A couple of days ago ‘Open Mike’ kicked off with the first 3 comments pointedly opposing the Labour plan to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67,(i really should stop living in the past i know),
This struck a bit of a chord and in a couple of hours of comments i managed to count to 15 the number of commenters who oppose the plan to raise the age of entitlement,(that’s not an exact total as i only had the use of two hands worth of digits and thumbs,plus the use of a foot where i did notice that a thumb isn’t apparent and had to use a big toe),
What’s it worth out there in the wider electorate in terms of votes this raising of the age of entitlement for super???, my guess,and, this includes the belief that this one policy flogged repeatedly by Phill Goff during the 2011 election campaign cost Labour then at least 2% of the vote, is that as it was last time round their is a deep vein of opposition among what could/should be the core Labour Party vote to this policy, in numbers probably 2-5% of that vote,
CV and others have pointed out that raising the age of entitlement isn’t Labour Party policy based upon the will of the shop floor, for some unfathomable reason the decision on this was left to Labour’s MP’s, and for an even more unfathomable reason those MP’s have chosen to cling to such a vote losing hangover of the Neo-Liberal economic Ism,
David Parker, Labour’s finance spokesman, to me a shadowy figure who says little that is publicly broadcast can hardly be trusted as anything other than a ‘Rogernome’ after the bizarre ”There is no Alternative” comment over this very issue a few weeks back, and, ACT’s backing of the same policy this week does not cast Parker in any better light,(in my opinion),
There are Alternatives, to raising the age of superannuation, and, as i have alluded to above, this issue unless handled delicately may just cost Labour the 2014 election, trotting out the hated Ruth Richardson ”There is no Alternative” is hardly delicate and there are other options,
(1),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement for Superannuation as it is and raise taxation to pay for the bulge in costs as the Baby Boomer generation reaches retirement age,
(2),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement as it is, BUT,means test the pension against income from wages and assets,
(3), The Labour policy, raise the age of entitlement to 67, there is no visible promise to not revisit this in the future with another imperative,(TINA),to again raise the entitlement age to 70 which in some overseas jurisdictions is occurring now, AND,once the Baby Boomer bulge has been successfully negotiated there is again no visible promise to lower the age of entitlement back to 65 which makes me even more distrustful of the proponents of raising the super age to 67,
Is this one policy of Labour’s one that could be the difference of being the Government or the Opposition after the 2014 election, my view You Bet, and, Labour need back away from this policy NOW, but, NOW with a plan,
i would propose that Labour loudly and with the maximum amount of publicity back away from the current policy of raising the age of entitlement to superannuation and propose to the electorate a Referendum on this very issue at the 2017 election,
Such a referendum would have to include options 2 and 3 above, and, from the comments here in ‘open mike’ a couple of days ago,(i know i have to move on from the past), my view is option 2 above would be the popular view,
If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30’s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….
“If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30′s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….”
Do it. Tell him. This policy is a headache. It’s alarming that they even raised it, but are now sticking to it.
i may in my comment above look like i might be being a little ‘shifty’ when i talk of the Baby Boomer generation as the imperative to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67, as the current ”narrative” has moved on from the Baby Boomers,
Using ‘averages’ the current claim surrounding the need to raise the age for super entitlement is that ”we are all living longer”,
i would suggest to everyone that such is simply another Neo-Liberal LIE, ‘we’ in the blinkered view of the Neo-Lib’s specifically does not include the 300–500,000 in the bottom end of the income brackets more likely as not to be providing the heavy labour to the economy in order to win their daily bread,
myself, hell if i actually hit 65 i am going to announce a modern miracle, demand to be declared a Saint, and, also demand the right to levitate,(i’m working on the latter)…
Hi bad12. Yeah, that whole “we are living longer” is a fairly fragile argument. It’s has to be considered how well we live and how there may be a smaller percentage, i.e., those able to afford good healthcare, good housing, good food and have low stress jobs that are the ones “living longer”.
I’m sure if it were to be analysed as it probably has some where, that those living longer in the future will only be those who have access to the above good things in life. That big chunk of lower income worker’s you are referring to above currently have decreasing access to healthcare, good housing and stable jobs, as a result of govt policy over the last thirty years, plus theres the group of those that do manual labour whose bodies will wear out faster (as you point out).
I wonder if that “bell curve” in the stats will begin to decline as time goes on and as govt policy starts impacting negatively on longevity.
I’m interested in seeing the levitation myself. Saints are usually a bit boring. I don’t think bad12 is cut out for sainthood, he should hang out in a more interesting ‘hood.
Greywarbler, how would you know the extent of being intersting or not as far as the particular hood i hang out in is,
Not cut out for Sainthood,hell born into a low socio-economic Porirua family with one parent an alcoholic and the other addicted to pharmacy products, putting aside the ‘innoncence’ question for the moment, i have done the jail tour from Invercargill to Pare Max, and, been binned a number of times so the men in white coats can check out what makes me tick, and that was just the first 22 years,
There’s gotta be more than a couple of brownie points in a life lived less than ordinary and the way i see it all i have to do is find this God deity that everyone bangs on about and run a Slippery tax switch line or two past Her/Him to fix that ‘innocence’ issue, and, it’s a shoe in…
And again I say, lo to you, bad12 you are too good for sainthood. And I think I guessed pretty well that the particular hood you hang out in is far from boring and saintly. From what you say it confirms my guess. But you could make a great movie about your life, sort of like that Peter Fonda one I think called Easy Rider.
Have you had anything to do with Jim Moriarty?
Greywarbler, nah i was doing my penal penance way befor Jim got involved, ah i think you have been slightly tainted in your views of the saints by the Biblical versions,
The drunken, womanizing, brawling Saints of old Ireland would seem to be more my ‘style’…
Those old Catholics certainly seemed to enjoy the temporal in a more straightforward way than some of the sanctimonious ones that have shamed their calling of recent times.
It’s time we knew more about David Parker. Briefly – as per Wikpedia.
Background
From South. Went to Uni Otago studying law and business. Co-founded Dunedin Community Law Centre.
Was litigation partner in law firm. Then was in business in agri-buiotech field inluding Blis Technologies where was manager.
In parliament 2002 winning victory in the Otago seat.
Lost in 2005 to Jacqui Dean but returned on List.
2008 stood for Waitaki but Jacqui Dean won by over 11,000 votes, but returned as on List.
Was in 2005 Attorney-General and Minister of Energy & Minister of Transport &
Minister…Climate Change
Resigned over legal query then reappointed
Regained Energy and Climate Change Land only in 2006.
2008 On Labour’s loss, he became Opp spokesperson Conservation ACC and Shadow Attorney-General.
2010 Opp Leader Phil Goff appointed Parker Spokesperson for Ec Development (from Shane Jones) – Conservation went to Chris Carter.
Parker RAN for leadership in 2011 but withdrew to support David Shearer.
Now Labour sp/person for Finance (late 2011) and shadow Attorney-G (Feb 2013).
At 17 September 2013 named Deputy Leader of Labour Party with Finance Portfolio.
Where has he shown a particular interest in finance? Where has he indicated a particular interest in micro-economics or in national building? It seems as if the mantle has been bestowed by Phil Goff. And he has not been a shining success either in the electorate or good enough background to be appointed to the Finance position.
Our problem is one of working hard and then metaphorically going out and losing our putea in the casino or pissing it away? Exactly the behaviour of a majority of hard working men of old colonial times. Time for an innovative change not the same old, same old. (And not prohibition either, not that sort of radical.)
Raising the old age pension age to 67 and beyond is merely delaying exercising the little grey cells. Where is Poirot when you need him?
This is a policy which ACT supports. That should ring alarm bells automatically.
Let your local Labour MP know that this is BAD policy. The Labour party should not be about austerity and cutting entitlements to the workers of this country.
I think the problem is that in the next 10 years the age will lift to 67 or higher because there is no alternative. The Treasury knows there is no alternative – same applies to the financial markets, the OECD. So Labour might was well do it and get the credit from the markets and the OECD – that could be a real boost. If it stays at 65 we will look like an outlier internationally.
An increase will also enable fiscal consolidation, higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.
I also think it would be a vote winner for Labour. I hope that David Parker prevails in the debate. He is s one of Labour’s more sensible front benchers.
Old people are a drain on society. There is going to be more of them making them a bigger drain. That is a fact we all agree on.
The ACT/Parker solution is we simply cut entitlements to those workers who have contibuted thoughout their working lives so that rich pricks can buy another investment property further distorting the property market.
That is the guts of it.
This nation can afford to look after its elderly workers. There is no need for austerity.
Danske Mobler – NZ already has some of the lowest taxes in the world.
Deborah Russells excellent comments to ColonialViper on her guest post highlighted how the effective tax rate for high income earnings is actually low, comparatively.
The more you earn, the less taxes you pay.
Personally, I’d introduce the following
Sale Tax on every property. CGT is unworkable and able to be manipulated. A sale tax on every property whether it be commercial, land or residential will raise far more income than any other tax.
Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income. By contrast, CGT is only expected to bring in $4 billion at optimistic best.
A sale tax on all property would bring in well over $5 billion a year, and is unable to be avoided as it is paid at the point of purchase.
Death Duty
You die with millions in assets, your estate gets taxed 10% irrespective of whether its in trust or not.
Income tax
Leave the existing progressive system, maybe bump up the thresholds so 17.5% applies to the first $60,000, 25% up to $150,000, then 35% over $150,000 to $499,999 then
$500,000 subject to a tax rate of 70% on every dollar earned over $500,000 which increases to a rate of 90% on every dollar earned over $750,000.
Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income.
I don’t think you have thought this through.
For example, I have to leave my home next year. My house is worth exactly what I paid for it 2 years ago (and continue to pay through my mortgage), and I’m on a fixed low income. How could this possibly be fair?
I would be made to pay $20,000 despite there being no profit or income from my home. And it is the same percentage as someone selling their home after twenty years, worth 10 times what they paid for it. So if someone bought my home twenty years ago for a tenth of what it is now worth, they would pay exactly the same tax as I would.
Then there is the 4% real estate agency fees on top of this. There would be no capital gain to offset any of this.
Simpler doesn’t necessarily mean better or fairer.
I’m with you on death duties being reinstated and more progressive taxation, though.
Why would you be the one paying the tax as the seller? I liken it to the fact that the seller doesn’t pay GST, the purchaser does. Perhaps calling it a “sale tax” is a misnomer. Maybe a Property Tax would be more appropriate. I do not advocate for a seller paying such a tax, only a purchaser would.
I can already see the moaning minnies trying to make out that making buyers pay a sales tax would effectively shut them out of the market – not really. They wouldn’t be any more shut out than now.
Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.
Combine that with an inability for any type of residential landlord to treat renting a residential property out as a business and the associated tax deductions that go with that, will combine to deflate the property market slightly and have more availability of properties for first home buyers thus depressing the upward trajectory of property prices.
Then one step further, and allow for home owners to claim deductions on a few things such as interest payments, maintenance etc, like they do in the states.
Allowing home owners to claim for such things (there would have to be a $ cap on the total amount that could be claimed either during the life of the mortgage, or in a given year) means more secure and stable communities populated by home owners, rather than transient renters, which may be transient due to the landlord, or other factors.
Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.
Why on earth do you expect a capital gain. If you have added to the value of your property it will surely be reflected in the sale price. But disregarding improvements there is absolutely no reason for you to expect some sort of windfall just because you have owned the property for two years.
How about your car. If its two years since you purchased it do you expect a capital gain on its resale?
Of course not.
Our problem it seems to me is that all land should be owned by the state. You would then purchase the house and pay a rental to the state for use of the land.
On sale of the house you would get exactly what the house is worth after depreciation. As you house gets older it would eventually be worth very little and at some stage a new house would be built and sold but the land would still be owned by the state. The land never changes so one would not expect it to get very expensive. Its just dirt.
There are variations on this idea that would include not being able to pass it on to descendants.
Then there is the 4% real estate agency fees on top of this. There would be no capital gain to offset any of this.
Who said anything about wanting a capital gain? I don’t.
I was commenting on the fact that the sales tax, as proposed, seemed unfair because it wasn’t related to the size of any profit made on a property.
I don’t want profit, but I have to leave. So, I don’t think it is fair that, in the absence of profit, I should be hit with a $20,000 bill just because I have to move house (at whichever end I end up having to pay it).
This would be a huge amount of money to find in my circumstances. If the money taken was part of a fairer, more extensive, and highly graduated change in taxation aimed at a fairer distribution of resources all round, and massively improved public services, I would feel differently.
Also, this isn’t part of a wider discussion about private property itself and especially the commodification of land. That’s a whole other conversation. I’m saying this idea would not lead to greater fairness in the actual circumstances in which we happen to find ourselves.
The short version is – this would just be another flat-tax like GST which would impact disproportionately on those with the least and increase the gap between the rich and poor.
higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.
I can just see their thinking. A generation ago they got the women slaving for them in their factories, offices and shops – now they want to beat another decade of our lives out of us all.
SSLands, your support of David Parker simply adds weight to my view that He is a closet ‘Rogernome’ only to willing to shove unpopular policies down the throats of the people whether they like it or not,
Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets against your ability to collect a full entitlement of Superannuation,
Can you please stop LYING, is not Germany a member of the OECD, that particular country has in fact kept it’s age of entitlement at 65 while bringing in another entitlement of age 63,(with qualifications),
You were linked to this fact a couple of days ago and having to continually rebut your fucking lies becomes tiresome and is one of the reasons the majority of readers and conmenters here think you are nothing but a Tr–lling shit-head…
Germany is high performing economy with high savings rates.
“Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets”
No. Remember I am a lowly bean counter at a firm of tax lawyers. We don’t get paid much. Or has your mate veutoviper, who has been stalking me on LinkedIn been talking to you?
Anyway there are so few rich people in New Zealand that means testing wouldn’t save much. It also creates another army of state servants and incentives problems.
I really encourage David parker to keep this policy. He is a good guy. Hoefully he is planning some party events to promote His policy. he will be the Finance Minister in 7 months so he deserves some respect.
SSLands, you are of course talking from a position of the bovine defecating as usual, most of the population of Auckland will be asset millionaires by the time they retire, most of these asset millionaires will have healthy Kiwisaver retirement incomes,and, at least 200,000 of them will have rental income properties,
That’s just the middle class,
Above that middle class there is in the upper middle class a sizable demographic, those with the coin able to purchase stolen assets with sizable shareholding along with the profitable rental property portfolios and the healthy Kiwisaver accounts,
The sad fact is that those with the most have provided the least in actual sweat in terms of physical labour, and, the toll on physical human structures such physical toil extracts on those that do actually physically sweat for their daily bread means that in terms of longevity it will be those in the bottom third of the economy who will have little chance of reaching an age of entitlement for super of 67 or 70,
My opinion of your employment has been changed in recent days by a little news item which stated that those involved in 5 eyes, the spying upon of their own citizens, have been educated in the insertion of human operatives into political blogs in an effort to disrupt them,
Considering your spew of ill considered comments you would seem a perfect candidate to be one such employee, my view of the current site of your wee office cubilcle is now that it is just as likely to be located in a little office building located on Wellingtons Pipitea street as it is to be found up on the Terrace…
You are simply spouting a whole lot of envy and wanting to get your hands on other peoples money. It is really unbecoming. Any politician who spouted what you spout would be dead as dead.
Look dream all you want – there is seriously no alternative to lifting the super age, and it will happen. The forces will be overwhelming. If John key steps down in 2016, the National Government in 2017-2020 will do it.
I repeat – this is a vote winner for Labour. It will be immensely popular. i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age.
And dude stop being paranoid. The GCSB are not going to bother with The Standard.
Saying that it is inevtiable that the eligibility age will go up to 67 is not crap. Ok the probability is not 100%. But close enough. How is that crap?
It’s crap because the next Labour/Green government will research and budget the feasibility of a Universal Basic Income. Then in 2017 this will be instituted in place of the current rundown social security system.
So there is indeed an alternative, just not one you are capable of understanding. Though I do believe you when you say; ” i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age”, as NZ Super must be a bit of a non-issue over there.
What’s your opinion of the Iwi n Aus protest movement?
The GCSB doesn’t need to bother with blogs like The Standard because as we now know they have trained people to go out and sow havoc across the internet. The only question now is how they arrange payment to all those loyal RWNJ’s
Maybe its an area we could look at taxing as unearned income?
And dude stop being paranoid. The GCSB are not going to bother with The Standard.
Germany has a much higher percentage of 65+ aged households living in poverty than NZ. In fact according to this OECD report NZ has the lowest percentage of its aged population in poverty
I am against means testing for the same reasons I am against income testing.
It is inefficient, potentially unfair, and administratively costly, for little gain.
One alternative, I would advocate others as well. Inheritance taxes are effective, universal and capture intergenerational accumulation of unearned wealth.
Progressive taxation of income and wealth avoids the need to means/income test super.
It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory. Save, and we will cut your pension.
Saving for retirement as an alternative to universal super is simply, yet another privatisation. We all know how well those work for ordinary people.
“It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory.”
I don’t agree. For most people, national super will only provide a fraction of what is needed to live on post-retirement. So you need private retirement income to supplement national super.
It is not an incentive to save if your super is going to be reduced by an amount proportional to your savings. Means tested.
Those who advocate “saving” for super should be mindful of what has happened to so many peoples super savings in the rest of the world. Lost in the GFC.
Having a PAYG universal super, sufficient to live on, is cheaper overall than re-circulating through a financial system which is ever more likely to fail, and have to be bailed by taxpayers, anyway. Again!
That is bullshit. Looking at the returns on my managed funds, they dived for three years after 2008 but have now more than recovered. The NZX based funds are doing great. What are you on about?
Look the reality is that most rational 20 and 30 somethings today should assume they get noting from the Gummnit in retirement. Look after yourself. That means investing in growth funds. Fuck I hope you don’t give financial advice to your kids. (Hey just wait for your government super – it will be sweet as.) yeah.
The government super is a nice little sweetner in retirement but it should be seen as part of a much bigger package.
The funds are asymmetrically distorted due to the impact of the large injection of repatriated earthquake reinsurance and insurance reinvestment (that has been parked there whilst they dribble out settlements)
The large cashflows to NZ that DO NOT appear in the RBNZ external transfers,or as singularitys in the treasury models ,have an interesting effect they have forced jump like statistics in GDP etc.
SSLands, it must be time for a party, you have for once in your miserable commenting existence on the Standard made part of a comment which to all the readers once it is isolated will make perfect sense,
Your comment RE the 20 and 30 somethings planning for NO superannuation when they get to retirement age is a gem,
Admit it SSLands, the whole Neo-Liberal dogma surrounding Superannuation has been a vicious lie all along, the REAL PLAN, all along has been for Superannuation to be scrapped full stop,
This obviously in terms of politics has to be accomplished by incremental degrees moving the age of entitelment further and further out in terms of age,
After all the first and most effected by these incremental dis-entitlements will be the poor, the low waged, and the low paid manual workers wont they SSLands, but then you have scant concern for those with low incomes or a shorter life-span of the ability to provide their labour to the economy and/or provide sufficiently for their retirement, these people just do not exist in your bubble do they,
Thanks for the info SSLands, it just proves that every move made around the age of entitlement and the introduction of individual retirement savings soon to be made compulsory has been to pander to the Neo-Liberal Ism…
Tell that to all the Icelanders, Cypriots, yanks, poms and Irish whose retirement savings disappeared in the GFC.
Not to mention all the Kiwis who lost their shirts in 1987.
Haven’t you heard of the law of gravity. What goes up must come down. I knew a lot of people in the 80’s who thought it no longer applied, also!
Raising the retirement age is and was suicide for the Labour party, don’t they get it a great majority of there voters/members work there guts out and are broken down wrecks by 65.
Also this policy discriminates against a large section of our society/voters Maori and Pacific Islanders who statistically don’t live as long as others in this country, how about we lower the retirement age, that party would get my vote.
They need to drop this stupid policy and take finance off Parker. Why can’t they see it? I get the feeling instead that they’ll see ACT agreeing as a sign that it’s fiscally sensible. Bloody hell, where did the cat drag half of them in from?
Quite agree bad12, it is a really dumb idea. I dont trust David Parker to do what is right for the Labour Party. I still remember the scowl on his face when David Cunliffe was elected. If he doesnt believe in the principles of David Cunliffe’s Labour Party then he needs to get out.
“Unlike the ancient Inuit (who may well have rescinded their noble policy decades ago) we have not built a legend around older people “going out in the snow” to take the burden off their kin folk.”
Above words seem to be attributed to Whyte, but may be O’Sullivan’s own.
Cunliffe should get McCarten to have a word with Parker now!
Belladonna, even on a purely political level it’s a Dumb policy, it probably cost Labour 2% of the vote in 2011 and even if Labour had of squeaked past National/ACT,(it was only a win of 60,000 odd votes), in that election they could not have had a chance of implementing such a policy as they would have had to rely upon both the Green Party and NZFirst to form a Government,
My view is Labour can win the 2014 election simply by backing away from the policy and promising a referendum on the issue at the 2017 election…
I’m not aware of any specific Green Party statements in regard to the Parker/ Prebble proposal of raising the super age. However section 4 of the Income Support Policy states:
“The Green Party will:
Maintain universal New Zealand Superannuation for all New Zealanders 65 years and older, adjusted annually in accordance with movement in the Consumer Price Index…”
But this may become less important if section 1 is implemented:
“The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. “
I agree put it to the people no vote for over 65 year olds. Be a very close call. The reasoning behind the rise to 67 was two fold. We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly. And too many people need to keepworking because of our poor savings record.
“We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly.”
An oft repeated meme, with no supporting evidence.
The alternative is to leave the elderly to starve. Is that what you want?
We supported the elderly, in their childhood, when there were much less workers, (most of their Mums did not work), and suddenly we cannot, after how much of an increase in GDP?
Even in 2125 we still can, if we start with a modest increase in the top tax rates now, to build sustainable capability. May get as “bad” as equal to Australian levels (45% top rate plus State taxes) . And stopped sending all that money out of the country in “so called” retirement savings, to be lost in the next GFC..
I’m on record opposing the rise. I was highly annoyed our LEC carried it. I wanted it scrapped altogether. The wiser choice would have been means tested.
Weka, its interesting how the ”narrative” around the imperative to rasing the age of entitlement is a constantly changing menu of points which do not stand up to scrutiny,
First Baby Boomers is the imperative,next so as to keep the Neo-Liberal agenda moving toward it’s program of incremental gains in having a society without the provision of a Government superannuation scheme the LIE of ”we are all living longer” is trotted forth,
3rd in line for the throne of spurious reasons to destroy Government superannuation is ”we are a nation of poor savers”,
Since when has this ‘nation of poor savers’ been true, since forever would seem to be the only real answer to that question, but, as that nation of poor savers we have managed to provide for superannuation for how long,
The bullshit the Neo-libs will trot out in defence of scrapping superannuation would seem to be never ending…
I think it is generally a good idea to get people working longer and reduce the burden of a pay as you go retirement income scheme. That enables spending on other priorities, such as roads. Critically it also enables tax cuts.
So my argument is really simple – it is akin to welfare spending and less is better.
SSLands, what’s this???, an attempt to resile from your outing of the TRUE neo-Liberal agenda surrounding Government funded Superannuation in the comment you made at 1.42pm???,
Your little hint at tax cuts is just another piece of the picture isn’t it, lets grind the Government superannuation scheme into the dust, not because it is unaffordable per se,
Simply so you and your ilk can then call for more tax cuts….
Well, yes. The less people that need their income topped up by welfare the better.
That means jobs, adequate wages and a functioning economy.
All things that do not happen unless there is both a large and functioning supportive State sector along with an efficient and competitive private sector. Which does not mean domination by a few large offshore owned duopolies, protected by, bought, legislation, favourable to them..
Impossible without taxes.
Though I notice Libertarians are happy to charge , me, taxes to provide regulation, police and army to protect, “their” wealth. (Once they have successfully stolen it from the rest of us).
Note how the numbers needing welfare go up, when the idealogical brain farts beloved by Srylands and co are enacted.
Skinny it’s all about keeping the Hampsters on the wheels as long as they can, clearly somebody has to pay for Key and Co’s lavish lifestyle, so lets convince the suckers they have to work longer for less money then when they do retire feed them peanuts.
It’s not just the disinclination to accept the long established societal condemnation of incestuous relationships (he’s the leader of Act, so won’t believe in the existence of such a thing as society). It’s also his comparison of the risks in pregnancy over the age of 35 with; “the increased risk of congenital disorders in children from incestuous relationships”:
” The probability of having some problem with the children is greater when the mother is over the age of 35 but I’ve never heard anyone suggest that anyone over the age of 35 shouldn’t be allowed to have sex.”
This, mind you, is Whyte’s idea of a “virtuous” position. I’d hate to read the statements of his that he considers sleazy and manipulative. But no doubt there’ll be ample opportunity in coming months.
Well, Jamie Whyte is certainly making his mark as leader of the Act Party. If people were having difficulty telling the shaven-headed Whyte apart from that other shaven-headed guy who used to lead the Act Party, now they know – Whyte is the guy who thinks that incest should be legal. Oh, but only between consenting adults. This begs the question. Given the power dynamics within families – and the difficulties that already exist in establishing consent (and the lack of it) with respect to sexual offending outside the family, Whyte’s proposal would seem to put a new category of people, many of them women, at risk of sexual predation by their kin. Erosion of the consent defence would be a more likely outcome of the legalising of incest than the protection of those relatively rare cases where brothers and sisters fall afoul of the law when they freely and jointly seek to pursue a marital relationship.
But Phillip, you consider those that cannot kick the ciggies to be ”piss weak” despite the evidence presented to you that the nicotine addiction is just as strong as the Heroin one,
So, why wouldn’t people in turn consider you to be a ‘filthy sniveling fucking Junky’ only using marijuana as a crutch because your limited income does not allow you that which you wake up every morning craving for like nothing else on this Earth…
Talking of ignorance Phillip, wasn’t that very ignorance the means by which you attempted to sidestep the links provided to you showing the relative addictive strengths Nicotine V heroin…
..couldn’t/shouldn’t we put all of these (however much justified) internicine-feuds/grudges to one side..
..and focus on winning this election/throwing this bunch of tory-bastards out..?”
Yes! Yes we are phillip. And that is exactly what I said to Martyn last year. It was extremely unhelpful of him to be giving air to his grudges, crazy imagined ones at that. I suggested to him that we need to work collectively if we’re to win, instead of him alienating those who are by nature, his comrades. It went on like that for while……………he remained petulant and after I spoke of the importance of good will he said I could take my goodwill and shove it. (words to that effect)
Charming.
Like I said, I’m not welcome there and I get insulted so there’s only so much I can take in the name of “working together”. I’m also more interested in being away from the keyboard and working alongside like mindeds, IRL, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. It also feel a lot safer meeting with people and discussing ideas and strategy. No pesky electronic eyes and ears.
Nice, i have a nice little surprise coming Tony’s way via the Opposition in a couple of month’s, He can then take this as my parting gift to the Minister of ‘Finding Novel Ways of Denying People Healthcare’,…
The Elna was getting too much of a beating and there are only so many different coloured ginham tableclosths, stripe tie and polka dot combinations. Retirement means he can revert to the Bob Charles knit shirt (with action gusset of course) – or perhaps even a lovely beige safari suit.
Longtime National MP Tony Ryall is set to join a growing list (11) of National MP’s leaving parliament. There is word from insiders that they are worried about Bill English’s balancing of the books.
I guess it’s like a ponzi scheme, the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered. It must be concerning to Joyce who is trying to hold things together that another high ranking MP calls it time.
“the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered”
No. In New Zealand that would be impossible. The Public Finance Act requires the Treasury to publish a PREFU to provide an indication of the most up-to-date economic and fiscal position that an incoming government will face.
Yes yes I am well aware of that Shrilland. As you would also know there are many ways to massage the numbers. The social welfare figures are a classic example of fudging things. Both National & Labour have partaken in that twisted little number.
Now while your slivering about the place, you asked a question ( regarding engaging voters) of which I’ve answered. Now I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice, now I will be fair by adding the Taxpayer Union to the charity list, that’s dependent on them qualifying like some other Unions I have on the list.
How say you? Ya know for the feel good factor of getting the non engaged to vote and take part in the democratic process and all.
“ow I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice.”
Done. When it is set up, contact me with the relevant bank account details.
“Done. When is it setup, contact me with the relevant bank account details”
Oh jolly good. Well I have the troops on the ground rearing to go, however like anything there is a process, all be it slightly bloated. Choosing which charities, critiquing them ( you might need to advise on the Taxpayer Union) then there needs to be an offer of intent letter that Executive Committees need to accept. And of course included is a recommendation that any donations received are ‘somehow’ forwarded as political donations to the relevant party’s. In the case of Taxpayers Union I would assume that would be ACT.
Pity that the numbers are not required to be constantly available.
That’s exactly what needs to happen and in real time as well. There may have been a reason for these things to be made available at preset times back in the days of manual working but in this age of computers and the internet there is no longer any excuse to keep the figures from the people.
Paving the way for Judith Collins to take the health portfolio and pick up where Upton and Shipley left off post 2014…..Job well done for Ryall, who was instructed by Key to ensure that health remains off the radar to ensure there was no repeat of the 1990-1993 fiascos that almost saw National lose the 93 election.
Would that we see (urgently !) a corresponding list of Labour retirees. National appear to have now removed the bulk of their “dead” wood and can look forward to a rejuvenated caucus.
Labour still have the ABC brigade; Mallard,Goff et al.
Note that Bill English is going to be a List only MP (I think?) If so does that tell us that he can quietly slip away after they loose the Election this year. I think it is now 9 to leave National.
Sigh, if only it was ALL of them, Prostetnic Vogon Joyce included – and on the other side, Rogernomes like Goff, King, Mumblefuck (who considers politics beneath him anyway), Mallard, Beltway Grant, Curran (quick, give her a nice pot and make sure she gets watered regularly), Hipkins (red braces, some coke and a trip to 1987 for him)…
on 9toNoon with Kathryn Ryan – Laurie May poet punchy on social issues
10:05 Feature: Laurie May – Alice Springs slam poet
Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet from Alice Springs who challenges societal norms and perspectives on poverty through her spoken-word poetry. She is known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and identity-politics themes. Laurie is in New Zealand to perform in Hamilton and Wellington. http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
Laurie May at Poetry in Motion
Heaven Pizza, Wellington
Wed 5 Mar 7:00pm
Links:
Laurie May’s Facebook page
Hamilton Slamdown Poetry – Facebook page
Poetry in Motion Wellington – Facebook page
Watch Laurie’s poem Facts about Aboriginal deaths in custody – YouTube
From eventfinda –
(Wed 26 February, so done see Wellington. )Hamilton Slamdown Poetry’s inaugural feature poet event stars visiting Australian slam poet Laurie May. The show also includes local poets and an open mic for anyone wanting to ‘give it a go’. Koha collected will go towards funding entrants in the NZ National Poetry Slam 2014.
From Alice Springs, Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet challenging societal norms and perspectives on poverty. Known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and pointed politics of identity themes, Laurie May recently performed for five days at the Woodford Folk Festival, a long-running major creative New Year event in Queensland.
In her first year as a performance poet, she represented Central Australia in the finals of the Australian Poetry Slam in Sydney in 2012, finishing in the top five. After that, she established a monthly event called The Dirty Word in Alice Springs, while acting as poet-in-residence at Page 27 Cafe, where she set up The Poet-Tree for people to hang their poems. She recently hosted and promoted US poet Bob Holman’s visit to Alice Springs, an event called Haiku Death Match and an upcoming show by UK raw poet Paul Case aka Captain of The Rant.
Laurie May and Hamilton Slamdown Poetry are also visiting Fraser High School the following day.
Poetry Slam events are fast becoming popular in New Zealand and Australia. Spoken word poets “slam” two-minute poems in competition judged by audience members and popular acclaim. It’s loud. It’s bold. It’s clever. Young (mostly), sharp, diverse and smart.
The song was a field recording by Sydney artist Morganics. Just the kids, a didge and a tape recorder. Not sure how life has turned out for the mob, but here’s an article from back in the day:
I see Tony Ryall is another rat deseerting the sinking ship.
I only remember him demeaning the dignity of parliament by trying to hand out minties in a cheap stunt.
Cheap tony ryall.
Story just breaking that, surprise, surprise, Tony Whittall may have bought his way out of a murder conviction, which follows to a conclusion that we badly need a corruption-free justice system.
Yes i heard that little piece of news with open disgust in my mind, if this is true the relevant Ministers should be quizzed on this in the House,
The two tier system of Justice which operates in this country is pretty much obvious, the brown kids seen not to have a future are simply thrown into the jail system as fodder for the machine while those who offend from the ‘better’ suburbs are seen to be constantly described as having their futures blighted by even at times the entering of a conviction against their names,
i am not advocating that such kids with the brighter future are tossed to the wolves in the form of the prison system, no-one should be sitting in a jail cell unless they have physically harmed someone or another living creature…
The two tier system of Justice which operates in this country…
I think it’s probably a three tier system. There’s the rich that just don’t get charged, the middle class who will get charged but get light sentences and then there’s everyone else (mostly brown) who get thrown to the wolves.
Hand him over to the families of the West Coast miners in the dead of night and let them decide what justice should be meted out. Guaranteed ‘corruption free justice system’ right there.
And by the way, I reckon that many would be astounded at the level of humanity extended him in such a scenario. We can police ourselves and we can deliver justice to ourselves. Just a shame that we don’t.
Chris Trotter once wrote (regarding a particular, hugely dodgy land deal with Holyoake) that New Zealand isn’t really a country without corruption, we’re just good at calling corruption something else.
That agrees with my experiences. The other difference from countries that are recognised as corrupt is that the entry price in Aotearoa is much higher. In some places, it’s reasonably democratic and $10 will get you off a speeding ticket. Here, you probably need somewhere around a million to get in on the act and get a law changed, or a favourable decision.
This is interesting. Child poverty, and the income inequality gap have both just now been confirmed as having been under-reported by Treasury.
“Finance Minister Bill English has relied heavily on the MSD reports to point to a lack of evidence that inequality is increasing in New Zealand. He was not immediately available for comment.
Treasury blamed the mistakes on human error and breakdowns in process in its relationship with Statistics New Zealand.”
So, what I want to know is – Do they or don’t they believe in magic? Sometimes it seems that they do, but now it seems they are keen to be denying its efficacy…
Treasury admitted substantial errors were made in its calculations of disposable income levels in Kiwi families for recent years, but says the results had no effect on the “real world”.
This no effect in the “real world” suggests that no matter how bad poverty gets there will be no change of policies to alleviate the problem. Good to know.
This year, as Labour and the Greens sought to attack the Government amid claims that there was a growing gap between the rich and poor in New Zealand, English used Perry’s reports to point to the fact that there was no evidence that this was true.
Today’s announcement did not change the overall trend of inequality according to the MSD reports, but suggested statements were made about them knowing the reports were based on incorrect data.
Hmm. The original article has just been updated with those comments. So maybe that’s why Ryall’s retirement announcement has happened today? Quick, everyone – look over here at what Tony’s doing, don’t look at this…
Thursday, so no Key in the House; too late for an oral question to the Minister of Finance? Presumably there’s a deadline, but I couldn’t find it in 30 seconds so gave up.
I think the deadline is 10am or thereabouts. However any MP can call on the Speaker for an urgent debate on a matter of recent occurrence for which there is Ministerial responsibility.
Hmm … that Herald article appeared on the front page “latest news” list of headlines that have been there for an hour or so, but this one was pulled off the front page within minutes.
We would have to ask what exactly is the use of Treasury, everything they report to any Government seems to turn out to be wrong, are the staff of Treasury simply a cadre pushing the barrow of the discredited Neo-Liberal ism using their position to downplay the negative social statistics while trumpeting the rock-star economy while all around the evidence says that Rock-Bottom as far as economic expectations is where the Governments books happen to be,
Perhaps it is Treasury that need the ‘restructuring’ sending the gnomes en masse into the real world so as to aquaint them all of ‘real world’ effects of policies that simply deepen and further entrench poverty in the demographic with the least in society…
As far as I can make out Treasury needs to be disbanded – restructuring just won’t cut it. It’s too often wrong and filled with neo-liberal economists that seem to drive that wrongness.
It should be sold to the private sector in order that it operate at the level of efficiency that only corporate discipline and competition can induce 😉
I wonder how many customers they would get for a bunch of parrots repeating Cut wages, cut taxes, cut costs, cut Government, give all our assets away to wealthy foreigners, and borrow for welfare, for Rio Tinto..
I think Labour’s response to “demand an apology” is effectively that English and the government to respond, which they certainly will and they’ll dismiss whatever Labour are saying.
A better response would be to simply point out how bad English and the government are and leave it there. Put the government on the back foot, rather than inviting a reply.
Actually, the better option would have been to point out that the government was purposefully lying. Blinglish used those same figures after he knew they were wrong.
Good points, Lanth and DTB. Reading Parker’s press release again, it is too “gentlemanly”. It should just kick the bastards in the gooneys for bullshitting, not call for an apology for the error.
When National took office they said they would do something about un mufled cars on the roads. It seems as if a whole new generation of little shits who need to make noise to make sure somebody knows who they are has arisen. They seem to know that National wont do anything in case they get on their tweeters and blag the government in election year.
Perhaps the new Police Commissioner will get on to it but I wouldnt hold my breath. It seems as if public order and comfort come a long way down the list of priorities
Let’s see Minister of Inovation and Employment Stephen ‘snakeoil’ Joyce try sliver out of allegations former Pike River CEO Peter Whittle paid his way out of charges over the mining disaster which 29 men tragically died.
So it appears Joyce may have shown moral turpitude in doing a ‘behind closed doors’ deal with Whittle and his legal team.
So instead of doing right by the families of the dead miners, by rushing through the House under urgency a Corporate Manslaughter amendment Bill. It appears highly likely these mongrels done some shady backroom deal.
If proven correct National should be looking for a new campaign manager and Minister of I & E because Joyce needs to resign or be sacked.
Wow, if that’s what they saw fit to release you have to wonder what’s in the rest.
15. The voluntary payment of $3.41 million is economically viable only if Mr Whitall’s continuing preparation costs can be terminated promptly. If this cannot be achieved, the proposed payment will not represent any saving over the cost of proceeding to trial and in that event, whatever the outcome, I believe the families will not receive anything like the amount offered.
I like that the $3.41 million is a “voluntary payment” now, rather than a court-imposed fine.
Great you took the time to read Hayden and I agree totally.
In a democratic society when your dealing with a workplace tragedy on such a scale, the Government of the day has no choice but to be fully transparent to the public. wit
All steps & proceedings.
This backdoor deal is corruption of the highest magnitude and heads need to roll, it’s as simple as that.
and I’m getting really pissed off with the heapatitis foundation.
I have had two arguments with them in the last week over demands for personal information that they dont need.
Their current campaign has nothing to do with the health of any one individual but gathering information for longitudinal studies so they can get more funding.
another score for the banal poltroons running this country.
Also read on stuff today, perhaps those who extoll the virtues of Health Minister Tony Ryall who claims to have raised the number of ‘elective surgeries’ undertake under His term as Minister to ‘rock-star’ proportions can explain just how many more surgeries would have been completed had Ryall managed the Governments stocks of Tamiflu with efficacy,
The loss from the dumping of this ‘lemon’ of a flu remedy,(only 55,000 out of a million+ doses bought by the Government were ever used), are said to be in a range of 20-110 million dollars depending if the Government take up Big Pharma Roche’s(the manufacturer), offer to replace every dose dumped at half the cost of the original purchase price,(which simply proves the Government was at the least negligent and stupid for paying the original price),
Developed for what turned out to be a falsely flagged ‘flu epidemic’ in the form of the H1N1 flu rumors of it’s efficacy have abounded since it’s public release with Roche the manufacturer refusing to release details of trials carried out with the drug pre-release,
There is a school of thought,(tin foil hats everyone),that the ‘epidemic scare’ was a deliberate attempt to have the public of western world societies get stuck into swallowing this unproved drug en masse,
Side issues surrounding this rumor have gone as far as alleging that after a previous failure of the US CDC to identify the correct flu that each winter comes out of Asia infecting millions upon millions in the western world, Roche in particular, having relied upon the CDC to identify the correct flu had manufactured multi-million doses of the flu jab for that particular flu which turned out not to be the predominate flu that season took a huge hit financially, having to dump most the doses of the ready to use flu vaccine jabs for that year,
You will need another layer of tinfoil for the hat to continue reading further,
In what we will call for now a conspiracy theory, it has been rumored quietly in some quarters that a deal was then struck between the CDC and Roche where the ‘guess’ the CDC makes annually on what will be the prominent flu in the western world for the year would be taken out of the equation,
Instead a laboratory formulated flu, H1N1, would be spread first in Asia and then in western countries with Roche already well into the process of manufacturing 100’s of millions of doses of Tamiflu the CDC would be 100% right in it’s yearly prediction on the prevalent flu and Roche along with a well organized media blitz screaming ”Killer Flu Epidemic’ would make a ‘killing’ on supplying the world with Tamiflu,
The above of course is not FACT, it has simply been compiled from rumor and innuendo so until such time as there is an admission by Roche, the US CDC, or, a Government it can only be reported as a fiction,
Of interest in the world of Flu is the current one being manufactured in a number of laboratories, H7N5, said to be a far far more efficient killer by times 20 than the flop H1N1 turned out to be is said to only need a suitable host virus that will accept it as a passenger so as to enable it’s spread from human to human to occur and make it possibly the nastiest piece of chemistry outside of actual chemical weapons to exist on the planet in the year 2014…
It’s a case of the officials trying to be sure that there were sufficient supplies of the flu vaccine and probably being gamed by the manufacturers. When they were told that there would not be supplies for a long period after ordering them the officials must have over-ordered, unwise because they had limited shelf life, but because of the scare of the dangers of the deadly flu. Possibly helped by the media.
In the first three days of its operation – between 24 and 26 July – no fewer than 150,000 Tamiflu packs were handed out.
A growing number of doctors have raised concerns over whether the drug is being handed out too readily, putting many at needless risk of side effects when in the majority of instances, swine flu is a mild illness.
The 293 cases, reported by doctors to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, are only of suspected adverse reactions. However, those that turn out not to have been caused by Tamiflu are likely to be only a fraction of the total.
There were 465 separate reactions reported, referring to 293 individuals.
Around a third involved gastrointestinal problems, such as vomiting and diarrhoea.
But there were also cases of heart and eye problems – together with 46 cases of psychiatric disorders and 48 disorders of the nervous system. There has also been one unexplained death.
Last week England’s top doctor urged parents to continue giving their children Tamiflu if they come down with swine flu.
Sir Liam Donaldson, the chief medical officer, appealed for calm after the release of a study which showed that 53 per cent of children who take it suffer from nausea, nightmares and other reactions.
Sir Liam said: ‘All drugs do have side effects. It is always a case of deciding the balance between benefiting a patient from a treatment and the side effects.’
I’d be quite keen to know how many doses of Tamiflu Sir Liam ended up swallowing himself.
bad 12
I don’t know which number flu. I know that there was concern about possible bad effects and the Tamiflu had to be ordered in advance. So the official/s overordered.
Who decides on this type of purchase? Is there a board of doctors, immune specialists, public health, disease specialists? There is the USAs CDC – Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I guess whatever they said would stand for a lot.
Greywarbler, we are talking H1N1 as far as Tamiflu goes, i can assure you the the numbers of those who died in what was touted as a ‘Pandemic killer flu year’ were lower than the norm of previous winter flu seasons in this country,
You seem to have a faulty memory, there was a concerted media campaign at the time ratcheting up fear based around a deadly pandemic of flu,(H1N1), commenting on another web-site at the time,) and having been given a whisper),i was a lone voice loudly proclaiming this supposed pandemic killer flu as Bullshit,
i havn’t got the year the US CDC got the yearly western world prevalent flu totally wrong in front of me,(it is the CDC who advise big Pharma what flu they will need to make the multi-millions of yearly flu jabs for), but, wrong they got it which resulted in big Pharma producing a useless flu jab that year with the loss of a corresponding amount of the filthy lucre,
The whispers surrounding the sudden change from the ‘flu jab’ to Tamiflu started early on in the piece and were soon followed by the cries of PANIC, this years flu, (H1N1),was a pandemic killer virus and those i was ribbing over conspiracy theory and tinfoil hats then returned the ribbing with a ”now do you see it”
And, see ‘it’ i did, this of course is all fictional, the events described may or may not have happened and we are simply discussing something theoretical…
bad12
You seem to have a faulty registration of what you see. I don’t remember everything about the flu epidemic as it didn’t make as big an impact on me as apparently it did for you.
I merely asked what agency was the important one and referred to CDC. Not because I thought that you were going to be proved wrong about anything. So don’t make an argument when I was after a discussion.
I wish you wouldn’t read into answers things that aren’t there. You have done it before and made critical statements that didn’t relate to the comment.
Greywarbler, Lolz, i only see information contained in my previous comment, admittedly not the information you are seeking,(and it’s obvious that as it isn’t included in that comment i do not have the information you seek),
Please point out where in the previous comment i have attempted to provoke an argument over a discussion,(specific sentence or paragraph will do fine),
i do tho absolutely love a verbal joust having found there are far more laughs to be had in the verbals,(in this case printed versions of such), and far less chance of loosing teeth, blood and other things from previous engagements in minor physical jousts,(the number of losses in my virtually edentate gob suggesting a lack of prowess in the latter),
Seeing as you are such a sensitive being Greywarbler i will have to try in future to be ”NICE”, i fear tho my ability to reach such a high achievement is as lacking as my ability to ensure the protection of my dentures in previous struggles of a physical nature…
“There are 100,000 known fragments of viruses in the human genome, making up over 8% of our DNA. Most of this virus DNA has been hit by so many mutations that it’s nothing but baggage our species carries along from one generation to the next.”
Indeed. Shitting yourself to death or bleeding from your eyes, or being delirious from a fever are “a natural part of being human “. So is being eaten by a lion or catching intestinal worms.
With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.
“With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more”….some are a wee bit more skeptical …eg Tamiflu.
The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything
“The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything”
There are many thousands of different types of viruses we recommend vaccinating against the following viral borne diseases
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Hepatitis
Polio
The reason we advise vaccinating against these specific viruses is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.
Sorry dont believe you that measles , mumps and rubella are “proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality”
….that is bullshit
…most of my generation and ancestors had them without vaccination and without any long term ill- effects.
However a friend’s sister died after getting the polio vaccine when she was a child…and that tragedy caused life long trauma to my friend and his family
And exactly how do you imagine that charming comment helped?
Feel better now?
My sense is that the major health gains came from industrial scale water and waste treatment and huge improvements in food safety. Not to mention great strides in understanding nutrition.
At the same time none of these things came without a cost. The overwhelming rise in chronic degenerative illnesses (cancer is now the leading cause of pre-mature death in the developed world) and obesity is closely associated with these same benefits. Clearly at some level there has been a trade-off.
We might not die from accidents and infectious disease as our great-grandparents did, but neither can we herald a victory over ‘morbidity and mortality’.
Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.
Besides a cursory glance over the history of medical science would advise a great deal more humility.
“Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.”
I have never stated my or indeed medical knowledge in general is omnipotent I merely stated the facts which are the reason we (medical professionals, the MoH, plunker etc) advise vaccinating against specific viruses and bacteria is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.
For anyone to suggest that these diseases don’t cause significant morbidity and mortality is plainly incorrect and ignores very very robust historical data.
“I think you could only make such a comment for one of the following reasons.
you didn’t understand what I said
you are a dunce
you are deliberately trying to be oppositional”
I admire your persistence, but vaccine deniers are just like climate change deiners. They have the phone off the hook. Pre colonisation these guys would have been witch doctors. They experience cognitive disonance when confronted with science. Of course many of them have children, who pay the price.
BTW industrial scale water treatment was v useful in ending diseases such as cholera that were water borne. In did nothing for diseases such as polio or measles.
@ northshoredoc….lol…i am a dunce obviously….but i can still express my opinion ..i do have human rights still in this country
( also one of my doctors was an even bigger dunce…because this doctor was totally opposed to vaccination and almost left medical school because of the medical mishaps /errors seen in hospitals…an extremely successful doctor too i might add)
….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue
…there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living
“there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living”
I think this better:
“there is no doubt that vaccination is good as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of their standard of living”
“….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue”
Yes a brilliant deduction, we only treat people for the cash no one is actually ill and there is no benefit from any medic treatment……. as you appear to be a bit slow that was sarcasm.
Birth defects in their children, infertility, death, shingles in later life, permanent disability, deafness.
I saw several of those personally, if you like “observational evidence”, in those a bit older than me in the generation before MMR and other vaccines.
Just some of the “side effects” of “childhood diseases which we vaccinate against.
That is why we have the vaccination schedule we have.
Sorry, But subjecting a child to several weeks of serious illness and the very definite possibility of serious side effects, because you refuse to vaccinate, is, child abuse. (people who say they do not smack their children have “chicken pox parties FFS)
Not to mention exposing, children around your child, that cannot be vaccinated because they are too young, have compromised immune systems etc, is abusing them as well.
Refusing to vaccinate because of of side effects is akin to refusing to feed your child because someone, somewhere, died of peanut allergy.
I am as sceptical about big pharma and research paid for commercially, as anyone. But vaccination has been working for two centuries now. I think we would know if their was more side effects than medical science describes.
Unlike. Alternative medicine, some of which is sold by “big Pharma”, (cold cures and the like) which sticks to, mostly, self limiting conditions and does not publish the, often, serious side effects.
Lastly. I prefer the scientific method which relies on observable and repeatable evidence, rather than hearsay.
When scientists have got it wrong, it is because they to, have ignored the method, or screwed up. Not because the “scientific method” is wrong.
I prefer to rely on Archimedes and Newton to tell me my ship floats, not magic!
“With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.”
Yet, as marty pointed out the other day, all that tech created different sets of problems too. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t done a cost/benefit analysis, but of course this progress has less to do with what we all want and more to do with who has the power and the money.
Didn’t quite follow that. Are you saying that no-one in a priviliged country like NZ should critique technology in a big picture sense? Never mind marty, how about in this conversation?
Nah. Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.
In other words, the answer is in the impulse and ability to ask the question
Well I wasn’t meaning to offend, but i was being pointed and rhetorical. Too often the proponents of science act like they forget that people are scientists and they come with all their foibles and because of that, the ‘purity’ of science is illusory therefore just because a scientist says it, does not mean it is necessarily so. I suppose for some, wielding a scientist as a sword in a discussion is a show-stopper – but not for me. I enjoy science – not just for the material benefits it affords me and society but also for the beauty and inherent enjoyment of learning some new things and knowledge itself but i’m not putting scientists on a pedestal – I’ll retain my ability and right to think for myself.
I think that the ability to think for oneself is fine – I like to try it myself. But I’m not an immunologist, and I don’t pretend that googling the nutty ends of the interwebs substitutes for an advanced degree in the field.
I heard once that the last person who was reputed to know the sum of all human knowledge was Erasmus. I trust conventional mechanics to fix my scooter, and I trust conventional scientists to develop vaccines. And I trust my bullshit filter to separate those folk from fraudsters, crystal shills and ken fucking ring. And my bullshit filter starts screaming when people link to articles when they’ve only read the abstract, or decide that because they personally don’t know of someone who died of measles then therefore almost nobody has died of measles. And big neon signs go off when “natural” is used as shorthand for “good” and “healthy” (asbestos is natural, ffs). And then I look at the NZ cholera or bubonic plague rates, and I make an independent choice as to who’s probably correct.
‘Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.’
McFlock – That kind of circular thinking is about trying to control the parameters of discussion.
‘Post Rennaisance [sic] advances’ are often in spite of, rather than because of, the prevailing scientific thought of the day. The vilification and alienation experienced by Ignaz Simmelweis in trying to persuade doctors to wash their hands to reduce incidence of childbed fever is a classic example, but there are many others. According to modern (purportedly positivist) science of the 1840s, something unseen by the human eye could not cause death.
Now, there is a university named after him, but in his time, he ended up in an asylum.
Thanks for saying I was trying to control the parameters of discussion. I just thought it was stating the obvious – being in a position to ask whether the eradication of smallpox was worth it relies to a certain extent on having an infant mortality rate in the region of 1/1000 rather than 300/1000.
BTW, the Church took 400 years to say Galileo was correct.
And Galen was viewed as correct for 1200-odd years until science came onto the scene.
So even if it isn’t instantaneous, it still beats the competitors. And Simmelweis was eventually recognised because he had the hard data rather than relying on wishful thinking.
@ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely
…my children have been vaccinated reluctantly and through expediency because i wanted them to go to creche….but this does not mean i dont have enormous respect for my doctor who advised against blanket vaccinations for very young babies ….nor other parents who choose not to vaccinate…and also the scientists and microbiologists who study viruses( some of these people are also anti- blanket vaccination for their children…in fact it was hearing one of these experts on the radio that made me first aware that there was controversy…this was before children)
…also i have a fascination with the nature of viruses….they are endlessly fascinating…they are part of the building blocks of life ….are they conscious in some primitive way?… how do they interact with humans?…what causes a harmless virus in the human body to suddenly turn virulent and attack the symbiotic host individual….are viruses necessary and helpful to the individuals natural immune system?…. do some viruses protect against worse viruses and cancer?…. are viruses an essential part of evolution?(physical and conscious)…….what causes a pandemic like the Spanish flu straight after WW1?…do viruses turn virulent when a population is under severe stress?….almost like a death wish in the host activated?( in which case there may be other ways of treating this stress rather than blanket vaccination of both the stressed population and other unstressed populations)
…quite frankly i dont see this fascination in the rigid pro vaccinate everybody regardless brigade…which makes me think they are authoritarian personalities…more concerned with being right… and not concerned with the science at all
“@ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely”
More lies, all vaccines are registered registered via Medsafe based on substantive data in relation to their immunogenicity and side effect profile.
The rest of you diatribe is so odd I don’t know where to begin…. so I won’t.
“I know someone who knew someone whose child died after being vaccinated”, or “we think” vaccination is bad, or “we think” vaccination is being pushed by those who make money from it, or “we think” vaccination causes ADHD, is NOT, evidence!
Evidence is, like, thousands of children dead or disabled by polio in NZ, pre vaccinations. None afterwards.
KJT is right – what “evidence” do you believe has been ignored?
If the evidence in favour of vaccination was outweighed by the evidence against, we wouldn’t be having an argument. As it is, though, the reverse is demonstrably the case.
weka +100…technology should be critiqued….eg plunder and pollute the earth and water supplies with technology and then try and patch it all up with man made technology….this is the capitalist ‘solution’ and arrogance
…not to say technology has not helped enormously in surgery for example…. but to claim it is the solution to 99% of the worlds problems …when it has made a fair few of them…is ‘male'( i say this because it is generally males, but not always) capitalist ethos grandiosity and lunacy
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint
Rule change reinforces public’s lack of say ( 2′ 46″ )
17:27 The government has announced that the public will not be able have a say on
any applications to explore for oil and gas in New Zealand’s exclusive economic zone.
Listening to Amy Adams talk airily about oil drilling being now non debatable by the public, the EPA being the only body to consider it, reminds me of listening to some of those Christian sects who quote semi-scientific factoids. Also if oil is found then people can then have a voice. And one unlikely to be heard. If there was a whiff of oil on their breath when they do the drilling nothing will stop them – they’ll charge like wounded bulls.
She says that regulators all around the country are making decisions about matters that do not have to be notified and consulted on, like aircraft being airworthy. If these regulators round the country do make decisions about aircraft and something goes wrong then like the Bannerman crash one in Christchurch it killed a number of our precious scientists. (Pilot broke rules in air crash, says coroner – National – NZ Herald News http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid…
May 31, 2006 – The Christchurch coroner has found that the deaths of eight people in … Mr McElrea outlined a series of failings by pilot Michael Bannerman …)
It was a sad loss but was contained in one place though it could start a fire off that would rage far and wide if we had Australian tinder conditions. But with deep sea oil drilling if anything happened, it would have long-standing serious consequences, Stats of 0.2 or .02% chance of problems – interesting how that would be worked out.
There was something on the news recently about the effect of diluted or mixed oil with water and it has bad effects which is not what oil companies want you to believe.
It is extortion that’s what it is. It’s little wonder it feel so much like ground hog day. Bring on the power shop. In the interim we get wounded the crap out of.
TL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above that was recorded yesterday afternoon above between and The Kākā’s climate correspondent : An independent review panel into the emergency response to Cyclone Gabrielle in Hawkes Bayconcluded “that ...
There are now only a few days left to give feedback on the Draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport 2024-34 (see our earlier post this week on GPS submission guides). As we’ve reported, the GPS is a disaster for Local Government, so we were particularly interested to hear ...
Willis has pledged to go ahead with the debt-funded tax cuts, despite growing opposition from her own supporters worried about appearing fiscally irresponsible. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for ...
Open access notables A survey of interventions to actively conserve the frozen North, van Wijngaarden et al., Climatic Change:The frozen elements of the high North are thawing as the region warms much faster than the global mean. The dangers of sea level rise due to melting glacier ice, increased ...
Bryce Edwards writes – New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure. The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On ...
In 2015, then-Prime Minister John Key announced plans for a huge ocean sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands, banning fishing and mining from 15% of Aotearoa's EEZ. It was bold, it was ambitious, and it suggested that National might actually care about the environment. Except they fucked it up: Key failed ...
1. Who has just been given the accolade New Zealander of the Year?a. The Kokakob. The Cook Strait Ferryc. Fair God. Dr Jim Salinger 2. Which of these is an affront to decent society?a. Dame Edna Everageb. Mrs Doubtfire c. Dr. Frank-N-Furterd. Brian 3. Who is Penny Simmonds?a. The aspiring actress in Big ...
New Zealand’s biggest-ever political donations scandal is finally at an end. But what is the conclusion? No one can really be sure.The Court of Appeal released its judgement on Tuesday about the Serious Fraud Office case against the NZ First Foundation. On the face of it, the court found ...
Buzz from the Beehive Waves of rain are set to lash much of the North Island during Easter Weekend as a low-pressure system forms east of New Zealand, according to a weather forecast published in the past day or so. Niwa was warning of a “moisture-laden” long weekend, with rain expected ...
Look around us…Nicola Willis’ promises of balancing the books, of cutting spending without reducing services, and of delivering game changing tax cuts are disappearing before her eyes.Everyday we see stories of violent crime ending in horrific injuries, or worse. The cost of living worsens, whereas the PM claimed renters would ...
TL;DR: My top six news of note on the morning of Thursday, March 28 include:The Government will have to borrow between $10 billion to $15 billion more than previously expected in order to make up for a slowing economy and to pay for $14.9 billion of tax cuts, according to ...
This story by Naveena Sadasivam and Kate Yoder was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. The long-awaited jobs board for the American Climate Corps, promised early in the Biden administration, will open next month, according to details shared exclusively ...
Should landlords be able to deduct the interest on the loans they take out to bankroll their property speculation? The US Senate Budget Committee and Bloomberg News don’t think this is a good idea, for reasons set out below. Regardless, our coalition government has been burning through a ton of ...
Treasury’s first report on the economy since the change of government presents a damning indictment of Labour’s economic management. The problem for National is that it is so damning that logically, coupled with a rapidly slowing economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis should respond to it by postponing or even cancelling ...
Budget tensions are becoming evident within the Coalition Government. Winston Peters made numerous political points in his speech to the NZF annual conference. But the attack on his own government’s fiscal policies raised issues of substance. ‘Today in the Sunday Star Times, journalist and former advisor to the Labour ...
Buzz from the Beehive The media – sure enough – have been binging on Finance Minister Nicola Willis’ release of the Budget Policy Statement and a statement headed Government announces Budget priorities This assures us – or rather, this parrots the Luxon team mantra – that the Budget “will deliver ...
The Ides of March brought me COVID followed by a bereavement. No wonder they tell you to be careful of them.I’m home now and have resumed the interrupted recuperation. Very much looking forward to getting back to regular things. Meanwhile, some thoughts…OneThis new Prime Minister guy just keeps getting more dire. ...
News that the Chinese ATP 40 cyber-hacking unit penetrated parliamentary internet networks in 2021 has renewed concerns about the PRC’s malign intentions in Aotearoa. But is the hack that significant given the length of time that has passed since its … Continue reading → ...
When Parliament passed the Intelligence and security Act in 2017, they assured us all that it was full of safeguards. Any intrusive surveillance of New Zealanders would be subject to a "triple lock", requiring the approval of the Minister and (supposedly independent) Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, as well as post-facto ...
Eric Crampton writes – Richard Harman’s Politik newsletter provides a bit of the context that ought to have been showing up in other media reports on potential reductions in public service staffing. Media has been reporting on staffing cuts on the order of about 7%. Is that ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – It’s becoming increasingly apparent that many perceive free speech to have become the preserve of the politically right wing, the religiously conservative, the libertarian fringe, the anti-trans, the anti-Māori and…. well, just fill in with whatever groups or individuals you don’t like and don’t ...
Don Brash writes – As everybody who is not blind and deaf is aware, there is a huge political preoccupation with climate change at the moment, a widespread (though by no means unanimous) belief that global temperatures are rising mainly as a result of the greenhouse gases created ...
TL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy on Wednesday, March 27 include:Chris Bishop laid out his vision for filling Aotearoa-NZ’s $100 billion infrastructure deficit in a speech yesterday, emphasising user pays and private funding, but failed to say how to achieve bipartisanship on population, public borrowing and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson and former Prime Minister Chris Hipkins have been conveying how unhappy they are with the tax system. Last week in his valedictory speech, Robertson called for the introduction of a wealth or capital gains tax. And this week Hipkins ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Buzz from the Beehive China has loomed large in Beehive considerations over the past 24 hours, largely because of that country’s mischief-making in the cyber espionage department. Two media statements emerged on that subject hard on the heels of the PM baulking at questions put to him on RNZ’s Morning ...
Chris Trotter writes – WHY IS THE NATIONAL PARTY doing so much for landlords, property developers, trucking, and construction companies, and so little for everybody who isn’t already pretty well-off? It’s as if protecting landlords’ investments and building apartments and roads now constitute the whole of National’s ...
Bryce Edwards writes – When she was campaigning to be Minister of Finance last year, Nicola Willis pledged that she would resign from the job if she failed to deliver tax cuts in her first Budget. Now, it’s that pledge, along with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s ...
Robert MacCulloch writes – The Reserve Bank has doubled staff numbers in five years to 510, with personnel costs rising to $80 million in 2023 from $32 million in 2018 – up by a whopping 150%. I guess when you print $50 billion and flood markets with liquidity, ...
The furore. In case you didn’t notice there was a controversy in the weekend involving dolphins in a little town off the South Island. Don’t panic, they haven’t declared independence and resumed whaling, this was simply a sailing event.The problem began when racing was cancelled on the opening day of ...
For 20 years or more, the case for a meaningful capital tax gains has been mulled over and analysed to death, including by the tax working group chaired by Sir Michael Cullen. More than once, the International Monetary Fund has said a CGT would be a good idea for New ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: The Public Health Communications Centre (PHCC) call for urgent preventive action and a risk assessment survey of long covid in this briefing noteLocal scoop: NZ road deaths surpass OECD rates, so why is the govt reversing safety plans? ...
This story was originally published by Grist and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. This story is part of a collaboration with Grist and WABE to demystify the Georgia Public Service Commission, the small but powerful state-elected board that makes critical decisions about everything from raising ...
This is a guest post from Robert McLachlan Global warming is accelerating; 2023 was off the charts. We need to stop burning fossil fuels. In New Zealand, transport accounts for half of all fossil fuels burnt. In the Emissions Reduction Plan, transport emissions fall 41% by 2035. As the ...
Labour productivity has been receding rapidly over the past two years, reversing a post-lockdown rise. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy as at 6:26am on Tuesday, March 26 include:Workers have been treading water in output per hour worked for 12 years, ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 2 include:Today, Parliament resumes sitting at 2pm for the second week of a two-week session. Officials for SIS and GCSB report their annual reviews in public to the Intelligence and Security Select Committee from 5.10pm.Tomorrow, ...
Faced with a barrage of criticism over the promised tax cuts from usually supportive commentators, Finance Minister Nicola Willis yesterday reaffirmed her intention to include them in this year’s Budget. The Government is up against it over the cuts just about every way it turns. Commentators like Fran O’Sullivan, Matthew ...
Here’s my pick of today’s substack posts as of 6:26pm on Monday, March 25: writes via his substack that Market-rate housing will make your city cheaper writes via his substack about the problems talking to double-cab ute (truck) drivers about their vehicles. today about moments of radicalisation in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Just before Christmas, Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivered something that was pitched as a mini-budget and brayed about the decisive action being taken to repair the Government books and support income tax relief in Budget 2024. In a statement headed Fiscal repair job underway. she introduced ...
My sister Belinda asked Dad yesterday what one word would describe Mum best. He said: vivacious.If you only knew her from the photos on the slideshow we've made for today,you might wonder about that, because the camera tended to lie with Mum.If ever she saw a camera pointed at her, she ...
There are two major public consultations closing in the next week, Auckland Council’s Long Term Plan (LTP), and the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS). Closing dates and times: LTP closes Thursday 28 February, at 11.59pm – a minute to midnight! GPS closes Tuesday 2 April, at 12pm noon – note that’s ...
From Kiwiblog’s David Farrar – Bryce Wilkinson writes: Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson’s analysis reveals that since March 2009, New Zealand has spent $158 billion more overseas than it has earned, but its NIIP has only fallen by $32 billion.Statistics New Zealand shows that receipts from overseas reinsurers have ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
The Local Government, Transport and Auckland Minister hasthreatened councils with intervention if they don’t merge water assets to take them off balance sheet, just as the now-repealed Three Waters plan directed. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things of note this morning for Monday, March 25 include:Simeon ...
A listing of 36 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 17, 2024 thru Sat, March 23, 2024. Story of the week Thanks to John Mason having the stamina to sit down to watch "Climate - the Movie" ...
This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana – or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. It’s a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealand’s highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition?The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could deliver her promised income tax cuts. Appointed minister, she ...
Buzz from the Beehive Ministers of the Crown have drawn attention to one sector of the science sector which is unlikely to be subjected to heavy spending cuts, a state-funded broadcaster which is doing nicely, thank you, and a sporting event that had $5.4 million from the public purse puffed ...
Abbott’s Freestyle Libre sensors allow continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). The sensor is applied to the back of the patient’s arm, with a thin filament under the skin measuring glucose levels constantly. But it costs around $100 per sensor and must be replaced once every 14 days. Photo by BSIP/Universal Images ...
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “It is often said that behind every great man is a great woman”. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their “Ladies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxon”. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The cruelty of short-term memory loss is that each time you ask where she is, you get the fresh shock and grief of the news. That was Dad's day yesterday.Comfortingly, it seems to be less so today. Last night he looked crumpled, today he seems more settled. There's a card ...
Photo by Alvan Nee on UnsplashIt’s that new day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when and I co-host our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm. Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news ...
Buzz from the Beehive One minister is talking tough while a colleague – whose ministry had acted tough and drawn a barrage of flak – has shown an official softening. Some ministers are doing what Labour was good at, which is distributing public funds to causes regarded as worthy or ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin, trained as an economic historian, is a retired lecturer in Economics and Statistics. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand. My earlier article – Can ‘Good’ be the Greater Evil? – looked at the issue of how wars should end, and how Good versus Evil ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 AMMA by Saraid de Silva (Moa Press, $38)A stunning debut novel reviewed by Brannavan ...
From Steve Martin to Ricky Stanicky, a pick’n’mix of things worth watching and listening to this long weekend. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. If you’re at a loss for something to occupy yourself with this Easter, don’t panic: The Spinoff’s got ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time – but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “It’s official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “we’re in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
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By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University It’s Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether you’re a boomer, or an ‘80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Senior Lecturer and General Dentist, School of Dentistry, The University of Queensland Casezy idea/Shutterstock How does toothpaste work? What did people use before toothpaste was invented? – Amelia, age 7, Meanjin (Brisbane) Thanks for your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Hallam, Associate professor, UNSW Sydney IM Imagery/Shutterstock Solar SunShot is well named. The Australian government announced today it would plough A$1 billion into bringing back solar manufacturing to Australia, boosting energy security, swapping coal and gas jobs for those ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems there’s one luxury most Australians won’t sacrifice – their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Education’s claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxon’s fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
Kiwis Against Seabed mining today slammed Australian owned would-be seabed miner Trans Tasman Resources (TTR) for abandoning its application to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to mine the seabed of the South Taranaki Bight. The company ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Associate Professor, School of Social Sciences, The University of Western Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Months after COVID vaccines were introduced in 2021, governments and private organisations mandated them for various groups. Health and aged care workers were among the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dzurak, Scientia Professor Andrew Dzurak, CEO and Founder of Diraq, UNSW Sydney Diraq For decades, the pursuit of quantum computing has struggled with the need for extremely low temperatures, mere fractions of a degree above absolute zero (0 Kelvin or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Essential poll, conducted March 20–24 from a sample of 1,150, gave the Coalition a 50–44 lead including undecided, a reversal ...
The Taxpayers’ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the People’s Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Nelson, Honorary Principal Fellow, The University of Melbourne A Byzantine depiction of the Eucharist in Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv.Jacek555/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA A nasty quarrel arose in the 11th century over what kind of bread should be used in holy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Hesp, Professor, Flinders University Patrick Hesp In some parts of Australia, coastal dunes are retreating from the ocean at an alarming rate, as waves carve up the beach and wind blows the sand inland. But coastal communities are largely ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Heemsbergen, Senior Lecturer, Digital, Political, Media, Deakin University With an impressive 60% of the US smartphone market, Apple is undeniably big, but not a clear monopoly. Yet, years of innovation by Apple have effectively given the company its own exclusive ...
Whether you’re facing layoffs or are just an emotional junior staffer, it’s always a good idea to scout out a good crying place before you need it. It’s an incredibly hard time for Wellington. Across the city, thousands of public servants are hearing tough news about redundancies and layoffs. Government ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Miller-Jones, Professor, Curtin University Nuclear explosions on a neutron star feed its jets. Danielle Futselaar and Nathalie Degenaar, Anton Pannekoek Institute, University of Amsterdam, CC BY-SA How fast can a neutron star drive powerful jets into space? The answer, it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daryl Adair, Associate Professor of Sport Management, University of Technology Sydney Earlier this week, independent MP Andrew Wilkie accused the AFL of conducting “off the books” illicit drug testing to identify players using substances of abuse, then inappropriately withdrawing them from matches ...
The Government’s announcement that it will scrap plans for a vast marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands is ‘shameful’ and will make it impossible for Aotearoa New Zealand to meet its international commitments, says the World Wide Fund for Nature ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland Shutterstock The federal government has bowed to pressure from the car industry, announcing it will relax proposed emissions rules for utes and vans and delay enforcement of the new standards ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suzanne Rutland, Professor Emerita, University of Sydney In his latest book, Jewish Life in Medieval Spain, Jonathan Ray focuses on the tumult of the 14th century in Spain – a time of the plague, civil strife and war between the two largest ...
While creating a slate of world-class shows, Whakaata Māori also developed a generation of world-class creatives. Television is an odd word. It mixes the Ancient Greek and Latin languages, and its most literal meaning is “far-off sight”. In the contemporary and living language of te reo Māori, “whakaata” as a ...
Yesterday the UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza. This significant step and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza prompted an urgent debate in the New Zealand Parliament. Leader ...
The Government’s decision to reduce access to continuous glucose monitors (CGM) not only threatens the lives of children with type 1 diabetes and increases the potential for ‘Dead in Bed’ syndrome, but also threatens the health of their parents an ...
Apples are available year-round, but the wide variety on offer involves intensive scientific research – and large-scale commercialisation. What’s beautiful, red, sweet and crunchy? Tony Martin’s favourite kind of apple: Sassy. The CEO of apple and pear breeding organisation Prevar, Martin’s fondness for Sassy represents professional success as well as ...
Family violence specialist service Shine is calling on employers to stop asking for proof of domestic violence in order for employees to access domestic violence leave. The call comes five years after the introduction of the Domestic Violence ...
The Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee is calling for public submissions on the Budget Policy Statement 2024. The Budget Policy Statement 2024 (BPS) sets out the Government's priorities for the 2024 Budget. It explains the approach ...
Brutal government spending cuts that will see the size of the Ministry for Pacific Peoples slashed by 40% will hit Pasifika communities hard, the PSA says. The Ministry has told staff that it is seeking voluntary redundancies, and to redeploy and reassign ...
I live with five people I mostly love, but our different ideas about generosity are starting to really irk me.Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,This is a bit of a random one but here goes. I’m 22 and work an OK job (OK meaning I get paid ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Maria Nicholas, Senior Lecturer in Language and Literacy Education, Deakin University Earlier this month, the New South Wales government announced it would roll out programs for gifted students in every public school in the state. This comes amid concerns gifted school ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Rudge, Law lecturer, University of Sydney Massachusetts General Hospital In a world first, we heard last week that US surgeons had transplanted a kidney from a gene-edited pig into a living human. News reports said the procedure was a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tombs, Howard Paterson Chair of Theology and Public Issues, University of Otago The 5th-century Maskell panel showing Jesus in a loincloth.British Museum, CC BY-NC-SA When Jesus is shown on the cross, he is almost always depicted wearing a loincloth around ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University Shutterstock When you think about a red object, you might picture a red carpet, or the massive ruby in the Queen’s crown. Indeed, Western monarchies and marketing from brands such ...
COMMENTARY:Jewish Voice for Peace The UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza on Monday — and for the first time since the beginning of the Israeli military’s genocide of Palestinians, the United States abstained rather than vetoing it. Security Council resolutions are legally binding, ...
Asia Pacific Report A New Zealand investigative journalist and author says the US spy system hosted by the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) appears to be a controversial intelligence system used in global capture-kill operations. Writing a commentary for RNZ News today, Nicky Hager, author of Secret Power, a 1996 ...
While Nicola Willis wouldn’t give any details on its size, she said a package of tax cuts is definitely still coming in this year’s budget, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming the investigation into the Department of Internal Affairs after it was revealed that the Department’s Chief Executive personally reached out to expedite a DJs passport application. Taxpayers’ Union Campaigns ...
Finance minister Nicola Willis delivers her first budget statement, and unwittingly helps Joel MacManus save his relationship. Nicola Willis strode into the Beehive Theatrette. Around me, on the green foldout seats, were the country’s top business and political journalists. They were all here to see her announce the Budget Policy ...
Twenty years ago today, Māori Television launched after much controversy. Jamie Tahana looks back on its survival and impact across two decades. Chad Chambers stepped onto the stage, the brim of his cap casting a shadow across his face. His smile beamed as bright as his white freezing works gumboots, ...
Tauranga, Rotorua, Wellsford, Onehunga, Westhaven marina – Gavin Strawhan walks the meanish streets of New Zealand in his entertaining debut novel The Call, almost sure to roar into the number 1 position on the Nielsen bestseller chart, its front cover bearing a rave from somebody: “A really good and genuinely ...
On a Thursday in February, at Wellington’s Conservation House, the Conservation Authority, a statutory body advising the eponymous department and minister, Tama Potaka, opened its 195th meeting. Under consideration that afternoon was an agenda item written by Tim Bamford, chief advisor in the Department of Conservation’s biodiversity, heritage and visitors ...
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Paul Buchanan very interesting on the government’s involvement in 5 eyes and consequences for NZ.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/237394/revelations-of-nz-spying-to-come-analyst
Several questions arise.
Is Waihopai and/or other New Zealand-based hardware essential to the five eyes network?
The consequences of withdrawal? Pros and cons.
The consequences of the status quo? Pros and cons.
A couple of days ago ‘Open Mike’ kicked off with the first 3 comments pointedly opposing the Labour plan to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67,(i really should stop living in the past i know),
This struck a bit of a chord and in a couple of hours of comments i managed to count to 15 the number of commenters who oppose the plan to raise the age of entitlement,(that’s not an exact total as i only had the use of two hands worth of digits and thumbs,plus the use of a foot where i did notice that a thumb isn’t apparent and had to use a big toe),
What’s it worth out there in the wider electorate in terms of votes this raising of the age of entitlement for super???, my guess,and, this includes the belief that this one policy flogged repeatedly by Phill Goff during the 2011 election campaign cost Labour then at least 2% of the vote, is that as it was last time round their is a deep vein of opposition among what could/should be the core Labour Party vote to this policy, in numbers probably 2-5% of that vote,
CV and others have pointed out that raising the age of entitlement isn’t Labour Party policy based upon the will of the shop floor, for some unfathomable reason the decision on this was left to Labour’s MP’s, and for an even more unfathomable reason those MP’s have chosen to cling to such a vote losing hangover of the Neo-Liberal economic Ism,
David Parker, Labour’s finance spokesman, to me a shadowy figure who says little that is publicly broadcast can hardly be trusted as anything other than a ‘Rogernome’ after the bizarre ”There is no Alternative” comment over this very issue a few weeks back, and, ACT’s backing of the same policy this week does not cast Parker in any better light,(in my opinion),
There are Alternatives, to raising the age of superannuation, and, as i have alluded to above, this issue unless handled delicately may just cost Labour the 2014 election, trotting out the hated Ruth Richardson ”There is no Alternative” is hardly delicate and there are other options,
(1),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement for Superannuation as it is and raise taxation to pay for the bulge in costs as the Baby Boomer generation reaches retirement age,
(2),The status quo, leave the age of entitlement as it is, BUT,means test the pension against income from wages and assets,
(3), The Labour policy, raise the age of entitlement to 67, there is no visible promise to not revisit this in the future with another imperative,(TINA),to again raise the entitlement age to 70 which in some overseas jurisdictions is occurring now, AND,once the Baby Boomer bulge has been successfully negotiated there is again no visible promise to lower the age of entitlement back to 65 which makes me even more distrustful of the proponents of raising the super age to 67,
Is this one policy of Labour’s one that could be the difference of being the Government or the Opposition after the 2014 election, my view You Bet, and, Labour need back away from this policy NOW, but, NOW with a plan,
i would propose that Labour loudly and with the maximum amount of publicity back away from the current policy of raising the age of entitlement to superannuation and propose to the electorate a Referendum on this very issue at the 2017 election,
Such a referendum would have to include options 2 and 3 above, and, from the comments here in ‘open mike’ a couple of days ago,(i know i have to move on from the past), my view is option 2 above would be the popular view,
If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30’s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….
“If David Cunliffe intends the Labour Party to poll in the high 30′s at the 2014 election, and win the Treasury Benches i would be quite blunt in telling Him the current superannuation policy is the one policy that will stop Him doing so….”
Do it. Tell him. This policy is a headache. It’s alarming that they even raised it, but are now sticking to it.
i may in my comment above look like i might be being a little ‘shifty’ when i talk of the Baby Boomer generation as the imperative to raise the age of superannuation entitlement to 67, as the current ”narrative” has moved on from the Baby Boomers,
Using ‘averages’ the current claim surrounding the need to raise the age for super entitlement is that ”we are all living longer”,
i would suggest to everyone that such is simply another Neo-Liberal LIE, ‘we’ in the blinkered view of the Neo-Lib’s specifically does not include the 300–500,000 in the bottom end of the income brackets more likely as not to be providing the heavy labour to the economy in order to win their daily bread,
myself, hell if i actually hit 65 i am going to announce a modern miracle, demand to be declared a Saint, and, also demand the right to levitate,(i’m working on the latter)…
Hi bad12. Yeah, that whole “we are living longer” is a fairly fragile argument. It’s has to be considered how well we live and how there may be a smaller percentage, i.e., those able to afford good healthcare, good housing, good food and have low stress jobs that are the ones “living longer”.
I’m sure if it were to be analysed as it probably has some where, that those living longer in the future will only be those who have access to the above good things in life. That big chunk of lower income worker’s you are referring to above currently have decreasing access to healthcare, good housing and stable jobs, as a result of govt policy over the last thirty years, plus theres the group of those that do manual labour whose bodies will wear out faster (as you point out).
I wonder if that “bell curve” in the stats will begin to decline as time goes on and as govt policy starts impacting negatively on longevity.
PS. Good luck with the Sainthood.
I’m interested in seeing the levitation myself. Saints are usually a bit boring. I don’t think bad12 is cut out for sainthood, he should hang out in a more interesting ‘hood.
Greywarbler, how would you know the extent of being intersting or not as far as the particular hood i hang out in is,
Not cut out for Sainthood,hell born into a low socio-economic Porirua family with one parent an alcoholic and the other addicted to pharmacy products, putting aside the ‘innoncence’ question for the moment, i have done the jail tour from Invercargill to Pare Max, and, been binned a number of times so the men in white coats can check out what makes me tick, and that was just the first 22 years,
There’s gotta be more than a couple of brownie points in a life lived less than ordinary and the way i see it all i have to do is find this God deity that everyone bangs on about and run a Slippery tax switch line or two past Her/Him to fix that ‘innocence’ issue, and, it’s a shoe in…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhjNm20XbXw
And again I say, lo to you, bad12 you are too good for sainthood. And I think I guessed pretty well that the particular hood you hang out in is far from boring and saintly. From what you say it confirms my guess. But you could make a great movie about your life, sort of like that Peter Fonda one I think called Easy Rider.
Have you had anything to do with Jim Moriarty?
Greywarbler, nah i was doing my penal penance way befor Jim got involved, ah i think you have been slightly tainted in your views of the saints by the Biblical versions,
The drunken, womanizing, brawling Saints of old Ireland would seem to be more my ‘style’…
Those old Catholics certainly seemed to enjoy the temporal in a more straightforward way than some of the sanctimonious ones that have shamed their calling of recent times.
Lolz, old old Ireland befor the Isms of religion turned the heads of the population away from the magic…
I believe it will. I understand that it’s already happening in the US whose policies we’ve blindly followed for the last 30 years.
It’s time we knew more about David Parker. Briefly – as per Wikpedia.
Background
From South. Went to Uni Otago studying law and business. Co-founded Dunedin Community Law Centre.
Was litigation partner in law firm. Then was in business in agri-buiotech field inluding Blis Technologies where was manager.
In parliament 2002 winning victory in the Otago seat.
Lost in 2005 to Jacqui Dean but returned on List.
2008 stood for Waitaki but Jacqui Dean won by over 11,000 votes, but returned as on List.
Was in 2005 Attorney-General and Minister of Energy & Minister of Transport &
Minister…Climate Change
Resigned over legal query then reappointed
Regained Energy and Climate Change Land only in 2006.
2008 On Labour’s loss, he became Opp spokesperson Conservation ACC and Shadow Attorney-General.
2010 Opp Leader Phil Goff appointed Parker Spokesperson for Ec Development (from Shane Jones) – Conservation went to Chris Carter.
Parker RAN for leadership in 2011 but withdrew to support David Shearer.
Now Labour sp/person for Finance (late 2011) and shadow Attorney-G (Feb 2013).
At 17 September 2013 named Deputy Leader of Labour Party with Finance Portfolio.
Where has he shown a particular interest in finance? Where has he indicated a particular interest in micro-economics or in national building? It seems as if the mantle has been bestowed by Phil Goff. And he has not been a shining success either in the electorate or good enough background to be appointed to the Finance position.
Our problem is one of working hard and then metaphorically going out and losing our putea in the casino or pissing it away? Exactly the behaviour of a majority of hard working men of old colonial times. Time for an innovative change not the same old, same old. (And not prohibition either, not that sort of radical.)
Raising the old age pension age to 67 and beyond is merely delaying exercising the little grey cells. Where is Poirot when you need him?
Excellent comment Bad12.
This is a policy which ACT supports. That should ring alarm bells automatically.
Let your local Labour MP know that this is BAD policy. The Labour party should not be about austerity and cutting entitlements to the workers of this country.
I think the problem is that in the next 10 years the age will lift to 67 or higher because there is no alternative. The Treasury knows there is no alternative – same applies to the financial markets, the OECD. So Labour might was well do it and get the credit from the markets and the OECD – that could be a real boost. If it stays at 65 we will look like an outlier internationally.
An increase will also enable fiscal consolidation, higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.
I also think it would be a vote winner for Labour. I hope that David Parker prevails in the debate. He is s one of Labour’s more sensible front benchers.
Too bad it will send thousands of elderly into poverty and crowd younger people out of the job market…
drylands there is always an alternative.We have a choice
This is the favoured alternative from ACT, Labour and people like Ruth Richardson and Roger Douglas.
Look to the Greens for another alternative.
A truly progressive tax system is a real alternative
“A truly progressive tax system is a real alternative”
The tax system is already highly progressive.
“..The tax system is already highly progressive..”
not really..
..it goes up a slight slope..
..and then kind of peters out..
..a very low top rate compared to other countries..
..no capital gains tax..(unlike most other countries..)
..and the ability to claim back all of their gst..(unlike the poor..who pay every last cent of it..)
..makes life for the rich in new zealand..
..a sweet sweet ride..
..’progressive’..?..
..nah..!
phillip ure..
Mr Ure, despite your protestations New Zealand does not need more taxes. We need less, and a more effective distribution of the tax intake.
@ danske..
..no..we need a higher top-rate..a capital gains tax..
..(and a tax-free band at the bottom..)
..a financial transaction tax on inter-bank dealings..
..and a focus on getting back that $5 billion in criminally-avoided tax by the (mainly) tory elites/corporates..each and every year..
..and then ‘a more effective distribution of the tax intake’..
..will be easy/in order..
..phillip ure..
“Mr Ure, despite your protestations New Zealand does not need more taxes. We need less, and a more effective distribution of the tax intake.”
Danske, why?
Danske, how daft are you?
How can you during a debate about how unaffordable superannuation is, claim we do not need more taxes?
You are the daft one, I’m afraid. The age needs to go up. No ifs or buts.
Danske. It is opportunity cost isnt it.
Old people are a drain on society. There is going to be more of them making them a bigger drain. That is a fact we all agree on.
The ACT/Parker solution is we simply cut entitlements to those workers who have contibuted thoughout their working lives so that rich pricks can buy another investment property further distorting the property market.
That is the guts of it.
This nation can afford to look after its elderly workers. There is no need for austerity.
+111
This raising of the retirement age is nothing more than giving more of our wealth to the already rich.
Danske
No argument, no evidence; just bald assertion.
Daft is too complimentary a description of your debating style.
Danske Mobler – NZ already has some of the lowest taxes in the world.
Deborah Russells excellent comments to ColonialViper on her guest post highlighted how the effective tax rate for high income earnings is actually low, comparatively.
The more you earn, the less taxes you pay.
Personally, I’d introduce the following
Sale Tax on every property. CGT is unworkable and able to be manipulated. A sale tax on every property whether it be commercial, land or residential will raise far more income than any other tax.
Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income. By contrast, CGT is only expected to bring in $4 billion at optimistic best.
A sale tax on all property would bring in well over $5 billion a year, and is unable to be avoided as it is paid at the point of purchase.
Death Duty
You die with millions in assets, your estate gets taxed 10% irrespective of whether its in trust or not.
Income tax
Leave the existing progressive system, maybe bump up the thresholds so 17.5% applies to the first $60,000, 25% up to $150,000, then 35% over $150,000 to $499,999 then
$500,000 subject to a tax rate of 70% on every dollar earned over $500,000 which increases to a rate of 90% on every dollar earned over $750,000.
Yes, James. If up to you, we would happily become a second France (where absurd high taxes are slowly killing the country).
Ignoring the fact that Western countries were at their most successful and prosperous when tax rates were at their highest.
Much more successful countries than ours have Government share in the economy over 60%.
Plenty of room to move.
@ kjt..
1..
..during the boom-times of eisenhower/post-war..
..top tax rates in america were 95%…
..phillip ure..
In France due to the very high taxation the second largest electoral constituency now is London.
Good way of getting rid of all the greedy parasites, then.
Based on REINZ sales data total residential property sales of $38.04billion, a sales tax of just 10% would bring in $3,804,000,000. That $3 billion of government income.
I don’t think you have thought this through.
For example, I have to leave my home next year. My house is worth exactly what I paid for it 2 years ago (and continue to pay through my mortgage), and I’m on a fixed low income. How could this possibly be fair?
I would be made to pay $20,000 despite there being no profit or income from my home. And it is the same percentage as someone selling their home after twenty years, worth 10 times what they paid for it. So if someone bought my home twenty years ago for a tenth of what it is now worth, they would pay exactly the same tax as I would.
Then there is the 4% real estate agency fees on top of this. There would be no capital gain to offset any of this.
Simpler doesn’t necessarily mean better or fairer.
I’m with you on death duties being reinstated and more progressive taxation, though.
Why would you be the one paying the tax as the seller? I liken it to the fact that the seller doesn’t pay GST, the purchaser does. Perhaps calling it a “sale tax” is a misnomer. Maybe a Property Tax would be more appropriate. I do not advocate for a seller paying such a tax, only a purchaser would.
I can already see the moaning minnies trying to make out that making buyers pay a sales tax would effectively shut them out of the market – not really. They wouldn’t be any more shut out than now.
Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.
Combine that with an inability for any type of residential landlord to treat renting a residential property out as a business and the associated tax deductions that go with that, will combine to deflate the property market slightly and have more availability of properties for first home buyers thus depressing the upward trajectory of property prices.
Then one step further, and allow for home owners to claim deductions on a few things such as interest payments, maintenance etc, like they do in the states.
Allowing home owners to claim for such things (there would have to be a $ cap on the total amount that could be claimed either during the life of the mortgage, or in a given year) means more secure and stable communities populated by home owners, rather than transient renters, which may be transient due to the landlord, or other factors.
Also, it’s likely that if property speculators have to pay 10% tax on every property in Auckland they buy, to rent out as a slum, while being an absentee landlord will be much less attractive to them.
Why?
Why on earth do you expect a capital gain. If you have added to the value of your property it will surely be reflected in the sale price. But disregarding improvements there is absolutely no reason for you to expect some sort of windfall just because you have owned the property for two years.
How about your car. If its two years since you purchased it do you expect a capital gain on its resale?
Of course not.
Our problem it seems to me is that all land should be owned by the state. You would then purchase the house and pay a rental to the state for use of the land.
On sale of the house you would get exactly what the house is worth after depreciation. As you house gets older it would eventually be worth very little and at some stage a new house would be built and sold but the land would still be owned by the state. The land never changes so one would not expect it to get very expensive. Its just dirt.
There are variations on this idea that would include not being able to pass it on to descendants.
Who said anything about wanting a capital gain? I don’t.
I was commenting on the fact that the sales tax, as proposed, seemed unfair because it wasn’t related to the size of any profit made on a property.
I don’t want profit, but I have to leave. So, I don’t think it is fair that, in the absence of profit, I should be hit with a $20,000 bill just because I have to move house (at whichever end I end up having to pay it).
This would be a huge amount of money to find in my circumstances. If the money taken was part of a fairer, more extensive, and highly graduated change in taxation aimed at a fairer distribution of resources all round, and massively improved public services, I would feel differently.
Also, this isn’t part of a wider discussion about private property itself and especially the commodification of land. That’s a whole other conversation. I’m saying this idea would not lead to greater fairness in the actual circumstances in which we happen to find ourselves.
The short version is – this would just be another flat-tax like GST which would impact disproportionately on those with the least and increase the gap between the rich and poor.
No to taxes. Taxes down, further down, further down. So you say. You and all the other believers in fairies.
You are such a sad fool.
higher labour market participation for those in the 60+ bracket, and avoide tax increases.
I can just see their thinking. A generation ago they got the women slaving for them in their factories, offices and shops – now they want to beat another decade of our lives out of us all.
SSLands, your support of David Parker simply adds weight to my view that He is a closet ‘Rogernome’ only to willing to shove unpopular policies down the throats of the people whether they like it or not,
Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets against your ability to collect a full entitlement of Superannuation,
Can you please stop LYING, is not Germany a member of the OECD, that particular country has in fact kept it’s age of entitlement at 65 while bringing in another entitlement of age 63,(with qualifications),
You were linked to this fact a couple of days ago and having to continually rebut your fucking lies becomes tiresome and is one of the reasons the majority of readers and conmenters here think you are nothing but a Tr–lling shit-head…
And anyone who shuffles out the ‘there is no alternative’ zombie also demonstrates a complete failure of imagination.
Germany is high performing economy with high savings rates.
“Any fiscal imperative there might be in the future surrounding superannuation entitlement is easily addressed by simply means testing the likes of YOU on income and income from assets”
No. Remember I am a lowly bean counter at a firm of tax lawyers. We don’t get paid much. Or has your mate veutoviper, who has been stalking me on LinkedIn been talking to you?
Anyway there are so few rich people in New Zealand that means testing wouldn’t save much. It also creates another army of state servants and incentives problems.
I really encourage David parker to keep this policy. He is a good guy. Hoefully he is planning some party events to promote His policy. he will be the Finance Minister in 7 months so he deserves some respect.
lowly bean counter at a firm of tax lawyers
Yeah – really no imagination.
SSLands, you are of course talking from a position of the bovine defecating as usual, most of the population of Auckland will be asset millionaires by the time they retire, most of these asset millionaires will have healthy Kiwisaver retirement incomes,and, at least 200,000 of them will have rental income properties,
That’s just the middle class,
Above that middle class there is in the upper middle class a sizable demographic, those with the coin able to purchase stolen assets with sizable shareholding along with the profitable rental property portfolios and the healthy Kiwisaver accounts,
The sad fact is that those with the most have provided the least in actual sweat in terms of physical labour, and, the toll on physical human structures such physical toil extracts on those that do actually physically sweat for their daily bread means that in terms of longevity it will be those in the bottom third of the economy who will have little chance of reaching an age of entitlement for super of 67 or 70,
My opinion of your employment has been changed in recent days by a little news item which stated that those involved in 5 eyes, the spying upon of their own citizens, have been educated in the insertion of human operatives into political blogs in an effort to disrupt them,
Considering your spew of ill considered comments you would seem a perfect candidate to be one such employee, my view of the current site of your wee office cubilcle is now that it is just as likely to be located in a little office building located on Wellingtons Pipitea street as it is to be found up on the Terrace…
You are simply spouting a whole lot of envy and wanting to get your hands on other peoples money. It is really unbecoming. Any politician who spouted what you spout would be dead as dead.
Look dream all you want – there is seriously no alternative to lifting the super age, and it will happen. The forces will be overwhelming. If John key steps down in 2016, the National Government in 2017-2020 will do it.
I repeat – this is a vote winner for Labour. It will be immensely popular. i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age.
And dude stop being paranoid. The GCSB are not going to bother with The Standard.
Repeatedly parroting the same crap does not make it true.
Even though it can make fools repeat it.
Saying that it is inevtiable that the eligibility age will go up to 67 is not crap. Ok the probability is not 100%. But close enough. How is that crap?
Slands
It’s crap because the next Labour/Green government will research and budget the feasibility of a Universal Basic Income. Then in 2017 this will be instituted in place of the current rundown social security system.
So there is indeed an alternative, just not one you are capable of understanding. Though I do believe you when you say; ” i have not met anyone who opposes lifting the eligibility age”, as NZ Super must be a bit of a non-issue over there.
What’s your opinion of the Iwi n Aus protest movement?
This was an impressive protest action, very kiwiesque.
The GCSB doesn’t need to bother with blogs like The Standard because as we now know they have trained people to go out and sow havoc across the internet. The only question now is how they arrange payment to all those loyal RWNJ’s
Maybe its an area we could look at taxing as unearned income?
SSLands, you are advocating the perfect reason for Labour to back away from raising the age of entitlement,
A National Government without Slippery the current Prime Minister will do it, and not long after be booted out of office for having done so,
Seems a good idea to me…
Germany has a much higher percentage of 65+ aged households living in poverty than NZ. In fact according to this OECD report NZ has the lowest percentage of its aged population in poverty
Yes. Universal super is a remarkably cheap way of masking sure no elderly live in poverty.
Much cheaper than processing it through ticket clipping financial institutions.
Someone complained about the cost of churn, through the Government. 1 to 2%. How much of GDP do private banks take, again?
Introduction of a UBI would make the retirement age irrelevant.
+1
I am against means testing for the same reasons I am against income testing.
It is inefficient, potentially unfair, and administratively costly, for little gain.
One alternative, I would advocate others as well. Inheritance taxes are effective, universal and capture intergenerational accumulation of unearned wealth.
Progressive taxation of income and wealth avoids the need to means/income test super.
It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory. Save, and we will cut your pension.
Saving for retirement as an alternative to universal super is simply, yet another privatisation. We all know how well those work for ordinary people.
“It is funny that most of those who want to raise the super age and/or means test also advocate saving for retirement. A bit contradictory.”
I don’t agree. For most people, national super will only provide a fraction of what is needed to live on post-retirement. So you need private retirement income to supplement national super.
Incomprehension as usual Srylands?
It is not an incentive to save if your super is going to be reduced by an amount proportional to your savings. Means tested.
Those who advocate “saving” for super should be mindful of what has happened to so many peoples super savings in the rest of the world. Lost in the GFC.
Having a PAYG universal super, sufficient to live on, is cheaper overall than re-circulating through a financial system which is ever more likely to fail, and have to be bailed by taxpayers, anyway. Again!
“Lost in the GFC”
Stop making shit up.
That is bullshit. Looking at the returns on my managed funds, they dived for three years after 2008 but have now more than recovered. The NZX based funds are doing great. What are you on about?
Look the reality is that most rational 20 and 30 somethings today should assume they get noting from the Gummnit in retirement. Look after yourself. That means investing in growth funds. Fuck I hope you don’t give financial advice to your kids. (Hey just wait for your government super – it will be sweet as.) yeah.
The government super is a nice little sweetner in retirement but it should be seen as part of a much bigger package.
The NZX based funds are doing great.
The funds are asymmetrically distorted due to the impact of the large injection of repatriated earthquake reinsurance and insurance reinvestment (that has been parked there whilst they dribble out settlements)
The large cashflows to NZ that DO NOT appear in the RBNZ external transfers,or as singularitys in the treasury models ,have an interesting effect they have forced jump like statistics in GDP etc.
SSLands, it must be time for a party, you have for once in your miserable commenting existence on the Standard made part of a comment which to all the readers once it is isolated will make perfect sense,
Your comment RE the 20 and 30 somethings planning for NO superannuation when they get to retirement age is a gem,
Admit it SSLands, the whole Neo-Liberal dogma surrounding Superannuation has been a vicious lie all along, the REAL PLAN, all along has been for Superannuation to be scrapped full stop,
This obviously in terms of politics has to be accomplished by incremental degrees moving the age of entitelment further and further out in terms of age,
After all the first and most effected by these incremental dis-entitlements will be the poor, the low waged, and the low paid manual workers wont they SSLands, but then you have scant concern for those with low incomes or a shorter life-span of the ability to provide their labour to the economy and/or provide sufficiently for their retirement, these people just do not exist in your bubble do they,
Thanks for the info SSLands, it just proves that every move made around the age of entitlement and the introduction of individual retirement savings soon to be made compulsory has been to pander to the Neo-Liberal Ism…
The real plan of Srylands mob is to remove all social payments.
The only good thing about it is that those as thick and antisocial as Srylands, will be the first to suffer.
They do not realise that in their ideal society, they would be the ones living in the cardboard box on the street.
“That is bullshit. ”
Tell that to all the Icelanders, Cypriots, yanks, poms and Irish whose retirement savings disappeared in the GFC.
Not to mention all the Kiwis who lost their shirts in 1987.
Haven’t you heard of the law of gravity. What goes up must come down. I knew a lot of people in the 80’s who thought it no longer applied, also!
Raising the retirement age is and was suicide for the Labour party, don’t they get it a great majority of there voters/members work there guts out and are broken down wrecks by 65.
Also this policy discriminates against a large section of our society/voters Maori and Pacific Islanders who statistically don’t live as long as others in this country, how about we lower the retirement age, that party would get my vote.
They need to drop this stupid policy and take finance off Parker. Why can’t they see it? I get the feeling instead that they’ll see ACT agreeing as a sign that it’s fiscally sensible. Bloody hell, where did the cat drag half of them in from?
Quite agree bad12, it is a really dumb idea. I dont trust David Parker to do what is right for the Labour Party. I still remember the scowl on his face when David Cunliffe was elected. If he doesnt believe in the principles of David Cunliffe’s Labour Party then he needs to get out.
Raising the super age is now officially an Act idea:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/act-party/news/article.cfm?o_id=359&objectid=11209825
“Unlike the ancient Inuit (who may well have rescinded their noble policy decades ago) we have not built a legend around older people “going out in the snow” to take the burden off their kin folk.”
Above words seem to be attributed to Whyte, but may be O’Sullivan’s own.
Cunliffe should get McCarten to have a word with Parker now!
I disagree. I consider Parker a voice of moderation among some hot-heads that surround Mr Cunliffe (add to that list the newly appointed Mr McCarten).
Parker is here to say and he should stick to his guns on how to promote business.
Another refugee from the Neo-liberal funny farm.
Belladonna, even on a purely political level it’s a Dumb policy, it probably cost Labour 2% of the vote in 2011 and even if Labour had of squeaked past National/ACT,(it was only a win of 60,000 odd votes), in that election they could not have had a chance of implementing such a policy as they would have had to rely upon both the Green Party and NZFirst to form a Government,
My view is Labour can win the 2014 election simply by backing away from the policy and promising a referendum on the issue at the 2017 election…
What have the GP said on the matter?
Weka
I’m not aware of any specific Green Party statements in regard to the Parker/ Prebble proposal of raising the super age. However section 4 of the Income Support Policy states:
“The Green Party will:
Maintain universal New Zealand Superannuation for all New Zealanders 65 years and older, adjusted annually in accordance with movement in the Consumer Price Index…”
https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/income-support-policy
But this may become less important if section 1 is implemented:
“The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. “
I agree put it to the people no vote for over 65 year olds. Be a very close call. The reasoning behind the rise to 67 was two fold. We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly. And too many people need to keepworking because of our poor savings record.
“We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly.”
An oft repeated meme, with no supporting evidence.
The alternative is to leave the elderly to starve. Is that what you want?
We supported the elderly, in their childhood, when there were much less workers, (most of their Mums did not work), and suddenly we cannot, after how much of an increase in GDP?
Even in 2125 we still can, if we start with a modest increase in the top tax rates now, to build sustainable capability. May get as “bad” as equal to Australian levels (45% top rate plus State taxes) . And stopped sending all that money out of the country in “so called” retirement savings, to be lost in the next GFC..
I’m on record opposing the rise. I was highly annoyed our LEC carried it. I wanted it scrapped altogether. The wiser choice would have been means tested.
“We will struggle to pay without increasing the population significantly. And too many people need to keepworking because of our poor savings record.”
There are other solutions to both those things. Were they discussed within Labour? Or was the age rise simply presented as TINA?
Weka, its interesting how the ”narrative” around the imperative to rasing the age of entitlement is a constantly changing menu of points which do not stand up to scrutiny,
First Baby Boomers is the imperative,next so as to keep the Neo-Liberal agenda moving toward it’s program of incremental gains in having a society without the provision of a Government superannuation scheme the LIE of ”we are all living longer” is trotted forth,
3rd in line for the throne of spurious reasons to destroy Government superannuation is ”we are a nation of poor savers”,
Since when has this ‘nation of poor savers’ been true, since forever would seem to be the only real answer to that question, but, as that nation of poor savers we have managed to provide for superannuation for how long,
The bullshit the Neo-libs will trot out in defence of scrapping superannuation would seem to be never ending…
Poor savers is another one of those myths which has no basis in fact.
In fact we are rather good savers, overall, and, as a proportion of disposable incomes.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10620031
And from a right wing think tank.
http://nzinitiative.org.nz/site/nzbr/files/1231%20Savings%20Working%20Group%20Serves%20Up%20Strange%20Report.pdf
“A 2007 New Zealand Institute of Economic Research study concluded: “A review of the existing measures of household saving in New Zealand shows little evidence of a saving problem. Indeed the data that the
proponents of saving policies have used poorly reflect the true household saving performance. Other data sources indicate that household saving is not only positive but has been rising strongly in recent years.”
Disposable incomes for most of us are rather low, because of New Zealand’s extremely high cost of living in relation to incomes.
Saving has reduced, as you would expect as real incomes, for most, have fallen.
KJT, i stand corrected…
I think it is generally a good idea to get people working longer and reduce the burden of a pay as you go retirement income scheme. That enables spending on other priorities, such as roads. Critically it also enables tax cuts.
So my argument is really simple – it is akin to welfare spending and less is better.
SSLands, what’s this???, an attempt to resile from your outing of the TRUE neo-Liberal agenda surrounding Government funded Superannuation in the comment you made at 1.42pm???,
Your little hint at tax cuts is just another piece of the picture isn’t it, lets grind the Government superannuation scheme into the dust, not because it is unaffordable per se,
Simply so you and your ilk can then call for more tax cuts….
“less is better.”
Well, yes. The less people that need their income topped up by welfare the better.
That means jobs, adequate wages and a functioning economy.
All things that do not happen unless there is both a large and functioning supportive State sector along with an efficient and competitive private sector. Which does not mean domination by a few large offshore owned duopolies, protected by, bought, legislation, favourable to them..
Impossible without taxes.
Though I notice Libertarians are happy to charge , me, taxes to provide regulation, police and army to protect, “their” wealth. (Once they have successfully stolen it from the rest of us).
Note how the numbers needing welfare go up, when the idealogical brain farts beloved by Srylands and co are enacted.
Skinny it’s all about keeping the Hampsters on the wheels as long as they can, clearly somebody has to pay for Key and Co’s lavish lifestyle, so lets convince the suckers they have to work longer for less money then when they do retire feed them peanuts.
If we’re recycling old topics, this one from last night is a foetid peach [hat-tip to Andy (the other one) comment 25 on 26/02 Open Mike]:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210373
It’s not just the disinclination to accept the long established societal condemnation of incestuous relationships (he’s the leader of Act, so won’t believe in the existence of such a thing as society). It’s also his comparison of the risks in pregnancy over the age of 35 with; “the increased risk of congenital disorders in children from incestuous relationships”:
” The probability of having some problem with the children is greater when the mother is over the age of 35 but I’ve never heard anyone suggest that anyone over the age of 35 shouldn’t be allowed to have sex.”
This, mind you, is Whyte’s idea of a “virtuous” position. I’d hate to read the statements of his that he considers sleazy and manipulative. But no doubt there’ll be ample opportunity in coming months.
‘you gotta be careful where you pokin’ – you don’t know what you’ll find’
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhd8AHbp2c4
Gordon Campbell –
http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/02/27/gordon-campbell-on-the-snowden-revelations-and-acts-position-on-incest/
Then there is persuading the elderly to go out in the snow so wee Jamie can pay 1% less tax.
Sorry. A bit harsh on ACT. It is also Labour party policy.
Next. Compulsory euthanasia at 65, unless you have 2 million dollars, can burger flip for 12 hours a day, or wear nappies to work in Walmart.
If this isn’t ACT party policy, how do we explain the Epsom cuppa?
Were they both consenting adults?
“..Face it – everyone’s addicted to something..”
http://whoar.co.nz/2014/face-it-everyones-addicted-to-something/
(excerpt..)
“..(ed:..yes..it has always amused/bemused me how cigarette-smoking/piss-swilling/animal-flesh/fat-addicts..
..seem to feel free to sneer at/hold in contempt..
..junkies..
..and to urge they continue to be chased by police/jailed..as the best treatment for that addiction..”
(cont..)
phillip ure..
But Phillip, you consider those that cannot kick the ciggies to be ”piss weak” despite the evidence presented to you that the nicotine addiction is just as strong as the Heroin one,
So, why wouldn’t people in turn consider you to be a ‘filthy sniveling fucking Junky’ only using marijuana as a crutch because your limited income does not allow you that which you wake up every morning craving for like nothing else on this Earth…
the ignorances run both deep and wide..
..in that one/’prominent’-green..
..eh..?
..phillip ure..
Talking of ignorance Phillip, wasn’t that very ignorance the means by which you attempted to sidestep the links provided to you showing the relative addictive strengths Nicotine V heroin…
your flailings to try to justify yr weakness/inability to kick..(what for me was the easiest addiction to end..)
..and yr (self-justifying) clinging to that ‘nicotine is more addictive than heroin’ pile of bullshit..
..is becoming ever more desperate/transparent..
..eh..?
..best quit while you are behind..
..eh..?
..(get that ‘quit’-pun..?..geddit..?..)
(and..you don’t take defeat gracefully..do you..?..
..always been that way..?..)
..phillip ure..
Yawn Phillis, ever the ego game player, declares ‘itself’ the winner yet again…
best you just go and have another ciggie..eh..?
..calm yr rattled nerves..and all that..
..try to regroup..
..eh..?..
..(maybe a quick shot of yr favourite poison..?..from that bottle you keep stashed away for ‘special-occaisons’..?
..it is nearly noon..after all..
..and that would ‘help’..eh..?
..and only about an hour ’till yr next pig-fat shot..eh..?)
..phillip ure..
Yawn, refer to my comment at 9.49am, your way to pathetic to even consider wasting the pixels on a further answer…
phillip ure, I hope you received my answer to your question on Open Mike yesterday re DTB.
Pasupial. Yes! It was Emerald Storm Troopers! Other points noted.
@ rosie..
..yes..i saw that..
..but aren’t we all (sorta) on the same side..?
..couldn’t/shouldn’t we put all of these (however much justified) internicine-feuds/grudges to one side..
..and focus on winning this election/throwing this bunch of tory-bastards out..?
..our media is so rightwing slanted..
..those few other voices should be supported..
..perceived warts and all..
..to my mind..
..phillip ure..
“but aren’t we all (sorta) on the same side..?
..couldn’t/shouldn’t we put all of these (however much justified) internicine-feuds/grudges to one side..
..and focus on winning this election/throwing this bunch of tory-bastards out..?”
Yes! Yes we are phillip. And that is exactly what I said to Martyn last year. It was extremely unhelpful of him to be giving air to his grudges, crazy imagined ones at that. I suggested to him that we need to work collectively if we’re to win, instead of him alienating those who are by nature, his comrades. It went on like that for while……………he remained petulant and after I spoke of the importance of good will he said I could take my goodwill and shove it. (words to that effect)
Charming.
Like I said, I’m not welcome there and I get insulted so there’s only so much I can take in the name of “working together”. I’m also more interested in being away from the keyboard and working alongside like mindeds, IRL, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. It also feel a lot safer meeting with people and discussing ideas and strategy. No pesky electronic eyes and ears.
Agree Rosie, but it does not mean marching in lockstep like the N..zi, correction, National party.
The more ideas the better.
But. No point in throwing them out, just to end up with the NACT light neo-libs in the Labour caucus.
Another rat has jumped from the sinking ship.
Ryall is gone.
How many more from the worst government in New Zealand’s history will jump before defeat this year.
Nice, i have a nice little surprise coming Tony’s way via the Opposition in a couple of month’s, He can then take this as my parting gift to the Minister of ‘Finding Novel Ways of Denying People Healthcare’,…
Yeah .
Percy needs more time to organise his tie collection.
The Elna was getting too much of a beating and there are only so many different coloured ginham tableclosths, stripe tie and polka dot combinations. Retirement means he can revert to the Bob Charles knit shirt (with action gusset of course) – or perhaps even a lovely beige safari suit.
Phil – made your porridge this morning, so, so yummy. Thanks.
@ belladonna..chrs..
..i have a brew on now..
..banana/blueberries/passion-fruit will be the underlay..today..
..(i’m salivating in anticipation..)
..phillip ure..
Longtime National MP Tony Ryall is set to join a growing list (11) of National MP’s leaving parliament. There is word from insiders that they are worried about Bill English’s balancing of the books.
I guess it’s like a ponzi scheme, the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered. It must be concerning to Joyce who is trying to hold things together that another high ranking MP calls it time.
“the true exstent of how badly the books really are will only be discovered after National are thrown out of office, and how the books have been cooked is discovered”
No. In New Zealand that would be impossible. The Public Finance Act requires the Treasury to publish a PREFU to provide an indication of the most up-to-date economic and fiscal position that an incoming government will face.
Yes yes I am well aware of that Shrilland. As you would also know there are many ways to massage the numbers. The social welfare figures are a classic example of fudging things. Both National & Labour have partaken in that twisted little number.
Now while your slivering about the place, you asked a question ( regarding engaging voters) of which I’ve answered. Now I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice, now I will be fair by adding the Taxpayer Union to the charity list, that’s dependent on them qualifying like some other Unions I have on the list.
How say you? Ya know for the feel good factor of getting the non engaged to vote and take part in the democratic process and all.
“ow I’d like you to consider sponsoring 10 enrollee’s at $10 per head to a charity of their choice.”
Done. When it is set up, contact me with the relevant bank account details.
“Done. When is it setup, contact me with the relevant bank account details”
Oh jolly good. Well I have the troops on the ground rearing to go, however like anything there is a process, all be it slightly bloated. Choosing which charities, critiquing them ( you might need to advise on the Taxpayer Union) then there needs to be an offer of intent letter that Executive Committees need to accept. And of course included is a recommendation that any donations received are ‘somehow’ forwarded as political donations to the relevant party’s. In the case of Taxpayers Union I would assume that would be ACT.
Thanks kindly Sir I will be in touch.
Pity that the numbers are not required to be constantly available.
Nationl’s being in the poo would be rather obvious at the moment.
And. They have run out of paper-boys, to tax.
That’s exactly what needs to happen and in real time as well. There may have been a reason for these things to be made available at preset times back in the days of manual working but in this age of computers and the internet there is no longer any excuse to keep the figures from the people.
Regarding the PREFU it is allright as long as you leave out the unfunded $4 billion ACC account.
And buy a bankrupt railway.
What, the “unfunded” ACC account, that shortly afterward was billions in surplus?
FIFY
Paving the way for Judith Collins to take the health portfolio and pick up where Upton and Shipley left off post 2014…..Job well done for Ryall, who was instructed by Key to ensure that health remains off the radar to ensure there was no repeat of the 1990-1993 fiascos that almost saw National lose the 93 election.
Should call in the SFO and let them sort out the mess.
Would that we see (urgently !) a corresponding list of Labour retirees. National appear to have now removed the bulk of their “dead” wood and can look forward to a rejuvenated caucus.
Labour still have the ABC brigade; Mallard,Goff et al.
LOL. National still have Brownlee, Smith, Tolley, Bennet, Parata etc.
In fact their talent pool seems to consist of John Key.
Not to mention their obvious lack of intelligent Women
Note that Bill English is going to be a List only MP (I think?) If so does that tell us that he can quietly slip away after they loose the Election this year. I think it is now 9 to leave National.
Sigh, if only it was ALL of them, Prostetnic Vogon Joyce included – and on the other side, Rogernomes like Goff, King, Mumblefuck (who considers politics beneath him anyway), Mallard, Beltway Grant, Curran (quick, give her a nice pot and make sure she gets watered regularly), Hipkins (red braces, some coke and a trip to 1987 for him)…
on 9toNoon with Kathryn Ryan – Laurie May poet punchy on social issues
10:05 Feature: Laurie May – Alice Springs slam poet
Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet from Alice Springs who challenges societal norms and perspectives on poverty through her spoken-word poetry. She is known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and identity-politics themes. Laurie is in New Zealand to perform in Hamilton and Wellington.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
Laurie May at Poetry in Motion
Heaven Pizza, Wellington
Wed 5 Mar 7:00pm
Links:
Laurie May’s Facebook page
Hamilton Slamdown Poetry – Facebook page
Poetry in Motion Wellington – Facebook page
Watch Laurie’s poem Facts about Aboriginal deaths in custody – YouTube
From eventfinda –
(Wed 26 February, so done see Wellington. )Hamilton Slamdown Poetry’s inaugural feature poet event stars visiting Australian slam poet Laurie May. The show also includes local poets and an open mic for anyone wanting to ‘give it a go’. Koha collected will go towards funding entrants in the NZ National Poetry Slam 2014.
From Alice Springs, Anglo-Indigenous Australian Laurie May is a resistance poet challenging societal norms and perspectives on poverty. Known for her clever, often humorous, wordplay and pointed politics of identity themes, Laurie May recently performed for five days at the Woodford Folk Festival, a long-running major creative New Year event in Queensland.
In her first year as a performance poet, she represented Central Australia in the finals of the Australian Poetry Slam in Sydney in 2012, finishing in the top five. After that, she established a monthly event called The Dirty Word in Alice Springs, while acting as poet-in-residence at Page 27 Cafe, where she set up The Poet-Tree for people to hang their poems. She recently hosted and promoted US poet Bob Holman’s visit to Alice Springs, an event called Haiku Death Match and an upcoming show by UK raw poet Paul Case aka Captain of The Rant.
Laurie May and Hamilton Slamdown Poetry are also visiting Fraser High School the following day.
Poetry Slam events are fast becoming popular in New Zealand and Australia. Spoken word poets “slam” two-minute poems in competition judged by audience members and popular acclaim. It’s loud. It’s bold. It’s clever. Young (mostly), sharp, diverse and smart.
Heard the interview, she seems to have a great sense of humour (stink!).
My all time favorite Oz song* comes from just down the road from Alice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQgIk3fV8zI
*Knocked the Gobetweens and the Triffids into 2nd and 3rd spots.
Te Reo Putake
I liked that. Catching the bream. Couldn’t see them, no picture, but the voices and the great backing were okay on their own.
The song was a field recording by Sydney artist Morganics. Just the kids, a didge and a tape recorder. Not sure how life has turned out for the mob, but here’s an article from back in the day:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/13/1065917345045.html
I see Tony Ryall is another rat deseerting the sinking ship.
I only remember him demeaning the dignity of parliament by trying to hand out minties in a cheap stunt.
Cheap tony ryall.
ans that SOE sale proved a to be a big epic fail, innit?
Fact follows fiction with Peter Williams.
Story just breaking that, surprise, surprise, Tony Whittall may have bought his way out of a murder conviction, which follows to a conclusion that we badly need a corruption-free justice system.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/west-coast/9768728/Claim-of-deal-on-Whittall-charges
Yes i heard that little piece of news with open disgust in my mind, if this is true the relevant Ministers should be quizzed on this in the House,
The two tier system of Justice which operates in this country is pretty much obvious, the brown kids seen not to have a future are simply thrown into the jail system as fodder for the machine while those who offend from the ‘better’ suburbs are seen to be constantly described as having their futures blighted by even at times the entering of a conviction against their names,
i am not advocating that such kids with the brighter future are tossed to the wolves in the form of the prison system, no-one should be sitting in a jail cell unless they have physically harmed someone or another living creature…
I think it’s probably a three tier system. There’s the rich that just don’t get charged, the middle class who will get charged but get light sentences and then there’s everyone else (mostly brown) who get thrown to the wolves.
Good point Draco, you are probably on the money with that one…
Hand him over to the families of the West Coast miners in the dead of night and let them decide what justice should be meted out. Guaranteed ‘corruption free justice system’ right there.
And by the way, I reckon that many would be astounded at the level of humanity extended him in such a scenario. We can police ourselves and we can deliver justice to ourselves. Just a shame that we don’t.
Chris Trotter once wrote (regarding a particular, hugely dodgy land deal with Holyoake) that New Zealand isn’t really a country without corruption, we’re just good at calling corruption something else.
That agrees with my experiences. The other difference from countries that are recognised as corrupt is that the entry price in Aotearoa is much higher. In some places, it’s reasonably democratic and $10 will get you off a speeding ticket. Here, you probably need somewhere around a million to get in on the act and get a law changed, or a favourable decision.
This is interesting. Child poverty, and the income inequality gap have both just now been confirmed as having been under-reported by Treasury.
“Finance Minister Bill English has relied heavily on the MSD reports to point to a lack of evidence that inequality is increasing in New Zealand. He was not immediately available for comment.
Treasury blamed the mistakes on human error and breakdowns in process in its relationship with Statistics New Zealand.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9771016/Children-in-poverty-vastly-underestimated
So, what I want to know is – Do they or don’t they believe in magic? Sometimes it seems that they do, but now it seems they are keen to be denying its efficacy…
This no effect in the “real world” suggests that no matter how bad poverty gets there will be no change of policies to alleviate the problem. Good to know.
Ooh:
How many more times can they lie to us?
As much as people distrust politicians – it is very obvious this current pack of rats are a level above anything we have seen before with the bs
With the MSM’s help and cheer-leading? Quite often.
Hmm. The original article has just been updated with those comments. So maybe that’s why Ryall’s retirement announcement has happened today? Quick, everyone – look over here at what Tony’s doing, don’t look at this…
That’s a strong possibility – no real expiry date on the resignation story, so just keep it in the hip pocket until needed..
Thursday, so no Key in the House; too late for an oral question to the Minister of Finance? Presumably there’s a deadline, but I couldn’t find it in 30 seconds so gave up.
Last sitting day was February 20, next sitting day is March 4
D’oh!
I think the deadline is 10am or thereabouts. However any MP can call on the Speaker for an urgent debate on a matter of recent occurrence for which there is Ministerial responsibility.
But yeah, not today.
The Herald’s version:
“The number of Kiwi kids in poverty jumped by 60,000 in the recent global recession – twice as much as previously reported.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210883
Hmm … that Herald article appeared on the front page “latest news” list of headlines that have been there for an hour or so, but this one was pulled off the front page within minutes.
At least the Opposition parties and no doubt the left blogs are on to it already:
https://www.labour.org.nz/media/nats-billion-dollar-bungle-hid-20000-kids-poverty
https://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/government-error-hides-true-size-child-poverty
Also picked up by Yahoo News and Scoop.
We would have to ask what exactly is the use of Treasury, everything they report to any Government seems to turn out to be wrong, are the staff of Treasury simply a cadre pushing the barrow of the discredited Neo-Liberal ism using their position to downplay the negative social statistics while trumpeting the rock-star economy while all around the evidence says that Rock-Bottom as far as economic expectations is where the Governments books happen to be,
Perhaps it is Treasury that need the ‘restructuring’ sending the gnomes en masse into the real world so as to aquaint them all of ‘real world’ effects of policies that simply deepen and further entrench poverty in the demographic with the least in society…
Where else would we get luminaries (ask srylands, he’ll tell you) such as Bill English and Aaron Gilmore?
Lolz Hayden, my point exactly…
As far as I can make out Treasury needs to be disbanded – restructuring just won’t cut it. It’s too often wrong and filled with neo-liberal economists that seem to drive that wrongness.
It should be sold to the private sector in order that it operate at the level of efficiency that only corporate discipline and competition can induce 😉
I wonder how many customers they would get for a bunch of parrots repeating Cut wages, cut taxes, cut costs, cut Government, give all our assets away to wealthy foreigners, and borrow for welfare, for Rio Tinto..
They would get precisely their appropriate market share according to the utility their service offers.
I think Labour’s response to “demand an apology” is effectively that English and the government to respond, which they certainly will and they’ll dismiss whatever Labour are saying.
A better response would be to simply point out how bad English and the government are and leave it there. Put the government on the back foot, rather than inviting a reply.
Actually, the better option would have been to point out that the government was purposefully lying. Blinglish used those same figures after he knew they were wrong.
Good points, Lanth and DTB. Reading Parker’s press release again, it is too “gentlemanly”. It should just kick the bastards in the gooneys for bullshitting, not call for an apology for the error.
Yip.
When National took office they said they would do something about un mufled cars on the roads. It seems as if a whole new generation of little shits who need to make noise to make sure somebody knows who they are has arisen. They seem to know that National wont do anything in case they get on their tweeters and blag the government in election year.
Perhaps the new Police Commissioner will get on to it but I wouldnt hold my breath. It seems as if public order and comfort come a long way down the list of priorities
Let’s see Minister of Inovation and Employment Stephen ‘snakeoil’ Joyce try sliver out of allegations former Pike River CEO Peter Whittle paid his way out of charges over the mining disaster which 29 men tragically died.
So it appears Joyce may have shown moral turpitude in doing a ‘behind closed doors’ deal with Whittle and his legal team.
So instead of doing right by the families of the dead miners, by rushing through the House under urgency a Corporate Manslaughter amendment Bill. It appears highly likely these mongrels done some shady backroom deal.
If proven correct National should be looking for a new campaign manager and Minister of I & E because Joyce needs to resign or be sacked.
Here is further details regarding Peter *Whittall
http://livenews.co.nz/2014/02/27/documents-show-whittall-offered-cash-in-dodgy-deal/
Released under the official information act;
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2kvtqvtr3eswv7l/PikeRiverletter-StuartGrieve.pdf?token_hash=AAFBiKVTgidzy4zOyeFahJ5-9UvX-O_mokd88_Tr_aRC1g
Wow, if that’s what they saw fit to release you have to wonder what’s in the rest.
I like that the $3.41 million is a “voluntary payment” now, rather than a court-imposed fine.
Great you took the time to read Hayden and I agree totally.
In a democratic society when your dealing with a workplace tragedy on such a scale, the Government of the day has no choice but to be fully transparent to the public. wit
All steps & proceedings.
This backdoor deal is corruption of the highest magnitude and heads need to roll, it’s as simple as that.
Joyce is keepinghis head down.
He invited dotcom here and doesn’t want anyone to find out.
and I’m getting really pissed off with the heapatitis foundation.
I have had two arguments with them in the last week over demands for personal information that they dont need.
Their current campaign has nothing to do with the health of any one individual but gathering information for longitudinal studies so they can get more funding.
another score for the banal poltroons running this country.
Also read on stuff today, perhaps those who extoll the virtues of Health Minister Tony Ryall who claims to have raised the number of ‘elective surgeries’ undertake under His term as Minister to ‘rock-star’ proportions can explain just how many more surgeries would have been completed had Ryall managed the Governments stocks of Tamiflu with efficacy,
The loss from the dumping of this ‘lemon’ of a flu remedy,(only 55,000 out of a million+ doses bought by the Government were ever used), are said to be in a range of 20-110 million dollars depending if the Government take up Big Pharma Roche’s(the manufacturer), offer to replace every dose dumped at half the cost of the original purchase price,(which simply proves the Government was at the least negligent and stupid for paying the original price),
Developed for what turned out to be a falsely flagged ‘flu epidemic’ in the form of the H1N1 flu rumors of it’s efficacy have abounded since it’s public release with Roche the manufacturer refusing to release details of trials carried out with the drug pre-release,
There is a school of thought,(tin foil hats everyone),that the ‘epidemic scare’ was a deliberate attempt to have the public of western world societies get stuck into swallowing this unproved drug en masse,
Side issues surrounding this rumor have gone as far as alleging that after a previous failure of the US CDC to identify the correct flu that each winter comes out of Asia infecting millions upon millions in the western world, Roche in particular, having relied upon the CDC to identify the correct flu had manufactured multi-million doses of the flu jab for that particular flu which turned out not to be the predominate flu that season took a huge hit financially, having to dump most the doses of the ready to use flu vaccine jabs for that year,
You will need another layer of tinfoil for the hat to continue reading further,
In what we will call for now a conspiracy theory, it has been rumored quietly in some quarters that a deal was then struck between the CDC and Roche where the ‘guess’ the CDC makes annually on what will be the prominent flu in the western world for the year would be taken out of the equation,
Instead a laboratory formulated flu, H1N1, would be spread first in Asia and then in western countries with Roche already well into the process of manufacturing 100’s of millions of doses of Tamiflu the CDC would be 100% right in it’s yearly prediction on the prevalent flu and Roche along with a well organized media blitz screaming ”Killer Flu Epidemic’ would make a ‘killing’ on supplying the world with Tamiflu,
The above of course is not FACT, it has simply been compiled from rumor and innuendo so until such time as there is an admission by Roche, the US CDC, or, a Government it can only be reported as a fiction,
Of interest in the world of Flu is the current one being manufactured in a number of laboratories, H7N5, said to be a far far more efficient killer by times 20 than the flop H1N1 turned out to be is said to only need a suitable host virus that will accept it as a passenger so as to enable it’s spread from human to human to occur and make it possibly the nastiest piece of chemistry outside of actual chemical weapons to exist on the planet in the year 2014…
It’s a case of the officials trying to be sure that there were sufficient supplies of the flu vaccine and probably being gamed by the manufacturers. When they were told that there would not be supplies for a long period after ordering them the officials must have over-ordered, unwise because they had limited shelf life, but because of the scare of the dangers of the deadly flu. Possibly helped by the media.
Greywarbler, what deadly flu are you talking about,H1N1???, the kill rate for H1N1 was the lowest in years…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203886/Fears-rise-effects-Tamiflu-cases-adverse-reactions-double-week.html
I’d be quite keen to know how many doses of Tamiflu Sir Liam ended up swallowing himself.
interesting…didnt Rumsfeld and Roche have something to do with Tamiflu?
http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/
bad 12
I don’t know which number flu. I know that there was concern about possible bad effects and the Tamiflu had to be ordered in advance. So the official/s overordered.
Who decides on this type of purchase? Is there a board of doctors, immune specialists, public health, disease specialists? There is the USAs CDC – Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I guess whatever they said would stand for a lot.
Greywarbler, we are talking H1N1 as far as Tamiflu goes, i can assure you the the numbers of those who died in what was touted as a ‘Pandemic killer flu year’ were lower than the norm of previous winter flu seasons in this country,
You seem to have a faulty memory, there was a concerted media campaign at the time ratcheting up fear based around a deadly pandemic of flu,(H1N1), commenting on another web-site at the time,) and having been given a whisper),i was a lone voice loudly proclaiming this supposed pandemic killer flu as Bullshit,
i havn’t got the year the US CDC got the yearly western world prevalent flu totally wrong in front of me,(it is the CDC who advise big Pharma what flu they will need to make the multi-millions of yearly flu jabs for), but, wrong they got it which resulted in big Pharma producing a useless flu jab that year with the loss of a corresponding amount of the filthy lucre,
The whispers surrounding the sudden change from the ‘flu jab’ to Tamiflu started early on in the piece and were soon followed by the cries of PANIC, this years flu, (H1N1),was a pandemic killer virus and those i was ribbing over conspiracy theory and tinfoil hats then returned the ribbing with a ”now do you see it”
And, see ‘it’ i did, this of course is all fictional, the events described may or may not have happened and we are simply discussing something theoretical…
bad12
You seem to have a faulty registration of what you see. I don’t remember everything about the flu epidemic as it didn’t make as big an impact on me as apparently it did for you.
I merely asked what agency was the important one and referred to CDC. Not because I thought that you were going to be proved wrong about anything. So don’t make an argument when I was after a discussion.
I wish you wouldn’t read into answers things that aren’t there. You have done it before and made critical statements that didn’t relate to the comment.
Greywarbler, Lolz, i only see information contained in my previous comment, admittedly not the information you are seeking,(and it’s obvious that as it isn’t included in that comment i do not have the information you seek),
Please point out where in the previous comment i have attempted to provoke an argument over a discussion,(specific sentence or paragraph will do fine),
i do tho absolutely love a verbal joust having found there are far more laughs to be had in the verbals,(in this case printed versions of such), and far less chance of loosing teeth, blood and other things from previous engagements in minor physical jousts,(the number of losses in my virtually edentate gob suggesting a lack of prowess in the latter),
Seeing as you are such a sensitive being Greywarbler i will have to try in future to be ”NICE”, i fear tho my ability to reach such a high achievement is as lacking as my ability to ensure the protection of my dentures in previous struggles of a physical nature…
Oh bad12 it’s boring being polite, as someone said yesterday, so don’t worry ignore the above.
Thanks for bringing this up bad12. Big Pharma only need a scare like this every 5 years to put the cream on top of their already huge profits.
CV, wink, it is only a fictional story for obvious reasons, wink, cheers…
bad12 …you are a very, very naughty boy (smile)
seems like we are made up of viruses
“There are 100,000 known fragments of viruses in the human genome, making up over 8% of our DNA. Most of this virus DNA has been hit by so many mutations that it’s nothing but baggage our species carries along from one generation to the next.”
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2012/02/14/mammals-made-by-viruses/#.Uw5XgOOSxF8
…and risks for vaccine production
http://www.ecs.umass.edu/~mettu/ece597m/papers/Leung/sdarticle-2.pdf
(PS….. calling in all crazies with big injections….run for the hills….)
No, we’re not “made up of viruses”.
Some evolutionary developments were the result of viral infections.
You know the thing about evolution? The ones who don’t reproduce are the ones who didn’t survive.
@ McFlock…OK made BY viruses ( splitting hairs imo)…Viruses are a natural part of being human and part of human evolution
‘Mammals Made by Viruses’
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2012/02/14/mammals-made-by-viruses/#.Uw5XgOOSxF8
‘Hunting Fossil Viruses in Human DNA’
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12paleo.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Risks linked to endogenous retroviruses for vaccine production:
A general overview
http://www.ecs.umass.edu/~mettu/ece597m/papers/Leung/sdarticle-2.pdf
Indeed. Shitting yourself to death or bleeding from your eyes, or being delirious from a fever are “a natural part of being human “. So is being eaten by a lion or catching intestinal worms.
With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.
sounds like you are talking about Ebola
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease
…not the poor wee measles virus
“With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more”….some are a wee bit more skeptical …eg Tamiflu.
The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything
( I am off to dinner)
I thought we’d left measles behind when you started talking about fragments of virul DNA in the human genome. Or was that just measles?
Because we vaccinate against the ones that kill people. You know, that bit about evolution that involves the deaths of the least-suited.
Meh, everything can kill, even the many kinds of bacteria that you have on your skin right now, so you better get real busy vaccinating yourself.
Most likely ones first.
meanwhile…
CV +100
btw, ebola isn’t the only haemorrhagic fever, just the one they plugged in hollywood for a while in the 1990s.
“The point is that viruses are not necessarily all bad …some have important functions for humans that we dont know about yet …..and we should be careful about vaccinating for everything”
There are many thousands of different types of viruses we recommend vaccinating against the following viral borne diseases
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Hepatitis
Polio
The reason we advise vaccinating against these specific viruses is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.
Sorry dont believe you that measles , mumps and rubella are “proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality”
….that is bullshit
…most of my generation and ancestors had them without vaccination and without any long term ill- effects.
However a friend’s sister died after getting the polio vaccine when she was a child…and that tragedy caused life long trauma to my friend and his family
“Sorry dont believe you that measles , mumps and rubella are “proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality”
I think you could only make such a comment for one of the following reasons.
you didn’t understand what I said
you are a dunce
you are deliberately trying to be oppositional
.. or perhaps a combination of all three.
And exactly how do you imagine that charming comment helped?
Feel better now?
My sense is that the major health gains came from industrial scale water and waste treatment and huge improvements in food safety. Not to mention great strides in understanding nutrition.
At the same time none of these things came without a cost. The overwhelming rise in chronic degenerative illnesses (cancer is now the leading cause of pre-mature death in the developed world) and obesity is closely associated with these same benefits. Clearly at some level there has been a trade-off.
We might not die from accidents and infectious disease as our great-grandparents did, but neither can we herald a victory over ‘morbidity and mortality’.
Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.
Besides a cursory glance over the history of medical science would advise a great deal more humility.
“Feel better now?”
Yes and you ?
“Vaccinations are of undoubted value – but us ordinary people strongly suspect that it is not an unalloyed value. Rant all you will against our obstinacy, you cannot change our experiences. For while we will respect your medical knowledge as far is it goes, you cannot tell us your knowledge is omnipotent.”
I have never stated my or indeed medical knowledge in general is omnipotent I merely stated the facts which are the reason we (medical professionals, the MoH, plunker etc) advise vaccinating against specific viruses and bacteria is that they are proven to cause significant morbidity and mortality.
For anyone to suggest that these diseases don’t cause significant morbidity and mortality is plainly incorrect and ignores very very robust historical data.
“I think you could only make such a comment for one of the following reasons.
you didn’t understand what I said
you are a dunce
you are deliberately trying to be oppositional”
I admire your persistence, but vaccine deniers are just like climate change deiners. They have the phone off the hook. Pre colonisation these guys would have been witch doctors. They experience cognitive disonance when confronted with science. Of course many of them have children, who pay the price.
BTW industrial scale water treatment was v useful in ending diseases such as cholera that were water borne. In did nothing for diseases such as polio or measles.
@ northshoredoc….lol…i am a dunce obviously….but i can still express my opinion ..i do have human rights still in this country
( also one of my doctors was an even bigger dunce…because this doctor was totally opposed to vaccination and almost left medical school because of the medical mishaps /errors seen in hospitals…an extremely successful doctor too i might add)
….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue
…there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living
“there is no doubt that vaccination is good in many instances …but not in all instances….and definitely not as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of peoples wishes , their needs and their standard of living”
I think this better:
“there is no doubt that vaccination is good as blanket coverage for all populations regardless of their standard of living”
“….also i am not paid for vaccinations…you are ….bias????…( conscious or unconscious)…..how much have you been paid over the years i wonder?!…this imo is really the nub of the issue”
Yes a brilliant deduction, we only treat people for the cash no one is actually ill and there is no benefit from any medic treatment……. as you appear to be a bit slow that was sarcasm.
Sounds like aura-realignment therapy to me 🙂
Birth defects in their children, infertility, death, shingles in later life, permanent disability, deafness.
I saw several of those personally, if you like “observational evidence”, in those a bit older than me in the generation before MMR and other vaccines.
Just some of the “side effects” of “childhood diseases which we vaccinate against.
That is why we have the vaccination schedule we have.
Sorry, But subjecting a child to several weeks of serious illness and the very definite possibility of serious side effects, because you refuse to vaccinate, is, child abuse. (people who say they do not smack their children have “chicken pox parties FFS)
Not to mention exposing, children around your child, that cannot be vaccinated because they are too young, have compromised immune systems etc, is abusing them as well.
Refusing to vaccinate because of of side effects is akin to refusing to feed your child because someone, somewhere, died of peanut allergy.
I am as sceptical about big pharma and research paid for commercially, as anyone. But vaccination has been working for two centuries now. I think we would know if their was more side effects than medical science describes.
Unlike. Alternative medicine, some of which is sold by “big Pharma”, (cold cures and the like) which sticks to, mostly, self limiting conditions and does not publish the, often, serious side effects.
Lastly. I prefer the scientific method which relies on observable and repeatable evidence, rather than hearsay.
When scientists have got it wrong, it is because they to, have ignored the method, or screwed up. Not because the “scientific method” is wrong.
I prefer to rely on Archimedes and Newton to tell me my ship floats, not magic!
“With the glorious wonders of technology, we don’t have to deal with 99% of that shit any more.”
Yet, as marty pointed out the other day, all that tech created different sets of problems too. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t done a cost/benefit analysis, but of course this progress has less to do with what we all want and more to do with who has the power and the money.
Yeah. I wasn’t particularly impressed by that comment.
It’s the sort of question only one with easy access to clean drinking water could ask.
Didn’t quite follow that. Are you saying that no-one in a priviliged country like NZ should critique technology in a big picture sense? Never mind marty, how about in this conversation?
Nah. Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.
In other words, the answer is in the impulse and ability to ask the question
Well I wasn’t meaning to offend, but i was being pointed and rhetorical. Too often the proponents of science act like they forget that people are scientists and they come with all their foibles and because of that, the ‘purity’ of science is illusory therefore just because a scientist says it, does not mean it is necessarily so. I suppose for some, wielding a scientist as a sword in a discussion is a show-stopper – but not for me. I enjoy science – not just for the material benefits it affords me and society but also for the beauty and inherent enjoyment of learning some new things and knowledge itself but i’m not putting scientists on a pedestal – I’ll retain my ability and right to think for myself.
no offence taken.
I think that the ability to think for oneself is fine – I like to try it myself. But I’m not an immunologist, and I don’t pretend that googling the nutty ends of the interwebs substitutes for an advanced degree in the field.
I heard once that the last person who was reputed to know the sum of all human knowledge was Erasmus. I trust conventional mechanics to fix my scooter, and I trust conventional scientists to develop vaccines. And I trust my bullshit filter to separate those folk from fraudsters, crystal shills and ken fucking ring. And my bullshit filter starts screaming when people link to articles when they’ve only read the abstract, or decide that because they personally don’t know of someone who died of measles then therefore almost nobody has died of measles. And big neon signs go off when “natural” is used as shorthand for “good” and “healthy” (asbestos is natural, ffs). And then I look at the NZ cholera or bubonic plague rates, and I make an independent choice as to who’s probably correct.
‘Just saying that being in a position to do a CBA on the benefits of the scientific method (i.e. post-Rennaisance advances) is only an option because of those advances.’
McFlock – That kind of circular thinking is about trying to control the parameters of discussion.
‘Post Rennaisance [sic] advances’ are often in spite of, rather than because of, the prevailing scientific thought of the day. The vilification and alienation experienced by Ignaz Simmelweis in trying to persuade doctors to wash their hands to reduce incidence of childbed fever is a classic example, but there are many others. According to modern (purportedly positivist) science of the 1840s, something unseen by the human eye could not cause death.
Now, there is a university named after him, but in his time, he ended up in an asylum.
Thanks for saying I was trying to control the parameters of discussion. I just thought it was stating the obvious – being in a position to ask whether the eradication of smallpox was worth it relies to a certain extent on having an infant mortality rate in the region of 1/1000 rather than 300/1000.
BTW, the Church took 400 years to say Galileo was correct.
And Galen was viewed as correct for 1200-odd years until science came onto the scene.
So even if it isn’t instantaneous, it still beats the competitors. And Simmelweis was eventually recognised because he had the hard data rather than relying on wishful thinking.
@ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely
…my children have been vaccinated reluctantly and through expediency because i wanted them to go to creche….but this does not mean i dont have enormous respect for my doctor who advised against blanket vaccinations for very young babies ….nor other parents who choose not to vaccinate…and also the scientists and microbiologists who study viruses( some of these people are also anti- blanket vaccination for their children…in fact it was hearing one of these experts on the radio that made me first aware that there was controversy…this was before children)
…also i have a fascination with the nature of viruses….they are endlessly fascinating…they are part of the building blocks of life ….are they conscious in some primitive way?… how do they interact with humans?…what causes a harmless virus in the human body to suddenly turn virulent and attack the symbiotic host individual….are viruses necessary and helpful to the individuals natural immune system?…. do some viruses protect against worse viruses and cancer?…. are viruses an essential part of evolution?(physical and conscious)…….what causes a pandemic like the Spanish flu straight after WW1?…do viruses turn virulent when a population is under severe stress?….almost like a death wish in the host activated?( in which case there may be other ways of treating this stress rather than blanket vaccination of both the stressed population and other unstressed populations)
…quite frankly i dont see this fascination in the rigid pro vaccinate everybody regardless brigade…which makes me think they are authoritarian personalities…more concerned with being right… and not concerned with the science at all
“@ McFlock…one of the things i have noticed in this discussion is that those who are pro vaccination dismiss any evidence which poses questions about the efficacy of vaccinations for everything and for All people, totally out of hand without looking at the evidence….it is sort of as if their mind has been made up absolutely”
More lies, all vaccines are registered registered via Medsafe based on substantive data in relation to their immunogenicity and side effect profile.
The rest of you diatribe is so odd I don’t know where to begin…. so I won’t.
Chooky.
“I know someone who knew someone whose child died after being vaccinated”, or “we think” vaccination is bad, or “we think” vaccination is being pushed by those who make money from it, or “we think” vaccination causes ADHD, is NOT, evidence!
Evidence is, like, thousands of children dead or disabled by polio in NZ, pre vaccinations. None afterwards.
Not quite thousands but certainly a significant number.
https://www.rnzcgp.org.nz/assets/documents/Publications/Archive-NZFP/June-1999-NZFP-Vol-26-No-3/NZFP-JUN1999-Cullen-Poliovirus.pdf
KJT is right – what “evidence” do you believe has been ignored?
If the evidence in favour of vaccination was outweighed by the evidence against, we wouldn’t be having an argument. As it is, though, the reverse is demonstrably the case.
weka +100…technology should be critiqued….eg plunder and pollute the earth and water supplies with technology and then try and patch it all up with man made technology….this is the capitalist ‘solution’ and arrogance
…not to say technology has not helped enormously in surgery for example…. but to claim it is the solution to 99% of the worlds problems …when it has made a fair few of them…is ‘male'( i say this because it is generally males, but not always) capitalist ethos grandiosity and lunacy
Life expectancy.
In Victorian times many did not live long enough to die of cancer, or obesity.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint
Rule change reinforces public’s lack of say ( 2′ 46″ )
17:27 The government has announced that the public will not be able have a say on
any applications to explore for oil and gas in New Zealand’s exclusive economic zone.
Listening to Amy Adams talk airily about oil drilling being now non debatable by the public, the EPA being the only body to consider it, reminds me of listening to some of those Christian sects who quote semi-scientific factoids. Also if oil is found then people can then have a voice. And one unlikely to be heard. If there was a whiff of oil on their breath when they do the drilling nothing will stop them – they’ll charge like wounded bulls.
She says that regulators all around the country are making decisions about matters that do not have to be notified and consulted on, like aircraft being airworthy. If these regulators round the country do make decisions about aircraft and something goes wrong then like the Bannerman crash one in Christchurch it killed a number of our precious scientists. (Pilot broke rules in air crash, says coroner – National – NZ Herald News
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid…
May 31, 2006 – The Christchurch coroner has found that the deaths of eight people in … Mr McElrea outlined a series of failings by pilot Michael Bannerman …)
It was a sad loss but was contained in one place though it could start a fire off that would rage far and wide if we had Australian tinder conditions. But with deep sea oil drilling if anything happened, it would have long-standing serious consequences, Stats of 0.2 or .02% chance of problems – interesting how that would be worked out.
There was something on the news recently about the effect of diluted or mixed oil with water and it has bad effects which is not what oil companies want you to believe.
Line charges on the power bill going up again, from ~$1.20 per day to ~$2 per day.
That’s a significant leap. A couple more of those and there’ll be no benefit to feeding solar back into the grid.
Thanks artificially created electricity market. Thanks corporate governance model. Thanks privatisation.
It is extortion that’s what it is. It’s little wonder it feel so much like ground hog day. Bring on the power shop. In the interim we get wounded the crap out of.