Open mike 27/12/2012

79 comments on “Open mike 27/12/2012 ”

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1. KhandallaViper 1

   27 December 2012 at 6:12 am

   Are the bloggers on “The Standard” the cause of the divisions in he Labour Party?
   Mike Smith, a Standard luminary, who i’ve heard recently went on the payroll of the Labour Caucus offices, effectively says so. See his post http://thestandard.org.nz/amidst-thencircling-gloom/

   “our aim was to set up a labour movement blog and offer a counter to Kiwiblog’s pro-National line; not to join Farrar in making the prospect of Labour government the principal target for attack”.

   I’m perplexed frustrated and angry with this comment by Mike Smith.
   As a Labour activist I want to kick John Key and his team out of the Treasury Benches and install a Labour led government ASAP.

   Mike Smith and the current Labour Caucus leadership, and the bloggers and their fellow travellers are being painted into two opposing camps within the New Zealand Labour Party.
   –What has caused this division within the Party?
   –What is characterising and feeding the ongoing divide?
   –How can the destructive spell be broken and the ground prepared for a Labour victory in 2014?
   • bad12 1.1

     27 December 2012 at 7:34 am

     My view- at the heart of the ongoing tensions within Labour is the divide between the Neo-Liberals and what could be seen as the traditional Labour membership, the ‘cloth cap’…
   • Coronial typer 1.2

     27 December 2012 at 7:49 am

     One suspects after 220 comments Mike Smith realises that sometimes not even the Jesuits could convert such a rebellious, stinky, furious, mucky, inchoate, atavistic, ebullient, wilful, growly, vituperative, beastly bunch of heathens as The Standard.

     And Mike, just as we took back the constitution, we are going to convert you as well.
     You are going to go Native by the time we’ve finished.
     • bad12 1.2.1

       27 December 2012 at 7:59 am

       LOLZ…we bad…
   • GeoffCartwright 1.3

     27 December 2012 at 8:03 am

     Nice post kandalla.
     I see a party a a cross roads, desperate to embrace modernitively practices and ideas but scared of the reactionary element – the loud vocal voices crying for a new direction or any direction but rightwards.

     We have the Fabian influence steering middlewards, the traditionale neoliberal neo glib centralists do nothing scare no one, and then the progressives, the young bloods who desire change, open govt. we also have the coming home to roost misaligned lefties, all splintered and cross aligned into different ideological matrix makeup.
     Poor shearer twisting turning pulled in every direction.

     We have CC back off message and on segregation on gift giving at hillside for the workers but for only the deep red ones. Message to the electorate from CC this xmas. Love me tender love me true but only if you are a extreme red, an extreme feminist and or anti freedom of speecher and I will love you too.
     Way to reconnect to all the people in Dunedin south CC and regain those lost and turned off voters.
     Way to go reframing the message and your image to the electorate.
     • weka 1.3.1

       27 December 2012 at 8:59 am

       The Labour party has extreme feminists?
       • GeoffCartwight 1.3.1.1

         27 December 2012 at 9:22 am

         Framed from the centre voter viewpoint anything not centre or middle wide wide middle is extreme my friend, scary scary scary and too easy for the spinners and the msm spin adopters to twist.
         • Tim 1.3.1.1.1

           27 December 2012 at 10:11 am

           The problem being though that the political centre has swung to the right over the past quarter century – which unfortunately is the way many in the Labour Party parly r munt like it.
           From my perspective, its a case of “I didn’t leave Labour, Labour left me”.
           • Polish Pride 1.3.1.1.1.1

             27 December 2012 at 11:27 am

             I see the problem as being many with loud vocal voices crying for a new direction. They do want Labour to get into power and National gone. The change and policy direction they are asking for is good and just and for the benefit of many. It is direction that understands the importance and value of people over money.
             The problem is that this is at odds with the party leaders current focus to recapture the centre ground. There are many centre/swing voters out there that are not yet as open to (or more accurately unaware) of the values and policies being pushed at a more grass roots level. Yet it is these very voters that may very well be needed to secure a Labour victory. Getting their vote is the goal of the party leaders and therefore the apparant direction of the party and policies that will do this. This is scary for many longterm Labour voters who see themselves as not aligned with this direction. They feel they have been deserted by their party.
             What all this fails to take into account is the effects of MMP on this situation. Make no mistake Labour need to shift their policy to appeal to the centre/swing voter, but they will not be in power without the Greens and even Mana and as a result what is implemented policywise once in power may be much more aligned with what it is that the left and grassroots Labour are wanting. But again they have to do what is necessary to get into power first, such is the nature of our system.
             • aerobubble …

               27 December 2012 at 3:22 pm

               What we need is to do away with mass private automobile ownership, get lots of young hoodlums to give the private car a bad name, have them running around killing people like the women just a few days ago when a boy racer run the lights.
             • karol …

               27 December 2012 at 7:40 pm

               Once in power they will be limited in what they can do if they get in on the promise of a pretty right wing government. The shift to a new direction needs to happen well before the election, and in a way that carries a significant number of people with it.
         • weka 1.3.1.1.2

           27 December 2012 at 12:07 pm

           So there aren’t any extreme feminists in the Labour party?
     • McFliper 1.3.2

       27 December 2012 at 10:55 am

       segregation on gift giving at hillside for the workers but for only the deep red ones

       funny. Publicly it was a bit of an oversight, but at worst it was a case of “National Party member who didn’t join the union did not receive a union service and ran crying about it to the ODT”. Fuck freeloaders.
       • idlegus 1.3.2.1

         27 December 2012 at 12:07 pm

         +100
       • felixviper 1.3.2.2

         27 December 2012 at 12:13 pm

         + another 100.

         Can all the right-wing anti-union commenters please register your thoughts on this freeloader here, for the record? kthanx.
   • Morrissey 1.4

     27 December 2012 at 7:36 pm

     Smith should stick to chopping down pine trees.
2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

   27 December 2012 at 7:26 am

   ACC makes another family miserable because they can, top lawyers powerless to stop the bastards:

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10856177

   ” Lawyers had challenged the decision in court, arguing there was “no logical reason” Paige could not receive the same payment in Britain, but the case was dismissed.

   Wellington firm John Miller Law, representing the family, launched further tribunal action.

   Practice manager Jonathon Miller said the case was a result of Parliament establishing that payment for overseas claimants was available only through attendant care, with decisions at the discretion of ACC and not challengeable.

   “No one denies that if Paige was back here in New Zealand, she’d be getting attendant care – but it’s just really the stopping of the payments, and whether we can legally challenge that,” he said.

   “It’s not a matter of how horrible the ACC decision seems, or how unjustified it is – the bottom line is there’s a provision in the act which says you’re not allowed to challenge these types of decisions.”

   Mr Little said he had not seen anything like the case. “From what I’ve seen, I can’t understand why ACC has made the payments, stopped the payments, and then put them through the extra hassle of demonstrating their situation,” he said.

   “I just think there’s got to be a better and more streamlined way for ACC to handle their particular case. There just seems to be a lack of transparency about it at the very least, and that needs to be clarified.”

   Citing privacy reasons, ACC said it could not comment on the case.”
   • aerobubble 2.1

     27 December 2012 at 3:31 pm

     This is one of those awful bad cross border policies. Our economies are interwoven, our ability to live in each other countries is taken up, so let’s to the cost analysis. Scenario A,
     i.) pay lawyers to get the same access to health care they would of,
     ii.) just provide the same access across the border (based around some metric like how much our economies are engaged in activity together). So if we have the same economic integration as another state of Australia has internally to Australia, then matching provisions must be made. If its only 80% then pay only 80% of the ACC provision. Similar to the UK, if we are integrated with their economy in the billions a significant part of our own economy, then pay a proportion. If we have no economy with say an country then pay zilch. Why should Chinese NZ suffer because some UK NZ can use the legal system to get a remedy? We should have a ranking of our economic friends, and above some amount payment should be 100% maybe. All those pacific islands who get tempted by China might think twice if many of their potential retires are living in NZ with a pension coming to them.
     • aerobubble 2.1.1

       27 December 2012 at 3:38 pm

       Similarly with Tarp. Why should a country pay out the full amount, as if a international company were equal to a national company. Pay a proportion of the fine to the international firm based on their proportion of their business in the country, since their loses would only be proportional to their activity in that country. So if a company won an action against a nation for loses, then the lose would be much less if the company has a wide international foot print.
3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

   27 December 2012 at 7:40 am

   Chinese slave labourer slips desperation note into Halloween decorations, discovered by US housewife.

   Indicative of the character of the nation. Is this who we want buying our farms? Do we really need more cheap plastic shit??

   http://www.oregonlive.com/happy-valley/index.ssf/2012/12/halloween_decorations_carry_ha.html
   • felixviper 3.1

     27 December 2012 at 9:53 am

     Anonymous desperation note. Which as we all know means not valid.
     • McFliper 3.1.1

       27 December 2012 at 10:58 am

       Lucky. The last one I recall hitting the news was signed. The Chinese govt assured the customer who complained about it (apparently the note quite disrupted their Christmas) that it wouldn’t happen again.
       • Crimson Nile 3.1.1.1

         27 December 2012 at 11:34 am

         Can’t have the world’s privileged being reminded what their lifestyle expectations are actually built on.
       • felixviper 3.1.1.2

         27 December 2012 at 12:10 pm

         I’m so glad we’re in business with the Chinese Govt.
   • aerobubble 3.2

     27 December 2012 at 3:40 pm

     This is why we have batch control numbers, so we can fire a worker who puts political stuff in with the NZ product.
4. AsleepWhileWalking 4

   27 December 2012 at 7:53 am

   Ah hahha ha. It’s from 2008 and parodies the Reserve Bank (Australian). Watchout for the bit at the end just after the first credits run…

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NIfH0vY2ANA
5. LynWiper 5

   27 December 2012 at 8:18 am

   Some good points made

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10856144
6. T 6

   27 December 2012 at 8:29 am

   Saw this the other day…

   Employers can fire workers they find too sexy, US court rules
   • Populuxe1 6.1

     27 December 2012 at 7:01 pm

     Yeah, apparently the Taliban have taken over the Supreme Court of Oregon
     • Napkins 6.1.1

       27 December 2012 at 7:07 pm

       No, it’s just that the US judicial system no longer consistently protects the rights of ordinary citizens.
       • Populuxe1 6.1.1.1

         29 December 2012 at 3:29 pm

         Not sure that sexy people are all that “ordinary” but effectively this is the same as forcing women to wear burkas because they might inspire lustful thoughts in weak-willed, childish men. I rest my case.
7. bad12 7

   27 December 2012 at 8:29 am

   A simple thought on a dull morning, as part of the extensive sloganeering that accompanied the ‘neo-liberal revolution’ we were constantly fed new-speak slogans such as ”the Government has no business in business”,

   It’s the same part of the ism which provides the ‘justification’ for the present Slippery lead National Government to offer up the most profitable of the remaining State Owned Assets for sale,

   Looked at seriously though in a small economy with continual high levels of unemployment the Government would seem to be the only institution of such a size to have the means at hand to alter these statistics in any meaningful way,

   Lets take something simple like clothing manufacture, this is a highly labour intensive area of business where a Government need only,(if the business owner),’break even’ to turn an actual ‘real’ profit for itself,

   The real profit for a Government to be involved in business, especially that which is labor intensive can be found in the other areas of Government concern, for every 1 person employed a Government would pay 1 less unemployment benefit and collect 1 more weekly PAYE payment, those 2 previous items alone would make a ‘break even’ business for a Government highly profitable,

   Obviously if we follow the money, the wages paid to our Government owned factory workers, out into the real world of the economy we can see that having come from the unemployment benefit to a wage the workers would now spend more into their local community where Government would again collect more profit from it’s investment in the form of increased business and the taxes it collects from this,

   Just a thought…
   • aerobubble 7.1

     27 December 2012 at 3:53 pm

     Yeah but computers, automation, petrol powered machines, have done away with work. So much so that by Thatcher revolution was required to create a service economy, where the huge glut of cheap middle eastern fuel would create excesses of activity for its own sake. Enter thirty years of declining government integrity, enter in rout education for kids, universities that publish publish publish, the modern sprawl all forcing longer commutes, housing shonkier every decade….

     Its call national socialism, its fascism, as all fascism is, its cannibalizes to create a veneer of success.
     • bad12 7.1.1

       27 December 2012 at 5:29 pm

       That’s a interestingly negative view of my comment, i would imagine every neo-liberal politician past and present would agree with you,

       By your reckoning Government ownership of Solid Energy and various Power company’s is National Socialism???,

       The fact is that ‘globalization’ of economy has lead directly to a glut of ‘labour’, this over-supply of labour will not become less into the future, instead becoming even more pronounced where the Asian and Indian economy’s use their advantage of ‘low priced labour’ to make more and more of the worlds consumer products,

       A large part of the shift of production to the ‘low priced labour’ economy’s’ is the cost of capital and the profit motive, funded from the tax base with only the impetus to ‘break even’ Government owned and operated factory’s of production would easily match or better the ‘low priced labour’ economy’s on a retail price of product basis…
       • aerobubble 7.1.1.1

         28 December 2012 at 2:44 pm

         We can feed, house, entertain, educate everyone on the planet. We don’t because the debt machine is at work, having turned money into the new one God to rule us all. All money is is a abstract construction of the people to facilitate society, its the MSM and corporations that demand we keep the status quo by imposing government upon the people (either by deregulaing and letting corporations run roughshot over the people, or regulating badly so needing the private sector either sell offs of state functions or PPPs). Science and industry have reduced the need for people to work, Thatcher came along, and using the cheap oil of the middle east, decided we all needed to be active, the alternative was a more leisure oriented society, so in order to create this new utopia of activity we have cannibalized the one off energy windfall of hydrocarbons, all to build a unbalanced economy design upon the precept of continuing cheapening energy supplies. Until we recognize that the free market can only work when the right wing stop their mantras used to cover up how they are gaming the market. The relative question of the merits of the low wage economy is irrelevant in the present context of peak oil induced climate change.
         • bad12 7.1.1.1.1

           28 December 2012 at 3:21 pm

           My view is that the ‘free market’ would have worked fine if there had of been at the outset that other mantra force fed us all at the time we ‘globalized’ our economy and went all international free trade,

           Remember ‘the level playing field’, not often mentioned these days simply because it was one of the bigger lies that sold the masses the ism,

           If all country’s had an ‘internationally policed minimum wage of an equal value, AND, if all country’s had their individual currency’s of an equal value then and only then would we have ‘a level playing field’ on which to base competitive capitalism,

           As far as i can tell you are agreeing with me on the issue of a global over-supply of labor, but, there will obviously be no move by either of the major political party’s to truthfully address such an over-supply where the dialog is firmly entrenched in labeling those who have no work in a negative way,

           Back to my original question tho, if a Government owned clothing factory is ‘national socialism’, then is not Government ownership of Solid Energy and various Power company’s the same…
8. KhandallaViper 8

   27 December 2012 at 8:40 am

   —-What has caused this division within the Party?

   Helen. Yes, Saint Helen herself…Sorta…
   She, and the then Party leadership including M. Smith, failed to move the Constitution forward with the times and especially failed to put a democratic leadership process in place.
   Also Helen (&H2) ran a very tight centrist and autocratic shop. She and Michael were doing such a good job on many fronts that they were forgiven failings.
   Many of the current team like Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson, Faafoi and more learned, as Beehive interns, to believe that this was the NZ Labour way. When Phil Goff became leader, under an opaque process, he surrounded himself with these neophytes.
   But the world has changed: Helen is gone and only mere mortals were available to succeed her. Also the take-up of Social Media has changed the dynamic of the relationship between the foot-soldiers and the leaders in organisations, whether business, governmental, social or political.
   Once the party leadership (Moira) announced that the members would attend Leadership debates the Jeannie was truly out of the bottle. And the membership were very very disappointed with how all the leadership gig was conducted.
   The Majority of the Membership did not buy into the self anointing of the current Leadership team. And that team said: Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers!
   They embraced division rather than unity.
   • GeoffCartwight 8.1

     27 December 2012 at 9:26 am

     Double jeapody double bind, double division or twin unity, party and caucus. Trouble is we have an election to win and time is ticking.
   • Saarbo 8.2

     27 December 2012 at 9:45 am

     The division will remain until Shearer and leadership do something to fix otherwise many of us will simply move to the greens. A very interesting and well researched article by Chris Trotter in Bowally today on David Shearer, for me it supports some the reasons I have about his weaknesses to lead Labour. Shearer needs to make sure there is a membership vote for Labour leader in Feb. If he wins then fine, if not that is the way it is. Then we can work together, otherwise I am very uncomfortable with the structure of the labour party caucus given the shenanigans that went on in the days after the conference.
     • Polish Pride 8.2.1

       27 December 2012 at 12:06 pm

       If he doesn’t win Labour may not win the next election….. Unless the replacement also covets the centre vote.
     • aerobubble 8.2.2

       27 December 2012 at 4:11 pm

       What was interesting was what they did do at the conference. Reconnect to the root of the party rank and file. The Labour was able to go far right into neo-liberalism because it disengaged from the roots, Clark was able to run a strong leadership because the party was disengaged. So the current batch of MPs know they would be washed up, exposed as they were, out of touch with a party base. The base had been shrinking because members could not get a voice. Obama election and re-election was due to a strong rank and file, and Labour’s collapse in vote matches up with a party not representing its members. The strength of the Greens emphasis this, Labour is tired insular and boring. Geez, Shearer looks tired, uninteresting and as closed to evaluation as John Key. They want the power but not the accountability. As for the up coming challenge, the new opening up will not have the effect on the leadership to change anything, that’s why the rush in the Shearer camp, over time they will have to move to a new way to deal with politics. The politics of huge fiscal activity force driven by cheapening middle east fuel is over. Welcome back to the return of compromise and the death of ‘don’t they miscarry if its rape’, ‘our children are patriots they should fear gun violence even at school’.. …elder abuse does mean denying your bedridden relative a mobile phone for emergencies.
   • Murray Olsen 8.3

     27 December 2012 at 3:39 pm

     I suspect Helen’s tight management style was a delayed reaction to Lange’s loose management style, which had the lasting effect of making neoliberalism the new kiwi paradigm. Even though she did little to roll back the changes in favour of capital, she made sure she knew what was going on and that any further changes would be the ones she approved of.
     Until the neoliberal Rogergnomes are finally cleared out of caucus, Labour needs Helen’s style, not David Lange’s. I see Shearer as having the management style of David Lange, but without the wit, oratory, or vision. Lange was obviously a narcissist, but a very bright and talented one. Shearer is a dreary and mediocre narcissist who would let the remaining Rogergnomes run amok as long as they complimented his guitar playing and his (wooden) stance on a longboard. He really is hopeless and we should all be worried because just when we have some new blood entering the political scene with the Greens and Mana, we have the ABC crowd, who should probably change their initials to ABCEKOC (Anyone but Cunliffe, even Key or Collins). They, not the left activists, will be the ones responsible for a potential loss at the next elections. There is no reason to vote for Mallard that doesn’t equally hold for Key, for example. Ditto Shane Jones and Tau Henare.
     I want them to clean up their act not so that we can end up with a Labour government, but so that the Greens and Mana can have some access to the levers of power and actually change a few things. A government formed by the Mallards and Hipkins of this world would be little different from the one we’ve got now. The idea will not inspire the hundreds of thousands who didn’t vote last time to get out and vote. I hope Shearer is gone in the New Year and we can get to work building some sort of real alternative to the financial sector driven “business as usual” that we have now.
     Kia kaha and Happy New Year.
     • karol 8.3.1

       27 December 2012 at 6:19 pm

       Having read Trotter’s post on Shearer’s back-story, and some of Shearer’s 1990s-2001 articles on private military companies, I am thinking he may not be the toothless, guitar-strumming hippy I took him for. Consider some of the things that have happened int he ,last year under Shearer’s watch?
       • felixviper 8.3.1.1

         27 December 2012 at 6:49 pm

         Well he’s definitely shown an authoritarian streak.

         * Support for the intimidation of party members who speak out
         * Support for Jones’ bullying attacks on the Green Party
         * Showtrial-like punishment of those who even look like they might ever challenge him

         Interestingly, this authoritarian streak only seems to come out when he’s attacking to his left.

         But these pro-privatisation writings perhaps offer an insight into the reason that extreme right-wing free-marketeers like O’Sullivan and Hooton are such big fans.
         • karol 8.3.1.1.1

           27 December 2012 at 7:19 pm

           Agreed. Though it’s kind of joining up some dots, because the writings are over 10 years old. Still, does make one wonder?
           • felixviper 8.3.1.1.1.1

             27 December 2012 at 7:25 pm

             Wouldn’t have to wonder if he’d said anything to contradict his earlier statements in the intervening years.
             • karol …

               27 December 2012 at 7:27 pm

               Indeed. I have a post on it scheduled for publication tomorrow morning.
           • Saarbo 8.3.1.1.1.2

             27 December 2012 at 8:41 pm

             It seems that DS has privatisation/outsourcing tendencies driven by his experience in the UN, perhaps mainly the success at Sierra Leone which he failed to replicate to the same level later in his career. Trotter’s article does show that DS operated at a higher level than I thought he was cable of, given his atrocious mismanagement throughout most of 2012. But perhaps the biggest problem is that he was clearly buried in the business of the UN over the 1990’s and 2000’s…which does explain his performance, he is not au fait with New Zealand.
         • Anne 8.3.1.1.2

           27 December 2012 at 8:31 pm

           But these pro-privatisation writings perhaps offer an insight into the reason that extreme right-wing free-marketeers like O’Sullivan and Hooton are such big fans.

           Would that not also mean they both knew about Shearer’s links to the secretive world of the military, foreign intelligence agencies and sub-contracting ‘security’ companies? If so, I want to know how they knew…

           Chris Trotter has done a magnificent job hunting this information down, and I’m interested in his timing – under cover of Christmas?
           • karol 8.3.1.1.2.1

             27 December 2012 at 8:43 pm

             It wasn’t unknown previously. When I was researching for my (tomorrow’s) post, I found some old posts on NZ, very well-known, right wing blogs, having a go at Shearer, some with images of Blackwater etc (postings from 2009). I think Trotter has some extra info via personal communication.

             Also Shearer’s articles, or at least abstracts for them, were easy to find using google – needed to use my public library login to access the full texts. Shearer wrote a few articles between 1990s & 2001, on use of private military companies, especially for UN and peace-keeping operations.

             (I’m not keen to link to the sewer or the blubbery one).Try searching on:

             David Shearer Private military companies
9. lprent 9

   27 December 2012 at 9:33 am

   Test message. Checking on the reedit.
10. vivaciousviper 10

    27 December 2012 at 10:02 am

    Amongst the dust there has to be a story,so i went the the source, the labour party website,
    there i found some crucial fundamental principles the labour party was founded on and it
    all involves the care, welfare and concern for the people of NZ, those aspects have been
    tossed aside and today the labour party caucus beliefs and principles certainly don’t resemble
    anything it was founded on, below is a paragraph i thought i would use.
    ‘ Labour started it’s life as a party of change – a voice for the working classes who believed
    that a fairer future was possible.
    Many of those first involved just wanted the basics – adequate food,clothing and shelter,a
    job with reasonable conditions and regular wages; support in illness or old age; and a hope
    for an even brighter future for their children.
    When Micheal Joseph Savage led labour to a sweeping victory in 1935,he promised major
    changes.
    Over the next few years labour introduced a series of measures which would become
    fundamentals of NZ society and culture.
    For the first time accesss to health care became affordable for all, the state assumed a
    major responsibility to provide low cost housing to those in need.
    A comprehensive social welfare system that gave support and security to the elderly,the
    sick and those without employment’, end of paragraph.
    The labour party representatives in cacus over the years have strayed far from the core values
    and fundamentals and that is the problem.
    The current housing policy, ie, building 100.000 homes is only targeted at those who can afford
    a deposit, the beneficiaries have been made to feel like ‘bludgers’ and in the Clark era it was ‘pay as you go’ for our elderly in rest homes,some lost their life long homes because of Clark’s changes to the health policies.
    It’s is easy to see why so many of us here are disturbed by the continual movement
    away by the current caucus to exact even more destruction of what was an
    amazing,respectable Labour party,it brings tears to the eyes.
    Leadership’s of the labour party change but there is one aspect that doesn’t change and
    that is the fundamental needs of the people,those needs are forever.
    • xtasy 10.1

      28 December 2012 at 12:49 am

      “the labour party was founded on and it
      all involves the care, welfare and concern for the people of NZ”

      Fine and great, but having been through what I went through, even under Labour, I feel “tossed aside”, sames as I feel they “tossed aside” some of their principles.

      SAD!
      • McFliper 10.1.1

        28 December 2012 at 12:56 am

        I recall back in the day that local MP (especially opposition) staff were dynamite at dealing with people “tossed aside”. If Labour were no good, try the Greens or Mana. Or a charity/church advocate (see your Citizens Advice Bureau).

        A lot of the time things were dealable without expensive court action as soon as the people doing the shafting realised that you had people who knew the system on your side. Good luck.
11. Rogue Trooper 11

    27 December 2012 at 11:47 am

    “The Saint is a sinner too” (not a love song, or Pop :))
12. Rogue Trooper 12

    27 December 2012 at 12:15 pm

    ream (did two front axles, both sides, hangars and eyes, one time, arms above my head, with
    adjustable hand reamers)
    Thomas Oord-The Polkinghorne Reader
    Keith Ward-The God Conclusion (which reminds me, listened to Lloyd Geering up last night
    more to come)
    Roy Baumeister-The Cultural Animal. Meanings of Life.
    Antonio Damasio-Self Comes To Mind; constructing the conscious brain
    Iain McGilchrist-The Divided Brain and the Making of The Modern World
    Jerome Bruner-Acts of Meaning. Making Stories
    Jung- Answer to Job (just throwing that out there)
    Rodney Stark-One True God. The Victory of Reason; how Christianity led to Freedom, Capitalism
    and (former) Western Success
    Stephen Toulmin-Cosmopolis; the hidden agenda of modernity
    Jurgen Habermas-The Future of Human Nature
    Joshua Berman-Created Equal
    Martin Buber-I and Thou
    William P. Brown-The Seven Pillars of Creation (remember T.E Lawrence?)
    John F. Haught-God After Darwin; a theology of evolution
    Martin J. Rees-Just Six Numbers. Our Cosmic Habitat (and now he’s formed an “existential” society
    For God’s Sake) 😉
    Gerald L. Schroeder-Genesis and the Big Bang

    Robert D. Putnam-American Grace
    Peter L. Berger-The Desecularization of the World. Resurgent Religion and World Politics
    Mark Lilla-The Stillborn God

    Steven Solomon-Water;the epic struggle for wealth, power, and civilization
    Reinhold Niebuhr-Moral Man and Immoral Society

    “Let us face the fact that the monastic vocation tends to present itself to the modern world as a
    problem, and, a scandal”
    -Merton (it’s a scandal i tell ya, a scandal; not a sandal)

    “But often, in the crowded streets, but often in the din of strife, there rises an unspeakable desire
    After the knowledge of our buried life…”
    -Arnold

    “I circle around God, around our primordial tower. I’ve been circling for thousands of years
    And I still don’t know: am I a falcon, a storm, or a great song.”
    -Rilke, Book of Hours

    “Word I was in the house alone
    Somehow 😉 must have gotten abroad,
    Word I was in my life alone,
    Word I had no one left but God.(that’s “deception” for ya)
    -Robert Frost, Bereft.

    (i know which Spirit i prefer) and how that story ends.

    -“When The Man Comes Around”
13. fenderviper 13

    27 December 2012 at 12:28 pm

    I guess when solo parents are unable to partake in the usual “holiday season” activities many people enjoy at this time of year then today at 9am is as good as any day to phone them (behind the veil of “unknown number”) to “gently” terrorise them with questions about their job seeking activities and to “remind” them of their obligations to seek part-time work for those caring for children under 14, and full-time work once their youngest reaches 14 years of age.

    Heck if they are not exactly a “box of fluffies” at this time we could get some of them off their “welfare dependency” by making them feel worse and maybe drive them to suicide if we hassle them enough.

    It makes no difference at all that the present Govt. have done NOTHING to create any employment whatsoever, in fact despite them shrinking the job market today would be a fine day to ring around these “bludgers” and terrorise them some more.
    • JK 13.1

      27 December 2012 at 9:11 pm

      FenderViper on 27 Dec – did this really happen ? please explain further ….
      • fenderviper 13.1.1

        28 December 2012 at 5:44 pm

        Yes this happened on 27th, the (surely more costly) “contractor” may get paid by the phone call.
14. Jim Viperald - Once was colonised 14

    27 December 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Has anyone been keeping an eye on this?

    Fiscal cliff – or “a slope, or a slow but steady decline, down the road of fiscal austerity (for the US)”

    1. “The New Zealand dollar fell against most major currencies as the looming US fiscal cliff sapped risk appetite, stoking demand for the greenback …” (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/124395/nz-dollar-continues-fall-ahead-of-fiscal-cliff)

    2. Obama shortens his Hawaii holiday to return to the White House for talks (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/8121789/Fiscal-cliff-threat-nears-reality)

    3. Let it fall … and pick up the pieces – as Michael Cohen, last month, was picking would/should happen (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/28/falling-off-fiscal-cliff-scenario)
    • Jim Viperald - Once was colonised 14.1

      27 December 2012 at 3:02 pm

      Much ado about nothing (till 1 Jan) ?

      Oops, I had wanted to point out this paragraph by Cohen:

      “There is, of course, an easier solution to this problem: do nothing. Let the tax cuts expire on 1 January, with taxes going up on every American. Then, Congress can quickly pass a massive tax cut for those making less than $250,000, retroactive to 1 January. Neither side will want to wait long and force Americans to pay higher taxes, but especially Republicans won’t – as they will likely be blamed if no deal is swiftly reached. To do so would mean that all sides are politically satisfied: President Obama can say he stuck to his word about raising taxes on rich Americans, and taxes will have gone up without Republicans having to cast a vote; and both parties can reap the political benefit and claim credit for having cut taxes for the middle class.”
15. Rogue Trooper 15

    27 December 2012 at 2:44 pm

    testing (ok, i do make random notes; i’m not a machine yet)

    -The Swedenborg (a replicant)
16. Rogue Trooper 16

    27 December 2012 at 3:12 pm

    RNZ-Lloyd, coal and the commotion;
    cosmogenesis-our common origins-“adam”-Hebrew for mankind
    communication and cooperation for a viable for future (even Lloyd is a semi-pessimist)
    We can tell. Expanding U? Red Shift; Let us expand.Universality is a safe assumption
    Singularity and homogenesis follow.quarks, hadrons and me sons et al;
    “Come together…right now..over you.” Here we are, Back in the USSR.
    Dark Energy-mysterious or not.Red Giant.oils the white dwarf and the Black Hole
    for Satan himself masquerades from Berlin as an angel of light.It is not surprising if his servants
    Masquerade. Sex…I’M a man, I’m a goddess, I’m a one night stand and we make love
    Together we can do know wrong is Right (he hardens whom he wants to harden)
    a slice of Lemon with your Corona?

    Tasmanian devils-hardwood.Shearer Hawkes Bay Today?”Leopard does not change it’s spots”
    Space and Time drawing the Son out with the bathwater; There’s always the Son
    ahhh…The circle of life
    -Man in Black (does the lion sleep at night?) I witnessed a meteorite yesterday p.m
    these thoughts are fading, will not see them again.See that chameleon there like
    The News of The World pressing down on your receiver.Is there anybody out there…
    “run run away”.Meanwhile, whose singing lullabyes?; the Arab world’s gettin in tune
    http://www.abeautifullie.org/ Who do not lie.She don’t like that kind of behaviour
    Like Scott on the ant arctic, faith, if not accompanied by action is dead.
17. Rogue Trooper 17

    27 December 2012 at 3:39 pm

    home is just an emotion sticking in our throat, Home is Close to control, home is “i don’t recall”
    Let’s go to hawaii for the “Holy Days”. Home’s mind your business, “well pay the fine”
    Fuck you all very much; we value ENZA.Let the good times roll down the sluice…
    “rollin, rollin, rollin down the highway of no return.Not Fragile,Production’s in Overdrive
    concrete catchment.Time for some parchment anarchristic
    “but it’s not sphere, raising taxes will tie up our boats.”

    Ho, blind Bartimaeus…your faith is healing you…no more occular reduction. Think Globally
    act locally. Chavez is up and about. Beautiful Gate to the south the Golden Bay.
    The greatest amongst you will be your servant; Einstein and The Reverend Hone Kaa.III John

    poverty tours missionaries.you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come scoffing
    following their evil desires. 270,000 children living in poverty.The wealth of the rich is their
    Fortified City, but poverty is the ruin of the poor Refuges funded for 2000 women and children
    Respond to 30,000 while principals chalk reaching breaking point.Yes, it will break now,
    I think it will break now this is Permanent.Love lies bleeding in the Strand while lawyers milk the
    ERA.”pack mentality” as the Brethren “king of this world” bites back, yet our real furry friends
    lead the way; modify that science priests (no funeral for a friend quite yet) Don’t give up 🙂

    -Gabriel (from the burning bush)
18. Rogue Trooper 18

    27 December 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry.
    an inspection of the pharoah’s surplus grain reveals the draft papyri passes with nearly two thirds
    while parts of China duck the coldest temperatures on record (judgement without mercy will be
    demonstrated to any merchant not merciful; the potter has the right to make from the same lump
    of clay, some soldiers for noble purposes and some for common serfdom, yet Mao’s vision-
    That every chinese citizen prosper.However, cars are not just a particulate matter or a polished
    Customline.White Detroit Noise; freeze block parking. Got hot near the former freezing works
    Klan Lab? burn like a fire, burn like a fire in Cairo; neither can you bear fruit unless you remain
    In Lyn e. Love each other and not serve the apple. Make every effort to ad to your faith, goodness
    To goodness, knowledge to knowledge, self-control to self-control…perseverance cos the
    Spooks are comin’ outta the hoodwork, disclosing to Facebook HQ.ED (where upon 17M
    Iranians are disobeying their Holy Father, or following above) cultivation of virtue = called
    Benediction; lets talk 16 Times about ending the slaughter of Syria.shoulda sucked it up Hillary
    he is not William Jefferson by accidental cigar. Did you know that a foundational function of the
    ACLU was to defend against the pitch poured upon the cause of radical labour rights following
    the arrest and deportation of leftist activists deemed to be communist, Bolshevik or Anarchist
    During the 20’s? Scope it out.leek out into the world the love that God leeks into us-AB of C
    self preserve not (are we agee jars, or Jars of Clay?). Consequently, faith will come from
    Hearing the Message in a Bottle, we are spirits, in a material world (no need to break a leg
    walking on the moon) or be carried away into Babylon at 5 by strange teachings.

    There are three magisteria

    -The Police (speaking on behalf of Hermes Trismegistus)
19. aerobubble 19

    27 December 2012 at 4:19 pm

    A merry festive New Year to our furry bouncy government immune to the storm due to their rich fur coats, happily bouncing around like Tigger, and making as much sense.
20. Tim 20

    27 December 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Obama returns home from Hawaii early……
    ………there goes a social climbing slippery Dick Wanker’s chance to meet and fraternise aye!
    Oh well……there’s always next year I ‘spose.
    Hope and Change (and all that kaka).
    I bet Dippery Slick has done more hoping and changing than Obama has though
21. Rogue Trooper 21

    27 December 2012 at 5:12 pm

    He wakens me morning by mourning, wakens my ear to listen like one being taught
    The sovereign Lord has opened my ears,
    No longer rebellious and practicing the “withdrawl” method; ahhh…the sweet and sour release 🙂
    Under Pressure…people on the street, It’s a terror knowing what the world’s about
    Watching the good people scream “let me out”

    Shameful to mention what the disobedient do in secret Banks (do not dwell on evils that The Sun
    exposes)
    These columns have renounced secret and shameful ways, using deception sparingly
    Aero, Baby won’t you had me a line. Set forth truth plainly
    For The Sandman has Entered and blinded
    the minds of the unbelievers.To paraphrase “American slavery is not a spaghetti western”-Spike

    You did not choose me, but i chose you and lprent gives us shelter. Standardize to go and bear fruit
    that will last longer than Zespri; lepers and famine. Starvation, Self, or, Shares? 2 Kings 3-

    Each of you may look not only to their own interests; Look to the interests of others.
    Follow the money trail as it comes round the mountain social climbing.
    As for us? Let Him lead you, and the road will rise as you follow the way.

    Pr 10:9 The man of integrity walks securely, but he who takes crooked paths will be found out.

    Pr 10:20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver, but the heart of the wicked is of little value

    Heb 5:1

    -Billy The Kid, beyond the Pale.Rider. (off to clean and oil the Revolver)
    • bad12 21.1

      27 December 2012 at 6:13 pm

      Wish you would talk in English, as you write it in your comments it hurts my head to read and attempt to de-cypher so much that i have taken to skimming past your comments un-read…
      • karol 21.1.1

        27 December 2012 at 6:20 pm

        +1
        • Populuxe1 21.1.1.1

          27 December 2012 at 7:14 pm

          +2
          • weka 21.1.1.1.1

            27 December 2012 at 7:44 pm

            +3
      • Rhinoviper 21.1.2

        27 December 2012 at 8:25 pm

        I rather like it myself. Just let it soak in.
        • Napkins 21.1.2.1

          27 December 2012 at 8:27 pm

          Turns on those nice under used non-rational parts of the brain.
22. kiwicommie 22

    28 December 2012 at 4:29 am

    New Zealand really needs anti-corruption legislation, Roger Douglus would have been imprisoned rather than been given a knighthood. But I can dream.
23. Morrissey 23

    28 December 2012 at 6:07 am

    New Zealand really needs anti-corruption legislation, Roger Douglus would have been imprisoned rather than been given a knighthood.

    As would David Caygill, Richard Prebble and Trevor De Cleene.

    But I can dream.

    Don’t dream; SCHEME.

    Don’t agonize, ORGANIZE.
    • kiwicommie 23.1

      28 December 2012 at 1:36 pm

      “Don’t dream; SCHEME.

      Don’t agonize, ORGANIZE.”

      Maybe if I still lived in New Zealand, the country has lost it’s charm for me. In 2014 though things could change, but while National is in total power I don’t think I could cope living there either psychologically or financially.
      • Morrissey 23.1.1

        28 December 2012 at 3:51 pm

        I’m sorry to hear that, my friend.

        We need you back here, pronto.
24. venkatdial 24

    7 January 2013 at 7:09 pm

    nice thought 🙂

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