web analytics

Open mike 24/10/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 24th, 2012 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

89 comments on “Open mike 24/10/2012”

  1. Morrissey 1

    The “resolute and courageous” Sir Wilson Whineray
    Wednesday, October 24, 2012

    Watched an obituary item on “Sir” Wilson Whineray on TV1’s Te Karere this morning. They mentioned that the racially selected All Black team team he led to apartheid South Africa in 1960 was disparagingly called “Whineray’s Whites”. Against archival footage of massive anti-tour marches (“No Maoris No Tour”), Māori football historian Malcolm Mulholland claimed that “the decision was out of his hands” and that the people who should bear the blame for the farcical situation were “the administrators”.

    Mulholland’s implication, clearly, was that Whineray, a thoroughly decent man who found himself leading a racially selected team to play according to the dictates of an apartheid regime, was actually far better than that, and would no doubt have been opposed to the tour—-but “the decision was out of his hands”.

    Well, let’s fast-forward a couple of generations. Whineray, now impressively titled “Sir” Wilson Whineray, after retiring from football in 1965, has carved out a distinguished business career, most notably with the forest products conglomerate Carter Holt Harvey, where he was deputy managing director and then, for ten years, chairman. It’s 2003, and Sir Wilson is retiring from Carter Holt Harvey. He’s being interviewed by TV3’s John Campbell, who mentions that Carter Holt Harvey had continued to trade with Chile, in defiance of a worldwide trade union ban on trade with Pinochet’s U.S.-backed terror regime.

    Whineray did not miss a beat. “To continue to trade in such a situation,” he intoned slowly and carefully, “took considerable resolution and courage. We just did what we thought was the right thing.”

    There you have it: Sir Wilson Whineray, powerful administrator of a powerful international conglomerate, thinks he was resolute and courageous to defy human rights protests and trade bans and trade with a fascist regime. So much for Malcolm Mulholland’s theory about Whineray’s innate decency being over-ruled by “the administrators”.

    Oh, and what was John Campbell’s reaction, you ask. Campbell nodded his head, gravely, respectfully, thoughtfully, clearly overawed by the mana of the great man.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.1

      Sir Wilson ticks all the boxes really for this rugby hating leftie–conservative, tory, supporter of apartheid and Pinochet and not beloved of some NZ unionists either at CHH.

      The main argument I have with rugby is the reactionary cultural streak it has represented since colonisation. The hard man, keep playing with a broken arm or ball sack ripped open. Women bring a plate, no poofters please. Whaddarya! This style still exists in Northland for sure.

      Yet Morrisey, any critics of Sir Wilson will most likely be wasting their time as the media and the sporting orthodoxy have decided this guy deserves Ed Hillary treatment which he does not.

      • One Tāne Huna 1.1.1

        All rise for the flag salute.

      • North 1.1.2

        Tiger Mountain…….yes, the style you refer to does exist in Northland (my pseudonym might tell you something) but the truth and unashamedly being whom one is are mighty insurance and weapons if needs be.

        I have repeated personal experience, coast to coast north of Hikurangi – not so sure about Whangas wannabee Aux, of the caricature you invoke and man, people ain’t hard to turn around. Even the seeming gorillas.

        You get my meaning ?

    • North 1.2

      Hope Campbell reads your excellent post Morrissey. Email it to him.

      • Rogue Trooper 1.2.1

        God Bless you and your brothers.
        It is very sad that a brother who has served a very long time here is still being hounded by the media and those who want another pound of flesh (we have met),
        yet,
        his colla egue has not been adjacent to him since departing

  2. Rod Oram has some interesting comments on Tiwai Point in the latest SST but I cannot find it online …

    Interesting snippets were as follows:

    “The Tiwai Point aluminium smelter has no future. We can deal with its demise in an orderly and economically positive way over the next few years; or chaotically and damagingly later.
     
    It shares its fate with scores of other old smelters around the world. They were built 30-40 years ago to exploit very cheap electricity in remote places. But big changes in technology, electricity markets and the aluminium industry in the last decade have killed their economic lives.
     

     
    [China] … has … become the technology leader in smelting. One New Zealand industry expert reckons the best Chinese plant is at least twice as energy efficient as Tiwai Point, and enjoys cheaper electricity.
     

     
    At around US$2,000 a tonne currently, [Aluminium’s] price has changed little since 1980. It is by far the worst-performing mined commodity. In contrast over the same period the price of copper price has trebled and iron ore has increased eight fold, according to the IMF.
     

    Rio Tinto, which owns 79% of the Tiwai Point smelter, is a big loser thanks to an astonishingly bad deal it did in 2007. It lost its head in a bidding war for Alcan, the Canadian-based smelter, paying US$38bn, a 65% premium over the market price. Financed almost entirely by debt, it was the biggest takeover ever in the mining sector and the burden has dragged it down ever since. The assets are performing so poorly, some 80% of Rio’s profits come instead from iron ore.
     

     
    Tiwai Point, one of the assets for sale, was once a jewel of its kind, exploiting since 1971 very cheap, captive electricity. The government of the day built the Manapouri hydro scheme to supply the smelter, which has only ever paid a fraction of the price for electricity that other industrial users have.
     
    But Rio says it must have even cheaper electricity to restore Tiwai’s viability. …
     

     
    There is … a very good case that the electricity [freed by Tiwai’s closure] would create greater economic benefit if it were available to all users across the country. Manapouri, which has by far the most reliable water storage of all our hydro schemes, generates just the sort of electricity we need: renewable, base-load.
     

    So, it’s time for Rio and Meridian, Southland and New Zealand to face up to the harsh reality of Tiwai Point. The plant is no longer economically viable and, at a mere 0.8% of world aluminium output, it is irrelevant to the global industry. Subsidising it further would be a very serious economic mistake.”

    The unasked question is would you buy shares in a power company where there was likely to be a 15% glut of power on the market in the next couple of years? 
     
     

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      Very interesting, thanks.

      Seems he didn’t address the possibilities of an upgrade for the plant?

      • mickysavage 2.1.1

        No he thought the Chinese were far too efficient.  Rio Tinto have upgraded a couple of plants but have not upgraded Tiwai.  It seems they are either hoping for really, really, really cheap energy or they are going to bail.

        • Herodotus 2.1.1.1

          From memory Tiwai constructed 1/2 a pot line in the very late1990’s, I did have some involvement in a support industry at the time.

    • tc 2.2

      Ouch oh the pain of a fact based logical argument up against the NACT flog it, drill it, mine it, charter it, privatise it ethos.

      Rio and BHP Billiton have made some horrendous stuff ups, all rolled under the carpet of Iron/Gold etc covering up executive incompetance, much like Fletcher, telecom etc etc, the bigger they are …..

  3. gobsmacked 3

    More excuses and distraction from Paula Bennett …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7854125/Privacy-blunders-mount-at-Winz

    She would have to resign today, if Labour had taken my advice (but they didn’t, because they’re useless).

    Last week Bennett said of the WINZ fiasco … It ain’t gonna happen twice. (Radio Live interview). I pointed out that Labour MPs simply had to ask her in Parliament if she stood by that. Quietly get it on the record. For the next time.

    Instead, they shouted a lot. What fun for them! … and how pointless for us.

    Now it’s the next time – as predicted. And Jacinda Adern has another question for Bennett in Parliament today. Expect more shouting. No answers. And no resignation.

    • The Invisible Meerkat 3.1

       

      On Monday Fairfax Media reported the personal identification numbers (Pins) for the payment cards being rolled out to 2600 young beneficiaries were the last four digits of the card numbers.
      A signature was also required but security experts said that was no longer considered sufficient safeguard.
      Bennett has asked for a full briefing from MSD this week.
      ”But to be honest, they’re as secure as a credit card really.” 
      A lot of people still verified their credit card with a signature and, while it was not the most modern practice, MSD did not have concerns about security, she said.
      The pin was used to open the account but identity was verified by signature.
      MSD was ”quite sure” that was safe. She did not believe it raised concerns about ongoing security issues within MSD.
       
       

      Right. So if I lose my credit card, I can report it lost/stolen 24 hours a day, and I am not liable for any of the money stolen using it. Is Bennett going to guarantee that any if an 18 yr old loses their WINZ card on the weekend, someone spends an hour practicing the signature and then uses up the remaining credit at the local supermarket, that the beneficiary is going to be reimbursed that money?
       
      Who will be asking Bennett that question?

      • Dv 3.1.1

        “A lot of people still verified their credit card with a signature and, while it was not the most modern practice, MSD did not have concerns about security, she said.”

        Yep WINZ are real experts on security.

        “The pin was used to open the account but identity was verified by signature.
        MSD was ”quite sure” that was safe. She did not believe it raised concerns about ongoing security issues within MSD.”

        The PIN is PRINTED on the card!!

        AND
        HT Frank
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/119000/youth-payment-card-misuse-reported-to-minister
        “Mrs Bennett says she’s been told by retailers and others in the community that people using the cards have been selling on food or batteries. “People buy 10 cooked chickens and then go and sell them in the carpark. ”

        DUH
        Well that wasn’t expected was it!!!!!!

      • Treetop 3.1.2

        So the Work and Income card cannot be used at the self service checkout as it requires the signature to be verified.

        The comment about bulk buying chickens, next checkout operators will be required to notify Work and Income if a person buys in bulk!

    • McFlock 3.2

      I reckon that most members of this cabinet could be caught by a 6pm news crew  live on air with their dick in a sheep and they’d still not resign or even be sacked. 
             
      Which makes me wonder what Richard Worth actually did. 

    • Draco T Bastard 3.3

      If Bennett gets kicked or resigns it’s possible that this government would collapse as she would most likely be replaced by Sepuloni so neither is likely to happen.

  4. A great article here regarding the doublespeak term of “freedom” that seems so effective in getting people to vote in the rope that will hang them and cheer while doing so.

    The neoliberal battle cry of “liberty” and “freedom” through “personal responsibility” sounds wonderful on the surface, but we have to ask ourselves as individuals and as a collective nation, what are the costs of this alleged “liberty” and “freedom”?

    • freedom 4.1

      There was a great comment from a plant after the 7/7 bombings in London. A A stall holder at a market ( who other stall holders said they had never seen) was interviewed saying she would happily give up her liberty for freedom.

  5. gobsmacked 5

    We haven’t heard much from David Shearer since the Christchurch speech last week.

    He’s been busy …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/central-leader/7851879/MP-to-kick-start-festival

    • Jim Nald 5.1

      DS is currently in the wrong job.
      Grant Robertson should tell him that and thank him for keeping the seat warm.

  6. ianmac 6

    I wonder why Winston would ask this question unless he knows something that could be embarrassing to the PM?
    Q7: “Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS to the Prime Minister: When did he first learn of a German resident living in the Chrisco mansion in the Prime Minister’s electorate?”

    • karol 6.1

      Yes, interesting choice of words, because Key always focused on not remembering the Dotcom name.

      • gobsmacked 6.1.1

        I’ll bet a chocolate fish that Key “can’t recall”, and Winston gets thrown out for telling him he bloody well does.

        • blue leopard 6.1.1.1

          …and another chocolate fish placed on the bets that Mr Key will be allowed a few minutes for relaying fallacious put-downs of one or more opposition parties/members after having let us all know he can’t remember.

      • deuto 6.1.2

        Haven’t got time right now to check/find link, but IIRC at the beginning of Key’s video interview on 24 January re Dotcom (when he later went on to talk at length about DC’s resident status) Key talked about having heard “about a German resident living in the Crisco mansion”. So think Peters’ wording is taken straight from that interview. So this could be interesting in QTime.

        The video of the 24 Jan interview has been put up on TS several times – think is was included in a Herald article on 24 Jan.

        • deuto 6.1.2.1

          Update – it was annoying me so here is the link to the 24 Jan interview from Eddie’s post on 4 October.
          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_objectid=10781209&gallery_id=123534

          And my memory was correct – Key’s response to the first question talks about him being “aware of a German resident living in the house”.

          The fact that Key referred to a “German resident” stuck out for me as being rather odd – ie if the person was living here in NZ, why call him a German resident? Also the way Key lights up when he mentions having been to/or seen the Crisco mansion (pre Dotcom) made me wonder whether he had “aspirations” in respect of the property. Bit beyond his means, though. It has crossed my mind several times that Key could be jealous of Dotcom’s much bigger fortune of over $1 billion by the time DC was 38 years old – vs Key’s worth of c $50 Million.

    • Amusing! However your article requires a correction methinks. I believe the quiz master, Mr Lockwood Smith would give Mr Key a top score after having answered the questions in such a manner.

  7. ianmac 8

    Well done that man Sprout! John Key seems to be a long way ahead of Helen for whom a painting and being in a passenger car was the worst that could be ranged against her. So 10/10 for Key in the the Mis-speak race.

  8. Rogue Trooper 9

    word from Greece; it is dark there. and it is getting darker here, “day by day” according to the Greeks
    “and they are trying to cover it up here”.

    Shearer honing his precision.
    (well, I’m off to begin my franciscan journey on the bus)
    Be Well 🙂

    • muzza 9.1

      Put it this way, the Greeks are calling up their nationals from abroad to serve. I know a guy who recently got called back to Greece from London – It was not optional, he is going, I’m unsure what is service status was.

      Can’t be good, but yet Europe gets little to no coverage here

      Baaa

  9. McFlock 10

    Thank goodness for an independent judiciary: when the police break the law, the case gets thrown out.
       
    And the judge didn’t hold back criticising the police use of a false search warrant and “fake” prosecution. Judges get pissy when you take the courts for a ride.

  10. gobsmacked 11

    So … a lively question time.

    Lockwood ties himself up in knots on “hypocrisy” versus “hypocrite”. Farcical.

    Winston and Robertson turn the screws on Key (Dotcom and Banks respectively). Bennett escapes again. Norman annoys Key (as usual), Shearer doesn’t (as usual).

    Unfortunately today was the last real chance for the opposition in Parliament. Coming up: recess, Hobbits, Christmas and the summer memory hole.

    Too many opportunities have been wasted. Too many MPs can’t think on their feet, can’t work as a team (e.g. Peters attacks Key on Dotcom, no back-up from Labour), and generally under-perform. It took 20 minutes for an MP (Robertson) to use the “hypocrisy” line that Lockwood had fed them.

    New Year’s resolution for the Opposition, especially Labour – do much better.

    • freedom 11.1

      Lament for a Single Part Question
      (sung to Three Little Boys)

      Two little boys had one little toy
      Each had a wink to use
      Slyly they played each sitting day
      Warriors both of course
      One little chap then had a mishap
      absentia of the head
      American toy then cried with joy
      As his quizmaster said

      Across the House they should be crying
      but they seem more concerned with the few
      Climb up here, we’ll soon be flying
      Back to the ranks so blue
      Can you feel John I’m all a tremble, perhaps it’s the lack of noise
      But I think its they haven’t noticed I mentioned three little words

      Very soon we’ll both be leaving
      And our history will just be noise
      before then will they remember
      To use use those three little words

      -sorry Rolf

      p.s. why the moderation?

    • Anne 11.2

      Unfortunately today was the last real chance for the opposition in Parliament. Coming up: recess, Hobbits, Christmas and the summer memory hole.

      There’s still time for the Opposition parties to score a few bulls-eyes before the House rises for the year.

      Sitting days:

      October

      16, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25

      November

      6, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15, 27, 28 and 29

      December

      4, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 18, 19 and 20

      I had the impression in Q time today that Winston Peters is setting Key up for something. If it’s true, it will surely be before the end of the year.

      • Jim Nald 11.2.1

        Dunnokeyo had a moment of self-confession when he referred to himself in the third person in reply to Winston today:

        “the member makes up lots of things as he goes along”

        * * * **

        Rt Hon Winston Peters: … If and when it is proven that the Prime Minister’s knowledge of Kim Dotcom was far earlier than he has said, will he step down from his role as Prime Minister; if not, why not?
        Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No, and the reason is that—
        Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why not?
        Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well, because the member makes up lots of things as he goes along.

        • blue leopard 11.2.1.1

          @ Jim Nald,

          “Well, because the member makes up lots of things as he goes along”

          Yes I thought this was a remarkable moment of lucidity from Mr Key.

          Also found Mr Foss’s statement very dubious:

          “Hon CRAIG FOSS: It is such a good and large number—$1 billion will be spent by this Government in Christchurch on schools over the next 10 years.”

          How can “this government” spend money over 10 years when “this Government” can only ever last for 3 years? It appears that DunnoKeyO & co not only continue to place all blame for all wrongs on previous Governments; now they are starting to take credit for money that is going to be spent by future governments too.

      • ianmac 11.2.2

        Maybe wishful thinking but I suspect that Winston does have something in hand and as he has done before he likes to get repeated statements from the PM on record. At the least it might cause a little niggle in the sleep patterns of John Key.
        “I wonder what Winston actually knows? Nah. Couldn’t be – could it?”

        • Anne 11.2.2.1

          Here is Winston’s question:

          http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/15726

          Well worth a listen.

          Also had the impression Charles Chauval might have something up his sleeve too.

          http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/15729

          • RedBaron 11.2.2.1.1

            I would be very surprised if Winston doesn’t have something up his sleeve and he’ll milk it for all it’s worth.
            Remember the “great ferry bottom grounding incident” when he spent months harrying the then Minister of Transport (Richard Prebble from memory) about one of the inter islander ferries touching bottom ” going aground” in the Tory channel and Prebble couldn’t prove otherwise..

            Long after the noise died down I believe the ferry went in for it’s dry dock and “lo and behold there was a large dint in the bottom.” Better than the movies….

            Same with the winebox, he kept at it until it blew.

            He’s good at it and because of this people leak to Winston. He doesn’t shove it under the carpet.

            This is the smoke but odds on there is a fire.

    • McFlock 12.1

      what’s it about? I try not to soil my computer with that site unless absolutely necessary.

      • fatty 12.1.1

        Don’t bother McFlock…its a waste of your time.
        Its about an arrogant school principle who subscribes to the belief of disentitlement and doesn’t care about hungry children. Unsurprisingly, whale blubber holds him/her up as some sort of ethical guiding light.
        You know the old mantra…we are here to teach not feed, its the parents responsibility, I’m a selfish & crappy school principle…blah, blah, blah.

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          Cheers, thanks for that 🙂
                   
          Where would parasites be if they weren’t praised by bottom-feeders… 

        • Chalupa Batman 12.1.1.2

          Thats certainly one way of looking at it

          • One Tāne Huna 12.1.1.2.1

            Passive aggressive much? Have you the fortitude to express an opinion on the matter or are your comments simply a bag of air?

            • McFlock 12.1.1.2.1.1

              the answer to that question might be of interest to some 😉

            • Chalupa Batman 12.1.1.2.1.2

              Its interesting to hear an opinion from the education sector (a principle no less) that goes against the general feeling of that profession.

              Listening to the media or reading these blogs would have you believe that 100% of the education profession is totally on song with the same message (basically the message is National bad)

              He’s probably got a better grasp of the situation then anyone here so he should be listened to

              • McFlock

                Nope. 
                     
                The sad fact is that it trips a couple of major wires that raise doubt as to whether I should waste my time even reading it:
                 
                1: the greasy cetacean is plugging it. More often than not that site is not so much “opinion” than “slanted, distorted and factually fucked up propaganda”. 
                   
                2: a professional who “goes against the feeling” of their profession might be a great person with a valid idea, or might just be a kook or shill. Infomercials are full of them. This takes time and more importantly concentration to determine. And sometimes a degree or two in the area. Do I really care that much in order about whether teachers are entitled to sulk about feeding hungry kids?
                   
                With both of those lines tripped, I don’t care to waste my time, expose myself to the bile on that site, or indeed put my computer at risk of lso cookies.
                  

                • Chalupa Batman

                  Paranoid much?

                • Bob

                  Here you go McFlock, saves you visiting the site yourself.
                  I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on this, as this letter IMO is almost direct dividing line between the left and the right in NZ on a number of issues, those who agree with this principal (real or not) being right leaning, and those that disagree being left leaning.

                  Hi Cam

                  Thought you would be interested in an exchange that took place in my office earlier today that illustrates the utter nonsense of this “Schools Should Feed Kids’ campaign.

                  We are a rural, decile 2 school. As with every school, the decile rating only tells a very small part of the story. We have some very wealthy families at our school and a number of families that live in a very deprived setting.

                  A group from one of our Maori whanau arrived in my office this morning. They had a complaint. I’m not going to go into the detail of the complaint because they were very respectful about the way that they conveyed it and to some degree I could see where they were coming from. It was a relatively minor matter (in my view), but could see that it was very important to them, and is largely brought about by different cultural values.

                  After I (genuinely) apologised for the unintended offence caused by the actions of one of my staff the anger in the room dissipated. We got to talking about other ‘grievances’ that they wanted to bring to the surface.

                  [deleted]

                  Link again in case you are interested http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/10/thanks-john-campbell/

                  [lprent: Don’t cut’n’paste here. McFlock can go to the site if he cares to or not. But we do not like people dropping stuff they have dragged off the net whenever they feel the urge. It starts making the site a target for dumping crap.

                  If you want to draw peoples attention to something elsewhere on the net then say why (as you did) put in a few relevant quotations (I chopped your quoted down to (at most a few) succinct paragraphs and made it a blockquote) and provide a link. ]

                  • Bob

                    Iprent, I can understand your point on this, and did re-read the website policy prior to posting as I thought it would be pushing my luck a bit posting the entire letter, however, I felt that taking the first half of the letter (the part you have left above) out (which would have been my preference), would leave McFlock without the context in which the Whanau’s questions around school breakfasts came to the forefront and could sidetrack the debate.
                    As McFlock hasn’t replied, I can only assume that your edit was completed prior to his/her reading the full letter, or s/he decided not to engage in the debate so I’ll leave it.

                    Two words do come to mind through this though, Penny Bright.

                    • lprent

                      Looked at the letter. Couldn’t see a great few fully on point paras, so left the first part in as a teaser.

                      Penny is on my development list. I wonder how she will like the automatic twitter limit when I have time to finish testing it.

                    • McFlock

                      Actually missed the comment. Finally soiled myself and read the WO letter – seemed to be a pile of unattributed self-contradictory bullshit that went back to “parental responsibility”, but it was okay because he said it to some murrays and they agreed with him.

                      Everything else has been covered by others here.

                      I feel dirty. Time to scrub my machine.

                    • @McFlock,…you can’t say you weren’t warned…. 😀

                    • McFlock

                      lol
                      I know, I know…

                      contrary to what some here might think, I do actually feel remiss at disregarding something purely on the basis of its source.

                      The trouble is that every time (like now) I listen to that instinct, I end up having my bias confirmed with extreme weight.

              • Dv

                Principal!

                We have only the word of whaleoil that the email is genuine.

                • Jenny

                  Even if it was. There is no doubt, even going by this letter, that food in schools would help this family mentioned.

                  Just after the family said that they sometimes had to send their children to their aunty’s when they had no food, – in reply to this right wing imperious bully’s demand; “So are you telling me that you have no real problem having food in the house?

                  Yeah, we always have something,” came the reply.

                  This anonymous principle comes across as pompous hectoring self important prat with a political agenda. The fact that he sees himself as some sort of crusader presenting “the alternative message to the socialist propaganda” speaks volumes.

                  No wonder he wouldn’t give his name, in my opinion he is not fit to teach let alone head a school.

                  • Chalupa Batman

                    Yup he spoke against what is agreed upon by the left therefore he must be a bad teacher

                    • KJT

                      No. He denies what is reality for many families, ignoring evidence for ideology. That does make his teaching suspect. He sounds from his post like a smug patronising prat.

                    • One Tāne Huna

                      Chalupa – no – until I got to the line about “socialist propaganda” the email seemed fine(ish) – a personal opinion, not one I agree with, but you get that.

                      But the political reference blows that all out of the water. This man clearly displays his prejudice. What part of “socialist propaganda” are The Lancet’s revelations of infectious disease admissions to our hospitals? Or the clear correlation between family income and education outcomes?

                      Just another witless Tory who thinks he’s entitled to his own facts.

  11. ak 13

    Romnesia’s gone viral…..ironic, Keynesia far more deserving…..

  12. One Tāne Huna 14

    Is there a way to disable the annoying and intrusive “more info” pop-ups that serve no purpose other than to interfere with comments in the middle of authoring them?

    • Lanthanide 14.1

      Actually yes, I find these things very annoying too. I’ve just been putting up with it.

  13. Rogue Trooper 15

    In Our Fathers House are many mansions
    (each has a fire-proof door)
    It is Not made by Great Men
    ( “natural” is not in it)

    wotta ’bout these pills to avoid hangovers?; hangovers being a natural negative reinforcer (take away ya Sunday) freakin science and food and beverage priests again!

    Effective endogenous male contraception has been a long time coming though!

    helpful view
    helpful intention
    helpful speech
    helpful action
    helpful effort
    helpful livelihood
    helpful concentration
    helpful Mindfulness

    the things ya learn in a day; apparently Franciscans are often characterized as “Gods Fools”; well I’ll be a monkeys’ uncle 🙂

    according to a Brother, during the world wars, the information MI5 had on the Franciscans portrayed them as “beneath consideration”; who cares about the politics of lowly monks Right?

    “…ra ra Rasputin….”

    anyway, Sun is Shining and I been gardening.

    btw, a letter from this lady at tlig.org fell out of the heavens today.

    😉

  14. Georgecom 16

    Apparently there has been a fairly major sun flare in the past day or so. I guess the climate change deniers will be expecting to see a lift in global temperatures, given that climate change is down to sun flares they say.

    • Dv 17.1

      That report from reuters told us very little about the methodology.

      For example how many children, over what time scale, what was the IQ difference and its statistical significance for a start.

      I tried to find the original article but couldn’t.

      • McFlock 17.1.1

        This seems to be it, but without charts.
             
        Moderately interesting, but they’re talking about levels of flouride exposure to get high levels of flourosis, only to get a possible 0.45 IQ point decrease. And their review criteria excluded less obscure studies that showed the reverse. 
               
        Possibly adverse, possibly not, large samples seem to bounce negligibly either way.
             
        Not something I’d be stroking off about, myself. But the chemtrailvaccineautism brigade obviously feel confident it’s a serious threat to life, limb and inbreeding.

        • muzza 17.1.1.1

          Not something I’d be stroking off about, myself. But the chemtrailvaccineautism brigade obviously feel confident it’s a serious threat to life, limb and inbreeding.

          Its inbred central down your way eh McFlock, so no wonder you have decided that “stroking yourself” is the better option

          Your smugness, and self certainty that you understand the world, and whats going on around you, for someone who is possibly bright, is unfortunate, but standard M.O for the average person, so not especially surprising!

          Stroke on!

          • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1

            Nah, the students top up the gene pool regularly (and some of us try to reciprocate if one can tolerate The Monkey Bar or The Break).
               
            Yeah, I tend to be smug when I look at studies touted by known nutbars. For example, the first thing one looks for in relation to effects of chemical exposure is a dose-response relationship (at the most serious level, something like “dosage doubled, observed deaths quadrupled”). No levels reported in that descriptive study, so any observable effect might only occur in areas with natural flouridation well above maximum WHO recommendations. At which point all the study says is “exposure to hazardous levels of chemical A might have negative effects, almost as if there were hazards associated with those levels of chemical A”.
                  
            It’s the lack or critical thinking alongside the massive levels of spin that I find funny. Fl might well be an unacceptable hazard. But touting bumper stickers and studies without data tables isn’t going to convince me of that.

            • muzza 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Yup, and you will have noticed that all I did was post a link, which was to the reuters site, no commentary, no opinion!

              What I find funny, is people who think that their ‘critical thinking”, and sources allows them to be smug and believe they know best. There are a few on this site, and plenty in real life too, too many actually.

              Generally speaking, the world is getting worse off because attitudes of such people, but that’s the way it will be I guess, as people are generally beyond stupid already, but believe they’re not, thats the clincher!

              Monkey bars, must be a global chain of some sort, most places ive been seem to have one, and interestingly offer up the same sort of “options”.

              Stroke on McFlock, until the next outing I guess!

              • McFlock

                Use of the term “article” implies some manner of editorial review, whereas this came directly from the tinfoil hat brigade. You linked to a wire service press release that can’t even cite an article properly, let alone report its contents with any accuracy.

                Clue: “SOURCE NYS Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc.”
                Another clue: “PRESS RELEASE” occurs twice at the top of the release.
                Another clue: “Reuters is not responsible for the content in this press release” is written just below the headline.

                I assumed that you linked to this drivel because you agreed with its contents. If not, feel free to correct that assumption.
                     
                If my assumption was correct, would you similarly post a press release from the Koch brothers just because it was on Reuters? 

                • Dv

                  I wondered reason why Reuters disclaimed any responsibilty for the accuracy of the press release!!

                • muzza

                  I assumed that you linked to this drivel because you agreed with its contents. If not, feel free to correct that assumption

                  It was a poke at Reuters, of which I have made a few lately, around its link/ownership by AP, thats all!

                  Assumption – Common error made by the smug!

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Brexit vote costs NZ effective EU voice
    Despite being extremely close the result of the referendum in Britain reflects the majority voice, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “While we respect the decision to leave the EU, it goes without saying the move will usher in ...
    1 day ago
  • Pasifika Education Centre doomed
    The Pasifika Education Centre appears doomed to close down this December, says Labour’s Pacific Island Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio  “In a written question I asked the Minister whether he would put a bid in for more money. His answer ...
    1 day ago
  • Onetai Station review a shameful whitewash
    A report released today on the Overseas Investment Office’s (OIO) good character test is a whitewash that does nothing to improve New Zealand’s overseas investment regime, says Labour’s Land Information spokesperson David Cunliffe. “The review of the good character test ...
    1 day ago
  • We need a national strategy to end homelessness now
    Long before I entered Parliament, housing and homelessness were issues dear to my heart. I know from personal experience just how hard it is to find an affordable home in Auckland. In my maiden speech, I talked about how when ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    2 days ago
  • Capital feels a chill economic wind
      Wellington is on the cusp of recession with a sharp fall in economic confidence in the latest Westpac McDermott Miller confidence survey, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark.  “Economic confidence amongst Wellingtonians has dropped 12% in the past ...
    2 days ago
  • Dive school rort took six years to dredge up
    News that yet another private training establishment (PTE) has rorted the Government’s tertiary funding system since 2009 shows that Steven Joyce has no control of the sector, says Labour’s Associate Education (Tertiary) spokesperson David Cunliffe. “Like Agribusiness Training and Taratahi, ...
    2 days ago
  • National’s housing crisis hitting renters hard
    National’s ongoing housing crisis is causing massive rental increases, with Auckland renters being hit the hardest, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    3 days ago
  • A Day with the PSA
    This week, along with Labour MP Kris Faafoi, I accepted an invitation to spend a day working alongside the good folk at the Public Service Association in Wellington. As the Workplace Relations and Safety spokesperson for the Greens, I was ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    3 days ago
  • Government holds Northland back
    New information shows Northland remains the most economically depressed region in New Zealand, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Clark. “The latest Westpac McDermott Miller regional survey found that more Northlanders believe their local economy will deteriorate this year than ...
    3 days ago
  • Rebstock report into MFAT leaks a disgrace
    An Ombudsman’s report on the Paul Rebstock investigation into MFAT leaks shows the two diplomats at the centre of the case were treated disgracefully, says Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi.  “The Ombudsman says one of the diplomats Derek Leask ...
    3 days ago
  • More families forced to turn to food banks for meals
    Increasing numbers of families are having to go to food banks just to put a meal on the table, according to a new report that should shame the Government into action, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. ...
    3 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    3 days ago
  • We have a housing emergency in New Zealand
    Auckland, New Zealand, where house prices have risen 20 percent in the last year alone We have a housing emergency in New Zealand.  Like many people we are ashamed and angry that in a wealthy country like ours, we have ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    3 days ago
  • Aussie reforms signal trouble ahead for school funding plan
    Plans by the Government to return to bulk funding are likely to see increased class sizes and schools most in need missing out on much-needed resources, Labour’s Acting Education spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The signaled return to bulk funding is ...
    3 days ago
  • Toxic Sites – the down low on the go slow
    In  2011, I negotiated an agreement with the National Government to advance work on cleaning up contaminated sites across the country. This included establishing a National Register of the ten worst sites where the creators of the problem could not ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    4 days ago
  • Aucklanders face new motorway tax of up to $2500 a year
    The Government wants to tax Aucklanders thousands of dollars a year just to use the motorway network, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Officials estimate the average city commute is 11.8km. This means for the average Aucklander commuting five ...
    4 days ago
  • 15 corrupt bank managers identified in student fraud
    New information show 15 bank managers in India have been identified by Immigration New Zealand as presenting fraudulent documents on behalf of foreign students studying here, Labour’s Immigration spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “Documents obtained by Labour under the Official Information ...
    4 days ago
  • National leaves Kiwi savers the most vulnerable in OECD
    News last week that Israel’s Finance Minister will insure savers’ bank deposits means New Zealand will be left as the only country in the OECD that has no deposit insurance to protect savers’ funds should a bank fail. Most Kiwis ...
    GreensBy James Shaw
    5 days ago
  • Comprehensive plan for future of work needed
    A Massey University study showing many New Zealanders are unaware of the increasing role of automation in their workplace, highlights the need for a comprehensive plan for the future of work, says Grant Robertson, Chair of Labour’s Future of Work ...
    5 days ago
  • Another National Government failure: 90 day work trials
    On Friday last week, the Treasury released a report by MOTU economic consultants into the effectiveness of the controversial 90-day work trial legislation. The report found that there was “no evidence that the policy affected the number of hires by ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Iraq mission extension case not made
    The Prime Minister has not made the case for extending the Iraq deployment another 18 months nor the expansion of their mission, says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “Labour originally opposed the deployment because the Iraqi Army’s track record was poor, ...
    5 days ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • Denial is a long river
    William Rolleston from Federated Farmers made the absurd claim on RNZ on Saturday that “we actually have very clean rivers”. This statement doesn’t represent the many farmers who know water quality is in big trouble and are working to clean ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • Melanoma deaths could be avoided by an early access scheme
      The tragic death of Dunedin’s Graeme Dore from advanced Melanoma underlines the cruelty of this Government in promising a treatment but delaying for months, says Labour’s Health Spokesperson Annette King.  “Graeme was diagnosed with Melanoma last year. He used ...
    5 days ago
  • Assessing the Defence White Paper
    The Government’s recently released Defence White Paper has raised questions again about New Zealand’s defence priorities, and in particular the level and nature of public funding on defensive capabilities. The Green Party has a longstanding belief that priority must be ...
    GreensBy Kennedy Graham
    6 days ago
  • Kiwis’ confidence drops again: Economy needs a boost
    Westpac’s consumer confidence survey has fallen for the seventh time in nine quarters, with middle income households ‘increasingly worried about where the economy is heading over the next few years’, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This survey is a ...
    6 days ago
  • Relocation grant simply kicks can down the road
    The response by state house tenants and social agencies to the Government’s rushed plan to shift families out of Auckland tells us what we already knew – this is no answer to the chronic housing shortage, Opposition Leader Andrew Little ...
    6 days ago
  • Peace hīkoi to Parihaka
    On Friday a Green crew walked with the peace hīkoi from Ōkato to Parihaka. Some of us were from Parliament and some were party members from Taranaki and further afield. It was a cloudy but gentle day and at one ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    6 days ago
  • Children’s Commissioner right to worry about CYF transition
    The Government must listen to the Children’s Commissioner’s concerns that young people under CYF care could be ‘negatively impacted’ as the new agency’s reforms become reality, says Labour’s Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern. “Dr Russell Wills has used the second annual ...
    6 days ago
  • Bill English exaggerates PPL costs to justify veto
    The Finance Minister has used trumped-up costings to justify a financial veto against parents having 26 weeks paid parental leave, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Bill English’s assertion on RNZ yesterday that the measure would cost an extra $280 million ...
    1 week ago
  • Government must refund overcharged motorists
    Labour is calling on the Government to refund motor registration fees to three-quarters of a million Kiwi motorists whose vehicles were wrongly classified under National’s shambolic ACC motor vehicle risk rating system, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Sue Moroney says.“Minister Kaye’s ridiculous ...
    1 week ago
  • 90-day work trials an unfair failure which must change
    A new Treasury report shows the Government’s 90-day trials haven’t helped businesses and are inherently unfair, Labour’s Workplace Relations spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “The Motu report found that 90-day trial periods had no impact on overall employment and did not ...
    1 week ago
  • Massey East houses a start but Nick Smith should think bigger
    The Massey East 196-home development is a start but the Government must think bigger if it is to end the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “It is great the Government is finally realising it needs to build ...
    1 week ago
  • More changes needed to ensure fewer cases like Teina Pora’s
    Teina Pora spent 21 years behind bars for a crime he didn’t commit, shafted by a Police investigation that prioritised an investigator’s hunch over the pursuit of credible evidence. Yesterday’s announcement that the government is to pay him $2.5m in ...
    GreensBy David Clendon
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand Labour sends condolences to UK
    The New Zealand Labour Party is sickened and saddened by the murder of British Labour MP Jo Cox, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “Ms Cox was killed in cold blood while simply doing her job as a constituent MP. She ...
    1 week ago
  • Shameful refugee quota increase still leaves NZ at the bottom of the list
    Minister for Immigration Michael Woodhouse announced this week that the government will put off increasing the refugee quota by 1000 places until 2018.  It’s a shameful decision that undermines the Government’s claim that it takes its international humanitarian obligations seriously, ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Paula Bennett as a victim hard to swallow
    The National Party spin machine has gone into overdrive to try and present Paula Bennett as the victim in the Te Puea Marae smear saga, says Labour Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Bill English in Parliament today tried valiantly to paint ...
    1 week ago
  • Voters to have the final veto on paid parental leave
    New Zealanders will have the final right of veto on a Government that has ignored democracy and is out of touch with the pressures and demands on families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “Today’s decision by National to veto 26 ...
    1 week ago
  • Collins should put Kiwis’ money where her mouth is
    Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash is calling on anyone who has received a speeding ticket for going up to 5km/h over the 100km/hr open road speed limit to write to him and he will take it up on their behalf ...
    1 week ago
  • Where is the leadership on equal pay for work of equal value?
    The gender pay gap in the public service is worse than in the private sector. I’ve always found this particularly galling because I expect our Government to provide an example to the private sector on things like human rights, rather ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Kiwis’ real disposable income goes nowhere for the year
    New Zealanders’ hard work for the last year resulted in no increase in real disposable income, showing Kiwis aren’t getting ahead under National, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Today’s GDP figures reveal that real gross national disposable income per ...
    1 week ago
  • Pora case a case to learn from
    Conformation that Teina Pora will receive $2.5million from the Crown for more than 20 years of wrongful imprisonment does not fix the flaws in our system that led to this miscarriage of justice, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “The ...
    1 week ago
  • Government needs to start again with RMA changes
    The National Government’s proposed changes to the Resource Management Act have attracted more than 800 submissions, many of them critical of key aspects of the Resource Legislation Bill. There has been much criticism of the new regulation making powers given ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage
    1 week ago
  • Bennett’s briefing completely unacceptable
    It is completely unacceptable that Paula Bennett briefed her political staff on the police investigation into Hurimoana Dennis after her meeting with him, despite it having nothing to do with her social housing portfolio, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Green Building Council
    Building smarter, greener cities It will be clear to anyone who has been watching the public debate on the housing crisis that housing in New Zealand is sadly far from being economically sustainable when Auckland has the fourth most unaffordable ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Paula Bennett has more questions to answer
    It is unthinkable that Paula Bennett’s press secretary went rogue and tried to smear the reputation of someone involved in helping the homeless, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Political staff would not take such serious unilateral action without the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech on Notice of Motion on Orlando
    Mr Speaker, The Labour Party joins with the government in expressing our horror at this atrocity and our love and sympathy are with the victims and their families. Our thoughts are with the people of Orlando and of the United ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tiakina Ngā Wai – Swimmable Rivers Report June 2016
    The campaign to clean up our rivers was launched at the Green Conference at Queens Birthday weekend. However, the work prior to the launch goes back a number of years. Russel Norman and Eugenie Sage deserve full credit for the ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 weeks ago
  • We can do more: Refugee quota should be doubled
    New Zealand is a better country than National’s miserable increase in the refugee quota that ignores our obligations to the international community and people in need, says Opposition Leader Andrew Little. “It is a sad day when the Government can’t ...
    2 weeks ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere