<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: PHARMAC on the altar of free trade</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/</link>
	<description>The New Zealand labour movement used to have its own newspaper. A group of us thought that now might be a good time for it to be digitally reborn: The Standard v2.0 - now in a new format The Standard v3.0</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:58:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172746</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172746</guid>
		<description>Those costs are predominantly not there for Big Pharma, either -- they&#039;re predominantly borne or subsidised by government via publicly-funded universities, often working in partnership with the pharmaceutical companies, and while those companies are correct in saying that &quot;drug X cost y billions of dollars to develop&#039;, what they don&#039;t say is that &lt;i&gt;they didn&#039;t pay all that money&lt;/i&gt;. 

Essentially, my point is that pharmaceutical companies aren&#039;t R&amp;D organisations -- they&#039;re not set up for it. They leave the heavy scientific lifting to research departments at universities, and focus their efforts on the last mile to market: fine-tuning, characterisation for patent development, trials, commercialisation and &lt;i&gt;marketing&lt;/i&gt;. 

Suggest you read &lt;i&gt;Information Feudalism&lt;/i&gt;, Drahos &amp; Braithwaite, for a more thorough examination of hos this sort of thing works.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those costs are predominantly not there for Big Pharma, either &#8212; they&#8217;re predominantly borne or subsidised by government via publicly-funded universities, often working in partnership with the pharmaceutical companies, and while those companies are correct in saying that &#8220;drug X cost y billions of dollars to develop&#8217;, what they don&#8217;t say is that <i>they didn&#8217;t pay all that money</i>. </p>
<p>Essentially, my point is that pharmaceutical companies aren&#8217;t R&amp;D organisations &#8212; they&#8217;re not set up for it. They leave the heavy scientific lifting to research departments at universities, and focus their efforts on the last mile to market: fine-tuning, characterisation for patent development, trials, commercialisation and <i>marketing</i>. </p>
<p>Suggest you read <i>Information Feudalism</i>, Drahos &amp; Braithwaite, for a more thorough examination of hos this sort of thing works.</p>
<p>L</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172744</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172744</guid>
		<description>Lew

Discovery R&amp;D and registration trials run into the billions for originator pharmaceuticals this is a fact. These costs are not there for generic manufacturers.

Yes they spend shite loads on marketing no doubt to make as much money as possible prior to patents expiring.

I&#039;m not sure what point your trying to make that profits are high for multinational pharma - I&#039;m sure they are, but they&#039;re a completely different beast from a generic pharmaceutical supplier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lew</p>
<p>Discovery R&amp;D and registration trials run into the billions for originator pharmaceuticals this is a fact. These costs are not there for generic manufacturers.</p>
<p>Yes they spend shite loads on marketing no doubt to make as much money as possible prior to patents expiring.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what point your trying to make that profits are high for multinational pharma &#8211; I&#8217;m sure they are, but they&#8217;re a completely different beast from a generic pharmaceutical supplier.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172739</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172739</guid>
		<description>gitmo, so crying &quot;no R&amp;D costs, no fair&quot; isn&#039;t anything like the silver bullet you think it is. 

Add to which, the bulk of initial discovery and R&amp;D costs are borne by publicly-funded universities, while even the costs of testing, certification and commercialisation of pharmaceuticals are heavily subsidised throughout the world. 

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gitmo, so crying &#8220;no R&amp;D costs, no fair&#8221; isn&#8217;t anything like the silver bullet you think it is. </p>
<p>Add to which, the bulk of initial discovery and R&amp;D costs are borne by publicly-funded universities, while even the costs of testing, certification and commercialisation of pharmaceuticals are heavily subsidised throughout the world. </p>
<p>L</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kruk</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172734</link>
		<dc:creator>Kruk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172734</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t that the case for anyone who competes to provide any service provided by the public health system, though? A private hospital who provides surgery, for instance, would have to charge several thouand dollars either from the patient or his/her insurance company, whereas the public system is subsidised by taxes and doesn&#039;t charge the patient anything when they he/she has the surgery. The benefits of having it done privately are that you can have it done straight away and have a choice of doctors/hospitals that you might not have in the public sector. It seems there are enough people who value those benefits for private health insurance and private hospitals to offer an alternative to the public system for surgery. If the same was true for pharmaceuticals, wouldn&#039;t you expect the market to fill that need?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that the case for anyone who competes to provide any service provided by the public health system, though? A private hospital who provides surgery, for instance, would have to charge several thouand dollars either from the patient or his/her insurance company, whereas the public system is subsidised by taxes and doesn&#8217;t charge the patient anything when they he/she has the surgery. The benefits of having it done privately are that you can have it done straight away and have a choice of doctors/hospitals that you might not have in the public sector. It seems there are enough people who value those benefits for private health insurance and private hospitals to offer an alternative to the public system for surgery. If the same was true for pharmaceuticals, wouldn&#8217;t you expect the market to fill that need?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172726</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172726</guid>
		<description>Hi Lindsay

Large companies will invest where ever they can make a buck over the short but preferably medium to longer term.

The reality is the big pharma companies would never have put back even 20% of the profits they were taking offshore..... the other problem is that many were the architects of their own demise, regardless we&#039;d be mad to be paying the prices that some of these medications are going for in the states in even across the Tasman when we can get them at a small fraction of the cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lindsay</p>
<p>Large companies will invest where ever they can make a buck over the short but preferably medium to longer term.</p>
<p>The reality is the big pharma companies would never have put back even 20% of the profits they were taking offshore&#8230;.. the other problem is that many were the architects of their own demise, regardless we&#8217;d be mad to be paying the prices that some of these medications are going for in the states in even across the Tasman when we can get them at a small fraction of the cost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172724</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172724</guid>
		<description>Gitmo, I&#039;ll take your word for it. I worked there and heard differently. No doubt there were competing lines.  Whatever happened I believe the government of the day put the short term interests of NZ before the long term. Large companies do not invest where they are not welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gitmo, I&#8217;ll take your word for it. I worked there and heard differently. No doubt there were competing lines.  Whatever happened I believe the government of the day put the short term interests of NZ before the long term. Large companies do not invest where they are not welcome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172723</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172723</guid>
		<description>OK.Let me re-phrase that. They had no choice if they wanted to either continue to viably operate or expand sales in the market. All of the other options involve competing with heavy subsidies or state intervention in the free market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK.Let me re-phrase that. They had no choice if they wanted to either continue to viably operate or expand sales in the market. All of the other options involve competing with heavy subsidies or state intervention in the free market.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quoth the Raven</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172721</link>
		<dc:creator>Quoth the Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172721</guid>
		<description>This may tinker with your head a little &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mutualist.org/id10.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AUSTRIAN AND MARXIST THEORIES OF MONOPOLY-CAPITAL&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may tinker with your head a little <a href="http://www.mutualist.org/id10.html" rel="nofollow">AUSTRIAN AND MARXIST THEORIES OF MONOPOLY-CAPITAL</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: snoozer</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172715</link>
		<dc:creator>snoozer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172715</guid>
		<description>lindsay. unregulated capitalism tends towards monopoly. It&#039;s only anti-trust/anti-competitive laws that stop monopolies happening all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lindsay. unregulated capitalism tends towards monopoly. It&#8217;s only anti-trust/anti-competitive laws that stop monopolies happening all the time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172710</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172710</guid>
		<description>And in relation to PHARMACs monopsony position - people can still pay for the originator medicine , however the vast majority choose not to, PHARMAC operates not too differently from the massive HMOs in the states who when generics become available change everyong across to cheaper meds</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And in relation to PHARMACs monopsony position &#8211; people can still pay for the originator medicine , however the vast majority choose not to, PHARMAC operates not too differently from the massive HMOs in the states who when generics become available change everyong across to cheaper meds</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172708</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172708</guid>
		<description>&quot;Gitmo, I said Pharmac played a part  not that it was the whole cause of Glaxo&#039;s departure. Pharmac was not a convenient excuse. The hostile political environment made a significant difference.&quot;

Strange that the MD at Glaxo at the time told me it was brilliant timing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Gitmo, I said Pharmac played a part  not that it was the whole cause of Glaxo&#8217;s departure. Pharmac was not a convenient excuse. The hostile political environment made a significant difference.&#8221;</p>
<p>Strange that the MD at Glaxo at the time told me it was brilliant timing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172707</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172707</guid>
		<description>Agreed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gitmo</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172706</link>
		<dc:creator>gitmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172706</guid>
		<description>Yes ..... so ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8230;.. so ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kruk</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172704</link>
		<dc:creator>Kruk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172704</guid>
		<description>&quot;No. Monopoly purchasers are not part of a free market. The sellers had no choice but to bend to the dictates of the sole purchaser, Pharmac. That is not capitalism.&quot;

Actually, they have several other choices. They can choose not to operate in that market. They can persuade the public to to pay the premium for a partially funded or non funded brand (which they do in ads that tell people to ask for a particular product by brand name). They can convince doctors to prescribe by brand name and refuse pharmacists permission to substitute (the Medicines Regulations specifically forbid changing the brand of a medicine without the doctor&#039;s permission.) They can also grow the market by convincing new buyers (such as health insurance companies) to get into covering non-Schedule drugs. As I recall, ING was running ads a while back promising just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No. Monopoly purchasers are not part of a free market. The sellers had no choice but to bend to the dictates of the sole purchaser, Pharmac. That is not capitalism.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, they have several other choices. They can choose not to operate in that market. They can persuade the public to to pay the premium for a partially funded or non funded brand (which they do in ads that tell people to ask for a particular product by brand name). They can convince doctors to prescribe by brand name and refuse pharmacists permission to substitute (the Medicines Regulations specifically forbid changing the brand of a medicine without the doctor&#8217;s permission.) They can also grow the market by convincing new buyers (such as health insurance companies) to get into covering non-Schedule drugs. As I recall, ING was running ads a while back promising just that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lew</title>
		<link>http://thestandard.org.nz/pharmac-on-the-altar-of-free-trade/comment-page-1/#comment-172701</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=25476#comment-172701</guid>
		<description>Largest single cost in the life-cycle of a typical pharmaceutical: R&amp;D? nope. Testing and trials? nope. Certification and licensing? nope. 

Marketing.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Largest single cost in the life-cycle of a typical pharmaceutical: R&amp;D? nope. Testing and trials? nope. Certification and licensing? nope. </p>
<p>Marketing.</p>
<p>L</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

