I thought a note of thanks should be posted to lprent and the authors for the Standard.
It provides a number of us the opportunity to put news items up for discussion and the subsequent nuanced analysis and contributions of knowledge and experience that occurs certainly helps my thinking on issues.
Some, repeat some, efforts by RWNJs helps to challenge, although normally reinforce my thoughts.
It is surprising how the collective thoughts that result then seeps out into Parliament and into the media.
I totally agree with your comments, ms, and add my thanks. The Standard has been and remains a ‘lifeline’ to me over some torrid times in recent years. Reading it and occasionally commenting has become a part of daily life.
Hear hear micky. Like deuto, for me The Standard is what keeps me sane during this nasty patch of governmentitis. The Shipley years made me utterly depressed but with this identikit Shonkey plunderfest I feel strengthened by like-minded people on this site. Well done The Standard!!!
The Standard has certainly been my sanctuary in disillusioned times. I wholeheartedly agree with ms and also offer my gratitude to those who contribute ensuring healthy, well informed and sourced debate on critical issues. Most encouraging of all for me is knowing there is a collective social conscience with NZ’s best interests at heart. Thank you.
Me too. As I live a long way away from big cities the Standard is an important link with the real world. Some of the opposing views are also important. Don’t want to become as one eyed as the wrong Right team!
The same here, a daily visit is the way to get the day going.
Even Bryce had nice things to say about us.
the blogosphere is fairly scathing of Justice Neazor’s report. At the extreme end, The Standard blogsite has the angriest commentary – see, for example, Key fails to guard the guardians and What does Key have to gain by lying?
I too would like to thank The Standard.It is only recently that I have decided to try to become more politically aware in order to make sense of the insidious rot that is eroding our country. I have found The Standard to be invaluable with its(mostly) impartial commentary and breaking down of information to people like myself who get bogged down with the whys and wherefores,so that we can get a glimmer of true understanding of Parliament and its workings.I hope to be able to come to unbiased opinions instead of only dislke of personalities, through logical thinking.However it will take me some time to be able to look at key and cronies without wanting to slap the lot of them!I am deeply saddened at the state of our beautiful country and its more vulnerable citizens.
“New Zealand mothers kill more children than any other group in society and men are victims of domestic violence as often as women, a police investigation has found.
University of Otago Professor David Fergusson, an expert on domestic violence, said the public perception that men were the perpetrators of most domestic violence was the result of biased publicity.
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do,” Mr Fergusson said. ”
Well, well, well. So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”. No doubt they will be working over time to bury this one or twist it to fit their feminist orthodoxy.
I believe neo classical economics is a failed ideology that has exacerbated the divide between rich and poor. Every time the reports/stats come out showing increasing poverty and accumulation of even more wealth by the ultra rich, the Free marketers work over time to bury it.
You going to accuse me of bitching again, BloodyOrphan?
The report, which did not include all deaths that occurred during that period, found 15 out of 33 child victims were killed by their mums.
Five newborn babies were killed by women who concealed their pregnancies, while six children were killed by their mothers prior to them committing suicide.
…
More than 80 per cent of women’s deaths were a result of partner violence – compared to 29 per cent of men – representing 57 per cent of all adult family violence deaths.
Women (65 per cent) and children (91 per cent) were commonly killed by people who lived in the same house.
While men (48 per cent) were mostly killed by people outside their immediate family.
Yes, women can be violent, but women are still more often victims of male violence than vice versa. And much of the female violence is by mothers against children. It looks like the result of women in positions where they feel unable to live up to the pressures on them to care for children in circumstances which make that difficult.
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do”
That message is not in keeping with feminist orthodoxy.
“It looks like the result of women in positions where they feel unable to live up to the pressures on them to care for children in circumstances which make that difficult.”
There you go, a very sympathetic treatment you give there to women offenders – after insisting men are more violent than women.
Yes, I’m a feminist, KP. We come in different varieties. I never say “men are the problem”. Many men work to change things for the better. But we still live in a predominantly patriarchal society, in which the balance of power in most situations benefits a lot of men.
Society is the problem.
I’m also left wing, and there are some women, in various contexts, who have more power than some men.
It’s not a straightforward situation where any one demographic group are responsible for all our problems.
But you seem to want to oversimplify things…. and you seem to like to attack feminists/feminism.
Karol, something I did not mention below was that we also mapped out assaults by people unknown to each other prior to the assault…almost exclusively male.
I suspect the figures for womens assaults of relatives / family etc are highly biased by their predominance in roles as the domestic caregivers etc, along with the resultant proximity and stresses. In our current version of society / economy men don’t get so exposed to this.
Years back I was research assistant with open access to Police files mapping acts of violence reported to the Police, and transposing the addresses of the assaulted and assailant, and gathering data etc. From memory we recorded:
* there was no socio economic bias on location of domestic assaults.
* the vast majority of domestic assaults reported were by males.
* women often assaulted their partners BUT these cases rarely went to court.
* assaults with significant injury were almost exclusively perpetrated by males.
From the Police notes we surmised that there was a high bias amongst males to not report or want to pursue acts of violence by females: they were often reported by third parties. So yes women assaulted men. Remembering this was years ago but I do not recall significant reports of assaults against children or seniors. What I suspect this represents is a different attitude at the time which thankfully has changed.
On the type of violence in domestic disputes the significant things I recall recording were the capacity of males for extreme violence (no female equivalence), and the amount of (female) verbal abuse from partners that these men blamed for their offending. (Before anybody objects to me saying this remember we were researching, not drawing conclusions.., that was not our job).
So to your comment about feminist propaganda: women have every reason to fear male violence, we males have a good track record as offenders. The significant difference is that we males are usually far better at dishing out the rough stuff than women. The absolute necessity for safe places like Womens Refuges for victims of male violence attests to this.
If feminists have made a big issue of male violence it is because they need to: there is an easy way to shut them up….we males should stop doing the violence.
Well said Bored, I myself could sit there all day while they wail away on me wouldn’t even blink.
If I on the other hand threw one punch, they’d likely be in hospital or dead.
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do,”
Not exactly in keeping with the feminist meme – ‘men are the problem’.
KP the reason I went to some length to reply was your final line: So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”. No doubt they will be working over time to bury this one or twist it to fit their feminist orthodoxy.
You may wish to consider that that particular meme being fronted by a particularly vociferous group is very necessary. Feminists have called a spade a spade. They should be applauded for this. They have the bravery to face mens reaction to force the change.
If you have a positive meme on this violence issue (i.e. any substantive female violence against men and children) I will support you: I suspect feminists would do the same.
“Feminists have called a spade a spade…They should be applauded for this.”
No, they have distorted the issue to fit their extremist ideology.
Here’s just one small snippet from a leading feminist luminary ->
“The newest variations on this distressingly ancient theme center on hormones and DNA: men are biologically aggressive; their fetal brains were awash in androgen; their DNA, in order to perpetuate itself, hurls them into murder and rape.” (Andrea Dworkin, Letters >From a War Zone, Dutton Publishing, 1989, p. 114)”
Is that your idea of calling a spade a spade is it? Is that part of the feminist ” positive meme ” to use your words?
I certainly have been laughing at her fantasy fiction graphic design – seems she’s trying to style herself as a tough girl lesbian with a “Girl With The Dragoon Tattoo” attitude.
Its like saying I ignore Friedman, but I’m a believer in neo classical economics.
Leaving aside the lulz contained in you lecturing people about What A Proper Feminist Thinks, (which is a big deal because those lulz are epic in nature), your analogy is pretty whack.
First up, ‘neo classical economics’ is to ‘economics’ as ‘feminism’ is to ?
Looks like a category error could be in play there.
Second up, by way of labouring the point;
‘It’s like saying I ignore the Pope even though I’m a christian’
or
‘I ignore Friedman even though I don’t believe in a command economy’
Never heard of Dworkin before. Just read the wiki, did she have a rough time! Her life experiences would really have politicised her. Some would call it choices, others circumstance but when you read of her experiences you understand the reaction. Extreme perhaps, but hell what a response.
No it doesn’t. It shows that domestic violence is more often from women.
Violence outside the home is, mostly, young males attacking each other. Crimes such as rape by strangers are, actually, not that common.
Violence committed by males is often worse because of , generally, greater strength.
Which means that males have a duty to make sure they do not harm people with that strength. There I agree with the feminists.
However I suspect a lot of domestic violence is because of stress, which affects women carers more, because they are more overworked and involved in family/childcare.
Rather than fighting about who does what, it would be better to try and find ways of reducing the causes, and stresses which lead to violence.
Taking steps to stop many people becoming poorer and more powerless would help.
What is the masculin personality and does it live in Men exclusively?
Is that what you’re asking KP? , and “Men are the problem” make any more sense ?
You’re right it’s not about gender it’s about peronality, and how would you describe a “Feminist” personality. If you break the word down it means Activist Women.
Activism is an aggressive form of communication, and aggression is in the definition sense of the word more “Masculin”
So the real statement should read “Violent People are the problem” and a Feminist wouldn’t usually argue that.
“how would you describe a “Feminist” personality. If you break the word down it means Activist Women.”
Your “Activist Women” are gender bigots. Here’s some more hate speech from their movements top dogs:
“[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.” (Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Secker & Warburg, 1975, p. 6) ”
“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males. People are afraid to say that kind of stuff anymore.” (from a 2001 interview with What Is Enlightenment magazine [referencing] Mary Daly, Quintessence…Realizing the Archaic Future: A Radical Elemental Feminist Manifesto, Beacon Press, 1998)”
“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.” (Andrea Dworkin, Letters From a War Zone, Dutton Publishing, 1989)”
“Whatever they may be in public life, whatever their relations with men, in their relations with women, all men are rapists and that’s all they are. They rape us with their eyes, their laws, their codes.” (Marilyn French, The Women’s Room, Summit Books, 1977)”
“Some women today believe that men are well on their way to exterminating women from the world through violent behavior and oppressive policies.” (Marilyn French, The War Against Women, Ballantine Books, 1992, p. 200)”
“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” (The Future–If There Is One–Is Female, 1982) – Gearhart, Sally Miller
Well said bud, welcome to the world of “Denial”
Those women are expressing what they experience every day, a personal perpective if you like.
And yes their chosen perspective forces them to see those things everyday.
So what are you trying to say about them bud?
At least they are transparent in their aggression.
(i.e. We can see them coming)
And my position is they are in denial about their perspective in life.
They say they are fighting for equality and then want to decimate the numbers of men, obviously not civilised. They are just more power trippin humans.
Many Many people are like that.
And ya can just leave it at “They’re a bunch of biggots”, we dont need proof of an everyday thing bud.
And yes I do support the Feminist activism, why?,
Because innocent people who are feminine, need to be aware of the dangers, which are many.
“result of biased publicity”
I’d say it was the result of the ambigous meaning of the word “Man”, it’s based on Observational statistics and real life interpretation after all.
“You’re making out that they are just an isolated group of discredited nobodies”
The size of the group is irrelevant, it’s about impact on civilisation, more “Reactionary” than anything.
And no these r my observed opinions of the world, im a bit of a minimalist.
You’ve gone out and picked up the most extreme examples that could find haven’t you? (Or, I suspect, are repeating what you’ve found on feminist hating blogs) Here, try this post on (T/W). I think you’ll find that most feminists don’t match what you believe.
Hey folks, you know what’s hilarious? Entirely without meaning to, in my comment above this one I linked to a Manboobz post which debunks almost every single one of these “quotes” k_p has provided!
I know, it’s a shock to all of us that k_p is mindlessly copy-pasting misogynist sp*m, but I’m sure in time, with sufficient grief counselling, we’ll get over it.
The Family Violence Death Review, released today by police, found mothers were responsible for 45 per cent of children killed by domestic violence.
Last time I looked 45% was less than half and is thus not “most”. What the report says is:
Martin and Pritchard found that children in their first year of life were most likely to be killed by a natural parent, with mothers frequently suspected of killing a baby in the first four weeks of life and fathers frequently suspected of killing an older baby in the 1-12 month age group (2010: 49). Fathers and stepfathers were more often the perpetrator as the child grew older (Ibid).
Labour’s women’s affairs spokeswoman Sue Moroney said the report showed “police must resume reporting full family violence statistics so we can get the full picture”.
That bit I agree with. Full recording and reporting is always needed.
Of course, if you want to get a better idea of what the report says then I suggest you read it (PDF). A quick skim is telling me the facts are completely different from anything actually reported. The MSM and Family First seem to be going for a sensationalist approach.
McF, I could not possibly comment as I am now (courtesy of KP) a “fembot”. Its been quite fun, gives me a very different perspective. I am thinking of sending my mother along to the M Anon meeting, a voice so soft, a tongue like a razor.
Having read the report (thanks Draco) I think we need to send the ODT and KP of to a remedial reading course.
You’ve never heard of brothers, sisters, grandparents and the ubiquitous ‘partners’ Draco? I’d never have seen you as the archetype nuclear family proponent 🙂
Looks like there is an attempt to redefine domestic violence. I’m not sure that women who have hidden a pregnancy killing their new born babies should be viewed in the same category as a man who habitually beats his wife, and controls her behaviour so she cannot leave him. If we want solutions, then those two things need to be understood and dealt with differently.
Likewise, from what I remember of the international research, stats showing men are just as likely to experience domestic violence as women used definitions of violence much broader than what we are used to, so that lesser violence was included alongside full out physical violence and hyper control (death threats etc).
Agree, Weka. It is redefining domestic violence. And there is no way the tragedy of a hidden pregnancy can be considered in this redefining. Defining crime or even accident by outcome is almost always ridiculous (e.g. theft s theft whether it be $5 or $5,000 and a drink driving death is different to badly maintained car causing death), it needs to be defined more (but not exclusively) by cause.
Of course there are huge problems in how people handle relationships and this is way beyond urgently needing to be addressed – for both women and men. Men do have a responsibility to control their violence, especially against those smaller and weaker than they are, because they cause vastly more physical damage. I suggest that women made powerless through domestic violence are more likely to transfer that powerlessness and violence to their children, and children to each other, and clearly they can carry that through to their own adult behaviour. It has been argued
that for men aggression is `a means of exerting control over other people when they feel the need to reclaim power or self-esteem’. For women it is `a temporary loss of control caused by overwhelming pressure and resulting in guilt’… For women it is a failure of self-control, for men a means of imposing control and one which rarely results in guilt.
Also, research shows [pdf] up to 35% of children who witness or experience violence suffer from diminished aspirations – their world view narrows as does their hopes for their future – depression, self harm and suicidal thoughts, dissociation, withdrawal, truancy, inability to be happy, helplessness and hopelessness, sleep disorders, skin disorders and other stress related illnesses. This can be worse for children who witness domestic violence than for children who are beaten themselves. Adolescents who witness domestic violence are more likely to drop out of school, exhibit deviant and anti-social behaviour, abuse alcohol and drugs, and imitate the relationships they were exposed to (although this is not inevitable).
IMO, until the scourge of domestic violence is addressed by cause, statistics like this cannot stand alone as a snapshot of violent and tragic family behaviour.
-When we were primary-school age, our “mother” would “punish” us (read project, and discharge all her anger and “disgust”) upon us by regularly holding an arm so we could not escape and beating us all over our bodies with a hearth-brush or leather strap)
-i still have the scar-tissue on the back of my head where she broke a Temuka plate over it as a teenager
-she regularly verbalised “she wished she never bloody had us” and “wished we were dead”
-she maintained the authority of fear by threatening placement in Social Welfare home
-i could go on, and on, and on, but i have chosen to forget now, most of the time, Forgive, and i am hungry for some Fish and Chips.
I have studied childhood physical, emotional and psychological Abuse, and it is a rabid cancer upon our society, increasing every day under the pressures of poverty and poor education in what it is to be human Being.
The mention of being scarred by a “Temuka plate”…sent a shiver of deep seated pleasure up my spine. A true NZ bludgeon, home made plates and weaponry. South Canterbury no less, pre finance types. Our plates and bowls, not some imported stuff but true NZ made tableware…those were the days. Must say your mother sounded like she creatively wielded it in the true international human style, but you possess a true NZ generated scar. Might we preserve you as a living exhibit to the benefits of import control.
What would help in times of parental depression and/or rage is for parenthood to have a high standing in the community, along with realistic understanding of the ongoing demands on parents that can play havoc with kindly feelings. And with more friendly understanding to parents, a helpline where stressed parents could ring and get practical kindly help not the sort of command and control that some nurses and judgmental social workers give. A great way to relieve parents’ stress, get a new approach and feel affirmed.
Plus, let’s go wild, the chance for parents to put their name down for a day out with their kids in a very cheap $1 and perhaps free, organised outing if they are poor and on their own. It’s very different from that now. Not every parent would need or want this but it would be there for emergencies at no cost. The cost is a substitution for the bypassed later problems at school etc which would be much more costly.
The leather strap, the hairbrush, the temuka plate (ooh they are as sturdy as railway cups) they all hurt and better ways need to be found.
urggh… don’t remind me of the old railway cups and the ghastly tea/coffee that swilled around inside them. Add to that the cold meat pie and the stale piece of fruitcake and I’ve suddenly lost my appetite.
Anne
Hey hey there. Those pieces of kiwiana probably formed the foundations for many a small country town and provided inspiration for one of our folk songs Taumarunui on the main trunk line by Peter Cape. See Friday social and link to some good versions.
Yeah, Jokerman – sometimes you’ve got to choose to forget just to get by, and if something triggers a return of the memories, to just let them flow through and then forget again. I know I can’t go through life letting those who did harm control my memories as well.
“So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”.”
Dude, you’re the only one pushing that meme, which of course is really nothing more than an anti-feminist agenda – ooh look, all feminists hate men so nothing they say or do has any value.
As an avid Standard lurker and occasional poster, I am impressed by the quality of most of the postings. My only caveat would be that we all complain, but rarely offer an alternative solution.
True but coming up with a solution does take a long time and, most importantly, needs some idea as to what the problem is – i.e, the complaining.
Knee-jerk reaction, which is what we get from some people, often leaves things worse off. It’s a solution but one that often only addresses one part of the problem and doesn’t take into account anything else and thus is something that we don’t want.
Interesting to hear a Minister (Williamson)on Morning Report with a full head of steam letting strip about the failings of Mr Shirtcliffe in regards to the failed Christchurch building, yet there is a deafening silence about the Spying (Kimgate?) failures. From the Government at least.
Good to hear the MSM echoing the need for a full enquiry. (Wonder if the Report released by the PM was the entire report?)
“Wonder if the Report released by the PM was the entire report?)”
It probably was, these people live on undisclosed info, they write reports too cover their arses, NO OTHER REASON, they don’t give a shit about NZers and New Zealand Law.
They were born and bred by the likes of ShonKey to do their bidding, nothing else.
I wonder if this is the distraction from the Banks/dotcom/school closure/redundancies snafu?
When I heard that the police were investigating further I assumed, incorrectly, that they would investigate the designers, because they had been found to be primarily responsible for the collapse. But this is not the case.
Mr Shirtcliff, who seems to be very economical with the truth, seems from the evidence to have had only a minor part, at worst, in the collapse. while I have no problem with him being investigated, it seems to me that it is a poor way of solving the question of who was actually responsible for the collapse of the CTV building.
Hadn’t really thought of that. Just that Government Ministers are often silent even when matters are pressing, like the Spy thing, but eloquent over some miserable wretch alleged cheat. Perhaps Williamson or other Minister should be shouting the need to bring Spy cheats to justice?
You and Armchair might be right about the distraction though as it has become the ritual for Government these days.
Is it just me, or is the Herald’s shilling for National becoming more and more blatant?
I first noticed it when that stupid story about ‘bigger classes shown to be better’ article popped up over the weekend, and now the Herald has run two prominent beneficiary bashing stories that I’ve noticed this week about people who live in ‘million dollar state houses’.
So much for not becoming a trashy tabloid. ‘It’s only a format change’ should be the next Tui billboard.
If you read the story about the very valuable houses you would have seen that it was Annette King who was calling for the houses to be sold.
Surely she isn’t asking for State assets to be sold? Has David whatever approved the change in policy?
Surely, also, it cannot be a Labour MP who is indulging in what you would define as “beneficiary bashing”?
Oh, dear, Alwyn, that’s not up to your usual standard. Housing NZ selling one house to buy or build 3 or 4 more is nothing unusual. However, if they sold off half the house to people resident overseas who will never live in it but who demand half the rental income, then there would be a useful corrollory with the Asset Theft program.
just a question here – does anyone else keep getting a failed load on the standard using google chrome?
happens on a regular basis to me (kind of one day per week or there abouts) – main page loads (whether thats a cached version or not im not sure) – but a post wont load once clicked on.
Asking the same question in Open Mike every day and ignoring the answer makes you look like a particularly stupid troll, captain hook. Time to move on, eh?
PROTEST AGAINST JOHN KEY!!
TODAY! Friday 28 September 2012 (from 11am?)
Lincoln Green, 159 Lincoln Rd, Henderson
Auckland Action Against Poverty is calling supporters to participate in a picket of an upcoming charity lunch that John Key will be attending. The lunch aims to raise money for a new children’s ward at Waitakere hospital.
We think it is highly ironic that John Key is raising money for kids when Govt welfare changes will play a huge factor in creating even more child poverty, ill health and homelessness.
This picket will be child/family friendly.
For more information you can get in touch at;
You will also find that the agricultural trouble has to do with the cost of energy: they have vast areas of glasshouses that need heating and transport fuel to get tomatoes to Oslo mid winter.
Key apologising over Dotcom mess-up. He is apologising for the conduct of others (who surely act under his oversight). When did he last apologise for his own misconduct? He slides out from under by scapegoating his “friends”. Am a little disappointed that Dotcom readily accepted this kind of an apology.
I was in Spain recently and although there were few signs of disaster the people we met were friendly ordinary folk with the same needs as anyone anywhere. The police presence in Madrid was phenomenal. We timed the frequency as being no more than 4 minutes before another policeman or police car was visible in the city streets.
The prospects for the people are pretty awful, but locals in the South believed that the local Governance was rife with graft and bribery and corruption. A massive rethink of official integrity was desperately needed they said. Just sad.
They need too regulate as well, welcome to the BANANA republic spain and greece and everyone else who signed that freakin thing, when’s the next round of sanctions on IRAN gonna hit?,
How many months do we have before our exchange rate permanently goes down 2%?
Maybe they didn’t read it M8!,
They shoulda had a HUI about it M8!
Is that Civilised BILL ENGLISH?!
The Green Party has asked the police to investigate the GCSB’s illegal spying on Kim Dotcom saying the agency appears to have broken the same law under which Prime Minister John Key laid his “Teapot Tapes” complaint.
Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman said yesterday’s report into the incident by Inspector General of Intelligence and Security Paul Neazor clearly concluded that the Government Communications Security Bureau’s (GCSB) actions in the case were illegal. Mr Key has also publicly acknowledged that too.
It would be good to see the GCSB, the Prime Minister and his deputy held to account for what is at least gross incompetence, if not a conspiracy to breach the law…
Yes, but how? The Greens have just made a complaint to the police but I don’t think the cops will be very happy about investigating the GCSB, let alone prosecuting them. In any case breaking the law, as we all know, means nothing.
What we really want to show is that Key has lied. That’s the golden egg that we should be looking for.
I think the answer is those reports are biased in a way that they can’t interpret, and for the sake of lives have stepped back.
It’s a new organisation only been in existence for a couple of years.
They need qualified people to think it through for them, but as always they refuse to pay the ones that do the real work, and compensate secretaries doing the minutes because they’re as corrupt of soul, and thieving as they are
(no offense David Shearer it’s not a universal thing I’m sure).
The cops won’t be very happy with the Prime Minister trying to blame them for the “mistake” either. In fact I think Police commissioner Peter Marshall will look very unfavorably on that. The courts will in most cases uphold the law, which incidentally is why much of the information has been released so far. Even some of the crowns pet judges are starting to question the excuses Key has been making.
I do point out a number of inconsistencies that show Key has lied, but unfortunately the only way to categorically show there’s been a breach of law by Key is if the warrant he undoubtedly signed to allow the GCSB to spy on New Zealand resident’s surfaces. This is unlikely because it isn’t subject to any government act to make it public. Without that, Key can continue to obfuscate and hide behind feigned ignorance.
The Police were running the KDC show. They had been working on it for months and provided the advice that he was a non resident and so able to be surveilled by GCSB. Why would Marshall be upset at that being pointed out (apart from general embarassment that they got it wrong again)? He should be angry with his senior managment.
None of this information has come out because of courts ‘upholding the law’ in any special or unusual way. Did the court reject the English certificate? Did it question the status of the surveillance? Did it instigate Neazor report?
It’s gauranteed he questioned it, but it would be based on gut reactions from Newbies.
“He has something to hide” would’ve been the only real fact.
They should’ve said he has a guilty conscience.
I would say that a Lawyer specifically appointed by Judge Winkleman to look into the matter and the resulting documents that have been made public despite Bill English trying to suppress that information is something special. Paul Davison QC is obviously earning his bread and butter.
If you accept that OFCANZ gave GCSB an assurance that Dotcom and Bram van der Kolk were not NZ residents, then you have a point. However no document I’ve seen confirms this? In contrast, the police planning document clearly outlines that Dotcom was a NZ resident. That document would have been available at the briefing held on 19 January 2012 at Police National Headquarters, 180 Molesworth Street Wellington, which GCSB operatives attended.
You’re saying that OFCANZ informed GCSB that they were not NZ residents after GCSB operatives had already received information to show they were residents? That contradiction should have made them double check the status of their targets.
Passing the buck down the chain of command is an age old practice.
Judges don’t appoint defence lawyers. Davison works for kdc. But I agree that it probably was his questioning that got the thought juices going somewhere in govt about the legality of the surveillance.
Neazor said police told gcsb. If he is wrong take it up with him.
Resident has the common and legal angles. There are plenty of people living and working nz without resident status. Neazor clearly says they knew he was resident (ie living in nz) and had some form of visa but not that he was a permanent resident, and so protected. They were wrong in their understanding of his status.
Why were the GCSB content to take immigration status advice from the police? Surely it’s the GCSB’s job to ensure they comply with the law?
The police made a cockup in establishing the status, sure. Or probably just hadn’t updated their files, depending on how long the investigation had gone on for/the file was open. But it was the GCSB’s job to check for themselves, not assume that it was okay.
This is a check that’s a fundamental part of preserving our freedom as citizens and residents of NZ. That means it’s shit you check yourself, rather than hoping that other people have done it properly for you.
All the “Word of mouths” and “Off the Records” added up to them acting outside the law.
It’s a misdmeanor offense for an unqualified person, which can have a critical, life altering repercussion on the people involved (that they have no comprehension of, because it’s “Not Their Job” to judge.)
But they (hopefully qualified GCSB agents) are judging all the time in choosing who to spy on. Your other point I agree with… The penalties involved in a breach of the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003 (PDF) are quite simply pathetic!
It’s the coal face “Trying to hide that judgement” that screws it up, the opperative loses perspective.
Why’d they start going on about Guns for instance?
I’d expect that ACT had as much thought as a “Free Lunch” it’ll be completely unqualified, which means it doesn’t allow for the above reactions, and having people (Captains) in place to deal with them, this organisation appears to be based on a clerical office and it should be based on “Real Life” police work.
I work with confidential data.
From day one of employment we reinforce the mantra of confidentiality. And in some areas sign documentation to that effect. We have statutory obligations (well, everyone does to greater or lesser degrees). And we consistently manage to work within those restrictions.
If we can manage it, the GCSB should be able to manage it, too. This case points to a lack of responsibility at every level of the organisation, minister down.
Those come down the the Individual understandings of the MP’s themselves.
Some indeed needed to be “Thrown Out”, denial is not an acceptable answer at some point.
What does “Honourable” mean to these denialists?
You mean the government department that key directly controls broke the law, yet he claims he had no knowledge of what they were doing when they did it?
Blatant Hyprocisy and the outcome is starving children and bene bashing.
Nothing civilised there.
Why?, some freakin contract they signed whilst wearing a freakin blindflold M8!
And the Stupid thing?, those countries would probably laugh at them and say “Do it b4 it’s 2 L8! M8!”
They wont even petition the UN to stop the embargoes for crying out load …. spineless.
At least the Australian government seems to be beginning to understand the limits of the “free-market”:
Communications minister Stephen Conroy has threatened to fund a new submarine link between Australia and the US out of the National Broadband Network budget if international pricing does not fall to reasonable levels.
Meanwhile, in NZ, private enterprise failed to bring about a new cable:
A proposal to build a new submarine cable system linking Australia and New Zealand with the United States has folded after failing to reach the $US400 million in funding required to build the cable.
Pacific Fibre, a New Zealand-based venture from three entrepreneurs, confirmed plans to close its doors, scrapping plans to build the 13,000-kilometre, 5.1 terabit per second cable between Sydney, Auckland and Los Angeles.
If we want to get what we need then we can’t leave it to the private profiteers as doing so will ensure that we won’t get it.
Pacific Fibre failed because prices were too low and excess capacity too high for them to make money…Would you like prices to rise and volumes to be restricted to subsidise them Draco?
Outsider bullshit that was their excuse The US government was making it to expensive to bring the cable ashore in California !
The regulatory authorities wanted to charge a $ 140 million a year just to link into existing networks
Actually, I’d like good international bandwidth at good prices which can only be supplied through government ownership. You may not have noticed but the restrictions are coming due to private ownership and reliance upon profiteering.
The ultimate end result of the “Internet” boom,
Those $ values get reclaimed from the only real thing involved, in this case a opticle cable.
People will always look for the reality of somethings’ existence if they indeed intend to profit or control it.
One of the adavantages of the current “Open Market” approach to our broadband is that it minimises the impact of this “The Telcos Own It” reality.
Bloody Orphin Stephen Joyce has just handed Vodafone and Telecom the only UFB contracts taking our telco’s straight back to monopoly status after labour cracked the previous cartel!
Yeah true, but if you approach those Telcos in a certain context (i.e “Ownership”), they are oblidged to give you a wholesale rate, it’s just another link in the chain, but it’s a gauranteed one that small business can use to get a leg up.
Assuming the state is civilised and transparently accountable, I’d agree with that.
But utlimately there is no difference, and what you are talking about is enforcement, which can happen in the private sector just as easily, if thought through and applied appropriately.
Of course there is a difference: where do the profits flow? To the people of NZ, or to overseas shareholders?
And enforcement is far easier if the Board and senior management act according to the priorities of the nation, not according to the priorities of private equity.
Assuming the state is civilised and transparently accountable, I’d agree with that.
Which private corporations are civilised and transparently accountable? Perhaps they should be held to the same standard as the state?
True, but Taxes will theoretically offset that, if they are profitable and operating within civilised boundries.
Yes they should be held to those standards, which is why I say it’s about enforcement/ethic.
Draco, be very very careful re natural monopoly…..trust me, I understand telco networks end to end, have done since before TCPIP was in underpants. The natural monopoly bit refers to the ability to deliver to the users home / work etc…the capital cost is very high….we refer to that bit as the local loop (currently copper, soon to be fibre). That’s where the capital cost is biggest so if it is a natural monopoly it has more to do with economies of scale and who can afford to build it….hence the government here being asked to fork out.
In the network itself where natural monopolies may not exist. You can build multiple layers of service provision with different price points all dependent on the delivery type, pricing model (and cost of billing). Yes you could run this part as a monopoly but it does not need to be a natural one.
In the network itself where natural monopolies may not exist.
You can have multiple backbones but there’s no point as doing so just adds complexity, the expense that comes with it and unnecessarily uses more of the limited resources.
That’s where the capital cost is biggest so if it is a natural monopoly it has more to do with economies of scale and who can afford to build it….hence the government here being asked to fork out.
And if Telecom hadn’t been sold off the surplus that Telecom would have generated could have been put into the network and thus the government wouldn’t now be having to pay up for the FttH network.
Did you note the extra expense that having competition adds? Did you notice the added use of limited resources?
This is basic infrastructure that we’re talking about and so having competition in it doesn’t actually provide any benefit – it just adds to the costs. And that’s what makes it a natural monopoly.
Good post, gr, and one which I largely agree with. I’m for the integration of emotion and political perspectives, with well reasoned arguments based on verifiable evidence. It’s a fine line to tread.
Also, I think Unforgettable is disappointing. I have a long relationship with detective fiction in book and on screen, and appreciate a good story centred on a female detective. But Unforgettable really does lack heart.
I miss those pre-neoliberal, down-at-heel, rough-edged gumshoes, often in conflict with the establishment. Southland is good though.
Prof Gluckman probably finds good evidence in his own work and others that how we are as we are can be modified by altering our genetic material.
Nothing too dangerous here surely ?
Richard Taylor and Len Richards have described the way that the Otahuhu Railway Workshops became, in the sixties and seventies, the ‘working class university of New Zealand’, as mechanics and sparkies formed study groups and held constant debates about social and political issues.
And that is the type of thing that I’m thinking about here.
Some things though, need more than a single person and the resources that that person has to create and so we also need to encourage and broaden peoples networking which is another use for having a PC and internet connection in every house that will allow people of the same interests to connect with each other and thus take a cooperative and creative approach to researching and producing what they want to produce.
Larger capital expenditure such as research facilities/libraries would be community based.
Modernised somewhat but it’s what I envision should be happening in an engaged society. People getting together to brainstorm rather than leaving it to faceless corporations.
Sadly, yet another “Are you serious ?” moment from our wise and benevolent (not) govt:
NZ is the only country inlcuded on an international panel to vote against saving endangered dolphins, including our very own Maui’s dolphin………Go figure……..
listning to Jim Mora now and Jane Clifton is using an interrogative at the end of every sentence.
Just like Mark Sainsbury on Close up.
this is a form of bullying that has gone on for far too long and it is about time for all the crusty old hacks (and the POAL managment) to get the boot and some sort of integrity and service re- introduced.
Arnie is about as non-partisan as the smug business analysts we have to sit through on th 6 o’clock news. Check him out providing an introduction to a series on Milton Friedman
Meanwhile, in the real world, they’re unlawfully arresting teenagers and denying them their basic rights:
Two Upper Hutt teenagers have told of their humiliating and traumatising ordeal at the hands of police, who arrested and strip-searched the pair before locking them up for 36 hours.
And, no, the pair weren’t the people the police were looking for.
I’m sure those cops were just doing their job.
They were probably the wrong people, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
(non-Pakeha, in a poor area, in 2012)
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Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
Headline: The moment of friction. – 36th Parallel Assessments In strategic studies “friction” is a term that it is used to describe the moment when military action encounters adversary resistance. “Friction” is one of four (along with an unofficial fifth) “F’s” in military strategy, which includes force (kinetic mass), ...
The Fast-track Bill, if passed, would allow three Ministers, unchallenged and unchecked, to approve the immediate extraction and exhaustion of one-off resources. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne iamharin/Shutterstock For many people, the term “bulk billed” refers to a GP visit they don’t have to pay ...
Emmas Hislop, Sidnam and Wehipeihana discuss what’s in a name. Emma Sidnam: Hello Emmas! Thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. My first question for you is related to what’s been on my mind for a while. It’s very important. You see we’ve recently had some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Sievers, Research Fellow, Global Wetlands Project, Australia Rivers Institute, Griffith University Chris Brown Humans love the coast. But we love it to death, so much so we’ve destroyed valuable coastal habitat – in the case of some types of habitat, ...
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In apparent defiance of the Biden administration, the Netanyahu government has now initiated missile strikes against Iran. Last Saturday night (Sunday morning in New Zealand) Iran launched more than 300 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against Israeli military targets. With the assistance of US, UK and possibly French forces, ...
Māori representation brings a perspective that encompasses not only the interests of Māori communities but also a broader, holistic approach to environmental stewardship and community well-being, principles deeply embedded in Te Ao Māori (the Māori ...
This week in Auckland, a group of young people took over the microphone at a ministerial press conference, to explain why they oppose the Fast-Track Approvals Bill. One young woman said, ‘We’re here because we love Aotearoa New Zealand. We want to raise our children in an environment that’s thriving, ...
The summer was wonderful. Evie was wonderful, too; finally a teenager, finally worthy of long, hot days. She shaved her legs for the first time and bought cut-off shorts from the op-shop that made them look long. She got a Warehouse singlet so tight on her new shape that her ...
When Thomas James was on his solo camp as part of Outward Bound, the keen outdoorsman didn’t find it too challenging, as others often do. In what might just be the perfect illustration of his character, he saw it as a great opportunity to solve a few problems. “I thought, ...
From the unstable and drippy to the hi-tech and pretty, here’s our ranking of all the tunnels you can drive through in this country. The first tunnel seems to have been built in 2200BC in Babylonia, kicking off a global phenomenon for digging holes in order to get places more ...
Lucinda Bennett on the art of being greedy but resourceful. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. When I picture the market, it is always this time of year. Crisp air, dripping nose, counting coins with cold fingers. Sunlight pale, filtered through specks of dew still ...
Zoë Colling’s favourite piece in the ‘That’s So Last Century’ collection is a lubrication chart for a sewing machine from the ’60s. It’s about the size of a postcard, and carefully maintained. “I like it that this piece of ephemera highlights that manual and technical side of the skill involved ...
Kia Ora Gaza A passionate haka reverberated through Auckland International Airport as a medical team of three New Zealand doctors received an emotional farewell from a big crowd of supporters before flying to Turkey to join the international Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. The doctors, who left Auckland yesterday, hope to ...
With submissions closing today, Macassey-Pickard says groups around the country have been supporting a huge range of people to make their submissions. ...
Our response to the new legislation is informed by targeted conversations with practitioners working in the system and through an implementation lens. ...
The new ‘Fast-track Approvals Bill’ would give just three Ministers the power to approve or deny development projects. They would avoid the usual checks and balances that are in place to protect rivers, land, the ocean, and communities. ...
COMMENTARY:By Eugene Doyle Helen Clark, how I miss you. The former New Zealand Prime Minister — the safest pair of hands this country has had in living memory — gave a masterclass on the importance of maintaining an independent foreign policy when she spoke at an AUKUS symposium held ...
The government's released the list of organisations provided with information on how to apply - just hours before public submissions on the bill close. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milton Speer, Visiting Fellow, School of Mathematical and Physical Sciences, University of Technology Sydney Before climate change really got going, eastern Australia’s flash floods tended to concentrate on our coastal regions, east of the Great Dividing Range. But that’s changing. Now ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Pearce, Professor, School of Allied Heath, Human Services & Sport, La Trobe University, La Trobe University This week, Collingwood AFL player Nathan Murphy announced his retirement, brought on by his concussion history and ongoing issues. The 24-year-old’s seemingly sudden retirement, ...
The Mental Health Foundation provides support and resources for those facing the loss of their job, so it’s wrong in the very week the Government adds another 1000 jobs to its tally of cuts, that this is happening. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Howard, Senior Lecturer, Discipline of English and Writing, University of Sydney Daniel Boud/Sydney Theatre Company Decay, terror, revulsion. These are three of the central themes of Thomas Bernhard’s rarely performed play The President. The Austrian is one of the greatest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ye In (Jane) Hwang, Postdoctoral Research Associate at School of Population Health, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock You’d be hard pressed to find any aspect of daily life that doesn’t require some form of digital literacy. We need only to look back ten ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says threats by ministers Shane Jones and David Seymour to reform or close down the Waitangi Tribunal were “ill-considered”, as legal experts say the ministers may have breached Cabinet Manual conventions. “I think those comments are ill-considered and we expect all ministers to actually exercise good ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Newton, Professor of Exercise Medicine, Edith Cowan University Pexels/RDNE stock project You’re not in your 20s or 30s anymore and you know regular health checks are important. So you go to your GP. During the appointment they measure your waist. ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Wajnryb McDonald, PhD candidate in Criminology, University of Sydney Less than 24 hours after Ashlee Good was murdered in Bondi Junction, her family released a statement requesting the media take down photographs they had reproduced of Ashlee and her family without ...
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The Ministry of Health has delayed the release of its evidence brief on the safety, reversibility and mental health and wellbeing outcomes for puberty blockers. While we wait, Julia de Bres speaks to those with firsthand experience. Best practice gender-affirming healthcare is based on trans people’s self-determination and agency. The ...
Barcelona’s city streets have gone from traffic-clogged to pedestrian-friendly. How? Superblocks. Ellen Rykers explains. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week I read a great interview with renowned urbanist Janette Sadik-Khan by The Spinoff’s Wellington editor Joel MacManus: “You can reimagine streets, ...
Student groups ‘Climate Action VUW’, Schools Strike 4 Climate and VUWSA will be on the street in Wellington today, the last day for submissions on the Fast-track Approvals Bill, with a message that the fight against the Government’s ‘War on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sofia Ammassari, Research Fellow, Griffith University Since 2014, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s popularity has grown exponentially – and so has the formidable organisational machine of his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). These two factors will be key to delivering the BJP a ...
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The Chair of the National Maori Authority, Matthew Tukaki, has warned a Parliamentary Select Committee that fast-tracking legislation is a perilous practice that undermines the core tenets of democracy, transparency, and accountability. ...
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Residents of University of Auckland halls are being urged to withhold their accommodation fees from May 1, in a bid to force the university to take student concerns over rent hikes seriously.The University of Auckland is facing a strike from students over the cost of on-campus accommodation. The Students ...
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I thought a note of thanks should be posted to lprent and the authors for the Standard.
It provides a number of us the opportunity to put news items up for discussion and the subsequent nuanced analysis and contributions of knowledge and experience that occurs certainly helps my thinking on issues.
Some, repeat some, efforts by RWNJs helps to challenge, although normally reinforce my thoughts.
It is surprising how the collective thoughts that result then seeps out into Parliament and into the media.
Long live the Standard!
I totally agree with your comments, ms, and add my thanks. The Standard has been and remains a ‘lifeline’ to me over some torrid times in recent years. Reading it and occasionally commenting has become a part of daily life.
Hear hear micky. Like deuto, for me The Standard is what keeps me sane during this nasty patch of governmentitis. The Shipley years made me utterly depressed but with this identikit Shonkey plunderfest I feel strengthened by like-minded people on this site. Well done The Standard!!!
The Standard has certainly been my sanctuary in disillusioned times. I wholeheartedly agree with ms and also offer my gratitude to those who contribute ensuring healthy, well informed and sourced debate on critical issues. Most encouraging of all for me is knowing there is a collective social conscience with NZ’s best interests at heart. Thank you.
Me too. As I live a long way away from big cities the Standard is an important link with the real world. Some of the opposing views are also important. Don’t want to become as one eyed as the wrong Right team!
The same here, a daily visit is the way to get the day going.
Even Bryce had nice things to say about us.
the blogosphere is fairly scathing of Justice Neazor’s report. At the extreme end, The Standard blogsite has the angriest commentary – see, for example, Key fails to guard the guardians and What does Key have to gain by lying?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10837185
Thanks all – comments both above and below – we’re feeling the love!
Bloody well said M8!, good people.
I too would like to thank The Standard.It is only recently that I have decided to try to become more politically aware in order to make sense of the insidious rot that is eroding our country. I have found The Standard to be invaluable with its(mostly) impartial commentary and breaking down of information to people like myself who get bogged down with the whys and wherefores,so that we can get a glimmer of true understanding of Parliament and its workings.I hope to be able to come to unbiased opinions instead of only dislke of personalities, through logical thinking.However it will take me some time to be able to look at key and cronies without wanting to slap the lot of them!I am deeply saddened at the state of our beautiful country and its more vulnerable citizens.
Yes, Chris, me too!!
” standin on shaky ground…”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837149
Otago Daily Times >
The Family Violence Death Review:
“New Zealand mothers kill more children than any other group in society and men are victims of domestic violence as often as women, a police investigation has found.
University of Otago Professor David Fergusson, an expert on domestic violence, said the public perception that men were the perpetrators of most domestic violence was the result of biased publicity.
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do,” Mr Fergusson said. ”
Well, well, well. So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”. No doubt they will be working over time to bury this one or twist it to fit their feminist orthodoxy.
Any thought on why? , how can we as a civilised people build a system that will stop these events from happening?
Or would you prefer too bitch some more
“Or would you prefer too bitch some more”
I believe neo classical economics is a failed ideology that has exacerbated the divide between rich and poor. Every time the reports/stats come out showing increasing poverty and accumulation of even more wealth by the ultra rich, the Free marketers work over time to bury it.
You going to accuse me of bitching again, BloodyOrphan?
Nup, I enjoyed reading that 🙂
And let’s look behind the headlines to some of the facts, which show some gender differences;
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7726347/Family-violence-death-toll-revealed
Yes, women can be violent, but women are still more often victims of male violence than vice versa. And much of the female violence is by mothers against children. It looks like the result of women in positions where they feel unable to live up to the pressures on them to care for children in circumstances which make that difficult.
I think the professor put it best:
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do”
That message is not in keeping with feminist orthodoxy.
“It looks like the result of women in positions where they feel unable to live up to the pressures on them to care for children in circumstances which make that difficult.”
There you go, a very sympathetic treatment you give there to women offenders – after insisting men are more violent than women.
Are you a feminist, karol?
Yes, I’m a feminist, KP. We come in different varieties. I never say “men are the problem”. Many men work to change things for the better. But we still live in a predominantly patriarchal society, in which the balance of power in most situations benefits a lot of men.
Society is the problem.
I’m also left wing, and there are some women, in various contexts, who have more power than some men.
It’s not a straightforward situation where any one demographic group are responsible for all our problems.
But you seem to want to oversimplify things…. and you seem to like to attack feminists/feminism.
probably perpetrate more assaults
probably pepetrate more assaults
[citation needed]
[citation unavailable]
[’cause it’s bullshit]
Karol, something I did not mention below was that we also mapped out assaults by people unknown to each other prior to the assault…almost exclusively male.
I suspect the figures for womens assaults of relatives / family etc are highly biased by their predominance in roles as the domestic caregivers etc, along with the resultant proximity and stresses. In our current version of society / economy men don’t get so exposed to this.
Yes, Bored, I agree with most (if not all) of what you have said here.
KP, some comments:
Years back I was research assistant with open access to Police files mapping acts of violence reported to the Police, and transposing the addresses of the assaulted and assailant, and gathering data etc. From memory we recorded:
* there was no socio economic bias on location of domestic assaults.
* the vast majority of domestic assaults reported were by males.
* women often assaulted their partners BUT these cases rarely went to court.
* assaults with significant injury were almost exclusively perpetrated by males.
From the Police notes we surmised that there was a high bias amongst males to not report or want to pursue acts of violence by females: they were often reported by third parties. So yes women assaulted men. Remembering this was years ago but I do not recall significant reports of assaults against children or seniors. What I suspect this represents is a different attitude at the time which thankfully has changed.
On the type of violence in domestic disputes the significant things I recall recording were the capacity of males for extreme violence (no female equivalence), and the amount of (female) verbal abuse from partners that these men blamed for their offending. (Before anybody objects to me saying this remember we were researching, not drawing conclusions.., that was not our job).
So to your comment about feminist propaganda: women have every reason to fear male violence, we males have a good track record as offenders. The significant difference is that we males are usually far better at dishing out the rough stuff than women. The absolute necessity for safe places like Womens Refuges for victims of male violence attests to this.
If feminists have made a big issue of male violence it is because they need to: there is an easy way to shut them up….we males should stop doing the violence.
Well said Bored, I myself could sit there all day while they wail away on me wouldn’t even blink.
If I on the other hand threw one punch, they’d likely be in hospital or dead.
Like the professor said:
“The proper message is that both gender groups have a capacity for domestic violence [and] women probably perpetrate more assaults on children then men do,”
Not exactly in keeping with the feminist meme – ‘men are the problem’.
KP the reason I went to some length to reply was your final line: So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”. No doubt they will be working over time to bury this one or twist it to fit their feminist orthodoxy.
You may wish to consider that that particular meme being fronted by a particularly vociferous group is very necessary. Feminists have called a spade a spade. They should be applauded for this. They have the bravery to face mens reaction to force the change.
If you have a positive meme on this violence issue (i.e. any substantive female violence against men and children) I will support you: I suspect feminists would do the same.
“Feminists have called a spade a spade…They should be applauded for this.”
No, they have distorted the issue to fit their extremist ideology.
Here’s just one small snippet from a leading feminist luminary ->
“The newest variations on this distressingly ancient theme center on hormones and DNA: men are biologically aggressive; their fetal brains were awash in androgen; their DNA, in order to perpetuate itself, hurls them into murder and rape.” (Andrea Dworkin, Letters >From a War Zone, Dutton Publishing, 1989, p. 114)”
Is that your idea of calling a spade a spade is it? Is that part of the feminist ” positive meme ” to use your words?
You are looking like another fembot to me, bored.
Me a fembot? Thats very amusing. You need to read some rather robust exchanges I have had recently with QOT etc. Hope she is having a laugh at this.
Well QoT is a Category 5 manhater, lol.
I certainly have been laughing at her fantasy fiction graphic design – seems she’s trying to style herself as a tough girl lesbian with a “Girl With The Dragoon Tattoo” attitude.
You’re what’s called a “useful idiot”, bored.
@KP – Calling Bored a useful idiot eh? Well, at least he is useful. You on the other hand…
Me- is drained, tired, sad, depressed, ill, fed up, lonely, miserable, beaten up, abused, lied too, hated, fat, lethargic and bullied.
That is Me.
Sorry I aint 100%.
It is kind of hard to be 100% when your body is ill and your mentally exhausted.
ignore extremists like Dworkin, imo
To ignore Dworkin is to ignore Feminism, numbers like her are the Godmothers of the movement.
You can’t separate out the ideology from the protagonists.
Its like saying I ignore Friedman, but I’m a believer in neo classical economics.
Its like saying I ignore Friedman, but I’m a believer in neo classical economics.
Leaving aside the lulz contained in you lecturing people about What A Proper Feminist Thinks, (which is a big deal because those lulz are epic in nature), your analogy is pretty whack.
First up, ‘neo classical economics’ is to ‘economics’ as ‘feminism’ is to ?
Looks like a category error could be in play there.
Second up, by way of labouring the point;
‘It’s like saying I ignore the Pope even though I’m a christian’
or
‘I ignore Friedman even though I don’t believe in a command economy’
or
‘I ignore Sta1in even though I’m an atheist’
ad infinitum
Never heard of Dworkin before. Just read the wiki, did she have a rough time! Her life experiences would really have politicised her. Some would call it choices, others circumstance but when you read of her experiences you understand the reaction. Extreme perhaps, but hell what a response.
No they haven’t. The research has consistently shown that men do more and worse violence than women.
No it doesn’t. It shows that domestic violence is more often from women.
Violence outside the home is, mostly, young males attacking each other. Crimes such as rape by strangers are, actually, not that common.
Violence committed by males is often worse because of , generally, greater strength.
Which means that males have a duty to make sure they do not harm people with that strength. There I agree with the feminists.
However I suspect a lot of domestic violence is because of stress, which affects women carers more, because they are more overworked and involved in family/childcare.
Rather than fighting about who does what, it would be better to try and find ways of reducing the causes, and stresses which lead to violence.
Taking steps to stop many people becoming poorer and more powerless would help.
An expression of “Powerless” perhaps
I’ve never seen any research that shows that, everything I’ve seen shows that men are the perpetrators more often. Got any links?
leading feminist luminary … Andrea Dworkin
Oh believe me, Bored, I am pissing myself laughing.
Take it away, manboobz.
🙂
What is the masculin personality and does it live in Men exclusively?
Is that what you’re asking KP? , and “Men are the problem” make any more sense ?
You’re right it’s not about gender it’s about peronality, and how would you describe a “Feminist” personality. If you break the word down it means Activist Women.
Activism is an aggressive form of communication, and aggression is in the definition sense of the word more “Masculin”
So the real statement should read “Violent People are the problem” and a Feminist wouldn’t usually argue that.
“how would you describe a “Feminist” personality. If you break the word down it means Activist Women.”
Your “Activist Women” are gender bigots. Here’s some more hate speech from their movements top dogs:
“[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.” (Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Secker & Warburg, 1975, p. 6) ”
“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males. People are afraid to say that kind of stuff anymore.” (from a 2001 interview with What Is Enlightenment magazine [referencing] Mary Daly, Quintessence…Realizing the Archaic Future: A Radical Elemental Feminist Manifesto, Beacon Press, 1998)”
“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.” (Andrea Dworkin, Letters From a War Zone, Dutton Publishing, 1989)”
“Whatever they may be in public life, whatever their relations with men, in their relations with women, all men are rapists and that’s all they are. They rape us with their eyes, their laws, their codes.” (Marilyn French, The Women’s Room, Summit Books, 1977)”
“Some women today believe that men are well on their way to exterminating women from the world through violent behavior and oppressive policies.” (Marilyn French, The War Against Women, Ballantine Books, 1992, p. 200)”
“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” (The Future–If There Is One–Is Female, 1982) – Gearhart, Sally Miller
Well said bud, welcome to the world of “Denial”
Those women are expressing what they experience every day, a personal perpective if you like.
And yes their chosen perspective forces them to see those things everyday.
So what are you trying to say about them bud?
At least they are transparent in their aggression.
(i.e. We can see them coming)
You’re obviously in denial about Feminist ideology.
Why don’t want to state your position on any of those statements above by leading feminists?
Na bud, like I said “Well said”, they are Bigots.
And my position is they are in denial about their perspective in life.
They say they are fighting for equality and then want to decimate the numbers of men, obviously not civilised. They are just more power trippin humans.
Many Many people are like that.
And ya can just leave it at “They’re a bunch of biggots”, we dont need proof of an everyday thing bud.
And yes I do support the Feminist activism, why?,
Because innocent people who are feminine, need to be aware of the dangers, which are many.
You’re making out that they are just an isolated group of discredited nobodies.
Wrong.
They are leading feminist intellectuals and activists.
Because of their gender bigotry efforts, men are perceived constantly as violent and dangerous perpetrators against women and children.
But as the professor pointed out:
“the public perception that men were the perpetrators of most domestic violence was the result of biased publicity.”
“result of biased publicity”
I’d say it was the result of the ambigous meaning of the word “Man”, it’s based on Observational statistics and real life interpretation after all.
“You’re making out that they are just an isolated group of discredited nobodies”
The size of the group is irrelevant, it’s about impact on civilisation, more “Reactionary” than anything.
And no these r my observed opinions of the world, im a bit of a minimalist.
.
Pat . . . Pat . . . is that you?
You’ve gone out and picked up the most extreme examples that could find haven’t you? (Or, I suspect, are repeating what you’ve found on feminist hating blogs) Here, try this post on (T/W). I think you’ll find that most feminists don’t match what you believe.
Hey folks, you know what’s hilarious? Entirely without meaning to, in my comment above this one I linked to a Manboobz post which debunks almost every single one of these “quotes” k_p has provided!
I know, it’s a shock to all of us that k_p is mindlessly copy-pasting misogynist sp*m, but I’m sure in time, with sufficient grief counselling, we’ll get over it.
Alright, kp, just let us recogise that ALL VIOLENCE is not a good thing!
I have NFI how the ODT got a headline of Children most often killed by mothers (ScreenShot) when their second sentence says:
Last time I looked 45% was less than half and is thus not “most”. What the report says is:
That bit I agree with. Full recording and reporting is always needed.
Of course, if you want to get a better idea of what the report says then I suggest you read it (PDF). A quick skim is telling me the facts are completely different from anything actually reported. The MSM and Family First seem to be going for a sensationalist approach.
I think that the ODT editors go to the same Misogynists’ Anonymous meetings as KP.
McF, I could not possibly comment as I am now (courtesy of KP) a “fembot”. Its been quite fun, gives me a very different perspective. I am thinking of sending my mother along to the M Anon meeting, a voice so soft, a tongue like a razor.
Having read the report (thanks Draco) I think we need to send the ODT and KP of to a remedial reading course.
+1
You’ve never heard of brothers, sisters, grandparents and the ubiquitous ‘partners’ Draco? I’d never have seen you as the archetype nuclear family proponent 🙂
Easy, they’re going from a simple majority basis, not a plurality. Makes for saucier headlines.
Looks like there is an attempt to redefine domestic violence. I’m not sure that women who have hidden a pregnancy killing their new born babies should be viewed in the same category as a man who habitually beats his wife, and controls her behaviour so she cannot leave him. If we want solutions, then those two things need to be understood and dealt with differently.
Likewise, from what I remember of the international research, stats showing men are just as likely to experience domestic violence as women used definitions of violence much broader than what we are used to, so that lesser violence was included alongside full out physical violence and hyper control (death threats etc).
Agree, Weka. It is redefining domestic violence. And there is no way the tragedy of a hidden pregnancy can be considered in this redefining. Defining crime or even accident by outcome is almost always ridiculous (e.g. theft s theft whether it be $5 or $5,000 and a drink driving death is different to badly maintained car causing death), it needs to be defined more (but not exclusively) by cause.
Of course there are huge problems in how people handle relationships and this is way beyond urgently needing to be addressed – for both women and men. Men do have a responsibility to control their violence, especially against those smaller and weaker than they are, because they cause vastly more physical damage. I suggest that women made powerless through domestic violence are more likely to transfer that powerlessness and violence to their children, and children to each other, and clearly they can carry that through to their own adult behaviour. It has been argued
Also, research shows [pdf] up to 35% of children who witness or experience violence suffer from diminished aspirations – their world view narrows as does their hopes for their future – depression, self harm and suicidal thoughts, dissociation, withdrawal, truancy, inability to be happy, helplessness and hopelessness, sleep disorders, skin disorders and other stress related illnesses. This can be worse for children who witness domestic violence than for children who are beaten themselves. Adolescents who witness domestic violence are more likely to drop out of school, exhibit deviant and anti-social behaviour, abuse alcohol and drugs, and imitate the relationships they were exposed to (although this is not inevitable).
IMO, until the scourge of domestic violence is addressed by cause, statistics like this cannot stand alone as a snapshot of violent and tragic family behaviour.
Yes. 😉
well, here is a personal anecdote for ya’s.
-When we were primary-school age, our “mother” would “punish” us (read project, and discharge all her anger and “disgust”) upon us by regularly holding an arm so we could not escape and beating us all over our bodies with a hearth-brush or leather strap)
-i still have the scar-tissue on the back of my head where she broke a Temuka plate over it as a teenager
-she regularly verbalised “she wished she never bloody had us” and “wished we were dead”
-she maintained the authority of fear by threatening placement in Social Welfare home
-i could go on, and on, and on, but i have chosen to forget now, most of the time, Forgive, and i am hungry for some Fish and Chips.
I have studied childhood physical, emotional and psychological Abuse, and it is a rabid cancer upon our society, increasing every day under the pressures of poverty and poor education in what it is to be human Being.
The mention of being scarred by a “Temuka plate”…sent a shiver of deep seated pleasure up my spine. A true NZ bludgeon, home made plates and weaponry. South Canterbury no less, pre finance types. Our plates and bowls, not some imported stuff but true NZ made tableware…those were the days. Must say your mother sounded like she creatively wielded it in the true international human style, but you possess a true NZ generated scar. Might we preserve you as a living exhibit to the benefits of import control.
PS She should not have done it.
Larf! wotta u like u 4×2 of humour you 🙂
What would help in times of parental depression and/or rage is for parenthood to have a high standing in the community, along with realistic understanding of the ongoing demands on parents that can play havoc with kindly feelings. And with more friendly understanding to parents, a helpline where stressed parents could ring and get practical kindly help not the sort of command and control that some nurses and judgmental social workers give. A great way to relieve parents’ stress, get a new approach and feel affirmed.
Plus, let’s go wild, the chance for parents to put their name down for a day out with their kids in a very cheap $1 and perhaps free, organised outing if they are poor and on their own. It’s very different from that now. Not every parent would need or want this but it would be there for emergencies at no cost. The cost is a substitution for the bypassed later problems at school etc which would be much more costly.
The leather strap, the hairbrush, the temuka plate (ooh they are as sturdy as railway cups) they all hurt and better ways need to be found.
urggh… don’t remind me of the old railway cups and the ghastly tea/coffee that swilled around inside them. Add to that the cold meat pie and the stale piece of fruitcake and I’ve suddenly lost my appetite.
Anne
Hey hey there. Those pieces of kiwiana probably formed the foundations for many a small country town and provided inspiration for one of our folk songs Taumarunui on the main trunk line by Peter Cape. See Friday social and link to some good versions.
Yep those old railway cups are treasured collectors items now!!!
Yeah, Jokerman – sometimes you’ve got to choose to forget just to get by, and if something triggers a return of the memories, to just let them flow through and then forget again. I know I can’t go through life letting those who did harm control my memories as well.
😉
“So much for the feminist propaganda meme “Men are the problem”.”
Dude, you’re the only one pushing that meme, which of course is really nothing more than an anti-feminist agenda – ooh look, all feminists hate men so nothing they say or do has any value.
Yawn.
As an avid Standard lurker and occasional poster, I am impressed by the quality of most of the postings. My only caveat would be that we all complain, but rarely offer an alternative solution.
True but coming up with a solution does take a long time and, most importantly, needs some idea as to what the problem is – i.e, the complaining.
Knee-jerk reaction, which is what we get from some people, often leaves things worse off. It’s a solution but one that often only addresses one part of the problem and doesn’t take into account anything else and thus is something that we don’t want.
Interesting to hear a Minister (Williamson)on Morning Report with a full head of steam letting strip about the failings of Mr Shirtcliffe in regards to the failed Christchurch building, yet there is a deafening silence about the Spying (Kimgate?) failures. From the Government at least.
Good to hear the MSM echoing the need for a full enquiry. (Wonder if the Report released by the PM was the entire report?)
“Wonder if the Report released by the PM was the entire report?)”
It probably was, these people live on undisclosed info, they write reports too cover their arses, NO OTHER REASON, they don’t give a shit about NZers and New Zealand Law.
They were born and bred by the likes of ShonKey to do their bidding, nothing else.
I wonder if this is the distraction from the Banks/dotcom/school closure/redundancies snafu?
When I heard that the police were investigating further I assumed, incorrectly, that they would investigate the designers, because they had been found to be primarily responsible for the collapse. But this is not the case.
Mr Shirtcliff, who seems to be very economical with the truth, seems from the evidence to have had only a minor part, at worst, in the collapse. while I have no problem with him being investigated, it seems to me that it is a poor way of solving the question of who was actually responsible for the collapse of the CTV building.
ianmac 5
Are you thinking that we are likely to find that Shirtcliffe is dealt to as a way of attracting attention from the spying debacle?
Hadn’t really thought of that. Just that Government Ministers are often silent even when matters are pressing, like the Spy thing, but eloquent over some miserable wretch alleged cheat. Perhaps Williamson or other Minister should be shouting the need to bring Spy cheats to justice?
You and Armchair might be right about the distraction though as it has become the ritual for Government these days.
Is it just me, or is the Herald’s shilling for National becoming more and more blatant?
I first noticed it when that stupid story about ‘bigger classes shown to be better’ article popped up over the weekend, and now the Herald has run two prominent beneficiary bashing stories that I’ve noticed this week about people who live in ‘million dollar state houses’.
So much for not becoming a trashy tabloid. ‘It’s only a format change’ should be the next Tui billboard.
If you read the story about the very valuable houses you would have seen that it was Annette King who was calling for the houses to be sold.
Surely she isn’t asking for State assets to be sold? Has David whatever approved the change in policy?
Surely, also, it cannot be a Labour MP who is indulging in what you would define as “beneficiary bashing”?
BANANA Republic, they’re trying to incease a transaction accounts value, and won’t regulate because of treaties with foreign governments.
Oh, dear, Alwyn, that’s not up to your usual standard. Housing NZ selling one house to buy or build 3 or 4 more is nothing unusual. However, if they sold off half the house to people resident overseas who will never live in it but who demand half the rental income, then there would be a useful corrollory with the Asset Theft program.
The NZHerald was a trashy tabloid before the format change.
just a question here – does anyone else keep getting a failed load on the standard using google chrome?
happens on a regular basis to me (kind of one day per week or there abouts) – main page loads (whether thats a cached version or not im not sure) – but a post wont load once clicked on.
Firefox works everytime
using win7, latest version of chrome and firefox
It’s something to do with cached cockies bud, I re installed FFox to fix it
haS LEN BROWN MADE ANY MOVES TO FIRE THE MANAGeMENT of POAL yet.
No, and he won’t because he can’t!
Welcome to democracy NZ style!
Asking the same question in Open Mike every day and ignoring the answer makes you look like a particularly stupid troll, captain hook. Time to move on, eh?
PROTEST AGAINST JOHN KEY!!
TODAY! Friday 28 September 2012 (from 11am?)
Lincoln Green, 159 Lincoln Rd, Henderson
Auckland Action Against Poverty is calling supporters to participate in a picket of an upcoming charity lunch that John Key will be attending. The lunch aims to raise money for a new children’s ward at Waitakere hospital.
We think it is highly ironic that John Key is raising money for kids when Govt welfare changes will play a huge factor in creating even more child poverty, ill health and homelessness.
This picket will be child/family friendly.
For more information you can get in touch at;
contact@aaap.nz
chris.zack@aaap.org.nz
sarah.thompson@aaap.org.nz
http://www.aaap.org.nz
Google map of the location here: http://tinyurl.com/9yljmaj
Welcome to the BANANA Republic Penny, keep fightin the good fight.
I wish I’d known before I left home today. I was in the vicinity & would have dropped by, Penny.
Spain in More Trouble senors ( and senoritas) areebe..areeeba
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/09/spain-is-in-trouble.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29
Also Spain’s agriculture sector is in deep trouble drought!
You will also find that the agricultural trouble has to do with the cost of energy: they have vast areas of glasshouses that need heating and transport fuel to get tomatoes to Oslo mid winter.
Key apologising over Dotcom mess-up. He is apologising for the conduct of others (who surely act under his oversight). When did he last apologise for his own misconduct? He slides out from under by scapegoating his “friends”. Am a little disappointed that Dotcom readily accepted this kind of an apology.
I was in Spain recently and although there were few signs of disaster the people we met were friendly ordinary folk with the same needs as anyone anywhere. The police presence in Madrid was phenomenal. We timed the frequency as being no more than 4 minutes before another policeman or police car was visible in the city streets.
The prospects for the people are pretty awful, but locals in the South believed that the local Governance was rife with graft and bribery and corruption. A massive rethink of official integrity was desperately needed they said. Just sad.
Oops Spain was for Jokerman @10
They need too regulate as well, welcome to the BANANA republic spain and greece and everyone else who signed that freakin thing, when’s the next round of sanctions on IRAN gonna hit?,
How many months do we have before our exchange rate permanently goes down 2%?
Maybe they didn’t read it M8!,
They shoulda had a HUI about it M8!
Is that Civilised BILL ENGLISH?!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837132
got it Ta!
meanwhile..back at the bat-cave..
some EXCELLENT educational news (march on the fifth column on the fifth estate)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837052
Dotcom spy debacle timeline
It would be good to see the GCSB, the Prime Minister and his deputy held to account for what is at least gross incompetence, if not a conspiracy to breach the law…
Yes, but how? The Greens have just made a complaint to the police but I don’t think the cops will be very happy about investigating the GCSB, let alone prosecuting them. In any case breaking the law, as we all know, means nothing.
What we really want to show is that Key has lied. That’s the golden egg that we should be looking for.
I think the answer is those reports are biased in a way that they can’t interpret, and for the sake of lives have stepped back.
It’s a new organisation only been in existence for a couple of years.
They need qualified people to think it through for them, but as always they refuse to pay the ones that do the real work, and compensate secretaries doing the minutes because they’re as corrupt of soul, and thieving as they are
(no offense David Shearer it’s not a universal thing I’m sure).
The cops won’t be very happy with the Prime Minister trying to blame them for the “mistake” either. In fact I think Police commissioner Peter Marshall will look very unfavorably on that. The courts will in most cases uphold the law, which incidentally is why much of the information has been released so far. Even some of the crowns pet judges are starting to question the excuses Key has been making.
I do point out a number of inconsistencies that show Key has lied, but unfortunately the only way to categorically show there’s been a breach of law by Key is if the warrant he undoubtedly signed to allow the GCSB to spy on New Zealand resident’s surfaces. This is unlikely because it isn’t subject to any government act to make it public. Without that, Key can continue to obfuscate and hide behind feigned ignorance.
The Police were running the KDC show. They had been working on it for months and provided the advice that he was a non resident and so able to be surveilled by GCSB. Why would Marshall be upset at that being pointed out (apart from general embarassment that they got it wrong again)? He should be angry with his senior managment.
None of this information has come out because of courts ‘upholding the law’ in any special or unusual way. Did the court reject the English certificate? Did it question the status of the surveillance? Did it instigate Neazor report?
It’s gauranteed he questioned it, but it would be based on gut reactions from Newbies.
“He has something to hide” would’ve been the only real fact.
They should’ve said he has a guilty conscience.
I would say that a Lawyer specifically appointed by Judge Winkleman to look into the matter and the resulting documents that have been made public despite Bill English trying to suppress that information is something special. Paul Davison QC is obviously earning his bread and butter.
If you accept that OFCANZ gave GCSB an assurance that Dotcom and Bram van der Kolk were not NZ residents, then you have a point. However no document I’ve seen confirms this? In contrast, the police planning document clearly outlines that Dotcom was a NZ resident. That document would have been available at the briefing held on 19 January 2012 at Police National Headquarters, 180 Molesworth Street Wellington, which GCSB operatives attended.
You’re saying that OFCANZ informed GCSB that they were not NZ residents after GCSB operatives had already received information to show they were residents? That contradiction should have made them double check the status of their targets.
Passing the buck down the chain of command is an age old practice.
Judges don’t appoint defence lawyers. Davison works for kdc. But I agree that it probably was his questioning that got the thought juices going somewhere in govt about the legality of the surveillance.
Neazor said police told gcsb. If he is wrong take it up with him.
Resident has the common and legal angles. There are plenty of people living and working nz without resident status. Neazor clearly says they knew he was resident (ie living in nz) and had some form of visa but not that he was a permanent resident, and so protected. They were wrong in their understanding of his status.
Why were the GCSB content to take immigration status advice from the police? Surely it’s the GCSB’s job to ensure they comply with the law?
The police made a cockup in establishing the status, sure. Or probably just hadn’t updated their files, depending on how long the investigation had gone on for/the file was open. But it was the GCSB’s job to check for themselves, not assume that it was okay.
This is a check that’s a fundamental part of preserving our freedom as citizens and residents of NZ. That means it’s shit you check yourself, rather than hoping that other people have done it properly for you.
All the “Word of mouths” and “Off the Records” added up to them acting outside the law.
It’s a misdmeanor offense for an unqualified person, which can have a critical, life altering repercussion on the people involved (that they have no comprehension of, because it’s “Not Their Job” to judge.)
But they (hopefully qualified GCSB agents) are judging all the time in choosing who to spy on. Your other point I agree with… The penalties involved in a breach of the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003 (PDF) are quite simply pathetic!
It’s the coal face “Trying to hide that judgement” that screws it up, the opperative loses perspective.
Why’d they start going on about Guns for instance?
I’d expect that ACT had as much thought as a “Free Lunch” it’ll be completely unqualified, which means it doesn’t allow for the above reactions, and having people (Captains) in place to deal with them, this organisation appears to be based on a clerical office and it should be based on “Real Life” police work.
?
It’s not a misdemeanor offence to unlawfully intercept communications – up to 2 years imprisonment.
Fair enough, but it’s an offence you can virtualy expect from a “NewBie” everytime.
They obviously didn’t read that .pdf either.
I work with confidential data.
From day one of employment we reinforce the mantra of confidentiality. And in some areas sign documentation to that effect. We have statutory obligations (well, everyone does to greater or lesser degrees). And we consistently manage to work within those restrictions.
If we can manage it, the GCSB should be able to manage it, too. This case points to a lack of responsibility at every level of the organisation, minister down.
Yes it does, absolutely agree, no where near enough thought applied.
Or was the right thought appplied, and then over-ruled by political considerations?
True, when it comes down too it, several people are facing 2 years inside.
Under the Westminster system there is a well established tradition of Ministerial Responsibility with attendant resignations…..
Those come down the the Individual understandings of the MP’s themselves.
Some indeed needed to be “Thrown Out”, denial is not an acceptable answer at some point.
What does “Honourable” mean to these denialists?
Mary – Has he ever stopped lying? Problem is that people are now so accustomed to it. “What’s new?”
So, you dont care that a government department may have broken the law, you just want to “get key”. ok.
You mean the government department that key directly controls broke the law, yet he claims he had no knowledge of what they were doing when they did it?
Blatant Hyprocisy and the outcome is starving children and bene bashing.
Nothing civilised there.
Why?, some freakin contract they signed whilst wearing a freakin blindflold M8!
And the Stupid thing?, those countries would probably laugh at them and say “Do it b4 it’s 2 L8! M8!”
They wont even petition the UN to stop the embargoes for crying out load …. spineless.
WTF are you on about?
“Free trade agreements with foreign powers”
At least the Australian government seems to be beginning to understand the limits of the “free-market”:
Meanwhile, in NZ, private enterprise failed to bring about a new cable:
If we want to get what we need then we can’t leave it to the private profiteers as doing so will ensure that we won’t get it.
Pacific Fibre failed because prices were too low and excess capacity too high for them to make money…Would you like prices to rise and volumes to be restricted to subsidise them Draco?
Outsider bullshit that was their excuse The US government was making it to expensive to bring the cable ashore in California !
The regulatory authorities wanted to charge a $ 140 million a year just to link into existing networks
Got a link for that?
Actually, I’d like good international bandwidth at good prices which can only be supplied through government ownership. You may not have noticed but the restrictions are coming due to private ownership and reliance upon profiteering.
What restrictions are there? There is excess capacity.
For now but there won’t be if the FttH gets installed.
The ultimate end result of the “Internet” boom,
Those $ values get reclaimed from the only real thing involved, in this case a opticle cable.
People will always look for the reality of somethings’ existence if they indeed intend to profit or control it.
One of the adavantages of the current “Open Market” approach to our broadband is that it minimises the impact of this “The Telcos Own It” reality.
But it would limit the R&D and growth budgets.
Bloody Orphin Stephen Joyce has just handed Vodafone and Telecom the only UFB contracts taking our telco’s straight back to monopoly status after labour cracked the previous cartel!
Yeah true, but if you approach those Telcos in a certain context (i.e “Ownership”), they are oblidged to give you a wholesale rate, it’s just another link in the chain, but it’s a gauranteed one that small business can use to get a leg up.
Telecommunications is a natural monopoly and as such should be one – a state owned one. It’s how you keep prices down.
Assuming the state is civilised and transparently accountable, I’d agree with that.
But utlimately there is no difference, and what you are talking about is enforcement, which can happen in the private sector just as easily, if thought through and applied appropriately.
Of course there is a difference: where do the profits flow? To the people of NZ, or to overseas shareholders?
And enforcement is far easier if the Board and senior management act according to the priorities of the nation, not according to the priorities of private equity.
Which private corporations are civilised and transparently accountable? Perhaps they should be held to the same standard as the state?
True, but Taxes will theoretically offset that, if they are profitable and operating within civilised boundries.
Yes they should be held to those standards, which is why I say it’s about enforcement/ethic.
Taxes will recover less than 30% of their profits! What are you talking about?
That infrastructure should be publicly owned so that 100% of the monies return to our citizens.
Please tell me the enforcement mechanisms and bodies you propose to effectively do this.
Ya still have too run the company bud, in the end, it’s actually the same fiscal balance, usually painfully reached I might add.
Why should I think it through for those maggots M8!, unless you cats pay me, no way, think it through for yourselves.
Fiscally equivalent On the books is what I mean. all we need to do is increase the Tax rate.
How can it be the “same fiscal balance” when the economic surplus generated gets pumped off to overseas owners, instead of remaining in NZ?
It’s harder to enforce those standards on a private firm because of the privacy that the firm has which the state service doesn’t.
Draco, be very very careful re natural monopoly…..trust me, I understand telco networks end to end, have done since before TCPIP was in underpants. The natural monopoly bit refers to the ability to deliver to the users home / work etc…the capital cost is very high….we refer to that bit as the local loop (currently copper, soon to be fibre). That’s where the capital cost is biggest so if it is a natural monopoly it has more to do with economies of scale and who can afford to build it….hence the government here being asked to fork out.
In the network itself where natural monopolies may not exist. You can build multiple layers of service provision with different price points all dependent on the delivery type, pricing model (and cost of billing). Yes you could run this part as a monopoly but it does not need to be a natural one.
You can have multiple backbones but there’s no point as doing so just adds complexity, the expense that comes with it and unnecessarily uses more of the limited resources.
And if Telecom hadn’t been sold off the surplus that Telecom would have generated could have been put into the network and thus the government wouldn’t now be having to pay up for the FttH network.
.if you can (and we doe) have multiple backbones its hardly a natural monopoly is it? And wireless adds to that.
Did you note the extra expense that having competition adds? Did you notice the added use of limited resources?
This is basic infrastructure that we’re talking about and so having competition in it doesn’t actually provide any benefit – it just adds to the costs. And that’s what makes it a natural monopoly.
Basically, core social and economic infrastructure needs to be publicly owned and operated in the public good.
Every business and every house hold needs internet. Therefore internet supply should be considered a utility for the social good.
All it takes is a mobile phone to access the net. This is not a major social policy issue in the days of $29 browser enabled phones.
Mobile phone coverage isn’t universal.
Mobile data rates are prohibitive for many people.
Lots of internet can’t be done easily or effectively on a mobile phone.
etc.
Peter Gluckman: a dangerous man?
http://www.readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/what-dangerous-davies-could-teach-chris.html
Good post, gr, and one which I largely agree with. I’m for the integration of emotion and political perspectives, with well reasoned arguments based on verifiable evidence. It’s a fine line to tread.
Also, I think Unforgettable is disappointing. I have a long relationship with detective fiction in book and on screen, and appreciate a good story centred on a female detective. But Unforgettable really does lack heart.
I miss those pre-neoliberal, down-at-heel, rough-edged gumshoes, often in conflict with the establishment. Southland is good though.
“verifiable evidence” like distinctive skull shape, facial appearance and eye colour are associated with uber und untermenschen ?
SIR Peter Gluckman, please! He is favoured by Key (an adviser) – of course he is dangerous!
Well the blog post linked to is not flattering about Gluckman. I have no idea why RC replied to me in that way.
Prof Gluckman probably finds good evidence in his own work and others that how we are as we are can be modified by altering our genetic material.
Nothing too dangerous here surely ?
And that is the type of thing that I’m thinking about here.
Modernised somewhat but it’s what I envision should be happening in an engaged society. People getting together to brainstorm rather than leaving it to faceless corporations.
Very Good 🙂
yep.
Sadly, yet another “Are you serious ?” moment from our wise and benevolent (not) govt:
NZ is the only country inlcuded on an international panel to vote against saving endangered dolphins, including our very own Maui’s dolphin………Go figure……..
http://www.greens.org.nz/newsletters/greenweek/greenweek-dolphin-watch-paid-parental-leave-and-tim-burton-caterpillars
listning to Jim Mora now and Jane Clifton is using an interrogative at the end of every sentence.
Just like Mark Sainsbury on Close up.
this is a form of bullying that has gone on for far too long and it is about time for all the crusty old hacks (and the POAL managment) to get the boot and some sort of integrity and service re- introduced.
ewe know where these are going!
http://www.oamarumail.co.nz/news/big-mobs-go-missing/1561965/
yippee yi aye..yippie yi oh…
(been appearing like N.Z’s going all Wild, Wild West fer some time pa….)
Sheep rustling…. wonder who does the fencing.
Cracked has a handy list for rich people. Some of the tories here might find it helps them win friends and influence people…
I saw this the other day and wanted to barf.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7726694/Schwarzenegger-backs-new-politics
Arnie is about as non-partisan as the smug business analysts we have to sit through on th 6 o’clock news. Check him out providing an introduction to a series on Milton Friedman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM0MwN8BQbg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
John Key says people need to be held to account for the collapse of the CTV building,
Held to account
O really
Missed this:
And, no, the pair weren’t the people the police were looking for.
I’m sure those cops were just doing their job.
They were probably the wrong people, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
(non-Pakeha, in a poor area, in 2012)