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Open mike 27/02/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:03 am, February 27th, 2014 - 227 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

227 comments on “Open mike 27/02/2014”

  1. Paul 1

    Paul Buchanan very interesting on the government’s involvement in 5 eyes and consequences for NZ.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/237394/revelations-of-nz-spying-to-come-analyst

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      Several questions arise.

      Is Waihopai and/or other New Zealand-based hardware essential to the five eyes network?

      The consequences of withdrawal? Pros and cons.

      The consequences of the status quo? Pros and cons.

  2. bad12 2

    A couple of days ago ‘Open Mike’ kicked off with the first 3 comments pointedly opposing the Labour plan to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67,(i really should stop living in the past i know),

    This struck a bit of a chord and in a couple of hours of comments i managed to count to 15 the number of commenters who oppose the plan to raise the age of entitlement,(that’s not an exact total as i only had the use of two hands worth of digits and thumbs,plus the use of a foot where i did notice that a thumb isn’t apparent and had to use a big toe),

    What’s it worth out there in the wider electorate in terms of votes this raising of the age of entitlement for super???, my guess,and, this includes the belief that this one policy flogged repeatedly by Phill Goff during the 2011 election campaign cost Labour then at least 2% of the vote, is that as it was last time round their is a deep vein of opposition among what could/should be the core Labour Party vote to this policy, in numbers probably 2-5% of that vote,

    CV and others have pointed out that raising the age of entitlement isn’t Labour Party policy based upon the will of the shop floor, for some unfathomable reason the decision on this was left to Labour’s MP’s, and for an even more unfathomable reason those MP’s have chosen to cling to such a vote losing hangover of the Neo-Liberal economic Ism,

    David Parker, Labour’s finance spokesman, to me a shadowy figure who says little that is publicly broadcast can hardly be trusted as anything other than a ‘Rogernome’ after the bizarre ”There is no Alternative” comment over this very issue a few weeks back, and, ACT’s backing of the same policy this week does not cast Parker in any better light,(in my opinion),

    There are Alternatives, to raising the age of superannuation, and, as i have alluded to above, this issue unless handled delicately may just cost Labour the 2014 election, trotting out the hated Ruth Richardson ”There is no Alternative” is hardly delicate and there are other options,

    (1),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement for Superannuation as it is and raise taxation to pay for the bulge in costs as the Baby Boomer generation reaches retirement age,

    (2),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement as it is, BUT,means test the pension against income from wages and assets,

    (3), The Labour policy, raise the age of entitlement to 67, there is no visible promise to not revisit this in the future with another imperative,(TINA),to again raise the entitlement age to 70 which in some overseas jurisdictions is occurring now, AND,once the Baby Boomer bulge has been successfully negotiated there is again no visible promise to lower the age of entitlement back to 65 which makes me even more distrustful of the proponents of raising the super age to 67,

    Is this one policy of Labour’s one that could be the difference of being the Government or the Opposition after the 2014 election, my view You Bet, and, Labour need back away from this policy NOW, but, NOW with a plan,

    i would propose that Labour loudly and with the maximum amount of publicity back away from the current policy of raising the age of entitlement to superannuation and propose to the electorate a Referendum on this very issue at the 2017 election,

    Such a referendum would have to include options 2 and 3 above, and, from the comments here in ‘open mike’ a couple of days ago,(i know i have to move on from the past), my view is option 2 above would be the popular view,

    If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30′s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….

    • Rosie 2.1

      “If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30′s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….”

      Do it. Tell him. This policy is a headache. It’s alarming that they even raised it, but are now sticking to it.

      • bad12 2.1.1

        i may in my comment above look like i might be being a little ‘shifty’ when i talk of the Baby Boomer generation as the imperative to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67, as the current ”narrative” has moved on from the Baby Boomers,

        Using ‘averages’ the current claim surrounding the need to raise the age for super entitlement is that ”we are all living longer”,

        i would suggest to everyone that such is simply another Neo-Liberal LIE, ‘we’ in the blinkered view of the Neo-Lib’s specifically does not include the 300–500,000 in the bottom end of the income brackets more likely as not to be providing the heavy labour to the economy in order to win their daily bread,

        myself, hell if i actually hit 65 i am going to announce a modern miracle, demand to be declared a Saint, and, also demand the right to levitate,(i’m working on the latter)…

        • Rosie 2.1.1.1

          Hi bad12. Yeah, that whole “we are living longer” is a fairly fragile argument. It’s has to be considered how well we live and how there may be a smaller percentage, i.e., those able to afford good healthcare, good housing, good food and have low stress jobs that are the ones “living longer”.

          I’m sure if it were to be analysed as it probably has some where, that those living longer in the future will only be those who have access to the above good things in life. That big chunk of lower income worker’s you are referring to above currently have decreasing access to healthcare, good housing and stable jobs, as a result of govt policy over the last thirty years, plus theres the group of those that do manual labour whose bodies will wear out faster (as you point out).

          I wonder if that “bell curve” in the stats will begin to decline as time goes on and as govt policy starts impacting negatively on longevity.

          • Rosie 2.1.1.1.1

            PS. Good luck with the Sainthood.

            • greywarbler 2.1.1.1.1.1

              I’m interested in seeing the levitation myself. Saints are usually a bit boring. I don’t think bad12 is cut out for sainthood, he should hang out in a more interesting ‘hood.

              • bad12

                Greywarbler, how would you know the extent of being intersting or not as far as the particular hood i hang out in is,

                Not cut out for Sainthood,hell born into a low socio-economic Porirua family with one parent an alcoholic and the other addicted to pharmacy products, putting aside the ‘innoncence’ question for the moment, i have done the jail tour from Invercargill to Pare Max, and, been binned a number of times so the men in white coats can check out what makes me tick, and that was just the first 22 years,

                There’s gotta be more than a couple of brownie points in a life lived less than ordinary and the way i see it all i have to do is find this God deity that everyone bangs on about and run a Slippery tax switch line or two past Her/Him to fix that ‘innocence’ issue, and, it’s a shoe in…

                • greywarbler

                  And again I say, lo to you, bad12 you are too good for sainthood. And I think I guessed pretty well that the particular hood you hang out in is far from boring and saintly. From what you say it confirms my guess. But you could make a great movie about your life, sort of like that Peter Fonda one I think called Easy Rider.
                  Have you had anything to do with Jim Moriarty?

                  • bad12

                    Greywarbler, nah i was doing my penal penance way befor Jim got involved, ah i think you have been slightly tainted in your views of the saints by the Biblical versions,

                    The drunken, womanizing, brawling Saints of old Ireland would seem to be more my ‘style’…

                    • greywarbler

                      Those old Catholics certainly seemed to enjoy the temporal in a more straightforward way than some of the sanctimonious ones that have shamed their calling of recent times.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz, old old Ireland befor the Isms of religion turned the heads of the population away from the magic…

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2

            I wonder if that “bell curve” in the stats will begin to decline as time goes on and as govt policy starts impacting negatively on longevity.

            I believe it will. I understand that it’s already happening in the US whose policies we’ve blindly followed for the last 30 years.

      • greywarbler 2.1.2

        It’s time we knew more about David Parker. Briefly – as per Wikpedia.
        Background
        From South. Went to Uni Otago studying law and business. Co-founded Dunedin Community Law Centre.
        Was litigation partner in law firm. Then was in business in agri-buiotech field inluding Blis Technologies where was manager.
        In parliament 2002 winning victory in the Otago seat.
        Lost in 2005 to Jacqui Dean but returned on List.
        2008 stood for Waitaki but Jacqui Dean won by over 11,000 votes, but returned as on List.

        Was in 2005 Attorney-General and Minister of Energy & Minister of Transport &
        Minister…Climate Change
        Resigned over legal query then reappointed
        Regained Energy and Climate Change Land only in 2006.
        2008 On Labour’s loss, he became Opp spokesperson Conservation ACC and Shadow Attorney-General.
        2010 Opp Leader Phil Goff appointed Parker Spokesperson for Ec Development (from Shane Jones) – Conservation went to Chris Carter.
        Parker RAN for leadership in 2011 but withdrew to support David Shearer.
        Now Labour sp/person for Finance (late 2011) and shadow Attorney-G (Feb 2013).
        At 17 September 2013 named Deputy Leader of Labour Party with Finance Portfolio.

        Where has he shown a particular interest in finance? Where has he indicated a particular interest in micro-economics or in national building? It seems as if the mantle has been bestowed by Phil Goff. And he has not been a shining success either in the electorate or good enough background to be appointed to the Finance position.

        Our problem is one of working hard and then metaphorically going out and losing our putea in the casino or pissing it away? Exactly the behaviour of a majority of hard working men of old colonial times. Time for an innovative change not the same old, same old. (And not prohibition either, not that sort of radical.)

        Raising the old age pension age to 67 and beyond is merely delaying exercising the little grey cells. Where is Poirot when you need him?

    • Enough is Enough 2.2

      Excellent comment Bad12.

      This is a policy which ACT supports. That should ring alarm bells automatically.

      Let your local Labour MP know that this is BAD policy. The Labour party should not be about austerity and cutting entitlements to the workers of this country.

    • srylands 2.3

      I think the problem is that in the next 10 years the age will lift to 67 or higher because there is no alternative. The Treasury knows there is no alternative – same applies to the financial markets, the OECD. So Labour might was well do it and get the credit from the markets and the OECD – that could be a real boost. If it stays at 65 we will look like an outlier internationally.

      An increase will also enable fiscal consolidation, higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.

      I also think it would be a vote winner for Labour. I hope that David Parker prevails in the debate. He is s one of Labour’s more sensible front benchers.

      • millsy 2.3.1

        Too bad it will send thousands of elderly into poverty and crowd younger people out of the job market…

      • Enough is Enough 2.3.2

        drylands there is always an alternative.We have a choice

        This is the favoured alternative from ACT, Labour and people like Ruth Richardson and Roger Douglas.

        Look to the Greens for another alternative.

        A truly progressive tax system is a real alternative

        • srylands 2.3.2.1

          “A truly progressive tax system is a real alternative”

          The tax system is already highly progressive.

          • phillip ure 2.3.2.1.1

            “..The tax system is already highly progressive..”

            not really..

            ..it goes up a slight slope..

            ..and then kind of peters out..

            ..a very low top rate compared to other countries..

            ..no capital gains tax..(unlike most other countries..)

            ..and the ability to claim back all of their gst..(unlike the poor..who pay every last cent of it..)

            ..makes life for the rich in new zealand..

            ..a sweet sweet ride..

            ..’progressive’..?..

            ..nah..!

            phillip ure..

            • Danske 2.3.2.1.1.1

              Mr Ure, despite your protestations New Zealand does not need more taxes. We need less, and a more effective distribution of the tax intake.

              • @ danske..

                ..no..we need a higher top-rate..a capital gains tax..

                ..(and a tax-free band at the bottom..)

                ..a financial transaction tax on inter-bank dealings..

                ..and a focus on getting back that $5 billion in criminally-avoided tax by the (mainly) tory elites/corporates..each and every year..

                ..and then ‘a more effective distribution of the tax intake’..

                ..will be easy/in order..

                ..phillip ure..

              • weka

                “Mr Ure, despite your protestations New Zealand does not need more taxes. We need less, and a more effective distribution of the tax intake.”

                Danske, why?

              • Enough is Enough

                Danske, how daft are you?

                How can you during a debate about how unaffordable superannuation is, claim we do not need more taxes?

                • Danske

                  You are the daft one, I’m afraid. The age needs to go up. No ifs or buts.

                  • Enough is Enough

                    Danske. It is opportunity cost isnt it.

                    Old people are a drain on society. There is going to be more of them making them a bigger drain. That is a fact we all agree on.

                    The ACT/Parker solution is we simply cut entitlements to those workers who have contibuted thoughout their working lives so that rich pricks can buy another investment property further distorting the property market.

                    That is the guts of it.

                    This nation can afford to look after its elderly workers. There is no need for austerity.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      +111

                      This raising of the retirement age is nothing more than giving more of our wealth to the already rich.

                  • Pasupial

                    Danske

                    No argument, no evidence; just bald assertion.

                    Daft is too complimentary a description of your debating style.

              • James Thrace

                Danske Mobler – NZ already has some of the lowest taxes in the world.

                Deborah Russells excellent comments to ColonialViper on her guest post highlighted how the effective tax rate for high income earnings is actually low, comparatively.

                The more you earn, the less taxes you pay.

                Personally, I’d introduce the following

                Sale Tax on every property. CGT is unworkable and able to be manipulated. A sale tax on every property whether it be commercial, land or residential will raise far more income than any other tax.

                Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income. By contrast, CGT is only expected to bring in $4 billion at optimistic best.

                A sale tax on all property would bring in well over $5 billion a year, and is unable to be avoided as it is paid at the point of purchase.

                Death Duty
                You die with millions in assets, your estate gets taxed 10% irrespective of whether its in trust or not.
                Income tax
                Leave the existing progressive system, maybe bump up the thresholds so 17.5% applies to the first $60,000, 25% up to $150,000, then 35% over $150,000 to $499,999 then
                $500,000 subject to a tax rate of 70% on every dollar earned over $500,000 which increases to a rate of 90% on every dollar earned over $750,000.

                • Danske

                  Yes, James. If up to you, we would happily become a second France (where absurd high taxes are slowly killing the country).

                  • KJT

                    Ignoring the fact that Western countries were at their most successful and prosperous when tax rates were at their highest.

                    Much more successful countries than ours have Government share in the economy over 60%.

                    Plenty of room to move.

                  • PapaMike

                    In France due to the very high taxation the second largest electoral constituency now is London.

                • just saying

                  Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income.

                  I don’t think you have thought this through.

                  For example, I have to leave my home next year. My house is worth exactly what I paid for it 2 years ago (and continue to pay through my mortgage), and I’m on a fixed low income. How could this possibly be fair?

                  I would be made to pay $20,000 despite there being no profit or income from my home. And it is the same percentage as someone selling their home after twenty years, worth 10 times what they paid for it. So if someone bought my home twenty years ago for a tenth of what it is now worth, they would pay exactly the same tax as I would.

                  Then there is the 4% real estate agency fees on top of this. There would be no capital gain to offset any of this.

                  Simpler doesn’t necessarily mean better or fairer.

                  I’m with you on death duties being reinstated and more progressive taxation, though.

                  • James Thrace

                    Why would you be the one paying the tax as the seller? I liken it to the fact that the seller doesn’t pay GST, the purchaser does. Perhaps calling it a “sale tax” is a misnomer. Maybe a Property Tax would be more appropriate. I do not advocate for a seller paying such a tax, only a purchaser would.

                    I can already see the moaning minnies trying to make out that making buyers pay a sales tax would effectively shut them out of the market – not really. They wouldn’t be any more shut out than now.

                    Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.

                    Combine that with an inability for any type of residential landlord to treat renting a residential property out as a business and the associated tax deductions that go with that, will combine to deflate the property market slightly and have more availability of properties for first home buyers thus depressing the upward trajectory of property prices.

                    Then one step further, and allow for home owners to claim deductions on a few things such as interest payments, maintenance etc, like they do in the states.

                    Allowing home owners to claim for such things (there would have to be a $ cap on the total amount that could be claimed either during the life of the mortgage, or in a given year) means more secure and stable communities populated by home owners, rather than transient renters, which may be transient due to the landlord, or other factors.

                    • just saying

                      Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.

                      Why?

                  • Ron

                    Why on earth do you expect a capital gain. If you have added to the value of your property it will surely be reflected in the sale price. But disregarding improvements there is absolutely no reason for you to expect some sort of windfall just because you have owned the property for two years.
                    How about your car. If its two years since you purchased it do you expect a capital gain on its resale?
                    Of course not.
                    Our problem it seems to me is that all land should be owned by the state. You would then purchase the house and pay a rental to the state for use of the land.
                    On sale of the house you would get exactly what the house is worth after depreciation. As you house gets older it would eventually be worth very little and at some stage a new house would be built and sold but the land would still be owned by the state. The land never changes so one would not expect it to get very expensive. Its just dirt.
                    There are variations on this idea that would include not being able to pass it on to descendants.

                    Then there is the 4% real estate agency fees on top of this. There would be no capital gain to offset any of this.

                    • just saying

                      Who said anything about wanting a capital gain? I don’t.
                      I was commenting on the fact that the sales tax, as proposed, seemed unfair because it wasn’t related to the size of any profit made on a property.
                      I don’t want profit, but I have to leave. So, I don’t think it is fair that, in the absence of profit, I should be hit with a $20,000 bill just because I have to move house (at whichever end I end up having to pay it).

                      This would be a huge amount of money to find in my circumstances. If the money taken was part of a fairer, more extensive, and highly graduated change in taxation aimed at a fairer distribution of resources all round, and massively improved public services, I would feel differently.

                      Also, this isn’t part of a wider discussion about private property itself and especially the commodification of land. That’s a whole other conversation. I’m saying this idea would not lead to greater fairness in the actual circumstances in which we happen to find ourselves.

                      The short version is – this would just be another flat-tax like GST which would impact disproportionately on those with the least and increase the gap between the rich and poor.

              • greywarbler

                No to taxes. Taxes down, further down, further down. So you say. You and all the other believers in fairies.

          • Paul 2.3.2.1.2

            You are such a sad fool.

      • RedLogix 2.3.3

        higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.

        I can just see their thinking. A generation ago they got the women slaving for them in their factories, offices and shops – now they want to beat another decade of our lives out of us all.

      • bad12 2.3.4

        SSLands, your support of David Parker simply adds weight to my view that He is a closet ‘Rogernome’ only to willing to shove unpopular policies down the throats of the people whether they like it or not,

        Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets against your ability to collect a full entitlement of Superannuation,

        Can you please stop LYING, is not Germany a member of the OECD, that particular country has in fact kept it’s age of entitlement at 65 while bringing in another entitlement of age 63,(with qualifications),

        You were linked to this fact a couple of days ago and having to continually rebut your fucking lies becomes tiresome and is one of the reasons the majority of readers and conmenters here think you are nothing but a Tr–lling shit-head…

        • RedLogix 2.3.4.1

          And anyone who shuffles out the ‘there is no alternative’ zombie also demonstrates a complete failure of imagination.

        • srylands 2.3.4.2

          Germany is high performing economy with high savings rates.

          “Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets”

          No. Remember I am a lowly bean counter at a firm of tax lawyers. We don’t get paid much. Or has your mate veutoviper, who has been stalking me on LinkedIn been talking to you?

          Anyway there are so few rich people in New Zealand that means testing wouldn’t save much. It also creates another army of state servants and incentives problems.

          I really encourage David parker to keep this policy. He is a good guy. Hoefully he is planning some party events to promote His policy. he will be the Finance Minister in 7 months so he deserves some respect.

          • RedLogix 2.3.4.2.1

            lowly bean counter at a firm of tax lawyers

            Yeah – really no imagination.

          • bad12 2.3.4.2.2

            SSLands, you are of course talking from a position of the bovine defecating as usual, most of the population of Auckland will be asset millionaires by the time they retire, most of these asset millionaires will have healthy Kiwisaver retirement incomes,and, at least 200,000 of them will have rental income properties,

            That’s just the middle class,

            Above that middle class there is in the upper middle class a sizable demographic, those with the coin able to purchase stolen assets with sizable shareholding along with the profitable rental property portfolios and the healthy Kiwisaver accounts,

            The sad fact is that those with the most have provided the least in actual sweat in terms of physical labour, and, the toll on physical human structures such physical toil extracts on those that do actually physically sweat for their daily bread means that in terms of longevity it will be those in the bottom third of the economy who will have little chance of reaching an age of entitlement for super of 67 or 70,

            My opinion of your employment has been changed in recent days by a little news item which stated that those involved in 5 eyes, the spying upon of their own citizens, have been educated in the insertion of human operatives into political blogs in an effort to disrupt them,

            Considering your spew of ill considered comments you would seem a perfect candidate to be one such employee, my view of the current site of your wee office cubilcle is now that it is just as likely to be located in a little office building located on Wellingtons Pipitea street as it is to be found up on the Terrace…

            • srylands 2.3.4.2.2.1

              You are simply spouting a whole lot of envy and wanting to get your hands on other peoples money. It is really unbecoming. Any politician who spouted what you spout would be dead as dead.

              Look dream all you want – there is seriously no alternative to lifting the super age, and it will happen. The forces will be overwhelming. If John key steps down in 2016, the National Government in 2017-2020 will do it.

              I repeat – this is a vote winner for Labour. It will be immensely popular. i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age.

              And dude stop being paranoid. The GCSB are not going to bother with The Standard.

              • KJT

                Repeatedly parroting the same crap does not make it true.

                Even though it can make fools repeat it.

                • srylands

                  Saying that it is inevtiable that the eligibility age will go up to 67 is not crap. Ok the probability is not 100%. But close enough. How is that crap?

                  • Pasupial

                    Slands

                    It’s crap because the next Labour/Green government will research and budget the feasibility of a Universal Basic Income. Then in 2017 this will be instituted in place of the current rundown social security system.

                    So there is indeed an alternative, just not one you are capable of understanding. Though I do believe you when you say; ” i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age”, as NZ Super must be a bit of a non-issue over there.

                    What’s your opinion of the Iwi n Aus protest movement?

              • Ron

                The GCSB doesn’t need to bother with blogs like The Standard because as we now know they have trained people to go out and sow havoc across the internet. The only question now is how they arrange payment to all those loyal RWNJ’s
                Maybe its an area we could look at taxing as unearned income?

                And dude stop being paranoid. The GCSB are not going to bother with The Standard.

              • bad12

                SSLands, you are advocating the perfect reason for Labour to back away from raising the age of entitlement,

                A National Government without Slippery the current Prime Minister will do it, and not long after be booted out of office for having done so,

                Seems a good idea to me…

        • Seti 2.3.4.3

          Germany has a much higher percentage of 65+ aged households living in poverty than NZ. In fact according to this OECD report NZ has the lowest percentage of its aged population in poverty

          • KJT 2.3.4.3.1

            Yes. Universal super is a remarkably cheap way of masking sure no elderly live in poverty.

            Much cheaper than processing it through ticket clipping financial institutions.

            Someone complained about the cost of churn, through the Government. 1 to 2%. How much of GDP do private banks take, again?

    • mikesh 2.4

      Introduction of a UBI would make the retirement age irrelevant.

    • KJT 2.5

      I am against means testing for the same reasons I am against income testing.

      It is inefficient, potentially unfair, and administratively costly, for little gain.

      One alternative, I would advocate others as well. Inheritance taxes are effective, universal and capture intergenerational accumulation of unearned wealth.

      Progressive taxation of income and wealth avoids the need to means/income test super.

      It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory. Save, and we will cut your pension.

      Saving for retirement as an alternative to universal super is simply, yet another privatisation. We all know how well those work for ordinary people.

      • srylands 2.5.1

        “It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory.”

        I don’t agree. For most people, national super will only provide a fraction of what is needed to live on post-retirement. So you need private retirement income to supplement national super.

        • KJT 2.5.1.1

          Incomprehension as usual Srylands?

          It is not an incentive to save if your super is going to be reduced by an amount proportional to your savings. Means tested.

          Those who advocate “saving” for super should be mindful of what has happened to so many peoples super savings in the rest of the world. Lost in the GFC.

          Having a PAYG universal super, sufficient to live on, is cheaper overall than re-circulating through a financial system which is ever more likely to fail, and have to be bailed by taxpayers, anyway. Again!

          • srylands 2.5.1.1.1

            “Lost in the GFC”

            Stop making shit up.

            That is bullshit. Looking at the returns on my managed funds, they dived for three years after 2008 but have now more than recovered. The NZX based funds are doing great. What are you on about?

            Look the reality is that most rational 20 and 30 somethings today should assume they get noting from the Gummnit in retirement. Look after yourself. That means investing in growth funds. Fuck I hope you don’t give financial advice to your kids. (Hey just wait for your government super – it will be sweet as.) yeah.

            The government super is a nice little sweetner in retirement but it should be seen as part of a much bigger package.

            • Poission 2.5.1.1.1.1

              The NZX based funds are doing great.

              The funds are asymmetrically distorted due to the impact of the large injection of repatriated earthquake reinsurance and insurance reinvestment (that has been parked there whilst they dribble out settlements)

              The large cashflows to NZ that DO NOT appear in the RBNZ external transfers,or as singularitys in the treasury models ,have an interesting effect they have forced jump like statistics in GDP etc.

            • bad12 2.5.1.1.1.2

              SSLands, it must be time for a party, you have for once in your miserable commenting existence on the Standard made part of a comment which to all the readers once it is isolated will make perfect sense,

              Your comment RE the 20 and 30 somethings planning for NO superannuation when they get to retirement age is a gem,

              Admit it SSLands, the whole Neo-Liberal dogma surrounding Superannuation has been a vicious lie all along, the REAL PLAN, all along has been for Superannuation to be scrapped full stop,

              This obviously in terms of politics has to be accomplished by incremental degrees moving the age of entitelment further and further out in terms of age,

              After all the first and most effected by these incremental dis-entitlements will be the poor, the low waged, and the low paid manual workers wont they SSLands, but then you have scant concern for those with low incomes or a shorter life-span of the ability to provide their labour to the economy and/or provide sufficiently for their retirement, these people just do not exist in your bubble do they,

              Thanks for the info SSLands, it just proves that every move made around the age of entitlement and the introduction of individual retirement savings soon to be made compulsory has been to pander to the Neo-Liberal Ism…

              • KJT

                The real plan of Srylands mob is to remove all social payments.

                The only good thing about it is that those as thick and antisocial as Srylands, will be the first to suffer.

                They do not realise that in their ideal society, they would be the ones living in the cardboard box on the street.

            • KJT 2.5.1.1.1.3

              “That is bullshit. ”

              Tell that to all the Icelanders, Cypriots, yanks, poms and Irish whose retirement savings disappeared in the GFC.
              Not to mention all the Kiwis who lost their shirts in 1987.

              Haven’t you heard of the law of gravity. What goes up must come down. I knew a lot of people in the 80′s who thought it no longer applied, also!

    • MrSmith 2.6

      Raising the retirement age is and was suicide for the Labour party, don’t they get it a great majority of there voters/members work there guts out and are broken down wrecks by 65.

      Also this policy discriminates against a large section of our society/voters Maori and Pacific Islanders who statistically don’t live as long as others in this country, how about we lower the retirement age, that party would get my vote.

    • Murray Olsen 2.7

      They need to drop this stupid policy and take finance off Parker. Why can’t they see it? I get the feeling instead that they’ll see ACT agreeing as a sign that it’s fiscally sensible. Bloody hell, where did the cat drag half of them in from?

  3. Belladonna 3

    Quite agree bad12, it is a really dumb idea. I dont trust David Parker to do what is right for the Labour Party. I still remember the scowl on his face when David Cunliffe was elected. If he doesnt believe in the principles of David Cunliffe’s Labour Party then he needs to get out.

    • Pasupial 3.1

      Raising the super age is now officially an Act idea:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/act-party/news/article.cfm?o_id=359&objectid=11209825

      “Unlike the ancient Inuit (who may well have rescinded their noble policy decades ago) we have not built a legend around older people “going out in the snow” to take the burden off their kin folk.”

      Above words seem to be attributed to Whyte, but may be O’Sullivan’s own.

      Cunliffe should get McCarten to have a word with Parker now!

    • Danske 3.2

      I disagree. I consider Parker a voice of moderation among some hot-heads that surround Mr Cunliffe (add to that list the newly appointed Mr McCarten).

      Parker is here to say and he should stick to his guns on how to promote business.

  4. bad12 4

    Belladonna, even on a purely political level it’s a Dumb policy, it probably cost Labour 2% of the vote in 2011 and even if Labour had of squeaked past National/ACT,(it was only a win of 60,000 odd votes), in that election they could not have had a chance of implementing such a policy as they would have had to rely upon both the Green Party and NZFirst to form a Government,

    My view is Labour can win the 2014 election simply by backing away from the policy and promising a referendum on the issue at the 2017 election…

    • weka 4.1

      What have the GP said on the matter?

      • Pasupial 4.1.1

        Weka

        I’m not aware of any specific Green Party statements in regard to the Parker/ Prebble proposal of raising the super age. However section 4 of the Income Support Policy states:

        “The Green Party will:
        Maintain universal New Zealand Superannuation for all New Zealanders 65 years and older, adjusted annually in accordance with movement in the Consumer Price Index…”

        https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/income-support-policy

        But this may become less important if section 1 is implemented:

        “The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. “

    • Skinny 4.2

      I agree put it to the people no vote for over 65 year olds. Be a very close call. The reasoning behind the rise to 67 was two fold. We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly. And too many people need to keepworking because of our poor savings record.

      • KJT 4.2.1

        “We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly.”

        An oft repeated meme, with no supporting evidence.

        The alternative is to leave the elderly to starve. Is that what you want?

        We supported the elderly, in their childhood, when there were much less workers, (most of their Mums did not work), and suddenly we cannot, after how much of an increase in GDP?

        Even in 2125 we still can, if we start with a modest increase in the top tax rates now, to build sustainable capability. May get as “bad” as equal to Australian levels (45% top rate plus State taxes) . And stopped sending all that money out of the country in “so called” retirement savings, to be lost in the next GFC..

        • Skinny 4.2.1.1

          I’m on record opposing the rise. I was highly annoyed our LEC carried it. I wanted it scrapped altogether. The wiser choice would have been means tested.

          • weka 4.2.1.1.1

            “We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly. And too many people need to keepworking because of our poor savings record.”

            There are other solutions to both those things. Were they discussed within Labour? Or was the age rise simply presented as TINA?

            • bad12 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Weka, its interesting how the ”narrative” around the imperative to rasing the age of entitlement is a constantly changing menu of points which do not stand up to scrutiny,

              First Baby Boomers is the imperative,next so as to keep the Neo-Liberal agenda moving toward it’s program of incremental gains in having a society without the provision of a Government superannuation scheme the LIE of ”we are all living longer” is trotted forth,

              3rd in line for the throne of spurious reasons to destroy Government superannuation is ”we are a nation of poor savers”,

              Since when has this ‘nation of poor savers’ been true, since forever would seem to be the only real answer to that question, but, as that nation of poor savers we have managed to provide for superannuation for how long,

              The bullshit the Neo-libs will trot out in defence of scrapping superannuation would seem to be never ending…

              • KJT

                Poor savers is another one of those myths which has no basis in fact.

                In fact we are rather good savers, overall, and, as a proportion of disposable incomes.
                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10620031
                And from a right wing think tank.
                http://nzinitiative.org.nz/site/nzbr/files/1231%20Savings%20Working%20Group%20Serves%20Up%20Strange%20Report.pdf
                “A 2007 New Zealand Institute of Economic Research study concluded: “A review of the existing measures of household saving in New Zealand shows little evidence of a saving problem. Indeed the data that the
                proponents of saving policies have used poorly reflect the true household saving performance. Other data sources indicate that household saving is not only positive but has been rising strongly in recent years.”

                Disposable incomes for most of us are rather low, because of New Zealand’s extremely high cost of living in relation to incomes.

                Saving has reduced, as you would expect as real incomes, for most, have fallen.

              • srylands

                I think it is generally a good idea to get people working longer and reduce the burden of a pay as you go retirement income scheme. That enables spending on other priorities, such as roads. Critically it also enables tax cuts.

                So my argument is really simple – it is akin to welfare spending and less is better.

                • bad12

                  SSLands, what’s this???, an attempt to resile from your outing of the TRUE neo-Liberal agenda surrounding Government funded Superannuation in the comment you made at 1.42pm???,

                  Your little hint at tax cuts is just another piece of the picture isn’t it, lets grind the Government superannuation scheme into the dust, not because it is unaffordable per se,

                  Simply so you and your ilk can then call for more tax cuts….

                • KJT

                  “less is better.”

                  Well, yes. The less people that need their income topped up by welfare the better.

                  That means jobs, adequate wages and a functioning economy.

                  All things that do not happen unless there is both a large and functioning supportive State sector along with an efficient and competitive private sector. Which does not mean domination by a few large offshore owned duopolies, protected by, bought, legislation, favourable to them..

                  Impossible without taxes.

                  Though I notice Libertarians are happy to charge , me, taxes to provide regulation, police and army to protect, “their” wealth. (Once they have successfully stolen it from the rest of us).

                  Note how the numbers needing welfare go up, when the idealogical brain farts beloved by Srylands and co are enacted.

          • MrSmith 4.2.1.1.2

            Skinny it’s all about keeping the Hampsters on the wheels as long as they can, clearly somebody has to pay for Key and Co’s lavish lifestyle, so lets convince the suckers they have to work longer for less money then when they do retire feed them peanuts.

  5. Pasupial 5

    If we’re recycling old topics, this one from last night is a foetid peach [hat-tip to Andy (the other one) comment 25 on 26/02 Open Mike]:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210373

    It’s not just the disinclination to accept the long established societal condemnation of incestuous relationships (he’s the leader of Act, so won’t believe in the existence of such a thing as society). It’s also his comparison of the risks in pregnancy over the age of 35 with; “the increased risk of congenital disorders in children from incestuous relationships”:

    ” The probability of having some problem with the children is greater when the mother is over the age of 35 but I’ve never heard anyone suggest that anyone over the age of 35 shouldn’t be allowed to have sex.”

    This, mind you, is Whyte’s idea of a “virtuous” position. I’d hate to read the statements of his that he considers sleazy and manipulative. But no doubt there’ll be ample opportunity in coming months.

    • Huginn 5.1

      ‘you gotta be careful where you pokin’ – you don’t know what you’ll find’

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhd8AHbp2c4

    • weka 5.2

      Gordon Campbell -

      Well, Jamie Whyte is certainly making his mark as leader of the Act Party. If people were having difficulty telling the shaven-headed Whyte apart from that other shaven-headed guy who used to lead the Act Party, now they know – Whyte is the guy who thinks that incest should be legal. Oh, but only between consenting adults. This begs the question. Given the power dynamics within families – and the difficulties that already exist in establishing consent (and the lack of it) with respect to sexual offending outside the family, Whyte’s proposal would seem to put a new category of people, many of them women, at risk of sexual predation by their kin. Erosion of the consent defence would be a more likely outcome of the legalising of incest than the protection of those relatively rare cases where brothers and sisters fall afoul of the law when they freely and jointly seek to pursue a marital relationship.

      http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/02/27/gordon-campbell-on-the-snowden-revelations-and-acts-position-on-incest/

    • KJT 5.3

      Then there is persuading the elderly to go out in the snow so wee Jamie can pay 1% less tax.

      Sorry. A bit harsh on ACT. It is also Labour party policy.

      Next. Compulsory euthanasia at 65, unless you have 2 million dollars, can burger flip for 12 hours a day, or wear nappies to work in Walmart.

    • Te Reo Putake 5.4

      If this isn’t ACT party policy, how do we explain the Epsom cuppa?

  6. “..Face it – everyone’s addicted to something..”

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/face-it-everyones-addicted-to-something/

    (excerpt..)

    “..(ed:..yes..it has always amused/bemused me how cigarette-smoking/piss-swilling/animal-flesh/fat-addicts..

    ..seem to feel free to sneer at/hold in contempt..

    ..junkies..

    ..and to urge they continue to be chased by police/jailed..as the best treatment for that addiction..”

    (cont..)

    phillip ure..

    • bad12 6.1

      But Phillip, you consider those that cannot kick the ciggies to be ”piss weak” despite the evidence presented to you that the nicotine addiction is just as strong as the Heroin one,

      So, why wouldn’t people in turn consider you to be a ‘filthy sniveling fucking Junky’ only using marijuana as a crutch because your limited income does not allow you that which you wake up every morning craving for like nothing else on this Earth…

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        the ignorances run both deep and wide..

        ..in that one/’prominent’-green..

        ..eh..?

        ..phillip ure..

        • bad12 6.1.1.1

          Talking of ignorance Phillip, wasn’t that very ignorance the means by which you attempted to sidestep the links provided to you showing the relative addictive strengths Nicotine V heroin…

          • phillip ure 6.1.1.1.1

            your flailings to try to justify yr weakness/inability to kick..(what for me was the easiest addiction to end..)

            ..and yr (self-justifying) clinging to that ‘nicotine is more addictive than heroin’ pile of bullshit..

            ..is becoming ever more desperate/transparent..

            ..eh..?

            ..best quit while you are behind..

            ..eh..?

            ..(get that ‘quit’-pun..?..geddit..?..)

            (and..you don’t take defeat gracefully..do you..?..

            ..always been that way..?..)

            ..phillip ure..

            • bad12 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Yawn Phillis, ever the ego game player, declares ‘itself’ the winner yet again…

              • best you just go and have another ciggie..eh..?

                ..calm yr rattled nerves..and all that..

                ..try to regroup..

                ..eh..?..

                ..(maybe a quick shot of yr favourite poison..?..from that bottle you keep stashed away for ‘special-occaisons’..?

                ..it is nearly noon..after all..

                ..and that would ‘help’..eh..?

                ..and only about an hour ’till yr next pig-fat shot..eh..?)

                ..phillip ure..

                • bad12

                  Yawn, refer to my comment at 9.49am, your way to pathetic to even consider wasting the pixels on a further answer…

  7. Rosie 7

    phillip ure, I hope you received my answer to your question on Open Mike yesterday re DTB.

    Pasupial. Yes! It was Emerald Storm Troopers! Other points noted.

    • @ rosie..

      ..yes..i saw that..

      ..but aren’t we all (sorta) on the same side..?

      ..couldn’t/shouldn’t we put all of these (however much justified) internicine-feuds/grudges to one side..

      ..and focus on winning this election/throwing this bunch of tory-bastards out..?

      ..our media is so rightwing slanted..

      ..those few other voices should be supported..

      ..perceived warts and all..

      ..to my mind..

      ..phillip ure..

      • Rosie 7.1.1

        “but aren’t we all (sorta) on the same side..?

        ..couldn’t/shouldn’t we put all of these (however much justified) internicine-feuds/grudges to one side..

        ..and focus on winning this election/throwing this bunch of tory-bastards out..?”

        Yes! Yes we are phillip. And that is exactly what I said to Martyn last year. It was extremely unhelpful of him to be giving air to his grudges, crazy imagined ones at that. I suggested to him that we need to work collectively if we’re to win, instead of him alienating those who are by nature, his comrades. It went on like that for while……………he remained petulant and after I spoke of the importance of good will he said I could take my goodwill and shove it. (words to that effect)

        Charming.

        Like I said, I’m not welcome there and I get insulted so there’s only so much I can take in the name of “working together”. I’m also more interested in being away from the keyboard and working alongside like mindeds, IRL, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. It also feel a lot safer meeting with people and discussing ideas and strategy. No pesky electronic eyes and ears.

        • KJT 7.1.1.1

          Agree Rosie, but it does not mean marching in lockstep like the N..zi, correction, National party.

          The more ideas the better.

          But. No point in throwing them out, just to end up with the NACT light neo-libs in the Labour caucus.

  8. Enough is Enough 8

    Another rat has jumped from the sinking ship.

    Ryall is gone.

    How many more from the worst government in New Zealand’s history will jump before defeat this year.

    • bad12 8.1

      Nice, i have a nice little surprise coming Tony’s way via the Opposition in a couple of month’s, He can then take this as my parting gift to the Minister of ‘Finding Novel Ways of Denying People Healthcare’,…

    • scotty 8.2

      Yeah .
      Percy needs more time to organise his tie collection.

    • Tim 8.3

      The Elna was getting too much of a beating and there are only so many different coloured ginham tableclosths, stripe tie and polka dot combinations. Retirement means he can revert to the Bob Charles knit shirt (with action gusset of course) – or perhaps even a lovely beige safari suit.

  9. Belladonna 9

    Phil – made your porridge this morning, so, so yummy. Thanks.

    • @ belladonna..chrs..

      ..i have a brew on now..

      ..banana/blueberries/passion-fruit will be the underlay..today..

      ..(i’m salivating in anticipation..)

      ..phillip ure..

  10. Skinny 10

    Longtime National MP Tony Ryall is set to join a growing list (11) of National MP’s leaving parliament. There is word from insiders that they are worried about Bill English’s balancing of the books.

    I guess it’s like a ponzi scheme, the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered. It must be concerning to Joyce who is trying to hold things together that another high ranking MP calls it time.

    • srylands 10.1

      “the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered”

      No. In New Zealand that would be impossible. The Public Finance Act requires the Treasury to publish a PREFU to provide an indication of the most up-to-date economic and fiscal position that an incoming government will face.

      • Skinny 10.1.1

        Yes yes I am well aware of that Shrilland. As you would also know there are many ways to massage the numbers. The social welfare figures are a classic example of fudging things. Both National & Labour have partaken in that twisted little number.

        Now while your slivering about the place, you asked a question ( regarding engaging voters) of which I’ve answered. Now I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice, now I will be fair by adding the Taxpayer Union to the charity list, that’s dependent on them qualifying like some other Unions I have on the list.

        How say you? Ya know for the feel good factor of getting the non engaged to vote and take part in the democratic process and all.

        • srylands 10.1.1.1

          “ow I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice.”
          Done. When it is set up, contact me with the relevant bank account details.

          • Skinny 10.1.1.1.1

            “Done. When is it setup, contact me with the relevant bank account details”

            Oh jolly good. Well I have the troops on the ground rearing to go, however like anything there is a process, all be it slightly bloated. Choosing which charities, critiquing them ( you might need to advise on the Taxpayer Union) then there needs to be an offer of intent letter that Executive Committees need to accept. And of course included is a recommendation that any donations received are ‘somehow’ forwarded as political donations to the relevant party’s. In the case of Taxpayers Union I would assume that would be ACT.

            Thanks kindly Sir I will be in touch.

      • KJT 10.1.2

        Pity that the numbers are not required to be constantly available.

        Nationl’s being in the poo would be rather obvious at the moment.

        And. They have run out of paper-boys, to tax.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2.1

          Pity that the numbers are not required to be constantly available.

          That’s exactly what needs to happen and in real time as well. There may have been a reason for these things to be made available at preset times back in the days of manual working but in this age of computers and the internet there is no longer any excuse to keep the figures from the people.

      • PapaMike 10.1.3

        Regarding the PREFU it is allright as long as you leave out the unfunded $4 billion ACC account.
        And buy a bankrupt railway.

    • millsy 10.2

      Paving the way for Judith Collins to take the health portfolio and pick up where Upton and Shipley left off post 2014…..Job well done for Ryall, who was instructed by Key to ensure that health remains off the radar to ensure there was no repeat of the 1990-1993 fiascos that almost saw National lose the 93 election.

    • David H 10.3

      Should call in the SFO and let them sort out the mess.

    • wyndham 10.4

      Would that we see (urgently !) a corresponding list of Labour retirees. National appear to have now removed the bulk of their “dead” wood and can look forward to a rejuvenated caucus.
      Labour still have the ABC brigade; Mallard,Goff et al.

      • KJT 10.4.1

        LOL. National still have Brownlee, Smith, Tolley, Bennet, Parata etc.

        In fact their talent pool seems to consist of John Key.

        Not to mention their obvious lack of intelligent Women

    • ianmac 10.5

      Note that Bill English is going to be a List only MP (I think?) If so does that tell us that he can quietly slip away after they loose the Election this year. I think it is now 9 to leave National.

    • rhinocrates 10.6

      Sigh, if only it was ALL of them, Prostetnic Vogon Joyce included – and on the other side, Rogernomes like Goff, King, Mumblefuck (who considers politics beneath him anyway), Mallard, Beltway Grant, Curran (quick, give her a nice pot and make sure she gets watered regularly), Hipkins (red braces, some coke and a trip to 1987 for him)…

  11. greywarbler 11

    on 9toNoon with Kathryn Ryan – Laurie May poet punchy on social issues
    10:05 Feature: Laurie May – Alice Springs slam poet
    Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet from Alice Springs who challenges societal norms and perspectives on poverty through her spoken-word poetry. She is known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and identity-politics themes. Laurie is in New Zealand to perform in Hamilton and Wellington.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

    Laurie May at Poetry in Motion
    Heaven Pizza, Wellington
    Wed 5 Mar 7:00pm

    Links:
    Laurie May’s Facebook page
    Hamilton Slamdown Poetry – Facebook page
    Poetry in Motion Wellington – Facebook page
    Watch Laurie’s poem Facts about Aboriginal deaths in custody – YouTube

    From eventfinda -
    (Wed 26 February, so done see Wellington. )Hamilton Slamdown Poetry’s inaugural feature poet event stars visiting Australian slam poet Laurie May. The show also includes local poets and an open mic for anyone wanting to ‘give it a go’. Koha collected will go towards funding entrants in the NZ National Poetry Slam 2014.

    From Alice Springs, Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet challenging societal norms and perspectives on poverty. Known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and pointed politics of identity themes, Laurie May recently performed for five days at the Woodford Folk Festival, a long-running major creative New Year event in Queensland.
    In her first year as a performance poet, she represented Central Australia in the finals of the Australian Poetry Slam in Sydney in 2012, finishing in the top five. After that, she established a monthly event called The Dirty Word in Alice Springs, while acting as poet-in-residence at Page 27 Cafe, where she set up The Poet-Tree for people to hang their poems. She recently hosted and promoted US poet Bob Holman’s visit to Alice Springs, an event called Haiku Death Match and an upcoming show by UK raw poet Paul Case aka Captain of The Rant.

    Laurie May and Hamilton Slamdown Poetry are also visiting Fraser High School the following day.
    Poetry Slam events are fast becoming popular in New Zealand and Australia. Spoken word poets “slam” two-minute poems in competition judged by audience members and popular acclaim. It’s loud. It’s bold. It’s clever. Young (mostly), sharp, diverse and smart.

  12. captain hook 12

    I see Tony Ryall is another rat deseerting the sinking ship.
    I only remember him demeaning the dignity of parliament by trying to hand out minties in a cheap stunt.
    Cheap tony ryall.

  13. Molly 13

    Fact follows fiction with Peter Williams.

  14. amirite 14

    Story just breaking that, surprise, surprise, Tony Whittall may have bought his way out of a murder conviction, which follows to a conclusion that we badly need a corruption-free justice system.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/west-coast/9768728/Claim-of-deal-on-Whittall-charges

    • bad12 14.1

      Yes i heard that little piece of news with open disgust in my mind, if this is true the relevant Ministers should be quizzed on this in the House,

      The two tier system of Justice which operates in this country is pretty much obvious, the brown kids seen not to have a future are simply thrown into the jail system as fodder for the machine while those who offend from the ‘better’ suburbs are seen to be constantly described as having their futures blighted by even at times the entering of a conviction against their names,

      i am not advocating that such kids with the brighter future are tossed to the wolves in the form of the prison system, no-one should be sitting in a jail cell unless they have physically harmed someone or another living creature…

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1

        The two tier system of Justice which operates in this country…

        I think it’s probably a three tier system. There’s the rich that just don’t get charged, the middle class who will get charged but get light sentences and then there’s everyone else (mostly brown) who get thrown to the wolves.

    • Bill 14.2

      Hand him over to the families of the West Coast miners in the dead of night and let them decide what justice should be meted out. Guaranteed ‘corruption free justice system’ right there.

      And by the way, I reckon that many would be astounded at the level of humanity extended him in such a scenario. We can police ourselves and we can deliver justice to ourselves. Just a shame that we don’t.

      • rhinocrates 14.2.1

        Chris Trotter once wrote (regarding a particular, hugely dodgy land deal with Holyoake) that New Zealand isn’t really a country without corruption, we’re just good at calling corruption something else.

        • Murray Olsen 14.2.1.1

          That agrees with my experiences. The other difference from countries that are recognised as corrupt is that the entry price in Aotearoa is much higher. In some places, it’s reasonably democratic and $10 will get you off a speeding ticket. Here, you probably need somewhere around a million to get in on the act and get a law changed, or a favourable decision.

  15. Arfamo 15

    This is interesting. Child poverty, and the income inequality gap have both just now been confirmed as having been under-reported by Treasury.

    “Finance Minister Bill English has relied heavily on the MSD reports to point to a lack of evidence that inequality is increasing in New Zealand. He was not immediately available for comment.

    Treasury blamed the mistakes on human error and breakdowns in process in its relationship with Statistics New Zealand.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9771016/Children-in-poverty-vastly-underestimated

    • Bill 15.1

      So, what I want to know is – Do they or don’t they believe in magic? Sometimes it seems that they do, but now it seems they are keen to be denying its efficacy…

      Treasury admitted substantial errors were made in its calculations of disposable income levels in Kiwi families for recent years, but says the results had no effect on the “real world”.

      • fender 15.1.1

        This no effect in the “real world” suggests that no matter how bad poverty gets there will be no change of policies to alleviate the problem. Good to know.

    • Hayden 15.2

      Ooh:

      This year, as Labour and the Greens sought to attack the Government amid claims that there was a growing gap between the rich and poor in New Zealand, English used Perry’s reports to point to the fact that there was no evidence that this was true.

      Today’s announcement did not change the overall trend of inequality according to the MSD reports, but suggested statements were made about them knowing the reports were based on incorrect data.

    • bad12 15.3

      We would have to ask what exactly is the use of Treasury, everything they report to any Government seems to turn out to be wrong, are the staff of Treasury simply a cadre pushing the barrow of the discredited Neo-Liberal ism using their position to downplay the negative social statistics while trumpeting the rock-star economy while all around the evidence says that Rock-Bottom as far as economic expectations is where the Governments books happen to be,

      Perhaps it is Treasury that need the ‘restructuring’ sending the gnomes en masse into the real world so as to aquaint them all of ‘real world’ effects of policies that simply deepen and further entrench poverty in the demographic with the least in society…

      • Hayden 15.3.1

        We would have to ask what exactly is the use of Treasury

        Where else would we get luminaries (ask srylands, he’ll tell you) such as Bill English and Aaron Gilmore?

      • Draco T Bastard 15.3.2

        As far as I can make out Treasury needs to be disbanded – restructuring just won’t cut it. It’s too often wrong and filled with neo-liberal economists that seem to drive that wrongness.

        • felix 15.3.2.1

          It should be sold to the private sector in order that it operate at the level of efficiency that only corporate discipline and competition can induce ;)

          • KJT 15.3.2.1.1

            I wonder how many customers they would get for a bunch of parrots repeating Cut wages, cut taxes, cut costs, cut Government, give all our assets away to wealthy foreigners, and borrow for welfare, for Rio Tinto..

            • felix 15.3.2.1.1.1

              They would get precisely their appropriate market share according to the utility their service offers.

    • Lanthanide 15.4

      I think Labour’s response to “demand an apology” is effectively that English and the government to respond, which they certainly will and they’ll dismiss whatever Labour are saying.

      A better response would be to simply point out how bad English and the government are and leave it there. Put the government on the back foot, rather than inviting a reply.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.4.1

        Actually, the better option would have been to point out that the government was purposefully lying. Blinglish used those same figures after he knew they were wrong.

        • Arfamo 15.4.1.1

          Good points, Lanth and DTB. Reading Parker’s press release again, it is too “gentlemanly”. It should just kick the bastards in the gooneys for bullshitting, not call for an apology for the error.

  16. captain hook 16

    When National took office they said they would do something about un mufled cars on the roads. It seems as if a whole new generation of little shits who need to make noise to make sure somebody knows who they are has arisen. They seem to know that National wont do anything in case they get on their tweeters and blag the government in election year.
    Perhaps the new Police Commissioner will get on to it but I wouldnt hold my breath. It seems as if public order and comfort come a long way down the list of priorities

  17. Skinny 17

    Let’s see Minister of Inovation and Employment Stephen ‘snakeoil’ Joyce try sliver out of allegations former Pike River CEO Peter Whittle paid his way out of charges over the mining disaster which 29 men tragically died.

    So it appears Joyce may have shown moral turpitude in doing a ‘behind closed doors’ deal with Whittle and his legal team.

    So instead of doing right by the families of the dead miners, by rushing through the House under urgency a Corporate Manslaughter amendment Bill. It appears highly likely these mongrels done some shady backroom deal.

    If proven correct National should be looking for a new campaign manager and Minister of I & E because Joyce needs to resign or be sacked.

  18. captain hook 18

    Joyce is keepinghis head down.
    He invited dotcom here and doesn’t want anyone to find out.

  19. captain hook 19

    and I’m getting really pissed off with the heapatitis foundation.
    I have had two arguments with them in the last week over demands for personal information that they dont need.
    Their current campaign has nothing to do with the health of any one individual but gathering information for longitudinal studies so they can get more funding.
    another score for the banal poltroons running this country.

  20. bad12 20

    Also read on stuff today, perhaps those who extoll the virtues of Health Minister Tony Ryall who claims to have raised the number of ‘elective surgeries’ undertake under His term as Minister to ‘rock-star’ proportions can explain just how many more surgeries would have been completed had Ryall managed the Governments stocks of Tamiflu with efficacy,

    The loss from the dumping of this ‘lemon’ of a flu remedy,(only 55,000 out of a million+ doses bought by the Government were ever used), are said to be in a range of 20-110 million dollars depending if the Government take up Big Pharma Roche’s(the manufacturer), offer to replace every dose dumped at half the cost of the original purchase price,(which simply proves the Government was at the least negligent and stupid for paying the original price),

    Developed for what turned out to be a falsely flagged ‘flu epidemic’ in the form of the H1N1 flu rumors of it’s efficacy have abounded since it’s public release with Roche the manufacturer refusing to release details of trials carried out with the drug pre-release,

    There is a school of thought,(tin foil hats everyone),that the ‘epidemic scare’ was a deliberate attempt to have the public of western world societies get stuck into swallowing this unproved drug en masse,

    Side issues surrounding this rumor have gone as far as alleging that after a previous failure of the US CDC to identify the correct flu that each winter comes out of Asia infecting millions upon millions in the western world, Roche in particular, having relied upon the CDC to identify the correct flu had manufactured multi-million doses of the flu jab for that particular flu which turned out not to be the predominate flu that season took a huge hit financially, having to dump most the doses of the ready to use flu vaccine jabs for that year,

    You will need another layer of tinfoil for the hat to continue reading further,

    In what we will call for now a conspiracy theory, it has been rumored quietly in some quarters that a deal was then struck between the CDC and Roche where the ‘guess’ the CDC makes annually on what will be the prominent flu in the western world for the year would be taken out of the equation,

    Instead a laboratory formulated flu, H1N1, would be spread first in Asia and then in western countries with Roche already well into the process of manufacturing 100′s of millions of doses of Tamiflu the CDC would be 100% right in it’s yearly prediction on the prevalent flu and Roche along with a well organized media blitz screaming ”Killer Flu Epidemic’ would make a ‘killing’ on supplying the world with Tamiflu,

    The above of course is not FACT, it has simply been compiled from rumor and innuendo so until such time as there is an admission by Roche, the US CDC, or, a Government it can only be reported as a fiction,

    Of interest in the world of Flu is the current one being manufactured in a number of laboratories, H7N5, said to be a far far more efficient killer by times 20 than the flop H1N1 turned out to be is said to only need a suitable host virus that will accept it as a passenger so as to enable it’s spread from human to human to occur and make it possibly the nastiest piece of chemistry outside of actual chemical weapons to exist on the planet in the year 2014…

    • greywarbler 20.1

      It’s a case of the officials trying to be sure that there were sufficient supplies of the flu vaccine and probably being gamed by the manufacturers. When they were told that there would not be supplies for a long period after ordering them the officials must have over-ordered, unwise because they had limited shelf life, but because of the scare of the dangers of the deadly flu. Possibly helped by the media.

      • bad12 20.1.1

        Greywarbler, what deadly flu are you talking about,H1N1???, the kill rate for H1N1 was the lowest in years…

        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203886/Fears-rise-effects-Tamiflu-cases-adverse-reactions-double-week.html

          In the first three days of its operation – between 24 and 26 July – no fewer than 150,000 Tamiflu packs were handed out.

          A growing number of doctors have raised concerns over whether the drug is being handed out too readily, putting many at needless risk of side effects when in the majority of instances, swine flu is a mild illness.

          The 293 cases, reported by doctors to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, are only of suspected adverse reactions. However, those that turn out not to have been caused by Tamiflu are likely to be only a fraction of the total.

          There were 465 separate reactions reported, referring to 293 individuals.

          Around a third involved gastrointestinal problems, such as vomiting and diarrhoea.

          But there were also cases of heart and eye problems – together with 46 cases of psychiatric disorders and 48 disorders of the nervous system. There has also been one unexplained death.

          Last week England’s top doctor urged parents to continue giving their children Tamiflu if they come down with swine flu.

          Sir Liam Donaldson, the chief medical officer, appealed for calm after the release of a study which showed that 53 per cent of children who take it suffer from nausea, nightmares and other reactions.

          Sir Liam said: ‘All drugs do have side effects. It is always a case of deciding the balance between benefiting a patient from a treatment and the side effects.’

          I’d be quite keen to know how many doses of Tamiflu Sir Liam ended up swallowing himself.

      • greywarbler 20.1.2

        bad 12
        I don’t know which number flu. I know that there was concern about possible bad effects and the Tamiflu had to be ordered in advance. So the official/s overordered.

        Who decides on this type of purchase? Is there a board of doctors, immune specialists, public health, disease specialists? There is the USAs CDC – Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I guess whatever they said would stand for a lot.

        • bad12 20.1.2.1

          Greywarbler, we are talking H1N1 as far as Tamiflu goes, i can assure you the the numbers of those who died in what was touted as a ‘Pandemic killer flu year’ were lower than the norm of previous winter flu seasons in this country,

          You seem to have a faulty memory, there was a concerted media campaign at the time ratcheting up fear based around a deadly pandemic of flu,(H1N1), commenting on another web-site at the time,) and having been given a whisper),i was a lone voice loudly proclaiming this supposed pandemic killer flu as Bullshit,

          i havn’t got the year the US CDC got the yearly western world prevalent flu totally wrong in front of me,(it is the CDC who advise big Pharma what flu they will need to make the multi-millions of yearly flu jabs for), but, wrong they got it which resulted in big Pharma producing a useless flu jab that year with the loss of a corresponding amount of the filthy lucre,

          The whispers surrounding the sudden change from the ‘flu jab’ to Tamiflu started early on in the piece and were soon followed by the cries of PANIC, this years flu, (H1N1),was a pandemic killer virus and those i was ribbing over conspiracy theory and tinfoil hats then returned the ribbing with a ”now do you see it”

          And, see ‘it’ i did, this of course is all fictional, the events described may or may not have happened and we are simply discussing something theoretical…

          • greywarbler 20.1.2.1.1

            bad12
            You seem to have a faulty registration of what you see. I don’t remember everything about the flu epidemic as it didn’t make as big an impact on me as apparently it did for you.
            I merely asked what agency was the important one and referred to CDC. Not because I thought that you were going to be proved wrong about anything. So don’t make an argument when I was after a discussion.

            I wish you wouldn’t read into answers things that aren’t there. You have done it before and made critical statements that didn’t relate to the comment.

            • bad12 20.1.2.1.1.1

              Greywarbler, Lolz, i only see information contained in my previous comment, admittedly not the information you are seeking,(and it’s obvious that as it isn’t included in that comment i do not have the information you seek),

              Please point out where in the previous comment i have attempted to provoke an argument over a discussion,(specific sentence or paragraph will do fine),

              i do tho absolutely love a verbal joust having found there are far more laughs to be had in the verbals,(in this case printed versions of such), and far less chance of loosing teeth, blood and other things from previous engagements in minor physical jousts,(the number of losses in my virtually edentate gob suggesting a lack of prowess in the latter),

              Seeing as you are such a sensitive being Greywarbler i will have to try in future to be ”NICE”, i fear tho my ability to reach such a high achievement is as lacking as my ability to ensure the protection of my dentures in previous struggles of a physical nature…

              • greywarbler

                Oh bad12 it’s boring being polite, as someone said yesterday, so don’t worry ignore the above.

    • Colonial Viper 20.2

      Thanks for bringing this up bad12. Big Pharma only need a scare like this every 5 years to put the cream on top of their already huge profits.

  21. Chooky 21

    seems like we are made up of viruses

    “There are 100,000 known fragments of viruses in the human genome, making up over 8% of our DNA. Most of this virus DNA has been hit by so many mutations that it’s nothing but baggage our species carries along from one generation to the next.”

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2012/02/14/mammals-made-by-viruses/#.Uw5XgOOSxF8

    …and risks for vaccine production

    http://www.ecs.umass.edu/~mettu/ece597m/papers/Leung/sdarticle-2.pdf

    (PS….. calling in all crazies with big injections….run for the hills….)

    • McFlock 21.1

      No, we’re not “made up of viruses”.
      Some evolutionary developments were the result of viral infections.

      You know the thing about evolution? The ones who don’t reproduce are the ones who didn’t survive.

      • Chooky 21.1.1

        @ McFlock…OK made BY viruses ( splitting hairs imo)…Viruses are a natural part of being human and part of human evolution

        ‘Mammals Made by Viruses’

        http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2012/02/14/mammals-made-by-viruses/#.Uw5XgOOSxF8

        ‘Hunting Fossil Viruses in Human DNA’

        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12paleo.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

        Risks linked to endogenous retroviruses for vaccine production:
        A general overview

        http://www.ecs.umass.edu/~mettu/ece597m/papers/Leung/sdarticle-2.pdf

        • McFlock 21.1.1.1

          Indeed. Shitting yourself to death or bleeding from your eyes, or being delirious from a fever are “a natural part of being human “. So is being eaten by a lion or catching intestinal worms.

          With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.

          • Chooky 21.1.1.1.1

            sounds like you are talking about Ebola

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease

            …not the poor wee measles virus

            “With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more”….some are a wee bit more skeptical …eg Tamiflu.

            The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything

            ( I am off to dinner)

            • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1.1

              I thought we’d left measles behind when you started talking about fragments of virul DNA in the human genome. Or was that just measles?

              Because we vaccinate against the ones that kill people. You know, that bit about evolution that involves the deaths of the least-suited.

              • Colonial Viper

                Because we vaccinate against the ones that kill people. You know, that bit about evolution that involves the deaths of the least-suited.

                Meh, everything can kill, even the many kinds of bacteria that you have on your skin right now, so you better get real busy vaccinating yourself.

            • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1.2

              btw, ebola isn’t the only haemorrhagic fever, just the one they plugged in hollywood for a while in the 1990s.

            • northshoredoc 21.1.1.1.1.3

              “The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything”

              There are many thousands of different types of viruses we recommend vaccinating against the following viral borne diseases

              Measles
              Mumps
              Rubella
              Hepatitis
              Polio

              The reason we advise vaccinating against these specific viruses is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.

              • Chooky

                Sorry dont believe you that measles , mumps and rubella are “proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality”

                ….that is bullshit

                …most of my generation and ancestors had them without vaccination and without any long term ill- effects.

                However a friend’s sister died after getting the polio vaccine when she was a child…and that tragedy caused life long trauma to my friend and his family

                • northshoredoc

                  “Sorry dont believe you that measles , mumps and rubella are “proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality”

                  I think you could only make such a comment for one of the following reasons.

                  you didn’t understand what I said
                  you are a dunce
                  you are deliberately trying to be oppositional

                  .. or perhaps a combination of all three.

                  • RedLogix

                    And exactly how do you imagine that charming comment helped?

                    Feel better now?

                    My sense is that the major health gains came from industrial scale water and waste treatment and huge improvements in food safety. Not to mention great strides in understanding nutrition.

                    At the same time none of these things came without a cost. The overwhelming rise in chronic degenerative illnesses (cancer is now the leading cause of pre-mature death in the developed world) and obesity is closely associated with these same benefits. Clearly at some level there has been a trade-off.

                    We might not die from accidents and infectious disease as our great-grandparents did, but neither can we herald a victory over ‘morbidity and mortality’.

                    Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.

                    Besides a cursory glance over the history of medical science would advise a great deal more humility.

                    • northshoredoc

                      “Feel better now?”

                      Yes and you ?

                      “Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.”

                      I have never stated my or indeed medical knowledge in general is omnipotent I merely stated the facts which are the reason we (medical professionals, the MoH, plunker etc) advise vaccinating against specific viruses and bacteria is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.

                      For anyone to suggest that these diseases don’t cause significant morbidity and mortality is plainly incorrect and ignores very very robust historical data.

                  • srylands

                    “I think you could only make such a comment for one of the following reasons.

                    you didn’t understand what I said
                    you are a dunce
                    you are deliberately trying to be oppositional”

                    I admire your persistence, but vaccine deniers are just like climate change deiners. They have the phone off the hook. Pre colonisation these guys would have been witch doctors. They experience cognitive disonance when confronted with science. Of course many of them have children, who pay the price.

                    BTW industrial scale water treatment was v useful in ending diseases such as cholera that were water borne. In did nothing for diseases such as polio or measles.

                  • Chooky

                    @ northshoredoc….lol…i am a dunce obviously….but i can still express my opinion ..i do have human rights still in this country

                    ( also one of my doctors was an even bigger dunce…because this doctor was totally opposed to vaccination and almost left medical school because of the medical mishaps /errors seen in hospitals…an extremely successful doctor too i might add)

                    ….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue

                    …there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living

                    • srylands

                      “there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living”

                      I think this better:

                      “there is no doubt that vaccination is good as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of their standard of living”

                    • northshoredoc

                      “….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue”

                      Yes a brilliant deduction, we only treat people for the cash no one is actually ill and there is no benefit from any medic treatment……. as you appear to be a bit slow that was sarcasm.

                    • McFlock

                      we only treat people for the cash no one is actually ill and there is no benefit from any medic treatment

                      Sounds like aura-realignment therapy to me :)

                • KJT

                  Birth defects in their children, infertility, death, shingles in later life, permanent disability, deafness.

                  I saw several of those personally, if you like “observational evidence”, in those a bit older than me in the generation before MMR and other vaccines.

                  Just some of the “side effects” of “childhood diseases which we vaccinate against.

                  That is why we have the vaccination schedule we have.

                  Sorry, But subjecting a child to several weeks of serious illness and the very definite possibility of serious side effects, because you refuse to vaccinate, is, child abuse. (people who say they do not smack their children have “chicken pox parties FFS)
                  Not to mention exposing, children around your child, that cannot be vaccinated because they are too young, have compromised immune systems etc, is abusing them as well.

                  Refusing to vaccinate because of of side effects is akin to refusing to feed your child because someone, somewhere, died of peanut allergy.

                  I am as sceptical about big pharma and research paid for commercially, as anyone. But vaccination has been working for two centuries now. I think we would know if their was more side effects than medical science describes.

                  Unlike. Alternative medicine, some of which is sold by “big Pharma”, (cold cures and the like) which sticks to, mostly, self limiting conditions and does not publish the, often, serious side effects.

                  Lastly. I prefer the scientific method which relies on observable and repeatable evidence, rather than hearsay.
                  When scientists have got it wrong, it is because they to, have ignored the method, or screwed up. Not because the “scientific method” is wrong.

                  I prefer to rely on Archimedes and Newton to tell me my ship floats, not magic!

          • weka 21.1.1.1.2

            “With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.”

            Yet, as marty pointed out the other day, all that tech created different sets of problems too. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t done a cost/benefit analysis, but of course this progress has less to do with what we all want and more to do with who has the power and the money.

            • McFlock 21.1.1.1.2.1

              Yeah. I wasn’t particularly impressed by that comment.
              It’s the sort of question only one with easy access to clean drinking water could ask.

              • weka

                Didn’t quite follow that. Are you saying that no-one in a priviliged country like NZ should critique technology in a big picture sense? Never mind marty, how about in this conversation?

                • McFlock

                  Nah. Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.

                  In other words, the answer is in the impulse and ability to ask the question

                  • Well I wasn’t meaning to offend, but i was being pointed and rhetorical. Too often the proponents of science act like they forget that people are scientists and they come with all their foibles and because of that, the ‘purity’ of science is illusory therefore just because a scientist says it, does not mean it is necessarily so. I suppose for some, wielding a scientist as a sword in a discussion is a show-stopper – but not for me. I enjoy science – not just for the material benefits it affords me and society but also for the beauty and inherent enjoyment of learning some new things and knowledge itself but i’m not putting scientists on a pedestal – I’ll retain my ability and right to think for myself.

                    • McFlock

                      no offence taken.

                      I think that the ability to think for oneself is fine – I like to try it myself. But I’m not an immunologist, and I don’t pretend that googling the nutty ends of the interwebs substitutes for an advanced degree in the field.

                      I heard once that the last person who was reputed to know the sum of all human knowledge was Erasmus. I trust conventional mechanics to fix my scooter, and I trust conventional scientists to develop vaccines. And I trust my bullshit filter to separate those folk from fraudsters, crystal shills and ken fucking ring. And my bullshit filter starts screaming when people link to articles when they’ve only read the abstract, or decide that because they personally don’t know of someone who died of measles then therefore almost nobody has died of measles. And big neon signs go off when “natural” is used as shorthand for “good” and “healthy” (asbestos is natural, ffs). And then I look at the NZ cholera or bubonic plague rates, and I make an independent choice as to who’s probably correct.

                  • Ergo Robertina

                    ‘Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.’
                    McFlock – That kind of circular thinking is about trying to control the parameters of discussion.
                    ‘Post Rennaisance [sic] advances’ are often in spite of, rather than because of, the prevailing scientific thought of the day. The vilification and alienation experienced by Ignaz Simmelweis in trying to persuade doctors to wash their hands to reduce incidence of childbed fever is a classic example, but there are many others. According to modern (purportedly positivist) science of the 1840s, something unseen by the human eye could not cause death.
                    Now, there is a university named after him, but in his time, he ended up in an asylum.

                    • McFlock

                      Thanks for saying I was trying to control the parameters of discussion. I just thought it was stating the obvious – being in a position to ask whether the eradication of smallpox was worth it relies to a certain extent on having an infant mortality rate in the region of 1/1000 rather than 300/1000.

                      BTW, the Church took 400 years to say Galileo was correct.
                      And Galen was viewed as correct for 1200-odd years until science came onto the scene.

                      So even if it isn’t instantaneous, it still beats the competitors. And Simmelweis was eventually recognised because he had the hard data rather than relying on wishful thinking.

                  • Chooky

                    @ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely

                    …my children have been vaccinated reluctantly and through expediency because i wanted them to go to creche….but this does not mean i dont have enormous respect for my doctor who advised against blanket vaccinations for very young babies ….nor other parents who choose not to vaccinate…and also the scientists and microbiologists who study viruses( some of these people are also anti- blanket vaccination for their children…in fact it was hearing one of these experts on the radio that made me first aware that there was controversy…this was before children)

                    …also i have a fascination with the nature of viruses….they are endlessly fascinating…they are part of the building blocks of life ….are they conscious in some primitive way?… how do they interact with humans?…what causes a harmless virus in the human body to suddenly turn virulent and attack the symbiotic host individual….are viruses necessary and helpful to the individuals natural immune system?…. do some viruses protect against worse viruses and cancer?…. are viruses an essential part of evolution?(physical and conscious)…….what causes a pandemic like the Spanish flu straight after WW1?…do viruses turn virulent when a population is under severe stress?….almost like a death wish in the host activated?( in which case there may be other ways of treating this stress rather than blanket vaccination of both the stressed population and other unstressed populations)

                    …quite frankly i dont see this fascination in the rigid pro vaccinate everybody regardless brigade…which makes me think they are authoritarian personalities…more concerned with being right… and not concerned with the science at all

                    • northshoredoc

                      “@ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely”

                      More lies, all vaccines are registered registered via Medsafe based on substantive data in relation to their immunogenicity and side effect profile.

                      The rest of you diatribe is so odd I don’t know where to begin…. so I won’t.

                    • KJT

                      Chooky.

                      “I know someone who knew someone whose child died after being vaccinated”, or “we think” vaccination is bad, or “we think” vaccination is being pushed by those who make money from it, or “we think” vaccination causes ADHD, is NOT, evidence!

                      Evidence is, like, thousands of children dead or disabled by polio in NZ, pre vaccinations. None afterwards.

                    • McFlock

                      KJT is right – what “evidence” do you believe has been ignored?

                      If the evidence in favour of vaccination was outweighed by the evidence against, we wouldn’t be having an argument. As it is, though, the reverse is demonstrably the case.

            • Chooky 21.1.1.1.2.2

              weka +100…technology should be critiqued….eg plunder and pollute the earth and water supplies with technology and then try and patch it all up with man made technology….this is the capitalist ‘solution’ and arrogance

              …not to say technology has not helped enormously in surgery for example…. but to claim it is the solution to 99% of the worlds problems …when it has made a fair few of them…is ‘male’( i say this because it is generally males, but not always) capitalist ethos grandiosity and lunacy

            • KJT 21.1.1.1.2.3

              Life expectancy.

              In Victorian times many did not live long enough to die of cancer, or obesity.

  22. greywarbler 22

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint
    Rule change reinforces public’s lack of say ( 2′ 46″ )
    17:27 The government has announced that the public will not be able have a say on
    any applications to explore for oil and gas in New Zealand’s exclusive economic zone.

    Listening to Amy Adams talk airily about oil drilling being now non debatable by the public, the EPA being the only body to consider it, reminds me of listening to some of those Christian sects who quote semi-scientific factoids. Also if oil is found then people can then have a voice. And one unlikely to be heard. If there was a whiff of oil on their breath when they do the drilling nothing will stop them – they’ll charge like wounded bulls.

    She says that regulators all around the country are making decisions about matters that do not have to be notified and consulted on, like aircraft being airworthy. If these regulators round the country do make decisions about aircraft and something goes wrong then like the Bannerman crash one in Christchurch it killed a number of our precious scientists. (Pilot broke rules in air crash, says coroner – National – NZ Herald News
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid…‎
    May 31, 2006 – The Christchurch coroner has found that the deaths of eight people in … Mr McElrea outlined a series of failings by pilot Michael Bannerman …)

    It was a sad loss but was contained in one place though it could start a fire off that would rage far and wide if we had Australian tinder conditions. But with deep sea oil drilling if anything happened, it would have long-standing serious consequences, Stats of 0.2 or .02% chance of problems – interesting how that would be worked out.

    There was something on the news recently about the effect of diluted or mixed oil with water and it has bad effects which is not what oil companies want you to believe.

  23. felix 23

    Line charges on the power bill going up again, from ~$1.20 per day to ~$2 per day.

    That’s a significant leap. A couple more of those and there’ll be no benefit to feeding solar back into the grid.

    Thanks artificially created electricity market. Thanks corporate governance model. Thanks privatisation.

    • Skinny 23.1

      It is extortion that’s what it is. It’s little wonder it feel so much like ground hog day. Bring on the power shop. In the interim we get wounded the crap out of.

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  • Koretake II
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    Tumeke | 29-08
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    Pundit | 28-08
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    Labour | 28-08
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    Labour | 28-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Labour | 26-08
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    Mana | 25-08
  • Labour’s culture of science and innovation
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    Labour | 25-08
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    Labour | 25-08
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    Labour | 25-08
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    Labour | 25-08
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    Labour | 24-08
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    Labour | 24-08
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    Labour | 24-08
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    Labour | 24-08
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    Labour | 23-08
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    Labour | 23-08
  • Labour irons out low income tax issue
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    Labour | 22-08
  • Cornered Government comes out swinging
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    Labour | 22-08
  • Pacific people continue to go backwards under National
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    Labour | 22-08
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    Labour | 22-08
  • Labour’s focus on inequality, kids and better job prospects
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    Labour | 21-08
  • Political staff should give answers under oath
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    Labour | 21-08
  • High dollar, hands-off Govt sends workers to dole queue
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    Labour | 21-08
  • National’s flagship education policy dead in the water
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    Labour | 21-08
  • Dunedin will be a knowledge and innovation centre under Labour
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    Labour | 21-08
  • Inquiry into SIS disclosures the right decision
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    Labour | 20-08
  • Labour – supporting and valuing carers and the cared for
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    Labour | 20-08
  • By Hoki! It’s Labour’s fisheries policy
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    Labour | 20-08
  • Mighty River – Mighty Profits – Mighty hard to swallow
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    Labour | 19-08
  • Collins’ actions were wrong, not unwise
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    Labour | 19-08
  • Public servants behaving with more integrity than their masters
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    Labour | 19-08
  • Phil Twyford Speech to NZCID
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    Labour | 19-08
  • Labour commits to independent Foreign Affairs and Trade
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    Labour | 19-08
  • Key must sack Collins over abhorrent actions
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    Labour | 19-08
  • It’s downhill from here under National
    The forecast drop in exports and predicted halving of growth shows that it’s downhill from here with National, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Growth under this Government peaked in June and halves to two per cent in coming years....
    Labour | 19-08
  • John Key loses moral compass over Collins
    John Key has lost his moral compass over Judith Collins’ involvement with Cameron Slater and lost touch with New Zealanders’ sense of right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “Whoever is Prime Minister there are expectations they will not...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Mana Movement General Election 2014 List confirmed
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    Mana | 18-08
  • PREFU likely to confirm dropping exports
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    Labour | 18-08
  • Record profits while Kiwis face a cold winter
    The record profits by two of New Zealand’s largest electricity companies will be a bitter pill for New Zealand households who are paying record amounts for their power, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “No doubt the Key government will...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time for John Key to answer yes or no questions
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    Labour | 18-08
  • Key must clarify who signed out SIS OIA
    Yet again John Key is proving incapable of answering a simple question on an extremely important issue – this time who signed off Cameron Slater’s fast-tracked SIS OIA request on Phil Goff, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “John Key’s claim...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time to invest in our tertiary education system
    A Labour Government will fully review the student support system – including allowances, loans, accommodation support and scholarships – with a view to increasing access and making the system fair, transparent and sustainable, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Maryan Street says....
    Labour | 17-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Denis Tegg – When Did We Agree To Our Data Being Shared with ...
    New shocking evidence has emerged from Edward Snowden’s trove of documents about a program called ICREACH under which data collected by the GCSB is shared with 23 US spy agencies. Under new sharing agreements which appear to have commenced immediately after...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Why Internet MANA are the best political friends the Greens could ever get
    Metiria at last nights #GreenRoomNZ: standing on the shoulders and camera cases of giants  NZers, regardless of political spectrum or apathy level, have a wonderful beach cricket egalitarianism about us. If we can objectively conclude a winner, then that person...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Sick of the Sleaze? Protest against National’s dirty politics THIS SATURD...
    Sick of the Sleaze? Protest now dammit! Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government’s track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Sir Edmund Thomas – Address at Nicky Hager public meeting
    I regard it as privilege to chair this public meeting. I have long had the greatest admiration for Nicky Hager’s work, and nothing I have read or heard in the media over the past week or so has caused me...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Labour and New Zealand Superannuation
    The kerfuffle in the wake of Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics has had a detrimental impact on our discussion of economic policies. Signs are that the main beneficiaries of the dirty politics revelations will be Winston Peters and Colin Craig; certainly National suffered...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Coalition for Better Broadcasting – Mike Hosking and the Leader’s Debat...
    A few weeks ago I blogged that Mike Hosking was a terrible choice as moderator for the TV One Party Leader’s Debate, because he is so embarrassingly biased in favour of John Key. So I watched the show with curiosity,...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Democracy and Cancer: A critical analysis of Dirty Politics
    Twenty years ago, England’s renowned television playwright Denis Potter died of pancreatic cancer.  Readers may recall his two masterpieces ‘Pennies from Heaven’ and ‘The Singing Detective’.  During a final television interview with Melvyn Bragg, Potter declared that he had named...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Cunliffe beats Key in First Leaders debate
    I watched the First Leaders debate at the Green Party #GreenRoomNZ, they were very kind to include me and the atmosphere was great. The debate was a resounding victory to Cunliffe. He won Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 and...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • LIVE STREAM: The Green Room Leader’s Debate from 6:30pm
    The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding to the debate live, along with comment from thought leaders and commentators. ‘The Green Room’ 6pm – 8.30pm...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • How many taxpayer funded staff does John Key need to prepare for a Leaders ...
    John Key is currently at the Auckland Stamford Plaza with 40 staff, 4 undercover police cars and an entire floor booked out in preparation for tonights Leader’s debate. Isn’t 40 staff including coms, flown up to Auckland for a debate...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • A brief word on National Party Rodney MP, Mark Mitchell
    MP considers legal action against Nicky HagerThe National MP says he is considering taking a defamation case after the September 20 election.“Someone needs to be held accountable,” he said. Oh really champ? Brothers and sisters, there is a long way...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Greens advertise on Whaleoil – but not on The Daily Blog?
    PaknSave have shown ethical compass and blocked adverts on Whaleoil, yet the Greens are advertising on Whaleoil, and not The Daily Blog? I would imagine there are far more potential Green voters on The Daily Blog then ever are on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • It’s about the stupid economy stupid
    In focus group meetings, the sleepy hobbits of NZ by a staggering amount all believe that National are better economic stewards of the country than Labour, that’s why, instead of answering questions about blackmailing MPs, trawling brothels for dirt on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Labour Policy vs National Policy
    John Key’s favourite defence spin at the moment is people want to talk about policy and not hear answers on the ethics of trawling brothels, why Slater was given SIS information, blackmailing MPs into standing down, rigging candidate elections and hacking...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • The Green Room live streamed on TDB 6.30pm tonight for First Leaders debate
    The ‘Green Room’ will stream 6.pm tonight on The Daily Blog during the TV One leaders’ debate.Use #GreenRoomNZ to join in. The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Manukau East – the next Coalition in action
    A couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure of opening Voice Up – a youth forum run by young people in Otara. I had been asked as Chair of the Local Board to set the scene, encouraging young people...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Big Bang Theory
    It’s a shame that it took a brain injury for me to start seeing things with such startling clarity. The realisation that lawyering, fishing, parenting, selling cars and racing yachts had common themes was stunning. Not perhaps as stunning as...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how much Key aro...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls
    MIL OSI – Source: Selwyn Manning – Analysis Headline: 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls 5AA Australia: On this week’s Across the Ditch bulletin on 5AA Australia, host Peter Godfery and Selwyn Manning discuss the aftermath...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • La’o Hamutuk calls for inquiry into Timor GAP ‘mismanagement’ of oil ...
    The Suai project on the South Coast … “liberated” land but confused communities.Photo: La’o Hamutuk David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. AN INDEPENDENT Timor-Leste development and social justice agency has called for an inquiry into the Timor GAP corporation...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • What Is Nicky Hager?
    WHAT WILL HISTORY MAKE of Nicky Hager? That slight, perpetually boyish, journalist who descends periodically, like the admonishing angel in a medieval mystery play, to trouble our consciences and wreak merry havoc with the orderly conduct of our political affairs....
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Can anyone in msm explain how after Dirty Politics that they all got played...
    Would you not think, that after reading Dirty Politics, that our mainstream media wouldn’t allow themselves to get tricked and played again by the VERY SAME discredited pundits? The best new feature on Radio NZ is their ‘Blog Watch’ and their...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Crusher Collins caught out lying about Privacy Commissioner – is this her...
    Crusher angry. Crusher smash own career. Crusher more angry. You would think that after getting outed as such a nasty, vicious piece of work in Dirty Politics, that Crusher would be scrambling to dial back the lies and manipulations. Apparently...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Cunliffe vs Key – first leaders debate
    This is your election ‘moderator’ – just one more reason an incoming Government need to sack everyone at TVNZ and reform it into an actual public broadcaster. The first leaders debate happens this Thursday, 7pm on TV One. I have...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – An Old and Honourable Profession
      When Dirty Politics started to reference an ex-prostitute I began to get antsy. My first response was “come on Nicky, we decriminalised in 2003. Its sex worker.” My second response was “Ah oh. Who was it and did they...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Bought and paid for: the dirty politics of climate denial
    Has climate denial in New Zealand been bought and paid for by corporate interests? We already know that the ACT Party’s routine denial is closely linked to the financial support the party receives from wealthy free market fundamentalist Alan Gibbs,...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • If the msm read The Daily Blog, THIS wouldn’t be a surprise – explainin...
    Yawn. How embarrassing for Hamish Rutherford and Andrea Vance, their breathless article today suggests that the idea of Labour and NZ First cutting a  deal over the buy back of assets  is some how new news. Silly mainstream media  journalists. If...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker??
    Yesterday I did some calculations to find out what tax John Key pays compared to a worker on the minimum wage. And I put out this media release for the Mana Movement: MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Hip hop death threats – the selective outrage of our media
    PM death threat in hip hop songAn Auckland hip-hop crew slammed for releasing a song with lyrics that apparently include a threat to kill Prime Minister John Key are urging young people to enrol to vote. Kill The PM, by...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes
    Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this!
    I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this weird spear tackle from behind by his own company. I was listening to this interview at the time, and the awkwardness of it must be the worst...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Is it weird Radio NZ ban me yet still have….
    Is it weird Radio NZ ban me for life because I criticised the Prime Minister yet still have Matthew Hooton, David Farrar and Jordan Williams, 3 of the main protagonists revealed in Dirty Politics as part of their ongoing political...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Christchurch GCSB meeting – why mass surveillance matters in 2014
    This is the video for last weeks GCSB meeting in Christchurch. Don’t forget Nicky Hager’s public meeting Wednesday night in Auckland, TDB will live stream the event in the interests of our democracy. Broadcast starts 7.30pm here on TDB....
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Assange, Greenwald to appear at Town Hall meeting? + KDC is not the hacker ...
    Wikileaks founder and the engineer of revealing some of the largest abuses of power in the modern era, Julian Assange, is rumoured to be appearing at the September 15th Town Hall meeting. Assange would join award winning investigative journalist Glen...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Why Paula Bennett will be the next leader and Hooton throws the Prime Minis...
    I don’t think the public have any idea of the behind the scenes meltdown now occurring within National. There are plenty of decent right wingers who all have ethical standards who have looked at what their leaders have been doing and...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – That Awkward Feeling When Your Campaign Goe...
    Urgh. It’s a thankless and nearly impossible task politically firefighting some days. Somebody (who isn’t you, but who’s in your care, or whom you’ve got a close professional relationship with) does or says something stupid; somebody from the Media’s there...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Trinder – Dirty politics goes viral
    Join the latest social networking craze this election that every Dog Cat and Jabba is putting on their facebook pages.     Joe Trinder – Ngāti Awa Born and born in Ōtepoti Ōtākou, Ex RNZN he is an Information Technology...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Blogwatch: An open letter to David Farrar: Please, be that guy
    Dear David, In light of  Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics, you wrote a blog entitled ‘Some changes on Kiwiblog’ and you suggested it was time to tighten up ship on your website, saying “I want to improve trust in myself,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • What The Hell Was That! Reflections on the media’s coverage of the Intern...
    WHAT, EXACTLY, DO WE KNOW about the confrontation outside Internet-Mana’s campaign launch? Well, we know the news media was there in force. We also know Internet-Mana’s media person, Pam Corkery, blew her stack. We know that Corkery’s outburst led the...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • NZ First candidate – homophobic, bennie bashing anti-intellectual clown
    Oh God, apart from Ron Mark, Tracey Martin, Curwen Rolinson and Winston before midday, the woeful cavalcade of political circus freaks NZ First seem to attract has picked up another hitchhiker. This time Epsom candidate Cliff Lyon who said this about Labour… “If...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Nicky Hager Public Meeting LIVESTREAM on The Daily Blog 7.30pm Wednesday 27...
    As part of our commitment to the 2014 Election debate, The Daily Blog will Livestream the Nicky Hager public meeting in Auckland, 7.30pm live from the Mt Eden War Memorial this Wednesday on this site. Doors open at 7pm. It...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Opening Night. It’s like an opera!
    On Saturday night just gone, we collectively experienced one of the premier panegyrys of political pageantry in our three yearly electoral cycle. For one glorious weekend evening every three years, it’s not the All Blacks or some Super 14 team, or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Unions – what ...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Timor-Leste’s Parliament handed ‘humiliating’ defeat over harsh media...
    East Timorese journalists raise their hands to approve the Timor-Leste JournalistCode of Ethics in October 2013. Photo: Tempo Semanal/Cafe Pacific   David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. PACIFIC SCOOP reported this week that East Timor’s Appeal Court had scrapped...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • THIS is why we need a public broadcaster!
    The richest 20% of us in NZ own 70% of the wealth, with 18% in the hands of the second richest quintile, and 10% in the hands of the middle quintile. Just 2 per cent was owned by people in...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • A vote for Key is a vote for this
    A vote for Key is a vote for this...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Why the Secret Intelligence Service feeding Cameron Slater information is s...
    Folks, it doesn’t matter if you are Right or Left, the issue of the Secret Intelligence Service being forced to feed a far right hate speech merchant like Cameron Slater with sensitive information is an ‘us’ issue. The SIS are...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • How lost and irrelevant are ACT?
    So ACT had it’s ‘launch’. Well, what passes as an ACT launch these days. Lot’s of anorak’s with that 1000 yard star and dreams of a Milton Friedman Free Market dancing behind their eyelids all crammed into a room small...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Party rowing advert aimed at Gen Xers
    Unkind wags such as myself would suggest that if the above were a real representation of National, it would look more like this…   National know they have the rural mob and the angry provincial vote locked in, with their...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Housing propaganda – McGehan Close Revisited
    .   . Housing has become a major, defining issue in New Zealand. We have critical shortages and escalating prices in  in the main centres and falling house values in the regions. The National government has addressed the supply &...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • New Zealand’s biggest problems are Economic Issues
    New Zealand’s biggest problems are Economic Issues (41%) while the World’s most important problems are War & Terrorism (35%) just three weeks before NZ Election...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • NZ 2014 Leaders Index – week ending 29 August
    Below is iSentia’s first weekly Leaders’ Index, showing the relative amount of coverage of nine Party Leaders in the lead up to the National Election across news media and social media. We will produce these reports for the next three...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Judgment in Paki v Attorney General
    Tamaiti Cairns said that today’s Supreme Court decision is complicated, but, in essence opens the door for Maori people to go forward with their essential claims to water. Further work is required and Pouakani Trust will continue to pursue its...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Supreme Court Decision on Maori Water Rights
    “ … the Supreme Court refused to give Pouakani people what they asked for, but may have given them something much, much better instead. The Appellants had argued that the Crown’s ownership of the River was as a fiduciary for...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Leaders Dinner with Campbell Live, Dessert with RadioLIVE
    John Campbell is hosting Colin Craig, Winston Peters, Laila Harre, Metiria Turei, Peter Dunne, Jamie Whyte and Te Ururoa Flavell LIVE from Auckland’s Grand Harbour Restaurant on Wednesday 3 September at 7pm....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Credit unions in the political spotlight
    Dirty politics was put aside last night as senior politicians outlined their universal support for growing the cooperatively owned credit union and mutual building society sector in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Maryan Street on issues of importance to older people
    Liam Butler interviews Hon Maryan Street MP on issues of importance to older New Zealanders...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • John Hanita Paki and others v The Attorney-General
    JOHN HANITA PAKI, TORIWAI ROTARANGI, TAUHOPA TE WANO HEPI, MATIU MAMAE PITIROI AND GEORGE MONGAMONGA RAWHITI v THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL OF NEW ZEALAND FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE CROWN (“THE CROWN”) (SC 7/2010)...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Last Nights Leaders Debate Drives The #nzpol Wordcloud
    Following last nights leaders debate on TV One between John Key and David Cunliffe, the data insight organisation Qrious collected all tweets that used the hashtag #nzpol from approximately the last 24 hours to produce this wordcloud....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Campaign suggests reason behind suicide gender statistics
    An online campaign about meaning and belonging has revealed an interesting connection with the difference in suicide rates between men and women....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Act Policy Vindicated by Sensible Sentencing Data
    ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte says the Sensible Sentencing Trust's just released analysis of 3 Strikes legislation "proves ACT was right to promote the policy and that it has made New Zealand a much safer country. The figures show beyond...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • “Robin Hood tax and other clever ways to help our kids”
    It’s time to talk about tax. Not just income tax but other kinds of tax too....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Cannabis Laws Breach Treaty – ALCP
    Cannabis prohibition is neo-colonial oppression resulting in the disproportionate imprisonment of Maori, the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party says....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • 2014 Variation Broadcasting Allocation Decision Released
    The Electoral Commission has released a variation decision on the amount of time and money allocated to political parties for the broadcasting of election programmes for the 2014 General Election....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • New Zealand Shoppers- Demand Blue Tick Accredited Products
    Following ongoing concerns surrounding the issue of animal welfare in farming, particularly in the layer and broiler chicken sectors, the RNZSPCA is now asking consumers to purchase only eggs, pork, turkey and chicken that have been Accredited by the Blue...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • EDS welcomes Labour’s Environment Policy
    The Environmental Defence Society has welcomed Labour’s Environment Policy which recognises that New Zealand cannot have a healthy economy without a healthy environment....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Candidate calls for an end to institutional racism
    29 AUGUST 2014 Tāmaki Makaurau candidate, Rangi McLean has spoken up in support of Irie Te Wehi-Takerei who was wrongfully accused of shoplifting at a Warehouse store in Manukau. "Over the last month, two different supermarkets have been...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Making tertiary education more accessible to Māori
    29 August 2014 The Māori Party launched its tertiary education policy today at Te Huinga Tauira o Te Mana Ākonga, the national hui for the Māori Teritary Students Association in Palmerston North. Te Tai Hauāuru candidate Chris McKenzie says the...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • NZ Sign Language programmes receives $11 million boost
    Deaf Aotearoa are thrilled with Education minister Hekia Parata’s announcement this week that $11 million in funding will go towards a range of New Zealand Sign Language initiatives, including First Signs – a programme that involves sign language...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Abortion violates the Human Rights of Fathers
    Fathers1Right to Life is concerned at the glaring imbalance that exists in law, in regard to the rights of men to defend the lives of the children they have fathered. Fatherhood commences at conception. Children in the womb, just like...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Hundreds to join march against male violence in Auckland CBD
    Hundreds of supporters are expected to join the 'Take Back the Night' march through central Auckland streets tomorrow night in solidarity with making the streets safe for women and the rainbow community to walk without fear of male violence....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Classic example of need for Conservative policy
    The Conservative Party Justice Spokesman, Garth McVicar believes the sentencing of killer Aaron McDonald is a classic example of why an overhaul of the parole and sentencing system is required.”...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Greens & Labour Politicising Bullying in Schools
    Family First NZ says that both the Greens and Labour are wanting to politicise and sexualise school children under the guise of bullying programmes rather than deal with the school bullying issue as it should be dealt with....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • Wellington National Is Not Our Future Rally 30/8/14
    Thousands of people will march and rally at National is not our Future events on Saturday. Auckland is the main rally centre with supportive actions in Wellington, Dunedin, Christchurch and Hamilton. In Wellington, marchers will assemble at Te Papa...
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • EPA grants marine consent for OMV exploration well
    The Environmental Protection Authority has granted a marine consent to OMV New Zealand Ltd for its Whio-1 exploration well in the Taranaki Basin....
    Scoop politics | 29-08
  • First anniversary of the horrific chemical attacks on Syria
    Members of the Syrian Community and friends are commemorating the first anniversary of the horrific chemical attacks on Syria, in Aotea Square on Saturday 30 August 2014, between 11-3 pm. The Assad regimes chemical attacks on al Ghouta were responsible...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Anniversary of the NZ Occupation of German Samoa
    Today, 29th August 2014, marks the 100 years centenary of the occupation of Samoa by New Zealand forces at the request of the British empire, ending the German rule of Samoa. It is also the starting point for the special...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Submissions sought on mosquito repellent
    The Environmental Protection Authority is calling for submissions on a portable mosquito repellent for use outdoors. The repellent consists of a strip impregnated with metofluthrin, a substance from the pyrethroid family....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Spot the difference – the leaders debate
    I watched the Leaders' debate last night and was struck by the fact that John Key accepted all of David Cunliffe's basic assumptions. For example, he did not say that the government should not tell farmers who they could sell...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Colin Craig’s tax figures do not add up and are dishonest
    “Colin Craig’s tax plan is to have two rates of income tax: 0% up to $20,000 and 25% above that. This will leave a $6.4 billion hole in the budget even before the new spending proposed by the Conservatives. The...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Dirty Politics Impacts National Party Support
    Media Release – For Immediate Release Dirty Politics Impacts National Party Support Support for National has dropped by 4.3% to 50.8%, the latest stuff.co.nz / Ipsos political poll shows....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Labour’s environment policy welcomed
    The independent conservation organisation Forest & Bird says that overall the Labour Party’s newly released environment policy would go a long way towards protecting New Zealand’s natural heritage....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • National: Not our Future Marches across New Zealand
    Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government's track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin to oppose National's...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Tune in to tonight’s debate from 7pm
    The countdown is on! You can watch the first leader’s debate for 2014 tonight, 7pm, on TV One ....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Gamblefree Day 1 September
    It's Gamblefree Day this Monday 1 September, the national awareness day for problem gambling in New Zealand. While traditionally celebrated on the first day of September, many events and activities are held both before and after this day to raise...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Success through captioning should be a given as a Right
    Success through captioning should be a given as a Right per the Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Alcohol Marketing Committee Questions Government’s Motives
    An Independent Expert Committee on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (IECAAS) has been formed out of concern amongst alcohol and public health researchers about the government’s Ministerial Forum on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (MFAAS)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • How Much Higher Can Auckland Prices Go?
    National's plan to liberalise the use of Kiwisaver funds and its proposal to raise ts cheap "Welcome Home" loan thresholds to help buyers purchase a new home has been welcomed by home building companies but attacked as a "welfare scheme...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • OPC submission period extended
    We have extended the submission period for the modified reassessment of a bee control affecting five organophosphate and carbamate insecticides (APP202142)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Vinay Deobhakta struck off roll of barristers and solicitors
    The New Zealand Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal has ordered former Tauranga lawyer Vinay Deobhakta to be struck off the roll of barristers and solicitors....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Major parties to front up for Climate Voter election debate
    New Zealand’s main political parties will take part in ‘The Great Climate Voter Debate’ on September 3....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Family violence… too big to be ignored
    As Annah Stretton gears up for her New Zealand Fashion Week show on Thursday she is utilizing her spotlight to help change the face of family violence in this country saying “the problem is far too big to ignore”....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Candidate’s SOS to northern Maori voters: Save our seats!
    (Extract from address by Rev Te Hira Paenga to Kura Hourua Maori Political Leaders hui, in Whangarei this evening)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Mary O’Neill to Stand for the Alliance in Napier
    The Alliance Party has confirmed Mary O’Neill as the Alliance candidate in the Napier Electorate for the 2014 election....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • TONIGHT [28/8/14]: The Great Political Comedy Debate
    It's a night for debating. You could stay home frowning at tonight's Leaders debate, or laugh it up with us at BATS!...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Cunliffe against personal responsibility over billboards
    The accusation by David Cunliffe that the Conservative Party is subscribing to a surveillance society by protecting its billboards via the use of motion sensor cameras reveals an anti-personal responsibility position by the about-to-be-retired Leader...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Groundbreaking health and climate conference
    The World Health Organization (WHO) is holding its first conference on climate change and health at its headquarters in Geneva this week, with New Zealand health experts in attendance....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Te Tai Tokerau Party
    Last night at the Leadership Academy of Company A debate Clinton Dearlove announced the creation of a new political party supported by Whanau and Hapu....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Significant fallout from Dirty Politics allegations
    Dirty politics ... costing National up to 3.8% of its pre-publication support Large numbers of New Zealanders are aware of and talking about the issues raised as a result of the publication of Nicky Hager’s book, Dirty Politics, according to...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Colin Craig is “deluded and dangerous” – Act
    “Colin Craig is proposing a radical transformation of our constitution. The Conservatives are proposing to overthrow of one hundred and fifty odd years of parliamentary democracy and replace it with binding referenda” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
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