Open mike 22/01/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:07 am, January 22nd, 2014 - 159 comments
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openmike

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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike …

159 comments on “Open mike 22/01/2014 ”

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  1. phillip ure 1
    22 January 2014 at 7:14 am

    it’s wednesday..

    ..so why not start the day by singing/dancing..

    ..and just generally grooving..?

    ..here is 82 mins of the best of ‘soul-train’..

    ..that’ll do the trick for ya..eh..?

    http://boingboing.net/2014/01/20/soul-train-line-compilation.html

    (this one deserves bookmarking…)

    phillip ure..

    • vto 1.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:34 am

      Most excellent. I can even tell which one is you mr ure.

    • TE 1.2
      22 January 2014 at 2:41 pm

      Thanks for the link absolutly fantastic way to start the day,
      I enjoy your comments very much and I must say I understand them at first glance, 🙂

      • phillip ure 1.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:24 pm

        chrs…te..

        ..it is a good way to start the the day..

        ..and end it..(‘i’ve just finished a four hour session..got a music-glow on right now..)

        ..i’ve decided to pick a choice track each day for whoar..

        ..so i’ll throw it up here too..

        ..i’ve got a very cool one for tomorrow..

        ..i’ll try for good/unknown..or killer-versions of something better known..

        ..i think having unifying factors in this upcoming year of conflict/turmoil..

        ..won’t hurt..

        ..(and who could not enjoy watching/listening to that soul-train link above..eh..?

        ..you’d have to be made of stone/tone-deaf..

        ..phillip ure..

  2. Ad 2
    22 January 2014 at 7:16 am

    Excellent positioning for the week:

    Key sets out clearly how he is desperate to achieve sustaining the grip on power by all democratic means necessary… and that sordid story gets to rot in public a week

    Six days of news cycle, by formal speech, Cunliffe will set out what the ideals to aspire to are for New Zealand, concentrate on child poverty, and how to achieve opportunity for all.

    Can’t think of a better way to start the political year going into the opening of parliament.

    • ak 2.1
      22 January 2014 at 7:54 am

      Quite right Ad.

      And a new minister of Local Gummint no less – as the rats leaving the sinking ship can be more accurately described as mice leaving the stinking ship, here’s an ex-DPB wahine of no great airs and grace for the silver-spoon misogeny old boys club to chew on.

      There’s a distinct and pervasive smell seeping out of Torytown now: Gower and the rest of the rent-children have seen the descent to the gutter, watched the mice and those with a trace of dignity and judgement still intact head for the hills: and truth, purity and justice grow in strength again for the first time in years.

      Kia kaha Standardistas and all believers in humanity: the time has come, this year is yours.

    • veutoviper 2.2
      22 January 2014 at 8:37 am

      The focus will probably change tomorrow (Thursday) when Key gives his State of the Nation speech – and his announcements of potential coalition partners yesterday was probably planned on this probable change of focus.

      According to Vernon Small, Key’s State of the Nation speech is expected to focus on education. See the last paragraph in Small’s article on Stuff.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9636040/Nats-won-t-rule-out-talks-with-Peters

      However, having Key’s speech before Cunliffe’s gives Cunliffe the opportunity to counter Key’s speech in his own one on Monday.

  3. phillip ure 3
    22 January 2014 at 7:49 am

    breaking news..!

    ..tvone breakfast ‘team’ ‘discover’ that school tuck-shops sell sugar/crap-laden unhealthy drinks/food to school children..

    ..rawdon christie is in shock..and needing consoling from his colleagues..

    ..(and funny story..!..that deep-as-a-petrie-dish christie is one of those access-media/neo-lib-apologist trouts..

    ..who would have run with that ‘nanny-state’-meme….

    ..and probably cheered the key tory party when they removed any restrictions on what children could be sold in school tuck-shops.

    ..(one of their first acts..so ensuring primary-school children are early-addicted to sugar/salt/fat/caffeine-laden crap..was obviously high on their urgent-to-do list..

    ..they do have their advertisers/corporate-supporters to think of..eh..?..and the promises/nods/winks they had give them..)

    ..’gotta get that nanny-state out of our lives..!..we demand the right to addict our children to whatever we choose..!’

    ..eh rawdon..?..)

    (..but be reassured..!..

    ..that other ‘expert’..that weather-youth..

    ..he had an anecdotal or two..that ‘proved’ that we really have to problem at all..

    (whew..!..that’s a relief..!..eh..?..)

    ..and all over town energy-drink marketeers were ordering that cases of their product be sent to that weather-guru..)

    phillip ure..

    • Paul 3.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:11 am

      You deserve a medal for listening to Christie and the rest on breakfast.

      • phillip ure 3.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 9:42 am

        @ paul..

        ..to be honest..it is only a few days in..and my spirit is sagging..

        ..it is such unrelentingly/multi-faceted ‘bad’..

        ..i can’t see me lasting much longer..

        ..and i flicked over to three..and horror of horrors..!

        ..their (excruciatingly-boring) business-person has been upgraded to co-host..(!)

        ..i lasted there about three minutes..

        ..it’s not looking good..eh..?

        phillip ure..

  4. Flip 4
    22 January 2014 at 8:12 am

    Often politicians talk about growth. What sort of growth? What does the Labour Party (DC) mean when talking of growth? If making the pie (economy/GDP) bigger then it is more of the same neo-lib BS. If increasing the share of wealth to the less wealthy you then have a socialist policy.

    Where is that growth coming from and what sort of consumption growth? If it is growth in consumption of imports, debt, population, resource consumption then there is little sustainable benefit to NZ.

    Desirable growth include:
    Growth in the efficiency of resource usage NOT more resource usage.
    Growth in the value of sustainable exported goods NOT just quantities.
    Growth in employment, quality of work, income for the less well off. NOT longer hours, poorer conditions and pay rises for execs, or reduced number of jobs.

    These are growth goals for the left.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1
      22 January 2014 at 8:39 am

      Correct. Uneconomic growth, i.e. growth which leaves people behind, worsens disparity, damages the prospects of future generations, harms the environment, is unsustainable, benefits only those far from where the work is actually done…that kind of growth must be singled out and halted in its tracks.

    • weka 4.2
      22 January 2014 at 8:45 am

      hmmm… ok, so perpetual growth on a finite planet (or series of islands) is a special kind of madness. So do we attempt to re-appropriate the word ‘growth’ to mean something sustainable? Or do we replace the whole concept (eg steady state economy)?

      • jcuknz 4.2.2
        22 January 2014 at 9:30 am

        Nice to see it is not just me writing about the folly of ever expanding consumption on a finite world millions of lightyears from just maybe expansion room.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1
          22 January 2014 at 9:34 am

          There’s always Titan…or the Moon…hey, what happened to the awesome Moonbase we were promised in Space: 1999? Way over schedule.

      • Flip 4.2.3
        22 January 2014 at 3:01 pm

        Probably hard to re-appropriate words but need to distinguish politically types of growth advocated between the parties. Make a point of difference.
        Also difficult to solve the worlds problems but we can work on making NZ an example to the world of how to run a society and an economy. At least look after our own interests properly and not give stuff away cheaply. Nobody else seems to have any clues. All a bunch of lemmings following USA over the cliff.

  5. bad12 5
    22 January 2014 at 8:23 am

    David Cunliffe on RadioNZ National just now, a good interview outlining Labour’s position,(nothing new there),

    Relaxed as, even to the point of what sounded like genuine laughter at Slippery the Prime Ministers 6 headed monster when it comes to Nationals coalition choices…

    • veutoviper 5.1
      22 January 2014 at 8:39 am

      Agreed that it was a good interview – relaxed but clear and to the point. Loved his two instances of very natural laughter.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 9:16 am

        Loved his two instances of very natural laughter.

        – Well its something he needs to work on so good on him

      • Rosie 5.1.2
        22 January 2014 at 9:46 am

        Apologies in advance for being shallow. It has only just occurred to me what a lovely sounding voice Cunliffe has, so ………………….soothing and pleasant to listen to. Aaaah.

        Unlike Key’s, whose voice cause the teeth to grind, the knuckles to clench and the blood pressure to raise.

        • Will@Welly 5.1.2.1
          22 January 2014 at 10:34 am

          Chill. Take a pill. Go for a walk. We need your vote come election time. Not a cot-case, stressed out because of old slippery snake oil.

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    22 January 2014 at 8:53 am

    UK barman attempts citizens arrest of Tony Blair

    “[Blair] was sitting at the head of a table upstairs with about eight other people eating dinner. I think he was out with his family and a few friends,” Garcia said. “I went over to him, put my hand on his shoulder and said, ‘Mr. Blair, this is a citizen’s arrest for a crime against peace, namely your decision to launch an unprovoked war against Iraq. I am inviting you to accompany me to a police station to answer the charge.’”

    This is the perfect example of how to make these “leaders” (of societal death and destruction) pay a daily and social price for their malfeasance.

    http://rt.com/news/blair-iraq-war-crimes-law-949/

    • greywarbler 6.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:36 am

      Good one Garcia. Even if you are trying to be a comedian, what a great idea. It would be good to carry out citizens arrests on old politicians who have wormed their way into the consciousness of the people and have created a fact-free, untouchable tunnel of love for themselves. Sort of like termites into solid wood. Berlusconi to get the treatment, everyone would find it arresting!
      Locally, I’d love to do it to Sir Roger Douglarse.

    • Rosie 6.2
      22 January 2014 at 9:47 am

      Excellent.

    • miravox 6.3
      22 January 2014 at 10:06 am

      A great initiative

      It seems Mr Blair may soon have more trouble travelling without security in Britain than he does in the Middle-East.

  7. phillip ure 7
    22 January 2014 at 8:57 am

    a martin bradbury/kim dotcom..passing-thought..

    ….upon reading the unrelenting savagery of the reviews of the musical-offering from kim dotcom..

    ..i couldn’t help but wonder if bradburys’ conditions of employment with dotcom..

    ..included (semi-enforced) listening to/nodding-along-to/smiling-enthusiastically –

    – to listenings of early mixes..?

    ..whoar..!..eh..?

    ..(just saying..!..)

    ..and in other dotcom-news..

    ..chris trotter did a particularly cloying/apologist puff-piece on dotcom @ the daily blog..

    ,.and that inspired me to pose the (quite reasonable..under the circumstances..i thought) question:

    “..phillip ure says:

    January 20, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    hello..

    ..i asked a question of chris trotter about 48 hrs ago..

    ..that seemed to not get thru moderation..

    ..i am puzzled..

    ..as i only asked if mr trotter was in the past/currently/on future-promises..

    ..of paid employment in any shape or form..

    ..from kim dotcom or any entity he is involved with..?

    ..thank you..

    ..phillip ure..

    (no answer..as yet..and as article has now slipped back into tdb-archives..

    ..i ain’t holding my breath..eh..?

    ..but..i do think it is a question that needs to be asked again..

    phillip ure

    • veutoviper 7.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:47 am

      On the Bradbury/KDC ‘relationship’, yesterday I came upon a few bits of interesting speculation/rumour in a Vernon Small opinion piece on Stuff dated 18 January 2014.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9624107/Wrecking-balls-entertaining

      The whole article is worth reading as it also covers Crusher Collins wrecking ball on ACC, but here is part of Small’s take on the KDC Internet Party ‘Clayton’s’ launch last week – and who else may have been involved in giving advice. (This speculation appears to align with KDC’s comments about advice having been sought from across the political spectrum.)

      First, the comedy of errors.

      The Kim Dotcom vortex, that had already sucked in and crushed so many careers in 2013, has swung into action again.

      There were rumours late last year that the usual suspects in the politico-legal world were jockeying for position around the giant German wrecking ball’s plans for his new party. Lawyer and former ACT MP Stephen Franks and his trusty sidekick, Jordan Williams, were rumoured to have been elbowed aside before Christmas, though neither would confirm or deny if Mr Dotcom was a client.

      Constitutional lawyer Mai Chen’s firm has confirmed its involvement in giving advice ahead of the launch.

      On the pure political side, news service Scoop’s press gallery reporter, Alastair Thompson, has also confirmed a role (interestingly, his stepson, who was once a Scoop employee, now works for Ms Chen’s firm). When Thompson came on to the scene, blogger Martyn Bradbury seems to have been given the heave- ho, along with his strategy “white paper” revealed by Cameron Slater’s Whaleoil blog this week. Thompson has since quit Scoop – or taken a sabbatical, depending on which version of events you hear – and is interim secretary of the embryonic Internet Party.

      But the irony will not be lost on anyone that some of the commentariat who are hottest on rooting out influence and conflicts of interest – and are most sanctimonious about it – were themselves so conflicted.

      It is anyone’s guess why, in all the planning, no-one realised Mr Dotcom’s giant free birthday bash – dubbed the “Party Party” – could fall foul of the electoral law on “treating”.

      But whatever the ins and outs, his party has gone backwards this week.

      It had the potential to be a real influence on the election – less so now.

    • Rosie 7.2
      22 January 2014 at 9:55 am

      No don’t hold your breath phil. TDB editor doesn’t like questions or to be challenged, no matter how reasonable, imo. I learned the hard way lol.

      By Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKZdzxX3qFc

  9. Colonial Viper 9
    22 January 2014 at 9:03 am

    With the price of funerals rising rapidly, UK poor now can’t afford to die

    With even the lowest key funeral clicking in at thousands of pounds, perhaps it is time for the UK to go back to unmarked paupers’ graves?

    http://rt.com/news/funeral-poverty-afford-die-958/

  10. Colonial Viper 10
    22 January 2014 at 9:05 am

    McDonalds Queens NY finally agrees to let seniors ‘hang out’ after calling police on them

    This is just one danger of the loss of public common space and conversion into private spaces for private profit. Even hanging out with long time friends becomes impossible without it being an offence.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/mcdonald-flushing-seniors-reach-seating-deal-article-1.1585819

    • just saying 10.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:36 am

      Interesting point.
      There are bugger all places in the city hubs where people can gather, hang-out, talk at length, if they want to, without having to spend any money. Communities need such places – comfortable, warm in winter with chairs and a couple of tables, maybe a zip and toilets. It’s cheapest if people are able to bring their own food and drink. As petrol gets more and more expensive it gets less viable to visit others’ homes to meet up with those from further than walking distance away.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 9:42 am

        Indeed. In some NZ cities the new subdivisions have sweet f.a. public meeting spaces. Just miles of curvy twisty suburban cul de sacs that you can barely walk between (why would you) and mostly have to drive in and out of. No sense of a community or town centre, just another housing estate designed to isolate you from your neighbours.

        I swear those places just breed Tories because of the lack of public common spaces for people and children to interact in.

        • Rosie 10.1.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 10:26 am

          Wasn’t Naomi Klein talking about “reclaiming the streets” back in the 90’s? From hazy memory it was a movement or idea about bringing a sense of community back via regaining public spaces that had been lost to private ownership and development

          Here we go, quick googley for reclaim the streets

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaim_the_Streets

          And those housing developments you mention above. I live on one (purely for economic and building soundness reasons) It is dire. We do have a neighbourhood planting group whose aim is to bring some nature to the otherwise featureless landscape. I am also considering organising a neighbourhood kite flying day on one of the privately owned future development sites. (It’s extremely windy here and I have seen kites flying so it may be a hobby to get people involved in together) There is no sense of neighbourly camaraderie and it is even a challenge to get a “hello” out of a passer by. Area’s such as these are such a departure from the cohesive nature of traditional neighbourhoods.

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1
            22 January 2014 at 10:31 am

            Awesome…you gotta be proud of that hands-on community building work!

          • Molly 10.1.1.1.2
            22 January 2014 at 10:49 am

            This grassroots community building is the volunteer work that I’ve been doing over the last four to five years.

            There is a definite movement developing and some really good tools and ideas out there – Rosie.

            Don’t know whether you are in Auckland – but one of the long-time community advocates – Jim Diers from Seattle – is coming over to NZ in March. He will definitely be in Auckland. He is worth going to see.

            Attended an Auckland Conversation. What struck me is the comments in the introduction from Auckland Council’s now replaced CEO – Doug McKay, who thanked Jim Diers for showing him that people can be viewed as resources and contributors.

            Our current planning head in Auckland Council – Dr Roger Blakely – came from Porirua City Council which won awards for their village planning programme.

            There have been indications that Auckland Council may attempt the same up here – but despite those whispers – nothing concrete as yet.

            • Rosie 10.1.1.1.2.1
              22 January 2014 at 11:42 am

              Thanks Molly for the links and big ups to you for the work you do 🙂

              That’s interesting about the Village Planning Programme. I have indeed noticed the various public outdoor art works springing up in the environment around Porirua. (I’m in Wellington) I might mention it to the one contact I do have in the neighbourhood, who happens to have strong council connections. That is a great idea, thank you.

              I think there are opportunities for community strengthening in our area – I know the local Papa Kainga has been active and the emergency resilience group is influential in other parts of the area – it’s tying it together that is the trick, and creating a sense of unity.

          • karol 10.1.1.1.3
            22 January 2014 at 10:58 am

            Reent New Lynn development is interesting. There are some open air spaces for the public to hang out – There’s a spot on Todd Triangle – open but I think with some overhead cover – where a small group of Chinese people (many elderly) regularly do some slow movement exercises together.

            But many of the prime sites have been bought by business interests – eg MacDonalds overlooking one of the main squares by the Mall. Although, there still are buskers and others gathering to chat etc in the square in fron of MacDonalds.

            There’s a community centre with indoor space and many activties for people – it’s just not one of the more centrally-located spots – businesses have too much influence in buying preferred spaces.

      • just saying 10.1.2
        22 January 2014 at 9:46 am

        It seems like the local tertiary institutions are the only places that provide facilities in which people can bring their own whatever, and hang-out all day if they want to.
        The lack of such facilities is very isolating, particularly for those without much money.

        I’ve known a couple of people who took a paper or two at uni mainly to procure these and the many other collective facilities and advantages that students enjoy. And very cost-effective it was too.

        • karol 10.1.2.1
          22 January 2014 at 10:59 am

          There’s also some community centres and libraries in Auckland.

          • just saying 10.1.2.1.1
            22 January 2014 at 11:06 am

            The library is certainly a kind of community centre here too. But hanging out all day, talking, and food and drink are not exactly encouraged. There are no group meeting rooms.

            Which reminds me that WINZ has some such public facilities. Mainly used for formal meetings. Beneficiaries always mention how uncomfortable they feel about being there.

    • Will@Welly 10.2
      22 January 2014 at 10:29 am

      The Americans invented the modern day equivalent of the meeting hall – it’s called the “Mall”. Just make sure you look “youthful” and you have plenty of “bling”.
      Modern day Councils don’t see investing in Council amenities as “investments”, they want “returns” – $$$$. Have a look at the layout of the modern-day development, the focus is where to place the shopping area, the school will then go nearby, followed by a park. But the focus starts with the commercial aspect first – $$$$ – revenue, not people.

      • greywarbler 10.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 3:41 pm

        Hey be kind to Councils that do anything. The ACT giant reversed the fairy tale and came down the beanstalk and took away all our things to his place in the sky. It’s a wonder we hae any Councils left –

        That aren’t just set up to advance the wants and desires of the noisy and pushy. I notice Dunedin council not content with piling an extravagant colosseum on the ratepayers, shows its colours further by banning a No Drilling sign on an island that has been leased from it. The Rule is that it doesn’t allow advertising. Is a two-finger salute advertising? Or just an example of Andy-Warhol-type modern stuff.

    • freedom 10.3
      22 January 2014 at 12:10 pm

      meanwhile in the UK
      http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/josie-appleton/end-of-public-space-one-law-to-ban-them-all

      the new bill will take things to an entirely new level, removing existing checks on the use of powers, such as the need for public consultation or to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt. This bill will make authorities’ total control over public space a daily reality.

      • Colonial Viper 10.3.1
        22 January 2014 at 12:32 pm

        They want to prevent public protests such as Occupy recurring. The power elite is afraid.

        • freedom 10.3.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 1:00 pm

          Absolutely, but the Medusa’s raft of new anti-protest laws in the UK have already seen to it that future progress for Occupy and similar movements will be [nigh impossible]. I see these new changes as a not so subtle goosestep towards complete stage-management of ‘the message’.

          ‘out of sight out of mind’ ring a bell?

  11. Rosie 11
    22 January 2014 at 9:33 am

    Just moving this reply to BM from “National coalition with NZ First?” to Open Mike so he can’t miss it. I really am curious BM and would like to hear your response.

    “UF will get a seat” (says BM)

    Can you tell us how you know that?

  12. Steve James 12
    22 January 2014 at 9:43 am

    Bringing in Peter Dunn just may have batted this swinging voter away. Would Labour include Dunn if necessary? Probably; so where to from here?

    Winston First? Well I don’t see Peters being healthy enough both mentally and physically to function in 2015 and he does have some very good MPs who could step up. So acceptable but then Labour certainly wouldn’t say no to Peters.

    So it’s down to Mana/Greens verses Conserves/ACT. I could accept limited input from all but Mana; racists have no place in my government.

    Bottom line for me; if Cunliff can rule out Harawira I vote Labour.

    • felix 12.1
      22 January 2014 at 9:51 am

      “So it’s down to Mana/Greens verses Conserves/ACT. I could accept limited input from all but Mana; racists have no place in my government.”

      Except John Banks, apparently.

      • Steve James 12.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:14 am

        Hey felix, FYI: John Banks will be gone

        • Lanthanide 12.1.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 12:50 pm

          Yes, and which party did you vote for at the last election, Steve?

          Was it National, knowing they’d bring along Banksie (and maybe Brashie)?

    • bad12 12.2
      22 January 2014 at 10:30 am

      Steve James, Labour leader David Cunliffe speaking on RadioNZ National this morning more or less ruled out Peter Dunne,(”if He calls us we might talk to Him,but i don’t think i will be calling Him”),

      No mention of the Mana Party by Cunliffe this morning, for our amusement Steve can you tell us what it is that engenders your hatred when it comes to the Mana Party…

      • Rosie 12.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:04 am

        Lol. I was trying to find evidence of Dunne saying he would never work with Labour (again)- he’s said it recently, but what I came across instead was this from Pete George who has cold feet for his leader:

        I’m still a member of United Future, I joined for three years when I stood for the party last election. That membership runs out in a few months.

        “I have seen nothing to encourage me to renew that membership. That’s very disappointing.

        United Future could be, should be a small by significant player in Parliament and potentially in Government. Key has given them a vote of confidence.

        But the party will have to start earning votes from the public (and members). Soon. again.

        The opportunity is there. Is the party there? Is the determination? Or is United Future just an electorate committee for Ohariu?”

        http://yournz.org/tag/peter-dunne/

        So, in essence Steve James, Dunne won’t work with Labour and they’re not interested in him anyway as bad12 points out.

        And BM, even Dunne’s biggest cheer leader is starting to have misgivings about the future for his man.

        • bad12 12.2.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 11:51 am

          Lolz Rosie, that is funny from He who still cannot get over being temporarily spanked by Lprent, i wonder what colour that ones overcoat will be when He changes it…

      • Steve James 12.2.2
        22 January 2014 at 11:16 am

        Hello Bad12

        “hatred”? not in my world so no comment.

        • bad12 12.2.2.1
          22 January 2014 at 11:45 am

          So why did you bother to then, wing-nuts all of them too terrified to expose their opinions to scrutiny…

    • bad12 12.3
      22 January 2014 at 10:33 am

      Steve James i bet you Richard Prosser gets you going as one of the NZFirst MP’s you see ”as being able to step up”…

    • freedom 12.4
      22 January 2014 at 10:44 am

      Hi Steve
      Great to hear you have no room for rascists ( or liars apparently).
      As you seem to have missed some replies to your posts from yesterday,
      I thought I might save you some time – other folks also have their own questions for you

      first up is your sharing of prescription data
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21012014/#comment-760638

      Are you saying you are a low income/beneficiary and pay for scripts?
      thus negating your original comment.
      or you are not a low income/beneficiary and enjoy the state subsidy Pharmac supplies.
      (which only raises the question of what it has to do with your original comment?)

      then there is your declaration of strong personal values
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21012014/#comment-760652

      Steve, here is an older Blip’s List (only up to April 2013) so as not to scare you too badly.
      Maybe I am being unfair and you are a rational reasonable man, but so far the on-message soundbites you have shared say otherwise.

      Get comfy, curl up with your dogma
      and fully challenge the integrity of your stated hatred of lies and liars
      http://thestandard.org.nz/an-honest-man/

      • Steve James 12.4.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:12 am

        Thanks freedom

        Yeah time is precious so I get little time to visit The standard.

        Firstly I have two jobs though the second is as a small business operator with my partner. Neither of us are on benefits however some of our friends are and they are very open about their circumstances. I received the DPB some years back and I remain grateful to those who contributed to my family’s wellbeing.

        Having strong personal values is a good thing so no further comment required.

        I will look at the Blip’s list tonight, thanks.

        Look freedom; people have different perspectives, varied understandings and inherent biases on most issues, that’s what open discussion is about. If you write just one thing that makes sense to me and changes a misguided perspective I may have; well, that’s a good thing. The same applies the other way.

        Any way, work to do

        Have a good day

        • freedom 12.4.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 12:35 pm

          “people have different perspectives, varied understandings and inherent biases on most issues, that’s what open discussion is about.”

          the above quote was brought to you by the guy that just yesterday told CV
          “I’m not sure I care what you think actually.”

          enjoy your employment Steve, long may it last
          (and fear not, despite the flurry of recent attention, you are not some pet project )

    • Murray Olsen 12.5
      23 January 2014 at 4:17 pm

      Do you consider Hone racist because he noticed that the colonisers had paler skin than the colonised? I really don’t think you have much idea what racism is.

  13. greywarbler 13
    22 January 2014 at 9:46 am

    A good look at the health of our people and our Health system this morning on Radionz. Tony Ryall oils his way over the bumpy ground of sharp tacks formed by unsatisfactory stats.

    A point made that Annette King changed counting lists of waiting sick, to counting waiting times. There was no attempt earlier to count those sick and not on the waiting list, now there is no attempt to count either the needy off list, or the waiting on list. There is just the trumpeting of increases in numbers of operations. Gives the impression that everything is under control.

    But the Christchurch Charity Hospital and others are aware of people in pain who have no hope of getting near the list. Others who have GP or specialist advice that they could be helped, are far away from getting on the list. Who knows how many are unable to be done within time, are sent back to the GP and start on the cycle again. The system fits into the overarching approach that this government operates under, the casino principle, luck is important and the only way to be sure of getting stuff is to be in on running the ‘tables’. And not to have too much oversight, to have stats that are seen through a mirror darkly, so they are open to misunderstanding and confusion.

    • bad12 13.1
      22 January 2014 at 10:53 am

      Couldn’t agree with this comment more, excellent description of this mornings discussion on RadioNZ which paints neither Labour or National in a good light,

      i know the truth of the substance of the allegations made this morning because i am one of those not counted, i have access to as many brands of pain-blocking medication as there are available through Pharmac, but,

      As far as removing the causes of this pain goes i am told that i will have to wait ‘until they have become life threatening’,

      My next logical question to the Doctor informing of this was of course, ”how will i know when it has become life threatening”, and while admiring this particular Doctors honest answer had to wonder why He didn’t don a ‘black cap’ while announcing what in effect sounded remarkably like a death sentence,

      ”It will pierce your bowels which you will definitely feel” being His reply while writing the scrip which allows me to be mostly free of pain while i wait for the grand occasion to occur,(even going so far as to write a note to WINZ telling them i definitely need a landline phone for my future health),

      NICE, a health system that passes the buck to WINZ who will in five years have paid out as much, if not more, than the cost of what the health system would incur by fixing the original bone anomaly…

      • Rosie 13.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:19 am

        Very sorry to hear of that bad12.

        So essentially you are being denied treatment to the cause of your pain now, treatment that would prevent a serious and costly health crisis

        Such a foolish and cavalier approach from the health system towards illness must create anxiety in patients such as yourself. Anxiety that would be avoidable if the problem were to be treated now before its reaches crisis stage.

        • bad12 13.1.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 11:41 am

          Tah much Rosie, i am pretty pragmatic about my life span tending to view such as ”how long is a piece of string”, having smoked at least 20 a day since age 14 i should have no great expectations of longevity nor in the current climate being looked on favorably by any within the health sector,

          i am tho still seething over the original diagnosis of this particular problem 20 odd years ago by the medical profession who using ‘the crystal ball method’ convinced me it was a simple muscle problem easily alleviated by a couple of simple exercises,

          In the intervening 20 odd years i have engaged in physical activity which has resulted in outright agony,(lamb tailing in the South Island which involved bending over and picking up lambs to the tune of 1000 a day for the 3 week ‘season’), all the while telling myself it’s ‘only’ a muscle problem,

          It was only 5 years ago when explaining to yet another Doctor who didn’t rely on the crystal ball method of diagnosis my worn out hip and this particular problem, Her view was ‘lets gt a picture of what’s happening here’ and i was totally gob-smacked to find on the x-ray that my 20+ year ‘muscle problem’ had all along been a piece of bone growing off my spine that is now quite a protuberance…

          • Rosie 13.1.1.1.1
            22 January 2014 at 11:57 am

            Oh FFS! I I would be seething too, all those years of thinking you had one thing when it was another, and the lost opportunities to get the right treatment from the beginning.

            It’s very easy, upon hearing stories such as yours to wonder how a person’s well being and health would be vastly improved if we were governed by those who were committed to providing a high quality barrier free readily accessible and safe public health system. (well done to those health workers who do so much within the limits on their ability to provide an above adequate service)

            I can only wish you the best bad12.

      • greywarbler 13.1.2
        22 January 2014 at 3:54 pm

        bad12
        Regards. Glad I managed to convey the gist of this mornings talk adequately.
        Sorry to hear your situation. We’ll see how we can change things with a change of government. Probably everyone I know will unlike me by the election.

        Any chance of an op at Christchurch? Have a look at them on google. I think I will put them on my donation list. Just a little bit but if a lot did that then hopefully if would pile up and grease the wheels of the trolleys to theatre.

      • greywarbler 13.1.3
        22 January 2014 at 4:03 pm

        bad12
        Regards. Glad that I caught the tone of this mornings twaddle so effectively.

        Do you think you could get it done through Christchurch Charity? Have a look at their google.
        We will try and get a new bunch in government this year, but I think Annette King is still around – same job?

        • bad12 13.1.3.1
          22 January 2014 at 5:54 pm

          Greywarbler, cheers yes i listened with interest to the Christchurch charity hospital, something i have never heard of befor,

          Will check them out later although i think they may prefer younger candidates…

        • greywarbler 13.1.3.2
          22 January 2014 at 8:40 pm

          Did this comment again as I thought the first was lost. Waited round for it, and looked here and there, refreshed, and then decided I hadn’t put my identification. Perhaps it went to moderation.

    • Molly 13.2
      22 January 2014 at 10:59 am

      Wouldn’t it be good for transparency to have a statistician create – and another statistician – critique the standard figures that indicate good governance in NZ – and then they stay the same for at least the next twenty years?

      Might not be useful for political ends – but what a good basis for policy and indicator for the rest of us.

      • veutoviper 13.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 12:09 pm

        I agree Molly that performance indicators/measures need to be established and then kept for a reasonable period of time to allow comparison. And if these need to be changed/improved due to changes in circumstances, outcomes sought etc, the changes must incorporate some methodology to allow comparision with the original or previous performance indicators/measures.

        But this type of work is not straight statistics. It is a specific field that involves statistics, but also requires a much wider range of skills and knowledge,many of which are not numerical or statistical. For example strategic and business planning, an understanding of the interaction of outcomes, goals, inputs, outputs and how to identify and establish meaningful performance indicators/measures that actually measure performance against desired outcomes etc. It also requires ‘sales’ skills to get buy-in from management and others to appreciate the usefulness of such measures to them in their daily work and implement such measuring systems – often one of the hardest parts!

  14. Bill 14
    22 January 2014 at 10:41 am

    Instantly thought of a kid scribbling to obliterate out some drawing that had gone wrong when I watched this. Unfortunately, the ‘scribble’ is the track of plane flights through our atmosphere spewing (and because no-one wants ‘international’ emissions included in their national emission totals) uncounted CO2 24/7. (note: 1g of aviation fuel = 3g CO2)

    Part 4 is pertinent

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2014/aviation-100-years

    (might take a wee few minutes to load)

    • weka 14.1
      22 January 2014 at 10:55 am

      Holy shit, that’s quite some graphic.

    • weka 14.2
      22 January 2014 at 10:59 am

      “and because no-one wants ‘international’ emissions included in their national emission totals)”

      So where the graphic talks about air travel accounting for 3.5% to 4.9% of all GHG emissions, that’s going to be a low number? Or will they be estimating in what’s not in the national figures?

      • Bill 14.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 11:31 am

        I don’t know how they arrived at the numbers they do. But according to Kevin Anderson of the Tyndal Institute, international shipping and international air travel are not counted into national totals for the reasons I gave in the original comment.

        Also…they don’t seem to have calculated emissions for fighter/military flights or private jets. And given that fighter jets are always on exercise or on maneuvers when not in combat…anyone with experience of the UK where the screaming of RAF jets is punctuated by emerging sounds of the countryside might appreciate just how many of those buggers are up in the air at any given time.

        • joe90 14.2.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 11:38 am

          This.

          The DoD accounted for around 1 percent of the US energy consumption and 80 percent of the federal government energy consumption. Although this may seem small, the fact is that the Pentagon is the largest single consumer of energy in the World. Nigeria, with a population of more than 160 million, consumes as much energy and emits as much CO2 as the US military.

          http://www.dailyenergyreport.com/how-much-energy-does-the-u-s-military-consume-an-update/

        • karol 14.2.1.2
          22 January 2014 at 3:48 pm

          Ah…. so much to thank wars for [/sarc] – great innovations leading to massive use of air travel – and envormental degradation..

          • freedom 14.2.1.2.1
            22 January 2014 at 11:09 pm

            – and dead people,
            economists seem to forget all the dead people
            they are a lost resource surely

            what good is an economy or a society or even democracy itself,
            if eventually all it produces are just more dead people

            Here’s Tom with the weather

    • ianmac 14.3
      22 January 2014 at 11:27 am

      Terrifying actually and where will it end and when/if it does what happens to country dependent on Tourism? Thanks Bill.

  15. Draco T Bastard 15
    22 January 2014 at 11:01 am

    The Left and the State

    Baker has, I think, done some of the best popular writing attacking the fiction that the Right is for free markets while the Left is for government regulation. As I’ve noted elsewhere, the contest before us in the immediate future is between different regimes of state-created and -enforced property, not between the state and the market.

    A very valid observation.

  16. philj 16
    22 January 2014 at 11:19 am

    Natz e
    Ohariu List MP, Katrina (undertaker) Shanks. From one dead end job to another….

  17. Tracey 17
    22 January 2014 at 11:21 am

    The herald has frontpaged which of the following the most;

    A. Len brown affair; or
    B. John banks charged with fraud on an electoral matter

    • Paul 17.1
      22 January 2014 at 2:53 pm

      The Herald is totally obsessed by Brown.
      Must want Cameron Brewer or Dick Quax as mayor.
      Or at least one prepared to sell Auckland’s assets to foreign corporations.

  18. Tracey 18
    22 January 2014 at 11:25 am

    Listening to this song by lizzie west… the following caught my ear

    Well as I drive then I begin to see,
    The lazy trade their dignity
    At the root of the conspiracy,
    Is the corporate claim on all our needs.
    Down goes the small man’s dream,
    The franchise rise and provide.
    America how do you like it.
    This is how it will be.

  19. Puckish Rogue 19
    22 January 2014 at 11:29 am

    David Cunliffe sounded better (on RadioLive) then he has in a long time but he still has a tendency to sound patronising when he starts to get on a roll. But whoevers working with him is certainly doing their job.

  20. amirite 20
    22 January 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Very disappointed in Cunliffe, ditching the tax-free for first $5000 earned and taking off GST from fruit and veges. Screw the poor, yet again.
    What’s the use of voting for Labour now?

    • BM 20.1
      22 January 2014 at 1:08 pm

      Apparently He’s ditching the living wage bollocks as well.

      https://twitter.com/StaceyKirkNZ

      Go Cunliffe, first bit of sane news I’ve heard from labour for a long time

      • Lanthanide 20.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 1:13 pm

        Er, he’s not ditching a policy they never had.

        What he’s committed to is that the minimum wage will go up to $15 within the first 100 days, and that there will be further rises after that – likely a standard annual raise but I also wouldn’t rule anything else out.

      • karol 20.1.2
        22 January 2014 at 1:33 pm

        Stuff says:

        A living wage would be brought in over time, starting with the state sector, as it could be afforded.

        That’s just a continuation of the existing policy.

    • mickysavage 20.2
      22 January 2014 at 1:19 pm

      The tax free $5k helped everyone including the rich and was poorly targetted. Same with GST off fruit and veges in fact it would have had a regressive effect because the rich would benefit more.

      Better to come up with more targetted policies. For instance the money saved could be used to bring in free school breakfasts for poorer schools.

      • Puckish Rogue 20.2.1
        22 January 2014 at 1:21 pm

        To be fair Labour did want to “axe the tax” 🙂 but seriously this is a good call by Cunliffe, shows hes serious about running the country and wants the center ground rather then pandering to the hard left

      • McFlock 20.2.2
        22 January 2014 at 1:29 pm

        I disagree.

        I reckon the poor would notice either a lot more than the rich, and the second point simply plays the “oooo, we’re soooo poor there’s not enough to go around” tory bullshit. For instance, we could do all three if the rich paid their way.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 20.2.3
        22 January 2014 at 1:32 pm

        I am disappointed re the GST on fruit and veges – everyone needs to eat and this shouldn’t be taxed – especially not the way the price of eating has gone up so badly – I fail to see how knocking the GST off fruit and veges benefits wealthy people more (?) It would be very nice to have these necessities costing less.

        Despite this reservation and disappointment I liked Labour’s press release it was short and sweet, to the point and indicated they are going to bring out something even better. I am, therefore, looking forward to what Labour are replacing these two policies with – they had better be good and feel hopeful that they will be.

        • phillip ure 20.2.3.1
          22 January 2014 at 2:44 pm

          @ blue..

          “..I fail to see how knocking the GST off fruit and veges benefits wealthy people more (?)..”

          that attempted-rationale puzzles me too..

          ..does the claimer think the rich have bigger stomachs…?

          ..as a claim..it totally lacks any logic..

          ..i’m holding judgement until after cunnliffes’speech next mon..

          ..but even if other serious moves are made..

          ..this would have been a practical help to the poorest..and promoted healthier-living..

          ..it was a two-fer..w.t.f. was not to like about it..

          ..i can undrstand the argument the tax-free for all gives to those who don’t need..

          ..but this is not the case with the gst/fruit/veges policy..

          ..and cunnliffe had better come up with something pretty whizz-bangy..

          ..to replace it..

          ..if raising the minimum wage is it..

          ..he will have just once again kicked the poorest in the guts..

          ..in that long neo-lib/clarkist-labour tradition..

          ..monday will tell..

          ..phillip ure..

        • bad12 20.2.3.2
          22 January 2014 at 3:58 pm

          i would suggest you don’t be disappointed about the GST and fruit and veg thingy, from where i sit such a move could be viewed in much the same light as raising the accommodation supplement,

          Those on the supply side of both these equations, as has been shown in the rental market, simply view such Government subsidies as an ‘opportunity’, raising their prices to match what the Government has provided thus negating any benefit to those most in need,

          Monday we await with raised expectation David Cunliffe explaining how Labour plan to address the bread and butter issue of increasing inequality and the poverty that builds around this…

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 20.2.3.2.1
            22 January 2014 at 4:09 pm

            @ Bad12

            Ah good to hear some sort of explanation re fruit and veges tax – I did take it that they are not pursuing dropping this tax so that they can spend the money gathered on something helpful…..so I am waiting with quite a bit of interested antipication

      • Bill 20.2.4
        22 January 2014 at 1:45 pm

        I agree the $5k lacked focus. Nevertheless, the tax component of $5k would be of immeasurable benefit to the poorest of us. How about then, that the abatement rates applied to earnings while claiming entitlements gets a radical over-haul or dumped? That benefits the poorest and small businesses too in terms of cash through and the ability to employ people legally.

        Fruit and veg is, well…I’m going to punt that far too many of us poorest people don’t really buy fresh fruit and veg in any worthwhile quantity anyway. And that’s not necessarily down solely to cost, but also poor eating habits and poor cooking skills plus other factors.

        Anyway. That were me tuppence worth

      • Colonial Viper 20.2.5
        22 January 2014 at 2:01 pm

        The tax free $5k helped everyone including the rich and was poorly targetted. Same with GST off fruit and veges in fact it would have had a regressive effect because the rich would benefit more.

        The tax free threshold should of course be paired with a higher flat tax rate, which together as a system would maintain progressiveness and simplify the tax system into something closer to supporting a UBI.

        I definitely don’t want to see innovation draining out of Labour’s policy play book, which would leave the Greens pushing the most progressive policy ideas.

        Of course, let’s wait for Mon as I am sure DC will have a few real surprises for all of us. *Fingers crossed*

      • felix 20.2.6
        22 January 2014 at 6:49 pm

        Come on mickey, be honest. The GST off F&V thing wasn’t regressive. Poor people spend a far greater proportion of their income on basic weekly food requirements than rich people do.

        It was dropped for one reason only: because when it was announced, Labour failed to stand by the basic decency of trying to make food cheaper and instead got sucked in to the right-wing “but you’re meddling with the free market!” framing of the policy and wasted their time having stupid arguments about snow-peas.

        Totally sensible policy. Total clusterfuck of coms. Total lack of ideological fortitude from the Labour caucus.

  21. kerry 21
    22 January 2014 at 1:32 pm

    I cant believe Cunliffe has just backed away from the minimum living wage, he just stated the minimum wage will be $15 and no plans to go any higher, what a massive backdown when he was going for broke when he was seeking to be leader of the party with all the promises of bridging the gap of inequality with an $18+per hour living wage. Any time Cunliffe has some momentum he shots himself in the foot and shows him to be a bigger liar than Key,

    [lprent: That appears to be a deliberate diversion from the post. Banned permanently. Moving thread to OpenMike. ]

    • mickysavage 21.1
      22 January 2014 at 1:42 pm

      Hmmm a second time commenter engaging in concern trolling.

      Cunliffe has not backed away from the minimum living wage. He has confirmed it and has plans to go higher as finances allow. If he did not say this he would be attacked for being reckless with the cheque book …

      • kerry 21.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 2:01 pm

        Oh yes its not a positive comment in Labours favour so it must be trolling mickysavage, im an undecided voter and Cunliffes promise of which I herd him say in person at a meeting that he would introduce a living wage as his first priority in government, had me won over

        I didn’t hear any talk of if and when or strings attached

        • mickysavage 21.1.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 2:18 pm

          Which meeting Kerry?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.1.1.2
          22 January 2014 at 2:30 pm

          Nor did you hear or read any evidence of a backing away. Personally I think you’re lying. I don’t believe you’re an undecided voter, either. Your comments stand out like a dog’s balls as insincere, bad faith drivel.

          Now, to demonstrate what a shallow individual you are, why not take my contempt as a reason to support John Key the way you always intended to?

          • Paul 21.1.1.2.1
            22 January 2014 at 2:57 pm

            His previous comments would suggest he’s acting concerned.
            He’s certainly attempting to derail discussion about Key’s decision to talk to Peters.

        • Anne 21.1.1.3
          22 January 2014 at 2:51 pm

          I didn’t hear any talk of if and when or strings attached.

          Well in that case kerry you are deaf (don’t listen properly), blind (can’t see properly) or dumb (can’t comprehend properly) because right from Day 1… Cunliffe made it clear that the minimum wage (or Living Wage seems to be the preference now) would have to be raised in at least two stages. He announced it would rise to $15 per hour immediately on taking office, but Labour’s ultimate aim was to increase the minimum wage to $18 per hour as soon as the coffers were sufficiently replenished. Since the minimum wage is a core policy plank, you can be assured $18 per hour will be implemented probably in 2017.

          • Anne 21.1.1.3.1
            22 January 2014 at 2:55 pm

            Edit function on the blink.

            correction: (Living wage seems to be the preferred term now)

          • karol 21.1.1.3.2
            22 January 2014 at 2:59 pm

            Anne, there is a difference between the minimum wage and the living wage.

            The minimum wage is lower. $18.00 has generally been agreed to be a reasonable “living wage”.

            The minimum wage would be more compulsory, while the living wage would be more something aimed at through incentives – eg government procurement contracts.

            • Melb 21.1.1.3.2.1
              22 January 2014 at 3:40 pm

              “$18.00 has generally been agreed to be a reasonable “living wage”.”

              Yes, for a family of four. Yet organisations are saying it should apply to everybody.

            • Anne 21.1.1.3.2.2
              22 January 2014 at 6:22 pm

              Yes I know the living wage is treated as a separate entity karol, but the original minimum wage concept from Labour included a target of two steps – a $15 increase followed at a later stage by another increase to $18. That was my clear recollection. Then the living wage concept was introduced which I know has different elements attached to it.

              I was replying to kerry at 21 plus 21.1.1 where he was accusing Cunliffe of being a worse liar than Key.

        • karol 21.1.1.4
          22 January 2014 at 2:55 pm

          Kerry: David Cunliffe video and report on Scoop October 2013:

          A fired up David Cunliffe said Labour would raise the minimum wage and was committed to a living wage for government employees in one of his first major speeches as Labour Leader.

          […]
          At a press standup following his speech, Mr Cunliffe said provisions for a “living wage”, initially for all government employees, would be included in their first budget subject to the “provisions of fiscal responsibility”. It would then be rolled out to crown entities and then to government contractors.

          Labour would develop a a certified living wage employer scheme, and would give preference of procurement contracts to employers who signed up to the scheme.

          SSo, no change from this in today’s announcement.</blockquote.

          As compared with your selective memory of something you allegedly heard live???!!!!

          Introducing, doesn't mean bringing it in for all employees at the same time.

          Is the Oct report was repeated quite widely in the MSM.

          Stuff October 2013:

          The $30m a year cost to extend a “living wage” to core Government employees would be accounted for in its first Budget “subject to the provisions of fiscal responsibility”.

          The scheme to ensure certified living wage employers were favoured when tendering for Government contracts would also be implemented as soon as possible.

    • karol 21.2
      22 January 2014 at 1:46 pm

      There’s a difference between the minimum and living wage. The minimum wage is the one you are referring to. The living wage policy remains the same as before.

      Stuff reports:

      A living wage would be brought in over time, starting with the state sector, as it could be afforded.

    • Te Reo Putake 21.3
      22 January 2014 at 1:48 pm

      Kerry, you’re wrong.

      Cunliffe has endorsed both an increase to the adult minimum wage ($15 within the first 100 days of his election as PM) and the seperate matter of the Living Wage (public sector immediately, private sector in time).

      • Paul 21.3.1
        22 January 2014 at 1:54 pm

        He’s just another ignoramus trying to derail worthwhile discussion on this site.

        • kerry 21.3.1.1
          22 January 2014 at 2:05 pm

          I feel sorry for you I really do Paul, atleast add something like Te Reo Putake has

          • Paul 21.3.1.1.1
            22 January 2014 at 2:08 pm

            Sorry for me because I call you out for not knowing what you’re talking about.
            Fine by me.
            You have a track record.

          • Tracey 21.3.1.1.2
            22 January 2014 at 2:13 pm

            can you post your source?

            • Paul 21.3.1.1.2.1
              22 January 2014 at 2:15 pm

              There is never a source from folk like Kerry.
              Maybe they heard Leighton Smith or Mike Hosking say it?

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.3.1.1.3
            22 January 2014 at 2:19 pm

            I feel sorry for you, Kerry, demonstrating such a high level of ignorance in public. The fact that you can write a comment implies that you can read, so I guess the problem must be some form of basic comprehension handicap.

            Kerry deserves our sympathy, people.

        • Te Reo Putake 21.3.1.2
          22 January 2014 at 2:19 pm

          I imagine we’re going to see more and more ‘concern’ from dupes and plants as the reality of the coming change of Government hits home, Paul.

    • Paul 21.4
      22 January 2014 at 1:51 pm

      Miserable attempt to distract.

    • Naki Man 21.5
      22 January 2014 at 2:03 pm

      Yea Nah Cunliffe was just sucking up to the unions to get the top job. He would say what ever they wanted to hear.They will be pissed with him
      He was never going to have a minimum wage of $18+

      • Paul 21.5.1
        22 January 2014 at 2:10 pm

        Really, naki.?
        Evidence for this claim?

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.5.2
        22 January 2014 at 2:12 pm

        Funi Man, it’s time for your reality check.

        An increase in the minimum wage to $15 within his first 100 days in office had not changed, although the minimum wage would go higher in time. A living wage would be brought in over time, starting with the state sector, as it could be afforded.

        You’d think the National Party could do something about wanna-be spokespeople like Funi Man making wingnuts look like clueless gimps. So hard to get good help these days.

        • Tracey 21.5.2.1
          22 January 2014 at 2:14 pm

          they prefer their supporters semi-literate with short concentration spans.

        • Naki Man 21.5.2.2
          22 January 2014 at 2:42 pm

          An increase in the minimum wage to $15 within his first 100 days in office had not changed, although the minimum wage would go higher in time. A living wage would be brought in over time, starting with the state sector, as it could be afforded

          In other words $15 minimum wage and then any increases will be very slow. Not $18+
          Councils have already voted against $18, the cost to rate payers is to high

          • Paul 21.5.2.2.1
            22 January 2014 at 2:48 pm

            Thread title….’National’s first strategic mistake’
            How is this comment related?

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.5.2.2.2
            22 January 2014 at 2:50 pm

            Just a couple of problems with your opinion, Funi Man: it’s worthless and offered in bad faith. I think I’ll dismiss it out-of-hand.

          • Te Reo Putake 21.5.2.2.3
            22 January 2014 at 2:51 pm

            Jeez, knackered man, have you still not spotted that they are two different things? Have a read here: http://www.livingwagenz.org.nz

            And another bit of education for you: the Wellington council has already voted to implement the living wage for its employees. Auckland won’t be far behind.

          • millsy 21.5.2.2.4
            22 January 2014 at 10:09 pm

            Hey Naki Man, do you want to hold wages down?

  22. Paul 22
    22 January 2014 at 1:46 pm

    Surely best not to come to hasty comments or decisions about this until the overall package mentioned in speech on Monday.
    Looks like Labour getting the bad news out of the way first so the spotlight will be on positive aspects on Monday.

  23. phillip ure 23
    22 January 2014 at 3:18 pm

    maybe in the interval between now and monday..

    ..we could/should look to the prescription to end poverty that was proffered by martin luther king ..

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37423.htm

    “..In his final book –

    – the civil rights leader laid out his vision for a universal basic income –

    – that would raise all Americans into the middle class..”

    phillip ure…

  25. Morrissey 25
    22 January 2014 at 4:29 pm

    “Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw!”
    The campaign to dismiss Kim Dotcom continues
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 21 January 2014
    Jim Mora, Graham Bell, Bernard Hickey

    JIM MORA: On the program today, Kim Dotcom’s new album—
    GRAHAM BELL: Pshaw! Haw, haw, haw, haw!
    BERNARD HICKEY: [wryly] You’ll be looking forward to that, Graham.
    GRAHAM BELL: Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw!

    That disparaging reaction is interesting. Kim Dotcom is not exactly Kanye West, but he is a skilled and accomplished rapper, as anyone who has heard his powerful indictment of government corruption “Mr President” has to admit. [1] People like Graham Bell cannot abide hearing words like the refrain of that song: “Let’s get together, let’s all unite, or they will do whatever they like.” Bell did not snicker like that simply because he is a crude and tasteless bully who wouldn’t know good music if he stumbled into a performance of the St. Matthew Passion by the Münchener Bach Orchestra & Choir. His expression of scorn for Kim Dotcom was political, though perhaps he is unaware of exactly why.

    Significantly, there was none of this scoffing from the establishment when Paul Holmes put out his truly awful vanity project in 2000, an utterly horrendous collection of butchered covers entitled Paul Holmes. [2] That wasn’t the reaction of normal people of course—everyone recognized immediately that Holmes’s album was a vanity project, possible only because he had power and influence, if not the common sense to realize he had no talent. But his colleagues in the media gritted their teeth and praised him, at least in public.

    Kim Dotcom, on the other hand, is an official enemy, targeted by the United States government. Not only is he a threat to the establishment, he is eloquent and immensely popular. The only way to deal with him, in the absence of any substantial argument, is to scorn him and snicker whenever his name is mentioned.

    Later in the program, after the 4:30 news, the other guest, Bernard Hickey, also took the opportunity to run with the hounds and have a go at Kim Dotcom….

    JIM MORA: I mean, how do YOU see Kim Dotcom? He says he’s just like a postmaster….
    BERNARD HICKEY: If the postmaster knowingly allowed people to steal things from the mail, then that would be a fair comparison. But having read that Grand Jury indictment [3] against him—
    GRAHAM BELL: He’s a convicted fraudster! He’s a big fat attention-seeker! I like the cartoon in the paper [4] which showed him as a big balloon about to explode! ….[drones on dully and interminably]…

    So it’s business as usual on The Panel then….
    http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/oh-lord-please-make-it-stop-sad-hill-news.jpg

    [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MokNvbiRqCM
    [2] Any of the thousands of complementary copies Holmes gave away for Christmas in 2000, 2001 and 2003 that have not been used as pot-scrapers or sunlight reflectors or for clay-pigeon shooting practice can be sourced from the free-bin in front of some St Vincent de Paul and Salvation Army shops.
    [3] Though Bernard Hickey seems to be entirely trusting in the integrity of the U.S. government, that indictment was clearly written by Hollywood industry lawyers. For anyone that—unlike Hickey—is serious about coming to grips with the validity or otherwise of that indictment, here is one of the many rigorous examinations of it….
    http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/internet/u-s-v-kim-dotcom-et-al
    [4] He’s referring to an unfunny cartoon by the Herald‘s unfunny cartoonist Emmerson, who got the job after editor Gavin Ellis was browbeaten and threatened into firing the vastly superior Malcolm Evans in 2002. Not only does Bell have no musical taste, he is no judge of cartooning either.

    • Paul 25.1
      22 January 2014 at 4:47 pm

      It’s awful today again with Fox Democrat Edwards and Tory Boag on.
      What got me was some employment ‘expert’ on talking about a buoyant jobs market.
      Nothing from Mora.
      Tell that to the 155 000
      Bring back Matinee Idol. I forgot how bad Mora is,

      • bad12 25.1.1
        22 January 2014 at 5:45 pm

        Yes this bouyant jobs market bullshit despite earlier in the day the ‘real’ figures being discussed on the same radio station which showed ‘the jobs market’ as being patchy at best,

        There’s Christchurch, a few professions, i forget which are in demand, (Health was one of them), and from there it’s pretty much ‘not so good news’,

        Even that not so good news will pale as the Reserve Bank hikes the cash rate and the Banks follow with interest rate rises…

      • Paul 25.1.2
        22 January 2014 at 5:51 pm

        And at about 10 to 5 Boag says NZ is an egalitarian society. In 2013. Not in 1975. In 2013.
        And Mora said nothing.
        Neither did Fox Democrat Edwards.

        Tell that to the 270 000 kids in poverty.

      • Tim 25.1.3
        22 January 2014 at 8:28 pm

        Yes to that (Bring back Matinee Idol). 9-5 ‘beltway hacks’, paid for experts, and various other has-beens are going to ensure the better parts of RNZ take a dive.
        Even if a Matinee-Idol attempted some sort of serious analysis of current affairs – it’d be superior to the bilge that occupies 101FM and its environs – especially betweem 1pm and 4pm. (9-12 …. could do better)

        “And Mora said nothing.”
        Does he ever?
        That’s the reason he’s the nicest man on Earth after all. Utterly inoffensive to anyone! If Adolf bloody Hitler was on “The Panel” he’d be attempting to ‘engage’ (in the nicest possible way of course).

  26. ianmac 26
    22 January 2014 at 6:31 pm

    Roy Morgan Poll out: “Labour/ Greens (46%) start election year with edge over National (43.5%) as Kim Dotcom set to launch new ‘Internet Party’ to contest elections.”….

    “Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows a potential Labour/ Greens alliance (46%, up 1%) leading John Key’s National Party (43.5%, down 1.5%) in the first New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll for 2014. Support for Key’s Coalition partners has slightly improved: Maori Party 2% (up 0.5%), United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%), ACT NZ 0% (unchanged).”

    Oh well. A tooth and nail battle awaits.

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