Opposing TPP

10 comments on “Opposing TPP ”

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1. fatty 1

   7 December 2012 at 1:01 pm

   Thanks for this post Karol, still trying to get my head around this.
   Some other links here…the past two episodes of Citizen A have been worth a watch. Bomber has had Jane Kelsey on, as well as other new guests. The 29th Nov & the 6th Dec episodes have focused solely on the TPP – stream them here
   Also, the last issue of Werewolf focuses on the TPP…Gordon Campbell & Co doing their thing
   • karol 1.1

     7 December 2012 at 1:10 pm

     Thanks, fatty.  Yes I linked to werewolf and Citizen A in a previous post.  But it’s always good to remind people.  There’s very good (and scary) stuff there and in the latest Citizen A.

     It is very frustrating that the MSM is largely ignoring the negotiations and related debates and protests. 
2. mike 2

   7 December 2012 at 2:04 pm

   That the MSM has failed to explain the importance of this event to the public says a lot about our 6pm infotainment, and about its dumbed-down audience.

   Key: “The people who are opposed sometimes are just opposed to free trade and live in a world that doesn’t want to see New Zealand intersecting globally with the rest of the world.”

   [time wasting rant]Firstly, spot the stating as fact that those opposed to the TPPA are also (sometimes) opposed to y and z when there’s no reason to assume that someone opposed to the TPPA would also be opposed to ‘free trade’ and ‘intersecting globally with the rest of the world’.

   Secondly, even a protester is also opposed to ‘free trade’ and/or ‘intersecting globally with the rest of the world’ what does that have to do with a discussion about the validity of their concerns about the TPPA? The protesters have issues regarding the TPPA more specific than simply being against ‘free trade’ itself. Even if (some) protesters are protesting simply because they don’t like the ‘free trade’ aspects of the TPPA, the criticism makes no sense. It’s like saying “Oh people who say they don’t like The X Factor are only saying that because they don’t like mindless TV shows.” Well… yeah…

   Thirdly, the implication that being opposed to free trade is obviously a dubious position that can be dealt with with a dismissive throwaway statement such as this. Anyone who bothers to look into ‘free trade’ learns quickly that ‘free trade’ does not mean ‘fair trade’.

   Fourthly, the use of the qualifier ‘sometimes’ renders the whole statement meaningless. How many is ‘some’? 50%? 1%? 1? It’s a weasel way of trying do dodge my first point. I can say people who x also sometimes y and no one can prove me wrong. Let’s try. For example I could say that I think, (note that Key didn’t even add an ‘in my opinion’, only a statement as if fact), TPPA protesters sometimes smoke pot, or watch porn, or like hurting small animals. I’d be entitled to my opinion, and you couldn’t prove me wrong. As such, it would a meaningless statement just like Key’s. Nevertheless, I’m going to go ahead and offer my opinion that NAct politicians sometimes willingly and happily allow the NZ population to be butt-fucked by US corporate interests in exchange for the advancement of their own personal ambitions.

   Fifthly, ‘ intersecting globally with the rest of the world’ is incoherent jibberish.

   This verbal diarrhea flows from our dear leader’s tongue like beer from the bottle on a daily basis. Does our fearless media scoop up the poo and rub it all over his smiley shiny face? No, they copy and paste his soothing authoritative words, press the send button, and make it home in time to watch The X Factor.[/time wasting rant]
   • karol 2.1

     7 December 2012 at 2:31 pm

     Wrapped up in that muddle of words that you dissect very well, mike, is the subtext/dog whistle, that anti-TPP protesters are opposed to free trade because they are unrealistically isolationist.
     • mike 2.1.1

       7 December 2012 at 3:20 pm

       Sure, if he had said ‘unrealistically isolationist’ instead of ‘intersecting globally with the rest of the world’ I would have spared him my ‘incoherent jibberish’ criticism.

       Indeed that’s the perception Key is trying to sell about the protesters. That they are backwards thinkers who can’t see the bigger picture about what’s best for NZ.

       In fact he uses this one a lot. “They just don’t get it.” Not that he bothers to actually answer any objections at all other than to say $$$ = jobs. He moans about how he hasn’t been able to make the public understand that the asset sales are good. It’s an “I’m the boss I don’t have time to explain all the details, I’m wearing the suit so just trust me and swallow what I say” angle. It’s an observed manipulation technique of corporate psychopaths in positions of power. It’s an obedience to authority thang a la Stanley Milgram. The subtext to the subtext is that he is the smartest guy in the room. I’ll try a simplistic equation of my own: arrogance + spin = John Key

       Well done trying to keep this in the spotlight Karol.
3. Jim in Tokyo 3

   7 December 2012 at 4:25 pm

   A few gems from today’s insidetrade.com TPP update (trial subscription required):

   Observers See Increasing Link Between Dairy And PHARMAC Disciplines
   Posted: December 6, 2012

   “If the U.S. were to demand patent protections such as patent term extensions, which New Zealand currently does not observe, it would require changes to the country’s patent laws. Sources here said this would face considerable opposition in parliament, especially from the minority Labor coalition, which does not want to see such protections lead to rising drug prices as cheaper generic drugs are being prevented from entering the market sooner.”

   (and a few paragraphs later…)

   “Making changes to PHARMAC has emerged as a hot-button issue in New Zealand, but such changes would most likely occur through regulation and would not require the government to undergo the politically hazardous process of forcing legislative changes to comply with the TPP, these sources said.”
4. AmaKiwi 4

   7 December 2012 at 11:45 pm

   When a government of any color imposes laws the majority oppose, it is a dictatorship.

   NZ is a parliamentary dictatorship.

   This crap won’t end until we get binding veto referendums.

   How would it work? When parliament passes a bill we have 3 months to collect 25,000 signatures to force a binding referendum. If we get the 25,000 signatures, a binding referendum is held.

   If the majority votes “yes” in the referendum, the bill becomes law. If they vote “no” in the referendum, the bill is dead.

   Say it loud: “We live in a dictatorship.”
5. Neoleftie viper 5

   7 December 2012 at 11:56 pm

   Well I knew a girl called Clare once.
   A kind nice shy type was she…once
   She said to me open government is the way.
   A new way a better way a good way.
   Where the people could vote on laws directly.
   But alas time passed like bad wine out your arse.
   Now poor Clare tired and blue ….not red more pink and anti green…
   Thinks no more.
6. Jenny Kirk 6

   8 December 2012 at 8:10 am

   There’s a good article by Geoff Cumming in today’s Herald (8 Dec 2012) “Copyright Clampdown”
   about the possibility the TPPA will inhibit our use of the internet, and make access to music, books, films much more difficult. Worth reading.
   • karol 6.1

     8 December 2012 at 8:12 am

     Thanks, Jenny.  I’ll see if it’s relevant to my latest post.

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