Bede’s academic prowess….from their website ….
    “Can I pay me fees off over a long period of time?”

    • nadis 26.1

      you mean expensive private schools with rowing programs, schools like:

      Aotea College, Aparima College, Aquinas College, Ashburton College, Auckland Grammar School, Avonside Girls High School, Baradene College, Bethlehem College, Burnside High School, Cambridge High School, Cashmere High School, Christchurch Boys High School, Christchurch Girls High School, Craighead Diocesan School, Cromwell College, Dunstan High School, Epsom Girls Grammar, Francis Douglas Memorial College, Gisborne Boys High School, Gisborne Girls High School, Glendowie College, Hamilton Boys High School, Hamilton Girls High School, Hastings Girls High School, Hauraki Plains College, Hillcrest High School, Huanui College, Hurunui College, James Hargest College, John McGlashan College, John Paul College, Kapiti College, Katikati College, Kavanagh College, Kings High School, Lindisfarne College, Liston College, Macleans College, Mana College, Marian College, Marist College, Marlborough Boys College, Marlborough Girls College, Massey High School, Mt Albert Grammar School, Mt Aspiring College, Napier Boys High School, Napier Girls High School, Nelson College, Nelson College For Girls, Onewhero Area School, Onslow College, Otago Boys High School, Otumoetai College, Paraparaumu College, Pukekohe Christian School, Pukekohe High School, Queen Charlotte College, Queen Margaret College, Queens High School, Rangiora High School, Roncalli College, Rosehill College, Rotorua Girls High School, Rotorua Lakes High School, Sacred Heart College (Auckland), Sacred Heart College (Lower Hutt), Sacred Heart Girls College (Hamilton), Sacred Heart Girls College (NP), Sancta Maria College, Scots College, Shirley Boys High School, Southland Boys High School, Southland Girls High School, St Bedes College, St Johns College (Hamilton), St Kevins College, St Margarets College, St Patricks College, St Pauls Collegiate School, St Peters School, St Thomas Of Canterbury, Takapuna Grammar School, Tauranga Boys College, Tauranga Girls College, Tawa College, Te Awamutu College, Te Kauwhata College, Timaru Boys High School, Timaru Girls High School, Trident High School, Twizel Area School, Verdon College, Villa Maria College, Waikato Diocesan School, Waimea College, Waitaki Boys High School, Waitaki Girls High School, Wakatipu High School, Wanganui Collegiate School, Wanganui High School, Wellington College, Wellington East Girls College, Wellington Girls College, Wentworth College, Western Heights High School, Westlake Boys High School, Westlake Girls High School, Whakatane High School

      125 schools entered the 2014 secondary school rowing champs – I think I took most of the private schools but not integrated schools out of the above list. Rowing may be an expensive sport, but its not only elite schools that offer it.

      • Puddleglum 26.1.1

        Are you trying to prove TeWhareWhero’s point? Decile ratings would be interesting.

        From Christchurch I don’t see Aranui High School (2), Linwood College (2), Hornby High School (3), Hilmorton High School (5), Papanui High School (6), Hagley Community College (5), Riccarton High School (7), Mairehau High School (4) … and, the cases that prove the rule, Christ’s College (10), St Andrews (10) – in both these cases they may be ones that you knew were private schools and so removed?

        Compared to: Burnside (8), Christchurch Boys’ (9), Christchurch Girls’ (9), Cashmere (8), St Bede’s (9), Shirley Boys’ (6), St Margaret’s (Private and 10), Marian College (7) …

        • nadis 26.1.1.1

          The point i was making was that TWW was making ridiculous sweeping statements to provide tenuous support to a point he is making. Over-reaching much.

          • TeWhareWhero 26.1.1.1.1

            Nadis – why do you assume I am a man?

            I referred to schools with successful rowing programmes …..

            Even John Ansell acknowledges ‘the elitism of rowing’.

            An eights boat new costs in excess of $50,000; fours $29,000; pairs $19,000 singles $13,000- and then there’s the cost of the massive trailers and towing vehicles. It’s a hugely expensive sport.

            That’s fine – it’s also a fantastic sport and good on NZ’s rowers for doing so well internationally.

            The use of rowing as an image was not accidental albeit completely at odds with the reality of National in government.

            Rowing depends on cooperation, coordination and balance, careful pacing and timing of effort.

            All the spin in the world can’t change the evidence of National’s deep factionalism, lack of leadership and short-termism.

      • tricledrown 26.1.2

        Just about all these children will be from well off families!
        Rowing New Zealand receives millions of taxpayers dollars god forbid the right finding out about subsidies to a minority sport!

  27. Puckish Rogue 27

    What do people think of the Internet Party, sorry got that wrong, I mean Krim Dot Con threatning Radiolive because they have the temerity to talk to one of KDCs employees?

    I wonder what Laila “bought and paid for” Harre thinks? Probably ok with it as a boatload of money does tend to ease the conscience

    • tricledrown 27.1

      Desperate flailing from lone blogger!
      living of the dead cat bounce!
      All the the rats have jumped ship
      puckish rogue knows his party is out of vogue
      now his tactic is to shift the blame
      which looks rather lame !
      Defending his boss because no one else is not even GOS!
      muddying waters with his dross!

      • Puckish Rogue 27.1.1

        There once was a lady from Ealing, that had an incredible feeling, she lay on her back and opened her….I forget the rest

        I concede your ability to make rhymes is greater then mine

        • tricledrown 27.1.1.1

          More very bad PR. you should have given up while you Perceived Rongly you were a head.
          time to lay down your keyboard have a cup of tea and off to bed!
          Sexist Jokes are out of Fashion for that silly joke above I hope you receive a severe tongue lashing

          • Puckish Rogue 27.1.1.1.1

            I have been a naughty boy…

            • Chooky 27.1.1.1.1.1

              John Key stood on the burning deck
              Whence all NACTs but he had fled;
              The Hager flame that lit the battle’s wreck
              Shone round him o’er the dead.

              Slater stood on the burning deck
              His pocket full of crackers
              Someone came and lit a match
              And burned off both his knackers

              John Banks stood on the burning deck
              Picking his nose like mad,
              He rolled it into little balls
              And flicked it at his dad.

              Cameron stood on the burning deck
              Playing a game of cricket,
              A hack flew down his trouser leg
              And hit his middle wicket

              Judith stood on the burning deck
              Her back was to the mast
              She would not move a single step
              Till Whale Oil had passed

              Judith stood on a burning deck while looking at the river
              She gave a cough and out it shot a lump of meatty liver!!

          • The Al1en 27.1.1.1.2

            “Sexist Jokes are out of Fashion”

            That’s what they told kimmy.
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311535

        • McFlock 27.1.1.2

          The story is probably along the lines of:
          There once was a lady from Ealing, that had an incredible feeling, she lay on her back and opened her … electoral roll registration letter, and thereby realised she’d be in a position to help vote the corrupt bastards out on 20 september.

          Neither rhymes nor scans, but it has a happy ending.

        • McFlock 27.1.1.3

          A wealthy scoundrel from York
          required a barrel of pork
          the degenerate story
          involved a party vote: tory
          “The resht of the country get forked!”

        • McFlock 27.1.1.4

          The government’s morals bereft
          there is a solution most deft
          to avoid such dejection
          on the day of election
          remember to party-vote “left”

    • puckish rogue..

      ..on the shortlist for a ‘boy stood on the burning deck’-award..

      ..’i am with you..!..my captain..!’..

  28. Once Was Tim 28

    A question:
    Amongst the constitutional experts amongst posters/contributors/commenters here …..

    Does anyone know if the GG has the power to rescind ministerial warrants, and under what circumstances?
    I’m casting my mind back to the Whitlam-Kerr situation in OZ of course, however one would think that GG would be having some ‘in-depth’ discussions with Madge about now.

    Longer term, I’d hope that the result of all this will not just be to change a corrupt government, but also to address constitutional matters affecting our fragile demockracy (going forward, to coin a phrase, so to speak, as a matter of fact, actually)

    • yeshe 28.1

      Looking forward to ‘expert’ answers .. good you asked the question this morning.

      Let’s remember GG Jerry Mateparae was head of GCSB but ignominiously shoved upwards to GG to install Key’s no-I-don’t-know-him-very-well buddy Fletcher in his place.

      I always took this to mean Jerry Mateparae could not be manipulated in the ways required by Key under NSA instructions.

      Was asking some questions along these lines yesterday .. here’s hoping GG Jerry can keep his respected personal integrity intact through the coming days.

      • Once Was Tim 28.1.1

        +1
        incidentally, I was a little suspicious of GG’s appointment and capabilities initially, however after having met him briefly, I changed my mind.

    • Rosie 28.2

      I am also curious about the authority of the GG to intervene in a situation like Collins’, where she is wedged to her office chair despite all the odds, and asked that question above.

      • yeshe 28.2.1

        the new whaledump is kind of gonna find key wedged in his office chair too !!

      • Once Was Tim 28.2.2

        We’re thinking along the same lines @ Rosie.
        Something is really fucked with our uni-cameral system under Madge if there is a total absence of such checks and balances. If not the GG – maybe the Chief Justice? I’m curious to know from an expert.
        It certainly makes it very easy for NZ to be ‘used’ as an experiment in advancing certain agendas – and that’s not advancing any conspiratorial theory either – merely that if the GG/Chief Justice are so neutered as to be useless when an obviously corrupted regime acts in an anti-democratic fashion, we’ve been reliant on SFA for a very long time.

        I sincerely hope Gerry is thinking long and hard. Unfortunately I agree with the morning prayers PuckishRogue/fizz ‘spinline learner’ that he “is a good man”, not just having briefly met him, but from his staff too. Actually my initial cynicism came from ‘the military wing’ of the extended family

  29. Puckish Rogue 29

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/a_journalist_on_the_dirty_politics_book.html

    • Best thing i’ve seen written about the brouhaha thus far
    • Ant 29.1

      LOL the public interest of a potential story about a police officer speeding to KFC is equated to Hager’s Dirty Politics.

      The phrase “never go full retard” comes to mind.

      • Puckish Rogue 29.1.1

        I’m guessing its more to do with getting the other side of the story so as to get the full picture

        • Once Was Tim 29.1.1.1

          You mean as in getting the ‘fair and balanced’ story huh? “the OTHER side?” The one that’s on the “other” side of the same coin? The one that’s not “your” people but “our” people’s side? The one that’s IF your not with us THEN you must be against us?
          Please explain …
          actually no don’t, once again I’m breaking my self-imposed rule of not feeding a fundy/cultist rote-learned “our kind of people”

  30. ianmac 30

    Just listened/watched David Cunliffe being interviewed by the Rachel Smalley, Audrey Young, Fran O’sullivan and ?
    Very impressed with David’s coping and answering with not very friendly interviewers. Every fact at his fingertips and concise and personable.
    Rating 9 out of 10.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1501138&gal_cid=1501138&gallery_id=144938

  31. disturbed 31

    “Young Nat’s buying up Hager books and burning them is similar to NAZI Germany”

    I was so shocked to hear this and no Nat’s have denied this so we post our thoughts on this further gross issue as another election issue of National’s claim to be above Dirty politics.

    This John Key Government has modelled itself alongside the 1933 NAZI party propaganda machine.

    It’s mandate given by Hitler and skilfully executed by The Hitler’s chosen Minister of Public Enlightenment & Propaganda the ruthless Mr Joseph Goebbels.

    Read the similarities here.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbels.html

  32. greywarbler 32

    A paltry $24 million it will bring in to increase the quota for orange roughy and hoki. There are warnings about killing the fisheries golden goose but no this government is like Mr Creosote – just a wafer more, just a tiny bit more, you can manage it. No way could they stand up like real men of NZ and say it would be imprudent to increase.

    Radio nz – The government has increased the amount of Hoki and Orange Roughy which can be caught by fishing companies, in a move estimated to be worth $24 million.

  33. greywarbler 33

    And talking about real NZ – is this what we are thinking?

    National reckons we will go to hell in a hand basket (faster) if it isn’t returned, Labour is indulging in its traditional display of amnesia and is promising to spend we don’t have on additional lashings of social welfare, the Greens are undertaking to save the planet at our vast expense with no regard for how we are going to earn our living, the Maori Party and Labour are engaging in their own tit for tat, NZ First is raising the spectre of the Yellow Peril, ACT is counting on Epsom electors casting their votes strategically, Internet Mana is preaching values when it doesn’t have any, the Conservatives are offering a return to old-fashioned values, and a few loopy new ones, and UnitedFuture quietly maintains its confidence in the voters of Ohariu.

    There’s nothing much new in any of this, but then much of the posturing and faux outrage is for the benefit of a select few, the swinging voter.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503399&objectid=11311031

    It’s a great rant but more sound and fury signifying nothing really. How can we move this pedalcar along if we don’t all put some energy into moving it. What we actually need is to model ourselves on The Luggage in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld stories. Lots of little legs, fast moving, fast thinking, on the ball, even prescient, strangely knowing and always in the right place, no matter what happens. And with hidden depths that can produce whatever is needed at any point in time. All we are at present is sentient and sometimes I wonder about that…..zzzzz

  34. yeshe 34

    new Whaledump 2 mins ago ..

    https://twitter.com/whaledump

    seems to be further proof of Key’s lies re SIS release .. this time via Ombudsman’s office …

  35. Plan B 35

    Labour attacks should switch to what a mess the next three years will be with a rudderless, factionalized, legally challenged National Government limping on for three more years. It will be a mess. Because this does not all go away on the 20th of Sept. They will be in court, they will be tearing themselves apart.

    This has blown up because of internal rivalries inside National, that will only get worse

    • which mob-faction is bennett in..?..the joyceies or the collins-gang..?

      ..or is she rowing her own skiff..?..(as it were..)..

      ..and one would guess there are now some regrets around that rally around the key..campaign-strategy..?

      ‘hold him in yr arms..and you can feel his disease..come together..right now..around key..!’..’

  36. joe90 36

    While the outrage over the killing of American James Foly grows the attempted assassination of Mohammed Deif which killed his wife and child gets a pass.

    AlDalou Family house was targeted by 5 GBU28 bombs. The “Guided Bomb Unit 28″ is a 5,000pound laser-guided “bunker busting” bomb made in USA

    https://twitter.com/Rajaiabukhalil/statuses/501892451401879552

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28862595

    http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/40876-140820-analysis-is-israel-s-assassination-policy-paying-off

    • vto 36.1

      Did the mother and child get their heads severed by the US bomb?

      • phillip ure 36.1.1

        i have been somewhat gobsmacked by the media-obama reactions to this beheading..(what is an act of barbarism..pure and simple..)

        ..but where is their outrage at the innocent men/women/children blown apart by obama with his drones..

        ..their deaths wd barely get him walking off the golf-course..

        ..let alone fronting up with a quivering-lip indignation routine..

        ..the cognitive-dissonance in both obama..and that media..is very very strong…

        ..both actions are at least as barbaric as each other..

      • joe90 36.1.2

        Did the mother and child get their heads severed by the US bomb?

        5 GBU28 bombs – yes, most probably dismembered.

        edit:

        http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20072014/#comment-851787

        • vto 36.1.2.1

          That’s barbaric.

          It is no wonder that these other people respond to the US in kind when their wives and children get dismembered in such large numbers.

          How barbaric is the US?

  37. Pete 37

    Labour have made some good promises for Dunedin today – a $250 million promise to rebuild Dunedin hospital, keep Invermay open and reopen and upgrade Hillside.

  38. Thank you Rosie – another image to divert me: ‘Judith Collins wedged into her office chair’ – holding on to the arms like grim death – ‘you’ll have to carry me out’!

  39. tricledrown 39

    TWW if she goes he goes

  40. tricledrown 40

    GG looking very jaded to today looks like Collins did the other day Key did yesterday

  41. Puckish Rogue 41

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1408/S00346/green-partys-own-auditor-of-their-budget-finds-it-dodgy.htm

    This is why the Greens should not be allowed anywhere near the finances, what will the Greens answer to this be? Either raise the taxes even more or just wheel out the printing presses no doubt…no sorry the answer wil be “green economy”

    • aerobubble 41.1

      The US is still printing it. China is still being paid with it. China is still buying up our assets cutting off the future ability of NZ to earn our way.

      Worse. China under went a baby boom due to the year of the dragon. Its demand for milk is dropping and its growth of its own production and ownership of our farmland is up. Plus now we hear that the EU have removed restrictions on milk production…

      …dairy is dead. National want to tempt yet more young NZ to get into debt buying their own farm and spend up millions to switch to dairy, and support the existing farmers in pollution. Pollution that should they invest a small amount, they could use the effluent on their own farms instead of expensive fertilizers.

      But no, its just National’s stylized brand of letting the rot set in that has become beloved by so many National supporters.

    • dv 41.2

      PR
      Current NZ debt under Natz
      NZ$ 85,813,499,368

  42. aerobubble 42

    School hair? Churches use to have huge influence on society. It seems a Catholic School wants to once again extend its influence outside its boundaries and into the surrounding society. Sure asking a student to straighten their hair, or tie it up, is fine in my view as the student can come Friday dreadlock their hair up all they like. What a School, religious or not, should not be able to do is deny a student freedom of expression outside their school hours, that is what forcing a kid to cut their hair does. Take the Sikh community, or a kid brought up as a Rastafarian, hair length is prequiste for their expression. So the excuse that because this is a ‘special’ religious school should have extramural rights is shocking, and surprising also given Catholic recent history of deliberately abusing rights of children in their care. i.e. the expectation would be they would be more inclined to find tolerant ways forward that listened and heard community points of view.

  43. Puckish Rogue 43

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10406760/PMs-spy-denials-backed-by-Ombudsman

    • Not looking good for the left on this one, another allegation batted away
  44. Chooky 44

    Prof Michael Hudson on EU…Europe and Ukraine controlled by bankers and austerity..hope this is not the real policy agenda of the NACTS…

    http://rt.com/shows/boom-bust/181508-us-housing-market-eu/

  45. ianmac 45

    John Key’s popularity dives by 8.5 points
    PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER

    John Key 64.8 (down 8.5)
    David Cunliffe 14.6 (up 4.1)
    Winston Peters 5.1 (down 0.4)
    Russel Norman 3.5 (up 1.5)
    David Shearer 1.5 (down 0.7)
    Helen Clark 1.4 (up 0.9)
    Jacinda Ardern 1 (-0.4)
    Phil Goff 1 (up 0.7)

    • The poll of 750 respondents was conducted between August 14 and August 20 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.6 per cent.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11312362

  46. Paul 46

    The times, they are a changing.

    Citizens challenge Key on his pr walk tour of Christchurch….

    ‘PM on the back foot during Christchurch visit’

    ‘A woman asked the Prime Minister why terminally-ill, elderly and vulnerable people were still waiting for EQC claims to be settled.
    Mr Key asked for details, saying he would raise the matter with EQC.
    The woman, who declined to be named, told media afterwards: “He had absolutely no answers.”‘

    and..
    ‘”Isn’t it time we got a new prime minister?” one woman boldly stepped up to ask the encumbent.
    “I hope not,” Mr Key replied.’

    and…
    ‘As he strode on, two female radio reporters were talking, evidently blocking his way.
    “I’ll shove you out of the way … you’re just part of the scummy media,” said Mr Key in a joke that seemed to fall flat.’

    and…
    ‘He was then taken to a meeting at the Christchurch Yacht Club with the Coastal Pathway group, where more disgruntled locals awaited him.
    “When are you going to fix our house?” a young boy aged 5 or 6 asked, before running back to his mother to tell her, “I shouted at him.”‘

    and the media report on it…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11312385

  47. karol 47

    A different version of the Nat campaign ad – courtesy of Charlton Heston and a ship of slaves.

    • Chooky 47.1

      yeah we are the slaves in our own country with the NACTs running it!…like that ad

      …no women there either ( i guess they made the packed lunches)

  48. Anita 48

    Asking the lazy web… ;-)

    Are any of the public polls publishing their undecided numbers? Four weeks out that’s the most important number.

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