Open mike 23/01/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 23rd, 2016 - 91 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

91 comments on “Open mike 23/01/2016 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Gangnam Style 1
    23 January 2016 at 6:18 am

    Quick Herald online scan, ‘National thinking outside the square about housing crisis’ – regarding sending Pacific Islanders to other cities, ‘John Key looks at a fourth term’ – a strong year for National ahead apparently, ‘We asked & they delivered’ – regarding the flying of one of the alternative flag (which happens to be Keys favourite).

    One of the places they selected to fly the 2 flags was my dyed in the wool National card carrying member uncles holiday house in Whitianga (they call it a bach but its a freaking house).

  2. The Chairman 2
    23 January 2016 at 7:08 am

    The last debate before the first vote

    https://youtu.be/ti2Nokoq1J4

  3. North 3
    23 January 2016 at 7:15 am

    Herald’s political editor Audrey Young launches the Herald’s narrative for ’16-’17. “It’s the only game in town folks. For the fourth time I give you the Prime Minister, John Key……”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11578289

    Herald’s sub-narrative which feeds the first, re SkYCity – “The company, ever mindful of its role as a corporate citizen……”

    • b waghorn 3.1
      23 January 2016 at 7:59 am

      “For those people and for that group of voters, the two things that are really critical are interest rates staying low and the job market staying strong. So if they lose their job there is opportunity and that their mortgages don’t climb despite the nominal size of their mortgage.”

      Sounds me like keys claiming low interest rates as something he’s doing for the good of the country, its a shame his Muppet followers will believe it.

      • maui 3.1.1
        23 January 2016 at 9:05 am

        Interest rates have been trending down since the 80s. Is it any coincidence that as the world has gathered more and more debt over time that the interest rates have shrunk, so the debt can be serviced, and more people can be enticed into the global ponzi scheme.

      • fender 3.1.2
        23 January 2016 at 2:24 pm

        Low interest rates is definitely something National are trying make people believe is all their doing.

        In the spring 2015 issue of Nathan Guys “The Guy Report” junk-mail drop there is a survey portion readers are asked to complete and return. Listed under the heading: Which of National’s policies are making the biggest difference to you and your family? there are the following…

        -Extending Paid Parental leave to 18 weeks
        -ACC levy cuts Free GP visits for children aged under 13 (yes that’s how it’s written)
        -HomeStart package for first home buyers
        -KEEPING MORTGAGE INTEREST RATES LOW (my bold)
        -Tackling the worst repeat offenders and increasing services for victims
        -Growing the economy and creating jobs
        -Increasing access to Early Childhood Education
        -Providing breakfast in schools
        -Improving the quality of teaching and leadership in our schools

        • b waghorn 3.1.2.1
          23 January 2016 at 3:52 pm

          Its amazing how key got all those big countries to print vast amounts of money just to keep the interest rates down in little old In Z

    • Wensleydale 3.2
      23 January 2016 at 8:32 am

      “…ever mindful of its role as a corporate citizen…”

      Did anyone else feel the bile rise in their throat as they read that line?

  4. Rosemary McDonald 4
    23 January 2016 at 7:21 am

    Our own Flint here in NZ…?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/north-canterbury/75970641/crunchy-occasionally-yellow-tap-water-plagues-district

    and you really couldn’t make up shit like this…

    “The majority of the Hurunui’s 12,000 residents live with tap water connected to supplies given an “E” grade by the Ministry of Health.

    It is the lowest grade possible and represents an “unacceptable level of risk”, according to the Ministry.

    In the last analysis conducted in 2014, supplies for Cheviot, Amberley, Waiau and Waipara all recorded excessive E.coli levels and failed protozoa tests – placing them in the bottom 3 per cent of supplies nationwide.

    Seven rural water schemes in the district are on a permanent boil notice.”

    BUT…

    “The district council says it is more of a “nuisance” than a health issue.”

    AND…

    “The council has until 2025 to meet national drinking water standards, which it said could cost up to $14 million, as most of its water supplies do not meet the standard.

    It had previously told the Ministry of Health the standards were unfair, as much of the district’s water was consumed by animals.”

    Towards a brighter future…

    • Manuka AOR 4.1
      23 January 2016 at 9:04 am

      “Clean Green” and all that.. Even our “export grade” water has been rejected, by China: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/76117504/hawkes-bay-companys-first-shipment-of-drinking-water-rejected-by-china

      • The Chairman 4.1.1
        23 January 2016 at 9:19 am

        There is a lot of controversy surrounding the extraction and sale of water.

        http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/who-owns-new-zealands-water-2015041518#axzz3xrFYeoaP

      • weka 4.1.2
        23 January 2016 at 10:31 am

        Shipping water for commerce or anything other than aid is immoral in a world of climate change. Would love to see the ecological and carbon footprinting for that business including the water being returned.

        • The Chairman 4.1.2.1
          23 January 2016 at 10:50 am

          Yet, it’s purported to be vastly profitable. And by practically giving the water away, we’re largely missing out.

          • weka 4.1.2.1.1
            23 January 2016 at 10:58 am

            It’s only profitable because everyone else is paying for the costs that the current rules place outside the business. If they had to pay for the ecological footprint overshoot it would look entirely different.

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.2.1.1.1
              23 January 2016 at 11:17 am

              Another example of the elite commodifying and commercialising everything under the sun.

              • weka …
                23 January 2016 at 11:30 am

                Not just the elite, plenty of middle and working class people support, endorse, want and take advantage of those systems.

              • The Chairman …
                23 January 2016 at 11:32 am

                I would expect local councils (or Government) to run and own ventures as such to help offset rates.

                  • The Chairman …
                    23 January 2016 at 12:01 pm

                    Government and local councils require to broaden and increase their revenue streams. Ventures as such would be well suited.

                  • The Chairman …
                    23 January 2016 at 7:55 pm

                    Water is a public resource that the public (via the Government or council) should benefit/capitalize from. Opposed to practically giving it away to foreign owners, allowing them to profit from it.

                    The way we’re giving it away,some would think we’ve got money to splash around.

            • The Chairman 4.1.2.1.1.2
              23 January 2016 at 11:28 am

              Practically giving the water away helps build their profitability.

              There are no royalties being paid.

              What costs are you speaking of?

              • weka …
                23 January 2016 at 11:34 am

                I’ve already named some of them. Look at the carbon footprint of production and transport for starters. Then look at packaging and other pollutants.

                • The Chairman …
                  23 January 2016 at 12:00 pm

                  I was referring to the costs you stated the rules placed outside the business.

                  The company would meet their own carbon, packaging and transport costs.

                  Their footprint would be no worse than a number of other exporters.

                  • weka …
                    23 January 2016 at 12:44 pm

                    “The company would meet their own carbon, packaging and transport costs.”

                    Pretty sure that the company is not paying for the pollution it is causing via production, transport, packaging and waste. Happy for you to prove otherwise.

                    “Their footprint would be no worse than a number of other exporters.”

                    Quite, which is why a relatively geographically isolated country like NZ should be taking climate change into account in its export strategy.

                    Internal transport is often more of an issue too, the ecological footprint in NZ is bad because we rely on trucking so much.

                    • The Chairman …
                      23 January 2016 at 8:00 pm

                      Pollution from production would be covered within their fuel costs

                      Similar with transport, packaging and waste.

                      Who are you suggesting pays the company’s running costs?

                      Due to our debt based money supply (the principal of which enters the economy while the interest incurred has to be seeked offshore) nations are required to export to maintain and grow their wealth.

    • The Chairman 4.2
      23 January 2016 at 9:22 am

      Disgusting.

    • weka 4.3
      23 January 2016 at 10:29 am

      “It had previously told the Ministry of Health the standards were unfair, as much of the district’s water was consumed by animals.”

      Fucking unbelievable. Is that stupidity, ignorance or hubris? (all three I guess).

      So this would be the area where the Regional Council was sacked and replaced with appointees on the basis that the councillors were incompetent?

      Meanwhile, here’s Sam Mahon speaking from the heartland (he talks about the Hurunui as well as other rivers in the area).

      https://www.facebook.com/choosecleanwaternz/videos/1689867331298547/

      https://www.toko.org.nz/petitions/choose-clean-water-set-swimmable-as-the-standard-for-all-lakes-and-rivers-1

      http://www.choosecleanwater.org.nz/

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.3.1
        23 January 2016 at 1:56 pm

        “Fucking unbelievable”

        My initial reaction too.

        I know the Misery of Health is not renowned for its interventionism…but this is…..fucking unbelievable. And the CDHB backing up the council….what is that all about? I thought they had ace shit stirer Medical Officer Alistair whosit speaking up on water quality.

        Beggars belief.

        Unless…the plan is to force the humans to move…more water for the animals.

  5. Manuka AOR 5
    23 January 2016 at 7:41 am

    Glenn Greenwald writes on the establishment reactions and at times systematic attacks on both Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders: https://theintercept.com/2016/01/21/the-seven-stages-of-establishment-backlash-corbynsanders-edition/

    Excerpt:
    “Bernie Sanders is nowhere near as radical as Corbyn; they are not even in the same universe. But, especially on economic issues, Sanders is a more fundamental, systemic critic than the oligarchical power centers are willing to tolerate, and his rejection of corporate dominance over politics, and corporate support for his campaigns, is particularly menacing. He is thus regarded as America’s version of a far-left extremist, threatening establishment power.”

    • Naturesong 6.1
      23 January 2016 at 10:41 am

      I wouldn’t support Bradford in this position. Because politics.

      I believe Bradford has the skills and ability to do an excellent job. However her energy and unabashed fight for justice means she has been smeared and maligned by PR companies and politicians for years.
      This has led to the rump of the NZ electorate simply turning off Bradford’s voice, filtering it out.
      It’s shitty and unfair. But there it is.

      A more moderate face would be better suited to the job of getting NZ to recognise the violence it rains down upon its citizens.

      • Murray Simmonds 6.1.1
        23 January 2016 at 5:20 pm

        “A more moderate face would be better suited to the job of getting NZ to recognise the violence it rains down upon its citizens.”

        By, that, Naturesong, do you mean “an appointee who is more sympathetic to the Right wing and its antisocial policies”?

        • Naturesong 6.1.1.1
          23 January 2016 at 8:38 pm

          No.

          One that doesn’t start with the disadvantage of having been the target of smears and negative PR campaigns for almost two decades.

          I would be fine with someone more radical than Bradford if they were less well known.

  7. Shane Le Brun 7
    23 January 2016 at 8:13 am

    I see on social media that Marama Davidson has been lending some moral support to Peter Dunne’s gradual moves on Medical Cannabis, only to be attacked by all and sundry in the recreational crowd, (NORML, Cannabis party) for the stance.
    A seismic shift has occurred politically on the issue for the Greens to be on the Same page as UF, unrecognized by those wanting full reform.

    Check out our new website.
    http://mcadvocacynz.org/

    • Sabine 7.1
      23 January 2016 at 9:20 am

      Why do you consider Norml and Cannabis Party to be for recreational use only?

      Why not make the plant legal for medicinal use and recreational use, created jobs, raise tax revenues, keep the prisons empty and such. And be done with it?

      If anything i think lending support to Peter Fn Dunne is somewhat a tepid approach, as clearly he could get things started much faster. Remember, he had no issue allowing for ‘legal highs’ or synthetic Greenery ( i don’t want to call it weed as that would be an insult to the actual plants – weeds have a purpose in life), and they have been proven to be a danger to the physical and mental health to the users of that substance.

      So frankly, in this day and time, anybody not calling for the full decriminalization of the plant could be as well just silent.

      But i guess maybe Peter Fn Dunne feels special when he gets the application for the right to use medicinal marijuana from terminally ill people or people suffering painful afflictions that make life miserable.
      Or maybe our doctors need to re-study and re-research all the things that others have already studied and researched a thousand times.

  8. Julia Schiller 8
    23 January 2016 at 8:50 am

    I have lived in the blue Tamaki electorate since moving to New Zealand in 2000, and last year I took over as chair of Tamaki Labour LEC.

    Today we take the fight against privatisation to St Heliers, where SOE NZ Post has planned to close its busy, friendly, spacious post shop and shunt some of the services up the road to Take Note, as they are doing at many other locations. Kiwibank will be particularly crippled by this, as new customers for accounts and mortgages would have to go downtown or to Pakuranga to be serviced.

    We will be petitioning outside the St Heliers library from 9 AM. Judith Collins now lives in this electorate and the MP, Simon O’Connor, who clearly never stood up for the post shop to remain as is, thinks it’s great that the services remain–even though NZ Post is contractually obliged to provide them at a certain number of locations.

    The decision was not announced in the local paper, the East and Bays Courier. The news comes at a time when many are on summer holiday and seniors organisations on hiatus. O’Connor posted about it on Neighbourly, but only sign-up members can read his words there.

    This should be interesting! I hope to live to tell the tale.

    • Paul 8.1
      23 January 2016 at 9:16 am

      Good luck.
      You are in the lions’ den.

    • Naturesong 8.2
      23 January 2016 at 10:23 am

      This was done in Glen Eden recently.

      The Postshop / Kiwibank branch services were sold to a private operator.
      Now, when I do my banking there, my business and personal financial details are viewed by people who are not employed by the bank.

      Before the changeover several people in the community tried to raise awareness about the issue by talking to people and disemminating information about the change.

      The folks (3 or 4 middle aged folks) were shadowed the whole time by private security guards which put off all but the hardiest souls from speaking to them.

      This behaviour of intimidation toward people in local communitues who still believe that NZ still has a functioning democracy is as mindless as it is foolhardy.

    • Colonial Viper 8.3
      23 January 2016 at 11:20 am

      Is our Michael Cullen still the chair of the board of directors of NZ Post?

      Maybe you could appeal to him. LOL.

      More seriously, a blue voting comfortable middle class electorate with plenty of social capital can apply a lot more influence to keep their services than other areas.

      • Julia Schiller 8.3.1
        23 January 2016 at 11:49 pm

        Yes, he is. Shame!
        I agree, that’s part of why I wanted to take up this fight. And to my surprise, people were very receptive. I’d say about 80% of passersby wanted to sign. We got 333 signatures today and will go back tomorrow from 1-4.

    • Tautuhi 8.4
      23 January 2016 at 12:21 pm

      Corporate play eliminate the opposition?

  9. Tautoko Mangō Mata 9
    23 January 2016 at 9:09 am

    TPP – does this make you feel any better about this dodgy deal?

    Froman: Implementation Plans One Way To Address Lawmakers’ TPP Demands
    U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman said Wednesday (Jan. 20) that the administration is looking at addressing objections raised by business groups and members of Congress about the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement through implementation plans and the way the agreement is enforced.

    http://insidetrade.com/

    The following information will give you some idea of how corporations use tribunals to provide political pressure to change laws which protect the consumer.
    First here is a short video (2mim39s) explaining why Country of Origin Labelling COOL for meat was removed in the US.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILYAJ64Atw

    In December, Congress passed a spending bill that included a repeal of a law requiring meat to be labeled with its country of origin. The repeal of the legislation came after the World Trade Organization threatened to impose billion-dollar sanctions against the United States, saying the label law violated trade deals.

    And the history of this is, the U.S. meatpacking industry, plus their Canadian and Mexican counterparts, didn’t want this law. And they tried in federal court. They tried to fight us in Congress. It only took 50 years, we finally won. The law becomes the law of the land. And the polling shows 90 percent of Americans love that law. Well, when they couldn’t win in the democratic process of our courts, of our Congress, these interests went to a trade tribunal. Mexico and Canada challenged the law at the WTO in one of the trade tribunals, saying this violates the U.S. obligations at the WTO. And the tribunal, one tribunal after another after an appellate one, they said yes. The U.S. government even changed the law to address the technical errors that the WTO tribunal pointed out. And again, we lost the appeal. So, basically, Canada and Mexico, at the end, were in a position, because this is how it works, to say to the U.S., “Either kill the law or pay $2 billion in trade sanctions every year”—every year—for the right of knowing where our meat comes from. And the Congress said, “Oh, oh, my god, trade war. Let’s avoid the sanctions.” And they gutted the law. So, if you go to the grocery store now, you’re going to notice that’s gone.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/7/mystery_meat_after_wto_ruling_us

    • weka 10.1
      23 January 2016 at 10:56 am

      It’s time we got used to the fact that water is a finite resource and that in a climate change world we’re going to feel the squeeze. Fortunately it’s possible to garden with a lot less water than we are used to, just a matter of learning and changing our practices.

      • Naturesong 10.1.1
        23 January 2016 at 11:12 am

        I disagree.

        Water is a finite resource only in as much as we are destroying the infrastructure that produces it.

        If we reverse the systematic degradation of our green infrastructure we get more clean water.

        • weka 10.1.1.1
          23 January 2016 at 11:43 am

          True, but in any given catchment there is only so much water you can take out for human use because you start degrading the environment. In that sense it’s a finite resource. If we want to limit our use and/or population then it’s true that it’s also renewable.

          In NZ we have a tendancy to think that water is limitless, because relatively speaking we have a lot. But if we look at the infrastructure of many NZ towns and cities we find that there are limits there too once the population exceeds the capacity of the water to recycle throught natural systems. So economics (in it’s neutral sense) is at play as well.

          It’s better I think to understand the natural limits of where we live and work within them rather than treating the natural world as infinite.

          • Naturesong 10.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2016 at 12:05 pm

            Integration of green infrastructure within built environments will also be key.

            Currently most rain hitting rooftops and roads goes straight out to sea.
            Higher quality design to turn this water from marine pollutor to a productive resource is needed.

            The next centurys game changing tech will revolve around efficiency of energy and resource use.
            Decentralising sources of common resources like water, power etc will be part of this.

            • weka 10.1.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2016 at 12:47 pm

              yep pretty much agree with all of that. And going back to the gardening thing, changing how we view what a garden is for. There’s some interesting stats from the US about lawns and water and fossil fuel use to maintain them even when the lawns aren’t being used for anything. First world problems turning into everyone’s problem.

      • The Chairman 10.1.2
        23 January 2016 at 11:20 am

        Water is a renewable resource.

        Shortages are largely a failure to increase and create new catchments to keep up with demand and the odd dry spell.

        • weka 10.1.2.1
          23 January 2016 at 11:45 am

          You are wrong Chairman. I’m on my way out the door, but try googling what is happening to the rivers in California that no longer reach the sea due to increases in infrastructure use. There is only so much water no matter how many ways you find to capture it, and creating new catchments is just another form of capture. The people downstream from you lose out.

          • The Chairman 10.1.2.1.1
            23 January 2016 at 12:17 pm

            We don’t face that problem (rivers that no longer reach the sea). And sea levels are rising.

            If caught and stored when in abundance, no one misses out .

            • weka 10.1.2.1.1.1
              23 January 2016 at 12:54 pm

              I don’t know where you live but we already have problems with rivers not running true due to irrigation take. Have a look at the Sam Mahon link I posted upthread. And the reason it’s not as bad as California is because we haven’t done as much damage yet, but every indicator is that we are following the same path.

              “If caught and stored when in abundance, no one misses out.”

              That’s a nonsensical statement. In reality if you catch and store water in a dam you and then use that water to irrigate paddocks instead of letting to flow in the river, then you are by definition depriving those downstream of the water. This is precisely what happens.

              In the case of the Wellington water patrollers it’s easy to write that off as infrastructure mismanagment, but from what I can tell in a number of areas in NZ the catchments are now not entirely sufficent for the population and use. It’s the same with hydro. There is only so much water that can be stored in the lakes, and only so many rivers that can be dammed, and then we’re at the limit.

              I seem to remember the Kapiti Coast council some years ago asking people to look at putting dry landscape gardens in because they needed to reduce water take. But that’s a relationship between water availability and use and infrastructure. You seem to think that there is always the same amount of water falling from the sky. There isn’t (and if we take from the aquifers, it’s not the same there either). This is the stark reality of climate change.

              It’s not all bad news. We do have a lot of really good sustainability tech available now to make much better use of the water we have. But the idea that water is infinite is making us treat it in a very cavalier manner.

              • The Chairman …
                23 January 2016 at 1:26 pm

                Water for irrigation can also be captured and stored.

                Capturing and storing water increases ones supply, thus making it available for greater use.

                The fact I stated we do this when water is in abundance (the rainy season when peak flows are high) clearly highlights I don;t think that there is always the same amount of water falling from the sky.

                Catchments not being entirely sufficient for the population and use overtime largely comes down to a failure to increase or create new catchments.

                Kapiti council wasted ratepayer money on water meters, opposed to building new catchments.

                Do you believe it’s going to completely stop raining at some stage?

                • weka …
                  23 January 2016 at 2:13 pm

                  Of course not, don’t be stupid. You seem to be ignoring physics. There is only so much rainfall in a year. That equals x litres that can be stored and then there is no more. Why is that so hard for you to account for in your argument?

                  The only thing you could realisitically argue is that we are very far from our upper limit of capture and storage of available rainfall. Is that what you mean?

                  btw, did you watch the Sam Mahon clip?

                  • The Chairman …
                    23 January 2016 at 8:03 pm

                    Yes, there is only so much rainfall per annum. And the majority of that goes back out to sea. Giving scope for plenty more to be captured and stored.

                    • weka …
                      23 January 2016 at 10:14 pm

                      Right, so your argument is that there is excess water in the landscape that we can capture and use and therefore we don’t have to limit growth until some later time that’s not an issue yet. Did you watch the Mahon clip? I’m guessing not. Your theory doesn’t stack up in practice. I suspect you see rivers as mere tubes that transport water to the sea instead of being the critical centre points of the whole ecosystems they exist within. I can’t teach you the kind of ecoliteracy needed to understand this if you can’t even get the basic physics right.

                    • DoublePlusGood …
                      24 January 2016 at 10:35 am

                      And then completely fucking up the function of the river systems, causing an ecological disaster, failure of aquifers used for water supplies, failure of recreational fisheries – the list goes on and on. There are limits to what you can take, and in many places in New Zealand we are at those limits.

  11. Chooky 11
    23 January 2016 at 10:08 am

    ‘Britain had more motivation to kill Aleksandr Litvinenko than Russia, brother claims’

    https://www.rt.com/news/329804-litvinenko-brother-britain-murder/

    • weka 11.1
      23 January 2016 at 10:54 am

      I listened to a bit of the RNZ coverage yesterday where the Brits were all indignant. As if they don’t kill people when they need to. Unfortunately I had also just watched Spectre, lol, but the whole what the secret services are for thing and how now democracy is seen as old fashioned seemed pertinent. Bold faced liars the lot of them.

    • Stuart Munro 11.2
      23 January 2016 at 11:26 am

      Britain would not have used polonium – the traces last too long.

      But we should deal with the truth, not the counterfactual. Putin had him killed, as he has had numerous political enemies killed, from Politkovskaya to Nemtsov.

      Poison seems to be ‘in’ in Russia at present – You will recall that Yushchenko was poisoned too.

    • Psycho Milt 11.3
      23 January 2016 at 5:43 pm

      “The Russians had no reason to want Alexander dead,” he said. “My brother was not a spy, he was more like a policeman…he was in the FSB [Russian Federal Security Service] but he worked against organized crime, murders, arms trafficking, stuff like that.”

      Er, working against organised crime in Russia effectively is working against the government. That’s why he was living in the UK, not Russia, and why the people running Russia didn’t want him talking to European prosecutors about their “business” dealings.

  12. Sabine 12
    23 January 2016 at 10:47 am

    ooops
    and the pentagon is not quite sure just how many weapons it has ‘lost’ to Daesh/Isis.

    Ever have the feeling that really we are just so fucked? Does this feel like we are winning?
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/why-iraq-black-hole-american-arms

    For more than a decade, the United States has supplied huge quantities of weapons and military hardware to the Iraqi government—and a large chunk of that equipment has disappeared and landed in the hands of ISIS fighters and members of Iranian-backed Shiite militias responsible for massacring civilians. Everything from M-16s and bullets to Humvees and tanks have been lost. But neither the US nor Iraqi governments can say how much US-supplied materiel has been diverted to militant groups or how it’s ending up there…………………………………….

  13. The lost sheep 13
    23 January 2016 at 11:49 am

    A comment just as relevant to the NZ Left as the British….

    “True, we don’t have a communist movement any more. But we do without doubt have a revived left in Britain, which has dusted off some of the same ambitions, some of the same political ideas, some of the same historic dreams and some of the same deep flaws, foolishness and even intellectual turpitude that made British communism unsustainable.

    This left of today looks to me suspiciously as if it is developing into another church. This left too is marked by a reluctance to ask necessary but difficult questions about its plans for the world beyond the church walls. This left too seems happiest as a fellowship of true believers, squabbling among itself, dismissive of all those who remain sceptics or whose beliefs the elders find unacceptable. Just as the communists knew things deep down that they should have faced up to, so too does this left.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with having a politics that is essentially a religion, providing that you recognise it for what it is, something personal between you and your friends. But I’ve been there and done that. If politics is an act of faith – rather than a programme and a willingness to change and adapt to new times – it will fail, as communism did. That’s fine for those for whom belief in socialist principles matters more than anything else, just as it was for the communists. But it won’t work. And in the end people will hate it too.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/22/communist-family-politics-religion

    • whateva next? 13.1
      23 January 2016 at 2:20 pm

      Gawd……where to start

    • whateva next? 13.2
      23 January 2016 at 2:21 pm

      Gawd, where to start? what about taking a look back at 1945 in the UK, to see just why the Labour Party won?

      • The lost sheep 13.2.1
        23 January 2016 at 7:15 pm

        Look back 70 years?
        Love your sense of irony!

        • whateva next? 13.2.1.1
          24 January 2016 at 5:31 pm

          …..except living conditions of the masses in pre- 1945 UK looking alot closer than 70 years ago, feels like today, that’s what happens when you put Tories in charge though….soon we will be focused solely on monetary returns and workers will have no rights/health and safety irrelevant/social housing switched back to landlord’s goldmine/power and control the sole focus of the police etc…..oh, what’s that I hear you say?

  14. Poission 14
    23 January 2016 at 2:06 pm

    stay out of washington dc very scary warning.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZXFI7GU8AAo4jj.jpg

  15. Once was Tim 15
    23 January 2016 at 2:40 pm

    The difference between NuZull and American mainstrean media
    NuZull: Ugh uh uh arr ur a a goan Oik oik Skins de ugh eer um hear uld derr blah Stuff en um arrhhh sceart de bluh bluh um ar ugg rilly rilly umerr Joan de Loam um sully buch in um de ugh hootun

    Umerrika: Urrr de urr urrr urrr, da urrr the Don de urr Hilurrrry im urrrrrr rrrrr rrr breaking urrr rrr de urrr fux extrurrr gotta go to brrrrreak de urr urr urrr Trump rrrrr Adiss on Coopa d rrrrr Fux Noose errr ahh rrrrrrrrrrrrrr

  16. sabine 16
    23 January 2016 at 2:50 pm

    rent increases of $ 100 per week, surely the can just move away if they can’t afford it?

    Oh hang on it is not Auckland, it is Queenstown!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/75566565/queenstown-accommodation-crisis-may-force-business-owner-out-of-town

  17. Jenny Kirk 17
    23 January 2016 at 5:12 pm

    Let’s Not Lose Our Tempers: If John Key Wants A Riot Outside Sky City – Don’t Give Him One!

    Chris Trotter on BowalleyRoad today is suggesting that ShonKey is wanting a street riot against TPPA signing outside Sky City to make it look as if protesters are “loony left” and not to be taken seriously. And that a street riot would just play into ShonKey’s hands and make him look good to the majority of people.

    Extracts from his blog – with a link to the full blog below.

    “ ON THE FACE OF IT John Key has made a serious tactical blunder. By insisting on hosting the signing of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) in New Zealand, just two days before Waitangi Day, at the country’s most notorious beneficiary of crony capitalism, he would appear to have given his opponents an unparalleled opportunity to rally their forces and reinvigorate their campaign.
     
     Frankly, I’m suspicious. Because John Key is not prone to making tactical blunders. Which raises the worrying possibility that the readily predictable consequences of his decision – mass protest action outside Sky City, with a high probability of violence and property damage – may be exactly what he wants to happen.
     
     The Chinese philosopher-general, Sun Tzu, wrote: “If your enemy is of choleric temper – irritate him.”………….

    My best guess is that over the summer, Key and his pollster, David Farrar, have been drilling down deep into New Zealanders’ thoughts and feelings about the TPPA. Judging by the Government’s actions, this is what they have discovered.
     
     That most New Zealanders are quite relaxed about the TPPA. Any fears Kiwis may have had about it in 2015 were allayed by a combination of Helen Clark’s pre-Christmas endorsement of the agreement, and the mainstream media’s generally positive coverage of the final draft. …………….

    If that is the case, then an angry protest, or, worse, a violent riot, outside the Sky City complex will rebound, almost entirely, to the Government’s advantage. Not only it will reinforce the prejudices of Key’s supporters, but it will also alienate those who are still making up their mind on the TPPA. …………..

    The fight against the TPPA must not be waged on the streets – where John Key wants it to be waged – but in the hearts and minds of those New Zealanders who are still not sure that the agreement will, in the end, be good for their country.
     
     If John Key wants a riot at Sky City, then that’s the very last thing the anti-TPPA movement should give him.”

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2016/01/lets-not-lose-our-tempers-if-john-key.html

    • marty mars 17.1
      23 January 2016 at 8:15 pm

      I think it’s a double bluff – key knows what he is doing and this is not designed to get a riot but to stop one out of fear (as described by trotter above).

      Think it through – this is an International event not for the nzpublic – the deal is done – he doesn’t need the meek middle to agree with him – he’s got the numbers – he wants to big note the international crew for his next job opp.

      Fuck letting him win in that bastion of skyshit.

      If we don’t fight for our rights we won’t fucking get them off these arseholes.

    • Paul 18.1
      23 January 2016 at 5:25 pm

      Humour us.

    • reason 18.2
      23 January 2016 at 7:11 pm

      Was Fisi’s poll taken in Northland ??? …………………….. 🙂

    • Once was Tim 18.3
      23 January 2016 at 7:25 pm

      – Labour has zero media (such as it is) presence?
      – The 4th Estate has been auctioned off and corrupted with clothing allowances, polling, American Express Gold cards, private equity takeovers and short term thinking?
      – Koiwois have a different perception as to what charisma is from the rest of the world?
      – Lazy is as lazy does?
      – The cult of bubbles has now infected politics as well as media?

      …. as Paul says – humour us oh wise one

    • Once was Tim 18.4
      23 January 2016 at 7:25 pm

      – Labour has zero media (such as it is) presence?
      – The 4th Estate has been auctioned off and corrupted with clothing allowances, polling, American Express Gold cards, private equity takeovers and short term thinking?
      – Koiwois have a different perception as to what charisma is from the rest of the world?
      – Lazy is as lazy does?
      – The cult of bubbles has now infected politics as well as media?

      …. as Paul says – humour us oh wise one

      • Once was Tim 18.4.1
        23 January 2016 at 7:30 pm

        Msg to Mr Prent …

        as you can see – there is a double comment and a pesky little bug.
        One comment was posted yet appears in duplicate. One comment is stored and legitimised immediately, and the other (as I type) is still going thru’ the countdown.
        Also the comment fields are not reset (below is what’s left as I typeover)

        …. as Paul says – humour us oh wise one

        (I only type a comment ONCE, then hit r e t u r n)

    • Reddelusion 19.1
      24 January 2016 at 12:10 am

      That made a lot of sense ?, not sure what he was getting at barring the socialist elite taking other people’s money and giving it away to there is nothing left to take Not sure why he did not just say that rather than hide it with waffle around loosing our way and caring

  20. joe90 20
    23 January 2016 at 9:04 pm

    Sounds familiar.

    .

    America Rising PAC, the GOP opposition network founded by Matt Rhoades and Joe Pounder, has set its sights on Jane Mayer, shopping around accusations that she has ideological bias.

    Mayer, who has been chronicling the Kochs for years, recently published a book about the rise of conservative activism by a few rich families, called “Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right.”

    […]

    It’s far from the first time Mayer has been attacked for reporting on the Kochs, and Mayer has been described as the brothers’ “public enemy no. 1,” discouraging organizations from giving her reporting awards. Allegations that Mayer plagiarized were shopped to some media outlets in 2010 but they were never published because they were proven false. Though the Kochs’ spokespeople said in the past they had no knowledge of the allegations, Mayer has said she connected the dots to the Kochs, and has alleged they hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on her.

    Asked why they were taking up the cause of defending the Kochs, Chassé they were defending their allies.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/01/america-rising-pac-sets-sights-for-koch-chronicler-jane-mayer-218081#ixzz3xvDhyCj0

  21. Tautoko Mangō Mata 21
    23 January 2016 at 9:22 pm

    TPP

    Ongoing Concerns
    Process
    The process of TPP development has not been transparent. Whilst text
    documents have been released after they have been negotiated, it is
    simply unfathomable that the modelling, assumptions and objectives of the
    modelling have not been released.
    What is the horizon of the modelling in year

    http://www.mathematicians.org.au/images/Submissions/DFATSubmissionTPPMathematiciansPartyAustraliaJan232016.pdf

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Fast Track Projects advisory group named
    The coalition Government has today announced the expert advisory group who will provide independent recommendations to Ministers on projects to be included in the Fast Track Approvals Bill, say RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones. “Our Fast Track Approval process will make it easier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-04-18T13:56:21+00:00