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The Standard

Open mike 30/01/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 30th, 2013 - 99 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

99 comments on “Open mike 30/01/2013”

  1. The Chairman 1

    There are no official figures kept on foreign ownership of houses and there are currently no restrictions.

    Estate agents, developers and buyers have complained that wealthy Chinese buyers are ramping up property prices..

    The Greens and NZ First have called for restrictions. Key accused them of racism.

    What’s Labour’s position?

    • freedom 1.1

      ummm, ask Labour?

      • The Chairman 1.1.1

        Seeing as affordable housing is their leading policy, one would assume they would have a strong position, utilizing the opportunity, maintaining the momentum, and capitalizing by showing decisiveness and unity with the Greens..

        Unfortunately, when a strong and clear position is required, they’re indecisive.

        It seems they need to talk about it.

        Poor form.

    • millsy 1.2

      I dont know any other country that allows unfettered overseas ownership to the extent that we do..

      Perhaps Somalia?

      • Bill 1.2.1

        Hmm. I don’t know of any country that doesn’t.

        What comes to my mind is Wales where there was an ‘unfortunate’ spate of house fires in the 80s and for ‘some strange reason’ those houses that ‘caught’ fire all seemed to be second homes/holiday houses owned predominantly by English people. (It may be continuing, I don’t know).

        But do you imagine for one moment that if all of the English owners of second houses in Wales had quit their housing investments that prices would have dropped and the availablity of homes risen for Welsh people and others living in Wales? Well, of course not. And even if the housing stock was reserved for only those people living in Wales, then simple market dynamics would have yet again concentrated ownership in the hands of a relative few.

        And it’s the same here, whether we’re talking houses or farms or whatever. And so I tend to agree with those charges of xenaphobia when they are directed against those who would niavely hold that everything would be okay if only those pesky foriegners – and disturbingly – especially those pesky foreigners we can readily identify by sight, and who come from a different cultural tradition, and who just happen to be associated with a nationality that is fast becoming the ‘official’ enemy of western (ie, our) states.

        If property prices are being ramped up because richer people are buying multiple houses then the solution doesn’t lie in vilifying one identifyable section of those owners of muliple houses but in dooing something concrete that is aimed fairly and squarely at every single last one of them regardless of their cultural or national origins.

        • The Chairman 1.2.1.1

          The Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey rates housing as ‘severely’ unaffordable at 5.1 times annual household income.

          Auckland is the least affordable market, with a median multiple of 6.7.times annual household incomes..

          It’s not NZ low incomes that are sustaining these ‘severely’ unaffordable prices

          Supply and demand. The amount of local wealth is limited. Opening NZ up to affluent offshore investors increases buyer demand., pricing locals out of the market.

          • Bill 1.2.1.1.1

            Concentration of wealth rather than the over-all amount of wealth is the problem. And while I can understand an argument that holds prices have gone up even further than they otherwise would have due to wealthy over seas investors/buyers, that doesn’t mean that a market accessable only by domestic buyers would make much of a toss of a difference.

            There is a demographic that can afford to buy houses and who can use previous purchases as collateral on further purchases. They exist and would persist even in the absence of foreign buyers and the market would merely be concentrated in their hands rather than the hands of them and foreigners.

            • Colonial Weka 1.2.1.1.1.1

              The difference is the exchange rate. The Brits were buying land were at one stage and easily outbidding the locals, and thus the property prices went up, quite massively in some cases. That was with immigrants, but you can see the same dynamic in places like Queenstown, where large amounts of houses are owned offshore. Stewart Island is another place where foreign buyers changed property pricing exponentially.

              So, sure, there are problems anyway, and only certain NZers could afford to buy property. But now houses are too expensive for even those people.

              If I lived in Auckland instead of the SI I’d no doubt be talking about the Chinese more than the Brits or Americans ;-) It’s a tricky conversation to be had, because obviously there are distinct racism against Asians issues in NZ. And yet, the overseas ownership issue, and immigration issues are real.

              Did the GP mention the Chinese specifically?

            • The Chairman 1.2.1.1.1.2

              Vast inequality and the negative implications of the concentration of wealth is a global phenomenon.

              The problem with the local demographic that you highlighted is further exacerbated by allowing unrestricted foreign ownership of houses.

              Moreover, the much needed investment returns (rents) largely leave our economy and head offshore, further adding to our fiscal shortfall and economic slowdown.

            • The Chairman 1.2.1.1.1.3

              Additionally, Bill.

              There are numerous issues driving up the price of property.

              Limiting foreign investment, hence immensely reducing buyer demand, would vastly slowdown the price increase.

              The reasons behind the problem with the local demographic that you highlighted are varied.

              Investor distrust in the sharemarket drives many investors into property

              With interest rates staying low and around $110b invested in bank deposits, that problem is compounded with investors seeking higher yields

              Bank lending, that finances many investors, also comes under the spotlight.

              Addressing foreign investment is merely one in a list of required initiatives to genuinely deal with the problem. But where is Labour on the matter?

          • CV - Real Labour 1.2.1.1.2

            Supply and demand. The amount of local wealth is limited. Opening NZ up to affluent offshore investors benefiting from economies where money printing is occurring increases buyer demand., pricing locals out of the market.

            If I may?

            basically NZers are stupid enough to exchange our real local wealth for overseas printed fiat currency. Not a good deal.

    • Poission 1.3

      Key accused them of racism.

      Key is subject to both federal capital gains and Hawaiian non resident property tax of property tax of 15%.

  2. millsy 2

    ‘Callaghan Innovation’ comes into being on Friday…

    Anyone know what it is supposed to do?

    • karol 2.1

      Good Question:

      Another grand scheme by Innovation Minister, Steven Joyce: Callagahan innovation.

      On November 14, Science and Innovation Minister Steven Joyce announced the renaming of the Advanced Technology Institute as Callaghan Innovation.

      Callaghan Innovation is one of the Government’s key priorities to build a stronger, more competitive economy, and was a major recommendation of the independent Powering Innovation report, which looked at how to boost the growth of firms in the manufacturing and services sector.

      The purpose of Callaghan Innovation is to help get New Zealand’s most innovative ideas out of the lab and into the marketplace more quickly.

      Callaghan Innovation will have operations in Auckland, Wellington (including Hutt Valley) and Canterbury regions.

      It will help high-tech firms become more competitive by better connecting them with the expertise and facilities that exist both within Callaghan Innovation and across New Zealand’s Crown Research Institutes, universities, polytechnics, and other research organisations.

      More on it at the above link.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3

    There used to be a word for forced unpaid work—slavery. Rehabilitation should be an automatic part of the prison system not an exploitative add on.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10862190

    • Dr Terry 3.1

      TG – Exactly! (Maybe they will be paid, but it will be a pittance I am sure).
      Rehabilitation? How is it that National got to hear that word? Kind of rolls around their tongue, feels good. National knows and understands only one word on prisoners (and beneficiaries) and that is Punishment!

    • rosy 3.2

      The Herald: (quoting Key)
      – Up to 1400 inmates will be working 40 hours a week – without pay
      – Inmates at Rolleston Prison had already begun 40-hour weeks in response to a demand for labour for the rebuild of Christchurch.
      -Asked whether working prisons were a form of cheap labour, Mr Key said: “Not really. There already are work programmes which are … sometimes controversial because they take work … off the private sector

      From Stuff: (quoting Tolley)
      – The scheme is already under way in Christchurch’s Rolleston prison, which has a contract with Housing New Zealand to refurbish earthquake-struck properties.
      -denied prisoners would be providing cheap labour for Corrections, pointing out that Release to Work participants get market wages.

      Not singing from the same hymn sheet it seems, and it looks like Tolley is the one who has the briefing notes.

  4. Te Reo Putake 4

    More on Timbuktu. The BBC and other news outlets are reporting that it now seems possible that staff from the two libraries may have hidden substantial parts of the collections during the occupation. Here’s hoping.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/29/heres-what-was-in-the-torched-timbuktu-library/

    • CV - Real Labour 4.1

      Gutsy brave librarians (HEH!), fingers crossed indeed :D

      • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1

        but wait, there’s more-
        (sadly air pollution in Beijing is “beyond index” and that is all that was clear in the Herald today)

        Dom (inic Crossan) Rules Daily (well, maybe not the editorials, but that’s a matter of opinion…)
        (yet that former school teacher and i, we see eye to eye, whats a dignified way to live, and die; me and you and a dog named Blue)
        on the subject of Education; “Govt funding not enough to provide even the basics”
        Principles? “struggling to meet 21st C expectations”, cos “IT-man that sucks up money” (maybe MS are really making vacuum cleaners)
        MoBIE- workplace health and safety rules not working-Play
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby_play (The- Everlasting- Sky is Broken; My Weakness? Natural Blues) Ministry of Primary Industries finally advises of warmer climate change predicting
        More Floods-More Droughts-and Productivity Pests
        and, and, Cancer is mutating from a “terminal” to “chronic” dis ease; can now “carry on” business “for a good decade or more”. (resistance to drugs will be a Major Growth industry Pharmacy) while the U.S economy vital stats are Banking, Building and Auto Ambulances.
        A military vizier to the pharoah advises that the Egyptian State may collapse (Spinxcters clenched)

        Holy Moses! (Travelin’ Soldier; now there’s some Southern candy.man!)

    • ad 4.2

      Timbuktu Name of the Rose redux!

      Peter Calder in the NZHerald today speaks of why it is so necessary not to get rid of libraries.

      I like all the gadgets, but my home library and study is my analogue retreat from the world. I am aprt of the long tail of those who will never give up analogue preference for reading in long form.

      • CV - Real Labour 4.2.1

        Got your library on Kindle? Did you know Amazon can burn it down at the click of a button from 5000km away?

        http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/10/23/why-did-amazon-close-a-womans-account-and-delete-all-her-kindle-books/

        • fatty 4.2.1.1

          Is it just me, or do all major corporations that could suffer from pirating repeatedly screw their customers to the point that pirating is the only option?

          • King Kong 4.2.1.1.1

            Not consuming their product is always an option.

            • fatty 4.2.1.1.1.1

              good idea…tell that woman to get in her time machine, go back and not buy a Kindle.

              Hang on, time machines don’t exist…bad idea

            • CV - Real Labour 4.2.1.1.1.2

              Not consuming their product is always an option.

              It’s the way of the future, as you have correctly identified, KK

          • Rogue Trooper 4.2.1.1.2

            fatty, Excellent work squeezing the pseudo-“righteousness” out of the “priest”; they clearly had not heard there is sin and didn’t seem benevolent to their compatriots (their thoughts were revealed, maybe someone slipped them a roofie in their Jungle Juice to cloud their future draping)

            The world exists through three things- The Law, worship and beneficence.
            -Simeon The Just (Descended into sublime curved-Space)

      • Rogue Trooper 4.2.2

        it was an Excellent article ad, imho

    • muzza 4.3

      From yesterdays tragedy, to todays hope!

      That’s the name of a book by Carroll Quigley – Maybe read it some time!

    • joe90 4.4

      Here’s a BBC documentary about Timbuktu’s libraries, including the one that was burned.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Heh_91lhenA

  5. bad12 5

    Slippery the Prime Minister spends up large on money He aint got and has a laugh at the Supreme Court while He is at it,

    Missed due to the enthralling tantrum befitting a 4 year old as Slippery the Prime Minister lost His rag going from making a ‘State of the Nation’ speech to yelling a torrent of abuse at the combined opposition,(brought about so rumor has it by an opposition MP taunting the Prime Minister on His way into the Chamber yesterday over whether or not the dead piece of animal fur that covers Slippery’s bald spot is really made from the soft hairs gently plucked from the anal crevice of a blind donkey called Brucie),

    The little gem that He,(Slippery), plans this year to spend 800 million bucks from the sale of Mighty River Power into the economy,

    What a grand economic vision, spending money that you aint got from assets that aint sold and where there’s every chance that the Supreme Court will rule against you in a case involving the small fact that someone else might have prior rights to the water flowing down that Mighty River,

    Some might call that confidence, more to the point tho it looks like a confidence trick being played by the Slippery little Shyster on us all,

    I suppose that when the Supreme Court in it’s wisdom rules that yes Maori do have prior existing rights to the waters of that Mighty River the Slippery little Shyster will simply borrow the 800 million He plans on spending from the sale proceeds to add to the 42 billion His Government has already borrowed in 4 years as a tax against future generations…

  6. bad12 6

    What did having me sitting up and watching with interest yesterday during the ‘State of the Nation’ speeches was John Banks when the cameras caught Him ‘in shot’ while focusing on the Prime Minister,

    I have to ask, is He(Banks), clinically dead and medical science is keeping some form of resemblance of life apparent???

    Banks gave every impression of being the ‘wooden indian’, not a facial tic,neither a smile nor grimace and nary a hear here as the Prime Minister gave the nation His impression of a 4 year old in the midst of a toy tossing episode,

    Banks tho seems to have taken to a very good display of anal retention perhaps fearful of spraying something putrid like fear into His diapers at the thought of His upcoming date with the judiciary in the form of a private prosecution laid at the Wellington District Court,

    More to the point i believe tho would be that the word He(Banks) got from Slippery the Prime Minister was that of ‘dear john’ if that private prosecution in the Wellington District Court enters a conviction against you, bye bye,

    Hey i know,how bout ‘Banksie’ for Mayor of Auckland, any takers??? ha ha ha didn’t think so…

    • just saying 6.1

      I think he may have overdone the botox.

      • bad12 6.1.1

        Lolz they must have done a Lance Armstrong on Him, He was wheeled out befor PrimeNews to blather on about something forgettable tonight his mouth appeared to be moving tho i cannot say the same about His brain…

  7. xtasy 7

    Paula Bennett’s and the Key led government’s most draconian, mean spirited and punitive welfare reforms in New Zealand’s recent history, are now increasingly being taken note of at the other side of the globe.

    Yes, ‘Black Triangle’ organisation and others there, who have been and are fighting the ruthless benefit regime put in place there, just having been tightened even further under the Cameron led government, have taken note of the concerns agencies and advocates here in NZ raise.

    New Zealand is being watched, and this is good.

    See the newest on CCS, what amongst others stuff.co reported, and what is being quoted and shared there:

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/01/11/new-zealand-british-style-work-tests-concern-tests-were-developed-by-disability-expert-prof-sir-mansel-aylward/

    http://www.politicus.org.uk/news/new-zealand-%E2%80%98britishstyle-work-tests-concern%E2%80%99-tests-were-developed-by-disability-%E2%80%98expert%E2%80%99-prof-sir-mansel-aylward_1833

    Also of interest soon:

    http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/tt5jz/panorama–the-great-disability-scam—panorama

    So Professor Mansel Aylward and his promoted tough work capacity testing, that Bennett seems to be so fond of, is going to be scrutinised “internationally”, while Bennett claims there is “international medical evidence” for the new approach to push sick and disabled back into work being justified and good.

    Her speech is full of one sided propaganda and pseudo science, referring to this bizarre “bio-psycho social model” Prof. Aylward and a handful other UK “experts” thought out, and are presenting as “international scientific evidence” (strangly almost only from them, in the UK):

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-medical-professionals

  8. Huginn 8

    Growing Up Poor (2012)
    A two-part documentary from the BBC following teenagers dealing with the pressures of growing up with one similarity – they are all surviving on under £10 a day

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pwyvx

  9. Colonial Weka 9

    Ok, so the trools are out in force today, but do we really have to give them a place at the dinner table?

  10. just saying 10

    LPrent, earlier today (11ish), when moving between posts at the Standard, I twice ended up back in time with the Standard as of the 24th of January. Just as I was about to tell you the phone rang, and then life intervened, so it has taken me until now to mention it.

    The reason I do is that the last time I was transported back in The Standard time, there was something quite serious wrong. It seems like everything is fine, so hopefully that won’t be the case today.

  11. AmaKiwi 11

    A very interesting read and possible Standard conversation:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/economics-blog/2013/jan/27/ultimate-davos-debate-marx-keynes

    It is an imaginary debate between the major modern economists: Keynes, Marx, Friedman, and Schumacher. Each offers their perspective on the present world economy. It also applies to the NZ economy and our politicians.

    Who do you agree with? Disagree with? Where do our leaders seem to be?

    • fatty 11.1

      interesting…

      Here’s a summary of what they would say…

      Keynes: Shit, this going nowhere
      Friedman: This is working…I was right when I said it’d be more efficient than slavery.
      Schumacher: Oh dear…they went with greed. I told them it would end like this.
      Marx: You fuckin morons, I told you this would fail 100 years ago

  12. karol 12

    Weird. The first Skynet copyright decision…. fined for illegally downloading/uploading 3 songs!

    • McFlock 12.1

      I get the impression that the respondent made a half-hearted attempt at an “intent” defense, but didn’t want a massive fine to result from a full denial.

      • karol 12.1.1

        But such small fry. I was somehow expecting the first decisions about someone who has uploaded/downloaded massive amounts.

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          True. It might be a strategy to scare and intimidate, or get some “per song” case history before cracking down on massive pirates (if they really exist, of course).

          • Jackal 12.1.1.1.1

            McFlock

            It might be a strategy to scare and intimidate…

            Certainly does seem to be something not quite right about the case. What it’s all really about though is provability…

            If you want to use content that’s not yours, it’s a bit of a no-brainer that you shouldn’t go and search for it using google and then download it from a public site with poker adverts or what not…

            Find one of the well known file sharing applications and use it, particularly those apps that retain anonymity.

            Most sharing apps aren’t accessible to tracking and despite what the government wants you to believe, ISP’s aren’t very well set up to track P2P data sharing.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              I’d believe that when I see it.

              They might just have been testing the waters before going through their main target lists.

  13. He, Parata is in trouble.

    She has claimed that Ministry of Education staff losing their wages through server problems is “karma”. Obviously in her flea sized National issue brain it is the whole department’s fault that Novopay has stuffed up and she has no responsibility.

    She can now be described as the best communicator of reasons why we have to get rid of this Government. I do not think that Crosby Textor’s consultants can spin this around.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/parata-blames-karma-after-ministry-education-staff-miss-pay-day-5329868

    • fenderviper 13.1

      Oh yes what a great communicator this brainless woman is, she’s gotta go!

    • bad12 13.2

      Yes barely a day into the Parliamentary year and Parata is snidely at it again, it’s the one reason why i was hoping that Slippery the Prime Minister would keep Her in His Cabinet,

      Hekia an opposition asset every-time She chooses to open Her mouth…

  14. Rogue Trooper 14

    well strung shiny one.
    May be up to 3000 Samuels “humanely” put down at the NZP; SOE gotta make a profit; that’s M-C
    law. Now, of course (Not Guaranteeing Officially) there will be a Variety of “administrative costs” sponsoring these wee deserving dears; I know, how about we just help our neighbour (and their children) directly, be our sister and brothers’ keeper as Metiria so biblically put it. At our Station on the Way a garage sale is held and the items donated are, wait for it, Free, yes Free (a once in an Autumn offer, annually).cos in A Forest A Play For Today is Primary.
    Global and Local? Power to The People, Right On!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvlBS4PMF0

    -John Lenin

  15. QoT 15

    Interesting coincidence: Russel Norman asks Key a primary oral question on climate change; Jenny doesn’t comment on the Open Mike of the day.

    • CV - Real Labour 15.1

      I’m pretty sure that Norman was ordered by his coal industry sponsors to do this in order to throw us off the scent.

    • karol 15.2

      And yesterday Turei included climate change in her debate speech – particularly the support needed for our Pacific Island neighbours taking the brunt of the changes.

      • bad12 15.2.1

        Shhh don’t tell anyone the Green Party have a specific set of policies to address climate change, they are just waiting for Jenni’s permission befor they release them,

        That’s a bit cruel ae??? come back jenni your attitude to the Green Party is ok…

    • Jenny 15.3

      Thanks for bringing this to my attention Qot. Much appreciated.

      You are right this is a damn good speech. Keep up the good work Russel.

      The only thing is, Key skewered him over the Emissions Trading Scheme. The fact of the matter is that the Pollution Trading Scheme, as it should rightly be called, is a Labour Party and National Government supported scheme to let the polluters off the hook. If I remember the debate properly, (and I do), at the time the Green Party had severe reservations about the PTS. Reservations that have been proved correct.

      Now is the perfect to rip the veil off who really supports this dirty scheme.

      Key in his reply, threatened Russel Norman that if the climate debate comes up in the election he will use the Pollution Trading Scheme to flay the Green Party.

      The Green Party need to answer fire with fire.

      And expose the Nats for their support for this scheme, that lets polluters off the hook to freely pollute at will. And dumps the bill on the taxpayers.

      I call on the Green Party to put up private members bill calling for the complete repeal of the falsely named, Emissions Trading Scheme.

      That should do it.

      Then we can have the real debate on how to concretely cut back on our CO2 emissions. Instead of being a “fast follower” let’s be a shining example to the world.

      The bill: The Green Party calls on parliament to completely abolish the Emissions Trading Scheme. the purpose of this bill to clear the ground for parliament to discuss a more proper and equable way to concretely cut our CO2 emissions.

      Let’s have this debate out. Right here. And ritght now, and during the elections. Without this terrible charade, clouding the issue.

      Whether it is the National, or Labour Party version of the Pollution Trading Scheme both versions permit Business As Usual to carry on regardless. (Which was the intention).

      Such an initiative if taken up by the Green Party caucus will earn them banner headlines and the respect of all sections of society. (Except probably the fossil fuel industry barons, who love this scheme.)

      • handle 15.3.1

        “That should do it”

        Yes, politics is as easy as you say it is.

        • Jenny 15.3.1.1

          Politics especially for those who do it in parliament is not easy. They are beset from all sides by all sorts of pressures from colleagues and from lobbyists and advisors and experts andn media and make over artists and flatterers and glad handers, all leaning on them not to make a fuss and to ignore their ideals and go with the flow, to not break from the herd. It is not easy to resist this pressure, even in your own interests. This pressure is so intense and relentless that some politicians are often left wondering. even to themselves Why on earth did I let myself go along with that?

  16. bad12 16

    Fletcher Building pop Slippery’s bubble tonight on OneNews, of course WE can says the Fletcher Building spokesperson when asked if it can build the houses the Labour party say will cost 300 grand,

    There are savings that WOULD be made from the economies of scale of building such houses under one contract says the bloke from Fletchers,

    Theres further savings that WOULD be made from designing out of such buildings unnecessary materials and being able to swap cheaper materials for more expensive ones in the design,

    Cannot build 300,000 dollar houses Slippery??? i call bullshit on that and Slippery on tonight’s OneNews was forced to make a sniveling back down on His previous statements when shown the tape of Fletcher building saying that such a build on such a budget was entirely possible…

    • bad12 16.1

      While i am on the subject great work from Labour’s Annette King in defending the “KiwiBuild” program +1 for making the Slippery little Shyster we have as Prime Minister eat humble pie for earlier having shot His mouth off that ‘KiwiBuilt’ couldn’t be built on those numbers,

      The piece on OneNews tonight was great on a number of levels as well as for the Kiwibuild, and i think that as a campaign piece you only need show that news clip over and over in every town-hall in New Zealand,i would tho ask you Annette to compare what You said on the news this evening with what Dave Shearer said on the same subject the other day,

      Draw your own conclusions but please consider that it is just that which has got most of the commenters here at the Standard fired up about Dave Shearer…

  17. Just watched David Cunliffe on tv in the parliament debate, he was articulate,spoke with
    meaning and sincerely, Labour under Cunliffe would streak ahead in the next election,if
    only he was given a chance,but i guess those within the clique inside caucus have the
    last say, an opportunity lost.

    • karol 17.1

      Thanks for the heads up. And it’s on YT now.

      • just saying 17.1.1

        Ta. Watched it.
        Yup, he’ll stand for leader if caucus calls for a vote on Monday.

        • CV - Real Labour 17.1.1.1

          You reckon? I don’t think he will, he’s been very clear that he’s not challenging. Time back in the home electorate with his young family, no pressure to prepare and present policy shit, out of the media scrum, sounds like a good career shift to me.

          • just saying 17.1.1.1.1

            Yup. Subtext.
            May need to be called on ….in the unlikely event that the caucus votes for sanity….

      • Olwyn 17.1.2

        Thanks for putting it up Karol; a very heartening speech.

      • JK 17.1.3

        Thanks Karol. Yes – that speech was well worth listening to.

      • Jenny 17.1.4

        A great speech. My only reservation, where once hot on the topic, Cunliffe never once mentioned the words “climate change”.

        Surely the government’s inability to address this issue is the biggest failing of all. And in fact is the policy where National is most weakest.

        My question to David Cunliffe is this;

        I know that in your speech you alluded to the government’s withdrawal from the Kyoto Accord, but why did you only hint at the matter?

        Why did you never mention the words “climate change”?

        David, are you constrained in your comments on this issue?

        Why couldn’t you say those two words? maybe include them in a short paragraph?

        “This government’s lack of action in the face of climate change, which surely is the single most threatening calamity to affect the future of our grandchildren and the world they will inherit, is climate change. This National Government by refusing to act against this existential threat is condemning our children and children’s children to a severely degraded environment where the safety and stability and beauty of this world which we all enjoy today will be forever denied. A world in which the natural climate necessary to sustain human society will be denied to our grandchildren forever, by the selfish inaction of our political leaders today.

        I hope I am wrong and that you are not constrained from challenging the government over their role in continuing with polices that worsen climate change. Or for that matter your own party for contemplating continuing the same polices when they are again the government of this country.

    • Te Reo Putake 17.2

      I noted the line about David Shearer’s Labour Party. No doubt now the phoney war is over.

      Edit: Phonies war?

      • karol 17.2.1

        He was toeing the Shearer Labour Party lines, but doing it so much better. That’s how a leader SHOULD speak. He was doing the “hands on” line, and “change”. And he had some little extras in there: talking about listening to the people, and a bottom up government, not top down as under Key’s government.

        The speech started off low key, then wound up to something sounding very prime ministerial. Cunlifffe is such a sharp, clear and articulate speaker… and passionate.

        • CV - Real Labour 17.2.1.1

          Yes Cunliffe does pretty well for a backbencher. Certainly a potential prospect for future promotion to an Associate portfolio spot??

          • Jenny 17.2.1.1.1

            Only, if he keeps up the self censorship.

            • CV - Real Labour 17.2.1.1.1.1

              You sorta need to relax. The end of the world may be coming but you’re allowed to sit back with a G&T and just enjoy the spectacle.

              • Jenny

                Is this Labour Party policy, or just your own personal view?

                • CV - Real Labour

                  Yes I get sign off on all Labour Party policy, what do you want done next?

                • CV - Real Labour

                  Also I should add that Labour Party policy specifies a good working class bourbon and coke as the drink of choice, not a G&T.

                  • Jenny

                    CV, defines what he sees as the difference between Labour and National.

                  • Jenny

                    CV-Real Labour’s attempt to trivialise the threat of climate change, is of course, being carried out with a deadly serious purpose.

                    Not being able to defend the Labour Party policy for doing nothing and continuing with BAU. CV-RL attempts to make it all a big joke. A cover for political irresponsibility and cowardice.

                    Personally:

                    “I’d Rather Fight Like Hell”

        • Jenny 17.2.1.2

          He was toeing the Shearer Labour Party lines

          karol

          I agree, particularly in letting the government off the hook on their record over climate change.

      • mickysavage 17.2.2

        So TRP how do you propose that activists sort this out? Your comment was rather cheap. How do the activists reunite the party?

        • Polish Pride 17.2.2.1

          It is not the activists that need to reunite it. It is the politicians that need to start listening to the people
          then based on what they hear from the people put together a short,medium and long term plan that can capture peoples imagination. A plan that shows them a vision for the future. A plan that they can see working themselves. Once in power (if they get they get there) they need to be bold and be brave they actually need to lead the country to a happier future.

        • Te Reo Putake 17.2.2.2

          Demand policy. Democratising the leadership is the beginning of the process, not the end.

          What are our priories in Government? How do we convince enough of the middle to move left without significant compromise?

          For mine, it will also come down to what we can afford after Dunnokeyo has finished skinning us alive. It simply may not be affordable to get our assets back in the short term, short of a Chavezian popular movement. Key will blight this country the way Muldoon did; handing over the keys to a husk of an economy.

          Speaking of the asset sales, its not to late to get signatures and it would be good to have a few extra to cover double ups and non-registered voters. Take enrolmernt forms with you, too. That’s the next big challenge; getting ‘em on the roll. The Nats do not want the rolls to get any larger and the exodus to Oz hurts our (LP, GP, Mana) vote.

          Sorry ’bout the tone of the earlier comment, but I thought it was worth noting. Great speech. I reckon Cunliffe is going to have a bit of licence over the next two years to help mobilise the troops.

          I’d be interested to see Standardistas policy ideas (and funding models?). What’s in, what’s out.

    • rosy 17.3

      I could just about weep for that loss of talent. He speaks what I believe, with greater vision and skill than anyone else on the Labour benches.

  18. Rogue Trooper 18

    btw C.V ;) , There is only one Law giver and Judge; the One who is able to save (Seek) and Destroy.
    Now Listen (Oh we’re Steppin Out, We’re gonna turn around, Gonna turn around once) you who say, Today or Tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money. Why? You do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

    11:26 People curse the man who hoards grain, yet blessing crowns him who is willing to sell.
    11:28 Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, yet the righteous will thrive like a green leaf.

    -D.C (wonder if they’re ski-ing Unturnwasser?)

  19. xtasy 19

    So it is clear, here we go AGAIN!

    JACINDA Ardern goes on only about the lack of jobs being the issue with the draconian, punitive, hostile and totally unreasonable welfare reforms that Bennett and the Key led government push for:

    http://jacinda.co.nz/index.php/2013/01/english-desperate-if-failed-welfare-reforms-are-his-answer/

    So it is the lack of jobs that is the issue? That is where National is supposed to be criticised and blamed? So nothing about truly sick and disabled going to be forced into harsh, severe, inhumane work capacity testing, like they have done in the UK for years now?

    It is not relevant what UK advocates and support organisations of beneficiaries and disabled have to say, shouting it out loud???

    http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/01/11/new-zealand-british-style-work-tests-concern-tests-were-developed-by-disability-expert-prof-sir-mansel-aylward/

    Just one bloody example, dear JACINDA, how fancy your name sounds!? What do you stand for, where do you really stand, what is your position, where is your bloody voice? Is this for bloody real? We are going to get work tests introduced under Bennett that led to over 1,100 deaths in the UK in much of 2011 alone. So Jacinda just distracts again and talks about child welfare issues, as if sick and invalids and others suffering have no voice, or justification to be heard?

    What about Dr David Bratt, the Labour introduced madcap hardline fan of Dr Mansel Aylward, the hard line inventor of the draconian work ability tests in the UK? Is it a TABU for anyone to raise this? That Labour hired a total hardliner, comparing beneficiaries to drug addicts?

    http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/GP%20CME/Friday/C1%201515%20Bratt-Hawker.pdf

    http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/2012/Fri_DaVinci_1400_Bratt_Medical%20Certificates%20are%20Clinical%20Instruments%20too%20-%20June%202012.pdf

    So maybe you will be happy to work with Bennett and the Nats, create a Grand Coalition, bring in eugenics and also some day the good old work camps?

    I hear Key wants prisoners to work 24/7 for a start, so that is a goal of sorts, is it not?

    I am sure it will catch on with the large number of Kiwi rednecks and “battlers”, so they will vote Nats or a hard line Labour lot in, to get this implemented. Bring in forced Labour, that is what “Labour” may mean in future, for those that cannot comply?!

    Oh, I hate you all, I hate you!!!

    • McFlock 19.1

      JACINDA Ardern goes on only about the lack of jobs being the issue with the draconian, punitive, hostile and totally unreasonable welfare reforms that Bennett and the Key led government push for

      Not quite.

      She was pointing out that the finance minister is an idiot because he thinks welfare reforms will lead to fiscal recovery, when the macro-scale growth problem we have is that 7% of the workforce is officially unemployed. God knows what the true rate is.

    • rosy 19.2

      Agree that there is not enough focus on the dreadful impacts of the reforms, but in a short press release Jacinda did try to cover a bit of this ground:

      “It seems then that Mr English’s stated priority of ‘bedding in’ these reforms basically hinges entirely around reducing access to support, an approach that is not only wrong but that has been discredited in the UK where Paula Bennett seems to be gleaning most of her ideas from.

      “National is prepared to spend at least $520 million on these harmful welfare reforms rather than on job creation and removing barriers to getting work. That, in my book, is a mis-directed spend,” Jacinda Ardern says.

      ‘wrong’, ‘discredited’ and ‘harmful’ reforms. In the context of a 6-sentence press release from the spokesperson for social development and children it’s not enough focus, but it’s not terrible either.

    • the Al1en 19.3

      ” dear JACINDA, how fancy your name sounds!”

      I’m not sure her name has anything to do with anything.
      The most left wing social democratic humanitarian I’ve ever known was Farquar Hubert Muddlethorpe Billingsworth Trotsky Smithe.

      :lol:

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